“Two Minutes to Midnight” – You Like?
Only TWO more left! Next week is the freaking season finale! So, how did “Two Minutes To Midnight” work for you? Did it live up to expectations? What are we freaking in for next week? Share all your reactions here, for I have this feeling group therapy is going to be needed.
FYI, I posted on Twitter and Facebook today the question, “What are you most anxious about in the last two episodes?” My answer: I don’t see how this is going to end well. So, also feel free to share what’s making you so nervous. Happy episode everyone!
I like! I like! Holy moly – Death rocked my world. And Cas is back! Yup, this is crowding up into my top 5 (which has about 20 episodes in it). Off to re-watch!
Holy moley! Next week is going to be INTENSE!!
GAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Too…stunned…can’t…speak. Me rewatch, can’t pry remote from hand.
I really liked the episode, I really did! Except for one thing–apologies in advance, I have a rant to get out of my system first:
Aargh! What a Pestilential waste! I thought Matt Frewer was pretty awesome, and was a little miffed to see him dispatched in the first 10 minutes (less?) of the episode! Sam’n’Dean retched for awhile, and Cas without any angel powers slices the ring without breaking a sweat (I guess that’s in keeping with the “We’re the ones you should be afraid of” viewpoint, though). And then poof, he’s gone.
Overall I’ve enjoyed this season a lot, but i do think the storyline and character arcs could have been developed a little better. I know, I haven’t even seen the finale yet. But I really feel there were some missed opportunities for exploring some really cool subplots that deepen the apocalyptic storyline. I thought that when I saw Hammer of the Gods, for example, and I loved last week’s ep, but I wish Pestilence had had at least one episode devoted to him . . .
So sorry–I’ll shut up with the complaining now! It took a bit before I could get back to enjoying the episode. Which I did! Bobby got his legs!!! Not from God or the angels but from a demon! ‘Course, there’s still that little matter of his soul… And Death–wow. Amazing. I felt like I was sitting at the table with Dean, and I felt so … cold and small. They both rocked that scene, it was incredible.
LOVED the “Pale Horse” muscle car, hope we see it again. BUH-BYE. I’d also love to see Death confront Lucifer, but looks like that falls to Sam.
Which brings me to thoughts on next week: Stunned, speechless, no comment. Shocked 😯
SAMMY. AND DEAN. AND BOBBY. AND CAS. AND LUCIFER.
I’m losing my mind over here with worry! MY LITTLE SAMMY! I can’t wait for him to say yes ’cause Jared’s an epic master at Lucifer, but SAMMY!
I’m not coherent enough right now. I can’t handle this. It’s probably a good thing we have a week to recover from this episode before we see THE FINALE THAT WILL DESTROY US.
Good episode. I have to do a re-watch, but there were some things I didn’t get. Did something happen to Sam in the warehouse? Seems he returned to Bobby twice. Really was strange seeing him wear a solid color shirt too? What’s up with that? Must have missed something.
I really expected more from the other horsemen too. I really thought Pestilence would have been harder to beat, and Death really just talked to Dean. Really would have liked to see last week’s episode deal with Pestilence and this week with Death. Dean AND Sam should have gone after Death together. Dean with Crowley and Sam with Cas and Bobby seemed unusual. Hoped we’d see the boys back in character this week.
Be interesting to see how it all works out. Really hope Dean answers Bobby’s question with ‘losing my brother’. Really thought we’d see Sam’s powers again in the warehouse, but that has been a disappointment all season.
I am SO glad to see Bobby’s walking again, and Cas is great as a human. Really glad he decided to use the gun when he did. Hope both of them survive next week!
I’m a little lost on what Castiel was telling Sam in the van. He has to drink tons of demon blood to be strong against Lucifer? Was that the gist? Or was it so his body would be strong enough to hold Lucifer? I’ll see if the rewatch offers clarity.
Alice, I took it to mean that once Lucifer possesses Sam’s body, Luci will need to drink “gallons” of demon blood to maintain the vessel so it doesn’t deteriorate. Oh, and ew.
Just saw your post ElenaM. I agree with you, so many missed opportunities this season. Really with a guest star like Matt Frewer, I expected to see him a lot more. They did the same with Michael Shanks. Really that has been a disappointment.
