Let’s Speculate: Supernatural 9.02, “Devil May Care”
Warning!: If you haven’t seen “Devil May Care,” you probably want to leave this page. Spoilers, ahoy!
I will be writing up the Let’s Speculate articles for the foreseeable future, so please let me know if you want more of something or less of something else. I’ll start with a brief recap and then some speculations.
I invite you to talk and discuss away…
Brief Recap: This episode was very strong. I’d say that the introduction of Crowley was still one of the best things the show ever did. Sheppard brings out stellar performances from those he shares scenes with. Osric’s Kevin breaks my heart because he knows his weaknesses but still overcomes them. He’s a wonderful character but I fear what this life is doing to him. And I think he fears it too. The scene between Kevin and Crowley felt real and authentic and that’s a testament to the actors as well as the script and direction. I do wonder at what point Kevin will break? At what point will Crowley’s struggle against humanity end?
I love the expanding universe of the show, with the hunters like Irv and Tracy, giving us an idea that there is a world beyond the Winchesters and they have connections. Although did we really need a Daisy Dukes hunter? I’ll let that go….for now. We often don’t see that, but these last few seasons they’ve done a good job in opening up the world a little more. Abbadon is an amazing character and smart. She is at war and the first thing she does? Goes to recruit at a military installation. Yes! A smart woman on the show (targeting in 3, 2, 1….). She is a worthy match for the Winchesters, so I’m very happy the show brought Alaina Huffman back.
Best parts of the episode were the confrontation between Dean and Abaddon (ship name: Abbadean) and Sam’s transformation into Ezekiel. Beautiful special effect, show. And great job, again, Guy Bee. The discussion at the end between Ezekiel and Dean is a nice foreshadowing to a deeper relationship between the two, which should be interesting especially now that Sam seems to be happy for the first time with his life.
It’s a thing I thought. I’m not married to any first reactions….but I have some theories to discuss…bear with me.
Theory #1: Foreshadowing a Vesseled Dean
I think the Lucifer reference and Abbadon’s note that Dean would make the perfect vessel mean something. Will there be a war on earth between Abaddon in Dean and Ezekiel in Sam? Kind of a bizarre battle that we never got in Kripke’s Supernatural? Just wondering.
Theory #2: Ezekiel is really Metatron
Submitted by our Ardeospina. She thinks Zeke is not who he says he is and is wondering if he may in fact be Metatron, to keep tabs on Castiel and the Winchesters.
Theory #3: Mama Tran Better Damn Well Be Alive
This theory speaks for itself. Show, bring her back. You need more lady parts.
Theory #4: Zeke is not fallen…..
My friend Patronhippie made a good point about Ezekiel’s wings. Why would he still have them? Hmmmm…..Is Zeke really fallen or was he already on Earth?
Theory #5: Demons are Loveless
I think the arc is toward demons being souls without love. I think the love reference with Ezekiel and Crowley’s flashbacks to his becoming human point to love being the essential human component. What that means? I don’t know. Just throwing it out there.
Theory #6: Zeke is fixing more than Sam’s body
That conversation at the end intrigued me. The parallel of Dean/Zeke and Dean/Sam makes me think that Zeke is fixing more than Sam’s body….and maybe a little bit of Dean too. I still have issues with the consent problem on this show, but I’ll let my feminist rant go for now.
Some thoughts for the week. Let me know what your theories are – what you liked about ep and what you didn’t like. But remember, be kind – it’s my first time ;).
Considering what they have planned for Metatron in the back half of the season, I highly doubt he’s actually Ezekiel. Plus the whole damaged wings shadow.
As for the wings, they are clearly very damaged and look fairly useless. So I think some angels had their wings completely burned off, and some like Ezekiel are left with these vestigial mangled wings. That serve as a sad reminder of what these powerful beings once were.
As for Linda, I’ve been saying she’s been laying low with Garth after Crowley sent demons to get her, thus explaining Garth’s MIA status in season 8. I believe Carver said there is a small chance that she may come back, because he loves the character and is a fan of Lauren Tom.
I’ve got a lot of thinking to do! Glad to see you doing these, Linda!
I also noticed Zeke’s wings. I asked questions about when and how he was hurt in my review of 9.01: wouldn’t it be a kick if he was hurt BEFORE the Fall, perhaps opposing Naomi? If he can heal his wings and recover his ability to will himself around, he could have an edge over the other exiled angels …
Love the idea of love being a human key, and perhaps the connections to good angels as well. Also love the idea of Mama Tran being alive out there. Yes to Show needing more lady parts!
Almost time to go watch again and eavesdrop on live tweets by Mark and Osric … who needs sleep?
Loved the episode! Looking forward to watching it again!
