Ouch. That smarts. This episode made my stomach hurt. Then I realised I'd eaten a whole box of Anzac cookies out of nerves! So maybe the tummy ache was too much sugar. But the heartache was certainly Winchestery.

I'm not much of a fan of Adam Glass, he's a patchy writer whom for me, has seldom delivered and consequently, I have little faith in him. Garth is a character that I've not been enamoured with. He's been too clownish and two-dimensional. He's been comic relief and I wasn't interested in him in any way in either of the episodes he was featured in (neither of which I particularly liked). But, both of these things changed with "Southern Comfort".

For once I think Adam Glass got a good deal right. It wasn't perfect, there was a little too much procedural goings on for my liking, the spectre story at the centre was a little"¦.meh and rather heavy handed in its parallel between the Winchester brothers and the two waring brothers on opposing sides of the civil war, but then, the spectre story wasn't the real story was it? The brother stuff, which I feel Glass has failed abysmally at in the past, was what elevated this episode and had me, well, eating too many cookies out of angst! I found the brother stuff to be right on the money.

Garth. Garth was a little breath of fresh air. I liked his sincere attempts to emulate a man he obviously loved and respected. That he stepped in to fill a roll, left empty by the death of Bobby, in support of his hunter community. He got a lot wrong. I laughed every time Dean corrected him. That's not how you wear the hat, say balls, use idjit. But in the end, I think Dean saw that where Garth was coming from, was honest and heartfelt and he wasn't trying to replace a man that Sam and Dean care about and miss deeply. This Garth can come back, not too often, but I'd be cool if we saw him again this season. He's smart and sensible, sweet and perceptive, gives good advice and is so trouble free that he could pick up that penny. That was my very favourite part. Oh, and he's a hugger. Naww.

So yeah, I enjoyed this episode a lot more than I expected to. I was very pleasantly surprised to say the least. For me it continued what I think is an epically good run of strong episodes and a rocking start to season 8. It was as painful as hell in parts, but it was that good pain that I kind of like, because I'm weird like that.

So let's get to it huh? Those ghost hunting bros.

It makes my proud of this show that 8 seasons in, I can still get so upset over the emotional struggles of Sam and Dean Winchester. That I'm that invested. That I'm still there with them, exploring their relationship, their issues past and present, their individual characters and the differences between them. That they can still infuriate me to the point of very bad language, but that I can still see through my frustrations to their love and to my love of them. Both of them. It's got to a point that they pretty much need a Sherpa to carry their baggage, but I'm willing to help them lug it and hopefully watch them unpack it and toss some stuff out as the season progresses. Geesh, I think I over did that analogy!

I've been waiting for this blow-up"¦for a few seasons actually. It was TIME! There's been so much unsaid and shoved down deep between the brothers. There's so much they haven't dealt with and all of that crap is affecting what's happening in their world right now. Neither has told the other much about their year apart, even if they think they have, so they're both in the dark and muddling their way through this latest murky emotional terrain and doing a piss poor job of it I might add!

Sam says to Dean that he's been straight up with him from the jump and told him why he didn't look for him. But has he? Has he really? No. He told Dean he found something, something he's never had before, which to Dean means I found something better and I chose that over you. I'm not saying in any way that's how Sam feels, you all know my ideas around Sam this season, lord knows I've pontificated enough on the matter, but Dean is a bundle of insecurity who has always felt like everyone leaves him and that he's not worthy of love. John Winchester has a lot to answer for (I really must get on that new thread about him). Even right back in "Skin", the shifter inhabiting Dean's fine form said, "Sooner or later everybody's gonna leave me." I don't think Dean's thinking on this has changed. I think he's still terrified Sam will leave him. So Sam saying, "I found something" doesn't cut the mustard. What he should be saying is what he said to Amelia, "It felt like my world imploded and came raining down on me and I ran." This is what Dean needs to hear. This and more. I applaud Sam for telling Dean Amelia's name and that they lived together. Good. That's a start. But that's still not letting Dean know that HE was missed and that it messed with Sam's head. That's what Dean needs right now. He needs that reassurance that he's still important to Sam and that he wasn't forgotten and simply left behind.

I'm not just picking on Sam. Dean hasn't told Sam anything about his year either, so how's Sam supposed to understand. It's bitchy to say "I highly doubt you get anything about Purgatory" when you haven't offered anything. But I get that, it's Hell all over again and who wants to rehash that kind of pain, but Benny is another issue. He hasn't told Sam why he's friends with Benny. He hasn't told him Benny saved his skin more than once, or that he also saved Castiel. He's said he wouldn't be topside without Benny, but he hasn't explained the hows and whys. Sam's been open to monsters being friendlies before, right back to season 2's Lenore, so it's not like if it was all lain out for him, he wouldn't be open to it.

Dean's tirade under the influence of the spectre lacked resonance for me because it was just that, under the influence of the spectre. Bummer. The spectre caused white-hot rage, so we don't know to what level his feelings were enhanced. I don't doubt that Dean still has issues around the whole Ruby thing and Sam being back for a year without telling him thing"¦though I think any anger over anything Sam did when soulless needs to be let go of immediately, even if the hurt can't be. I think these are things we all know he's hung on to, but do I think that he believes what he said about Benny being a better brother than Sam ever was? Absolutely not, which, for me, is what casts doubt over the true nature of everything else he said. I think Sam has proven his love for Dean, just as Dean has proven his love for Sam and I think they're still proving it. In the past, they've both been there for each other over and over. The fact that Dean is so hurt by Sam's actions while Dean was in Purgatory, proves how important Sam and Sam's love is to him. This kind of anger is born of love. The worst and truly hurtful arguments are ones you have with those you love most. I don't think Dean would say any of that stuff if he wasn't possessed by a spirit or something "“ whether that's good or bad I can't decide. It's a bit sad that he needs to have that kind of push to open up I guess. But then as I said, we can't be sure to the level of amplification of those emotions. Obviously they're there, but are they there to that extent? I mean, Mrs Lew was pretty surprised her husband's highschool fling was brought up all these years down the track. I'm not sure that the feelings that made her kill her husband were feelings she was even aware of. Which makes me wonder if these are feelings Dean's not even aware of? Hmmm. Next time Dean lays it on the line, I'm hoping it just comes from inside him and not because of some supernatural influence.

So, though all sorts of other crappy issues were raised up by that damn penny, the two that are at the heart of the matter are the two from this season and it's the brother's lack of sharing of their individual experiences that has got them to this point. I think, when you look at both of these issues, it may boil down to one thing for both brothers, Sam feels Dean is choosing Benny over Sam, Dean feels Sam chose a girl over Dean. Dean has issues around abandonment and his own self worth and Sam's always worried his brother couldn't love him and would only see him as a monster because of his demon blood. It's not about jealousy it's about insecurities and I think both the brothers are currently playing into each other's dysfunctions astoundingly well. Nice job boys.

