Let’s Speculate: “Supernatural” 8.11, “LARP and the Real Girl”
Warning! If you haven’t seen “LARP and the Real Girl,” read no further! There will be spoilers aplenty, and this is the kind of episode you want to experience for yourself!
So, how much fun was that episode? So much fun! I loved it. We got some nods to what has been happening lately with the main story, and that was just enough. This episode was filler, sure, but damn, it was some good filler! But since it was filler, I really don’t have anything to theorize about or over-analyze. So I’m just going to write this bullet-point style and talk about some of the fun things in the episode.
- Felicia Day was, once again, fantastic as Charlie. She should definitely pop up once or twice a season, don’t you think?
- Charlie and Dean are great together. They really bonded this episode, and I can totally see them being close friends. I mean, Dean was talking to her about his problems. Dean! Talking about his problems! WILLINGLY! That is huge. Charlie should show up more often just for that. I bet she can work her problem-talking skills on Sam, too.
- How refreshing was it to have same-sex flirting/kissing that wasn’t made fun of or exploited or fetishized or anything like that? It was natural to the character and organic to the show, and it was great. Good for you, Charlie.
- That being said, Gilda (who I keep wanting to call Glinda) had the CREEPIEST skull costume. Stupidly creepy.
- My mother-in-law watched the episode with me, and she loved the sheriff at the beginning. I have to agree with her. He was fun.
- “These kids today, with their texting and murder.” Ha!
- I love how quickly Dean went from being really skeptical and antagonistic toward LARPing to really getting into it. “I can wear costumes and swing swords and do military strategy? YES!” Dean would be a great LARPer. As would Sam. Sam could be the queen’s bodyguard because who would dare challenge him? He’s huge!
- I think Sam secretly loves to make Dean think he’s gonna ruin all the fun and then agree to have the fun because it makes Dean even happier when he gets to do something he didn’t think he would. Sam really plays that up, and then lets his brother go wile because he knows how much Dean really loves to throw himself into these sort of things.
- “Braveheart” speech. “It’s the only one he knows.” That was AMAZING!
- HOLD!
- How many of you caught the Dragonage shout-out to Felicia Day?
- I will say, though, the one thing that bugged me was this: Charlie’s life is in danger, Dean wants her to leave, she refuses. Oh, so let’s just have her walk through the woods ALONE. No problem.
- I hope Gilda turned Sam and Dean’s guns back to guns because that was Dean’s favorite.
- Sam in a ponytail. Yes. Yes, indeed.
- Dean in a wig.
- Facepaint!
- I also liked that Dean is reaching out to Sam and is trying to express that he knows Sam made a sacrifice staying in hunting, and that he appreciates it. I wish they’d written that storyline a little better, but it’s good of Dean to do that. I wonder if he told Sam about breaking contact with Benny or not.
- I am always amazed at what they get away with, gore-wise, on this show. I’m generally not squicked by much, but I really couldn’t watch the drawn and quartered scene. That was horrible to me for some reason.
- “They were from me, but they weren’t from me me.” Sorry, man, but that kind of logic only works when the Winchesters use it. Good try, though!
- Dean busting out his gun and scaring the LARPers with it was such a Dean move.
- Carrie Heinlein, Charlie’s alias, sounds like a nod to Carrie Fisher from “Star Wars” and the Sci Fi author Robert Heinlein. Did anyone else think that?
- You just know Sam is gonna fix their FBI badges first thing the next morning.
- Can you imagine the aftermath of that fake battle Sam and Dean led? Those poor LARPers don’t stand a chance against two gigantic guys who have actually trained in hand-to-hand combat. It’s gonna be a fake bloodbath.
- “The pornstar?” *epic bitchface* “The poison.” “Oh.”
- Sam got choked by a suit of armor. I count at least two inanimate objects he’s been choked by, a lamp cord and armor. That guy gets choked so often… Is there some other inanimate object I’m missing, though?
- I think Charlie put the crown on Dean’s head because she wouldn’t be able to reach Sam’s.
- HOLD!
- I think Sam and Dean need to start policing eBay, make sure there aren’t other actual spell books on there. Or have Garth do it. That seems like a task Bobby would have done (sob!) so now it’s up to Garth.
What did you all think of tonight’s episode? Did you like it as much as I did? Robbie Thompson is very rapidly ascending the ranks as one of my favorite SPN writers. He’s been pretty great so far. I’m looking forward to his next outing!
LOVED THIS EPISODE. OMG I LOVED THIS EPISODE. It was pure joy!
Everything you listed is a big yes. Charlie. Charlie and Glinda. Blond wig and ponytail. So much goodness.
By far, my favorite of the season so far. Charlie was great! Dean was so completely adorable. He was really getting into the LARPing, which is hilarious. And he and Charlie were so cute with their similar interests, in porn stars and battle strategy. And the cute little grin he got whenever he started geeking out-it just made me want to hug him (okay maybe more than hug him).
Sam was so funny here too, especially with his look at both Dean and Charlie’s guess for Bella Donna. I swear you could almost see the words “Great there’s 2 of them.†I thought he seemed happy to see Dean enjoying himself. I loved how they were with each other in this episode.
And I totally wanted Sam to get with Maria. I liked her better in the few minutes she was on screen than the all the scenes with Amelia combined (although she was obviously deflecting or delusional with that “Your loss†comment.) I also like Charlie and Dean agreed that the text was a dick move. There are just so many things to love about this episode. Like getting called out on being FBI. But my favorite moment though was when Sam says that they both need a break and how they joined in-OH HOW I LOVE THEM!
How many of you caught the Dragonage shout-out to Felicia Day?
Oh and I didn’t see the first time I watch but saw it the 2nd time.
What a trip! LOL
That last scene just took the cake – ALL the cake.
Sam and Dean dressed as characters from “Last of the Mohicans” and “Braveheart” respectively! Just…
WOW. 😛
I bet they had tons of fun with that. And I’m glad we finally got to see Sam dressed up, trying to let loose a bit for his brother’s sake.
Lots of light-hearted hilarity, Dean and Charlie’s friendship, some feel-good honesty, and Sam – Sam, how I love you for everything good that you are! – all made this quite the memorable episode.
I’m STILL chuckling at that last scene. Smh.
A couple things:
I agree the show has upped it’s gore factor this season.
I agree Sam fixed the FBI badges the next morning. 😛
The skull costume WAS creepy as hell.
I love Charlie. She’s just so fresh and unique.
Dean Winchester is one hot badass, even while playing a medieval “handmaiden” in chainmail!
That is all. 🙂
Loved, loved, loved this episode. Only SPN could find a way to insert true brotherly moments into a LARPing episode! OMG, who is this Dean? I love him more and more. First a warrior out of Purgatory, now this thoughtful brother who can sympathize for Sam’s loss? Talk about character maturation. I really feel like Dean is giving it his all. I just want to hug him and tell him how proud I am of him. (My mom gene is showing) Sam is still somewhat broken and I get that. But I would still like to see something from him acknowledging Dean’s year. Just seems like that fell to the wayside. Dean is giving a lot so maybe Sam’s time will come. But the boys actually having ‘fun’ together! Oh we so needed to see that. Love, love, love this show! Feeling good all around.
I swear, the boys have just found a new hobby.
I can really see the conversation down the line somehwere:
“No Garth, we can´t take a job this weekend. We have places to be.”
“What places?”
“Uhm, Moondoor… it´s… Battle of the Kingdoms.” *cough*
The LARPer in me approves!
Depiction of LARPing was of course… yeah well…
It was fun! Nuff said.
Dean and Charlie BFFs forever!
Sam finding interesting people.
The boys playing like… well boys….
Loved it!
Loved this episode so much… I’m still laughing about the ending and think I’ll have to have a re-watch tonight (instead of waiting until tomorrow, like I normally do).
I also laughed at your comment about Sam getting the FBI badges fixed the next day… you are so right! He looked mighty pissed that they guy caught them out 😛
There were so many great Dean moments – the crown on his head (and neither he nor Sam even blinked… lol), terrorizing the LARPers with real guns, and his Braveheart speech (it’s the only one he knows… awesome).
But I’m so glad it was Sam that suggested they both have fun at the end. Makes me feel all warm & fuzzy inside that maybe his wounds are starting to heal.
Can’t wait to read all your reviews 😆
FINALLY! A Supernatural episode this season that doesn´t make me mad and/or frustrated. I´m not an easy viewer, but I surprisingly found myself enjoying this episode with a silly smile on my face. The dramatic episodes are my favourite ones (only when the drama feels organic and understable, not what we are getting this season) , but man, I needed this kind of comedy in Supernatural again. I needed some brotherly moments again, so thank you for that, show.
