Robin’s Rambles: Supernatural Episode 8.23, “Sacrifice”
I know I haven’t been here for many months, and all I’m going to say about that is that I had two back surgeries to have a spinal deformity corrected, and I’m healing, with maddening sloth. I also wanted to say that I have been thoroughly enjoying season eight of “Supernatural” way more than six and seven. I love the addition of the Men of Letters batcave as a home for the brothers and that they found their way back to each other after a rocky start. I was NOT a big fan of Amelia, and while I found Benny a fascinating character, I didn’t like the brother-like bond he shared with Dean. Sam and Dean belong together like, to coin a phrase Forrest Gump used, peas and carrots.
Now, on to the incredible finale episode, “Sacrifice.”
- Jody’s date with Crowley? Chilling. She thought she was on a real date and found him hot. Little did she know how hot he really was. I assume she survived, but I wish we had seen it.
- Sad: no keggers at the Batcave, says Dean. Kevin has no friends.
- God was a fair sexist, says Metatron. Really? Was he lying?
- Cas knows nothing about sex after watching porn, or Metatron’s expressions for it confuse him? LOL!
- Speaking of which, in Bobby’s deserted salvage yard: Show me yours, I’ll show you mine, and Crowley talks “Dangly bits.” LOL!
- Why isn’t almost-lawyer Sam reading the fine print? Just wondering?
- Loved how they caught Crowley in demonic handcuffs–their bitch. “You’re the third trial.” Gave me happy chills!
- “Nurse role play and light domination?” asks Cas. I choked on my laughter! Not the most subtle tool in the shed, no.
- I wonder what Dean did to Penny in 6th grade?
- Sam confesses. Imagine all he had to say?
- Naomi: debrief= torture: brrrrrr – drill to the eyeball as Metatron is her helpless prisoner.
- I wish Sam hadn’t urged Dean to leave him alone with Crowley to go with Cas! Now Dean won’t be able to poop for a week.
- Kevin and the Angel Tablet – Cas gets in his face, all badass. Do it!
- Every time Sam injected Crowley, I winced. When Crowley bit him, I screamed. Why was Crowley able to summon demons from Sam’s blood after he purified it?
- Cas found a not- female? LOL! Dean questions Cas about boarding up heaven–Cas might die. ET goes home. LOL! A delivery gal enters the bar. There is the bartender and another man sitting on a stool. Dean declares it’s like the start of every porno he’s ever seen. The delivery gal places her hands on both men’s shoulders and says she’ll be seeing them both. She leaves. The two men kiss to the jukebox playing “It’s So Nice to Be With You.” The delivery gal is the Cupid! Cas convinces her to let him cut the bow from the center of her palm (ouch). Cupid says it’s chaos at home. Cas hope, with time, to fix that.
- Crowley taunts Sam about his next love injection and sings “Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes!” The church begins to shake and the ground cracks, opening the ground and ripping the Devil’s trap imprisoning Crowley, who shouts that Sam couldn’t keep the King of Hell prisoner without someone finding out about it. Abaddon, wearing a t-shirt that says THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT, bursts in and sends Sam crashing out the window. Instead of saving Crowley, she says she intends to take his place and begins beating him up. Sam re-enters the church, tosses something flammable on Abaddon and sets her aflame, forcing her to smoke from her meat suit and out the window.
- Metatron, eye bleeding, tells Naomi that when God left, they had Paradise, but the Archangels ruined it all. “You ran me from my home,” he accuses bitterly, “did you think there would be no payback?” She disappears.
- Crowley is stunned Sam is going on with the trial–and Sam never watched HBO. “I deserve to be loved!” cries Crowley. Is the blood working? Or is Crowley faking? He asks Sam what he said when he confessed; given his history, where does he start to even look for forgiveness? Sam injects him again.
- Kevin reports to Dean that in his cursory inspection of the angel tablet, he sees nothing about Nephilim or Cupid’s arrow. Naomi appears and tells Dean and Cas (and Kevin, listening over the phone), that she was in Metatron’s head–he lied. The latter is trying to break heaven for revenge–expel all angels from heaven, just as God cast out Lucifer–send them here, to earth. Cas doesn’t believe her. They forgot their mission, says Naomi, to protect humans, and she wants to see Hell’s Gates closed, but if Sam completes the trial, he’ll die! She saw it in Metatron’s head–it was alway’s God’s intention. Naomi tells Cas she’s ready to listen to him now. (My heart is pounding now!)
- Dean asks Kevin if Naomi is right. Kevin doesn’t know. Cas is sure she’s lying. Dean commands Cas take him to Sam.
- Sam has begun the Latin exorcism, moments away from the final hand cut. When he slices open his hand, it glows (which had been happening to his arms the entire time). Cas leaves Dean at the church door insisting he’s not wrong and is going to fix his home. Inside, Sam is about to place his bleeding hand over Crowley’s mouth. Dean rushes in. “Sam, stop!” he shouts.
- In heaven, Cas finds Naomi dead, and Metatron holding a knife to his throat. “She told you I lied, didn’t she? You should have listened to the bitch,” says Metatron, smiling cruelly.
- Dean tells his crazy-eyed brother he’ll die if he finishes the trial. Shaking his head, Sam says, “SO?”
