Let’s Speculate: Supernatural 9×18 – “Meta Fiction”
Warning: If you have not seen tonight’s episode, “Meta Fiction,” then beware spoilers ahead!
Episode Summary:
So I’m going to just briefly summarize the episode and then provide some thoughts below – whether you agree or not, I had a rather confused reaction to the episode and want to share that reaction with all of you.
The episode opens in a library and with the “Supernatural” books. It shows the fourth wall breaking with Metatron talking to the camera about the truth of stories – who is the carrier of meaning? The writer or the viewer? Of course, this sets up the question of is this real or a story within a story, but we move next to the bunker and a wet Dean. That’s all you need to know. Wet Dean. We find Castiel hunting down information in partnership with the brothers and he finds a flock of angels dead with one of them alive, minus an eye. We find out that Metatron is tricking angels to gather and then sending his henchman, Gadreel, into eradicate them.
The episode centers on the capture of Castiel and Gadreel. Metatron creates a fantasy with Gabriel as its focus – he appears from an adult film, convinces Castiel to go with him, etc. Of course it’s a mirage and we see Metatron back in his library with Castiel bound and gagged. In the other narrative arc, we have Sam and Dean capturing Gadreel. Sam’s reaction is understandable but Dean sends him off while he works over Gadreel. Sam is trying to track down Castiel while Dean tries to get information from Gadreel. Meanwhile Metatron is meditating on the world as story over the natural world and he wants to write a story with himself as the hero and Castiel as the villain. Eventually, Metatron contacts Sam and offers a trade: Castiel for Gadreel.
The brothers prepare to trick Metatron, but he of course has read the book, so he foils their plans. He completes the trade, because he is an entity of his word, and after a brief and awkward exchange, Castiel finds out about Dean’s Mark of Cain and asks Sam to watch after him while the angel goes back to his human motel room and takes down the Winchester wall of hunting to replace it with the angel symbol that calls his flock to him as a 1970s easy listening song plays in the background.
Thoughts (and these are deep, fast, and wandering thoughts so please bear with me or ignore me and jump to the comments):
As many of you probably know, I am a fan of Thompson’s writing and as a critic I tend to like when texts/stories reflect on themselves as such. This episode did that but there were a few themes and tropes in tonight’s episode that I think are both provocative and dangerous. The beginning of the episode was very clearly a teaching moment – the show is using Metatron to instruct its viewers on how to watch the show – think of it as a reading rule. And visually the episode continued that lesson through the use of capture and through the use of mirroring. It was a well done episode in far too many ways and a disquieting episode in even more ways.
While an interesting narrative move, it’s also a dangerous game to play with viewers, especially in a show with a long and complex story but also a history of interaction with the viewer. There is a strange form of intimacy between this show and its fans – stranger than most I would speculate; and to a degree, it’s a heritage of intimacy that these contemporary writers were given. So the conversation between show and fan, between show and viewer, will be prone to reaction, in my opinion. For example, during and immediately after the episode I saw many tweets that read this episode as insulting to long-time fans, as if the episode’s instruction, which was clearly “you, reader, have the power of canon, not the writer,” disquieted some viewers. That directive did not make me uncomfortable since it’s what I’ve always believed about stories and storytelling. But at the same time there was a sense that the episode and Metatron’s instructions were telling the viewer to either let go of the gospels (which is already a problem in analogy and was during Kripke’s run) or to accept the new gospels. The episode had a strikingly subtle and almost violent subnarrative – the religiosity of story telling v. that of meaning making. In other words, the place of the writer versus the place of the reader. It broke the fourth wall just to acknowledge that we must always see the fourth wall.
It was brilliant and disturbing. The episode was irreverently grotesque and knew it.
But there is a line the episode skirted against which I’m going to challenge here andthat was the parodying of continuity, as if continuity is simply another piece of “canon” which is up for grabs, up for interpretation. This is a claim I will resist. Canon is mostly content – in other words when the ships sail and the waves crash against them, i.e. wincest, destiel, sastiel, crean (insert wink here), those debates are content debates and yes, up for interpretation. You want to read a ship in your story, go ahead. However, basic storyworld rules are not as susceptible to this “interpretive” turn. As a writer, yes, you have the ability to change the rules of your game, to manipulate your plot and characters, and I, as the reader, have the power to stay or go. I can continue my viewership or walk away. I understand that, but I’m going to argue back at you, Robbie, and say that continuity errors are not simply canon choices. They are many times, errors, and even if you incorporate the accident as an evolutionary advantage – we all know growth is another form of mutation, that deformation can be progress – we must also recognize that sometimes errors are disastrous, that sometimes mutations are fatal, and that while we can say everything is canon, the flipside of that statement is this: nothing is canon and such a statement puts both you, writer, and me, reader, on the cusp of the abyss. So you and I are looking down and over the metaphorical Grand Canyon. Is this where you wanted us to be?
