sam and dean

Once upon a time I fell for this show. It was kinda creepy and then there were these two brothers...

As time went on I fell head over heels in love with both of them. I loved how they loved each other. I could see it was co-dependent and not very healthy, but I didn’t seem to be able to muster up the ability to care! I loved them too much and I loved how they loved, pure and simple.

As time went on their lives became somehow intermeshed with mine. I celebrated their wins, I wept at their tragedies, I yelled at them when they lied, I laughed when they lost a shoe.

Their story got more and more complex, people came into their world, some stayed, some died and I cried alongside the brothers for those losses.

The brother’s story got big, like Heaven and Hell big and I hung on with everything I had as the ride went from crazy to wild! I loved every journey, every epic mythic arc, every moment of world changing destiny revealed, but I never lost sight of one thing…why I fell in love with this show. I never lost sight of that, ever. It was kinda creepy and then there were these two brothers…

I watch this show with my heart; I don’t know how to watch it any other way. I don’t see the minutia other fans see. I’m not interested in unravelling the nitty gritty to find the cracks in the canon or the characterisations. My heart just doesn’t see that stuff. Maybe it’s rose-coloured blindness, or my blind optimism, but to me it’s not worth sacrificing what has become an intrinsic part of the fabric of my being, to look for those things, even when I know others see them. Love is blind I guess and yeah, I love Supernatural.

So you won’t be surprised to read that “Bad Boys” had me at hello…or rather at, take your brother outside as fast as you can… You knew that already though right? You guys know me by now. How did you think I would feel about this episode! It was all about the man I love with great big capital letters that reach to the sky and block out everything else from view. Dean Winchester is my heart and his brother Sam resides there with him.

As we head towards what we know is going to be a painful revelation, it was important for us to be reminded who these brothers once were and still are and what they mean to each other and it was important for the brothers to be reminded of this too. “Bad Boys” was an exercise in reconnecting us with what is the spirit of Supernatural, what the brothers represent in each other’s lives and what may be compromised or lost because on a tragic November night, one brother took the other into his arms and has never been able to let go.

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It’s been a long time since an episode has made me cover my eyes and look away because of squick and it’s been a long time since an episode has left me sobbing uncontrollably! “Bad Boys” made me do both. 

I loved the good ole’ fashioned ghost hunt. The salt and burn. The story about a kid who lost his mum to fire and who was both literally and figuratively haunted by that tragedy. I loved the horrific bathtub suffocation and the errant lawn mower causing a kid to need about 8,000 stiches. Squick! Yes that’s when I covered my eyes and had to look away and I loved the walk through Dean’s memories, to a time not even Sam knew about.

I was glad to see, that like most teenagers, Dean had a rebellious streak. He wasn’t always the good little soldier. I never thought he would’ve been. There’s more to Dean that than. He’s deeper than that. We’ve seen him slip out on Sam to go play video games and though that taught him a valuable lesson, being don’t do that, he was still a cocky S.O.B. when we later met him in high school, making out in the janitor’s closet with a couple of chicks on the hop. I’m sure, regardless of his eventual dedication to the family business and devotion to his father, like all teenagers, he had his moments and apparently one of those moments ended up with him in enough trouble that he wound up in a boy’s home.

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Why John decided to leave Dean there we don’t know. Maybe he was angry, teaching his kid a lesson, trying to make him understand there are consequences to all actions, especially if you’re a Winchester, or maybe he knew that for a couple of months Dean would be safe and saw that as a good thing for his son. Whatever his reason all those years ago, I’m glad he did it, because it gave Dean a moment of normality in his otherwise chaotic life.

Dean went to school, became a wrestling champ and learnt how to kiss a girl! Normal teenage stuff. I’m so glad Dean has those memories. I’m also glad that for a fleeting moment that life was something Dean considered as a possible future. I’d be truly worried if he didn’t. Because given his everyday circumstance, that life, with young love blossoming, should have seemed attractive to him. Later on down the years, every so often he still pined for that kind of life, though he grew to understand that it could never be his and just as has happened in more recent times it only took one thing to make Dean know where his place truly was and always will be. It only took Sam.

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Seeing his little brother waiting outside in the car caused all thoughts of another life to evaporate and a smile as wide as the great outdoors to spread across Dean's face. He walked away, never looked back and never regretted it. Because of Sam. Sam was and still is Dean’s world and I can’t do anything but love him for that. In fact…this is where I sobbed…uncontrollably! Sam is Dean’s happiness and by Sam’s side is where he will always want to be, for better or worse.

Though I adored the flashbacks to Dean’s past and discovering a side of Dean that we had yet to see, it was the brothers in the present day that made my heart sing.

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It was the moments when Dean was helping the kids at the home, whether putting bullies in their place or teaching little Timmy how to shake hands Kung-Fu grip style. It was the moments where Sam figured out Dean had liked that girl and teased him for it, or marvelled that Dean was an athlete back in the day, or saw the pentagram carved into the bedpost and smiled. It was Dean’s softness that was amplified as he tried to comfort a kid who’d lost everything and it was Sam’s wistful looks as he saw his big brother through fresh eyes.

It was the Winchesters, once again, calling out each other’s names, having each other’s backs, fighting side by side, working as one.

It was a big brother who loved his little brother so much that nothing else mattered and a little brother who saw that love and loved his big brother even more because of it.

“Dean, thank you”

“For what?”

“For always being there… for having my back… Look I know it always hasn’t been easy…”

“I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about”

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“Bad Boys” was the boiled down essence of everything I fell in love with when it came to Supernatural. Everything I fell in love with when it came to the brothers Winchester. Everything I fell in love with in Dean. It was an hour of pure, joyous nostalgia.

I sobbed uncontrollably at the end of this episode. I really did! Big blubbery sobs. I sobbed for many reasons…in sadness for the life that these brothers have to endure, for all the things they’ve had to give up, for Sam reaching out to Dean to say thanks and for Dean, who only had to see his little brother to know, that he could be nowhere else but by Sam’s side. I sobbed uncontrollably at the happiness they fill me with and the beauty that lay at the heart of these two men. *sigh* They're so awesome!

Yup, I fell head over heels for Supernatural all over again this week and even though I wouldn’t have thought it at all possible, I fell more and more in love with Dean.

We all see Supernatural differently and see in it, different things. It's part of the beauty of this show, that we can all look at it from our own perspective.

I loved “Bad Boys” with great big capital letters that reach to the sky and block out everything else from view…

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Geeze…I’m so sorry! I know this isn’t much of a review, or really even a review! Just a cascade of feels!

But I watch this show with my heart; I don’t know how to watch it any other way…

Because it’s kinda creepy and then there are these two brothers…

-sweetondean




Comments  

Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2013-11-21 07:32
Thanks for this great review. I loved it too. I'm glad you still retain your enthusiasm for the show, as I do, while (sadly) Alice is coming across as very jaded in her review which is a real shame. If you have loved the show from the start, and this ep cannot remind you of all the reasons you fell in love with it in the first place then I think that is really sad.

Great ep. Great review. Thanks.
Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2013-11-21 07:32
Thanks for this great review. I loved it too. I'm glad you still retain your enthusiasm for the show, as I do, while (sadly) Alice is coming across as very jaded in her review which is a real shame. If you have loved the show from the start, and this ep cannot remind you of all the reasons you fell in love with it in the first place then I think that is really sad.

Great ep. Great review. Thanks.
htbrown07
# htbrown07 2013-11-21 07:39
Love this. I just started watching this past summer, and it took me about 2 episodes to fall in love with Sam & Dean. This episode was just perfect in my book.
htbrown07
# htbrown07 2013-11-21 07:39
Love this. I just started watching this past summer, and it took me about 2 episodes to fall in love with Sam & Dean. This episode was just perfect in my book.
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-11-21 07:43
Thank you so much Amy. The first few things I read about this episode after it aired weren't great and I thought what is wrong with me because I LOVED it so much... and for much the same reasons as you.

This was a good old fashioned ghost hunt that reminded me of seasons 1 and 2; but it was so much more than that. I loved learning more about Dean and I loved seeing Sam learn more about Dean. Honestly, I just love these boys so much and I could care less about minor issues with canon. We are 9 seasons in & there are bound to be issues. They just don't bother me.

I also love that you haven't really done a review this week but you've poured your heart out onto the page. Your words made me cry again; just like the episode :cry: :D
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-11-21 07:43
Thank you so much Amy. The first few things I read about this episode after it aired weren't great and I thought what is wrong with me because I LOVED it so much... and for much the same reasons as you.

This was a good old fashioned ghost hunt that reminded me of seasons 1 and 2; but it was so much more than that. I loved learning more about Dean and I loved seeing Sam learn more about Dean. Honestly, I just love these boys so much and I could care less about minor issues with canon. We are 9 seasons in & there are bound to be issues. They just don't bother me.

I also love that you haven't really done a review this week but you've poured your heart out onto the page. Your words made me cry again; just like the episode :cry: :D
Débora
# Débora 2013-11-21 07:50
OMG you made me cry with this kind of review...It summarizes every feeling I have for this show and for Dean. Really, thank you so much for putting into words all that feelings, has been inspiring reading it!

I love this flashback episodes, discovering and getting deep into this brother's history makes me feel as exciting as I was when I saw the pilot for the first time. After 9 seasons the show keeps on maintaining its essence, maybe with some ups and downs, but as you said, I can just see the whole thing, I don't want to focus on the minutia others see. I prefer enjoying the ride because when this kind of episodes come up is when you realize how worth was paying for your ticket!
Débora
# Débora 2013-11-21 07:50
OMG you made me cry with this kind of review...It summarizes every feeling I have for this show and for Dean. Really, thank you so much for putting into words all that feelings, has been inspiring reading it!

I love this flashback episodes, discovering and getting deep into this brother's history makes me feel as exciting as I was when I saw the pilot for the first time. After 9 seasons the show keeps on maintaining its essence, maybe with some ups and downs, but as you said, I can just see the whole thing, I don't want to focus on the minutia others see. I prefer enjoying the ride because when this kind of episodes come up is when you realize how worth was paying for your ticket!
Ginger
# Ginger 2013-11-21 08:09
From your review, I'd say the episode did what it was supposed to do -- reminded the audience and Sam of the ultimate sacrifice Dean has made for Sam. I think this reminder will be important to remember as the season progresses.

I liked the episode, too.
Ginger
# Ginger 2013-11-21 08:09
From your review, I'd say the episode did what it was supposed to do -- reminded the audience and Sam of the ultimate sacrifice Dean has made for Sam. I think this reminder will be important to remember as the season progresses.

I liked the episode, too.
sofia
# sofia 2013-11-21 08:11
Your reviews always make me happy. Thanks! Glad I'm not the only one who is happy to just take this show in and enjoy everything about it.
sofia
# sofia 2013-11-21 08:11
Your reviews always make me happy. Thanks! Glad I'm not the only one who is happy to just take this show in and enjoy everything about it.
jarielynn
# jarielynn 2013-11-21 08:22
Love, love, love your wrap up! And it is exactly how I feel, except I am more a Sam girl. lol. This epi was one of the first this season that twisted my heart, made me laugh and cry and is why I love this show! I also do not sweat the details, most of the time I do not even catch the small stuff. I just like watching for the pure love of the brothers and this epi gave us plenty of love. The end really got to me too. I didn't cry because I was elated, I just knew that was going to happen, that Sam would be why Dean would not stay. That he would see his brother and that would be it. Of course, it's Dean! I did tear up when Sam again realizes the sacrifices Dean has made for him and says Thank you. I just really enjoyed this episode and am going to be watching again tonight. :D
jarielynn
# jarielynn 2013-11-21 08:22
Love, love, love your wrap up! And it is exactly how I feel, except I am more a Sam girl. lol. This epi was one of the first this season that twisted my heart, made me laugh and cry and is why I love this show! I also do not sweat the details, most of the time I do not even catch the small stuff. I just like watching for the pure love of the brothers and this epi gave us plenty of love. The end really got to me too. I didn't cry because I was elated, I just knew that was going to happen, that Sam would be why Dean would not stay. That he would see his brother and that would be it. Of course, it's Dean! I did tear up when Sam again realizes the sacrifices Dean has made for him and says Thank you. I just really enjoyed this episode and am going to be watching again tonight. :D
ryder21
# ryder21 2013-11-21 08:24
Your reviews are the ones I wait for as I truly love to read them. You love the show like I do and your feels reach out to us and embrace us.
I have read some comments about this episode stating that it didn't tell us anything we haven't already figured out, that it didn't forward the arch etc. For me however this episode did something better, it gave me (and Sam) more of an insight into what makes Dean tick, and why he makes some of the decisions he does, justifying them to himself. I strengthened the core bond of the brothers, which is always lovely to see *wibble*.
I really liked Dylan Everett as a young Dean, he seemed to have Dean's/Jensen's mannerisms down and I found myself relating to him, he is now my favourite younger Dean.
ryder21
# ryder21 2013-11-21 08:24
Your reviews are the ones I wait for as I truly love to read them. You love the show like I do and your feels reach out to us and embrace us.
I have read some comments about this episode stating that it didn't tell us anything we haven't already figured out, that it didn't forward the arch etc. For me however this episode did something better, it gave me (and Sam) more of an insight into what makes Dean tick, and why he makes some of the decisions he does, justifying them to himself. I strengthened the core bond of the brothers, which is always lovely to see *wibble*.
I really liked Dylan Everett as a young Dean, he seemed to have Dean's/Jensen's mannerisms down and I found myself relating to him, he is now my favourite younger Dean.
st50
# st50 2013-11-21 08:26
Beautiful review, sweetondean!
That is EXACTLY why I watch the show, and I'm sure that was the intent of the episode - to remind us who these guys truly are and why we love them and the show.

