sweetondean’s spoiler-lite preview of “Supernatural” 8.06, “Southern Comfort”
Ok,.it’s that time of the week again. Already? Wow. Time flies when you’re waiting for a bro confrontation…
So here we go for another episode preview.
THEN
When Sammy met Benny,..
NOW
Dean’s monster secret is out in the open. Sam met Benny and Sam’s pissed. That was definitely his pissed face. His very pissed face.
I’m pretty happy at least, that one of the brother’s secrets is out in the open, even if that means the “˜personal crap’ is about to hit the fan.
Episode 8.06 “Southern Comfort” is written by Adam Glass. He’s got another Garth episode. It’s his second, as Glass wrote, “Party On, Garth”. I wonder if maybe Garth was Glass’ creation. I know Dabb and Loflin were the first to write Garth in “Season 7, Time for a Wedding”, but I’m wondering if Glass came up with the original character concept and Dabb and Loflin just got the assignment to cover that episode. I have absolutely nothing to base this on other than, as this is the second Garth episode Glass has written, he must like the character, or have some ownership over it.
Tim Andrew directs this episode and actually, he directed “Season 7, Time for a Wedding”, so this will be his second time around the block with Garth too. In addition, Tim directed “Of Grave Importance”. This will be his third episode of “Supernatural”.
Let’s look at the synopsis:
GARTH RETURNS TO HELP SAM AND DEAN ON A CASE “” Sam and Dean investigate a murder and find Garth (guest star DJ Qualls) is already on the case. Dean is not happy to learn that Garth has assumed Bobby’s duties, but Garth points out that both Sam and Dean have been missing for the last year and someone needed to do it. The guys discover an “avenging ghost” is responsible for the murders and they need to find the source before the killings starts again.
The thing about Garth is, to me he seems to be quite intuitive. He was right on the money with the guy with the wife who sold her soul in “Season 7, Time for a Wedding” and he was all over Bobby being attached to the flask in “Party On, Garth”, so maybe an outsider coming into and assessing and maybe raising some issues regarading the brother’s situation at this point, is a good thing. Yes? No? Too hopeful?
The promo shows Garth stating that it seems to him, that the brothers are talking to each other but neither is listening. I smiled at this. I wanted to say to Garth, “Oh that’s right, you haven’t known them that long!” Then bam, Sam hits Dean. Meep! Dean says Sam never wanted this life, Sam says you had secrets you had Benny, Dean says you left me to die, for a girl and then,oh gosh, gun out and possibly pointed at Sam,. Meep meep! Hey Dean…this discussion does not require a weapons discharge (happy place, happy place, happy place)!
I really want Sam and Dean to have this out, at least some of it. Yelling at each other,no problemo, but I get upset when they hit each other. I don’t like that, it makes me yell at them via my TV like some insane person who thinks Sam and Dean are real,wait, what? The only time I can think of when one of them pulled a gun on the other is when Sam thought Dean was Lucifer in the “stone number one” coversation. Has there been any other times?
The question of course being, is this all real emotional spillage or is something provoking it,other than their anger and frustration with each other. Promos can be notriously tricky and manipulative in how they depict a scene. I’ve been tricked by the CW promo team before! Only time will tell the contex. But I’m preparing myself for angst, painful, Winchestery angst. GAH!
The preview clip shows Dean and Garth doing a bit of research. Garth makes the mistake of calling Dean an idjit, Dean tells him in no uncertain terms, if he’s not going say it properly, don’t say it at all,meaning, don’t say it at all. Garth then points out that the brothers are “a little tense around each other” and offers his assistance, just like Bobby would. Oops. Dean, who is already irritated and, well tense, loses it and yells at Garth that he’s not Bobby and he never will be. Garth’s chin wobbles and he tries to explain, the brother’s don’t own Bobby, he belonged to everyone. Dean softens his tone. I love how Dean does this,KABOOOM temper,then realises what he did and tries to be a little kinder, in his own inimitable way.
And,sorry for what I’m about to say but,.Dean looks AMAZING in this clip. I love me some cranky Dean. Jensen has to stop getting better looking (Jensen do not stop getting better looking). This show is killing me with the hottness of these guys this season. Once again,sorry, where was I,.
This scene is kind of sad isn’t it? The first time I watched it I went, *wibble*. I was so happy/sad that they were talking about Bobby, even if Dean wasn’t, I was. I really like that the thought of someone trying to replace Bobby, not that I think Garth genuinely was, makes Dean flip his lid. I like that Bobby’s missed, that’s they’re speaking about him, that he’s still in everyone’s thoughts,.it makes me happy/sad all in one. That’s a “Supernatural” emotion…. Happy/Sad.
So that’s it. It looks like it might be a tad painful…for something completely different.
Are we ready for the confrontation? I am…I’m ready, or as ready as I ever am.
And just out of interest, how does everyone feel about Garth? Is he a good character to keep revisiting? I’d like to hear if you dig the character or not.
Let me know your thoughts.
Enjoy the episode everyone!
See you in reviewland.
-sweetondean
EDIT: I found a good copy of the CHCH promo for this episode.
[quote]The only time I can think of when one of them pulled a gun on the other is when Sam thought Dean was Lucifer in the “stone number one” coversation. Has there been any other times?[/quote]
Asylum when Sam was under Dr. Ellicott’s influence.
I also find Sam hitting Dean unusual. The only time he has actually hit Dean was in Levee. Other than that, even when Dean has hit him, Sam has not really retaliated. Not when he was under the influence of the Siren and not even when he was Soulless and Dean was whaling on him and beating him into unconsciousness. Sam has snapped at Dean but he doesn’t usually respond with hitting him. So either Sam has changed or more is going on here then meet the eye.
What Percysowner said! Sam almost never hits Dean, but Dean does it on such a regular basis that in one episode Sam actually says ‘Do you want to hit me again, go ahead if it will make you feel better’ (referring to a previous episode).
I am always sad when Sam pulls the trigger in Asylum. I don’t believe that he would do that…even though he did.
But I think that what happened in last weeks episode is enough to make Sam snap for once. Of course there seems to be all sorts of extenuating circumstances in that clip so who knows, looking forward to it!
Sam has NEVER randomly hit Dean. He just doesn’t do that. That is not in his character.
I’ll save further comment for the Sam thread after tomorrow’s episode.
I don’t really know how to define ‘randomly’ in this context but I was thinking of the end of season 4 where they fight in the hotel room when I wrote that. Other times when they have fought it is generally because one or other of them is possessed so that probably doesn’t count.
Yeah . . . we’ll have to see how it plays out, but I generally don’t see Sam as the type who hits when he’s upset. The fight in WTLB was abnormal for Sam as he doesn’t normally respond w/physcial violence. There was a lot of speculation that he was under the blood’s influence at the time, but I’m not sure if that theory ever made it to canon.
All the other times Dean has punched Sam, Sam usually just takes it and doesn’t fight back. So, I do wonder how Carver is going to play this. Depending on what happens, it may further support my belief that Carver doesn’t understand Sam. I won’t say much more than that b/c of the new rules and all.
