Let’s Discuss: Sam and Dean in Supernatural Season 10 – Compelling or Controversial?
Warning: This article contains spoilers that came out of recent interviews from San Diego Comic-Con.
As Supernatural Season 9 fades farther into the distance of our minds, Season 10 is coming ever closer, and with it, new storylines for the brothers (and Crowley and Castiel, of course). I’m one of the fans who was critical of Season 9, especially in regard to the prolonged conflict between Sam and Dean. But based on information coming out of Comic-Con, this season could be good for our Winchesters. The brothers’ storylines in Season 10 have the potential to be dramatic, emotional and compelling. But given the nature of some of the boys’ actions we’ll supposedly see, these stories also run the risk of being controversial to viewers.
In this essay, I’ll examine each of the plot points that we know (so far) concern Sam and Dean. My analysis will be threefold – exploring first, how these events can be potentially compelling to fans; second, what can possibly make them controversial; and third, the key questions that when answered, will decide whether or not these stories were pulled off successfully.
There’s A New (Demon) Dean in Town: Over the course of nine seasons, Sam Winchester has had many faces: He’s been possessed by the demon Meg, and by Lucifer himself; He’s been soulless; He’s had a psychotic break; He’s even been possessed by an angel outcast looking for redemption. In all of that time, Dean has remained – well, Dean. Occasionally we’ve seen somewhat different versions of Dean, like in “Dream a Little Dream of Me,” “The End,” and “Slash Fiction” but those stints, while note-worthy, were very brief.
What’s Compelling: This is the first time Jensen will be playing something “other” for any extended period of time. It’ll be exciting to watch what he does with his role as a demon. The small glimpses we’ve had over the years of a dark Dean have made clear how great Jensen would be portraying that kind of character. Now we get to see it play out on screen. It’s something the show has never done before, and that’s refreshing.
Though we don’t know everything about Demon Dean yet, we do know he’ll be a womanizing hedonist hell-bent on keeping the party going. Even worse, it seems he won’t have a problem with murdering human beings. And based on the short (Comic-Con) clip we saw, he won’t have any warm, fuzzy feelings regarding Sam, either. The tension between the Winchesters in that scene was ominous – and thrilling to watch. In fact, the concept of Sam and Dean facing off because one is no longer himself (like Sam in “Born Under a Bad Sign” as Meg or in “The End” as Lucifer) is much more engaging than when the brothers are just arguing because they won’t hear one another. This is the kind of conflict that can actually be fun to see.
What May be Controversial: Some fans might not want to see Dean as a demon, because it means Dean has become the very thing he has fought against for so many years. And in reality, it may be difficult to see a beloved character in this state. There’s something very sad about a guy succumbing to the one thing he never wanted to be. Moreover, it’s risky to take nine years of character convictions and turn them inside out so that character actually is the thing he normally stood against in the narrative. However, many protagonists (including those in Supernatural) have feared the lure of evil, and some have even temporarily surrendered to it. But let’s face it, it’s one thing for Dean to be possessed by a demon and do terrible things, but it’s another thing entirely for Dean’s soul to be so twisted that he is the demon.
Key Questions as Deciding Factors (When Answered):
– How long will Dean stay a demon? Fans may tire of his wreaking havoc if it goes on too long.
– How bad will Dean be as a demon? Constant partying and womanizing is easier to justify than say – murder. The circumstances surrounding Demon Dean’s evil deeds (killing rampages are easier to take if the victims are bad people) will dictate how fans react.
– Will Dean have any control over himself as a demon? Even though Dean made a bad choice in taking on the Mark of Cain (MOC), he didn’t choose to become a demon – not directly anyway. Fans may want to see the real Dean trying to exert some control over his demon self.
– What will Dean’s reaction be once he’s cured? Dean will need to be deeply troubled by his time as a demon (just like he was about torturing souls in Hell) to allow fans to make the transition back to empathizing with him. Of course nobody wants Dean swimming in endless self-hatred all season either. A balance will have to be found.
Sam will Finally Get to Save his Brother: As we all probably know, Sam was supposed to save Dean from the fate of Hell and go dark in the process in Season 3, but that storyline was scrapped. Now in Season 10, Sam will at long last be the one to rescue Dean’s twisted soul.
What’s Compelling: After Sam failed to look for Dean in Season 8, it will be satisfying to see Sam driven to save his brother, doing whatever it takes to get him back. Jared has mentioned in interviews that he feels fans like (and he does as well) the loyal, determined Sam better than the Sam who is trying to distance himself from his brother and the hunting life. Maybe watching Sam this focused on saving Dean will help some fans let go of the disappointment they felt during the past two seasons when Sam didn’t always appear so invested in his brother.
Also, it will be a nice change of pace to see Sam want to protect Dean, since we’ve had so many years of Dean trying to keep his younger brother safe. This role reversal can help Sam be seen as the strong, capable hunter that he is (and the first two episodes will supposedly showcase this kind of Sam), because he has been vulnerable for so many seasons while various things happened to him.
In addition, it sounds like Sam will also have his own storyline this season, as he will do some questionable things in order to recover Dean. There’s potential here for lots of tension as we get clues about what it is that Sam had to do to achieve his objectives.
What May Be Controversial: Some fans might be concerned that whatever dark road Sam has to go down may cast him in a bad light. In fact, one of the main questions that will be asked regarding the brothers’ actions at the start of the season will be “who is the real monster?” Jeremy Carver has even made reference to this playing into fan expectations of what they’re willing to see Sam do. If what Sam does to save Dean can rival what Dean does as a demon, then that doesn’t bode well for Sam. Fans may end up feeling that Sam went too far. This can lead to more Sam vs Dean battles online – as if there aren’t enough of those already.
Key Questions as Deciding Factors:
– Will Sam have forethought regarding the consequences of his actions? If Sam did some things without knowing how bad they would turn out, it will be easier to take than if he knowingly did something immoral.
– Who or what is affected by Sam’s actions, and to what extent? Fan reaction will vary in intensity depending on whether Sam did something to himself, helped monsters, or hurt humans.
– How will Dean react to what Sam had to do (once Dean is cured)? It will be more controversial if Dean berates Sam for his actions rather than if he understands Sam did what might have been necessary.
The Brotherly Love is Likely to Make a Comeback: After the first half of Season 8 and the drawn-out conflict of most of Season 9, many fans talked of feeling jaded with the brothers fighting. From all reports, however, it looks like the boys will finally be trying to heal their complicated relationship.
What’s Compelling: This may mean a whole season without a huge brother fight! That alone is very exciting. Over the years, the brotherly relationship has hit some rough spots, sometimes appearing non-existent, so to hear we’ll be getting it back is something to look forward to. Jeremy Carver himself seems very pleased that the boys will forge a stronger bond, and he was very deliberate in declaring their continued work on their relationship will be a big component of Season 10.
