Let’s Discuss: Should Supernatural Writers Adapt Storylines to Binge Viewing Habits?
Today’s “Let’s Discuss” is inspired by a Variety article, which talks briefly about the challenges that show runners have to face these days when breaking their show because viewing habits are shifting toward “binge viewing.” Some are being forced to adapt their style, while others find that’s it’s not beneficial to the story overall to write for viewers that watch all the episodes for a season back to back in one or two sittings.
http://variety.com/2014/tv/awards/binge-viewing-is-forcing-showrunners-to-evolve-1201221668/
Many people found “Supernatural” through Netflix and TNT well after the show premiered, so there was a fair amount of binge viewing catching up with the prior seasons. According to Variety, 70% identify themselves as binge viewers. It’s a fair assumption that a lot of people are still catching up on “Supernatural” the same way.
Some have found that especially in the later seasons, the writing hasn’t been as tight and stories week to week can get too inconsistent. Should “Supernatural” adapt it’s writing to accommodate binge viewing? One of the points raised in the article was that “discontinuities that used to be minor issues stand out a lot more when you’re rolling from one episode to another.”
“Supernatural” especially has very loyal fans that notice when continuity and character behavior is out of whack. Is it more noticeable when watching episodes back to back or does it not matter? Are the issues just as glaring or less glaring when watching every week? Should the writing be more coordinated episode to episode? Or is the writing week to week fine, just the overall plotting needs to some work? Is “Supernatural” acceptable for both week to week and binge viewers?
Or, we could go broader. What do you think of the writer’s continuity episode to episode in general? Are they getting the tone, the characterization, the plotting correct? Is the mixture of standalone to mytharc episodes good, or is the balance not always right? Season four and five skillfully managed to work in the standalone episodes the struggles the characters had with the overall arc of the season. That hasn’t seemed to happen so much in later seasons, or hasn’t been as consistently plotted. Is this problem more noticeable with binge viewing?
What kind of viewing do you prefer? Do you notice things better when going back and watching episodes in consecutive viewings?
Since this is “Let’s Discuss” it’s a free form discussion. The rules are much lighter, but you still need to show respect for other posters. That is still our coveted rule.
Okay, let’s discuss!
I think writers thinking of binge viewing as a model will be a good shift overall, though there’s always the danger of trying a story line that really doesn’t hit at all like the writers expected, with no ability to course correct. But then, there’s not a lot of time to do that anyway in TV, as stories are broken and filmed so far ahead. The benefit is exactly the point Alice made–continuity and poor arcs show up big time, so . . . take care of that in the writing room. It’s possible. The first five years of Supernatural were tightly written. Not perfectly, but overall, very tightly. And that’s because Kripke cared so much about continuity. When Jeremy Carver brought him “In the Beginning,” he read the script while playing the pilot to make sure the story worked with previous history.
I don’t get the feeling that’s Jeremy Carver’s attitude to continuity, nor any of the current writers and it’s a shame. If writers need to communicate more and review past seasons to keep continuity tight due to binge viewers, that’s a plus–and it’s possible. I also think writing for binge viewing will help with the overexposure of writers on social media having an impact on story. If the story needs to be written before it gets released, then it has to stand or fall on the story telling, not on what’s happening on social media. I think so many showrunners are leaving social media because they’ve realized they can’t rely on tweets to give a broad overview of viewers’ opinions and yet it’s very hard not to be affected when bombarded by tweets. I think a little distance benefits writing. You need some silence to work. Not completely, of course, and viewer feedback has its place. But I think that place is from a distance, myself.
I have my own issues and opinions on the story, like most fans. But I think writers need to figure out story balance and characterization issues themselves, because they need to write from a place of truth. If they do that, the story will keep most fans, whether it’s exactly what they wanted/expected or not.
