My 2014 New Year’s Resolution: Back To Basics For The Winchester Family Business
Itās January 1st, 2014, and as I sit here at my laptop reflecting on the year gone past, I realize 2013 wasnāt a very good year at The Winchester Family Business. Sure, the site itself has been continuing to grow and weāve become a place to visit for a whole new realm of fans, not to mention weāve continued to do a lot creative work in the spirit of promoting āSupernatural.ā The problem is, in the reaction of the day to day craziness of this restless fandom and the constant other challenges that a fan site goes through, weāve managed to lose our way.
Really Iāve lost my way, which isnāt very good when youāre the face of the site. This year has presented me with many challenges and the end result has been more frustration than pride over celebrating my love for the best TV show on the planet. Itās resulted in my losing control of my site, and letting things happen I swore would never happen when I started all this.
For those that arenāt familiar, the year started with bad server issues. It was obvious weād outgrown our shared server, but changing would mean more cost as well as going through a very painful and difficult upgrade – one that basically required me to rebuild the site from scratch. After much planning and testing we (myself and my hubby, aka The WFB technical team) did that and moved to the new server in June. It was a spectacular failure. The new server had major issues with our traffic and setup and after two months instead of working with us to improve the situation they kicked us off. For two days in September, just weeks before the āSupernaturalā season nine premiere, I thought I had lost the site for good. Luckily, we still had our old server to fall back on and my very smart hubby managed to get our data back. We had to go back to the old server and basically run on pins and needles until I could come up with a better solution. That new install only happened last week. Iām hoping to finally put that all behind me. So far, so good.
Fighting technical issues is super hard though when the fandom starts imploding around you too. A year ago we were celebrating The SPN Family being named best fandom at the Peopleās Choice Awards and seeing Jared and Jensen finally get their due on national TV. Their outfits were adorable! We were a jubilant staff, and at one point we fans were united in harmony, loving our show and the lead actors that we all adore. Then it all sort of crashed, much like our server.
Iāve always sought to isolate myself from the uglier parts of the fandom, and this site was created in hopes of providing others that isolation. But because we grew so much here at The Winchester Family Business, I tried for us to be all things to all fans. Fans started going negative, or at least we started seeing that negative side of the fandom more. Constant wars between Sam fans, Dean fans, Castiel fans, Destiel shippers, Wincest shippers, brothers only fans kept following us wherever we went. Or wherever I went. I found my love for the show and this fandom fading fast.
Perhaps because I was too busy with those technical gremlins, I wasnāt around to drive the vision on which we were built, the happy fan safe haven that wanted to just settle in and love our show. I couldnāt protect the site from this negativity. Comments on the site were overloaded with negative and repetitive complaints, ones that I no longer had time to moderate. Writers were writing less, happy regulars stopped visiting and commenting because they were getting squeezed out by the negativity. Our environment had turned into the poisonous, joyless place that I had sought to avoid when I created this site. And I was fighting most of these battles alone. The unhappy environment was driving away writers and my admins too (that and real life).
I also spent a lot of time on Twitter this year, and while for the most part I was able to engage with happy fans, when something happened that fans didnāt like, it was an all out ambush at times. Fans would attack in waves, five or ten all repeating the same terrible comments. Sometimes I couldnāt share a simple piece of news without someone commenting, āWhat about Sam?ā or āWhat about Dean?ā or āWhat about Castiel?ā I admit the sour mood often times resulted in me giving sour responses, which is not fair to happy fans. It certainly reminded me itās easy to turn off your filter on a place like Twitter. Iāve been avoiding it recently, at least under the Winchester Family Business account. Weāre just going to keep sharing news and links for a while.
All of this lack of joy was reflected in my writing as well. I just couldnāt write about āSupernaturalā anymore. It wasnāt thrilling me like other shows out there. My articles were dull and repetitive, and even angry at times. I ended up spending more time at our sister site (and the other site I created), TV For The Rest of Us, because honestly I was having more fun there. We just want to talk about TV there. Thereās no fandom bulls*** dragging us down over there. As a matter of fact, I thought maybe I should roll The Winchester Family Business into TV For The Rest of Us. That way, I could be the administrator of only one site, not two. That idea was quickly nixed though when I realized I could never bring the SPN Fandom drama to TV For The Rest of Us. It would consume that site.
I tried to keep up a good front, but it just got too hard. My dear friends Lynn and Kathy after years of hard work finally had their book āFangasm: Supernatural Fangirlsā published. I was thrilled to see them finally hit this achievement and I knew how much this meant to them. It was one of the greatest achievements of their lives. When I read though, instead of feeling that joy and pride of being part of this extraordinary experience, instead of celebrating my role in the Supernatural fandom, I felt sick and wanted off this fandom ride. It had consumed me and too much of my life. I didnāt want to tell the world it was okay to act this way anymore. I wanted to tell everyone to get a life.
On top of that, I went to Chicago con this year, a con Iāve attended every single year, and I had a miserable time. A lot of that was fueled by issues happening in my personal life, but truth be told, these cons arenāt the intimate experiences they once were for me. Theyāve gotten too big, and thereās just something I didnāt enjoy about paying $175 to spend a weekend in the back of a giant ballroom and not be able to hear the guests because of the crappy sound system. The schedule was so packed, it was hard to gather with friends at any given time and talk. Then during my live tweets, some fans jumped on me for being biased and telling it wrong, even though I was quoting what was said verbatim (what I could hear anyway). It was the equivalent of shooting the messenger. What I once found thrilling was just plain annoying now.
Come the end of the first half of āSupernaturalā season nine, I just didnāt have anything left. I knew that I still had to do a server move for The Winchester Family Business and TV For The Rest of Us, as well as put TV For The Rest of Us through the same painful upgrade that nearly destroyed the Winchester Family Business months earlier. During this time, we had a key staff member quit, one that I relied on for so much in keeping this site afloat and helping me in the admin area. Suddenly I was evaluating priorities.
Sweetondean represented everything that I wanted this site to be. She was always upbeat, constructive, happy, funny, and no matter what maintained her faith in āSupernatural.ā The negative fandom got to her though, and she just couldnāt write for these ungrateful, very mean fans anymore. Her loss has been utterly devastating to me, and suddenly I was thinking this site was done.
I so wanted to write something positive, go back to the days of when I unconditionally loved the show and could inspire others. That opportunity came when a fan who I deeply respected asked if someone on this site would write something praising Jensen. She wasnāt wrong that a piece like that needed to be done. A few months ago we ran a piece from Nightsky called āDear Jared.ā It was a monster hit, and it was well deserved praise of what Jared brought to the show. I really wanted to do something positive like that for Jensen, if anything to remind me why I fell in love with this show in the first place. I decided as editor-in-chief that this task should fall on me, plus I thought it would be good for me. Get me out of my funk. I knew that since it was a piece focused solely on Jensen, it could bend out of shape those fans that love creating the Jared vs. Jensen wars that weāve fought long and hard to avoid here. I was ready for that. I wasnāt ready for what really happened.
You know what the biggest frustration as a writer is? The fact that youāll write 2,000 plus words of amazing, thoughtful, awe inspiring stuff and people get bent out of shape over three words in a sentence. In my case, a title. With my editor-in-chief hat on, I threw together a title in 30 seconds that I knew would be good SEO and would praise Jensenās extraordinary talents. I didnāt give it much thought, because it was only a damned title. Itās the most meaningless part of the whole piece.
No, even loyal people on this site who knew me jumped on me right away, cursing me for dissing Jared and creating the worst ever possible insult with that title. Suddenly thereās an ambush on Twitter, LiveJournal, Facebook, Tumblr, etc, as well as the comments here. People who have known my pro Sam/Jared work for years were suddenly blasting me for hating the guy and assuming he would actually be offended by the title! Considering how many times Iāve met and interviewed Jared and Jensen over the years and knowing how much he and Jensen love praising each otherās work, I knew that wasnāt a true statement, but fans ran with it anyway. Once again, some fans took something completely positive done out of love and twisted it into something awful. I figured that was the final nail in the coffin. I was ready to announce that The Winchester Family Business was done.
This almost became my farewell message. But I took a few weeks to reflect and carefully consider my decision.
I remembered when I was roped into a fan award initiative for Jared a few years ago with other fan sites when Jensen and Misha had just won TV Guide fan awards but Jared didnāt get any personal awards. He was just part of the overall win for āSupernatural.ā Some avid Jared fans thought that wasnāt fair and wanted to change that. I personally didnāt think Jared needed the award because I knew he was very happy for Jensen and Misha, but I stuck with the project since it was done with good intent and I thought it would unite the fandom. Instead, many fans openly blasted us for being āsore losers.ā But we did it anyway and Jared was thrilled with the award. But it was yet another initiative that was spurned because of this āequalityā mentality that exists in this fandom. Jensen canāt get an award and not Jared. Iām not allowed to call Jensen āthe heart and soul of Supernaturalā without saying the same thing about Jared.
I suddenly realized, I donāt get it, I never will, and I donāt ever I want to. This isnāt kindergarten. Life isnāt equal or fair, and any attempts to do otherwise will just drive me to insanity.
Iāve taken a new resolve, which is technically my old resolve. Instead of hiding my head in the sand, Iām going back to the reason I started all this. I have always hated the hypersensitivity of this fandom. I started the Winchester Family Business on a foundation of common sense. Fan bickering and nitpicking offends me and Iāve completely had enough of it. Snap judgements leave very little benefit of the doubt for people who truly love and praise this show. It throws common sense out the window.
I donāt care if we offend people anymore. Why? Because no matter what, someone will find a reason to be offended by whatās said or done. The negative fan ambush mentality that exists makes it impossible to be a writer for this fandom anymore. Iām not just talking about myself either. Writers for Supernatural in general are suffering from the same issues. The oversensitivity and quick to express outrage is creating nothing but misery. Fans anymore are searching for secret messages where there are none, trying to read between the lines when no such subversion exists, and creating mountains out of molehills often in a super negative and cynical light and for what? I honestly have no idea.
Iām taking back The Winchester Family Business. I know most fans arenāt like this. Iāve had a lot of people express support for me in the last few months too, and itās those people that I do this for. That is the answer anytime I ask myself, āWhy do I do this?ā There is good in this fandom.
I wonāt tolerate the excessive negativity anymore. When this site first started, it was just me giving positive yet constructive opinions. It was a happy site for fans that didnāt want to get caught in the horrible, vicious side of fandom. That kind of mentality caught on, because I attracted a rather level headed base was also able to attract an incredible set of writers with a variety of talents. I still think thereās room for that in our fandom. Itās my extreme desire to go back to those days.
I see 2014 as a do over. Back to basics. Back to the days when we were happy fans. Back when I was a happy fan. Back to the days when we were positive but constructive in our criticism and respected each other. This wonāt be a site for everyone. Iām okay with that. This is not a Sam site, or a Dean site, or a Castiel site. Itās a āSupernaturalā fan site. A happy āSupernaturalā fan site. If anyone perceives differently, you have a right to that opinion, but it wonāt ruin our fun. The Winchester Family Business represents the level headed, rational fans that love our show and respect other fans, ones that arenāt going to get bent out of shape over every little thing. We refuse to read between the lines, and weāre giving benefit of the doubt.
I used to think that every opinion mattered. I canāt believe that anymore. This fandom is too passionate and too unable to control their outrage over things. I donāt want to hear your opinion if itās poisonous or spewing hate and frustration. The anonymity of the internet has created monsters per se (no, Iām not calling any one individual or fandom group a monster), and in order to curb the beast, I have to hide from it. This is going to be my happy place again. Iām going to live here in ignorant bliss, and you are welcome to join me if thatās what you want as well.
I ask of all of you, please take time to think if this is a site you want to be a part of. If it is, fantastic, you are welcome here with open arms. If you want to walk away, I will understand. Criticism and open discussion is still allowed here, but it has to be constructive and in a positive tone. Tempers, back biting, insults, and the constant repeating of the same complaints will be checked at the door. I donāt want to hear it.
I wonāt edit any comments for this article. Feel free, get it all out. Take out all your frustrations and hate on me, whatever you feel like. And then thatās it. The days of excessive negativity, temper fueled discussions, and disrespect is over. Weāre back to the days when we celebrated this show and didnāt take everything so damned seriously. Back when we all behaved like adults. Back when I could say with honesty, āI love this show.ā
Happy New Year Supernatural Fans. We’ve got work to do.
Alice Jester is the founder, editor-in-chief, head writer, programmer, web designer, site administrator, marketer, and moderator for The Winchester Family Business.Ā She is a 30 year IT applications and database expert with a penchant for creative and freelance writing in her spare (ha!!) time.Ā Thatās on top of being a wife, mother of two active kids, and four loving (aka needy) pets.
Happy New Year to you Alice and your amazing site !
Happy new Year to the whole SPN Family !
Happy New Year to you Alice and your amazing site !
Happy new Year to the whole SPN Family !
I’m not a writer about the show (though I do blog occasionally about it) but I’ve been struggling too with trying to just love the show like I used to, so I can totally relate to everything you’ve said. My resolution as a fan in 2014 is to get back to the basics of just being a fan.
Good luck, Alice, and Happy New Year!
I’m not a writer about the show (though I do blog occasionally about it) but I’ve been struggling too with trying to just love the show like I used to, so I can totally relate to everything you’ve said. My resolution as a fan in 2014 is to get back to the basics of just being a fan.
Good luck, Alice, and Happy New Year!
**claps her hands with happiness** Way to go, Alice. This is the main reason that I love this site so much and why it has been the only one that I regularly read. I read your article on Jensen and thought it was a beautiful piece showing your appreciation of what a great actor he is but immediately knew that I did not want to read the comments because it would ruin it for me. I am so glad you are ready to go back to basics and I will continue to be here for the ride with you. š
**claps her hands with happiness** Way to go, Alice. This is the main reason that I love this site so much and why it has been the only one that I regularly read. I read your article on Jensen and thought it was a beautiful piece showing your appreciation of what a great actor he is but immediately knew that I did not want to read the comments because it would ruin it for me. I am so glad you are ready to go back to basics and I will continue to be here for the ride with you. š
I’m with you!!!!! Thanx for your great job! I do love the show AND the wfb site. I hope sweetondean comes back… I love her, too!
I’m with you!!!!! Thanx for your great job! I do love the show AND the wfb site. I hope sweetondean comes back… I love her, too!
Hear, hear Alice! I am completely on board. Thank you.
Hear, hear Alice! I am completely on board. Thank you.
I am so happy about your decission Alice. In February 2010 I discovered Supernatural on the Internet and I was total taken back by the arguing fans on various sites. And I never felt like joining in on one of those discussions and then I came across your site and it was peaceful here. Everybody just celebrated our little show and our love for it. I miss those days.
I love Supernatural and that means you have to love the show for the brothers and all the other characters as well. And if you love somebody or something you only see the positiv side of that person/thing or otherwise you wouldn’t fall in love. So those people with their negativ thoughts don’t love our show and in my opinion they should open their own site. The Winchester Family Business is for love.
I can not stand the fights of Dean vs. Sam girls. I will not deny that I am a Dean girl but that is because I always fall for the Han Solo types. That doesn’t mean that I am not appriciating Sam or what Jared brings to the show. I love them both.
For those who don’t know it the unwritten subtitle of this show is we love all and everybody of Supernatural.
Happy new year
I am so happy about your decission Alice. In February 2010 I discovered Supernatural on the Internet and I was total taken back by the arguing fans on various sites. And I never felt like joining in on one of those discussions and then I came across your site and it was peaceful here. Everybody just celebrated our little show and our love for it. I miss those days.
I love Supernatural and that means you have to love the show for the brothers and all the other characters as well. And if you love somebody or something you only see the positiv side of that person/thing or otherwise you wouldn’t fall in love. So those people with their negativ thoughts don’t love our show and in my opinion they should open their own site. The Winchester Family Business is for love.
I can not stand the fights of Dean vs. Sam girls. I will not deny that I am a Dean girl but that is because I always fall for the Han Solo types. That doesn’t mean that I am not appriciating Sam or what Jared brings to the show. I love them both.
For those who don’t know it the unwritten subtitle of this show is we love all and everybody of Supernatural.
Happy new year
Thanks alice,
The respectful nature of the articles – and the comments – here is what led me to joining the site way back when.
I’ll admit to letting my disappointment with season 8 colour my posts with negativity, and I have reacted badly to other posters at times. Mea culpa.
The last couple of weeks have had a hideous impact for me, personally. I’m still working on getting past it – but that’s my problem.
If (when) I can regain my perspective, I’ll be back with more positive critique. In the meantime, I’ll be lurking around.
Thanks for maintaining the WFB. Here’s to a better 2014.
Thanks alice,
The respectful nature of the articles – and the comments – here is what led me to joining the site way back when.
I’ll admit to letting my disappointment with season 8 colour my posts with negativity, and I have reacted badly to other posters at times. Mea culpa.
The last couple of weeks have had a hideous impact for me, personally. I’m still working on getting past it – but that’s my problem.
If (when) I can regain my perspective, I’ll be back with more positive critique. In the meantime, I’ll be lurking around.
Thanks for maintaining the WFB. Here’s to a better 2014.
I’m in your corner, Alice! As one of those writers who slacked off in part because the fandom negativity and attack mentality got me down (well, running my own business had a bit to do with that too …), I’m also resolving to rediscover my joy in writing about the show I still love. After a long drought, I realized — during the week I took off for the Christmas/New Year holidays — I had things I wanted to write about.
I’m into happiness. š
I’m in your corner, Alice! As one of those writers who slacked off in part because the fandom negativity and attack mentality got me down (well, running my own business had a bit to do with that too …), I’m also resolving to rediscover my joy in writing about the show I still love. After a long drought, I realized — during the week I took off for the Christmas/New Year holidays — I had things I wanted to write about.
I’m into happiness. š
Thank you for writing this. I read your article about Jensen. It had me grinning from ear to ear. Every now and then I do like being reminded WHY I made a commitment to to love this show.
Ive left other sites before when they became too negative and one of the first signs is that I start skipping over the comments section. I had started doing that here and skipped the comments on the Jensen article. I’m really just looking for a fun place to share RATIONAL discourse on the show and this site and a couple others were really good for that. Its good to see you recommitted to that again. I’m loathe to go back to just watching the show alone and never having anyone to discuss it with.