Theory #1 intrigues me. I’ve been wondering if Zeke will want Dean for a vessel, if and when Sam finds out and evicts him.
theory#2 – Uh, why would Metatron even care where Cas and the Winchesters are? He took Cas’ grace and he barely knows who the boys are.
#3- total agreement.
#4 – Or maybe Zeke is able to start to regrow his wings (part of his healing) because he has access to the awesome power source that is the soul of Sam Winchester. Maybe that’s’ why he wanted in Sam to begin with.
#5 – sound right, not sure what to make with this.
#6 – Interesting. I must admit, as thrilled as I was to hear Sam talk about how happy he was, I wondered if Zeke wasn’t “helping” Sam with some angelic mood enhancer.
I wish I had time to really think this out and discuss (but I haven’t even read much from the premiere!) and need to get to bed. So I’ll just highlight and hope I get time later in the week to read and discuss.
I LOVED that Dean called Kevin family. That was a big bitch of mine from last year. I thought it was out of character for him to be so harsh with a kid who had done anything wrong and was actually helping them. This seem much more in character to me.
I hope Mama Tran is alive too.
Loved that Abaddon was back thought she makes a fantastic bad guy. Very menacing. But what’s with leaving her prisoners unguarded?
Your Ezekiel theories are interesting. I have another was if he is playing the hero until he gets strong enough that Sam can’t boot him out. I wondered if maybe if they are going to have Dean volunteer to be his vessel to save Sam since he tricked him into saying yes.
I think we’re SUPPOSED to have issues with Sam’s non-consent. I love that the had Dean to something so wrong, even though he did to save Sam. He knew Sam was ready to let go. He just wasn’t ready to let him go. LOVED THAT!
That’s a great theory on Demons too. I could see that being the case.
Now I HAVE to go to bed. Sigh.
Given what the show has planned for Metatron in the back half of the season, I highly doubt he’s “Ezekiel.” Plus there was the whole damaged wings shadow.
As for Ezekiel’s wings, I’m thinking some angels had their wings completely burned off, while others like Ezekiel were just horribly damaged and left useless. Leaving these vestigial limbs as a sad reminder of what these powerful beings once were.
I believe that Linda is laying low with Garth after Crowley sent demons after her, thus explaining Garth’s MIA status in season 8. Carver has said he’ a fan of the character and Lauren Tom, so she just may show up again.
[quote]
I think we’re SUPPOSED to have issues with Sam’s non-consent. I love that the had Dean to something so wrong, even though he did to save Sam. He knew Sam was ready to let go. He just wasn’t ready to let him go. LOVED THAT! [/quote]
Yeah, I believe Carver, Singer, and even Jared said that people might not like what Dean does to save Same, and that there would be consequences. Which is the theme of the season.
Thanks so much for getting this up so quickly. Loved this episode, and am thrilled to share the experience with you and the gang. You set up a great forum with interesting theories for us.
First, gotta say – I had the same Daisy Duke thought as you! Too funny! And, I believe Dean is sincere in considering Kevin family – he has risked his life for that kid, and that is sincere. And he and Sam have looked after him, which does not take away from Kevin doing his job, just like Sam and Dean do theirs. Abbadon is such a great villain – she really has the feel of Lucifer, and that kind of villain has been missing for a while. I am thrilled she is back, scheming, and developing a blood feud and cat and mouse game with the brothers. I think it will make for great drama.
Theory 1 foreshadowing feels right to me too. I definitely think we are moving toward an epic battle setup for the 2 brothers like we saw in season 5 (not sure who the players will be yet, though) that the brothers will have to foil somehow.
Theory 2 – I do not trust Zeke either, but do not think he is Metatron.
Theory 3 – Sorry, don’t hate me, but it has been nice to not be annoyed by Linda. I like her when I do not have to see or hear her – absence really does make the heart grow fonder with her – she affects me like nails scraping a chalk board – so would not be devastated if she was dead or stayed gone. I respect that others like her though.
Theory 4 – intriguing.
Theory 5 – nothing like freaking out poor Dean by talking about love. LOL. Very interesting theory, though. The Crowley arc is going to be interesting.
I have always loved this show, but some seasons have made me feel like I was on a roller coaster ride – thrilled by the ride, hanging on for dear life and totally cool that I did not know where I was heading. I feel like that is exactly where I am heading this season – and could not be happier.
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Looky Here, Looky Here, Looky Here IT’S LINDA !!!!
The only time I can remember Dean being possessed is in the 1st season. SKIN I think was the title. Having Dean possessed is REALLY INTERESTING. Wow
When I heard the Sam I FEEL GOOD speech I said NOPE that’s not Sam. something smells funny. Glad I was not alone.
Why the hell is not Zeke gone any way? Sam is healed so he MUST be healed.
How was Dean supposed to have gotten the knife to kill all the demons? SAM HAD IT
If Sam went nuts because Dean killed his first Kiss, LOOK OUT when he finds out about Zeke.