I’m ver interested in how this physical fight starts.
Me too, but for me just because Sam doesn’t usually hit Dean doesn’t mean that he couldn’t be pushed to it and it still be in character.
True . . . but is it bad for me to say that I hope Sam doesn’t hit Dean b/c of Amelia! She sucks, and Sam shouldn’t fight his brother b/c of her.
Yes I agree with you we don’t know her well enough yet – I don’t think it would have the drama effect the writers are going for.
But Dean wouldn’t be fighting with Sam over ‘Amelia’ he doesn’t know one single thing about her – he hasn’t even asked her name – he is fighting with him over rejection so the ‘you left me to die for a girl’ is not about Amelia at all.
Comes to that we don’t know Benny well enough yet for them to be fighting over him but that’s also a proxy for old wounds.
So I agree with you to there.
But Amelia doesn’t suck, nope, not yet, not to me. And if she does turn out to be a Big Bad then I applaud her acting so far 😀
Hi Lala,
They kind of did confirm the idea that Sam was under the influence of demon blood in WTLB, at least in a very round about way. In season 5’s Point of No Return, when Sam confronts Dean in the hotel room, Sam says ‘you know I have to stop you’ and Dean responds ‘you can try, but your not all hopped up on demon blood this time’ or something to that effect. To me this sort of gives credence to the idea that A) Sam WAS under the influence in WTLB and that it was the demon blood that helped him get the best of Dean physically at that time. It’s always been sort of canonish (at least to me) that Dean can take Sam in a fight. However, I have always liked to believe that Sam never really has, or almost can’t really fight Dean in that way, so part of him always holds back except for that one time.
You know I always thought Sam held back b/c Dean’s been such a father figure to him.
I forgot about PONR though. You’re right about that confirming that the demon blood is what fueled Sam in WTLB. I also agree w/you about Dean being able to physically best Sam in a fight. That is canon, IMO.
I’m wondering if Dean just pushes Sam too far? They’re both pretty tense at the moment and especially with how we left it after last week’s episode and the look on Sam’s face, I can easily see Dean going too far with a comment.
But the “avenging ghost” thing in the synopsis makes me wonder if something more is going on.
I hope it’s honest emotions, explosive or otherwise.
I heard a few comments about how Dean seems to have something coming out of his ear in the promo. And he does look odd.
I would tend to believe something more is happening as well b/c it’s really not like Sam to just haul off and punch Dean. At least not in my opinion. He doesn’t act that way.
To be honest, I expect nothing substantial to come from this episode. It just seems to be a mash-up of “Metamorphosis” and “Sex and Violence,” and you’d think the producers would draw the line at repeating past episodes, but that’s all they seem to come up with again and again. I would love to actually see a mature, honest conversation between these two, but that would require way more clever and focused writing than this show could ever hope to get. I think anything gleaned from the guys’ interactions will prove to be pointless, since it seems once again that possession is involved, which will more than likely render much of what transpires meaningless.
I cannot wait for this episode! Unfortunately, I have to wait until Thursday – darned job! Really, of all nights to have to do inventory!
First off, thanks for the great and funny article. And, the only time I can remember one brother drawing his weapon on the other was when Sam was under the spell of Dr. Ellicott in “Asylum” and shot Dean with the salt gun and tried to shoot him with the handgun. I don’t remember either doing that when in their right minds.
Anyway, I am more than ready for the confrontation! I am sure it will be one of many. I predict that the next several episodes will be all about getting the brothers back together by first having some tough, angsty scenes between them. I also predict a good brother heart to heart like the old days by episode 8 or 9 at the latest. I have NO knowledge here, no spoilers, it is just how the arch seams to be unfolding to me. I am happy!
I am fine with Garth in small doses. Two or three episodes a season of him is fine. Intrigued by the Benny character. Jury still out on Amelia. I need more info.
Thanks again for the article – cannot wait for the episode! (Oh yeah, I already said that.)
Love reading you reviews. I agree with most of what you write. I have to say I watch the show mainly for the hot guys, which I agree they are awesome this year, and the relationship of the bros. Very excited about this eposide, looks tension filled! Wednesdays don’t come fast enough.
Sam shot Dean when he was under the influence in Asylum and again in Born Under a Bad Sign.
Really enjoying S8 so far. However, I wish that the writers would give up on putting the brothers at logger heads like this. S&D should have disagreements, yes, that’s normal, but not to the extent where they still have so much distrust of eachother that they hold back on being open about certain important issues. They’ve both been through too much together and individually to hit the reset button on that score. I really hope this is the last time the writers will venture down this avenue. Finally, there are not enough words to convey how I am in awe of Dean right now. Flawed though Dean is, and openly so, I absolutely adore him becuase of his innate loyalty and committment to friend, family and frenemy. Dean’s imperfections are perfect:D
That’s one of the reasons I love the brothers so much, they are very human with their flaws. Their flaws make them all the more beautiful in my eyes. 🙂
Sam didn’t shoot Dean in Born Under a Bad Sign, Meg did.
Thanks everyone. Totally forgot about Asylum and totally forgot and Born Under A Bad Sign! Geesh!
Obviously I forgot about Born Under a Bad Sign. OTOH, Sam didn’t shoot Dean, Meg did. Since Dean just said he didn’t want to kill Mrs. Tran, he wanted to kill Crowley, it’s an interesting distinction. I’ll give it as another time Sam pulled a gun on Dean, but it is close.
But Sam was possessed in BUABS. I don’t think that one can be counted.
Now, even though he was possessed in Asylum, I think that one can be counted b/c it highlighted some major issues he had w/Dean. But then, I guess that only really shouldn’t be counted either b/c even though Sam had issues w/Dean, he would have never attempted to kill him.
I’ve never re-watched TCCODW so I don’t recall the gun incident in that one.
I think the only time we can genuinely say Sam threw the first punch was in WTLB. Every other time, he was possessed by something.
I agree, they’re kind of different. All of the gun pulling has been under circumstances that are not normal.
Judging by the previews, this episode looks so great. I’ve been dying for a while a good old fashioned “brothers hash out their differences” episode. Then again, “Tall Tales” and “When The Levee Breaks” are two of my favorite episodes.
However, my heart sinks when I see this episode is written by Adam Glass. No writer I think has failed with Sam and Dean characterization more than Glass. He did write one good script, “Mommy Dearest” so I’m really, really hoping he gets this one right.
I also was skeptical when I heard Garth was coming back, but Garth playing what is essentially a marriage counselor between this two? Brilliant! No one has a more grounded perspective on the world.
Fingers crossed!
I have very similar feelings about Adam Glass, as I think you know, he’s patchy at best. But I’m hoping he’ll surprise me!
The thing I like about Garth is that he does seem to be quite perseptive and right now, that could be a good thing!
My fingers are crossed too 🙂
I was trying to remember which episode that he did that I really enjoy and it is Mommy Dearest. That is such a good self-contained episode, I am totally willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. Can’t wait!