With the return of a strong brotherly bond, it’s likely we’ll also see more heart infused in the show. Though we still get episodes that seem to be callbacks to the glory days of Supernatural, the show has also sometimes lacked that heart in its later years. To have the brothers’ bond at the center of the narrative again will give the show a warmth that makes it even more enjoyable to watch.
It also sounds like both Winchesters will be looking out for one another equally. It won’t just be Dean protecting his little brother or even Sam trying to save Dean the whole year. This season, it seems the boys will each be concerned about the other’s welfare. In theory, this should make most of the fans happy.
What May Be Controversial: At first thought, it appears there wouldn’t be any negative aspects to the brothers healing their relationship. However, some fans may feel this renewed closeness could lead to more co-dependence in the relationship. Or some might think that it just glosses over the brothers’ many issues. It is possible that nothing gets resolved, and the boys just decide to move forward, only to be drawn into more conflict with one another down the line (aka, season).
Key Questions as Deciding Factors:
– Will the boys talk about their relationship? The fans need to see Sam and Dean actually discussing things to believe they’re getting to a better place.
– Will there be a new (honest) dynamic between the brothers? Sam and Dean can’t move forward if they continue to deceive one another. If viewers are to buy into a new bond, the brothers have to learn to trust one another.
– What effect will outside (supernatural) forces have on Sam and Dean? They can’t repair their relationship, only to have something around the corner tear them apart again.
Heroes Lean Toward Antiheroes: Though Sam and Dean often operate outside the law, and both have done some morally questionable things, their character traits still define them as heroes. But this year, ethics and morals will play a major role leading up to the Winchesters’ actions before, during, and after Dean’s turn as a demon.
What’s Compelling: This plot point can be very interesting if it makes the brothers ask themselves some tough questions. Watching morally conflicted characters maneuver in an unfair universe can make for fascinating TV. Just ask fans of Breaking Bad or Mad Men. Seeing Sam trying to come to grips with having done bad things in order to achieve a good outcome, or watching Dean doing his best to resist the lure of darkness due to the MOC can add depth and nuance to our beloved characters.
What May be Controversial: Some fans might not want to watch their favorite characters struggle so hard with their own sense of morality. Though Sam and Dean have often questioned their individual – and more often one another’s – actions, they aren’t Walter White and Don Draper. Fans count on the brothers consistently trying to do the right thing, even if it ends up going very badly for them. It can challenge an audience’s ability to root for the characters if those characters start to consistently justify their bad choices.
Key Questions as Deciding Factors:
– How torn will Sam and Dean be by their actions? Though we don’t want incessant guilt from the brothers, we want them to have remorse for anything corrupt they may have done (once Dean is cured).
– Will the brothers be able to right their wrongs in any capacity? Though they won’t be able to bring back anyone they killed (well, theoretically they could, it is Supernatural!), they can still find a way to make amends for the pain they may have caused.
– Will the brothers still care about doing the right thing? Even if Sam and Dean make some bad choices, the audience needs to see the brothers still determined to do the right thing and fight the good fight.
The Mark of Cain Continues to Tempt Dean: We all know Dean will be cured of being a demon, it’s just a matter of when it happens. But we also know from interviews that even though Dean will no longer be a demon, the effects of the MOC will continue to hang over his head.
What’s Compelling: Having the demon story neatly tied up would do a disservice to it. Over the years, too many things in Supernatural have been tied up in an anticlimactic way (Sam’s hallucinations, for example). Having the MOC still present once Dean is cured will give the story more layers and make it even more personal. It will be interesting to watch exactly how Dean is still influenced by the MOC (just as it was for Sam and the demon blood), and what he does to resist. Jeremy Carver even hints the MOC influence will be so significant as to play a part in the entire season and beyond.
What May be Controversial: The Mark of Cain storyline was enjoyed by most of the fans, so it seems unlikely anything about it would be controversial. It’s possible some fans will want Dean to just be Dean again after he’s cured as a demon, rather than still being susceptible to the evil of the MOC. On the flip side, some may feel that the MOC influence on Dean will not receive enough attention, much like Sam’s mental deterioration didn’t in Season 7.
Key Questions as Deciding Factors:
– How often will we see the effects of the MOC? For the story to be truly exciting, the MOC needs to be addressed sufficiently, not just ignored or pushed off until the end of the season.
– Will Dean continue to be without some of his humanity because of the MOC? It’s ok if he’s tempted by the darkness of the MOC, but once cured, Dean should be the Dean we knew before.
– Will Sam and Dean actively seek a solution to the MOC issue? Our boys should be proactive in terms of trying to extricate Dean from the susceptibility of the MOC.
Conclusion: Though this essay focused only on the brothers, these plot points will be influenced by the other major players (Castiel and Crowley, and the new character of Cole as well, but we just don’t know much about what they will be doing yet). Obviously, the success or failure of these storylines will rest on how intelligently and creatively they’re written. This article was just meant to explore potential fan assessments (both good and bad) of each one. However, based on what we know so far, this season has the distinct possibility of being a deeply personal, character-driven journey for the Winchester brothers that fans can largely enjoy. What do you think of the arguments I’ve presented and the plots that have been teased? Let’s Discuss!
for this fan girl….compelling….can’t wait….thanks for the read. 😉
I’m looking forward to season 10! I love what I’ve heard, and while I normally dodge spoilers, things coming out of sanctioned interviews are titillating rather than irritating to me, especially since I know *how* the plot and character points play out will matter far more than their rough outlines.
I’m very curious about the lasting effects of the MoC on Dean. What we learned so far was that it drove him to kill and made killing supremely pleasurable, and that if he denied it what it wanted, it would kill him. So once he’s no longer a demon and immune to death, what will he have to do to stay alive, sane, and a hero? Inquiring minds want to know!
I’m reminded of a situation from my 30-year D&D history, when my primary character, a lawful neutral bard, was required by her god to take on an artifact that changed her alignment to neutral evil. For years, I had to play her as still being true to herself as well as to her new alignment, while keeping the evil enough in check that she could still function in a party predominantly comprised of goods. That was one hell of a challenge, but it turned into multiple years of fascinating gaming. I hope the writers, Jensen, and Jared have as much fun exploring Dean and Sam’s new dynamic as my friends and I did with my bard and her companions!
Excellent breakdown. I am going to post a link on my LJ.
I know one of my biggest fears is that won’t make Dean redeemable. If they make him too evil, then I’ll have a hard time accepting him as a hero. At the same time, he needs to be convincing as a demon.
I also don’t know how the writers will tackle the MOC. We saw in Season 9, how the MOC slowly was changing Dean even before he touched the Blade. His emotions were shutting down. He was more aggressive. He wasn’t quite the Dean we know and love. Once he held the First Blade, all of those differences accelerated. I’m not sure I can handle that Dean for a year or more.