And with it looking like Sam is going to take on Lucifer by himself, that will also be a disappointment. I really hoped the boys would both be involved. Maybe it will be better than it looks.
OMG! WOW! The whole thing rocked! So much of what was predicted by Zach to happen in the future is happening…oh destiny!
Sam is going to have a daunting task ahead of him…But I really liked how everyone supported his plan. Though what Cas said about drinking demon blood was so sad. It met that Cas knew all along that Sam drinking the blood powered him and made him a more suitable vessel, but I have to wonder, if that’s so true, then what does a Michael vessel do to keep from exploding!?
This episode made me like Bobby again!! And cas, oh nothing better happen to him. Next week will take a long time to get here.
Okay.. I’ve had some time to ponder since my first quick reaction… So.. I’m curious.. does anybody else thing that Crowley is maybe not exactly what he appears to be? He’s supposed to be a crossroads demon, right? Have we ever seen his eyes turn red? I don’t know.. maybe I’m just thinking too much! I guess we’ll find out next week…
Sablegreen, my gut feeling is that Dean will have a pretty significant role to play in how Sam takes on Lucifer… but I guess we’ll just have to sit back and see… A whole week? Nooooooo! I know what you mean about wanting Sam and Dean (& the gang?) to go after Death together. Especially seeing as it’s DEATH. At least call in Rufus!!! He was just on the phone with Bobby last week! 😀 Ah, well, limited resources.
I did kind of like that Dean went to Death alone, though–thought it made that scene so chilling, especially where Death tells Dean he has to let Sam jump into the fiery pit… Must rewatch!
Ok, Alice, what was Death driving? She was gorgeous, with those big ol’ tail fins. Nice shot of the Impala from above, too!
Loved this episode, with lots of stuff crammed into this one. I am very happy that Cas apologized to Dean.
I had not even thought about Bobby getting his legs back. He smiled & laughed! I can’t remember the last time we saw that. Bobby’s house has really become home base for Team Free Will; I wonder if that will remain the case for next season (fingers crossed!) Bobby’s praise of Sam to Dean was sweet to hear.
Death was awesome. His cool arrogance & irritation at being “leashed” by Lucifer was fascinating. I don’t like the idea that he will eventually reap God too, but again, this is Kripke’s universe. Dean may have been quaking in his boots about meeting Death, but he pulled it off, & I’m proud of our boy.
I don’t know how I’m going to make it through the next 7 days…
Can I cry now???? :cry:: :cry::
Why am I so freakin’ emotional after this episode???
My mother was so emotional after My Bloody Valentine… and I wasn’t but for some reason the ending of this ep hit me like a ton of bricks!! AHHH!!!
Will comment later after thoughts are coherent….
I will definitely have to rewatch but here are some off the cuff comments….
Poor Dean. He is terrified of even the idea of continuing to live without Sam.
I think Sam feels the same way, however, he at least knows what it’s like to live without his brother. Dean made a deal right away so has no basis of reference for himself.
Cass, well, he certainly seem so much closer to being human.
And the speculation on Crowley sounds very interesting, but I think he’s just awesome. Mark Shepard is fantastic.
I just want to hug Bobby and do a jig with him. You know, if the theory about Crowley being God is true, it would make sense that Bobby’s soul was only borrowed.
Wow.
I think I’m going crazy – none of the links I normally use will work today – can’t watch the episode! I feel like the most of terrible basket cases. Can someone provide me with a link that will work?
Heeeeeeeeeeelp…. Where does the therapist go for therapy? 😮 Jas
I like!
Fantastic scene between Dean and Death. Loved Death’s quiet menace.
Pestilence was awesome, too, although I agree with earlier posters that his dispatch happened far too quickly. I would happily have given up the Paris Hilton episode earlier in the season :roll:: for more of the great apocalyptic drama we’re getting now.
As for what I fear in the finale: a Grand Canyon-esque cliffhanger that will leave us pulling our hair out all summer. Kripke & Co. may have said the apocalypse will not drag out beyond this season, but methinks we’ll have to wait until fall for the big, red bow. Is there still space on Jas’s couch?!?
thank you, Narcissus – will try as soon as I get home. This was driving me nuts, usually I have no problem watching the episode early in the morning – talk about getting up at 5.30 am to watch it before going to work. I’m a freak.
