What's up Doc, indeed!
 
I grew up on Looney Tunes cartoons. They were a staple of my TV watching diet as a kid. They were on all the time. Hell, the channel I work for now still plays Merrie Melodies in the afternoons! I was never a fan of Bugs – that insect-rabbit hybrid - I thought he was a bit of a tool. I loved that sheepdog Sam and the wolf Ralph (who by the way, looked exactly like Wile E. Coyote! Did they not think we could tell)? But my favourite was always Road Runner and Coyote. I loved all the crazy things that Coyote came up with to try and catch that bird!

So here we have an episode of "Supernatural" that manages to somehow, in a way only "Supernatural" can, bring into play the ridiculousness of the cartoon world, making it seem perfectly acceptable and sensible, while delivering us a poignant story about fear and loss, where the monster of the week is actually a human, and not the human at the centre of the story, Fred.

The anvils, the X marks the spot, the huge firecracker with the red and white stripes, the floating in mid-air before the fall – though that guy should have turned and looked at the camera and waved, or held up a little sign saying "Help" - the convenient holes that can get you from one place to next, who hasn't wanted one of those holes to toss on a wall at some point, Dean Winchester frozen mid-air with a comic sans title, "Hunterus Heroicus". Damn, I laughed so hard at that. Big, loud, explosive laugh!  I always say, if I won the lottery all that anyone would see is an Amy shaped puff of smoke followed by an Amy shaped hole in the wall. Right? This kind of cartoon trope has been a part of my life for all my memory. So guess who giggled with glee throughout "Hunteri Heroici". It was a lovely mix of pathos and the preposterous. Plus there was a talking cat, called Bob, who was voiced by Bob Singer, "dumb-ass".
 
But, in true "Supernatural" form, all the funny was simply a front for some very serious goings on and Fred Jones' cartoon, dream world life, allowed us to delve into the mind set of not only Sam, but also Cass. We saw how sometimes to escape facing a situation or facing the truth, we create another reality for ourselves, even if we know that it's never going to be possible to maintain. When faced with the realness of life, of our past, our actions, our pain, the pressures, the stress, the commitments, we try to escape by painting a picture of our perfect life, want we think we want to be doing, how we think we want our life to look, just so we don't have to face the real thing and cope with all the hurt.

For Castiel it was about not dealing with Heaven or the angels, not facing what he did when he Leviathaned out, not facing the devastation he caused to the Heavenly Host. He was scared that if he saw what had become of his old world, he might not survive it. He was scared he might kill himself. But he's an angel, he still needs to help people and he's happiest with the Winchesters, so for Cass his dream world became Winchesters+Helping=Happy. Consequently, Cass decided to become a hunter, because that's easier than the alternative he just can't face.
 
Then we have Sam, .
 
Ok, so what are we to make of Sam's flashbacks? Is it all real or is it all a fabrication of his mind?

I'm tending towards real, mostly, though I still think that how Sam remembers and what it was actually like in the relationship may be two different things. I'm struggling with the notion that he has created Amelia, that he was locked in a padded room somewhere or just driving the back roads and living in his mind, that their love affair is a complete fiction, but I'm ok with the notion that he's romanticised the crap out of it, if only due to the dreamy, glowing, state the flashbacks appear in. I think she exists. I think Sam and Amelia had a relationship. But I'm not convinced it's the one we're seeing through Sam's memories.

"Look it can be nice living in a dream world, it can be great I know that and you can hide and pretend all the crap out there doesn't exist, but you can't do it forever because eventually, whatever it is you're running from it'll find you, it'll come along, it'll punch you in the gut and then you gotta wake up because, if you don't, then trying to keep that dream alive will destroy you, it'll destroy everything."
 
I think Sam's speech to Fred can be taken a couple of ways: 1. That Sam was living in a literal dream world and he's starting to understand that now and see the cracks. Or 2. That the world he chose to attempt to live in when Dean disappeared, is a figurative dream world, as in it's a fantasy existence that could never been maintained because of who he is, what he knows and what he's been through. I'm leaning towards 2. Because, if you look at the words Sam says to Fred, he could even be describing his attempt to leave the family business and go to Stanford, his attempt to live an everyday life with Jess. Back then, he was punched in the gut when the life that he was trying to leave behind, found him and called him back and that dream of a life with Jess went up in flames quite literally. All that followed nearly did destroy him and he was consumed with revenge and nightmares and insomnia. Now he's reliving a similar situation. He tried again, to embrace an everyday existence, this time with Amelia, even entertaining thoughts of going back to school, but his old life, his real life if you like, pulled him back to hunting. Another punch in the gut from reality. (By the way, I'm not talking about Dean and I'm not blaming Dean for pulling him back in either time, I think hunting is what he's meant to be doing – no escaping it). Yet, intellectually anyway, Sam appears to be saying that he knows that the life he was leading with Amelia is a dream that can't survive and if he doesn't let go and move on, it will destroy him and destroy everything around him, including his relationship with his brother. He can't pretend the crap out there doesn't exist. Maybe this was Sam coming to terms with his issues with hunting. Maybe this was Sam realising that, regardless of what he thinks he wants or what he once wanted, this life now, the life of a hunter, is the life that will always chase him down and punch him in the gut and he can't run from it any more. As much as the Winchesters are all about free will, there's a great big dollop of destiny in their story as well.

It's interesting really, because Dean went through exactly the same thing when Sam jumped into the pit. He always thought he wanted a family. He hung on to the notion of this one woman after a brilliant weekend of what sounds like totally awesome, acrobatic sex! He then reconnected with her and by now she had a kid and it seemed to be everything Dean had always wanted. It was a dream that he never quite let go of. When his brother was gone and he was left alone not knowing which way to turn, he turned to Lisa and to that dream. But he discovered that he couldn't ignore that the crap out there does exist and this dream world life, could not been maintained. That it would destroy him and everything he loved in its wake.
 
Dean learnt that the dream of a family was just that, a dream, and it helped him move forward to accept, even through dark times, that he is a hunter and that's his future. Maybe this is why Sam has gone through the same thing, the same search, the same desire to live out what he always thought he wanted, only to discover, that saving people, hunting things, the family business, that driving down crazy street, next to Dean is where Sam truly belongs.
 
It makes absolute sense to me that the brothers would both be searching for family and comfort and love, because they were raised without those things, in an everyday context. Yes, John loved his boys, yes they were a family, .but that traditional family notion was not something that existed in their world and you can be sure they looked at the other kids at school and wished they could be like them. We saw that in Sam's Heaven...where he also had a dog coincidentally, but I bet you anything, Dean entertained the same dreams when he was a kid, bravado aside.

Now, the one fly in my it's all real if a somewhat romanticised notion of Amelia and Sam's relationship ointment, is Amelia's dad. Far Away Eyes and I had an epic, practically all day, conversation about our take on Mr Thompson. I'm sure she'll go into it in far more detail and analysis in her review as she's way better at that stuff than me! But it was interesting to both of us that Mr Thompson was played be a recycled actor; Brian Markinson. We last saw Brian as Jerry in "Phantom Traveller" and as that character he's someone who knew John Winchester and knew the boys. It's probably nothing, he's a Vancouver based actor and lord knows over the 8 seasons we've seen plenty of recycling (like the old woman in the home being the knife wielding old woman from "Bedtime Stories") but what made everything in my body prick up was when he started on about John. I mean, who does that, come in and just start to bitch out someone's dead dad? Sam was so proud when he rattled off John's Marine unit and he was ripped right down. I thought that was very strange and totally rude! So what if Sam was using someone from his past, someone who knew him and his family, putting that person into his dream world to say the things in his own mind that he couldn't say out loud. Basically the whole interaction with the dad and what he said to Sam was pretty much what I think Sam would have already been beating himself up about. It was almost like the dad was Sam's inner monologue.
 
Sam's a college dropout. A real fixer-upper. Sam's a runner. He's got the look; "The one a lot of guys get after they've been through the meat grinder the one that lets you know they've seen a lot of crap they can't forget. The second their feet hits solid ground they start running and don't stop, not 'til they find something to hang on to." Even the conversation between the dad and Amelia was interesting; "If Don saw you like this, you need to come home" "Is that why you're here, to drag me back?" "It won't last, .you are living in a dream world" "I'm happy dad and I haven't been happy in a really long time." Maybe Amelia is representing Sam's subconscious too? And I swear to God that when Sam and the dad are washing the dishes, Sam presses into his "Stone number 1" hand and gives it a good rub! Was this Sam's mind subconsciously trying to sort out reality from fantasy, just how Dean showed him to, or was Jared just rubbing the soap off!

Then we had the chat about Dean, which was brilliant by the way and so sad, because you could see Sam's pain and you could see him try to pull himself back together and shake it off and refocus on Amelia. But that conversation was interesting too because of how it started, because of the beer. We specifically saw at the beginning of the episode, Dean come out of "Big Ryan's Gas and Sip" with two bottles of soda that he popped the caps off with his knife, or what ever. We are literally focused on the bottles. The shot of Dean opens on the bottles as he pops their caps and then we pan up as he hands one bottle to Sam. Then we see Mr Thompson do exactly the same thing, which triggers Sam to start talking about Dean. Then ring, ring, oh heys Don's alive! What?! And yeah, Don/Dean, come on!? There must be something in that. I saw someone on twitter saying something about Dean's rule that you, "Don't take a joint from a guy named Don" and I thought, oh man, now I have to add that into the mix! Once again, is Sam integrating things into this dream world from his real life? Maybe this is something Dean had said to Sam in the past?
 
Wow. I think just did a full circle! Are you confused? I am! Ok, I think that Amelia is real. I think that we're going to see her in the present, but what I'm wondering is, was the relationship not quite how Sam is remembering it? Is his perception all screwed up? Has he dressed it up in his mind to represent the dream of the life he thought he wanted? Has he blown it up into more than it was and maybe even created new scenarios and incorporated people who weren't there? In his lost and broken state, did he create something bigger to hang on to? Which would mean even in his dreams, he's beating himself up over his past and his choices. Aw man...that's so damn sad.
 
One thing I really hope is that it wasn't Don lurking in the shadows in the opening episode, because that would be lame and a major disappointment! I mean BIG! I would be bummed out! Though that scene makes a buttload more sense if the dead husband is still alive. That could've been Sam and Amelia's last night together. That's why he sadly slipped out. That's why she watched without saying anything. They'd discussed it. He was leaving before Don returned. Unless Sam made Don up or he represents Dean coming back.....and round and round I go again!

Of course, then we bring the whole angel mess into the picture and I can't help but wonder if the angels bought Don back to push Sam out, to get him to find Kevin and the tablets because they knew Crowley and his henchmen were circling. Because, how long did the army think Don was dead for? I mean it was quite a few months yeah? He wasn't M.I.A. he was dead! So, that's either one monumental blunder on behalf of the army, or the angels are up to no good! Blah! Who knows! A gal could go crazy thinking all this stuff through! And while I'm just freaking my head out, I want to know who the "they" were who told Benny about the Purgatory hole? Huh? Huh?!
 
Also, I'm starting to think that Sam's flashbacks are supposed to be purposefully jarring. They seem to pop up at times that, well, are a little off-putting. I'm starting to wonder if there's method to this madness, because by showing the flashbacks as incongruent to the story and by showing them to be so different in vibe to everything else going on in the Winchester's world, by having them jump out and bite us on the ass, we are shown, very obviously, that there's no room for that kind of world in Sam and Dean's world. This kind of happy domestic scene will always be a bad and awkward fit for Sam and Dean's life, so maybe this is why the flashbacks feel so out of place, because they are out of place and they are meant to emphasise that point to both us and Sam.
 
Phew, .my brains hurt!

Sam's speech to Fred was also the jumping off point for Cass to realise; he can't run from his life either. As he said to Dean, "I know I can't run anymore." So he decides that he must face Heaven, what he did and the outcome of his actions. But Naomi has other ideas and zaps him out mid-sentence to tell him no, you can't come back to Heaven. You've got to wonder why? Why does she need to keep him earth bound. My guess is that the angels that pulled him from Purgatory, did it on the down-low and the other angels don't know Cass is back. I'd also say, that regardless of Cass' misdeeds in Heaven, he still has supporters there; we saw that in "Reading is Fundamental" with Inias and of course with the poor, unfortunate Samandiriel AKA Alfie.

Dean seemed pretty good in this episode though! Yay! I mean, at least one of them seemed to be doing ok for a minute! It probably won't last, . I'm happy to see that he's happy to have Cass back and I was also happy to see that he didn't get mad when Cass yelled at him, instead he tried to get the angel to open up. He thought there had to be some level of understanding between them because of their shared Purgatory experience and maybe he could help Cass acclimatise, but really, it was all the stuff prior to Purgatory that was making Cass sweat. It was interesting that Dean said it took him a few weeks to find his sea legs after he got puked out of Purgatory. He seems to be doing much better now. I know a lot of people have been worried about Dean's PTSD and that it may have been dropped, but I've always figured, Dean came out feeling like he had a new focus on what he does in his life. A new focus on hunting. Sure there would have been an initial shock coming back to the real world and trying to reintegrate and we saw a bit of that. He saw and did some stuff in Purgatory I'm sure he'd rather forget, but that could be said for his entire hunting life. 

He said the experience was "pure" and I definitely got the vibe that he didn't necessarily hate it there. It honed his skills and made him realise he was real good at this stuff. So for me, I've never been too bothered that we haven't seen him falling apart at the seams. It makes sense to me and to be honest, I'm just so damn happy not to see him with a scotch in his hand bemoaning his life, that I'll roll with just about anything. But the PTSD thing (which I had to look up initially because it was not something I was familiar with) has never fazed me. I'm happy that Dean seems happy to be hunting. That he came out of the experience cleansed of season 7's God-awful depression! I'll take this Dean gladly.