So thank you, thank you, and did I thank you? For writings this piece and expressing so many of my actual feelings.
Thank you for writing this. I read your article about Jensen. It had me grinning from ear to ear. Every now and then I do like being reminded WHY I made a commitment to to love this show.
Ive left other sites before when they became too negative and one of the first signs is that I start skipping over the comments section. I had started doing that here and skipped the comments on the Jensen article. I’m really just looking for a fun place to share RATIONAL discourse on the show and this site and a couple others were really good for that. Its good to see you recommitted to that again. I’m loathe to go back to just watching the show alone and never having anyone to discuss it with.
So thank you, thank you, and did I thank you? For writings this piece and expressing so many of my actual feelings.
[quote name=”From Italy”]I’m with you!!!!! Thanx for your great job! I do love the show AND the wfb site. I hope sweetondean comes back… I love her, too![/quote]
Sweetondean : please come back ! I miss your sensibility and your tenderness too.
[quote]I’m with you!!!!! Thanx for your great job! I do love the show AND the wfb site. I hope sweetondean comes back… I love her, too![/quote]
Sweetondean : please come back ! I miss your sensibility and your tenderness too.
#8 Bardicvoice :
Not sure if you know this but you are my guru when it comes to rational discussion of this show. I used to never express an opinion without first getting the low-down from you first.
I missed you. A lot!
Welcome back (I hope) and Happy New Year to all the writers here.
#8 Bardicvoice :
Not sure if you know this but you are my guru when it comes to rational discussion of this show. I used to never express an opinion without first getting the low-down from you first.
I missed you. A lot!
Welcome back (I hope) and Happy New Year to all the writers here.
#9 Ikeke This is exactly how I feel. I fell in love with the show without fansites. My venture into the land of the web was PinkRayGun and Sylvia Bond. I loved her reviews and the comments. Then I stumbled onto Blogcritics and found Alice Jester. I followed her to the WFB and haven’t strayed since. The SPN experience is enriched by the wonderful reviews and intelligent discussion. I can’t imagine watching the show without it.
I fully support this move. I made a suggestion on Bardicvoice’s article. I don’t know if it would help to bring her and sweetondean back.but what about no comment section on their reviews if they don’t want it?
I hope for all our sakes this works and we don’t lose the last safe haven for fans of the best show on TV.
#9 Ikeke This is exactly how I feel. I fell in love with the show without fansites. My venture into the land of the web was PinkRayGun and Sylvia Bond. I loved her reviews and the comments. Then I stumbled onto Blogcritics and found Alice Jester. I followed her to the WFB and haven’t strayed since. The SPN experience is enriched by the wonderful reviews and intelligent discussion. I can’t imagine watching the show without it.
I fully support this move. I made a suggestion on Bardicvoice’s article. I don’t know if it would help to bring her and sweetondean back.but what about no comment section on their reviews if they don’t want it?
I hope for all our sakes this works and we don’t lose the last safe haven for fans of the best show on TV.
Alice I am standing up and applauding you though I know you cannot see or hear it but I know you can feel it. This was the first sight I ever started to visit and then participate in and I enjoyed it immensely. I’ve made some friends on here, visited them at cons and really enjoyed the writers take on topics. I didn’t always agree 100% but that is the joy of living here in the U.S.A. It’s a free country and there is such a thing as free speech. So I continued to come back and to post comments and then like you said, it started getting really ugly. The same old topics were being hashed out and disagreed on and the speculation about what certain things in an episode really meant was almost a joke. I mean really, TPTB have a plan, they have a direction and we are just along for the ride and I for one have been enjoying the hell out of it but this site, I have to admit, just turned me off and I stopped commenting. I even stopped reading the comments from certain posters when I would see their name. And then the last straw was losing sweetondean (one of my favorite writers) and others stopped writing and I was so disappointed and sad for you because I know how much this site has meant to you.
I am going to hang in there with you because I do love this site and there are some really good writers still here that I enjoy reading and commenting on and with, so count me in as being in your corner. I hope it can be a happy place again where we all come here for one reason, to celebrate [u]our[/u] show and discuss [u]our[/u] show with each other. Maybe, maybe just maybe some where down the road we can convince sweetondean to come back to us. In the mean time, thank you Alice for keeping it going and not giving up on all of us. Happy New Year to you and the behind the scenes IT guy in your corner also. š
Alice I am standing up and applauding you though I know you cannot see or hear it but I know you can feel it. This was the first sight I ever started to visit and then participate in and I enjoyed it immensely. I’ve made some friends on here, visited them at cons and really enjoyed the writers take on topics. I didn’t always agree 100% but that is the joy of living here in the U.S.A. It’s a free country and there is such a thing as free speech. So I continued to come back and to post comments and then like you said, it started getting really ugly. The same old topics were being hashed out and disagreed on and the speculation about what certain things in an episode really meant was almost a joke. I mean really, TPTB have a plan, they have a direction and we are just along for the ride and I for one have been enjoying the hell out of it but this site, I have to admit, just turned me off and I stopped commenting. I even stopped reading the comments from certain posters when I would see their name. And then the last straw was losing sweetondean (one of my favorite writers) and others stopped writing and I was so disappointed and sad for you because I know how much this site has meant to you.
I am going to hang in there with you because I do love this site and there are some really good writers still here that I enjoy reading and commenting on and with, so count me in as being in your corner. I hope it can be a happy place again where we all come here for one reason, to celebrate [u]our[/u] show and discuss [u]our[/u] show with each other. Maybe, maybe just maybe some where down the road we can convince sweetondean to come back to us. In the mean time, thank you Alice for keeping it going and not giving up on all of us. Happy New Year to you and the behind the scenes IT guy in your corner also. š
For me I think the answer is to RESPECT all views. And if you don’t agree, state your rebuttal in a non angry or confrontational way. It all too often deteriorates fast into snide, sarcastic or angry posts. There are people who cannot defend their favorite character(s) without demeaning the other character(s.) Well that instantly is going to raise hackles. It is a TV show and people get WAY to upset about it and with fans who do not share their particular view. If I find myself angry or bruised over a comment (and I have) I know it is time to step back and re-remind myself to chill out. There is nothing about a TV that is THAT important.
I love good debates and there used to be many here and sometimes misunderstandings happened but they were usually resolved in a polite manner. Kelly, Bamboo24, emmau had some great ones in the past, to name just a few. It is what brought me to this site and why I grew to love it. Sometimes Alice had to remind us to mind our manners but not often. I still enjoy reading comments by so many diverse people, some who share different views but have thoughtful ideas and opinions to bring to the table. I think all people should be free to express themselves and not be thought of as negative should they be unhappy about something. If it is done and received with respect all should be allowed.
I haven’t read any of the above comments yet so I apologize if I repeat any thoughts and ideas! I din’t want the other comments to influence me before I posted. š
For me I think the answer is to RESPECT all views. And if you don’t agree, state your rebuttal in a non angry or confrontational way. It all too often deteriorates fast into snide, sarcastic or angry posts. There are people who cannot defend their favorite character(s) without demeaning the other character(s.) Well that instantly is going to raise hackles. It is a TV show and people get WAY to upset about it and with fans who do not share their particular view. If I find myself angry or bruised over a comment (and I have) I know it is time to step back and re-remind myself to chill out. There is nothing about a TV that is THAT important.
I love good debates and there used to be many here and sometimes misunderstandings happened but they were usually resolved in a polite manner. Kelly, Bamboo24, emmau had some great ones in the past, to name just a few. It is what brought me to this site and why I grew to love it. Sometimes Alice had to remind us to mind our manners but not often. I still enjoy reading comments by so many diverse people, some who share different views but have thoughtful ideas and opinions to bring to the table. I think all people should be free to express themselves and not be thought of as negative should they be unhappy about something. If it is done and received with respect all should be allowed.
I haven’t read any of the above comments yet so I apologize if I repeat any thoughts and ideas! I din’t want the other comments to influence me before I posted. š
I guess I’ve been out of the loop as far as fandom wank goes. For so long I was a frequent visitor to another supernatural fan site and the wank totally drove me away. Iām with you on losing the spark I used to have for the show. It’s not as much fun anymore and it’s because of all the crap that is going on with the fans. I still love the show, I will always love the show, but I no longer hit up the fan sites afterwards to share comments and thoughts about each episode. It’s like youāre not allowed to have an opinion without being shouted down by an opposing view and it’s no longer fun for me. We all watch the same show, but age, life experiences etc each color our views. Thatās not necessarily a bad thing. So many times you and others, have seen things in an episode that I have absolutely missed. When that happens reading it allows me to see some things in a totally new light. Sometimes that is bad, most times it is good. But NEVER have I gotten online to shout down some elseās opinion. If I donāt like what someone else is saying I just ignore it. Or in some cases, sadly walked away.
I jokingly refer to myself as Bi-Winchester with Dean tendencies. Thatās because while I enjoy both characters storylines, I was a Jensen fan before the show started and when I saw he was going to be on this show I was hooked before it even began. That doesnāt mean I enjoy Jared any less (besides he has totally won me over) it just means Jensen was my love first and will always hold a special place in my fan girl heart. Does that make me a bad person because sometimes I prefer Dean over Samā¦.no it doesnāt. Guess what, we are allowed to have favorites, and I’m not wrong to have one. Neither are you, neither is anyone. We just have to learn to be tolerant when someone has a favorite or a view or whatever that isnāt the same as what we have.
Steps off my soapboxā¦.That being said, Alice donāt leave. Sure, there were times I could see you were so frustrated you were about to just chuck it all, but I’m glad you didnāt. Someone has to standup for those of us who donāt fall into the petty fandom wars. We are many, we just need to be as vocal as the naysayerās and come back into the light of a happy fandom.
I guess I’ve been out of the loop as far as fandom wank goes. For so long I was a frequent visitor to another supernatural fan site and the wank totally drove me away. Iām with you on losing the spark I used to have for the show. It’s not as much fun anymore and it’s because of all the crap that is going on with the fans. I still love the show, I will always love the show, but I no longer hit up the fan sites afterwards to share comments and thoughts about each episode. It’s like youāre not allowed to have an opinion without being shouted down by an opposing view and it’s no longer fun for me. We all watch the same show, but age, life experiences etc each color our views. Thatās not necessarily a bad thing. So many times you and others, have seen things in an episode that I have absolutely missed. When that happens reading it allows me to see some things in a totally new light. Sometimes that is bad, most times it is good. But NEVER have I gotten online to shout down some elseās opinion. If I donāt like what someone else is saying I just ignore it. Or in some cases, sadly walked away.
I jokingly refer to myself as Bi-Winchester with Dean tendencies. Thatās because while I enjoy both characters storylines, I was a Jensen fan before the show started and when I saw he was going to be on this show I was hooked before it even began. That doesnāt mean I enjoy Jared any less (besides he has totally won me over) it just means Jensen was my love first and will always hold a special place in my fan girl heart. Does that make me a bad person because sometimes I prefer Dean over Samā¦.no it doesnāt. Guess what, we are allowed to have favorites, and I’m not wrong to have one. Neither are you, neither is anyone. We just have to learn to be tolerant when someone has a favorite or a view or whatever that isnāt the same as what we have.
Steps off my soapboxā¦.That being said, Alice donāt leave. Sure, there were times I could see you were so frustrated you were about to just chuck it all, but I’m glad you didnāt. Someone has to standup for those of us who donāt fall into the petty fandom wars. We are many, we just need to be as vocal as the naysayerās and come back into the light of a happy fandom.
Dear Alice,
Thanks for carrying on with the site. I actually have not been on it as much lately and admit have been a bit more wary of going through the comments when I have visited.
I was one of the people who expressed disappointment about the title of the Jensen article recently. Having been blown away by Jared’s acting then have it effectively swept aside by a coin toss, I believe I was left a bit sensitive. The title almost put me off reading the, very good and reasonable, article. However I was not going to bear a grudge or flounce off in the other direction š
I do appreciate having a site to go to for fun articles and discussions about the best TV show in the history of the universe. If I can be of help, let me know.
I think even from the viewpoint of someone like me who I honestly would consider a “happy fan” ( in as much as one can be happy with Sam dragged off who-knows-where hijacked by Gadriel and – …..Kevin.. *:-( ugly crying* ) we probably don’t realise the extent to which comments get magnified when you are in the”firing line”
I don’t think it has to be sunshine, rainbows and lollipops to have an interaction, we can always agree to disagree on stuff as friends, but I apologise if any of my comments have contributed towards your discomfort.
Welcome back for 2014.
Love,
Sue
Ps. As a confirmed Sam Girl I am fully supportive of the idea of leaving a trail of delicious Dean/Jensen photos to entice Amy to write for the site again š
Dear Alice,
Thanks for carrying on with the site. I actually have not been on it as much lately and admit have been a bit more wary of going through the comments when I have visited.
I was one of the people who expressed disappointment about the title of the Jensen article recently. Having been blown away by Jared’s acting then have it effectively swept aside by a coin toss, I believe I was left a bit sensitive. The title almost put me off reading the, very good and reasonable, article. However I was not going to bear a grudge or flounce off in the other direction š
I do appreciate having a site to go to for fun articles and discussions about the best TV show in the history of the universe. If I can be of help, let me know.
I think even from the viewpoint of someone like me who I honestly would consider a “happy fan” ( in as much as one can be happy with Sam dragged off who-knows-where hijacked by Gadriel and – …..Kevin.. *:-( ugly crying* ) we probably don’t realise the extent to which comments get magnified when you are in the”firing line”
I don’t think it has to be sunshine, rainbows and lollipops to have an interaction, we can always agree to disagree on stuff as friends, but I apologise if any of my comments have contributed towards your discomfort.
Welcome back for 2014.
Love,
Sue
Ps. As a confirmed Sam Girl I am fully supportive of the idea of leaving a trail of delicious Dean/Jensen photos to entice Amy to write for the site again š
[quote name=”suenash19″]
Ps. As a confirmed Sam Girl I am fully supportive of the idea of leaving a trail of delicious Dean/Jensen photos to entice Amy to write for the site again :-)[/quote]
From one Sue to another, I am right there with you on that one. Alice, you think maybe if we start a “we want you back sweetondean” campaign that maybe she would reconsider?
[quote]
Ps. As a confirmed Sam Girl I am fully supportive of the idea of leaving a trail of delicious Dean/Jensen photos to entice Amy to write for the site again :-)[/quote]
From one Sue to another, I am right there with you on that one. Alice, you think maybe if we start a “we want you back sweetondean” campaign that maybe she would reconsider?
I am with you 100%, Alice. I’d really like to see 2014 be the year this site gets even bigger.
I am looking forward to writing more reviews and articles this year.I can’t imagine writing for another site.
I am with you 100%, Alice. I’d really like to see 2014 be the year this site gets even bigger.
I am looking forward to writing more reviews and articles this year.I can’t imagine writing for another site.
Thanks everyone for all your amazing responses of support. This is the happy fandom I’ve been missing!
As for sweetondean, she just needs some space right now. I offered to turn off comments on her articles when she first resigned, but I think it goes deeper than that. She supports everything we do here, but I’m afraid this fandom has really scarred her lately. Maybe she will decide to come back someday and she has offered to write con reports. But I’m not going to try and push or force. I respect her decision and hopefully she’ll find the inspiration to write again.
Thanks everyone for all your amazing responses of support. This is the happy fandom I’ve been missing!
As for sweetondean, she just needs some space right now. I offered to turn off comments on her articles when she first resigned, but I think it goes deeper than that. She supports everything we do here, but I’m afraid this fandom has really scarred her lately. Maybe she will decide to come back someday and she has offered to write con reports. But I’m not going to try and push or force. I respect her decision and hopefully she’ll find the inspiration to write again.
Amen Sister!
I understand what you’re talking about. I’ve wandered away from a few Supernatural sites because I just couldn’t stand the negativity anymore.
Even if they are other fans, trashing my boys (oops, I saw a con vid where they got mock angry at being called boys) trashing my men, nitpicking details more then a trekkie (Save your breath- I don’t care what the proper term is), harshing on the story arc because they could do betterā¦.
I come here to fandom because I just cannot seem to get enough of this show and I want to be around people who have gone as insane as I have for this epic story. I want to come here and emote, “WOW! OMG! He just hijacked Sam! That’s awful! I want to go punch that slimy angel, and get him back. Whose with me?”
Reading your article, I, like Sam, am a thinker. Why? What caused this? What innerconnected factors are at work here?
I came up with passion. Watch your own emotional reaction when I write this:
I think Dean needs to let someone else pick the music and shut his cakehole. He only thinks he knows-it-all, and he can be an overbearing dick.
I also think that Sam is the stronger brother.
*Gasp!* I heard y’all from here. Passion.
We are passionate about this show. When people are passionate about something, they want to talk and have others listen. Nay, not just listen, but agree; And if they don’t agreeā¦.. Hmmm. Has Supernatural become a sub-religion? It has the earmarks.
So, I’m glad you didn’t shut down the site. I’m glad you’re posting that you are tired of the negativity.
Me too.
Now, let’s go kick some angel butt and get our Sammy back.
Amen Sister!
I understand what you’re talking about. I’ve wandered away from a few Supernatural sites because I just couldn’t stand the negativity anymore.
Even if they are other fans, trashing my boys (oops, I saw a con vid where they got mock angry at being called boys) trashing my men, nitpicking details more then a trekkie (Save your breath- I don’t care what the proper term is), harshing on the story arc because they could do betterā¦.
I come here to fandom because I just cannot seem to get enough of this show and I want to be around people who have gone as insane as I have for this epic story. I want to come here and emote, “WOW! OMG! He just hijacked Sam! That’s awful! I want to go punch that slimy angel, and get him back. Whose with me?”
Reading your article, I, like Sam, am a thinker. Why? What caused this? What innerconnected factors are at work here?
I came up with passion. Watch your own emotional reaction when I write this:
I think Dean needs to let someone else pick the music and shut his cakehole. He only thinks he knows-it-all, and he can be an overbearing dick.
I also think that Sam is the stronger brother.
*Gasp!* I heard y’all from here. Passion.
