The Darkness. The next unimaginably bad, impossible-to-defeat enemy unleashed by the Winchesters. When The Darkness billowed over the remote landscape, was I the only one who was reminded of the demon-filled black smoke that escaped Hell in “All Hell Breaks Loose 2”?  

I can’t wrap my head around battling something that encapsulated, or even defined, the universe before time began. God and the archangels beat it back and began the history of man on Earth. This is the “monster” that the Winchesters now have to face? While this is bad for the brothers, it might be just what fans have been waiting for. An apocalypse-sized problem that Sam and Dean have to face together. Neither brother is dying, possessed, keeping secrets, on the run, missing, going dark or facing a death sentence with the clock ticking. On bended knee, with my eyes to the sky, I pray that Dean doesn’t blame Sam for pursuing the cure and unleashing the worst evil ever seen by man.  Please let them be past the blaming, resentment, anger and other destructive (and very tiresome) attitudes and behavior that kept them from being a team. They have come full circle. Like Sam before him, Dean has been possessed by a supernatural force with banishment for eternity as his only escape. Despite his vow that he wouldn't do the same thing as Dean, Sam made the decision to save Dean regardless of Dean’s express wishes that he not do so. Sam also accepted a supernatural solution to a supernatural problem before he knew the risks, just as Dean had done when he accepted the Mark. The role reversal that took so long to fulfill has finally allowed each man to walk in the other man’s proverbial shoes. 

So how did all this happen? How did the brothers become a team again at the expense of the rest of the world? Until the very last episode, you and I tried to track plot threads in order to better understand and predict the outcome of the season. Overall, I would say we did a really good job this year! Let’s look at what we got right, where we went wrong, and what clues we have already been given about season 11.

Mark of Cain

In my TV Fanatic Round Table commentary for “The Prisoner”, I predicted that Dean would get rid of the Mark of Cain in the season 10 finale. I was so relieved when I “guessed” right! He is cured. Hooray and Hallelujah! Although Threads commenters were mixed in their opinions as to whether Dean would be cured in season 10, I don’t think anyone is disappointed that we can now move on to a new myth arc. I think most fans welcomed the resolution of the Mark’s storyline. Did any of us foresee how it would happen, though, or what the cost of the cure would be?  

03

The Mark’s Cain and Abel Legacy, and Reversal – One of the Threads theories was that the Mark’s ultimate goal was to force, or trick, Dean into killing Sam in a repeat of Cain and Abel’s history. That theory was strengthened when Cain told Dean “My story began when I killed my brother, and that's where your story inevitably will end.” (“The Executioner’s Song”). This vision of the story’s path very nearly came true. The Mark seems to have been able to convince its hosts of its will without them realizing that they were being manipulated. When talking to Dean, Cain defended genocide saying that he felt he was finally thinking clearly, that he felt more sane than ever before.  The Mark convinced him that what he was doing was just and moral. Similarly, it created a mindset and a set of circumstances where it made sense to Dean that Sam must die. When MarkedDean confronted Sam in the abandoned restaurant, Dean said,

I know what I am Sam, but who are you …to remove the Mark no matter what the consequences? Sam, how is that not evil?”

Dean was convinced that Sam was evil. Unlikely as it seems, MarkedDean believed that killing Sam was ridding the world of evil, much the same as Cain believed that killing his entire bloodline was a service to humanity. In a stunning reversal of the core belief that drove Dean to save Sam in “Sacrifice”, MarkedDean now said:

… and I was wrong. You were right. Sam, you knew that this world would be better without us in it.

Dean’s own reference to that moment in the church highlighted how dramatically the Mark was overriding Dean’s own instincts and values.

At first, I was confused as to whether Dean’s bitter words to Sam were his own opinion or the Mark’s bidding. Dean told Sam that killing Rudy “sure felt like me”, making me think that Dean had actually gotten that jaded. In fact that line diminished the scene for me because I was distracted trying to understand why Dean was being so cruel and judgmental, and if he really felt that defeated and could be that hard on Sam. After watching the scene several times, though, I realized that line was meant as an indication of how completely Dean was losing his battle to the Mark. Just as Cain professed his sanity, this was Dean’s declaration of sane thinking. Cain didn’t understand that he had lost his will, neither did Dean comprehend the extent to which his soul was being overridden. If it hadn’t been for Sam’s unshakeable faith in Dean, the Mark would have won and fratricide would have again have been its reward. So those who felt that CainDean killing AbelSam would be the ultimate climax of the Mark’s storyline were very nearly right (say 99%). Dean only turned away at the last moment, because of his love of family.

BK 10

What of Dean’s last second “decision” to spare Sam’s life? Several of us theorized that the brothers’ love would break the curse.  The romantic notion that the Mark would disappear and the curse would forever be broken when Dean refused to kill Sam because of the brother’s bond has to be judged as only half right. Yes, Sam’s love and faith in Dean drove Sam to show Dean the way out, the path home,

One day when you find your way back, let these be your guide. They can help you remember what it was to be good. What is was to love.

…and Dean’s love of Sam stopped his execution. Reminiscent of “Swan Song” when family memories freed Sam’s will, love also freed Dean’s heart and mind from the strangle hold of his possessor. Both brothers’ love for their family gave them the strength of will to find themselves again, just long enough to stop their murderous acts of beating each other to death. In “Swan Song”, Sam’s supernatural possessor compelled him to try to kill his brother, pushing LuciferSam to brutally beat Dean to the point of death. In a reversal of roles, Dean mercilessly beating Sam convinced Sam that his death was the price that had to be paid to stop Dean. Dean would have gone through with the execution if, at the crucial last second, he hadn’t reconnected with his core being. Their deepest value of love for family allowed them both to regain control. In another reversal of “SwanSong”, Dean was willing to die alongside his brother, moments before Sam would have been banished to face an eternity of torment alone. In “Brother’s Keeper”, Sam made the same choice, willingly offering his life before Dean was exiled to the ether, alone, for all eternity.

Sacrifice (Suicide) – Given the distinct recurrence of suicides in the latter half of the season, a corollary to the “brother’s bond will cure Dean” theory was that Dean would sacrifice himself to save Sam from the Mark’s sentence of death. Dean even said in a recent episode that he would end his own life if he absolutely had to. Actually, Dean attempted a sacrificial death. He asked Death to kill him because he saw that as “the only move left”.

s10e23 297

In the end, though, Dean did sacrifice himself in a way. In choosing not to kill Sam, Dean sacrificed his last known solution to save himself in order to save his brother. Dean’s actions were entirely consistent with the suicide thread we had been tracking. The past few seasons had emphasized the lengths to which Dean would go to save Sam. The entire Gadreel decision, classifying Dean’s repeated heroics as “pulling a Dean Winchester” in “About A Boy”, Sam saying that Dean saving him had “become his thing” in “The Prisoner”, and so many other examples testified to the fact that Dean would do anything to save Sam. Those clues were important, as it turned out. At the last moment, Dean’s instinct to save Sam helped Dean swing high even though MarkedDean truly was intent on killing Sam.

s10e23 502

Our alternate theory was that Sam was going to sacrifice himself for his brother. Sam’s actions in “The Werther Project” forecasted Sam’s imminent demise, saved at the last moment by Dean’s intervention.  Since Sam ultimately did choose to sacrifice himself to stop his brother, I think we can credit our “suicide” or sacrificial thread as 90% correct. Both boys were willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of the other. The 10% error accounts for the fact that no one actually died! As an aside, I was so convinced and emotionally expecting that one of the brothers was going to die that I was actually disappointed in the anti-climactic moment when neither of them died!