- Metatron has Cas imprisoned in a chair and tells him to stop worrying about master plans, heaven and angels–none of it concerns you anymore–these were never trials, but a spell–I’m taking your essence, your grace. He opens Cas’ throat and drains his grace into a vial, which he closes and pockets, then closes the slice in Cas’ throat. Metatron says, “Now something wonderful will happen–live this new life to the fullest–find a wife, make babies, when your soul comes to heaven, find me, and tell me your story. Now go.” He presses his hand to Cas’ head and they are enveloped in a blinding light.
- Sam, exhausted and sweating, sickly, points to Crowley. “Look how close we are!” he points out. “Other people will die if we don’t finish this!” Dean reminds him that with all they know, they can turn the tide, “But I can’t do it without you.” “You can barely do it with me,” says Sam, “you think I screw up everything I try.” “That’s not what I meant,” insists Dean. “That’s exactly what you meant,” counters Sam, and tells him his confession, his greatest sin–“how many times I let you down–I can’t do that again–what happens when you decide I can’t be trusted–again?–who you gonna turn to next time instead of me?–another angel? Another vampire?–do you have any idea what it feels like to watch your brother. . .”
- Dean: You seriously think that? None of it is true! know I’ve said some stuff that set you back on your heels, but Sam, come on, I killed Benny to save you. I’m willing to let this bastard and all the sons of bitches who killed Mom walk because of you–don’t you dare think there is anything, past or present, that I would put in front of you–it has never been like that, ever! I need you to see that, I’m beggin you!
- Blood is dripping from Sam’s glowing hand; he’s clearly in agony, measuring his brother’s words. They are both crying. “How do I stop?” begs Sam through gritted teeth. “Let it go,” Dean urges, wrapping Sam’s wounded hand, “we’ll figure it out.” “I can’t,” moans Sam, “it’s in me, Dean, you don’t know what this feels like.” Dean pulls Sam into a hug. “Come on, let it go,” repeats Dean, as Sam returns the hug fiercely, then pulls away to reveal the glow fading from his arms and hands. He and Dean smile gratefully for a few seconds. See? says Dean. suddenly, Sam cries out and collapses to the floor.
- Dean races his brother out of the church. “I’ve got you, little brother,” Dean assures Sam. They fall against the side of the Impala, Dean bellowing for Castiel.
- Cas comes to consciousness in a pile of leaves.
- In the batcave, red lights start flashing, recorders turn on, and Kevin watches it all.
- Cas walks through woods.
- Sam can’t breathe, and Dean calls his name.
- Crowley, still sitting in the church, opens normal-looking eyes.
- With lights and sirens blaring in the batcave, Kevin is panicking. Lights are going on all over the map.
- Cas runs through the woods, then stops in a clearing to watch angels dropping out of the sky.
- Sam reacts violently as angels fall from the sky. “What’s happening?” he asks. “Angels–they’re falling,” Dean tells him.
1. Sam didn’t finish the demon trials, but he was left in poor physical shape. Why did he react so violently to the falling angels and how will not finishing the trials affect him. God wanted him to do this.
2. It appeared that Metatron took Cas’ grace and sent him to earth without his powers. When that happened to Anna, she suffered memory loss. Will that happen to Cas, too?
3. Angels were falling to earth from the sky. Did Metatron cause that? Has he forced all angels from heaven?
4. Kevin, inside the Bat Cave, was surrounded by warning lights going off. I wonder if the place is self destructing. I hope not.
5. Is Crowley, just seconds from being cured, still a demon? Since Sam didn’t apply the blood gag, where does he stand now?
6.Abbadon escaped her meat suit and is in the wind. I wonder what she is going to do next season?
7. Can we assume Crowley let Sheriff Mills live? I sure hope so. The scene between them was so chilling!
I thought this an excellent finale. I was crying during the scene between Dean and Sam as they hashed out all the stuff that had come between them. Sam really was prepared to sacrifice his life to close Hell’s gates and he thought Dean would be ok with that? Stupid little brother!
Crowley was great in this ep. I really don’t want to lose him. Although if he’s human now, I don’t think he’ll be as much fun.
What’s going to happen with all those angels here on earth? Yikes, the meat suits alone!
I give this ep 10. You?
Welcome back Robin…. wasn’t clear to me if Sam was reacting to the falling angels or if it was his body reacting to “letting go of the trials”. Only 4.5 months till we find out 🙂
Thanks for the welcome back! I corrected the error to Sam’s line. It’s hard to hear sometimes. What an episode!
I’m not sure what Sam was reacting to, or if he will be all right come next season. Thanks for welcoming me back!
Love,
Robin
Oops, deleting this one
You still have two of the same comments, my friend.
Love,
Robin
robin, I enjoyed it. Bullet points rock.
Poor Jodi. I firmly think she is alive. Because I like her! But really, if you have to have another reason not to agree to blind dates… 😮
Yes, this was a cautionary tale anti-blind dates if ever we saw one, huh? And poor Jody had no idea Crowley was behind her “choking spell.”
Love,
Robin
[quote]robin, I enjoyed it. Bullet points rock.
