WFB Deja Vu Review: Supernatural 9.16 “Blade Runners”
“Blade Runners” was one of the major turning points of the season. Crowley’s addiction is exposed. Dean gets his hands on the First Blade. Sam sees for the first time the dominating effect it has on his brother. Crowley hatches ploys within plots within schemes after he sees both Sam and Dean’s reactions to the Blade. There is so much to talk about and our reviewers had so much to say!
Nightsky
Oddly, the thing that struck me the most on my rewatch of “Blade Runners” was not some new insight into the plot (although there were a few of those). Rather it was the fact that, repeatedly, the three WFB reviewers who were tweeting all detected the same nuances in scenes. We all watched the episodes with different perspectives and through different critical lenses, yet certain scenes and performances jumped out to all of us. Here are five examples of this convergence:
Nightsky: “…and I love watching Crowley’s expressions in the background. You can just see his mind working out what is happening.”
Bookdal: “Crowley’s expression = “I’m gonna get me some Dean love and piss off Moose””
Gerry: “Crowley assessing the situation . . .”
Bookdal: “Magnus taking away his will is foreshadowing of an emptied Dean. Again, probably by accident.”
Nightsky: “Between Magnus’ spell and the MoC impact, Dean’s head is up for grabs.”
Bookdal: “Interesting ep is thematically tied to “Sacrifice”, by accident, in that everyone wants to be Dean’s creepy partner but he wants only Sam.”
Nightsky: “Magnus wants Dean for a companion too. Crowley has competition. Sam has to stand in line.”
Gerry: “Dean has no lack of offers for howling at the moon.”
Nightsky: “Crowley is always listening intently. Never knows what info he can use in the future”
Gerry: “Crowley knows what’s going on, a push here, a tweak there . . .”
Bookdal: “Ross-Leming and Buckner scripts are pretty revealing. This has to be a long con on Crowley’s part.”
Nightsky: “I wonder if Crowley calculated that he needed to keep the blade away from Dean because Dean would get too powerful too fast”
Bookdal: “Crowley was smart to take the blade – it’s not only the bargaining chip but also the lure for Dean. It embeds him in their lives.”
Gerry: “Boys were really taking Crowley for granted. Also, foreshadowing as Crowley is wary of Dean the killer.”
In each case, these comments were tweeted within seconds of each other. Several were about Mark Sheppard’s portrayal of Crowley. I think that says a lot about the strength of this “supporting character’s” impact on the show! I think is also says that several themes that were critical to the season’s plots were all woven together into this one story.
Aside from the dynamics of our observations, actually, for me, Crowley’s reactions to Dean were the most revealing aspect of this episode this time. The first time we all watched “Blade Runners”, we were caught up in the implications and possible parallels of Crowley’s addiction and Dean’s surprising reaction to the First Blade. Now that we all know what was already happening and would yet happen to Dean, the more subtle plot line of Crowley’s point of view was fascinating. You could almost visualize the wheels of understanding moving in Crowley’s mind as he watched Dean with the Blade. I believe we were witnessing the strength of Crowley’s intellect, taking in the situation and forming moves and countermoves. This is when he first allowed himself to believe he might have a “howling” partner, if and only if, he could pace or control both Dean’s bloodlust and Sam’s protective interference. I’m going to leave it at that, since everyone else has a great deal to say too!
Gerry Weaver
My take way: This is one of Ross-Leming and Buckner’s better episodes. Their batting average improved this season, which is a trajectory I like to see. I liked a lot of the emerging dynamics this episode.
Crowley is at his slippery best, showing us the addiction he struggles with and pointing out Sam and Dean were the instruments of his fall. We got a lot of Crowley’s point of view this episode, which is a necessary part of increasing his role so we’ll be willing to follow his story away from the boys next season.
We got just as much of Crowley the long con player, with so many lovely scenes of him in the background, often between Sam and Dean, giving a nudge here, a small push there, but always allowing the boys to think they are leading him. It’s all reminiscent of Ruby in season four. Crowley is what happens when you not watching, as Mark Sheppard says, and the boys were not watching.
This episode we saw Sam moving closer to Dean while Dean took the definitive step away as he grasped the blade. I like that Dean did not take the blade on his own but had it forced into his hand. I loved the look Jensen Ackles gave when he felt the power coursing through his veins. Magnus tells him he’ll come to look forward to the feelings, but he’s underestimating Dean as he underestimated Sam. Dean already likes the feelings. This show does a nice job portraying addiction, from Sam to Crowley and now Dean. All know about being drawn to self-destruction.
I liked the way Sam snaps into action when Magnus banishes him, determinedly making his way back again and making no bones at all about Dean being his brother. I think we’ll see a lot of this Sam next season.
I liked the different dynamics between Sam and Crowley and Dean and Crowley. Sam came out of “Sacrifice” with a clear and hard view of the demon. He has no problem refusing Crowley’s overtures. What he doesn’t realize is Crowley is allowing Sam to underestimate him—and that as Sam pushes Crowley away, Dean is allowing the demon closer to fill the space he feels from his perception of Sam’s absence. Dean’s ability to form relationships is tied to his protective instincts. Crowley knows just how to play on those instincts.
I liked the way we see Sam, Crowley and Magnus all wanting Dean—and that only Sam can get through to him. Crowley and Magnus both want to collect their very own Winchester doll, so they can wind him up when they want to howl at the moon. Sam wants to protect Dean, even as he is still healing from his own hurts. The bond is still there, reaching through the power of the blade.