"Because it’s kinda creepy and then there are these two brothers…"

I'm glad I read your review, because it gave me more of those feels than the episode itself did. I do struggle with the minutia. Maybe it's the scientist part of me, but the devil is indeed in the details.

Thanks for this, and keep on writing! I'll keep reading to be reminded of what's really important.
"..and then there are these two brothers."
st50
# st50 2013-11-21 08:26
Beautiful review, sweetondean!
That is EXACTLY why I watch the show, and I'm sure that was the intent of the episode - to remind us who these guys truly are and why we love them and the show.

"Because it’s kinda creepy and then there are these two brothers…"

I'm glad I read your review, because it gave me more of those feels than the episode itself did. I do struggle with the minutia. Maybe it's the scientist part of me, but the devil is indeed in the details.

Thanks for this, and keep on writing! I'll keep reading to be reminded of what's really important.
"..and then there are these two brothers."
Prix68
# Prix68 2013-11-21 08:29
I couldn't wait for your review to come out because I knew you would get this episode. I loved it too and for the exact same reasons. I have a feeling I'll need to hang on to the good feels from this episode to get through the rest of the season. Thanks so much.
Prix68
# Prix68 2013-11-21 08:29
I couldn't wait for your review to come out because I knew you would get this episode. I loved it too and for the exact same reasons. I have a feeling I'll need to hang on to the good feels from this episode to get through the rest of the season. Thanks so much.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-11-21 08:40
Quoting Ginger:
From your review, I'd say the episode did what it was supposed to do -- reminded the audience and Sam of the ultimate sacrifice Dean has made for Sam. I think this reminder will be important to remember as the season progresses.

I liked the episode, too.

Yes it is obvious what this episode was designed to do and the position it has put Sam in when he finds out about Ezekiel and what Dean did. Should I thank the show for this , do I think it is fair on Sam because I do not.

Dean chose to go back , made a decision Sam never knew about the same Dean who resented Sam for seeking the same thing and yet here we are again with the sacrifices Dean has made and right before Sam learns of the angel . There is alot that should be remembered where these two brothers are concerned but that will not happen and
more is the pity for it.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-11-21 08:40
Quote:
From your review, I'd say the episode did what it was supposed to do -- reminded the audience and Sam of the ultimate sacrifice Dean has made for Sam. I think this reminder will be important to remember as the season progresses.

I liked the episode, too.
Yes it is obvious what this episode was designed to do and the position it has put Sam in when he finds out about Ezekiel and what Dean did. Should I thank the show for this , do I think it is fair on Sam because I do not.

Dean chose to go back , made a decision Sam never knew about the same Dean who resented Sam for seeking the same thing and yet here we are again with the sacrifices Dean has made and right before Sam learns of the angel . There is alot that should be remembered where these two brothers are concerned but that will not happen and
more is the pity for it.
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-11-21 08:46
Thanks Amy, I know I can always count on you to have liked (actually that's an understatement, more like loved ;-) an episode. I'm kind of like KG_SPN. I started reading some of the reviews and they weren't all that great, and I couldn't understand cause I really enjoyed the episode! :sigh: I love the brotherly bond so bloody much, and this episode had that in spades. Loved the ghost, it was touching that the mother stuck around to protect her little boy. And the way Dean bonded with Timmy was just so sweet. Dean really has the soft mushy heart when it comes to children. All those years looking after his little brother I guess.

I liked young Dean. The actor playing him was very good, although I do think he could have been 14-15 instead of 16, cause Sam looked younger than 12 in the car, but that's just a small detail that doesn't make me not like the episode. I sympathised with Sam when he looked so surprised at Dean being gone for 2 months because he was in a boys' home. When I was about 8, my sister (who was 15 at the time) disappeared for a few months. My mother told me she was studying in another city and I didn't question any of it. It was 20 years later that I found out the truth. She was at a school for pregnant teens. I had a niece out there somewhere! :eek: My sister and my mother having managed to keep that secret from me for so long was a bit of a miracle. So, yeah I know exactly how Sam felt after he found out the truth. Sorry, I have a tendency to overshare on this site, you all feel like my friends! :-)
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-11-21 08:46
Thanks Amy, I know I can always count on you to have liked (actually that's an understatement, more like loved ;-) an episode. I'm kind of like KG_SPN. I started reading some of the reviews and they weren't all that great, and I couldn't understand cause I really enjoyed the episode! :sigh: I love the brotherly bond so bloody much, and this episode had that in spades. Loved the ghost, it was touching that the mother stuck around to protect her little boy. And the way Dean bonded with Timmy was just so sweet. Dean really has the soft mushy heart when it comes to children. All those years looking after his little brother I guess.

I liked young Dean. The actor playing him was very good, although I do think he could have been 14-15 instead of 16, cause Sam looked younger than 12 in the car, but that's just a small detail that doesn't make me not like the episode. I sympathised with Sam when he looked so surprised at Dean being gone for 2 months because he was in a boys' home. When I was about 8, my sister (who was 15 at the time) disappeared for a few months. My mother told me she was studying in another city and I didn't question any of it. It was 20 years later that I found out the truth. She was at a school for pregnant teens. I had a niece out there somewhere! :eek: My sister and my mother having managed to keep that secret from me for so long was a bit of a miracle. So, yeah I know exactly how Sam felt after he found out the truth. Sorry, I have a tendency to overshare on this site, you all feel like my friends! :-)
tw1nsm0m
# tw1nsm0m 2013-11-21 08:56
Thank you for this review. In fact, not only did the show make me sob... your write up has as well. And I too sobbed for all the reasons you listed and for the dread I feel at how the whole issue with Zeke MAY play out.

I cry for the brother's bond and how it has changed through the years for better or for worse. And I cry for the complexity that is these damaged boys/men and how much I love them and the Show both.

Yeah, I too absolutely loved this episode. I'm head over heels for it.
tw1nsm0m
# tw1nsm0m 2013-11-21 08:56
Thank you for this review. In fact, not only did the show make me sob... your write up has as well. And I too sobbed for all the reasons you listed and for the dread I feel at how the whole issue with Zeke MAY play out.

I cry for the brother's bond and how it has changed through the years for better or for worse. And I cry for the complexity that is these damaged boys/men and how much I love them and the Show both.

Yeah, I too absolutely loved this episode. I'm head over heels for it.
E
# E 2013-11-21 08:57
Hi SoD,
Lovely review. I won't rain on your parade of feels.. I just really disliked how illogical the entire scenario was in this one. I am so glad you have your love for the show intact. I do too, just not so much for this particular episode.
E
# E 2013-11-21 08:57
Hi SoD,
Lovely review. I won't rain on your parade of feels.. I just really disliked how illogical the entire scenario was in this one. I am so glad you have your love for the show intact. I do too, just not so much for this particular episode.
suebsg9
# suebsg9 2013-11-21 09:16
Someone watches for same reason I do just for the enjoyment of the show. Of course took me 6 seasons when I did start watching the show to get pass the gross factor. Yes I turned the channel because come on you know that the kid and mowers just don't mix realy ugh could not watch. But I enjoyed the look back at Deans life where he had normal and some one proud of him and the fact he was good in school and how being a mechanic sounded like a good job and loved his description of the cars being a puzzle. And was nice to see Sam see Deans name on wrestling champ and also found his bed in the house. Was it me or was Sam surprized at the fact Timmy ran to Dean; not sure if he thought he would be the one getting the hug. And is it me or is Dean still not telling alot because of Zeke inside of Sam. I mean did Dean seem more closed off then usual or did he just tell his brother enough. And like the actors who played Sonny and young Dean did a good job for watching Supernatural all 5 seasons in a short time span before he had to take on the role. Ok rambling. Still gotta love Jensen man he is good. And you can tell how conflicted he is with putting zeke in sam its like the nightmare that just keeps haunting him and its like he so wants sam to figure out then him having to say anything. But will be heartbreaking and just getting to close. I never mind the brothers fighting its just you got to wonder how this one will go over. OK again babbling sorry.
suebsg9
# suebsg9 2013-11-21 09:16
Someone watches for same reason I do just for the enjoyment of the show. Of course took me 6 seasons when I did start watching the show to get pass the gross factor. Yes I turned the channel because come on you know that the kid and mowers just don't mix realy ugh could not watch. But I enjoyed the look back at Deans life where he had normal and some one proud of him and the fact he was good in school and how being a mechanic sounded like a good job and loved his description of the cars being a puzzle. And was nice to see Sam see Deans name on wrestling champ and also found his bed in the house. Was it me or was Sam surprized at the fact Timmy ran to Dean; not sure if he thought he would be the one getting the hug. And is it me or is Dean still not telling alot because of Zeke inside of Sam. I mean did Dean seem more closed off then usual or did he just tell his brother enough. And like the actors who played Sonny and young Dean did a good job for watching Supernatural all 5 seasons in a short time span before he had to take on the role. Ok rambling. Still gotta love Jensen man he is good. And you can tell how conflicted he is with putting zeke in sam its like the nightmare that just keeps haunting him and its like he so wants sam to figure out then him having to say anything. But will be heartbreaking and just getting to close. I never mind the brothers fighting its just you got to wonder how this one will go over. OK again babbling sorry.
GwenT
# GwenT 2013-11-21 09:18
Amy, I just love your love for the show. It makes me take another look and appreciate the Sam and Dean story. Thank you!
GwenT
# GwenT 2013-11-21 09:18
Amy, I just love your love for the show. It makes me take another look and appreciate the Sam and Dean story. Thank you!
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-11-21 09:22
Oh the feels! I was so anxious for this episode just because of finally getting some more back story on Dean. I like you Amy, have been in love with Dean since the beginning and yes Sam is right there with us. I found myself blubbering all over again reading your review because as always, you reached deep into the feels just like SPN does week after week.

As for the canon issues, some are so far off base that it does make one wonder if they really watch the show. Some say Dean wanting something else was not true to canon but they are so far off. Even John mentioned in Salvation Season 1 that he "wanted Dean to have a home" so he knew then what Dean wanted. He has always wanted more but keeping Sam safe was his utmost priority "no matter what". As for John pulling a dick move to leave Dean at the boys home. Not a stretch. From personal experience, my oldest son got arrested at 17 drinking and driving (my car no less) and when they called me to come get him at 1:00 a.m. I told them the same thing, "keep him", which of course they wouldn't so bad parenting or not, I understand John's motives for telling the authorities to just keep him. :sad:

Your quote:

"As we head towards what we know is going to be a painful revelation, it was important for us to be reminded who these brothers once were and still are and what they mean to each other and it was important for the brothers to be reminded of this too. “Bad Boys” was an exercise in reconnecting us with what is the spirit of Supernatural, what the brothers represent in each other’s lives and what may be compromised or lost because on a tragic November night, one brother took the other into his arms and has never been able to let go. " :cry:

...man talk about pulling at the heart strings. This is how it all started. This is what Dean is all about. This is why we love this show, love Dean, and love Sam so much. Another great review Amy and thanks for nailing our feels so accurately. :-)
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-11-21 09:22
Oh the feels! I was so anxious for this episode just because of finally getting some more back story on Dean. I like you Amy, have been in love with Dean since the beginning and yes Sam is right there with us. I found myself blubbering all over again reading your review because as always, you reached deep into the feels just like SPN does week after week.