I too am leery about Adam Glass as a writer. I hope he pulls this out, because this sounds like it could be a pivotal episode. I needs to be well written.
It really does have that important turning point vibe in the promo – we’ll see. I also enjoyed Mommy Dearest. I thought the drinking of the Phoenix ashes was a masterful idea. So yes, benefit of the doubt is what I’m giving him too.
Sam pulled a gun on Dean in ASYLUM..under the influence of Ellicot, and in BORN UNDER A BAD SIGN..when possessed by Meg. He also pulled a gun on Dean in THE CURIOUS CASE OF DEAN WINCHESTER..when Chad Everett was playing old Dean.
Sam has never punched Dean..usually Dean is punching Sam. It’s not in his character, so that part of the clip is shocking for me. Can’t wait to find out the circumstances surrounding that.
Shocked me too. I played it back to make sure I’d seen right.
Maybe Sam clocks Dean to keep from getting shot. It would be like a promo to show things out of order to get everybody all worked up….
As I’m watching, I’m pretty sure that is what’s going to happen.
Ha! I totally called that one!
My take on Asylum though was that while Sam was possessed it was just encouraging him to let out his rage in the most extreme way possible, instead of BUABS where he was not in control of his body at all. That is why that one bothers me because with the bond as shown between the boys he might have been able to resist it. It makes me sad 🙁
Asylum and Skin. Those episodes both made me go…oh…not everything is happy families with these two, they have some issues! I’ve always thought what Sam said under the influence of Ellicott and what the shapeshifter took out of Dean’s mind were emotions they’d not voiced and probably never would voice under normal circumstances.
I am glad you brought up Skin cause now I can say how much the line Dean has about how he could ‘always kick [Sam’s] ass when we were kids’ also bothers me! No way, none, that Dean would beat up on Sam when he was only half his size (I am getting all my issues out this evening 😀 ) And Skin is also in my top 10 episodes.
Skin is a go to episode for me. I really love that ep. Top ten for me too. I really liked that shifter Dean. Kind of creepy. I’ve always wondered what the hell he whispered in Becky’s ear!
I see Ellicott as being like the Siren. Everyone who came into contact with Ellicott ended up killing people they loved in an unexpected rage. Everyone said that t he policeman who murdered his wife then killed himself seemed to be totally in love with his wife and there were no arguments or indications there was trouble in the marriage. I love people in my family dearly and completely, which doesn’t mean they don’t infuriate me sometimes. Ellicott cut the limits we put on ourselves to to behave like human beings. In fact Ellicott amped up the anger. Yes, Sam was angry at Dean about all the things he said, but he never wanted him dead over them. The show is strongly told from Dean’s POV. Even though we know that several people who entered the Asylum went and killed people, when Dean says I didn’t know you were that angry at me, we hear that Sam is angrier than the other people as opposed to Ellicott’s influence is so powerful that it raises whatever anger is there. The show often presents Dean’s interpretation of Sam’s behavior is accepted as true. The biggest example of this is from the Pilot. Dean says that Sam left to find normal, Sam says no he left for SAFE. To this day fandom predominantly says that Sam left for normal.
I noticed something on one of the clips (CHCH I think) and commmented on the spoiler page. I’m sure others have picked up on it as well. Think it explains alot.
Can’t wait for Winchester Wednesday! Funny note…the first time I said that my son wakes up the following day and says “Hey, it’s Blood Thirsty Thursday!”
OMG! Yeah ok, I hadn’t noticed that on the CHCH promo – just saw it – explains a lot.
Oh no, should I not have mentioned that here? Is it a spoiler?
If people saw the promo they may or may not have noticed it, so don’t worry! The version of the promo I saw – which was shot off someone’s TV – I watched a few times, never noticed it, too stressed by the gun thing! 😮
Garth and Adam Glass together? I don’t expect a lot from this episode. Let me talk about Garth and this clip, which really ticked me off. I’ll be clear by sayng that I’m only talking about the clip, because clips have been mostly misleading this season — and so has the episode descriptions. The clip ticked me off because:
Garth is co-opting Dean’s grief, taking it on as his own. We do know that Bobby loved Sam and Dean and that he loved Dean the most. That’s canon, and that didn’t come from Sam or Dean’s POV, that came from Bobby’s (Death’s Door and You Can’t Handle the Truth). We also know from Survival of the Fittest that Bobby said he last good-bye to the boys and that Dean was soon thereafter vaporized into Purgatory, which means Dean has not even had time to grieve properly for the father that he adopted after John died, making the co-opting thing doubly offensive.
Garth is basically assuming Bobby’s hunter expert role (which he has neither the experience, knowledge, or capacity to do) AND father-figure role, the “I’m always here for you†crap. Dean has been in the hunting life for 30 years, and actively hunting for a couple of decades. He and Sam are both hunter royalty, and Dean is actually on the top rung in the hunter community. He rivals or is better than John, Bobby, Sampa Campbell, and Rufus, who were all older generation hunters, and this clip has Garth, a village idiot possibly only knowledgeable in minor salt and burns, calling Dean an ‘idgit.’ WTF! That was Bobby’s code word for the love he had for the brothers.
Having a wannabe, comic relief fool of a hunter disrespect Dean’s character diminishes Dean’s character and discounts the fact that not only is Dean the leader of the new generation of hunters, it discounts all of Dean’s successes (including dying to get Sam’s soul back), the 40 years he spent in Hell, the year of fighting in Purgatory, and the relationship he has with Death, a powerful Horseman, and with Cas, a seraph-level angel, not to mention that he is the only person on Earth has has been to all five realms.
And the last thing about Garth is that we are supposed to be getting a back story on him. When the show starts passing out back stories, it means that the character is going to become a major supporting character – like Cas became and like Benny is (in this season anyway). It makes me flat-out mad that hunters like Rufus and Ellen were killed off and this stupid joke of a character is used several times. He should have been a one off and I want Dean to pull out the Colt 1911 and gank him.
I think we can assume that Bobby was a go-to guy in the hunting community, but that doesn’t mean that everyone loved him and are grieving excessively for him. For instance, I doubt that Roy and Walt shed many tears. Lee probably gave a deep sigh and shrugged his shoulder at another loss in the hunting community — Mackey, too, as he seemed like a fairly pragmatic type of guy. Also, Bobby was a grumpy, old drunk, and it would be my impression that he helped who he wanted to help. I don’t think he telegraphed that he was hunter central.
I expect Garth will be used to bring the conflict between Sam and Dean to the forefront like he did the GhostBobby issue. I also half expect that conflict to be pushed in the background again to be re-addressed later.
It doesn’t surprise me that Sam is punching Dean. The writers usually pass these things around to address fan crying about unfairness.
[quote]It doesn’t surprise me that Sam is punching Dean. The writers usually pass these things around to address fan crying about unfairness.[/quote]
It concerns me that they show Sam punching Dean. As many have pointed out, in 7+ seasons Sam has only punched Dean once. If he punches Dean it is another example of Sam being very OOC from who has has been for 7+ seasons. This leaves me more concerned that the writers do not have a handle on Sam’s characterization at all.