Saw the preview clip of next episode – thanks, Kripke for killing my nerves. Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam…. How will we survive? Alice said it right – Group therapy, anyone joining?
A crazed, freaked out and über-nervous and curious Jas sending her greetings to y’all
I really enjoyed this episode.
I too was surprised how quickly Pestilence met his end. I thought we would see more of him. But I wasn’t disappointed, just surprised.
I loved that Dean was still being the big brother when he heard Sam’s plan.
‘We’re not done!’
I loved seeing Castiel. I can’t help but feel sorry for him. He too has lost so much, his home(heaven), his powers, everything that gave him his identity and purpose.
I loved seeing Bobby standing. That pure joy on his face was heartwarming.
I loved Crowley. That whole scene with Bobby admitting about lending out his soul was too funny. ‘Did you kiss him?’
I still don’t trust Crowley. Not sure if I believe he is God in disguise.
I was thinking that he is in cahoots with Death, since both don’t want Lucifer in charge.
I don’t believe the deal with Bobby was to find out where Death was, I think he already knew and this meeting was pre-planned. I think his deal with Bobby was strictly for insurance that the Winchesters wouldn’t kill him, when and if Lucifer was re-caged
I also think the mini sigh was a fake, it was to give Dean false security to ensure no real weapons would be used so no one would get hurt.
I was surprised that Castiel agreed with Sam’s plan and about the demon blood.
Does this mean Dean needs angle blood? 😉
And I loved the talk between Dean and Bobby. Bobby putting his faith in Sam.
They are at the end of their rope, there doesn’t seem to be any other options.
One more to go, not sure if my nerves and heart are going to be able to take it. 😯
I also loved the introduction to Death, with the slow motion of the guy dying and the ‘O Death’ song playing..that was pretty eerie.
Okay, wonderful episode. I loved, loved the scene with Death. It was exactly how I imagined it would go.
I agree that Pestilence was rushed but this does have to get wrapped up soon. I would’ve loved to see more of Matt Frewer. I can’t imagine how they’re going to tie up all the loose ends next week in only an hour. I wish they could’ve done a 2 hour special.
You know, I never even considered that Crowley was anything but the “King of the Crossroads.” But it’s true, we haven’t seen his eyes turn red or any color for that matter. I keep weighing it back and forth and I’m not sure. Wow, what a twist that would be.
Cas was amazing. When he came in on Pestilence, I shouted, “Go Cas!” It’s interesting that he seems more kickass the more human he gets.
Sam, I so want to squish you in a hug. He breaks my heart. He hates himself so much. I know he’s going to be around next fall but scenes like the one he had with Dean are so heartbreaking and makes me fear for what’s to come next week. I have to rewatch that because I realize I didn’t really get a good look at Dean’s facial reactions to Sam’s speech. I’m not sure if he agreed with Sam or disagreed about whether Sam was weak and the least of them. I think he doesn’t but he didn’t try to dissuade Sam from thinking it either.
Oh gosh, next week. The season finale is next week. I don’t know if my heart can take it.
Howdy y’all! This is my first time here, but I wanted to toss out my two cents (with inflation maybe it’s 25?…anyway)
Is it just me thinking that the wonderful Crowley isn’t on the up and up. Maybe he’s working with the baddies to get Sam to say yes? Then that whole nonsense about the magic tracking coin would make perfect sense. (Although, he could have just used the colt to follow them or something which would have fit better into the whole Supernatural plot, but I digress)
I mean, Rudy made maybe demon enemies since no one by she and Lilith knew the plan. Maybe that’s what Crowely and Lucy are doing? Get the boys everything they need and make them think they have a fighting chance just so Sam will finally say yes and Lucy can have his true vessel? Or could be that I’m just projecting cause I kinda, sorta want Jensen to rock the character of Michael. PS. Supernatural, never again show me promos of Dean’s lovely face looking like he went 25 rounds with a sledge hammer…that is all)
Loved it, but I’m worried about Sam, I’m worried about Dean worrying about Sam, not so worried about Cas (either they took his grace from him, a la Anna, or he’s turning human, which I can foresee as a whole lot of fun for the writers next year…) Not so worried about Bobby, which should scare me. Worried about Crowley, why did he give Dean that tracking thingy? Why did Dean keep it?
Details, they’ll make you nuts
I’m not really worried about Sam or Dean as they will survive for season six. Though I’m sure they will be suffering mightily in the finale.