For me the only bit that really irked me was right at the end of the brother's fight outside. Sam had every right to tell Dean to stop rubbing his face in "the year off" and get off his "high and mighty." Dean was continually getting in his little jibes and that can get old real quick, but Dean said, "Ok, I hear you" and it should have ended there. But Sam had to say that line about Benny and flare the whole fight right back up again. I literally yelled at my TV. I know he was hurt and over it and all, but It was just"¦ugh. If he really needed to say it, he probably could have framed it better. Dean said he killed Amy because he knew Sam couldn't. Whether that's true or not, I've long ago stopped caring. Amy had killed, four times that they know of and Dean put her down and he says it's because Sam couldn't. Fine. If Sam had not phrased his statement about killing Benny through narky anger, maybe it would have been taken in a different way. He could have said, "Ok I get it, if he messes up, you won't be able to kill him, so if it comes to it, I will."  But you know what, no, because in reality, he should have just left that one at Dean's "Ok, I hear you" and given Dean a chance to prove that maybe he did hear Sam instead of throwing Benny all up in Dean's face again. It was like; I gotta get in the final word. I don't care how frustrated he is with his brother, to me that undermined everything Sam said to Dean prior to that. I think Sam's way more of an emotional mess than Dean at this point and he's way more angry. To be honest, outside of Dean's rehashing of stuff while being inhabited by the spectre, I'm kind of at a loss why Sam is quite as angry as he is. I get why Dean is up in arms, but surely the Benny friendship is not the worst thing that Dean's ever done. It seems odd for Sam to not at least have a little leeway with that one. He just seems angrier about it than he should be. I guess it's more about the lie, or maybe Dean was right, maybe he does blame Dean for dragging him back to the life"¦if not the first time around, maybe he does this time around. 

This fracking Amy thing man. When will it end. The only good thing about it is that at the end of all this, I'll be able edit together all the uses of the name Amy and make it into my ringtone! Silver lining.

Neither of the brothers is a saint and neither is sin free. I don't point the blame at either of them for past choices and by the way, I loved that that word was used in this episode, "Choices." They live in an extreme world and they can't always make the right call. They are very different individuals who have always approached things from different angles and who have always wanted different things. Their flaws, of which they both have plenty, is what makes them so very beautiful. It's because of their flaws we love them more right? 

The bottom line here is about communication and they've always been shite at it. Obviously nothing's changed but then, how much do we really change once we get to a certain age and who ever really tells the complete truth to family members, or is that just me? Who amongst us hasn't omitted something because we know someone isn't going to like it, or it's going to hurt them, or change how they see us, so we bury it? These guys are like everyone else as far as I can see, it's just, this is a TV show, so it's amped up!

I don't mind the conflict if I feel it can help them move forward. I wish Dean had remembered what he said, but then, he could always get Garth on the blower and ask him, though Dean being Dean, I think he'd rather forget. I don't think this is the last of this kind of "˜conversation' they'll have, I don't think it's going to be put on the back burner, I think this is the first step in bringing these guys to a more healthy, grown up place, towards accepting each other's choices, mistakes and differences. I think we'll see more of this before it gets better. It feels like it's just the start. It feels like this is the first chapter. Let's just keep airing those grievances boys, though I better make sure I'm stocked up on cookies!

If I could sit these two in a room, this is what I'd say"¦

Dean, you need to let this stuff go. Yes, you've been hurt, yes you've been disappointed in the past by Sam's actions, but your brother is still here by your side and he obviously loves you, so why don't you look at that, instead of everything else.

If you want to know why he took a year off, why he didn't look for you and he's not opening up, damn well make him. Say, "Ok Sam, explain it to me, tell me what happened." Then"¦LISTEN. If Sam doesn't want to tell you, well then, you have every right to be pissed, but instead of just feeling abandoned and angry, ask him"¦.maybe you'll understand, maybe you won't, but you'll never have a hope in hell of understanding unless you hear the story and if Sam's not going to offer more than he has off his own bat, then you're going to have to ask him to open up.

While you're at it, tell Sam about Purgatory, tell him all the stuff he doesn't know. That you were alone and on the run from every monster in the place until you met Benny. That the vampire saved your hide more than once, that you might not have survived without him, that you'd never have made it out without his help. But beyond that, he proved to be loyal to you, even looking out for Castiel. That Benny was a friend to you when you were in desperate need of one. That yeah, it's weird that you're pals with a vampire, you get why Sam's baffled and mad, that it seems like double standards, but Benny opened your eyes to the possibility that not all monsters are evil, everything isn't black and white and that Sam should be happy that you're learning that lesson. If Sam still doesn't understand or still won't try to understand, you have every right to shut down on the subject"¦.but if you don't at least try and explain it, well you don't have a leg to stand on against Sam's confusion and fury. Maybe you'll get through to him"¦.you won't know unless you try and he won't understand unless you explain it. (PS....you're smokin' hot...whatchya doing later).

Sam, I know you were devastated by the loss of your brother, but Dean doesn't. All you've told him is that you found something and it was a girl. All he's hearing is you found something better. You know your brother. You know his insecurities. You know he fears that everyone will leave him. You know that that's how he's seeing this. Right or wrong, that's who he is and after all this time, you should know that. So, don't just tell your girlfriend, tell your brother that your world imploded on itself and rained down on you when you lost him. Tell him how you felt, tell him you ran, you were lost, you didn't know what to do. Tell him about how meeting a kindred spirit helped you find your way back to the world, that with her, you no longer felt scared every day. That you understand Dean's hurt, but you just couldn't see the hand in front of your face for a good long while. Dean loves you above anything else, maybe he'll see the pain that his disappearance caused and it'll help him understand your state of mind and the choice you made. But you HAVE TO TELL HIM. You haven't.

And stop threatening to walk away, because that's just freaking Dean out even more. You have every right to want something else and I get that you want Dean to understand and appreciate that and be prepared for the possibility that you won't always be riding shotgun with him, but by threatening to leave him out of anger, you just exasperate an already volatile situation. Those threats just validate Dean's fears of not being loved enough, of not being needed enough. You're a bright and empathetic boy; use that big brain of yours. (PS...do you think I've got a shot with your brother).

Sam and Dean, you boys, you've been through more than should be asked of any human being and you've been through it TOGETHER. You obviously love each other deeply; otherwise you wouldn't be able to push each other's buttons so effectively. But you've never, ever been able to really talk. Here and there, little pieces have leaked out and been shared, but by and large, you bury everything until it explodes outward. You can't expect your brother to understand how you're feeling if you don't tell him. You can just say, "He's my friend" or "I found something" and expect your brother to understand unless you give these statements context, history and reason. Just"¦.be the amazing men I know you to be, be the brothers I know you are. Tell each other the full story, because only then can you be justified in having any expectations that your brother should or could give you some slack and empathy. But above all, stop the lip service when it comes to each other's choices. If you don't "get it" don't say it, if you don't forgive, don't say it. Everything rings hollow when you say one thing, then say another in anger. Stop it. And please, truly forgive each other, you both deserve it.

Now get out of here and go be awesome. Idjits.

I'm confusing reality with "Supernatural" again aren't I?

(By the way, I love that photo of them in the diner. Look at their elbows. They're touching. Now, I know logicially this is because Jensen and Jared are big units and they need to squish in close to both fit in frame, but the forgetting that part of me goes, if I was hating on my brother, I wouldn't be sitting that close to him! Reality/Supernatural.... yeah I know).

We really are in a spot of bother with these two aren't we"¦but I kind of like it. Don't hate!

I guess my biggest fear is where this is going, that both boys will be forced to make a choice, though me being me, I'm confident that they'll choose each other. It might look a bit touch and go for a while, but ultimately Dean will always choose Sam and Sam will always choose Dean. Just call me sweetondean, the eternal optimist.

