Lets Discuss: Who is The Real Dean Winchester?
A few weeks ago I put out the question, “Is Sam Winchester Really Okay?” along with a little analysis that leaned towards the conclusion that while a lot of evidence isn’t there, he probably is due for an upcoming meltdown. The results were overwhelming, and often explosive. Opinions were quite scattered. So how could I not resist looking at the other side of the Winchester universe?
A question asked to me at the Salute to Supernatural Convention in Chicago always rings in my head whenever I look at Dean and his plight in season seven. When will we see the real Dean Winchester again? I made sure I got the definition of who the real Dean Winchester is from this person. Seasons one and two Dean, the wisecracking, confident, never say die badass that charmed all the ladies and evoked fear with just one brutal stare. I do admit, we haven’t seen that Dean in a while. Is that the real Dean Winchester anymore though? Has he been through too much where he can go back to that?
Hell no doubt changed Dean, but he did come back swinging. He wasn’t going to go down without a fight. It’s quite interesting when all that trauma of Hell came back to him and haunted him with nightmares and triggered bouts of heavy drinking, he still had a fire inside for the life. It wasn’t until the middle of season five that he started to have doubts. Sam was the one that eventually got through to him, and pulled him back into the fight with vengeance. Just in time for it all to fall apart by him watching Sam fall into the pit with Lucifer.
Season six is where it all starts to perplex me. Dean clearly struggled with giving up the hunting life and taking his shot at something he always wanted by having a life with Ben and Lisa. Considering that desire was well noted early on in the series (especially in “Dream a Little Dream of Meâ€) the whole idea was worth exploring. It was an interesting dilemma for him and it played out well for the most part. However, when Dean got back to the life, something was different. He didn’t have that internal spark, that urgency to save the world.
I suppose I didn’t expect him to have that at first. I do think that Sam’s trip to Hell soured a lot of that desire. He was also too worried about getting Sam’s soul back for anything else to matter. Once that happened though, it still took him a while to find that spark. It wasn’t until “Mommy Dearest†that we finally saw a glimpse of Dean of old. He was up for taking the fight to Eve but he drew his moral lines while on that task. Without a doubt, Dean was a total badass.
It all unraveled too fast though. He found out his close friend Castiel had betrayed him, he lost Ben and Lisa, and then Sam’s head broke. That easily crushed whatever renewed spirit he had. Any new trials and misfortunes he had to face since then he’s dealt with by going through the motions. In “Meet The New Boss” he decided the only thing he could do was fix his car. In “Hello Cruel World” his focus turned to Sam and his psychotic break, but it clearly shook his confidence. Then, the whole Amy mess came along. He killed Amy after promising Sam he wouldn’t, and then lied about it. He tried to hide his guilt through excessive drinking, and wouldn’t confess to what happened despite the fact that Sam could clearly see something was wrong.
Dean is still carrying on, but it seems like he’s moving along from job to job with no desire to be there. Personally, I find it really tough to see Dean flounder like this with both his profession and his brother. Yes, he’s under enormous pressure. The Leviathan have certainly done their share of damage. Instead of getting mad and choosing to fight though, he’s just gotten grumpy and complacent. This is especially true when Sam left him for a time not once but twice. In “Season 7, Time For A Wedding” Dean was a little sad over not having his brother around during Vegas week, but we never really learned how he dealt with that ten days apart after “Slash Fiction.” Judging by his location, he went to North Carolina and worked on a case. I think he did that because he really didn’t know what else to do, which is the reason he was drawn to Lily Dale, NY. Part of him obviously cares, but something is missing. It seems like he’s stuck.
Dean’s issues haven’t totally been avoided, but it took until episode nine, “How To Win Friends and Influence Monsters†to finally open them up. Dean has had enough of saving the world. They save it, and it goes back being in trouble again. They’ve saved the world twice, he’s wondering why they should do it again. This I think is the most sense Dean has made in two seasons. He has a right to say these things, to question why he’s doing this. He just needs a friggin answer! I’m just not sure why it’s taken this long into the season to get his feelings out in the open. Dean Winchester without a purpose for ten episodes has not made for a compelling character.
Going into the rest of the season, now Dean may or may have not have lost the one person that matters to him as much as Sam. How do you think Dean would take the loss of Bobby? He does have a revenge thing going against Dick Roman. That would likely be his reason to get back into the game, but how far will he take it? Will he find his old spirit again? Will he go back to the old Dean Winchester, wise cracking and being totally bad ass in going against his foes?
Another burning question too with Dean is from the end of “Season 7: Time For A Wedding.†Why doesn’t he want to focus on himself instead of worrying about Sam? That long worried gaze, what did it mean? Why doesn’t he want to look at himself? Also, if Bobby dies, or at least is out of the picture for a while, will Dean try to go back into protective mode with Sam? Will he try to bury that pain? How much more can he bury?
