The fifth episode of season 11, written by new writer Nancy Won, is titled “Thin Lizzie” and focuses on the case of a seeming haunting by Lizzie Borden that quickly turns into a myth episode about the power of Amara.
The episode begins in a bed and breakfast with a young couple and there is a cute Ghostfacers mention before the couple sees the lights flicker as an old record plays in the background. A door opens and a ghost appears and kills both with a hatchet in “Lizzie’s Room.”

In the bunker Sam and Dean are researching the Darkness and they find a case at the Lizzie Borden Bed and Breakfast and Museum. Dean thinks it may be a psycho fan but Sam argues it could be a case. Sam apparently has a serial killer fetish. They head out and leave Castiel to binge watch “The Wire.” At the B&B, the hotel owner is trying to convince people not to cancel.  Sam and Dean take the deceased couple’s room. We find out the young man was a Borden descendant. Sam claims Lizzie’s rather “rosy” room.

The classic EMF comes out. Dean goes to search the hotel while Sam follows the EMF lead. Sam finds an abandoned room while Dean checks out the museum. The lights flicker and Dean finds some weird guy taking pictures through the window. Sam goes to the attic and discovers an old audio setup. They figure out the bed and breakfast is a tourist trap and leave. The hotel owner’s mother sets up for the night and is going to bed when she is axed.

Back at the B&B the boys investigate the murder. Dean takes out the EMF and sees no indication of activity. We find out that the photographer from before is a local named Len who is obsessed with ghosts. Another ax killing happens in the next county over and the boys go to find out more information. The wife of the victim orders Sam to leave before questioning her. Dean is with Len, the Borden superfan. Len shows Dean his spirit camera and explains he is restricted from being near the inn. Len trespassed on Lizzie’s birthday and Dean realizes he knows the inn well.

Sam is suspicious about the wife. Dean finds an envelope on Len’s desk that has a sketch of the Mark of Cain. Len says he ran into a young girl, Amara, outside the inn. Amara apparently loves serial killers too, like Sam. She also sucked out poor Len’s soul and now he is not a fan and is kind of sad - a short chubby Soulless. Dean calls Sam and tells him that the infant Amara is now 12 years old.

Sam and Dean meet back up. They have an existential debate about soullessness and it’s connection to killing. Sam and Dean argue about who gets to tell Len he’s soulless. Len rides in the backseat and describes how he feels a dark thing inside, hatching wings. Dean bluntly tells him that Amara sucked out his soul. Sam tsks at his lack of sensitivity. Hunters probably need an HR department and workshops, let’s be honest.

Sam and Dean investigate the house of the latest murder victim and Sam finds the son tied up. The young girl draws a gun on Sam and she gets it over on the boys. We see that she encountered Amara and the girl got her soul sucked. She retells her abuse as a child and how her current soullessness is now painless. She is light. She is the axe murderer. She thinks that praying to Amara keeps her close. She calls Amara a goddess. Sam gets saved by Len who kills the girl with an axe, of course. The girl announces the darkness is coming before she dies. It is a peacefulness, this darkness….

In the final scenes Sam consoles Jordie, the boy whose parents were killed. He tells his own story and talks about surviving loss. Len explains to Dean that he feels pain but he doesn’t really feel it. Len is having an existential crisis. Len suggests Dean kill him but Dean refuses. Len says he’s gonna confess to all the murders so he can be locked up and not kill again. Sam and Dean discuss different reactions to soullessness. Sam says he is afraid of Amara and Dean says that his experience with her was quiet. The episode ends with the boys leaving and Amara coming out of the bushes, staring after the car, promising that she’ll see Dean soon.

Questions, Observations, Feelings:

1. Okay, so where is Crowley? Did Amara prison break?

2. What is the soul? What is soullessness? Yes, Philosophy class 101 tonight.

3. What do you think Dean is feeling now? Does he feel the peace that the girl did and if so, what could that lead to?

4. Why is Amara obsessed with Dean? Is it the Mark of Cain?

5. So Sam has a serial killer thing. Discuss.

6. Wasn’t the actor who played Len so fantastic?

7. Congratulations to Nancy Won on a wonderfully entertaining first episode! Welcome to the SPNFamily!


Leave thoughts, feelings, other things here.

Comments  

rmoats8621
# rmoats8621 2015-11-04 22:40
Great episode. So far, so good with Season 11. Oh and his name was Len not Glen.
Grace232
# Grace232 2015-11-04 22:54
Sam's habit of discussing serial killer stats, and Dean being freaked out by it, was discussed by the brothers in the car during Executioner's Song.

I totally loved this episode. So old school - banter between the brothers, creepy scary, pulling in the myth arc, the music! This season is shaping up to be one of the best so far!
Scullspeare
# Scullspeare 2015-11-04 23:01
4. Quote:
Why is Amara obsessed with Dean? Is it the Mark of Cain?
I'll be glad when we get back to the adult Amara to answer this question. The young actresses are doing their best but the menace is missing. I think back to the Mother of All Monsters and, for me, it didn't work because the actress sounded like a Valley Girl - ie not scary in the least. The only time she had any real menace was when she was played by Mary Winchester herself, Sam Smith. Emily Swallow (the adult Amara in the première), however, seems to have the chops to go toe-to-toe with Dean (and scare him, if that's what the story requires). Someone point teen Amara to an all-you-can-eat souls buffet so we can get Emily back on screen ASAP.

Quote:
7. Congratulations to Nancy Won on a wonderfully entertaining first episode! Welcome to the SPNFamily!
Seconded. Great SPN début for Nancy Won - a win for Won you might say. :D She did her homework and/or someone was fact checking against canon. That alone makes me smile.
Nice mix of MOTW and mytharc, and it's always good to see the boys working a case together. Minor quibble: it was a little heavy on the exposition. More show, less tell would have strengthened the story.