I’m also disturbed that we are getting a back story on Garth when there is still so much left unresolved as to Dean and especially Sam’s story about the Purgatory year.
I don’t know, [b]percysowner[/b] that the writers think of it as a characteristic issue. I remember reading lots and lots of comments over the last few years about how mean Dean was because he always punches Sam and Sam never punches Dean, and I think the writers generally respond to everything with a juvenile sense of what one brother has/does, the other one gets to do it, too. That kind of thing drives me nuts, especially when it comes to storylines.
Also, we are only able to address what we see in the clip, so we don’t know the context of the punching. We don’t know if it’s because Dean blasts him about leaving him to die for a girl, if Dean is possessed by a monster (can’t be a demon, because of the tat), or what’s going on.
Is this the episode with the backstory for Garth? I thought there was one coming down the pipe. Whatever. He’s in the series until it ends and that disappoints me a lot. I wanted the SPNverse expanded, but I wanted it expanded with believeable, legitimate characters — not cartoon characters.
Oh, I don’t think it is unfairness, I think that it is just personality difference. Dean would probably be very happy if Sam hit him back, after all they are tough as nails and mend implausibly quickly, but Sam is stubborn and so he doesn’t, not because he is afraid to antagonise Dean but because in a brother way he knows if he doesn’t hit him back he wins.
You will notice that generally Sam has forgotten he has been hit within, like, 30 seconds (like in the first vampire episode with Gordon). It is a weird dynamic I admit but still … guys.
Where this doesn’t happen is where Dean is actively angry with Sam (instead of just lashing out) like in Metamorphosis then the fighting is more serious. And it looks like tomorrows episode might be the corollary of that fight. Maybe.
[quote] after all they are tough as nails and mend implausibly quickly[/quote]
Oh this made me laugh!
Remember those horrible gashes they got on their faces in Shadow? They sure do heal up nicely!
Yes those gashes should have been impossible to stitch and left permanent scars. But that’s what magical network cream is for! 😀
LOL. Love this line – Garth, a village idiot possibly only knowledgeable in minor salt and burns
me too.
[quote]making the co-opting thing doubly offensive.[/quote]Yes .I agree and also unsolicited advice is a really tricky thing in itself and if the source of such an advice is not a close one again it becomes more offensive.[quote]AND father-figure role, the “I’m always here for you†crap. [/quote]This is unbelievable to me too
I don’t measure Dean’s worth by Garth’s comment so that part does not decrease Dean’s position in hunter community.For me it is simple ,They want Garth to be a Kind of go to guy (stress on kind of) . Garth may (stress on may) become like Bobby eventually but replacing Bobby is impossible in hunting community or in Sam and Dean’s life.So,if he tries to and then tries to act hurt by Dean’s offense then don’t expect me to feel sorry for Garth.
Maybe by punching Dean Sam is trying to commit suicide by Dean. Deans seems pretty angry enough…it would totally work. Specially if dean is threatening to shoot Sam. I could see Sam just wanting to be as done with all the conflict with dean, with hunting. I mean if THIS is what their relationship has come to… I’d want it over too.
While I think the black goo leaking out of Dean’s ear might play a part in why Sam punches him, I quite like the idea that Sam punches him because Dean has pushed him to his breaking point. God knows, dude has been fairly caustic to him this season and by punching him he’s speaking a language Dean knows and uses quite often. However, I think it more likely that Sam is trying to knock Dean out because he’s possessed or supernaturally influenced.
I’m sorry Ginger but there is so much about your post I’ve difficulty with.
[quote]Garth is co-opting Dean’s grief, taking it on as his own. We do know that Bobby loved Sam and Dean and that he loved Dean the most. That’s canon, and that didn’t come from Sam or Dean’s POV, that came from Bobby’s (Death’s Door and You Can’t Handle the Truth). We also know from Survival of the Fittest that Bobby said he last good-bye to the boys and that Dean was soon thereafter vaporized into Purgatory, which means Dean has not even had time to grieve properly for the father that he adopted after John died, making the co-opting thing doubly offensive.[/quote]
I don’t get this idea that Garth is ‘co-opting’ Dean’s grief. While we might only see Dean’s POV on this show, he does not have a monopoly on feelings. We saw Dean do this exact same thing to Sam after John died. At least this way Dean is getting a subtle reminder that he is not the only person who gets to emote, who gets to hurt and who gets to grieve; knowledge that Purgatory might have driven from him. Garth is a sentimental guy. We might think that he didn’t love Bobby as much as Sam and Dean did but who are we to say? Do you believe that Jody Mills should not be allowed to grieve while Dean was around because Dean knew him better? Should Sam not be allowed to grieve because, according to you, Bobby loved Dean best?
Not only that but Garth was trying to imitate Bobby before he met Dean in this episode so how on earth is he co-opting him when he wasn’t even around him?
Secondly, it’s not canon he loved Dean the most, it’s canon that Dean was his favourite. Of my nieces and nephews I have a favourite, but do I love her the most? Not a hope. It’d be a pretty scary world if being favourite meant being loved more and I’d lose an awful lot of respect for Bobby if he acted that way. Hell, I’d love respect for any person who acted that way. Love isn’t based on hierarchy. Being favoured is a conditional thing, being loved is not.
[quote]Garth is basically assuming Bobby’s hunter expert role (which he has neither the experience, knowledge, or capacity to do) AND father-figure role, the “I’m always here for you†crap. Dean has been in the hunting life for 30 years, and actively hunting for a couple of decades. He and Sam are both hunter royalty, and Dean is actually on the top rung in the hunter community. He rivals or is better than John, Bobby, Sampa Campbell, and Rufus, who were all older generation hunters, and this clip has Garth, a village idiot possibly only knowledgeable in minor salt and burns, calling Dean an ‘idgit.’ WTF! That was Bobby’s code word for the love he had for the brothers.[/quote]
We don’t know that he doesn’t have the experience, knowledge or capacity to assume Bobby’s role. We know next to nothing about him. If it was Sam who was taking on the Bobby role then we wouldn’t bat an eyelid and he seems to be younger than Garth. Does Garth [i]look[/i] like he could assume the role? No. But the general perception of Bobby by the people who didn’t know him was that he was the crazy town drunk. They were damn wrong.
The same logic applies to the ‘top rung in the hunting community’. We know next to nothing about other hunters active today or their exploits. We know next to nothing about John, Bobby, Samuel or Rufus and their hunts. Now admittedly these hunters are all dead so Sam and Dean have moved up the ladder but I find the suggestion that they should be considered ‘hunter royalty’ to be disturbing because it separates them from the ordinary man. (Actually, if Sam and Dean were so great you’d think they’d stop messing up in the first place!) If we only ever saw Garth in action we’d think he was the best hunter ever too. You can’t categorically state they’re they best ever when you’ve only ever seen them in action.