As had been said in season four, a righteous Dean shed blood in hell and so began the apocalypse and that same righteous man must end it. So I believe Dean will have a big part to play and it will not only be Sam who saves the day. Hopefully it will be a team up, and not them being muppets for the archangels to fight it out. It must be the human Winchesters that end it or what was the purpose of this show being all about family and free will?
And as for Sammy drinking more blood, remember Ruby said that he didn’t ever need it. He did not need the feather to fly. He had it in him all along.
Dean and Death were awesome. You could see how terrified Dean was. Bravo Jensen!!
I for one do care a hell of a lot for Bobby and do not want to see him perish after getting his legs back. Thank you for that Crowley! I do not wish to lose either Bobby or Cas, but have a sick feeling that one or the other of these two will be sacrificed. Boo!
Yes, I would have enjoyed a whole episode with Matt Frewer as Pestilence. What he did with the part he had was awesome!
I don’t think God making a last minute rescue would do justice to season five as it should be Team Free Will who will triumph in the end and it seems to me that that is what God truly wants to happen. Why he saved the boys from Luci and brought Cas back and sent them to heaven to get a better understanding of each other and to remember that and the fact that they did get to heaven after all. I don’t think they have realized this yet. Anyway, I hope that is the way it will go. But who knows? I’m not writing it.
Whatever, I will take what I get and be grateful for it. 😉
DawnD, welcome to the site and thanks for commenting! Feel free to come back at any time!
I finally saw the episode, but can hardly get any coherent thought to form a sentence… I need to rewatch it and sort out my emotions… So much to digest. I guess we all know where this is heading, and with the promo of next week’s episode in mind… this might just be the most horrific finale ever. And the most awesome one.
I can imagine the cliffhanger killing us this time. Or we will be given a happy-ending… not likely. the Krip has a twisted mind, hasn’t he?
I’m so happy to be able to share my breathlessness and insanity over a freakin tv show with y’all guys. This is a safe haven with mind blowing stuff like this…
Take care, Jas
I had so many verbal reactions to this episode, I usually watch in silence and keep it to myself but I couldn’t. Afterwards, I was brushing my teeth and the full realization of the episode crashed down upon my head and I had to get out all my tension with a few full-body shakes.
Pesty is so bad-ass, I wish we’d seen more of him. It’s good to know that Cas has a speck of angel in him, though–although making him human was a good way to get him out of the mythology storyline so he can come back next season!
I love Death so much. I love him love him love him. When his car–so beautiful and sophisticated, even a non-car-person like me could appreciate it–pulled up to the curb I caught my breath, when he started walking down the street I beamed with excitement, and when he brushed his shoulder and the guy died I COULD NOT hold in my excitement and ran upstairs to sputter at my mom in an attempt at expressing my appreciation for the moment. Now that I know it was all Phil Scriggia’s doing, I am devoted to him. And Sera. “I invite you to contemplate how insignificant you really are.”
I was watching this and thinking “this would be a great episode to write something that was just reactions to things that are happening” and then I was like “oh…but they would all be the same: OH SAMMY!” Like I told my mom, she’s going to love this episode because she is a Sam fan and Sam gets a lot of recognition for how awesome he is. That last conversation pretty much made me cry. “Are you afraid of losing, or losing your brother?” Because after the devil’s gone and no one cares about the Winchesters, no one is gonna bring Sammy back.
Like Bevie, I’m doubting their going to go with a deus ex machina here–Team Free Will is going to save the day. Although, since they cast God he’s probably going to show up somewhere.
Does anyone else notice how completely ambiguous the mini-synopsis for next weeks’s episode is? Not even a hint about what’s going to happen except for the thing about a friend.
I imagine next week’s ending will be something akin to Buffy season 5, as it’s the same basic thing happening.
Narcissus: 😆 😆 😆 Maybe Kripke’s will read “Death by Fangirls.” Joking, everyone, joking!!! Nice to see you around, btw!
Stephanie made a very interesting point about Crowley, and welcome Anthony! That’s a fascinating thought! I kind of hope not, though–I adore Crowley the Demon! My guess is that much was made of God’s love for humankind, it’s hard for me to see God slashing a couple of security guys’ throats and then being snarky about it… but this being SPN, anything’s possible.