So I dug this episode a lot more than I thought I would. It was hurty goodness. I enjoyed, if that's the right word, all the brother's angsty scenes. I'm glad they're starting to get some stuff out. Sam has finally lain out how pissed off he is to Dean. Dean, unknowingly, let Sam know that his choices have affected and continue to affect Dean. Maybe something clicked in one of them, even in just one, that'd be a step in the right direction. I even got a bit more of a sense of what drew Sam to Amelia. It was the conflict scenes that had me though. The final scenes of the last two episodes have been absolute corkers. It's good stuff.

So what did you think? What's next?

Don't forget we have some new commenting guidelines around reviews. So please continue to comment and share your opinions and theories about the episode here, but if you want to take the discussion in a different direction, try out the new "Let's Discuss" threads. There's some great chatter going on over there! And if you have a specific topic you'd like to start a thread for, shoot us a note via the Contact Us page!

Until next time just remember, we're "Supernatural" fans, we're Tonka Tough!

Now hurry up next episode!

Thanks for reading!
-sweetondean

Comments  

Vanda
# Vanda 2012-11-10 00:08
So far this season I see this one as my favourite. I loved so much about it. I found it gripping. The intensity & the emotion just had me begging for more... Bring on next week!
aelaine
# aelaine 2012-11-10 01:35
Great review SweetonDean! thanks. I agree with your review and your advice to them both, your words to the writer's ears. This was one of my favorite episodes so far, seems like they are getting there, hopefully soon they will have a talk, we will just have to wait, as painful as that is for us and for Sam and Dean! I agree about Garth but I want the Real Bobby back!! Cas is back next week, he is sometimes good in getting to the bottom of things, maybe he will help them get there, and have a few surprises of his own!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 01:40
Thanks aelaine! Yes, I'd like Bobby back too....
Cass is going be able to share more on Purgatory! I think there will definitely be some surprises! More information! I'm excited about that!
aelaine
# aelaine 2012-11-10 01:44
Ha! that is what I hoping too, you know he seems to just blurt out the truth sometimes lol could get interesting.
@Sb10110
# @Sb10110 2012-11-10 02:07
Again ! Amy, you know inside out of these two characters.
I love the episode. but the ending told us that the problems between them are not yet over as we want to be and move on. After all the explosions Dean had. Sam still not really clear to tell how he felt when he think he had lost his brother! Love to know more about Garth. He's lovable. But sure the things between our boys still there! Will see how it ends Thanks again always love to hear your thought.
Annaliese
# Annaliese 2012-11-10 02:24
Once again, great recap!

Although I agreed with you and dislike Sam's harsh words at the end of the episode I am inclined to think this gave the brothers 'realness'. In that, how they spoke, got emotional and said all the wrong things is exactly how we (the audience) act. I can't think of how many times fights with close friends and family have gone in this direction. I also think about how sometimes it it needs to happen before things can get better and the relationship can move on. Actually I think I'm in the middle of that right now with a good friend.

For me, I am getting rather sick of the flashbacks particularly Sam's. Not because they're bad but because I would rather find out this information as they are telling one another.

I am super excited for the next 3 episodes which are apparently only going to get better and better... Like you said Amy, this episode sure feels like chapter 1.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 02:31
You know, I agree, it was all anger and emotion and that happens, I wish it didn't just then....but it did and I also agree that it's part of the moving forward. Hopefully!

Yes, I'm actually finding, for the first time in a while, the wait between episodes is acutely painful because I NEED to know what happens next!

Thanks for your comment!
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 05:32
Sweetondean"ete rnal optimist"-Thank you for being so.
I am nearly always in complete agreement with your take. I didn't love this episode and I thought the pot definitely needed stirring. But not like this. I just cringed at the spectre scene because I knew some fans would take it literally and would use it to justify the growing tide of 'Dean doesn't love Sam and hasn't for a long time' stuff. My veiw of the spectre scene is exactly as you stated and have been all over the threads trying to say that Dean did not mean all that he said especially the "Benny has been a better brother" part. That the underlying hurt influenced his lashing out at Sam but some just want to believe that those are his true feelings (rage included) and that they may lead to Dean harming Sam. Very sad. I know they have a TON of baggage but I will continue to have faith in their love and ability to ultimately find their way back to each other. And faith in the show to protect the bond these characters have. Overall I think the season has been very compelling so far and am still looking forward to every episode.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-10 07:18
Those WERE Dean's true feelings though. The spectre didn't give Dean those thoughts. Dean clearly has not forgiven Sam for a lot of things, and he is definitely angry about Sam not searching for him. Given that Sam's (whacked, OOC) actions are so upsetting to Dean, why wouldn't he have positive thoughts about Benny and see him as a better brother than Sam in this moment? Why wouldn't he be doubting Sam's love for him or their bond?

I don't know why people are so quick to deny anything that paints Dean in a less than ideal way. Just like Sam took a hit for his words in S&V and Asylum, Dean is taking a hit for this.

Did you not think Sam was speaking the "truth" in S&V and Asylum? I thought he was. Those were his true feelings at the time. Those were thoughts Sam had. Just like Dean resents Sam now, I thought Asylum highlighted how much Sam resented Dean for always obeying John's orders and never choosing his own path. Am I happy that some part of Sam saw Dean as pathetic and weak? Heck no, but I'm also not happy that Dean resents Sam for SS, which was completely out of Sam's control, or that he's still upset about S4's transgression.

These possessions, spectres, sirens aren't making Sam and Dean have thoughts they don't already have. They just amplify the feelings and cause people to voice them. If we are to see Sam and Dean as "real" people, then they will naturally have "bad" thoughts. No one is positive and happy all the time or never thinks anything negative about another person so why should Sam and Dean?

What bothers me about S&V and this past episode is that the words are too harsh and really dismantle an already broken relationship. Did Sam really need to "boo hoo" Dean's Hell experience? No, I don't think so. It made me feel like Sam was listening to Dean, but subconsciously thinking, "Oh, just get over it already." I don't know. That entire speech bothered me and was never properly addressed. Here, was it absolutely necessary for Dean to bring up every bad choice Sam ever made, including ones he didn't make (i.e., SS) or ones he was thought to have atoned and been forgiven for, to make the point that Dean was upset about Sam deserting him? No. Was it really necessary to throw out there that Dean sees Benny as a better brother than Sam's EVER been? No. But they did, so what am I supposed to think? How am I supposed to feel about the brothers' relationship now?

To me, the show takes it too far. This relationship hasn't been consistently solid since S1-S3. The last time things were good btw Sam and Dean was the second half of S6. Someone somewhere mentioned how you can't keep putting Humpty Dumpty back together, and they likened the boys' relationship to Humpty Dumpty.

At this point, I don't know why the boys are traveling together. They don't seem to like each other all that much. Watching them is painful. They have no banter, no fun, no joy, etc. They never share a good laugh or a good conversation. There's only resentment, guilt, and anger btw them. It's not fun - for me - to watch the show anymore w/the boys in this dismal place they've been for years now. Their relationship has taken too many hits for it to feel "real" to me that they still travel together. I find it wholly unbelieveable that after Dean's revelations that Sam just got in the car. I also find it wholly unbelievable that Dean doesn't just drop Sam off somewhere. They don't want to be together.