On the other hand, there are fantastic possibilities here. We know the MOC urges Dean to kill, and it’s an enjoyable act under this influence. If he doesn’t, he dies. Well, if he dies, then he becomes a demon. So there is the potential of having this horrific loop Dean could be stuck in, making any “death” of his catastrophic and injected an urgency we haven’t had in some time. How does Dean prevent himself from being a mindless murder yet avoid death or else he’ll become a demon? So much could happen with that.
I’m really excited for the potential for Sam and Dean facing hard truths and the consequences of the acts they have done. I’m excited to see a bit of a role reversal. Mostly, I hope that we see the brothers in character and being caring brothers again. But I’ve also been very disappointed with the characterization and writing in part of S8 and most of S9. I don’t want to hope too much to be disappointed. But man. This season has the potential of being amazing.
I could of done without another bout of Sam and dark paths and dubious things esp as what was done in season 9 to him was never really dealt with outside of Dean. I want to believe in the dynamics of the brothers relationship again that it is a redeemable one for me but I am not confident. Season 9 will haunt season 10 for me so the writers will have to really shine for both brothers next season.
I expect S10 to be compelling, controversial, full of brother angst (and love), funny and sad, parts of the season will drive me crazy, parts will have me on the edge of my seat and I will love every minute of it. Can’t wait….
I think Cheryl answered this perfectly so I will just quote her:
“I expect S10 to be compelling, controversial, full of brother angst (and love), funny and sad, parts of the season will drive me crazy, parts will have me on the edge of my seat and I will love every minute of it. Can’t wait.”
What I have seen is that at least the episode titles are already pretty confusing. You really can’t make out what they will hold. Except the obvious 5th one. 😀
– Lilah
Ditto!
Yep I think it is going to be all of that! It will be a tightrope walk for the writers to portray a truly demony Dean without having him do horrific unforgivable things. A drinking womanizer is just not that far off the regular Dean mark. I am looking forward to ANY healing and the working on of the brothers relationship. I am one of the fatigued ones! Very tired of serious brother conflicts. I am very excited for this coming season. Very. As for fan conflict, they just can’t please all of the people all of the time! Someone is going to be unhappy. Thanks for this Metamorphic Rocks. I think you did an excellent job of presenting what will be compelling and what may be controversial!:)
I have some concerns, particularly about how Demon Dean will be portrayed. In the previews, they’ve been playing up the hedonstic and bad-karaoke aspects and downplaying the evil. Since this is Dean’s soul that was twisted in to a demon by the MoC, and Dean did become a torturer in hell, he already has a pretty dark spot on his soul and I’ll be very disappointed if they play down the evil too much. Season 10 is the season something is wrong with Dean instead of Sam, so go for it. I did see the S10 preview from SDCC, that was cut together from multiple scenes so context will matter, as it will for what Dean does while he’s a demon.
As far as Sam goes, everyone assumes that Sam saves Dean and, while that is the most likely outcome, it’s not a foregone conclusion. Keep in mind that even if Sam “cures a demon” to save Dean, Dean was stabbed in the heart so the only thing keeping him moving and talking is being a demon. He could end up doing something like partially curing him while they looked for a way to rid him of the MoC; we saw what a partial cure did to Crowley. This could be a Catch 22 – if Sam cures him, Dean dies and if Dean dies the Mark of Cain won’t let go and turns him back in to a demon. As far as Sam’s questionable choices, as with Demon Dean, context is going to matter a lot.
And whatever happens, PLEASE don’t turn this in to a season long angstathon, or a repeat of Season 4’s Impala Roadside Confessions, where Dean pulls over every other episode and spills his deepest/darkest secrets to Sam while Sam sits in the background all dewy eyed while drinking a beer. That worked the first time they did that but they went to the well too often on that. They’ll both need to deal with the consequences of what they’ve done, and it shouldn’t be sugar coated. But let’s get back to basics please. Two BROTHERS, saving people, hunting things, the family business.
That being said, I’m curious to see how this plays out so let’s get on with Season 10!
Quoting njspnfan : “As far as Sam goes, everyone assumes that Sam saves Dean and, while that is the most likely outcome, it’s not a foregone conclusion. Keep in mind that even if Sam “cures a demon” to save Dean, Dean was stabbed in the heart so the only thing keeping him moving and talking is being a demon. He could end up doing something like partially curing him while they looked for a way to rid him of the MoC; we saw what a partial cure did to Crowley. This could be a Catch 22 – if Sam cures him, Dean dies and if Dean dies the Mark of Cain won’t let go and turns him back in to a demon. As far as Sam’s questionable choices, as with Demon Dean, context is going to matter a lot.”
That is very interesting. A Catch 22 scenario. I have a feeling they are going to go an easier route but I kind of like this idea. A partial cure. Like Crowley. I too hope they just don’t make Dean a mega party animal. That would be disappointing. I’ll bet there has been much writers room discussion over this. “How far can we go?” etc.
Leah – I agree, they’ll probably go an easier route – don’t want to turn S10 into a season long Groundhog Day 😀 But, it does get to the core question about how they rid Dean of the MoC – me thinks this will be percolating most of the season, not the Demon Dean thing but the MoC.
I really don’t see that being an issue….first off
can’t cas fix him?
or even so, they might make dean just be healed. he isn’t a demon by possession….so I can see self healing in the transformation process. I don’t mean to be a bubble burster, but I really don’t forsee anything wrong with him physically.
Cas has to get fixed first before he can heal anyone. But since DD isn’t possessed the cure should work on the demon part but I don’t know what they are going to do about the MOC part. But yes his body is too damaged now unless the MOC somehow heals him. I guess we’ll see when Dean has to kill Cain what happens.
Yeah Cas is weakened, but there are angels all over the place, many of whom are probably mighty grateful for Dean’s sacrifice. If the Dean problem comes down to him needing to be healed physically, I don’t see that as much of an issue, there are many angels around who can do it besides Cas. I do agree with njspnfan though about really wanting them to “go there” with Dean. One of my main problems with the MoC story was that it took too long for the affects of the mark and the use of the blade to be really obvious. It was too vague and subtle to start with, not that different of the way Dean was after his father died, then it was too much, too harsh, too quickly; the pacing of it was off which affected my sympathies for Dean.
And I REALLY agree that I do not want an epic angstfest when Dean is restored. We have had far, far, FAR too much of that in recent years. Dean feels bad about everything, even things that aren’t his fault, and I find the endless rehashing of “How Bad Dean Winchester Feels” tedious. It has the opposite effect on me now, generating irritation rather than sympathy. It’s too bad really; if that trope hadn’t been so over used in the past six years it would be easier to tolerate now especially when Dean actually has something to legitimately feel bad about, but that well has run dry. I’d like to see something different for a change with Dean and how he deals with his emotions. I’m not sure what that is, but more trips to the self-pity store I don’t really want to see even though it would be completely understandable this time around.