Interesting that Death’s scythe burned in his presence like the amulet should for God. Foreshadowing perhaps?
If we do hear from God, i hope it’s in the form of Joshua popping down into his vessel to do the talking (Sam’n’Dean saw the others in the form of their vessels, so I figure it’d be the same for the gardener…) I loved him, and I like the idea of leaving God pretty mysterious. Although I guess the amulet wouldn’t burn, then… assuming Sam picked it up.
Speaking of loose ends, does anyone else wonder where Raphael is? That ring didn’t burn forever did it? Shouldn’t he be after Castiel’s head? And the littlest Antichrist is still on his world tour?
Phil Sgriccia, man. I’m totally with everyone who’s singing his praises. Death’s intro scene was so beautiful and chilling. Watched it over and over and it still takes my breath away.
Thanks for the make and model of the car, Alice! Gorgeous. The Impala’s got competition. *gasp* Although I really really wish that shot of the BUH BYE license plate had made the episode. Maybe they thought it would detract from the chilling effect but I loved it…
Aargh, i’m rambling again. Random, tangential rambling and probably talking into a vacuum at that. I love the exchanges here but Leslie, I feel your pain. Sometimes you really badly want a live person to talk to about this dadburn show!!!!
Another little detail I loved: one of the newspapers Bobby was looking at was a Lawrence, KS paper! The Lawrence Bulletin or something like that…
Yes, thanks Alice for the info on Death’s car. I would like to have seen the license plate too. I’d forgotten about that view in the promo!
It finally did feel like a worldwide apocalypse with guys reading newspapers detailing the disease outbreaks & natural disasters occurring around the globe, the impending release of the Croatoan virus, & the threat to millions of people in Chicago.
I’d also like to see or at least hear a mention of Raphael, Jesse, Meg, Rufus & the others who’ve played a role in the events of the past year.
Glad you finally got to watch, Jas! I would have been having a tantrum bigger than Luci’s if I hadn’t been able to watch last night!!
Dawn
Sorry about the length of this ramble but I do so like. Oh, I like! Oh I like so very, very, VERY much!!!
I agree with Leslie 92708 – well… not so much a trilogy as a movie. Each episode is about 40 min? Episodes 20, 21 and 22 are 3x approx.40 min = 120 min – 2 hours – one amazing movie. This explains SO much about last week’s set-up episode. Oh me of little faith 😉
Agree Pestilence was brilliant, if brief. Bobby, Castiel and Crowley were brief (hooray!), but all brilliant. Think the Bobby-Crowley kiss revealed scene was practically note-perfect by all concerned as was the Bobby’s deal sub-clause A scene. Those 5 actors are so in the zone together.
Death was also incredible – and that confrontation scene in the diner was so quiet, and so brutally tense. What superb storytelling by all concerned to make acquiring the fourth ring such a hugely satisfying anti-climax (I’ll take that oxymoron to go, thank you, while I smoke my cigarette).
I completely did not see the twist with Crowley’s sub-clause to the deal coming. And having read Anthony C.’s speculation above about Crowley’s possible true nature am torn between being gutted to have that spoiled if true and blown away by how awesome that would be! Having said that – I think Crowley is working with Death – the pizza comment was too much of a coincidence, methinks, even given the Chi-town setting- particularly when coupled with Crowley having somehow acquired the Grim Reaper’s scythe…
I was horrified by the reveal about the need for demon blood – but do not know why because I should have seen it coming…I LOVE that this show can still do that to me! When Sam executed those Croats with Bobby, he did not make my blood run cold though. For some reason I could see him as a little boy, training with his Dad … I do wonder about Sam letting the ‘civilians’ go from the warehouse though…’Croats’ don’t always ‘flip’ immediately, right? The road to hell…
Jensen was phenomenal as a Dean all grown up and making the hardest of choices – especially in the diner scene and the last one. Talk about ‘finding the nuances’ in every inflection and expression. Perfection. And Jared too. He has grown so much as an actor and the understated way in which he played that scene by the car in particular was beautiful.
The use of the O Death tune was haunting and the cinematography was exquisite throughout the episode. The show and the guys 😉 have never looked better. And the characters all rang so true. And the pacing, the dialogue, the twists and turns. The Sam’n’Dean-ness of it all. Sera Gamble? Home run.
