Producer’s Preview Inside Supernatural Episode 10.22
Here’s the Inside Supernatural video, probably the last video before tomorrow’s episode.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f4pCLb2PdE&feature=em-uploademail
So Dean now actively wants Sam dead. Sam still wants to save Dean. Rowena wants Crowley dead and is forcing Sam to kill him before she helps save Dean. What do you think? Will Sam kill Crowley? Or was Cain right and that’s Dean’s job? Will Cas continue to help Sam try to save Dean? Will Dean be more willing to fulfill Cain’s prediction and kill Sam? Let us know in the comments.
Dean has said some awful things to Sam or about Sam (in season 4, season 5, and season 8 especially) but he had never actually said that Sam should have died.
One of the things that viewers could count on was Dean wanting to have Sam with him and to save Sam and to keep Sam safe. I think that Dean will pull through but what he said to Sam was so ugly… You don’t ever say anything like that to someone, especially your own family. It seems like Dean thinks that Sam as good as murdered Charlie.
[i] “You wanna know what I think? I think it should be you up there, not her.” [/i] That makes Dean seem like the little sister he never had, Charlie, is more important to him than his little brother Sam. I guess it shouldn’t have come as a surprise since Dean has a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater when Sam has let him down. At one point, Dean preferred Benny over Sam and he had also questioned whether Sam had ever been his brother. If Dean was asked now, he’d probably say something similar again.
After the possession, Sam said that he should have died. He couldn’t see the upside of being alive because other people had gotten hurt because of him, Kevin had died. Now Dean is telling Sam that Sam should be the one who is burning because Charlie got killed. What is that going to do to Sam?
I don’t think that Sam will turn back now. His brother already hates him so the only thing to do is to push forward or all of the sacrifices would be for naught.
I agree, there is pretty much nothing else Sam can do at this point. He has to move forward or just lay down and die… and if he does that? Well, then Dean goes, the world goes, any number of people will die, maybe even thousands. Sam has to fight, he has no choice. I just wish the show would do a better job at showing how hopeless and impossible a situation Sam is in at the moment and allow fans to see what he’s facing and feel for him. They did so with Dean when it came to the possession, so I know they are capable of writing that way, but they have been VERY bad about showing Sam in a sympathetic light these past three years no matter how difficult a situation he’s being put in.
I don’t know I feel horrible for Sam right now. He is in a no win situation. I am sure there is a huge part of him that agrees with Dean. I am sure he wishes it was him on the pyre instead of Charlie. But since he isn’t and I feel that Sam is going to go to whatever extreme it takes and will stop at no personal sacrifice. I think his collaboration with Cas is over. Sam has always been willing to give his life to atone for his perceived mistakes. Real or not Sam won’t stop until he is dead or Dean is cured or both.
Edited by Alice – This post was reported, MULTIPLE times, as were all the replies. I’m removing them all if they’ve caused that much upset. Stick to the topic, not whether someone is a Sam hater or Dean hater.
Agree Sam wont stop now, he has no reason to. Chalire is dead, he thinks her death is all on him, he blames himself for Kevin and for Dean having the MOC, his brother hates him and wishes him dead. Sam doesnt have a reason to stop, he’s going to go whole hog alone even if it kills him. At this point there is no doubt in my mind that Sam has been driven to suicide. He will either kill himself directly to save Dean or die trying to save Dean. He has no reason to live. Its save Dean and die or die trying to save Dean either way I dont think Sam cares what happens to himself anymore. Not going to end well for Sam. But it seems from the spoilers Dean comes out of it all just fine.
Agreed! At this point I’m desperately hoping Sam sacrifices himself. Even if it doesn’t save Dean, at least the poor guy will finally have some peace. I said it before and I’ll say it again, I think Sam is the saddest, most tragic character on TV.