Even knowing that the monster of the week plot wasn´t very well played (villian very easy to kill again) I really enjoyed the jokes and I really enjoyed the interaction between Charlie and Dean. I wish Sam had more interaction with her. Favourite scene: the ” Belladona ” thing hee hee. I loved Sam´s reaction to that.
It´s amazing how much emotion Jensen con express with one little gesture. He´s so expressive! And I love the chemestry he has with Felicia. Well, Jensen has chemestry with everybody, he´s just that good. I loved Jared´s and Felicias´acting too, I really really wished they had more interaction ´cause I think they have good chemestry too. Are you listening writers? Let Sam have some friends, not only unlikable girlfriends!
I love Charlie, she´s great, but I don´t think she has potential as a log term recurring character. We need some characters like Bobby, Ellen, John, Pamela and Ash were. I like maybe one comedic character (not Garth, I don´t like him) but we need more badass characters. But I really like Charlie and I hope she appears once in a while.She´s other kind of badass, an intellectual kind of badass.
I´m glad to say that I´m feeling a little more optimistic for the rest of the season. I´m feeling confident that the writers are going to fix the brothers´relationship and I´ve read some spoilers about the myth-arc that sound really good and have potential. I just don´t want quick fixing like seasons 6 and 7.I hope they don´t dissapoint me!
I don’t think Sam will ever get any friends. I’m not sure why. It is what it is.
I really have no opinion on this episode. I enjoyed the last scene a lot.
Well, he should. He used to deal with people better than anyone before. I´m still waiting for that bonding between Sam and Castiel that Jeremy Carver promised to us…
[quote]I don’t think Sam will ever get any friends. I’m not sure why. It is what it is.
I really have no opinion on this episode. I enjoyed the last scene a lot.[/quote]
I agree lala2. The writers aren’t interested in Sam apparently so I don’t see it happening either. Sad.
No comment on the epi as I saw very little of it.
Not interested in Sam? Is your theory the writers write bad stories for Sam because they just aren’t interested in him? That sounds crazy and an insult to the writers.
I agree. Carver will never allow Sam to have friends because then they would have to write scenes for Sam and the other person bonding. It would give Sam a POV.
Carver can’t have Sam getting that kind of attention. Its scarier then a machete weilding cannabalistic clown.
Clever phrase but completely crazy. Carver and Co. don’t want to give Sam any “attention?” That would be an interesting challenge for them, seeing he is the co-lead of the show.
I dunno, doesn’t it seem like Sam and Cas are also friends at this point? Yeah, Dean has a closer bond but even in season 5 when Anna was going to try and kill/stop Sam from being born Cas refused to go along with her plan because “Sam is my friend”. Even after the whole breaking Sam’s head so to speak followed by Cas taking the crazy onto himself because it was his fault thing they’ve returned to being friends. Of course, we’ll have to see what happens with Cas but …
It would be nice for him to have a friend that’s more his than Dean’s but I’ve never felt the show lacked because of it.
Without quality interaction “Sam is my friend” does not tell me anything about the nature of the friendship or anything about Cas or Sam.
I’m sorry, but as the administator of this site I get to read every single comment. And I’ll tell ya, I’ve read every single complaint in the book.
FINALLY, the show gives us a happy and light hearted episode, nothing heavy on the mytharc at all, no controversial brotherly actions, both of them actually deciding to be together and have fun, and Sam even got into costume! That was a very heavy complaint during the previews.
NOW the complaint is Sam has no friends? Oh please, can’t you just enjoy something for once?
Sorry, I know I’m probably out of line, but geez. I’d love to enjoy my show for once when they do something right.
Oh, for the love, alice. There are 6 or 7 lengthy “loved it” opinions here. No one is telling you you can’t enjoy the show.
When two or three one-line complaints about a specific thing (Sam not having any friends) brings out the administrator hammer, it makes me feel so unwelcome here. This used to be the ONLY balanced site in fandom. What happened?
Hi tigerlily2,
WFB is a Supernatural fan’s haven. This is the most balanced SPN dedicated site IMO…..there is not a close second. The staff here is passionate about our show, and it shows in every comment, review, update, every page they create.
As a WFB member I have to say nothing has happened, the site remains balanced for positive and negative comments. Even our fearless leader Alice will make comments she is passionate about. Her words sum up how I also felt by the ridiculous Sam/Carver comments.
[quote]WFB is a Supernatural fan’s haven. This is the most balanced SPN dedicated site IMO…..there is not a close second. The staff here is passionate about our show, and it shows in every comment, review, update, every page they create.
As a WFB member I have to say nothing has happened, the site remains balanced for positive and negative comments. Even our fearless leader Alice will make comments she is passionate about. Her words sum up how I also felt by the ridiculous Sam/Carver comments.[/quote]
Well said, Nate.
Here, here, I second that emotion.
Nate, you don’t have to explain to me how great this site is. I’ve been here for years. I don’t comment a lot because most of my comments would just be, “Ditto. Loved it.”
Occasionally, I disagree with something someone says, and I post that. I’m not a wholly negative, nor a wholly positive poster.
I don’t feel the need to call others’ opinions “crazy” or “ridiculous” like you did.
I apologize for posting about posts. I should not have done that in this thread, and I won’t do it again.
But I do, after three years of reading here, feel that certain opinions have become unwelcome, and that makes me sad because this is truly the last remaining open forum for intelligent discussion of the show.
Alice, feel free to move or delete this as you see fit. I did not mean to sidetrack discussion of the episode. Which I loved, by the way.
Hi tigerlily2,
Comment from Amy:” Carver will never allow Sam to have friends because then they would have to write scenes for Sam and the other person bonding. It would give Sam a POV. Its scarier then a machete weilding cannabalistic clown.”
Comment from Jo1027:”The writers aren’t interested in Sam apparently so I don’t see it happening either. Sad.”
Mr. Carver and the writers of SPN graduated college, are being paid to do what they are passionate about, write, for a network television show. The above comments are insulting to the writers. The comments ARE crazy and ridiculous in their context. I encourage you, Amy, and Jo1027 to argue those words typed are anything other than that. Sure those comments were emotionally motivated, as they are not happy with the episode or season, but to me they are crazy and ridiculous. They also invoked a response from Alice and others. My opinions are as valid as yours and all others here. You don’t need to apologize for any comments, they are your views. You are the one who accused this site of no longer being balanced. I just expressed my disagreement with your opinion.
Tigerlily2 – I couldn’t agree more w/you.
Tigerlily2 – Normally I discourage posting about posts, but in this case, I started it, so I think I can make an exception. 😉
Disagreement here is fine, and always has been. I’m also pleased to hear you loved the episode.
For those (not you Tigerlily2) that thought I was blasting negative opinions, that’s not true at all. I was blasting a negative observation that really had nothing to do with this episode. It was just a reason to complain about something. If you all notice, I haven’t edited comments either.
No disrespect to tigerlily2 at all… I just wanted to second what our admin is saying. Let’s just enjoy this show. I think that Carver’s been trying to give us some Sam time with the Amelia story, but people aren’t responding to this well. I want to see a happier Sam too, but I have this feeling that he has not fully healed from his Lucifer damage. I’ve even wondered if Luci is still controlled him somehow. I really would love to see Sam and Cas bond. And I think this theme that the writers are exploring – the theme of trying to escape our monsters/our mistakes/etc. but being unable to do so – I think THAT will definitely bring the two of them together. I love Sam (and Dean… and Castiel), and I really look forward to how this will play out in the episodes to come. For now, I just truly enjoyed this episode. My favorite part was the end, when Sam finally dressed up too. It was good fun… good writing… and good brotherly time. Let’s enjoy it!
I second that! It was a fun episode and I feel like I needed it as we’ll after how crazy the last episode ended. I’m interested n seeing where Carver is taking this season and we won’t know until the end. I could be that at the end we’ll all look back and see what he was trying to do and it’ll all make sense. So, far minus Bitten and Heartbreak I’ve liked the way it’s gong so far so willing to be patient and just enjoy this super fun episode!
[quote]I think that Carver’s been trying to give us some Sam time with the Amelia story, but people aren’t responding to this well.[/quote]Problem was not how we responded..It was that I got more of Amelia time and almost no Sam time.[quote] I really would love to see Sam and Cas bond.[/quote]I would like to see Sam react with anyone.There were two geeks on the show after season 5 and both of them bonded with Dean.
You took that as an admin lowering a hammer? Heck, admins have opinions too! I’m allowed to express frustration here and there like everyone else. You’re also judging the balance of this site from one comment? I think you need to just read the volumes posted on this site daily to know it’s very balanced thank you.