Holy ****!: Cas is human. Sam is going to say yes to Lucifer. The Croatoan virus is ready…all the chess pieces are in place for the world in Episode 5.4…
‘My name is Death and The End is near’.,,
Holy **** this is a good show!
magichappening….omg, you lit onto something:
I do wonder about Sam letting the ‘civilians’ go from the warehouse though…’Croats’ don’t always ‘flip’ immediately, right? The road to hell…
What if he let th virus out????? It would be such a Sam thing to do. Think he had all the right intentions but have it backfire because he’s “cursed”!
So, I liked the episode a lot, and enjoyed pretty much what everyone else has touched on, so I won’t rehash it here. However, there were a couple things that bothered me about the episode, and after thinking about it for a while, I think I figured out what they are, and they both had to do with Bobby, though it kills me to say it since usually I love Bobby so much.
First, I have to say I’m really glad he has the use of his legs back because I was starting to get super tired of his attitude toward his paralysis, especially when he was so harsh to Cass. Cass had every right to be upset about losing his angel mojo, and while there really wasn’t time in the episode for him to go into his feelings (missed opportunity due to pacing issues with earlier-season episodes, I think) Bobby’s woe-is-me argument about the loss of his leg function yet again kind of annoyed me. Now, my father-in-law is a triple amputee, and he is still extremely mobile and lives a very full life. Heck, he probably does more athletic activities than most able-bodied people. And I have never once heard him complain about anything to do with his disabilities. Now, the event happened years before I was born so I wasn’t around for the immediate aftermath, but still. And while I do understand that paralysis is a very extreme condition that would take a great deal of getting used to, I am starting to feel like Bobby would rather be dead than paralyzed, and I am not okay with that. You can absolutely still lead a full and fulfilling life if you’re paralyzed, as I’ve witnessed on numerous occasions with my father-in-law’s friends. I’m probably a little biased about that since I do have so many good examples, but the whole “I’d rather die than lose an appendage” attitude really ticks me off!
The other problem I had was the end conversation Bobby had with Dean, particularly the part when Bobby says he and Dean are too hard on Sam. Since when? I really don’t intend this to be anti-Sam or anything, but honestly, I’m having a hard time coming up with a lot of evidence to back that up. Dean was pretty harsh to Sam back in “Point of No Return” when he said he didn’t believe in him. And that’s all I have. Just poor choice of words, maybe. Honestly, is there something I’m forgetting here?
Okay, end rant! That made it sound like I didn’t enjoy the episode, but I really did, apart from those two niggling issues I had.
Magichappening–OMG, that’s a really good point! The scientist who was injected in 5×20 did flip as soon as he was injected, but maybe after blood to blood contact it needs time to incubate? Or have they tweaked the virus since that test run in River Grove, OR? Sure they said no further tests were necessary then but I think Brady was working on more than distribution. Hee. Geeking out over fictional infectious diseases. :geek: :geek: :geek:
Ardeospina–your father-in-law sounds like an amazing and courageous guy! Wow.
I can’t think of much where Bobby was hard on Sam, although he did say “I deserve a damn medal” in SFTD & that he couldn’t control himself or his anger well in 5×20. Dean, though, there was the stuff in 5×1-5×5 (I just don’t think I can trust you anymore etc.), and in DSotM, etc. All that fallout from S4. Not that I have issues with it–I can definitely understand where Dean’s coming from, why he felt so betrayed. Just my thoughts. Maybe it was just easier for Bobby to say “We’re hard on him” than “You’re hard on him.”
Loved Dean’s pizza date with Death and the warehouse raid! And I love Cas being mostly human! I hope this means he survives and we have him again next season!
Can’t wait for next week!