We're four-for-five to kick off Season 11. That makes me a happy SPN fan.
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-05 09:52
Quote:
Great SPN début for Nancy Won - a win for Won you might say. :D She did her homework and/or someone was fact checking against canon. That alone makes me smile.
AGREED! :)
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2015-11-04 23:02
Awesome episode. Congrats to Nancy Won for penning an entertaining, engaging hour of our favorite show that had creepy fun, great guest stars and both boys engaged and involved.

1. I wondered about Crowley too. Does he know she's gone?

2. I loved the talk about souls and I especially loved that Dean got some real insight finally into what it must have been like for Sam. He and Len had great rapport and I was thrilled that Sam actually got to say something about what it was like too. So intriguing.

3. I think Dean is in denial as per usual. And he has no leg to stand on when Sam finally finds out what is going on with him. I sincerely hope they don't drag it out too long because I really don't want this to become a wedge between them.

4. i'm assuming it's the mark.

5. Was that adorable or what? First he sort of denies it, and then he flat out tells Dean he's not giving up the room. Bahahaha. I loved it. And I can see how the minds of serial killers would intrigue Sam. He likes to understand how people's minds work and maybe how it fits in with their view of the supernatural.

6. He was fantastic. All of that exposition would have been deadly dull without a good actor to handle it and he did great. I kind of wish we'd see him again.

7. Fantastic. Sam and Dean were SAM AND DEAN. Dean was snarky and funny and skeptical and Sam was snarky and funny and empathetic and smart. And I can forgive Sam being tied up (although I have a minor quibble about why he couldn't have gotten that shot gun away from the girl while she was trying to tie him up) because he got out of the rope like the good hunter he is and tried to save them. Great job by everyone involved.
kathy
# kathy 2015-11-04 23:11
Reposting a tweet: new rules I think not. Great way to bring the original rules back. Suspenseful episode another classic who done it.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-11-04 23:55
1. Okay, so where is Crowley? Did Amara prison break? I wonder too. I'm guessing prison break, but maybe he's letting her have some freedom? I don't think he can keep her unless she consents and he may prefer to act as if he still has a say in whether she goes or stays.

2. What is the soul? What is soullessness? Yes, Philosophy class 101 tonight. This is a really good question. For Sam it was a lack of conscience. For the people in Mother's Little Helper it was violent insanity. For Jenna and the babysitter is was becoming homicidal. For Len it was not feeling anything, knowing he could kill again and knowing it was wrong. Len seems very close to what Soulless!Sam was like; knowing something was wrong, something was missing, but not knowing what. It does seem like a person's underlying personality shapes how they react to being soulless.

3. What do you think Dean is feeling now? Does he feel the peace that the girl did and if so, what could that lead to? I think Amara was right, Dean is bound to her. After he came back from Hell, Dean had a period of time where he said he didn't want to feel anything. That could resurface. If he doesn't feel the peace the babysitter felt, I think he could want to feel it.

4. Why is Amara obsessed with Dean? Is it the Mark of Cain? I think it's the MOC. She said he set her free, but he was only part of that. Ultimately she should be looking at Rowena, but that would put Rowena at the center of the story and that doesn't work. I'm guessing that the MOC acted like a bridge between Amara and Dean (and probably Cain when he was alive) so she feels connected to him.

5. So Sam has a serial killer thing. Discuss. I was really impressed that they remembered that, because Dean had teased Sam about it before. Nice continuity.

6. Wasn’t the actor who played Glen so fantastic? He really was. Great job!

7. Congratulations to Nancy Won on a wonderfully entertaining first episode! Welcome to the SPNFamily! Absolutely. She did a great job of getting Sam and Dean AND of fleshing out the guest characters. Most of them felt like people not plot points.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-11-05 01:21
It was a pretty darn good episode especially coming from a new writer. I am impressed Nancy Won. It is curious that there was no mention of Crowley. The actor who played Len was terrific. I liked the detective also. I also liked the call back to Sam's interest in serial killers. I believe the first time it was brought up was back in No Exit. I am really glad they made a point of saying that soullessness varied from person to person. At least it was acknowledged because soullessness has been all over the map in this series.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-11-05 01:29
I liked this episode a lot. After Baby it was going to be a tough road for the next episode no matter how good it was. Nancy Won did a very nice job. She seems to get the show.
Jen
# Jen 2015-11-05 01:29
I feel the old comfort back this season with Supernatural back to its roots. The Boys teasing each other/some great banter going back and forth Cheeky smart ass Dean and cleaver tough Sam The story line blended beautifully And the first thing I picked up on was PINKY/RED FOWERS and the red colour being prodominent again. Wednesday beleived this to be the colour of evil/deception ? correct
I'm wondering if it is deception -- towards Amara ?? To me Dean appears a little off Deception there maybe ?? I know he is trying to sort his connection to Amara out and as Jensen said in a couple of interviews Dean is nervous about this but I don't know somethings off particular around Sam

1. Okay, so where is Crowley? Did Amara prison break? I don't beleive Crowley can control her as much as he thinks No prison break I reckon she just walked or teleported out for a look around maybe to get some fresh soul food. Amara was probably getting sick of that demon soul food.