Sadly, Carver has brought me to the point where I don't car if they're together. The bond is gone anyway.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 11:28
Just to be clear, I never said Dean didn't mean any of the things he said. I said he didn't ALL of the things he said. Sorry for repeating myself over and over but the feelings that he did have were magnified a thousand fold and filled with hurt and rage. Yes of course he feels a lot of pent up issues brought to the fore by Sam not looking for him (no judgement by me of Sam here) but there was a certain amount of highly amped "you hurt me and I hurt you back" in play. As was the S&V confrontation. I do feel it seems that Sam doesn't want to hunt. I get and respect that. I refuse to buy the notion that Dean does not love his brother. I refuse to buy that he REALLY feels that Benny is the better brother or that he will harm Sam in any way or choose Benny over Sam ever!!! They, neither of them, are having their finest moments IMO and they will put put Humpty Dumpty back together eventually with each having a better understanding of the other. Yes I am excusing Dean somewhat on this as I excused Sam in S&V. I love both these guys and do not see the relationship as beyond redemption as so many of you want to believe.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-10 12:04
Okay. We can agree to disagree then b/c I do think that at this point in time, Dean may feel like Benny is a better brother to him than Sam. Dean is incredibly disappointed and hurt by Sam's revelation that he didn't look for him. I can't really blame Dean for feeling that way. I would feel that way. If we're honest, Sam hasn't told Dean anything that would make Dean understand Sam's decision. He just said he no resources and thought Dean was dead. It's a very weak explanation (weak writing), so I'm not surprised that it's not satisfying to Dean.

Given that Sam wasn't happy when Dean returned, immediately told Dean he didn't want to hunt w/him, told Dean he never looked for him, tried to convince Dean that Dean would love hunting alone combined w/all the other resentments Dean has been harboring about Sam - it makes perfect sense, to me, that Dean may feel like Benny is a better brother to him or that Benny has his back in a way Sam never has. I don't like it, but I can understand it.

I don't like when the writers take it this far b/c I see it as further dismantling the brothers. And I see no point to writing these harsh words if they weren't meant to be seen as true on some level. Anyway, that's how I feel about. It seems like you're enjoying the show so that's good for you :-)
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 12:27
Yes lala, I have no problem with that. I guess that where I am coming from is that things said in anger and in this case super amped up rage are not a true indication of how someone really feels. How many of us has lashed out and said hurtful things that we didn't mean. I didn't like this either as it muddied the waters so much. The only thing that gets me frustrated are the' I told you so' comments by some who feel Dean hasn't loved Sam for awhile. Dean is feeling closer right now to Benny I agree.
Sharon
# Sharon 2012-11-10 12:41
I dont believe Dean hasnt loved Sam , it is abit more complicated now though. I understand when hurt we lash out and if Dean had lashed out about Sam not looking I could of understood that to a point but he didnt he brought up resentments from 4 yrs ago clearly they were something that never went away for him , he brought up Soulless Sam , the more the anger went on the more came out.

I dont doubt this was all designed to amp up the whole brother stuff but it was too much IMO in what they had Dean say.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 13:11
Some do though, Sharon, and I agree it is a lot more complicated than that. What they had Dean say and the way it was said caused a lot of anger in some comments and didn't serve to help the situation between the brothers at all. Dean doesn't even remember so how can the healing begin?
hades
# hades 2012-11-10 20:11
Quote:
Some do though, Sharon, and I agree it is a lot more complicated than that. What they had Dean say and the way it was said caused a lot of anger in some comments and didn't serve to help the situation between the brothers at all. Dean doesn't even remember so how can the healing begin?
even if he did remember how could there be healing?
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 20:48
I feel there will be healing at some point in the future. I don't things are beyond hope. But if there is no communication how can that happen? It has to start somewhere. Yes, yelling will ensue but undertanding will eventually happen IMO. I'm sorry you don't feel that way but I do.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-10 12:50
I understand, Leah! I guess I feel the opposite can also occur. In anger, one can also say something he/she wouldn't normally say if they weren't angry. Sometimes, the truth can come out in anger.

I do think the boys will survive this, so I don't think you have to worry about that :-)

I'm not sure if what Carver has planned will satisfy me though, but I definitely think S/D will come together by the end of the season. How real or believeable that feels will depend on the viewer, I guess.
Sharon
# Sharon 2012-11-10 05:44
Well yes we can hide behind the Spectre and say they 'werent Dean's true feelings' not that I believe Dean would deliberately harm Sam but neither do I believe that the Spectre was doing the talking for Dean.

The simple fact is those feelings had to be there for the Spectre to latch on to. It was a scene I would rather they hadnt done but Dean had to vent in what they considered a safe way by using the Spectre and thats what they did.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-11-10 06:11
Quote:
The simple fact is those feelings had to be there for the Spectre to latch on to.
I agree, the journal was very clear that it has to be what resentments the possessed feels now not what resentment the possessed felt before or even forgotten.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 11:41
My problem with that is that the people who were killing each other were doing so with minor or long forgiven issues. One of them killed another over PAPERWORK! I don't think anyone is denying that things were in their minds that the spectre latch on to, I just saw them as twisted and magnified for the spectres pleasure. Otherwise the spectre wouln't be evil, would he? He would be just passing on thoughts in peoples heads.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-11-10 12:38
But clearly the issues might have been minor but they were neither forgiven or forgotten.This is where i disagree.For the lady it was that blemish on the other wise happy life...like that irritating but small stain on a pristine wall...The son still had that resentment towards the guy...The deputy on being relegated to do all the table work..the last one i did not get (waiting for Robin's rambles).The difference in how you and i saw was you saw as Dean issues being magnified and i saw it as the diminishing of all of Dean's feelings for Sam to an extent that only the resentment remained.Kind of like Sam without his soul.Dean might have resented Sam but it was not in forefront.They have experienced so much together for that to happen..but the spectre created a situation so that only the grievance remained.It was like the woman felt all that she felt what she felt at prom but also she felt nothing else for the man her husband
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 13:25
Agreed, I have said in some previous comments that the the spectre fueled rage completely overpowered any of the more rational feelings Dean has about Sam. That includes love and family bonds.
Kim
# Kim 2012-11-10 07:06
Another smashing review. I love how you are able to see more depth to the confluct, which I fully agree is there. Something quite telling from this ep was that Sam didn't meet Amelia until a few months after Dean vanished. I wanna know what happened in those months -did Sam have some kind of breakdown? What?

For me, the jury is still out on Garth. Admittedly he was better in this ep than the last two he was in, but I still can't quite bring myself to see his worth as a character. I didn't mind him trying to fill the hunter go-to gap left by Bobby, but I felt he was trying too hard to BE Bobby, and that didn't sit too well. Maybe watching the ep a time or two more will change my perspective somewhat.

Oh, and if Dean is nervous about taking you out I'd be willing to make a sacrifice and double date with Sam, because, issues or not, he's still smokin' hot.
E
# E 2012-11-10 08:36
Nice Sweetondean! You have great insight, and I enjoy reading your reviews. I just wanted to respond to your take on Garth! (Yeah, weird considering how much is going on with the boys). I feel the need to defend Garth a little bit. I think some fans are being pretty hard on him as a character, and as someone who didn't warm up to him right away, I was glad to see your take on him here. I liked Garth from the start pretty much because of how much of a non-hunter, non-Gordon type that he was. It's refreshing and against typical hunter stereotype. He's a little bumbling, somewhat awkward, often inappropriate and yet strangely affective as a hunter in many ways.