I adore you still, Robbie, but you best have Brad Pitt circa 20 years ago hidden somewhere in the trunk before we make this leap.
Okay, so I said my peace for now, but expect my ramblings on tumblr at some point.
But always remember: WET DEAN.
Share your thoughts with us!
I agree, this episode was deep and complicated and I think I need to watch it several more times before I try to actually decide what it’s saying. You make some good points regarding the commentary this episode makes about itself, the show, and the viewers, but to me it seems very important that Metatron is the one making all of this commentary. Do we really trust him–and does the show want us to trust him–as a reliable narrator, as a ‘good’ storyteller? He’s certainly setting himself up as a storyteller, as The Storyteller, and he certainly has definite ideas about what stories should look like, about what is important and what is not. It seemed to me that the attitude toward continuity, in particular, that you pointed out was Metatron’s (expressed through his Gabriel illusion). And I wonder how far we, as viewers, are supposed to take Metatron’s word, even in meta form, as gospel? That’s what he would want, anyway, which is maybe why I’m hesitant to see it that way. Just some thoughts!
You can only imagine my glee when I heard Ogden, UT. That is my neck of the woods! It’s where I grew up and where I work. It was kinda fun to see that map of the Wasatch Front on the wall in Castiel’s hotel room and see my little town of Clinton where I currently reside. We really do have big, beautiful mountains like was shown in this episode (2002 Olympics – all of the downhill skiing snowboarding half pipe took place at Snow Basin, right up Ogden canyon)and the scene outside the motel could have been up one of our canyons. I’ve always kind of hoped they would choose to play out a story in Utah, but I never expected it to be Ogden. That was quite fun. As for the episode, I will admit I am not a really big fan of the whole angel story line and I am ready for it to end. I truly hope this season ends with the door slammed shut on that one. Having said that this was a very interesting turn of events. I just hope that Castiel writes his own story with an ending different than the one Metatron envisions.
I definitely need to watch again (wet Dean) but my initial take was that Metatron was speaking to Castiel. I thought he was trying to impress upon Cas how important he was and that Cas needed to play his part. I loved that the Winchester’s surprised him with grabbing Gadreel. Metatron is making the mistake that all of the protagonists make, they always underestimate the Winchester’s. I would have liked to see more interaction with Dean and Cas after finding out about the MOC. Hopefully future eps will bring the guys together again. Yep definitely need to watch again.
I saw some great directing and editing tonight, which has me excited for the finale (same director, I believe). I had to watch again because I was too busy texting and squealing with glee at both wet Dean and Gabriel’s return to hear the first half of the episode. For the time being I’m choosing to see the opening as another trick and taking it that Metatron was simply talking to Cas. Metatron is trying to write his own story, but I think we all know how that works out when the Winchesters are involved.
I loved the moment on the phone when Cas and Dean missed each other. The MoC has not fully taken hold of Dean yet, but I’d have liked to see a little more of interaction at the end when Cas found out about it. It felt like someone discovering track marks. Jensen played it a little defensive, embarrassed and defiant.
Interesting “play your role” parallel for Cas. Seems like everyone is walking in someone else’s shoes this season.
I enjoyed this episode. I was so excited to see Gabriel, even if he was just an illusion.
I too believed Metatron was talking to Cas.
I’m starting to believe that Metatron had Kevin killed because he had somehow was able to manipulate the Prophets abilities.
The way they had him at the desk, he reminded me of Chuck in Swan Song, also from what he was typing it looked like he was predicting events.
Not a fan of Robbie and not a fan of being told that they can write whatever they want and can just change canon when it’s obvious the problem is that they don’t . The canon. In a genre I with world building there has to be internal consistency to the world that is built. So sorry but reaper angels that have sex are an issue. And the fact that Charlie wouldn’t last five minutes as a hunter in Dean’s world is also an issue. Yes they can take the show and twist it to fit their vision and lack of strong writing skills but it won’t exist if the fans don’t watch it.
I realized last year what they would do with Metatron and stories. I still don’t like it. Turning the writers’ sour grapes into an ongoing plot point has rendered the potentially exciting angel plotline boring and stagnant.
I did like the subtle dean/moc subtext.
Not a fan of Robbie and not a fan of being told that they can write whatever they want and can just change canon when it’s obvious the problem is that they don’t knowThe canon. In a genre show with world building there has to be internal consistency to the world that is built. So sorry but reaper angels that have sex are an issue. And the fact that Charlie wouldn’t last five minutes as a hunter in Dean’s world is also an issue. Yes they can take the show and twist it to fit their vision and lack of strong writing skills but it won’t exist if the fans don’t watch it.
I realized last year what they would do with Metatron and stories. I still don’t like it. Turning the writers’ sour grapes into an ongoing plot point has rendered the potentially exciting angel plotline boring and stagnant.
I did like the subtle dean/moc subtext.