I am glad I gave this One more go around. I just peeked and look what & who I find. Miss Linda 😛
Dean “It cant hurt” covering his male member–HILARIOUS 😮
Must rewatch NOW. Thanks for this great little mind teaser.
I thought the same thing re. Ezekiel’s wings being broken before the fall. (Or maybe the writers just forgot that their wings are meant to be gone/burnt off?) Could be a metaphorical thing, the wings being burnt just means they can’t fly but they’re not physically gone. OR, maybe Ezekiel wasn’t already on earth but was someplace else, say a Cage….. Would Metatron be able to clip Lucifer’s wings? The possible fight between an Ezekiel possessed Sam and an Abbadon possessed Dean might be the oreview before the main show (Michael v Lucifer; who’d be who??) (Though Abbadon did run like the clappers at the thought of an angel so how fair of a fight would it be. All Ezekiel would need to do would be to get all flashy eyed and game over.)
Abbadon is pretty cool. She showed us how easy it would be possess Dean (or Sam)l. One nick of that nail on the tattoo and she’s in. And she’s full of common sense ie picking vessels from the army, wearing a Kevlar vest. That’s what’s dangerous about her.
Is Ezekiel ‘fixing’ Sam’s mind as well? If so, that’s beyond dodgy ground. How does Ezekiel decide what part of Sam’s mind needs to be healed (and what is ‘healed’ when it comes to the mind; manipulated, erased?). Sam’s mind, his memories, his motivation etc drive who he is. What if his happy memories of Jessica also cause him pain? Would Ezekiel see fit to manipulate them in order to make them happier or will he erase it altogether? Jeez, Stepford Sam!
I find the (possible) idea of changing who Sam is to fit into whatever mould someone else (Ezekiel) has decided for him to be disturbing. Add to that, if him being present is what makes Sam happy for the first time ever, what happens when (if) Ezekiel has to leave? Would Sam go back to being unhappy? What kind of Sam would Dean prefer, an unhappy real one or a happy home for a hidden angel one?
Ditto with the relationship. If it’s healing now because of Ezekiel then when he’s gone will Dean question what Sam said while possessed (and vice versa) that led to the relationship being healed.
Demons are clever little hoors, so they are. And they’re not all that removed from people. Hell, Crowley said what he had to and used whatever leverage he had in order to get what he wanted. Who amongst us hasn’t done that? And what’s scary is that Crowley essentially spoke the truth through it all. If Kevin dies, Sam and Dean [i]will[/i] just get another prophet. Sorry Kevin, I know it’s harsh but dem’s de breaks.
I do really like Kevin though, (I think he’s in my top three of characters at the minute), but for some reason I’d very much like to see him go absolutely postal at some stage.
Dean gave Ezekiel a nickname, so I guess that mean’s he’s a good guy!
The fact that Tracy and Ike both knew about the Apocalypse, should that be a worry? Do more hunters know about it and if so, what are their thoughts? I mean, are they going to be like Tim & Reg with their ‘Kill, kill’ attitude or more like ‘Let he who is without sin cast the first stone’ Ike? (I liked Ike. I wish he hadn’t been stupid enough to walk out from under cover when there were three soldiers with assault rifles around.)
I don’t think Ezekiel is Metatron (though maybe he is because his words and emotions see to be very by the book. It’s bizarre, especially considering we’ve never seen an angel like that before. (Have we?) Castiel is about as close as you’d get (in terms of human emotion and/or empathy and saying the right thing etc) but he had to learn how to do that through years of human interaction. It wasn’t innate to him but it appears to be with Ezekiel.) Anyway, despite that, I don’t think he’s Metatron. I don’t know, maybe the idea of a short, curly haired angel with bad teeth and a bit of a paunch possessing Sam, no thanks.
Did Sam’s shot hit the scope of that rifle? If so, that was some pretty good shooting, Sam!
I’m sorry but I didn’t like the Dean/Kevin scene at the end. It’s not just the fact that the whole ‘You’re family’ has been way overused at this stage (is he trying to do an Angelina Jolie on it and adopt everyone??); It’s just that, to me, given they essentially treated Kevin like carp over the last year, it came off as being a tad manipulative.
I think Tracy is a bit of a non-entity for me at the moment. She comes in, ‘gets it wrong’ about one of the brothers before being set straight and is then sent to safety to appear when the action is over. I did cringe at her introduction, though. ‘Oh no, my car is broke. Come save me big burly strange man. Of course I’ll take a drive from you back into town and thank you by jumping into the back of your van with you.” (Me: Oh for fuck sake….)
Sam’s hands are scarily white. Like virgin lily white. That’s kinda disturbing.
“Sam’s not the only guy who thought he was doing right and watched it all turn to crap.” Who is Dean referring to here, Castiel, someone else or himself?