Some fans have really bashed on Garth in this episode; he's 'Bobby 2.0,' he's not 'worthy' of speaking to Sam and Dean and giving them or any other hunter advice, he's a clown or comic relief and never to be taken seriously ever. I don't agree with this at all. Just because he's a clown and sometimes used as comic relief doesn't mean he's not a real person and capable of feeling a whole range of emotions, all of which he showed here. Cas, Lucifer, Rufus, even our beloved Bobby have all been used as comic relief in the past, but that has never diminished their totality as a character IMO and Garth deserves at least the same consideration as these other characters. Garth's back story shows that he's come by his hunter experiences honestly, has had several years worth of experience and that he knew Bobby well and has worked with him since season 5 at least. He's a fully rounded character and as such, has a full range of emotions, likes, dislikes and a POV that is singularly his own which he is allowed to express as he sees fit. He took offense, finally, to Dean's treatment of him, and he let Dean know it. And Garth was justified in his outburst and Dean acknowledged that too.

It is clear why Garth was here in this episode, and I think you said it best Sweetondean; Sam and Dean need a referee at this point, and they also needed a little outside perspective, which is what Garth gave them. The brothers needed to hear this advice even if they aren't ready yet to act on it yet. At the very least it helped each brother to make clear their current stance which left them in a place in which they could proceed with the hunt for Kevin. Not resolved, but functional is the way I see it. They are together by necessity at the moment, and that's fine until the larger issues can be resolved at a later date. Some time to stew in your juices is great for increasing dramatic tension. If conflicts are resolved easily and without suffering, insight, compromise and change, then the resolution isn't worth much IMHO. The boys are going to have to work for a resolution to their problems here, and I expect that it will take the bulk of the season. Although each brother is being given a backstory, both of those are only parts of the larger season arc, which is their divide and estrangement.

This episode seemed to do exactly what it was set up to do. Raise the stakes on the brother's conflict, reacquaint the fans with some of the core conflicts between the brothers and yet keep those issues from boiling over until a little later in the season. Soon we will get Cas back to add his mess to the mud pile and things will get even more complicated! I for one can't wait. Loving this brother conflict!! love, love love.
Amy
# Amy 2012-11-10 09:19
Amazing review. Loved your advice to the boys. I know you and others keep going on about Deans abandonment issues and so i have a question. I wonder what would happen if the writers ever gave Sam a charector to interact with, a guy in the hunting world that is Sam's friend...one who he sees as a brother.

Would Dean of the profound bonds with 2 others see this as a betrayal? As Sam not loving him anymore? Is this maybe why Sam has absolutely no one in his present life except Dean?

I've often wondered in an interestingly observationally way if that is why the writers after 8 years continually isolate Sam. And why every friendship he ever had was systematically cut out of his life
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 14:55
It's an interesting point, that I'm going to ruminate on!

I think that they've both had they're people stripped away. Though Cass is coming back he was initially done away with and I don't think Dean's friendship with him will ever be what it was. So in many ways, that first friendship is now a thing of the past. I have a feeling Benny won't survive this season...so that one will more likely be gone too.

I would very much like to see Sam have a relationship outside his brother, that could co-exist with his relationship with his brother rather than be a threat of pulling him away, because I think that's been dangled over everyone's heads too long now.

I have always believed, that Sam is less in need of having people around him. He seems somewhat self contained - I mean this in a positive way. Maybe it's because he had a brief taste of friends and a larger world in his early 20's. I don't know. It's true that in the past, he's not coped well when separated from Dean through tragedy, which would at least imply that he needs his brother as much as his brother needs him. But this time around, he obviously did a better job of that, which I was happy to see.

It's interesting that Dean's friends are also both of their world, which I guess makes sense, but neither are human, which is interesting in itself.

You've got me wondering about the isolation thing now. I wonder if it has been a conscious choice? I wonder if it's to emphasise that he is different? As in the demon blood thing (not drinking, in his veins). I do think Sam has similar issues to Dean around being left though and I think these come from his feeling different.

Thanks for bringing this up! Maybe some others have better insight! I'm gonna have to think about that one!
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 15:48
As much as I adore Sam I've always thought of him as a bit of a loner. He does love and need his brother but sometimes I think he enjoys the low profile and have not noticed him actively seeking out a lot of friends. He seems more confident and content within himself than Dean does. I could be reading this all wrong of course. I would love to see him have some friends and relationships beyond Dean! But maybe his isolation is self-imposed??? Not sure about that. Criticism welcome on this one.
st50
# st50 2012-11-10 15:53
Quote:
As much as I adore Sam I've always thought of him as a bit of a loner.
...
But maybe his isolation is self-imposed??? Not sure about that. Criticism welcome on this one.
I think his isolation always HAD been self-imposed , after his college days, because he felt like he was going to 'go darkside', because of his 'destiny', because he always felt like 'a freak', and because all his friends kept ending up dead.
Maybe now it's just habit? Because, as the empathetic, puppy-eyed brother, he does seem to relate better to people...
No idea....
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 15:58
So true, Sam has always been better with people skills than Dean. Hmm curious.
etheldred
# etheldred 2012-11-10 15:57
They've never really developed this idea in canon, but I'd think that after what he learned gradually, culminating in Swan Song, about how many people in his life had been demons or used as pawns of demons (his prom date, Brady, the way Jess's death was engineered, etc.), combined with the way both he and Dean lose the people around them, Sam may have become wary of attaching to new people. He seems to have been much more open to friendship at Stanford, and he used to open up more to the one-shot characters they met in the early seasons.

But I think Sam has always had a need to go inward and work stuff out by himself; he's much more introverted in how he deals with stuff than Dean. And that I think may be just a personality trait, not the result of the bizarre Winchester life experience. Even as early as the flashback in a Very Supernatural Christmas, you see him turn away after what Dean tells him to process his grief and shock by himself.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 16:06
I agree, I think it's in his personality to look inward and try to process things, think things through. The brothers are so very different in this way. But he relates to people much easier than Dean, as a generalisation. Even in recent flashbacks, you can see him connecting with the lad at the motel. Sam always makes the effort to connect. But he has a self-contained air about him and I think that yes, this comes from the fact that he is able to look inwards.
st50
# st50 2012-11-10 16:11
Absolutely agree that Sam processes everything internally, quietly, before he can deal with stuff, ....why he so often looks to be running away. (Definitely a bit introverted in that respect, and that I can relate to)
But he's always reached out to and seemed to understand others, so the lonely, friendless isolation has to be hard for him.
Dean's always just needed family. Sam has always wanted others, as well as family.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 18:12
It is sad to me that Sam looks and deals with things internally and when Dean looks inward he still does not like what he sees. How does he process things? Not very well often. Usually as a hunter, no problem. Personal issues, another matter. I feel for him sometimes and this episode in particular. He doesn't seem to be able to let things go and they can't go forward until he can. I know they love each other but damn it's been awhile since they showed it.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 18:34
I do have to add that Dean seems much more confident and focused since his return but does that extend to his self worth? Not sure.
E
# E 2012-11-10 21:53
It also makes me wonder if some of Sam's isolation comes from his later childhood years. The Girl Next Door addresses this to some degree. It appears that from about the time was maybe 13 or 14, he spent lots of time alone. Dean dropped out of school in his senior year and it's been mentioned that he began hunting full time with John. TGND shows Sam basically coping with daily life on his own. This could now be leading to his current tendency to be alone.
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2012-11-10 21:36
Quote:
As much as I adore Sam I've always thought of him as a bit of a loner. He does love and need his brother but sometimes I think he enjoys the low profile and have not noticed him actively seeking out a lot of friends. He seems more confident and content within himself than Dean does. I could be reading this all wrong of course. I would love to see him have some friends and relationships beyond Dean! But maybe his isolation is self-imposed??? Not sure about that. Criticism welcome on this one.
i disagree that Sam has always been a loner. I'm using his college experiences where he had a girlfriend and friends as my reason for that. I do agree he has been a loner in his family because he had two parents, John and Dean telling him whar to do. In adddition, moving around made it hard to have friends. Sam is the lonliest person in the world for me.