Speaking of Sam, I was a bit bothered how apart the brothers were in “Death’s Door.” Will Dean eventually lean on Sam, like he did after John died and when he came back from Hell? Is this just a normal grieving pattern for him? Or are you worried that the brothers being apart like this in their time of need is going to get worse?
What would you like to see from Dean Winchester? How do you think his character has been handled in season seven thus far? Who do you think the real Dean Winchester is? Will we ever see him again?
I recognize that any time we have such discussions, they can get heated. I ask be respectful, let everyone have their opinion even it you don’t disagree, and no Sam vs. Dean. In other words, no knocking down Sam to build up Dean. Otherwise, I’ll give some latitude in this thread. So discuss away!
You’ve given me a lot to think about with this article. Honestly, I don’t think Dean is himself and he hasn’t been that way in quite some time. It started with Sam’s jump into the cage. Dean has never recovered from it. I think part of him died that day and even though Sam is back, that part of him is still gone. Will he ever get it back? I don’t know. That’s a question for the writers to answer. It would be nice if he did, but it would also be understandable if he didn’t.
I lost my husband over 2 years ago to pancreatic cancer. His illness was brief and literally took our family’s breath away. Within 6 weeks from his diagnosis, he was gone. Now, before you start…I had six fabulous weeks with him and I will treasure that always as will our three children. I also know that on that day a part of me died. It’s okay. Something that I had a feeling would happen, but you never know, since each person has a different experience when it comes to the death of a love one. In my case, it was the loss of my partner and love for over 29 years. My point, however, is this. Dean didn’t have 6 weeks. He didn’t even have 6 days. It was much less and so he was never ever been able to wrap his head around the concept that Sam wouldn’t be there anymore. Then it happened. Sam was gone and Dean was left here to cope and carry on. And then…Sam’s back! It’s a wonder he’s not in the psych ward right now. I imagine that it would be very hard to recover that part of himself that died on that day, even after 2 years. Not to say that we might not catch glimpses of him trying to get it back from time to time.
Now that there’s a possibility that Bobby is gone, he’s dealing with that too. Since this is also a person who figures greatly in his life, I imagine that another part of him will die too. It will affect who he is as a person and I believe that his personality will change somewhat too. Dean is such a lost soul at this moment, but I’m really glad that Sam is there for him. Dean will need to draw on his strength in order to carry on. Fire is great, but after a while it goes out. Sam will help him continue on to get the job down and defeat the Leviathans.
A little side note about Sam….I just hope he can hold it together for a little bit longer. Dean needs him and I know that Sam needs his brother too. It’s just right now I think that Dean needs him more than ever before.
OMG!!! Her story with her husband and their opinion about the Dean moved me. I loved every,every word and I agree with everything in relation to the Dean, thank you. 😥 😛
I find the Dean character as developed and interpreted by JA very compelling. I believe that long wistful look over the car in answer to Sam’s statements, is an acknowledgement of sorts…that he measures his own worth and worthiness in his ability to protect and follow his father’s directive to “watch out for Sam”.
I don’t think I know who the “real” Dean Winchester is. After 7 years..I am drawn to my TV each week hoping and waiting for clues. Bad Ass Dean is who John wanted him to be. So he was. Womanizing Dean surfaces to fill the void of not being allowed to develop ongoing relationships for fear of placing loved ones in danger. Little needs to be said about his protective stance to his brother…its been the most obvious and the ongoing engine of the show… His life has been all about his brother..without Sam there is no Dean…Its incomprehensible to him. He is at a loss… look again in those eyes after Sam gets in the car. Whats left? Those eyes are searching desperately and don’t seem to settle on anything recognizable. I fear for Dean. He will revert by habit into vengeful fury if Bobby is taken from him…for he already is afraid that Sam is slipping away. I pray that Cas lives up to his promise of redeeming himself to his earthly brothers by bringing back Bobby and “fixing” Sam. After all who is Dean without these reasons for being. We don’t know do we?
I’ve thought about this a lot. Who would Dean have been if tragedy had never come to his family. I think through all of the seasons and through all of Dean’s coping mechanisms we have seen that he is a nurturer. He is a caregiver. He’s a quick thinker, innovative, and very adaptable. He doesnt think he is anything outside of the killer, but really, he should know better. Unlike John and Sam he hasnt been driven by revenge, but maybe now he will be.
Dean’s always wanted out, stated he was tired of the life. But he knows he cant leave it. I just think that he is actually somewhat sensitive and hunting isnt suited for his personality, but he has made the best of it. But because he isnt suited for it, the hunting life is beginning to wear him down and is zapping his life and soul away.
I don’t think it would be realistic for Dean to be the same person now as he was in S1-S2. Just as Sam has changed from the idealistic boy scout who still thought hustling pool was wrong, so Dean has changed from the happy-go-lucky, cocky, charming ladies’ man that he was. I never would’ve qualified them as “naïve†at the time, but in retrospect, they were. They couldn’t have had a lot of innocence, but evidently they had some, because they have lost it over the past six years. They have been through far too much, including Hell itself, for it to be otherwise. They are both very damaged, and they would not be human were they not this damaged. It’s a testament to how tough they are that they’re still functioning at all.