We are passionate about this show. When people are passionate about something, they want to talk and have others listen. Nay, not just listen, but agree; And if they don’t agreeā¦.. Hmmm. Has Supernatural become a sub-religion? It has the earmarks.
So, I’m glad you didn’t shut down the site. I’m glad you’re posting that you are tired of the negativity.
Me too.
Now, let’s go kick some angel butt and get our Sammy back.
Alice, I guess itās all about degrees. Per usual, there was so much about your article I agree with. I can also understand your frustration and constant repetitive negative comments are frustrating and can be buzzkill for those happy with the show. But as someone who finds their joy in the show being diminished not but the fandom bickering as much as by the show itself, Iām not sure my comments will fit in with this joy-filled only version. Because I worry what I see as reasonable criticism of a show I love, others could easily find a downer. Plus even when I was happier with the show, I love to debate and while some find this entertaining, others (I know from personal experience with my step-mother) simply see it as arguing and itās irritating to them. So while Leah and others might enjoy the discussion, there will always people who see it as a problem.
Or for instance, my comments in āLetās Discuss: Is S9 winning you over or driving you away?ā could certainly be view as negative. And I openly admit to having bitterness left over from S8 (which I doubt Iāll ever get over unless they fix it), specifically comparing how they handle Deanās controversial decision this year with Samās last. I listed other problems I considered to be very detrimental to show. I believe the word half-assing it was used (in regards to the writers not the actors or crew). So is this constructive criticism or a simply negative comment? Iām sure many readers who went to squee over the season did not want to deal with those of us who are less happy. And Iāll admit that when I once read someone didnāt think MS was good one time, I had to think, āWhat is your problem?ā Though it didnāt effect my enjoyment of the episode. But I think for some people it does have that effect.
So I have to wonder, for those of us who do have serious issues with the show, but still love and want to discuss it, is this still the best place for us? What crosses the line from constructive to being negative is extremely subjective and will vary from person to person. What is okay with me, who seems to have a fairly high tolerance, is not going to be okay with say another poster. What is okay with you will not necessarily be okay with Sweetondean or some of the other writers. Or vise versa. So the question becomes whose version do we use? Since it is your site. It obviously will go by your standards. So what are they? I emailed you to ask if the guidelines had changed and you said they hadnāt. But since those were the guidelines that were in place when some of the writers and posters became so unhappy. Is that under review? Or are you thinking it requires a more specific explanation of whatās acceptable? Or just cracking down on those who are falling outside them?
I do love posting here. But I wonder if Iām going to have to worry with every post if this is TOO negative. If you DO prefer to keep in more or less strictly positive with the less than happy comments to a minimum, I understand. I will simply only post when I feel the squee again.
Regardless, thanks for all your work. Iāve had lots of fun here.
Alice, I guess itās all about degrees. Per usual, there was so much about your article I agree with. I can also understand your frustration and constant repetitive negative comments are frustrating and can be buzzkill for those happy with the show. But as someone who finds their joy in the show being diminished not but the fandom bickering as much as by the show itself, Iām not sure my comments will fit in with this joy-filled only version. Because I worry what I see as reasonable criticism of a show I love, others could easily find a downer. Plus even when I was happier with the show, I love to debate and while some find this entertaining, others (I know from personal experience with my step-mother) simply see it as arguing and itās irritating to them. So while Leah and others might enjoy the discussion, there will always people who see it as a problem.
Or for instance, my comments in āLetās Discuss: Is S9 winning you over or driving you away?ā could certainly be view as negative. And I openly admit to having bitterness left over from S8 (which I doubt Iāll ever get over unless they fix it), specifically comparing how they handle Deanās controversial decision this year with Samās last. I listed other problems I considered to be very detrimental to show. I believe the word half-assing it was used (in regards to the writers not the actors or crew). So is this constructive criticism or a simply negative comment? Iām sure many readers who went to squee over the season did not want to deal with those of us who are less happy. And Iāll admit that when I once read someone didnāt think MS was good one time, I had to think, āWhat is your problem?ā Though it didnāt effect my enjoyment of the episode. But I think for some people it does have that effect.
So I have to wonder, for those of us who do have serious issues with the show, but still love and want to discuss it, is this still the best place for us? What crosses the line from constructive to being negative is extremely subjective and will vary from person to person. What is okay with me, who seems to have a fairly high tolerance, is not going to be okay with say another poster. What is okay with you will not necessarily be okay with Sweetondean or some of the other writers. Or vise versa. So the question becomes whose version do we use? Since it is your site. It obviously will go by your standards. So what are they? I emailed you to ask if the guidelines had changed and you said they hadnāt. But since those were the guidelines that were in place when some of the writers and posters became so unhappy. Is that under review? Or are you thinking it requires a more specific explanation of whatās acceptable? Or just cracking down on those who are falling outside them?
I do love posting here. But I wonder if Iām going to have to worry with every post if this is TOO negative. If you DO prefer to keep in more or less strictly positive with the less than happy comments to a minimum, I understand. I will simply only post when I feel the squee again.
Regardless, thanks for all your work. Iāve had lots of fun here.
Thank you for Alice for allowing this site to continue and thank you for all your amazing work and for getting through all of the previous B.S. without losing your love for our show completely. You have built an amazing site and have worked to damn hard for this to have to watch it all go down in flames. I am so very happy you have chosen to not give up on us and to find a way to bring the SPNfamily back to where we need to be. I love this site and would have been so sad without it because this is a place I feel I can come and express my feelings and opinions about a show I love and people will understand and get it. We are an amazing community and I for one totally agree we can all have our multitude of different opinions without having to try to tear others down and be all nasty with each other. I hope everyone will come together and celebrate our Fandom ,our show and each other. Together we are unstoppable and while we don’t get to pick our family we are in a sense a big crazy family and family takes CARE of family.
Thank you for Alice for allowing this site to continue and thank you for all your amazing work and for getting through all of the previous B.S. without losing your love for our show completely. You have built an amazing site and have worked to damn hard for this to have to watch it all go down in flames. I am so very happy you have chosen to not give up on us and to find a way to bring the SPNfamily back to where we need to be. I love this site and would have been so sad without it because this is a place I feel I can come and express my feelings and opinions about a show I love and people will understand and get it. We are an amazing community and I for one totally agree we can all have our multitude of different opinions without having to try to tear others down and be all nasty with each other. I hope everyone will come together and celebrate our Fandom ,our show and each other. Together we are unstoppable and while we don’t get to pick our family we are in a sense a big crazy family and family takes CARE of family.
Quoting Sakki:
“Reading your article, I, like Sam, am a thinker. Why? What caused this? What innerconnected factors are at work here?
I came up with passion. Watch your own emotional reaction when I write this:
I think Dean needs to let someone else pick the music and shut his cakehole. He only thinks he knows-it-all, and he can be an overbearing dick.
I also think that Sam is the stronger brother.”
I think your point (?) might have been better served if you had used examples of derogatory comments for more than one character to make it. Yes the fandom is passionate but the phrasing of those comments are what starts arguments. Therein lies the problem. Writing a comment to provoke and then saying the fans are *gasp* emotional when they respond is not fair. People can say similar things in a much more respectful way. I can live with the” Sam is the stronger brother” example. The other one though is intentionally offensive. Even if one thinks that, it could be said differently.
Quoting Sakki:
“Reading your article, I, like Sam, am a thinker. Why? What caused this? What innerconnected factors are at work here?
I came up with passion. Watch your own emotional reaction when I write this:
I think Dean needs to let someone else pick the music and shut his cakehole. He only thinks he knows-it-all, and he can be an overbearing dick.
I also think that Sam is the stronger brother.”
I think your point (?) might have been better served if you had used examples of derogatory comments for more than one character to make it. Yes the fandom is passionate but the phrasing of those comments are what starts arguments. Therein lies the problem. Writing a comment to provoke and then saying the fans are *gasp* emotional when they respond is not fair. People can say similar things in a much more respectful way. I can live with the” Sam is the stronger brother” example. The other one though is intentionally offensive. Even if one thinks that, it could be said differently.
Thank you so much, Alice. This is the best Christmas and New Year’s present I could have received. I am so happy with your decisions and plans and look forward to more time on this site. Again – thank you very much!
Thank you so much, Alice. This is the best Christmas and New Year’s present I could have received. I am so happy with your decisions and plans and look forward to more time on this site. Again – thank you very much!
Ooops sorry, Sakii not Sakki!!
Ooops sorry, Sakii not Sakki!!
I am one of those folk who did have a problem with the title and I admit that I have been wondering whether or not I would be coming back to the site or not. But after a lot of thinking I decided that I just couldn’t keep away from this site. I just enjoy it too much. And I value it too much.
I’ve been a devoted Sam girl since The Pilot and for the first 5 seasons I posted daily at a large and very popular SPN site. It wasn’t always easy. S4 was an absolutely brutal time for Sam fans on the message boards. It was horrendous and by the end of S5 I had had enough. One day I clicked on a link to the reviews at this site and I stayed for good. I still bear the battle scars of S4 and I have absolutely no desire any more to get caught up in all the Sam vs Dean nonsense. All I want is to read some good articles about my favourite show, read the reviews and read (and sometimes join in with) the discussions. This site fits the bill perfectly. I love the discussions here, they are civil, polite, interesting and with a most welcome lack of fandom fighting. I love reading all the posts – the positive and the negative. The negative comments never get me down, I find them just as fascinating as the positive posts, maybe even more so. It’s always interesting to read all the different viewpoints and interpretations. It’s the Sam vs Dean, Jensen vs Jared stuff and the nastiness that I can’t deal with anymore.
I must admit that in the past I’ve angsted about writing something less than positive about an episode here (I’ve edited and re-edited and then often just deleted) so I do think that Kelly’s post above #21 has raised some very good questions.
I am one of those folk who did have a problem with the title and I admit that I have been wondering whether or not I would be coming back to the site or not. But after a lot of thinking I decided that I just couldn’t keep away from this site. I just enjoy it too much. And I value it too much.
I’ve been a devoted Sam girl since The Pilot and for the first 5 seasons I posted daily at a large and very popular SPN site. It wasn’t always easy. S4 was an absolutely brutal time for Sam fans on the message boards. It was horrendous and by the end of S5 I had had enough. One day I clicked on a link to the reviews at this site and I stayed for good. I still bear the battle scars of S4 and I have absolutely no desire any more to get caught up in all the Sam vs Dean nonsense. All I want is to read some good articles about my favourite show, read the reviews and read (and sometimes join in with) the discussions. This site fits the bill perfectly. I love the discussions here, they are civil, polite, interesting and with a most welcome lack of fandom fighting. I love reading all the posts – the positive and the negative. The negative comments never get me down, I find them just as fascinating as the positive posts, maybe even more so. It’s always interesting to read all the different viewpoints and interpretations. It’s the Sam vs Dean, Jensen vs Jared stuff and the nastiness that I can’t deal with anymore.
I must admit that in the past I’ve angsted about writing something less than positive about an episode here (I’ve edited and re-edited and then often just deleted) so I do think that Kelly’s post above #21 has raised some very good questions.
Alice,
You are a true inspiration and I thank you for all you do. This is my first reply and my heart melted at the thought of you closing this site due to negativity. But I’m so relieved that you are moving forward and keeping this site open despite the naysayers and whatever. Please stay strong and focused. To have two wonderful sites dedicated to TV as well as Supernatural just shows how much you care about this show and what you do. Believe you me, I truly appreciate you and respect your work as well as the articles on this website. I thank you for your honesty as well as your open thoughts of concern. Your websites have been a beacon of light for me during the ups and downs of my own life and I find your work as well as the other writers on this site inspiring as well as thought provoking. Simply, Thank-You.
To Sweetondean,
I love reading your articles and I considered your words as well as Alice, very powerful and meaningful. I’m very sorry you’re no longer with this site, but I know that hurt, disdain and negativity can push many people away from doing what they love to do the most. Please revisit the thought of coming back as a writer. We miss you and again thanks for all you do! I hope you and everyone at this site have a Happy New Year.
Alice,
You are a true inspiration and I thank you for all you do. This is my first reply and my heart melted at the thought of you closing this site due to negativity. But I’m so relieved that you are moving forward and keeping this site open despite the naysayers and whatever. Please stay strong and focused. To have two wonderful sites dedicated to TV as well as Supernatural just shows how much you care about this show and what you do. Believe you me, I truly appreciate you and respect your work as well as the articles on this website. I thank you for your honesty as well as your open thoughts of concern. Your websites have been a beacon of light for me during the ups and downs of my own life and I find your work as well as the other writers on this site inspiring as well as thought provoking. Simply, Thank-You.
To Sweetondean,
I love reading your articles and I considered your words as well as Alice, very powerful and meaningful. I’m very sorry you’re no longer with this site, but I know that hurt, disdain and negativity can push many people away from doing what they love to do the most. Please revisit the thought of coming back as a writer. We miss you and again thanks for all you do! I hope you and everyone at this site have a Happy New Year.
Leah D – You see, I didn’t find offense in Sakii’s comment. I didn’t see Sakii deliberately trying to provoke, but more like providing an example. It’s possible that wasn’t the intent, but I’m giving the benefit of the doubt. That’s exactly the sort of thing I’m trying to address in this statement. Why are we being so quick to judge? Why the sudden offense over one sentence? Sometimes, we just need to let things slide. The overall message was supportive, and I give high regard to that.
Kelly, I see your concern, but I never said it was going to be a joy-filled only version. Even back in season four when we started there were issues with the show. It’s all about knowing how to express your issues and frustration though. Frustration and criticism does not have to mean excessive negativity. You express what’s bothering you without flying off the handle and repeating the same issues in numerous posts. Sometimes, when something is bothering you about the show, you can try calmly talking it through with others. I always find that kind of conversation helps me. It helps me see things in other ways that I didn’t realize before. It’s a system that worked extremely well for us in the early years and one I know we can do again.
I’ll still have “Let’s Discuss” threads that will be more free-form in discussion and will allow more heated commentaries. I’m really trying to keep the attitudes out of all the other threads. It’s gotten too overwhelming for many. I haven’t decided the ground rules for “Let’s Speculate” yet, but I’m going to try and promote a more constructive environment there too.
Again, it’s going to be playing things by ear. I’m not going to be banning people or reprimanding likely, just guiding the conversation back into civil territory. It’s either this or the site is gone. So, yes, you’ll have to decide exactly what you prefer.
Leah D – You see, I didn’t find offense in Sakii’s comment. I didn’t see Sakii deliberately trying to provoke, but more like providing an example. It’s possible that wasn’t the intent, but I’m giving the benefit of the doubt. That’s exactly the sort of thing I’m trying to address in this statement. Why are we being so quick to judge? Why the sudden offense over one sentence? Sometimes, we just need to let things slide. The overall message was supportive, and I give high regard to that.
Kelly, I see your concern, but I never said it was going to be a joy-filled only version. Even back in season four when we started there were issues with the show. It’s all about knowing how to express your issues and frustration though. Frustration and criticism does not have to mean excessive negativity. You express what’s bothering you without flying off the handle and repeating the same issues in numerous posts. Sometimes, when something is bothering you about the show, you can try calmly talking it through with others. I always find that kind of conversation helps me. It helps me see things in other ways that I didn’t realize before. It’s a system that worked extremely well for us in the early years and one I know we can do again.
I’ll still have “Let’s Discuss” threads that will be more free-form in discussion and will allow more heated commentaries. I’m really trying to keep the attitudes out of all the other threads. It’s gotten too overwhelming for many. I haven’t decided the ground rules for “Let’s Speculate” yet, but I’m going to try and promote a more constructive environment there too.
Again, it’s going to be playing things by ear. I’m not going to be banning people or reprimanding likely, just guiding the conversation back into civil territory. It’s either this or the site is gone. So, yes, you’ll have to decide exactly what you prefer.
I am literally tearing up right now! I know I am a lurker and this site was my favorite, only?, site I visited. I stopped even visiting here because of, well everything you wrote about, and had no where to go!! I love SPN and love reading, and occasionally commenting on, all articles about SPN. I even stopped checking twitter because of all the negativity and hate. I was just going to continue to love SPN quietly and alone, except for one Facebook page where everyone is sweet and read and recommend fan fiction they have read. I am so happy you are doing this and once again I have a safe place to visit and share my joy!! (I too, miss Sweetondean’s participation and just wish her the best!).
I am literally tearing up right now! I know I am a lurker and this site was my favorite, only?, site I visited. I stopped even visiting here because of, well everything you wrote about, and had no where to go!! I love SPN and love reading, and occasionally commenting on, all articles about SPN. I even stopped checking twitter because of all the negativity and hate. I was just going to continue to love SPN quietly and alone, except for one Facebook page where everyone is sweet and read and recommend fan fiction they have read. I am so happy you are doing this and once again I have a safe place to visit and share my joy!! (I too, miss Sweetondean’s participation and just wish her the best!).
Alice – thank you for deciding to keep the site going (or, Carry On My Wayward Site, you’ll find a bug-free version of Joomla when you are done) š And a big thanks as well as to all the WFB writers and contributors. Sorry to see that Sweetondean has resigned; her enthusiasm and passion for the show are infectious. But, on a happy note, glad to see Bardicvoice finding time to jump back into the fray. Here’s to a Happy and Peaceful 2014.
Alice – thank you for deciding to keep the site going (or, Carry On My Wayward Site, you’ll find a bug-free version of Joomla when you are done) š And a big thanks as well as to all the WFB writers and contributors. Sorry to see that Sweetondean has resigned; her enthusiasm and passion for the show are infectious. But, on a happy note, glad to see Bardicvoice finding time to jump back into the fray. Here’s to a Happy and Peaceful 2014.
Jily4,
What Facebook page is that? I should add it. š
I haven’t been able been able to put my finger on it but perhaps it’s the quickness of Twitter or the fact that a lot of the cast/crew/writers are on it, that the negativity seems to reside there in spades.
I’m new to Supernatural and made it through season 6 before I wanted to see what others were saying about the show. I wish I could say I didn’t regret that.
It hasn’t all been bad but it hasn’t all been a bouquet of roses either.
Jily4,
What Facebook page is that? I should add it. š
I haven’t been able been able to put my finger on it but perhaps it’s the quickness of Twitter or the fact that a lot of the cast/crew/writers are on it, that the negativity seems to reside there in spades.
