Let’s Discuss: How Do You Solve a Problem Like the Angels
Angels. Or, as Dean would say, “Freakin’ angels!†First mentioned in season 2’s “Houses of the Holyâ€, they’ve been a thorn in the side of the Winchesters since they arrived on the scene in season 4’s opener, “Lazarus Risingâ€. They’ve been described as douches, dicks with wings, “Perfect… like a marble statue. Cold… no choice… only obedience†and generally speaking, they don’t understand the reference.
For the most part, they’re depicted as warriors with a singular focus, an inability to see light and shade and a general lack of respect and mercy for the human race. Of course, some angels have been shown to have affection for humanity and some have become allies. One particular trenchcoat wearing, nerd angel has become more than that, he’s become a friend, though Castiel has also demonstrated that when he has his own agenda (mistaken or otherwise), everything else, including friendship, can become secondary, revealing that angels can be susceptible to human-like failings.
The Winchester brothers are intrinsically linked to the angels through destiny, being born to be vessels for the archangel Michael and his brother Lucifer.
Now, in season 8, with the Word of God at stake, it appears the angels are back with a vengeance, spying, manipulating and doing heaven knows what? Or does Heaven not know? Or does Heaven even care?
So…as it appears they’re not going anywhere, let’s talk about the angels…
- How do you feel about the angels and how they’re represented in “Supernatural�
- Do you like that angels have become such a deep rooted part of the mythology?
- Are you glad to have the angels back with a bang in season 8?
- What are your theories as to what they’re up to this time?
- What do you think is going on in Heaven and who exactly is running the show up there?
- Where do you think we’re going with Castiel this season?
- What about that Transformer archangel, this Metatron fellow? Any theories?
- If you could have one angel make an epic comeback, who would it be?
This is a free form discussion, but please follow the WFB core rules…which are to be respectful, even if you disagree.
Now go forth and discuss my cherubs!
I’ll answer the easy question first, the angel I want back is Gabriel, no doubt about it!
I love the angels in the mythology and think season 7 lacked them and it was noticible to me. The angels make the story about Sam and Dean and their specialness. With the leviathans, any hunter could have taken them down (in theory).
Now the angels are back to their behind the scenes manipulating just like Zachariah. I love the mystery of why they are using Cas to spy on the Winchesters. It makes me Hope they are the most important humans in the universe again. It also makes me Hope that the angels are manipulating Sam and thats why he never looked for Dean and also had such low affect at the beginning
I, too, would love to Gabriel back among living with the Winchesters. He added a touch of fun in the series. I like the angel mythology arc and am wondering what’s up with them and the Winchester’s.
I’m not excited about the return of the angels. Cas has been back one hot minute and already he’s an unwitting spy for the angels, and we don’t know what they’re up to.
I will forever grieve over Sam’s loss of faith from Houses of the Holy, when he said that he wanted to believe that there was some higher power, some greater good, and that maybe he could be saved. He was so young, and so overwhelmed. Then the angels manipulated him, used him, and blamed him, and never once came to his aid, except when they thought it would help them get Dean to do what they wanted.
The angels are bad news. If they were up to good, they would go directly to Dean and Sam, instead of forcing Castiel to spy on them.
And they put little Alfie in harm’s way and let him get tortured.
[quote]I will forever grieve over Sam’s loss of faith from Houses of the Holy, when he said that he wanted to believe that there was some higher power, some greater good, and that maybe he could be saved. He was so young, and so overwhelmed. Then the angels manipulated him, used him, and blamed him, and never once came to his aid, except when they thought it would help them get Dean to do what they wanted.[/quote]Me too.I think the same
Yep, I’m so with you guys. That episode saddens me every time I see it. He was so hopeful in it. Then with WTLB, it just became obvious that they were never going to be the good guys for Sam.
So true..it’s really sad to lose your faith in that way. I specially remember that moment when Sam first shook hand with Uriel and said ” It’s a honor to meet you sir” and see how they treated him!!
Apologies for the long essay. I’m completely bored with my college vacation, and what better way to pass the time!
How do you feel about the angels and how they’re represented in “Supernatural�
– Great question. This doesn’t bother me as much as it should because I’m not Christian, and there are no angels in Hindu mythology, but Supernatural has uprooted my perception of angels. When I look at images of Cupid cherubs, I think of that guy in My Bloody Valentine. When I think of Raphael, I think of the “dude wearing a ladyâ€. I smile when I hear “Gabriel,†and my whole idea of Michael’s changed. The angels in SPN aren’t agnostic or evil, they’re just unreasonable and super-focused on their big plans to acknowledge humanity, or human misery.