I also think it is perfectly in character for Dean to repress his anguish like this. Historically, it takes half a season for the dam to break and for it to come pouring out in some roadside confession. The blows have been coming too fast and too furious for Dean to be able to jump back up and shake it off, and the loss of Cas was a knock-out punch. And now I think Bobby’s death will crack him wide open. If Dean were swaggering around and charming the pants off every lady he meets at this point, I would think he was callous and heartless. The fact he is depressed only means he is caring and human. Which isn’t to say he is weak. On the contrary, I think he is still badass in spite of being beaten down, and one need only look as far as the last episode to see a great example of it in his confrontation with Dick.
I, for one, have found the evolution of the characters to be one of the most fascinating aspects of the show. I wouldn’t want them to stay the same, to remain unchanged by all the horrible stuff that happens to them. I think saying S1-S2 Dean is the real Dean is a fallacy. Real people change, they are shaped by life experience, they progress, they grow, they improve, they worsen, they go through ups and downs. And I think that evolution in Supernatural has been as realistic and in character as it has been fascinating.
I agree with your assessment. I think both of them lost their “naïveté” once they realized the demons had plans for Sam and then subsequently for Dean. And real people are changed by life experiences. So it goes without saying that both Sam & Dean cannot be the same in season 7 as they were in season 1. I love the progression of both.
I think Dean still suffers the shame and guilt from Hell. Season 4 underscored this. Season 5, especially “My Bloody Valentine” reinforced this impression for me. Famine’s comment about his emptiness is pertinent. I also think that Soulless Sam was not only difficult for Dean on a personal, family level, but also it was perhaps a mirror moment where he saw himself in this version of Sam, this emptiness that can’t be filled up with anything even a family or any other form of “normal” life. I think we’ve revisited it in Season 7, especially in “Season 7, Time for a Wedding” when the crossroads demon makes a point to say he’d always wanted to meet Dean. Where Sam had Becky as his fan, I got the distinct impression that the demon was Dean’s fan.
To me, Dean was fundamentally changed in Hell. What he thought he was, a soldier in the good fight, was changed and I think he realized he was a soldier, but for whose side? He had a conversion experience; it kind of reminds me of what is going on during Homeland this year. He was of both worlds in a way that Sam has not been. Sam was always chosen for this scenario, for Lucifer, for YED, whereas Dean was accidental to the scenario, which was demonstrated by the fact that they (demons, Alistair, Michael) first chose John, and when he wouldn’t do, broke Dean, and when Dean chose not to accept Michael, the archangel simply shifted his attention to Adam.
I don’t think Sam is okay, but I definitely don’t think Dean is okay because he has been experiencing an existential crisis for years now. This crisis has been forestalled by duty, by other things such as the end of the world, the death of his brother, the responsibility of Lisa and Ben, the unraveling of Cas – there’s always been something that Dean could focus on, which enables his primary mode of dealing: denial. I’m not so sure Dean is so much tired as he is running out of “other things” to focus on. His reality is being peeled back layer by layer and he is finally being forced to deal with those deep seeded issues that he has been good at covering up. I think this also explains the reliance on alcohol; it’s a pain killer, a numbing agent for consciousness. And I think it goes back to Hell – before he was a soldier, trained as such (as seen in Death’s Door), but a soldier for what, for whom?
Just my thoughts on Dean…..
Oh man. So many things to say I’m not even sure where to begin.
I think part of why we don’t know the real Dean is because DEAN doesn’t know the real Dean. As was mentioned earlier, Dean has spent most of his life adapting to whoever he was with–John’s perfect soldier, Sam’s protective big brother, rebel, hero–whoever the person looking at him expected to see. But a life like that doesn’t give you much chance to figure out who you are without the people around you, which is a big part of why Dean doesn’t like being alone–he needs someone to define him.
Obviously, that’s not a healthy place to be. It’s okay to want to be needed and enjoy helping people; it’s okay to adapt yourself–somewhat–to the people around you. We all do it to some degree. Unfortunately, in Dean those traits have been warped out of proportion until it’s all he knows. He’s never had a chance to develop a self image that isn’t entirely dependent on the people around him. Until he does that, Dean Winchester, in a sense, barely even exists.
Since this is a television show, I doubt we’re going to see Dean going off on a journey of self-discovery any time soon. What I’m hoping we do see is Sam holding it together long enough to help Dean figure out which pieces of himself he needs to keep and which he doesn’t, and start building a new self image that’s more about who he is and less about who others think he is.
I guess we’ll see!
This is my first time commenting here. I think that both Sam and Dean are close to the edge. Sam is holding on by a thread using Dean as his touchstone (I think that is the reason he forgave him so quickly for Amy- he needs him). Unfortunately Dean seems to be in a downward spiral. His prior suicide threat paired with his inability to find meaning in what they do any more, show he’s not doing much better than Sam. He doesn’t seem to trust anyone, except Bobby and now Bobby may be gone. I think he’ll need Sam now just as desperately as Sam needs him. I’m hoping that’s what the writer’s were going for and that there will be an emotional pay-off at some point where we get a better understanding of what has been going on with them and they can get past it.
