TV Fanatic Roundtable: Supernatural 10.09, “The Things We Left Behind”
Well, you knew this one would be interesting. What happens when four “Supernatural” reviewers all experiencing various forms of disappointment with not only the midseason finale but the season ten so far decide to answer some burning questions? Some rather entertaining answers, that’s what. Myself and TV Fanatic staffers Narsimha Chintaluri, Carla Day, Sean McKenna all taken on the Mark of Cain storyline (or lack of one), Castiel’s babysitting service, the total uselessness of Crowley and where we see Supernatural heading (we’re not that encouraged). Here’s a couple of my favorite quotes:
Narismha: Now my excitement’s more deflated than one of those balloons you have hanging around your house like six months after the person’s birthday it was meant for.
Carla: I’m growing tired of the personal stories sidetracking the show from what the core of the show has always been. I want to see more hunting and less of the melodrama. I’d also like to see a return to a strong mini-arc. I’ve felt that has been missing this season.
Sean: We need a good story, and that will drive the character aspect. Sometimes I wonder if having an end date for the series (as much as I enjoy it) might allow the writers to give it that direction that feels like we’re headed towards something, and not just waiting for what the CW wants to do with it. It’s such a tough spot because I enjoy the show and want to give it the benefit of the doubt, but it’s got to step it up when it returns in 2015.
Alice: I was expecting something resembling a mytharc. I was expecting a story that was actually fluid with the season long theme and made sense. Then I realized there isn’t season long theme and everyone is drifting wayward in a total daze without any direction or purpose. It’s kind of like watching my mother-in-law.
http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/12/supernatural-round-table-castiels-adventures-in-babysitting/
Here’s Sean’s review as well. He gave it a 3.7 out of 5.0.
http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/12/supernatural-season-10-episode-9-review-the-things-we-left-behin/
So, do you have any harsh opinions, good or bad? They’re welcome!
It’s hard to say where, exactly, the surprise is coming from. In S8, Carver touted a great personal journey for the characters, arcs for both Dean and Sam. Purgatory’s story finished in 3 episodes. Sam’s normal life with Amelia took a little longer. Neither contained a resolution to what they’d purported to be. What did Dean learn from his year in God’s armpit? That he was a killer? That he was capable of befriending a monster? Dean already knew those things and his PTSD “killer instinct” vanished without a trace when he let Kate go. He had a reason, of sorts, to do it, being as his best friend was a vampire, but that was neither clearly shown, nor was it ever raised as to why he’d done it – other than “people change their minds”. What did Sam learn from his year of normal life with a woman he thought he loved? Since the relationship ended, not with Dean’s return but with the return of Amelia’s husband, why was Sam so pissed at Dean when they teamed up again? For guilting him on the matter of dropping Kevin like a hot potato? For dragging him back into a life he could’ve chosen to walk away from at any time? If Sam loved Amelia more than he’d thought possible (and aside from the fact that he appeared to have forgotten entirely about Jessica and his two or possibly three or four years of normal life at college), then why on being offered it again did he not show up? It’s a truth in life that when a guy say “we need to think about this” at the suggestion of running away together, he ain’t feeling love everlasting.
The discovery of the Men of Letters and the bunker seemed to be a great step forward. Finally, they had a safe place and “the greatest repository of supernatural knowledge in the world”. Aside from the fact that the set looked like a small town’s poorly subsidised library, and was sitting in plain view of a row of backyards, the bunker didn’t do much for the brothers other than giving them a place to sleep and another place to fight.
The trials to close Hell. It seemed possible that this would be the journey that finally got rid of the demon blood in Sam, returning him to normal and completely human. That alone was a good enough reason for me to see Dean step back and play second string, although putting on an apron and talking about chicken soup was a bit too much OOC. However, when push came to shove, that resolution was never delivered. Sam went through the fasting and the debilitation, he gave his confession and begged (we think) for forgiveness. He appeared to be “curing” Crowley. Then he stopped and when it came time, he used a priest’s blood to cure his brother. Demon blood – there or not? Aside from having a place to live, the brothers were at the same place at the end of the season as they’d been in the beginning. The world was neither better nor worse. Dean couldn’t see a light, but Sam could but they were no closer to finding the damned thing than they’ve ever been.
S9 was far worse. What was the purpose of angel factions on earth? Aside, I mean from delivering some of the worst dialogue and most boring monologues in televised history? What was the purpose of Abaddon’s corporate/army rising to take over the world? What happened to them? Nothing, of course. What was the purpose of Sam’s fury with Dean over choosing a path to make sure he lived? His light at the end of the tunnel and his promise to help Dean find it sure died a fast and unsung death. Did we get anything other than Sam telling his brother that it was his choice to die? Is that a rational argument when the deed is done? It wasn’t great that Dean made the decision for him, but it was hardly the first time and Sam’s anger seemed to be unappeased by anything. By the time Dean took on the Mark I was damn well wishing he’d let Sam die and be done with it. How much whining does it take to make a point?