I’m working on an article, possibly let’s discuss, where the oversensitivity of this fandom often drives me and other fans crazy. Me thinks I have another example for my postulations.
Sounds like a really interesting article. Will it be published here?
Yes. I just haven’t figured out the angle I want to take with it yet.
[quote]Oh, for the love, alice. There are 6 or 7 lengthy “loved it” opinions here. No one is telling you you can’t enjoy the show.
When two or three one-line complaints about a specific thing (Sam not having any friends) brings out the administrator hammer, it makes me feel so unwelcome here. This used to be the ONLY balanced site in fandom. What happened?[/quote]
I agree with you, [b]tigerlily2[/b]. There will always be opinions that annoy us. However, those opinions may have merit and may be valid to the next guy, and in any case, there’s no reason to allow any of them to spoil one’s enjoyment of the show. Once we start reviewing fellow posters’ opinions rather than the series, the whole discussion goes south. The fact that people of many different outlooks — even gloomy ones — feel welcome to post here is a very valuable thing.
RMF, in this instance, these posts alone aren’t ruining my enjoyment of the show. It’s the constant repetitive complaints on every single thread from many of these individuals. That’s what’s killing me! I swear I read hundreds of these posts a week. So here’s what I finally perceive to be a safe haven and nope, they’ve found a way to complain about this too instead of giving constructive posts about the episode.
There’s only three people that should be reviewing other people’s posts here, and that’s three admins. It’s kind of our job when things get out of hand. We don’t make a habit of it, but it happens from time to time. So try not to take what one admin says and throw it into a general argument about expression. What you said is very true, I just don’t think it applies in this one particular case.
Agree with you 100% Alice.
This was classic Supernatural. This was a MOTW episode, but had what I love about the best MOTW.
We start in the Impala with the boys talking about where they are at (in the Season). I love Dean suggesting they get out for some fun. Gears swith to a case, unrelated to the tablets. Great Garth shout-out too.
The LARPing world was perfection. I love the call out on the FBI badges and cheap suits! Go figure the first time (I recall) someone instantly recognizing they are fake–nice touch 8 Seasons in. Charlie is perhaps my favorite all-time guest character. PLEASE bring her back soon. Major kudos to SPN for creating a GLBT character that just “is.”
Charlie and Dean’s relationship is a highlight. And the great character development with the boys on a MOTW episode, brilliant. I loved the moments with them at the end of the episode, and the final scene was an instant classic.
This was one of the funnest episodes of SPN in a long time, one of the best “light” episodes in the series IMHO, with classic SPN touches. I am not on Team Sam or Team Dean, I don’t see two sides. So many comments on WFB talk about Sam always getting the short end of the writer’s pen. I don’t see that. If a SPN fan cannot enjoy last’s night gem, well that’s too bad.
Thanks, it’s always good to know I’m not alone in my thinking at times.
Nate and Alice: You are definitely not alone. I so agree with you. I find it hard to read the Dean vs. Sam posts after every episode. Anyway I loved this week’s episode. I needed the respite after the intensity of “Torn and Frayed”. Can’t wait for next week to meet a Winchester relative!
Yep, not alone, I’m getting a little tired of this stance, that the writers aren’t giving anything for Sam to do, but be wallpaper? I’m loving this season, and I respect the writers enough to give them the benefit of the doubt. Are all episodes created equal? Hell no, but I’m liking where the season is going, absolutely.
[quote]I’m sorry, but as the administator of this site I get to read every single comment. And I’ll tell ya, I’ve read every single complaint in the book.
FINALLY, the show gives us a happy and light hearted episode, nothing heavy on the mytharc at all, no controversial brotherly actions, both of them actually deciding to be together and have fun, and Sam even got into costume! That was a very heavy complaint during the previews.
NOW the complaint is Sam has no friends? Oh please, can’t you just enjoy something for once?
Sorry, I know I’m probably out of line, but geez. I’d love to enjoy my show for once when they do something right.[/quote]
[quote]I’m sorry, but as the administator of this site I get to read every single comment. And I’ll tell ya, I’ve read every single complaint in the book.
FINALLY, the show gives us a happy and light hearted episode, nothing heavy on the mytharc at all, no controversial brotherly actions, both of them actually deciding to be together and have fun, and Sam even got into costume! That was a very heavy complaint during the previews.
NOW the complaint is Sam has no friends? Oh please, can’t you just enjoy something for once?
Sorry, I know I’m probably out of line, but geez. I’d love to enjoy my show for once when they do something right.[/quote]
Alice, thank you so very much, you just wrote what I was thinking….
My opinion, I’m enjoying this show much more than ever…
Loved the episode, having a great time this season, so far nobody in the show has disappointed me…
Is is perfect??? Sorry, it has never been…
But, even not being perfect, it is the PERFECT show for me.
Take care, and Ardeospina (hope I got it correctly) as usual I love your comments…
Cla; }
Thanks Clarice! No show is perfect, but as long as we get entertainment value, it’s all good.
[quote]I’m sorry, but as the administator of this site I get to read every single comment. And I’ll tell ya, I’ve read every single complaint in the book.
FINALLY, the show gives us a happy and light hearted episode, nothing heavy on the mytharc at all, no controversial brotherly actions, both of them actually deciding to be together and have fun, and Sam even got into costume! That was a very heavy complaint during the previews.
NOW the complaint is Sam has no friends? Oh please, can’t you just enjoy something for once?
Sorry, I know I’m probably out of line, but geez. I’d love to enjoy my show for once when they do something right.[/quote]
I’m with you, Alice. I tend to be a Sam girl, but I was thinking the same thing. A light hearted, fun episode where we got both guys in dress-up and Sam in a pony-tail? 😮 Not exactly something to complain about.
Dean in a wig, Sam in a pony-tail. As I said on Twitter last night, I can finally die happy. 😆
I second this comment, Alice! We can die happy and blissful together! lol 🙂
[quote]I second this comment, Alice! We can die happy and blissful together! lol :-)[/quote]
Couldn’t agree more, that scene alone was awesome, just thinking about it, it gets me laughing out loud all over again.
Sam in a ponytail… I MELTED.
Alice I can only imagine, and I share your sentiments. However, perhaps the issue is not the fact that there are complaints, but rather that they are being voiced on the wrong page. I believe we have a bitterness thread for that.
[quote]Alice I can only imagine, and I share your sentiments. However, perhaps the issue is not the fact that there are complaints, but rather that they are being voiced on the wrong page. I believe we have a bitterness thread for that.[/quote]
I dont know is it not a Let’s Speculate thread not specifically a episode review thread?.
I thought the episode its self was ok and enjoyable and I really like Charlie but I thought it was designed for Dean more than anything.
Bamboo 24 -I don’t know, Let’s Speculate articles are usually free zones. If this was an episode review article, I would agree, but in this case, people can post what they want within the parameters of the rules. It doesn’t make it less annoying, but they are allowed. It works the other way too. If someone wants to make a complaint that is stretching things too far, I can call them out on it.
Ah, I was thinking of it as an episode thread for some reason. Thanks for clarifying!
I´m sorry alice, I feel kinda responsible for bringing up the “Sam has no friends” subject.
As I said, I liked this episode a lot and I explained why, but I think it´s very natural and understable not liking everything about an episode (not since season 5 anyway). Every episode has its good and bad things. Even if I´m not enjoying this season in general I can appreciate the good things delivered even in the episodes which have pissed me off royally (*cough* Bitten *cough*). I think it´s good to be critical, but I can also see your point because a lot of people (me included) we are frustrated with the show right now and you have to read all the negative comments. I´ve been avoiding this and others websites in order to keep my mental health cause the bitterness was depressing me, but I can understand your point because you, as an administrator, can´t escape from that.
So yes, after all the conflict and sadness and frustration from earlier episodes maybe we should focus on the good things, but we have to respect those who didn´t like it as well…
No need to apologize Emmanuel, you did nothing wrong! You made an observation (and a darn good one), and suddenly a bunch of people that have routinely been complaining about Sam’s story line on other threads jumped on this with off the wall comments about Sam having no friends. Huh? That is hardly reflective of this episode. It’s people looking to complain and cause trouble.
I’m all for sharing opinions but that was not the intent of those posts.
This may get me in trouble, but should people’s opinions be referred to as “off the wall?” Should someone w/an minority opinion be viewed as “complaining just to complain” or “trying to cause trouble?”
I cannot speak for [b]Tigerlily[/b]2, but I can say such comments by an admin, to me, makes it seem like opinions that go against the grain are not appreciated or allowed here.