I thought Cass was such a treat in this episode. I love him when he's all awkward and not understanding the reference. No one was making fun of him either really, which was great. I mean they weren't putting him down when he didn't get it. They just kind of giggle to themselves and then explained. I totally dug his face when Dean asked if he could move the anvil. Cass looked at Dean like, "Of course I can, human gnat." But, we can't have him fixing everything left and right or healing people here and there. So, I'm pretty happy he's decided hunting is not for him. Cass as the third wheel is not what I want to see. Third wheel, bless him. I did love him in this one though, like, so much. The closing scene of this episode was gorgeous, just gorgeous, with Cass sitting with Fred and listening to the music in his mind. It felt so peaceful. Cass looked totally angelic.

 

It was also wonderful to have an actor of Mike Farrell's standing on the show. I grew up watching re-runs of M.A.S.H. and by the time I watched it, Trapper John was well and truly gone and BJ was Hawkeye's sidekick, so I grew up on Mike Farrell. He was great too huh? Just really, I don't know, lifted the scenes somehow by his presence. Not that our guys weren't doing amazing work as usual, they were. They turn in the goods week in, week out. And when it comes to the comedy, Jensen and Misha, in particular, just kill it. I think the level of acting this season has once again stepped up a notch...as has the pretty. For goodness sake. All I could think in that scene with the wife and the mistress was, how are those two actresses even remembering their lines with those 3 standing in a row in front of them! P-lease!
 
There were a couple of other things that I wanted to mention that I really dug.

I thought Sam shoulder checking Cass out of the Impala was bloody hilarious. Both of the boys said "NO" when he asked if he could travel in the front seat! Gosh that made me laugh. I loved that Roman Enterprises got a mention. I geek out over stuff like that. I thought it was equal parts ridiculous and hilarious that their FBI alias' were Crosby, Stills and Nash. REALLY?! I loved that cop. She was awesome and I loved that she called Dean Scully, because we all know it was always Sam who was the red headed woman! I loved that Mike Farrell's character was called Fred Jones. This, I assume is after Chuck Jones and Fred "Tex" Avery, the legendary Looney Tunes directors. Whose stuff was Cass going through on the bed in the motel? He was going through, what I assume was one of the boy's toilet bags, with way too much interest! That was peculiar. I also love his "I'll watch over you" line. Awkward!

You know what I thought would have been funny though, did you see Dean checking out the nurse when the old lady was chatting up Cass/Charles? Dean's tongue should have rolled out of his head like you know, how it does with the wolf in the cartoons. Or maybe his eyes could have stood out on their stalks. Or he could have banged his foot on the ground and howled, "Owwooooooo" Ha! This is why I'm not writing the show...and obviously I've seen way too many cartoons!

So I've watched "Hunteri Heroici" errmmm maybe six times now and each time I love it a little more. Which is so interesting to me, because as most of you know, I love the angsty episodes best. But the thing with this one was, though it played for laughs, it had a hell of a lot of heart and a hell of a lot of character reveal and it set up more of the mystery around the angels and around Sam. The best funny ones always propel the mythology some how. I applaud Andrew Dabb. I think he did an excellent job with this episode, maybe the dude should always write on his own!

Ok, well, I've gone on long enough. Let me know your Sam theories and what you thought of the episode. Next week is the mid-season finale and I have a feeling we're all going to be hurting like crazy after it, so until then, thanks for reading and, that's all folks!

-sweetondean

 

Comments  

Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-01 09:14
Dear sweetondean,

I am awfully glad, that I am not the only one running round and round with Sam´s flashbacks and their endless possibilities in my head.

I´ve been having all of those thoughts (and more) over and over again and whenever I think, I got it, I´ve come full circle, there´s some bit just not fitting right.

WHat the heck are they doing to us?

As for Dean´s PTSD:
Dean.Does.Not.Have.PTSD.

I know it´s a fetchy catch all term, for someone having trouble readjusting after a stressful experience, but Dean does not have PTSD.
If it doesn´t last and if people DO readjust it´s not PTSD.


He might still develop it though. But until then I will just take his words at face value: He needed a few weeks to find his sea legs.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 10:38
Thanks for the comment Fluffy!
It's so true, just when you think you've sorted that Sam theory, the brain throws a wrench it!
And I'm with you on the PTSD thing and Dean. In fact, this is the first time I've mentioned it. His ability to readjust post Purgatory fits how he felt about the place for me. :-)
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-01 11:12
Quote:
Thanks for the comment Fluffy!
It's so true, just when you think you've sorted that Sam theory, the brain throws a wrench it!
And I'm with you on the PTSD thing and Dean. In fact, this is the first time I've mentioned it. His ability to readjust post Purgatory fits how he felt about the place for me. :-)
Jup... pretty much.
Dean kind of liked Purgatory. It´s as if that place was made for him. He´s a Hunter. It´s not just a job, it´s was he IS. He´s a warrior, a soldier and basically hunting is ingrained so deeply in his soul, it is just what he is made of.
And having a whole playground with things to hunt? Without any doubt, or grey areas? Oh, that is so his heaven (if there could be a place, where he could rest up now then and if there were burgers)


Whereas Sam just isn´t. Sam is more a scholar. He does his job, yes, he what is necessary, no matter how painful it might be for himself. Which only makes him more of a hero. But in his heart, he is and will always be in need for a cause to fight for. Then he will fight. But fighting for fightings sake? Nope, that´s not Sam.

He would make an awesome new Bobby though ^^


BTW, does anyone else besides me sincerely hope, Carver will finally bring Adam home?
Sorry, can´t just get that thought out of my head right now.
We´ve been talking so much about OOC behaviour the last days. But the most OOC thing EVER has not been adressed yet.
Dean and Sam haven´t even tried to rescue their baby brother, the one who is the most innocent and clueless of all of them?
They don´t even care.
They don´t even remember.
How did Adam put it? "We may be blood, but we aren´t family"
hades
# hades 2012-12-01 13:32
Dean 'happy' in Purgatory sort of keeps of reminding me what Jeremy Carver said about Perception and something Jensen said about a line in an upcoming episode, Dean says 'well at least one of us should be happy' and while one automatically assumes that he's referring to Sam I cant really help thinking that its he who is actually the 'happy' one? What if Sam's 'happy' little life wasn't really all that happy? We just perceive it to be happy because its normal and we perceive Dean's year to be not happy because it was Purgatory? When I look at the two of them right now and where their year has left them I would say Dean now seems 'happy' where Sam seems anything but. Does that make sense?
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 16:03
Quote:
When I look at the two of them right now and where their year has left them I would say Dean now seems 'happy' where Sam seems anything but. Does that make sense?
This is the happiest I've seen Dean in a long time. He's Dean again...one liners, checking out the chicks, all huntered up. *sigh* happy Dean=happy sweetondean!
Karen Graham
# Karen Graham 2012-12-01 18:07
Yes, I agree. I wrote on another post that I haven't seen any of the 'happiness' I was expecting in the Sam flashbacks - even the birthday cake scene was tempered by Sam's initial fear of losing Amelia. You could see he was starting to panic. His fear for losing the dog was also extreme and the flashbacks in this latest episode were just so damn sad. He has lost Amelia even though she is still alive.

I've also been intrigued by the ideas floating around that Sam might be imagining Amelia, but either way, it's a pretty sad story for Sam at the moment :(

It does seem like Dean has handled the year apart much better than Sam - maybe because he was fighting for his life and now has a new lease on life. The writers are doing a great job to keep us guessing. Love it!
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 11:33
You are my new hero, sweetondean. :-)

I'm SO glad that you are also going in circles about Sam... he is/he isn't delusional/inve nting stuff/living a normal life..... I'm starting to feel like a damn yoyo!

But oh, yes, the pretty factor is definitely up there. :oops:

As far as Adam, Fluffy. Nope. I don't want him bacd. Never bothered me that he was left in the cage, because of Michael's line to Dean. ("Adam's not home right now.")

Since Adam had died, had been given a hunters funeral, and had only been brought back to give approval to Michael to use his body, I like to think that the angels released his soul back to heaven with his mom. :-)
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-01 12:24
Quote:

As far as Adam, Fluffy. Nope. I don't want him bacd. Never bothered me that he was left in the cage, because of Michael's line to Dean. ("Adam's not home right now.")
If we only knew!
Dean surely seems to think, Adam is in the cage.
After all it´s "not hom RIGHT NOW"

Might just mean: Michael is calling the shots and Adam has no say in it
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 16:06
Quote:
You are my new hero, sweetondean. :-)

I'm SO glad that you are also going in circles about Sam... he is/he isn't delusional/inventing stuff/living a normal life..... I'm starting to feel like a damn yoyo!
OMG! While I was writing this I was thinking...YOU ARE MAKING NO SENSE WOMAN! I just kept going around and around!

Thanks for being understanding! :roll:
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 22:43
Heading back into the he's delusional mode:

On rewatch, I caught an interesting reaction from Sam when talking to the tattoo guy at the residence, who said:

"a lot of these people just tune out and live in their own heads, like maybe the real world is too much for them and they run and hide"

Hmmmm. Clue or red herring?
Leah
# Leah 2012-12-01 11:38
Thanks again for another lovely review. Your affection for the show and it's characters never fails to brighten my day.

Now about Don. I think it was significant that they stopped short of letting Sam see the picture of Don. Could Don be someone we all recognize? Someone NOT Don. Someone angelish, someone demonish? The shadow-figure could be her husband. Lame. Or could be NOT-Don. That would be interesting..

I agree that the flashbacks are meant to be jarring. Poignant but there to illustrate stark differences between hunter existence and the domestic bliss Sam is remembering (or imagining).

Love the moment that Dean offered up shotgun to Cas, I don't feel it was devaluing Sam as some think. It was a pat on the back for his efforts, uneven though they were :)
I think Sam would have been ok with that, having already established his territory!!

I also loved Dean's talk with Cas, which I think was to remind us how not able to talk (yet) the brothers are.

All in all a solid episode, mixing humor and seriousness in the right proportions. Stirring up the speculations and giving us more fine performances as usual.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 16:12
Quote:

Now about Don. I think it was significant that they stopped short of letting Sam see the picture of Don. Could Don be someone we all recognize? Someone NOT Don. Someone angelish, someone demonish? The shadow-figure could be her husband. Lame. Or could be NOT-Don. That would be interesting..

Love the moment that Dean offered up shotgun to Cas, I don't feel it was devaluing Sam as some think. It was a pat on the back for his efforts, uneven though they were :)
I think Sam would have been ok with that, having already established his territory!!
Yeah I thought that about Don...
Or he couldn't look at the photos because Don's not real and that would prove it. In my head I saw him opening that photo album and just turning through blank pages!

And really? I didn't know people were reading anything into that comment about riding shotgun! Oh gosh, I just think it was Dean's way of patting Cass on the back too...nothing underhanded there. I think Sam would have been totally cool with it. Sam's way too comfortable in his own skin to sweat over something like that!

Thanks for your comment Leah! :-)
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 16:22
Quote:


In my head I saw him opening that photo album and just turning through blank pages!
So did I!

Quote:


And really? I didn't know people were reading anything into that comment about riding shotgun! Oh gosh, I just think it was Dean's way of patting Cass on the back too...nothing underhanded there. I think Sam would have been totally cool with it. Sam's way too comfortable in his own skin to sweat over something like that!
It's been discussed, yes. But I agree, Sam would be comfortable with it.... Assuming Sam could actually fit comfortably in the back seat! LOL!
Edit to add - No wonder Sam was so aggressively shoulder-blocki ng Cas from getting in the front! LOL
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 16:38
Quote:
Assuming Sam could actually fit comfortably in the back seat! LOL!
Edit to add - No wonder Sam was so aggressively shoulder-blocking Cas from getting in the front! LOL
Is the only time we've seen him travelling in the back was when Dean and Sam were on the awkward family road trip with Young Mary and John? And yes! I'm not sure where he'd put those legs!
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-01 16:44
But that car is huge!

Sam slept in the back of it in one episode - I think it was beginning of season 3 when Dean was too wired to take any break from hunting and is looking for the next gig two hours after they finish the last one.

And in jump the shark they clearly were both sleeping in it (along with an old tuna sandwich - stinky) because they were several hours drive from anywhere.

I have to admit the shotgun thing bothers me ... :oops:

EDIT: Season 4 - Family Remains
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 16:48
I reckon he'd have to bend those knees of his quite a bit to lie down on that back seat, I don't think he'd be stretching out none! Though, you're right...it's a beast of a car...I've stood next to it! :D
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-01 16:53
Oh dear, maybe I will have to go check that out, watch an episode or so, that is SUCH a trial.

Also Dean may not be quite so tall as Sam but he and a certain other (angelic) person had very little problem fitting in the back of the car... ;-)


Also I am endlessly envious of your story about the trip to Vancouver! :D
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 16:53
Quote:
I reckon he'd have to bend those knees of his quite a bit to lie down on that back seat, I don't think he'd be stretching out none!
Good thing he's flexible! (Yup. I went there. Sorry! :oops: )

Quote:

Though, you're right...it's a beast of a car...I've stood next to it! :D
Jealous!
Grace232
# Grace232 2012-12-01 19:22
Sweetondean,
Sam also sat in back with Jo while Ellen and Dean were in front coming back from Philly in No Exit.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 22:10
Oh yes, thanks Grace!
Sharon
# Sharon 2012-12-01 16:56
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Now about Don. I think it was significant that they stopped short of letting Sam see the picture of Don. Could Don be someone we all recognize? Someone NOT Don. Someone angelish, someone demonish? The shadow-figure could be her husband. Lame. Or could be NOT-Don. That would be interesting..