I disagree about the Amy thing. It needed to be brought up because Dean nailed Sam for not killing her and here he is being friends with a vampire. How is that different? It isn't from Sams POV.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 23:11
Hi Jo1027, thanks for your input. I'm not adamant about that. He just always seemed to hang back in a lot of situations not reaching out for friends. Maybe not by choice. His friends in college seem a little suspect now. Not Jess of course. I would love to see Sam happy in a relationship and have friends of his own.
Not sure what you mean about the "Amy thing"I did not bring her up. Are you referring to someone elses comment?
ApologieLEAH D
# ApologieLEAH D 2012-11-10 23:55
Apologies Jo1027- Because of the quote I thought both paragraphs were addressed to me. I realize now you were referring to the review.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-10 23:58
Wow time to go to bed, I am obviously rummy.
Rick D
# Rick D 2012-11-10 17:39
Quote:
Amazing review. Loved your advice to the boys. I know you and others keep going on about Deans abandonment issues and so i have a question. I wonder what would happen if the writers ever gave Sam a charector to interact with, a guy in the hunting world that is Sam's friend...one who he sees as a brother.

Would Dean of the profound bonds with 2 others see this as a betrayal? As Sam not loving him anymore? Is this maybe why Sam has absolutely no one in his present life except Dean?

I've often wondered in an interestingly observationally way if that is why the writers after 8 years continually isolate Sam. And why every friendship he ever had was systematically cut out of his life
What a truly excellent question, that I would like to see explored more on the show. The way things are going- I might even get my wish. LOL! After all, Dean might meet Amelia one day, and I doubt she'll be welcomed with open arms.

I can't see Sam as a loner, despite his years with Dean. His heart is too open and caring, which I thought was so well-represente d by Sam's interaction with the kid at the motel, asking about his dad's health, and pitching in when needed. I think Sam is a guy who likes to be liked, and has enormous empathy for others, and that's why he makes such easy connections with people.

If Sam ever had a hunter friend who wasn't Dean? Who Sam felt was almost like a brother? Oooh boy! That would not go over good with Dean IMO.
eilf
# eilf 2012-11-10 18:24
Yes I have never been able to understand why Sam isn't allowed any connections. From what we have seen the only hunter who doesn't actually want to kill him is Garth. It has been pointed out on several occasions that Dean fits in amazingly with larg(ish) communities (filmsets, prisons) but Sam never gets to keep anyone past the end of an episode - well until now and even that is in flashback. It is so sad *sniffle*

I get the impression that Sam and Castiel are going to be working together this season (for more than one episode possibly - though I don't see how JP and MC will get any work done, maybe they will film on different days...). Wonder how Dean will take to that? Especially if Sam has settled his differences with Cas, be interesting to see Dean reconciling his feelings of betrayal where the betrayal itself has been mended.
I want a Sam / Cas hug! The non-hug in LAV was totally unfair and I know it was funny, but, no!!!
Rick D
# Rick D 2012-11-10 20:47
It's true- it's so terribly sad that Sam never gets to keep any outside connections.

Oh man, I am SO excited to hear about Sam and Cas working together, I can hardly believe it! They should hug all the time where Dean can see, just to cheese him off. LOL! Just kidding people, put those effigies down!
As for JP, my impression is he has mellowed since becoming a dad, and he and MC have bonded over kid's videos at a recent con. I think seeing them on the screen together again will be a complete delight- just adding to the awesome that is Season Gr8!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 20:51
Quote:
They should hug all the time where Dean can see, just to cheese him off. LOL! Just kidding people, put those effigies down!
Bahahaha! This made me laugh so loud my dog jumped!

I'm looking forward to a bit of Sam/Cass fence mending. I could certainly go a hug!
eilf
# eilf 2012-11-10 21:40
See we don't need them to change the storyline they have planned - but we definitely could petition the PTB for hugs!
(and not Dean/Benny hugs *grumble* )
eilf
# eilf 2012-11-10 21:38
Heh - mistreating Misha is one of Jared's greatest pleasures and that doesn't seem to have changed ONE BIT. I saw the baby video clip it was just hysterical (and adorable).
Amy
# Amy 2012-11-10 23:03
Sam having a friend outside of Dean not going over well with Dean is pure crap. I'm sorry but it is. Dean is allowed to have his special bonds but Sam can't?

Its so frusterating because the ONLY way we can see inside of Sam s through interaction with others. Dean i'm sorry is useless for this. The guys especially Dean don't talk to each other. And whenever Sam DOES talk to Dean he gets slammed by fans for burdoning Dean. And all Dean thinks is Sam wants him to fix it. Sam needs someone to talk to as well, someone who will listen if only to commiserate with a Beer.
st50
# st50 2012-11-10 09:51
Loved your review (except for the bust on Sam for that last Benny line, which I heard differently and have discussed elsewhere). I do enjoy your optimism, and it helps to push down my disappointment that they haven't already dealt with this crap and aren't moving on to solve the current issues.
Absolutely love your advise for the boys. Consider being a marriage counsellor? I kid... who could ever counsel those two... I'd just stare, drool,....
:oops:
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 14:38
Haha! I'm not sure I'd be a very good marriage counsellor! I'm pretty sure I hit on one of them! :lol:
m1tchells
# m1tchells 2012-11-10 11:01
OMG – this turned out much LONGER than I expected! Sorry!! :sigh:

Loved your review as always! Ialso really enjoyed this episode. I enjoyed Garth so much more this go around. You were on the money when you described him as being sincere in his attempts to emulate Bobby. He is not trying to replace him as much as he is trying to honor his memory and pick up the torch so to speak. It is a needed position within the hunter community and someone had to do it. Garth is perfect with his whole zen outlook.

There were alot of people who did not like the ending but I wasn't one of them. Did it help the situation? No. Did Sam have to say it so much as a challenge? No. But I get that he was pissed. He brother had just told him that Benny was a better brother than him. Ouch! So, he gave a tiny but more information about him and Amelia. And then he got his hit in. One thing that stuck out to me was that he said something like “One day I might be the hunter runs into Benny on day and ices him”. Funny that he was thinking about something in the “future” and yet still referring to himself as a hunter.

On Dean’s specter induced rage… I didn’t feel like these were things that Dean necessarily blamed Sam for as much as things that just hurt him. I think it is irrational to think that Sam had any control over coming back from hell with no soul. And even though at the time Sam knew something was wrong with him, I never thought that he attributed it to having no soul. And I never thought that Dean blamed him for that or the decisions that Sam made while having no soul. That, to me, is as irrational as killing someone over a bad call in a softball game. This was more about “feelings” to me than “facts” (facts is not the word I want to use, but drawing a blank on the right one). And as far as Benny being the better brother….pfff t. Don’t buy it for a second. That was just the hurt talking. Someone else noted that Dean tends to put people on a pedestal only to be let down by them when they fall. He did it with his dad, Sam, Cas and now with Benny. Benny will fall of the pedestal. It’s not gonna be pretty. On a side note though, I really like Benny! Also, Cas is going to have a few things to share about Benny and I look forward to hearing his input!!!