2. What is the soul? What is soullessness? Yes, Philosophy class 101 tonight. Thats a big qustion an the answer is as individual as the person - we all have darkness, good/evil balance. When we loose our soul (more our conscience - Like Dean said to Sam "I'll be your Jimmy Cricket") It depends on your life experiences, trust,love,fami ly as to which way you go. Glen was a lovely man a bit of a nerd but more harmless than anything. So he didn't go all out killer straight away but he knew it was comming and wanted it ended before he started I beleive in the end having no soul leads to a killer

3. What do you think Dean is feeling now? Does he feel the peace that the girl did and if so, what could that lead to? Confusion no understanding of the connection

4. Why is Amara obsessed with Dean? Is it the Mark of Cain? It goes beyond the MOC and I'm frustrated I can work it out. I wish one of you ladies would come up with a feasible thought because honestly I might go nuts if someone doesn't soon

5. So Sam has a serial killer thing. Discuss. Always had as be metioned in comment above Just part of who Sam is he may have started that interest back in S1 when he was studying to be a lawyer It would have been handy to know these things and could have been part of his degree

6. Wasn’t the actor who played Glen so fantastic? Perfect exactly the way I try to explain soulessness and the way I saw Sam as Soulless

7. Congratulations to Nancy Won on a wonderfully entertaining first episode! Welcome to the SPNFamily! Yes wonderful she picked up on the myth arc, the boys characters, mannerisms, back story, everything perfectly, THANK YOU THANK YOU
Russ
# Russ 2015-11-05 01:33
+56 Rad Points go to Newbie Nancy for the Ghostfacers call out.




I just paused the episode for that. I'll be back when it's over. WOOT!
Dellamirandola
# Dellamirandola 2015-11-05 03:02
'Why is Amara obsessed with Dean?'

This made me laugh. I mean, have you *seen* Dean? You don't have to be the Darkness to be obsessed with him as tumblr amply proves...

I realise this will be a supremely unpopular opinion but now I want there to be an episode involving Becky and Amara bonding over their Winchester obsessions and Becky using her insider knowledge of how fan obsession works to take Amara down much to Sam and Dean's surprise...
Jen
# Jen 2015-11-05 03:05
Just wondering about Amara/Dean connection. One of the themes of this season was that some of the Boys past mistakes will come back and bite them. These weren't mistakes so much but more circumstance Dean's dark emotional problems started back in S4 when he went to hell and amitted how much he enjoyed tortureing souls. He then over many seasons began to really believe he wasn't a good person. Then he went to purgatory, where he found "peace'" and was comfortable killing bad things. Then of course their was the MOC, killing of Abadon, trying to kill Sam/Castiel. His time as Demon Dean ---- his darkness.
But underneath all of this ugliness we know Dean is a good Man. What if this describes Amara. What if other than the MOC connecting them (Lock & Key) What if it is Dean's darkness as well / what if she thinks by showing Dean her idea of a perfect world she thinks she is helping Dean by playing on his Dark side. This could be why Dean is so nervous about his connection with her
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-05 06:42
I thought that this episode was a great first outing for new writer Nancy Won. I found it a bit on the slow side here and there, but I did appreciate the reversal she played on us, starting off as a MotW and suddenly flipping it over to a myth arc ep with the discovery of the drawing of the MoC. That was a nice touch and I got a bit of a chill when Dean saw that drawing. There were a few things that were a bit conventional; like the boys tied up (both of them this time!) while the MoW monologues. I guess we needed to see that, and by and large it was pretty well done and gave us some key movement on the plot, but I kind of have to eye roll at Sam putting his gun down so deliberately and Dean getting clocked in the cellar.... by a teenage girl no less. Boo. I wish they had done more with Jordie as a character.... when Sam was trying to connect with him at the end it felt kind of forced as there wasn't much characterizatio n for that kid to begin with.

Still and all this was a nice episode and there were quite a few things I appreciated. Sam's serial killer fetish goes all the way back to season 1, so that was a nice bit of long term continuity. And Dean's ribbing over it was fun, a nice bit of teasing that came off as being very affectionate rather than critical. I liked that when the boys split up (which they did several times in this episode) that the camera followed BOTH of them and that they BOTH realized important things about the case and they BOTH interacted with the guest characters. I liked how well fleshed out Len was as a character. He was nerdy and charming and confused all at the same time. His character provided all of the back story and yet he was interesting and I cared about him. I especially liked that Sam actually got to mention how it was for him when he was soulless. One of the things that has really bugged me about this show lately is the fact that so many past events for the brothers has been ignored even when present circumstances are similar. Take the MoC for example. Dean has this supernatural entity inside of him and feels like a monster. You'd think that this might prompt him to ask his brother about what that feels like seeing as how Sam has had to deal with something similar his whole life. Not one time in the interminable 35 episodes that framed the MoC did Dean and Sam have a discussion about 'the monster within.' It made zero sense to me that they wouldn't connect over something like that; that Sam wouldn't go back to his time when he was under the influence of Demon Blood to try and find how to help his brother thought the MoC. It was never even mentioned, this glaringly obvious connection between the brothers. So I was pretty surprised to hear Sam say "when I was soulless....." glory hallelujah! A writer made a connection to relevant past events to provide context for current events! I also think that she handled in a very smart way the conflicting canon on soullessness that we've been getting up till now. Instead of trying to draw it all together and give it a sense of continuity (which would have been a mistake I think) she made the reaction people have to soullessness even more erratic and varied. That was the best way to go. After Sam's reaction to soullessness, none of the other character's we've found out were soulless reacted anything like Sam did, and without any kind of explanation as to why each case was so different it was starting to create a problem. Thank you Ms. Won for straightening this out by providing a believable reason for why everyone's reactions were so different.

I agree with Scullspere about Amara though; I am not getting any real menace from these younger actresses. It's making me appreciate even more the little blond girl who played Lilith in season 5. How that child found such a creepy and murderous vibe is quite impressive given how none of these other younger actors seems to be able to do it. Will Emily Swallow play Adult Amara here on earth I wonder? Or will another actress be the earth bound Amara and Emily Swallow will only be the Amara in the mist? I'd rather it be Emily Swallow as she is capable it seems of being truly menacing and dangerous.