Love the moment that Dean offered up shotgun to Cas, I don't feel it was devaluing Sam as some think. It was a pat on the back for his efforts, uneven though they were :)
I think Sam would have been ok with that, having already established his territory!!
Yeah I thought that about Don...
Or he couldn't look at the photos because Don's not real and that would prove it. In my head I saw him opening that photo album and just turning through blank pages!

And really? I didn't know people were reading anything into that comment about riding shotgun! Oh gosh, I just think it was Dean's way of patting Cass on the back too...nothing underhanded there. I think Sam would have been totally cool with it. Sam's way too comfortable in his own skin to sweat over something like that!
I can understand why it bothered people. Coming hot on the heels of Dean's tirade at Sam and the better brother comment . We dont really know what Dean's thinking was and in it's self it would of been considered innocuous were the brothers in a better place .
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 17:00
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I can understand why it bothered people. Coming hot on the heels of Dean's tirade at Sam and the better brother comment . We dont really know what Dean's thinking was and in it's self it would of been considered innocuous were the brothers in a better place .
Very true, Sharon.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 17:24
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I can understand why it bothered people. Coming hot on the heels of Dean's tirade at Sam and the better brother comment . We dont really know what Dean's thinking was and in it's self it would of been considered innocuous were the brothers in a better place .
Very true, Sharon.
I didn't see any animosity towards Sam from Dean in this episode, so I'm taking it on face value. Had it been in another episode where there was underlying anger obvious, maybe it could be seen differently, but I can't see it for anything other than what it was in this particular situation.
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 17:33
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I can understand why it bothered people. Coming hot on the heels of Dean's tirade at Sam and the better brother comment . We dont really know what Dean's thinking was and in it's self it would of been considered innocuous were the brothers in a better place .
Very true, Sharon.
I didn't see any animosity towards Sam from Dean in this episode, so I'm taking it on face value. Had it been in another episode where there was underlying anger obvious, maybe it could be seen differently, but I can't see it for anything other than what it was in this particular situation.
I can see both sides... Sam and Dean seem fine in this episode, but there are so many unresolved issues between them (that the writers seem to want to leave ignored at the moment), that just about any little thing can be perceived as a slight. And Dean having made a point about shotgun being Sam's place in the start.... It could very well suggest to some that Cas is moving up in hierarchy...

I hope S&D get on with talking it out! Soon!
Sharon
# Sharon 2012-12-01 17:34
Thats fine but others can feel differently. Like I said coming after his words recently I can see why it bothered people wether Dean was showing animosity or not .
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 21:52
Yes and I always respect how others feel. I can only ever talk about my take on scenes or the episode. But one of the many things I like about this show is that we all see things differently and we all bring different things to the discussion and then we become aware of other ideas and theories.. It's what makes it all so very interesting! :-)
Amy
# Amy 2012-12-01 19:30
Then in my opinion it should have been SAM offering shotgun to Castiel. Shotgun is the only thing Sam has in this world. It shouldn't be taken from him. He should be the one offering it up.

I think this is what some of us who got upset by this line is thinking. Especially after the benny is the better brother ever line... These things connect. If its in the back of out minds then surely it has to be in Sams as well. Especially as it wasn't but a few short years before that Dean was saying Castiel was a better brother then Sam.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-12-02 09:23
Quote:
in my opinion it should have been SAM offering shotgun to Castiel.
Yes this.
Michele Hughes
# Michele Hughes 2012-12-04 13:07
Yup, I agree. Sam should have had the chance to offer up the front passenger seat to Cas. I mean, even though Dean's the older brother it doesn't mean he's the boss of the car, does it? It's Sam's car too :-)
Amy
# Amy 2012-12-04 13:24
Its supposed to be Sam's HOME. So in effect it would be Dean's buddy eyeing Sam's room and telling Dean "Don't want the couch, I want that room". And Dean kicking Sam out of his own room so his buddy would be comfortable.
lala2
# lala2 2012-12-04 19:09
Show has made it pretty clear that the Impala is DEAN's car. Sam can't do much more then drive it when Dean allows.
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-04 19:25
Sam is only tolerated to drive it when Dean is dead!

How many shows do you know of where a character has to wonder multiple times about how long another character is going to be 'dead' for and whether they can install an ipod jack.

For some reason that cracks me up :D
kaj
# kaj 2012-12-01 11:44
Hi sweetondean,

My brain has short-circuited and somehow end up with this : Quote:
As he said to Dean, “I know I can’t run anymore.” So he decides that he must face Heaven, what he did and the outcome of his actions. But Naomi has other ideas and zaps him out mid-sentence to tell him no…you can’t come back to Heaven. You’ve got to wonder why? Why does she need to keep him earth bound.
Let's turn around the perspective shall we. Earlier in the episode Dean said to Cas, "Listen to Sam" and while Sam gives speech to Fred Cas listens. Then he realize that he can't run but Naomi sabotage his intent to return to heaven. What if this also happens to Sam.

Imagine Sam who has decided early on that he can't run, he needs to look for Dean, then somehow his intent is averted over and over again by other forces, just like what Naomi do to Cas. What if what happens to Cas right now has happened to Sam a year ago.

Example :
"The rules are simple, don't take a joint from a guy named Don..."
Reveal : It had happened before with Sam by taking a 'joint' from supposedly dead Don

Dean taking two beer bottles and opens it and giving it to Sam. Weirdly it happen present time, why would this be called remembering?
Reveal : It happened before with Amelia's dad.

Dean's back from war-like zone Purgatory. Dean's supposed to be dead.
Reveal : It happened before with Don coming back from war. He was supposed to be back.

Sam's fixing the vents and fan
Reveal : It happened before that Sam has to fix the vents and fan of the motel.

Could be that we should see these FB as not a memory but if we place ourselves in Sam's place a year ago. These FBs are foreshadowing things that's gonna happen in future. Sam's not walking the memory lane but having a deja vu experience.

I had a dream of visiting some place that I have never visited before but since it was a dream I ignored it. Then, few weeks later I went to some place that looks exactly like in my dream. OMG I've been here before, in my dream. :D

Edit to add because I am on a roll :

This also explain why Sam knows that Dean's gonna visit Rufus' cabin. This also explain Sam's dialogue : "I don't have to Dean, I know it's you."
This also explain why Sam suddenly knows how to use the inverted exorcism because he was prepared before.
This also explain why Sam's so adamant to ask Kevin where is the tablet. Just like he knew before about it.
Also explain why Sam so concerns about Cas the first time he meet Dean because he has seen the sign about it before.

The FB is not merely a flashback but a clue for Sam.

Could it be that Sam's psychic Vision is coming back?

(maybe I should post this on the Let's discuss Sam's Flashback thread)
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-01 12:17
Oh yeah! You so should!
That´s pretty neat stuff there!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 15:01
Quote:

Edit to add because I am on a roll
OMG! You so are! My brain just exploded all over the place! See now I have no idea what's going on at all (I kinda like it)!

And yes...copy and past and pop this all over on the flashback thread because that's some great thinky thoughts!
Darya
# Darya 2012-12-01 12:29
First off, sweetondean, you blow me away with your reviews every week.

Every. Single. Week.

You just have such a way of stringing words together! I love reading about how you went full circle on the Sam theories- I’ve been doing that too! I love your explanation of Sam’s speech to Fred. It makes sense- every time he pulls away, he’s pulled right back in. He tried for normalcy, but he’s starting to see he might never get there.


I am pretty much on the Amelia is real side, but the whole thing with her father was just so crazy weird! And when you put together the dialogues between Amelia and her Dad- with most of the camera focusing on an exceptionally amazing-looking Sam- it sounds like Psychotherapy 101.

I had the “don’t take a joint from a guy named Don” discussion on Twitter (and here too)- is that a meta joke or Carver playing with us? I mean, first of all the similarity between the names Don/Dean is too much. Then the similarity of their story arcs are too much. Then the fact that their two, let’s say, dependents- Sam and Amelia, both torn-up by their absence, both finding solace in each other- that they both receive their, let’s say “other half” back at around the same time- WAY TOO MUCH. I mean, NO ONE can overlook this, right? I’ve been writing my whole short life, I’m an amateur, and I still wouldn’t overlook it. So please, please let it be going somewhere!


My brain has short-circuited completely with the Sam flashbacks and everyone’s theories! I read someone on Twitter fantasizing that it may be Sam himself watching Sam in the premiere- you know, pulling himself out of his pretty dream world-which leads me to wonder if the whole Amelia thing is a metaphor.


It’s like Kaj suggested above- Amelia loses Don, Sam loses Dean. Amelia runs, Sam runs. Amelia starts moving on, so does Sam. And then Amelia gets Don back, Sam gets Dean? Everything is so confusing this season. Right now, with the hiatus just one week away, it’s really frustrating me! I know the next episode will only lead to more anguish. But then, that’s typical with this show.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 15:03
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I read someone on Twitter fantasizing that it may be Sam himself watching Sam in the premiere- you know, pulling himself out of his pretty dream world-which leads me to wonder if the whole Amelia thing is a metaphor.
I love this with all my heart! I'm kinda pissed I didn't think of it! Now I'm going to go back and have a really good look at that shadowy figure.... :o
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-12-01 12:48
Hi sweetondean,A good review.Quote:
(By the way, I’m not talking about Dean and I’m not blaming Dean for pulling him back in either time, I think hunting is what he’s meant to be doing – no escaping it).
Don't worry we know :-) Quote:
Maybe this was Sam coming to terms with his issues with hunting. Maybe this was Sam realizing that, regardless of what he thinks he wants or what he once wanted, this life now, the life of a hunter,
I didn't like the maybe's before in Sam's story.I still don't like them.Even after the flashbacks there are still maybes even about the flash backs they show and i simply don't like them.Quote:
Sam’s a college dropout.
YesQuote:
A real fixer-upper.
YesQuote:
Sam’s a runner.
I am not going to believe this till they show us this.Quote:
The second their feet hits solid ground they start running and don’t stop, not 'til they find something to hang on to.”
Here, here, a new psychic is in town..I can get how the dad might have come to know Sam went through hell but he should be a psychic to say this statement.
I loved how Sam reacted when Amelia's father tried to be funny at the end,I loved he did not try to be all genial like he was.
The things which makes me watch the show is Jared's acting and the stories that they weave for eg i absolutely loved the premise of this episode.(I thought there might be a Tweety sylvester moment when i saw the cat). now a new thing has to be added to that.The thing is Amelia's husband's name is Don.
Any theories about Sam?Other than what i think the glowy feel to Sam's FBs is because they are nostalgia...I simply am not finding any excitement guessing as i am tired of guessing Sam's intentions and actions like I did in season 6 ( and that was fun but not now).I thought his "human" story as they are referring would atleast be coherent and in correct order guess i was wrong.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 15:09
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Here, here, a new psychic is in town..I can get how the dad might have come to know Sam went through hell but he should be a psychic to say this statement.
Yeah right? This is why the whole dad thing made me really suss...he's saying all this stuff to Sam and it's all the stuff Sam might be having doubts about (I don't think he's a runner by the way, there's way more to this than that), and just says it all out loud when he just met the guy.

There's some really cool theories in these comments about the FBs. I think it's interesting that you used the word "nostalgia" because now, after reading some of this stuff, I'm wondering if this past is really reflecting the present in some way.

I'm digging the mystery but I know you're not and I really hope that when it all starts to make sense, it comes together in a way you find satisfying. :-)
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-12-01 16:39
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and just says it all out loud when he just met the guy.
ExactlyQuote:
I really hope that when it all starts to make sense, it comes together in a way you find satisfying.
cross my fingers
E
# E 2012-12-02 15:18
I am in the camp of fans who are loving the mystery part of the Sam story, but I can understand why others are not. I think part of the problem with Sam being a mystery this year is that he was a mystery last year too, but the mystery went nowhere, so it was a big let down. We theorized and looked for clues and discussed possibilities, none of which panned out, because his storyline was not given that type of careful attention. I still believe that this is all building toward something, so I hope that those of you who are not enjoying the build up will at least be satisfied with the payoff when it comes. (if it comes, I hope I am right about this!!! :sad:).
kaz1
# kaz1 2012-12-04 02:21
I am not at all sure that Lucifer is off the map. Could Sam still have Lucifer lurking somewhere
Mieke T
# Mieke T 2012-12-01 19:54
Amelia's father is former military with some combat in his past, he makes that very clear. He actually says to Sam that he recognizes "the look" because he has been there. The look of someone who has seen traumatic things (as in war) and who runs as soon as his feet hit the ground. He is talking to Sam as a fellow soldier. Sam is the one with PTSD, as is Amelia as, at least at some point, is her father. I do not see a mystery there at all.

All of the stuff in Sam's flash backs is quite literal and completely connected to both the MOTW and the relationship stories. In a very sledge-hammery way in fact.

I think that we are all looking for clues and subtext because it is all so boring and detached and obvious. The Dean/Don thing, the dreamworld references, all of it. I truly think it is just clunky, sledgehammer metaphor.

Sam's speech to Fred proves that. It spells out the "moral of the story" so to speak. Amelia's father literally says that they are living in a dreamworld. And then the MOTW story is about living in a dreamworld and then Sam holds a speech about living in a dreamworld. Sam speaks of how a punch in the gut gets you to realize that that dream (for Sam that is wanting a regular life) is not sustainable and hurts people. Again, painfully obvious and literal. First Don comes back (I think that happened well before Dean returns btw, the FBs are clearly chronological) which is the punch in the gut of Sam's "dream" because now S&A now can't just be together, white picket fence, dog etc. which would also hurt Don. Dean coming back is another punch in the gut of the dream, because Sam running left Kevin in danger and Dean alone in Purgatory. The parallel in the MOTW story is that Fred lives blissfully unaware in his cartoon world but his punch in the gut is that people were getting hurt.