I think the boys still keep each other human, despite the pain, the anger and the mistakes each has felt and made. I hope season ten will show us this was the theme all along.
Bookdal
I have to admit that more and more I am enjoying Ross-Leming and Buckner scripts, which yeah, that’s a surprise to me too. There was a lot going on in this episode, from Crowley’s addiction to human blood to Dean’s first encounter with the blade, and that is not even addressing the men of letters history or Abaddon’s stalking of the boys and Crowley.
Overall I enjoyed this episode. It had many threads to unravel. I’m convinced that Crowley’s addiction is in part a long con, a way to get Dean Winchester on his side. How perfectly reminiscent is Crowley of season four demon blood addicted Sam and how seductive is he, much like Ruby. He’s inserting himself bit by bit between the brothers and that is a brilliant and maniacal move by a skilled political manipulator. If you can’t kill them, well then separate them, and better yet, steal one from the other, right from beneath his nose. And we know now, from the season finale, that Crowley was very much aware of what was happening to Dean, what could happen to him. And since much of Crowley’s torture and other interactions invoke the “mad scientist”, the fact that he hung back during the blade scene makes sense. He was assessing and calculating what he saw to see how best to use it to his advantage. Crowley’s taking of the blade in the final scene was genius – it was not only about having a bargaining chip but also the best way to insert himself between Sam and Dean, which I believe has been his agenda since the beginning of the season. He’s a general and this is a new strategy in his war against the boys, in my opinion.
Alongside Crowley’s addiction and sobriety comes Dean’s “awakening” with the blade. My first reading of Dean’s reaction to the blade has not changed since I first watched this episode. Jensen chooses to use expressions of arousal when Dean first touches the blade, first clutches it, which is an interesting choice, given the context. It’s as if Dean is power celibate, as if he has this dormant desire/capacity that gets activated by the blade – and for me it makes sense. Dean is a character who has the ability to get off on power – we’ve seen this potential in selected scenes across the series, from his torture of Alistair to his gleeful murder sprees in purgatory, to name a few. But this episode reinforces something we know about Dean and something he knows about himself – Sam keeps him human just as much as Dean keeps Sam human. They are each other’s touchstone, each other’s moral compass. In probably what is accidental, the beginning of Dean’s demon arc echoes what happened in The End verse. How so? One brother consented to a possession and is now disappearing into that possession, especially as that brother feels abandoned, set adrift. The redemptive scene in “The End” was Dean’s admission that these brothers were stronger together than apart, that even though they were each other’s weakness, the strength of their brotherhood and partnership far outweighed their individual faults and flaws. Now we see this separation through a slightly different mirror – instead of Sam being abandoned, it is Dean who was rejected. But the redemptive scene here is that we know eventually Sam’s voice will reach Dean in his darkness.
Other tidbits from the episode are Magnus’s zoo which I hope comes back but yeah, this is Supernatural, so I’m sure it won’t. It’s disappeared and showed up in Australia so Jesse the disappeared antichrist kid can curate it.
One issue I had with this episode, though, is a recurrent issue I’ve had since Carver took over. There was almost too much information in this myth episode and it reveals the problem of pacing and structure that has plagued the show for two seasons now. Unless and until the show figures out how to more fully manage and allocate its myth across the totality of the episodes, we are going to continually find this problem of storyline vomit. It’s egregious but entirely fixable if they would just figure out how to distribute the story’s mytharc through the season instead of reserving it for episodes 1, 2, 5, 6, 9-11, 14, 20-23. (I played with the episode numbers, but you get my drift.)
Nate Winchester
· Oh NOW we see Sam finally researching Cain.
· Seeing Henry W in flashbacks makes me wish they had kept him for at least 2-3 episodes before killing him.
· I’d kind of laugh if Crowley had picked up a Catholic, ending up with purified blood and accidentally curing himself.
· What IF they had gotten Snooki to be Crowley’s bunk buddy & drug supplier?
· Oh sure, NOW they care about exorcising a demon. What IF they had just stabbed Snooki?
· How DID Snooki get back to New Jersey?
· O blood? The universal donor? You couldn’t pick up a more common, less usable blood type? Man demons really ARE evil.
· Kind of funny that Sam can just drink demon blood to get powers but demons have to mainline human blood to get feels.
· I also wonder if, like that one Angel episode, the demon might have appreciated being free from Snooki.
· Maybe Cain was SPEAKING METAPHORICALLY about the deepest part of the ocean.
· It’s… pretty damn creepy to watch the Winchesters intervene with Crowley. “How dare you be less evil!”
· How is Abaddon worse than Crowley? WHERE have they shown that in the show?
· The blade/trench thing makes NO sense if you know the history.
· Awww, poor girl in plaid… the cutest brunettes always die. =*(
· That’s twice in this show we’ve seen evil following from Windows tablets… “Go Android. We guarantee that no witches or demons will bother you.”
· WHAT is up with Dean & the MILF scene? Time waster much? Those seconds could have been used elsewhere.
· Yeah, how DO you know all the MoL are dead? Would be funny if like… somewhere hanging out in Romania or something.
· “How did you ever function without me?” “Well we had writers that respected us & remembered canon.”
· His fortress is invisible… shouldn’t it also be intangible? Otherwise couldn’t demons find it just by feeling around?
· Henry + Cuthbert would ALSO be a better spinoff series.
· “We could put a stop to all that…” But I’m not going to bother later because… ???