Minor quibbles. I am getting a little bit tired of the one liners they are inserting at the start of an episode to explain why we won't be seeing such-and-such a character. They did it at the start of Baby, and they did it here. Yes, it's amusing that Cas is addicted to Netflix, but a short scene with him would be preferable to a dismissive reference and lame excuse as to why we wouldn't be seeing that character. And I'd have liked even one line about Baby being all better after last weeks episode.....she looked pretty rough then and now she's all pretty and perfect again. How long did it take the boys to fix her? Was it expensive? Was it hard to find parts? This is nit picky, but still a shoutout to the previous episode wouldn't have gone amiss IMO. So, overall a B+ for me. A nice solid episode that was relevant and called out to Supernatural's own past in a way that none of the seasoned writers seem to be doing much of. Welcome aboard Ms. Won! We are 4 for 5... and since I am pretty much ignoring episode 3 altogether, it's more like we are 4 for 4! Heh. ;)
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2015-11-05 07:29
That's funny. I was just commenting on another site about whether that is going to be their excuse all season for Castiel not being around. He's bingeing Netflix and they can't get him away from the TV. And yeah, one quick mention about Baby would have given some nice continuity.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-05 18:39
No, next week it will be that Cas has found the IMDB boards and the Winchester Family Business site. The week after that he will have discovered fan fiction... Poor Cas, he's one of us now! ;)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-05 08:14
Your review pretty much expresses my own opinion almost verbatim. Not that that stopped me from adding my own two cents below!
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-05 08:43
I always want to read your two cents!! :D:D
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-05 09:58
Ditto for you both! :)
Shante
# Shante 2015-11-05 06:43
1. my grade is A+
2. Nancy, Welcome to Supernatural!
Jen
# Jen 2015-11-05 07:25
Just a shout out to Wednesday the colour RED was everywhere very prodominant this week and those red flowers as well What about the blue colour in the teenage girls hair very vibrant Can you please explain this Thanks Jen
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-05 08:08
I liked this episode, and it was a good first outing for NW, but I had a few issues with it.

What I really liked:
she "gets" both brothers. what a joy to see a writer who seems to appreciate each brother's characteristics and has their action and dialogue be character-drive n rather than purely plot-driven. I loved the references to Sam's serial killer interest, and Dean's skepticism, and the brotherly banter which never veered into harshness. I loved the continuity of referring back to Sam's soullessness. NW is a continuity queen so far!

I love that when the brothers split up, we got to see what each of them did. I actually tensed up when they separated because I thought, here we go. Sam is conveniently out of the way while interesting stuff happens to Dean. Hooray that NW doesn't seem to be that type of writer!

I loved the Ghostfacers shout out. I laughed out loud when that was referenced.

I loved how they are finally explaining (somewhat) why soullessness affects different people differently. It was my own personal way of reconciling it and it is really the only explanation that makes much sense. It also gives them a lot of leeway going forward with how to plot things.

I loved Len. Great character and actor. Nuff said.

What I didn't like:

the resolution to the axe murders was kind of silly. The fact that the babysitter used to work at the B&B doesn't explain how she miraculously appeared behind the girl in the first scene.

I found the tween Amara every bit as uninteresting as the young girl Amara. She sucked all of the energy and interest out of her scenes. With all of the great menacing and compelling female characters and actresses SPN has had, they could have done much better than this. PLEASE grow this girl up fast! So far, the Amara story in general falls far short of this vastly powerful force that supposedly is inspiring fear and dread in all creatures. They need to step up this story more quickly, because so far I think it's a snooze. Not that it's NW's fault.

The babysitter's monologue went on far too long. She could have relayed the same amount of info to the brothers more interestingly and in half the time. I thought that scene dragged, maybe just so Sam would have time to get loose?

Overall, a good ep. I like NW's approach to the characters and I think she is an enormous improvement over AG. I can't wait to see her next ep.
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-05 10:09
I agree with everything you liked! In regard to what you did not like; I agree but minor. I went back and re-watched the first scene. Only explanation is babysitter non ghost was hiding in the room;). Babysitter monologue was a bit long, probably tired of Sam and Dean being held captive while the monster explains themselves. There must be another way!!!! Amara is a bit of a bore but I threw in my two cents below as to why. :) Let me know what you think.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-11-05 08:12
I liked this episode a lot; an early season/spooky vibe to it. A few minor quibbles but this is the best start to a season in a very long time. And, miracle of miracles, we have a new writer that did her homework; Nancy Won is a keeper.

Dean is definitely "off"; not as noticeable as Soulless Sam was, but something isn't quite right with him. And I guess this is Dean's season for getting knocked unconscious; it's usually Sam getting his brains scrambled. We also saw a new ability by Amara, taking away a person's emotional baggage/"pain".

1. Okay, so where is Crowley? Did Amara prison break?
Geez... can't a primordial, prehistoric being in the body of a young girl take a field trip?

2. What is the soul? What is soullessness? Yes, Philosophy class 101 tonight.
Have seen some interesting definitions and I think percysowner was on to something when she said a person's underlying personality has a lot to do with shaping how the person reacts to being soulless.

3. What do you think Dean is feeling now? Does he feel the peace that the girl did and if so, what could that lead to?
Something is off with Dean but he is definitely worried about this "connection". His off handed comment at the end of the episode to Sam about Sam's visions being crazy makes me wonder what makes Dean believe his visions are real or more accurate/believ able than Sam's. Still surprised Dean hasn't made reference to Sam's visions in Seasons 1/2. This will become a point of contention in upcoming episodes and, in keeping with the earlier season vibe, it won't be long before Dean resorts to the F word and calls Sam a freak.

4. Why is Amara obsessed with Dean? Is it the Mark of Cain?
They are linked and the removal of the Mark from Dean resulted in her release. And, just as demons and angels (usually) need to take vessels to interact with humans, that's why Amara had to be "born"; I'm guessing she becomes more powerful as she ages.