So the brother’s bond defeated the curse’s will, but it was not a literal cure, and both brothers offered to sacrifice themselves but even if Death’s solution had been carried out, the Mark would have remained on Dean. How, then, was the Mark cured?

Sam saved Dean.

s10e23 38

Sam adamantly rejected any solution or path that ended in Dean’s death and resolutely told Castiel, “We are going to save Dean”. Sam’s determination and steadfast resolve to obtain the cure from the Book of the Damned is what actually removed the Mark from Dean’s arm.

s10e23 495

Would Dean’s solution have worked if Sam had not pursued the spell? Either Dean or Death would have executed Sam, and Dean would have been whisked away still bearing the Mark. At least in the short term the world would be better off, but Sam would have perished and Dean would still bear the Mark AND be fated to an eternal nightmare. Not a great scenario for either of them and Sam would have failed in his quest to “save his brother”.

Death: Even if I remove Dean from the playing field, we are still left with you – loyal, dogged Sam who I suspect will never rest until he sets his brother free; will never rest until his brother is free of the Mark, which simply cannot happen lest the darkness be set free.

So in the end, Sam’s plan was the only way that Dean could be permanently cured. Sam’s team of experts deciphered and cast the spell that removed the Mark and stopped MarkedDean without killing him. The consequences were devastating (according to Death), so there is a significant question as to whether Sam should have pursued a cure before he knew the risks. The issue of whether his actions were morally justified is explored in detail in a separate discussion.  Aside from whether this was the best solution overall, it was still the only solution that accomplished what Sam set out to do, which was above all else, save Dean.

BK 7

There are two dangling threads that need to be pulled. First is the question of whether Death is actually dead. I found it oddly convenient that the Mark wanted the loving brother, Sam, dead and that was the exact condition that was placed on Dean by Death. One of the previews contained a line where Death offered his solution and said “on one condition”. That line was mysteriously edited out of the final version of the episode, yet the fact that Sam’s death was required for Death’s deal was still obvious (“Kill him or I will”). Was the Mark creating an illusion in Dean’s mind? Illusions were the subject of the entire “Werther Project” episode. Sam also saw Death but multiple people seeing an apparition is possible. Yes, Death was irked about “that one time” that Sam “stood him up” so was Death just trying to collect on an IOU? Possibly. It just seemed a bit contrived and too convenient that Dean was asked to kill Sam. Maybe Death was never in the room or was there for only part of the time because he had been “burned by you Winchesters before”?  Entirely possible. Either way, Death’s status is a thread that I’m sure will continue into season 11.

The second detail that bothered me was the surprised look on Dean’s face when he swung the scythe and struck down Death. Didn’t Dean know he was going to do that? Was that the first time the real Dean had control of his mind and body? Had all his prior thoughts and actions been so dictated by the Mark’s influence that that moment was the first time Dean emerged as himself? I’m curious if that will be explained further in season 11.

Witchcraft, Monsters and Family

12

The witchcraft thread that was prevalent throughout so much of season 10 is obviously going to be a significant myth arc in Season 11. Rowena was more than a passing plot device. The introduction of Crowley’s mother being a witch back in 8.22 “Clip Show” when Crowley said, “Son of a witch, actually. My mommy taught me a few tricks.” was clearly the beginning of a patiently developed multi-year witchcraft arc.

18

Crowley: All my long life I wondered what I did to deserve a mother who refused to show love. I pained over it. I built my bloody kingdom on top of it.

Beyond supplying a suitably formidable witch to lead the witchcraft threat, the Rowena/Crowley plot line also served another purpose, eloquently summarized by Crowley’s comment. Their history explained the destruction of Crowley’s humanity and brought to a climax the exploration of the "monsters and their families" theme. The lesson seems to be that the King of Hell, symbolically the greatest monster of all, and his kingdom, were created because of being denied a family’s love. Love saved the Winchesters from becoming monsters, and lack of love doomed Fergus MacLeod to becoming the leader of the demonic world.

s10e23 243

The scene when Castiel recruited Crowley was brilliant, by the way. Their expressions, voice inflections and friendly banter all perfectly reflected the history and familiar relationship between these two frenemies (reminded me a bit of Professor Xavier and his old friend, Eric “Magneto”). “You’re not in my contacts list” and “I’m in” were such great lines!

Looking ahead to season 11, I would think that the King of Hell wouldn’t mind that an ancient evil has been unleashed. Wouldn’t he want it to wreak havoc on the world? I suspect, though, that the Darkness will threaten Crowley’s reign. No one wants to be upstaged by a bigger, badder bully. Will he get on board once again to fight a common enemy? Will he want to restore the age of “monsters” versus bowing down to “a greater evil than any of us has ever known”?

The NEW Family Business

Saving People, Hunting Things. The Family Business.

That motto has been the center of the brothers’ lives since they were children - their raison d’etre - and for ten years it has been the core of the show.

Until now.

“Brother’s Keeper” spent a great deal of time exploring the concepts of good and evil.  The “Good Vs. Evil” theme was introduced early in the episode, when Dean woke up in the motel room, hung over, exhausted and out of options.

s10e23 53 Dean

He took a few swigs from a beer bottle then told himself,

Dean: I’m good. I’m good.

The phrase “I’m good” is very common slang right now for just about everything from “I’m OK” to “I don’t need anything”. Given the significant exploration of good versus evil that occurred in the episode’s climax, though, Dean’s words at this point in the dialog clearly had a double meaning. Dean was trying to convince himself that he wasn’t completely without hope but this was the point that he knew he had lost. It was a crucial moment leading to Dean’s decision to throw in the towel, or “tip over his King” as Death termed it.

06

The emphasis on Good and Evil continued. Look at how many times those words were used in the climax:

Death: Your brother cannot be killed and the Mark cannot be destroyed. Not without inciting far greater evil than any of us have ever known.

Sam: What evil?....

Death: It’s for the greater good. Once you consider that, this makes all the sense in the world.

Dean: Remember when we were in that church, making Crowley human? About to close the gates of Hell? Well you sure as hell were ready to die for the greater good then.

Sam: Yeah, and Dean you pulled me back.

Dean: and I was wrong. You were right. Sam You knew that this world would be better without us in it.

Sam: No, no wait a second. You’re twisting my words here Dean.

Dean: Why? Because we track evil and kill it? The Family Business? Is that it? Look at the tape, Sam. Evil tracks us and it nukes everything in the vicinity – our family, our friends. It’s time we put a proper name to what we really are and we deal with it.