Poor Jodi. I firmly think she is alive. Because I like her! But really, if you have to have another reason not to agree to blind dates… :o[/quote]
Sheriff Jody better be alive…. always thought Sammy would hook up with her for a little cougar action 🙂
Cougar action for Sammy, eh? He had a bit of that with Dr. Cara. And when he was soulless, he had a few older, married women. He seems to like ’em, doesn’t he? I never saw him with Jody, tho.
Love,
Robin
Talking about a date from Hell…
[quote]Talking about a date from Hell…[/quote]
Hah! 😆
Seriously!
😀
Anna literally fell to Earth like the other angels did and had to be reborn and grew up as a human whereas Cas was put back on Earth and seemed to know the angels were going to start falling so I think he’ll still have his memory. They already did the amnesiac Cas thing so I doubt they’d do that again. Amnesia is a pretty weak plot device to begin with! It will be interesting to see how he copes with not only being human but with failing, yet again. I have a feeling the Bly angel they’ll have to deal with next season is Metatron … feels weird to say that with Cas still in the mix even though I thought he’d somehow lose his grace and become human.
You’re right–Anna was born an infant. I forgot that. I wonder if he remembers the Winchesters and will try to find them? Ironically, as Jimmy, Cas already had the wife and child Metatron urged him to have.
Love,
Robin
Cas had the wife twice! Once for Jimmy (Amelia) and once for amnesiac Cas (Daphne). Oh No! Cas is a bigamist!!!! 😮
I forgot all about Daphne! Metatron didn’t do his homework on Cas, did he? Love, Robin
Anna literally fell to Earth like the other angels did and had to be reborn and grew up as a human whereas Cas was put back on Earth and seemed to know the angels were going to start falling so I think he’ll still have his memory. They already did the amnesiac Cas thing so I doubt they’d do that again. Amnesia is a pretty weak plot device to begin with! It will be interesting to see how he copes with not only being human but with failing, yet again. I have a feeling the only angel they’ll have to deal with next season is Metatron … feels weird to say that with Cas still in the mix even though I thought he’d somehow lose his grace and become human.
Nicely done and glad you are on the mend. To answer 2 questions you pose1. Dean is reading the fine print of the contract so when Sam goes to sign it, Crowley is looking at Sam and does not see Dean slipping on the handcuffs. Remember Dean is sly with handcuffs several times in previous seasons and with Grandfather Winchester; also Dean as the older of the two always looks out for Sam’s best interest and it might have raised suspicion had Dean let Sam read it. Remember the boys hatched this plan together and the only one surprised was Crowley-watch for Sam’s ok do it to Dean.
2. To summon demons or have a blood conversation, the spiled blood does not have to be demonic as we have scene Meg #1 make a “call” using truck driver’s blood. So pure or not it seems to work for long distance calls. It does raise the question as to whether Sam’s blood is purified since technically he did not confess to a priest,but some religions use direct confession to God, who may have been listening or not, but is certainly not upstairs. Cas was restored before by his Father when he was imploded by Lucifer, so he may have heard Sam’s confession. It is unclear if Cas has his memory although he does not look surprised to see the falling angels. It is troublesome that Sam feels the pain of the angel that falls into the lake. So lots of angels on earth without direction=havoc? Abaddon smoked out and clearly she wants to move up the corporate ladder. Beautiful and artistic as is your minute to minute review.
Thank you! You are so kind!
Love,
Robin
Robin, best wishes on your recovery, I had hip surgery in late January, and am doing better than before. Hope yours works as well.
#debbab answered your questions very well, and I concur completely.
After time to think, my question is does Metatron now consider himself, the New new God? You wouldn’t think so as he talks to Niomi, but he was duplicitous in his communications with basically everyone. He might be the new Crowley, although I certainly hope not.
The scene between Dean and Sam hooked me through the heart again! Jeremy Carver certainly knows how to push my buttons, and I suspect lots of us share some of the same “family” buttons, for what ever reason. Just wishing we didn’t have to wait months to find out whether “angels” includes those humans who have gone to Heaven…Bobby could return to the cast without any further plot explanation. 🙂 Just saying….
Glad to hear your hip is working well. I was told my surgery takes a year of recovery. I still have six months to go.
What will happen with Crowley fascinates me. De-man? Hu-mon? I sure hope Metatron isn’t a demon. That would suck. But he was a pissed-off angel, that’s for sure!
I was also thinking Bobby could easily return to us now as a cast-from-heaven angel, along with everyone else the brothers saw up there! Talk about reunions!
I was crying during the Dean-Sam scene, buckets of tears. That hug. . .damn them, they always do that to me!
Love,
Robin
What I’ve noticed:
1. No one cared to explained what happened to poor Penny from 6th grade. I suppose it was one of Dean’s stupidest practical jokes, and he was so ashamed afterwards that subconsciously turned the tables – bringing himself to believe that it had been Sam’s deed. This is all about perception:-)
2. Silly demons still don’t seem to realize that sending a Winchester through a window will never work. The boys have too good heads on their shoulders.
3. It,s very dangerous to stop in the middle of medical treatment, so I think Crowley is going to become even angrier and more of a son of a witch than before. And BTW, god Plutos accused Crowley that he didn’t have a soul to trade, remember? So how can he be cured, what is there to be cured in him? Just wonder.