I’m new to Supernatural and made it through season 6 before I wanted to see what others were saying about the show. I wish I could say I didn’t regret that.
It hasn’t all been bad but it hasn’t all been a bouquet of roses either.
As a long time lurker/reader who never posts, I had to break silence to say thank you for all you do, and for this resolve to make a place where all are welcome…just the thought of not needing to gird my loins to read the discussion and comments has made my new year!
As a long time lurker/reader who never posts, I had to break silence to say thank you for all you do, and for this resolve to make a place where all are welcome…just the thought of not needing to gird my loins to read the discussion and comments has made my new year!
#23 leah d
Thank you for your passion. That’s exactly what I was talking about.
:}
#23 leah d
Thank you for your passion. That’s exactly what I was talking about.
:}
I’m comparatively new to Supernatural, having had the pleasure of discovering it two years ago. I just wanted to say that this site has been a great pleasure to visit and although I haven’t posted much, fans like me are truly appreciative of your work and this site.
I understand that negativity can really get to you (I work as a family counselor),but know that there are lots who appreciate your work.
Sorry to hear about sweetondean. Loved her work!
Thanks for your work and your resolution.
Keep it up!
I’m comparatively new to Supernatural, having had the pleasure of discovering it two years ago. I just wanted to say that this site has been a great pleasure to visit and although I haven’t posted much, fans like me are truly appreciative of your work and this site.
I understand that negativity can really get to you (I work as a family counselor),but know that there are lots who appreciate your work.
Sorry to hear about sweetondean. Loved her work!
Thanks for your work and your resolution.
Keep it up!
Alice, thank you for your efforts. I’m new to the fandom and I can’t imagine what 9 years has been like.
I’d like to post here, I’m most definitely a positive person when it comes to the show. So, thank you for keeping the site open. It’s time consuming and exhausting but so appreciated.
Good luck.
Alice, thank you for your efforts. I’m new to the fandom and I can’t imagine what 9 years has been like.
I’d like to post here, I’m most definitely a positive person when it comes to the show. So, thank you for keeping the site open. It’s time consuming and exhausting but so appreciated.
Good luck.
I’m so glad you decided not to give up, Alice. I really don’t know where I would go if I didn’t have this site. Thanks so much. I’m all for positive, constructive comments and friendly debate over episodes. It’s why I’ve been a member for so long.
I’m so glad you decided not to give up, Alice. I really don’t know where I would go if I didn’t have this site. Thanks so much. I’m all for positive, constructive comments and friendly debate over episodes. It’s why I’ve been a member for so long.
Well said Alice! I look forward to continuing to read all the posts and occasionally commenting š
By the way, perfect photo of the boys to compliment the article. No more nonsense Chuck š
Well said Alice! I look forward to continuing to read all the posts and occasionally commenting š
By the way, perfect photo of the boys to compliment the article. No more nonsense Chuck š
Alice, Iām so sorry that it has been so stressful for you. There is a lot of work that goes into maintaining a site like WFB that Iām sorry to say I donāt think about or say āthank youā often enough.
Iām so happy to hear of your resolve. I havenāt been doing much with fandom anywhere because the negativity. I really liked season six (seven, not so much). I had to stop coming here and other sites, for a while then because I didnāt feel like there was a place for me to just, you know, [i]like [/i] the show. This season seems like more of the same.
I donāt love every little thing unreservedly. But overall, I love the show. Thatās what I try to focus on. Iām much happier that way.
Iāve found that its increasingly difficult to have discussions about the show and I couldnāt understand why that was ā its not because the Show isnāt as good as it used to be and doesnāt have things worthy of discussion. I think Show has done a remarkable job in maintaining quality and interesting on-going storylines. I believe it is because the discussions tend to be dominated by fans for whom one issue is so overwhelmingly important that it drowns out any possible discussion.
I want to make clear that I am not singling out any particular issue when I say that. But if someone thinks that āTHE WRITERS ARE RUINING THE SHOWā because of ([u]fill in the blank with issue of choice[/u]) then frankly, I canāt talk to that person. Thereās no discussion to be had based from that starting point.
On the one hand, I do get why people focus on an issue thatās important to them āweāre all passionate about Show ā its depressing to have your squee harshed and we, as fans in 2014, have an unprecedented access to people involved with the show who just might actually be able to actually change something we donāt like.
But on the other hand, I donāt get continuing to be involved in something that is no longer fun. Its supposed to be fun. Fandom is supposed to be fun.
Hereās to fun in 2014!
P.S. In the interest of full disclosure, the title to the Jensen article struck me wrong too, so much so that I told it to my Hubs (he and my friend at work are my sounding boards as fans of the show without any fandom baggage at all) and asked him what he thought of it. He said drily(with absolutely no coaching from me or background info), āJensenās the heart AND soul? So whatās Jared? Gristle and bone?ā
Alice, Iām so sorry that it has been so stressful for you. There is a lot of work that goes into maintaining a site like WFB that Iām sorry to say I donāt think about or say āthank youā often enough.
Iām so happy to hear of your resolve. I havenāt been doing much with fandom anywhere because the negativity. I really liked season six (seven, not so much). I had to stop coming here and other sites, for a while then because I didnāt feel like there was a place for me to just, you know, [i]like [/i] the show. This season seems like more of the same.
I donāt love every little thing unreservedly. But overall, I love the show. Thatās what I try to focus on. Iām much happier that way.
Iāve found that its increasingly difficult to have discussions about the show and I couldnāt understand why that was ā its not because the Show isnāt as good as it used to be and doesnāt have things worthy of discussion. I think Show has done a remarkable job in maintaining quality and interesting on-going storylines. I believe it is because the discussions tend to be dominated by fans for whom one issue is so overwhelmingly important that it drowns out any possible discussion.
I want to make clear that I am not singling out any particular issue when I say that. But if someone thinks that āTHE WRITERS ARE RUINING THE SHOWā because of ([u]fill in the blank with issue of choice[/u]) then frankly, I canāt talk to that person. Thereās no discussion to be had based from that starting point.
On the one hand, I do get why people focus on an issue thatās important to them āweāre all passionate about Show ā its depressing to have your squee harshed and we, as fans in 2014, have an unprecedented access to people involved with the show who just might actually be able to actually change something we donāt like.
But on the other hand, I donāt get continuing to be involved in something that is no longer fun. Its supposed to be fun. Fandom is supposed to be fun.
Hereās to fun in 2014!
P.S. In the interest of full disclosure, the title to the Jensen article struck me wrong too, so much so that I told it to my Hubs (he and my friend at work are my sounding boards as fans of the show without any fandom baggage at all) and asked him what he thought of it. He said drily(with absolutely no coaching from me or background info), āJensenās the heart AND soul? So whatās Jared? Gristle and bone?ā
Alice
I love this show- anything good or bad, brothers, angels, demons, monsters,retcons annoying simply coz its Supernatural and its not just a show for me.
Though one may call it head in teh sand attitude but hell i like it no matter what coz its better to have atleast something of SPN than having nothing (when the show will end)- and i am sure with the fandom and shippers as aggressive as SPN the day is near when it will end, when writers feels its enough of the fans to interfere on everything they do.
I understand constructive criticism but wanting to see somethings each and every fans ways is not possible and ridiculous. Same as readers of this fan site wanting to read what they want and if they dont get jump to the outright nastiness.
I salute to your strength for being a support to SPN fandom, i have enjoyed this site more than anything in this internet world. I like one brother more than other, hell to day i will just point my preference in SPN starting from 1st to last- Brothers,Sam, Cass, Dean, Bobby.
Yes i like Sam more than dean and Cass more than dean but thats juts my preference and i dont fight with anyone who likes differently. But i tell you for me Brothers are my blind spot. So yeah i dont find bad if Dean/Jensen wins some award but Sam/Jared does not. For me its a win for my Brothers/J2
I had tears reading reading your experience when Jensen and Misha got the award and for Jared fans organized one award. For these actors it must be very touching to know fans care but just imagine if these actors come to know what fans say to each other for them I just pray to god that actors never get to learn all these nastiness and no misunderstanding arise between them coz i love their off-screen relation J2M all three like brothers in arm.
Curbing views are never good as this isnt a nazi world but curbing venom is important for verry aggressive fandom like SPN. People being upset i understand but there is no need to make others upset. What bothers one does mean bothers other so as individuals in love with this show i would expect fans to write their concern in a positive way
Thats all i want to implore, hope this site continues to be as interesting as it always was.
And lastly, please Sweetondean come back, we need you and everyone who writes on this site
Side note- Being a Sam/Jared fan a bit more than Dean/Jensen, i did not find the title of your article offensive. I really like the way you wrote that article but comments were god-gracious-save-me. Should i be ashamed that being Jared fan more i should be offended but was not? No I like the appreciation for both boys and who says there cant be two heart and soul for SPN?
Thanks.
Alice
I love this show- anything good or bad, brothers, angels, demons, monsters,retcons annoying simply coz its Supernatural and its not just a show for me.
Though one may call it head in teh sand attitude but hell i like it no matter what coz its better to have atleast something of SPN than having nothing (when the show will end)- and i am sure with the fandom and shippers as aggressive as SPN the day is near when it will end, when writers feels its enough of the fans to interfere on everything they do.
I understand constructive criticism but wanting to see somethings each and every fans ways is not possible and ridiculous. Same as readers of this fan site wanting to read what they want and if they dont get jump to the outright nastiness.
I salute to your strength for being a support to SPN fandom, i have enjoyed this site more than anything in this internet world. I like one brother more than other, hell to day i will just point my preference in SPN starting from 1st to last- Brothers,Sam, Cass, Dean, Bobby.
Yes i like Sam more than dean and Cass more than dean but thats juts my preference and i dont fight with anyone who likes differently. But i tell you for me Brothers are my blind spot. So yeah i dont find bad if Dean/Jensen wins some award but Sam/Jared does not. For me its a win for my Brothers/J2
I had tears reading reading your experience when Jensen and Misha got the award and for Jared fans organized one award. For these actors it must be very touching to know fans care but just imagine if these actors come to know what fans say to each other for them I just pray to god that actors never get to learn all these nastiness and no misunderstanding arise between them coz i love their off-screen relation J2M all three like brothers in arm.
Curbing views are never good as this isnt a nazi world but curbing venom is important for verry aggressive fandom like SPN. People being upset i understand but there is no need to make others upset. What bothers one does mean bothers other so as individuals in love with this show i would expect fans to write their concern in a positive way
Thats all i want to implore, hope this site continues to be as interesting as it always was.
And lastly, please Sweetondean come back, we need you and everyone who writes on this site
Side note- Being a Sam/Jared fan a bit more than Dean/Jensen, i did not find the title of your article offensive. I really like the way you wrote that article but comments were god-gracious-save-me. Should i be ashamed that being Jared fan more i should be offended but was not? No I like the appreciation for both boys and who says there cant be two heart and soul for SPN?
Thanks.
Alice Iām glad you didnāt give up. I like this site and the love and dedication that you and the other writers put in your articles. You canāt please everyone but I think that people who truly love Supernatural and its wonderful characters (and the amazing actors who play them) appreciate and respect your work, even when they disagree with you. So carry on and thanks for your great job. By the way, apologies for my English, Iām not a native speaker, Iām italian.
Alice Iām glad you didnāt give up. I like this site and the love and dedication that you and the other writers put in your articles. You canāt please everyone but I think that people who truly love Supernatural and its wonderful characters (and the amazing actors who play them) appreciate and respect your work, even when they disagree with you. So carry on and thanks for your great job. By the way, apologies for my English, Iām not a native speaker, Iām italian.
Thank you for being so honest Alice. It just proves my point that we can never full appreciate you.
Bardicvoice’s Supernatural University articles brought me to this website. Then I read you, sweetondean, far away eyes, … I’d found my heaven. I’m so glad you aren’t going to let the mean nasty posters kick us all out of heaven. They may have stolen sweetondean’s grace but if we all work together maybe we can restore it š
Thank you for being so honest Alice. It just proves my point that we can never full appreciate you.
Bardicvoice’s Supernatural University articles brought me to this website. Then I read you, sweetondean, far away eyes, … I’d found my heaven. I’m so glad you aren’t going to let the mean nasty posters kick us all out of heaven. They may have stolen sweetondean’s grace but if we all work together maybe we can restore it š
Good for you Alice. I don’t post too often on this site, because of the very issues you lived through this past year. I had no idea that you were so personally impacted by what you correctly identify as ‘the kindergarten’ mentality that seems to have infected this fandom. I limit my posts on this site, yet continue to read articles here, simply because of that mentality. I find my opinions are most often not that of the majority of posters, and I refuse to play in a kindergarten sandbox.
May the new year bring peace, good manners, and rationality to the WFB and to you once again.
Good for you Alice. I don’t post too often on this site, because of the very issues you lived through this past year. I had no idea that you were so personally impacted by what you correctly identify as ‘the kindergarten’ mentality that seems to have infected this fandom. I limit my posts on this site, yet continue to read articles here, simply because of that mentality. I find my opinions are most often not that of the majority of posters, and I refuse to play in a kindergarten sandbox.
May the new year bring peace, good manners, and rationality to the WFB and to you once again.
I am a relatively new SPN fan and don’t comment much- have never commented at this site before. I truly love the show and enjoy reading the articles here. Being an older person, I guess I am naive about fandoms and continue to be pretty shocked by some of the comments made by SPN fans. Being passionate about something or someone does not excuse bad behavior. From what I have seen and read, the young men who are the stars of the show are good role models , capable of keeping things in perspective and supporting each other, while appreciating the fans who support their show. I hope that the fans who are making cruel comments about the show or actors have a “moment” this year when they see the value in following the example the actors have set. It would make watching the show much more fun for them and make the fandom more enjoyable as well.
Thank you so much for continuing this site. I’m sorry for the problems you’ve encountered, but I know there are lots of great fans who support and appreciate you. I sure do! — AB/C
I am a relatively new SPN fan and don’t comment much- have never commented at this site before. I truly love the show and enjoy reading the articles here. Being an older person, I guess I am naive about fandoms and continue to be pretty shocked by some of the comments made by SPN fans. Being passionate about something or someone does not excuse bad behavior. From what I have seen and read, the young men who are the stars of the show are good role models , capable of keeping things in perspective and supporting each other, while appreciating the fans who support their show. I hope that the fans who are making cruel comments about the show or actors have a “moment” this year when they see the value in following the example the actors have set. It would make watching the show much more fun for them and make the fandom more enjoyable as well.
Thank you so much for continuing this site. I’m sorry for the problems you’ve encountered, but I know there are lots of great fans who support and appreciate you. I sure do! — AB/C
I have mostly been a lurker until recently and reading this article at first made me very conflicted. On the one hand, I was overjoyed to hear that Alice and this site would continue on, but what did only happy fans allowed mean? Did that mean I would no longer be welcome since I have had a fading interest in the show as of late and can’t seem to muster the same enthusiasm that I once did? I only found this site because of my fading interest in the show–I started seeking out other people’s enthusiasm in the hope it would rub off on me. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t, but I always have felt very welcome either way. I really wasn’t sure that I would want to continue with the site if discussion about what wasn’t working wasn’t allowed. I was starting to get a little worried that our safe haven would now be a bit too tame for me–I can be very fickle at times!
I have now read all the comments and I am reassured now that Alice was not intending to only have a fluffy puppies and kittens site. Real dialogue would still be encouraged as long as it is productive and civil. I think I now understand the intention and wholeheartedly support it (not that you needed my permission or support to do what you like with your site).
So, thanks Alice, and you go girl, take back your joy!
I have mostly been a lurker until recently and reading this article at first made me very conflicted. On the one hand, I was overjoyed to hear that Alice and this site would continue on, but what did only happy fans allowed mean? Did that mean I would no longer be welcome since I have had a fading interest in the show as of late and can’t seem to muster the same enthusiasm that I once did? I only found this site because of my fading interest in the show–I started seeking out other people’s enthusiasm in the hope it would rub off on me. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t, but I always have felt very welcome either way. I really wasn’t sure that I would want to continue with the site if discussion about what wasn’t working wasn’t allowed. I was starting to get a little worried that our safe haven would now be a bit too tame for me–I can be very fickle at times!
I have now read all the comments and I am reassured now that Alice was not intending to only have a fluffy puppies and kittens site. Real dialogue would still be encouraged as long as it is productive and civil. I think I now understand the intention and wholeheartedly support it (not that you needed my permission or support to do what you like with your site).
So, thanks Alice, and you go girl, take back your joy!
You go, Alice!!! Take it back, girl!!!
I noticed the negativity soon after finding the SPN fandom (middle of the 5th season) and it always confused me. I got caught up on it (reading too much on certain sights) and by the middle of S6 decided I’d had enough and started avoiding sites that leaned towards more negative than positive. Along with the constant bashing of writers, show runners, etc, etc. I found out the hard way that you can enjoy the show so much more if you don’t get pulled into that negativity. And I’m not quite sure why people who have nothing but bad to say about a show still watch it. If I stop liking a show, I stop watching. Simple.
I like conversation where you can find people who agree and don’t agree with you; where all types can contribute to a good, solid discussion about the show…and most importantly, a friendly discussion. Somewhere along the line in society, we lost the ability to TALK about all aspect of something without making personal attacks against those involved and those on the sidelines. Makes me long for the pre-internet days (yes, I’m a child of the 80’s) when things weren’t so hateful and angry.
I love this show, flaws and all, but i don’t enjoy the attacks that happen so often, fans against fans, fans against actors, fans against writers…the SPN cast and crew has done everything possible to involve it’s fans and allow us into their world for all these years. I’m going to appreciate that and the show for as long as it’s on the air.
Thanks for the article, Alice. Glad you aren’t giving up!
You go, Alice!!! Take it back, girl!!!
I noticed the negativity soon after finding the SPN fandom (middle of the 5th season) and it always confused me. I got caught up on it (reading too much on certain sights) and by the middle of S6 decided I’d had enough and started avoiding sites that leaned towards more negative than positive. Along with the constant bashing of writers, show runners, etc, etc. I found out the hard way that you can enjoy the show so much more if you don’t get pulled into that negativity. And I’m not quite sure why people who have nothing but bad to say about a show still watch it. If I stop liking a show, I stop watching. Simple.