I agree with Cheryl that it was cas that metatron was telling his story to and that he wanted him to play his role…and used Gabriel/trickster to convince him of such…kind of reminded me of changing channels. i’m not exactly sure what metatron is truly up to, but I do know he’s going to fail. I’ve posted before in s8 my theory that metatron saved sam by putting the dog in front of him and sent benny to dean. I always felt he’d read the Winchester books long ago and they had been part of a plan. when I saw the books in his office, it kind of confimed my belief in that. I don’t know what his end goal is, what kind of story he wants to tell, but he did make a comment that stories do change. I thought that important.
what I am positive of is that I was tickled to death to see Gabriel /trickster again, dead or alive. I had no idea he would be on and it was a special treat for me. also gadreel is definitely more than he’s letting on. I think metatron is underestimating gadreel and gad is actually against metatron. I felt that way when he was lying to dean, baiting him, trying to get dean to kill him? why? it’s as though gad wanted out. out of metatron’s grasp…or perhaps gad wanted in? to heaven maybe? or the veil? at the end when he was asking metatron all those questions, he had a look on his face… like he was up to something…I think gad is pro Winchester and I think he’ll be the key to helping the angels.
after last nite and cas’s concern for dean….I have no doubt that sam will take care of his brother and we will have an awesome season finale.:D
I thought it was a really interesting episode. Robbie Thompson is such a clever writer, I will have to rewatch this one a few more times before I get all the nuances. I agree with Cheryl and Nappi, I thought Metatron was addressing Castiel mostly, but then again the guy does see himself as the new God and likes to narrate the story. Megalomaniacs do have a tendency to do that! 😀 Also, I was so stoked to see Gabriel, I may have let out a little scream of excitement, and even though he was Metatron’s creation, he still had that smartass mouth of his. What a delight. It just made me realize how much I miss him. Did I see a little moment of panic in Gadreel’s eyes when Dean told him he would just leave him tied to the chair for the rest of eternity? Probably felt like he was back in Heaven jail, but then of course the MoC started itching, I really thought Dean was going to kill the guy. And thank God he didn’t, cause then Metatron would have kept Castiel!
A special thanks goes out to Robbie Thompson for giving us an opening shot of Dean taking a shower! That’ll keep us all going until next week…and beyond. :p
Clever, provocative, and well written. Looks like Castiel is going to play his role, at least for now. I guess one of the side effects of the Mark of Cain is spending a lot of time looking at yourself in the mirror 🙂 Metatron is a great bad guy; a well written and well developed character, as opposed to Abaddon who, at least up to now, has been rather one dimensional And, like many before him, Metatron underestimates the Winchesters; his arrogance will be his ultimate downfall.
Like you, I was a little disturbed by the disdain shown for fans who bring up some glaring continuity inconsistencies. This requires a deft touch by the writer, and I’m not sure if this was accomplished. Overall, I liked it but this is one of those episodes I’ll need to watch a few times before reaching a final opinion.
Very insightful article, Bookdal. Canon is not continuity. Continuity is consistency in a story, a plot, the characters, or the places a story operates in. For instance, continuity may be when one of the brothers get beat up, the effects of that beating should be shown in the next scene – bruises, a cut lip, etc. Canon, to me, is the internal rules within which a story is told and viewed. It’s a contract between the viewer and the writer and, if those internal rules are not reliable, it causes confusion on the part of the viewer.
For the writers, if they just change the canon, they lose track of the story and characterization. I would go so far as to say that they lose track of the story structure, too. Plots are introduced and forgotten, characters do not act as the viewer expects them to (Sam not looking for Dean in S8), plot rhythm does not flow, and sub-text cannot be trusted.
Viewers come to expect certain things from the characters they are invested in and their stories, and those expectations are created between the writer and the viewer within the canon established over the course of time. When viewers decide to invest in a series, they are encountering a fictive story and focus on, as they should, the story and the characters. Who are these people? What are they doing? What terrible things are going to happen? As viewers watch, these things are revealed, canon develops, and the viewer develops certain expectations and reflective reactions to the characters and the story. If the viewer likes it, they stick around.
Internal rules are absolutely necessary to keep viewers on-board with the story and the characters, and to giving the viewers a feeling of satisfaction as their expectations are met. If the internal rules change, there had better be a good explanation, a believable explanation, for the change. This is not to say that canon cannot evolve. That is not what I am talking about. Evolving is very much different than writers doing whatever they want to do to tell or change a show.
I don’t think I have explained this very well, but I have a strong negative reaction to trashed canon, and it is because I am left feeling I cannot trust the story, trust the characters, and that sub-text means nothing.
I’m going to throw this in here. The debate over who ultimately gives a text meaning, the writer or the reader (viewer in our case) has been a long running one in literature studies. There are numerous fields of critical thought which give priority over one or the other, some which go all the way over to one side or the other. (Yes, I was an English major, but it was twenty years ago, so please don’t ask me for further info on this!) The reader-side has inspired literature movements like texts that deconstruct themselves over the course of a narrative. I think this is what Thompson was playing with by having Metatron try to create a story for Castiel and by extension, the viewers.