Am I right in assuming that SPN was the first to portray angels this way? Since then, a crop of novels with the same idea has hit the shelves, and now when I hear “angels,†I never think of golden harps and blonde cherubs.
Do you like that angels have become such a deep-rooted part of the mythology?
– I do. It makes sense for them to be there given the apparent rule that every supernatural being exists, although sometimes their power does feel like relegating other religion’s mythologies to simple MOTW. So God and the Angels, according to Christian myth, seem quite like all-powerful beings while the other religious Gods and beings- Mayan, or even Greek- come across as ridiculous, crazy, easily killable entities. I suppose this has to do with the fact that people don’t believe in them anymore and thus they don’t have much power.
Are you glad to have the angels back with a bang in season 8?
– Depends on where season 8 is going with them. While I like the CIAngels at one look, I can’t help but feel that I might, you know, get bored with them and their spaceship room and the whole sterile manner. Unless awesome things happen.
What are your theories as to what they’re up to this time?
– Two words: Angel tablet. I’m pretty sure there is one, and possibly the CIAngels don’t want it to be unearthed. Or they just don’t want the hell-gates to close.
What do you think is going on in Heaven and who exactly is running the show up there?
– Anarchy? Utter chaos? Freewill for everyone? And my guess is that no one’s running the show. Or Metatron? I’ve answered why I think that below with the Metatron question.
Where do you think we’re going with Castiel this season?
– One hell of a question. So the CIAngels got him out of Purgatory, sacrificing several of their own in the process, and it COULD be possible that the angels had told Benny about the portal as well. So then, why do they need Castiel? To simply spy on the Winchesters? But they can be invisible! So why kill half a contingent of angels to just get Cas out? My head is getting wrecked.
Another thought: might we actually get Purgatory flashbacks from Cass’s POV? Perhaps there’s more to his rescue than he remembers. Or maybe I just don’t want the Purgatory FB’s to end 😀
What about that Transformer archangel, this Metatron fellow? Any theories?
– I’ve kind of cottoned onto someone’s suggestion that Chuck might be Metatron. Think about it, he’s a scribe too. And he seems to be more than a prophet. Since Metatron took leave of his master in this world (in this world? what does that mean?) maybe it means he left heaven and was living on Earth?
The Metatron myths are very interesting. Metatron is said to be “God’s mediator with menâ€. There are references to him being the angel that prevented Abraham’s killing of Isaac. The Talmud also confuses him occasionally with Michael, and there is at least one reference that puts him as “the one who occupies the throne next to the throne of glory,†or second only to God. He’s even the only angel who’s allowed to sit in God’s presence. Since “God has left the buildingâ€, maybe Metatron IS running the show in heaven. Or he could be the one behind the CIAngels, because if anyone knows what’s in the tablets, it’s him. Now that more of the freewill seems to be floating around, perhaps he doesn’t want the tablets to be found or used.
Another interesting idea is that Metatron was actually a human, Enoch, who was transformed into an angel by God. The text actually says, “Enoch, whom God placed on a throne next to the throne of glory, received after this heavenly transformation the name Metatron†Reminds me a lot of Chuck, again.
If you could have one angel make an epic comeback, who would it be?
– Gabriel. Of course. No question about it.
Great theories!!
– One hell of a question. So the CIAngels got him out of Purgatory, sacrificing several of their own in the process, and it COULD be possible that the angels had told Benny about the portal as well. So then, why do they need Castiel? To simply spy on the Winchesters? But they can be invisible! So why kill half a contingent of angels to just get Cas out? My head is getting wrecked.
This point is bothering me too. Angels must have something planned for both the Winchesters and that is not going to be good. 😕
But this has definitely got me excited.
I LOVE THE ANGELS & GOOD & EVIL. POSITIVE AND NEGITIVE FORCE.
REMEMBER CAS SAID EVERYTIME HE IS RESURRECTED IT’S A PUNISHMENT OR PENANCE.
I MISS GABRIEL….maybe 🙂 NO I DO. I HAVE LIKED MOST OF THE MALE ANGELS.
I DONT KNOW WHAT’S UP BUT I AM A RIDE OR DIE FAN SO I AM IN IT TILL THE END.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE. I HAVE BEEN AWAY MUCH TO LONG.