· How did Dean enter the room without spotting the blade? Shouldn’t he have like… tingled?
· Still laugh that Sam tromps through the woods without using his machete.
· “I separated the ordinary…” What, the FORMER VESSEL OF SATAN isn’t good enough for your collection?
[Nate, how did you miss the crystal skull??]
· So Dean loses his sword & gun and DOESN’T bother to pick up ANY OF THE OTHER WEAPONS IN THE ROOM?
· “Give me your hand.” Dean then stabs the guy and we all laugh.
· “All thought will be drained out of you.” It’s like you were written by the S9 writers.
· I’m surprised Cuthbert didn’t drain Dean’s mind BEFORE GIVING HIM A STABBING WEAPON!
· And a shapeshifter violation of canon. Also, Sam may have wanted to keep the body as a shield against the gun.
· “Dean. …Dean…” WHY DON’T YOU GO STAB CROWLEY RIGHT THE F** NOW!
· & the moment with the car, NOW I would believe Dean would take the MoC.
· “Dean, NOW I’ll bring up killing Crowley & not when it would have been… relevant.”
· “I’ll hold onto this until you locate Abaddon.” “No biggie, let’s just do a summoning spell right the f* now.”
Wow. This is… there’s no other way to put it, this is the best-worst episode of the season. No typo, of all the episodes of the season that you could watch over and over again, this is the worst of them. Or… maybe it’s of all the canon-character-logic-plot-common sense destroying episodes of the season, this one is the easiest to watch.
In either case, there is plenty to like in this episode: Mark Sheppard mainlining the scenery even as his character does blood, Cuthbert the smarmy villain, Sam acting more like a real character and less of a blank slate for us to all argue over, some great set design… (and more I’m sure our fine commenters will provide).
On the other hand, there is SO much wrong in this episode… to expand on the points I tweeted or didn’t:
1. Sam & Dean actually fighting AGAINST someone’s redemption.
2. Sam suggesting they kill Crowley, AFTER they left a house that rendered him powerless and Dean already had raging murder-boner.
3. Dean completely forgoing all the weapons IN A ROOM FILLED WITH THEM to just forfeit to the bad guy.
4. If Cuthbert knew so much about the MoC, does that mean he should know that Dean can’t die now? So… why wave the gun around? Was he hoping Dean wouldn’t call his bluff, even though Dean should have known that he was useless to the man, dead?
5. So Cuthbert was advocating being proactive… then he doesn’t want to be?
6. Cuthbert doesn’t even try pretending to be an ally just to get into the bunker and steal things from its collection?
7. He has NO interest in Sam being the former vessel for Lucifer? Really? And before you say he may not know, let me remind you that this guy apparently knows how the MoC would affect Dean; and when the apocalypse that Sam was involved with happened 4 years ago, Cuthbert WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO WITNESS. (Spell for everything? Obviously scrying would be one such thing and any sane man would be doing that to see if Satan is about to destroy the world.)
8. Way to give up to the bad guy, Sam instead of holding onto the “shapeshifter’s” (or are we supposed to believe it’s old enough to have learned the Alpha’s trick?) body to act as a shield against the gun Cuthbert was holding. Maybe just long enough to pull out your gun and shoot back?
9. The villain not bothering to neuter Dean’s free will before he put a weapon in Dean’s free hand.
10. Dean not even trying to stab Cuthbert real quick as soon as he had the first blade in hand. (Do it, DO IT NOW!)
11. Abaddon… just… this episode inadvertently highlights the problem with her. So she’s supposed to be stopped. Why? Need I remind you that she was actually around & existing for most of human history? For centuries on end she’s been available to do whatever. In fact it was only in the last 50 years or so that she “vanished” and in that time we know the world was nearly destroyed like… 3 times at least. If anything it seems like we were better off when she was around. Is it because the angels aren’t in any fighting shape to battle Hell or something? Oh wait, that would allow the plots of this season to intersect so probably not. Hey, you know what would allow you to beat Abaddon without taking the MoC, Dean? Finishing the rituals to seal Hell (nothing said you couldn’t have a go after Sam opted out).
12. “Deepest part of the ocean”? Why is THAT when the show goes literal when it makes more sense to be metaphorical? Seriously, the trench was first sounded in 1875. We see Cain “finish” using the blade in 1863. So… how does that work out? Did Cain just walk along the bottom of the ocean until he found the deepest part? (“Hmmm… this trench is pretty deep, but I think there’s one deeper…”) Did demons explore & map the ocean depths long before humans? Did Cain just wait 12 years until he heard about the Challenger expedition then go, “Oh yay! THERE’S the deepest part!” Why not just take a boat out to the “middle” of the pacific and throw the blade overboard? Why not throw the blade into a volcano? Why not an undersea volcano?
13. It was scooped up by an unmanned sub? Guys, that is one of 2, TWO possibilities: Kaiko (in ’95) or Nereus (in ’09). Two (and that’s from a 10 min examination on Wikipedia). None of the writers could bother giving a specific name and date to when the 1st blade was picked up just to add a bit of verisimilitude and realness to the world? Remember those days? Remember when they put in a bit of research and world building to really make SPN feel like it could be a part of our world?
14. So the boys aren’t even going to try raiding more of Cuthbert’s place? I mean… can you even imagine all the other tools they could get that would be helpful? Look up more of those useful spells? At least put in an effort to make sure nobody else ever ends up finding the place and its treasure trove? No?