As for the canon issues, some are so far off base that it does make one wonder if they really watch the show. Some say Dean wanting something else was not true to canon but they are so far off. Even John mentioned in Salvation Season 1 that he "wanted Dean to have a home" so he knew then what Dean wanted. He has always wanted more but keeping Sam safe was his utmost priority "no matter what". As for John pulling a dick move to leave Dean at the boys home. Not a stretch. From personal experience, my oldest son got arrested at 17 drinking and driving (my car no less) and when they called me to come get him at 1:00 a.m. I told them the same thing, "keep him", which of course they wouldn't so bad parenting or not, I understand John's motives for telling the authorities to just keep him. :sad:

Your quote:

"As we head towards what we know is going to be a painful revelation, it was important for us to be reminded who these brothers once were and still are and what they mean to each other and it was important for the brothers to be reminded of this too. “Bad Boys” was an exercise in reconnecting us with what is the spirit of Supernatural, what the brothers represent in each other’s lives and what may be compromised or lost because on a tragic November night, one brother took the other into his arms and has never been able to let go. " :cry:

...man talk about pulling at the heart strings. This is how it all started. This is what Dean is all about. This is why we love this show, love Dean, and love Sam so much. Another great review Amy and thanks for nailing our feels so accurately. :-)
SydneyB
# SydneyB 2013-11-21 09:38
Thank you for your wonderful review. I watch the show in exactly the same way as you- with my heart - and I think it's sad for people to spend their time watching and seeing only flaws, plotholes and damaged canon. I give a damn if the timeline is sometimes handled with some generousitiy or if an otherwise great episode get's a tiny part wrong. I love my boys, just as you do, and I can forgive such mistake, because I'm too busy laughing and crying with these two fantastic characters. Again - thanks!
SydneyB
# SydneyB 2013-11-21 09:38
Thank you for your wonderful review. I watch the show in exactly the same way as you- with my heart - and I think it's sad for people to spend their time watching and seeing only flaws, plotholes and damaged canon. I give a damn if the timeline is sometimes handled with some generousitiy or if an otherwise great episode get's a tiny part wrong. I love my boys, just as you do, and I can forgive such mistake, because I'm too busy laughing and crying with these two fantastic characters. Again - thanks!
st50
# st50 2013-11-21 09:39
I'll probably get in trouble for this, but...

Quote:

As for the canon issues, some are so far off base that it does make one wonder if they really watch the show.
I really wish we could all stop making statements like this. (yes, I'm including myself in this). We may not intend it to be as harsh as it reads, but it is.

Surely we can recognize by now that everyone views the show through their own experiences and emotions.

We all "watch the same show", and are free to interpret it as we will.

Debate the interpretation if you want, but there's no need to essentially call one view "off base" simply because you don't see it that way.
st50
# st50 2013-11-21 09:39
I'll probably get in trouble for this, but...

Quote:

As for the canon issues, some are so far off base that it does make one wonder if they really watch the show.
I really wish we could all stop making statements like this. (yes, I'm including myself in this). We may not intend it to be as harsh as it reads, but it is.

Surely we can recognize by now that everyone views the show through their own experiences and emotions.

We all "watch the same show", and are free to interpret it as we will.

Debate the interpretation if you want, but there's no need to essentially call one view "off base" simply because you don't see it that way.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-21 10:14
sweetondean Thanks now I'm crying again!
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-21 10:14
sweetondean Thanks now I'm crying again!
Jenny
# Jenny 2013-11-21 10:14
"I watch this show with my heart; I don’t know how to watch it any other way. I don’t see the minutia other fans see. I’m not interested in unravelling the nitty gritty to find the cracks in the canon or the characterisatio ns. My heart just doesn’t see that stuff. Maybe it’s rose-coloured blindness, or my blind optimism, but to me it’s not worth sacrificing what has become an intrinsic part of the fabric of my being, to look for those things, even when I know others see them. Love is blind I guess and yeah, I love Supernatural."

I feel this exact same way - your entire re-feels-view - was like my brain talking and out came your words. What more can be said except, thank you! I enjoyed reading this so I could get the warm fuzzies all over again. I love supernatural. I love the brothers Winchester.
Jenny
# Jenny 2013-11-21 10:14
"I watch this show with my heart; I don’t know how to watch it any other way. I don’t see the minutia other fans see. I’m not interested in unravelling the nitty gritty to find the cracks in the canon or the characterisatio ns. My heart just doesn’t see that stuff. Maybe it’s rose-coloured blindness, or my blind optimism, but to me it’s not worth sacrificing what has become an intrinsic part of the fabric of my being, to look for those things, even when I know others see them. Love is blind I guess and yeah, I love Supernatural."

I feel this exact same way - your entire re-feels-view - was like my brain talking and out came your words. What more can be said except, thank you! I enjoyed reading this so I could get the warm fuzzies all over again. I love supernatural. I love the brothers Winchester.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-11-21 10:31
thanks for this beautiful review sod, and i can honestly say i watch the show the same exact way. half the time i don't even notice so-called discrepancies in canon, and when i do i laugh at them. i too watch this show with nothing but heart and optimism and i saw this eppy for what it was...a reminder to us, the audience, that sam and dean's bond is as carver had noted in an interview "unshakeable". even though sam is about to learn the truth i know deep in my heart that although he will be hurt and angry, he will understand and forgive. because that's who sam is. sam and dean's love for ea. other is unconditional, and no matter how much they hurt ea. other, in the end they forgive and their relationship strengthens and thrives even more. the way i view this episode, and perhaps it is my unwaivering faith in this show and the brothers' bond, but the way i see this episode, it's the writer's way of reminding us that no matter what, sam and dean's bond will never break. and every time ea. of them hurt the other, it was always based from a place of love. their relationship may be codependent and deemed unhealthy in the real world, but what sam and dean have, the bond they share, is one i could only dream of having with another. it is my very strong opinion that nothing and noone can ever destroy what they have..so the way i see it, we need not worry when sam finds out the truth, because although he will obviously feel hurt and angry, and dean is going to get what he knows he's got coming, sam winchester will never stop loving his brother and he will forgive dean and move on...of this i'm positive, because i have spent 9 years loving sam winchester and he is, by far, the most forgiving character i've ever come across, rose colored glasses or not.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-11-21 10:31
thanks for this beautiful review sod, and i can honestly say i watch the show the same exact way. half the time i don't even notice so-called discrepancies in canon, and when i do i laugh at them. i too watch this show with nothing but heart and optimism and i saw this eppy for what it was...a reminder to us, the audience, that sam and dean's bond is as carver had noted in an interview "unshakeable". even though sam is about to learn the truth i know deep in my heart that although he will be hurt and angry, he will understand and forgive. because that's who sam is. sam and dean's love for ea. other is unconditional, and no matter how much they hurt ea. other, in the end they forgive and their relationship strengthens and thrives even more. the way i view this episode, and perhaps it is my unwaivering faith in this show and the brothers' bond, but the way i see this episode, it's the writer's way of reminding us that no matter what, sam and dean's bond will never break. and every time ea. of them hurt the other, it was always based from a place of love. their relationship may be codependent and deemed unhealthy in the real world, but what sam and dean have, the bond they share, is one i could only dream of having with another. it is my very strong opinion that nothing and noone can ever destroy what they have..so the way i see it, we need not worry when sam finds out the truth, because although he will obviously feel hurt and angry, and dean is going to get what he knows he's got coming, sam winchester will never stop loving his brother and he will forgive dean and move on...of this i'm positive, because i have spent 9 years loving sam winchester and he is, by far, the most forgiving character i've ever come across, rose colored glasses or not.
Dragonfli
# Dragonfli 2013-11-21 10:55
I always love your reviews because you view Supernatural in the same way I do. I was crying right along with you when Dean looked out to see Sam waiting outside. When the smile broke over his face I knew I was done for!
Thank you for the wonderful cascade of feels!
Dragonfli
# Dragonfli 2013-11-21 10:55
I always love your reviews because you view Supernatural in the same way I do. I was crying right along with you when Dean looked out to see Sam waiting outside. When the smile broke over his face I knew I was done for!
Thank you for the wonderful cascade of feels!
winmomwannabe
# winmomwannabe 2013-11-21 11:04
Simply a beautiful, moving and spot on review for me. I won't rewrite comments I wrote on another thread so will just repeat one thing. I LOVED EVERY SECOND of this epi. You captured the essence of this ep and show perfectly for me.

I watch this show as you do because seriously, why would I watch a 'TV show' to pick it apart? It's entertainment. But as we all know, this show is much more than that. I feel sorry for fans who get so upset with things. Just seems pointless to me to watch a show that would do that to oneself.

I too watch with my heart. My 'mama' heart to be exact. And that scene when young Dean saw Sammy in the car cracked it through and through. I was watching the ep alone and I believe I said out loud "Oh Dean, you have given up so much because of your love for Sammy."

And then when Sam told Dean thank you. What was left of my 'mama' heart just exploded! Out loud again "Oh Sammy you know, you know, and Dean why can't you say it!!!!!??"

Okay, enough. You rock Amy. Thanks again.
winmomwannabe
# winmomwannabe 2013-11-21 11:04
Simply a beautiful, moving and spot on review for me. I won't rewrite comments I wrote on another thread so will just repeat one thing. I LOVED EVERY SECOND of this epi. You captured the essence of this ep and show perfectly for me.

I watch this show as you do because seriously, why would I watch a 'TV show' to pick it apart? It's entertainment. But as we all know, this show is much more than that. I feel sorry for fans who get so upset with things. Just seems pointless to me to watch a show that would do that to oneself.

I too watch with my heart. My 'mama' heart to be exact. And that scene when young Dean saw Sammy in the car cracked it through and through. I was watching the ep alone and I believe I said out loud "Oh Dean, you have given up so much because of your love for Sammy."

And then when Sam told Dean thank you. What was left of my 'mama' heart just exploded! Out loud again "Oh Sammy you know, you know, and Dean why can't you say it!!!!!??"

Okay, enough. You rock Amy. Thanks again.
DeanColt45
# DeanColt45 2013-11-21 11:15
You keep saying everything I'm thinking practically word for word. And now I'm crying again.
DeanColt45
# DeanColt45 2013-11-21 11:15
You keep saying everything I'm thinking practically word for word. And now I'm crying again.
Clarice 0909
# Clarice 0909 2013-11-21 11:36
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you
I just can't thank you enough...
Everything... Every single word you wrote...
You just put into words my feelings for this episode..
Sorry for those who overanalized or didn't like
In my personal opinion.. it is just perfect..
Loved, loved every single moment...

Tks again..

Cla;}
Clarice 0909
# Clarice 0909 2013-11-21 11:36
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you
I just can't thank you enough...
Everything... Every single word you wrote...
You just put into words my feelings for this episode..
Sorry for those who overanalized or didn't like
In my personal opinion.. it is just perfect..
Loved, loved every single moment...

Tks again..

Cla;}
hlnkid
# hlnkid 2013-11-21 12:30
***“Bad Boys” was the boiled down essence of everything I fell in love with when it came to Supernatural***

Amen, Sister! :) I've never been so in love with a show as with SPN. No matter the flaws or the sometimes inconsistencies ...doesn't matter to me. It's all about the brothers, always will be and Bad Boys let so many of us remember why we fell in so hard for this show. It drags us down and then lifts us back up again time after time.
hlnkid
# hlnkid 2013-11-21 12:30
***“Bad Boys” was the boiled down essence of everything I fell in love with when it came to Supernatural***

Amen, Sister! :) I've never been so in love with a show as with SPN. No matter the flaws or the sometimes inconsistencies ...doesn't matter to me. It's all about the brothers, always will be and Bad Boys let so many of us remember why we fell in so hard for this show. It drags us down and then lifts us back up again time after time.
leah d.
# leah d. 2013-11-21 12:49
Yes.
leah d.
# leah d. 2013-11-21 12:49
Yes.
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2013-11-21 13:17
Thank You,Sweetondean ! For writing what I feel about this show. I try to watch every episode the same way. For the "Feels".