Totally off topic here, but thanks Sweetondean for the “catchy” article title. I’m gonna be singing Sound of Music / Maria in my head all day! 😮
Seriously, some talented person here should “rewrite” that song!
I agree with Darya about the Angel tablet. I think that’s what we’ll see for Season 9. The possibilities there are exciting!
I [i]am[/i] Christian (Roman Catholic, actually) and I LOVE how this show portrays angels. While they’re definitely not canonical, they have elements and characteristics of biblical angels. It’s pop culture that turned these warriors of God into harp-playing pansies. After all, in the Bible, nearly every time an angel appears to a human the first words spoken are something like “Be not afraid” or “Fear not.” Translation, angels are scary!
Cas’ storyline doesn’t bother me, but I’m hoping that he’s able to fight back somehow this season. I’d like all the boys to take a more pro-active approach to the plot this season. IMO, they’ve been too reactive lately. Grab the bull by the horns, boys!
The one question I can answer without a doubt, is that I want Gabriel back! LOVE that tricky angel!
If God is just, he should bring back Gabe for being the good angel at the last and standing up to his brother Lucifer. He brought back Cas twice, now it is Gabe’s turn. Hoping for that crafty angel to return somehow, as friend or foe to the boys. Hard to tell the difference, some times. 😀
The easist question to answer is the angel to bring back. I’d love Gabriel. He was a lot of fun, both as friend and foe. He could come back anytime. Really. Feel free to bring him back, Carver.
My thoughts on the Angels, their ties to SPN Mythology, and what they’re up to?
Hmmm.. Trickier. This is going to get long. I was *very* excited when they were first introduced. I think Lazarus Rising is the finest 40ish minutes that SPN has put out. The last scene with Castiel’s introduction hit me like a ton of bricks. Loved every moment. I was struck by how the chemistry between JA and MC simply crackled off the screen. I also found MC’s acting choices to be interesting, I loved his interpretation of an Angel. He really did come across as otherworldly, as Other. I also *loved* Uriel and Zachariah, because they were excellent adversaries, you could feel the hate (Uriel) and disgust (Zach) dripping from both actors. Great stuff. But overall, I *don’t* like the angels. I was hoping for intense, otherworldly warriors, very different from human. I wanted there to be conflict between what they appear to be (human), and what they actually are (warriors of God). But instead, we got whiny-ass Daddy’s boys, who supposedly are built for duty and have no emotions, but exhibit absolutely *no* call to duty, and are petty, scheming, dickish, manipulative and liars. In other words, they’re demons. With invisible wings. If that’s what they were going to be, why not just introduce another level of demon and be done with it? And while I really liked the introduction of Naoimi, I’m afraid that the pulled-back hair, pristine environment, corporate CEO is all we’re going to get. I hope not, but history has prepared me for being let down.
What do I think they’re up to?
I don’t think they want the Hell Gates closed. They can’t bring about “Eden” with the Winchesters, but they can manipulate bloodlines and get two other poor slobs to play their parts. After all, the 66 seals are down and Lilith is dead. But if the Hell Gates prevent anything from crawling out, neither Michael nor Lucifer will be able to fulfill their function. Also, I do think there’s some other reason. I think there’s something about the tablets, about *why* God had Metatron transcribe them. Probably something along the lines of a final goodbye, good-luck and thanks for all the fishes! epistle from Daddy. And the Angels don’t seem to like being without Daddy. I think they want to find him, and hope the tablets will lead the way. But only time will tell, and so far, I’ve enjoyed the mytharc episodes of the season. I haven’t enjoyed the other episodes, and I don’t care for the pacing (the pacing sucks this season), but I can see that there is a clear story and I do feel that it’s progressing, has a beginning-middle-end, and that there’s a point to all this. And that’s something I haven’t felt since mid-season 5.
[i]1. How do you feel about the angels and how they’re represented in “Supernaturalâ€?[/i]I do like the whole angel aspect, but I wish some of them would be more like Cass & less like Zachariah. Gabriel was great, but yep, they killed him. 😥
[i]2. Do you like that angels have become such a deep rooted part of the mythology?[/i] I love angel lore in any form. I read loads of books on that subject, so you can count me in the happy group. 🙂
[i]3. Are you glad to have the angels back with a bang in season 8?[/i] I’m happy to have both the angels & the demons back in season 8. What’s good without evil after all.