I read your post, Alice, as basically saying no one should have any reason to complain about this episode of Supernatural. It’s great that you loved it, but not everyone will feel the same. That’s just the way it is.
I’m not sure why Emmanuel apologized since I was the one who said Sam didn’t have very many friends. That’s how I feel. I’m sure you disagree, which is fine, but there is nothing wrong or invalid about my opinion. I don’t think Sam has any friends on this show, and I wish I could see him bond w/a guest star or some of the recurring characters. That’s just my opinion. I’m not forcing it on anyone. Not a single person has to agree w/me. It’s just how I feel.
don’t think there is anything wrong w/my opinion, and I’m sorry but how can you say what my intent was? And what type of trouble are you saying I wanted to cause? I’m confused. How can I cause trouble with an opinion? No offense to you – but I have no idea what you’re talking about. I made a comment; that’s all.
Anyways, I’ll leave everyone to their “squee.”
Since this thread is to speculate, I’m confused over the friend count of Sam and Dean. If the though here is that Dean has a long list of friends becasue of Benny, well that’s one. I would say Sam and Dean share the same list of friends, but Benny is Dean’s +1. Sure Dean and Cas are closer, but that is not because the writers like Dean more, it’s just true to the character of Dean. And Cas and Sam ARE friends, not BFFs like Dean and Cas, but they are friends. I can’t think of another charcter that is “friends” with Dean and not Sam. They’re kind of a package deal.
totally agree with this. IMO Sam has never seemed the type who actively seeks out human connections. I think Dean’s personality naturally inclines towards strong male partnerships (that provide an avenue to demonstrate trust and loyalty, something he has been desperate to own since the strega incident), whilst Sams’ naturally inclines towards solitude, so I don’t see the ‘Sam has no friends’ as a valid gripe.
[quote]I think Dean’s personality naturally inclines towards strong male partnerships (that provide an avenue to demonstrate trust and loyalty, something he has been desperate to own since the strega incident), whilst Sams’ naturally inclines towards solitude, so I don’t see the ‘Sam has no friends’ as a valid gripe.[/quote]
[quote]”I can’t think of another charcter [sic] that is “friends” with Dean and not Sam. They’re kind of a package deal.”[/quote]
Agree with both of these.
[quote][quote]I think Dean’s personality naturally inclines towards strong male partnerships (that provide an avenue to demonstrate trust and loyalty, something he has been desperate to own since the strega incident), whilst Sams’ naturally inclines towards solitude, so I don’t see the ‘Sam has no friends’ as a valid gripe.[/quote]
[quote]”I can’t think of another charcter [sic] that is “friends” with Dean and not Sam. They’re kind of a package deal.”[/quote]
Yes sadly now they are but I dont agree with the idea that Dean’s friend is Sam’s friend so thats good enough .
It is IMO only a invalid gripe if you believe that Sam who by the way easily made friends at collage , sort human contact in season 1 and 2 , sort genuine love from someone in Amelia should be given just a friend of Dean’s so by association they are Sam’s when none are the slightest interested in Sam or how he feels.
I’m confused on why you think I have an invalid gripe. Other than Benny, I can’t name one friend Dean is friends with that is not a friend of Sam’s. And I can’t think of a character that is friends with Dean who at the same time hasn’t the slighest interest in Sam, and does not care how he feels. I think my comments are valid. And my comments were not a complaint/gripe, the boys are pretty much a package deal, from what we’ve seen the last 8 years. There’s nothing wrong with that when you’re saving the world.
[quote]I’m confused on why you think I have an invalid gripe. Other than Benny, I can’t name one friend Dean is friends with that is not a friend of Sam’s. And I can’t think of a character that is friends with Dean who at the same time hasn’t the slighest interest in Sam, and does not care how he feels. I think my comments are valid. And my comments were not a complaint/gripe, the boys are pretty much a package deal, from what we’ve seen the last 8 years. There’s nothing wrong with that when you’re saving the world.[/quote]
I never said you had a invalid gripe my post wasnt even directed at you if it was I would of put your name first in fact I hadnt even read your post it was in fact in reference to something Kaz1 said so I have no idea why you posted this. I have never said anybody has a invalid point so you have left me just as confused. 😕
And we all have valid views even if we disagree or agree .However seeing though this is getting abit off topic and I did enjoy the episode I shall leave it there.
Hi Sharon,
You included a quote from my comments (“I can’t think of another charcter [sic] that is “friends” with Dean and not Sam. They’re kind of a package deal.”) and then your comment was:”It is IMO only a invalid gripe if you believe….should be given just a friend of Dean’s so by association they are Sam’s when none are the slightest interested in Sam or how he feels.”
I am one who does believe the boys share friends. Sam has friends. Other than Benny, if Sam and Dean each made a list of “These are my Friends,” they would be the same. And that is OK. We are a bit off topic here, but I have not seen anyone on the Team Friendless Sam follow this thought up with any examples of why they think this.
[quote]Hi Sharon,
You included a quote from my comments (“I can’t think of another charcter [sic] that is “friends” with Dean and not Sam. They’re kind of a package deal.”) and then your comment was:”It is IMO only a invalid gripe if you believe….should be given just a friend of Dean’s so by association they are Sam’s when none are the slightest interested in Sam or how he feels.”
I am one who does believe the boys share friends. Sam has friends. Other than Benny, if Sam and Dean each made a list of “These are my Friends,” they would be the same. And that is OK. We are a bit off topic here, but I have not seen anyone on the Team Friendless Sam follow this thought up with any examples of why they think this.[/quote]
I have spoken about this once so like I said I will leave it there 🙂
[quote]They’re kind of a package deal.[/quote]Friends should have more than one sentence declarations.Demonstrate Sam’s friendships , bonds..I don’t think it is too much to ask.Have Sam voice his opinions about Dean to his friends. We have seen Dean do it with a demon also.
Quote from Sharon
[quote]Sam who by the way easily made friends at collage , sort human contact in season 1 and 2 , sort genuine love from someone in Amelia should be given just a friend of Dean’s so by association they are Sam’s when none are the slightest interested in Sam or how he feels.[/quote]
I think you are right that he did make friends easily at uni. However IMO he had much less to worry about back then and was just a kid; Jess’s death and his good friend’s (not sure of his name… Brad? I think… smarmy horrible demon) involvement in it changed all that. I feel his natural tendency is to be self-reliant though. Even as a kid he ran away and stayed in a cabin alone, the heaven scene depicts him being very happy in his solitude. I don’t see the writers having changed that about his personality and IMO have kept this personality trait fairly consistent throughout the seasons. I actually like this trait in him; he is a good balance to Dean’s brash extrovert style. So I think he doesn’t have a need to actively seek out friendships like Dean does because the writers are staying true to his personality.
[quote]heaven scene depicts him being very happy in his solitude.[/quote]But also that he was happy with having a thanksgiving with a family.What i saw was in pre-stanford days were Dean wanted connections which were not deep but fleeting and sam wanted lasting connections (outside the hunting lifestyle)
Yes, I think you’re right here, Sam wanted that human connection, but I don’t think this is indicative of his natural trait. Psychological hypotheses always postulates over the nature/nuture debate and I think this is well illustrated here. His experiences had him seeking answers to what family meant because he knew he was different. However his personality trait prevented him from turning to drugs say (hope that makes sense to you).
The ep you’re referring to has him sitting down to thanksgiving if my memory serves (never sure about thanksgiving BTW is it like a Christmas thing?). To psychologise the scene I would say he was trying to establish what ‘normal’ was. He was old enough at that point to know he lead a seriously marginalised life and IMO he was trying to establish what ‘normal’ was not trying to make friends with brace face ( 😉 )
What do you think?
And if anyone mentions Sam being ‘high’ on demon blood as indicative of drug addiction, I have one phrase “to save the world”
[quote]And if anyone mentions Sam being ‘high’ on demon blood as indicative of drug addiction, I have one phrase “to save the world”[/quote]
Hi Kaz1 – I think it’s a little of both. Sam started out wanting to save the world, but it did get to the point where he couldn’t stop drinking the demon blood of his own power, which does indeed allude to an addiction. Case in point, in “Monster at the End of the This Book” Sam has that conversation with Chuck where he says he wished to god he could stop drinking the blood, but he couldn’t. Also case in point, every statement Sam made saying, “I need it,” and every time he went without blood enduring horrible withdrawals to “detox” – this also alludes to an addiction. So, yes, Sam started drinking the demon blood to save the world, but he did get ‘high’ off the power of it, and it unfortunately became an addiction, just as I’m sure Ruby knew it would.