Thanks for this, Bookdal.
This episode was great! The Kevin/Crowley scenes had me screaming to Kevin to just leave and the speech from Dean to Kevin about how “you, me, Sam and Cas are all we have” had me in tears. Dean Winchester, horrible with words unless it matters got me like he always does, and Sam saying he’s more ready than he’s been in a long time … ugh!
I noticed the wings but, being used to seeing them, didn’t really think about it much but I do wonder if they were meant to show how broken they were or that he still has them at all. I’m starting to think Ezekiel might be for real, and that would be nice because I’ve liked Tehmon Penikett since he was on BSG so I’m hoping. I hope Cas was right and he was always a good soldier and will help all oF them throughout this. Not all the angels can be Zachariah, Raphael or Naomi, some of them had to be more like,Cas or Samadriel … it would just be really nice for them to have another angel on their side for once since Sam, Dean, Cas and Kevin could use the help, what will all of them being human and all. Sorry, just as much as I thought they’d go that way with Cas when I heard Misha was signed on for season 9 as a regular I thought they’d actually do that, it still feels odd. Good odd, but off nonetheless!
I agree, I doubt he’s Metatron … it hasn’t been long enough for him to get bored and he doesn’t know enough about Sam and Dean to mess with them. I’m sure at some point he will most definitely be back and probably causing trouble for the boys and Cas but this is what, maybe a week if that since he sent the angels falling? I doubt even that long …
[quote]I thought the same thing re. Ezekiel’s wings being broken before the fall. (Or maybe the writers just forgot that their wings are meant to be gone/burnt off?) Could be a metaphorical thing, the wings being burnt just means they can’t fly but they’re not physically gone.[/quote]
I don’t believe they forgot, I think that some angels just lost them completely and others are left with mangled and burned. The writers did say that the angels would have varying degrees of powers, so maybe how much of their wings remained on them has something to do with it.
[quote]I think Tracy is a bit of a non-entity for me at the moment. She comes in, ‘gets it wrong’ about one of the brothers before being set straight and is then sent to safety to appear when the action is over. I did cringe at her introduction, though. ‘Oh no, my car is broke. Come save me big burly strange man. Of course I’ll take a drive from you back into town and thank you by jumping into the back of your van with you.” (Me: Oh for fuck sake….) [/quote]
I don’t know, I think her anger at Sam is understandable. And really help to show that the shit they do reverberates and has consequences (the theme for the season!) for people outside of their little circle.
As for her intro, it did end with a decapitated vamp. So the whole damsel in distress was clearly a prat of her plan to catch that vamp.
[quote]I don’t know, I think her anger at Sam is understandable. And really help to show that the shit they do reverberates and has consequences (the theme for the season!) for people outside of their little circle.
As for her intro, it did end with a decapitated vamp. So the whole damsel in distress was clearly a prat of her plan to catch that vamp.[/quote]
I never said her anger wasn’t understandable, Mick. I do, however, think it is cliched. The same as her plot to play the damsel in distress. As soon as we saw the truck rocking, we knew that she was a hunter. For me, it’s cliched and overdone.
Thanks for the interesting theories. It will give me plenty to think about until next Tuesday.
I fear I may be turning into an angel apologist but I’m still rooting for Zeke as a good guy. I hope he’s a lower level angel who ended up with a fair amount of angel mojo. Maybe Sam is happier simply because he feels better than he has for years. You know that feeling as soon as you recover. You get so used to feeling bad that once you’re better, you feel on top of the world. Sam may have felt stronger when he was on demon blood but not necessarily happy.
Also, I like Abbadon as an enemy to both the Winchesters and Crowley. She is a wonderfully formidable adversary but she’s no Lucifer. I know it would be pointless to bring Lucifer back without Mark Pellegrino.
I really hope the series doesn’t end with an “epic” battle between the queen of hell and an angel. It’s kind of a let down after the idea of Michael vs Lucifer.
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#16 Mary 9930 Michael vs Lucifer is the only way THIS SHOW should end; if there is a battle to end the series at all. What have you heard Lady? 😮
Wow… Season 9 is off to a great start.
#1 Foreshadowing Dean as a vessel – I sure hope that’s not the case, though it was established last season that this would work when Mama Tran’s tattoo was burned off before Crowley possessed her. I’m thinking Dean is thinking the same thing and maybe he takes added measures to make sure he can’t be possessed; was going to say “they” but I guess Sam is already possessed. To me, Supernatural is told primarily from Dean’s POV and he anchors Sam and Dean in the natural world, so having him possessed long term doesn’t work. Just my opinion..
#2 and #4 – Until I see otherwise, I’m going to take it at face value that Zeke is a fallen angel and is one of the good guys. When Sam “Zeked out” against the three soldier demons (that was predictable but cool anyway) you could see his wings were badly damaged. Now that being said, it doesn’t mean that the favor he asks of Dean won’t create a great deal of conflict somewhere down the road.