I have never been a stickler for the mythology because for me ,it's just the vehice used to tell the story of these two guys and their relationship.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what the ongoing plot is or what those details are, I just know their love and devotion to each other will overcome whatever it is.

It's not that I don't notice details. I do. But I don't care if the Rugaru knowledge came now or later, whether or not Dean and Sam ever visited the grand Canyon or that the Reapers are not acting right. Why? Because that's not the point of the story.

The point of the story is and always will be The Brothers.
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2013-11-21 13:17
Thank You,Sweetondean ! For writing what I feel about this show. I try to watch every episode the same way. For the "Feels".

I have never been a stickler for the mythology because for me ,it's just the vehice used to tell the story of these two guys and their relationship.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what the ongoing plot is or what those details are, I just know their love and devotion to each other will overcome whatever it is.

It's not that I don't notice details. I do. But I don't care if the Rugaru knowledge came now or later, whether or not Dean and Sam ever visited the grand Canyon or that the Reapers are not acting right. Why? Because that's not the point of the story.

The point of the story is and always will be The Brothers.
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2013-11-21 13:29
#22nappi815: You nearly brought me to tears. This is excactly it!

I don't feel upset or dread at the prosepct of their future words to each other because I know not even Zeke could tear them apart.

I feel like the first part of this season has been spent reminding us of what these two mean to each other, why we watch this show and a reassurance to us that no matter what gets said or done between them, their relationship is unassailable.
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2013-11-21 13:29
#22nappi815: You nearly brought me to tears. This is excactly it!

I don't feel upset or dread at the prosepct of their future words to each other because I know not even Zeke could tear them apart.

I feel like the first part of this season has been spent reminding us of what these two mean to each other, why we watch this show and a reassurance to us that no matter what gets said or done between them, their relationship is unassailable.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-11-21 14:35
The feels are not the point or really the issue . And there is nothing wrong in watching with your heart but sometimes there is a bigger picture.

Right now where we are with what has been done to Sam , the implications , the consent issues , we have a episode that reminds both Sam and the audience what Dean has done or given up for Sam . We have a situation where Ezekiel will come to ahead , and we have no focus on Sam but Dean.


The reason some have a problem is the placement of this episode not the episode it self. If it was balanced out with a Sam perspective episode then that would be different but as it stands we are going in to Sam learning about Ezekiel with Dean feels . We have not had one Sam-centric episode leading up to this and it is this out of balance that has caused some concern.

I wanted to get that across because it is not people being funny or unfair about the episode.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-11-21 14:35
The feels are not the point or really the issue . And there is nothing wrong in watching with your heart but sometimes there is a bigger picture.

Right now where we are with what has been done to Sam , the implications , the consent issues , we have a episode that reminds both Sam and the audience what Dean has done or given up for Sam . We have a situation where Ezekiel will come to ahead , and we have no focus on Sam but Dean.


The reason some have a problem is the placement of this episode not the episode it self. If it was balanced out with a Sam perspective episode then that would be different but as it stands we are going in to Sam learning about Ezekiel with Dean feels . We have not had one Sam-centric episode leading up to this and it is this out of balance that has caused some concern.

I wanted to get that across because it is not people being funny or unfair about the episode.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-21 14:47
#19 st50 I think that should include the writers. They also watch the show, love the show and have their own interpretation of the show. I don't think their intention is to piss of the fanbase. Some of their episodes might be more of a miss than a hit but I really think they are trying to put out a product that is entertaining for everyone.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-21 14:47
#19 st50 I think that should include the writers. They also watch the show, love the show and have their own interpretation of the show. I don't think their intention is to piss of the fanbase. Some of their episodes might be more of a miss than a hit but I really think they are trying to put out a product that is entertaining for everyone.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-21 14:57
Quoting Sharon:
The feels are not the point or really the issue . And there is nothing wrong in watching with your heart but sometimes there is a bigger picture..


But to me, the feels are the point. And I'm aware of the bigger picture, it's just not the same bigger picture as you see. That doesn't make it wrong or not the point. it makes it mine.

Watching from my heart does not invalidate my opinion or my view of or realtionship with this show, just as analysis of what some see as issues doesn't invalidate their relationship with the show.

As I said, we all see Supernatural differently and see in it different things. We all look at it from our own perspective...

I obviously see this show in a different way to you and that's cool and part of the fun of being a diverse grpup of people, but it doesn't make my feelings not the point....
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-21 14:57
Quote:
The feels are not the point or really the issue . And there is nothing wrong in watching with your heart but sometimes there is a bigger picture..
But to me, the feels are the point. And I'm aware of the bigger picture, it's just not the same bigger picture as you see. That doesn't make it wrong or not the point. it makes it mine.

Watching from my heart does not invalidate my opinion or my view of or realtionship with this show, just as analysis of what some see as issues doesn't invalidate their relationship with the show.

As I said, we all see Supernatural differently and see in it different things. We all look at it from our own perspective...

I obviously see this show in a different way to you and that's cool and part of the fun of being a diverse grpup of people, but it doesn't make my feelings not the point....
Joyful
# Joyful 2013-11-21 15:21
Bravo Amy, bravo!! Yes, this episode was full of what we love about Supernatural (those of us anyway, who haven't decided that a younger and cuter 'pup' is much more interesting than the elegance and beauty of the more mature 'dog', with all it's perceived faults). Episodes like this indeed take me back to thoughts of sadness about what these boys went through, but also how great it is that they went through those desperate and hard times together (and will continue to do so). That is certainly the heart and soul of this show, and brings me back year after year when other shows fall by the wayside as they just don't compare! Thanks again, great review, GREAT feels... that's what we look forward to in your reviews! :lol:
Joyful
# Joyful 2013-11-21 15:21
Bravo Amy, bravo!! Yes, this episode was full of what we love about Supernatural (those of us anyway, who haven't decided that a younger and cuter 'pup' is much more interesting than the elegance and beauty of the more mature 'dog', with all it's perceived faults). Episodes like this indeed take me back to thoughts of sadness about what these boys went through, but also how great it is that they went through those desperate and hard times together (and will continue to do so). That is certainly the heart and soul of this show, and brings me back year after year when other shows fall by the wayside as they just don't compare! Thanks again, great review, GREAT feels... that's what we look forward to in your reviews! :lol:
KimJ
# KimJ 2013-11-21 15:33
I'm with you in not caring about the minutae. I can usually find a way to justify what others see as nitpicks when I get into discussion, but when watching I simply enjoy.

This episode was full of feels, and I can totally see how this experience helped build Dean's character and helped shape himinto the man he became.

The actor who played young Dean did a fabulous job. It was a great simple haunting job. It had all the hallmarks of the early years and we saw the brothers at their best.

This ep has special meaning because I was there filming of the scenes in the restaurant and the walk out to the car where Sam asks Dean who the waitress was. Right before Jared came over, gave us all a bottle of water and chatted with us.

The graveyard scene was fascinating, especially considering it was filmed in the back corner of the restaurant parking lot, up on a raised platform so the could shoot from underneath. I'd always wondered exactly how they did that and having Kevin Parks explain that was just fabulous.

The only thing Inwas disappointed in was Kuma, Kevin's dog, had his cameo cut.
KimJ
# KimJ 2013-11-21 15:33
I'm with you in not caring about the minutae. I can usually find a way to justify what others see as nitpicks when I get into discussion, but when watching I simply enjoy.

This episode was full of feels, and I can totally see how this experience helped build Dean's character and helped shape himinto the man he became.

The actor who played young Dean did a fabulous job. It was a great simple haunting job. It had all the hallmarks of the early years and we saw the brothers at their best.

This ep has special meaning because I was there filming of the scenes in the restaurant and the walk out to the car where Sam asks Dean who the waitress was. Right before Jared came over, gave us all a bottle of water and chatted with us.

The graveyard scene was fascinating, especially considering it was filmed in the back corner of the restaurant parking lot, up on a raised platform so the could shoot from underneath. I'd always wondered exactly how they did that and having Kevin Parks explain that was just fabulous.

The only thing Inwas disappointed in was Kuma, Kevin's dog, had his cameo cut.
digyd
# digyd 2013-11-21 15:59
My emotions were time-delayed.I was too busy being excited the first watch to let anything wash over me. But the second time I zoomed in on S&D and oh boy, I got so happy for Dean having this time that was truly HIS and this "family" that was ready to take him in for good - and who wouldn't? By the third watch I focused more on Sam and loved how he appreciated this life Dean had and then I was done. Sold on this ep that at first didn't have me jumping out of my seat like past eps have. This - as I have said on Twitter - was a tootsie roll lollipop with this hard, sweet outside and soft inside you can really chew on - oh so like Dean - and I just wanna hug this show.

And I am also going to say this did NOT make me hate John in any way because I have always felt the man was doing the best he could and failed in too many ways. But he loved them and darn it, even Dean to this day can find peace with him (Sam too), why on Earth can't I? So I do. I have loved John all this time and like Amy said, for all we know he left Dean there to give him some consistency for a bit. We can't know so I do not judge. Just love, love, love them all and this show and Adam for writing it and tonight I shall watch again.
digyd
# digyd 2013-11-21 15:59
My emotions were time-delayed.I was too busy being excited the first watch to let anything wash over me. But the second time I zoomed in on S&D and oh boy, I got so happy for Dean having this time that was truly HIS and this "family" that was ready to take him in for good - and who wouldn't? By the third watch I focused more on Sam and loved how he appreciated this life Dean had and then I was done. Sold on this ep that at first didn't have me jumping out of my seat like past eps have. This - as I have said on Twitter - was a tootsie roll lollipop with this hard, sweet outside and soft inside you can really chew on - oh so like Dean - and I just wanna hug this show.

And I am also going to say this did NOT make me hate John in any way because I have always felt the man was doing the best he could and failed in too many ways. But he loved them and darn it, even Dean to this day can find peace with him (Sam too), why on Earth can't I? So I do. I have loved John all this time and like Amy said, for all we know he left Dean there to give him some consistency for a bit. We can't know so I do not judge. Just love, love, love them all and this show and Adam for writing it and tonight I shall watch again.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-11-21 16:43
Quoting sweetondean:
Quoting Sharon:
The feels are not the point or really the issue . And there is nothing wrong in watching with your heart but sometimes there is a bigger picture..


But to me, the feels are the point. And I'm aware of the bigger picture, it's just not the same bigger picture as you see. That doesn't make it wrong or not the point. it makes it mine.

Watching from my heart does not invalidate my opinion or my view of or realtionship with this show, just as analysis of what some see as issues doesn't invalidate their relationship with the show.

As I said, we all see Supernatural differently and see in it different things. We all look at it from our own perspective...

I obviously see this show in a different way to you and that's cool and part of the fun of being a diverse grpup of people, but it doesn't make my feelings not the point....

With due respect who ever said the way you see it as invalid . Do not jump on me next time when I put in a valid post ..

And my post had nothing to do with issues in their relationship but how we are going into this situation with Ezekiel and that is a valid point. Because if you can honestly tell me we are getting Sam insight and his pov leading up to this then you can ignore what I have said Amy and then think you have the right to get angry at me because I do not see the feels you do.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-11-21 16:43
Quote:
Quote:
The feels are not the point or really the issue . And there is nothing wrong in watching with your heart but sometimes there is a bigger picture..
But to me, the feels are the point. And I'm aware of the bigger picture, it's just not the same bigger picture as you see. That doesn't make it wrong or not the point. it makes it mine.

Watching from my heart does not invalidate my opinion or my view of or realtionship with this show, just as analysis of what some see as issues doesn't invalidate their relationship with the show.

As I said, we all see Supernatural differently and see in it different things. We all look at it from our own perspective...

I obviously see this show in a different way to you and that's cool and part of the fun of being a diverse grpup of people, but it doesn't make my feelings not the point....
With due respect who ever said the way you see it as invalid . Do not jump on me next time when I put in a valid post ..

And my post had nothing to do with issues in their relationship but how we are going into this situation with Ezekiel and that is a valid point. Because if you can honestly tell me we are getting Sam insight and his pov leading up to this then you can ignore what I have said Amy and then think you have the right to get angry at me because I do not see the feels you do.
alice
# alice 2013-11-21 16:55
Aww man, I just had to diffuse a powderkeg on my review thread. Now tempers at flaring here too?