5. So Sam has a serial killer thing. Discuss.
This was brought up previously, so nice continuity and attention to detail by the new writer.

6. Wasn’t the actor who played Glen so fantastic?
I think his name was Len and you're right, he was great; it's a shame they probably can't find a way to bring him back. Also thought he looked familiar and found out he was in Book of Mormon on Broadway.

7. Congratulations to Nancy Won on a wonderfully entertaining first episode! Welcome to the SPNFamily!
Yeah!!! Another good writer.
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2015-11-05 10:00
That's prehistoric primordial tween. :) Yeah, Dean is being a bit too calm about it all. Someone suggested that Amara may gotten Dean's soul, but I can't see Dean being so calm if he was soulless. I see him as even worse than Soulless Sam as far as collateral damage. Innocent people in the name of getting the job done plus anyone who pissed him off. But I guess we'll see. I'm getting a bad feeling that when Sam finally finds out what Dean's been hiding it's because he's going to automatically protect her from someone, probably Sam, trying to kill her. I hope they don't brush that off.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-11-05 11:52
Oh yeah I think it is Len. :) Something does seem off about Dean, I hope she didn't take his soul. He doesn't seem that off. His "going through the motions" would be some pretty good acting on Dean's part. They did make a point of pointing out how it varies from person. I would be disappointed in that development because I am enjoying the brothers relationship this year, would hate it if Dean wasn't Dean.
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2015-11-05 12:17
It didn't actually occur to me until someone suggested it on tumblr. I actually didn't notice anything off about Dean so much as he is just not talking about things.
I would also be disappointed, not only because of the boys finally getting on the same page, but also because it would feel like they're just rehashing Sam's storylines with Dean now. The MOC, which wasn't done to him without his consent, but was something that took over and was almost an addiction, and now soullessness. Unless the point of it would be for Dean to finally GET Sam and actually have some character growth. I would not be unhappy if we got Dean telling Sam he finally gets what it's like to be him and not be in control of what is happening to you.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-11-05 12:46
I too would like Dean to get Sam after walking in his shoes. At least it would give some purpose to Dean repeatedly blaming Sam for being soulless and not telling Dean that he was soulless, even though Sam only knew something was wrong, not that he didn't have a soul. Dean would finally have a point of reference.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-05 18:41
I, too, would be disappointed if Dean is soulless. It would contradict what Jensen has repeatedly stated about how the brothers are just themselves this year, and not under the influence of any supernatural force. So if he is soulless, that would mean that either Jensen was lying (which I really doubt he'd do) or he hadn't been told about it even after multiple episodes had been filmed. That latter possibility would be troubling because it would indicate that there is no well-planned story arc for the year, ala last season. Also, Jensen has certainly not been portraying Dean as soulless IMO, even granting that it affects everyone differently. If Dean is soulless, it would completely undermine almost every aspect of how Dean has been portrayed this season. While Dean certainly is behaving a little oddly in some ways, it's far more likely that it due to his increasing concern about his connection to Amara. At least I hope that's the case.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-05 19:46
Agree with you all...... REALLY don't want a re-tread of Sam's soulless storyline watered down for Dean. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED soulless Sam; he was bad ass, unpredictable, funny and terrifying. I could have watched that all season long. But if they go that way with Dean it will be MoC part deux because the writers have already proven that they don't have the guts to write Dean in the way that the story demands if Dean needs to be bad. They had Sam shoot that waitress, use the sheriff as bait, kill the demon and then walk over his body. They will never do that with Dean so a soulless Dean storyline can't work, the same way that the MoC storyline didn't work. I'm hoping that Dean is more 'hypnotized' in a way. Maybe the stronger Amara gets the more connected to her he will feel and will have to fight his instincts to protect her. That would be interesting and something we haven't seen yet.
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-05 09:39
Job Well done by Ms. Won. I have to laugh, this had such an awesome old school vibe that my initial reaction was one of disappointment that Lizzie was not a real ghost because I really wanted to see the SPN spin on her story. Well written, entertaining episode with all the necessary elements: main characters Sam and Dean written in character and the center of the action; finely acted interesting supporting characters- all of them but (G)Len did shine; movement on the myth arc; continuity on the epic question of the soul; humor, empathy and of course the creepy/ mystery factor. I share others' observation that she did indeed do her homework. Great continuation: Ghostfacers, Soulless Sam and the puppet reference (6.09 Clap Your Hands... ) Sam's interest in serial killers.

1. Okay, so where is Crowley? Did Amara prison break?
Crowley is back at his hell adjacent place topside wringing his hands about the whereabouts of his prize. I do not need to see or hear about him in every episode. I don't think Amara is in prison because she cannot be controlled. Obviously she can teleport. Initially, i shared others feeling that the little/ older girl Amara was a tad boring and not menacing (and yes, I was scared to death of little blonde Lillith), BUT, I think she is supposed to be played like this. The role is being acted as she sees herself; the hero of her own story, the goddess who is stronger than God who will bring you heroin bliss who will take you to the big empty. She is calm, methodical, contemplative and as Dean said quiet. The DARKNESS is coming and it is not HELL - No evil, blood, gore, torture. It is not Heaven - good, love, light. It is not Earth- no free will, choices, relationships, emotions, human nature. It is the silent destroyer.... IT is the BIG NOTHING !

2. What is the soul? What is soullessness? Yes, Philosophy class 101 tonight.
Universal question that can be discussed all season. For starters: The essence of your being that is separate from your body and mind that is powerful and can transcend time, place and is immortal.