Every week the MOTW stories, the relationship stories and the flashbacks are very obvious and literal parallels. I think our confusion is due to some inconsistent writing and acting and I believe that we are filling in the confusion with subtext, intrigue and myth building that is just not there.

I do think that the angels had a hand in bringing both Dean and Don back, but that does not change what I said before.

If I am wrong and there is a massive conspiracy and complicated myth arc hidden underneath it all, then the writers and show runners and doing a very poor job building it. So my problems with the writing this season remain the same.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-12-02 09:25
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The look of someone who has seen traumatic things (as in war)
This you can say by how sam reacts in Day to day lifeQuote:
and who runs as soon as his feet hit the ground.
To know this it takes time .JMHO.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-02 15:47
Quote:
Every week the MOTW stories, the relationship stories and the flashbacks are very obvious and literal parallels. I think our confusion is due to some inconsistent writing and acting and I believe that we are filling in the confusion with subtext, intrigue and myth building that is just not there.
This may well be true (though I can't agree on the writing or the acting part), but I also think that it's something a lot of us who watch the show simply enjoy doing, over analysing and trying to sort through the elements the show has given us. Looking more deeply at the characters and why they are acting this way or that and what their story is saying. I really dig doing this, even though inevitably I'm wrong!

Even if this simply turns out to be as it is, Sam's flashbacks are as they seem on face value and there's no underlying mystery, I still find that fascinating, because for Sam, he obviously has to go through this, go through this discovery, this journey, in order to come out the other end as a happier hunter. Just as his brother had to go through a similar epiphany when left without Sam.

Carver has said, the brothers will always be the centre of the show and he's been true to his word. The bulk of our discussion this season has been centred on Sam and Dean, whether we're happy with the direction taken or not. Because though there is the angel/demon/tab let arc going on, it's the brother's relationship and what is going on with it and where Sam's at and how could he have walked away from the life and how could Dean have found a new buddy and trust a monster...all of these things that challenge the brothers relationship and our view of it and how we want it to be, is what seems to be captivating us the most - for good or bad. The brothers and their relationship is the main arc of season 8 as far as I'm concerned.

Carver also said season 8 will be about bringing the brothers closer together...I read that as bringing them back together because they haven't been close for several seasons. If Sam having to examine his life and his dreams and come out the other side realising that he's good with hunting and he wants to be with his brother, saving people, hunting things, day in day out, if that's all these flashbacks are designed to achieve, if that's what Sam's year was designed to do, I'll be a most happy camper, because at the end of all of this, that's all I really want, that the brother's be happy in this life that chose them and that they be happy together again. For me, I guess it just boils down to something that simple. :-)
Mieke T
# Mieke T 2012-12-02 19:43
This may well be true (though I can't agree on the writing or the acting part), but I also think that it's something a lot of us who watch the show simply enjoy doing, over analysing and trying to sort through the elements the show has given us. Looking more deeply at the characters and why they are acting this way or that and what their story is saying.

Maybe I wasn't clear, I enjoy that too, or I would not be here, commenting away :) I am actually quite desperately trying to find something to analyze about and delve into. In seasons 1-5 and even 6, there was amazing subtext, depth and foreshadowing for us to suss out and discover through analysis and repeated viewing. It is one of the main things I love about this show.

Even if this simply turns out to be as it is, Sam's flashbacks are as they seem on face value and there's no underlying mystery, I still find that fascinating, because for Sam, he obviously has to go through this, go through this discovery, this journey, in order to come out the other end as a happier hunter. Just as his brother had to go through a similar epiphany when left without Sam.

I am starting to see that one of my main issues is with the vehicle Carver chose for Sam's journey. I would have much rather seen Sam truly be alone, as he was set up to be at the end of Season 7. The Amelia character/story is just not cutting it for me. Someone below says that Sam's story can't possibly be boring if we are all talking about it. But that is a false premise. Maybe some of us are just unhappy and confused. I am seeing such a fundamental change in the show I feel so invested in that I feel the need to come on these forums and discuss it. I wish I could be persuaded to see it another way. I want so much to like this season, please!

But also, if all these "clues" really turn out not to be clues at all, aren't they proof of sloppy writing?

The brothers and their relationship is the main arc of season 8 as far as I'm concerned.

that's all I really want, that the brother's be happy in this life that chose them and that they be happy together again. For me, I guess it just boils down to something that simple. :-)

I agree that this season the main arc is the brothers' relationship. But to me part of the beauty of Supernatural is how these brothers represent this cosmic archetypal perpetual dichotomy. They are Cain and Abel, Luke Skywalker and Han Solo, they are the stuff of religions and ancient myths. Having two well adjusted happy brothers, happily hunting away every week may be what we would wish for these two men that we all love, were they real human beings, but in the Supernatural mythological universe, it would in essence be the end of the story.
Mieke T
# Mieke T 2012-12-02 19:44
Ugh, sorry. I tried to to the quoting thing and clearly did not do it right. Wish I could delete or fix it
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-02 20:14
Don't worry about the quote thing! I got it! :-)

You know, I think I keep being misunderstood on the whole happy thing. I totally need to find another word! :-)

I don't expect them ever to be happy in the traditional sense of that word, because they are the archetypal heroes, the kind that have to put their own happiness on the backburner to their calling. It's the whole with great power comes great responsibility thing. But I think there is a place for them to be ok with this life and their life together. They've had moments of that. I think that is something that could be achieved again. I never expect them not to argue and fight. They are very different people and siblings who live in each other's back pockets, there's going to be tension...if not from the past, then just from approaching things from different angles. I like that stuff too!

I guess this understanding and acceptance is where I hope they get to, or at least get closer to and where I hope/think we're headed. They've always fought, they've always butted heads, but they always keep moving forward and even with everything swirling around them, they always do it side by side, even now, it's part of why we love them so much and continue to root for them and why they take up so much of our brain matter! :roll:
PaintedWolf
# PaintedWolf 2012-12-03 03:14
Just want to say, that was a lovely comment, sweetondean. I think that's how I've felt, that this season is about bringing the brothers back together, and that they find that happiness in being together, back to "It's worth it, isn't it?", "Yeah, yeah, it is."
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-03 03:24
:roll: I truly believe that's where this is going....
Sharon
# Sharon 2012-12-03 03:29
Quote:
:roll: I truly believe that's where this is going....
No doubt that is what will happen because it must just as Sam ends up hunting because it must . If Sam's flashbacks and sl are just to get him back to what he was doing anyway and sitting next to Dean and all that comes with that then that is a tad disappointing but thats the premise of the show.
Michele Hughes
# Michele Hughes 2012-12-04 13:15
I agree, Sharon, I'd have preferred a less pedestrian storyline for Sam that would ultimately have the same outcome of him and Dean being content with each other again and having a strong bond again. I'm afraid I don't find Sam's year of domesticity at all interesting, so far :sigh: I would have preferred seeing the Sam we've been told about but haven't been shown i.e. the Sam who struggled with Dean's disappearance and who had his whole life changed in an instant and had to cope with it by himself.
lala2
# lala2 2012-12-04 19:15
Ain't that the truth? Last I checked - Sam had already decided he was a "hunter." Why tell a story about Sam that's already been told?
RMF
# RMF 2012-12-04 21:49
That would be my question. And it doesn't make a very persuasive case that Sam's true calling is to be next to Dean in the Impala if the reason he left his normal life was because of externally imposed factors, not an innate desire to hunt. His embrace of hunting was more positive the first time around.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 15:20
Quote:
The things which makes me watch the show is Jared's acting...
Oh I also meant to comment on this. You know, I was watching...funn ily enough..."Phant om Traveller" the other day (odd coincidence) and was thinking how both the guys have improved out of sight. I mean, out of sight. They have both become really fine actors. But it's even more pronounced with Jared and Sam. He's acting the hell out of it this season, I'm so enjoying his performance.
Grace232
# Grace232 2012-12-01 13:12
Thanks for this wonderful review. I also really liked this episode. Dean is back with his funny lines, and all the character work was great.

I must say, that this episode is making me re-think my theory on Sam. Up until this episode, I figured the whole Amelia story was real. Don't get me wrong - I also believed there was more to Sam's story between Dean disappearing and meeting Amelia, and that he had looked for Dean and come part at the seams a bit. But I took the flashbacks at face value.

I am now thinking maybe the whole Amelia storyline was in his head and he imagined it while having a ental break. Maybe Don is actually his psychiatrist. And - another new thought - the person watching Sam leave in "We Need to Talk About Kevin" was actually Sam! Maybe he was watching himself leave his fantasy, and when he shows up at the cabin, he is now living in reality and no longer imagining a life that does not exist, but still remembers the world he created for himself to cope.

Just a thought.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 15:11
Quote:
And - another new thought - the person watching Sam leave in "We Need to Talk About Kevin" was actually Sam! Maybe he was watching himself leave his fantasy, and when he shows up at the cabin, he is now living in reality and no longer imagining a life that does not exist, but still remembers the world he created for himself to cope.

Just a thought.
This whole Sam watching himself theory has blown my mind on this Sunday morning! I'm going to rewatch that episode today with eyes wide open! Thanks for your comment Grace!
Grace232
# Grace232 2012-12-01 13:14
Sorry for the typos!
Grace232
# Grace232 2012-12-01 13:31
And ANOTHER correction - sorry, I am an idiot- had the Don thing on my mind - I meant Amelia's father is the psychiatrist, not that Don is. I SO need to learn to proofread. Sorry everyone!
Izanamii
# Izanamii 2012-12-01 13:33
This episode was absolutely great. It really was. And I always love reading your wrap-ups because it's basically what I would say, or if there was something I missed you seem to point it out in a way that I can relate to, thinking wise.

I don't think Dean has PTSD either. He just took a bit to get oriented, and the flash backs of him in Purgatory were showing what happened, as Dean remembered it anyway, and also relating it to his thinking process top side. This is really great in my eyes, because it reflects the changes he went through in Purgatory. It also is really great that he came to terms completely with the hunter life by going through that experience. I love this Dean, the one where he knows what he's doing completely and knows he's doing all he can to help and that's the best he can do and he doesn’t beat himself up over it. He's a hunter and that's that, and he's comfortable doing it again. Of course, there may still be some moral issues but he hasn't showed those outside of Benny. That is a whole different topic entirely. Towards the end of this episode, I thought it was interesting how Dean watched Fred turn the gun on the doctor and let him do it. Now, the doctor was a bad guy and Dean really should not care, but he was a human being, and for some reason if he were still in the mentality of season five or the beginning of season seven, I could see him trying to find an alternative route to stopping him. Maybe that’s just me.

As for Sam, I think that Amelia and the dog and their relationship are all real. Like you said, however, he is remembering them differently because Cas had to show Dean what happened because he remembered Purgatory differently. There is definitely something more to the flashbacks, and they are taking their sweet time revealing what that is. Sam’s issues are always the most mysterious, and I know eventually they will show us what’s going on because if they don’t, the whole flashbacks and Amelia would be pointless other than trying to lazily and sloppily fill up Sam’s year away from Dean and I don’t think the writers would do that. It’s too vague right now, and they usually don’t keep things this vague, especially not something as big as this. If they did, they would get a lot of negativity thrown their way, I think. The déjà vu and visions/clues theory is definitely interesting, considering Sam is still one of Azazel’s “psychic children”. And we know that just because Azazel is dead, it doesn’t mean that whatever abilities Sam has have gone away. The fact that Sam said “I don’t have to Dean, I know it’s you” definitely left me thinking, because Sam would have been the first guy to try those tests on him, especially after we saw him when Dean came back from hell.

There are just so many theories with Sam, and I’m not sure exactly where I stand on that. The theory of Sam losing his mind again, and living in a dream world in some psychiatric ward could make sense. There was also the theory that Sam hitting the dog did happen, and that he did meet Amelia, but that was the extent of their relationship and the rest of it was put in place by Sam. This could ALSO make sense because of the relations Amelia and her father have to things Sam has experienced and the things he feels. Then again, now there are the angels, and Naomi, and she could very well have hinted Benny in the direction of the portal, and rescued Cas, and then brought Don back to force Sam back out to get back with Dean and into the hunting business because of the tablet. There really are too many variables and it’s all a train wreck of thoughts at the moment for me, haha.

This is my first time posting on one of these things, as I am new. So I’m sure those thoughts were all over the place and for that I apologize. I’m sure I missed a bunch of things I wanted to touch on buuuut I think I’ve rambled on enough. Baha.

On a side note, Dean in that dress shirt. Yes.
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 14:36
Quote:

......

There are just so many theories with Sam, ....and it’s all a train wreck of thoughts at the moment for me, haha.

This is my first time posting on one of these things, as I am new.
....
Hi Izanamii!
Great first post
I adore that.. "train wreck of thoughts".. That's EXACTLY what it is. :D
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 15:15
Quote:
This is my first time posting on one of these things, as I am new....

On a side note, Dean in that dress shirt. Yes.
Welcome Izanamii. What a great first post! Yes, train wreck of thoughts is a great way to describe how the brain is trying to work through what's going on with Sam Winchester!