#6 – Zeke fixing more than Sam’s body. I was kind of wondering the same thing during Sam and Dean’s conversation at the end of the episode; I sure hope that’s not the case; bad enough he’s wiping Sam’s memory; Sam doesn’t need any ProZ(eke)ac. IMO, I don’t think this is the case – it’s been a journey Sam has been on since the middle of S8, with the introduction of the men of letters, the trials and being purified (either symbolically or for real). He’s been slowly coming to terms with, and making peace with his place in the world. In 9.01 he even acknowledged to himself thru the version of Bobby in his coma state that he had done a lot of good; even Death gave him his props.
Abbaddon makes a great villain – very smart and ruthless. Really happy they found a way to continue using Alaina Huffman in this role. I did have a question about canon. In early seasons, wasn’t it established that stronger demons like Azaziel and Lilith weren’t affected by holy water? If Abbaddon is a Knight of Hell, hand picked by Lucifer, and very strong/pure/hard to kill, why would she be affected by holy water when Dean splashed her with it? Not saying it was an inconsistency but made me a little confused as to the whole demon hierarchy thing.
Thanks for this write-up, Bookdal! I loved this episode. This season’s really had a strong start, and I can’t wait to see more of everything!
I don’t think Zeke is Metatron, or Lucifer for that matter. And I must say that I really hope he’s a good guy. I liked how he came out to save the day, and his conversation with Dean (“I am [one of the good guys]. But I suppose that is what a bad guy would say”) raised my hopes that he really might be good. The wings looked cool, really more like skeleton wings, all burned and tattered. I guess some of the fallen angels have no wings at all, and some still have some charred residues. (Or maybe he’s already starting to heal in Sam’s body? That would be interesting as well…)
And Zeke might be really fixing more than Sam’s body – since he can see what’s in Sam’s head, he can tell Dean what Sam really thinks – and tell him things that Sam wouldn’t be able to tell Dean himself, because the brothers’ relationship is… complicated in that aspect (no chick flick moments!). I mean, that’s what he did this time, telling Dean that Sam understands that what Dean did in “Sacrifice” was out of love, because he was protecting Sam. So he might be really fixing Dean too, and even the brothers’ relationship a bit, by voicing things that wouldn’t be voiced otherwise. (On a slightly – or maybe not so much – different note: I read in the TorCon report on Fangasm’s blog that Jensen said the phrase “There ain’t no me if there ain’t no you” in the premiere as Ezekiel, but as Ezekiel voicing Dean’s thoughts and feelings, saying things that Dean wouldn’t be comfortable stating otherwise.)
Of course, the fact that Zeke can now constantly see Sam’s inner thoughts puts the highlight on the consent issues of the whole Zeke/Sam possession story, because in this case, Zeke is putting Sam’s thoughts and feelings into the open without Sam’s consent. I have a feeling this might be an issue this season (or i hope so? because that would surely result to some interesting human stories…). At least Robbie Thompson did confirm on twitter that the writers are aware of the consent issues in Sam/Zeke’s story (heh, I just realized that it was in response to your question, Bookdal! :)).
I really enjoyed the scene between Kevin and Crowley, and also between Kevin and Dean. And I also loved the differences between Zeke and Sam – Zeke as a powerful angel, and Sam, when he came round afterwards, kinda scared and disoriented and so very human. That was great acting by everyone!
[quote]I think Tracy is a bit of a non-entity for me at the moment. She comes in, ‘gets it wrong’ about one of the brothers before being set straight and is then sent to safety to appear when the action is over. I did cringe at her introduction, though. ‘Oh no, my car is broke. Come save me big burly strange man. Of course I’ll take a drive from you back into town and thank you by jumping into the back of your van with you.” (Me: Oh for fuck sake….)
Sam’s hands are scarily white. Like virgin lily white. That’s kinda disturbing.
“Sam’s not the only guy who thought he was doing right and watched it all turn to crap.” Who is Dean referring to here, Castiel, someone else or himself?
Thanks for this, Bookdal.[/quote]
Regarding Tracy, this might also be a bit of a cautionary tale for Dean with agreeing to have Sam possessed and having Zeke wipe his memory. Dean knows there are going to be serious consequences down the road, and that it could all turn to crap.
Hi bookdal!!
So, I’m not gonna speculate here right now because I’m gonna squee!!!
I have a lot of good feels about this episode. 😀
One thing that pops out at me is the Stark and Banner aliases. It fits!! So, Sam is Banner, the one with the “monster(Angel)” inside, the one with the power and Dean is Stark, the one with the smart mouth and witty banter and weapons and gadgets.
I give thumbs up to the writer!
I also aware that there’s a fandom out there for Stark/Banner shipper but I won’t go there.