Dean’s assertion that he would hunt alone so that he couldn’t hurt anyone else? But then he couldn’t, so crawl back he did. In 1 episode.
They found a truly hidden repository of supernatural knowledge, wreathed in almost impenetrable illusions, filled with all the really good stuff from the bunker, presumably squirreled away by Cuthbert, but after killing the guy and discovering Dean didn’t have as much control over the blade as he might’ve thought, they forgot about that. And, apparently, about Dean’s impassioned speech at the end of S8 detailing that they didn’t need to close Hell because they had everything they needed to take out the bad guys together.
The Veil was supposedly closed. Did the discovery of a magical back door to Heaven open it somehow? Metatron and Co. were using the back door to come and go from earth but the use of it alone didn’t seem to affect the Veil. So, are we supposed to just decide for ourselves that, yeah, the Veil must have been opened at some point offscreen – or it’s still shut, and none of the angels know what to do.
Reaper lore was trashed for what? So that Tessa could return to give Dean another piece of advice and die?
Metatron’s entire aim – it seemed – was to throw out the angels for some quiet writing time so that he could hammer out a ‘script’ that would ensure he was seen as a hero and everyone else died. As petty as he was, that was less mega-villain than small-town-chip-on-the-shoulder nutcase. And our season-long angst, melodrama, chest-beating resolution? “I lied.”
Well, Sam lied and Dean died. And – correct me, PLEASE! if I’m wrong – but it seemed to me that Dean’s soul was trapped in his body until Crowley slid the First Blade under his hand and called him back. Now, it could be that Dean’s soul zipped down to Hell and got a crash tour in transformative torture. It could be that the Mark itself turned him into a demon. It could be that there was a tiny remnant of a fledgling demon in Dean after 40 years in Hell. Possibilities but no answers. Dean wakes up, a demon. And not just a demon, but a Knight of Hell. His preferred demonic activities appear to be drunken karaoke, pool, darts and banging the local waitress. Wasn’t that Dean’s usual Saturday night? Drunken karaoke aside, that is, since some fans still remember his unease with being noticed by God with the line “I don’t like being singled out at birthday parties!”. Still maybe the karaoke was the Knight coming out. Crowley sent a few demons every now and then to feed the Mark. Dean killed them. Wow, what a shocking and horrifying way to spend the time for a Knight of Hell! If he “didn’t want to become that thing” I sure don’t blame him, but picking a better town than Beulah might help without needing an angel to throw him into the sun.
It *was* a show about two brothers, who had only each other to lean on in a fight against vast supernatural powers that had been manipulating them from before they were born. Powers that far outreached and outgunned mere humans. Their weapons, for the most part, couldn’t touch most of what they were fighting, but they had ingenuity and intelligence, courage and love behind them and that overcame almost everything they were faced with.
In the last 4 seasons, it’s become a show about two guys who’ve spent way too much time together trying to get away from each other, their hunting skills fading or gone, a damned good thing they keep meeting secondary characters who despite no training or knowledge or experience can beat the monsters that have captured them and are about to kill them. Sniping at each other and bringing up the past without ever resolving the events that had such enormous impacts. Fighting on to contain or destroy the threats against the world and for the most part making no difference to the outcomes whatsoever, accompanied by an angel who has been human twice before (S5 and S7) but who can’t remember it, it would seem; and a demon who rules Hell but isn’t sure he wants to. In a word, epic. Not.
And it has absolutely nothing to do with the characters or actors – they ain’t the ones writing the lines or “plotting” the action, and boy, do I use that word advisedly. The actors struggle to figure where their characters have gone in the mish-mash of unfinished ideas, plot bunnies and writer-self-insertions and the characters go round and round, wandering in and out of other people’s stories, unable to find one of their own. And the “writers” of this show, sit in their office, twitting to the world how brilliant they are. And some of the fans feed that lunacy.