I think the real Dean is someone who gets pleasure and satisfaction out of measurable results. He wants to save people. This is how he justifies and copes with the unimaginable trauma that has mangled his life… that he can help people against the forces that might otherwise destroy their lives as they destroyed his.
Lately, things have seemed less meaningful. Once upon a time, it was a choice that he made. It wasn’t the choice that his brother made, or that his father would’ve made if not for his vengeance, but it was a choice that fulfilled him… the choice to, vengeance aside, do this job for the sake of simply [i]helping people.[/i] But he can’t seem to help anymore, can he? He saved Sam in S2, but that was wrong and led to even more pain for both of them. He struggled as long as he could to resist Alistair, but he couldn’t hold out forever… and the horror of knowing that that failure didn’t just scar him, but kicked off the end of the world, must’ve overwhelmed any good he thought he’d ever done. He couldn’t change Sam’s mind about trusting a demon, he was told by Death himself to do nothing in the final battle lest the world be destroyed. He made a good go of it with Lisa and Ben, only to see that relationship go down in flames due to a hazard of his job… being turned into a vampire. He could save their lives, but not their innocence, and saw no good solution to what he felt he’d done to them… so he did something even worse to try to make up for it. He couldn’t bring Cas back from the brink. Even taking out a serial killing monster only gets Sam angry at him.
There’s only so much a man can take. I think the real Dean Winchester is still the one we remember. But I think he would be a whole lot more recognizable if he could just get out of the freaking world-saving business, which frankly EVERYONE should be helping with, not just the Winchesters, and get back to a more manageable scale… taking individual hunts, helping individual people, and perhaps being able to find a family of his own.
I could write a book in answer to this question, such are the many, many layers Jensen has given this wonderful character, but I will try to keep it as short as I can. Dean is a parentified child, first and foremost, IMO-and again IMO that has shaped every aspect of his life up to this point; but I believe that he was also BORN(not just raised) to protect others through the hunting of evil. Born to it because he seems to possess innate abilities that aid him greatly in this-those “gut” instincts/feelings of his and sharp shooting skills that were evident from the very first time he picked up a gun while shooting bottles off a fence with his father-to name only two. In S1-3-he seemed to know this about himself, feel good about it, to like it, and to even take some pride in it-then he went to Hell and he found out exactly WHY he’s so good at it-because he knows his enemy from the inside out. And THAT scared the crap out of him and has made him wonder if hunting is truly the good, honorable, and noble calling that he’s always wanted to believe it to be. He discovered in his hell that the demon-hunter-out of necessity-has to have a little bit of that “evil” that he hunts in him, too-if he’s going to be able to defeat that kind of “evil” in the end-and that the biggest fight of all that the hunter of evil faces lies in his never crossing over that thin line that separates “us” from “them”, AKA retaining enough humanity so that he won’t become the thing that the hunts in the end. And while Dean, over the course of the series, has given all of these things cursory glances and acknowledgements, there was never really time or any real inclination or reason for him to do anything other than what he’s done out of necessity with most of his emotions since he was a child “shove it down” and “let it come out in spurts of violence and alcoholism”. I’m loving how they’re writing Dean in S7 so far. Not sure where they will take him from here, but I love that they seem to be taking him back to his roots of being a hunter who was bred AND born to the hunt. I hope he will get to a place of pride in it again, and that he will realize that as long as he remains aware of the thinness of that line that he, and all hunters, walk between good and evil, THAT, in itself, will aid him in keeping his choices to those of the “light”, rather than the “darkness”.
I think the look Dean had at the end of “Season 7, Time For A Wedding!” meant that Dean is terrified of facing himself. He can’t own up to DOING it because to him, it’s a thought that is not only too scary to acknowledge, but it’s impossible. In order to be able to work on himself, he would have to face his own demons (literally and metaphorically speaking) and deal with them, which historically Dean has never done. He’s done it for everyone else but himself. Why do you think that is? Because he never wants to face them. He’d rather bury them and never work through them because it’s all too much. He’s struggled with fear, self-hatred, and massive insecurities since Day 1 of Season 1. Now multiply that times like a billion after six and a half seasons of hell, apocalypse, death of everyone he’s ever loved (more than once, in some cases) and now his brother having schizophrenic hell trauma 24/7. Dean is terrified of facing himself because he hates himself. He hated himself before he went to Hell and that only got worse when Cas busted him out. Dean never WANTS to face himself; he’d rather focus on other people and face THEM, because A) he doesn’t have to deal with his own problems (which is pretty common when you want to avoid thinking about troublesome things; you focus on other people’s troubles instead to avoid taking on your own) and B) he likes to fix things and feels the most useful when he can fix something, whether it be the Impala or his brother or a case that needs solving. But fixing himself? Impossible, in his eyes. He’s beyond saving because he’s a worthless nothing who doesn’t deserve saving. It’s the same old self-loathing loop he’s been playing in his head since the very beginning. And why would he bother cracking open that dam of all the regrets he’s carried around for years when he believes there’s no light at the end of the tunnel for him?