[quote] At this point there is no doubt in my mind that Sam has been driven to suicide. He will either kill himself directly to save Dean or die trying to save Dean. He has no reason to live. Its save Dean and die or die trying to save Dean either way I dont think Sam cares what happens to himself anymore. [/quote]
Interesting! I hadn’t thought about Sam being driven to suicide but it’s definitely true that Sam is going to save Dean or die trying. At this point, it might seem to Sam that he doesn’t have much more to lose. And he has to be all in to save Dean since last season Dean perceived that Sam was willing to check out rather than to continue to fight the good fight so that they could be there for each other and to save each other.
Don’t know when but the prophesy must be fulfilled just as Deanmon came to be, however short it was, Cane’s foreboding must come to be as well. I just hope its not the last scene of the Series.
This would have to be one of the most brutal season ever how can the boys get through this Its not Dean we need to remember that It’s Deans other half- He would never won’t Sam dead This has been building since S9 now hopefully some closure for everyone How will the Boys survive the aftermath Sam is definitely on Deans hit list This is to much to cope with The writers are accountable for this trauma we are going through Love you Dean & Sam your Fans are with you xxxooo
Dean had his wish last season if he had let Sam go then he would be free of Sam , no MOC and no dead Charlie could of saved himself the trouble .
There is nothing stopping Sam was walking away either. For the life of me, up until the BOTD episode where Sam proclaimed his sudden love of hunting, I cant figure out why he stays.
Honestly neither do I .
I guess for Dean this is a case of be careful what you wish for. That applies to season 9 and 10.
While what Dean says here is pretty brutal (and painful) I can understand his anger. Deans furious and rightfully so. Its not that Dean doesnt want to find a cure nor had he given up (tho after he gets his revenge kill on I dont know that he will care anymore), its that he doesnt want that cure to come at a cost to Sam or others. Dean specifically told Sam that the book was calling to him. He warned Sam how it was evil and that to use it would mean consequences of biblical proportions and yet Sam didnt listen. Not only that but he threw in with Rowena who had just tried her level best to kill Dean earlier and would have succeeded had it not been for the MOC. On top of all that he lied to Dean about the BOTD being destroyed and pulled Cas and Charlie in on his scheme. I know it was a harsh thing to say, and I dont believe for a moment he truly means it, but its out there and the damage is done. It could be influence from the MOC but as of right now Im not willing to give Dean that easy out. It was a hard thing to say but Sam needed to hear it. He needs to stop what hes doing and try an alternative, but he wont because hes convinced Deans out of control. He will be after this! Dean has to know that giving into the hate and anger towards the Steins and going on this killing spree will only feed the MOC further, and that he will lose more of himself in the process. So much for trying to resist! I say, go pussycat, kill, kill!!!
[quote] It was a hard thing to say but Sam needed to hear it. [/quote]
I don’t understand that line of thinking at all. You think that Sam needed to hear Dean tell him that it should be Sam’s funeral, not Charlie’s?
Sam does not react well to the feeling that his brother wants him dead. He was torn about what to do regarding the Lilith situation but continued on his path after listening to a message that he thought was from Dean:
[b] 4.22 Lucifer Rising [/b]
[i] Dean’s voice: Listen to me, you bloodsucking freak. Dad always said I’d either have to save you or kill you. Well, I’m giving you fair warning. I’m done trying to save you. You’re a monster, Sam — a vampire. You’re not you anymore. And there’s no going back. [/i]
Except now Dean said right to Sam’s face, [i] “I think it should be you up there and not her.” [/i]
I think Sam needs a hard shake, if not physically then verbally. By Dean saying something so sharp and unlike him, maybe Sam will realize the error of his ways and stop before any further damage is done, collaterally or to himself. I think it is partally influenced by the MOC because Dean is gradually losing himself to it. But who knows? Dean could just be really, really, really pissed.
Sam did not need to hear Dean say that Sam should have died. Or that Sam doesn’t get to apologize. Hearing that Sam can’t come back from this is not something that Sam needs as evidenced by what happened in season 4. And even without that it should be obvious that Sam would never need to hear from his brother that it should be Sam’s body that is burning up on the pyre.