I don’t know do you think that they will go with another angel healing? Since Sam was healed that way I would like to see something unexpected for Dean. The MOC has to play a part and Abel is supposed to make an appearance so maybe something there. I am hoping the “I’m proud of us” line from Dean means that he has forgiven himself like Sam is able to do. Maybe finally Dean will realize that he has done more good than bad and that beating himself up about it just makes things worse. So yes no more angst about spilt milk please.
And I agree with you the MOC storyline was such a great idea that took way to long to develop and was very rushed at the end. I can’t figure out why that would be, they certainly had plenty of episodes to work with. Hopefully the pacing next year is more satisfying.
Yeah, season 4’s pacing was so much better. I kept wondering with Dean why we weren’t’ seeing any real, tangible effects of the Mark. There was that questionable kill of the human dude and the pretty vicious kill of that vamp, but that kill was no worse than when Dean killed that Vamp with the saw blade in season 2, so his ruthlessness there wasn’t anything we haven’t seen before. Then boom, all of a sudden, Dean is off the hook. He kills Tessa, he’s trying to kill Gadreel, his dissing Cas and his brother… it was all just too sudden. I’d like the Demon Dean thing to go on for about 5-6 episodes and I hope that he is EVILE!! (and maybe a little funny). Then I’d like to see the problem of the Mark itself be a mitigating factor for much longer. I only want it this way because the brothers can’t work together while Dean is a demon, but they can while they work out the conundrum of the Mark. I’d like them to not be separated or at odds for too long.
I would like to see a little Angelus Dean. But it looks like by episode 5 anyway the guys are working together. So whatever they have to do is done by then as far as Dean being a demon. But I do agree that Dean just can’t be Dean x2. He has to be a Demon not just a devil may care roguish scamp. I does sound like the MOC is going to be a factor for a good part of the season. I just want for both guys to end up human and alive by the end of S10. Whatever road they have to travel.
Yeah, that’s what I meant by an easier route. I would love it to be more complicated than abracadabra ….HEALED! Either way I am eager to see how it unfolds.:)
Oh, you mean like Sam’s Hellucinations? Poof! All better now! Yeah, sorry, I had to go there. I hope that doesn’t happen either, but this show sometimes has a bad habit of writing themselves out of a tricky corner by taking the easy way out. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit to find that once Dean’s cured of being a demon that he’s also cured of his life threatening injuries and it won’t really be explained in any way that makes sense.
🙂 Yeah like that!
Castiel’s grace is diminishing; he struggled to heal Gadreel at the end of last season so he might not be strong enough to heal Dean, though I suspect he’ll try. As far as healing, I don’t recall demons being able to do that, except in crossroads deals but hey, you never know. Just trying to think out the possibilities here because these things never go as planned for Sam and Dean and there are always “complications”. I do think the MoC is going to play out for a while, though.
There are dozens of angels around who can heal Dean and owe him one for his sacrifice. I’ll bet Hannah would be willing to do it.
We’ll see, though I think the number of angels NOT in the Dean Winchester fan club is a lot bigger 🙂 I suspect some of Sam and Dean’s adventures between the time Dean becomes a demon and Sam finds him will be told in flashbacks as the season progresses – I’m sure they both do things that come back and bite them in the ass later in the season. Another thought, if Dean is cured of his demon-ness, but still has the MoC, he’ll have to be careful about killing even monsters and demons – otherwise he’ll start to go kill-crazy like he did last season.
I wonder… do you think Dean will be affected when he just kills, or just when he kills with the blade? I wonder if he will have cravings for the blade and have to fight against that? If that’s the case Sam should be able to help him out with that. I hope that they let the brother’s dicuss what it’s like to have an addiction as they now have that in common.
I am also curious about the demon cure, which I am pretty sure will come into play at some point. Because he’s no longer doing the trial and saying the incantations, Sam is probably pretty safe in using the cure on Dean, in terms of not jeopardizing his own life (unless TPTB are deliberately planning to complicate matter, which would be fine by me!). But back when they introduced the cure in season 8 they never did show or say what happened to the demon soul after it was cured. Does it go to heaven? Stay in the body and co-habitate with the host (not a great solution IMO) Does the vessel remember everything?. Just what exactly does it mean to be cured? That part of it was never explained. I wonder what that will mean for Dean? He’s his own demon, so to speak, so will his soul be cured and his body healed? I mean, technically he’s like ruby in that he’s a corrupted soul inhabiting a vessel that’s dead; the vessel just happens to be his own body. Will he go to heaven? hell? or what?
Dean was getting a little kill happy post-MoC, before using the blade, but kicked in to hyper-drive after killing Cuthbert Sinclair. I like your take on the addiction – Sam has first hand experience and can definitely help Dean out with this. And you’re right, they never really said what happened to the possessed person’s soul when the demon is cured; I think Dean even brought that very point up when they were investigating this. But, in Dean’s case that’s not a problem since it’s his soul that was twisted in to a demon. Sam’s situation is interesting, if he cures Dean, are the trials complete and is he okay if he doesn’t say “kah nuh ahm dahr”, or was he reset to factory defaults when cured by Gadreel and Castiel? Lots of ways to go with this – only one month to go!
I agree njspnfan. Dean was kinda itching for kills even before the blade. It seemed to intensify greatly when in his hands. I think the MOC is the source and the blade is the fuel. I also agree with E that the demon cure thing was confusing and not well explained. I tried to wrap my head around it and got a headache so I just shoved it to the back where the cobwebs are for the time being. Lots of ways to go indeed! I hope it is compelling!:) We shall soon see.
When it comes to Dean it might be a little more straight forward as there is only one soul inhabiting his body, while the demon that the priest was trying to cure had two souls, the soul of the demon and the soul of the vessel. They never did explain how that was rectified after a demon was cured… who got the body, the recently cured demon or the original inhabitant? With Dean there’s only one soul to deal with. I guess the issue is what will happen to Dean’s actual body? Because it is dead isn’t it? Isn’t it rotting away as we speak? When his soul is cured is he automatically alive again…? And round and round we go… I hope that TPTB have thought about this and have figured out a way to make it make sense, cause it’s a conundrum. :p
I just assumed the original host of the demon possessed body eventually died. They usually take too much damage to survive without the host. Original Meg didn’t survive the fall, the people the demons were possessing when the soldiers took over all had mortal wounds. I’m assuming Crowley’s original host is long gone as well. Where their souls went I guess depends on whether they were good or not. That is why Dean is in trouble, his body took a mortal wound. Is there a time limit to angel healing? How long can your body be dead?