That’s probably harsh enough, right? 😉
I loved this show with a passion. Loved both brothers and the way their strengths and weaknesses were balanced out by the other. Loved the characters of Bobby and Ellen, Rufus and Ash. Loved the overarching mythological background and the care put into the monster hunts – salt and iron, the Key of Solomon and the traps and sigils and the wardings and guards. Loved the fact that almost every monster on the show had been human once and the implications just of that. I loved that Dean and Sam actually killed monsters. Were skilled in what they did. Put their own lives aside because they believed it was more important than themselves, loved even more that both of them struggled with that idea, tried to fight against it from time to time. That show has gone, drowned and suffocated in a lack of imagination, a lack of skill, a lack of life experience and knowledge of people’s behaviour and motivations, a lack of interest in getting it right, and a severe and obvious lack of knowledge of the characters and any interest in them. I’ve waited and waited for a sign that the writers could actually write. In three years, there’s been no sign and since Edlund left, the quality has fallen away completely.
Ah well.
Bahhumbug,
With a few minor changes in interpretation, this is exactly how I feel.
Oh, how low we have fallen.
I do so miss the brothers!!
“It *was* a show about two brothers, who had only each other to lean on in a fight against vast supernatural powers that had been manipulating them from before they were born. Powers that far outreached and outgunned mere humans. Their weapons, for the most part, couldn’t touch most of what they were fighting, but they had ingenuity and intelligence, courage and love behind them and that overcame almost everything they were faced with.”
THIS! This was my show. Thank you. I want it back.
I do not know how much whining it takes to make a point? if there had been genuine focus on Sam last year we might of found out , if he had been allowed the right to be unhappy instead of ”he should know Dean will always save him”whether he wants it or not trope both the show and fandom developed so there be ok over what was done and do not make Dean feel bad and says sorry at the end then maybe things would of been different.
I was struck by this part of the round table discussion:
[quote]Carla: Castiel’s determination in helping Claire is another sign of his growing humanity. He’s feeling emotions and connections in a deeper way than before. I’m not sure if that will ultimately be a good or bad thing for Cas, but for now I’m enjoying this side of him.
Sean: Look, it made sense, especially after Hannah decided to let her vessel go home. And I like that he was trying to do good.[/quote]
Just curious… how exactly is Cas feeling his humanity? He’s wearing an empty shell that is devoid of any human sensibility at all. Clearly the show is drawing some kind of parallel between Hannah letting her vessel go and Cas seeking out Claire… but my question is where is Cas getting all this “feeling” from anyway.. Jimmy is dead, or so they are saying… a plot development that I loath BTW, for it’s complete lack of logic or sense. So, how exactly is Cas feeling anything? Shouldn’t he have reverted back to “warrior of God status as soon as Jimmy died? Why is he still seemingly feeling things like remorse, a fundamentally human emotion, when the human he’s wearing has vacated the building? The problem people are having with this stems from Lucifer blowing Cas up in season 5. The conclusion was drawn that Jimmy couldn’t be brought back from that, so he must be dead now. Funny though that they could get his body back all nice and neat. Why can they get the body back and not the soul? Adam was also brought back in season 5…all of him, body AND soul and he’d been given a hunter’s funeral and had been dead for years. So why can Adam get his body AND soul back but Jimmy can’t? If it was true that Jimmy was utterly destroyed in season 5, then Cas should have had to come back to earth in his true form and found another vessel entirely and Misha replaced with another actor… nothing else makes sense. The fact that Cas is now supposedly feeling the feelings of his dead body vessel is ludicrous. Angels don’t have humanity and they don’t have feelings, that is the product of their vessels. So Jimmy can’t be dead, period.
Ah, this is where I must (respectfully) disagree. I don’t see the angels as emotionless at all. I think they have proven that even without meat suits they are full of emotions. Zachariah hated humans and I don’t equate that to the man he was wearing at the time. Rafael conspired and manipulated, was full of pride and importance even before he acquired his man suit. Abner took the suit of a cruel man but it was not that man that gave him his love for his new family.
I feel the angels were given a directive, to love humans and watch over them. They were told they had no choice, they were soldiers. But if you have no choice then being told you had no choice would be futile. They were ordered to obey, some made the choice to obey whether they knew that the orders were not coming from god, but from uppity angels. Some rebelled, some tore out their grace. They made choices even if they chose not to choose. They hated or felt contempt for humans and I imagine there were some that liked the humans and even envied them. I don’t think that the vessel gives them emotions, I think living with and watching the humans on a daily basis makes them see things differently, just as our own experiences make us who we are. So I have no problem with Jimmy being gone, Castiel the angel has his own emotions which makes his existence on earth an even greater learning experience. But even if the vessels soul is present the angel can, and often does, suppress those “feelings”. I am sure many of the souls being inhabited by angels did not like what was being done using their bodies, but at no time did I notice the angels really giving a hoot about their vessels feelings.
I understand what you are saying, I just look at it differently, therefore I have no difficulty with the notion that the soul of the vessel is “gone” in that respect. Obviously there are other inconsistencies with regard to the human soul, but angels having emotions is not one of the, IMO.