Dean saying, [i] “I think it should be you up there and not her,” [/i] is way more than a hard shake. Making someone feel like they are irredeemable is not the way to go unless Dean would currently be willing to have Sam go so far to atone for Charlie getting killed that Sam would have no regard for his own life anymore.
Eh, hes really pissed. He just said something that he felt in anger. People say things in time of grief. Maybe even for the slightest second he even meant it. Who knows. Sam knows Deans not himself right now either. Sam can take it. Hes done his own share of dishing out the cruelty in the past. Sams not the same Sam he was back in Season 4 either. Older and more mature. Im sure Dean feels all kinds of guilt, that here he is doing whatever he can do to contain this mess hes got them into, while all this time Sam is going behind his back, despite his warnings about the book which ends up with Charlie dead. Not being able to stop this trainwreck in spite of all his efforts.
I think Sacrifiice showed that Sam takes Dean’s words to heart and yes they both have said harsh things in the past but this was something different . Dean cannot put the genie back in the bottle he opened and telling Sam he wishes it was him up there is no going to change anything the course was set and it will play out to whatever end.
Kinda like the cruel things Sam said to Dean back in Season 9 and their repercussions.
…
just a friendly reminder that you are turning this in to the usual Sam vs. Dean nonsense. And, unlike the IMDB Supernatural Dean Winchester lovefest forums, people will defend Sam on this site 😉
Nope. Discussing the clip. Responding to questions. It isnt a Sam vs Dean thing. In this instance it is a Sam has done something monumentally stupid and has some culpability. Its just his time this go round. If others choose to turn it into Sam vs Dean wank, thats beyond my control. Ive explained where Im coming from and why in regards to both Sam and Deans actions.
[quote]Kinda like the cruel things Sam said to Dean back in Season 9 and their repercussions.[/quote]
Not sure how else to interpret that statement other than the usual Sam vs. Dean dreck.
I might be out of line here Arn’t we so passionate HEHEEEEEEEEEE Anyway Dean is succombing to the MOC / Dean is also Dean — Do you think he said it to PUSH Sam away / What if in his heart of hearts he really wanted say [u][b]I’M GLAD IT ISN’T YOU UP THERE.[/b][/u] Dean is scared / Dean is angry/ Sam might be next. His mind is running overtime. I’ve lost Charlie, if only Sam had have listened, Ohh ——— WHAT IF IT WAS SAM. Nooo I’ve got to protect him, I’ve got to run
That was not the face of someone who “loved” Sam in that moment, that was the face of someone who wants to kill Sam.
you are presenting a lot of what-ifs and interpretations of what’s going on in that scene; I for one am willing to watch to see how it plays out.
This comment, as well as several of the replies, were reported. Considering AlyCat22 explained herself, I’ll let it stand. It’s borderline to me actually but if I take away one comment, it takes away all replies. I think there is some worthy discussion in here. We’ll just call it subjective interpretation and move on.
[quote] Sam can take it. Hes done his own share of dishing out the cruelty in the past. Sams not the same Sam he was back in Season 4 either. Older and more mature. [/quote]
Don’t forget how Dean’s words affected Sam just two seasons ago.
[b] 8.23 Sacrifice [/b]
[i] Sam: You can barely do it with me. I mean, you think I screw up everything I try. You think I need a chaperone, remember?
Dean: Come on, man. That’s not what I meant.
Sam: No, it’s exactly what you meant. You want to know what I confessed in there? What my greatest sin was? It was how many times I let you down. I can’t do that again.