4. Almost in any review I read the last dialogue between the boys was quoted verbatim, so good it is! And every time I’m rereading it with delight. Mr Carver, you rule!
I feel Mr. Carver rules, too, yet many folks feel the dialogue between Sam and Dean wasn’t enough, left too little of Dean’s feelings on the table. Do you agree or disagree? Love, Robin
I disagree. Dean’s feelings about himself have been expressed earlier in the season, but his love for Sam once again exudes from every word, expression, gesture. This time Sam is alive to hear Dean and once more Dean’s love “saves” Sam. More dialogue would have been wasteful imo. The scene was so dramatic, extra words are not needed. It is writer using and choosing his words carefully. Just as Sam’s ‘So?” is short and so revealing about Sam. A good writer knows when to put the pen down.
I agree. I am a staunch Dean defender when needed. But I feel this scene was about Sam expressing his pain and Dean reacting to that. No more words were needed. I have always liked the brother moments where the acting told the story more than wordy dialogue.
Welcome Back! I think Crowley will be changed but I don’t know if that means he’ll really be good. I got the impression he got to Hell the usual way. And we don’t know a cure means they don’t have their powers, do we? So I still think he would be formidable.
Thanks, Kelly! Whatever happens with Crowley will be very interesting, I’m sure. Will he be friend or foe now? I can’t wait to find out. So many fates left up in the air! Squeeeee!
Love,
Robin
whose word do we have that the tablets were written by god?
Don’t Dean and Sam have many friends in heaven? Perhaps there is a way to speak to Pamela to get intel?
Perhaps angel Michael is worth rescuing from hell now that he hasn’t got any juice left? Just saying.. they’re all in a fox hole now.
Also just wondering where angels go when they die? If it’s heaven… then perhaps they can from a resistance army?
[i][b]IF[/b][/i] Crowley can be trusted then they will have the intel on heaven that he knows about.
Also Naomi spirit/soul/essence has got to be [i]somewhere[/i] and I have a feeling that Crowley knows where. [b]If[/b] she really is a goodie then she went about it in the worst possible way.
I feel so sorry for Cas, the poor guy NEVER catches a break!!!
Why didn’t dead Naomi have angel wings?
Pamela may show up on earth as a fallen angel.
I wonder if the now-human Cas remembers Sam and Dean?
Love,
Robin
Hello Robinv! I guess that Misha said something at Asylum ths weekend that Cas does still have all his memories so that answers that, I guess! Maybe he’s just in too much shock to say anything yet … I mean, The Angels are falling (which is kinda his fault for putting his faith in the wrong place, again) and he’s now human which I’m sure is a bit of a shock to him as well. I do wonder how he’ll be next season with all the guilt he’s going to feel heaped on that new soul he has now. It’s not going to be pretty.
Now, lets see if I can post this without double posting! 🙂
Uh oh, did Misha spill the beans? Reveal something spoilery? Bad Boy! We shall see!
Love,
Robin
Less spoilers, more clarification I’d say. Cas seemed to know what was happening and looked pretty broken the last shot of him … hopefully Sam and Dean will work on how to tell if someone’s lying to him or not in the future because right now the only people he can trust is them only because they haven’t lied to him!
Also, they haven’t done the dead angel wings in a while … didn’t see Balthazar or Samandriel’s so maybe that fell by the wayside somehow. It was a cool effect though so not sure what happened.
Maybe the dead angel wings effect is too expensive? Or Carver stopped using it? Who knows? Poor continuity, if so. Love, Robin
I thought the intel on the tablets was solid MOL info.
They do have many friends in heaven, including Bobby! Maybe he can help now!
Who knows what state Michael is in now? After being trapped down there all this time?
As I’ve said before, since Sam didn’t complete Crowley’s conversion, who knows what state he’s in now? Friend or enemy, messed up inbetweener, who knows?
Love,
Robin
Again and again this question arises – what defines a soul in SPNunverse? Cas once told(to Crowley) that he as an angel has no soul. He has grace, but like people can live without their souls (Sam) angels can survive without their grace. BTW, was it Cas in the end or Jimmy? I prefer Cas even as a comic relief, he’s so endearing! And then I don’t think that crazy!Cas in season7 was just comic, he might have been closer to God than when he tried to play Almighty Supreme.
I so want to hear what you guys think of Soul Problem.
Why didn’t dead Naomi have angel wings?
Pamela may show up on earth as a fallen angel.
I wonder if the now-human Cas remembers Sam and Dean?
Love,
Robin
Robinv
It’s going to be VERY interesting to see who does show up on earth as fallen angels. I would love one to be Pamela. Do you know if they have ever answered the question where angels go when they die? It would be lovely to see Samandriel or Anna again.
As I am writing this it occurs to me that Castiel didn’t fall and his wings may still be intact?
Also, did we ever see Naomi or Metatron’s wings? I don’t recall that we did, so again we don’t know whether they ARE angels. Why did Sam resonate with Metatron? Again we only have Metatron’s reasoning for his resonation. Perhaps Sam was resonating for different reasons.
Also we don’t know who built the bunker. Perhaps the MOL are far more powerful than Dean and Sam realise. Also perhaps the bunker is reacting to Sam’s change and not to the angels falling.
I love speculating like this!!