I like conversation where you can find people who agree and don’t agree with you; where all types can contribute to a good, solid discussion about the show…and most importantly, a friendly discussion. Somewhere along the line in society, we lost the ability to TALK about all aspect of something without making personal attacks against those involved and those on the sidelines. Makes me long for the pre-internet days (yes, I’m a child of the 80’s) when things weren’t so hateful and angry.
I love this show, flaws and all, but i don’t enjoy the attacks that happen so often, fans against fans, fans against actors, fans against writers…the SPN cast and crew has done everything possible to involve it’s fans and allow us into their world for all these years. I’m going to appreciate that and the show for as long as it’s on the air.
Thanks for the article, Alice. Glad you aren’t giving up!
Okay…..Confession….
I read all the articles…….but not the comments.
I scan the comments, and I’ve trained my brain/eyes to pick out the names of posters whose thoughts and ideas I like to read. (note, ‘like to read’ does not translate to ‘only those I agree with’)
I’ve also learned whose posts to skip over. I want to be entertained and amused and have my views broadened by enjoying a discussion between people who watched the same episode I did and came away with a completely different take.
Negative, gloomy, whining, snarky, argumentive complaints and comments about ficational characters on a TV show are not something I want/need to deal with.
Unlike a moderator/adminstrator/writer/contributor to any fan site, I have a choice, so Idon’t.
Kudos Alice, as the song goes; You can’t please everyone, so you’ve got to please yourself.
Be safe and Happy this New Year.
Okay…..Confession….
I read all the articles…….but not the comments.
I scan the comments, and I’ve trained my brain/eyes to pick out the names of posters whose thoughts and ideas I like to read. (note, ‘like to read’ does not translate to ‘only those I agree with’)
I’ve also learned whose posts to skip over. I want to be entertained and amused and have my views broadened by enjoying a discussion between people who watched the same episode I did and came away with a completely different take.
Negative, gloomy, whining, snarky, argumentive complaints and comments about ficational characters on a TV show are not something I want/need to deal with.
Unlike a moderator/adminstrator/writer/contributor to any fan site, I have a choice, so Idon’t.
Kudos Alice, as the song goes; You can’t please everyone, so you’ve got to please yourself.
Be safe and Happy this New Year.
I love Supernatural and was really lucky when I finally found this site. Discussions, opinions, analyses ā here I found a lot of things I felt but couldnāt verbalize. Normally Iām reluctant to comment; (I read quite well but writingā¦), but I have to answer this post with a heartfelt āThank youā and Iām glad that you carry on. Happy New Year!
Alice,
Keep up the great work! Thanks for all you do!
Happy New Year!
I’m loving 2014 so far! š
Alice,
Keep up the great work! Thanks for all you do!
Happy New Year!
I’m loving 2014 so far! š
@46 Shey:
I started doing this too. Just scanning the posts I felt added something to the discussion even if it was nothing more than ethusiasm (I do love to read the Squee! comments) and when I came across certain names I just skipped their posts.
It’s not so much that I’m looking for happy, fluffy, bunny posts but I’m looking for reasonably intelligent discourse about the show. I love to read others take on an episode I loved even if they didn’t like it . The problem isn’t disagreeing with an opinion, its how the disagreement is stated. It’s understating that however a person feels is only how they feel, not how everyone else feels.
For me though, it’s not enough to just tell me you hated something. Please explain and clarify why you hated it and site examples or something. Tell me what you’re thinking. And if it takes a while to get your thoughts to together then go ahead and take your time. I’ll wait.
For example, I got nothing against people who ship Destiel (I ship nothing, I’ll read anything that’s dark, cuz that’s just my bag.) My impatience for them is that so many claim it’s canon but don’t back that up with any facts beyond – I said so. I would love it if they stated why and sited moments in the show that made such a belief clear to them, but so many of them don’t do that.
Another thing is people completely and over the top reacting to tiny details in an episode. I stated on another forum that I’m the kind of person who undereacts to stuff so there’s always going to be a certain amount of eyeball-rolling coming from me but I have no patience for blatant hyperbole. I love enthusiasm but careful thought is what convinces me of an argument ,not wild and crazy speculation.
#44 ME: What I’m getting from Alice is that you can criticize the show all you want but expalin why. Tell your theory, back it up with some rational thought. If you found something problematic then tell why it was problematic for you. I’d love to hear it.I’ve heard a few people say they lacked enthusiasm for this season, so you’re not alone.
@46 Shey:
I started doing this too. Just scanning the posts I felt added something to the discussion even if it was nothing more than ethusiasm (I do love to read the Squee! comments) and when I came across certain names I just skipped their posts.
It’s not so much that I’m looking for happy, fluffy, bunny posts but I’m looking for reasonably intelligent discourse about the show. I love to read others take on an episode I loved even if they didn’t like it . The problem isn’t disagreeing with an opinion, its how the disagreement is stated. It’s understating that however a person feels is only how they feel, not how everyone else feels.
For me though, it’s not enough to just tell me you hated something. Please explain and clarify why you hated it and site examples or something. Tell me what you’re thinking. And if it takes a while to get your thoughts to together then go ahead and take your time. I’ll wait.
For example, I got nothing against people who ship Destiel (I ship nothing, I’ll read anything that’s dark, cuz that’s just my bag.) My impatience for them is that so many claim it’s canon but don’t back that up with any facts beyond – I said so. I would love it if they stated why and sited moments in the show that made such a belief clear to them, but so many of them don’t do that.
Another thing is people completely and over the top reacting to tiny details in an episode. I stated on another forum that I’m the kind of person who undereacts to stuff so there’s always going to be a certain amount of eyeball-rolling coming from me but I have no patience for blatant hyperbole. I love enthusiasm but careful thought is what convinces me of an argument ,not wild and crazy speculation.
#44 ME: What I’m getting from Alice is that you can criticize the show all you want but expalin why. Tell your theory, back it up with some rational thought. If you found something problematic then tell why it was problematic for you. I’d love to hear it.I’ve heard a few people say they lacked enthusiasm for this season, so you’re not alone.
Good for you, Alice. I love your writing, love and support of this amazing show. Thank you for not giving up on those of us who also love this show just as it is and without destructive complaints. I really enjoy your site and look forward to enjoying it throughout 2014. Again thanks for hanging in there for us. HAPPY NEW YEAR.
Good for you, Alice. I love your writing, love and support of this amazing show. Thank you for not giving up on those of us who also love this show just as it is and without destructive complaints. I really enjoy your site and look forward to enjoying it throughout 2014. Again thanks for hanging in there for us. HAPPY NEW YEAR.
I’m so glad you are going to carry on Alice! I too was despairing of all the negativity among the fan factions overwhelming the fans who are still enjoying the best ever show on television!
The negative factions are no doubt the loudest and the most off-putting in the fandom. Destiel, S vs D, Wincesters, even telling the writers how to write, as if they could do it better. The noisiest nastiest can overwhelm as the fans just enjoying their show will just not be bothered responding to all that nonsense. I have friends who still love this show and know nothing of the warring factions. The majority of the fans still love the show. They just don’t scream it to all and every. The silent majority!
Don’t let the mean negativity beat out all of us who love and appreciate our show and all those who make it possible. We are so lucky to have it and we will be so sad when it ends. (I hope it never does)
Your article for Jensen that you wrote was just so very beautiful and appreciated. It brought the tears to my eyes to read such a wonderful article praising who I believe is an awesomely talented actor who because he is in a genre show (even though it is a superior one to the usual network shows) doesn’t get the rewards he truly deserves. I truly believe that the character of Dean Winchester that Jensen has brought to life, is one of the most fascinating of all time.
I’m so upset to see that sweetondean has left the site! I so look forward to her reviews and articles. Her and Bardicvoice are my very favourite writers of the show. Please please come back, both of you. Don’t let them win!!!
I’m sticking with you Alice, even if I have to ignore all the comments. And having read these comments, I seem to be within the 99% who are with you lwholeheartedly. Let’s have fun with our show like we used to!! š š
I’m so glad you are going to carry on Alice! I too was despairing of all the negativity among the fan factions overwhelming the fans who are still enjoying the best ever show on television!
The negative factions are no doubt the loudest and the most off-putting in the fandom. Destiel, S vs D, Wincesters, even telling the writers how to write, as if they could do it better. The noisiest nastiest can overwhelm as the fans just enjoying their show will just not be bothered responding to all that nonsense. I have friends who still love this show and know nothing of the warring factions. The majority of the fans still love the show. They just don’t scream it to all and every. The silent majority!
Don’t let the mean negativity beat out all of us who love and appreciate our show and all those who make it possible. We are so lucky to have it and we will be so sad when it ends. (I hope it never does)
Your article for Jensen that you wrote was just so very beautiful and appreciated. It brought the tears to my eyes to read such a wonderful article praising who I believe is an awesomely talented actor who because he is in a genre show (even though it is a superior one to the usual network shows) doesn’t get the rewards he truly deserves. I truly believe that the character of Dean Winchester that Jensen has brought to life, is one of the most fascinating of all time.
I’m so upset to see that sweetondean has left the site! I so look forward to her reviews and articles. Her and Bardicvoice are my very favourite writers of the show. Please please come back, both of you. Don’t let them win!!!
I’m sticking with you Alice, even if I have to ignore all the comments. And having read these comments, I seem to be within the 99% who are with you lwholeheartedly. Let’s have fun with our show like we used to!! š š
Thank you Alice for all of your hard work on this site. I also do not read the comments but mainly just skip over them-the negativity got to me.
So, here’s to the New Year and to our continued support of Supernatural.
Thank you Alice for all of your hard work on this site. I also do not read the comments but mainly just skip over them-the negativity got to me.
So, here’s to the New Year and to our continued support of Supernatural.
Bevie you read my mind. I was just going to say the same thing. Judging by the ratings this year the show is doing better than it has in 3 years. I would have to say that millions around the world are happy fans and only a very small handful are dissatisfied. Maybe this move will encourage the silent majority to be a little more vocal. I would love to just discuss the episode, the ramifications of the actions of the characters, speculating on where the story might go, hoping it all works out in the end and hoping that it never ends. Alice I hope you can write more reviews now that we have lost Sweetondean. Good luck and thanks for hanging in there.
Bevie you read my mind. I was just going to say the same thing. Judging by the ratings this year the show is doing better than it has in 3 years. I would have to say that millions around the world are happy fans and only a very small handful are dissatisfied. Maybe this move will encourage the silent majority to be a little more vocal. I would love to just discuss the episode, the ramifications of the actions of the characters, speculating on where the story might go, hoping it all works out in the end and hoping that it never ends. Alice I hope you can write more reviews now that we have lost Sweetondean. Good luck and thanks for hanging in there.
Thank you Alice – I am glad that you are sticking around and putting some boundaries on this site to bring back the fun. I really enjoy reading all the articles (will miss SweetonDean heaps) but have also been trying to avoid reading comments on many articles. Your article on Jensen was one of the most beautifully considered and written I have read and each of the examples of Jensen’s magic that you mentioned I agree with 1000%. You didn’t deserve to be hit with what followed (I avoided reading most of those comments to preserve my good blood pressure). So Bravo, thank you and good luck with both sites for 2014. š
Thank you Alice – I am glad that you are sticking around and putting some boundaries on this site to bring back the fun. I really enjoy reading all the articles (will miss SweetonDean heaps) but have also been trying to avoid reading comments on many articles. Your article on Jensen was one of the most beautifully considered and written I have read and each of the examples of Jensen’s magic that you mentioned I agree with 1000%. You didn’t deserve to be hit with what followed (I avoided reading most of those comments to preserve my good blood pressure). So Bravo, thank you and good luck with both sites for 2014. š
Alice@28 I just wanted to say that I was not offended at Sakii’s comment. I was not upset or attacking Sakii. My point was that her examples (and I was aware that they were examples not her saying those things) were the kinds of things that start conflict and the people who say those sorts things could be more tactful in their phrasing. Also that no one should be surprised that offense could be taken by a “passionate” fan at comments that are meant to provoke (NOT Sakii’s comments- her examples) You said to feel free to get it all out and I thought it was a fair point. I have always been supportive of you, this site, and civility.
Alice@28 I just wanted to say that I was not offended at Sakii’s comment. I was not upset or attacking Sakii. My point was that her examples (and I was aware that they were examples not her saying those things) were the kinds of things that start conflict and the people who say those sorts things could be more tactful in their phrasing. Also that no one should be surprised that offense could be taken by a “passionate” fan at comments that are meant to provoke (NOT Sakii’s comments- her examples) You said to feel free to get it all out and I thought it was a fair point. I have always been supportive of you, this site, and civility.
As I started to read your article, Alice, I was really afraid that this was your letter of goodbye and the demise of the WFB. I am one of the older (over 50) fans who came to love SPN late in the game and was eager to find a good fan site where I could indulge my passion for this wonderful show. After getting a taste of negative fan wanking from some “fan” site, I was so fortunate to come across the WFB. The atmosphere here was so different! So intelligent, informative, mature and fun at the same time! I am so grateful that you have decided not cave in to the negativity and have decided to reclaim the site. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication! I love the WFB!
Lisa
As I started to read your article, Alice, I was really afraid that this was your letter of goodbye and the demise of the WFB. I am one of the older (over 50) fans who came to love SPN late in the game and was eager to find a good fan site where I could indulge my passion for this wonderful show. After getting a taste of negative fan wanking from some “fan” site, I was so fortunate to come across the WFB. The atmosphere here was so different! So intelligent, informative, mature and fun at the same time! I am so grateful that you have decided not cave in to the negativity and have decided to reclaim the site. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication! I love the WFB!
Lisa
This makes me so happy, Alice! I am totally on board with you standing up and recapturing the positive side of the fandom (because we are out there!)
I am excited to be back in full force! š
This makes me so happy, Alice! I am totally on board with you standing up and recapturing the positive side of the fandom (because we are out there!)
I am excited to be back in full force! š
Iām glad you decided to post this, Alice. Behaviour from all sides of the fandom has, for me, been stretching the bounds of respectful behaviour, for a while now.
I think I’m different from many posters on here in that criticism of the show doesnāt overly bother me, it never has. Their thoughts are not necessarily my thoughts so If people want to talk about canon irregularities or OCC characterisation thatās fine because often thatās what leads to clarity, explanation of situations or genuine, thought provoking discussion. If people like an episode/character/season then great , no-ones going to begrudge them that and if people don’t like it, ah well They might like the next one. Either way, another persons like or dislike of an episode etc really has no impact on me because I feel that the only person who is responsible for my enjoyment of an episode etc is me, not anyone else. Iām not obliged to read every comment posted so if the ānegativityā about the show gets too much or if people are repeating themselves then the scroll down button costs me about Ā½ a second of time and the use of a few muscles in my right pointer finger, no biggie. (I guess Iām lucky in that I [i]can[/i] do that, Iām not a moderator. I imagine if I had to go through every comment posted Iād be saying something else…..)
However, what bothers me a lot more than ānegativityā towards the show, is negativity directed at posters and that was something that we were seeing more and more of, and which pushed me further and further away from the site. It seemed that more and more often I was coming across comments criticising people, saying how irrational, how annoying, how mean, how off-putting, how nauseating, how critical, how whiny, how nitpicky etc etc their opinions, their [i]thoughts[/i] about an episode etc were. I find that harder to not be bothered by because Iāve seen the effect that sort of behaviour has when, if a student gives their thoughts or analysis (whether positive or critical) on a piece and another student starts rolling their eyes, or scoffing or passing snide remarks etc, it generally does not make that person keen to volunteer their opinion again, and unfortunately, I think weāve also seen a lot of that here in recent times
So, thatās what I hope the site will return to, a site where posters respect the opinions of others, a happy and [i]safe[/i] site for all posters, not just those we agree with. Hereās hoping TWFB 2014 and all its posters and readers will see those resolutions achieved.
Iām glad you decided to post this, Alice. Behaviour from all sides of the fandom has, for me, been stretching the bounds of respectful behaviour, for a while now.
I think I’m different from many posters on here in that criticism of the show doesnāt overly bother me, it never has. Their thoughts are not necessarily my thoughts so If people want to talk about canon irregularities or OCC characterisation thatās fine because often thatās what leads to clarity, explanation of situations or genuine, thought provoking discussion. If people like an episode/character/season then great , no-ones going to begrudge them that and if people don’t like it, ah well They might like the next one. Either way, another persons like or dislike of an episode etc really has no impact on me because I feel that the only person who is responsible for my enjoyment of an episode etc is me, not anyone else. Iām not obliged to read every comment posted so if the ānegativityā about the show gets too much or if people are repeating themselves then the scroll down button costs me about Ā½ a second of time and the use of a few muscles in my right pointer finger, no biggie. (I guess Iām lucky in that I [i]can[/i] do that, Iām not a moderator. I imagine if I had to go through every comment posted Iād be saying something else…..)
However, what bothers me a lot more than ānegativityā towards the show, is negativity directed at posters and that was something that we were seeing more and more of, and which pushed me further and further away from the site. It seemed that more and more often I was coming across comments criticising people, saying how irrational, how annoying, how mean, how off-putting, how nauseating, how critical, how whiny, how nitpicky etc etc their opinions, their [i]thoughts[/i] about an episode etc were. I find that harder to not be bothered by because Iāve seen the effect that sort of behaviour has when, if a student gives their thoughts or analysis (whether positive or critical) on a piece and another student starts rolling their eyes, or scoffing or passing snide remarks etc, it generally does not make that person keen to volunteer their opinion again, and unfortunately, I think weāve also seen a lot of that here in recent times
So, thatās what I hope the site will return to, a site where posters respect the opinions of others, a happy and [i]safe[/i] site for all posters, not just those we agree with. Hereās hoping TWFB 2014 and all its posters and readers will see those resolutions achieved.
Alice, thank you for everything you do. I have always loved your articles. I say “always” even though I am fairly new to this site. I loved you, Bardicvoice and especially SweetonDean. SoD because she is so sweetly enthusiastic.
And I have also “always” worried about you. I’m so glad you are taking control and running your site the way you want it run. I am 100% behind you!
#51 Bevie, I agree with you. You read my mind.
Alice, a lot of us totally support you. Never give up hope. Thank you. We love you!