Sam: Wait a second. We are not evil. Listen, we are far from perfect. We are good. That thing on your arm is evil, but not you. Not me.

Dean: I let Rudy die. How is that not evil? I know what I am Sam, but who are you …to remove the Mark no matter what the consequences? Sam, How is that not evil?

Sam….That’s not evil, Dean. That is not an evil man. That is a good man crying to be heard. ..

Sam throws a punch…

Dean: Good. Good. Fight.

Sam: ...You will never ever hear me say that you, the real you, is anything but good.

Sam: Take these. One day when you find your way back, let these be your guide. They can help you remember what it was to be good. What is was to love.

Dean: Forgive me.

s10e23 571

Then, when Dean and Sam exit the restaurant –

Sam: this is good, Dean. This is good. The Mark is off your arm, nothing crazy happened, you get your baby back.

This emphasis on good and evil was not incidental. One of the objectives of a season finale is to set up the plot line for the next season. Introducing “The Darkness” was the obvious hook into season 11, but more subtly I perceived a much more significant shift in the show’s direction going forward. I was about knocked off of my couch when I heard it in the dialog:

Dean: Why? Because we track evil and kill it? The Family Business? Is that it? Look at the tape, Sam. Evil tracks us and it nukes everything in the vicinity – our family, our friends. It’s time we put a proper name to what we really are and we deal with it.

Until now, the family business has been tracking and killing monsters. The monster theme has been obviously and consistently explored all through season 10. We’ve tracked threads related to whether monsters could be good, how monsters were affected by their families, whether families could preserve humanity within monsters and what it meant to be human versus a monster. As recently as last week, Sam and Crowley debated if monsters could be “good”:

Crowley: that’s what I get for trying to be the good guy.

Sam: So you’re the good guy?... at the end of it, you are a monster, just like all the rest of them, and I’m going to watch you die, screaming, just like all the rest of them.

Crowley: You’re right. I am a monster, and I’ve done bad. I’ve done things you can’t even imagine. Horrible, evil, messy things, and I’ve loved every damn minute. So thank you Sam for reminding me who I really am.

[highlighted words refer to other recurring threads we tracked this season]

s10e23 456

So before Dean and Sam debated whether they were evil, Sam and Crowley’s discussion explored self-identity and good versus evil as a presage of the pivotal, climactic confrontation in the abandoned restaurant.

The entire philosophical debate between Sam and Dean about whether they were good or evil and about what defines good or evil was the preamble to what I believe will be the focus of season 11 at least, if not the show’s entire future. With Dean’s words, Jeremy Carver very clearly and distinctly announced that the new family business is going to be tracking down evil.  He quite literally through Dean’s dialog said “it’s about time we put a proper name to what we really are and deal with it”! He even invited fans to “look at the tape”!. Repeatedly Sam and Dean (and Bobby in “Inside Man”) have reminisced about the “good old days” when all they had to worry about were vampires and werewolves. Their battles have gotten to be much larger than that, though. They now play on a universal stage, engaging Heaven and Hell. They have received personal attention from God, Death and Lucifer. They have killed archangels and Knights of Hell. They have toyed with the “great levers of the universe” and the Four Horsemen. Now they have unleashed “a horribly destructive amoral force that was beaten back by God and his archangels”. The boy’s mission was just redefined and expanded. The show’s focus followed a natural evolution to acknowledging that monsters were not the only bad thing that these apocalyptic hunters had fought, or should fight, in the future. They are now Saving People and Hunting Evil. That is now the Family Business.

When I look back, this larger scale really was their mission all along. Way back in season 5, Chuck (i.e. God) summed up their mission with these words:

So, what's it all add up to? It's hard to say. But me, I'd say this was a test... for Sam and Dean. And I think they did all right. Up against good, evil, angels, devils, destiny, and God himself, they made their own choice. They chose family. And, well... isn't that kinda the whole point?

If I’m right, Jeremy saw the same theme and decided to address it directly. The boys have always fought evil, so let’s give that evil a form and see how they do confronting it head on. If the writing team does justice to the largest threat ever faced by the world, this new fight, the brothers’ new mission, and the expanded scope of the show should be epic.

s10e23 592 In the Car

Get in the car and buckle up. It’s going to be a wild ride.

So…

I think we all did really well tracking clues this season! I believe the writing team masterfully wove threads throughout the past few seasons that all led to his turning point in the myth arc, and the show, and it has been fun trying to find and decipher them. Only time will tell if my new theories are right. I’d love to hear what you think of them, though! How did your personal theories fare in light of the show’s climax? You each had individual stories you hoped to see, so how close did you come to the final truth? We have all hiatus to look back at the clues from the past and to speculate on the future, so let’s get started!

Comments  

AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-29 23:14
Interesting read, thanks! What I'm curious about, tho it may be nothing, is the number of black columns that came out of the ground. Looking at your picture, I'm counting 12. Why 12? If there is a "smokey leader" that would make 13. As in Biblical. 12 Apostles, add Jesus and you have a bakers dozen. And witches covens traditionally number 13. If there isnt a leader it still brings the number back down to 12. Significant or did the special effects guys just think it was symmetrical and looked pretty and doesn't mean squat? Thoughts?
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-05-31 15:19
Numerology is usually significant, so your theory is very interesting. I'm wondering if Rowena makes the 13th. I think there's half a chance that she will somehow be tied to the Darkness since "something she loved" had to be sacrificed to set it free. She is a part of the spell. I could foresee how trapping her would recapture the Darkness, but I'm probably thinking too small.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-05-30 00:20
Thank you Nightsky that was an awesome read. I am still trying to process the finale. It was a more complicated story than it seemed at first. I will have to say I couldn't see where this was heading. The foreshadowing was certainly for one brother to kill the other (you have no idea how relieved I was that didn't happen) but it was hard to see how that was going to be resolved or dramatized since we know that brother death isn't going to be permanent. I loved that neither brother died and that Sam got through to Dean in the end. And yes Sam saved Dean. I also really loved the parallels to Swan Song. Sugarhi predicted the amulet would be the emotional connection but the photos that were used in the season premiere was what got through to Dean. Sam in Dean's room remembering that his brother was a good man who had loved him and he never forgot that all season as he tried to save his brother. Dean after he was cured sat in his room looking at those same photos hoping that Sam would forgive him for almost killing him then. I can't remember if we saw those photos at any other time during the season. But I did love the continuity.
I don't believe that Death is dead. He just didn't seem all that surprised that Dean skewered him. Dean looked surprised though as did Sam. I wasn't sure if Dean thought "Holy Crap what did I just do?" or "Uh oh I hope Death doesn't smite us both right now" when he used the scythe on Death. I also got the feeling that Death was testing Dean. Why else ask Dean to kill Sam? And to threaten to kill Sam if Dean didn't do it? I can only guess it was to force Dean to choose his humanity, his brother over becoming a monster for all eternity.
A big yes to the brothers united fighting against the biggest foe, the biggest evil the world has ever known. I am supposing that the demon tablet might be helpful. I wonder if Rowena knew that curing the Mark was going to unleash the Darkness. I can't see Crowley being on board with an evil more powerful than him (unless he also knew this was going to happen. Crowley did say he had the Winchester's right where he wanted them). Right now Crowley and Cas need to get out of the predicament they are in. So many twisty turns ahead. I am looking forward to see what Carver comes up with in the season premiere.
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-05-31 15:32
You are welcome! I appreciate that people read it!