3. What do you think Dean is feeling now? Does he feel the peace that the girl did and if so, what could that lead to?
Dean is NOT feeling peace. He is confused and conflicted. He felt the personal connection, was drawn to Amara in the midst and sensed her "quietness" but he needs to reconcile the growing Amara who is sucking down souls and who is the embodiment of the warned about DARKNESS.

4. Why is Amara obsessed with Dean? Is it the Mark of Cain?
I think the writers are still working/ developing the answer to that question and by the end of the season may morph it into something no one guessed.
I will say that I was totally creeped out by Amara when she emerged from the trees at the end of the episode. Feel free to scoff as I did at the FEED ME baby blocks scene. We all have our different scare factor. The stalker vibe and her ability to zero in on Dean was scary. It was that quiet Broment and there she was...... knowing, moving in.

5. So Sam has a serial killer thing. Discuss.
Yes, it is an interest based on his intellect/ line of work.

6. Wasn’t the actor who played Glen so fantastic?
YES!!!! seriously felt empathy for the character as to his fate. A harmless everyday man condemned to earthly life in prison and eternal life without a soul????

7. Congratulations to Nancy Won on a wonderfully entertaining first episode! Welcome to the SPNFamily!
Well said. Agreed. THANK YOU NANCY!!!!!!
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-05 18:27
Quote:
The role is being acted as she sees herself; the hero of her own story, the goddess who is stronger than God who will bring you heroin bliss who will take you to the big empty. She is calm, methodical, contemplative and as Dean said quiet. The DARKNESS is coming and it is not HELL - No evil, blood, gore, torture. It is not Heaven - good, love, light. It is not Earth- no free will, choices, relationships, emotions, human nature. It is the silent destroyer.... IT is the BIG NOTHING !


I agree that this is how Amara has been portrayed so far. And I think it's a nice twist on the previous big bads. But in the scenes with adult Amara she exuded an air of mystery and power, which I found very effective. This tween Amara, however, was quite literally a "big nothing" IMO. :D I don't know if it's poor acting or uninspired directing, but she seems more like a character in one of those movies or shows where teenagers suddenly acquire super powers and become super powered brats, than like a primordial being of immense power. It just isn't working for me. But the preview seems to show a much older Amara, so I guess it's a moot point. As far as the rest of your review, I agree!
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-11-05 18:40
How many Amara's are we going to get? xD
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-05 18:51
I think the feeling is, dammit, they're going to keep trying out new ones until one of them gets it right! :D
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-05 21:31
Quote:
This tween Amara, however, was quite literally a "big nothing" IMO
That was my point. :) But I will take this Amara over the the next version which is the SPOILER -teenage whiny Claire- like version.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-05 21:55
The good news is that after her most recent soul sucking adventure in Massachusetts it looks like Amara graduates from tween to teen. The new Amara actress appears to be about 16. I have a question. Do you think Amara will notice the difference between the souls Crowley has been feeding her (corrupted demon souls) and the more pristine fully human souls that she's been consuming lately? I'd like to know if she notices a difference, if the more pure souls are more satisfying and if she's pissed at Crowley for feeding her "junk food."
Russ
# Russ 2015-11-06 00:39
I was wondering that myself.

Does she notice the difference between Crowley's tainted offerings, and the fresh souls she's getting herself, and... not just are the more satisfying, but do cleaner souls affect her state of mind differently than the demon souls?
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-06 06:32
Or are the pure souls providing her with more power and create in her a bigger need for more..... FEED ME!
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-06 08:17
It is possible that some time in the future a more mature Amara may contemplate the difference between the empty souls of demons and those of humans. But so far she just commented on the emptiness while consuming demon souls and did not make the connection. She felt baby sitter chicks' pain, gave her orgasmic chocolate cake peace but ate her soul anyway. We also know Len had a good soul and was not in pain and we have no idea what Amara's reaction to that was. Your guess is as good as mine on this one. Wait and see.
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-05 10:42
Quote:
Something is off with Dean but he is definitely worried about this "connection". His off handed comment at the end of the episode to Sam about Sam's visions being crazy makes me wonder what makes Dean believe his visions are real or more accurate/believable than Sam's. Still surprised Dean hasn't made reference to Sam's visions in Seasons 1/2. This will become a point of contention in upcoming episodes and, in keeping with the earlier season vibe, it won't be long before Dean resorts to the F word and calls Sam a freak.
I agree, Dean is concerned about his "connection" and I don't think he quite knows what that is yet and is laying low until HE gets a handle on it. I do not think he believes his visions are more accurate than Sam's. I think Dean was genuinely offering another means to track down Amara... follow Sam's crazy (visions) or the body count in the wake. Dean always called Sam's visions or psychic connections crazy because he fears anything "not normal" with Sam. He wants to count on his "normal" brother. His father put the fear in him about Sam.... watch out for him or kill him. But this time, I think he said "crazy" a bit more nonchalantly and is not as critical.
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2015-11-06 09:27
I agree. I didn't get the sense that Dean was off in this ep. He was pretty much Dean....but I will say this...I think what Amara said bothers him. In usual Dean fashion he tries to avoid it...I still don't think he told Sam what she said to him about being bonded. It's a secret he's keeping that's slowly starting to freak him out...this scenario is very reminiscent of when he kept what Dad told him about having to kill Sam if he couldn't save him. When Dean found out from Len what Amara is doing, Dean's fear started to actually show. From the promo and how anxious he's becoming about killing her, I suspect we and Sam will begin to notice more and more with each new ep how truly "freaked out" he is regarding Amara....I think this will have Sam eventually question why and Dean will fess up to him about what Amara said about them being bonded.....I just hope it happens sooner than later because this is information that Sam needs to know.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-11-05 13:07
Hmm not a bad episode. For the first 10 or so minutes I was worried it'd be a boring filler episode. Shock, the Darkness was involved again! Honestly this season seems promising.