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, myself–I don’t think it was meant to be insulting at all, just a dig here and there that we ought to be able to laugh at as fans. The ending thrilled me, as did that little interaction at the beginning between Cas and Dean as well as what happened between Dean and Gadreel. Jensen did a wonderful job as always in the scene following that, when Sam finds him almost in a daze having stopped short of killing the angel. And it was an absolute joy to see Gabriel again, even if he was purposefully written a little “off”, especially since his role in this is very similar to how he was used in the show in the past, as a capricious giver of lessons.
Overall, I agree with njspnfan–it was clever, well-constructed, and put a lot of pieces on the board for the season’s endgame. I’m excited to see what’s next!
Loved this episode! I wasn’t offended by the beginning at all either … found it intriguing but that’s my reaction. Metatron is slowly getting more and more interesting while at the same time scarier and scarier. He can blow out Holy Fire and create a whole world (a la Changing Channels in S5) so real Cas doesn’t realize it fake until he sees his sewn up inside pocket. Bummer it was a fake world because it was so awesome to have Gabriel back, only to realize it was all fake! I have a feeling that Cas is going along with his plan because I doubt that Metatron just would have let him go otherwise and Cas knows that and what better way to find a way to take someone down than by gaining their trust.
Also, loved the interaction between Dean and Cas over the phone and when Sam and Dean realized he was getting their Star Wars reference! I’m glad he’ll get references but hope he’ll continue to not quite understand how they work in the current situation because I’d hate to completely lose that bit of Cas. I do see an almost reversal of the end of Season 6 with Dean and Cas though as now Dean’s the one who did something rash, is listening to Crowley and acted so guilty when Cas found out about the MoC. At least Dean has both Sam and Cas worried about him so maybe he won’t make the big mistake (don’t know what it is but I’m sure it’s coming). Wish they’d gotten a bit more into it … Cas was around when Cain took on the mark in the first place and while he may not have been there actually I’m sure he knows more firsthand knowledge of it that any book in the bunker. But, I’m sure it will come up more in the future when the MoC is the main story.
I absolutely LOVED the episode.
It actually made me like Metatron more than I did at the start and it is clear what you see later that he was talking to Cass. I am growing also more fond of Gadreel and hope in some way they won’t kill him. Love the actor too. And Gadreel also knew quite well what to say to the brothers to push their buttons. I also love that he was driving a black old car and the whole dark look of him. So sue me. 😀
Loved that Gabriel was back even if it was like that and the Gab/Cass hug was priceless. Cass is getting better with it. More hugs all around! And Sam must be really worried by now about Dean. And he is still “jealous” little bit about Crowley. He snapped totally at Dean about Crowley saying the closing of heaven can’t be reversed and it can be a lie because it’s Crowley.
I would have also liked Cass talk more about the MoC to the brothers. I almost jumped on my screen because he didn’t tell anything more. *sigh* But I put it to the part “Metatron was already writing what Cass needed to do” So he didn’t. I think he is “controlled” really now as we saw Metatron write what Cass was doing. Also the whole episode made me feel uneasy for all three of the Team free will. I just got a feeling…
It is not good what ever is happening to Dean. Cass expression made it clear. He would have totally wasted Gadreel if he had HAD the blade.
Cass is sort of exploding from the stolen grace and is “the villain” in Metatron’s story. Doesn’t seem good does it? And the rumor is Misha has not still been contacted about season 10…
Sam’s part… I think anyone close to Dean start to be in danger at this point.
So in speculation these “prayers” came to my mind.
For Dean: Save him from hurting the ones he loves. Don’t make him loose his soul/turn to demon/Knight of hell/mind controlled/King of hell.
For Sam: Make him make the right choice and not get killed by his brother or killed in general.
For Castiel: Make him survive his ordeal and not die. (Big please)
For Gabriel: Cheers, be a good sport and be really alive.
For Gadreel: Give him redemption and not kill him keeping him in the series.
Sorry, the veil covering that last episode is just is too much atm. for me and the speculation where everything will go. Gnawing my pencil here.