Quote:
Dean after he was cured sat in his room looking at those same photos hoping that Sam would forgive him for almost killing him then. But I did love the continuity.
I had forgotten that moment. I will watch for it in #WFBRewatch.

Quote:
I also got the feeling that Death was testing Dean. Why else ask Dean to kill Sam?
I too thought this was very odd, at least it stood out to me. I don't think we've heard the last of it.

Quote:
I wonder if Rowena knew that curing the Mark was going to unleash the Darkness. I can't see Crowley being on board with an evil more powerful than him (unless he also knew this was going to happen. Crowley did say he had the Winchester's right where he wanted them).
I don't think she knew about the Darkness. She is an amateur that thinks big.
===>>>A Witchcraft theory I just thought of, (shoot! I wish I put this in the article!!) is that Crowley will restore the hamster witch, who WAS Grand Coven, to human form. The actress is a known, experienced genre presence and I could see her being useful because she'd want to exact revenge on Rowena. Hamster witch (I'm too lazy to look up her name) could probably also decipher the codex and the BOTD, and she knew older witchcraft. That would continue the witchcraft arc and be helpful for The Darkness. The Mark was, after all, just a curse!
Crowley's motives are a complete unknown to me. I know he is a master schemer so I cannot rule out that he planned the whole thing. That would be a huge reveal sometime in the distant future.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-06-21 18:02
I came across this post on the IMDB message board (I lurk there sometimes) it concerns the theme of family throughout the season. The photos were a big part of that theme. Anyway I thought it was interesting....

The Winchester Family has been a thread since "Black" as far as I'm concerned. It's what both Sam and Dean used to help Dean hold on to his humanity.
In ''Black'' Dean sees himself slipping into something he doesn't like. He was the saddest, mopiest, most depressed demon ever, and he goes and clings to a young version of Mary and tries to run away from what he is and his association with Crowley with her.
In ''Reichenbach'' , a conflicted Dean, torn between his humanity and his demon-hood plays ''Hey Jude'' on the piano, slices his hand and resigns himself to choosing his demon side because he can't get away from the physical manifestation that he's no longer human.
In ''Soul Survivor'', Sam brings up John to try to activate the Winchester loyalty he's instilled in Dean. He also says ''this family is all we ever had''. Dean again brings up Mary and reveals his pain that she was violently taken from him. After Dean starts to break Sam's spirit, Sam flees the dungeon and goes to look at family pictures for strength. When Dean gets semi-cured, he also looks at family pictures.
It's only fitting that the family pics make an appearance in ''Brothers Keeper''. While Sam knows he has few arguments to soften Dean up, he also knows how powerful the mark is and he takes extra weapons. Weapons that symbolize purity and the origins of Dean, and also Sam, who Mark of Cain influenced Dean now sees as a corrupted being he has to eliminate.
Looking at the source of their life, Mary, and seeing the kids who were born out of goodness to do good things, Dean can look past his present ''diseased'' self and past present Sam who the Mark now tells him deserves to die for whatever reason (doesn't matter the reason, the Mark just wants Dean to look at Sam as something he must kill) Dean can free his mind from the grip of the curse and see things clearly. Like it or not, Charlie was right when she said Dean had something Cain didn't. "You're a Winchester''. Sam also talked about a powerful force that had to come from Dean.
When Dean faltered, Sam brought the rest of the family.

From VirileManefistationoftheDivine

Does he want a divorce?- Dean
I wanted you back- Sam

Anyway I thought it was an interesting comment.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-05-30 06:28
Theory time!

The dimension around the Darkness's prison warped into what we know as Hell. All souls sent there gradually become weaker through torture allowing more of the Darkness into their souls, hence why demons are basically black smoke. Demons are basically an extension of the Darkness.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-30 19:44
Interesting tie in with the dark smoke!
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-05-31 15:34
VERY good theory! I like it a lot!
Tealka
# Tealka 2015-05-30 11:48
Thanks for the terrific article, including the great summary of what happened and didn't this season. As you so well put it, what's ahead is "an apocalyse-sized problem that Sam and Dean have to face together." I'm guessing the Darkness represents chaos. An amoral force at odds with God and all He created, presumably it seeks to swallow up all that exists into an infinite black hole, an endless void--a anti-cosmos of Nothing. So, like the MOC to which it's linked, it may hunger to kill simply for the sake of killing. And, as in the case of Lucifer, perhaps it'll turn even angels into enemies of God and mankind.

The Darkness promises to be the biggest and, perhaps, the best Big Bad of them all. But to fight on behalf of the Darkness, SN's going to have to forget the comic vice approach and bring on a deadly serious, extremely formidable Darth Vader type villain--played by an actor who knows how to put a scare into people. Otherwise, this myth arc will fail. (I think someone like the actor who played the head vampire in "Family Matters" would be a wonderful choice.)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-30 20:04
Why would an amoral force care one way or the other about killing? Or for that matter why would it lean evil? Its amoral, not immoral. I mean if you want to say its like Ultron from the newest Avenger movie that I just saw with the kid, I guess you could say he was amoral? He thought what he was doing was right, he didn't see it as wrong, he didnt understand that part of the equation. So this big black amoral nothing just wants to reclaim everything back into the big black amoral nothing. I wonder how God and the Archangels fought back a big black amoral nothing? Oh yeah, I know... it will probably be a bunch of corporate men all running around in business suits just like the angels, Leviathans and some demons only the difference will be The Darknesseses will all be wearing nametags -" Hi! I'm ___ !" so that we can tell the difference! At least make them all black like oil! Or soldiers, all black from head to toe... Or like the Leviathan when they hit the ground in purgatory... No. sadly it will probably be nametags...
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-05-31 15:42
You are so welcome. I am so happy that you liked it.

Quote:
I'm guessing the Darkness represents chaos. An amoral force at odds with God and all He created, presumably it seeks to swallow up all that exists into an infinite black hole, an endless void--a anti-cosmos of Nothing.
This sounds very reasonable. I could see this being the huge "threat". Your idea sparked another theory... !!

==>>OH, A Castiel theory!! If it took God and the Archangels to fight this thing in the first place, Castiel will need to take a leadership role in Heaven, leading all the angels united in battle against the Darkness! He will be a soldier once again, maybe even get promoted to Archangel if he wins (which of course they will, eventually). But that is how he finds his purpose again!

I absolutely agree that they have to find a suitable VFX for "The Darkness" or a suitable actor (That was my 1 big concern expressed during the TV Fanatic roundtable).
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-05-30 14:13
Hi Nightsky - nice article and congrats on participating in the TV Fanatic Roundtable; has this turned in to a regular thing for you, or just filling in?