Except real-Meg’s soul wasn’t released. Her body was too damaged to survive, but her soul was still in there once demon-Meg was exorcised. Lord knows the pushed the idea that woman who was possessed by Lilith’s chef was still in there in Lucifer Rising. Similarly Jeremy from Repo Man was alive after being possessed, as was Lisa when she was possessed. Lisa was a short term possession, and we don’t know about Jeremy. Sam insisted Ruby not possess the secretary because she was still alive inside. Basically, I honestly don’t know when or if the souls of the demon possessed move on. Just as they have never talked about the souls of the people the angels possessed. The soul of Crowley’s meat suit may still be in there or it may not. Past canon suggests that the original occupant is still in there ‘asleep’. OTOH, when the demon was cured in the film strip absolutely no one discussed the fact that there might well be 2 souls in the same body, so who knows what has and has not changed.
I guess my point was that some were too damaged to survive like the people on the bus and some (if the possession hadn’t been to long and the body hadn’t been damaged too badly) survived. Meg was going to die as was Lisa their bodies just hadn’t died yet until the demon was gone from what I understood. At some point I figured that the body died and the original soul was released but the demon kept the vessel past it’s expiration date. Meg and Lisa were going to die whether the demon was there or not. Dean received a mortal wound but his soul has turned into a demon. So is the demon soul keeping Dean alive as was indicated with Meg and Lisa? So if the soul is cured does that mean Dean will then die? Or will the MOC keep Dean alive until they can figure out a way to get rid of it? I always thought that the demon could keep the body going indefinitely but once the demon was expelled the body would die if too damaged or like Jefferey be crippled. Lisa was healed by Castiel so it kind of does look like an angel healing is going to be a possible solution.
I think I just confused myself….
And we’ve seen many cases where the host is still alive despite the demon in them….. Sam is one of them! I am hoping that the show thinks about the hosts a little bit more… especially given what Sam went through in season2. I haven’t really liked the trend lately of the Winchesters just killing the hosts along with the demon; the host should always be a consideration to them, especially Sam who knows what they are going through.
As far as the time limit goes, Adam was revived by the angels over a year later. 😉
I think I got into an argument with myself. So the demons keep the host alive no matter how damaged the body is until the demon is expelled? Then Dean is going to have to hope the MOC is going to keep him alive until Cas gets his groove back!
Well to be fair, the show muddied the waters here. Up to season 8, the canon was that, with the exception of Ruby taking a dead body, that the original person was still in there and demons kept the body going until it was expelled. Then suddenly they came up with the idea that demons can be cured/healed. The second they floated that idea, fans started to ask what about the soul of the actual person the body belonged to. The writers never clarified or answered that. The film clip showed someone inside the body feeling overwhelming guilt, but was it the demon? or was it the person who got hit with all the things his body did while he was possessed. You aren’t so much arguing with yourself as the writers suddenly gave new canon with ZERO explanation for the contradictions involved in the change. Frankly, we don’t even know if the demon CAN keep the body healthy after it is cured, because we have never seen what happened after that film clip. Does a cured demon still retain its powers to keep the body going? Does it retain any of its powers? The situation is incredibly opaque.
In Clip Show Dean asked that question of the surviving priest. He got a shrug, because since that priest didn’t participate in any other attempts he had no clue. Maybe the writers will attempt to explain what happens this season since we are now faced with a conundrum of Winchester proportions.
Alive? Hmmmm… define “alive.” 😀 Was Ruby-II alive or was she, I don’t know, held in stasis by the presence of the demon soul inside her? She was pronounced dead and then Ruby took over. She didn’t decay like a normal dead body would, and even told Sam “its only me in this body,” And in Jus in Bello the FBI agent (Peter De Louise! LOVE him!) had actually been dead for a while when the demon left it. Dean even made sure that the cops knew he’d been dead a while because they were looking to pin the murder on the boys. So, who knows! It’s been a tad inconsistent. Givne that he’s a lead character, I suspect Dean will NOT decay while he’s a demon. :p
See that’s my problem…Dean died! Cain killed himself and was turned into a demon. They were not possessed by demons they are demons. What are the rules there? Lilith was the first corrupted human turned into a demon but she possessed many bodies. Cain and Dean are in their original currently dead bodies. What does that mean? Insert confused face….
Quoting E – “Because it is dead isn’t it? Isn’t it rotting away as we speak?” Eeek! I guess he has been reanimated. So in the way a demon keeps a meatsuit alive his demonness is keeping him alive and moving but I imagine he is a dead man walking when he gets “cured” if that’s what they do. ??? This one will be a little less complicated on the soul issue but more in the MOC and “dead” Dean issue I imagine.
Yeah… lets go with that! Ruby’s host was theoretically dead before Ruby took her over and she showed no signs of….um….’wear” while Ruby was in her and that was a whole season. I guess the same thing will also apply to Dean; he’ll be dead but being held in stasis (??) by his demonized soul… no decomp, no rigor… um, yeah… ick, poor Dean. :p:D
In fact, the one time she took over the maid’s body to get to Sam and Dean she basically told them hurry up here, coma girl’s starting to rot as we speak. And Dean couldn’t tell she wasn’t a real girl by the smell when she pretended to be Kristy. The impression Bobby gave us what that demons hold their bodies together as long as they inhabit them, but they don’t repair any injuries. Whether that is because they don’t care, because they can keep the bodies going without repairing them, or whether they can’t without a deal hasn’t been established.
In S8 Torn and Frayed, when Viggo was torturing Samandriel, trying to figure out what made angels “tick”, he said – [i]”When we demons possess a human, we invade all of them, their – uh – their muscles, their bones, their brains. I can’t help but wonder if it isn’t the same for angels.”[/i]
If ever we needed some green faces…….;)
Which is grosser… decaying Dean or Diet Dr. Pepper. 😮
LOL. You are a cruel woman E.:p
Actually Dean not being able to kill because of the MOC might be viable, he’ll still be able to hunt but Sam would have to make the kills.
agreed, though it certainly complicates things.
Well Said!
I’m very excited for the season to begin but I am a little tired of them not getting along all season. It’s time to fix some of that. I don’t mind the occasional conflict and I know their relationship is never going to be what it was before each of them landed in Hell, but the writers could at, least, sidle up close to that dynamic. That would be compelling.