And yes...I'm greatly appreciating the use of the white dress shirt this season .... the dress pants ain't half bad either. And these comments are always more than welcome on my reviews! :lol:
Daisymae
# Daisymae 2012-12-01 13:35
My head is about to explode too, thinking about Sam. I think I'm wedded to the idea that the flashbacks are NOT reality but a dream world Sam cooked-up to deal with his loss.The whole theme of this episode was about a dream world. Sam could have been in a mental hospital and now he's better. Amelia is real because Jared said she was, but she may not be who she seems.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 15:21
Quote:
Amelia is real because Jared said she was, but she may not be who she seems.
This is what I think. They had some kind of relationship, but just not the relationship Sam is remembering?
kaj
# kaj 2012-12-02 22:59
Quote:
This is what I think. They had some kind of relationship, but just not the relationship Sam is remembering?
This is what I think too initially when Heartache was aired. Could be that Sam did hit a dog and met Amelia the Vet at hospital and that's it. They met again at the motel because they lived at the same motel and Sam somehow managed to fix her sink and what not. Remember when Sam out of the blue just grab her fruits out of the plastic bag? Sam didn't know her at the time and for someone who is polite that's just rude. Like Sam's trying to be BFF when they only met once.

Perhaps Sam was just watching her from a afar but didn't dare to get close because she threatened him. Thus, Sam was imagining his relationship with her, Imagining that she was open to him. That's why we don't get to see what they were talking about (about Dean and DOn) because they never talked, It was all in Sam's head.

Sam's scene when he opens Amelia's online data looks suspicious, like he has done it often times before. Perhaps that's what he did during his year off. Watching Amelia from a far because he thought she was just like her and wanted to protect her. When she moved into her new house Sam too watched her from a far under the pretends of concern. He's actually stalking but he convinced himself that he's not. Denial, denial. Sam's conversation in front of the computer has been done many times during his year off.

This support the theory that the shadowy figure was actually Sam. he's watching Amelia outside his house and invented his own image in his head that he lived in the house with her when he truly was not. We saw Amelia opened her eyes because at the time she woke up and looked outside her window. That's when Sam left the house in his car.
Izanamii
# Izanamii 2012-12-01 13:46
She could be one of the orderlies at the hospital for all we know.
:|
hades
# hades 2012-12-01 13:50
Whoever said Sam's storyline was boring this year, a simple un-SPN like romance? Really? This is pretty much THE story so far this season, its the one everyone is talking and speculating about. Whatever the hell is going on here, I'm certainly intrigued. Carver has created one hell of a mind bender here.

Jared is acting the shit out of this season, I thought his soulless Sam and Lucifer were some of the best acting the show has ever seen but this season Jared's Sam is just WOW! He does and says so much with just a look or a gesture.

Not to mention Sam is looking so totally super fine this season, the hair, the clothes the beautiful everything. Jared keeps getting better with age.
Izanamii
# Izanamii 2012-12-01 14:03
I second this. In this episode, everyone looked so fantastic. And Sam's hair was glorious.

And I think he has been acting really well. They all have, in general, throughout the seasons, but in this episode I think they all stepped it up a notch. And Sam's story is definitely one that is going to be a bigger piece, along with Cas and his angel business. Which I think they will touch on a little down the road.

I also don't agree with the people that say that the Amelia, Don, and Sam "love triangle" is out of character for SPN. It hasn't even been established as a love triangle. From what I can see, Sam left because Don was back, regardless if the flashbacks are real or not.

And went on a tangent there. Bottom line: I agree. Haha.
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 14:38
Quote:
Whoever said Sam's storyline was boring this year, a simple un-SPN like romance? Really? This is pretty much THE story so far this season, its the one everyone is talking and speculating about. Whatever the hell is going on here, I'm certainly intrigued. Carver has created one hell of a mind bender here.

Jared is acting the shit out of this season, I thought his soulless Sam and Lucifer were some of the best acting the show has ever seen but this season Jared's Sam is just WOW! He does and says so much with just a look or a gesture.

Not to mention Sam is looking so totally super fine this season, the hair, the clothes the beautiful everything. Jared keeps getting better with age.
Yup. They are both improving with age! Looks and acting... Hot hot hot!
(They're the best kept secret in the entertainment world! Which suits me fine.... I don't wanna share! LOL)

Jared's doing great..as usual.... He's such a mystery this season (even more than prior ones)! He's got everyone wondering wtf!
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-01 14:48
Quote:
Quote:
Whoever said Sam's storyline was boring this year, a simple un-SPN like romance? Really? This is pretty much THE story so far this season, its the one everyone is talking and speculating about. Whatever the hell is going on here, I'm certainly intrigued. Carver has created one hell of a mind bender here.

Jared is acting the shit out of this season, I thought his soulless Sam and Lucifer were some of the best acting the show has ever seen but this season Jared's Sam is just WOW! He does and says so much with just a look or a gesture.

Not to mention Sam is looking so totally super fine this season, the hair, the clothes the beautiful everything. Jared keeps getting better with age.
Yup. They are both improving with age! Looks and acting... Hot hot hot!
(They're the best kept secret in the entertainment world! Which suits me fine.... I don't wanna share! LOL)

Jared's doing great..as usual.... He's such a mystery this season (even more than prior ones)! He's got everyone wondering wtf!
Yep, the visuals are definately there.. just the makeup...

I dunno... I´m not sold on that California Surfer Look ^^
It´s fits Castiel, it looks ok on Sam.. on Dean?
Not so much. Besides making him totally overtanned, it makes his face look flat.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 15:27
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Whoever said Sam's storyline was boring this year, a simple un-SPN like romance? Really? This is pretty much THE story so far this season, its the one everyone is talking and speculating about. Whatever the hell is going on here, I'm certainly intrigued. Carver has created one hell of a mind bender here.

Jared is acting the shit out of this season, I thought his soulless Sam and Lucifer were some of the best acting the show has ever seen but this season Jared's Sam is just WOW! He does and says so much with just a look or a gesture.

Not to mention Sam is looking so totally super fine this season, the hair, the clothes the beautiful everything. Jared keeps getting better with age.
Yup. They are both improving with age! Looks and acting... Hot hot hot!
(They're the best kept secret in the entertainment world! Which suits me fine.... I don't wanna share! LOL)

Jared's doing great..as usual.... He's such a mystery this season (even more than prior ones)! He's got everyone wondering wtf!
Yep, the visuals are definately there.. just the makeup...

I dunno... I´m not sold on that California Surfer Look ^^
It´s fits Castiel, it looks ok on Sam.. on Dean?
Not so much. Besides making him totally overtanned, it makes his face look flat.

Yup. They are both improving with age! Looks and acting... Hot hot hot!
(They're the best kept secret in the entertainment world! Which suits me fine.... I don't wanna share! LOL)

Jared's doing great..as usual.... He's such a mystery this season (even more than prior ones)! He's got everyone wondering wtf!
So not boring...it's the most I've theorised about Sam like, ever!

And yes...the visuals...I'm like this, it's almost code...the visuals are stunning this season, but I agree on the bronzer, it kind of suits Sam with his flowing locks and all but we should always be able to see Dean's freckles. ALWAYS. That should just be law or maybe lore.

I'm totally loving the mystery of Sam and Jared's really making it work. WTF is exactly right!
Mieke T
# Mieke T 2012-12-01 21:12
I agree that this is pretty much THE story this year and that is exactly the problem. We are halfway into the season and all we are is confused.

Mostly I think because we are trying to fill in the lack of depth with our own speculations since we are desperate to have it be more than meets the eye.

And also because I feel there is a lack of consistency in the tone and intent of the writing from episode to episode. I love Jared and he is doing some beautiful work with some individual scenes, but the writing for his character is so all over the place that I think it is showing in his overall performance. I find the acting in the flashback scenes stiff and awkward and mostly devoid of emotion and chemistry and I see a completely different Sam every episode, disconnected from what happened or how he felt or acted in the one before.
kaj
# kaj 2012-12-03 00:21
Quote:
And also because I feel there is a lack of consistency in the tone and intent of the writing from episode to episode.
Agree. 100% because I'm getting whiplash just watching different Sam each episode.

Quote:
I love Jared and he is doing some beautiful work with some individual scenes,
We can agree that Jared's and Jensen are superb in the acting department.

Quote:
but the writing for his character is so all over the place that I think it is showing in his overall performance. I find the acting in the flashback scenes stiff and awkward and mostly devoid of emotion and chemistry and I see a completely different Sam every episode, disconnected from what happened or how he felt or acted in the one before.
Not only in the flashback but in the few scenes of the real time too. Now, in regards of the Js acting that's always great, the way these FBs is presented seem to be hindering Jared's performance and resulting in awkward probably bad acting in few scenes because the acting that he delivers and the story that we perceive don't fit.

This is probably why we all here trying to come up with many theories to find answers because somehow we can't accept that Jared is just acting bad this season. There got to be something behind the plot that makes him have to act that way.

You of course realize that if these FBs is nothing more than what they are then I will be disappointed with the way Jared was performing this season. This storyline and the way the writers is writing it brought terrible impact on Jared's acting skill. i hope Jared realize what he's signing himself up for.
Michele Hughes
# Michele Hughes 2012-12-04 13:27
removing post as it didn't post all the text I wanted to include :sigh:
alysha
# alysha 2012-12-01 15:44
I'm perfectly okay with Dean not having PTSD. He was in a war zone, and although he may have memories that are unsettling, he also is a survivor. Many people return from warzones without lingering PTSD. So if Dean says he needed a few weeks to get it together, but he's okay now, I'm okay with that.

Sam's memories have me as confused as you. One minute it's real, the next a mental health breakdown. I think it's time that the powers that be tell us what's up!
Lynx
# Lynx 2012-12-01 17:32
Quote:
Maybe this was Sam realising that, regardless of what he thinks he wants or what he once wanted, this life now, the life of a hunter, is the life that will always chase him down and punch him in the gut and he can’t run from it any more. As much as the Winchesters are all about free will, there’s a great big dollop of destiny in their story as well.
This makes me really sad.
What you're saying means that Sam is stuck doing something he doesn't like, doesn't want to do, for the rest of his (probably short, since it's so dangerous) life with no hope of ever getting out.

He's lost everything, absolutely everything, multiple times, spent 180 odd years (if time in the cage works the same way as the rest of Hell) being torchered by Lucifer and Michael, which I assume he now remembers since as far as we know Cass only took his crazy, not his memories when he healed Sam. He's survived hallucinating Licifer and more than one major psychotic break, and is now realising, once again that he can never escape hunting.

I think, if I was Sam, right about now I'd be slitting my wrists.

Lovely review sweetondean.
I keep going round and round on Sam's FB's too. I really hope that Amelia and the relationship were real, just remembered in a romantised way, but there are lots of clues that suggest otherwise. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. :-?
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 17:37
Quote:


What you're saying means that Sam is stuck doing something he doesn't like, doesn't want to do, for the rest of his (probably short, since it's so dangerous) life with no hope of ever getting out.

He's lost everything, absolutely everything, multiple times, spent 180 odd years (if time in the cage works the same way as the rest of Hell) being torchered by Lucifer and Michael, which I assume he now remembers since as far as we know Cass only took his crazy, not his memories when he healed Sam. He's survived hallucinating Licifer and more than one major psychotic break, and is now realising, once again that he can never escape hunting.

I think, if I was Sam, right about now I'd be slitting my wrists.
:cry: That is incredibly Sad! I think I'd be right there with you! :cry:
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 17:54
Quote:
Quote:


What you're saying means that Sam is stuck doing something he doesn't like, doesn't want to do, for the rest of his (probably short, since it's so dangerous) life with no hope of ever getting out.

He's lost everything, absolutely everything, multiple times, spent 180 odd years (if time in the cage works the same way as the rest of Hell) being torchered by Lucifer and Michael, which I assume he now remembers since as far as we know Cass only took his crazy, not his memories when he healed Sam. He's survived hallucinating Licifer and more than one major psychotic break, and is now realising, once again that he can never escape hunting.

I think, if I was Sam, right about now I'd be slitting my wrists.
:cry: That is incredibly Sad! I think I'd be right there with you! :cry:
I think you're missing my point... I also said:

Maybe this is why Sam has gone through the same thing, the same search, the same desire to live out what he always thought he wanted, only to discover, that saving people, hunting things, the family business, that driving down crazy street, next to Dean is where Sam truly belongs.

I do think this is where he belongs. I think that he's been happy with his brother and the life, he's said it in the past, he has grown to be good with the hunting life and has become one hell of a hunter. But I think the trauma of losing Dean made him question everything and in questioning everything, it lead him full circle in a hope that his past desires would still bring him happiness. I don't see Sam as some sad person being played by destiny, I see him as a strong individual trying to make sense of a catastrophic loss the best way he could and I see him, through that and through everything he knows, coming to the conclusion that what makes him happiest is what's been sitting right beside him all along.

Both the brother's lives are tragic. That's what makes them such poignant heroes.
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 18:00
Quote:

I think you're missing my point... I also said:

Maybe this is why Sam has gone through the same thing, the same search, the same desire to live out what he always thought he wanted, only to discover, that saving people, hunting things, the family business, that driving down crazy street, next to Dean is where Sam truly belongs.

Both the brother's lives are tragic. That's what makes them such poignant heroes.
Ah gotcha. Should've re-read the entire thing.
What Lynx says is incredibly sad. I prefer your interpretation. ...
We all know Sam has to be in that seat next to Dean, but it ABSOLUTELY MUST be Sam's CHOICE to be there, otherwise, the poor man has simply sacrificed far too much....
Lynx
# Lynx 2012-12-01 18:08
I hope that's where this is going.
I guess that, at the moment, I just see how much he has lost, and I can't really see how he will ever come back around to liking hunting again.
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-01 18:09
I haven't really felt that Sam is serious about giving up hunting. Maybe it's just because we know he won't (even if that is the way next Wednesday's episode ends).

But he was right to try another type of life.
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 18:11
Quote:
(even if that is the way next Wednesday's episode ends).
Hush your mouth, girl! ;-)
NO WAY THAT"S HAPPENING! :D
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-01 18:17
you would prefer the other alternative where they have a big blazing row and Dean goes off with Benny like it's a high-school disco?