Alice, thank you for everything you do. I have always loved your articles. I say “always” even though I am fairly new to this site. I loved you, Bardicvoice and especially SweetonDean. SoD because she is so sweetly enthusiastic.
And I have also “always” worried about you. I’m so glad you are taking control and running your site the way you want it run. I am 100% behind you!
#51 Bevie, I agree with you. You read my mind.
Alice, a lot of us totally support you. Never give up hope. Thank you. We love you!
Thanks Alice for keeping the site going. For me, this is the only place left in fandom where I feel I can post.
I’m puzzled though by the many comments mentioning “mean” and “nasty” posts, since I haven’t seen anything like that here. There’s been negativity, sure, but surely having different views on story or characters isn’t being mean or nasty. That’s why I come here, instead of almost everywhere else. The people here are angels compared to places like TWOP or IMBD.
And @ #58 Tim, I agree with you 100%.
Thanks Alice for keeping the site going. For me, this is the only place left in fandom where I feel I can post.
I’m puzzled though by the many comments mentioning “mean” and “nasty” posts, since I haven’t seen anything like that here. There’s been negativity, sure, but surely having different views on story or characters isn’t being mean or nasty. That’s why I come here, instead of almost everywhere else. The people here are angels compared to places like TWOP or IMBD.
And @ #58 Tim, I agree with you 100%.
I love the writers on this site and may not agree all the time, but that’s fine. I don’t always have the need to give my opinion either. Mostly I appreciate the insight you, Alice and others have. It makes me think. Those who comment also have useful opinions. And then there’s those others. I don’t get them either, so if a comment is nasty I skip it. We all love this show and should show our love. Be nice.
I love the writers on this site and may not agree all the time, but that’s fine. I don’t always have the need to give my opinion either. Mostly I appreciate the insight you, Alice and others have. It makes me think. Those who comment also have useful opinions. And then there’s those others. I don’t get them either, so if a comment is nasty I skip it. We all love this show and should show our love. Be nice.
I’ve come to this site because I so admire the work you do to keep us all informed and entertained.
About 2 years ago, a friend of mine and I were having website issues in a completely different venue and the problem was Joomla.
Have you considered another hosting site?
I’ve come to this site because I so admire the work you do to keep us all informed and entertained.
About 2 years ago, a friend of mine and I were having website issues in a completely different venue and the problem was Joomla.
Have you considered another hosting site?
shellyathome – Oh absolutely! I so wanted to ditch Joomla after this disastrous and very buggy version of 2.5 they made us upgrade to, even though they didn’t provide us a program or a way to upgrade! We had to get a third party program, and it was flawed. We are running Joomla 3.0 on TV For The Rest of Us and they completely broke RSS feeds and Captcha in that version. It’s appalling what they expect us site administrators to do in terms of fixing their own blatant screw ups. I’m just floored that in upgrading to these versions, I had to rebuild these sites from scratch. That just isn’t the way upgrades work.
However, I tried testing out a WordPress site and I couldn’t get it to work the way I want. I basically want a WordPress site that does a layout like this. There’s so little good information out there, and I just didn’t have time to learn. I have 5 years into debugging Joomla sites, so I believe I’m stuck.
I’m open to all suggestions!
shellyathome – Oh absolutely! I so wanted to ditch Joomla after this disastrous and very buggy version of 2.5 they made us upgrade to, even though they didn’t provide us a program or a way to upgrade! We had to get a third party program, and it was flawed. We are running Joomla 3.0 on TV For The Rest of Us and they completely broke RSS feeds and Captcha in that version. It’s appalling what they expect us site administrators to do in terms of fixing their own blatant screw ups. I’m just floored that in upgrading to these versions, I had to rebuild these sites from scratch. That just isn’t the way upgrades work.
However, I tried testing out a WordPress site and I couldn’t get it to work the way I want. I basically want a WordPress site that does a layout like this. There’s so little good information out there, and I just didn’t have time to learn. I have 5 years into debugging Joomla sites, so I believe I’m stuck.
I’m open to all suggestions!
I’m a little late to chime in… because, honestly I was afraid this was a negative article!! lol… I thought someone was going to tear at the show for the way it was going and wanting it to go back the way it was in the beginning.
After I read sweetondeans resignation and the post to show inconsistencies in a new light, I realized I was wrong.
I am so glad to see this change!! AND look forward to it. We are here because we love this show and it will be great to discuss that love.
Carry on WFB… we are with you!
I’m a little late to chime in… because, honestly I was afraid this was a negative article!! lol… I thought someone was going to tear at the show for the way it was going and wanting it to go back the way it was in the beginning.
After I read sweetondeans resignation and the post to show inconsistencies in a new light, I realized I was wrong.
I am so glad to see this change!! AND look forward to it. We are here because we love this show and it will be great to discuss that love.
Carry on WFB… we are with you!
There are so many hosting engines out there, like this: http://www.hostgator.com/ .. just to name one that might be better for you and that offers consistent support.
Good luck! It’s not easy changing over, but the best one will allow easy transition to the new site and once you change, you’ll be relieved.
WordPress is great too!
There are so many hosting engines out there, like this: http://www.hostgator.com/ .. just to name one that might be better for you and that offers consistent support.
Good luck! It’s not easy changing over, but the best one will allow easy transition to the new site and once you change, you’ll be relieved.
WordPress is great too!
Love Supernatural. Love this site. And all the common sense. š Love being a fan. Happiest of New Years. Looking forward with joy to our work together.
Love Supernatural. Love this site. And all the common sense. š Love being a fan. Happiest of New Years. Looking forward with joy to our work together.
Crazy Circles…
I’ve been getting that feeling in other aspects of my life lately… that transitional feeling… and the recognition that sometimes transitions bring you back to where you started (or darned close). It seems only right and proper that the same would occur for you, Alice, and in fact for all of us, here.
Maybe we should have a house-warming party! {grin}
I admire your true grit and want to express my gratitude to you and your team (current and… vacationing) for the labors of love you undertake and share on behalf of “our little show.”
At their best (IMO), places like you’ve built here are like book clubs that don’t require the gang to venture out on -50 degree windchill factor days. Believe me when I say some of us are finding immense value in that right about now (LOL)!
So… cheers!
And Go Green Bay! {hee}
Hello Alice and fellow fans, I read this article when you first published it, and my knee-jerk reaction was to write a reply immediately, but I knew better. So now I’ve had a few days to reflect on whats been said here, and my initial thought still stands.
There are fans like me who LOVE the show and what it represents, who glory in the wonderful writing, yes, the cute guys, the fact that it can just take us away. I’ve been to 3 cons and have my 4th planned, so yes, I am a dedicated fan. But my life does not revolve around SPN. I have a business and 2 kids and a (thankfully) very understanding husband. Yes, I’ve spent WAAAAY too many hours watching fan videos, reading and writing fanfic, etc, etc, but I’ve enjoyed every second. But I am also one of those fans that can shrug when someone tweets a disparaging remark about being a ‘samgirl’ or click off a tumbler account when I see fans going at it over who ships who…and I guess that means I’m more of a quiet fan.
My point is, Alice and everyone, there are so many WONDERFUL fans out there that keep their opinions to themselves, that turn a cheek when they see some crap post. You just dont hear from us. Those ‘fans’ (and I quite happily use quotes here) that are SO intense and opinionated and feel they must be heard are the bad apples. Let’s not let them ruin it for us.
So I say to those ‘fans’ that fill the forums with drama, to GET A LIFE. Stop hurting people – like Alice – that you dont know. Stop fighting about foolish and trivial minutia. Stop taking the angst and funneling it into a fandom that once was – and hopefully again will be – beautiful and loving and fun! SPN is entertainment – so let it again fill up our cups and runneth over.
And to those quiet fans like me, lets let the people that matter – the writers of the shows, the bloggers (sweetondean, this one’s for you), other fans, about the good stuff. And to hell with the bad.
Hello Alice and fellow fans, I read this article when you first published it, and my knee-jerk reaction was to write a reply immediately, but I knew better. So now I’ve had a few days to reflect on whats been said here, and my initial thought still stands.
There are fans like me who LOVE the show and what it represents, who glory in the wonderful writing, yes, the cute guys, the fact that it can just take us away. I’ve been to 3 cons and have my 4th planned, so yes, I am a dedicated fan. But my life does not revolve around SPN. I have a business and 2 kids and a (thankfully) very understanding husband. Yes, I’ve spent WAAAAY too many hours watching fan videos, reading and writing fanfic, etc, etc, but I’ve enjoyed every second. But I am also one of those fans that can shrug when someone tweets a disparaging remark about being a ‘samgirl’ or click off a tumbler account when I see fans going at it over who ships who…and I guess that means I’m more of a quiet fan.
My point is, Alice and everyone, there are so many WONDERFUL fans out there that keep their opinions to themselves, that turn a cheek when they see some crap post. You just dont hear from us. Those ‘fans’ (and I quite happily use quotes here) that are SO intense and opinionated and feel they must be heard are the bad apples. Let’s not let them ruin it for us.
So I say to those ‘fans’ that fill the forums with drama, to GET A LIFE. Stop hurting people – like Alice – that you dont know. Stop fighting about foolish and trivial minutia. Stop taking the angst and funneling it into a fandom that once was – and hopefully again will be – beautiful and loving and fun! SPN is entertainment – so let it again fill up our cups and runneth over.
And to those quiet fans like me, lets let the people that matter – the writers of the shows, the bloggers (sweetondean, this one’s for you), other fans, about the good stuff. And to hell with the bad.
…and Alice, you said we could let it all hang out…so I did… :-*
…and Alice, you said we could let it all hang out…so I did… :-*
Finally gave up on trying to log in and decided to re-register instead.
Thank you Alice for this article, I found myself nodding and smiling as I read it and actually felt a strong burst of renewed energy so the air must have been electric while you were writing. š
My feelings are very similar to many of the other readers and it occurred to me, perhaps I should try to be a more active poster. I am really not sure how that would work as it is not within my comfort zone, and add to that my ability to critique is restricted to hmmmmm, don’t much like that, grab the remote, change the channel or turn the tv off and put the music on or turn the volume down and read my book!
I have never not enjoyed an episode of Supernatural. Yes, there have been episodes I have enjoyed more than others, and yes some episodes have been re-watched more than others. There is not one single episode in the entire series so far that I have only watched once. For me, there is always something extra to pick up on, things I missed in the first viewing, a glance here, a fleeting emotion crossing the face, an almost involuntary movement and depending upon what the episode is focusing on sometimes an unexpected emotional response from me. It’s one of the things I find so fascinating about Supernatural, how this ‘little show that could’, can draw such a wide range of emotional responses from the viewers.
I veer very much into the extreme positive, a glass half full person, not just because the glass IS half full but because there is then room for even more. One of my favourite quotes is:
[i]If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change the way [b]YOU[/b] think about it.[/i]
Each of us own our opinions and our attitudes, we are responsible for how we chose to portray those to the rest of the world, and we are also wholly responsible for how we react to the opinions and attitudes of other people. When we chose to react with love it’s amazing how quickly the attitudes of other people seem to change!! š
All the very best in getting your site back Alice and I look forward to attempting a more extended participation.
Anita
Finally gave up on trying to log in and decided to re-register instead.
Thank you Alice for this article, I found myself nodding and smiling as I read it and actually felt a strong burst of renewed energy so the air must have been electric while you were writing. š
My feelings are very similar to many of the other readers and it occurred to me, perhaps I should try to be a more active poster. I am really not sure how that would work as it is not within my comfort zone, and add to that my ability to critique is restricted to hmmmmm, don’t much like that, grab the remote, change the channel or turn the tv off and put the music on or turn the volume down and read my book!
I have never not enjoyed an episode of Supernatural. Yes, there have been episodes I have enjoyed more than others, and yes some episodes have been re-watched more than others. There is not one single episode in the entire series so far that I have only watched once. For me, there is always something extra to pick up on, things I missed in the first viewing, a glance here, a fleeting emotion crossing the face, an almost involuntary movement and depending upon what the episode is focusing on sometimes an unexpected emotional response from me. It’s one of the things I find so fascinating about Supernatural, how this ‘little show that could’, can draw such a wide range of emotional responses from the viewers.
I veer very much into the extreme positive, a glass half full person, not just because the glass IS half full but because there is then room for even more. One of my favourite quotes is:
[i]If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change the way [b]YOU[/b] think about it.[/i]
Each of us own our opinions and our attitudes, we are responsible for how we chose to portray those to the rest of the world, and we are also wholly responsible for how we react to the opinions and attitudes of other people. When we chose to react with love it’s amazing how quickly the attitudes of other people seem to change!! š
All the very best in getting your site back Alice and I look forward to attempting a more extended participation.
Anita
[quote name=”mainegirlwrites”]Hello Alice and fellow fans, I read this article when you first published it, and my knee-jerk reaction was to write a reply immediately, but I knew better. So now I’ve had a few days to reflect on whats been said here, and my initial thought still stands.
There are fans like me who LOVE the show and what it represents, who glory in the wonderful writing, yes, the cute guys, the fact that it can just take us away. I’ve been to 3 cons and have my 4th planned, so yes, I am a dedicated fan. But my life does not revolve around SPN. I have a business and 2 kids and a (thankfully) very understanding husband. Yes, I’ve spent WAAAAY too many hours watching fan videos, reading and writing fanfic, etc, etc, but I’ve enjoyed every second. But I am also one of those fans that can shrug when someone tweets a disparaging remark about being a ‘samgirl’ or click off a tumbler account when I see fans going at it over who ships who…and I guess that means I’m more of a quiet fan.
My point is, Alice and everyone, there are so many WONDERFUL fans out there that keep their opinions to themselves, that turn a cheek when they see some crap post. You just dont hear from us. Those ‘fans’ (and I quite happily use quotes here) that are SO intense and opinionated and feel they must be heard are the bad apples. Let’s not let them ruin it for us.
So I say to those ‘fans’ that fill the forums with drama, to GET A LIFE. Stop hurting people – like Alice – that you dont know. Stop fighting about foolish and trivial minutia. Stop taking the angst and funneling it into a fandom that once was – and hopefully again will be – beautiful and loving and fun! SPN is entertainment – so let it again fill up our cups and runneth over.
And to those quiet fans like me, lets let the people that matter – the writers of the shows, the bloggers (sweetondean, this one’s for you), other fans, about the good stuff. And to hell with the bad.[/quote]
Sorry why are people who give a opinion ‘bad apples’?.
Certainly there can be extreme views within the fandom and view’s for those who love the show to a inch of it’s life might find uncomfortable but alot of opinion’s are honest ones given thought and that are actually valid. I have no issues with fans that love the show , that seen no wrong or think the writing is great . But I cannot be one of those people because I would be lying , because I do not feel that way. I try to give reasons why I feel the way I do , I am not perfect but in a vast fandom you cannot control other people’s thoughts or views. But that does not make all of the people bad apples they just see the show differently.
My feelings on alot of the writing for Sam has not changed .I would be unfair on myself if I tried to pretend otherwise. I hope in the future that both positive but critical opinions will both be welcome as long has they are within the rules.
[quote]Hello Alice and fellow fans, I read this article when you first published it, and my knee-jerk reaction was to write a reply immediately, but I knew better. So now I’ve had a few days to reflect on whats been said here, and my initial thought still stands.
There are fans like me who LOVE the show and what it represents, who glory in the wonderful writing, yes, the cute guys, the fact that it can just take us away. I’ve been to 3 cons and have my 4th planned, so yes, I am a dedicated fan. But my life does not revolve around SPN. I have a business and 2 kids and a (thankfully) very understanding husband. Yes, I’ve spent WAAAAY too many hours watching fan videos, reading and writing fanfic, etc, etc, but I’ve enjoyed every second. But I am also one of those fans that can shrug when someone tweets a disparaging remark about being a ‘samgirl’ or click off a tumbler account when I see fans going at it over who ships who…and I guess that means I’m more of a quiet fan.
My point is, Alice and everyone, there are so many WONDERFUL fans out there that keep their opinions to themselves, that turn a cheek when they see some crap post. You just dont hear from us. Those ‘fans’ (and I quite happily use quotes here) that are SO intense and opinionated and feel they must be heard are the bad apples. Let’s not let them ruin it for us.
So I say to those ‘fans’ that fill the forums with drama, to GET A LIFE. Stop hurting people – like Alice – that you dont know. Stop fighting about foolish and trivial minutia. Stop taking the angst and funneling it into a fandom that once was – and hopefully again will be – beautiful and loving and fun! SPN is entertainment – so let it again fill up our cups and runneth over.
And to those quiet fans like me, lets let the people that matter – the writers of the shows, the bloggers (sweetondean, this one’s for you), other fans, about the good stuff. And to hell with the bad.[/quote]
Sorry why are people who give a opinion ‘bad apples’?.
Certainly there can be extreme views within the fandom and view’s for those who love the show to a inch of it’s life might find uncomfortable but alot of opinion’s are honest ones given thought and that are actually valid. I have no issues with fans that love the show , that seen no wrong or think the writing is great . But I cannot be one of those people because I would be lying , because I do not feel that way. I try to give reasons why I feel the way I do , I am not perfect but in a vast fandom you cannot control other people’s thoughts or views. But that does not make all of the people bad apples they just see the show differently.
My feelings on alot of the writing for Sam has not changed .I would be unfair on myself if I tried to pretend otherwise. I hope in the future that both positive but critical opinions will both be welcome as long has they are within the rules.
Sharon, I think you may be having some of the conflict I was having when I first read this article. I was worried that if I had an issue with something on the show that I would not be welcome to discuss it here. But after I read the comments (focusing mostly on Alice’s comments) and I realized that was not what her intent was. It’s not that one might have a differing opinion, but how that opinion is stated. I think she is basically saying that she will no longer tolerate posters attacking or bullying other posters. My take is that she is saying love the show in any way you want, but don’t dump on someone else for loving it differently.