I too am looking forward to the refreshing change of Sam seeking to save/protect Dean while at the same time exploring his own darkness. Yes, Sam has done dark things before — so has Dean, selling his soul and most notably becoming a torturer in hell, something he still does, but Sam has never gone dark to save his brother. Too bad Season 3 had the writers’ strike for that cut the whole, Sam saves Dean from hell, but it did open up a new avenue. As much as I don’t want Demon Dean to be too short, I do agree that a whole season or even a half season is likely too long. Judging from what spoilers there are out there, the demon aspect of Dean is dealt with fairly quickly, although the whole thing about being stabbed and dying from that injury does complicate matters. Still, I complained in the past about soulless Sam and angel possessed Sam going on for a half season which was entirely too long, so I know I don’t want to see Demon Dean dragged out unnecessarily. I mostly like what I hear coming from Carver and others which is that Sam and Dean seek a new balance (my words actually) and a better balance with healing between them, or at the very least a recognition that they have to get better at being who they are.
It’s a month away, so we’ll continue to speculate and hope and then it will all be revealed. Until then, this is the most stoked I’ve been for a new season…perhaps it’s all to do with Mark Sheppard being upped to a regular…;)
Sam going dark to save his brother was a sl that belonged at the end of season 3 . Too much has happened to Sam since then for me to want to see him dragged through darkness again it is going backwards with the character not forward.And it is just retreading season 4 and 5 and placing Sam in that same role and the reaction to Sam’s darkness and Dean’s is often treated very different regardless of the circumstance’s or the motivations behind those acts .
Agree with every thing you are saying Sharon.Too much has happened since season 3-4 to have sam go dark enough for us to doubt who is worst Demon dean or human Sam.It was well and good then but now…just no.
[quote] it will be a nice change of pace to see Sam want to protect Dean,[/quote]This assumes that Sam did not WANT to save Dean in the earlier seasons.[quote]so many years of Dean trying to keep his younger brother safe.[/quote]”trying” being the keyword same like Sam.[quote]How will Dean react to what Sam had to do (once Dean is cured)?[/quote]He WILL berate Sam.
While you say [quote]This can lead to more Sam vs Dean battles online – as if there aren’t enough of those already.
[/quote]I KNOW it will lead to more of Sam bashing with a side of dredging up all of Sam’s actions contrary to what he will be doing in s10 and used to say whatever Sam did earlier was wrong.We see this already happening in case of Sam’s words now its the turn of Sam’s actions.
Dean with superpowers could be a dream come true. I hope we get at least one episode where Super Dean slaughters monsters with his new found abilities. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don’t make him lose interest in stopping monsters now that he is one!
“Sam will Finally Get to Save his Brother:” Do we actually know that is going to happen? I have grave doubts.
More likely Sam will try and try, doing darker and darker things (that he’ll never be forgiven for) and ultimately fail.
Meanwhile, Dean (who Carver has shown doesn’t need Sam or anyone) will just fix himself, metaphorically pulling himself up by his own bootstraps- like he always does.
“Carver has even made reference to this playing into fan expectations of what they’re willing to see Sam do.” Oh yeah, can hardly wait to see what mud this genius will drag Sam through.
“It will be more controversial if Dean berates Sam for his actions” IF? LOL.
“Jeremy Carver himself seems very pleased that the boys will forge a stronger bond, and he was very deliberate in declaring their continued work on their relationship will be a big component of Season 10.”
Pffft! Suuuure. I don’t think Carver knows what the words “bond”, “continued work” or “relationship” mean.
“some might think that it just glosses over the brothers’ many issues.” No matter what, issue glossing is guaranteed.
“Will the boys talk about their relationship?” Ha ha ha, NO! Pigs will fly first.
“the brothers have to learn to trust one another.” I’d say they might both have to be trustworthy first. THEN maybe we could see if they can trust each other. Otherwise one of them is being played for a fool.
“It can challenge an audience’s ability to root for the characters if those characters start to consistently justify their bad choices.”
Now THIS I agree with. Truer words were never written.
Rick D……this….this is perfectoion:
“the brothers have to learn to trust one another.” I’d say they might both have to be trustworthy first. THEN maybe we could see if they can trust each other. Otherwise one of them is being played for a fool.
Yes, I would like to see the boys BOTH sam and Dean earn each others trust. No lies. N0 deception. No manipulation. No using shared history aganst the other….would be a Godzilla sized step. Also…act like the adults you are.
I have some problems with this. [quote]”the brothers have to learn to trust one another.” I’d say they might both have to be trustworthy first. THEN maybe we could see if they can trust each other. Otherwise one of them is being played for a fool. [/quote] The thing is, Sam has been pretty damn trustworthy since season four. In season five he did everything he could to make up for releasing Lucifer. He worked with Dean even though Dean treated him far worse for the entire season than Sam even came close to this season. He resisted returning to his addiction, except when Famine was influencing everyone and then he handcuffed himself in the bathroom and barricaded the door from the outside to help him resist. He jumped into The Cage to stop the damage from releasing Lucifer and to save the world. When he came back soulless he did let Dean down by not interrupting Dean’s life, but once he realized he was soulless, he agreed with Dean that he should get his soul back and played What Would Dean Do to act in a moral manner he didn’t feel. He only rebelled when he was told by 2 angels and a demon that getting his soul back would kill him. He fought through his Hell memories to come back to help Dean in the fight to keep Cas from opening Purgatory. He spent most of season 7 hallucinating 24/7 while at the same time fighting with Dean and having Dean’s back. When Dean went to Purgatory Sam honored the agreement to let Dean go that Dean, Sam and Bobby all agreed had been made. He hunted with Dean trying to close the Gates of Hell even when he stated clearly that what he really wanted was to not hunt any more. He chose in with Dean over out with Amelia. He took on the Trials after giving Dean a heartfelt speech about how Dean wasn’t a grunt, that Dean was a genius who deserved to live and be happy. He kept doing the trials even when they weakened him and he stopped when Dean asked. When he found out Dean hung a For Rent to the Nearest Available Angel sign on his body, he continued to work with Dean, to have Dean’s back. He told Dean he couldn’t trust him the way he should, but that they could still be partners and work together. He was civil to Dean but he didn’t cave.
Since season five Sam HASN’T use deception with Dean. He had the audacity to tell Dean that he held to the “no looking” agreement, when saying I looked and couldn’t find you would have made life so much easier. He told Dean about Amy, only to get her killed. He told Dean about Amelia, only to have Dean use her against him by pretending she was in danger. Maybe I’m looking through Rose (or Sam) colored glasses, but I see that Sam learned his lesson after Ruby and has been upfront and honest with Dean.
Then there’s this [quote]No using shared history against the other[/quote]. Sam hasn’t talked about Dean siding with John since season one. He hasn’t brought up the fact that Dean lied to him about John ordering a hit on him since he found out. He told Dean that Dean was selfish to sell his soul, Dean told him tough toenails, I get to be selfish and Sam never mentioned it again. After Sam found out Dean killed Amy Dean said he was acting like a little bitch and to just admit Dean was right, which Sam did and it never came up again. Sam HASN’T brought up shared history. He’s pretty much let things go. Dean is the one who keeps bringing up the past and bludgeoning Sam with it. It is all well and good to say they shouldn’t bring up shared history, but the practical effect is Dean never apologizes for the possession by Gadreel and Sam forgives him and never mentions it again. It means Dean gets away scot-free with his horrible treatment of Sam and the only thing Dean MAYBE gives in return is to stop hitting Sam over the head with all of Sam’s past failures. It’s not just that this isn’t fair, it’s inequitable, and it sends the message that Dean can do whatever he wants to Sam, Sam must forgive him, Dean doesn’t have to change any of his behavior, while Sam has to live up to Dean’s expectations.