Alice, that is a very interesting subject. I watched the first four seasons of SPN on TNT and so I was getting 10 hours a week with only the weekends to wait for a new episode. Then I binge watched Seasons 5 and 6 in order to be ready for season 7 to start. Season 7 was the first season I watched on a weekly basis and I didn’t enjoy it as much as previous seasons. At the time I wondered if I was dissatisfied because the viewing was so drawn out. That the waiting a week and going through hiatus made the season less fluid for me. Season 7 was also when I first started reading comment sites and I also wondered if that was having a negative affect on how I perceived the show because I felt frustrated with a lot of comments and articles. I had never been invested enough in a TV show before or since to care enough to read about what other people thought.
Supernatural is also the only show in which I watch episodes over and over again. I never watch repeats of other shows. This constant re-watching is probably what makes continuity and canan errors so frustrating and irritating. Because I’ve recently watched the past episodes I catch the errors immediately or get a clear view of how they’ve changed Sam and Dean’s relationship to something it wasn’t before.
I do like binge watching shows though. I think you get a better feel for where the show is going with a story.
First of all, great article, Alice.
And to the point – I originally started watching the show as it aired in season one. I didn’t even have a netflix account at the time 🙂 I actually ended up getting my parents into Supernatural, and that’s when I started noticing the inconsistencies (I watched a few of the episodes with them).
Honestly it doesn’t really bother me. The writers/the show in general seems like it’s slowly become more consistent (at least as far as storyline/lore). On the other hand, with so many people now watching TV shows on-demand, writers do need to worry more about consistency throughout their series. It increases the audience’s immersion and makes things more believable (well, as believable as possible when it comes to Supernatural’s world).
I don’t believe Supernatural has ever lacked binge-worthy writing. Post-Kripke, I’d go as far as to say that it was best viewed in binge form, as the episodes in their standalone form have been consistently lacking. Every episode feels like a race to get to the [i]”brotherly moment”[/i] at the end of each episode – something in itself that has become superfluous.
They’ve become formulaic to a fault.
I could count on one hand the number of episodes in season 6-9 that I could watch on their own and be satisfied. Everything else needs to be watched in binge mode for some any kind of satisfaction, as there’s not enough in each episode to fulfill ones viewing pleasure. They just don’t deliver the way Kripke did. He was a better show-runner. He was a creative person, and that showed in the overall tone of the show – and it didn’t hurt that he had better writers.
Russ, I love your posts. I don’t read every article nor all the comments but you and Donna Noble make me laugh out loud. Yes I spelled it. :p
I don’t think a 22-23 episode season series like Supernatural would lend itself to this format. Granted, I did binge watch Supernatural on TNT and Amazon streaming to “catch up” on the show but, IMO, the binge watching format lends itself to series with 8-12 episodes per season. As far as the continuity errors, that’s a separate matter entirely. Eric Kripke cared a lot about this, and even Sera Gamble did, but Jeremy Carver appear to be in the “eff it” camp and doesn’t bother trying. And that’s really the shame of it; we’ve seen what the writers are capable of, particularly in S4/S5, tying standalone episodes in to the overall mytharc, writing the brothers in a consistent and logical manner There were serious continuity and plotting/pacing issues in S9; there were a lot of good episodes in S9 but, at the end of the season, the sum of their parts just didn’t add up.
Very interesting article Alice, thank you. As far as should the writers be more concerned with binge viewing versus regular weekly viewings, in regards to Supernatural, I don’t think it really matters. I have watched since day 1, and others binge watched, and yet the majority of us will notice the continuity errors and out of character actions. The issues are just as glaring either way. As others and yourself have stated, the seasons were more tightly designed and written in the first 5 years. Kripke was good at making sure things made sense. Season 6 and 7 under Sera’s reign they were not as good, but still okay. However, Carver, yep, he has managed to butcher so much in regards to continuity and characterizations. I don’t think these last two seasons have been as tightly woven together in the overall arcs and themes of the year. Storylines have been dropped or not given more attention. We have had too many one-shot episodes that don’t really deal with the overall themes of the year. Whereas in the Kripke era, almost all of the episodes dealt in one way or another with the overall themes and helped to move those themes along. This last year we seemed to have been stuck in the same place all year long with the angel SL, (and others) until the final episodes that blasted us with stuff. There were too many, although some were fun, insignificant one-shot episodes that really didn’t do much for the overall themes. Probably upon binge-watching those errors will be more glaring.