1. Okay, so where is Crowley? Did Amara prison break? Yup. I bet next episode is why he grounds her :P

2. What is the soul? What is soullessness? Yes, Philosophy class 101 tonight. No emotional barrier to stop evil thoughts. There is no doubt to hold them back such as "Will this work? Will I be found out? Should I be doing this?" They simply don't care, or rather cannot care. They act on impulse.

3. What do you think Dean is feeling now? Does he feel the peace that the girl did and if so, what could that lead to? I don't think he is. He doesn't carry the mark or have his soul missing.

4. Why is Amara obsessed with Dean? Is it the Mark of Cain? Maybe he's been the most fascinating bearer so far

5. So Sam has a serial killer thing. Discuss. Well at least its not demon blood. I'm kidding, please bring it back D:

6. Wasn’t the actor who played Len so fantastic? Yup :)

7. Congratulations to Nancy Won on a wonderfully entertaining first episode! Welcome to the SPNFamily! Indeed! Good writing. A pity she couldn't be a replacement for that duo *Sigh*
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-05 19:03
You're description of a soulless person kinda fits Amara, who is (probably?) soulless herself. Maybe that's why she's doing all this soul sucking?

I think the younger Amaras are playing it the way show wants them to come across. Not evil, not good. Just flat. But she's learning as she goes along and consumes more souls so perhaps we will see more "more" later on. Maybe this next episode.

I'm thinking that this version of Amara is learning both the good and the bad which will become a problem for future?/project ed adult Amara who isn't experiencing it hands on. The soul consumption may be a way for her to become "one" if you will with God's creation and once she's "eaten" enough she will be at the maturity point where she becomes adult Amara. At that point I'm wondering if she will take Dean's soul so that they can become a solid force, joined together but not in a sexual way. Like Dark Charlie and Good Charlie blended together to be "whole". Does that make sense? That's one of my takes on this anyway. Who knows where they are going with any of these plot lines? And I'm liking the not knowing!
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-05 21:37
Quote:
I think the younger Amaras are playing it the way show wants them to come across. Not evil, not good. Just flat.
I agree; my conclusion too.
Quote:
I'm thinking that this version of Amara is learning both the good and the bad which will become a problem for future?/projected adult Amara
That would be interesting.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-05 20:00
Quote:
. Congratulations to Nancy Won on a wonderfully entertaining first episode! Welcome to the SPNFamily! Indeed! Good writing. A pity she couldn't be a replacement for that duo *Sigh*
Well.... she IS a replacement for Adam Glass and IMO he was almost as bad as the nep duo. So far she's proven to be a great addition!
danashulps
# danashulps 2015-11-05 17:43
As to #5 maybe Sam is interested in serial killers because he and Dean are the Dexters of the supernatural world. He has killed innocents, remember the woman in "The man who knew too much"?
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-05 21:58
Sam did kill the waitress, but he was soulless when he did it. I am pretty sure that his interest in serial killers had nothing to do with it, especially at that time when he couldn't be bothered by much of anything, especially any similarity his actions might have had to serial killers.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-11-05 18:08
He was interested back in No Exit, before he'd killed any innocents. Some people find serial killers interesting. Sam may find comfort in the idea that every single evil does not come from the supernatural. Or he may think, that like H.H. Holmes, they may attract become/leave ghosts and knowing everything they can about it may come in handy. Maybe he just is interested in the psychology.
Jen
# Jen 2015-11-05 22:08
Reading through your replies and I too have noticed Dean is off maybe PMT LOL He has his soul definatly or as was said his a damn fine actor. (better than we even thought)

The line toward the end of the ep. regarding Glen Dean said to Sam == Oh Yeah Knew Rule we don't kill anymore !!! It seemed rather flippant and honestly when Glen asked Dean to shoot him HONESTLY I thought Dean was going too OTher than the MOC (Lock &Key) I think Dean's darkness which started way back in S4 with his trip to hell also my attract Amara which would totally freak Dean out
Roll on next wk we may get some more clarity
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2015-11-05 23:13
Really enjoyed this eppy. Nancy is a great addition and I look forward to her next ep.

Amara told Dean he would always protect her. She said they were bonded. What if the connection between them comes from the fact that he bore the mark and now she does. In that respect they are bonded together....lik e sam and the other psychic children. There was a connection to them. I'm not saying it's the same, I just think it could be a similar kind of thing. Perhaps she would've been connected to Cain if it were him that release her. The Darkness is connected to the mark isn't it....it corrupted the mark all those years ago. So what if, as much as Dean wants to kill Amara, what if he's unable to...the connection to her prevents him from hurting her....which would be why she's so fascinated with him...he in essence could be her protector even if it's against Dean's will.

So that being the case, knowing Sam has to stop the darkness, it's what's driving him right now because he feels responsible for it's release, will Dean try to stop Sam? Will Dean protect Amara much like the way Sam protected Ruby when Dean tried to kill her? if Sam represents the light....and amara the darkness....whe re does Dean fall?