These seem to be our options :D
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 18:18
Deleted. Sorry. Being nasty to a character unable to defend himself.

Let's just say I want to go with option c.
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-01 18:23
There's a Plan C? The only person who ever had more than a Plan A was Soulless Sam!
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 18:26
Quote:
There's a Plan C? The only person who ever had more than a Plan A was Soulless Sam!
Ok so... Dean really did fail to get Death to replace Sam's soul,... And it all has been a dream from 6.11 onwards? It's Bobby in the shower take 2......
Makes about as much sense as anything to me, at the moment....
(Besides, I kinda liked Soulless Sam)
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 22:12
Quote:
you would prefer the other alternative where they have a big blazing row and Dean goes off with Benny like it's a high-school disco?

These seem to be our options :D
Can't everyone just hug it out and go for burgers? :D
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 22:15
Quote:
Quote:
you would prefer the other alternative where they have a big blazing row and Dean goes off with Benny like it's a high-school disco?

These seem to be our options :D
Can't everyone just hug it out and go for burgers? :D
Or Sam-salads? LOL! :D :-*
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 22:34
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
you would prefer the other alternative where they have a big blazing row and Dean goes off with Benny like it's a high-school disco?

These seem to be our options :D
Can't everyone just hug it out and go for burgers? :D
Or Sam-salads? LOL! :D :-*
You don't make friends with salad! :P
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 22:37
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
you would prefer the other alternative where they have a big blazing row and Dean goes off with Benny like it's a high-school disco?

These seem to be our options :D
Can't everyone just hug it out and go for burgers? :D
Or Sam-salads? LOL! :D :-*
You don't make friends with salad! :P
Salads aren't friendly? NOW you tell me. :(
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-01 22:43
Tell you what, if we see Sam eating burgers we'll know for sure there's something up with him.
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-01 22:48
You have no idea how difficult it is for me to resist trying to guess what a 'Sam-salad' might be...
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 22:49
:D :D Behave, eilf! :D
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-01 22:54
Who, me? :-*
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 23:47
Stop it you two! (Don't stop it!) ;-)
st50
# st50 2012-12-01 23:52
Yes ma'am!
(I don't think we could if we tried.)
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-02 00:17
Thank you, thank you, we're here all week, or at least until we get banned :D , try the veal
Darya
# Darya 2012-12-02 00:32
You guys! I should be studying and now you've got me shipping Sam-salad. I blame y'all for any inappropriate doodling in my answer sheets :D
st50
# st50 2012-12-02 17:24
Quote:
You guys! I should be studying and now you've got me shipping Sam-salad. I blame y'all for any inappropriate doodling in my answer sheets :D
:D First reading, I thought you said "inappropriate drooling", and I was going to ask why you thought drooling was inappropriate when we're discussing Sam and Dean. :oops:

It's eilf's fault. I'm the innocent party here. (Right, eilf?)
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-03 00:32
I have NO idea what any of you are talking about :-* I was just thinking out loud.... ;-)
kaj
# kaj 2012-12-03 00:31
Quote:
But he was right to try another type of life.
Yes, but it was not right to do it while his brother is gone under suspicious circumstances. Come on, the finale of S7 highly suggested that Dean's not dead. The way he was disappeared was odd. Any hunter worth his salt will investigate it at least.

But Sam didn't investigate it (As fas as we know he just ran) and give up and trying to immerse himself in other people's life.

I am all for Sam trying different kind of life. Hell, I don't begrudge him for leaving the hunting life and went to Standford because at the time Dean and Dad were still alive and as far as Sam knew they were hunting and protecting each other.

Even what we perceive in Heartache, for Sam to leave Dean alone in a hunt when he knew that hunting is dangerous and there will be no one to protect Dean's back is selfish. Sam's reasoning for leaving in S1 is more reasonable than S8. heartache is the worst episode in S8 because we hear Dean is offering an olive branch by saying that he is at his best driving along in the car with his brother. But Sam throw that olive branch in his face by saying that maybe Dean's happier to live alone and he'd rather go back to his dreamy, glowy life.

Sam could have taken that olive branch as Dean's way to start to mend things with him. Sam could've just ask if Dean ever consider of retiring with him. Because Sam doesn't want to see Dean die on him again and he had tried a life without hunting and it works. The life Dean led with Lisa before didn't work maybe because Sam was still in hell and Dean was feeling guilty to live happy when his little brother was in hell suffering.

"Don't you realize, Dean? Perhaps if we are quitting together it'll work? You always worry about me and I always worry about you but if we are together we are quitting together we can keep each other safe."
Amy
# Amy 2012-12-01 17:50
I love all these theories. I think the flashbacks Sam are having are blurry not because of nostalgia but confusion. I think the Angels Whammied him like Zachariah did in s4.

For Sam to settle down with a girl and a dog is completely OOC that's why Dean is so mad because he knows Sam would look for him and create havoc in his absence not retire. Sam had embraced his duty as a Supernatural solider since S4 he knows he will die hunting.

Sam would have gone after Crowley to destroy him. He would have searched for answers in any way he could think of even in grief.

What if the Angels Whammied him to get him out of the way until Dean came back they have a shared destiny and it is not fulfilled. I think it was an Angel outside the house in 801 making sure he went to Dean.

Kevin is a prophet and prophecy has to be played out in a certain way to come true. What if the Angels are making sure it does.
Shelley
# Shelley 2012-12-01 18:39
YES. To everything. I'm with you on the whole Amelia thing. I think she's real, I think she and Sam had a relationship, I just think Sam has romanticised the crap out of it in his head. Although, the thought crossed my mind that maybe they only met a couple of times, and Sam made up a relationship out of that? Like when we first met Amelia at the vet's, and she was a total bitch to him - what if that was it? What if that was their only interaction? I remember Jeremy Carver saying at Comic Con that this season was all about perception. Whatever it is, Jared is playing it beautifully.
I LOVED all the Cas moments, unsurprisingly :D I loved him going through whosever toiletry bag it was - Cas never quite understood the whole being human thing, so all that stuff must be fascinating to him. I adored the 'talk to me' scene between him and Dean. It was just gorgeous. The look on Cas' face when he said he was going to become a hunter just killed me! I loved the cat interrogation, but my favourite part was the end, when Cas stays with Fred and sits back, listening to Ode to Joy in Fred's head. He looked so peaceful and beautiful.
I grew up on Looney Tunes, too, so I really got a kick out of this ep! All this stuff that could end up going so, so wrong if any other show tried it, Supernatural just makes it work. I actually squealed and clapped my hands at the freeze frame of Dean, and the BANG flag popping out of his gun!
Thanks, Amy, for another awesome review! xx
Karen Graham
# Karen Graham 2012-12-01 18:40
I love Supernatural! Jeremy Carver and the writers are doing such a great job of bamboozling all of us :-?

Before reading all of the comments, I was going to say that I think the angels are behind all of it - telling Benny how to get Dean out of Purgatory, bringing Don back from the dead so Sam would be forced to leave Amelia (and actually having an angel watch over their house until he did leave).

I don't have any ideas about what the angels are up to, but we know they want the brothers together with Castiel keeping tabs on what they are doing. It has to have something to do with the tablets, I suppose? Damn, for a moment there, I'd actually forgotten about Kevin & the tablets (even though they were mentioned at the beginning of the episode). There just so much going on!

That was my original theory, but now, after reading all the comments and theories about Sam (and whether he has imagined part or all of his flashbacks, or if it's something to do with his psychic abilities), I'm back to being totally confused again :sigh:

Great review & great conversations! I've only recently discovered 'The Winchester Family Business' blog and love reading it & all of the comments. Thanks!
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-01 18:43
Welcome to the confusion :D It only gets worse from here on in!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-01 19:51
Welcome aboard our crazy train! :D
Karen Graham
# Karen Graham 2012-12-01 20:54
Thanks guys! I'm sure after next week (and during hellatus) it'll be much worse... with plenty to discuss :-)
st50
# st50 2012-12-02 17:18
Quote:
Thanks guys! I'm sure after next week (and during hellatus) it'll be much worse... with plenty to discuss :-)
Absolutely! Grab hold of something, because I have a feeling all our heads will be spinning after the next episode.
(Hopefully not a la Linda Blair! :-x )
Michele H
# Michele H 2012-12-02 14:18
I have a theory on the angels ... what if there's a tablet out there to fix Heaven in case Lucifer won the Apocolypse or something thing else (a well meaning, but misguided angel ...) decimates it kind of like hard reset. Kevin said something nice about the tablets being in case of emergency notes and there's more out there than just the two we know of. Now, Sam and Dean wouldn't trust any other angel than Cas and he probably wouldn't necessarily trust them either given any of their past dealings with the angels. So, it would make more sense to bring back the one angel the boys do trust and then make him tell you what's going on without his knowledge ... I'm not sure why Naomi won't let him come back to Heaven though unless it would complicate her plans somehow.
Martha
# Martha 2012-12-01 19:27
Wow, I loved hearing everyone's take on the great Season 8! I have a few thoughts on the matter as well:
1. I think Naomi and her angelic cohorts want Kevin, Sam, and Dean to find the tablets so they can be destroyed. If one tablet describes how to close the gates of Hell, there's probably another tablet describing how to prevent angels from coming to Earth.
2. Maybe Naomi and her pals want the apocalypse to be on track again.
3. Where's Meg?
4. When do we see the alpha vampire again? Will Benny wind up in his grasp endangering Dean and Sam?
5. I just love when they bring former actors back in new roles.
6. I also feel we'll know who "Don" is.
6. Can't there be just one episode where the boys wear T-shirts in one episode? Shirtless will do just fine too.
Gosh I love SPN!
Don't forget to keep voting for SPN in the People's Choice Awards!
Aly E Kirk
# Aly E Kirk 2012-12-01 22:08
This is all so very mind-bending, anything could happen, so many twists and turns. Good job Carver, you are really keeping everyone on pins and needles. I have to ask, did anyone notice that Sam's laugh seemed fake and forced? Like he had to make himself laugh? And I have to give my compliments to Jared Padalecki, he is doing an amazing job of showing Sam's sadness this season, and isolation, and depression. I sometimes feel like I'm the only that is noticing this. I want Amelia to be real, I really do, but then it just seems so terrible that Sam was so sad and lonely even with Amelia and the dog. I think Sam is only ever truly happy with Dean, and Dean is only ever truly happy with Sam. And I really agree with Dean not having PTSD, I can't believe people are diagnosing a fictional character with such a complex and serious mental disorder. I think Sam may have PTSD, but I just don't think Dean does. Okay sorry for rambling. SweetonDean such a lovely review as always. :)
Leah
# Leah 2012-12-01 23:04
Hi Aly E Kirk, I agree with you about Jared's acting this season. He is "kicking it in the ass" as Kim Manners would've said. I think people are definitely noticing his performance this year. I've seen it mentioned in several comments!! It's such a beautiful, sad and understated performance.
Izanamii
# Izanamii 2012-12-04 13:23
He is definitely doing a fantastic job. C:
If only Dean would notice that sadness and try to figure out what's going on like he did with Cas. Everyone's acting seems to have stepped up its game this season thus far. I just hope they reveal soon what's going on with Sam because people are going nuts!
Aly E Kirk
# Aly E Kirk 2012-12-01 22:26
This season is all about Sam realizing his place as Dean's brother, and hunting partner, it'll be SAM'S choice to go back to hunting. And I have a good feeling about next week's episode, and at the same time I am prepared to have built up my blacklist on tumblr, ahaha. I then were in for a huge fight, and then later on something(in episode 13) we are supposed to have an emotional, honest, and raw moment between the brothers. We haven't had that since Swan Song, where Dean gave his blessing to Sam.

As the great Kripke said: The show will always be about the brothers, other characters will come and go.

But were exploring this season that they can live without each other but they don't want to. :)
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-02 05:30
So I'm obsessing about that beer scene with Amelia's dad.

I keep noticing that all the bottles are turned so that the labels are facing the camera. When the dad hands Sam the bottle, he turns the label to face Sam. When the dad drinks from the bottle, the first shot the label is turned away, but when we see him again, the label is turned directly to the camera again. It has a horseshoe and a rodeo cowboy on it and what looks like the word Wyeth's (it's how it reads to me...but if someone else can have a look).

Now...this is probably some on-set in joke...I'm sure that's all it is...but you know, I googled it anyway...as you do.

It turns out Wyeth's produced one of the most widely prescribed drugs for the treatment of major depressive disorder and generalised anxiety disorder! The drug is Effexor now marketed through Pfizer.

Was Sam taking his medicine? :o

Haha! Look what this show has done to me!

Anyhoooooo....this is how I'm spending my Sunday evening apparently! As you were! :lol:
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-02 06:38
Quote:
So I'm obsessing about that beer scene with Amelia's dad.

I keep noticing that all the bottles are turned so that the labels are facing the camera. When the dad hands Sam the bottle, he turns the label to face Sam. When the dad drinks from the bottle, the first shot the label is turned away, but when we see him again, the label is turned directly to the camera again. It has a horseshoe and a rodeo cowboy on it and what looks like the word Wyeth's (it's how it reads to me...but if someone else can have a look).

Now...this is probably some on-set in joke...I'm sure that's all it is...but you know, I googled it anyway...as you do.

It turns out Wyeth's produced one of the most widely prescribed drugs for the treatment of major depressive disorder and generalised anxiety disorder! The drug is Effexor now marketed through Pfizer.

Was Sam taking his medicine? :o

Stretching, I know, but that's what this show has done to me!

Anyhoooooo....this is how I'm spending my Sunday evening apparently! As you were! :lol:
I´ve had this thought as well.