So… yeah. I’ll admit there’s a lot to like in this episode, but there’s so very many screw-ups as well. That’s why I say, this was the best-worst episode of the season.
—–
Remind me never to get Nate really riled up about something!
Obviously, there was a lot to talk about in this episode! Major developments in so many plot lines! Do you think Crowley planned the entire trajectory of Dean’s demise just to get a howling buddy, or was this when Crowley first recognized the possibilities of what was happening? What did you think of Magnus’ actions? Was his character consistent? Could the boys have better utilized his fortress, zoo and/or weapons? What did you think were the strongest and weakest points of this script? Let’s hear from you!

- I’m the Co-Editor-in-Chief, Social Media Manager (Twitter, Facebook and Instagram), Live Tweet Moderator, reviewer and feature writer for The Winchester Family Business. Before joining the Supernatural Family, I worked for 22 years at a global consulting firm, but after years of long hours, high pressure and rigorous demands, I quit corporate life to raise my children. After my first Supernatural convention, I was driven to share my shock and awe in a two-part essay that The WFB was brave enough to post, and my second life calling, that of being a writer, began. My first published book, Fan Phenomena: The Twilight Saga was released in late 2016. Please share in my cross-fandom excitement by following its Facebook page @FanPhenomenaTwilight and my personal Twitter account @LSAngel2. You can read about this whole miraculous transition in my chapter in Family Don’t End With Blood, published in May 2017.
[quote][Nate, how did you miss the crystal skull??][/quote]
It’s not a real crystal skull, I think the guy just likes to shop at Spencer’s gifts. XD
Although… if we take the Indy4 explanation that crystal skulls == aliens, and combine that with the SPN explanation that aliens == fairies… We could get a new macguffin to run around with and chase after Charlie. 🙂
Crystal skull….you mean the one they borrowed from SG1? 😉
I heart you for that one. 😉
🙂
Of course! Daniel’s crystal skull from one of the best episodes ever!
When I watched this episode the first time I thought that Crowley’s reactions in the background were the most interesting part of the episode. He seemed most interested when Sam was able to talk Dean down from the blade. That seems to me to be a foreshadowing of what Crowley is going to need when he can’t control Dean anymore. It’s always the intense love between the brothers that prevails over all evil. Sam has been showing his love for his brother throughout the season even though he is angry about Dean’s lies. Jensen was great in his portrayal of Dean succumbing to the influence of the Blade. But when it came to killing Crowley, the demon in the room and the biggest threat the priority as always was in saving Sam. And Crowley keeping the drug away from Dean in order to control him. I agree it was a long con that probably started long ago and maybe the reason Crowley has never killed the Winchester’s. What luck for Crowley that the descendant of Cain just happened along right when he needed him.
I really liked this episode this is probably my third viewing. An important episode that should have set up the remainder of the MOC story even though it kind of stalled after this.
I don’t have much to write.
This one was one of my favorite episodes because it gave so much information about everything and I mostly agree on the first three posters.
The rest I needed to jump over because I don’t agree on most points and because of writing different opinions/facts gets me usually to no where and my mind went mostly to a blocked state anyway.
So without counter arguments this sentence sort of covers the writer/canon etc. thing in meaning I don’t agree on it.
If your drive is always to find everything is bad and wrong in something you probably think they all are even if they are not.
Anyway, mostly the Deja-vu was a nice read and it would have been great to see more about Magnus and his “ZOO”. Crowley was Crowley and awesome like always.
Loved how the brothers reacted to one another in this episode as it had been below zero before it.
– Lilah
Nah a lot of it I could overlook but it does make you wonder why Sam & Dean don’t bother offing Crowley before they let him out of the house that’s putting a dampener on his power.
That’s twice in the season that the boys – even Sam – let Crowley live with NO reason given and in spite of every statement to the contrary. It’s almost farcical.
Yeah,
that one I agree on… It is conflicted situation because ooc I love Crowley in a totally platonic way and don’t want him wasted. 😉
Also Mark Sheppard is awesome… But on the series point of view even though it is weak… Maybe it is the excuse “The devil you know”. without other explanation.
The other one that I agree on is the Shapeshifter thing. I saw that too and well… On that point I remembered Bloodlines. I would think that in Magnus’s place and with his magic a shapeshifter has more chance to be able to do that than a snot nosed teenager in Bloodlines which we can actually blame for introducing the whole thing to us. As the manor was closed up magical zoo for 40+ years or what was it. Who knows. Magnus could do anything with spells. 😉
– Lilah
I don’t mind Crowley sticking around and I am especially a fan of Mark Sheppard, but yeah, IMHO they should have trimmed up whatever was going on with Dean and that one lady and put in time instead on why Crowley should live for today. (where it would make sense and not when they get to the car and he can escape) Heck I’d settle for the boys feeling some conflict over him now feeling guilt and being almost cured and whether they should save him or finish him off.
One of the better episodes in the second half of S9 but it did suffer from, as Bookdal put it, storyline vomit. Highlights for me were Crowley – him lurking in the background, observing the brothers, particularly Dean, and trying to ingratiate himself to Sam. Dean’s initial reaction to holding the blade was well played by JA. This was also a rare instance in the second half of S9 where Sam had a significant role in a story.