Dean: Sam —
Sam [beginning to cry]: What happens when you’ve decided I can’t be trusted again? I mean, who are you gonna turn to next time instead of me? Another angel, another — another vampire? Do you have any idea what it feels like to watch your brother just –
Dean: Hold on, hold on! You seriously think that? Because none of it — none of it — is true. Listen, man, I know we’ve had our disagreements, okay? Hell, I know I’ve said some junk that set you back on your heels. But, Sammy — [/i]
And this is not about Dean and Sam sniping at each other. Dean thinks that Sam is directly responsible for Charlie’s death to the point that Sam should take Charlie’s place up on the pyre. In season nine, a big reason for the conflict between the brothers was Sam feeling like coming back from the brink of death had caused other people to get hurt. Dean tried to tell Sam, [i] “No. That is not on you. Kevin’s blood is on my hands,” [/i] but now it’s, [i] “I think it should be you up there and not her.” [/i] I don’t think that Sam “can take it”. He can push it down and compartmentalize but he had a hard time dealing with seeing his hands kill Kevin so he most certainly won’t take Dean saying that Sam got Charlie killed, doesn’t get to apologize, and that Sam should have died in her place as just Dean “dishing out”. Last season, Sam urged Castiel to continue extracting the grace Gadreel had left in him so that they could track the angel down. So great was Sam’s guilt for what had happened to Kevin – even though Sam had been possessed at the time – that Sam didn’t care if the process killed him until Castiel told him that nothing is worth losing Sam. Now Dean will have to try to take back his words and even go further than that and try to convince Sam that Sam is not directly responsible for Charlie getting killed. Otherwise it’s likely that Sam will try to make up for what has happened to the point that Sam will indeed end up dead and Dean will have to give him a hunter’s funeral.
Yeah I dont think people generally react to ‘I wish you were dead’ with ‘ok I’ll stop what I’m doing and not put myself in danger anymore’
Dean has already said that. Sam isnt listening. Deans words of (possibly MOC influenced) anger at the pyre should be a neon light that he needs to stop. Enough damage has been done. If Sam were in his right mind he might see the logic in it, but, in for a penny, in for a pound as they say…
He cannot expect that though no matter how much he can try and dictate any given situation . His own actions in his blind belief in saving Sam at any cost does not give him the mandate to control a situation he himself created.
What exactly did Dean think was going to happen then esp after he made it abundantly clear last season to Sam that he was hurt by what Sam said and was convinced Sam would not save him under any circumstances .Of course Sam was going to go out and try and save him , he was left with no choice as the MOC is not just a danger to him but to others , that he was going to seek any hope and resource he could and seek out the help of friends. Charlies death was tragic but no more than Kevin’s and she understood the situation she did not go in blind .
Dean can blame Sam throw fire and damnation at him all he likes but deep down he cannot hide from the fact that if he had not gone and got the MOC then none of the events that lead to Charlies death would of happened.
Once the BOTD was located and found to not only be connecting with Dean telling him to do evil things but that using the book for the cure would bring consequences of biblical proportions, that is when Sam should have stopped. Dean told him they would find another way. He recognizes it for what it is. He doesnt want Sam or anyone else hurt for the cure. That is what Dean is expecting at this point. Instead of stopping, knowing what he is doing is all kinds of wrong, Sam lies about the book and then foolishly enlists the help of a extremely powerful witch, the mother of the KOH, who just recently would have killed his brother had it not been for the MOC. And brkngs Charlie and Cas into the deceit. Deans not trying to hide from the fact that his actions brought the MOC and the situation they find themselves upon them, he is just trying to handle it the best way possible. Sam and others being hurt for a cure are not an option in Deans eyes.
Dean cannot control it he is not the hero in this particular story , he is the source . Like I said he does not have the mandate to dictate anything it does not matter what he believes or how wrong in his eyes Sam has been or him thinking that telling Sam he wishes he was dead is going to stop any course of events.
There is no moral ground Dean can take there is no ground of any sort he can take , telling Sam that is only going to make things worst not stop anything.
Sam is going to go ahead and do what he wants even though he knows it is wrong anyway. It doesnt matter what anyone, much less Dean says to him. Hubris meet Sam Winchester.
Is that a new Dean-girl buzzword? I’ve seen it being thrown around but it doesn’t seem to apply to what’s being seen on-screen. Sam is desperate, not full of hubris.