Nope when Bobby said “We’re hard on him” he meant “You’re hard on him” but he knew it would be easier to hear if he put it that way. Yet more proof that Bobby is the best-surrogate dad ever. Being from Chicago, I should point out that that did look like an actual truly fine deep-dish that Dean and Death had there. If Chicago is spared the wrath of the final days it will indeed be because of the pizza at Ginos on N. Wells. As always, Jensen is the best at playing a scene strictly through expression. Watching him try to swallow that bite of pizza while choked with fear was priceless. I grant that Bobby was a bit of a sissy over the whole paralysis thing, but he’s had a rough year. I think the thing that was killing him wasn’t the chair itself, but the fact that he couldn’t be with the boys, couldn’t get in the truck and go fight, but just had to sit back and advise….a vital role…but after sending out Ellen and Jo and not being there when they died….it was tearing him up. What’s Crowley’s motivation tho’? I loved Bobby’s sincere “Thanks.” What a gentleman, he’ll even thank a demon. But if there’s one thing that Supernatural has taught us, it’s that demons are EVIL. Crowley is not some low-level Casey, who might have re-developed some human feeling without Hell’s noticing, he is a throat-cutting, fascist-facilitating, high-level crossroads demon. What’s his endgame? It can’t be good.
Huh.
So basically we learned that Dean’s only real importance is by stepping aside and not getting in Sam’s way of defeating Lucifer? Michael already has Adam, Lucifer only wants Sam, and Dean… does he even have a role in all of this?
And apparently Dean is such a horrible brother because he’s been so “hard on Sam” [huh?]. Dean has always had faith in Sam up until Sam chose to put his faith in Ruby over Dean. Dean put Sam up on a pedestal, refusing to believe Gordon, refusing to even believe Sam himself when he doubted himself.
And even when Dean lost his faith in Sam, it was because Sam DID make some huge mistakes — Sam did not have faith in Dean last season, Sam did choose a demon over him — and it was those mistakes were the reason Dean lost faith in Sam. But now it all comes down to Dean being just a big meanie to Sam?
Additionally, apparently Dean was also horrible and wrong for wanting to say yes to Michael (to save the world) but Sam is right to want to say yes to Lucifer, even though he’ll have to drink more demon blood in order to be strong enough to withstand Lucifer? And never mind if Sam fails, Lucifer gets exactly what he wants, and Dean will be forced to say yes to Michael anyway. But no, Dean deserved to be berated and beaten up for thinking that he should say yes. Okay, then.
So everyone — Sam, Bobby, Cas, Death, and even God — believe that Dean should just stay out of Sam’s way and take a hand’s off approach and allow Sam to take on Lucifer?
And now that Bobby has use of his legs, surely he can use the rings and to re-cage Lucifer. It seems to me that there’s really no need for Dean in our story at all. It’s all up to Sam taking on Lucifer and someone (anyone) using the rings to lock him back up. So I guess this might be a good time for Dean to take that trip to the Grand Canyon or something. 😐
Ardeospina, I too thought that conversation was a touch odd, maybe because of the way Bobby reached back to the beginning of Sam’s hunting days – we know there has been incidents between the age of 12 and now in which Sam hasn’t always made the right decision (and no, I’m not being anti-Sam, that’s the truth. Listening to Ruby was a bad decision even if it was for the right reasons). I choose to believe that Bobby simply meant they needed to give Sam a chance, that they can’t keep reacting to his decisions as though he’s still the blood-addict, but rather they have to respect that he is a hunter with extensive experience and, minor lapses in judgement aside, he’s been a damn good hunter most of his life.
Part of what Bobby was saying, I believe, is that it isn’t their place to “let” Sam do anything – he’s a grown man who has to make his own decisions. Things will go a lot better if he has some kick-ass people like Bobby and Dean backing his play.
I don’t believe Dean has been extensively hard on Sam, persay, rather, they’ve had their issues this season (and last). Both boys, at one time or another, have said something hurtful to the other,they’ve equally shelled out painful comments to each other.
Admitedly, Dean has had trust issues with Sam this season, but the rift stems from actions on both parts last season and it wouldn’t be reasonable to expect them to have a beer together and wipe away everything that’s taken place over the past two years. The boys are definately on the road to relationship rescue, especially in the back half of the season.
Dean not having a role in the endgame? Really? I HIGHLY doubt that will be the case. That didn’t even cross my mind. I think that is a radical interpretation of the text – just because Dean has been told not to interfere with Sam’s “Yes Lucifer” plan doesn’t mean he’ll be on the sidelines.
I don’t understand why people insist on turning everything into Sam vs. Dean – they’ve both done stupid things, they’ve both said mean things – be they honest expressions of their feelings or otherwise, they’ve both had their roles to play and I’d be willing to be will both have an equal hand in whatever final battle goes down.