Very worried about the show tackling something as conceptual or surreal as "The Darkness", especially since they have trouble focusing and keeping canon straight from week to week.

I share your concern about S11 turning in to a Sam blamestorming session but, since it's one of Carver's "go to" moves, that will probably be the direction they take. We'll get a scene reminiscent to the closing scene of 5.01 Sympathy for the Devil, where Dean tell Sam how much he let him down and that he can never trust him again (Dean's reaction was justifiable in S5, but wouldn't be now).

I agree - something was off with the entire scene with Death; I'm not entirely convinced he was even there to begin with, or whether it was some sort of test for Dean.

I viewed this "The Darkness" story as a last minute addition to create a story for S11 and possibly beyond. Did you see any hints to this earlier in the season? It kind of came out of left field.

Do you think Cain was aware of the true origins of the MoD (Mark of Darkness) he carried? If he did, do you think he would have still agreed to pass the MoD on to Dean in the first place?

Did the MoD play a role in Lucifer creating what hell turned in to? YellowEyedSam made a great comment above, floating a fascinating theory that demons are an extension/offsh oot of The Darkness. Then again, Michael cast Lucifer in to hell, so hell must have already existed.

How does the First Blade play in to this? Since the MoD was the same shape as the First Blade, did it play a role in God creating the MoD in the first place, will it play a role in stopping it, or will this be dropped and forgotten?
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-30 17:11
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Then again, Michael cast Lucifer in to hell, so hell must have already existed.
Yes, but Lucifer first helped God and the archangels defeat TD and only later did he get cast into hell. So maybe YellowEyedSam is right about how hell was created in the first place. Although once again that raises the question of why God would allow Lucifer to transfer the MOC to Cain. God entrusted Lucifer with it because he was God's most trusted. But Lucifer had already been corrupted when he transferred it to Cain, so why would God allow this vitally important key to be in the possession of one of the fallen? We don't need to worry, however, because I'm positive that Carver has a coherent, well-thought-ou t explanation for all of this that will tie together all of the dangling plot threads from the last 2 seasons!;)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-30 20:09
Nah, Carver will just hand that over and put it into the Nep Duos oh so capable hands! Screwing this pooch is right up their alley!!!
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-05-31 15:59
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congrats on participating in the TV Fanatic Roundtable; has this turned in to a regular thing for you, or just filling in?
Thank you! It is a regular thing now, I believe. It is a completely different experience for me. I guess TV Fanatic is kind of a big outlet so this is good.

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I share your concern about S11 turning in to a Sam blamestorming session but, since it's one of Carver's "go to" moves, that will probably be the direction they take.
When Carver first got his 3 year contract, he said he wanted to "mature" the brothers' relationship. Since we've completed the reversal of Swan Song ( and a dozen other arcs), and reached the end of his initial 3 year period, I'm actually thinking that his plan for repositioning their relationship to each other is done. That gives me a great deal of hope that all their adolescent nonsense is over.

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I viewed this "The Darkness" story as a last minute addition to create a story for S11 and possibly beyond. Did you see any hints to this earlier in the season? It kind of came out of left field.
I did not see it coming. I think the "big reveal" from Death was dramatic. I am OK with the surprise...because it makes sense that no one besides those present before time and during the Darkness battle would know the history. Archangels are dead. God is silent. It's logical that it would come from Death.

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Do you think Cain was aware of the true origins of the MoD (Mark of Darkness) he carried? If he did, do you think he would have still agreed to pass the MoD on to Dean in the first place?
I do not think he knew. Even if he did, yes, he would still have passed it on. 1) he was a demon. they don't have a lot of caring feelings for others 2) He would know that it was the only way he could be killed without releasing the darkness. Dean would have been Cain's way out.

[I'm out of time - I'll reply to the other questions later. sorry]
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-05-31 17:15
Didn't Cain tell Dean that the Mark was "a great responsibility, some would call it a great burden"? I wonder then if Cain knew that the Mark wasn't just a lifetime curse but also a key and a lock for the Darkness.
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-06-03 12:26
SamandDean answered your question about the timing of the creation of Hell vs. Lucifer's downfall. I agree. I think the Darkness forming Hell (because of the demon's black smoke) is an excellent theory. I just hope the writers realize that connection!

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How does the First Blade play in to this? Since the MoD was the same shape as the First Blade, did it play a role in God creating the MoD in the first place, will it play a role in stopping it, or will this be dropped and forgotten?
Frankly, I don't think we'll hear about the Blade until they figure out how to trap the Darkness again. If it involves giving someone new the "key", i.e. the MoC, then the Blade might come back into play. After all, Castiel (not Crowley) has the Blade so it could be written as part of the solution. I think it is a fertile creative direction that is possible. I give it less than a 50/50 chance though. They might want to go into an entirely new direction with trapping the Darkness.
E
# E 2015-05-30 14:33
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When The Darkness billowed over the remote landscape, was I the only one who was reminded of the demon-filled black smoke that escaped Hell in “All Hell Breaks Loose 2”?
Not as much as I was reminded of the angels falling in season 8. JC seems to have basically one script idea and he keeps writing it over and over.
E
# E 2015-05-30 16:12
Great job Nightsky.... really good detail. Despite all your great insight I still can't help feeling that the whole THE DARKNESS!!!! theme came out of the blue and was kind of shoe horned into the story at the end. There is very little set up in the past season or two that support it's showing up now, and no allusion to it at all from the Kripke years. I do like Yellowedsam's idea that THE DARKNESS!!!! was part of the creation of hell and that demons are carrying bits of THE DARKNESS!!!! around in them in their black eyes. If so though, I wonder how that smoke become red, yellow, white etc for the various other demons?

I also have fears as to how this all encompassing and at the moment completely abstract THE DARKNESS!!!! will come across on the show. I am not sure TPTB have the creativity to adequately bring it to life in a compelling way or to do it justice and the show itself doesn't really have the budget to keep it abstract and CGI for a whole season. I am worried about how it will manifest itself. As AlyCat says... no more white men in power suits! Been there, done that. I also am worried that conceptually that THE DARKNESS!!!! is so big, so monstrous that it will be impossible to use the episode format that they've been using all along under Carver. The way things are going right now with the show running and writing is that we get one myth arc episode and then a bunch of filler. So, what are Sam and Dean going to do? Battle THE DARKNESS!!!! one week and then put on their fed suits and solve a case the next? That simply won't work with the concept they've introduced this time round, so some big changes in the way that they handle the season seem warranted, but I have serious doubts that anyone in the writers room will be willing to shake things up that much.