[quote]Having a wannabe, comic relief fool of a hunter disrespect Dean’s character diminishes Dean’s character and discounts the fact that not only is Dean the leader of the new generation of hunters, it discounts all of Dean’s successes (including dying to get Sam’s soul back), the 40 years he spent in Hell, the year of fighting in Purgatory, and the relationship he has with Death, a powerful Horseman, and with Cas, a seraph-level angel, [/quote]
There isn’t a hierarchy of hunter’s either! And ‘disrespecting’ Dean’s character by talking to him? And discounting Dean’s success by telling him he’s there for him? I’m sorry Ginger but Dean is not on another plain of hunters, so elevated above everyone else that they should not dare to talk to him unless he grant them an audience. Dean is a man, the same as everyone else. He is a hunter, the same as many others. He’s great at his job, but so are a lot of other people.
[quote]not to mention that he is the only person on Earth has has been to all five realms.[/quote]
Wouldn’t this make him more ‘unlucky’ than ‘good’? If he was such a fantastic hunter he’d never have found himself in those realms in the first place. And bar earth (which doesn’t really count) Dean has had little or no role in getting himself out of those realms.
And how could Garth be discounting all of Dean’s successes, including all those you’ve listed out, if he doesn’t know about them in the first place??
I’m sure this sounds like I am ‘dismissing’ Dean’s successes or considering him harshly. I’m not. I just find the idea that Dean should be thought of, and treated, differently to everyone else to be rather blinkered. Dean is a great hunter, but anyone who chooses to do this life, and survives to talk about it, is a great hunter. He has done great things, but both he and Sam have also been responsible for terrible things. I don’t like the thought of Sam and Dean as swashbuckling heroes, so much bigger and better and badder than everyone else, swinging in to save the day, because it makes them cartoonlike and almost unrelatable. That they choose to do this life makes them good men, that they go above and beyond the call of duty to fix their mistakes makes them honourable men, that they need and are not afraid to ask for help when needed makes them real men, and I prefer them like that.
[quote]And the last thing about Garth is that we are supposed to be getting a back story on him. When the show starts passing out back stories, it means that the character is going to become a major supporting character – like Cas became and like Benny is (in this season anyway). It makes me flat-out mad that hunters like Rufus and Ellen were killed off and this stupid joke of a character is used several times. He should have been a one off and I want Dean to pull out the Colt 1911 and gank him.[/quote]
Good. Back stories make characters more real and more relatable so bring it on.
[quote]I think we can assume that Bobby was a go-to guy in the hunting community, but that doesn’t mean that everyone loved him and are grieving excessively for him. For instance, I doubt that Roy and Walt shed many tears. Lee probably gave a deep sigh and shrugged his shoulder at another loss in the hunting community — Mackey, too, as he seemed like a fairly pragmatic type of guy. Also, Bobby was a grumpy, old drunk, and it would be my impression that he helped who he wanted to help. I don’t think he telegraphed that he was hunter central.[/quote]
He might not have telegraphed it but a hell of a lot of hunters know who he was and relied on him. [i]Weekend at Bobby’s[/i] showed us that. The phones were hopping off the walls, there were hunters arriving at his door, he was hiding bodies and doing research for other hunters, and it was suggested that this wasn’t an unusual day for Bobby, all on one day so Bobby obviously [i]wanted[/i] to help an awful lot of people.
No-one is saying that everyone loved Bobby, though the bulk of the characters we’ve seen on the show have. However, he was well respected and his loss will be felt by more than just Sam and Dean.
[quote]No-one is saying that everyone loved Bobby, though the bulk of the characters we’ve seen on the show have. However, he was well respected and his loss will be felt by more than just Sam and Dean.[/quote]
I agree with this. I think Bobby’s loss would have been deeply felt across the hunting community. People have mention him and said sorry to hear about Bobby to the boys and in Adventures in Babysitting a hunter’s daughter was trying to contact him for help.
I find this attitude a bit puzzling. For weeks now fans have been going on and on about how it could even be possible for Sam to not look for Dean. Some fans are angry, some fans are rationalising, some are ok but the bottom line is that fans have not been able to overlook that aspect. If we as fans feel that way why is it so hard to understand that Dean who has all his life depended on his brother, to feel bad about it. He’s human. I would feel bad too. And he is constantly talking about it and pushing Sam BECOS Sam is not saying anything or responding to it. If Sam is upfront and talks abt it am sure Dean wouldnt push so hard, in fact he may even back off.
On a separate note (am not talking about any specific post) it hurts me when people say they are happy Sam is punching Dean (or vice versa). This to me is depressing. I dont see any brother deserving to be punched for their actions (as much as am unhappy by Sam not looking for Dean or Dean’s gripe against Sam).
This exactly. We as fans are struggling with Sam’s decision not to look for Dean. Going from this site alone it seems impossible for many to accept. So why then is it just horrible of Dean to feel the same way? He can’t accept that his brother didn’t look for him. he feels awful about it. Now, we don’t know everything and there may well be a reason that Sam didn’t look or something that he’s hiding. But even if that’s true, the fact remains that he’d rather let Dean think that he didn’t bother to look than tell him the truth.
I agree that Dean might be better able to deal with this if Sam would talk about his choice, instead of just treating it as no big deal. I’ve read many great theories about why Sam didn’t look, including many on this site. If Sam were to offer something more than “What? I found something great this year”, it’d probably make things easier on both of them. Let’s face it, Dean’s biggest insecurity is his place with his family outside of hunting, and this is hitting him right in that sore spot. I’m not sure why some fans are so surprised that Dean’s having a hard time letting that go.
It doesn’t bother me necessarily when Sam or Dean hit each other, but it does amuse me that Dean hitting Sam is considered abusive by some, but Dean getting hit by Sam will be Dean getting what’s coming to him. Oh, fandom.
Oh, and I’m not pointing that last paragraph at anyone in particular. It’s just something I’ve read around the internet that I’ve observed in an interesting, observational way, to paraphrase from Sam.
Totally agree with CJ and Emmau on this one. Perfectly said.
On emmau’s last part I have seen that too. In fact on youtube below the promo vid there were some fans saying Sam should break Dean’s face. And that he deserves it. That was just too hurtful. I also detest it if fans say Dean should beat up Sam (though I have not seen it this season). The hate on either side is appaling. But thankfully its a minority and most fans love both brothers.
I have no problem with Dean being angry about Sam not looking for him. I’ve always said I understand why, but he hasn’t been going on at Sam about not looking. He’s been on Sam for wanting a normal life once they close the Gates of Hell. It is healthy that Dean confront Sam about this and I don’t have a problem with Dean dealing with the real issue between them. Frankly, I think that the only reason they didn’t have Dean push is because they really want us to see that Sam didn’t look OR because they want to keep the circumstances surrounding Sam a twist. So instead of Dean freaking out about Sam leaving him behind, which is completely understandable and normal, we have Dean trying to keep Sam with him and away from what Sam says he wants, which is controlling and stupid. Having a partner who is miserable and doesn’t want to hunt probably makes them far less effective as backup.