Dean isnt trying to control Sam for kicks, hes not trying to control Sam at all. Why must people talk about Sam like hes this little wooby thing that has no will when it comes to big, strong, mean, big brother Dean? Dean is trying to stop Sam from doing this monumentally stupid thing – using the BOTD. And that was before he knew Sam lied. I don’t even think Dean knows yet that Sam is working in totem with Rowena. If that makes him all big bad mean brother Dean to wooby Sam then I say, go for it, Big Bad Bro!
Where have I spoken as if I see Sam has a little wooby thing. I am giving a pov based on comments you made and ones I do not entirely agree with that is all and one,s I would repeat. It is to late for Dean to stop anything and despite what you think he is not being a ‘hero’ here by trying to stop Sam from making a’ stupid’ mistake .
And right now he is not interested in protecting Sam from anything including himself let alone caring about ‘stupid’ mistakes.
Its a collective wooby thing, not saying you specifically. I never used the word hero. I dont consider the fact that Dean is trying to keep Sam from carrying through with a foolish plan that is not only going to affect them but others in a biblical sense heroic, I do consider it a smart move. Right now? No, Sams ignoring his and others warnings has resulted in Dean going on the warpath against the Steins. Afterwards who knows? Dean may lose even more of himself to the MOC as a result. How is Dean supposed to protect Sam when Sam wont even protect himself. You are the one that seems to get hung up on “moral ground”, “being dictated to” and “heroics”. But I get it now. Nothing Dean has done, can do or may do in the future will ever be correct in your eyes. So for you it is a Sam vs Dean thing. Thats not what Im about.
Back to your comment that Sams words had ramifications, what did you think those were? What did Sam’s words do to affect the outcome of the MOC arc for last season. For the life of me I can’t see the reason for them being said at all. Sam never left Dean’s side. They went on hunts same as usual saving each other and others same as usual. Every time Dean was in trouble he called for Sam and Sam came running. Sam’s voice was the only thing that could get through to Dean every time the Blade took him over. Other than a phrase here and there nothing really changed and it really wasn’t addressed. Dean’s words on the other hand I can see will have real consequences for them both since neither brother has ever wanted the other dead and Dean at that moment wanted Sam dead. They look to be split up for this episode, Dean is beyond furious (I don’t think that was the MOC talking), Sam looks to want to shut down his BOTD plan, I can see Dean in his kill everything rage that Crowley/Cas/Sam are all going to be collateral damage. However unless Dean coerces Cas to return the Blade I can’t see him turning back into a demon. Now originally I could see Sam making a biblically stupid decision but I wonder now with Charlie’s death if he is going to take a breath and consider what he is doing. It looks like he wants to shut down his operation but it also looks like Rowena has other plans. I guess we will find out what everyone decides to do in the next 2 episodes. I do hope that TPTB know what they are doing and that they have a plan to dig themselves out of the hole they are digging. Apparently Jensen hopes so too.
I’m sorry, but it doesn’t matter what Sam does or doesn’t do, he can’t win. He either does nothing because Dean keeps telling him to stop and Dean turns into a Demon and they have to lock him up and he tries to bash Sam’s head in with a hammer. Been there, done that. Or he tries everything he can to cure this thing and there is collateral damage and Dean hates him for it, still becomes a demon and blah, Sam’s head smashed in with a hammer. How is Sam supposed to know which brother he’s going to get this season? Is this the “you left me in purgatory and did nothing to save me and Benny’s a better brother” Dean or the “I’m going to fight this MOC until I can’t anymore and you can lock me up, and you should just do nothing about it” Dean?
Seriously, damned if you do and damned if you don’t, Sam is on the losing team with Dean and with this fandom as a whole. I can’t even imagine the hate if Sam had said he wished Dean had died instead of Kevin. And Sam’s words in “The Purge” were not remotely in the same vein as what Dean said.
sylvia37 you are right: sadly, infuriatingly, frustratingly right about everything.
[quote] How is Dean supposed to protect Sam when Sam wont even protect himself. [/quote]
He is not thinking like that since he thinks that Sam should throw himself in the fire.