– Lilah
I thought that this episode was BRILLIANT! Clever, witty, and as you say Bookdal, skirting that fine line between commentary and critique. I loved it. I agree with several others (Cheryl, nappi, Sylvie etc) that think that the entire opening was delivered to a captured Castiel rather than to “us” the viewing audience, but I really wouldn’t have minded even if it was to us. This whole episode has set my head reeling about Metatron. I have really liked his character since his introduction in season 8, but now I adore him; he was so well drawn in this episode, giving us a solid look into how he thinks of himself and his desire to have the ultimate story of his own, one crafted by himself with the ending he desires and the power to make it happen. Curtis Armstrong is such a good actor that when he was sincere in season 8, I believed him and now that he’s the BIG BAD in season 9, I believe him again, and feel that his character has the significant gravitas needed to carry off a truly threatening BIG BAD. Compare Metatron to season 6’s Mother of All and you’ll see what I mean. And this most recent episode really calls into question quite a bit about Metatron that we haven’t seen before. The dude is packing some serious fire power. I suspect he’s always had that, but playing the role of the inept and weak bumbler has served him well thus far and kept his true nature under wraps. People are always commenting on how the Winchesters are underestimated by all the BIG BADS (except Crowley) and perhaps Metatron has underestimated them as well. But I think the Winchesters have in turn underestimated Metatron which is why he seems so unstoppable at the moment. Now that his power play has been activated, he’s showing us that he is no one to mess around with. He can create entire realities just like Gabriel did; he can blow out Holy Fire (we’ve never seen anyone do that, it even held Gabriel prisoner in Changing Channels), he can unbind at will the angel binding cuffs (strong enough to hold Gadreel) with just a flick of the wrist, he’s adept at spells and incantations that no one even knows exist. Very interesting. Perhaps he’s another arc angel? And he knows the tablets, so he’ll always be one step ahead of the Winchesters in that way. Sam said it: “How do we stop this guy?” Good question. This episode also had a nice balance between the main arcs as well. Although this was not really a MoC episode, we were reminded several times of the way that it continues to plague Dean and we can also see Sam’s growing concern. And this is the first time that I have felt really invested in the angel story line in ages. I am excited to see where it goes and wonder if it will manage to connect to the Abbadon story in some way.
I literally screamed at my television when I saw Gabriel again. It was awesome to see him in whatever capacity; it really was too bad that he didn’t get to interact with Sam and Dean at all. I loved how his character was played out in his scene though. It was all slightly awkward and stilted, and just as I was about to say “what’s going on? Why is this so weird?” we find out that it’s all a contraction and fabrication specifically for Castiel’s benefit. Metatron really is a clever one; who better to lead a false scenario than Gabriel the master of false scenarios? And that commentary on canon.. I can see why that might have irked some people. Like Ginger noted above, I am also no lover of sloppily handled canon and chafe at poor continuity, and there have been several instances of ‘changes’ (read mistakes) that have really rankled. That being said, I found it hysterical that in the midst of a diatribe about canon and continuity that Castiel clued in to the fact that he was being snowed because of a mistake in continuity. I wonder if the writers were not so much saying “get over it” as they were saying “we get it…and we’re sorry.”
There were a few nagging irritations about the episode that bothered me some, but these have more to do with my own desires than anything going on in the episode, so I can’t really fault Mr. Thompson for my griping. I was disappointed in how little we got between Gadreel and Sam. I really hope that we aren’t done with that story line, because what we got here wasn’t much at all. I was a tad miffed that Sam was sent off as errand boy rather then allowing he and Gadreel to get down to any real meat about their connection to one another. Gadreel has indicated several times that he “knows” Sam because he’s been inside him. Well…. does that hold true for Sam as well? Does he “know” Gadreel in any way that could prove useful to their fight against Metatron? And Dean is still getting all of his information about Sam and how he feels from everyone else BUT Sam. Now it’s Gadreel telling Dean that Sam doesn’t really love him, and since Gadreel should know, Dean believes him. I also find it ironic (and irritating, if I am going to be honest) that Dean is so gung-ho to extract revenge against Gadreel on Sam’s behalf. Can’t he see the hypocrisy in that? The irony?
Another thing that bugged me… Cas’s truncated remarks about the MoC. Clearly he was concerned and voiced those concerns to Sam. But geez; I am sure Cas knows AAAALLLL about the Mark of Cain, I mean he’s an angel after all and the MoC was a BIIIIG deal back in the day. I’ll bet he knows all about how awful it is and what damage it can do, and all he could manage to say was “Dean, what did you do?” (Shades of Bobby from season 2). I realize that the PTB are not ready to have more information about the MoC revealed at this time, but I found that scene awkward, and not entirely believable that Cas would not address the whole situation more than he did.
Sorry for the marathon post. I really loved this episode and feel the need to watch it again. It was complex and exciting, though provoking and maybe just a little barbed. I love that this show is willing to take risks like this so far into it’s run. And Robbie Thompson writes like he’s been with the show since the beginning, which I appreciate immensely.
I loved this! And I loved the throwbacks! And I think I broke my friend’s ear drums shrieking:
The Road so Far – Me: “Oh wow awesome way to edit Dean’s descent to darkness!” Mark*: “Yeah that’s cool.”
Metatron – Me: “WHAT THE-?! NO, don’t break the fourth wall like that! You are not a damn reality show!” Mark: “HA! Just wait.”
Supernatual/Metatron – Collective: “HA! NICE!”