[quote]His experiences had him seeking answers to what family meant because he knew he was different. However his personality trait prevented him from turning to drugs say (hope that makes sense to you).
The ep you’re referring to has him sitting down to thanksgiving if my memory serves…I would say he was trying to establish what ‘normal’ was. He was old enough at that point to know he lead a seriously marginalised life and IMO he was trying to establish what ‘normal’ was…[/quote]
This is a great analysis of Sam, kaz1. 🙂
I see the “drugs” reference now – I read this post after your later one, so I think my comment may have been completely misunderstanding your post. I don’t know, some comments pop in my inbox, and others don’t! 😛
I think it would be so if Sam was not so readily sympathizing with monsters or humans alike.
Not sure what you mean here AnonymousN. Do you mean sympathising in terms of wanting to save humans , so cannot establish friendships? Sometimes the posts jumps ahead a few, so not sure if it’s in reference to the above.
[quote]They’re kind of a package deal.[/quote]I disagree.
[quote]Sam has never seemed the type who actively seeks out human connections.[/quote]Actually he seemed that type if after school special is anything to go by and Dean the opposite.
This is for AnonymousN (in case it jumps over a few posts)
Yes, but IMO he formed a friendship with a kid that was also marginalised (hope this is the right ep, are you referring to the school where that teacher was nice to Sam?), so maybe a little projection going on there.
I do believe though that his natural personality trait is more intrinsically introverted. However, his lifelong negative experiences intensified this trait which made him more self-reliant (many introverts are wonderfully self-reliant) which in turn shaped his reluctance in seeking out new relationships. I would also like to mention that he has been rewarded in the past for the manifestations of this trait (most introverts love solitude and use this time to read, research, become very knowledgeable on particular interests etc., just like Sam), so he became ‘the brains of the outfit’. I don’t get the impression that this bothers him though. In fact in many ways I think he and Dean are very aware that it has contributed to his and his brother’s survival.
What I am hearing through Samcentric fans though, is that Dean gets to communicate his POV to the audience because of the conversations with his friends, and because Sam has very few friends, we don’t get to hear his POV at all, and I think you have a point.
I am Samcentric fan.I will tell you what i think.Dean has friends with whom he talks about Sam,He has interactions with Demons,humans and angels where he puts forth his views about his future, about Sam etc.What does this do -It gets us inside Dean’s head.Sam could have had a meaningful conversation with Frank or Garth or Charlie…with Frank and Charlie it was Dean and with Garth it was sam phasing out.What I am trying to say is this is a show.That means there are writers who decide how the characters act ,with whom they interact…Cas is Dean’s special friend…What happens in this case is Dean and Cas have conversations and Sam who is also a “friend” gets throw away lines .Benny is Dean’s friend and because of him we learned something about Dean actually a lot.But with Amelia we learned more about Amelia.The only character who had some interaction with Sam was Sheriff Jody Mills.God alone knows when I will see her next.After Dean punches Baltar till the fairy vanishes Sam is not there in one frame (I think this is the right word) Why?Some times the choices seem deliberate .
introverts may not have many friends but they treasure the friends they have.Can the writers not have one character who Sam speaks to about Dean and about what happened.Dean got to tell it to Charlie who does Sam tell it to?
I really do think you have a point regarding this issue. I did enjoy 8×10 when Dean drives to Kermit Texas to confront Sam and where Sam explains to Dean how the text brought back all the Jessica fears; to me that whole scene was from Sam’s perspective, so maybe his POV is not as overtly explained, but it is still there at times. But I hear you on the friendship issue. I remember he used to talk to Bobby at times, and it struck me even then that this didn’t happen too often where Sam was concerned. Looking right back to season 1 however, I don’t see him opening up to anyone very often, even when he had opportunity, so maybe it’s canon, am not sure. Can you remember the scene with Ruby when he discussed how he hoped he and Dean could get back to what they were before! That was pure gold to me and heartbreaking at the same time, even though he was on the wrong path, the audience could sympathise because his thoughts and fears were made audible. I felt I knew Sam better back then.
However, I read somewhere that the latter half of the season is going to be told more from Sam’s POV, (not sure where I read that, I think it may be in Laura Poudom’s? blog), so here is hoping the PTB don’t let us down.
kaz1, I don’t think it is canon, because he obviously talked to Jessica, he talked to Meg in Scarecrow. He called his dad in Faith and had a heart to heart with him in Salvation. He talked a little about his fears to Sarah. But mostly he talked to Dean. He was always pushing Dean to talk the first 3 seasons and Dean would push Sam, well at least to talk about Sam.
But after Dean got back from Hell, Sam had all kinds of secrets. All of which he knew Dean wouldn’t approve. So he talked to Ruby and she manipulated him. He did tell Chuck about his fears about the demon blood. But his talks with Dean became further and further apart as their relationship got rockier. And S5, he definitely became self-contained and he pretty stop talking at all, unless it was about his mistakes and wanting to fix them. And unfortunately that trend continued through most of S6 and S7 and now S8.
There are exceptions of course. But the are few and usually limited to whatever his issue was that year.
I read that about Sam’s POV too and I saw some tweets posted in an online article from someone involved in the show that 8.14 was going to have a big convo. between the bros. So I hope that means something.
there has been no such spoilers, Laura said that we would aparently be getting more into Sam’s story/perception but it was in reference to episodes 9 and 10.
My guess is now that Sam is all in on the hunt his storyline is pretty much done. I kinda feel like he’s gone round in a circle and come back out where he was last season when he was all about the hunt (disregarding the few episodes where his hell memories actually affacted him).
That sounds more like the Supernatural I’ve come to expect! LOL!
Hades and Lala2, I’m not so sure about the merry-go-Sam roundabout. As I read more JCarver background, he seems to be up for the job on the long-term arc. He apparently mentioned that the second half of the season is going to be more Sam oriented. So with a Pandora’s box jampacked to the brim with hope, I think he has this arc extending over to season 10. So maybe the Sam storyline is being set up to have more relevance in the longterm.
I get a feeling however that he is burying the brothers past mistakes and having Sam & Dean move on together. The fact that they both seem willing to sacrifice and also acknowledge what the other needs is a good start, so not so much the merry-go-brothers but in fact the brothers getting off. Typed this super fast so hope it makes sense
kaz1 I like you brought up the point about Jeremy Carver and the longterm. One thing that has been mentioned this season is how slow it has been. I think at times some of the story could have been quicker paced, but I see each episode as the chapter of a book. In this age we want everything now, face paced, answers answers answers. I believe this season has been so consistent (including BITTEN!), I am willing to let Carver and Co. take their time. I want to get to Season 10!
[quote]so maybe a little projection going on there. [/quote]Or may be not.There is nothing concrete there.He made a connection with the teacher there.It need not be character which will appear again but the teacher-Sam interactions showed brilliantly the how resigned he was and the spark of hope at the end.The writers are capable but they are not doing anything with their capability.
AnonymousN
Hopefully the writers will prove their writing capability by bringing into focus Sam’s POV in the second half of the season. Have discussed this a few posts above. Difficult to do this when posts jump all over the place so hope you can keep track of my thoughts 😆 .
[quote]What I am hearing through Samcentric fans though, is that Dean gets to communicate his POV to the audience because of the conversations with his friends, and because Sam has very few friends, we don’t get to hear his POV at all, and I think you have a point.[/quote]
I considered myself to be Bibro (still kinda cringe at that term) and I didn’t really have an issue so much with this episode, but that is the reason for my sometimes frustration with Sam’s “lack of friends”. I’m really hoping that there is a reason for Sam’s lack of POV (like in S4).
There have been many times in this season alone that I felt that Sam would have been the better person to talk to someone. IE Kevin ep. 1, I thought when Dean left the car to go talk to Benny that Sam would connect with Kevin on the fact that they’d both lost girlfriends to demons. I will say he did talk to him a little earlier in the episode which was good but I felt a loss of the scene at the end.
I agree, that Cas is friends with both of them but I can only think of one scene where they really talked without Dean, well 2 if you count the scene where Cas goes and gets Sam in Torn and Frayed. Even Bobby and Sam had a very limited number of heart to heart. Garth talked to both this last time, which I really liked, but really more him talking to Sam. Amelia was her talking to Sam about her.
Now sometimes conversations take on dual meaning, like Sam’s with Mike Farrell’s character. But I don’t think most of Amelia’s convo’s fit that. Because she talked about running so that she wouldn’t be pitied by friends and family. But Sam had NO ONE to pity him. So that was just about her.
I have to agree the only recurring character that seems to have more of a connection to Sam than Dean is Jody Mills.