Especially with Sam´s strange behaviour. He is so mellowed out and unemotional in parts... disassiciated with everything going on around him and Dean...

Yeah, the thought crossed my mind, he´s on drugs ^^
st50
# st50 2012-12-02 10:28
Quote:
It has a horseshoe and a rodeo cowboy on it and what looks like the word Wyeth's (it's how it reads to me...but if someone else can have a look).
Wyeth's is, or at least was, a 'Family name in beer'.

http://www.amazon.com/WYETHS-Family-Name-Beer-Coasters/dp/B00A4NEJHI

So it might mean nothing.... But coincidence? In Supernatural? No, these guys know we watch the details. I'm betting it means something. ;-)

It also struck me last night on re-watch, just how many of Sam's flashbacks in this episode came right after someone was talking about dream worlds of a sort. I really think (hope) Sam is imagining at least some of these things!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-02 15:00
Awww nuts!

But.....the company started off as John Wyeth and Bro (brother was Frank). They sold beer extract to the Union army! They were chemists who marketed an extract of malt as "A pleasant and valuable nutritive tonic". They went on to become the drug giant now owned by Pfizer.

See what you made me do! I did research! :P

And yesssss on the dream world flashbacks!

Flashback 1 was after Dean said: "The guy was living a lie and it came back to bite him in the ticker."

Flashback 2 was after the orderly said: "Lot of these people tune out and live in their own heads, it's like maybe the real world is too much for them so they run and hide, you know?"

Flashback 3 was after Dean said about Fred: "Seems to me like the dude's living in a dream world."

Flashback 4 was after Cass said: "But I know I can't run anymore"

(Ring ring...Hello? Oh heys, your dead husband Don...the soldier...the one who died in battle...yeah.. .he's alive).

Ummmmm do you think we've all had an anvil dropped on our heads? :o

:lol:
st50
# st50 2012-12-02 16:59
Quote:
Awww nuts!

But.....the company started off as John Wyeth and Bro (brother was Frank). They sold beer extract to the Union army! They were chemists who marketed an extract of malt as "A pleasant and valuable nutritive tonic". They went on to become the drug giant now owned by Pfizer.

See what you made me do! I did research! :P
SORRY! :oops:
This show seems determined to try to edu-ma-cate us.
Silly show! :o

Quote:

And yesssss on the dream world flashbacks!


Ummmmm do you think we've all had an anvil dropped on our heads? :o

:lol:
I certainly FEEL like I have had an anvil dropped on my head. Can anyone say "migraine"?
Thanks Supernatural! :P
kaj
# kaj 2012-12-03 01:08
Quote:
I certainly FEEL like I have had an anvil dropped on my head. Can anyone say "migraine"?
Thanks Supernatural! :P
I have migraine ever since Thursday. LOL So, we're back on the 'Sam in a psychiatric hospital" theory?
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-03 01:41
Quote:
I have migraine ever since Thursday. LOL So, we're back on the 'Sam in a psychiatric hospital" theory?
Nah...I think he's out and about and Amelia is real and all that...I was just having a slow Sunday night I think! :lol:

But I do think that all the discussion of dream worlds made him think about what was his "dream' life... and facing real life... maybe... GAH! :o
aelaine
# aelaine 2012-12-02 06:39
Thanks for the write up sweetondean !

I loved it, wasn't sure if it was going to work,but it did and added some poignant scenes too, poor Sam and Cas...
About the beer label,and drugs, I supposed but I don't see Sam taking meds unless he was like a situation like last year,but hey this is SPN, anything could happen, Effexor is known to cause vivid dreams for some people, usually violent ones. I think Amelia's dad is just like you said, Sam's unconscious talking to him. Amelia's dad may be real and didn't like Sam, but maybe Sam put words in his mouth. I think he had something with Amelia that he is remembering idealize then turning bad. One question that has puzzled me is why was Amelia so scared after her husband death? Why would people pity her, feel bad for her yeah, but something else is going on there, was Don a mean person? Did he have a run in with the supernatural and become a hunter and left, not enlisted and left? But told her that he was hunting in the military. I don't know!
Amelia does not seem Sam's type,at all I wonder just how they will all come to meet, I feel sure Dean will be there and be all confused. I think Dean knows something is up with Sam and is not bringing it up, but I guess it will forced upon them just like Dean will be forced to face Benny and Sam. I don't think we will get any good answers till January, sigh, maybe a few more questions and some brother suspense leaving us hanging, oh what hell they put us through,althoug h I will forgive them if the payoff is good enough, I mean they have to start off on the new myth arc soon, so they got to get this out of the way! Or st least start to get it resolved. don't they?, I sure hope so!!!!!!
aelaine
# aelaine 2012-12-02 06:50
Now this admission really is sad ha I slept to late this morning and was half awake have asleep and had been re-wathing season 8 and reading here before I went to bed. So I wake up because I was dreaming all of Sam's memories were all Not Real and but even my sleep cold not resolve it lol so I woke up pissed! I have got to stop getting so immersed in this! :lol:
Yes and will have to admit that the pretty was going pretty strong for all of them this episode Hope Dean keeps his slightly longer hair!
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-02 06:55
Quote:
Now this admission really is sad ha I slept to late this morning and was half awake have asleep and had been re-wathing season 8 and reading here before I went to bed. So I wake up because I was dreaming all of Sam's memories were all Not Real and but even my sleep cold not resolve it lol so I woke up pissed! I have got to stop getting so immersed in this! :lol:
Yes and will have to admit that the pretty was going pretty strong for all of them this episode Hope Dean keeps his slightly longer hair!
hrm... dunno about Deans hair.

I definately prefer it short as in real short ^^
aelaine
# aelaine 2012-12-02 08:51
longer on top, don't like the real short for myself but hey he usually keeps it pretty short.I take him either way, not complaining!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-02 14:34
Yep, I'm with you aelaine. I dig Dean's hair a bit longer on top like it is now. I love how it sticks up a bit at the front...it's kind of Tin Tin-ish, but you know...sexy! :lol:
Izanamii
# Izanamii 2012-12-04 13:25
I definitely agree. I wasn't digging the long in the back and on the sides. Not that it looked terrible because I really don't think Jensen could manage that, but it just looks way better this way. :B
aelaine
# aelaine 2012-12-02 08:49
please excuse the typos !
Aly E Kirk
# Aly E Kirk 2012-12-02 15:37
I really hate the fact that E!Online released a spoiler saying there will be a love triangle of sorts with Amelia/Sam/Don and the woman who released it her name is Kristin gets her spoilers wrong most of the time. A love triangle? I don't see Carver, or anyone on Supernatural doing that.
E
# E 2012-12-02 20:52
Or maybe it will be a 'love triangle' Supernatural style... just like Ruby was a 'love interest' for Sam Supernatural style or Dean became a father Supernatural style. This show is famous for turning all of the common tv tropes on their heads. I won't mind what actual storyline comes along for either of our guys as long as the style of it fits within the supernatural universe and is well written. I mean, this show wrote in a suicidal, seven foot tall teddy bear and made it work, I am sure that they can get a love triangle to work too.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-02 20:55
I bet it's something unexpected. And man, I love that teddy bear!
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-03 12:17
That cloud of stuffing makes me laugh every time! Also when the little girl gets her toy bear back and it has a plaster cross on its head. There is clearly something wrong with me...
E
# E 2012-12-04 18:23
It's Ted E. Bear
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2012-12-02 16:12
Thanks for the great review. This episode brought up so many questions about Sam's year. I keep racking my brain thinking about it. I really think Amelia is real and that she and Sam had a thing, but as with most people here, I don't think their relationship lasted any longer than maybe that one night at the hotel. Sam's flashbacks are getting more and more fuzzy, like scenes from an old television that the colours are being washed out of. Thanks for pointing out that Amelia's father might be a total fabrication of Sam's subconcious mind, I hadn't thought of that one, but it makes perfect sense.

I enjoyed this episode tremendously. All the conversations between Dean & Cass, Sam & Fred, Sam & Amelia's father, it was just perfect. A very well written episode & I liked the director. I know he's knew to SPN, but he did a really nice job, hope to see his name here again. And yes, Sweetondean, a happy Dean is always so much fun to see. ;-)
Sharon
# Sharon 2012-12-02 16:30
SweetonDean I dont think Sam will ever be a happy hunter , he will come to accept hunting as his life because his dream will always in the end prove elusive to him a spanner is always thrown in the works in one form or another but I dont believe he will ever be truly happy with hunting.
st50
# st50 2012-12-02 17:13
Quote:
SweetonDean I dont think Sam will ever be a happy hunter , he will come to accept hunting as his life because his dream will always in the end prove elusive to him a spanner is always thrown in the works in one form or another but I dont believe he will ever be truly happy with hunting.
Aw, Sharon. That's sad. If hunting is to be the life he accepts, his destiny, then it really needs to be the life he wants, ultimately.
(Please, writers? Figure out how to make Sam happy. All these guys deserve to be happy with their life, however short it may be).
Leah
# Leah 2012-12-02 17:57
Or at the very least, secure in the feeling that this is what they want to do with their life and embracing that feeling of purpose. Dean seems to be there now (again). Sam will get there. Ongoing happiness, though I wish it for the boys, does not seem to be in the cards. To get back to their enjoyment of being together and working together would be an improvement.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-02 18:15
Yeah, I guess that's what I mean by happy too Leah, embracing the life, finding happiness in the fact that they save other's lives and enjoying being and working together. I think that's the most they can ask for. Once again, it's part of what makes them such epic heroes.
Leah
# Leah 2012-12-02 20:37
I remember Eric Kripke commenting on one of the DVD's that they were "tragic heroes". I've always had that in the back of my mind and thought that it was a foreshadowing of the end of the series. :-(
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-02 20:45
As long as they're together...I can cope with it...I think.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-02 18:18
I believe Sam can and will find some happiness in the life Sharon. I can't see him forever being at odds with it. But he's a hero and part of being a great hero is that conflict of desire vs responsibility.
Vanda
# Vanda 2012-12-02 18:16
Totally loved this ep! It was delightfully adorable, and very reminiscent for my child hood as I too grew up on Loony Toons. I kept wanting to see the little birds flying around Deans head when he was hit with the frying pan, but I guess it was a copyright thing.

Loved Cas being a part of the hunter team in this ep. His lines were gold.

As for Sam I think that his fling was real & not in his head. Great stuff again Amy, & as always, you covered all the angles! :)
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-02 18:36
Oh V! I thought exactly the same thing...I wanted little birds to circle his head!
E
# E 2012-12-02 21:38
Hi Sweetondean, Great review. I love your attention to detail. I am with you; my head is spinning with all of the possibilities, and not just with Sam either. Dean seems to be in a pretty stable place at the moment, and we have found out a lot about purgatory and how he got out etc.. but I don't think we are done with all of that just yet. Jensen said in a recent interview that all of the plot threads come together later on in the season, so we should be getting more there later on in the season.

About Sam... Sammy, Sammy, Sam. I am so confused. I was pretty sure that there was something going on under the surface, like a deal that he made, or was in a coma somewhere etc.. but, now I am just not sure. I don't think that Amelia and his 'normal' life is a fabrication any more, mostly because all of the info points to Amelia being an actual person and not a figment of Sam's imagination. Another theory is that the entire season up to this point is taking place in Sam's head, but I don't want this to be true either, because I want Dean's purgatory story to be real. I am going with Angel intervention, at least for the moment. It's clear that the angels are messing with Cas at the very least, so who's to say that they aren't messing with both Sam and Dean as well? I did have a thought that the angels have helped to create this world Sam is living in to try and deter him from looking for Dean. The only problem is in why wouldn't they want Sam to find Dean? Why keep Sam waylaid for a year? The reason that I have come up with for believing that the angels have given Sam his make believe world is because he keeps saying things like "I found something" and "I ran" etc. but it's like he doesn't even believe what he's saying... like he's been programed to say these things. Sam has been pretty much gung-ho for the hunt since season 3, so in my mind this sudden turn around is just that, sudden. Maybe the angels were stalling him for some reason. When they were ready for him to become active, they sent in nearly dead Don to get him moving again. Maybe Dean is being manipulated too, but we haven't seen that part of it yet; Benny could be a product of angel manipulation.

I guess my issue with Sam's perfect normal world is that it's so awful. He seems so incredibly unhappy there. He and Amelia are two damaged people hanging onto one another in desperation rather than affection and because neither one of them has anyone else to turn to. People in his perfect world tell him hard truths he doesn't want to hear and confront him with all of his insecurities and failures. THIS is what Sam is longing for, what he told Dean that he wants to return to? I don't buy it. It's more like jail than an idealized life. I think that the angels have been building a plan and put Sam into this idealized world and told him it was everything that he's always wanted, keeping him occupied until they were ready for him. It prevented him from looking for Dean for whatever reason, and causes him to be inconsistent in what he says and does. That's where I am until the next FB comes and destroys all my theorizing!!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-02 23:45
Quote:
I guess my issue with Sam's perfect normal world is that it's so awful.
I agree E...if these are his memories of the year, they aren't all that nice really, which is another reason they are interesting and possibly the point. The dream life doesn't live up to the dream?
E
# E 2012-12-03 09:40
"The dream life doesn't live up to the dream." Exactly!!! Nicely said.
Tiny
# Tiny 2012-12-03 02:26
Great review Amy! Great episode but I want more Looney-ness!!! Like Space Jam!

I don't think Sam's year with Emilia was an illusion. It'd be like Sam being played by Lucifer again. I think what they had was 'real', just didn't work out. I was really expecting the whole Sam/ Emilia thing to be not vanilla, but it so is. I get it, I respect it but I don't have a lot to say about it. so, nice details in your review about Sam.