Dean – Me: “Look at him!” *crestfallen* Mark: *eye roll* something like “Every girl everywhere is drooling right now.” Me: *sniffle*
[i]… Am I the only girl in the audience who has to watch it again to enjoy Dean’s shower scene?! I was too freaked about by his sheer look of despair that his hotness was lost on me….[/i]
Credit roll: “ERIC KRIPKE?! Hell yea-” Mark: “-They always include his name-” Me: “-YEAH as ‘created by’ REWIND THAT!…WHOA! ‘Executive consultant’ COOL!”
CASA EROTICA – Mark: “Aww yeeeah!”
GABRIEL – Me: “YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!” Mark: “…!…” Me: “Hellloooooo! Trickster!”
Clearly we had too much fun watching this on his big screen HDTV! 😀
I love the even-more-obvious-now-than-ever throwback of Dean interrogating Gadreel to Dean interrogating Alistair and Dean’s expression when he halted the blade almost as if he made the connection himself and doesn’t want to head back down that road, but he is. Shutting Sam out. Pushing everything back. It’s going to come raging out again and this time–there’s no knowing what will happen because he’s heading INTO hell instead of having come FROM it. Also, I liked how Metatron was actually talking to Cas in the beginning, Cas angry with Dean over hiding the mark and Gadreel’s subtle expression that he was NOT pleased at Metatron’s ambivalent answer as to whether his own capture by the Winchesters was planned.
However, all was not perfect. I did hate that, like Bobby in last season’s “Taxi Driver,” Gabriel was only back momentarily. It was great to see Richard regardless though! 🙂
E you know Metatron was introduced in S7 as an arch angel. Just because he said he was a nobody from the secretarial pool doesn’t mean it’s true.
e, I don’t think that dean believed what gad was saying. I think gad has insight into dean as well as sam. I think there was a connection between the two when he enabled dean to see sam talking with death. gad was lying to dean and I think dean realized it because gad was very quick to demand dean kill him. dean said to him, so that’s what this is all about..you want me to kill you…that’s when dean stopped. i really got the impression from dean that he knew gad was simply trying to bait him. 😉
Loved this episode: writing acting and story. Clever, provocative and fun. I like being pushed and challenged. Amazing.
[quote]E you know Metatron was introduced in S7 as an arch angel. Just because he said he was a nobody from the secretarial pool doesn’t mean it’s true.[/quote]
Hi Cheryl…I had forgotten about that. I would have to say that he’s not a nobody at all! And as an arch angel who sat at God’s side dictating His word, well, God only knows what else this guy can do. :p He really suckered everyone in with his “aw gee, I’m nobody important” routine. Me included!
[quote]e, I don’t think that dean believed what gad was saying. I think gad has insight into dean as well as sam. I think there was a connection between the two when he enabled dean to see sam talking with death. gad was lying to dean and I think dean realized it because gad was very quick to demand dean kill him. dean said to him, so that’s what this is all about..you want me to kill you…that’s when dean stopped. i really got the impression from dean that he knew gad was simply trying to bait him. [/quote]
Hi Nappi… yes, I think Dean did understand that Gadreel was trying to bait him but I never felt that Dean acknowledged that he felt that Gadreel was lying to him about Sam’s supposed feelings. As a matter of fact, I thought that Dean acknowledged that it was all the truth as far as he knew and that is why it made him so upset…. he just wasn’t going to let it goad him into giving Gadreel what he wanted which was for Dean to kill him. I think that Dean feels everything Gadreel said to him about Sam’s feelings towards him is the 100% truth…. and it’s moments like these, where Dean is manipulated by others into thinking the absolute worst of his brother when he refuses to talk to SAM about things, that get me rilled up. He could and should talk to Sam about this, but no… he just lets other people, people with ulterior motives tell him how his brother feels about him and accepts it as truth. It undermines their relationship, which is I assume the point, but it puts all the blame on Sam, which is unfair IMO.
Sorry for the late replies…is anyone else having trouble getting the comment section to load onto their computers or is it just me? I can see the comments in the “Latest Comment” thread but then they won’t load and I can’t add anything. I finally got it to work this morning, but it took constant tries and page reload’s to get it to work.
Hi E,
I feel bad for Dean, I really do, but I agree. This stuff has been happening since season 1 and it’s why the boys are in the situation they’re in now. Way back in “Asylum” when Sam was possessed by the evil doctor and said all those things, and later did they talk about it? Sam tried, but Dean just brushed it off and shoved it down. They seriously never learn, do they?
And I read comments like, “it’s so great that Sam is finally showing that he cares about Dean” and I have to grind my teeth not to write a scathing reply that isn’t allowed. Seriously, I sometimes can’t fathom that we’re all watching the same show. I’m not actually sure what these people WANT Sam to do to show that he cares about Dean, but maybe literally grovel on the floor? I’m at a loss. Sam has said he’s sorry a thousand times, he’s thanked Dean over and over for taking him back after Ruby, for getting his soul back, for coming back for him when they were kids, what else is he supposed to do?