All in all I think the writers need to stop paying attention to the fans on social media. They need to concentrate on the stories and develop episodes that “fit together” in a whole for the season. They also need to pay better attention to Canon. When we get inconsistencies from Canon that takes the viewer out of the episode and can ruin the episode or season for many people. I know of a lot of fans that have quit watching because of all the Canonical errors. They just couldn’t take it anymore. I know I do, and I am sure others do as well, care about Canon and that a fact of Canon that was given to us in Season 2 isn’t being destroyed or contradicted in Season 8. The plotting has not been consistent, and I for one, would appreciate a greater attention to detail in the show than has been given of late.
My offspring brought Supernatural home from school this past summer. So I did nothing but watch SPN for two solid months (seriously, nine seasons (several episodes repeatedly if I really liked them) and lots of comicons on YouTube-it’s exhausting and daunting). That’s a whole lot of information and “Mythology” (most people use the word “canon”) to absorb. As a binger I found myself more forgiving I think of character inconsistencies (I generally thought “well, it’s not like I had a week to let the details marinate and re-define the person”). People are allowed to change and grow or go a different direction so I don’t get all worked up with “Out-Of-Character” moments. I WANT to characters to grow. So what you say here really resonates. IMhO the hyper-reactivity to fandom feedback really hampers the show. There’s always a faction that adjust to change at a snails pace and some won’t like anything new. Principally the reaction to women on the show. In part this is all on the writers. You DON’T introduce a female as a “love interest” for godsake, you introduce her as a PERSON. I think it was easier to write for Charley when the “they might have sex” potential was taken off the table. Not every heterosexual female on the planet wants to “screw a Winchester”-most maybe, but not ALL. I like the Hannah character (also introduced in press as a potential “love interest”) but how much more interesting would it have been if she were human? A good old-fashioned “forbidden love” story line would go a long way (Buffy/Angel) in character development. Is it that difficult to have maybe a team of competent female hunters (Arrow) that they work with occasionally but don’t screw? My son happened to catch the “Krissy the teenage hunter” episode with me and he was all “Brick Fuckin’ Master” when he saw it. My guess is that they were taking a page from “The Last of Us”, a HUGELY popular game with the young adult male population to try to draw in those male viewers. I LOVED the way that Dean treated her like a younger version of himself (as opposed to a younger FEMALE version of himself). And I think that “mentor” relationship would open up a whole different side to the brothers. I’m also guessing that the female fandom went collectively to the gutter on that almost instantly. Another writing misstep: kissing Dean on the cheek was misleading to that intent. Women like foreplay guys-don’t throw people into bed together on day one and then expect us to love them in the morning. I’ve strayed from my point, but it’s this-if people don’t love a character right away maybe back off and give it time instead of running away like you found a snake in your boot.
I am a binge watcher. It started years ago when I just didn’t feel like watching commercials any more, so I stopped watching tv altogether (except baseball). It was five years before I had the chance to watch ST-TNG and about that long for X-files because I just didn’t have time.
Then recordings to tape happened, followed by TVs that could pause and fast forward, then of course DVR and iTunes and so many options now.
But still, i never watch live (except baseball), hell, I can watch the Oscars in 15 minutes!
Supernatural was the same for 5 plus years. Then in season 6 I started watching weekly (recording so I could fast forward). It was fun and it was the only show I’d rush to watch as soon as possible after it aired. But honestly, that was because of the fandom, this website, the videos and reports at cons make it impossible to not hear or see spoilers.