Nate, unfortunately, I couldn’t PM you but want to answer your question.
Honestly, Nate, it was just a comment. It wasn’t meant to cause trouble or to be off topic or anything. It was a thought I had when reading Emmanuel’s comment about wishing Sam had bonded more w/Charlie. It’s been my experience that posters’ responses usually flow from the comments they’ve read. That’s how I’ve responded int the past. That’s how I responded here. Nothing more. Nothing less. I certainly had no hidden agenda to disrupt the board or upset people with my “negativity.” I have a life. I discuss the show online b/c it’s usually fun, and I like to read different perspectives. I honestly wasn’t aware my one remark would cause such a fuss and ruffle so many feathers. So, that’s why I wrote what I did.
As far as what I wrote. What can I say? I don’t think Sam has many friends on the show – past or present, and I don’t consider Dean’s friends to be Sam’s friends. There are many reasons I feel this way, but I won’t go into them on this board.
Again, that’s just my opinion. No one has to share it or agree with it.
[b]DISCLAIMER[/b]: I tried to put all this behind spoiler tags so those who wouldn’t want to read my comments wouldn’t have to, but it wouldn’t work. I just wanted to answer Nate’s question. I will be backing out of the thread now.
Hi lala2,
I respect your comments. I don’t consider anything you wrote as negative, just a different opinion as mine. I will agree to disagree. It is fun to share differnt opinions, I hope we continue to see yours.
Alice – Just so you know I agree with you entirely. Some just won’t have fun in any way, no matter what is written. We can’t do anything about it for them so why bother? I’m sorry, but they just see through the glass darkly. It used to be called “a bee in their bonnet”.
All I do is, when I can see which way the post is going, is go on to the next one.
If that makes me a self-righteous Pollyanna (as I was called once here) so be it. Don’t care. Life’s too short to be down because of someone else’s viewpoint.
I know I will watch this one again and again in the future and enjoy it for the fun it is, just like I continually enjoy “Hell House” for the brothers and the fun. 😛
Just chalk it up to “You can’t please everyone!”. I see it as there are hundreds of thousands of people that are actually watching the show; but only a handful that comment (and/or complain). some people want it their way, or no way at all. They can’t see the “big picture”-tunnel vision. Sadly, this will never change because it makes them happy. **This is not aimed at anyone who commented here. This is just an “in general” statement.** (although some will take it that way anyway)
OH, and NEITHER of them have any friends!!! Kinda the whole point of last weeks episode. Only each other, again.
Well I will make a general statement just because someone sees a situation differently does not mean they cant see the big picture or its a spn version of a tunnel vision or they do not know what they are talking about or they have got it so dramatically wrong they must be crazy.
I happen to like this episode I am not of the opinion it is a gem or the greatest episode but it was enjoyable it doesnt change my thoughts that Sam’s story was poorly told but this was a light fluffy trifle of a episode that just filled a hole.
I thought this episode was just okay. It wasn’t as good as CYHIYB or some of the other comedy ones, but it was all right.
I didn’t hate it or anything, but as you said, my thoughts on Sam haven’t changed as a result of this episode.
I did find it interesting that Jared showed more spark and had more chemistry w/that random girl in a 2-3 minute scene than in any of his scenes w/LB’s Amelia! What’s that about?
I agree with the random girl that was throwing herself at Sam. I was hoping to see him take her up on her offer, but I guess it was too soon after Amelia. The more Sam and Amelia played out, the more I liked it (saying that I hope we never see Amelia again, for story purpose). I think Sam realized they were lost souls who helped each other during a very low time, but their story was not one to end up together. My favorite Amelia moments were in Torn 7 Frayed, and part of me did feel bad for her seeing the empty room, but had Sam been there, it would not have been long before eventually they broke up (or she was killed or mind erased). Props for TPTB trying, it didn’t quite work, but the resolution did have somewhat of an emotional payoff.
I didn’t really warm to Amelia, but I must admit the lighting and music as she closed the door at the end… was heart wrenching.
I have held all along to the fact that it was really only loss that connected them. Well that and Sam’s need to fulfil his desire for a normal life. However, even though everyone knew it was never going to last longterm, I am glad that the writers were sensitive to Sam’s deep sense of loss in this ep and to Dean’s acknowledgement of it.
I’m curious what do you mean by the relationship having and emotional payoff?
I agree, wasn’t that scene filmed so well? I also agree loss was their main and strongest connection. What I meant by emotional payoff was more my reaction, the Sam and Amelia story was a bit slow and not my favorite, but seeing it as a whole how it played out, I like it more overall. I felt bad for Amelia walking into the empty room, and I feel bad for Sam too, yes he made the right choice, but it still hurts. I agree too I was very glad to see Dean acknowledge the pain Sam must be feeling. If I had not cared for that story at all, I would have been cheering when Amelia opened the door to the empty room. I was suprised at how moved I was by that scene, her sadness, and Sam’s. The emotional payoff for me was I felt emotion, if that makes sense. I’m very glad it was a part of LARP, but I do hope we don’t see Amelia again, it’s played out.
I agree with you both about that last scene with Amelia. Although I never really cared for her that much, her look at the end was pure gold. Her face reminded me of the Mona Lisa! I really felt bad for her. 😥
[quote]wasn’t that scene filmed so well?[/quote]yes
[quote]were sensitive to Sam’s deep sense of loss in this ep and to Dean’s acknowledgement of it[/quote]agree
[quote]The more Sam and Amelia played out, the more I liked it [/quote]Me too but I want to see Amelia again.
I put that down to the context of Sam and Amelia’s relationship, it was built on two people trying to escape a loss and hurt so deep they couldnt cope. They were two people running from their problems, finding each other and clinging to each other like life rafts. It wasnt a happy and exciting love, it was sad and desperate. Comes back to what Jared said about the relationship not being all sunshine and lollipops. It was more like two people clinging to each other for dear life.
With the tech tent girl She wasnt coming from a sad place (as far as we know) and she and Sam met under a lot better conditions, Sam wasnt broken by the death of his brother in that moment. The moment was relatively happy? though Sam was sad at hi loss it wasnt anywhere near the loss he had suffered when he lost Dean. Had it been a few more months down the line I think Sam may have taken her up on her offer?
[quote]it doesnt change my thoughts that Sam’s story was poorly told but this was a light fluffy trifle of a episode that just filled a hole.[/quote]agree
[quote]They can’t see the “big picture”-tunnel vision.[/quote]They just don’t see the ame “big picture” that you do.[quote]Sadly, this will never change because it makes them happy.[/quote]Yes, right, “their” comments are brimming with the happiness “they” feel.
[quote]NOW the complaint is Sam has no friends? [/quote]
Charlie & Sam will always be friends because they bonded over Harry Potter the last time they met (and he carried her out of harm’s way). Charlie and Dean will always be friends because they bonded over a porn star 😛
But seriously Alice, I don’t get the Sam vs Dean thing either; or the counting up of how many times one gets a better scene/story. I’m sure most of us have a favourite brother… mine happens to be Sam… but the bottom line is that it’s a show two brothers. Last week I was sad for both of them; and last night I was overjoyed for both of them. Such a fun episode… Best ending ever 😆
[quote]and Sam even got into costume![/quote]I am sorry Alice. The biggest plus point is Sam and Dean got to have fun.I will feel better only and only if there is a episode where only and only Sam gets the costume.[quote]NOW the complaint is Sam has no friends?[/quote]It is not something which we just felt now.Every episode I go to see whether there is a character with whom Sam will share his views about Dean, a sympathetic ear. But till now the show has not furnished that for Sam.It is not too late yet that is the only consolation.
I guess Sam has got to trust and be open to someone again besides Dean (and not even Dean, most of the time). Apparently, after Ruby, he’s got some trouble trusting anyone. He didn’t really trust Amelia, and he wasn’t prepared to accept the blonde girl flirtation in this last episode.
Let’s not forget that S05 it was Sam’s redemption arc, half S06 he had no soul thus his PVO was not real Sam, the 2nd half os S06 he had a wall in his brain with which he was struggling and most of S07 he was a total hallucinating nuts. Not the best frame to make new friends.
My hope is that S08 these things will be repaired. We are one that path, so fingers crossed!
[quote]I guess Sam has got to trust and be open to someone again besides Dean[/quote]and I am of the belief that the writers are capable of furnishing Sam with such a character or a bonding moment…but they are not doing it…so I am confused,frustrated.
I understand what you’re feeling, anonymousN, I want that too! As I said before, I’m hopeful the writers are trying to restore the brothers’ bond without all that ugly, heavy baggage between them AND a lighter feel that will allow them to bond and make friends with others, including Sam.