And here’s a final thought. If Sam had to choose between Dean making some foolish sacrifice to save his life that might get himself or others caught in the crossfire, or Dean saying to him “You’re a good brother, I trust you and I’m proud of you”, and really meaning it , which do you think he’d choose?
Hi E- I don’t think it’s that Dean is so gullible that he believes what others tell him without question. I do think that when Dean looks in the mirror (which he did) he believes that he is not worthy of Sam’s love. That has always been the problem in my opinion. If you don’t love yourself it is very hard to believe others do.
As Cheryl said the site is having a lot of quirky issues. Alice is aware of them and is working on trying to fix the issues. Comments don’t load sometimes. WFB won’t update the new information unless you clear the cookies/cache daily on some browsers. Sometimes you can log-in, other times not. It might take a little time.:)
i think this is a similar situation to S8, where everyone was questioning Sam’s decision to not look for Dean. Dean’s snide, off handed comments all season, Bobby questioning Sam as to why he didn’t look for him, telling him he “went off the rails”. Turns out Sam felt this was his greatest sin/failing, letting his brother down over and over again, and that obviously played a big factor in the season finale.
This season, a lot of characters are reenforcing Dean’s fears/concerns, of being left alone with no family, and that, if push came to shove, Sam wouldn’t save him. Not saying Dean is correct, it just looks like that’s the direction the writers are going in. Not saying they’ll be doing another Sacrifice episode with the roles reversed, but this looks like it will weight heavily on any decisions Dean makes.
E it’s not just you the site seems to be having issues. I think that Dean knew that Gadreel was manipulating him but since it plays into his own sense of self worth he believes that he is the one who is lacking. Crowley made a point of telling Dean a few times this season how people in Dean’s general vicinity tend to end up dead. Add that to all of the guilt Dean is carrying it’s easy to see how he believes not only what Gad is telling him but that he deserves it. Sam is going to have a lot of work to do to convince Dean not to jump off the cliff here.
sylvie37 I think the problem is the way the show is told. Because it is told from Dean’s POV what most people react to is the way Dean reacts to whatever Sam is saying (or not saying) and doing. If viewers would make the effort to watch Jared’s performance it is clear how he feels. Unfortunately Sam doesn’t get to say very much and when he does it usually pisses Dean off and as a result some viewers. Watching SPN is a complex experience. In order to get everything that is happening you really do have to pay attention. Some episodes (if not all) require multiple viewings.
I know Cheryl. It makes me crazy sometimes how little of Sam’s POV there is. Jared is wonderful at saying so much without words, but I wish they would actually give him some dialogue WITH DEAN more than once a season that is important to both of them. I mean, we waited until Sacrifice to hear how Sam really felt about everything last season and now they’ve only managed to piss everyone off this season. My only hope is that they’ve got something big planned for the last episodes for BOTH of them.
[quote] If viewers would make the effort to watch Jared’s performance it is clear how he feels.[/quote]
Hi Cheryl,
It’s funny that you say this. If you read Jared’s twitter (he tweeted during the episode) he and Robbie Thompson revealed that during the scene where Cas finds out about Dean and the MoC and asks Sam to Watch out for him and Sam was supposed to say “I’m worried about him.” But, for some unfathomable reason that I can’t even begin to speculate about, the line got cut. So here we have another instance of Sam’s lines being cut down making how he feels ambiguous and hard to understand. Why? Why would TPTB do this? Why does Sam always have to be such a mystery? What damage to the plot could it possibly cost for Sam to tell us…the audience, that he’s worried. Jared absolutely sold that moment with his expression and his eyes, but why should he have to? Would it have killed anyone for him to actually say the words? Those four little, puny and oh so important words? Dean wouldn’t have even heard as he had fled to the car to escape Cas’s potential third degree. Geez!! This show!
I think that Castiel’s comment is supposed to be ambiguous, the ‘Watch out for him, Sam’ comment. *ETA: actually he says ‘you keep an eye on him’ which is really closer to a warning than just a sign of worry* He says it with little inflection and he obviously knows what the mark is – he could sense it even though he couldn’t see it. He could be saying ‘look after Dean, he needs help’ or ‘watch out, you know how this story (of Cain and Abel) goes’ (could be both). Castiel tends to say everything as if it has the same importance, he may not have realized that Sam wouldn’t (mightn’t) get his meaning.
If it IS supposed to be ambiguous (and honestly at this stage who knows what the writers intend – I think that is the point of this episode TBH) then it is important that Sam doesn’t say ‘I’m worried about him’ because then Castiel might realize that Sam has misunderstood him and explain further.
That is assuming that anything in this episode is meant to be taken as fact and if anything is we understand which bits are meant to be which. I have to admit that my feeling was that I now understand why the writers of the French Mistake felt it was so important to have Sam knock on the walls of Bobby’s house to prove that they are ‘real’ at the end of the episode, if we are expected to suspend disbelief it would be nice to give the viewers a strong anchor to suspend from … RT didn’t do that, possibly because the show wants to offload the pain of being too attached to continuity.