While I don’t want to miss what you all have to say, I think I need to go back to the old way and do the binge watching. And that means reading fewer articles, watching fewer vids, and following fewer twitterers.
Having said that, it is long past the time when tv productions start rethinking how viewers watch the show. The stale way that some shows put in a cliffhanger no longer serves a purpose. They can actually release each episode every other week which would lessen the down times. There are many options and one of those they must keep in mind is bingees. This, however, can lead to a movie type production which is a bad idea (meaning we don’t see the finished product for years). Filming should continue as usual, but the writing can be done in advance.
I think it would be so much more productive if approved for 23 episodes, they write 23 then film 23 then release as usual. Then the season can be judged as a whole. Most tv series have some sucky episodes depending upon what you like (I hate soapy stuff put into my crime drama, I hate drama put into my crime comedy (Castle) I hate stupid things that are the trend (serial killers stalking the team, killing their family…enough) and it is possible I could and have completely stopped watching a show because of a piece of crap too many.). And I hate cliffhangers, I think they are insulting the viewers when they do it, like you’re too stupid to come back so here’s a reason. Sorry, who shot JR is old and tired (and it was stupid then but I never watched that show) stop it. When there’s a cliffhanger I stop watching (unless it’s SPN which I expect because of the nature of the show…but I still don’t like it.)
After reading that Kripke cleaned up season endings because he wasn’t sure he’d be renewed, I dread knowing what he actually had in store. If season 2 hadn’t ended one story and started another I might not have come back. I hate cliffhangers. But everyone does it, sort of insurance-if I do this they’ll have to renew- either that or it’s what the studio thinks will keep um coming back. Its not, so just stop it.
So yes, I think they need to start rethinking how viewers will watch, I think they need to do a lot of rethinking. I have the most time to watch tv and get caught up…on Christmas holiday!! Yet I get nothing, and since my dvr is just as likely to up n delete recordings, sometimes I really get nothing. (Dvr deleted the first half of sn9 before I could do a rewatch…). So, 90% of my tv show watching is binge because I am impatient. I would rather wait for the season to end and watch it all at once, even if that leaves me with a gawd awful cliffhanger. Honestly I never thought SPN would go on this long so it’s kinda messed me up. And I don’t credit Kripke or blame Carver. Kripke has admitted to what he wanted to do and it would have sucked. Kinda like listening to Whedon about Firefly and what he had planned…yuck!
Sometimes it’s the season they’re given that dictates and I am grateful Kripke didn’t know he was renewed so he could end each season and close things, the problem with Carver years is he’s pretty much been given a green light to dangle these threads until the last possible moment and he is doing just that, the thinking is wrong, and the result is more miss than hit.
Yes, everything should be considered: weekly live watching, bingers, and repeated watching. We see everything now, again and again. So much different from only having one chance to view and if you missed the day and time you might get another chance during the summer repeats, then gone.
Little did I know I would be able to have the whole DVD set of wild Wild West or the man from uncle, and I would be able to pick out every little mistake that I was not able to see on the first run (yes…old…me). There’s simply no excuse for it now. There is time, plenty of time to get it right or be picked apart, so now stop trying to smash these shows into the same old box. Seasons can be shorter or longer or be aired on different Nights of the week or stretched out over the whole freakin year! For those of you who remember the original Colombo that shared a time slot with McMillan and wife, McCloud and another show. It was also 90 minutes. It was heralded as thinking outside the box and was a great success that no one else ever ran with (and should have) until cable came around. I’ve thought that SPN could have greatly benefited from something like this, fewer but longer episodes. But omg that would be too different!
Networks are still talking about “lead ins” and ratings like that means actual viewers (it doesn’t, it means more advertising money because live viewers actually watch the commercials). Therefore the whole advertising thing needs to be reexamined too, but that’s a different subject.