I agree with a lot of what you said and I find a lot of what you said interesting, but I really really disagree that Dean sacrificing everything for Sam isn’t enough for Sam. Sam doesn’t want for Dean to sacrifice everything for him. He encourages Dean to want something else for him. He wants Dean to worry about himself. Sam only lied to Dean about the hallucinations because at the time they weren’t a problem, he wasn’t sure what was happening, and he knew that Dean was struggling with everything that was happening. He heard Dean say that Sam was never okay and something would happen. Sam was just trying to help and protect Dean until he knew it was the right time, kind of like Dean lying about Amy.
It isn’t that sacrificing everything isn’t enough for Sam, it’s just that it isn’t enough for the universe. It’s the fact that they save world time after time, but they both still get majorly screwed. Then the brothers try to protect the other one and end up hurting each other. It’s not that either one of them goes around saying you have to everything for me or be everything for me, but when the universe takes everyone they loved, it then starts working on taking what is left of the Winchesters. And now they’re suppose to still save it?
This isn’t a game of who loves more than who. It’s the world that doesn’t love them. I think that’s where a lot of Dean’s brokenness comes from. He lost faith in everything good or the possibility of something being good when his mother died. He said so in “Houses of Holy” and Castiel acknowledged that Dean’s problem is that he has no faith. He never had faith in really anything. I think that’s part of why he has held on so tightly to Sam. But he did believe in one thing. He believed that while the world’s just crap and it is simply filled with violence and chaos, you can make someone else’s life a little better by saving them from going through the same Hell you went through. It was a huge moment in “Wendigo” and I think it defined Dean and why he personally hunted. Now, when was the last time Dean was able to do that? Especially for someone he loves?
I think that Dean wants to trust Sam, but when the world is against you and taking piece by piece everything you and your brother are, then how can you trust anything? There is a scene in “Charmed” I remember and I think that it sums up a part of what Dean is struggling with. One of main characters asks the question of why can’t she have just have one thing that doesn’t get touched by the supernatural world and it just stays hers. I think that’s what Dean wants. He wants for one thing to stay his own and not get mess up by the supernatural world. I think that Sam is the one thing he has always wanted to keep save and untouched. But it was too late for Sam, even before Dean was born, Sam was damned.
Dean has said that the hits against Sam keep coming and they never stop. Sam wants for Dean to take care of himself and let him help him and Dean wants to take care of Sam. For Sam and Dean, they are enough for each other and need time to heal and help each other pick each other off the floor.
But right now, they don’t get that because the world has gotten so screwed up and keeps demanding and taking more and more. It has already taken their family, their friends, normal lives, dreams, hopes, the Impala, and now, it’s taking their sanity. Still, its waiting on the brothers to save it.
“He never had faith in really anything.”
I disagree. He had faith in “family” even up to and after “And Then There Were None”, IMO, but Cas’ betrayal and then Sam’s covering up his hallucinations and leaving, yet again, when Dean was hurt/hurting(unable to do anything w/ a broken leg) “broke” something permanantly and for good in him in that regard. And even after they resolved things, I think Dean has finally come to understand and realize that Sam just doesn’t see family in the same way that he(Dean) sees it-and as Sam told him in Dark Side of the Moon.
After Mary’s death, Dean has never really trusted God, as was made apparent in HotH; and in the long run, the re-appearance of the angels did nothing whatsoever to help him disspell that thought-except for Cas-whom he actually brought into his “family”-only to be betrayed yet again. I think, at this point, though, that Dean blames himself for expecting too much from his “family” now. He sees everything that has happened as just another failing within himself both for not doing enough to help them, and for hoping and expecting too much of them. He does not trust anyone now-least of all himself, in addition to the things that he used to believe with all of his heart in-family-that helped get him through the worst times in his life. In short, he never felt alone as long as he had “family”(even if they were just out there, somewhere) to help him through. To me, Dean is feeling very, VERY! alone right now, and because he doesn’t trust himself-he has no one at all to trust/hope in. Sam seems to have found this kind of thing in himself through his hell experience. Perhaps Sam can now help Dean find it, too. Or if not, and Sam still has a breakdown coming, maybe someone or something else could help Dean find that hope/trust within himself that he so sorely needs to find, in this SPN-verse that these writers have created and chosen to go with. Perhaps in the end, they are trying to tell us that, if we truly believe that we’re “fighting the good fight”, trust in one’s self is just as important(and maybe even more than) as the love and trust we place and in our loved ones.