“Well it could be sort of, experimental?”
I did read the tweets. The only reason I can think of is that they wanted the rift between the boys to continue a little longer. But I agree with you Dean wouldn’t have heard Sam say anything. Why would we see Sam show visibly his concern and not verbally doesn’t make much sense. Those of us who understood Sam’s look of concern (not counting how many times he has saved Dean’s life) know that Sam cares for and loves his brother. It would have been nice for those who have misunderstood Sam all season to have heard the words.
i think this is a similar situation to S8, where everyone was questioning Sam’s decision to not look for Dean. Dean’s snide, off handed comments all season, Bobby questioning Sam as to why he didn’t look for him, telling him he “went off the rails”. Turns out Sam felt this was his greatest sin/failing, letting his brother down over and over again, and that obviously played a big factor in the season finale.
This season, a lot of characters are reenforcing Dean’s fears/concerns, of being left alone with no family, and that, if push came to shove, Sam wouldn’t save him. Not saying Dean is correct, it just looks like that’s the direction the writers are going in. Not saying they’ll be doing another Sacrifice episode with the roles reversed, but this looks like it will weigh heavily on the decisions Dean makes.
[quote]njspnfan
In reply to: E
i think this is a similar situation to S8, where everyone was questioning Sam’s decision to not look for Dean. Dean’s snide, off handed comments all season, Bobby questioning Sam as to why he didn’t look for him, telling him he “went off the rails”. Turns out Sam felt this was his greatest sin/failing, letting his brother down over and over again, and that obviously played a big factor in the season finale.
This season, a lot of characters are reenforcing Dean’s fears/concerns, of being left alone with no family, and that, if push came to shove, Sam wouldn’t save him. Not saying Dean is correct, it just looks like that’s the direction the writers are going in. Not saying they’ll be doing another Sacrifice episode with the roles reversed, but this looks like it will weight heavily on any decisions Dean makes.
[/quote]
That’s a good point njspnfan; maybe season 9’s issues with Dean are similar to Season 8’s issues with Sam. I just get peeved over how they choose to frame those issues. In Season 8, Sam was lambasted on all sides for not looking for Dean; by Dean, by Bobby even by Meg. Sam was seen to be the awful brother who made a terrible mistake and was above all WRONG for what he did and what he didn’t do. There was absolutely nobody on Sam’s side to help with balance and fairness; we still have absolutely no idea really why Sam decided to not look for Dean because he’s never been allowed to speak of it to tell us his side of things. We know he’s sorry and we know it was eating away at him until the point of self sacrifice, but we still don’t know WHY.
Now we have Dean suffering the same type of attck on his psyche and sense of self worth as Sam suffered in season 8. But who’s pointing that out to Dean? Gadreel, Metatron, Abbadon, Crowley… while Cas and Sam wait in the wings and worry over him offer him suport (which he refuses) and are waiting and willing to help and sympathise with him. We’ve had chapter and verse on why Dean did what he did, framed in a way in which he couldn’t possibly be seen as wrong with oodles and oodles of insight and point of view. And becuase it’s so clear and becuse we understand his motivations, we sympathise. And becuase of all that Dean is seen as the innocent victime of a brother who does not love him and those evil characters who manipulate him for their personal gain. The entire set up of Dean’s conflict is so incredibly sympathetic to him, not even reflecting on all of the awful things he did to set it all in motion or apologizing for how it turned out, while everyone was against Sam last season and all chomping at the bit to show him how wrong he was. So, Dean gets to be a sympathetic victim who’s been wronged at every turn, and Sam gets to be the one who’s wrong and doesn’t love his brother like he should. When Sam is wrong it’s Sam’s fault, when Dean is wrong, it’s Sam’s fault.
I can’t believe 9 years into this show, they come up with something so fresh & brilliant. My take is that Metatron/the writers was/were talking to us THROUGH Castiel in the beginning. When he mentioned continuity & retcon it wasn’t so much an apology as an admission that they happen. I don’t see it as teaching us a lesson as much as acknowledging it in the hopes that we can move past it. Is the story over because of mistakes or should it keep going? Sometimes it may be incorporated into the story & sometimes you just move on.
I am truly sorrow that some fans are deeply bothered by cannon issues. I would never have noticed most of them if they hadn’t been pointed out to me. Even being aware of them it doesn’t change my enjoyment of the show at all. I love X-Files and enjoyed Lost up to its ridiculous ending. Is Supernatural being held up to impossible standards? These writers are human & fallible and I’m not willing to let minor issues (since I’m not emotionally vested in reapers) disrupt one moment of my viewing pleasure. This isn’t meant as a scolding to those who are bothered, I just hope it doesn’t get in the way of your overall enjoyment.