Look I’m not saying Sam is perfect. He screwed up monumentally in season four. He didn’t give a clear explanation to Dean about exactly how and why he was so mad at Dean for tricking him into being possessed. He didn’t give Dean the emotional support Dean needed after Dean returned from Purgatory. He didn’t reassure Dean that he loved him after finding out about Gadreel. He didn’t do any obvious research on the MOC, although to be fair, Dean wasn’t showing negative effects until after he held the First Blade and Sam immediately went into talk Dean down mode. I’m just having real problems with the idea that the betrayals are mutual this time. Lord knows in season five everyone from Dean to fandom felt that Sam had no right to sympathy or empathy or even to be treated like anything other than a disappointment. So I’m not on the “Both Sides Do It” train.
oh, I fully agree with you Percy…i geuss i was trying to be magnanimous.
I agree with what you’ve said as well. To me Sam has matured and gone out of his way to fix his mistakes. Dean is the one who has to now do that if there is to be a partnership between them.
[quote][/quote]He told Dean about Amelia, only to have Dean kill her. [quote][/quote]
Where did I miss this?
My typo, He told Dean about Amelia only to have him use that as a way to take him away from a hunt. It’s annoying that we have had 3 Amelia’s or nickname for Amelia in the show. Jimmy’s wife was Amelia Amy Pond is the name of a Dr. Who character who is Amelia, then there was Amelia. Thanks for noting my stupid mind glitch.
I agree with your statement both boys have to be trustworthy and like it or not Sam hasn’t shown Dean that because he hasn’t exactly been consistently reliable.
Sure he may not have deliberately lied to Dean but he has manipulated his brother out of fully dealing with situations by laying down his lack of confidence. How exactly could Dean work through his anger and feelings with Sam going down the woe is me route or you don’t want me aroung – it may not be a conscious decision on Sam’s part but it is as much of a manipulation as Dean using shared history. Plus what with his not looking in season 8, the handcuffing after a fight (Dean was wrong to text but really what was his other options to stop Sam and Benny confronting each other in the time he had?) and then after finding out with Gadreel, (though he was right to be pissed) the words in the purge, how exactly in Dean’s eyes can he trust Sam 100% with having his back.
Doesn’t mean Sam doesn’t, but Sam has to show he is reliable and willing to go that mile for his brother to earn back the trust to make the partnership non toxic on his side.
When did Sam not have his brothers back this season? He wasn’t the one that walked away. That was Dean who didn’t stay with an emotionally and physically wounded Sam. Sam didn’t go anywhere. Yeah I’d say Sam was pretty angry but that didn’t stop him from saving his brothers life over and over or reaching Dean through the haze of the MOC or not wanting his brother used as a weapon or wanting to go down fighting at his brothers side. These two might get angry and fight but never once this season did I feel like they didn’t have each others back. At least until Dean was taken over by the MOC.
Boy do you have this wrong. The woe is me character is Dean.
Because if Sam did not have his back Sam would of walked out the door and a way from the relationship the moment the possession came to light. Dean wants it both ways he expects Sam to earn his trust back and clings onto old hurts but then expects Sam to give forgiveness without working for it. Where we stand right now with the brothers it should of been Dean earning Sam’s trust and belief back not marching off to get the MOC and then act wronged when Sam said what he did . But that will not happen now instead we have got the ‘the year of the Deanmon ‘ and Sam marching off to do dubious things to prove how much he loves Dean because apparently that is the benchmark for this brotherhood .
For Dean, Sam hasn’t been reliable. For Dean, Sam has been blowing hot and cold. Now Dean may have caused a lot of that but that doesn’t take away how it coming across in the partnership. He’s said he didn’t know what Sam wanted, he asked with a mortal wound about what happened to Sam being okay with him dying. If Dean knew his brother was reliable then he wouldn’t even have to ask that question even after the hard words in the Purge.
It doesn’t matter in Sam’s heart that he is there for his brother, it doesn’t matter that Dean hurt him and he has the right to be angry and pissed, he isn’t communicating it to his brother that he is fully there for Dean’s back and it goes back to season 8.
He can tell Cas and Gadreel that Dean isn’t a nuclear warhead but unless he lets Dean know that as well as standing by Dean’s side, Dean thinks that is all his brother thinks he is good for.
It cannot keep being turned back on Sam. Dean made it about himself and how he was affected not Sam , he so believed that he can do the wrong thing for the right reasons that what Sam said in the Purge never even occurred to him. Sam was at the receiving end of yet another decision Dean made but at no stage did he turn his back on Dean even when we got the miniscule insight into how he felt. I understand the whole for Dean because it is always for Dean it looks like this or it feels like that but does Dean ever think how he comes across to Sam , how his actions can make Sam feel ? that sometimes for Sam can be as equally as important.
So why should Sam look? How did Dean not come to the realisation about doing the wrong thing for the right reasons when it came to his brother before Sam said what he said in the Purge?
It takes two to tango. If Sam is to be equally important we have to have a Sam that equally responsible for the problems in the relationship. If he is not he is a wounded bird that needs taken care of and not a man who can take control of his life. I want Sam to be strong, not all over the place and a lot o Sam in the past two seasons emotionally has been and we can’t say that is solely on Dean as Sam is able to voice his problems and deal with them.
[quote]How did Dean not come to the realisation about doing the wrong thing for the right reasons when it came to his brother before Sam said what he said in the Purge?[/quote]He had burried it deep down .If you see the episode where he agreed to Gadreel’s plan he knew.He just buried it deep inside.The problem is Dean waits for the problem to be big before he even acknowledges it.[quote]It takes two to tango.[/quote]Thank god they are not doing a tango then.[quote]I want Sam to be strong, not all over the place and a lot o Sam in the past two seasons emotionally has been and we can’t say that is solely on Dean as Sam is able to voice his problems and deal with them.[/quote]He (Sam) is not all over the place..somethings are solely on Dean, I can say this.[quote]Sam is able to voice his problems and deal with them[/quote]He dealt with them his way and I am happy with the way.