You know Sharon, sweetondean is an admin here. You might not want to pick a fight with an admin who can edit your posts.

Please simmer down. You're putting words in sweetondean's mouth. I don't see her post as jumping on you.

I really think I'm going to pick up some wine after work...
Alice
# Alice 2013-11-21 16:55
Aww man, I just had to diffuse a powderkeg on my review thread. Now tempers at flaring here too?

You know Sharon, sweetondean is an admin here. You might not want to pick a fight with an admin who can edit your posts.

Please simmer down. You're putting words in sweetondean's mouth. I don't see her post as jumping on you.

I really think I'm going to pick up some wine after work...
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-11-21 17:12
Quoting alice:
Aww man, I just had to diffuse a powderkeg on my review thread. Now tempers at flaring here too?

You know Sharon, sweetondean is an admin here. You might not want to pick a fight with an admin who can edit your posts.

Please simmer down. You're putting words in sweetondean's mouth. I don't see her post as jumping on you.

I really think I'm going to pick up some wine after work...

I am sorry about that Alice , however admin or not she is still a poster here and a person to me . I am not seeking a fight but neither do I just accept and roll over. It was a honest post and I am not a child it is all just opinions and my thoughts were never about anybodys personal feelings.

But knowing what I am like and that I do not tend to walk away I shall refrain from posting on her threads in the future .
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-11-21 17:12
Quote:
Aww man, I just had to diffuse a powderkeg on my review thread. Now tempers at flaring here too?

You know Sharon, sweetondean is an admin here. You might not want to pick a fight with an admin who can edit your posts.

Please simmer down. You're putting words in sweetondean's mouth. I don't see her post as jumping on you.

I really think I'm going to pick up some wine after work...
I am sorry about that Alice , however admin or not she is still a poster here and a person to me . I am not seeking a fight but neither do I just accept and roll over. It was a honest post and I am not a child it is all just opinions and my thoughts were never about anybodys personal feelings.

But knowing what I am like and that I do not tend to walk away I shall refrain from posting on her threads in the future .
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-21 18:00
Thank you Alice, I was at pains to say that everyone sees the show differently as I always am, hell you and I see the show differently! But for me saying the feels are not the point when I have written a piece that primarily says that is the way I see the show and implying that watching with my heart in someway is not allowing me to see the big picture is not cool in my eyes.

If that's not how it was intended, then I stand corrected.

I do understand that everyone brings to and takes from this show a whole variety of things. I value that and the discussion that it starts. I'm just stating my opinion, because that's all I can do.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-21 18:00
Thank you Alice, I was at pains to say that everyone sees the show differently as I always am, hell you and I see the show differently! But for me saying the feels are not the point when I have written a piece that primarily says that is the way I see the show and implying that watching with my heart in someway is not allowing me to see the big picture is not cool in my eyes.

If that's not how it was intended, then I stand corrected.

I do understand that everyone brings to and takes from this show a whole variety of things. I value that and the discussion that it starts. I'm just stating my opinion, because that's all I can do.
Manstrad
# Manstrad 2013-11-21 19:45
Oh Sweetie!!! you are the only writer who really lights up a review. Lately I just see negativity, bitter rants, looking up for little things and making it look big and important, missing the big picture which is enjoying and hour of good TV. I just don't look at those reviews anymore. I know, I know... bitter will see bitter, angry will see angry, nice will see nice and sometimes one have to know how others think, but as I said, lately I just see the same critiques over and over and the funny thing is nobody is right or wrong. So, I just keep watching my favorite brothers like a mother will see her kids.
Just keep writing the way you do, keep watching the way you watch, you are not alone even if it looks like it is. You don't need to create controversy to have followers (like other blogs), you don't need to be sorry to write "reviews with feelings" the way you do, don't get drag into the spiraling of complaints and demands they only will bring you down and we don't want that because, we want you to keep on writing like you do, with your heart!!! I always read your posts and I'm always very grateful for that.
Manstrad
# Manstrad 2013-11-21 19:45
Oh Sweetie!!! you are the only writer who really lights up a review. Lately I just see negativity, bitter rants, looking up for little things and making it look big and important, missing the big picture which is enjoying and hour of good TV. I just don't look at those reviews anymore. I know, I know... bitter will see bitter, angry will see angry, nice will see nice and sometimes one have to know how others think, but as I said, lately I just see the same critiques over and over and the funny thing is nobody is right or wrong. So, I just keep watching my favorite brothers like a mother will see her kids.
Just keep writing the way you do, keep watching the way you watch, you are not alone even if it looks like it is. You don't need to create controversy to have followers (like other blogs), you don't need to be sorry to write "reviews with feelings" the way you do, don't get drag into the spiraling of complaints and demands they only will bring you down and we don't want that because, we want you to keep on writing like you do, with your heart!!! I always read your posts and I'm always very grateful for that.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-11-21 21:03
i agree with manstrad. yours and far away eyes are the only reviews i read because both of you are nothing but positive all the time. you both always see the silver lining and you alway remind everyone why we love this show so much. in this ever raging sea of negativity, you both are truly the lifeboats and don't think for one moment that that goes unnoticed and isn't appreciated by so many of us. never lose that ;-)

watching this show religiously for the last going on nine years, here's a few facts i learned along the way.
1. there's always going to be complaints because you can't please everyone every time.
2. since the start, but more so in s2, the first half of the season has dean centric episodes, while the second half of the season has sam centric episodes, but throughout the season it's always been about both brothers.
3. for the last 9 yrs, the formula for supernatural has been the same...the first half of the season builds up to the second half of the season which mostly focuses on the myth arc. show has always had motw eps mixed in there. it's been the same way for years and years so i guess i'll never really understand why people complain about the rate at which the story is told given that we pretty much always know when the proverbial s**t hits the fan....i guess it goes back to #1..people complain. :P

that being said, i think i have to disagree with the opinions that the stand alone eps don't really tie into the myth arc storyline and that the episodes haven't moved the story forward. i personally think every episode has moved the story forward and relates to the big myth arc. is the belief that because the last couple of eps didn't have zeke make an appearance it means that sam is being put aside? i guess i don't see it that way at all. the way i see it, the lack of zeke means that sam doesn't need him for every little thing. sam is getting stronger; he's healing. i think that totally ties into the myth arc. when dean finally tells sam the truth, it may end up sam has to decide whether to evict zeke or not...will he do it if he's not entirely healed? is he strong enough? not seeing zeke, having sam handle things on his own, is an important factor in what might be a very difficult decision he may have to make.
as was stated in another post, every episode has focused on the brother's bond. this very much ties in with the myth arc. it's the strength of their bond that we have been reminded of in ea. episode that will enable us, the fandom, to understand and easily accept sam's inevitable forgiveness and understanding of dean's actions. no matter what, their bond is unshakeable, their love unconditional, and we've been reminded of this throughout the first half of this season and no offense to anyone who's opinions differ, but imho it's never redundant. for me, it's the best damn part of this show.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-11-21 21:03
i agree with manstrad. yours and far away eyes are the only reviews i read because both of you are nothing but positive all the time. you both always see the silver lining and you alway remind everyone why we love this show so much. in this ever raging sea of negativity, you both are truly the lifeboats and don't think for one moment that that goes unnoticed and isn't appreciated by so many of us. never lose that ;-)

watching this show religiously for the last going on nine years, here's a few facts i learned along the way.
1. there's always going to be complaints because you can't please everyone every time.
2. since the start, but more so in s2, the first half of the season has dean centric episodes, while the second half of the season has sam centric episodes, but throughout the season it's always been about both brothers.
3. for the last 9 yrs, the formula for supernatural has been the same...the first half of the season builds up to the second half of the season which mostly focuses on the myth arc. show has always had motw eps mixed in there. it's been the same way for years and years so i guess i'll never really understand why people complain about the rate at which the story is told given that we pretty much always know when the proverbial s**t hits the fan....i guess it goes back to #1..people complain. :P

that being said, i think i have to disagree with the opinions that the stand alone eps don't really tie into the myth arc storyline and that the episodes haven't moved the story forward. i personally think every episode has moved the story forward and relates to the big myth arc. is the belief that because the last couple of eps didn't have zeke make an appearance it means that sam is being put aside? i guess i don't see it that way at all. the way i see it, the lack of zeke means that sam doesn't need him for every little thing. sam is getting stronger; he's healing. i think that totally ties into the myth arc. when dean finally tells sam the truth, it may end up sam has to decide whether to evict zeke or not...will he do it if he's not entirely healed? is he strong enough? not seeing zeke, having sam handle things on his own, is an important factor in what might be a very difficult decision he may have to make.
as was stated in another post, every episode has focused on the brother's bond. this very much ties in with the myth arc. it's the strength of their bond that we have been reminded of in ea. episode that will enable us, the fandom, to understand and easily accept sam's inevitable forgiveness and understanding of dean's actions. no matter what, their bond is unshakeable, their love unconditional, and we've been reminded of this throughout the first half of this season and no offense to anyone who's opinions differ, but imho it's never redundant. for me, it's the best damn part of this show.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-21 21:20
#42 nappi815 Thank you! I was trying to put those thoughts onto another review and I couldn't come up with the right way to say it. You stated it perfectly.
Sweetondean your reviews are by far my favorite. You always make me cry/laugh/feel. And you are always respectful to everyone.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2013-11-21 21:20
#42 nappi815 Thank you! I was trying to put those thoughts onto another review and I couldn't come up with the right way to say it. You stated it perfectly.
Sweetondean your reviews are by far my favorite. You always make me cry/laugh/feel. And you are always respectful to everyone.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-21 21:27
Quoting nappi815:
as was stated in another post, every episode has focused on the brother's bond. this very much ties in with the myth arc. it's the strength of their bond that we have been reminded of in ea. episode that will enable us, the fandom, to understand and easily accept sam's inevitable forgiveness and understanding of dean's actions. no matter what, their bond is unshakeable, their love unconditional, and we've been reminded of this throughout the first half of this season


This is exactly what I see the show as doing. That old school vibe we all keep talking about? It's happening for a reason and episodes like this are vital for the brothers and for us to reinforce what the brother's bond means to us and to them and always will no matter what comes. It's the heart of this show. :roll:
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-21 21:27
Quote:
as was stated in another post, every episode has focused on the brother's bond. this very much ties in with the myth arc. it's the strength of their bond that we have been reminded of in ea. episode that will enable us, the fandom, to understand and easily accept sam's inevitable forgiveness and understanding of dean's actions. no matter what, their bond is unshakeable, their love unconditional, and we've been reminded of this throughout the first half of this season
This is exactly what I see the show as doing. That old school vibe we all keep talking about? It's happening for a reason and episodes like this are vital for the brothers and for us to reinforce what the brother's bond means to us and to them and always will no matter what comes. It's the heart of this show. :roll:
Nate
# Nate 2013-11-22 08:07
My dad was a Hockey coach for 10+ years. I played on his team for a few of those years. Several years later, as we were watching a random game together, he told me the only bad part about being a Hockey coach is you never look at a game the same way. You almost lose the fun of watching. Rather than sit back and watch slap-shots, good Goalie saves, or hold your breath during a penalty kill, he explained he is analyzing every play set-up, thinking what the team is doing right or wrong, picturing himself as the coach of this team, and what he would do differently. The game is not the same, he looks at the game now in a different way, and he misses the love.
I want to send him @sweetondean’s review, because replace “hockey” with “show” and he would find his missing love.
Sweetondean, thank you for this incredible review. It’s really a love letter, written by someone who was (again) shot by Cupid’s arrow, and is so full of love you can hardly contain yourself! Every letter, every word comes directly from your heart. Your words and passion moved me. I watch this show with my heart too, you reminded me of that. I’m willing to overlook canon issues here and there, because the essence of the show is always there, Sam and Dean and their bond. I want to continue to watch the show like my dad used to watch hockey, and how maybe he will again someday.
Nate
# Nate 2013-11-22 08:07
My dad was a Hockey coach for 10+ years. I played on his team for a few of those years. Several years later, as we were watching a random game together, he told me the only bad part about being a Hockey coach is you never look at a game the same way. You almost lose the fun of watching. Rather than sit back and watch slap-shots, good Goalie saves, or hold your breath during a penalty kill, he explained he is analyzing every play set-up, thinking what the team is doing right or wrong, picturing himself as the coach of this team, and what he would do differently. The game is not the same, he looks at the game now in a different way, and he misses the love.
I want to send him @sweetondean’s review, because replace “hockey” with “show” and he would find his missing love.
Sweetondean, thank you for this incredible review. It’s really a love letter, written by someone who was (again) shot by Cupid’s arrow, and is so full of love you can hardly contain yourself! Every letter, every word comes directly from your heart. Your words and passion moved me. I watch this show with my heart too, you reminded me of that. I’m willing to overlook canon issues here and there, because the essence of the show is always there, Sam and Dean and their bond. I want to continue to watch the show like my dad used to watch hockey, and how maybe he will again someday.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-11-22 08:49
Aww Amy you should have been prepared with the Kleenex!! Carver did say this season must have the feels!!