It’s interesting that Sam was and still is berated for starting the Apocalypse, trusting a demon, etc. Now that he has an opportunity to make amends, and this with a terrible cost to himself, some people are complaining that he is stealing the laurels from Dean. Seriously, it seems nothing that Sam does is good enough. Not to mention that Dean is trusting a demon himself now, but that’s OK because he’s always right.
I wouldn’t worry about Dean standing out of the spotlight. I’m sure both will be have an equal part in stopping the apocalypse. Dean may be the one to end it, but he’ll only accomplish it with Sam’s sacrifice.
Does everyone know what Sam is about to do???? Has this point been completely lost???
I’m finally catching up on the comments, and based on what I’ve read here and what some other people have asked me, I don’t think some people grasp what Sam is going to do. He’s proposing to become Lucifer’s meat suit, take control, jump into the cage. It’s heroic sure, but it’s also SELF SACRIFICE in the most horrible possible way. He has to spend eternity (or at least the next 1000 years) in a cage possessed by Satan himself. Never having control, never having his own thoughts, stuck in a private Hell. Best case is he burns up and dies. How in the world is he stealing Dean’s thunder??????????????
I’ll admit, Dean, Sam, Bobby, Castiel, they’re skirting the issue. They all know it but won’t say it. The second Sam says yes, they’ve lost him FOREVER. So, the plan is freaking killing me. If Dean says yes to Michael, he gets to return back to his life. Sam was given no such guarantees. His only option is death or eternal damnation.
So, who has it better in this scenario? NO ONE. Dean will have the painful reality of allowing this to happen, being the only one left alive in his family. Knowing what happened to Sam will haunt him for the rest of his eternity. They’re BOTH really screwed.
No more Sam vs. Dean nonsense please.
No more from me, I promise. I just want to say that I’m glad someone realized what Sam, and Dean too, are about to do. Sam is sacrificing his life and Dean is sacrificing what is most precious for him in the world. They both deserve our most profound respect.
Absolutely agree, Alice & AndreaW. This is the worst possible sacrifice for both boys.
Sorry if my original comment came across as a Sam vs. Dean thing because that was really not my intention at all. I was simply, perhaps not very eloquently, trying to voice my opinion that I think Bobby’s final speech was a little off to me. Because I think the person who has always been hardest on Sam is Sam himself. He’s gotten into Dean levels of low self-esteem with thinking he’s the least of Team Free Will, and what a horrible thing to hear him say. And yeah, Alice, his plan to sacrifice himself is terrifying and is a no-win situation for all involved. If it works, Sam is going to be stuck in a cage, I think in Hell? And Dean is going to lose his brother, the worst possible scenario for him. And Bobby is going to lose a son, basically, equally horrible for him. It’s going to be heartbreaking all around.
Again, not trying to start anything, but just to discuss in a calm and sensible manner, my personal opinion is that Dean really isn’t hard on Sam. Yes, he’s said some pretty horrible things to his brother, especially recently, but lashing out when you’re hurting isn’t the same as being hard on someone all the time, in my opinion. What Dean does do is smother Sam. He’s like the most overprotective parent there is, and that is probably just as damaging, but again, I don’t think it’s the same as being hard on him. Dean just can’t let go, and I think he’s going to have to in order to support his brother with the saying yes to Lucifer plan.
Lastly, I understand the point Bobby was trying to make to Dean in that last speech. He was trying to get him to understand that he needs to let Sam go in order for their plan to work. I really just think it could have been written better, play up Sam’s strengths like he did, but work the angle that the best thing Dean can do for his brother is support him and let him go. Dean always wants to do right by Sam, so that should have convinced him.
Like Alice says, let’s not get into Sam vs. Dean territory, and sorry if my comments were misconstrued that way. But friendly, intelligent discussion of our concerns and opinions can be accomplished!
I really like your perspective on the relationship, Ardeospina… You’re right, lashing out when hurt isn’t the same thing. And sorry, folks, I really didn’t mean to fan any flames with my comment, I was thinking out loud about what Bobby said (edit, Elena, edit!!!) I also get pretty enthusiastic about details (e.g. Crowley sniffing his drink and deciding he’ll pass after all :D)–it’s the geek in me :geek:– but don’t mean to detract from the gravity of the bros’ extremely crappy current situation… Just saw the preview clip by the car, really throws it in relief, it’s so wonderfully quiet and understated…