Here's what I'd like to see happen. Jensen said he mentioned to the writers that when THE DARKNESS!!!! clears the impala that one of the boys was suddenly gone. Who knows if the writers will actually use it, but the idea intrigued me. What if, when the smoke clears, Sam is gone. Dean then has to get/save/cure Cas and find Sam, and when they do they find that the Darkness has inhabited Sam as punishment or retribution for releasing it in the first place? Maybe the one who let it out is the one who has to carry it? That would be kind of cool and FINALLY give Sam something to do; poor Jared has REALLY paid his dues in the lack of story department so its high time he get some attention. If the first part of the next season isn't largely about him, I'ma gonna be pissed. Then Dean would have to maybe think about his role in what went down and maybe, just maybe might keep everyone from jumping onto the "lets blame Sam" bus that they seem to be Carver's go-to every year (this is the same bus that mows him down as a character each season, just sos ya know). That would be good for the first half of the season, which could then be followed up by the brothers along with Cas and Crowley (who's figured out that THE DARKNESS!!!! as an adversary is a bad thing) have to work together to defeat it. And along the way they kill Rowena... cause you know, she needs to die.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-30 17:01
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What if, when the smoke clears, Sam is gone. Dean then has to get/save/cure Cas and find Sam, and when they do they find that the Darkness has inhabited Sam as punishment or retribution for releasing it in the first place? Maybe the one who let it out is the one who has to carry it?


I love this idea E but the only problem is how/why would TD blame Sam for releasing it? Rowena was the one directly responsible since she cast the spell. Unless TD is some kind of all-knowing force? Maybe it received info via the MOC since the MOC was the doorway to where TD was locked up. Ha, it listened to the brothers conversations through the keyhole! But I do love the idea of Sam having an instrumental role in the year's story arc right from the get go.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-30 20:18
The Darkness will turn out to be...wait for it... Robert Singer.

Hmmm bringing it to life in a compelling way or do it justice... true to all that but what scares me is that they think they did a good job with carrying through "The angels, they're boring!" mytharc. Dont worry, if its interesting and shows promise, Singer will kill it off (The Darkness and the storyline) by the end of the third episode.
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-06-03 12:37
Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed the article.

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So, what are Sam and Dean going to do? Battle THE DARKNESS!!!! one week and then put on their fed suits and solve a case the next? That simply won't work with the concept they've introduced this time round,
I could actually see it going either way. There were 'filler' episodes when the boys were battling the leviathans. who were supposedly a catastrophe. Each ep would mention that they were "waiting" to hear back from someone or that they hadn't seen any new evil activity so they didn't know where to go fight the big bad. I would theorize that this "monster" format would be some form of new evil, though, so each week further defines the Darkness. This is a combination of the MoTW format and the S4/S5 format, where almost every ep was built around the myth arc.
E
# E 2015-06-04 08:00
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Each ep would mention that they were "waiting" to hear back from someone or that they hadn't seen any new evil activity so they didn't know where to go fight the big bad.
Yeah... that's exactly what I am afraid of. They did the same thing with the tablets.... "geez, we have no info, lets go solve a case." It was pretty tiresome and blatantly obvious stalling. I would hope that the writing would be more consistent, but since it's the same writers, same show runner it will probably be the same writing formula, which I believe Carver described as "throwing things at the wall to see what sticks." It makes me very worried for the coming season.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-05-30 18:59
If my theory held true then I'm pretty sure the Darkness touching Sam wouldn't be good for him! I'd finally get my evil Sam <3
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-30 20:24
Yeah, for three episodes. It'll be "The Year of the Deanmon Redux" ... "The Year of DarkSam!" only not so much a year... would you settle for three episodes and then just as he starts getting really interesting and is showing all kind of delicious evil promise, we cure him. Hey, enjoy him while you got him because we DemonDean fans had to. God only knows, Carver and Singer can't actually separate Sam and Dean for even an episode! The fan girls would riot. Riot I say!!!
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-05-31 05:09
*grumbles* Well I'd settle for 3 episodes.. Actually it should be dealt with just like soulless Sam, where he was soulless for nearly half a season. The Darkness would slowly corrupt him. Dean would become suspicious and one day confront him, only to have Sam turn on him and uttering a haunting sentence as he grips his neck "And there's nothing you can do about it.."
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-31 07:54
Yeah don't get too excited. I still say that The Darkness! is going to be amoral corporate suit wearers with "Hi! I'm The Darkness #x" nametags... ;) Try as I might I can't see them pulling this one off and with all the loose strings? Crowley being evil again, Rowena and the BOTD and Codex in the wind, Metatron with the Demon Tablet out and about doing who knows what, Death dead - or not and the ramifications, Crowleys son still here/possible butterfly effect - or not, Cas all but fully charged up, Dean and Sam clearing the air, the MOC as the key/lock and The Darkness!!!! Oh and lest we forget - the teenagers!!! Claire, Kate, Alex, and we'll throw Krissy in there too for good measure... and who knows how Jodys and Donnas Home and Hunter Training Camp for Wayward Teens is getting along? My guess is The Darkness will be about as scary and prevalent as the Leviathans. Until of course the last two episodes. I'm sorry my pessimism is showing. I'll try and keep it under wraps. But the way they butchered DemonDean/MOCDe an/FirstBlade.. . and all the awesome directions that storyline could have gone for BOTH Sam and Dean? Instead we get Dean gripping his forearm and staring into mirrors and Sam looking worried and landing on his ass a lot. Yeah. So The Darkness! This I'll believe when I see them pull it off but not before. People are expecting something epic. May I call their attention to Purgatory and all the spec over that hiatus. Show is saying "game changer, totally different landscape... and didn't they say the same thing about the angels falling and running around on Earth having been shut out of Heaven and we all saw what a snoozefest cluster**** that became. Warring factions my ass. TPTB are running out of time to be the bold, challenging, exciting show we know it can be. They horribly squandered this seasons opportunities. It could have been incredible, instead it was credible. Okay, good even. Maybe with a slant toward great but not what it should've been. They are too scared to pull the trigger, do something different, separate the boys for several episodes, let them go truly bad - we can take it! No instead they keep using the same safe template they always do. Yet every year I say to myself, this is going to be the year they really go for it. Sad to say I don't think they ever will beyond what we have already gotten. Doesn't mean I won't watch. Doesn't mean I don't love the show or the boys as much as ever. It just means I won't be fooled again.
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-06-03 12:42
I need to ask...The trials purified Sam's blood (per Sam's own words) so why would the Darkness touching him be any different than it touching Dean (or anyone else)? Or don't you subscribe to his blood being purified because the trials weren't finished? I'm trying to understand your theory. :)
E
# E 2015-06-04 09:13
Actually Sam said "these trials, they're purifying (present tense) me." Who knows if that purification actually was concluded. He did not complete the trails so was Sam's blood totally purified or not? The topic of Sam's blood as never been brought up again and for me is a major dangling plot thread that I'd like to see addressed. The issues of Sam's blood was a core element of the first five years of the show and a foundation element for the series. The fact that they alluded to this incredibly important issue and then just dropped it makes me cranky. I'd LOVE in season 11 to find that it was Sam's blood and the MoC cure that drew the darkness to Sam and the reason that it might want to take him over. They will never go in this direction though because this administration has clearly decided that the show is only about Dean now.
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-05-31 17:38
Loved your threads and also the new theories that has risen.