The continuity has more to do with knowing the story and knowing the character arcs. Not just what will happen to the characters (Dean will f….up and smash an angel into Sam, then guilt ridden, take on the MOC) but the psychological arc (Sam feels angry and betrayed here, but will not abandon his brother) even if the arc is never spoken at least the writers should know what it is, how the characters feel about events and each other so that it can be shown visually. Since Kripke left we’ve had weeble-wobble on both Sam and Dean, one writer sees Dean as a drunken, apathetic hypocrite, another sees him as the gung-ho self sacrificing brother. The writers room needs consensus on HOW the boys are feeling, that in turn will make reading the script different, (why does Sam say this when he actually feels like this?). Binge watching has nothing to do with this, if they can’t agree on the psychological or emotional season arc at the beginning it doesn’t matter how it is watched.
Thisoldbag – well put. I don’t things will really change much though because weekly ratings decide who gets money from advertisers and who stays on the air. Even the premium channels like HBO parcel out shows to keep you subscribing. Binge watching does eliminate cliff hangers though if you are a few seasons back but that only lasts so long. I love the longer but fewer episodes idea and watched all of those shows!
I’m not sure who Jeremy Carver and the current writers are writing for but I’m pretty sure it’s not me.
Maybe not in my lifetime but I think Binge will be the only way to watch tv. I must say I prefer it. I just hate waiting. We could all die today forget about tomorrow. Everything just syncs up perfectly. Things you might miss watching week to week or forget.
I also binge watched S1-5 and watched live from 6 on. Even though I “found” the show in S5 it was the middle of the season and I wanted to watch from the beginning. EK definitely had a story to tell and he had an incredible group of talented writers to write the episodes. Listening to the audio commentary with BE, JC, SG and EK you could really tell who his favorite writers were. He probably didn’t have to tweak the scripts very much at all. We will never know unless someone comes out with a tell all book about how the scripts were managed. I am sure that JC and RS care very much about the show and are trying to put out a show that is entertaining for everyone. What format that needs to be I couldn’t guess? I would think that for now they have to write within the constraints of an hour long show w/commercials. I will admit having binge watched it does take me out of the flow of the episode when not only are there commercials there are sometimes weeks between episodes. It does disrupt the flow of a serialized tv show.
I don’t know what the showrunner duties are so I don’t know how much re-writing of scripts JC can really do. I think a lot of us know that he can write a beautiful story but I wonder how he can get other writers without his talent or the talent of the fantastic writers of the past to elevate their level of writing to match his I would think that he wishes his vision is being told better. I don’t know how long before an episode airs that the scripts are handed in and how much time they have to re-write or tweak them so I don’t know if anything can be done to fix the current issues. I am sure there are several people here who can explain the process to those of us that haven’t got a clue how shows are put together. I for one would really welcome that kind of information so I don’t defend a system that is really being handled poorly and not just the best that can be done given what they have to work with.
I have found the best television programs are mapped out before the first script is written. Mostly drama’s or dramdy’s. That’s how they throw in current event quips. The overall outline, and what points to hit where, are usually Done. I heard EC say that RUBY was always going to be a turncoat. So I think SPN may OUTLINE the entire season as well.
Cheryl42, Jeremy Carver has a great deal of power over scripts, even tho time is tight. Writers need to do several pass throughs from initial pitch to final script and Jeremy Carver sees them all and approves them. When Kripke was there, he had issues with Raelle Tucker, who started out writing as a team with Sera Gamble. She clashed with Kripke so much, she ended up leaving the show, going to True Blood. She talked about Supernatural, saying Kripke was overbearing in the way he wouldn’t let her follow her own interests in regard to theme and insisted her scripts should follow his vision and season outline. He would give her scripts back and tell her to rewrite. He also toned down some things in even Jeremy Carver’s scripts, which were strong. In “In the Beginning,” Carver made the seventies theme way bigger and Kripke made it more subtle. They talk about it on the DVD extras. Carver says toning it down was the right choice.
On the other hand, time is tight and even Kripke said a few scripts went out that weren’t strong – he didn’t like Red Sky at Morning. He pretty clearly didn’t like the racist truck eppie, either. But those scripts were far from the rule.