But it is a process, not a magic heal (which is good, IMO), so I’m willing to be patient.
Quote from AnonymousN
[quote]I am sorry Alice. The biggest plus point is Sam and Dean got to have fun.I will feel better only and only if there is a episode where only and only Sam gets the costume.[/quote]
This was a big plus point IMO that they both got into costume at the end. The fact that Dean was sensitive to Sam’s loss and that Sam was sensitive to what was important to BOTH of them, demonstrates both character development for them both as well as them [i]both[/i] actively trying to heal the relationship (A lot of ‘both’s’ I know, but this indicates positive growth [i]together[/i])
I feel there is too much water under the bridge now to make attempts at having either Sam or Dean exonerated for their past mistakes, and they both have made many (but whose counting, coz we love them both right!). IMO part of moving on is to drop the ‘whose been victimised the most’ notch board into the nearest rubbish bin and deal with the here and now, which I feel the writers are doing.
If Sam and Dean are attempting to do this than the least the fans can do is follow suit. (well I hope they are coz then this is going to come back and bite me on the buttocks)
Thank you for the very nice review. It’s tone was in keeping with the episode itself.
This was definitely one of the most enjoyable episodes we’ve seen in a long time. Just pure entertainment.
I thought Dean looked more like Jensen Ackles than Dean Winchester here — smiles, grins, and maybe again soon a real belly laugh.
That was absolutely awesome! 😀 I’m still geeking out over it. Both Sam & Dean in facepaint & swords, oh my. 😳 And Dean’s speech at the end. The only one he knows, Ha. I love that speech, “Braveheart” is one of my favourite movies. The guy being drawn and quartered, yuck! The gore factor has certainly gone up.
I think the guy that played the sheriff was the same actor from “Home” that played John Winchester’s partner at the garage. What say you all?
Charlie’s line to the fairie: I’m just a girl, standing in front of a monster, asking it not to kill her! OMG, “Notting Hill”, I would so get along with Charlie. And yes, I was glad she managed to get some kissy time with that fairie.
Dean & Charlie together, so cute. They would be good friends, they think alike. Dean opening up to her and she telling him that what he did was a dick move, and then being perceptive enough to see that something quite similar had happened to Dean. Oh yeah, I like her. They even watch the same porn stars! 😀
Okay, that’s enough, obviously I really loved this episode, so I’ll shut up now. 😉
[b]Sylvie[/b], good spot on the actor playing the sherriff. It was driving me potty trying to figure out how I knew his face 🙄
I watched this episode with my hands over my eyes, and my cheeks blushing a few times, because I’ve LARPed and I’ve tabletop gamed and I’m a SciFi Geek, so I just felt a little embarrassed when Sam and Dean were reacting negatively to the LARPing at the beginning of the episode. Plus, I remembered how much I disliked the episode where Dean and Sam went to a Supernatural convention and met cosplayers. To be honest, for me this episode hit too close to home and I would prefer the writers not try and break the 4th wall and get involved in fandom. However, having said that, this episode improved for me by the end when I saw Dean getting into LARPing and having some fun – that made it feel the tone of the ep was somewhat less negative.
There were definite in-jokes for fans (I spotted Felicia’s Dragonage character on screen in the Tech Tent and that made me smile) and I must say that Dean leading a battle while dressed in a blond wig and facepaint is an image that will stay with me for the rest of my life LOL.
I just didn’t like the dialogue that sometimes criticised escapism through geekery (for me, the SPN writers have a dodgy record on slagging off fandom via 4th wall episodes and I’m never sure whether they do it affectionately or whether it’s a joke with a jag in it). Having said all of that, it was great to see Felicia Day again (I always enjoy seeing her on screen) and I hope she’ll turn up as a guest star again in future episodes.
I was glad that the brothers seemed to be trying to get along with each other better, I just hope this isn’t all the screentime the writers will devote to patching up Sam and Dean’s relationship – I’d like to see the brothers talking about things properly: I’m a sucker for the big emotional conversations (and Winchester wall-slamming) 😀
PS It just occurred to me to wonder where on earth the LARPers found a costume to fit Sam Winchester, Sasquatch extraordinaire, in such a short space of time 😆
I come from a similar place like you. I DO larp, I´m pretty geeky myself and I was terrified of the episode.
Granted, German LARP is a bit different than LARP in the US, but still… I was deathly afraid they would make fun of us and it would be hurtful.
Thank god, it didn´t.
It was just the typical reaction: LARP? Yeah sure.. you´re weird.
And once they see it, and try it… they´re stuck and it´s just fun and a holiday from yourself.
And that´s pretty much, what I took home from the episode.
Though the depiction of the fair (and especially the Shadow orcs and the ogre) made me cringe a little here and there.
But I want that red top, that Charlie wore.
Tech tent? REALLY?! The heck!
[b]Fluffy[/b], I know what you mean: trying to explain RPG of any kind, to folks who don’t know what it is, can result in those reactions you mentioned. But, like Dean, some people seem to see the attraction in LARPing, and tabletop gaming, and maybe even give it a try. I think it’s just that I’ve experienced the negative and scathing reaction more often than the positive reaction and so I was worried that this episode of SPN would hurt my feelings – I’m glad it didn’t and I suppose I can handle any blushes the episode made me experience 😀
Charlie’s outfit was brilliant, I loved the fact that she was dressed appropriately for fighting and not wearing something skimpy or revealing. Charlie does come across as a realistic female character more than a lot of SPN female characters. I was also very relieved that neither Dean, nor Sam, made ‘typical’ lecherous comments or faces about Charlie kissing the Fairy Mage. That was something I was worried about because sometimes the writers write Dean as insensitive in those situations.
I know, a TECH TENT?!?! That LARPing Society must be loaded to be able to have a tent with all those computers etc out in a public park. I’d join them if they were real LOL.
I LOVED this episode. It was great seeing Sam join Dean and the other Larpers during the last scene. I always suspected that he had a nerdy and geeky side just like Dean. 🙂
“These kids today, with their texting and murder.” Ha!
LOL! Best line of the episode. I kinda loved the Sheriff!
Great review. I loved the episode. I like Charlie and she and Dean have a really nice rapport. I don’t think Dean minded being her handmaiden at all. 😛
How much did I ADORE Dean in this episode? So, so much! From being patient, empathetic, and understanding with Sam – even suggesting they take a little time off to bond & have some fun, to gleeful excitement at getting to play dress up and hang with the LARP’ers, to opening up to Charlie about what was going on between he & Sam, to that final Braveheart speech… Dean was completely and utterly ADORABLE in this episode.
This was just a really fun and enjoyable one, IMO. I hope we see Charlie again. She’s great.
Thanks so much, Alice. I loved this episode. I said on another page that I need to redo my top 15 now – liked it that much! In addition to EVERYTHING you said (totally agree with it all), I was thrilled that the brothers were talking again, and joking around, and finally having some fun. It was so great! I also loved how both brothers were important to the story. And – for all the sourpusses out there (ok, maybe you don’t make the sourpuss face when unhappy, but I do when I am unhappy, so please don’t take the term personally) – Charlie is Sam’s friend too – Cass is Sam’s friend too. In fact, I recall Cass declaring that fact. C’mon guys. Be happy. It is not a contest. The brother relationship is finally getting repaired. I know they have more to do, but this built on last week’s first step beautifully. Happy, happy girl. (Yes, instead of the sourpuss face, my face currently has what my mother refers to as my “cheerful goofy face.”
Well, I now need to go watch the episode again.
I love to see Dean having fun and love it even more when Sam joins in!
So, yes, I loved this one. And the very end with the “Braveheart” speech, face-paint and charge to battle was what I’ve been waiting for the brothers to do for the last 4 and a half years!l Just have some fun together!
And yes, Merlin is my second favourite show at this time. Though I don’t watch it hundreds of times like I do my favourite. Love the dragons in it! 😮 😀
Loved this episode! Just goofy fun,charlie is great with the boys lol, Dean into larping and then Sam? It was great! We are getting more brother progress and some out right Fun! Sam needed that, bet he felt better just playing. Sure they have more to work on, but when don’t they, it is a great start! It was great to watch that final scene, hope they fit in more moments like that in the future.
The episode was fun. Light and silly. Probably just what we all needed. I loved how they were FINALLY called on the fake badges!
But I’ll admit to wishing for a bit more forward movement on the big mytharc – The other fun ones like French Mistake fit in to the overall story, imo. It just seems to be moving slower this year, for me.