I actually liked the thought that they have turned "hunting monsters" to "hunting evil". It would clear up the matter that even if the familiar monsters are there some have not been evil and they are trying to live normal life and not hurting people. Hunting specifically everything "evil" means that they would focus and make sure those they kill are evil. It could also add to the theme of TD.

I like that the brothers are now unaffected by supernatural force and they are united against a big bad. My greatest hope is what ever they do is opposite Leviathans. Those were great and felt dangerous only in purgatory. I really disliked the whole season because of those monsters so I really do hope they put their creative juices flowing and think a really good way to get out of this and good story with it. I saw the mark releasing the darkness as big of a twist they gave us with Sam releasing the last seal by killing Lilith and not preventing it. New story to go forward.

And the angry covenant Hamster was Olivette. ;)

- Lilah
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-06-03 12:45
Thank you.

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I actually liked the thought that they have turned "hunting monsters" to "hunting evil". It would clear up the matter that even if the familiar monsters are there some have not been evil and they are trying to live normal life and not hurting people. Hunting specifically everything "evil" means that they would focus and make sure those they kill are evil. It could also add to the theme of TD.
I hadn't thought through it that far, but I like your idea too. That would be a natural progression from the Monster dilemma theme they explored for so long.
Tealka
# Tealka 2015-06-04 01:07
AlyCat22: "Why would an amoral force care one way or another about killing?" You got me. This was Carver's script, not mine. Death said, "Before there was light. . . . There was the Darkness, a horribly destructive, amoral force that was beaten back by God and the archangels in a terrible war. God locked the Darkness away where it could do no harm…."

To me, "horribly destructive" and "where it could do no harm" suggest this force doesn't just move stuff around. It kills living things. Is it intelligent? Probably so. The Mark was somehow connected to the Darkness, and Death speaks of the Mark as having a will.

The standard definition of "amoral" is "lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something." God is the author of divine law. He is love and the highest good. But the Darkness is separate and distinct from God. Because it exists outside of SN's God and perhaps even before him, it's neither moral nor immoral. It's amoral. In contrast to God the Creator, the Darkness is the Destroyer. Maybe Carver had something like that in mind.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-06-04 05:03
Yeah like Ultron in the latest Avengers movie. Like I said, Carver, do you even have an original idea anymore? Carver had a perfect opportunity to take the MOC/DemonDean storyline somewhere amazing for all the characters involved. Instead he and Bob Singer chickened out. The Darkness for Season 11 is going to be a harder sell because of the subject matter. It's the biggest big to date. Unless The Darkness is weaker because of it's confinement all this time, how are Sam and Dean going to fight something that it took God and all his Angels to defeat the first time around? Unfortunately based on their track record to date, I don't anticipate them taking this storyline anywhere beyond the predictable we always get. Hello Leviathans 2.0! It's so frustrating how year after year after Season 5 they set themselves up for greatness but each and every time they just won't pull the trigger. It's like a Supernatural curse reared its ugly head starting with the Season 5 finale and has been weaving it's influence throughout the show ever since. And apparently if the mytharc for Season 10 was any indication there doesn't appear to be any cure or lifting of the curse in sight. Sigh.

It is beyond frustrating to watch the first 3 episodes, finally seeing DemonDean starting to show his evil side and then just as it gets really interesting, he's cured. Then to see them waste such prime real estate as Cain and the MOC... all this tell and very little show but filler ep after filler ep and angsty teenager after angsty teenager - gah! So yeah. After 10 years I've finally been beaten into Show submission and even I have to admit that I no longer have the faith that they will ever truly "bring it" and next season will just be more BAU. Come on Carver, prove me wrong. Please.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-06-04 05:15
Did you read what Alice said in Bit's and Pieces thread. Robbie Thompson said at the panel for SPN that the intention was to take Demon Dean into the 200th episode where he would be pulled back. But because of Jared's injury the first half had to be re thought. Unfortunately Jared was really hurt. As I watch those first few episodes he looks like a gentle breeze could knock him right over. It's amazing he could do as much as he did. That was why I assume Sam was knocked out or tied up for most of the first half. I hope that more of what said in that panel gets posted at some point. It sounded really interesting.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-06-04 07:08
Thats really interesting! Thanks. I'll have to check it out. Ive read several places (and I thought he actually said in an interview) that Robert Singer had no intention of carrying it past 3 episodes and that it wasnt because of the 200th. They could have kept the storyline going, worked around it somehow. I thought even Jensen said it was originally only to last 3 episodes... now Thompson comes out saying this. Probably a combination of the two reasons. That still doesn't excuse the handling of the MOC storyline or the fact that they could have had DemonDean reappear later not fully cured. They certainly teased that enough. As far as Jared goes - I'm glad his arms better. He was doing some pretty brutal obstacles for the Tough Mudder. That one with the rings on the bridge? Ouch.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-06-04 09:47
Well this seemed to be from Robbie's mouth to Alice's ears so I guess that is as close as we can get to what the writers had in mind.
Tealka
# Tealka 2015-06-04 13:01
Great points, AlyCat22. I think part of the problem is that, for most of its lifespan, SN has been on the bubble. EK didn't think the show would last for more than three years; he anticipated it ending with the defeat of Mary's killer--the biggest big bad the Winchesters had ever known: a Demon! When the series was renewed, EK had to go for a bigger big bad. Had he known SN would last as long as it has, EK might have selected a more modest villain like Beelzebub. Instead he chose the big guy himself: Lucifer! Again, SN was renewed, leaving SG with the dilemma of trying to find a bigger big bad than the devil himself. She tried turning from external threats to internal ones by introducing sociopathic Soulless Sam and murderer/sadist / would-be god, Castiel. When that approach pretty much bombed, she set aside religious myth and tradition, opting for whales in suits! The Leviathan inspired about as much archetypal fear in the audience as Sharknado. Enter Carver. He put the series back into a remotely biblical context with a Hell Knight, the God tablet, and a rewrite of the fall of the angels. Though a breath of fresh air compared to the fish, Abaddon fell far short of out-villaining Lucifer or even Azazel, for that matter (all that bright pink lipstick.) Things finally took a turn for the better with the introduction of the MOC/blade--a big bad in the form of a curse shared by Cain with Dean. However, Carver authors teleplays; essentially, he's a short story writer not a novelist. He doesn't seem to have the slightest idea of how to gradually build and develop a myth arc the way EK did (with help from an expert arc builder, as he himself admitted.)

Making matters worse, Carver set out to make Demon Dean the big bad of S10. This could have worked fine had the show runner let us know Dean wasn't responsible for what the MOC made him do. But Carver decided to impose his personal philosophy on the show. According to this way of thinking, the good among us are also monsters and the monsters among us are also good. Thus, Carver announced that Dean would not be possessed or controlled by the MOC. Instead, the tat would simply urge on the evil/monstrous side of Dean's own soul. The problem there should have been obvious from the beginning. If Demon Dean intentionally killed, raped, tortured one innocent person, the blame would be Dean's. He'd have crossed the moral line, losing his heroic stature forever, and SN would be kaput. So, finding he'd painted himself into a corner, Carver pretty much limited the evil/monstrous side of Dean's own soul to singing bad karaoke.