I wish Carver was modeling himself after Kripke, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. So many things get out that are either wrong or just silly, and the arcs are poorly managed.
Thank you Gerry. I had no idea how long it takes for a script to go from the writers room to filming the episode. So do you think then that it is more mishandling the storyline and not so much the talent of the writers on the show? If Jeremy Carver has time to re-write each script I’m surprised (because I love his scripts) that the end product isn’t more cohesive. Is this a case of JC is a much better writer than show runner? I would hate to lose him for the show there are so few writers left that I really look forward to. But maybe if the show goes on past 10 who would be a better show runner assuming EK won’t be back?
I appreciate you taking the time to answer my post. I have enjoyed this season but I do see the flaws.
So sorry I missed your reply! Probably too late now, but just in case: I don’t think Carver has time to rewrite a script himself–I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear about that. He does have to approve every step in the process for every script and he can make suggestions to the writer. My own suspicion, which is just an opinion, is that Carver is a better writer than showrunner, just as Sera Gamble was, though probably for different reasons. Most of the current writers I think have talent, though no one seems to have Edlund’s combination of story sense and creativity, but then, not a lot of writers do. I do wish Carver kept a firmer hand on story and dialogue tone, because that’s all over the place. And he needs to work out arc pacing. #wishlistforseason10
I thought he did a good job on Being Human but he was a showrunner with his wife. And that was a shorter season. I still would hate to lose his writing on SPN.
If they go another season or 2 maybe they will bring in new people since the rumor is that Robert Singer is leaving the show and JC’s 3 year contract (?) will be up. I hope the J’s will on board for a huge regime change or we might not go past S10.
You are very right, the statuses of Robert Singer and Jeremy Carver are very much up in the air. Jeremy Carver was brought in to execute a three year plan starting in season 8. Season ten is the end of that plan and the end of his contract. Still, the network and Warner Brothers are very high on a season eleven and beyond. This is a franchise they want to continue as long as they can. Eric Kripke has a contract with Warner Brothers and it’s extremely possible that he’d be brought back into the fold if no one else was left to run the show. Otherwise, the next person in line is Adam Glass. I’m not sure I really like that idea. He struggles with the big picture far worse than Gamble or Carver ever did.
Jared and Jensen will sign if the right amount of money and promises of time off are thrown at them and if everyone on the crew wants to keep the show going. They’re a family. But yes, the turmoil in the writer’s room will be an interesting one.
I was afraid you would say that Adam Glass was possibly next in line. His episodes aren’t the worst but they are not my favorite. Can we campaign for EK?
Aaack, Alice, first you gave me a heart attack at the idea of Kripke returning (oh please, oh please) and then you mentioned Adam Glass as showrunner (oh no, oh no). Really, if they go with Glass, they may as well rename this show, because it won’t be Supernatural. I wonder if Jensen and Jared will finally decide it’s time to park the Impala, money or no money. I know CW and WB will want to keep the show going if ratings hold up in season 10 but if J2 really care about the show as a legacy as they say they do, they must know every regime change takes the show farther away from its roots. And Jensen at the least has been getting good offers for other roles w/o him hustling for them.
I read one analysis from a connected fan which said if season 10 was not announced as the last season, then J2 have signed on for more seasons already. But I notice there’s been no announcement yet. If Singer and Carver are up in the air, maybe nobody except Misha has signed? What do you think, Alice? Do you think J2 are holding out to find out exactly who would be in charge and what the vision is? And surely to goodness they would finally ask for producer status.