Next, Oh, Abaddon and Dean’s scene gives me goosebumps! Damn it! Why is Dean look so hot being manhandled by a woman? That man! Sorry if I didn’t pay attention to the dialog that much. Oh, my heart!
And Sam!! I love Angel!Sammy!! I love him better than Demon!Sammy or Lucifer!Sammy. Jared really rock it! And considering that we may or may not get a Demon!Dean this time. Oh, I’ve been waiting for Jensen doing evil character in spn since DALDOM, hell, I’ve been waiting since SKIN!!.
Demon!Dean is waaaay much hotter than Demon!Sam but just as hot as Angel!Sam.
At this point, I won’t care for the plot if I have that. ‘Course I may change my mind later. 😀
I’m out!
On a side note, If the theme of this season is about consequences, then I am more worried about what Zeke will ask in favor later. The Demons, under Abaddon’s reign have more purpose than the fallen Angels. At least their goal is clear. Kill Crowley, take the reign as Queen of Hell and wreck havoc on earth.
The Angels are just confused and scared and angry and I’m afraid they will start to fight each other other than fighting together. Angels have a history of civil war in S6 while Hell has always more organized.
The writers said that there are lots of factions of Angels that will meet and clash on earth. Will there be another Angel’s civil war on earth? Angels are not above manipulating too and it will be humans that they manipulate. Demons will lend their dirty hands and take advantage of all of that.
There’ll be friends eating friends, foes, families right now.
I’ve been waiting for Jensen to get to tackle evil Dean for forever, and after all of Jared’s turns as “other” Sam, it HAS to happen! If they tease us on this and don’t deliver…
So that anticipation has me smiling and anticipating and is it Tuesday yet??? I am so excited to see more of Abaddon and don’t want to lose Alaina, so I’ll live with the sweet anticipation and enjoy her interactions and threats with Dean as they dance around each other.
Mark was again stellar as Crowley and I love the little hints that what he went thru in his near-human turning isn’t forgotten. It’s always the reversals and changes that keep me intrigued with the characters. All their experiences affect them and I love the continuity of that, that events have impact and leave imprints on their souls (or in Crowley’s case possible newly engaged soul!).
I hope Ezekiel stays good, but I wouldn’t mind if all isn’t as it seems. Since when is it ever? But him being devious and tricking Dean seems too easy and predictable. I hope they surprise us with something unexpected and different. That is what Supernatural excels at when they are at their best.
B.J.
#17 Nolanola,
Don’t worry, I’m not tuned into archangel radio. I haven’t heard anything about an epic end to the series.
But I can dream ….
[quote]Hi bookdal!!
Next, Oh, Abaddon and Dean’s scene gives me goosebumps! Damn it! Why is Dean look so hot being manhandled by a woman? That man! Sorry if I didn’t pay attention to the dialog that much. Oh, my heart! [/quote]
I’m sorry, I can’t help myself – I have to agree with this. I don’t know how many times I have to watch this scene to finally be able to pay attention in the dialogue. Maybe if I put a tarp on the tv screen.
First off, I want to agree with you about the whole Daisy Duke hunter situation. Give me more female hunters like Jo, Ellen and Gwen! We don’t need or want that kind of cheap trick to gain viewers. That being said, I do hava a few point of disagreement.
1) I do not believe Dean throws around the I need tph or you’re family line lightly. He has lost so much and he understands the value of the people he still has and he will fight to defend and protect them with his life. Kevin may have started out as an inconvenience, but he has proved his loyalty and if anything can make Dean let you in, its staying committed through the crappiest circumstances. Dean isn’t the kind of man who manipulates his friends.
2) I’m not on board with the idea that Ezekiel is Metatron.I saw a theory on pinterest that I can see allowing for more story arcs. I wish I could find it to give credit to the original author, but I couldn’t. Basically the theory is that Ezekiel is Lucifer. Metatron’s spell was powerful enough to cast all Angels to earth. ALL angels, Lucifer included. That plus the fact that we are going into 2014, the future year Dean went to where Sam was Lucifer.
3) mama Tran needs to stay gone. Like Dean said, if she is alive, she’s dead in all the ways that matter. There isn’t enough interest in her character for the boys to spend the time needed to get her back to herself as I’m sure Kevin would demand.