As far as Nate’s question about why Abaddon had to be stopped, my internal logic was – when Abaddon disappeared in the 1950’s, there were other demons around higher in the pecking order (Lilith, Azazel, maybe even Alastair) so maybe they kept Abaddon in line? Abaddon was also shown in S9 to be undoing deals, making demons by extracting human souls (place in mason jar, add demon blood, and voila, you have a shiny new demon…. or a trendy new cocktail). Pragmatically, Crowley was of more use to the Winchesters and they had been able to work with him in the past. Say what you like about Crowley but a deal’s a deal and he kept his word (I know there are a few cases where he didn’t – just speaking in general terms).
I see everyone is concentrating on Crowley setting his sights on Dean so they could howl at the moon together but to me this episode was stronger when it came to interaction between Sam and Crowley. :p
When Dean called Crowley, it was shown that the demon had put him in his contact list as “[i]Not Moose[/i]” Why not “Squirrel” instead? Crowley said to Sam, “[i]You and I both know we shared a mo back in that church. And on some level, we are bonded.[/i]” I assume he was at the very least referring to some sort of literal bond that exists because they share blood now. “[i]You’re right, Moose. You can’t trust me. But, sadly, I can’t trust you, either.[/i]” I got the feeling that Crowley had been testing Sam to see if there could be something going on between them.
In the next episode Crowley said about Dean, “[i]Of course he saved me. We’re besties. And now he’s ready.[/i]” Later on I was still surprised to learn that Crowley and Dean had formed some sort of bromance. Crowley has fun with Dean but I thought there was something sincere about Crowley when it came to Sam. Did Crowley change gears once Sam made it really clear in this episode that he wanted nothing to do with the demon? It’s possible Crowley tried to rile Sam up on purpose because he knew Sam would never want to be buddies with him which would then add tension between the brothers. However, I can’t help but think that Crowley had a genuine interest in Sam but at the same time I can’t see how it fits with Crowley playing a long con so he could not only use Dean but to be buddies with him.
I agree with you regarding Sam and Crowley — it really was hard to sort out. I predicted Crowley was pulling a long con at the time this first aired but the ambiguity of his relationship with Sam is troublesome. He’s tried SEVERAL times to “bond” with Sam. Frankly, I thought he was smitten. My initial reaction to the episode is that he was trying one more time with Sam and Sam shut him down cold. But a few days later, I decided Crowley’s whole “I did good, huh Moose.” was long con. He’s trying to look pathetic to Sam, less “Crowley must die.” It didn’t work well. Sam was on that kick. But after this episode, and with the blade in hand, I think Crowley got far enough under Dean’s skin that Crowley was ‘safe’ from the Moose.
But I still think Crowley actually has a wee bit of a crush on Sam — even though Sam hates him. Crowley’s a little weird, who knows what gets him going?
SueB, yes, all of it is very confusing.
[quote]Frankly, I thought he was smitten. My initial reaction to the episode is that he was trying one more time with Sam and Sam shut him down cold. But a few days later, I decided Crowley’s whole “I did good, huh Moose.” was long con.[/quote]
I felt that something real was going on when it came to Crowley interacting with Sam. That’s why I’m not willing to write it off completely although Crowley ended up wanting to howl at the moon with Dean.
[u]9.06 Heaven Can’t Wait[/u]
[i]Sam: Will you help us read it?
Crowley: Why on earth would I?
Sam: Because I was there that night. I saw what humanity did to you. (Crowley scoffs very quietly.) Like it or not, there’s still a little part of you that’s not a douche.
Crowley: Sorry, Moose. To the last drop.[/i]
The lady doth protest too much?
In [u]9.10 Road Trip[/u], Sam remembers what happened when he was possessed. He asks aloud if he killed Kevin. Crowley says, [i]“No, you didn’t [kill Kevin]. He did.”[/i] Crowley wanted to get out before Gadreel would find them but I think the scene conveyed that Crowley felt for Sam.
[u]9.11 First Born[/u] shows the demon wanting to recruit both of the brothers.
[i]Dean [angrily punches Crowley] After I kill Abaddon, you’re next!
Crowley: You don’t mean that. We’re having too much fun. Listen up. Even with the Blade, we’re gonna need all the help we can get against Abaddon.
Dean [not wanting to talk about Sam] Go find the Blade.
Crowley: It’s always something with you boys, isn’t it?[/i]
However, I think that Crowley wasn’t completely mercenary when it came to Sam. Crowley had connected with Sam at the church more than he had with Dean or anyone else since forever. When Dean called Crowley, Crowley’s caller ID read “Not Moose” which seems to be a hint that Crowley wasn’t gunning to be real buddies with Dean initially. There is no benefit to naming Dean as that unless it’s how Crowley saw Dean.
It’s possible that “Not Moose” thing was born out of Crowley having feelings because he was getting high by injecting human blood in himself. I do think Crowley plays up the bond between him and Sam in [u]9.16 Blade Runners[/u]
[i]Sam [looking up to find Crowley staring at him] What are you doing?
Crowley: I’m still a little tainted by humanity. Makes me sentimental.
Sam Well, stop.[/i]
However, I think that Crowley and Dean having a kinship now sort of proves that Crowley sought out a connection with Sam. So maybe Crowley tried to form a relationship with Sam and Lola but when those failed, he set his sights fully on Dean?
Your examples are exactly while I feel that Crowley craves a bond with Sam. So if Crowley dies, while Dean and Cas (I think) would be acceptable to him, I almost feel like he’ll be sad if it’s Sam. Although having taken Dean, Crowley has to know he’s number one on Moose’s hit list. I can’t wait to see their S10 interaction.