I may have missed something, but most of the comments I have read don’t want Sam to punch Dean. I certainly don’t. I have always disliked Dean’s punching Sam. I am really unhappy by the preview of Sam punching Dean because this really is OOC. He has only hit Dean once in Levee and I think they were trying to telegraph how OOC Sam had become due to the demon blood. Perhaps it will play out in a way that doesn’t make Sam behave in a way that is OOC. I’m going to wait and see.
[quote]So instead of Dean freaking out about Sam leaving him behind, which is completely understandable and normal, we have Dean trying to keep Sam with him and away from what Sam says he wants, which is controlling and stupid. Having a partner who is miserable and doesn’t want to hunt probably makes them far less effective as backup.[/quote]
I dont see it as Dean keeping Sam with him. It was Sam who on his own admission (in ep 1) said Kevin was his responsibility and that he would hunt with Dean on this mission. Sam is staying by Dean’s side on his own accord right now. In fact in ep 1 Dean says “we?” meaning he at that point didnt expect Sam to join him. I have never seen Sam as someone who bows down to anyone. Sam’s always done what he thinks is right. And I dont buy that he can be controlled. It doesnt do Sam’s character any justice. He goes by Dean’s judgement only when he is undecided on something (like now probably). If he is sure of something I have rarely seen him back down.
I do agree that Dean is in denial about Sam wanting out of hunting altogether. And am sure he’ll face / accept it sooner or later.
I definitely DON’T want Sam punching Dean b/c that’s not how Sam normally acts or behaves. He’s been angry at Dean plenty of times and has never punched Dean before.
I also think Dean has every right to be upset w/Sam for not looking for him. Who wouldn’t be upset?
This is the thing, though. Dean hasn’t said a word about Sam not looking for him. All of his comments have been in relation to Sam being ‘rusty’, or throwing out the idea that people were dying while he was buying produce and he has no right to question Dean because he took a year off etc; nothing about not looking for him. So Sam, and the fans, have to question exactly what Dean is pissed at Sam about. It’s not until tonight that we find out Dean is also pissed about Sam not looking for him.
Not quite sure if I’m misinterpreting posts here but in relation the punch, I didn’t say I [i]wanted[/i] Sam to hit Dean. However, as is evident from the clip, he [i]did[/i] punch him. It’s most probably because Dean is supernaturally influenced but if it’s not I’d rather it be because Dean pushed him too far than because Dean didn’t have Sam’s dinner on the table.
[quote]This is the thing, though. Dean hasn’t said a word about Sam not looking for him. [/quote]
Well right in episode 1 Dean asks Sam if he looked for him. He shows his displeasure right away. He even indicated that they always break the (so called) promise of not looking for each other becos of their undying love for each other. I think it was very clear that Sam not looking for Dean was a sore point for him.
And since then what has his sore point been, Sam not looking or Sam doing normal?
A friendly warning before this veers too far out of control. This conversation is veering into some confrontational, somewhat repetitive territory. Please take any further debates to the “Let’s Discuss: What is Happening to Sam Winchester” thread. Either that, or I can start a new topic for “Let’s Discuss.” I would prefer though bringing up a thread about the punch after the episode has aired, just so we see what happens.
Thank you.
WOW! wow, wow, wow Tim The Enchanter. This sums up so exactly what I was going to say in reply to Ginger’s post! It’s like you read my mind! I get concerned when fans canonize Dean (or Sam too for that matter) to the extent that they put him on a lofty pedestal and try to make him somehow more than a man; more like a god or a saint. I think that this does a disservice to the character far more than having a conversation with a secondary character ever could. So, Dean talks to Garth? He’s now degraded by this? Sorry, but I don’t see how. Perhaps Garth’s advice or conversation is unwanted, but that’s still not a detriment to Dean in any way and certainly not a negation or degradation of all that Dean is, was and will ever be. And how, exactly, is Garth disrespecting Dean? It’s been established quite firmly that Garth very much likes and admires Dean; there is maybe even a little hero worship there. How is that in any way disrespectful?
I get that you don’t like Garth, and that’s fine as not everyone does, but to argue that a character that you don’t like’s mere presence somehow besmirches your favored character sounds illogical.
I agree with 100% of what you wrote, Tim The Enchanter.
[quote]And…sorry for what I’m about to say but….Dean looks AMAZING in this clip. I love me some cranky Dean. Jensen has to stop getting better looking (Jensen do not stop getting better looking). This show is killing me with the hottness of these guys this season. Once again…sorry… where was I….[/quote]
LOL. I love the way u put it. Its the exact way I feel too. The hotness quotient has gone up so much this season that I’m having to rewatch every scene twice to make sure I didnt miss anything while I was staring (ogling) at Dean. Sam’s really hot too and maybe I’m in a minority here but I liked his hair better in Season 1 & 2.
Jensen’s like wine. I know its cliched but he does seem to keep getting better with age.
Haha CJ! Me too! I often get distracted watching a scene! They both are stunning men. 🙂
Me three!!! You get distracted and have rewatch a scene? I rewatch the scene for the distraction!!! Are they focusing more on the hotness this season? Because I don’t remember the boys this hot in the previous season. And yes, boy-Dean was hot but man-Dean is beyond belief!!!
Agree with CJ. I like Sam’s hair better in S1&2, but strictly on looks – I think S4 is Sam’s best.
I’m absolutely not disagreeing on the handsomeness front but I have noticed that the Js are wearing a lot of foundation this season. Perhaps it’s because the show has lost its older, more washed-out look (I don’t know the technical term for that kind of lighting or filming process) but I’ve noticed facial makeup on them both a lot more this year than in the past. I wonder why the characters of Dean and Sam have to look tanned? It’s not like they live healthy lives (even though Sam does try with his diet of salads lol) so if they were pale, it wouldn’t be OOC. Plus, we’d get to see more Frackles on Jensen 🙂
Although initially I felt tentative about seeing Garth again, after watching the promo’s I have changed my mind. Garth is no Bobby, we all know that, Bobby was amazed that he had survived this long as a hunter. However I think that Garth’s role in this episode will have two jobs. He is basically a good guy who genuinely wants to help and so will hopefully act as a mediator, as it looks like our feisty, damaged guys will need one this week. I hope the other role will be to enable us to see the brothers from an outsiders point of view, we were able to see them this way in their role of hunters in Bitten, but I feel Garth’s observations will be more personal. I enjoy seeing how others view the brothers.
sweetondean I totally and vehemently agree you about the level of hotness Jensen is being to the screen right now. My rewind button is getting worn out!
On a side note, Felicia Day is making another appearance in 8.11. I am going to a Supernova Event this weekend where she will have a panel. Any questions you’d like asked anyone?
Awww jealous! I wanted to go to Nova but I went to Armageddon instead… I did get to have dinner with Mark Pellegrino, so I ain’t complaining!
See if you can get any inside scoop on her new ep! And have fun!
I think you definitely got the better deal here.
I bought a ‘Peace Out Bi#ches’ tshirt as a Felicia Day/Supernatural amalgamation, and definitely plan on fighting my way to the microphone.