I am so glad you enjoyed it! Haven't watched it yet, but I am so definitely going to bookmark for future reference when I need to see that indefinable something the brothers have for each other.

I have always said that Dean is about family, and he loves his brother down to his very last atom! So rescuing him the way he did this season is a no brainer to me, angel possession or no! It is still a better choice than to have the writers let him not even attempt anything (yes I am referring to Sam's not looking last season). I am just hoping against hope that this all turns out good in the end. We have been through so much with these brothers, and no matter how much Dean has had to sacrifice, he himself has thought it has been worth it (I can see in my minds eye, his face when he sees young Sam in the car, just took one look at his brother and his world was back in sync), so I really REALLY want him to be rewarded with this very risky decision to let an angel possess his brother
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-11-22 08:49
Aww Amy you should have been prepared with the Kleenex!! Carver did say this season must have the feels!!

I am so glad you enjoyed it! Haven't watched it yet, but I am so definitely going to bookmark for future reference when I need to see that indefinable something the brothers have for each other.

I have always said that Dean is about family, and he loves his brother down to his very last atom! So rescuing him the way he did this season is a no brainer to me, angel possession or no! It is still a better choice than to have the writers let him not even attempt anything (yes I am referring to Sam's not looking last season). I am just hoping against hope that this all turns out good in the end. We have been through so much with these brothers, and no matter how much Dean has had to sacrifice, he himself has thought it has been worth it (I can see in my minds eye, his face when he sees young Sam in the car, just took one look at his brother and his world was back in sync), so I really REALLY want him to be rewarded with this very risky decision to let an angel possess his brother
Ale
# Ale 2013-11-22 09:07
Quoting Nate:
My dad was a Hockey coach for 10+ years. I played on his team for a few of those years. Several years later, as we were watching a random game together, he told me the only bad part about being a Hockey coach is you never look at a game the same way. You almost lose the fun of watching. Rather than sit back and watch slap-shots, good Goalie saves, or hold your breath during a penalty kill, he explained he is analyzing every play set-up, thinking what the team is doing right or wrong, picturing himself as the coach of this team, and what he would do differently. The game is not the same, he looks at the game now in a different way, and he misses the love.
I want to send him @sweetondean’s review, because replace “hockey” with “show” and he would find his missing love.
Sweetondean, thank you for this incredible review. It’s really a love letter, written by someone who was (again) shot by Cupid’s arrow, and is so full of love you can hardly contain yourself! Every letter, every word comes directly from your heart. Your words and passion moved me. I watch this show with my heart too, you reminded me of that. I’m willing to overlook canon issues here and there, because the essence of the show is always there, Sam and Dean and their bond. I want to continue to watch the show like my dad used to watch hockey, and how maybe he will again someday.


Amazing, Nate! Great analogy!
Ale
# Ale 2013-11-22 09:07
Quote:
My dad was a Hockey coach for 10+ years. I played on his team for a few of those years. Several years later, as we were watching a random game together, he told me the only bad part about being a Hockey coach is you never look at a game the same way. You almost lose the fun of watching. Rather than sit back and watch slap-shots, good Goalie saves, or hold your breath during a penalty kill, he explained he is analyzing every play set-up, thinking what the team is doing right or wrong, picturing himself as the coach of this team, and what he would do differently. The game is not the same, he looks at the game now in a different way, and he misses the love.
I want to send him @sweetondean’s review, because replace “hockey” with “show” and he would find his missing love.
Sweetondean, thank you for this incredible review. It’s really a love letter, written by someone who was (again) shot by Cupid’s arrow, and is so full of love you can hardly contain yourself! Every letter, every word comes directly from your heart. Your words and passion moved me. I watch this show with my heart too, you reminded me of that. I’m willing to overlook canon issues here and there, because the essence of the show is always there, Sam and Dean and their bond. I want to continue to watch the show like my dad used to watch hockey, and how maybe he will again someday.
Amazing, Nate! Great analogy!
st50
# st50 2013-11-22 09:27
#45 -
Sorry, Nate. This just doesn't work for me.

We're not coaches for the show. Those would be the producers, writers, directors, and even the actors. THEY have to know all the mechanics of putting forth a 'good game'.

We are, and always have been, the spectators.

Now, to work with your sports analogy: I started watching a lot of sports with my husband. Initially, I enjoyed the athletes kicking balls, shooting the puck, driving the cars - whatever. It was fun, and I enjoyed cheering with the others in the stadiums, and I really enjoyed it when my team won the game. But I wasn't INVESTED.
It wasn't until my husband started explaining the reasons behind the plays, the strategies, the skills behind making those shots, driving those cars, that I could watch and understand those really great moves/shots/goa ls, that I really found that I CARED how those teams were doing.

My growing knowledge and understanding of the rules, and the effort and skill - even the history of the games- has made it much more meaningful to me. I'm not on the field, but I am an invested and involved spectator.

I'm not saying you have to analyze every play to be a good fan, or that every fan should research the game. I am saying - for me - analyzing a lot of it... understanding the motivations and the reasons behind the plays has made a big difference. I am more invested in my team, appreciate the individual talents more, and cheer more loudly for what they do.

And I'm more disappointed when silly mistakes make them lose the game.
st50
# st50 2013-11-22 09:27
#45 -
Sorry, Nate. This just doesn't work for me.

We're not coaches for the show. Those would be the producers, writers, directors, and even the actors. THEY have to know all the mechanics of putting forth a 'good game'.

We are, and always have been, the spectators.

Now, to work with your sports analogy: I started watching a lot of sports with my husband. Initially, I enjoyed the athletes kicking balls, shooting the puck, driving the cars - whatever. It was fun, and I enjoyed cheering with the others in the stadiums, and I really enjoyed it when my team won the game. But I wasn't INVESTED.
It wasn't until my husband started explaining the reasons behind the plays, the strategies, the skills behind making those shots, driving those cars, that I could watch and understand those really great moves/shots/goa ls, that I really found that I CARED how those teams were doing.

My growing knowledge and understanding of the rules, and the effort and skill - even the history of the games- has made it much more meaningful to me. I'm not on the field, but I am an invested and involved spectator.

I'm not saying you have to analyze every play to be a good fan, or that every fan should research the game. I am saying - for me - analyzing a lot of it... understanding the motivations and the reasons behind the plays has made a big difference. I am more invested in my team, appreciate the individual talents more, and cheer more loudly for what they do.

And I'm more disappointed when silly mistakes make them lose the game.
Bevie
# Bevie 2013-11-22 10:19
You are the antidote to the nausea generated by a lot of the negative posts I've been reading on here the last few days, even though I do my best to try and avoid them.

How you felt about this episode is how I felt about it. How you love the brothers and their co-dependent love for each other is how I love them. Thank you so much.

This is the reason I watch. This is what hooked me on this show and no other show. This is what will keep me until the very last episode.

Someone said, can't remember where I read it, that Sam didn't need to appear at all in this episode. I couldn't believe they could think that! That was the whole point of it. Showing how the brothers are together no matter what, and looming ahead of the great reveal that Sam may take the wrong way. Will Sammy think back on all Dean has given up for him and perhaps, hopefully, sooner than later I hope, forgive him and understand why he did what he did to save his life?

Some watch this show with an altogether different agenda and perception that you and I have. It's their right to do so, but some of them seem to really want to bring down the ones who are enjoying and not continually nit-picking. I had a friend once who never ever enjoyed anything, but continually nit-picked and criticized and really was a very unhappy person. Movies, books, TV, gifts she was given, advice she was given, people she worked with --- everything! We are no longer close friends but I've heard she is still extremely unhappy. So sad!

Thanks again sweetondean, and just so you know, I also am sweet on dean! :P ;-)
Bevie
# Bevie 2013-11-22 10:19
You are the antidote to the nausea generated by a lot of the negative posts I've been reading on here the last few days, even though I do my best to try and avoid them.

How you felt about this episode is how I felt about it. How you love the brothers and their co-dependent love for each other is how I love them. Thank you so much.

This is the reason I watch. This is what hooked me on this show and no other show. This is what will keep me until the very last episode.

Someone said, can't remember where I read it, that Sam didn't need to appear at all in this episode. I couldn't believe they could think that! That was the whole point of it. Showing how the brothers are together no matter what, and looming ahead of the great reveal that Sam may take the wrong way. Will Sammy think back on all Dean has given up for him and perhaps, hopefully, sooner than later I hope, forgive him and understand why he did what he did to save his life?

Some watch this show with an altogether different agenda and perception that you and I have. It's their right to do so, but some of them seem to really want to bring down the ones who are enjoying and not continually nit-picking. I had a friend once who never ever enjoyed anything, but continually nit-picked and criticized and really was a very unhappy person. Movies, books, TV, gifts she was given, advice she was given, people she worked with --- everything! We are no longer close friends but I've heard she is still extremely unhappy. So sad!

Thanks again sweetondean, and just so you know, I also am sweet on dean! :P ;-)
eilf
# eilf 2013-11-22 12:53
Ok so I was misinterpreted earlier and I guess I can see why so here in a much shorter version is what I meant.

This was a very polarizing episode. Last year when there were polarizing episodes there was a lot of fighting and anger which spread to all the site and meant that you couldn't read any thread without finding something to vehemently disagree with and so made everyone feel bad.

I like the fact that in this case there is a thread where people can discuss the fact that they are really happy and interpret the episode from that point of view and most likely agree with each other and another one where people can (happily) agree that they are unhappy. It makes for more in the way of discussion and less in the way of rows.

I don't think (but I might be wrong) that the people who are unhappy are calling the discussions, by people who are happy, names and telling them that they shouldn't be happy. So I felt that in fairness the opposite could apply too.

With that in mind I probably shouldn't have gone ahead and explained here what I thought the problem with the episode / season to date was, but hey you live and learn.

I most emphatically was NOT being dismissive of anyone enjoying this episode (or any episode) on an emotional instead of / in preference to an analytical level. As I said that is my favorite way of enjoying an episode too.

I just wanted to clarify that.
eilf
# eilf 2013-11-22 12:53
Ok so I was misinterpreted earlier and I guess I can see why so here in a much shorter version is what I meant.

This was a very polarizing episode. Last year when there were polarizing episodes there was a lot of fighting and anger which spread to all the site and meant that you couldn't read any thread without finding something to vehemently disagree with and so made everyone feel bad.

I like the fact that in this case there is a thread where people can discuss the fact that they are really happy and interpret the episode from that point of view and most likely agree with each other and another one where people can (happily) agree that they are unhappy. It makes for more in the way of discussion and less in the way of rows.

I don't think (but I might be wrong) that the people who are unhappy are calling the discussions, by people who are happy, names and telling them that they shouldn't be happy. So I felt that in fairness the opposite could apply too.

With that in mind I probably shouldn't have gone ahead and explained here what I thought the problem with the episode / season to date was, but hey you live and learn.

I most emphatically was NOT being dismissive of anyone enjoying this episode (or any episode) on an emotional instead of / in preference to an analytical level. As I said that is my favorite way of enjoying an episode too.

I just wanted to clarify that.
suzee51
# suzee51 2013-11-22 14:14
sweetondean: Thank you very much for the review that you wrote. Obviously it reflects the way many of us feel.