[i]4.What are your theories as to what they’re up to this time?[/i] I hope it’s not Apocalyse part deux. Maybe getting Michael out of the cage? I think they decided to bring Cass back because the Winchesters are together again, and they want to use them. For what purpose that remains to be seen. Maybe there is a tablet out there about them that could be the angels in jeopardy.
[i]5. What do you think is going on in Heaven and who exactly is running the show up there?[/i] I don’t think God is around anymore. Maybe he/she is on earth for some well deserved R&R and there is an angel with even more hubris than Cass had in season 6 running the show.
[i]6. Where do you think we’re going with Castiel this season?[/i] I’m glad to see Cass back to his season 4 self, but I’m also worried that the CIAngels are using him to spy on the Winchesters. That’s not going to end well.
[i]7. What about that Transformer archangel, this Metatron fellow? Any theories?[/i] I hope we get to meet Metatron eventually. That note he left on the demon tablet made it sound like he had enough of taking dictation. Maybe he’s the one running Heaven now and there is a Winchester tablet somewhere that he needs to keep hidden.
[i]8. If you could have one angel make an epic comeback, who would it be?[/i] I think we are all in agreement here, Gabriel. 😛
Sylvie, the idea of a Winchester tablet has me so excited! That’s a possibility that I hadn’t considered but also has so much potential!
And I agree, we need Gabe back. If nothing else, show us Loki.
[b] How do you feel about the angels and how they’re represented in “Supernatural�[/b]
I like it, an unconventional take on
Angels, was unexpected .
[b] Do you like that angels have become such a deep rooted part of the mythology?[/b]
Yes, they are as someone said part of the “supernatural”
[b]Are you glad to have the angels back with a bang in season 8?[/b]
Castiel, yes, the others? eh not so sure yet!
[b] What are your theories as to what they’re up to this time?[/b]
geez, to soon to tell,right now it doesn’t look good for Sam and Dean,but I guess that could change, well probably not!
[b] What do you think is going on in Heaven and who exactly is running the show up there?[/b]
another order of angels, since they seem to be able to brainwash Cas and Noami did say that few angels had been to that part of heaven
[b]Where do you think we’re going with Castiel this season?[/b]
poor Cas gets the short end of the stick everytime, and this time he doesn’t even know. I think Sam and Dean will figure it, but will it be in time?
[b] What about that Transformer archangel, this Metatron fellow? Any theories?[/b]
ah, mystery’s not enough info. yet
I’m just here for the ride and liking it so far!
[b] If you could have one angel make an epic comeback, who would it be?[/b]
Gabriel of course lol
I can answer all your questions with one line. I hate the angels and have since season 4 episode 1.
“FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU… FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE”
I KNOW I AM JUST AN OLD SICKLY BLACK FEMALE CREOLE LADY BUT I WANNA KICK DEAN IN THE SHIN. DONT U KNOW BY NOW SON? DONT U KNOW. DAMN, SHIT, MOFO =(……D’ANGELO
THEEEEEEE ANGLES CAN NOT what NOT NOT NOT BE TRUSTED PERIOD !!!!!!!!!! HELLO knock knock knock. SMDH
I HOPE ALICE READS ALL, BUT SHE IS A BUSY WOMAN. I HAVE FOUND FRIENDSHIP & KINSHIP ON THIS SITE. MY 1ST AND ONLY. I AM NOT WELL & HOPE TO MAKE 50 IN JANUARAY. BUT IF NOT I HAVE LOOOOOOOVVVVVED THIS SIGHT
PEACE & BLESSING MY LOVES…. LATER =)
[quote] In other words, they’re demons. With invisible wings. If that’s what they were going to be, why not just introduce another level of demon and be done with it? And while I really liked the introduction of Naoimi, I’m afraid that the pulled-back hair, pristine environment, corporate CEO is all we’re going to get. I hope not, but history has prepared me for being let down.
.[/quote]
Here, I quote from Wikipedia “In the Apocalypse of Peter he(Uriel) appears as the Angel of Repentance, who is graphically represented as being as pitiless as any demon.” Also, as far as Supernatural is concerned, they absolutely reduce everything to ‘humane’ level. Remember the Paradise depicted as a botanical garden? And the talk of “Gospel of Winchesters”? That’s the whole point basically-making divine personal. So, there goes the corporate Naomi! 🙂