A good example of this would be the Cannon-ball Award thread she started. She basically challenged us to take some of the perceived cannon problems of late and turn them into a positive. I don’t think that she is saying the show is perfect and anyone who sees flaws is not welcome, but I think she is saying that we all are welcome as long as we are civil to one another. I know she said it isn’t Kindergarten, but yeah it kinda is…
Sharon, I think you may be having some of the conflict I was having when I first read this article. I was worried that if I had an issue with something on the show that I would not be welcome to discuss it here. But after I read the comments (focusing mostly on Alice’s comments) and I realized that was not what her intent was. It’s not that one might have a differing opinion, but how that opinion is stated. I think she is basically saying that she will no longer tolerate posters attacking or bullying other posters. My take is that she is saying love the show in any way you want, but don’t dump on someone else for loving it differently.
A good example of this would be the Cannon-ball Award thread she started. She basically challenged us to take some of the perceived cannon problems of late and turn them into a positive. I don’t think that she is saying the show is perfect and anyone who sees flaws is not welcome, but I think she is saying that we all are welcome as long as we are civil to one another. I know she said it isn’t Kindergarten, but yeah it kinda is…
Sharon, I do understand how you feel. The main reason I stopped posting here is I felt my opinions were not welcome. I was very critical of Sam’s story last year, and I still am. I could rant about it again right now, but I will not. Haha!
I don’t think there is anything wrong w/respectfully stating your displeasure w/a storyline, but I just got the feeling that while negative opinions are not precluded on this board, they are not necessarily wanted. And, to me, the tone of this article just confirms that in my mind.
It’s funny b/c on other boards, this site is described as a “Sam site,” but I tend to tell people that it is a site where almost everyone enjoys everything about Supernatural. Even when I was regularly posting here, I often hesitated about posting my thoughts since they were so different from most of the comments. I think it is fine if Alice and the regular posters want to keep things primarily positive, but that is no longer me. I’m not that fan anymore, and I really haven’t been since S5.
I’ve been watching this show since it debuted. I got involved in the online fandom around S4. At one time, Supernatural was my favorite show, and I loved everything about it, but that is not the case for me anymore. Like you, I cannot pretend to be happy when I’m not happy. I do see problems w/the show. If there is something about an episode I dislike, I need the space and freedom to express my dislike w/o being labeled a “bad apple,” “horrible fan,” or even “negative,” and that is not this site, IMO. And as Tim said, opposing opinions do not bother me or impact my viewing. We all can’t like the same things. If we did, it would make for a boring world.
I like reading opposing views. I like debating things about the show. It’s all in good fun to me, but I understand that not everyone feels the same way. Some take criticism very seriously, and it seems to greatly upset them. So, I will continue to refrain from posting here and will just lurk to read the comments every so often.
Sharon, I do understand how you feel. The main reason I stopped posting here is I felt my opinions were not welcome. I was very critical of Sam’s story last year, and I still am. I could rant about it again right now, but I will not. Haha!
I don’t think there is anything wrong w/respectfully stating your displeasure w/a storyline, but I just got the feeling that while negative opinions are not precluded on this board, they are not necessarily wanted. And, to me, the tone of this article just confirms that in my mind.
It’s funny b/c on other boards, this site is described as a “Sam site,” but I tend to tell people that it is a site where almost everyone enjoys everything about Supernatural. Even when I was regularly posting here, I often hesitated about posting my thoughts since they were so different from most of the comments. I think it is fine if Alice and the regular posters want to keep things primarily positive, but that is no longer me. I’m not that fan anymore, and I really haven’t been since S5.
I’ve been watching this show since it debuted. I got involved in the online fandom around S4. At one time, Supernatural was my favorite show, and I loved everything about it, but that is not the case for me anymore. Like you, I cannot pretend to be happy when I’m not happy. I do see problems w/the show. If there is something about an episode I dislike, I need the space and freedom to express my dislike w/o being labeled a “bad apple,” “horrible fan,” or even “negative,” and that is not this site, IMO. And as Tim said, opposing opinions do not bother me or impact my viewing. We all can’t like the same things. If we did, it would make for a boring world.
I like reading opposing views. I like debating things about the show. It’s all in good fun to me, but I understand that not everyone feels the same way. Some take criticism very seriously, and it seems to greatly upset them. So, I will continue to refrain from posting here and will just lurk to read the comments every so often.
I might be misunderstanding the thought behind the article but I thought it just meant when a review is posted you discuss the review. You talk about the episode. If you want to express your displeasure with the show in general their are bitterness threads for that. I didn’t get the impression that you couldn’t say anything negative about the episode just not stating over and over again how unhappy you are with the show, the writers, the actors, etc. Again please correct me if I am wrong that is just my impression.
I might be misunderstanding the thought behind the article but I thought it just meant when a review is posted you discuss the review. You talk about the episode. If you want to express your displeasure with the show in general their are bitterness threads for that. I didn’t get the impression that you couldn’t say anything negative about the episode just not stating over and over again how unhappy you are with the show, the writers, the actors, etc. Again please correct me if I am wrong that is just my impression.
Hi lala š (Nice to see you again) and Sharon, I think what part of the problem for me is that everyone has a different for what “negative” mean. For me it is not someone who dislikes or has opinion of things they dislike about the show. It is impossible for everyone to be happy or to love everything. I don’t mind personally mind opposing views. I might disagree with them, sometimes strongly but that is fine. For me the comments that bother are the highly rude or mean comments, the comments that demean the characters, the actors, the writers or the showrunners. Because I feel they are doing their best to give us a good show. That doesn’t mean that they are above criticism. The tone of a comment can be off-putting while the message can be legitimate. If people keep the sarcasm, snideness and snarkiness out of it I never mind hearing their side of things. But it is all so subjective, we all have our idea of what is negative. That is just mine. Alice may have another. It is her sandbox and she will set the tone she feels is appropriate. Personally I don’t think having an opposing view is negative. The reviewer’s are all not going to like everything themselves, there will be opposing views on almost everything but if we try and keep anger out of it and state our opinions in a civil manner I don’t think people will have a huge problem with it.. Again JMO and Alice may see things differently. :-*
Hi lala š (Nice to see you again) and Sharon, I think what part of the problem for me is that everyone has a different for what “negative” mean. For me it is not someone who dislikes or has opinion of things they dislike about the show. It is impossible for everyone to be happy or to love everything. I don’t mind personally mind opposing views. I might disagree with them, sometimes strongly but that is fine. For me the comments that bother are the highly rude or mean comments, the comments that demean the characters, the actors, the writers or the showrunners. Because I feel they are doing their best to give us a good show. That doesn’t mean that they are above criticism. The tone of a comment can be off-putting while the message can be legitimate. If people keep the sarcasm, snideness and snarkiness out of it I never mind hearing their side of things. But it is all so subjective, we all have our idea of what is negative. That is just mine. Alice may have another. It is her sandbox and she will set the tone she feels is appropriate. Personally I don’t think having an opposing view is negative. The reviewer’s are all not going to like everything themselves, there will be opposing views on almost everything but if we try and keep anger out of it and state our opinions in a civil manner I don’t think people will have a huge problem with it.. Again JMO and Alice may see things differently. :-*
I wish I had logged in so I could have corrected the typos but you get the idea. š
I wish I had logged in so I could have corrected the typos but you get the idea. š
Hi Leah š
I think you summed it up pretty well when you said that everyone has his/her own opinion on what is “negative.” From your post, I would gather you find a critique of the writing or writers to be negative. I could be wrong but if that is how you feel, I would disagree. I think critiquing the writing is fair game for a discussion board, but that’s JMO. YMMV.
For instance, on another board, I gave a long rant about why I hated “Bad Boys” and thought it was a retconned piece of . . . . . . Anyway, I had a good discussion w/other posters about that episode and my problems w/it. No names were called. I didn’t feel insulted. They weren’t offended. No one left angry. It was just an interesting discussion where some agreed w/me and others disagreed. It was fine, but I was basically critiquing the writers/writing. I would likely never post that opinion on this site as I’m not sure how it would be received.
I don’t consider myself to be a rude or disrespectful person, but I am strong in my opinions. I am a lawyer so I tend to like debating or presenting my argument. That’s just me. I never thought I crossed any lines last year, but it was made clear that I had so that’s why I decided to start posting elsewhere. It’s not clear to me what is acceptable here other than positive opinions/thoughts about the show. As you said, Alice has her own view of “negative” that might not be my view. Would my BB rant have been appreciated here? Who knows? I assume it would have been considered a downer and would have been frowned upon.
If Alice and most of the regulars here want to keep things on the positive side, that’s cool. This is Alice’s site, and she can set it up how she chooses. For me, posting about the show is fun. I don’t want to stress over every word to make sure it’s not seen as too negative or brings the board down. I just want to freely chat about the show. As I said, I don’t believe I have ever been rude or disrespectful but I am strong in my opinion, and maybe that comes off more negative than I think. Who knows?
Anyway, I just wanted to respond to you, Leah! I hope your holidays were nice! And I hope you have fun posting this year š
Hi Leah š
I think you summed it up pretty well when you said that everyone has his/her own opinion on what is “negative.” From your post, I would gather you find a critique of the writing or writers to be negative. I could be wrong but if that is how you feel, I would disagree. I think critiquing the writing is fair game for a discussion board, but that’s JMO. YMMV.
For instance, on another board, I gave a long rant about why I hated “Bad Boys” and thought it was a retconned piece of . . . . . . Anyway, I had a good discussion w/other posters about that episode and my problems w/it. No names were called. I didn’t feel insulted. They weren’t offended. No one left angry. It was just an interesting discussion where some agreed w/me and others disagreed. It was fine, but I was basically critiquing the writers/writing. I would likely never post that opinion on this site as I’m not sure how it would be received.
I don’t consider myself to be a rude or disrespectful person, but I am strong in my opinions. I am a lawyer so I tend to like debating or presenting my argument. That’s just me. I never thought I crossed any lines last year, but it was made clear that I had so that’s why I decided to start posting elsewhere. It’s not clear to me what is acceptable here other than positive opinions/thoughts about the show. As you said, Alice has her own view of “negative” that might not be my view. Would my BB rant have been appreciated here? Who knows? I assume it would have been considered a downer and would have been frowned upon.
If Alice and most of the regulars here want to keep things on the positive side, that’s cool. This is Alice’s site, and she can set it up how she chooses. For me, posting about the show is fun. I don’t want to stress over every word to make sure it’s not seen as too negative or brings the board down. I just want to freely chat about the show. As I said, I don’t believe I have ever been rude or disrespectful but I am strong in my opinion, and maybe that comes off more negative than I think. Who knows?
Anyway, I just wanted to respond to you, Leah! I hope your holidays were nice! And I hope you have fun posting this year š
Lala, No that is emphatically not what I was saying at all. I was trying to say I appreciate all comments, “Negative” to me are rude or demeaning comments. I do NOT think critiques of any aspect of the show is out of bounds. To the contrary. I guess we could also debate what “rude or demeaning” means š There are polite and civil ways to present any point of view. You presented your views strongly and passionately. To me that is not the same thing. Again this is my own personal opinion.Take care lala. š
Lala, No that is emphatically not what I was saying at all. I was trying to say I appreciate all comments, “Negative” to me are rude or demeaning comments. I do NOT think critiques of any aspect of the show is out of bounds. To the contrary. I guess we could also debate what “rude or demeaning” means š There are polite and civil ways to present any point of view. You presented your views strongly and passionately. To me that is not the same thing. Again this is my own personal opinion.Take care lala. š
@ lala2 long time no see.How are you?Hope you had a happy holiday.Where else do you comment.I always loved your insights.I would like to read them .Always a good read.
Does anyone know why percysowner is not commenting?
@ lala2 long time no see.How are you?Hope you had a happy holiday.Where else do you comment.I always loved your insights.I would like to read them .Always a good read.
Does anyone know why percysowner is not commenting?
I’m not commenting because I’m not feeling positive right now and I don’t want to harsh anyone’s squee. I am following the discussions and will contribute when I have things that are calm and I don’t think will upset people.
I’m not commenting because I’m not feeling positive right now and I don’t want to harsh anyone’s squee. I am following the discussions and will contribute when I have things that are calm and I don’t think will upset people.
I do understand where you’re coming from lala2 and leah d, but I guess I didn’t get the same message you did from the article. I got the impression that Alice wants to have fun on this site again. She wants to enjoy watching an episode rather than bracing herself for all the things that viewers will find to take personally and come here to rain down on everyone else’s parade. That doesn’t mean that she wouldn’t allow criticism of the show, but that we should all be having fun when doing it
I don’t think that Alice is saying that you can’t criticize a particular writer, but maybe we don’t need to be name calling or bullying the writers into writing our own personal version of the show.
For instance, maybe instead of posting “that stupid fuckhead (insert writer’s name here) always screws things up and that was the worst thing I have ever had to endure” you might post “I don’t know why (insert writer’s name here) seems to always rub me the wrong way, I just don’t get what he/she was trying to do with…”. Yes both basically say the same thing, but the first one is a bit more shouty and will probably alienate more folks than the second. Or possibly you could make up a funny joke to illustrate your displeasure so that the rest of us can have a laugh when reading your posts–I personally like the funny ; )
See for me it’s not that criticism won’t be allowed, but the tone in which you choose to voice the criticism may not be.
Sorry Alice, I’m probably way overstepping here, so please correct me if I am wrong. And I will not take it personally if you feel the need to unpublish this comment.
I do understand where you’re coming from lala2 and leah d, but I guess I didn’t get the same message you did from the article. I got the impression that Alice wants to have fun on this site again. She wants to enjoy watching an episode rather than bracing herself for all the things that viewers will find to take personally and come here to rain down on everyone else’s parade. That doesn’t mean that she wouldn’t allow criticism of the show, but that we should all be having fun when doing it
I don’t think that Alice is saying that you can’t criticize a particular writer, but maybe we don’t need to be name calling or bullying the writers into writing our own personal version of the show.
For instance, maybe instead of posting “that stupid fuckhead (insert writer’s name here) always screws things up and that was the worst thing I have ever had to endure” you might post “I don’t know why (insert writer’s name here) seems to always rub me the wrong way, I just don’t get what he/she was trying to do with…”. Yes both basically say the same thing, but the first one is a bit more shouty and will probably alienate more folks than the second. Or possibly you could make up a funny joke to illustrate your displeasure so that the rest of us can have a laugh when reading your posts–I personally like the funny ; )
See for me it’s not that criticism won’t be allowed, but the tone in which you choose to voice the criticism may not be.
Sorry Alice, I’m probably way overstepping here, so please correct me if I am wrong. And I will not take it personally if you feel the need to unpublish this comment.
ME is wright. It is the tone of a comment.
I am one of the longest visitors to this site. And I read all of Alice’s articles. Trust me (and if you don’t check it yourself in the archives) Alice is the one writter on this site that wrote most critisism about our show.
She most definatly has no problem with critizising the show. But it is the way how people react and get way to personal. And following a writer onto twitter just to personally attack them is most definatly the wrong thing to do.
ME is wright. It is the tone of a comment.
I am one of the longest visitors to this site. And I read all of Alice’s articles. Trust me (and if you don’t check it yourself in the archives) Alice is the one writter on this site that wrote most critisism about our show.
She most definatly has no problem with critizising the show. But it is the way how people react and get way to personal. And following a writer onto twitter just to personally attack them is most definatly the wrong thing to do.
# 81- Hi ME- If you look at my comments again you will see that I am saying the EXACT same thing you are. I don’t know how many different ways I can say it. It is the tone not the content that is the problem. I must really suck at getting my point across lately. Throwing in the towel. š
# 81- Hi ME- If you look at my comments again you will see that I am saying the EXACT same thing you are. I don’t know how many different ways I can say it. It is the tone not the content that is the problem. I must really suck at getting my point across lately. Throwing in the towel. š
Sorry leah d, I misunderstood what you were saying in the first post and I didn’t see your last comment. I must have been typing mine when you posted, then it threw me to another page so I didn’t see the one where you clarified. Sorry, didn’t mean to single you out.
Sorry leah d, I misunderstood what you were saying in the first post and I didn’t see your last comment. I must have been typing mine when you posted, then it threw me to another page so I didn’t see the one where you clarified. Sorry, didn’t mean to single you out.
Leah, I apologize for misunderstanding you. You mentioned that you do not want to read demeaning comments about the writers, and I know some consider any critique demeaning to the writers because of the effort they put in writing the show.
I hear what you’re saying, and I hope you get what you want from the board. Like Percy, I’m not a satisfied or happy viewer right now so it’s probably best that I continue to lurk. It was good chatting with you again š
Leah, I apologize for misunderstanding you. You mentioned that you do not want to read demeaning comments about the writers, and I know some consider any critique demeaning to the writers because of the effort they put in writing the show.
I hear what you’re saying, and I hope you get what you want from the board. Like Percy, I’m not a satisfied or happy viewer right now so it’s probably best that I continue to lurk. It was good chatting with you again š
Hey AnonymousN!!! It’s good to hear from you. I’ve always enjoyed reading your thoughts as well š My holidays were great, and I hope yours were the same.
Nowadays, I mostly post on Spoilertv.com, the Supernatural board, and on Supernatural.tv. On Supernatural.tv, there are articles on the main forum, and I’m “Lisa1.” Everywhere else, I’m “lala2.”
I apologize if this was inappropriate, but I don’t believe there is a way to PM anyone here. I’m off now anyway!
Hey AnonymousN!!! It’s good to hear from you. I’ve always enjoyed reading your thoughts as well š My holidays were great, and I hope yours were the same.
Nowadays, I mostly post on Spoilertv.com, the Supernatural board, and on Supernatural.tv. On Supernatural.tv, there are articles on the main forum, and I’m “Lisa1.” Everywhere else, I’m “lala2.”
I apologize if this was inappropriate, but I don’t believe there is a way to PM anyone here. I’m off now anyway!
I’d started a… dissertation (well, the initial couple of paragraphs) but it failed to succinctly address the first point that had popped into my head. Lala2’s post makes a better jumping off point.
[i][b]Innocent until proven guilty.[/b][/i] None of us know what, if any, real changes will arise from the latest declarations that various stresses (notably, here [i]and elsewhere[/i]) have pushed WFB admins/writers to-and-beyond some sort of breaking point. Why run or skulk away under the assumption that a new iron fist of censorship is in the offing and your posts will be unwelcome? You can’t know until you know.