So glad you are back Robin, and improving, though slowly.
Missed you. 🙂
It’s good you’ve been enjoying this season in spite of your convalescence. What a lot to speculate over the helatus! I haven’t a clue what’s what. 😮
I believe canon does specify that ‘men cannot become angels’ as they are a separate species. (Houses of the Holy) but who knows, as I read in another post, perhaps Bobby, Ellen, Jo, Bill, Ash, Pamela, Andy, Sarah, Victor, Ronald, Frank, Jimmy, Rufus, the lady hunter who laid all 3 of them (Bobby,Dean & Sam), Mary, Samuel, John etc. can get together as some kind of fifth column up there in heaven to straighten out Metatron. LOL 😀 That way we could see some old friends once again.
Hi, Bevie, thanks for welcoming me back! I don’t know what you mean by “men cannot become angels”? I just want to see Bobby back again. That would be so cool! Love, Robin
I was referring to the murdered priest in “Houses of the Holy” in season 2, who believed he had become an angel and was compelling humans to gank the bad guys in the parish.
When the parish priest saw him materialise, he told him that “no, you are not an angel. Men cannot become angels” and give him the last rites so he could let himself go. To heaven, I presume.
Dean told Sam to make the spell by his grave to bring him up, and that would prove he was a spirit, not an angel. And so it did. Angels are separate species and have not souls, per Cas.
Hey, I want Bobby back too! I didn’t want him to go in the first place. Hopefully he and others gone before can gang up on Metatron up there and we will be able to see some of those great characters again. Bobby and Rufus together were great!
It would be kind of cool to have Bobby lead a rebellion in heaven. Although if John, Samuel, and Rufus were involved there would be a lot of bickering over who would run the show, all being alpha dogs and all 😀 Then the real leader, Ellen, could take over 😛
It would be great to see a few souls redeemed. I would love it say for example Michael, being down in hell all this time, realises the error of his ways and decides to fight for humans instead of against them.
I have always wondered about the season 5 hell situation. How is Lucifer represented in hell as he doesn’t have Sam’s body? Also surely Michael would be important now that he is the only angel that hasn’t ‘fallen’ so to speak.
I am wondering about the tablets because nobody (who is trustworthy at least) knows for definite who wrote them.
I have a feeling that Sam is going to be imbued with special powers since he hasn’t got rid of the glowy stuff inside him. Perhaps he is going to be able to control whatever it is the trials did to him.
I also think that there is a way to get into heaven just like there is a way to get into hell. I am also thinking about who is left in heaven now that angels have been kicked out. Where and who is metatron really? We have no proof that Naomi’s office is in heaven do we, or that she is even an angel? There seems to be history between her and Crowley, so maybe Crowley was an angel before? Or perhaps both Crowley and Naomi belong to an old ‘race’ that were neither angel nor demon. Maybe they were around long before angels were invented by god. Just saying. You see Naomi interact with other people in her office, but we don’t know what they are.
Any thoughts on this
kaz, hmm, I was going to say that physical bodies aren’t needed in hell. Dean didn’t have his. The demons seem to have a form in hell that is hideous, their true forms. They need vessels on earth. But I am not sure how that explains Bobby having his body in hell, or did he? Lucifer need an earthly vessel on earth but not in the cage? Now I’ve confused myself. Maybe someone ( percysowner?), who is excellent at this kind of thing, can clarify.
Hey Leah
It seems that the corporeal ‘body’ doesn’t necessarily have to be in hell like Adam’s is. Didn’t John come back to earth to end Azazel even though his body was roasted by the brothers? Really I think one has to sit down with a pen and paper and jot all this stuff down to remember it all when questions arise. Of course these could just be writing errors and we are reading way to much into it.
What do you think about Cas’s wings? Seeing as he didn’t fall from heaven, theoretically he should still have them, so maybe he can still zap.
Lastly do you know when the new season starts? It seems everyone is talking about October
Dang it double post
Leah, I’m pretty sure Bobby didn’t have his body in Hell or Purgatory. I think those are other planes (along with Heaven) of being we simply see the remnant of their physical beings that is connected to the soul. The same as when Sam and Dean went to Heaven. We saw their bodies in the hotel room but they were able to physically with their surroundings in Heaven. Sam and Adam in the Cage and Dean, Sam and Castiel were the oddities because they still had their earthly meat suits upon arrival. And Benny and Bobby need to travel inside a human in order to escape Purgatory. If Bobby had had his meatsuit he could have just gone out with Sam. Instead his soul traveled in Sam’s arm, same as Benny with Dean, and then his soul with to Heaven and Benny’s got poured into his body.
kaz, I think Michael and Lucifer separated from their meatsuits upon arrival. Lucifer almost assuredly did because it would be easier to torture Sam outside of him. Maybe in the process he separated Sam from his body as well and that is how Castiel mistakenly took the body while leaving the soul behind. Oops also meant to add in Heaven the angels don’t need a meatsuit to be seen as their true selves, I’m assuming it is the same in Hell and Cage.
Thanks Kelly! It gets confusing 😆 You and several others here are SO good at explaining this all.
Aww. Thanks, but I’m sure someone will correct me on one of my assumptions. That’s why I do love these boards. Because even if I miss something, someone else is on the ball. Like you and st50 the other day with that one scene.