[quote]I feel that Crowley craves a bond with Sam.[/quote]
Yeah, I think he was looking to reconnect with Sam because what happened at the church was something genuine and obviously had a huge effect on Crowley. [i]“Would it be possible, Moose…I’d like…to ask you a-a favor, Sam. Earlier, when you were confessing back there…what did you say? I only ask because, given my history…it raises the question… Where do I start…to even look for forgiveness? I mean…”[/i] Sam might’ve been the perfect one for Crowley in that situation because Sam is a good person but he has made mistakes that were really hard to come back from.
Maybe next season Crowley lets Dean know that Sam might be in deep trouble and then he feels a bit disturbed when Dean still doesn’t care?
[quote]So if Crowley dies, while Dean and Cas (I think) would be acceptable to him, I almost feel like he’ll be sad if it’s Sam.[/quote]
I think that was the case earlier this season when Crowley was still held captive at the Bunker. He seemed to single Sam out more. I think the demon has a soft spot for Dean now and Crowley probably won’t end up liking how far demon Dean has fallen.
[quote]But I still think Crowley actually has a wee bit of a crush on Sam — even though Sam hates him. Crowley’s a little weird, who knows what gets him going?[/quote]
I was also getting that vibe a little bit… He likes to flirt and such because he likes to mess with the brothers but he does seem to swing both ways. 😀
I do think Crowley liked Dean on some level already early on.
[u]9.11 First Born[/u]
[i]Crowley: He was right, you know. You are worthy.
Dean: Oh, great. Now you’re gonna get all touchy-feely, too?
Crowley: Your problem, mate, is that nobody hates you more than you do. Believe me, I’ve tried.[/i]
I don’t think he was being purely manipulative. Maybe the worthy bit is something Crowley is attracted to beyond the mark of Cain being useful to him? (Crowley would not be buddies with a mere stunt demon.)
That look Crowley gave to Sam when Sam figured out how to get back to the fortress… He seemed pleased and sly. Was he working with Magnus? Or did he enjoy seeing Sam be that smart? Maybe it’s natural that Crowley is draw to Sam (besides what happened at the church) because Sam has always been of interest to demons – that mix of someone who is good but at the same time had a bit of darkness in him and is competent / powerful enough that he could’ve even been their leader.
Crowley said, [i]“Brilliant, I must say. I’m speaking of myself, of course. All you two managed to do was get trussed up. Combine a little derring-do on my part, [u]a little dumb muscle from Squirrel[/u], a little bleeding from Moose… Happy ending. Roll credits,”[/i] right before Sam wanted Dean to kill the demon which then prompted Crowley to say, [i]“You’re right, Moose. You can’t trust me. But, sadly, I can’t trust you, either.”[/i]
So maybe Crowley thought that Dean was fun to play with but he felt that the relationship with Sam had more potential? (Maybe he even thought he could get more purified blood from Sam…) Then he changed gears when he saw that he could have more influence over Dean?
I am really happy that you brought up the relationship between Crowley and Sam. On my first watch, I really focused on that NOT Moose caller ID. My feelings about this:
– I believe Crowley was telling the truth when he said in the finale that he didn’t really know what would happen to Dean, “not really” he said.
– I think he knew more about the MoC than he revealed at first , but the whole situation could have gone in any of several directions based on circumstances and the actions of the bearer, so I believe Crowley really was HOPING for certain outcomes but didn’t actually KNOW what would happen.
– Crowley is a master manipulator, a con man. That means he can adapt any situation to his advantage. That is how he has survived all these centuries. He makes sure he is always on the winning team, i.e. that he always has one foot into EVERY camp in case that is the side he needs to choose.
– I think this episode is where he was watching Sam and Dean’s reactions to see where he might form a bond/friendship. I think the human blood truly gave him loneliness and he is now looking for kinship. I think he would be happy if it were Sam but he would be just as happy if it is with Dean. He wants a friend but he also want a) an ally and b)) to force a wedge between the brothers because together they are a formidable force against him. As a strategist, he wants to weaken that enemy while playing the double agent, positioned to choose whichever side turns out to be to his greatest advantage for both survival and protection.
– I do not believe he is playing out a long con. I believe he is changing strategies real time, i.e. parlaying his moves and each circumstance to his advantage to accomplish two objectives : First – Survival. Always, survival. Second (annoying to him but still a motivator), finding an ally and friend so he is not alone, so he has both a protector and a companion.
Thank you, nightsky!
[quote]- I think this episode is where he was watching Sam and Dean’s reactions to see where he might form a bond/friendship. I think the human blood truly gave him loneliness and he is now looking for kinship. I think he would be happy if it were Sam but he would be just as happy if it is with Dean.[/quote]
I think that’s where the narrative might be heading but it’s also what throws me off. Crowley seemed intent on winning Sam over but by the end of the season he genuinely seemed to want to have Dean by his side.
From an interview Carver gave:
[quote]Was that a bit of human emotion we glimpsed in Crowley as he sat by Dean’s body before that startling resurrection?
“That’s not just residue of human emotion,” Carver reveals. “When Crowley was shooting up human blood, whether they admit it or not, a kinship developed between these two. Call it humanity or call it friendship, it’s definitely there.”[/quote]
When did they really have a chance for that? Is Carver referring to [u]Mother’s Little Helper[/u]?
[quote]Second (annoying to him but still a motivator), finding an ally and friend so he is not alone, so he has both a protector and a companion.[/quote]
I think he still wants to call the shots when he is in a relationship with someone.