You actually think that what Sam will take from this is that he needs to stop? All Dean’s doing is driving Sam to suicide. Sam isnt going to stop now, he has no reason to, nothing left to lose, no reason to live so he’s going to cure Dean even if it kills him or he’ll die trying. I dont believe for a second that Dean wouldnt have done exactly what Sam has dont this season if the show was on the other foot and I dont believ for a second that he would stop if Sam said THAT to him. Sam’s in a no win situation here, no back up, no support, he’s going to keep going and I think what spurs him on will be finding out that the cure will be the end of him and no body else.
[quote] Sam isnt going to stop now, he has no reason to, nothing left to lose, no reason to live so he’s going to cure Dean even if it kills him or he’ll die trying. [/quote]
Yeah, if some part of Sam now fears that he has lost Dean i.e. Dean hates him and doesn’t love him anymore, the only thing he can try to do to fix it is by helping Dean get rid of the mark. Dean did not handle it well when he thought that Sam said that he would not try to save Dean if Dean was dying and that they were not brothers anymore. Imagine how Dean would have reacted if Sam had told him that Dean got Kevin killed and can’t make up for it so Dean should be dead instead of Kevin!
[quote] I dont believe for a second that Dean wouldnt have done exactly what Sam has dont this season if the show was on the other foot [/quote]
I agree. Dean thought that Sam would rather die than be possessed by anything, which led to Dean tricking Sam so that Dean could let an angel in Sam. For sure, Dean would not have burned the book if the situation were reversed i.e. it would have been Sam who didn’t want the book even near him but the book contains knowledge that Dean could use to cure his brother, stop him from dying, and turning into a (yellow-eyed) demon.
Like sylvia, you are spot on. Everyone’s panties were in a complete twist because Sam dared express any anger at Dean in the Purge and Sharp teeth- that was enough to turn him into the ungrateful, selfish brother in the eyes of many, even though he continued to act in most respects as a brother would. If he had said that he wished Dean were dead instead of Kevin, I cannot even imagine the amount of Sam-hate that would have been unleashed.
I know I’ve lambasted this show on the odd occasion over the past year or two 😉 but at this point, it’s all in the past.
I’ve watched the various clips from The Prisoner, and I’m amped. I can’t friggin’ wait. It looks like we’re heading for a brother v brother finale. It’s not something I would have ever imagined, nor wanted, but now that we’re there, I hope they go all out and don’t get a gooey and flip it in the last few minutes for hugs and tears.
I want it to be full throttle, balls to the wall, awesomeness.
[img]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/rookskickz/Humour/emilio.gif~original[/img]
Really? The look at me, Im high and crazy! clip from TBC? I wouldve expected Stallone in honor of Eye of the Tiger at the very least… Emilio? 😉
Haha … sorry. Lost in lack of context.
That .gif is a reflection of how [i]I’m[/i] feeling – edge of my seat, can’t sit still. Punching the air.
I’ve already moved on from Charlie. She was inconsistently written – the most notable of which coming from her “creator” RT – so he can quit his bitching, because it was he that threw the character into ridiculousness. The nep-duo corrected that mistake.
For everything bad I’ve ever said about this show, I’m eager as fuck to see what comes next. There’s some narrative nonsense that I couldn’t give two shits about, but at at the core of it all is Sam v Dean. I’m hoping they beat the shit out of each other – without a victor – because after 10 seasons, there’s so much nonsense and tension in the air between these two, no monologue or touchy-feely brother moment will come close to fixing it. They need to start throwing punches, and get it over and done with.
Actually Russ, I’d love to see Soulless Sam and MOC Dean battle it out. Soulless wouldn’t have any of regular Sam’s compunction not to beat some everloving sense into his brother. Actually, what I would really have liked to see was Sam basically telling Dean to suck it, that he was going to do what he had to without the lies and Dean could either get on board and help or get out of the way. I miss that Sam.
What happened to [i] “I’m willing to let this bastard and all the sons of bitches that killed mom walk because of you. Don’t you dare think that there is anything, past or present, that I would put in front of you! It has never been like that, ever!”[/i]? (8.23 [i] Sacrifice[/i]) I hope it’s just the mark influencing Dean to think that Sam should burn for what happened to Charlie and that Sam deserves to be dead in Charlie’s place and that Dean would rather attend Sam’s funeral than Charlie’s.