I think many of the mannerisms that we saw in Dean in the early seasons – his wisecracking, confident, never say die badass attitude that charmed all the ladies and was able to evoke fear with just one brutal stare – are still there. Witness his interaction with Dick Roman. I’d say that was Badass! But I think they’ve been covered over up with all the crap he & Sam have had to deal with over the years. (Kind of like a beautiful hardwood, stuck under horrible 1970’s shag, or that awful indoor/outdoor carpet stuff!)
For instance, the boys dramatically different reactions to Bobby’s injury.. To me they don’t really suggest a disconnect. They just show two very stereotypical ways of dealing with grief.
In the book, “The Mourner’s Dance” by Katherine Ashenburg, she looked at how men and women grieve. In this instance, Dean is acting stereotypically male (don’t want to talk about it.. I’ll deal with it in my own way) and Sam is reacting more stereotypically female (let’s talk.. let’s help each other.) Those two mourning styles can clash, and often cause more misunderstanding and pain. The tragedy is that when two people are mourning in such different ways, neither one gets the needed support. It’s one of the reasons many marriages break up after a child dies.
As for what’s really eating away at Dean, I too believe that many of his problems relate to his time in Hell. Until that point, his life had been based around saving people. His primary concern was the safety of John & Sam (and a few other friends), but he was always ready and willing to save almost anyone who was being threatened by something supernatural.
However, Hell took that inclination, and twisted and perverted it. It turned him into a torturer – someone who intentionally hurts other. Up to that point I don’t think Dean intentionally hurt others, unless it was in the occasional bar fight.
But in Hell, he discovered he could be just as cruel and barbaric as the things they’d always hunted. So, I think whenever he gets to pondering who he really is, its those Hell-images that return and reinforce his belief that he is nothing but a cold-blooded killer.
I’ve also always believed that Dean was the Righteous Man that Azazel & Lucifer wanted all along. I think the whole story of it being John (and how long he lasted under torture) was just to mess with Dean’s mind, and make him feel inadequate. Those demons knew he has self-worth issues. Comparing him to his Dad, and finding him wanting was guaranteed to break Dean a little further.
As well, ever since the beginning of the show, Dean has shown that he takes on the weight of the world. And he admits he feels guilty about everything from the Lindbergh baby to unemployment. Also, it’s clear Dean lets very few people into his heart. But when he decides he loves someone he does it wholly & completely, with all his loyalty and protective instincts on overdrive. So, it stands to reason that he would feel even guiltier when something happens to those he cares about. And that list is long – John, Mary, Sam, Adam, Ellen, Jo, Bobby, Cas.
I think that’s why Dean had such a distressed look on his face when Sam suggested he could now spend some time dealing with his own concerns.
Dean already thinks he knows what he’s going to see if he peels back the layers – the cold-blooded, vicious killer, who only brings pain and suffering to those he loves That’s not really the type of person he wants to face in the mirror everyday, so he drinks to avoid the pain, and the introspection.
His verbal attack on Dick Roman in “Death’s Door” could be seen as motivated by a desire for revenge. I think it was mainly rage at Bobby’s condition. As is so often noted, when Dean’s in deep emotional pain, his default is to get angry and lash out. He’d just reamed out the poor Organ Donation Spokesperson. Dean is devastated by Bobby’s possible death, and so that translates into huge feelings of helplessness, and that feed the anger. In this instance, he got a chance to direct his anger at the being who brought that about. Maybe that is revenge? Or maybe it’s also a return of Dean’s need to save people. He doesn’t want others to suffer like he & Sam & Bobby are suffering, so he’s going to eradicate the Leviathan.
The other thing I’ve noticed is that although neither brother has received much praise or positive feedback, I think its Dean who is really craving it, and would benefit hugely from hearing it.
John told him he was proud of him, and then said he’d likely have to kill Sam. I doubt it’s the first part of that comment which has stuck with Dean!
And I Bobby’s heart was in the right place when he said [i]”You are a better man than your daddy ever was. So you do both of us a favor. Don’t be him.”[/i] But I’m not sure Dean took it as much of a compliment. His relationship with John is too complicated to hear that statement for the praise it is.
I think that because saving & protecting & nurturing people is so important to Dean, he really needs to hear from others that he has value and worth as Dean Winchester, the man.
And that’s the crux of it. In order to crawl out of this abyss, Dean needs to find a way to see his own value and worth. He needs to be able to find a few skills or traits that he can take pride in. I think he used to take some pride in his hunting skills, but as his belief in the usefulness and value of hunting dims, so does his belief in himself.
Dean desperately needs to be able to score on in the Win column.
Oops. I meant Dean desperately needs to be able to score [u]one[/u] in the Win column.
For me, the real Dean Winchester has always been the one we’ve seen at various points in his life.
In contrast to many people out there, Dean has always been authentic, and not a phoney character.
He has been through too much. I doubt that he can take much more.
Just yesterday I watched HelloCruelWorld and was taken aback – again – with Dean’s reaction after finding Bobby’s house in ashes. When he leaves a if-you’re-dead-I’ll-kill-my-brother-and-myself message on his mailbox I was crushed, again.