[quote]b)) to force a wedge between the brothers because together they are a formidable force against him.[/quote]
Maybe he wanted to “steal” one of the brothers for himself because he knows Sam and Dean would normally choose each other first.
[u]9.23 Do You Believe in Miracles?[/u]
[i]Sam: But if this is it, we’re gonna do it together. You want to know what he whispered to her, right, in the video? His next stop.
Crowley [overhearing from the car] So what are we all gollywagging on about? Chop-chop. [Dean and Sam both turn to face him with faces that tell him to get lost.]
Excuse me. I’m not exactly demon Minion number three here. As the kids say, I’ve got mad skills.
Dean: Look, I don’t know what you expected here, okay. I don’t really care, but you wanted off the hamster wheel. Get off.
Crowley: Well, I guess I’ve been Winchestered. I’d wish you boys good luck… If I thought it would help.[/i]
Crowley wanted to howl at the moon with someone without the responsibility of Hell. Sam and Dean were the best options for him.
Maybe Crowley thought he would be more likely to have a meaningful and mutually beneficial relationship with Sam but later changed his focus on Dean. Although I’m not sure how he thought he could maneuver Dean’s mark of Cain situation without Sam turning against him.
1. Sam & Dean actually fighting AGAINST someone’s redemption.
[b]Kind of a crappy redemption when the guy is draining people of their blood.[/b]
3. Dean completely forgoing all the weapons IN A ROOM FILLED WITH THEM to just forfeit to the bad guy.
[b]So he’s suppose to run across the room grab a sword, all the while Magnus can use that Chinese spell and makes him drop the weapon again? Or even simpler, just shoot him in the kneecap since he picked Dean’s gun off of him?[/b]
4. If Cuthbert knew so much about the MoC, does that mean he should know that Dean can’t die now? So… why wave the gun around? Was he hoping Dean wouldn’t call his bluff, even though Dean should have known that he was useless to the man, dead?
[b]Well, from the dialogue he only seemed to know the basics of it, the Blade only works with the Mark, and that’s it. He even tells Dean “Tell me Henry Winchester’s grandson isn’t curious to see if it works.”[/b]
5. So Cuthbert was advocating being proactive… then he doesn’t want to be?
[b]Well his priorities obviously changed, he became obsessed with building his own collection. Plus you gotta think the guy went a little nutso living alone in a fortress for over 50 years.[/b]
6. Cuthbert doesn’t even try pretending to be an ally just to get into the bunker and steal things from its collection?
[b]He sees the opportunity to complete the MoC/FB set, that seems bigger than getting a bunch of books and esoterica. Especially considering if he has Dean, he would have access to the Bunker anyway.[/b]
7. He has NO interest in Sam being the former vessel for Lucifer? Really? And before you say he may not know, let me remind you that this guy apparently knows how the MoC would affect Dean; and when the apocalypse that Sam was involved with happened 4 years ago, Cuthbert WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO WITNESS. (Spell for everything? Obviously scrying would be one such thing and any sane man would be doing that to see if Satan is about to destroy the world.)
[b]There’s no reason for him to give a shit. And he never claims to know what will happen when Dean holds the Blade.[/b]
8. Way to give up to the bad guy, Sam instead of holding onto the “shapeshifter’s” (or are we supposed to believe it’s old enough to have learned the Alpha’s trick?) body to act as a shield against the gun Cuthbert was holding. Maybe just long enough to pull out your gun and shoot back?
[b]Considering Magnus doesn’t reveal he has a weapon until after Sam kills the shapeshifter, so what use would it have been from him to keep it hostage? I mean Magnus sacrificed two of his vampires to test them earlier, he’s not going to care that Sam is hiding behind a shapeshifer.[/b]
9. The villain not bothering to neuter Dean’s free will before he put a weapon in Dean’s free hand.
[b]Dean was restrained with chains, and he does sap his free will afterwards. Plus he even says that he’ll need to do it multiple times for it become permanent. So even if he did it first, the effect wouldn’t have lasted long as was seen not long after. “Interesting effect, huh? All thought, all will just…drained out of you. I do this enough, you’ll be ready for whatever I have in mind.”[/b]
10. Dean not even trying to stab Cuthbert real quick as soon as he had the first blade in hand. (Do it, DO IT NOW!)
[b]Considering he’s restrained and Magnus steps back, well out of stabbing distance from Dean after he places it in his hand. Stabbing wasn’t an option.[/b]
11. Abaddon… just… this episode inadvertently highlights the problem with her. So she’s supposed to be stopped. Why? Need I remind you that she was actually around & existing for most of human history? For centuries on end she’s been available to do whatever. In fact it was only in the last 50 years or so that she “vanished” and in that time we know the world was nearly destroyed like… 3 times at least. If anything it seems like we were better off when she was around. Is it because the angels aren’t in any fighting shape to battle Hell or something? Oh wait, that would allow the plots of this season to intersect so probably not. Hey, you know what would allow you to beat Abaddon without taking the MoC, Dean? Finishing the rituals to seal Hell (nothing said you couldn’t have a go after Sam opted out).