Kelly and Leah
I know it has always bothered me this being able to project as a literal form or a ‘remnant’ form in heaven hell or purgatory. They defo burned Bobby’s body so he couldn’t have had it in hell or purgatory. If Michael isn’t wearing the brother (wozname) then where is the poor guy as we saw him fall into the pit season 5.
I have a feeling there is going to be a way into heaven like there was into hell through purgatory. Wouldn’t it be neat if purgatory also had a heaven gate. Dean and Sam would defo need Benny!!
Have you guys been wondering where all the essence has gone if the angels don’t have it anymore? Or is it when the angels fall, they do still have their essence? It just seems that they have lost their wings and powered down, not that they have lost their essence? Not sure.
I am also wondering about the lights that went off like a christmas tree in the bunker. It seems the whole world is being alerted by the map table. Maybe this isn’t the only bunker and there are MOL all over the world just like there are hunters. I think next season the bunker is really going to come into its own.
kaz,Adam and his meatsuit are still in the cage as far as we know. Although one the things high on my wishlist is to get him out.
The gate from Hell into Purgatory is a cool idea, but we would have the same continuity problem with explaining why the angels didn’t know about if the reapers did. I would it though it when creatures die in Purgatory they go to heaven. Most of the monsters we’ve met are acting on instinct and a need for survival. They’re not evil usually. So I think it’d be good if the had a chance to go to Heaven.
That’s a good questions about the angels essence which I’m assuming is the same as their grace. Anna’s grace created that huge tree when it fell to earth maybe theirs will have similar effects.
I don’t have a clue about the lights.
The gates didn’t close, did they? Wasn’t that just a ploy for Metatron?
I took the lightshow in the bunker as signs of massive supernatural activity worldwide, I didn’t consider more MOL bunkers. ??
Don’t angels have to lose their grace to fall. Powered down=losing grace?? Did Metatron’s spell mean he could gain access to all of the angels essence?
Sorry Kaz, I am no help, more questions than answers 😀
Leah and Kelly
ooh I love these ideas. If metatron has all the angels essence then I suppose we have another Cas situation where he has access to way too much power. So I guess next season has something to do with de’nooking’ metatron.
Also I read somewhere that it looked like Sam suddenly revived when the first angel hit the earth. Did you see it that way?
re the gates. Getting confused again. So Metatron used a spell on Cas to get all the angels to fall from heaven but didn’t close the gates of hell. Is this right?
I don’t know that Sam revived when the angels fell to earth, but he sure reacted when they did! I believe the trials have somehow connected Sam to the angels. Sam was supposed to die when he completed the trials; Naomi read that from Metatron’s mind, and that was from GOD himself! So perhaps God had a special plan for Sam?
Love,
Robin
All of this is very interesting. I made some research on the Galahad legend after Sam mentioned it in The Great Escapist. If I get it right, Galahad completed the required trials and, as a prize, he gained the right to choose when he would die. He went to Heaven and liked it so much that he chose to die imediately. Any connections here with Sam’s story?
Robinv and Moose Girl
I also feel that Sam is going to be connected to angels somehow, but for some reason I am not so sure that god wrote the tablets. We really only have Metatron and I think Naomi’s word that they did, and both can’t be trusted. I also have a problem thinking that they are ‘angels’. Why would a drill kill Naomi? I thought that nothing could kill them except those angel knife things, however, I am seriously no expert.
Moose Girl I agree about Adam though (a few posts down), they shouldn’t have mentioned him if he wasn’t important to the story line, and it would bring closure to that if Dean and Sam were told that say he was living in heaven or something.
I don’t know Galahad’s story but I agree with robinv, something is happening with Sam and I really hope it is something for the good this time. Poor Sam and Cas need a break already!
The drill Naomi was using to torture Metatron had been used to torture other angels; it must be made of the same material angel swords are. Metatron killed her with that same drill. She was some piece of work, and she treated Cas terribly. I don’t know whose side she was truly on, but in the end I think she was trying to be on the side of the Winchesters and Cas–just too late to save herself. Love, Robin
I know, but I am a sucker for remorse. I remember hating Meg and my goodness did she dump loads onto Dean and Sam. But in the end she redeemed herself and I was very sad to see her go. I think had Naomi stuck around, I could have grown to like her too. This show must stop killing women already! Have you noticed, far more women die horrible deaths than do men.
Hi Kaz1,
Here’s a link to an article on that very same subject! I found this a very interesting read. It only goes to season 6 but I would think that the numbers are still pretty much the same. Despite the fact that it doesn’t feel that way, there are far, far fewer female victims and/or female deaths than men, just not sure why it feels like there are more!