I agree with Gerry & Alice. I’m probably the only “connoisseur” on the site for all SPN paraphernalia out of show (though nightsky is catching up) and the best books you can always tell are the ones where the writer took an idea, and bent & shaped it to fit into the SPN universe while the worst ones are those that bend the SPN universe to fit the story the author wants to tell. It’s one of the reasons I think KRAD is one of the best tie-in authors because he really makes the ideas FEEL like they are a part of the world. My fan project ([url]”http://spnverse.wordpress.com/”[/url]) doesn’t have any additional contributors (yet) but I’m guessing that if any do join in, work will have to be done to make sure their work fits into the world. One certainly gets the sense from the show runners that Kripke was strict about writers playing by the rules of HIS sandbox while Carver either doesn’t care or is unable to gel the diverse visions into a cohesive whole. (Gamble I wonder about since, with Kripke staying on as EP he might have had a hand in her keeping things on track.) As I heard one comic book writer put it: “These are other people’s toys, you have to put them back when you’re done.” As I join the other writers in the S9 rewatch, I can almost sense those writers who honored and took good care of the “toys” – putting them up neatly – when their episode was done, vs those who just didn’t care what happened or even if anybody else was going to have to pick up the pieces.
I still say that SPN could survive as an anthology show but the time to do that was after S5, with each creator bringing in their new “protagonists” to handle their chosen arcs (Dr Who survived changing out William Hartnell after all). But now that J2 have gone through THREE show runners the chance to do this well and pull it off well enough to keep ratings up gets more remote.
They always save those announcements for Comic Con. So if J&J are signed for real, it will be said so there. Otherwise, it probably hasn’t happened in an official capacity yet.
No offense to Adam Glass, but please lord no. I don’t think any of the current writing staff would be a good fit as showrunner.
Kripke (or Edlund, maybe?) – to bring the show back to its core…. but I’d honestly rather it end, than have any other hands on the wheel. (sorry)
Edlund will never be a showrunner. He’s not showrunner material and has never desired such a position. As for Adam Glass, I think that would damage the show. He’s so clueless when the comes to characterization and blending together overall arcs. He’s all about the throwbacks and shout outs and giving us “the feels” rather than building a comprehensive story. He does give us some decent MOTW aspects, but that’s not the core of the show. He really tries, but he just doesn’t get it a lot of the time. If Singer and Carver did leave, and Kripke passes, it’s my guess they’ll bring in someone from the outside before promoting within with this bunch. But hey, it’s way too early for all of that speculation.
Alice, now that True Blood is ending would Raelle Tucker be available? She obviously has success producing True Blood and I always felt like she had a good feel for both Sam and Dean. She wrote some of my favorite episodes. Or has she moved beyond the CW with True Blood? I know this is way premature, but we had some real talent that moved on to do some well regarded shows. I would really worry about Adam Glass becoming show runner. OTOH, I thought Carver would be good and I’ve been less than thrilled with his tenure.
I hope the spin off took Dabb out of consideration, should Singer and Carver leave. Carver I’m on the fence about — it’s possible season ten will really pull the over all arc together. But even if it does, it won’t change the rocky road the journey has been, so as a showrunner, there are issues in my eyes. But Singer I think has been the voice reminding everyone what the central operating principle of Supernatural is. And I think he’s a really good director – Heart reminded me how well put together his eps are. Without him, I really don’t see anyone having the vision to keep the series centered. So for me, losing Singer would be a huge blow.
How about John Shiban? Is he still around? He was a producer at one point as well as a writer.
Alice, I did not answer your central question. I feel that the SPN writers have catered to much to fans. OVERALL. TPTB Should have a vision and stick to it but writing the episodes to flow well together should be everyone’s Goal.
Let me clear that up. I think Metatron was TPTB telling us to shut up and enjoy the story. After they capitulated to much so to the fans. Everything’s all fraked up now.
Oh definitely, Alice, I think writers need to adapt storylines towards the type of audience they have now…. to binge watchers, to online streamers, as well as catering to the live watchers. There are SO many ways now to watch TV shows. I think the whole industry needs to adapt, but I honestly have no idea how they would do that. Binge/DVD/online watching often eliminates the commercials, so how do the shows make money for the networks? If half the viewers are watching reruns on TNT, how do networks plan for future season programming? How do they know which shows to renew?