[b]The Knights of Hell are soldiers, incredibly powerful ones, but soldiers nonetheless, they take their orders from someone else. In the case when she was around there was Azazel, Alastair, and Lilith. Also, closing the gates of Hell does require one person doing the trials alone, it’s clearly said in season 8. So that would mean Dean would have to the trials all over again seal Hell, which would also involve capturing Abaddon, which if it was that easy, the story would have been done in like one episode.[/b]
12. “Deepest part of the ocean”? Why is THAT when the show goes literal when it makes more sense to be metaphorical? Seriously, the trench was first sounded in 1875. We see Cain “finish” using the blade in 1863. So… how does that work out? Did Cain just walk along the bottom of the ocean until he found the deepest part? (“Hmmm… this trench is pretty deep, but I think there’s one deeper…”) Did demons explore & map the ocean depths long before humans? Did Cain just wait 12 years until he heard about the Challenger expedition then go, “Oh yay! THERE’S the deepest part!” Why not just take a boat out to the “middle” of the pacific and throw the blade overboard? Why not throw the blade into a volcano? Why not an undersea volcano?
13. It was scooped up by an unmanned sub? Guys, that is one of 2, TWO possibilities: Kaiko (in ’95) or Nereus (in ’09). Two (and that’s from a 10 min examination on Wikipedia). None of the writers could bother giving a specific name and date to when the 1st blade was picked up just to add a bit of verisimilitude and realness to the world? Remember those days? Remember when they put in a bit of research and world building to really make SPN feel like it could be a part of our world?
[b]These two are just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. You can suspend disbelief for everything in this show, but not being specific about about the Mariana Trench is too much? Come on. Here’s one Cain uses a location spell to find the deepest part of the ocean.[/b]
14. So the boys aren’t even going to try raiding more of Cuthbert’s place? I mean… can you even imagine all the other tools they could get that would be helpful? Look up more of those useful spells? At least put in an effort to make sure nobody else ever ends up finding the place and its treasure trove? No?
[b]Considering it’s invisible and they have the only method of entry, I think it’s pretty safe. For all we know it can show next season.[/b]
15. THE F**** UNICORN SKULL!
[b]Nothing wrong with that.[/b]
Thankyou Vince for the point-by-point. Saves me from doing it. I pretty much agree with everything you’ve got here.
You didn’t mention two I’d like to comment on:
1) The MILF — this was all about objectifying Dean. The MILF was a foreshadowing of what Cuthbert AND Crowley are after: using Dean. The MILF was just the usual objectification. The whole season was about stripping away Dean’s humanity and value as a person. Objectification, using him as an attack dog, treating him as a weapon. All one theme IMO.
2) The rapid shapeshifter. I think they were setting up Bloodlines. My personal fanwank for rapid shifting vice what we saw before: the previous shifters were all loners or random mutations who didn’t have a full set of skills. The S9 shifters we’ve seen were shifter-from-birth or attached to others who showed them the ropes. I fully admit this is a fanwank but I think the Winchesters picking off loners (with deep-seeded psychological issues) actually fits the universe.
The only shifter we saw that could shift rapidly was an alpha. But you are most likely right about setting up a shifter to fit Bloodlines.
Yeah, that’s right the shifter in Two and a Half Men could change at will, but the baby couldn’t. I had wondered if that was a mistake, at the time, but now it seems more deliberate. I wish someone had commented on it during the show though. Sam, Dean and Grandpaw all saw the thing shift into them right before their eyes… skin, clothes and all and nobody mentioned anything about it’s unique shifting abilities did they?
The DID comment on it during the show. It was the Alpha shapeshifter.
[quote]DEAN
What the hell was that thing?
SAMUEL
We think it may have been an Alpha.
DEAN
An alpha, like?
SAMUEL
Like all monsters come from somewhere, right?
DEAN
And you think that this one was –
SAMUEL
The king shapeshifter. First one who spawned all the others – there’s tons of lore about it.
DEAN
The first one?
SAM
[b]That’s why it was so strong[/b], and why nothing we had stopped it.[/quote]
I think we meant that it could shift quickly without shedding it’s skin.
Thats still not a reference as to why it doesn’t need to shed it’s skin like any other Shape Shifter. We had to infer that… and to me, until now anyway, it looked like an oversight or a change for the sake of convenience that ended up looking like a bad ret con. One line could have changed that and made it more clear. I don’t need everything spelled out for me, but in this case it would have made sense to be more clear. And this certainly wasn’t a set up for Bloodlines and it was nearly three years ago… more like a happy coincidence for that show rather than any actual planning on the writers part.
Yes Cheryl… I guess I wasn’t clear :D. Not only that, but it could mimic the clothes as well, when all the other shifters we saw had to find clothes from somewhere. Also, the alpha shifter that came for the baby in Two and a Half Men did even SEE grandpaw before turning into him and he didn’t need a sample of his hair or skin or whatever to affect his change. None of that was adequately explained in the episode.
Yeah, I figured the shifter thing was about “Bloodlines” and was probably a network mandate. You know they couldn’t have their pretty young actors for their new proposed show ripping their skin off every week. One of the guys that works on the VFX was asked about it on his Tumblr, and he didn’t have an answer, so who knows why. But hopefully since Bloodlines is DOA, if they do shifters again it’ll be the orginal shedding kind.
Just so long as we don’t see the teeth thing again. Skin scarred me for life.
Late to the party. Just wanted to chime in that I’m glad there are those who appreciate this episode as much as I do.
I THINK I see where we are headed with Sam and Dean. But as Meg said: the problem is ALWAYS Crowley. He was always the deep-threat in S9 and what the hell he’s going to do in S10 remains the biggest mystery to me. And I’m not sure Crowley is in as much control of himself as he thinks he is.