Now, Carver's going for "the biggest big bad to date," as you say. If the Js sign on for S12 (as I hope they do), the Darkness will have to hang around for at least two years because no bigger bad is possible and no smaller one will satisfy. I couldn't be happier that Carver's decided to bring a truly immense villain on the show. SN simply doesn't work without that focus. But will Carver be able to handle this "horribly destructive" force, this Ancient Enemy of God? Probably not. What he needs to no is show a little humility by picking up the phone and calling in a "novelist" who can.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-06-04 07:54
Did anyone notice that, technically, Baby now belongs to Sam? Dean left the keys with a note that said "She's all yours" so the car now belongs to Sam. Of course we know that the show would never follow through on this but I'd like to see Sam bust Dean's chops over this in Season 11.

As far as "The Darkness" goes, it has been described as an amoral force but, by its name and Death's description, it is a dark/evil force. The only two characters we've seen affected by this have been Cain and Dean, both bearing the Mark designed to hold it back. However, for both Cain and Dean, there was a moral element to their killing; it wasn't just random acts of violence. In Dean's case, the people he killed were evil, or monsters, or "had it coming". And, as warped and perverse as it was, Cain decided to kill his own descendants because he felt his bloodline was tainted. This is a long winded way of questioning how they are going to portray this in Season 11. It raises some interesting questions, particularly with the argument of good vs. evil. Will someone infected/affect ed by "The Darkness", an amoral force, be considered evil, or are they only evil if they act out and do something evil?
eilf
# eilf 2015-06-04 12:44
Sam verbally returned it njspnfan. Sorry to tell you! It was in the list of things he said to Dean 'you got your baby back'. (actually the only transcript I can find says 'you get your baby back' so that might be correct).
E
# E 2015-06-04 13:14
Ah.. but a written agreement is more binding than a verbal one! Sam has that slip of paper! HAH. Baby is Sam's!!!
eilf
# eilf 2015-06-04 13:17
She gets terrible gas mileage.

ETA: I want Sam to have his own car and the resultant freedom ;) and I have been thinking on and off since i made this post (about 20 minutes ago), what sort of sexy and cool car I would like him to have. And I honestly can't come up with anything, I just realised how truly I do not care about cars ... (TMO about me, sorry :D )

However if anyone else can come up with one let me know.
eilf
# eilf 2015-06-04 14:25
It has been pointed out to me that Baby's poor gas mileage in town is more than made up for by the fact that she can get anywhere in the continental united states from a starting point in Lebanon Kansas in under 4 hours ...
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-06-04 15:06
Most importantly, you can fit at least 3 bodies in that trunk.
eilf
# eilf 2015-06-04 15:53
.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-06-04 21:11
Hmmm, not sure how to interpret that period. Is it a period of amusement, disagreement, concern? I am at a complete loss. :):)
eilf
# eilf 2015-06-04 21:22
It means 'I decided not to put this comment here' :D I actually moved it to the discussion page, however discussions which have no replies apparently don't appear in the new comments page so I really should have put in a link instead of a .
Here is the link: reasons-the-imp ala-is-not-like -other-cars ("http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/lets-discuss/reasons-the-imp ala-is-not-like -other-cars")
ThisOldBag
# ThisOldBag 2015-06-04 16:43
No! I ship Sam and Baby! Dean needs to back away now. Really, poor Sam, how many times has he been left the impala and then had to give it back, and sometimes accused of stealing it, or douching it up? Sam loves baby, why can't you see that? Seriously Sam needs a big SUV with room for a moose to stretch out.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-06-04 13:41
yep, I remember the scene but Sam didn't hear him; his ears were probably still ringing from MoC Dean kicking his butt :D:D:D
eilf
# eilf 2015-06-04 13:52
Whatcha talking about? :P Both brothers had entirely forgotten all of that by the time they came outside the bar. it was like nothing at all happened, it was like the entire season never happened ....
E
# E 2015-06-04 18:55
Hmmmm...... a car for Sam huh? That's tough. It has to be cool or funky like a 56 WV bug or a giant old Suburban, or an old Land Rover, but Sam might want something that is environmentally conscious if he had his choice, and possibly a bit more slick. Also there is the big man's size to remember....not to mention the need for storage space. How about a 1969 Camero?



This could work for Sam. Jared said that a 69 Camero was his first car. Supposedly he still has it.
eilf
# eilf 2015-06-04 19:37
Oh a jeep or a landrover! That would be excellent - pity they already went there for Cole ...

A bug would be too small sadly! He could maybe have a hippy VW van thing since it isn't like the show is famous for its car-chases anyway. And it would annoy Dean, which is half the fun.
eilf
# eilf 2015-06-04 19:37
Or a Harley!

"I Need Your Clothes, Your Boots, and Your Motorcycle"
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-06-04 21:13
Didn't he actually say "your close- gif dem to me."
eilf
# eilf 2015-06-04 21:34
Well it WAS said in a very very strong Austrian accent.

You win a prize for getting the reference though:

I also win a prize:
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-06-05 00:35
I like your prize better. Wanna trade?
eilf
# eilf 2015-06-05 12:29
Mwahaha .... nope! :P

(though J2 on those little bikes is really cute so .... )
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-06-04 21:28
I can picture Sam in that car! Just what we all need - something that makes him even sexier!;)
E
# E 2015-06-05 06:15
Yeah, that car is badass! Especially in that awesome grey color. This would rival Baby for coolness. Although, a part of me would LOVE to see Sam scrunched into a tiny VW Bug like this one......

Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-06-05 08:28
What would be funny is an episode next year in which the brothers go car shopping for Sam for when he needs his own car. They could have him trying out all of these different ones, like the tiny Bug you showed, and various sedate, middle class looking ones. Some are ruled out by Sam because they're too small, many others are nixed by Dean because they're not cool enough, until they finally settle on that Camaro you showed. I love the rare occasions when they show the brothers doing normal, everyday things, like when they were in the laundromat in TMATEOTB in Season 4.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-06-05 09:26
As someone who is 6'3", I can tell you that a VW Bug is NOT the car for Sam Winchester :):):)
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-06-05 09:30
yeah but how many bodies can you fit in the trunk? These things are very important.

I always liked the car he drove is Season 9's Sharp Teeth; I think it was a '72 Dodge Dart Demon.
E
# E 2015-06-05 11:25
Oh yeah... that Doge Dart was pretty good too. Yeah, I guess the VW is out. Love that cute little car. The trunk on those things is pretty big considering how small the car is.

But this one works too. Kind of apropos that it's a "Demon."
eilf
# eilf 2015-06-05 12:39

(this is actually on a site called 'Brothers Trucks'!)

ETA: they could even do a time travel episode where they go back to 49 and accidentally bring the truck to the present day ... Dean doesn't want it because he has Baby, Sam shrugs and goes, 'you know I kinda like it'.
E
# E 2015-06-05 17:59
Any chance they could find truckzilla again? I think Sam would love to have his father's truck.