P.S. I asked a question in the ‘general comments’ section about DVDs, I’m wondering if as a fellow Aussie you may be able to enlighten me. Thanks.
On Felicia Day’s Twitter
Felicia DayVerified ?@feliciaday 7 Nov Wrapped on #Supernatural! Such a fun/amazing crew to work with 🙂 Now: 3:45am alarm wakes me to go to LA then BRISBANE! #jetsetter
One more sleep to go till Supanova, and she’s coming straight from the Supernatural set. Wahoo!
I like Garth. Even though he’s comic relief, as you said, he is quite intuitive. He will NEVER replace Bobby though, I’m with Dean on this. I will never forgive TPTB for killing him off. Never, never, never. 😥 Okay, that felt good to get off my chest. I love how Dean is so quick to anger, but softens his tone when he realizes he really hurt Garth’s feelings. As for Sam hitting Dean, that is definitely not in character. Sam never lashes out in anger, especially not towards his brother. As other posters have stated, the times that he did he was usually under some kind of influence.
On a shallow note, I agree with you CJ, Jensen is like a fine wine, he is getting better looking with age. I’ve seen him in “Smallville” and “Darkangel”, but it wasn’t until “Supernatural” that I really noticed how drop-dead gorgeous he really is. In fact, I am going to my very first SPN convention next year, and I might faint from nerves upon meeting him. I’m turning into a 50-year-old teenybopper! My friends and family just don’t get it, but I know you all do. 🙄
Have fun at the convention. I’m sure I will faint when I meet Jensen. No amount of preparation will help me get over those fangirl emotions. But thats what I love about this fandom. E’one gets it. E’one is supportive and welcoming. I hope to attend a con someday. But until then I hope u all enjoy it and write about it for the rest of us to enjoy too. Oh and when u do manage to regain consciousness after u see him pls do tell Jensen that his portrayal of purgatory Dean this season is just simply awesome 🙂
I have a super generous sister that bought me a gold ticket for my 50th birthday next year for Toronto 2013. 😛 Otherwise, I don’t think I would have been able ever to attend. The rest, I’m just scraping and saving as much as I can. If it means eating my cats food…or my cats, I will! 😀 By the way, I think she’s hoping this will shut me up already, but it’s just making me talk about it even more. I’ll be on a SPN cloud until then. Ha.
[quote] In fact, I am going to my very first SPN convention next year, and I might faint from nerves upon meeting him. I’m turning into a 50-year-old teenybopper! My friends and family just don’t get it, but I know you all do. :roll:[/quote]
I’ll take your fifty, add 7 years and that’s me too! Are you going to Vegas? I hope I don’t faint. Sometimes I think I am relieved I’m not 20 something or I might do something really crazy! Ha. I keep trying to convince myself I love to watch them because I have sons. Who am I kidding!?
Have fun in Vegas. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas? 😛 I’m going to Toronto because it is the closest geographically, I live in Montreal. I’d love to go to Vancouver, but it’s cheaper traveling to Europe than it is traveling in my own country! To see the boys in their element must be super thrilling.
Garth is alright may not be everybody’s idea of a hunter but like all hunters he is willing to put himself on the line to help others.
Sam hitting Dean? whats caused that is anybodys guess. Promos can be deceptive sometimes I just hope what we get is balanced.
This seems like a necessary episode, I am glad that if anything, at least the brothers will finally hash out their problems. I am also excited about the return of Garth, he is incredibly insightful and I am glad that he will finally point out the tension between the brothers. I can’t wait to see tonight’s episode. I am glad that the brothers will finally be honest with each other about their year apart. Though it looks like things will get escalated, the previews have tricked me before.
OMG! Has anyone seen the new TV Line spoiler video?! Awesome stuff!
With that said…I am in need of a spoiler intervention! How do I quit this very bad habit??? Help!
I just saw it after seeing your comment and a 100 OMGs are not enough
Oh…………wow…………..ok everyone, I think maybe all conversation might need to go on hold until after tonight’s episode 😀 OMG.
*fans self*
EDIT: oh that is over a bunch of episodes, but still. It is VERY spoilery so be warned
I KNOW!!!! Now…back to my “problem”….
Yep I swore I was quitting spoilers too … but …
[quote]EDIT: oh that is over a bunch of episodes, but still. It is VERY spoilery so be warned[/quote]
Yeah…I should have mentioned that but I was somewhat distracted.
Okay, now I’m really intrigued and I love spoilers. Where do I go for this OMG feature! Sorry m1tchells, but I’m an enabler, never was very good at helping people with their problems! 😀
TVLine and Supernatural in Google should find it. It is the first result. Then come back to us, we will be waiting right here 😀
That promo has me all tingly! BRING IT!
I can’t quit the spoilers…I have tried…but…they’re so gooooood!
Oh and by the way….it’s on our spoiler page now 😆
Yes, I finally did find it and oh, brother how art thou indeed! 😛
[quote]Sorry m1tchells, but I’m an enabler, never was very good at helping people with their problems! :D[/quote]
haha! Well at least I’m in good company. Maybe we need a support group…. 😉
I’m liking your previews like I love your reviews, sweetondean!
As for Garth, to me he’s like an adorable puppy dog. Can’t help but get fond of him. And he’s proved he isn’t dumb. So yes, I’m happy to see him again.
The tension between the boys will keep me up tight all through the episode I think. It’s almost unbearable at times like that. Sam did shoot Dean with rocksalt and tried to shoot him with an empty revolver in ‘Asylum’, but he was under the influence of a spirit Dr. Ellicott. Dean went at Sam with an axe in ‘Sex & Violence’ under the siren’s spell. Sam tried to strangle Dean in ‘when the Levee Breaks’ under the influence of Ruby & demon blood but I can’t recall pulling a gun before while in their right minds. Yikes! Can’t wait for tonight!
[quote]And…sorry for what I’m about to say but….Dean looks AMAZING in this clip. I love me some cranky Dean. Jensen has to stop getting better looking (Jensen do not stop getting better looking). This show is killing me with the hottness of these guys this season. Once again…sorry… where was I….
[/quote]
Don’t be sorry! Dean does look a-freakin’-mazing. I love me some cranky Dean, or sad Dean, or goofy Dean, or any kind of Dean, any day. Not that I don’t love Sam, cuz I do, but man, only Dean can turn my insides to pudding just at the sight of him! Oh, yeah, back to serious analysis… Er, I forgot what I was going to say. 😳
Either the black goo is Leviathan or Demon I think it’s interesting that Dean got possessed.
For five years, nothing possessed Dean perhaps because the theme of season 1 – 5 is for Dean to be angelic vessel thus Demons and supernaturals avoids him.
But I love season six when they introduced the x-file looking brain possessing worm. They possessed Dean. Reminds me of ‘Skin’ which I love. Looking forward to a darker Dean/possessed Dean. I hope they write the proper ramification when supernaturals possesses victims.
Demons fuck people up when they possess people. People shouldn’t turn out alright after the ordeal but except Jeffrey, they never show it. Even after Sam got possessed by Meg, the experience should’ve fucked with Sam’s mind. I hope they show it this time.