I also have a few speculations of my own. The writers/producers keep saying how Dean’s role will change this season and I thought to myself: “what is Dean’s role and how could it change in a way that would still flow with the overall story?” Answer the first part of that question first: what is Dean’s role? Of course, he’s the big brother protector to everyone, Jo, Cas, Kevin, Lisa, Ben, Benny (somewhat. Although we saw signs of the shift I’m thinking of with Benny), Garth and obviously Sam. He’s spent his entire life guarding himself and smiling just to get through. His purest, most simple existence happened in purgatory when he was surrounded by monsrers, constantly fighting for his life. He didn’t have the burden of stuffing his emotions down deep like he does on earth. He let his emotions come out through the basic human instinct of survival. When he got back from hell and then back from purgatory, he didn’t talk about it. He bottled it up. The reason Benny was so important to him, I think, is because Benny was the only person (I use that word lightly, since he wasn’t actually human) to see Dean’s heart, the only one with whom every moment had been completely open and honest. (Here’s the shift I see happening in Dean) Benny was Dean’s confidant. He was a safe place for Dean to be the real, flawed, broken man he was and not have to worry about how he would affect Benny. With Benny he was able to say and do things he couldn’t even talk to Cas about, because he has always felt responsible for Cas and teaching him to function in the human world. I think Ezekiel is going to become the trusted confidant Dean needs. It would be a very interesting twist to have Dean want Ezekiel to be “in-charge” of the vessel more than he wants Sam to be. I think Ezekiel will become the security Dean has craved. And because Ezekiel is in Sam’s brain, he will know how to function on earth. Dean won’t feel responsible for mentoring him. And because Ezekiel is an angel, Dean won’t feel the need to protect him. Because as we saw, he’s more than capable of taking care of himself.
As for the need for more female characters, I dont feel like we need to bring more in, I feel like we need to bring the good ones back. Amelia and Lisa would be tricky, but doable for a short term story arc, but Sherrif Mills and Charlie could easily fit into the story for extended periods of time. Also, maybe Kate the werewolf could join. up with the boys as a badass monster who is a badass monster hunter. I liked her and I would love to see the Winchester’s opened up to befriending a monster or two. They worked well worth Meg who started off as such a bitch, but won her way into so many hearts.
I am also intrigued with the idea that demons are deons because they don’t have or aren’t loved. Bringing in a character to love Crowley back to humanity would rock my world.
And Sam in all of this ? the person that was tricked into saying yes , does he actually have a say or we reaching a point where some believe Dean really has that say over Sam.
Ezekiel may or may not be a good angel for Sam’s sake I hope he is because if not Sam is the one royally screwed .But despite being a separate entity he is actually taking residence in a body that doesnt belong to him and a person who has no idea he is there .
I thought Jared showed again what a deft hand he is at playing two different roles and the part where Ezekiel stepped in and the wings were amazing but as some one who cares deeply for Sam and a advocate of his rights I would like to a sl that includes those aspects.
I thought both Jared and Jensen were very good and the support characters enhanced the episode.
just can’t buy the Ezekiel as Lucifer thing; that would mean Michael is free too, meaning Apocalypse II starts and I can’t see them going there.
i didn’t even consider the foreshadowing of dean as a vessel. as a matter of fact, abbadon explaining to dean how she’d rip of his tattoo and blow smoke up his ass…if anything, that bit of info tells me that dean and sam, though we wont’ see it, will probably get another smaller tattoo somewhere else…i’m actually convinced more than ever that dean as a vessel will never happen. but that doesn’t necessarily rule out others…cas/ crowley/kevin.
still think zeke is on up and up. don’t think zeke messed with sam’s mind at the end at all. as a matter of fact , i didn’t find it odd at all that sam would be in a happy place right now. he spent the last few months literally dying. he was emotionally and physcially battered by the trials. as far as sam knows, he’s survived those trials. why wouldnt he be grateful and happy with being alive and well again. it’s not uncommon for people who survive life threatening ordeals to look at life a little more differently. to see the brighter side of things and be thankful for being alive and having a home, friends, and loved ones around. i believe sam was sam and zeke had nothing to do with his feelings.
[quote]just can’t buy the Ezekiel as Lucifer thing; that would mean Michael is free too, meaning Armageddon II starts and I can’t see them going there.[/quote]
Since the show went with the story that Lucifer rebelled because he didn’t want the angels, his family, to bow to humans I can see that he and Michael might well put the Apocalypse on hold so that can work together to get their family back into heaven. Priorities change and 4 years or hundreds or thousands of years (depending on how time runs in the Cage) may have finally given them a reason to stop fighting and join forces to fight a greater enemy. I personally am not thrilled to see the End verse reenacted again, but I can envision a scenario where Michael and Lucifer could both be out and not trying to start the Apocalypse, yet.
[quote]And Sam in all of this ? the person that was tricked into saying yes , does he actually have a say or we reaching a point where some believe Dean really has that say over Sam.[/quote]
That is the real question for me, who has the right to say what is done with Sam’s body. I’m also wondering what this “I’m feeling happy for the first time in forever” means. Did ending the trials finally give Sam a sense of closure so he is happier? Is Ezekiel simply being in Sam making him feel that way? Is Ezekiel actively working to change Sam’s psyche and and change Sam himself? There is a lot going on that could use some explanation.