Loved getting a better look at Sam and Amelia. I get where people think there is no “chemistry” between the two of them but I really feel like that is on purpose. We are not supposed to think Sam fell in love with someone and therefore didn’t look for Dean. I think it is very similar to Dean’s connection with Benny. Dean/Benny/Cass were in the same place fighting the same battles. Sam and Amelia were in the same place fighting their same battles. I don’t think that chemistry, lust or love had squat to do with it. It was more about loss and compassion and understanding. What it turns into is yet to be seen and I can’t wait!

One more quick thing then I’m done, I swear! The facial expressions / mannerisms of both guys this year are killing me!! So good! OMG! When Dean said to Sam “Did Garth just tell us what to do?” and did his little head bob thing I just about died! I just kept hitting rewind! And just kept laughing! It's the little things.... :P
st50
# st50 2012-11-10 11:11
Quote:
I don’t think that chemistry, lust or love had squat to do with it. It was more about loss and compassion and understanding. What it turns into is yet to be seen and I can’t wait!

One more quick thing then I’m done, I swear! The facial expressions / mannerisms of both guys this year are killing me!! So good! OMG! When Dean said to Sam “Did Garth just tell us what to do?” and did his little head bob thing I just about died! I just kept hitting rewind! And just kept laughing! It's the little things.... :P
Yes about Amelia and Sam - companionship and comfort are what I'm seeing right now... I guess their relationship builds, but at this point, I just see 2 lost souls who need something/someo ne, and are grabbing hold to keep from drowning. (all the bottles in Amelia's room aren't there for nothing imo, folks)

About the expressions/man nerisms.... It probably doesn't need to be said again, but THIS is what these 2 actors bring to the show that make it SO good. They play off each other so well, and really play off everything in the script. Sometimes there's not enough in the script, but hey... when they have it, Boy do they milk it for all its worth! Love it!
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-10 11:38
But if Sam and Amelia are supposed to be lost souls who just connected, or people in a deep depression, then why is there no evidence of that?

Sam doesn't appear to be "lost" or "depressed" in these FBs. Amelia has been coming off like a bitch, not a depressed war widow!

Too often I feel fans have very varied ideas on what's happening w/Sam or what he's thinking. The show needs to support some of these ideas - if this is what they're trying to convey - through dialogue. I know it's a novel idea, but why don't think have Sam TALK about his feelings, etc.
st50
# st50 2012-11-10 11:44
I hear ya, lala. I'm 'reading into it', and I shouldn't really have to at this point.
I really do wish they'd explicitly show/state where all these characters are emotionally. (Dean - although we get more from him, it's not enough yet, Sam - close to nothing. He's still taking more from Dean than he's fighting back, Amelia - barely anything yet) We've had more from Benny than any of the main characters. .... yet...
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-10 12:29
I hear what M1thells is saying down below, but by this point, we should be getting a bit more on how Sam felt about Dean dying, esp. if he felt like his world had "imploded." Too often, it seems like we have to wait to get Sam's POV. I was hoping that wouldn't happen this year.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 15:06
We need to see something from those "few months" desperately. I can only see that happening if Sam actually opens up about how he was feeling when he lost Dean or some situation occurs that brings those feelings flooding back and we get a flashback with it. But at the moment, I agree we're not seeing it in the flashbacks at all. This week was the first time we heard Sam verbalise how he felt when he lost his brother, but he hasn't shared that with Dean. I'd like to see Sam's POV on those initial 3 months. I think at this stage, it's important and a key part of the puzzle we're missing. Man, it could pretty much be a whole episode!

I also keep going back to that damn shadowy figure. Who was that? Is it part of this puzzle?
jazzonkim
# jazzonkim 2012-11-12 00:17
Ok, I have a Wild-Ass Theory (WAT?) for the shadowy figure! It's completely out of left field, but I've been thinking that perhaps Amelia wasn't perfectly honest about her husband's demise - maybe he actually came back from war with PTSD and was physically abusive. It would be hard to deal with a suddenly abusive partner, especially if you're being judged by the community, who sees a hero, for not being supportive enough. And it could be that the police ignored or underestimated the threat or couldn't help. If this were the case, it would explain why she seems to be on the run, as opposed to settling down in a new place, and why she appears to have no family at all. So maybe the shadowy figure is her husband tracking her down? It could it also explain why Sam left, if she finally told him the truth. He would be understandably upset that she lied, especially about being still married.

Probably not a likely explanation, but it would create some interesting parallels between the situations Sam and Amelia found themselves in. In my mind, it also helps explain why Sam might be feeling guilty for leaving, since his time with post-Purgatory Dean has given him more perspective. You know how people get when they feel guilty - it usually comes out in defensiveness. Maybe it would help explain why Sam was so defensive with Spectre-enhance d Dean? Not that he didn't have a right to defend himself, but he seemed quicker than usual to do so, considering that he knew Dean was possessed.

Well, at any rate, I'm thoroughly enjoying this season so far, especially Dean and Purgatory. As you can tell, they've got me speculating and creating back-stories like crazy, which means I'm totally invested, perhaps more so than in the previous two seasons. I also appreciate that they seem to be returning to form in terms of solving cases with a bit of creativity and cleverness - Dean with his knack for strategy and instinct, and Sam with some great research and skillz of a hacker. [Sidenote: How refreshing is it to watch a show that actually understands what is and isn't possible with computers? Every procedural show, I'm looking at you!] And I LOVE that Kevin is the guy forcing them to up their game here - he was in Advanced Placement, after all!

Wow, that was more than I expected to say. Now I know why I see that in so many of the comments! I'll just finish by saying that I enjoyed your review and all of the articles and discussions here on WFB! As a casual reader, I appreciate the time everyone takes to contribute. Thanks!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-12 00:25
Quote:
I'll just finish by saying that I enjoyed your review and all of the articles and discussions here on WFB! As a casual reader, I appreciate the time everyone takes to contribute. Thanks!
Thank you, all the writers at WFB appreciate the time everyone takes to read our thoughts and add their comments and theories to the mix!
m1tchells
# m1tchells 2012-11-10 11:51
In alot of the interviews, there is talk about peeling back the layers of an onion. Onepiece at a time till you get to the core. If you think of it more like reading a book, then we just finished chapter 6 of a 23 chapter book. When we sit down to read a story, we know that it is going to play out a little bit at a time. If we got all of the answers in chapter 6 of a book, the book would probably end at Chapter 7. Then where would we be? We would be like one of those shows on TNT with all of the tiny little short seasons. :cry: And as this may have gone off topic, I'm gonna stop here. But lala2 - hang in there!
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-10 12:19
It didn't go off-topic :-)

I'll try to hang on but it's getting harder each week . . . .