Man, what an episode!!! Loved it! One of the best yet, starting to clear the air some. 🙂
I didn’t think anything could ever be as bad as Fallen Idols, but Adam Glass managed it. The entire script was unimaginative, cliched, and flat out boring. I think a first year college student could have done this well, but probably better.
The absolute only thing that was good about the episode was Jensen does, in fact, get hotter and hotter and he managed to sell his part of a very bad script.
At first when they mentioned the tomb of the unknown Confederate soldier, I had to look it up, because I thought it was BS. But it does actually exist, apparently. In that sense, I thought the concept was cool. However, I have to agree that this script was not as compelling as it could have been, and therefore a lot of the dialogue felt flat. I also thought the pacing was a little slow and the acting of the secondary characters was poor (probably in large part due to the crappy dialogue).
The best parts IMO were the coin montage and brothers’ scenes toward the end. I did like how they finally cleared the air. All that anger from Dean…the mentioning of Amy, Ruby, Cas, Soulless Sam, and Bobby – I guess all that talk about a “reset” with no mention of prior canon was flat out wrong.
The rest of it…I’m honestly just not sure how I feel. I love Garth, but Bobby’s memory is sacred and still a sore spot for me. I felt that they didn’t need to do that for script, anyway. Garth could have just been the jolly good friend he’s always been without “replacing” Bobby…I mean, come on. I really do feel like it was almost an unnecessary insult to Bobby’s memory.
I also felt that with a ghost that powerful and Dean that angry, no way he wouldn’t have shot Garth to get to Sam – Garth wouldn’t have stood a chance against that spector in any version of reality. When DEAN tried to stop it the thing nearly killed him – and might have – if it hadn’t decided to possess him. Garth shouldn’t have been able to talk Dean down even for a minute. Just – didn’t make sense at all to me.
BUT…moving on. The fight between the brothers was good. Very realistic. I love how they’re being emotionally honest and open with each other for the first time in forever. I was VERY happy that Sam finally stood up for himself at the end.
Overall, this episode didn’t jive with me the way the past 5 episodes have. It wasn’t a hit, in my book. IMO it was a mediocre episode with S7 – level pacing and writing (meaning slow and generally poor in the dialogue department), unnecessary elements (Garth standing in for Bobby and the spector not attacking him), and only the brothers’ confrontation – which there could’ve been more of – saved it.
My but there was venom in those last couple of lines wasn’t there? Not sure how you walk that back – on either side.
Though I do genuinely believe that they are setting this up to lay all these ‘spectres’ (specters? Sometimes I don’t know whats US spelling, European spelling or just plain wrong) of past wrongs to rest.
[quote] I guess all that talk about a “reset” with no mention of prior canon was flat out wrong.[/quote]
Well since the canon they’ve decided to remember consists of Sam is a bad brother and a worse person, and Dean is the poor long suffering brother, I’m less than impressed.
[quote]Well since the canon they’ve decided to remember consists of Sam is a bad brother and a worse person, and Dean is the poor long suffering brother, I’m less than impressed.
[/quote]
Respectfully, I think that’s an extremely oversimplified, cynical, and unbalanced interpretation of canon. Sam is not the “bad brother” or the “worse person” just because he’s made mistakes in his past, and/or choices Dean didn’t agree with. Sam and Dean are flawed heroes who’ve both hurt each other over the years many times. They’re also both pretty long suffering in my opinion just to put up with each other. But I am able to separate how Dean or Sam feels in the moment toward his brother from what is objectively true in the situation. And what is objectively true based on canon is that Sam did what he thought had to be done to either save Dean or save the world. Did he make mistakes? Sure. Was he always right? No. Did he hurt his brother? Yes. To err is human. And again – flawed heroes. If they never walked that edge of right and wrong and sometimes tipped over, there’d be no character development. None of that canon makes him the “bad brother,” nor Dean a saint. Sam also got some of his own shots in this episode, bringing up one of Dean’s less than stellar moments – killing Amy. But I don’t believe in playing that kind of point-scoring game with the brothers, so that’s as far as I go.
Hey Bamboo,
I saw the Spector issue a little differently than you did. The Spector only goes after whomever he has a beef with, unless he sees something more meaty to want to involve himself in. So, when the deputy took on Dean it was because the Spector inside him saw Dean as a kindred spirit. Then when Garth intervened, there was nothing in it for the Spector because Garth has no baggage, so he was able to stall the Spector somewhat. I can see why Dean/Spector didn’t shoot Garth because of that. The scene worked dramatically for me in that way. I would have liked a little more info on the Spector himself, that seemed a little rushed. And the fact that it was a brother vs. brother conflict going back to the Civil War seemed like a very important issue that begged more detailed explanation that we didn’t get.
Thank you, E. That was a good explanation. I am going to watch the episode a second time to see if there are things that I missed.
I can’t stop my head from spinning. This episode ROCKED!
It’s certainly all coming to a head isn’t it? I hope they stick the landing 😀
I’m actually stunned here, I loved a lot of it too. The ghost story was weak, but everything else was actually good. I’m working on a somewhat glowing review.
That montage to “Fell on Black Days” showing the movement of the coin was actually amazing. Loved how that was shot!
[quote]That montage to “Fell on Black Days” showing the movement of the coin was actually amazing. Loved how that was shot!
[/quote]
I agree; me too.
Stunned is a good description. I am still reeling. Hope I can sleep tonight. Guess I didn’t pay as much attention to the ghost story. I was just too stoked watching the boys and build-up. It didn’t disappoint. As Eilf said, gonna be hard to take any of that back and hope they stick the landing as well.
Since I can’t record anymore(crap DirecTV dropped CW), I have to go online and rewatch it at midnight! I could rewatch this episode all night!
I can barely remember the ghost story, my brain is too full of all the bro stuff. Right now my stomach is in a knot…though that could be the cookies I was compulsively eating without noticing out of stress! The montage was excellent. Supernatural gives good montage.
Man I hope they don’t just let this all slide and that we finish getting this crap out!
I feel like I need a little lie down!
Doh, I just got it. Realizing how your brother really feels about stuff: ‘The penny dropped’ Jeez… that’s a really … terrible … pun. 😀
OMG. I never even…. Ha! D’oh! 😛
WOW, ok missed that… really clever for an Adam Glass episode. Cudos to him for that nice little tidbit. It bothers me that Dean is still carrying all that around despite the lip service that he’s given to forgiveness. Hmmmm.
Living in Australia, we are a week behind the States, and I can NEVER wait that long. So I get my son to download the episodes from Pirate Bay. They are usually streaming about an hour after the episode has aired. In fact he is downloading it for me as right now – I will be watching in ten minutes – I can’t wait….breath…..breath.
One of my co-workers told me about http://www.1channel.ch
That’s where I watch it on the Wed. nights I work until midnight. Just watched it now. It was number 3 under TV shows.
That happened to me too!! Soooo frustrating!!!