Co-signed.
My hope is its the MOC. Well have to see how it all plays out by the finale. I fear for both of them but I especially fear for Dean and what he is becoming. It seems like little by little we are losing our Dean permanently.
I think it has to be the MoC.
Dean has always had an unhealthy pleasure out of hunting/killing the supernatural, and he’s always been somewhat of an indignant dick when things don’t go his way.
I think that’s all this is. It’s not that Dean believes what he’s saying. Sure, under normal circumstances he’d be pissed at Sam for what happened, but the MoC is amplifying those feelings to the nth degree, and suppressing his better qualities.
Can he overcome it without magic? Will he be as strong as Sam was when he took control of Lucifer? Who knows.
Russ Thanks Again for your Giff & being brutally honest with your feelings – you are a breath of fresh air. Us Girls can be a handful LOL ( Sorry Girls & Guys ? )
I’m tending to think your right an all out brawl is on the cards 3 yrs of pussy footing around each other is gonna explode. It will clear the air and start S11 afresh.
I believe Dean’s issues run far to deep and have never really been let go off, Where Sam does hold onto things he will let go. ( His sensitive ) So when Sam took Lucy on he could win. I honestly don’t believe Dean is stable enough the MOC will win. I wonder if Sam would drink Demon blood to fight his brother – Sam could never beat him with the MOC
That’s what pisses me off most about the Carver reign. He wrote a scene that was (for me) one of the high points in the brothers’ relationship, and now he has stomped that relationship and turned it into this toxic mess that is unrecognizable as the relationship I fell in love with. And I’m not just referring to tonight’s episode. Their relationship has been off ever since Road Trip, and I’m getting pretty damn sick of it.
I think Carver is an evil twin and he keeps the good one in a closet under lock and key because hes jealous of his earlier successes. Of course I think that Eugenie has a second head growing out of her shoulder who is the elusive writing partner that we never, ever see, so what do I know…
i’m hardly going to take to heart what dean said in an moc rage induced moment…when in the next moment he promises not to kill the stynes, but to kill everyone they ever loved…so i’m going to believe the words of a man who is going to seek out and kill innocents to exact his revenge? i hardly think so:D….is dean angry…i’m sure, is dean naturally falling to his hypocrital ways, is there any doubt? but dean, of sound mind and pissed off beyond all recognition would never wish his brother physical harm…..sam was friggen lucifer and dean couldn’t hurt him….
but moc/demon dean….that’s a whole other monster….and that’s what dean is …a monster….
i agree cheryl, sam feels guilty and will push himself to do what it takes to save dean, regardless of his own life….sam ain’t changing his spots now….but i do see a difference, where once sam would’ve taken what dean said to heart and let it eat away at him….i see that sam realizes that dean is no longer dean, that even sam deep down understands dean didn’t mean what he said, that’s it’s the moc talking…and as much as sam does harbor guilt about charlie and will atone even if it kills him…..i don’t see sam giving up on his brother….not on their relationship, not on their love, which i can see that sam still believes exists. he’s fighting for his brother now….and against what his brother has become.
[quote] but i do see a difference, where once sam would’ve taken what dean said to heart and let it eat away at him….i see that sam realizes that dean is no longer dean, that even sam deep down understands dean didn’t mean what he said, that’s it’s the moc talking… [/quote]
I agree but it could be more like a defense mechanism. It’s easier for Sam to put it all on the mark rather than to examine whether Dean meant it on some level. I could see Dean being so angry because he thinks that Sam got Charlie killed that Dean does think that Sam should be dead instead of Charlie. Dean might even be so mad that he feels like killing his brother. It’s part of human nature to sometimes have those dark thoughts (but not to act on it). Maybe the mark influenced Dean to actually say it to Sam and to feel it to be true instead of it just being a dark thought born out of feeling rage because his friend was killed.