Sam has never been happy in his entire life. This is still a violation of Sam’s body and now apparently his mind. Even Dean seemed to know that when Sam expressed how happy he felt. Dean looked like he was getting deeper and deeper into this situation and he looks less and less happy about it.
When Sam told Dean that he’d never been so happy, I felt it was Sam talking, but that he was lying for Dean’s sake. That he actually regrets not finishing the trials and closing the gates of hell; that what Tracy said brought back a lot of guilt. When he was doing the trials, he was thrilled by the prospect of finally being cleansed, getting rid of the taint of evil he’s always hated in himself, becoming the pure knight who achieves the holy grail. Did anyone else get that impression?
Also, Sam was *supposed* to die after finishing the trials. Naomi said that is what God intended. I kind of think that he would have died as a human but been transformed into something else. There was all that glowing power coming out of his arms. Maybe what Death said about him not coming back puts the kabash to that idea, or maybe not. I need to review exactly what was said. Of course, this is just my possibly completely baseless notion.
Another excellent episode. This time last year I had almost given up watching, this year I absolutely cannot wait for more. 😆 I loved every minute of this episode.
Loved Abbadon, she is going to be a fantastic enemy. Loved Crowley and all his snarky comments. Ezekiel taking control over Sam was pretty impressive stuff. I’ve got my fingers crossed that this storyline provides us with some nice insights into Sam’s heart and mind and I’m really looking forward to Sam beginning to realise things aren’t quite right. How will the gaps in his memory when Ezekiel takes over be explained away? I can’t wait to see how this all plays out. Jared was excellent at playing the two Sams – it was quite disconcerting seeing Sam but hearing Ezekiel. No wonder poor Dean was looking so freaked out by it all.
Liked what Dean said to Sam at the end about all the people he’s helped.
I love love love Kevin. He broke my heart in this episode. I really feel for the poor lad.
I really hope that Sam is genuinely happy and that his happiness is not due to Ezekiel dancing around in Sam’s mind somehow. I can see how Sam would be happy now; he’s feeling well for the first time in a long time, he’s physically healed and Dean’s words in the church would have healed the emotional wounds. But I do wonder if it’s down to Ezekiel, either because of him just being there or because of him actively manipulating Sam’s mind. It was so hard to hear him talk about being happy for the first time ever when we all know that this happiness is not going to last. “Things are good.”….Oh Sam. 😥
[quote][quote]Hi bookdal!!
Next, Oh, Abaddon and Dean’s scene gives me goosebumps! Damn it! Why is Dean look so hot being manhandled by a woman? That man! Sorry if I didn’t pay attention to the dialog that much. Oh, my heart! [/quote]
I’m sorry, I can’t help myself – I have to agree with this. I don’t know how many times I have to watch this scene to finally be able to pay attention in the dialogue. Maybe if I put a tarp on the tv screen.[/quote]
LOL I feel so guilty afterwards because I rewind it like 5 times last night. Dean’s right, it seemed Abaddon was more interesting to make out with him than fight. Hmmm… who wouldn’t want to. 😀
Thank you all for the comments and your theories! I’ve been reading through and I love our fandom. We’re so smart! Yay, us!
The reason Zeke can’t be Lucifer- because he’s in Sam already. If Lucifer was topside and got in Sam, he would not be hanging around- he’d be off doing his nefarious plans.
[quote]The reason Zeke can’t be Lucifer- because he’s in Sam already. If Lucifer was topside and got in Sam, he would not be hanging around- he’d be off doing his nefarious plans.[/quote]
First I don’t think Zeke is Lucifer, although I would kind of like it if he were. That said, Lucifer could be injured and needs to heal before doing anything nefarious. But even if he were Lucifer, he might not want to do anything nefarious at this time. The back story on Lucifer in the Supernatural universe is that he rebelled because he didn’t want to bow down to humans and he didn’t want HIS FAMILY to bow down to humans. I can conceive of a Lucifer who wants to get his family back into heaven more than he wants the Apocalypse. Heck, I can even envision Michael and Lucifer putting aside their differences and working together to restore the angels to their rightful home. Michael and Lucifer were stuck together for we don’t know how much time in the cage. The rage could have died. They could have made a tentative peace. They could have decided to put the Apocalypse on hold, get their brethren back to heaven, deal with that upstart Metatron and when all that is squared away, try to restart the Apocalypse.
As I said, I don’t believe that is the way they will go, but I can justify Lucifer not going all Apocalyptic at this time.
It is also possible that Zeke is Michael, not Lucifer. Sam was supposedly purified during the trials, so he may not have the necessary demon blood content to hold Lucifer. Michael may be taking over to help take back heaven and maybe to take control of Sam’s body, make Sam drink demon blood to hold Lucifer and then use the favor Dean owes him to take over Dean.