Should Bobby be gone, I assume there wouldn’t me much Dean would want to live for. He’s at the kind of dark place words cannot describe.
This lovely man…. has always been real. A real, tormented soul in immense pain.
Cheers, Jas
oh Jas.. I loved your last comment. I also have thought Dean to be a lovely man and would never have written it for feeling that I must be warped or something. Even with all the skill at “cutting throats” one can see the inner torment at his not WANTING to be that man. I do believe tho, that we are seeing a lot of who Jensen is in his portrayal of Dean. As an astrologer..I know that strictly speaking an Aquarian which is what Dean is– would have great difficulty in expressing those softer feelings… he WOULD bury them deeply. We see the mastery of the true Picean Jensen in his ability to Show them to us..exquisitely.
Yes lovely. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts with us all..they are always right on…
Thank you, Saltwatergal (what a cute pen name 🙂 ).
I’m writing this without having read any other post (I will go back to them later).
You ask some very interesting questions. I don’t think it’s easy to answer them, but I will say that I’m extremely worried about Dean. He’s been getting more and more despondent since season 5 in my opinion. But since the beginning of season 7, he is virtually on the edge of a precipice.
“Will he go back to the old Dean Winchester, wise cracking and being totally bad ass in going against his foes?” This question most especially is the hardest to answer. I don’t think we will see the old Dean from seasons past, and that is okay, after everything both he and Sam have been through, but he needs to back up off of that ledge.
Let me open up a personal parenthesis here and bare with me, it comes back to Dean eventually. My father was always a happy person, but something happened to him in his forties. He started drinking more, sleeping a whole lot and just generally having a very dark outlook on life. Basically he was not my happy-go-lucky father anymore. And that forlorn look of Dean’s I saw on my father’s face one too many times. Well, unfortunately, my father took the plunge and committed suicide. Okay, end of parenthesis. All I’m saying is that the writers need to do something about Dean’s very dim outlook on life. As you’ve stated, maybe it’ll be Sam or Bobby (gasp) dying. But whatever it is, they need to find something to make Dean care again. I think that’s what the main problem is, is that he just doesn’t care anymore.
I love Dean, always have, always will. I want him to be okay. I’m tired of watching him and saying, “Oh, poor Dean”. Come on, bring back the fire in his belly!
Strangely enough, I have never seen Dean as “poor Dean”… Of course there have been moments when, in a fit of compassion, I just wanted to hug the man, but I never pitied him.
It was more like the proud sensation I get when I watch someone suffer through a great torment and feel how much respect I have for that person – it’s the same with Dean. There is so much weight on his young shoulders, and he’s doing his best to deal with it.
I’ve never seen him wallow in self-pity, and – God knows – he would have had enough reason to do so.
He’s been trying to cope with it all. And that evokes a lot of respect in my heart for this brave man.
Best, Jas
I should have expressed myself better. I certainly don’t pity him and no, he will never wallow in self-pity. He just exudes such a sadness sometimes that makes you want to give him a world size hug. I think both these characters deserve so much for everything they do.
My mother once told me, “Poor you” because I was taking care of her during her chemo treatments. And I told her not to say that, because I was doing it out of love for her. That is sort of what I ment. So, yeah, I didn’t want my mother to pity me, so let’s not pity Dean. I’m with you on that one Jas.
You know it’s amazing how a fictional show like this can make us care so much.
World size hug – sounds great to me 🙂 !
I think this fictional show makes us care so much because it reflects our (the viewers’) lives in many ways.
Many of us have lost loved ones, suffered through the notion of being an outsider or felt that their parents perhaps didn’t think highly of them…
Although planet Winchester is a supernatural one, the trials the characters face are very real. I always loved that about this show, Sylvie. It’s what life is. And one needs to be brave to face the toils of life.
Isn’t it wondrous how brave these guys are and how they remind us of our own courage?
Cheers, Jas
I love this thought. It’s how *I* see Dean also. IMO, he is, in many ways, damaged beyond fixing(because of the hunter’s life that he leads and, in so many ways, actually loves, even as he hopes for a respite from it, at times), and yet, I’ve never lost respect for him because of the intense LOVE! that he virtually radiates, so often, for those whom he deems “family”… For me, it’s that undeniable vulnerability that he feels for his loved ones, no matter their transgressions, that resonates most with me, too-and that makes him him yes, beautiful!-beyond just and only, the exterior.
I think both brothers are only half there so far this season, and since I’m not sure where the writers want to take these two characters, anything I would guess at would only be that; a guess.
As far as Dean is concerned, I am really liking the half-Dean we are seeing, since I hated S6 in every way. What I would like to see is for Dean to go berserk (but not crossing the line into evil and not for revenge — that’s never been Dean’s thing), and for Sam to pull him back. Yes, I want him to get his love of hunting back. Yes, I want to see Dean enjoy the simple things life offered him. Yes, I want to see snark. Yes, I want to see him and Sam have some fun.