I would like to ask for help in understanding something. I was sailing through this episode, loving every minute of it. But when we got to the scene where Dean is trying to convince Timmy to tell his ghost mother to leave, Dean delivers a line that completely confused me. Dean says: "Sometimes you gotta do what's best for you, even if it's gonna hurt the ones you love."

I don't get why that line fits with either what's going on in the scene when the line is delivered, or how it fits in with the storyline of the entire episode. In fact, to me that line seems to be the exact opposite of what is being shown throughout that episode and it also doesn't ring true with anything I know about Dean Winchester and the choices he has made in his life.

I would sincerely appreciate hearing other people's understanding of why that line was inserted in that scene and in this episode.

Thank you.

P.S. I totally get how that line ties in to the whole Dean feels guilty about tricking Sam in to saying yes to Ezekiel. That is the ONLY tie in I can understand!
suzee51
# suzee51 2013-11-22 14:14
sweetondean: Thank you very much for the review that you wrote. Obviously it reflects the way many of us feel.

I would like to ask for help in understanding something. I was sailing through this episode, loving every minute of it. But when we got to the scene where Dean is trying to convince Timmy to tell his ghost mother to leave, Dean delivers a line that completely confused me. Dean says: "Sometimes you gotta do what's best for you, even if it's gonna hurt the ones you love."

I don't get why that line fits with either what's going on in the scene when the line is delivered, or how it fits in with the storyline of the entire episode. In fact, to me that line seems to be the exact opposite of what is being shown throughout that episode and it also doesn't ring true with anything I know about Dean Winchester and the choices he has made in his life.

I would sincerely appreciate hearing other people's understanding of why that line was inserted in that scene and in this episode.

Thank you.

P.S. I totally get how that line ties in to the whole Dean feels guilty about tricking Sam in to saying yes to Ezekiel. That is the ONLY tie in I can understand!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-22 14:46
Hey guys

I just wanted to remind people to be concious of your wording in comments and be respectful of the fact that we don't all feel the same way about episodes.

Please refrain from saying things like other's opinions cause nausea (#49) as this gets dangerously close to crossing the line with our posting rules here.

Everyone is passionate about this show and around this time of the season, things do tend to get heightened and sometimes heated.

Healthy discussion is fantastic. But please be concious of how your discussion points are conveyed.

Thanks guys
-sweetondean (ps...I'm an admin here too)
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-11-22 14:46
Hey guys

I just wanted to remind people to be concious of your wording in comments and be respectful of the fact that we don't all feel the same way about episodes.

Please refrain from saying things like other's opinions cause nausea (#49) as this gets dangerously close to crossing the line with our posting rules here.

Everyone is passionate about this show and around this time of the season, things do tend to get heightened and sometimes heated.

Healthy discussion is fantastic. But please be concious of how your discussion points are conveyed.

Thanks guys
-sweetondean (ps...I'm an admin here too)
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-11-22 14:56
dean's comment to timmy "to do for yourself even if it hurts the one you love." not only ties into dean's actions this season, but in every season since the pilot. selling his soul to bring sam back, having an angel possess sam to keep him alive, these are all actions that are both selfless and selfish. dean can't live without sam. he needs him as much as sam needs dean. he's his purpose. sam defines part of what dean is. there ain't no me if there aint no you. that is a true statement for dean winchester. so he sells his soul knowing it'll hurt his brother, but sam is alive and that's all that matters. he has zeke possess sam knowing sam wouldn't want that. but it keeps sam alive, so he's ok with hurting him. he does for himself even though he knows it'll hurt others. he does it out of love. he does it out of need. selfish and selfless, but's that's what makes him human. and it makes you sympathize, understand and forgive....at least sam does. and that's the thing, dean knows that sam will always forgive. he'll always be there. he's his touchstone much the same way dean is to sam.

suzee51, i don't know about anyone else, but this how i feel about that comment dean made. hope it's helpful.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-11-22 14:56
dean's comment to timmy "to do for yourself even if it hurts the one you love." not only ties into dean's actions this season, but in every season since the pilot. selling his soul to bring sam back, having an angel possess sam to keep him alive, these are all actions that are both selfless and selfish. dean can't live without sam. he needs him as much as sam needs dean. he's his purpose. sam defines part of what dean is. there ain't no me if there aint no you. that is a true statement for dean winchester. so he sells his soul knowing it'll hurt his brother, but sam is alive and that's all that matters. he has zeke possess sam knowing sam wouldn't want that. but it keeps sam alive, so he's ok with hurting him. he does for himself even though he knows it'll hurt others. he does it out of love. he does it out of need. selfish and selfless, but's that's what makes him human. and it makes you sympathize, understand and forgive....at least sam does. and that's the thing, dean knows that sam will always forgive. he'll always be there. he's his touchstone much the same way dean is to sam.

suzee51, i don't know about anyone else, but this how i feel about that comment dean made. hope it's helpful.
suzee51
# suzee51 2013-11-22 16:39
Thank you nappi815. I appreciate your comments, and I get all that. But looking at when Dean says that line, how is it best for Timmy to ask his mother to leave? Looking at Dean struggling with not wanting to give up the newfound freedoms of life at Sonny's but being willing to walk away from all of that to be with little Sammy - how is that what's best for Dean and how does that hurt the ones he loves?

I guess what is confusing to me is that I can't see how #1) asking Timmy to tell his mother to leave OR #2) choosing to be with Sam fits with the words of that statement.
suzee51
# suzee51 2013-11-22 16:39
Thank you nappi815. I appreciate your comments, and I get all that. But looking at when Dean says that line, how is it best for Timmy to ask his mother to leave? Looking at Dean struggling with not wanting to give up the newfound freedoms of life at Sonny's but being willing to walk away from all of that to be with little Sammy - how is that what's best for Dean and how does that hurt the ones he loves?

I guess what is confusing to me is that I can't see how #1) asking Timmy to tell his mother to leave OR #2) choosing to be with Sam fits with the words of that statement.
Michelle Williams
# Michelle Williams 2013-11-22 20:32
Thank you sooooooooooooo much for this article/review. I've been slowly losing my love for this show. I'll honestly tell you that "Bad Boys" bored me to death at first. But this article has changed my feelings for this episode.
Michelle Williams
# Michelle Williams 2013-11-22 20:32
Thank you sooooooooooooo much for this article/review. I've been slowly losing my love for this show. I'll honestly tell you that "Bad Boys" bored me to death at first. But this article has changed my feelings for this episode.
racestaffer
# racestaffer 2013-11-22 23:47
Quoting suzee51:
I can't see how 1) asking Timmy to tell his mother to leave {. . . }fits with the words of that statement.


Timmy had no way to know MonsterMom would turn into PrettySmilingMom when he demanded she go away. Surely he imagined that if he ordered mommy to leave it would hurt her feelings. And why was it in Timmy's best interest for him to push the dear one to depart? What was the alternative? Watch Mommy kill people again and again and again? Maybe even get blamed for it, himself, eventually? But that's gotta be secondary to the trauma of watching SerialKillerMom in action.

Quote:
OR #2) choosing to be with Sam
I don't think it's the choosing Sam part that we should target with compare/contras t here. It may be the 2 months separation. And it may have been Dean's justification for what John did... or what he himself did. Or both. I had a few paragraphs written and hadn't even finished exploring ideas here... but perhaps I should just go with the Cliff's Notes Version: In some respects, this episode was Dean's "Stanford" - then leave you to run with that or not as the whim moves you {grin}.

Editing to add: I should mention that in nosing around this morning I see that Nate Winchester's topic actually addresses some of the ideas I'd had with respect to John perhaps allowing each Young Winchester to have a "Stanford period". Or... what do the Amish call it? Some word with an aspect of "spring" in it {squint}? Maybe I should look up the term and start using that instead of "Stanford."
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-23 00:54
I haven't really commented much at this site or anywhere about the show like last year. I've asked myself why and this episode is the reason.

Last year was very painful to watch. Every scene screamed angst and when the brothers were antagonistic towards each other it bleed out of the screen into our heart. I got stabbed by the viciousness of Sam's words by the callousness of Dean's accusation. So, I came here to wallow, to rant, to find comfort from my fellow fans.

But this time, things are okay in the Winchesters' world despite the angelic possession because we know it was done out of love. Ever since Sacrifice, the turmoil that I felt as the result of seeing Sam and Dean out of sync was calmed down. Season 9 has practically put a healing salve to my wounded heart.

Very difficult for me to find fault in every episode when all I see is love.
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-23 00:54
I haven't really commented much at this site or anywhere about the show like last year. I've asked myself why and this episode is the reason.

Last year was very painful to watch. Every scene screamed angst and when the brothers were antagonistic towards each other it bleed out of the screen into our heart. I got stabbed by the viciousness of Sam's words by the callousness of Dean's accusation. So, I came here to wallow, to rant, to find comfort from my fellow fans.

But this time, things are okay in the Winchesters' world despite the angelic possession because we know it was done out of love. Ever since Sacrifice, the turmoil that I felt as the result of seeing Sam and Dean out of sync was calmed down. Season 9 has practically put a healing salve to my wounded heart.

Very difficult for me to find fault in every episode when all I see is love.
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-23 01:06
There's a fic by morgana07 that I really like. It's a coda to "Bad Boys" . Perhaps the reason why John left Dean at the ' Boy's Home' was to punish him, by taking Sammy from him. Can you Imagine how hard it was for Dean not to see Sammy; not to know of Sam's well being. If he's being taken care of or being left alone at motel room while their Dad went hunting.

I'm surprised that Dean didn't try to run away just like he threatened Sonny the first day but then again maybe John went by the farm one night and Dean saw the Impala from the window. That's how he knew that John had found him but when the Impala left, he also knew that John also decided to punish him.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9860927/1/For-Him
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-23 01:06
There's a fic by morgana07 that I really like. It's a coda to "Bad Boys" . Perhaps the reason why John left Dean at the ' Boy's Home' was to punish him, by taking Sammy from him. Can you Imagine how hard it was for Dean not to see Sammy; not to know of Sam's well being. If he's being taken care of or being left alone at motel room while their Dad went hunting.

I'm surprised that Dean didn't try to run away just like he threatened Sonny the first day but then again maybe John went by the farm one night and Dean saw the Impala from the window. That's how he knew that John had found him but when the Impala left, he also knew that John also decided to punish him.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9860927/1/For-Him
racestaffer
# racestaffer 2013-11-23 03:37
John? John Winchester. That John?
Hmmm. Hopefully you're having a good hair day and will take the opener in the spirit intended. There's a smile on my face and it's a jovial one, I assure you. But, see, the cattiness you describe doesn't sound like the John I know. OhKaaay... the John I imagine. And if that had been John's intent, well, the proof in the pudding indicates he seriously misjudged his son. YoungDean was showing no signs of separation anxiety.

No, if I were going to cast anyone as a parent capable of that level of vindictive cruelty directed at the progeny, it'd be Eve. True - All I have to base that on is one scene in 8.5 years. The only tangible thing anyway. But Dean's odd, over-the-top "Mother of the Year" reaction obviously left quite an impression on me.

Anyway, kaj, though your recent return to the keyboard has piqued my interest, I don't read SPN fanfic. Haven't even read the officially sanctioned books. I don't trust that TPTB have sufficient say in those products. Well... Cas did call the series the Winchester Gospel. Guess I'm an orthodox SPNer.
racestaffer
# racestaffer 2013-11-23 08:12
LOL - This show... and these discussion boards! Man, I tell ya... OK, in rereading in a very bleary-eyed, pre-coffee state, the opposite hypothesis to my "Stanford" parallel has come to mind. I like the Stanford one better, but then this idea is newer... maybe when it settles in a bit...

Suppose the parallel actually was Dean choosing Sammy... at least sorta. I mean sure, the guys make mistakes. They still haven't attached mitten-like bungees to their weapons and the like. (LOL) With no mistakes they wouldn't seem human and the show might have a hard time generating drama. But, the boys also have their mad skills. Dean Winchester... caught? Maybe. It happens. But maybe Dean wanted to get caught. That's not a new train of thought, BTW... it fits the Stanford hypothesis too. Except in that case Dean's "getting caught" would have been in service of Dean's wants/needs. But what if Dean thought John and/or Sammy would be better off without him?

What, just in this episode alone, supports this idea?