I love Cas in this episode. I love the whole Dean and Cas dynamic. I think this is the Dean Cas needs -- the pep talk was awesome!

I can't wait for next episode -- can't wait to see all the drama with Sam and Benny!!!
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 11:06
It's Monday, and I'm yoyo-ing again.
I'm back to taking the flashbacks at face value... Sam tried to have a normal relationship and it punched him in the gut...
If it wasn't for the funky lighting, I'd probably accept that until shown otherwise...
But hey, tomorrow's Tuesday. Pig 'n a Poke.
:D Alrighty. I'm putting the Sam issue on the backburner...
Back to worrying about Cas and Naomi. And this week we get to fuss over Benny, and what Dean's going to do about him. lol
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-03 11:46
Quote:
It's Monday, and I'm yoyo-ing again.
I'm back to taking the flashbacks at face value... Sam tried to have a normal relationship and it punched him in the gut...
If it wasn't for the funky lighting, I'd probably accept that until shown otherwise...
But hey, tomorrow's Tuesday. Pig 'n a Poke.
:D Alrighty. I'm putting the Sam issue on the backburner...
Back to worrying about Cas and Naomi. And this week we get to fuss over Benny, and what Dean's going to do about him. lol
Or what Sam is going to do about him... and Dean.
And what not?

What if Benny is innocent, but Martin wants to do him in anyways and Sam steps up to defend Dean and Benny?

What if?
So many possibilities.
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-03 12:12
Quote:
It's Monday, and I'm yoyo-ing again.
I'm back to taking the flashbacks at face value... Sam tried to have a normal relationship and it punched him in the gut...
If it wasn't for the funky lighting, I'd probably accept that until shown otherwise...
Maybe Sam just needs glasses? Maybe that is why everything looks blurry. See, new theory! I don't see why you should be the only one around here who is not confused! :lol:

I would love to think that the confrontation between Dean and Benny plays out just between Dean and Benny! Wonder how it will end, I am all for:

No fight with Sam
No killing of Benny
No killing of Martin
(I agree with sweetondean, why can't we all just get along)

I like Martin a lot - that conversation between him and Dean where they are both crazy and scaring each other (in Sam, Interrupted) is absolutely hilarious:

DEAN: Crazy is the clue.

MARTIN: You said that. What?

DEAN: I mean, the things that me and Sam have done, the stuff that we've seen, we're gonna end up going guano eventually. Probably end up like a couple of drooling nut bags. (realizes what he's said) No offense.

MARTIN: None taken.

DEAN: But me and him, freaking out on the same day? I mean, it's gotta be...

MARTIN: The monster...

DEAN: (freaks, looking around for it) What? Where? Where? (ducks down at the side of the bed)

MARTIN: No--It's not--No, there's nothing there.
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 12:17
Quote:


No fight with Sam
No killing of Benny
No killing of Martin
(I agree with sweetondean, why can't we all just get along)
Bahahaha. You two are funny! It's midseason! Not gonna be happen!
They are not going to leave us with the 4 of them heading out for beers together.
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-03 12:22
Aw that would be adorable! A beer summit!
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-03 12:28
Quote:
Aw that would be adorable! A beer summit!
Not going to happen...

My guess is...

Dean kills Martin, Sammy is pissed.
Or.. Sammy kills Benny... and Dean is pissed. (and beats up Sammy)
Or, Martin kills Benny... and Dean is pissed. (and beats up Sammy)
Or.. Benny kills Martin.. and both are kinda miffed... but heck...

PS: That awkward fangirl moment, when you remember Christopher Heyerdahl is Thor Heyerdahl's Nephew and you want a stranf of his hair, just to say, you own something, that´s shares some genes with his uncle ...

Totally random, I know. :-*

Ignore me. Job is a bitch right now and I´m a little stressed ^^
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-03 12:35
I think it is the last option. And then we have a moral dilemma for Dean.

So I was waiting for a Citizen Fang thread but I want to know why it is called 'Citizen Fang' is it a take on 'Citizen Kane' and if so why?

Nobody currently on the show is a rich and mysterious mogul - but two older people are (or at least appear to be rich) - both of whom are vampires - Benny's sire (who we don't know for sure is dead) and the Alpha vamp. Do we think it might be one of those?

Actually Benny's sire would get great pleasure out of setting Benny up so that Dean kills him!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-03 12:39
Quote:
So I was waiting for a Citizen Fang thread but I want to know why it is called 'Citizen Fang' is it a take on 'Citizen Kane' and if so why?
OK.....give me a minute! I'll get the preview up soon! :-)
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-03 12:43
Sorry for implied impatience :D It wasn't intentional.
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 12:44
Quote:
I think it is the last option.
That's where I am.
No beer summit. Although I may just have to have something like that all by myself.... Yup... I'll be drinking for all 4 of them. lol
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-03 12:45
Don't like beer..gin?
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 12:47
... Sure... (Rummages around)... got some gin here somewhere....
It's probably rum for me. Would be beer if I was in Europe. German beer... the good stuff. ;-)
(Sorry! Off topic again, damn it)
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-03 12:51
Ta. Got any tonic?
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 12:54
Ew. Ah. No. You'll have to get your own, there. Sorry.
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-03 12:57
Quote:
Ew. Ah. No. You'll have to get your own, there. Sorry.
Hrm... beer...

Oh wait... my stomach doesn´t do beer.

So, the German sticks with Scotch ^^
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 13:00
Fluffy, no. Seriously???
Have you tried your own beer? (Not the stuff imported to the US, but actual German beer in Germany?) :P

Never been much of a scotch fan, myself. But hey, I'm usually up for anything!
Beer, wine, or rum. My standards. (Wait. Maybe we need an AlAnon thread for this season. :D )
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-03 16:42
Quote:
Fluffy, no. Seriously???
Have you tried your own beer? (Not the stuff imported to the US, but actual German beer in Germany?) :P

Never been much of a scotch fan, myself. But hey, I'm usually up for anything!
Beer, wine, or rum. My standards. (Wait. Maybe we need an AlAnon thread for this season. :D )
Yeah seriously. I have trouble drinking anything fermented, that doesn´t include loads of honey ^^

Distilled is fine though.
And yes, that includes every sort of German beer.
American is ok though... because it´s basically just water ;)
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-03 13:00
Comes to something when we are all drinking BEFORE the episode...at least it was after the episode last time!
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 13:03
Quote:
Comes to something when we are all drinking BEFORE the episode...at least it was after the episode last time!
I tell ya. We're all gonna need AlAnon by 8.23!
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-03 13:06
Alice could we have a drinking-to-for get-the-pain thread please? Where we can go to compare local ways of forgetting it all.

Though, apparently, joining the French Foreign Legion works...
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 13:15
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Alice could we have a drinking-to-forget-the-pain thread please?
Gosh no. There are so many active threads these days, my poor brain is having trouble coping even when sober.
(leave it there, eilf. No need to comment. ;-) )
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-03 13:15
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Ew. Ah. No. You'll have to get your own, there. Sorry.
Hrm... beer...

Oh wait... my stomach doesn´t do beer.

So, the German sticks with Scotch ^^
The Australian likes beer! :D
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 13:18
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The Australian likes beer! :D
Yay! Bottoms up!
Oh. :oops:
PaintedWolf
# PaintedWolf 2012-12-04 05:28
I'm loving these, er, serious discussions guys. I've had this local drink called Amarula before post-intense-SP N-episodes. I found it worked out quite well since the bottle came as a gift along with a set of edible chocolate shot glasses, so I think it worked quite well...
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-04 05:31
You had me at edible chocolate shot glasses...
PaintedWolf
# PaintedWolf 2012-12-04 05:36
Yes, I'll admit the glass ones don't really hold up anymore in comparison.
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 12:45
Kon-Tiki fan moment!
Yes!
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-03 12:52
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Kon-Tiki fan moment!
Yes!
YEAH!

Archeonerds united!
^^
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 12:53
:D
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-12-03 12:55
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:D
Another awkward moment.

You look at a skull and think "Guys, I can see, that´s a fake"
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-03 12:40
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Maybe Sam just needs glasses? Maybe that is why everything looks blurry.
BEST.THEORY.YET ! :D
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 12:42
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Maybe Sam just needs glasses? Maybe that is why everything looks blurry.
BEST.THEORY.YET! :D
:D YES! The complete NERD look for Sammy. 8)
eilf
# eilf 2012-12-03 13:01
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Maybe Sam just needs glasses? Maybe that is why everything looks blurry.
BEST.THEORY.YET! :D
:D YES! The complete NERD look for Sammy. 8)
Sometimes the simplest solutions...
st50
# st50 2012-12-03 13:16
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Sometimes the simplest solutions...
...are the sexiest?
I'd agree there. :-*
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-12-03 12:26
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It's Monday, and I'm yoyo-ing again.
I'm back to taking the flashbacks at face value... Sam tried to have a normal relationship and it punched him in the gut...
Must be a Monday thing, because I did exactly the same! I'm back to, it was all real, it's just what he had to go through to discover, like his brother did, that the dream he'd been hanging on to, even if subconsciously, is and will always be just that, a dream which has no place in his reality. Though I figure he'll probably think about giving it one more stab before he comes around and accepts (on his terms) that riding next to his brother down crazy street is where he belongs.

But you know...it's already Tuesday for me so.... :P
shsh33
# shsh33 2012-12-03 16:09
i realized that when i watched the dean and cas scenes those scenes used to belong to dean and sam. the character castiel has totally overtaken sam’s role in the show “supernatural ”. the scene between cas and dean in the hotel room was straight out of s1-s3. and the writers even thru in cas wanting to sit in sam’s spot in the impala. is this deliberate by the writers to show just how far apart the brothers have grown?
Sharon
# Sharon 2012-12-03 16:28
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i realized that when i watched the dean and cas scenes those scenes used to belong to dean and sam. the character castiel has totally overtaken sam’s role in the show “supernatural”. the scene between cas and dean in the hotel room was straight out of s1-s3. and the writers even thru in cas wanting to sit in sam’s spot in the impala. is this deliberate by the writers to show just how far apart the brothers have grown?
I dont know to be honest I am not really sure why we have had the boys at odd's this season and tension between them but I am not a writer . But you werent the only one to notice :-)
Hades
# Hades 2012-12-05 09:20
I have noticed but I expected this to happen, Jeremy Carver is a big Dean and Cas fan so any chance he gets to have them together I think he'll take it. Honestly I dont care how many better brothers Dean has, I dont place the same value on the so called bond as many others do, I just wish Sam had someone to talk to, a friend, someone to be a brother to him. I dont begrudge Dean his family outside of Sam I do think the writers, a lot of fans and Dean however do begrudge Sam the same.
Amy
# Amy 2012-12-05 17:28
This This this!!! I would give up the Dean/Sam 'brotherhood'in a hot second if it meant Sam could have a brother/friend who is a true brother/friend for him.

And he wouldn't even rub it in Deans face. :)
kaz1
# kaz1 2012-12-04 03:16
I am remembering at scene in S4 when Sam says he hopes that they 'can go back to what they were' and then in S5 when Dean says things can never be what they were. Yet I feel they sorted things out so i have hope they will do again
Mieke T
# Mieke T 2012-12-03 16:43
Love the "Sam needs glasses" theory! Thanks for a good laugh, I needed it! Oh and also quite a nice visual in my head now of Sammy with glasses, hmmmmm.

One quick question I wanted to get all of your reaction to, don't think I have seen it mentioned yet.

When Sam and Amella first start being friendlier, he says something to her about her being all alone and not having anyone. But she has a father! And a cranky, but supportive one who she clearly has a loving relationship with (favorite childhood dishes, stories about going to dance recitals) I can't square that with the premise as it was set up.

This is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts. If it is not on purpose then it is very inconsistent writing. What do you all think?
hedi
# hedi 2012-12-04 08:42
I read your review Amy and like always it was amazing. a great looking on everything about the episode which I adore it about your reviews. About your theories of Sam being dreaming and all , I do think , He probably have spend some time with her and she does exist and it's not an imaginary friend becuase no matter how much of a mess Sam is , He is old enough to not have an imaginary friend! I also think , amelia's dad wasn't that much complex as you and some of the guys said. in my point of view , he was like those kinda of fathers who are so protective of their kids and because he spent some times in Army so that would explain why he had hard time trusting a tall-good looking guy! :) That was it. He looked totally normal to me , he was being harsh sometimes on Sam , i give you that, but a girl - a mess like Amelia , probably would have a father like him. and you mentioned he was a recycled actor from 1x04 and I do remeber him as well , but if what you're saying is true and sam made him up because he knew him from his past , then i think it should be a person whom Sam didn't have a good time with. as far as i recall , this guy was John's friend and he didnt do any harm to either of the boys. he was a nice guy , at least to sam. I'm saying if sam is making these things up , why he would picture someone as annoying as Amelia's father with a vision of John's friend?! It's a little odd, don't you think?! After all , it's all my opinion ! maybe you guys are right , i don't know. i just wanted to say this!
and that rubbing hand thing...I noticed it the second time i watch and hmm..It could be something , but i don't think they pay that much attention to last season's details ! IMO. maybe jared was just trying to rub the soap off!? :D
thank you again for my joyful review!
hedi
# hedi 2012-12-04 08:56
Oh my ! I wrote "my joyful review" !! sorry about that! :D
FMJemena
# FMJemena 2012-12-06 05:31
"One thing I really hope is that it wasn’t Don lurking in the shadows in the opening episode..."

-- actually, when I saw that shadow, I immediately thought of Dean because the profile and body looked like his. Unless the director run out of extras to do that job, so he tapped Jensen.

Thanks much, by the way.