I have serious doubts, however, that we will ever see the old Dean again. I don’t think these writers understand what Jensen did to build the old Dean character. I think the current PTB think of Dean as snarky and caregiving, and don’t see the other layers that went into the character. So, basically, I’m expecting the half-Dean from here on out. Yet, half-Dean is better than S6 houseboy Dean, so I am happy.
As far as the brothers being separated in Death’s Door, I thought both characters were totally in character (and didn’t they both do an incredible job portraying that). I don’t expect to see that emotional separation continue when the series starts up again, although I do think we’ll see the brothers doing separate hunting for several episodes. In other words, I think we are going to see their storylines separated at this point.
As other posters have indicated, I think it’s about time the brothers got a win, because; quite frankly, I’m wondering why either one of them keep hunting at this point. My advise to them at this point would be to go get a condo, take Bobby home, and nurse him back to health.
My idea of Dean can be described in a few scenes: Quintessential Dean when he took on Ruby to get the knife in No Rest For the Wicked, adaptive Dean in Folsum Prison Blues and his first meeting with Rufus, explosive Dean in confronting the organ donor man, and badass Dean when he stabbed the policeman in No Rest For the Wicked and confronted Dick Roman.
P.S. I’m interested to see if Dean gets the kill on Dick Roman. Every time Dean has promised someone they are going to die throughout the series, they have died. I hope the show doesn’t drop that storyline.
Samuel Campbell-killed by Sam
Walt and Roy-still at large
Gordon Walker-turned into a vamp then killed by Sam
The only ons I could remember.
[quote]Samuel Campbell-killed by Sam
The YED also. Promised in In The Beginning.
Walt and Roy-still at large
Gordon Walker-turned into a vamp then killed by Sam
The only ons I could remember.[/quote]
Dean never told Roy/Walt that he would kill them, only that he would come back pissed. SG has said that Roy/Walt are too “small fry” for Dean to worry about, so we probably will never see them again. I am disappointed in that decision.
I agree that Dean’s threats are usually just huffing and puffing. He doesn’t get the kills, but they do die. That’s why I’m interested to see how this one goes.
At least Dean has a purpose on the show. Sam is a empty space a pretence the writers keep up..
Ah, come on. I think, it would be so very sad, if you actually believed that.
Who was it said ‘I do not agree with what you say but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it’?*
*As long as what you have to say doesn’t go against the rules of the site….
I assume you still have a least a little hope or you wouldnt still be watching?
I somewhat agree with you simply because I feel that Sam has become more of a plot device over the past few years than an actual character. I’ve gotten used to it by now and I watch for Jared’s performance and thats enough for me.
Awesome look Alice. It’s always fun to ponder The Dean. Sadly unable to read through the undoubtedly awesome comments above, but I couldn’t pass by without dropping a word.
[quote] Dean Winchester without a purpose for ten episodes has not made for a compelling character. [/quote]
Just would like to add a different POV on this. I’m excited by what is happening to Dean this season. [i]Very[/i] excited. It’s not so much who he is but the building potential of where he is heading. In fact, I can’t think of another season where I’ve been so captivated and pumped about Dean!
Who is Dean Winchester? Have we ever really knowns that? The wonderful, lovable wise cracking Dean of the first seasons was so much of a cover up to his Daddy issues and need to protect Sam. The following seasons dumped so much trauma, crap and stress on him that he has never had a chance to really get his feet underneath him.
But THIS season, Sam is truly grown up, a partner (if a coo coo one) and Dean has to actually face and find himself. For real. Dean has to find out who Dean Winchester is! Yippeeeee! And considering the Awesomeness he is when operating at “90% crap” how fantastic will he be when the man finally accepts his own value?
Sorry for the fast ramble, I fear it may be slightly jumbled.But I’ll say it again, I’m excited!
Actually it is attributed to Voltaire,but historians are at odds here – there is no proof, since this particular quote doesn’t appear in writing.
Voltaire (aka Francois Marie Arouet) wrote in a letter the following sentence: “I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write.” So, perhaps the quote Tim mentions above came to be via a game of Chinese whispers… 😆
Cheers, Jas
Hi Alice,
You had once asked about the channels in which supernatural was telecasting in our respective countries..well from season 5 i have been watching supernatural on internet till then i was only watching it on TV (AXN india)..Recently when i had gone home i came to know that from dec 27th they are going to start telecasting supernatural (season 1)in Star world. I am not sure about the timings..
I think it is 9 pm (not sure… but this is the prime time right?)
Its amazing how much easier it is to get a read on Dean than of Sam.
And yet do any of us REALLY have a read on him? Unpredictable-in both explosive and calculating ways-seems to be what Dean is all about these days-and kudos to everyone who’s been involved in giving those awesome and iconic things about this awesome and iconic character back to us, this season(please, let it continue and progress, writers…)
I really feel sorry for Dean! he always have to save the world, clean someone’s mess and he never have little peace of mind. In this season he suffered much more than he could take. he deserved something good!