If John didn't have Dean to play guardian for Sam, WWJD? What would John do? Would John trust Sammy to anyone else, or would John dial back the hunting fieldwork in order to be more of a guardian while not exposing Sammy to too much risk? It's not just YoungDean who looked not at all traumatized by the separation. Sammy wasn't looking out the car window anxiously nor was he slouched or cowering in a corner of the back seat. The kid was playing with a toy... seemingly without a care in the world. What the heck *had* been going on with John and Sammy those two months? To what extent was Dean an enabler and/or a "driving force" in John's hunting? And to what extent did Dean's relationships with his family undermine the relationship of John and Sammy?

Recognize I'm not trying to be "down on Dean" here. This isn't about blame... even if Dean's tendency to feel guilt might give any trains of thought like this an aura of blame in Dean's mind. It's easy to imagine that YoungDean's seeming rejection of the family business may have been Dean's way of tying to make the best of the situation. He wasn't really giving up anything he wanted anyway... that type of thing. Notice in rejecting the newest family business he chose to embrace the original family business. John had been a mechanic before Mary's death.

Yep... even in just the time it took to type it, I'm liking it more and more. Yeah... this version probably makes more sense in the long run.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-11-23 10:25
I will hate this episode and this season if the purpose of this episode was to not have sam be angry at Dean or not show his displeasure.Oth erwise this episode showed me something about dean which i already knew.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-11-23 10:25
I will hate this episode and this season if the purpose of this episode was to not have sam be angry at Dean or not show his displeasure.Oth erwise this episode showed me something about dean which i already knew.
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-11-23 10:57
I loved your recap. I love your attitude and your spirit. I love that you keep them. Thanks for writing!
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-11-23 10:57
I loved your recap. I love your attitude and your spirit. I love that you keep them. Thanks for writing!
eilf
# eilf 2013-11-23 12:35
Quoting racestaffer:
LOL - This show... and these discussion boards! Man, I tell ya... OK, in rereading in a very bleary-eyed, pre-coffee state, the opposite hypothesis to my "Stanford" parallel has come to mind. I like the Stanford one better, but then this idea is newer... maybe when it settles in a bit...

Suppose the parallel actually was Dean choosing Sammy... at least sorta. I mean sure, the guys make mistakes. They still haven't attached mitten-like bungees to their weapons and the like. (LOL) With no mistakes they wouldn't seem human and the show might have a hard time generating drama. But, the boys also have their mad skills. Dean Winchester... caught? Maybe. It happens. But maybe Dean wanted to get caught.

Oh I like that connection Racestaffer. It links to the line about looking after cars (read:baby brothers) and then they leave and aren't your responsibility any more. It is impossible for Dean to not look out for Sam, it is what he has been told to do all his life (which, as with most things, though it might be what you WANT to do, when you feel you are forced to do it, it wears on you.)
Maybe Dean wanted to get caught then like he REALLY wants to get caught now - that line at the beginning of the episode was just .... seriously Dean? If he is forced to be away from Sam then maybe the real father figure in their lives will realise HIS real function and take back responsibility. Or maybe the little brother will get the full laser focus of 'you need to grow up and be a hunter'. This will take some of the burden off Dean. None of this is a conscious thing, it is a result of years of too much responsibility placed on a child. Of course, from Dean's point of view, John actually deals with this by showing Dean that if Dean doesn't look after Sam he will leave him with someone else (Bobby).

I don't think John really deserves the retconning that makes him look like a bad person. When Mary died he was in mourning, he had no hunter contacts and he had 2 small children. The older one clearly knew how to learn to do what John told him and doted on his little brother so John took that way out, and as he said himself, made Dean grow up too fast.

At this stage John has contacts and he knows that while Dean is having his 'Rumspringa' (there you go Racestaffer) he is going ot have to work out what to do with Sam. Sam is not the same character as Dean. Sam will not be a good soldier and do what he is told (also leaving 2 kids is one thing, leaving one is less safe) so instead of doing what Dean might wish and dealing with Sam the same way as Dean has been dealt with (yeah, ok, I am Dean in this situation, I admit it), Sam gets foisted off onto Bobby and when Dean goes back to his family nothing has changed.

I have to go back to my often repeated point though, that just because Dean believes that Sam doesn't know what Dean went through as a child, and he resents that, doesn't mean that he ACTUALLY doesn't.

Also Sam really didn't have it any easier. He may not have been forced to take responsibility for everything but what is very clear to him is that John doesn't trust him at all, BECAUSE he is never made responsible. For both the boys, since they see that John is all about responsibility, then in their screwed up little heads responsibility = love.

So for Sam John loves Dean and doesn't love Sam. Dean just looks at it as 'I always get the extra cookie' when he does the 'responsible' thing - he thinks that Sam is somehow more important and that caring for him is the way of getting his father to love him (Dean).

I think John would have been horrified to learn that this is how his kids feel. And I think the reason we haven't seen John and Mary in heaven is because they are off in a corner somewhere and she is giving him the worlds longest lecture on the subject.

Thus the revelation in Croatoan that Dean has been made 'responsible' for killing Sam if it comes to it is something the brothers both accept in a screwed up sort of way. So, yes, Sam knows what Dean's life was like, every moment of the show is infused with it as much as with the brothers love for and reliance on each other.

But I really do like the link idea of subconsciously wanting to get caught and stay caught - giving a cop a black eye is a pretty good way of knowing you won't be going home for a bit, and asking a second personality if it is ok when talking to a first personality is just ....

Poor kid, poor kids, poor grown kids.
eilf
# eilf 2013-11-23 12:35
Quote:
LOL - This show... and these discussion boards! Man, I tell ya... OK, in rereading in a very bleary-eyed, pre-coffee state, the opposite hypothesis to my "Stanford" parallel has come to mind. I like the Stanford one better, but then this idea is newer... maybe when it settles in a bit...

Suppose the parallel actually was Dean choosing Sammy... at least sorta. I mean sure, the guys make mistakes. They still haven't attached mitten-like bungees to their weapons and the like. (LOL) With no mistakes they wouldn't seem human and the show might have a hard time generating drama. But, the boys also have their mad skills. Dean Winchester... caught? Maybe. It happens. But maybe Dean wanted to get caught.
Oh I like that connection Racestaffer. It links to the line about looking after cars (read:baby brothers) and then they leave and aren't your responsibility any more. It is impossible for Dean to not look out for Sam, it is what he has been told to do all his life (which, as with most things, though it might be what you WANT to do, when you feel you are forced to do it, it wears on you.)
Maybe Dean wanted to get caught then like he REALLY wants to get caught now - that line at the beginning of the episode was just .... seriously Dean? If he is forced to be away from Sam then maybe the real father figure in their lives will realise HIS real function and take back responsibility. Or maybe the little brother will get the full laser focus of 'you need to grow up and be a hunter'. This will take some of the burden off Dean. None of this is a conscious thing, it is a result of years of too much responsibility placed on a child. Of course, from Dean's point of view, John actually deals with this by showing Dean that if Dean doesn't look after Sam he will leave him with someone else (Bobby).

I don't think John really deserves the retconning that makes him look like a bad person. When Mary died he was in mourning, he had no hunter contacts and he had 2 small children. The older one clearly knew how to learn to do what John told him and doted on his little brother so John took that way out, and as he said himself, made Dean grow up too fast.

At this stage John has contacts and he knows that while Dean is having his 'Rumspringa' (there you go Racestaffer) he is going ot have to work out what to do with Sam. Sam is not the same character as Dean. Sam will not be a good soldier and do what he is told (also leaving 2 kids is one thing, leaving one is less safe) so instead of doing what Dean might wish and dealing with Sam the same way as Dean has been dealt with (yeah, ok, I am Dean in this situation, I admit it), Sam gets foisted off onto Bobby and when Dean goes back to his family nothing has changed.

I have to go back to my often repeated point though, that just because Dean believes that Sam doesn't know what Dean went through as a child, and he resents that, doesn't mean that he ACTUALLY doesn't.

Also Sam really didn't have it any easier. He may not have been forced to take responsibility for everything but what is very clear to him is that John doesn't trust him at all, BECAUSE he is never made responsible. For both the boys, since they see that John is all about responsibility, then in their screwed up little heads responsibility = love.

So for Sam John loves Dean and doesn't love Sam. Dean just looks at it as 'I always get the extra cookie' when he does the 'responsible' thing - he thinks that Sam is somehow more important and that caring for him is the way of getting his father to love him (Dean).

I think John would have been horrified to learn that this is how his kids feel. And I think the reason we haven't seen John and Mary in heaven is because they are off in a corner somewhere and she is giving him the worlds longest lecture on the subject.

Thus the revelation in Croatoan that Dean has been made 'responsible' for killing Sam if it comes to it is something the brothers both accept in a screwed up sort of way. So, yes, Sam knows what Dean's life was like, every moment of the show is infused with it as much as with the brothers love for and reliance on each other.

But I really do like the link idea of subconsciously wanting to get caught and stay caught - giving a cop a black eye is a pretty good way of knowing you won't be going home for a bit, and asking a second personality if it is ok when talking to a first personality is just ....

Poor kid, poor kids, poor grown kids.
Joelene
# Joelene 2013-11-24 09:04
"And then there are these two brothers..." This sums up Supernatural for me. Thanks for such an uplifting review. :-)
Joelene
# Joelene 2013-11-24 09:04
"And then there are these two brothers..." This sums up Supernatural for me. Thanks for such an uplifting review. :-)
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-24 09:13
#63 eilf

Hi elif, Just a thought. We may have varied opinion on John Winchester but I actually ask myself today..."have I ever been to a war zone?" The answer is of course, NO.

I think I remember John said to Sam that once Mary died all he saw is evil and he never stop looking at the world like that. Full of evil that threatened to take his remaining family, his boys, away from him. John was back into a war zone and become not a father but a drill sergeant.

Also there's that curse aka love spell that Cupid shot at him and Mary. John and Mary would not fall in love if Cupid didn't do their magic. Cupid said he had his order from the up and up, from heaven, and I bet that the order came from Michael. Sam and Dean have to be born for the Apocalypse to start, for the grand scheme to develop so John and Mary despite their supposed hatred towards each other.
That's what I get from what Cupid insinuated with this line "....... but after we were done with them.... true love, a match made in heaven..."

So John and Mary's love is fabricated by angel magic no less but still not real. Magical induced love tend to drive the victim crazy. Just like that girl in "Wishful Thinking". So, when Mary died, John went crazy. It was all part of the plan, of the grand scheme that was cooked by the Angels and Demons. The Winchester's life ever since Cupid shot his love arrow into John and Mary was a very long stage of puppet show.
kaj
# kaj 2013-11-24 09:13
#63 eilf

Hi elif, Just a thought. We may have varied opinion on John Winchester but I actually ask myself today..."have I ever been to a war zone?" The answer is of course, NO.

I think I remember John said to Sam that once Mary died all he saw is evil and he never stop looking at the world like that. Full of evil that threatened to take his remaining family, his boys, away from him. John was back into a war zone and become not a father but a drill sergeant.

Also there's that curse aka love spell that Cupid shot at him and Mary. John and Mary would not fall in love if Cupid didn't do their magic. Cupid said he had his order from the up and up, from heaven, and I bet that the order came from Michael. Sam and Dean have to be born for the Apocalypse to start, for the grand scheme to develop so John and Mary despite their supposed hatred towards each other.
That's what I get from what Cupid insinuated with this line "....... but after we were done with them.... true love, a match made in heaven..."

So John and Mary's love is fabricated by angel magic no less but still not real. Magical induced love tend to drive the victim crazy. Just like that girl in "Wishful Thinking". So, when Mary died, John went crazy. It was all part of the plan, of the grand scheme that was cooked by the Angels and Demons. The Winchester's life ever since Cupid shot his love arrow into John and Mary was a very long stage of puppet show.
racestaffer
# racestaffer 2013-11-24 20:40
eilf - Rumspringa. Thanks! I had the right first two letters in mind too. So close and yet...

I don't consider this episode to be negative retconning of John though I will admit my immediate reaction to the supposed two-month "punishment" was ...I dunno... puzzlement, but combined with a bit of defensiveness on John's behalf. Of course, when SPN elicits a head-scratching "What?!" or the ever popular "Oh, come on..." I usually take that as a cue to reexamine. More often than not I can find the sense to it upon reflection. Then again, we have a tendency to find what we go looking for I suppose.