Have fun! http://spn-heavymeta.livejournal.com/425753.html
Hey E
That was an interesting read, E thanks so much for the link. There are so many compelling points regarding emissions and errors though. If you look at the pie chart demonstrating % of most notable deaths, the gender ratio is equal. But I wouldn’t have included Balthazar, Gordon, Hendrickson, Zachariah, Alistair, (and you can’t count Samuel’s death twice) as important deaths compared to Jess, Jo, Ellen, Anna for e.g. as these people were not ‘business’ partners so to speak but actual friends (and even considered family) to the brothers. So I guess what I should say is the woman who are important to the brothers end up dying horribly (Jo and Ellen jeesh) I suppose. I just wish they would allow a few women to survive more than a few seasons like Crowley, Cas, Garth, Kevin etc. But boy this is thought provoking because it [i]seems[/i] like women end up dying more that men, I guess mostly because there are far fewer women on the show in general. I am racking my brains as to what women [i]are[/i] left going into season 9. Hopefully that list begins with Jodi Mills.
kaz1, for the number of seasons alive Jo and Crowley still beat all the men you list except Crowley and Cas. They equal Crowley. But the number do get confusing. Because they were really only on the show alive 2 and 5, but Ellen actually was alive AGAIN for an episode in S6 and Jo was on the show once more when she was dead. And Meg beats everyone length wise even Bobby. If we go by the number of episodes they were in they still beat out or equal most of the men you listed. Ellen was in eight episodes and Jo in 7. So Kevin as well as Cas, Crowley and of course Bobby would beat out Jo. Samuel, Zachariah would equal Jo but not Ellen. And Ruby beats everyone except Cas, Crowley and Bobby.
I think my point is I still think that the higher number of women’s death that people seemed convinced of despite the evidence to the contrary, is more to do with the viewer than the show. Supernatural has a high number of women viewers. Women have a tendency to notice violence against women and deaths of women more. So we remember those moments more clearly than the ones against men. I know the women in my family notice violence against children even more than women. I’m guessing most women, especially mothers, are the same. I can still list every child that was killed on X-Files and their deaths seem the worst even though the were pretty much off screen and the were mild in comparison to other deaths. I think we’re simply conditioned to notice certain deaths more, so therefore there seem to be more of them.
Hey Kelly
You make a good point about women tuning into women violence. I suppose it’s a cultural thing that alarm bells go off when women are harmed. On the site that E linked me to, someone made the point that culturally men on men violence is accepted due to gender roles, war etc. So I suppose as viewers we are not so tuned into violence where men are concerned as it is more accepted. But I do think that because there are fewer women on the show, it seems that more females are killed off. I am going to be annoyed if they have killed off Jodi Mills.
oh I’ve just remembered, can you recall a conversation between Dean and Sam where Dean lists all the people that they have gotten killed, all the people he lists are women… “mom, jess, jo, ellen should I continue” I wonder why he didn’t mention anyone else? I think at the time there were very few men that had died at that point. I could be wrong as I’m not good at recalling this stuff accurately.
Meg had to die because she was the best choice for the ‘curing a demon’ task. She was half way there, already! I’m certain she would have gone willingly. And she would have been a nice human pair with Cas. Life is unfair… 🙁
Cas’s essence was needed to finish the spell to eject the angels. Cas was tricked by Metatron because Cas wanted so badly to make “his family” better even if he had to kill and maime and sacrifice himself. He was blind to Metatron’s motive. I do not think Sam revived when the angel fell. I think he was in pain and was wincing from it. He has changed on a sub atomic level and yes, he may be connected to the heaven’s angels. He certainly resonates when he is near Metatron. The Gates of Hell are not closed because Sam did not complete the exorcism of Crowley. While Metron ejected the angels from Heaven, it is not clear if he closed those gates. Spells can be broken. Who knows if the words on the tablets were true. It seems as though Metatron may have not exactly carried out his scribe duties to the fullest. Kevin needs to translate the angel tablets to see what they say as Metatron lied about their content and purpose. “So?” my new favorite word of the series.
So what Metatron did to Cas happened to ALL of heaven’s angels? They all lost their grace and fell to earth as human beings, or did the angels fall to earth as angels who will now be forced to find human vessels?
So many questions!
Love,
Robin
Robin and Debbab
If getting essence/grace involves individually cutting throats to get it then I don’t think all the angels have lost theirs, surely it would have taken metatron ages. But I am thinking that was one powerful spell that Metatron performed to get all the angels to fall simultaneously. I am still not convinced that this ‘spell’ was written by god tho. If metatron made the spell up then he is seriously more powerful than archangels. I am also not convinced that the tablets were written by god either. They just seemed so ungodly like. Kill a hellhound, save a demon? I don’t know, it just doesn’t seem connected or relevant somehow. If god wanted to shut the gates of hell, then why would he need some arbitrary person to perform tasks to do it to prove his worthiness. It just seems odd somehow. Anyway enough rambling
kaz1,
God’s trials seems believable to me. Like Dean said: if you know how to: 1) kill a hellhound (saving people from going to Hell), 2) rescue people from Hell and 3) cure a demon, why would you want to shut the gates? Looks like a God test: it’s your choice: you can take the easy path (lock them up), but the price is to die; or you can take the hard one, which is use your knowlegde to really save people.
Ale
Never thought of that Ale, it’s a good point. But then (isn’t there always) why were the tablets necessary in the first place. I don’t see the point of having to earn worthiness. god has gone awol and he expects humans to make the right choices when he knew even the angels (who didn’t even [i]have [/i]free will) couldn’t make them, hence god having to cast Lucifer out of heaven.