I sure has heck would not want to be a studio head, or a show-runner trying to deal with these issues today.
As far as a seasons plot is concerned, a well thought-out, well executed, cohesive season long story arc (that never, ever ignores its own canon) SHOULD be the only thing necessary….That SHOULD hold together no matter what type of viewer is watching. Early seasons SPN seemed to be able to achieve that a lot better than these last seasons. Why? I don’t know, but it HAS to reflect back on the head honcho, doesn’t it? No matter what the reasons for “less effective” seasons, the blame lands on the shoulders of the showrunner. Sorry, Carver.
Oh, and NOLANOLA: As far as Metatron telling the audience to shut up and enjoy the show? That strikes me as the worst possible kind of hubris. Yes, the writers have done a LOT of fan-catering lately, and it has NOT worked in their (or the shows) favour – mostly because canon simply doesn’t support it, imo. But to tell your consumer to shut up? To not provide something they are willing to “buy”? To insult your consumer? When you’re providing a product that has no other market??? Doesn’t seem like a sound business model to me. I SURE hope that isn’t the message they intend to send.
ETA: I’m a binge watcher AND a live watcher – often for the same show. I notice canon AND character screw-ups both ways. Enough of them, and I bale. My time is precious, and if the shows I’m watching don’t respect that, I’m gone.
I don’t know about all that, but I think that new writers, or writers not familiar with the show should themselves binge watch the show from the pilot eppy on so that they might get a better handle on the characterizations of the boys. more importantly I think the writers need to start tying stand alones with the myth arc so all the eps flow into ea other and even though you’re not viewing a myth arc ep, you don’t feel like it’s simply a “filler ep”, which a lot of people seem to think eps that aren’t myth arc related are.
[b]st50[/b] – Well said.
I don’t think the writers are good enough, and I don’t think Carver’s as astute a show-runner as this show needs – especially heading into its 10th season. He’s not saying [i]”no, that’s not good enough. Try again”[/i].
I’m not sure how some of these standalone episodes got the green light.
Not to keep harping on the Kripke years, but there’s a distinct lack of cohesion episode to episode (and sometimes even scene to scene within a singular episode) post-Kripke, and that’s something that just wasn’t evident in seasons 1-5.
Also, I have to ask (and sorry if it’s a thread derailment), but what are the main canon concerns people keep referring to? I’ve noticed a few oddities here and there, but nothing I’ve been overly concerned with.
My biggest gripe, and one that made me want to kick the TV, was the Bloodlines travesty, in which shifters simply morphed instead of shedding skin. That’s been my only truly WTF moment.
BLOODLINES was temporary insanity. It does not exist like season 6 of HIGHLANDER.
I agree with nappi, the ones who need to binge watch are the writers (and the show runner himself needs a refresher IMO). Then maybe they could write consistent well plotted, character driven stories that respect canon and create tense and watchable, compelling drama. Then it won’t matter how us viewers view the show; once a week, online or in marathon binges multiple episodes at a time, because the story will work and keep viewers of all types engaged. If the story works, it can be viewed in any way and be satisfying. Case in point; seasons 1-5; they were conceived to be viewed once a week, but are just as satisfying in a multi-episode binge and tend to be the episodes that I re-watch the most.
I’ve watched weekly since The Pilot and I binge watch the dvds; mostly seasons 1-5 and especially seasons 1-3 which will always be my favourites. Sadly, I don’t think the show works for me whatever way I watch it right now, the writing just isn’t good enough. There have been too many issues with continuity, characterisation/POV, plotting, compelling storylines/arcs and good balance of mytharc and standalones. I miss a lot of the old writers and I [i]really[/i] miss Sera Gamble. If the writers work on these issues then the show will work, whatever way it’s watched.
I 100% agree with nappi and E that the writers need to binge watch previous seasons. I also wish the writers would leave Twitter.