Of course, I’ll be rewatching it multiple times anyway, because it was fun. 😀
LOVED THE EPI! Dean in medieval garb; his reactions to Charlie’s randiness (which is so like Sam’s reactions to younger Dean’s randiness); the TV acknowledgement that women are sexual beings to: “What? I can’t just shut this down”…….I do have one contention — how come there are no close and lengthy shots of Sam in medieval garb? Would have loved to see him in some, uh, tight hose. And the ponytail? Would love to see some more future epis of Ponytailed Sam.
So did Dean get to see real faeries (with nipples)? :-*
Really really enjoyed this episode! A few thoughts:
1. Please tell me I’m not the only fan who couldn’t help thinking of Richard and Matt at NJcon last August, when Dean said the “50 Shades of Grey Fox” line.
2. I totally agree with KELLY. I’ve been trying to keep an open mind on Amelia, but Sam and Maria had way better chemistry, imo.
3. Biggest missed opportunity: I would have just died if Dean would have said “It’s bigger on the inside.” when he went in the fairy tent. Oh well.
4. Loved the Dean & Charlie bonding too. “the porn star?” plus the battle strategy, plus the heart-to-heart chat.
5. omg that last scene. Epic LARPing bros are epic.
Quoting Lely:
[quote]3. Biggest missed opportunity: I would have just died if Dean would have said “It’s bigger on the inside.” when he went in the fairy tent. Oh well. [/quote]
Oh that would have been so funny! 😀
Hi Lely, 🙂
Speaking of Con reference. I remember there was one recently when the fans brought up the image of Rapunzel and Dean on twitter.
Jensen: Rapunzel is a chick with the long hair, man!
And he pointed at Jared asking why him, not Jared as rapunzel. The fan said because he has blond hair and green eyes.
Jared: You have blond hair and green eyes.
Jensen: Duh!
Now, we see Dean with long brown hair (wig). LOL Be careful what you’re saying, Jensen.
It’s official that Robbie Thompson is a Harry Potter avid fans. That scene where Charlie stabs the book is very similar to Ginny W stabs Tom Riddle’s book.
The Episode is fun and funny but it lacks something. Without the fun things and the shot out, I think the writing of this episode is mediocre. Others episodes by RT are still better but .. oh well, perhaps he had fun too writing it. So, it’s kind of a laid back episode.
Fav quote
Sam : … Belladonna.
Dean&Charlie : The pornstar?
Sam : O_o
LOL
Are those troll ears dangling from Dean’s chainmail at the end scene O_o
I’ll jump into the speculation pond. I didn’t originate this, because I’m not that creative, but I like it, so I’m sharing.
A lot depends on if this episode is a one off light episode or if it is setting a template for the season. The basics are we have something supernatural torturing and killing players and who appears to be the big bad. We then find out that she is in fact being controlled by Baltar. He seems innocuous. He is the guy keeping track of the rules, making sure people are where they are supposed to be and generally looking in charge as much as is possible in a LARP situation with people who are independent are working on their own agendas and desires to have their side win. And he has dealings with a fairy.
Right now, Naomi has been presented as the big bad, harming and controlling angels, creatures trained to be warriors. This may be true, although in a season based on perception, it may also only be perception. What if Naomi isn’t the power behind the throne? What if she is being controlled? Who quasi fits into the Baltar role?
So what else do we find out in this episode? One thing is that Garth is keeping track of where all the hunters are, especially the Winchesters by monitoring the GPS on their phones. He has taken over Bobby’s position of knowing the rules about monsters. He is making sure that hunters get where they need to be and is assigning hunts, placing him somewhat in charge of the hunting world which is populated with independent people who are working on their own agendas and for their own purposes. And Garth got started after going after a fairy.
It probably means nothing, but I do find it interesting that we found out that Garth’s first hunt was the Tooth Fairy, and now fairies return and the idea that the creature doing the harm may not be in charge. The point was made that Garth is tracking Sam and Dean using the GPS on their phones. Sam sees it as creepy. Dean sees it as practical. I find it an interesting fact to suddenly throw into the story. It may be part of of the making Garth not only a Bobby replacement, but also a more efficient Bobby replacement because of his use of modern technology. It may be a clue that more is going on than we think.
This is really interesting Percysowner, and maybe it COULD mean something… why go to all the bother having a call from Garth, mentioning the GPS thing? Is it just detail setting for the next couple of seasons as Garth establishes himself as the new Bobby, or could it relate to what’s going on now… hmmm. Curious.
I kind of hope it ISN’T because Garth is being influenced, or working with the fairies though… I love Garth and if he’s gone down the dark path (or the fairy path) he’s dead meat.
[quote]The point was made that Garth is tracking Sam and Dean using the GPS on their phones. Sam sees it as creepy. Dean sees it as practical. I find it an interesting fact to suddenly throw into the story. It may be part of of the making Garth not only a Bobby replacement, but also a more efficient Bobby replacement because of his use of modern technology. It may be a clue that more is going on than we think.[/quote]
What struck me is that it is a very big security hole for them. Garth may be doing it for the best of reasons, but if anyone else got control of the system, he would know where all the hunters were, too. The same problem may have occurred to Sam, as well, so he suggests they ditch the GPS on their phones. If they do, then at some point in the story, they may be the only hunters still at liberty.
Wouldn’t it be even CREPPIER if Garth was being manipulated into keeping track of Sam and Dean, heck, all the hunters for Naomi and her agenda?…. and maybe he doesn’t even know it. Yikes. This whole Naomi plot line has tremendous possibilities and I am liking it more and more.
You are a riposte god racestaffer, I am in awe 😀 LOVE it
Hi race, glad to see your comment here again. 😀
I’ll try to follow your way of thinking. Hmmm… about the StarWars reference. You ask if SPN has a Han Solo who has been on ice?
The answer is YES. Kripke always said that Dean is created upon the image and swagger of Han Solo right? In season 5 Lucifer once told the boys that contrary to popular believe Hell is actually cold. Lucifer demonstrated this by blowing cold breath on the window making the glass into ice. Essentially, when Dean went to Hell, he had been ICED.
I’m not sure about the “Leia/Luke” reference. Sam has always been created after Luke. A boy with a dark history and with power. Seeing that Leia and Luke is actually twin they can be concluded as one person in Sam. Sam is Luke and Leia at the same time. Sam is always personified of having a girl emotion (according to Dean at least), smart, resourceful, prissy, bitchfaced. Leia is a leader of a nation when Sam is supposed to lead the demon army.
If you’re talking about Leia who needs to get rescued by “her borther”, then Dean as Sam’s brother has rescued Sam from the Cage in S6. Dean wore Death’s ring in order to rescue Sam. Death’s ring is like costumes whenever Dean put it on it shrouded him in invisibility and making him a reaper.
Leia was chained and Sam was caged with the enemy.
Han Solo made deal to help Luke save Leia and Dean made a deal to save Sam. I won’t comment about the kiss obviously LOL
Racestaffer, if you are going for repetition; last season (The girl with the dungeons and dragons tattoo) didn’t Charlie’s co-worker also say “I love you” and she say “I know” like Voltar the Furious did after the sword fight
I think it is Baltar, have listened repeatedly and it certainly sounds like a bilablial stop (instead of a dental labial fricative (linguistics 😀 ), so you right, let’s go with Baltar on this one
I agree it’s Baltar, which then calls back to Battlestar Galactica whose main villain was called Baltar, except in the end
SPOILERS FOR BSG
Balter turned out to be an angel directing the course of mankind.
Hey Percy this one’s for you.
Talking about speculating. I nearly choked on my tea just now as a funny thought popped into my head. Think about Zuma as Cass. Now that says a lot! Now just who is Naomi in this particular context.
I’m either very forgetful or very out of touch. Who is Zuma?
Oops Percy, sorry for that, I though you were South African. There was a lot of discussion in the news recently that Zuma (SA president) is a puppet, so was just using SPN mytharc to speculate SA politics. Fun but I don’t think SPN could cook up anything as scary 😡
Hahaha, totally agree, Kaz!
😆 At Uni. Linguistics was a major many moons ago, utterly useless but mindbogglingly interesting. I could tell you stories about the American post vocalic ‘r’ that would have you in stitches. However I digress. Won’t mention the D word but hope you don’t… well get drilled (snicker 😛 ).
I am enjoying the speculation between you, RMF, Percy and E. Haven’t thought to look at the popcultural references behind the script until I read these posts. So am now going to pay far more attention. Only thing is though my general knowledge on pop culture is at best rusty, so best I get my MrMin out and polish up.
Talking about chains … If you say Dean is the go to guy for chain mail, remember in Hell Dean was chained. Also Dean can be thought as chain male too due to his many strings of girlfriends. 😀