I don’t know what more Sam could have done to show he was there for his brother other than being there for his brother. Sam went on one hunt by himself and he checked in with Dean the entire time. There wasn’t any other time that they were apart other than when Dean sought out Crowley. So I am not sure what else Sam could have done. Yes Dean lied to and betrayed Sam’s trust and Sam said things to Dean that were harsh and cruel. But Sam went after Dean when Dean took off with Crowley. Sam told Dean they were going to take on Metatron together. Sam had every intention of defeating Metatron or going down together with Dean. Dean was the one who took Sam out of that equation. Sam couldn’t get there in time to save Dean. And yes Dean tried to lighten the situation by gently teasing Sam as he started to succumb but remember Dean said he was “proud of us”. He meant Sam too.
How about doing what Dean was told to do by Sam about Sam not looking – drop it? 😉 As for what Sam can do – a lot. If not there isn’t much reason for him to be there.
Please tell me what is Sam’s motivation for looking this time outside Dean is his brother. At the start of this season he doesn’t know Dean is a demon. What is the real difference between this time and the last time at the end of season 8? Dean faced a big bad by himself without Sam even though Sam would have wanted to be by his side. He paid the price. If Sam hasn’t grown in the past two seasons they what is the difference between then and now for looking?
[quote] As for what Sam can do – a lot. If not there isn’t much reason for him to be there.[/quote]Where?[quote] What is the real difference between this time and the last time at the end of season 8?[/quote]He has a note from Dean.[quote]He paid the price.[/quote]Not even remotely.
I’m not exactly sure what you are asking. Did you want Dean to “drop it” or Sam? Drop what? What did you want Sam to do and where do you want him to be?
At the end of S7 Sam and Dean split up at Roman Enterprises. Sam was on his own while Dean and Cas went off on their search. When Sam and Kevin reached the lab they got there just in time to watch Dean, Cas and Roman explode. Now I know this is a very unpopular storyline for Sam but it is the one we were given. Sam thought Dean was dead, dead and gone resting peacefully in heaven. Sam didn’t get to watch the episode so he didn’t see Dean and Cas in Purgatory. He would have no reason to think that is where Dean would have gone since it is an afterlife for monsters. At that point Dean was not a monster. The difference this time is that Sam saw Dean die, carried his body back to the bunker and then went to make a deal with Crowley. At the beginning of S10 (yay) he goes back to where he left Dean and he isn’t there. Well Sam isn’t going to make the same mistake twice and there isn’t any reason for him to think there isn’t something supernaturally hinky going on (since dead bodies don’t just get up and walk away unless supernaturally influenced). So yes the circumstances are very different this time as opposed to the last. And yes Dean didn’t want Sam to be involved in the big fight with Metatron and maybe if Sam had been there Dean wouldn’t have been killed but Dean was still going to become a demon regardless. This is the storyline we are being given for S10 (yay) Dean has to be saved/cured of being a demon and this is the way it is going to happen evidently.
I think the “drop it” might be in reference to last season’s 8.06 Southern Comfort episode, where Dean had been taking pot shots at Sam all season for not looking for him, then Dean was infected by the spectre and was going to shoot Sam until Garth intervened. At the end of the episode, Sam was really pissed and told Dean that he already explained why he didn’t look for him, and to either move on or he would.
I don’t want to dredge up the horrible decision by the new showrunner to not have Sam look for Dean while in purgatory, and Sam did say he thought Dean was dead so he moved on with his life. But, in the past, being dead didn’t stop either of them from trying 😉 That being said, it’s perfectly valid to think Sam “broke” at the end of S7; he was just getting over his halluciferations, and while Castiel did transfer that burden to himself, that didn’t completely “fix” Sam (and this was alluded to in at least one subsequent conversation between the brothers). It was unfortunate that the show didn’t do a better job of explaining or giving more context to this decision by Sam in S8.
That being said, Dean’s S9/S10 problems are the direct result of decisions he made and actions he took, and he can’t really pull the “Sam was being mean to me so I took on the Mark of Cain because I’m poison” card.
I know that Sam said that to Dean in SC. I wanted to know what he/she wanted Sam/Dean to drop in this season. Sam for being upset that Dean had him possessed by a psycho angel that resulted in, among many things, Kevin’s death or Dean for being angry that Sam was angry. We can only go by what the show is telling us. We would have all loved to have seen a very different story for Sam in the first half of S8 but we didn’t get that so we have to go with the dialogue given to us. Otherwise it’s the endless debate of Sam should have done this/Dean should have never done that. Well Sam didn’t and Dean did. So I will have to go with Sam on this I will move on or the show will and I will miss out on some fun episodes and good stories.
ok – i don’t recall any conversations in S9 about dropping something but could be wrong.
I think my point was (as usual not very well stated) that Fazzie wanted either Sam or Dean to drop whatever issue they were having as Sam told Dean to do in SC after Sam decided he had enough riding about what he did or didn’t do. I wasn’t clear if he/she wanted Sam to drop his legitimate issues or if he/she wanted Dean to drop his. Again the story that was being told this season is what we have. For me personally I have to watch the show for how it is presented or written. If I (again me personally) start saying that Sam would never do this or Dean should have done that it takes away from the story that is being told. I’m not saying that it isn’t frustrating at times when a character seems to be written OOC but if I am going to watch this show I (again me personally) have to watch for what is on the screen. I know for others it is a different experience.
ok… wasn’t clear on what Fazzie was looking for, hence the confusion on my part.
No worries I tend to be confusing…;)
Rumors says that DemonDean will only last for 4 eps. That´s way to little for me since this whole thing with the mark of cain have been to end up here – and we only get 2 eps where Sam and Dean are in the same house/scenes. Even if Sam manage to get Dean back, the mark will still be there. The producers and Ackles said himself that one of the storylines this season is the mark. So.. Dean will still have the urge and need to kill. So why not keep DemonDean more than for 4 eps? It seems really.. boring if it´s true concider that they keep the soulles Sam in route for more than half of sesaon 6(?). Why can´t Dean have more long lasting storylines. This is always like this – with hell, purgatory.. (1 eps where he breaks down and then back to his charming self and taking care of Sam). I love Sam, but really.. they can´t give him more. It´s Deans turn to be bad ass and evil!! I strongly hope for more than 4 eps with Deanmon and.. IF he is cured after the 4th epsiode, I hope the mark of cain will make him as angry and neurotic like in the end of season 9.. why make a big rucus for possible only 4 episodes.. Come on.. year of the Deamon? More like the Days of the Deanmon..
Well according to fans at the time the SS storyline went 3 or 4 more episodes than anyone wanted (at least on line fans). I for one thought that SS was great and he was intended to go further into the season. I think the MOC is going to be a much bigger story than DD. And honestly by the clips we’ve seen so far DD isn’t very scary. I was really hoping for a Dean that was more powerful than any demon we have seen so far on the show. Either they haven’t released those scenes so that it will be a surprise or they went a whole different route than what I had expected.