Also why write the tablets and then make them impossible to find and translate, so the ‘right’ people might one day come along and find them and begin saving people. According to canon, Dean and Sam were meant to be. So if he knew they were going to be ‘saviours’ on earth, why not just send a message via Cas and tell them how to get ppl out of hell and to cure a demon. Why did he let Dean and Sam kill so many demons (and the host human) for so many years when all they needed to do was cure them. It just seems cruel to say it’s because god wanted to test them to see if they would make the right choice.
I have a feeling that Sam has now a connection with the angels. Do you remember what Metatron said back in The Great Escapist about the effects of the trials? And I can’t forget how he flinched when the angels hit ground. 😕
Speaking of bodies in Hell, the Adam story is one that troubles me. I find it hard to believe that Sam and Dean, being so concerned about saving inocent people, don’t seem to spare a single thought about a son of their father.
I know that Adam is not a favorite with fadon, but his story deserves a resolution. The second trial could have been to fetch Adm from Hell (instead of Bobby) and send him to Heaven to stay with his mother. After all, the boy was a victim. His only sin was being John’s son. To me, it would have been perfect. End of Adam’s story.
HI Moose Girl
for some reason I can’t get connected to Adam (I think it’s because the poor actor played the part of that snitch in I am No. 4). Also, I get the feeling that Adam was introduced to overcome some myth arc hitch way back when when they needed to further the story line without Dean succumbing to Michael. But I know what you mean, if they are family and they say what they do about family then Adam must mean the same to them. Not sure though as I hope they don’t bring him back
Hi kaz1,
Yes, many people feel like you about Adam. Bit it wouldn’t be necessary to bring him back to the show for more than one episode. A solution, that’s all I ask for. Dean even mentioned Adam in “Appointment in Samarra”, when Death told him to choose only one of his brothers. So he’s aware that his other brother is still down there, but doesn’t seem to mind. Nor does Sam. It’s very odd that Adam should be mentioned if nothing is going to be done about it. I just think it’s OCC for the boys.
Michael told Dean that Adam was long gone when he took his meatsuit. Of course, angels lie, but there may not be a meat suit of Adam to bring back. The actor has gone on to other work, I hear and it would not work IMO with another meat suit. When Dean and Sam are given the ONE innocent soul to bring back from Hell, they pick Bobby, not Adam. It seems as Bobby said, you don’t have to be blood to be family. Adam is in the cage if he still exists and that is a more isolated and difficult part of Hell to get someone out of, you need more power that a human has- IMO the brothers care or they would not have mentioned him, but they have to make hard choices and sacrifices so I think it is not OOC but rather one more agonizing decision and loss they suffer. I’m not into the Adam story so maybe I am seeing it from a different POV.
IMO They don’t even have to bring the character back, just have Sam mention that he was alone in Hell as Adam was redeemed before they ever hit bottom. There may be a reason they’ve kept that door open, or they just don’t know what to do with Adam.
ThisOldBag and Debbab
True I don’t think they will bring him back but it does seem to be a gripe with fans that they haven’t put this to bed. It would have been good to know that he is in heaven, especially at this time. I also find it kind of odd that Cas never got word of Adam’s whereabouts.
Just an aside. There are so many of these little unanswered questions in this show. My favourite are the necklace that Sam gave Dean when they were kids. I would love to see that make a comeback somehow. I would like to see I think its Ron or Ronny or Roland or something get his comeuppance (the guy that shot Sam and Dean when they went to heaven). And whatever happened to that ubiquitous clock that showed up in every hotel room season 1-5.
I would also love some sort of closure for Adam. It doesn’t seem right that they don’t even speak of him. He’s down there fighting Lucifer, doing what Dean was destined to do. It doesn’t seem fair, does it? Love, Robin
Welcome back Robin! What a great episode to begin your return with. I am still reeling from all the “feels” and surprises. This finale was visually beautiful, the acting superb, emotionally gripping, and excellent in the teeing up for next season. Hope to see you here during the hiatus and continued good wishes during your recovery. Thanks!!
I answered this last night, but it didn’t show up! Thanks very much for the welcome back, Leah! I thought the falling angel effects were stunning and beautiful! The acting–everyone!–was award-winning, it truly was! Not that I’m holding my breath, come awards time. I couldn’t sleep, I was so worked up after watching that show! Love, Robin
Robin
This show defo deserves an award for the finale. It has been touted as the best yet so fans seem to be over the moon about it. I have read somewhere that Supernatural never wins due to tv politics. Not sure about this as I don’t know how it works over there. But it would be a crying shame if Supernatural didn’t win something for this effort.
Hey Robin, nice to have you back (no pun intended). You haven’t lost your touch. Hope to see your rambling here when season 9 starts up. Is it October yet?
Thanks, Sylvie! I’m glad to be back, and I hope to critique all eps of the show next year. My brain and fingers were itching, but my back would not cooperate! I loved this season so much and missed WFB, too!
Love, Robin
Some folks think Castiel might still have his wings or some of his powers, but I doubt it. Since Metatron took his grace, Cas is completely human. Love, Robin
Robin
I suspect he has his wings tho. Metatron cast him down without him falling to earth, so I am hoping this means he still has his wings. Whether he can zap anywhere with them is another story entirely. But he isn’t without means, just like Anna wasn’t. She could do things that her ‘subconscious’ still remembered, like zap angels away.