What if Death isn't dead...what if it was a test? Death tries to get Dean to kill his brother but in the end, Dean chooses family, he chooses Sam. Perhaps this is exactly what God wanted...what he knew would happen....if this was a test for Dean, which he passed, then perhaps it's foreshadowing of what's to come. Maybe once again, Dean's love for his family, for Sam will be what enables dean to break that connection with the darkness....

given i'm the whole everything happens for a reason on this show...and I tend to analyze and look at the big picture...

perhaps God knew from the moment Lucifer gave the mark to Cain that one day the darkness would be released....hen ce Sam and Dean having to be born....and that everything they've been through, good and bad happened for a reason....it all led them down the path to inevitably battle the darkness....tha t as horrible as it was for the boys, maybe dean needed to become a monster so he can beat it....he had to conquer his own darkness in order to be able to conquer THE DARKNESS....


just a thought. ;);)
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-06 08:04
Sugarhi15, I would love the story- line to go in the way you are pointing. Really like your take on things. It is possible. I agree the conflict for Dean is that he is connected to darkness and feels the protective bond. You raise good questions that I hope are raised and answered.
Quote:
Will Dean protect Amara much like the way Sam protected Ruby when Dean tried to kill her? if Sam represents the light....and Amara the darkness....where does Dean fall?
What if Death isn't dead...what if it was a test? Death tries to get Dean to kill his brother but in the end, Dean chooses family, he chooses Sam and passes. Perhaps this is exactly what God wanted.......Dean's love for his family, for Sam will be what enables Dean to break that connection with the darkness....
Maybe Dean needed to become a monster so he can beat it....he had to conquer his own darkness in order to be able to conquer THE DARKNESS....
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-07 10:35
I think it would be even more interesting if Dean is aware of this conflict.... meaning he knows he's protecting Amara and doesn't even want to but can't help himself...that would be REALLY interesting I think.
Russ
# Russ 2015-11-06 00:11
Episode started well.

Ghostfacers reference in the first 20 seconds? Totally rad. I was all :).

The second we get to the brothers, things start to unravel, and I was all :(

Last ep Dean mentioned he "had serious cabin fever" and when Sam mentioned he may have found a case, but it was thin, he said "thin works, tell me on the way". Dean was eager to get out and hunt something, even though the only evidence they had was one dead body mauled in the woods.

However this episode, even though Sam found 2 dead bodies, killed in the home of a famous (acquitted) killer over a century ago, and killed in the same manner, Dean's all of a sudden dismissive and completely uninterested?

Maybe the Welcome Package for new writers to the show includes a "How to keep the inconsistencies consistent!" pamphlet.

Once they got to the Bourden house it picked up. Brothers worked well together. Evenly written. Felt like an old episode.

The music playing whilst Sam was scanning with the EMF detector was about as atmospheric as a fart in a bathtub. I really wish they would stop with the score. It adds nothing to the show and reeks of Scooby-Doo cornyness.

3rd victim dies, introduce bad actor #1 for this episode - Detective Madson (sp?). They really need to start casting after viewing reels, not head-shots, age and pay-scale. Actually, this character was useless. Didn't need to be included in the narrative.

Then we're introduced to Len (Lin?). Loved this dude. He was great. Well written, and a fantastic performance.

Amara shows up. See above comment re: casting practices. ;) She's not bad, just bland when she's trying to be dark and mysterious.

Having said that, this is where the episode started getting interesting. Newbie Nancy did a nice job of blending the two story-lines into one. Didn't feel contrived. Well paced. It really worked. Save for Sidnee's monologue. That needed to be interrupted by something. Maybe some Dean smart-arsedness :o

The Amara at the bar where she met Sidnee was an interesting Amara. I liker her here. It seemed like she connected with Sidnee, and initially wanted to help, making her feel like Ecstasy-orgasm- chocolate cake! That was interesting. She doesn't just turn people into soulless psycho killers (Jenna from Form & Void). She can make them feel good. I didn't seem like she initially intended to take her soul. Just don't call her an Angel! "Do I look like a whiny winged suck-up?!" That was great. Great change of expression and a line well delivered.

The monologue. Please stop. The I pray to her. She can her me. I feel it. line was a little too Season 6 Eve.

Now we get to the dumbest part of the episode. Sam gets out of the ropes, and ... while Sidnee hits Dean with the butt of the firearm, and doesn't immediately notice Sam is free, he ... moves in the opposite direction, to get a tool of some sort of a work bench? OK, so he grabbed a makeshift weapon. Cool. He obviously intended to hit her in some way, and had no problem doing so. However, he's about 6'14", skilled, and has taken down some fairly heavy hitters in his time. I'm pretty sure, once free from the rope, he could have got straight up and knocked her on her arse before she knew what hit her. Bad Newbie Nancy.


Save for the initial scene in the bunker, I really enjoyed the brothers together. Had a season 1-3 back & forth. Knowing something's big and dangerous around the corner, but just dealing with what's in font of them. No conflict, no secret agenda. I've missed that.

Still disappointed with the cookie-cutter formula this show is now presented in, but as far as MOTW episodes go, this was one of the better in recent years.

It was no ground-breaker, but it was simple, to the point, and moved the story along.


A solid B-.
JT
# JT 2015-11-07 00:18
Great questions! I'll speculate about #2. Basically, the writers seem to define the human soul in the usual way, as the immaterial or spiritual part of a person that survives after death. So, without a soul or spirit, an individual would be nothing except a physical body housing a brain. He or she would be driven by "animal" instincts to satisfy basic desires and survive at all costs. Soulless Sam was essentially an animal (or what we unfairly think of as an animal). He hunted, killed, mated according to the urgings of his brain. He acted without internal inhibitions, conscience, or compassion. The cop in 11.1 who gleefully killed her grandmother and the soulless teenaged girl in "Tin Lizzie" were much the same as Soulless Sam, except for one crucial difference. The females acted alone. Soulless Sam ran with a pack, a pack of humans, as it happened. The pack and, particularly, the alpha male (Sam's grandfather) enforced certain restraints upon Sam's behavior. As dominant older sibling, Dean was able to assume a similar role--that is, until Soulless Sam felt under threat and he turned on Bobby and Dean like a wild wolf fighting for its survival. Anyway, SN seems to have been pretty consistent in its treatment of soulless humans. Len's something of a mystery, but maybe we'll find out he managed to resist Amara enough to retain a small sliver of his soul.

I'm curious as to why Amara feeds on souls. My only guess is that she wants them for the same reason Castiel did--to amass enough power to take the place of SN's God.