And I suspect this tendency to project negativity over stuff one thinks [i][b]might[/b][/i] happen is one component of what the admins are reacting to. I’ve seen fans get upset over what showrunners say in interviews. Seriously? Judge the episodes on their own merit… after you’ve seen them. How do you know the showrunners don’t want to misdirect you for some reason? How do you know they are good at clearly expressing themselves in interviews? How do you know the snippets they feel free to divulge, when taken out of context, will give you a sufficiently rich and detailed vision of what’s coming? I long ago made the decision to mostly skip showrunner interviews. Admittedly, in large part it’s because I’m concerned that they’ll spoil me more than I want to be spoiled. But, in part, I don’t want to be either sensitized or desensitized to upcoming plot developments as a result of what they have to say.
Revising the dissertation paragraphs a bit, IMO a major problem with some segments of the SPN fandom is that they are out of balance with respect to the emphases they place on the show’s past, present and future. Some fans simply will not let go of past disappointments and it often has them obsessing about the oh-so-likely prospect of future disappointments. Critiques, however biting, are easier for people to weather as long as they are accompanied by the sense that the assessment pertains to the here-and-now rather than a seemingly permanent condition.
If you think of the SPN fandom as a species and each “fan community” as one distinct beast {wink}, then each individual member is a “vital organ”. But in that analogy, each chronically negative community member is like a festering wound that never heals. When an unhealing wound is on an extremity, for instance a diabetic lesion, you treat it if you can and cauterize it if gentler treatment is not an option. When all else fails the doctor may decide to amputate. Sure, chronic wounds are not, themselves, life-threatening… but they can flare up into acute systemic problems. And even if that doesn’t happen they are a persistent drain on resources, putting the animal at risk of being felled by other threats that prove insurmountable in aggregate. Like… server catastrophes, and twitter trolls, and…
Anyone who is afraid their posts will be unwelcome from here on out might do well to muse a bit on why they harbor that concern. My guess is, if you tend to “live in the moment” with the show, whether you praise it, curse it, or do some of each, you have nothing to worry about. That, of course, comes with the caveat that you don’t lash out in a way that suggests you feel that either you or the fictional characters are being “victimized” by the intentions or ineptitude of the real, live people who deliver the show to our TV sets and computers. When all is said and done, it *is* just a TV show. A pretty damned awesome TV show… but make-believe nonetheless. Any [i][b]real [/b][/i]victims are ones we members of the fandom manage to create all on our own.
Sharon, forgive me if I may have misspoke. I enjoy reading opinions about the show. I just dont think we should argue with folks who’s opinions are hurtful.
ME, thanks for clarifying what I was attempting to say.
[i]”Don’t Take Anything Personally. Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.” – Miguel Angel Ruiz[/i]
Sharon, forgive me if I may have misspoke. I enjoy reading opinions about the show. I just dont think we should argue with folks who’s opinions are hurtful.
ME, thanks for clarifying what I was attempting to say.
[i]”Don’t Take Anything Personally. Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.” – Miguel Angel Ruiz[/i]
Well said racestaffer. I agree state your opinion and you will find out if you have gone to far or not. I have a feeling there will a lot of leeway in the beginning until everyone gets into the spirit of what Alice is trying to accomplish. This is supposed to be fun. It is a fun show. It is fun to be a fan (whether you love or hate the show right now). Maybe just try to have more fun with your comments negative or positive. If you are truly unhappy post on the bitterness threads. š
Well said racestaffer. I agree state your opinion and you will find out if you have gone to far or not. I have a feeling there will a lot of leeway in the beginning until everyone gets into the spirit of what Alice is trying to accomplish. This is supposed to be fun. It is a fun show. It is fun to be a fan (whether you love or hate the show right now). Maybe just try to have more fun with your comments negative or positive. If you are truly unhappy post on the bitterness threads. š
Where are the bitterness threads exactly? I can’t find them.
Where are the bitterness threads exactly? I can’t find them.
@90 – I used the search feature in the “Articles” section and of the first several hits I only found 2 “bitterness threads”. One for Season 9 can be found at this [url]www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/article-archives/lets-discuss/17985-let-s-discuss-the-supernatural-s9-bitterness-thread[/url] link.
The other was for Season 8. Perhaps they only appear once a season. I’m not sure. I’m a bit of a mayfly here.
Thanks!
Thanks!
@#87[quote]And I suspect this tendency to project negativity over stuff one thinks might happen is one component of what the admins are reacting to.[/quote]But there are threads which do encourage speculations.Speculations are based on what you think might happen and what has happened already gives a direction to speculate.For some it is positive and some negative depending on the viewpoint.[quote]”live in the moment” with the show, [/quote]Sorry .I do not understand.
Personally I am Okay with whatever Alice has proposed.
@#87[quote]And I suspect this tendency to project negativity over stuff one thinks might happen is one component of what the admins are reacting to.[/quote]But there are threads which do encourage speculations.Speculations are based on what you think might happen and what has happened already gives a direction to speculate.For some it is positive and some negative depending on the viewpoint.[quote]”live in the moment” with the show, [/quote]Sorry .I do not understand.
Personally I am Okay with whatever Alice has proposed.
Hi Alice,
I just wanted to say that I am in full support of your new agenda here. I absolutely loved your “Jensen” article; I thought it was well thought out, well written, touching and a fitting tribute to such a wonderful actor who has been 1/2 (or 1/3 depending on your POV!) of our favorite show. I am a steadfast Sam-Girlā¦ have been since the first time I saw the show. To say that I have been defensive about his character from time to time, is perhaps an understatement, so I can understand begin somewhat defensive of those we root for most on this show. But, I was utterly shocked to see the direction that the comments section of your wonderful Jensen article went in. Because of that, I did not make a comment on that article, and I apologize for that, but I couldn’t face entering the fray.
I realize that I am one of those posters who have maybe been stuck on various plot points in the show and have commented again and again, airing my displeasure at single events, unable to let things go. I will try and not do that in the future; I don’t feel that the basic criticism is necessarily the problem, maybe just the repetitiveness of it. I have no trouble with differing views, but absolutely can see where repetitive complaints about a single plot point (*cough* “not looking” *cough* š ) can get tedious, as well as assertions that the show, the characters etc have been ruined for ever, or that any one writer is out to get our favorite character, or wishes that one of the main characters needs to die in order to be happy, pitting Sam against Dean or even worse, J against J, or sending hate filled tweets to the writing staff (the blast against Robbie Thompson and that absurd attack on Guy Norman Bee come to mind) or attacking another poster simply because you disagree with their opinion is simply not OK IMHO. This is the only place that I post comments, and I’d rather temper my tendency to gripe repeatedly about certain things than not have this forum at all!
Hi Alice,
I just wanted to say that I am in full support of your new agenda here. I absolutely loved your “Jensen” article; I thought it was well thought out, well written, touching and a fitting tribute to such a wonderful actor who has been 1/2 (or 1/3 depending on your POV!) of our favorite show. I am a steadfast Sam-Girlā¦ have been since the first time I saw the show. To say that I have been defensive about his character from time to time, is perhaps an understatement, so I can understand begin somewhat defensive of those we root for most on this show. But, I was utterly shocked to see the direction that the comments section of your wonderful Jensen article went in. Because of that, I did not make a comment on that article, and I apologize for that, but I couldn’t face entering the fray.
I realize that I am one of those posters who have maybe been stuck on various plot points in the show and have commented again and again, airing my displeasure at single events, unable to let things go. I will try and not do that in the future; I don’t feel that the basic criticism is necessarily the problem, maybe just the repetitiveness of it. I have no trouble with differing views, but absolutely can see where repetitive complaints about a single plot point (*cough* “not looking” *cough* š ) can get tedious, as well as assertions that the show, the characters etc have been ruined for ever, or that any one writer is out to get our favorite character, or wishes that one of the main characters needs to die in order to be happy, pitting Sam against Dean or even worse, J against J, or sending hate filled tweets to the writing staff (the blast against Robbie Thompson and that absurd attack on Guy Norman Bee come to mind) or attacking another poster simply because you disagree with their opinion is simply not OK IMHO. This is the only place that I post comments, and I’d rather temper my tendency to gripe repeatedly about certain things than not have this forum at all!
Hi E, just wanted to say I am glad to see you and what a refreshing comment that was! I agree with you in that repetitiveness (and IMO general tone) are the main issues. Not the content. I know I welcome reading all civil opinions pro or con about the show. Disagreements will happen but hopefully we can all do that like adults. š
Hi E, just wanted to say I am glad to see you and what a refreshing comment that was! I agree with you in that repetitiveness (and IMO general tone) are the main issues. Not the content. I know I welcome reading all civil opinions pro or con about the show. Disagreements will happen but hopefully we can all do that like adults. š
Yay! I’m very much looking forward to going back to basics, as you say! I, myself, came really, really close to just reading the articles and not even looking at the comments because some of the commenters were so negative or one-sided it was taking the joy (ok, sometimes the show is less joyfull and more “I need a box of tissues and a drink”) out of it for me. I was just passing over those peoples comments but it will be nice to calm things down a bit! Bravo!
Yay! I’m very much looking forward to going back to basics, as you say! I, myself, came really, really close to just reading the articles and not even looking at the comments because some of the commenters were so negative or one-sided it was taking the joy (ok, sometimes the show is less joyfull and more “I need a box of tissues and a drink”) out of it for me. I was just passing over those peoples comments but it will be nice to calm things down a bit! Bravo!
[quote name=”lala2″]Hey AnonymousN!!! It’s good to hear from you. I’ve always enjoyed reading your thoughts as well š My holidays were great, and I hope yours were the same.
Nowadays, I mostly post on Spoilertv.com, the Supernatural board, and on Supernatural.tv. On Supernatural.tv, there are articles on the main forum, and I’m “Lisa1.” Everywhere else, I’m “lala2.”
I apologize if this was inappropriate, but I don’t believe there is a way to PM anyone here. I’m off now anyway![/quote]
We have a single day holiday for Christmas.I am from India.Holidays are stretched too thin here.We have many festivals. š
[quote]Hey AnonymousN!!! It’s good to hear from you. I’ve always enjoyed reading your thoughts as well š My holidays were great, and I hope yours were the same.
Nowadays, I mostly post on Spoilertv.com, the Supernatural board, and on Supernatural.tv. On Supernatural.tv, there are articles on the main forum, and I’m “Lisa1.” Everywhere else, I’m “lala2.”
I apologize if this was inappropriate, but I don’t believe there is a way to PM anyone here. I’m off now anyway![/quote]
We have a single day holiday for Christmas.I am from India.Holidays are stretched too thin here.We have many festivals. š
Alice, it seems I’m a little late for commenting on this since there’s already 5 pages of prior comments. But for what it’s worth, I’ll say this: When I found WFB, I was elated to finally find a place where SPN fandom was smart, civil, happy, and positive all around. Though I was a lurker most of the time, I do appreciate you and the staff for all the intelligent and thoughtful articles posted here. And yes, for awhile my visits were less and less because I just didn’t have the energy for all the negativity that seeped in. I am glad that you have decided to “take back WFB” – as you say – you will certainly see me here more often. Regardless, I want to thank you for creating this place, and then to thank you again for taking it back. I’m sure I’m not the only one who will find solace here. You are appreciated.
Alice, it seems I’m a little late for commenting on this since there’s already 5 pages of prior comments. But for what it’s worth, I’ll say this: When I found WFB, I was elated to finally find a place where SPN fandom was smart, civil, happy, and positive all around. Though I was a lurker most of the time, I do appreciate you and the staff for all the intelligent and thoughtful articles posted here. And yes, for awhile my visits were less and less because I just didn’t have the energy for all the negativity that seeped in. I am glad that you have decided to “take back WFB” – as you say – you will certainly see me here more often. Regardless, I want to thank you for creating this place, and then to thank you again for taking it back. I’m sure I’m not the only one who will find solace here. You are appreciated.
[quote name=”leah d”]Hi E, just wanted to say I am glad to see you and what a refreshing comment that was! I agree with you in that repetitiveness (and IMO general tone) are the main issues. Not the content. I know I welcome reading all civil opinions pro or con about the show. Disagreements will happen but hopefully we can all do that like adults. :-)[/quote]
Hi leah dā¦ Happy New Year! I wish you a great year filled with all the ice cold Dr. Peppers you can drink ! š”
[quote]Hi E, just wanted to say I am glad to see you and what a refreshing comment that was! I agree with you in that repetitiveness (and IMO general tone) are the main issues. Not the content. I know I welcome reading all civil opinions pro or con about the show. Disagreements will happen but hopefully we can all do that like adults. :-)[/quote]
Hi leah dā¦ Happy New Year! I wish you a great year filled with all the ice cold Dr. Peppers you can drink ! š”
š I like it!! Thanks E. Happy New Year to you too! I miss the —-> š” That’s my “skanky cheese” face.
š I like it!! Thanks E. Happy New Year to you too! I miss the —-> š” That’s my “skanky cheese” face.
PS to Leah d – Happy New Year! [i]Dr. Pepper Ten[/i] was my drink of choice! Try it. It is delicious!
I’m sorry for going off-topic. But clearly this was crucial information. š
PS to Leah d – Happy New Year! [i]Dr. Pepper Ten[/i] was my drink of choice! Try it. It is delicious!
I’m sorry for going off-topic. But clearly this was crucial information. š
Thank you so much for this statement, Alice! I’m a newer fan, and this is really the first time I’ve participated actively in an online fandom. While I am often lurking around some sites and I do post on the imdb board, this is the place I come to when I want to just enjoy feeling like a part of this Family. I’ve loved reading the meta you guys do, and all of the varied reviews from your writers, as well as the fact that you don’t take the show so seriously that you don’t have room for your great “motivational” posters and articles about Jared’s hair.
I will confess that I don’t often post here–one of the times I did express my opinion, another fan ripped right into me, and that made me a bit shy of trying again. I know that this was not the fault of the site, and probably not the norm, but it was one of my first negative experiences with online fandom. I can’t swear that I’ll post more now–but this experience makes your piece that much more valuable to me.
So welcome back to the happy place! I’m really excited to see the site back on my computer screen, and I will be here again!
Thank you so much for this statement, Alice! I’m a newer fan, and this is really the first time I’ve participated actively in an online fandom. While I am often lurking around some sites and I do post on the imdb board, this is the place I come to when I want to just enjoy feeling like a part of this Family. I’ve loved reading the meta you guys do, and all of the varied reviews from your writers, as well as the fact that you don’t take the show so seriously that you don’t have room for your great “motivational” posters and articles about Jared’s hair.
I will confess that I don’t often post here–one of the times I did express my opinion, another fan ripped right into me, and that made me a bit shy of trying again. I know that this was not the fault of the site, and probably not the norm, but it was one of my first negative experiences with online fandom. I can’t swear that I’ll post more now–but this experience makes your piece that much more valuable to me.
So welcome back to the happy place! I’m really excited to see the site back on my computer screen, and I will be here again!
BRR549 – Welcome newer fan! It’s amazing how many newer fans we’re running into for Supernatural. TNT has opened up a whole new world.
I keep a history of all comments. I went back and looked at your old comment and unfortunately, that happened before I had to remove our tree commenting structure (that was in the thick of our server issues) so I couldn’t tell which comments were in direct reply to your comment, but I can suspect. So sorry I missed this at the time, because we strive to make new posters feel welcome. I’m so sorry this became one of your first negative experiences. I’m also grateful you’re giving us another chance.
I just posted a Short Attention Span Theater. It’s one of those light hearted pieces that we used to do all the time but haven’t done one in a while. It reminds fans in a fun way not to take things so seriously. Along with our Motivational Posters, I hope we’ll get to do more of those light pieces. It’s a lot of who we are.
Thanks for your comment and I hope to see more in the future.
BRR549 – Welcome newer fan! It’s amazing how many newer fans we’re running into for Supernatural. TNT has opened up a whole new world.
I keep a history of all comments. I went back and looked at your old comment and unfortunately, that happened before I had to remove our tree commenting structure (that was in the thick of our server issues) so I couldn’t tell which comments were in direct reply to your comment, but I can suspect. So sorry I missed this at the time, because we strive to make new posters feel welcome. I’m so sorry this became one of your first negative experiences. I’m also grateful you’re giving us another chance.
I just posted a Short Attention Span Theater. It’s one of those light hearted pieces that we used to do all the time but haven’t done one in a while. It reminds fans in a fun way not to take things so seriously. Along with our Motivational Posters, I hope we’ll get to do more of those light pieces. It’s a lot of who we are.
Thanks for your comment and I hope to see more in the future.
Hello, Long time lurker here. I wanted to de-lurk and tell you how happy I am you are keeping the site going and focusing on a more positive path.
Alice, I wanted to let you know how very much I appreciate all of your efforts into keeping this site going, I know when you had the server issues you were close to giving it up, going by what I read here. I was so happy that you have kept it going, and I thank you for all your efforts, and hard work into making this a hopeful place for SPN fans, I have had to stop reading most other sites articles because of the nastiness, I am a older fan but a newer convert to the show, only finding it in 2010 and then buying all the seasons and catching up with the series. I only started with the online fandom in 2012 and am still getting used to that, I don’t understand why there is so much hate over the various aspects of the show, but to each their own. I love our little show that can and just want to enjoy what I see onscreen and don’t want to nitpick it to death.
I may not post a lot because there are so many wonderful writers here that can convey what they feel so much better than I can. I just wanted to say Thank You for keeping this site going.
Hello, Long time lurker here. I wanted to de-lurk and tell you how happy I am you are keeping the site going and focusing on a more positive path.
Alice, I wanted to let you know how very much I appreciate all of your efforts into keeping this site going, I know when you had the server issues you were close to giving it up, going by what I read here. I was so happy that you have kept it going, and I thank you for all your efforts, and hard work into making this a hopeful place for SPN fans, I have had to stop reading most other sites articles because of the nastiness, I am a older fan but a newer convert to the show, only finding it in 2010 and then buying all the seasons and catching up with the series. I only started with the online fandom in 2012 and am still getting used to that, I don’t understand why there is so much hate over the various aspects of the show, but to each their own. I love our little show that can and just want to enjoy what I see onscreen and don’t want to nitpick it to death.
I may not post a lot because there are so many wonderful writers here that can convey what they feel so much better than I can. I just wanted to say Thank You for keeping this site going.