I'm finding myself not even caring IF they resolve these issues. They're so far gone from what they used to be . . . I'll just stop now.
Rick D
# Rick D 2012-11-10 20:54
I'm so glad someone sees this, too. In particular, I think Jared is doing wonders to convey his sadness and isolation, particularly when the script often shows him reacting to things, rather than having dialogue to express.
Smithie Parrish
# Smithie Parrish 2012-11-10 11:30
Love your reviews. I got to say, though that I loved to see Sam finally get well and truly pissed. True, the brothers just cannot be upfront with each other and they so need to. But they so aren't going to. Dean needs to hear the turth, that Sam nearly fell apart when he was left alone, and Sam needs to tell him. It would be healthy. When have the Winchesters ever been healthy? But...I think it was totally in character for Sam to get petty when he's at his last straw and I think Sam's pretty close to his last straw. Dean has thrown Sam's choice to leave the life in his face from episode one. You could see the hurt in Sam's face every time, but Sam patiently let him chew on him with it. On top of that, how it must have hurt for Dean to say Benny was more of a brother to him to Sam has ever been? How deep is that wound? Deeper than the wound Sam has knowing that, once again he's disappointed his brother not carrying on the family business, and I think that wieghs heavy on Sam.
It was a petty comment for Sam to say 'move on or I will' but I think it shows just how hurt and Sam is. And I think it was right to be there.
I love to see it when the brothers are getting along and having some laughs, but this season is sizzling with angst and conflict between the brothers and I wonder if we will see it resolved by the end of S8...maybe S10.
Fool for Dean
# Fool for Dean 2012-11-10 11:56
sweetondean, what a nice read that was! I'm in agreement with you in so many places, but what really jumps out is that the brothers need to talk more - and I'm not even referring to the get-the-angst-o ut talk. I mean just talk. "Hey Dean how was purgatory" "Dude it was tough, I almost died so many times. Benny saved my ass once. Saved Cas's ass one time too..." You were soooo right on the money they need to exchange more info about their last year.

What I never connected was "I found something" inherently translates to "I found something better than you" in Dean's mind, and now that you've mentioned it, I think you are so right. And yes, that's probably what hurts the most. Man, I wish Sam would've used the "my world imploded" line when talking to Dean. I am SURE that it would have helped them!!!
krystal
# krystal 2012-11-10 12:48
Wow! I just love your reviews and insight into these characters. You truly get them and help me understand more and more with each episode the underlying brotherly drama that I am not that good at identifying with. I love this show and am one to continue following it to the end (even through the ups and downs of season 6 & 7), but I am honestly admitting that I am really enjoying the drama in season 8 so much that I am not sure where we would be without all these insecurity and trust issues. So bring on the angst and fights and turmoil for the brothers. I want to see them play it out and learn to grow closer as brothers after their year apart. They had separate lives and now are having a hard time figuring out their relationship together. I get that and I don't think knowing their history that one fight or one conversation is going to get to the bottom of it all. It's a start, but this is going to take awhile to play out and I'm on board for that!
st50
# st50 2012-11-10 13:11
This isn't in your review, sweetondean, so I'm probably wrong for putting it here, but I'm interested in your (and others) take on this.
In the flashback with Amelia (where Sam is still wearing his Tshirt in bed -DARN!), Sam doesn't wake up until Amelia is about ready to walk out the door. Here's my issue, if, as we'd seen, he was still all panicky about bad things happening, people disappearing, and based on all his hunter training, HOW could he possibly have slept through her stirring around? She was probably trying to sneak out, but I have trouble believing he slept so deeply (being griefstricken/f reaked out) that he didn't hear it.
Yup. I know I'm being picky here, and that was simply a writers choice that I should let go, but it bugged me.
Comments?
(Fine with me if you want to move this elsewhere if you deem appropriate :-) )
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 14:33
Wow, I never thought of that but you're right, that is odd!

Like you, I was a little more confounded by that darn t-shirt. I was thinking, hang on a minute, did he just slip it on because he got up to get them a glass of water or is he still sleeping in his clothes at this point, old habit of a hunter. But you're right, if it's only been a few months, as he said at the door, since he lost Dean, then you'd imagine that he'd still be on alert, even if only out of habit. Maybe, this means that he decided to leave the life before he met Amelia and his process of removing himself from being a hunter had already started? I could be way off there. But good point.

And I totally forgot to talk about the flashbacks because they didn't inform us too much more than we'd already garnered from past flashbacks, other than they both lost someone whose name started with D. We already knew they were brought together by mutual grief.

And they totally could have at least given us no t-shirt in that scene! ;-)
st50
# st50 2012-11-10 15:00
Thanks, sweetondean! It was interesting, anyway. I vote we burn all the tshirts for both guys. And some of that flannel!

Speaking of flashbacks... I thought the first one was well placed, and did indeed give us some interesting input....

Ms Alcott had just talked about how she hadn't been a 'good girl', and thought she and Chester were going to be 'all hot and heavy, but it just wasn't meant to be'. He left her and went back to Mary....
Sam (after concluding the interview) immediately recalled the first time sleeping with Amelia.... So Sam thought they were going to be all hot&heavy, and Amelia pulled back... Poor Sam.
The flashback fit, and did tell his mindset somewhat. He really does need that devoted love that he used to get (platonic, people!) from Dean.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 15:38
Good point. I hadn't twigged as to that's why he thought of Amelia at that point.

I'm interested to see why she pulled away. Poor Sam indeed... I can only assume he's not the smiley, seemingly balanced person we're getting in the flashbacks once the relationship gets into gear. Maybe we'll see how his grief informs his behaviour ongoing?

Be very interesting to see what made him slip out in the middle of the night and for her not to stop him. I wondered if by that point he wasn't living there, as he seemed to be travelling very light. Maybe they'd already officially split by then and it was just a one night, one of those things thing when we first saw him? I do feel like we're finally getting somewhere with his flashbacks, so hopefully it'll keep up the momentum.
st50
# st50 2012-11-10 15:49
I hope so too. Both that "we'll see how his grief informs his behaviour" and that "it'll keep up the momentum"
:-)
Teresa Pezzino
# Teresa Pezzino 2012-11-12 13:38
Truthfully, based on Amelia's teasing 'Pervert' to Sam, I suspect that they had, shall we say, an 'exhausting' night and he slept harder and better than he had in months or even years! =D
st50
# st50 2012-11-12 13:45
Quote:
Truthfully, based on Amelia's teasing 'Pervert' to Sam, I suspect that they had, shall we say, an 'exhausting' night and he slept harder and better than he had in months or even years! =D
:D :oops:
Good answer!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-12 13:55
Very good answer...this deserves further consideration and possibly a lengthy flashback! ;-)
eilf
# eilf 2012-11-12 13:59
Now I don't think your motives are entirely innocent there...
st50
# st50 2012-11-12 14:00
Quote:
.... a lengthy flashback! ;-)
Gulp. *whispers* puleeze?
sylia91
# sylia91 2012-11-10 14:14
Another spot on review of the episode. I think all of us fans would love to sit the brothers down and tell them what you listed in your letter to each, inserting dating requests depending on your brother of choice but then this wouldn't be SPN and even Bobby tread this area carefully. I'm liking Garth more but agree he is to be taken in small doses. I love that he obviously idolizes Dean as well and takes every opportunity to hug him, something Dean tolerates from Garth a lot more than anyone else has ever been permitted to approach. Garth is like the antiBobby but it's working and it wouldn't grate as much as someone who really tried to take Bobby's place with all of his irascible gruffness. Easy going, zen Garth is a nice contrast bad musical choices not withstanding.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 15:30
I loved Dean's face in that last hug. He smiled in spite of himself :-)
Bevie
# Bevie 2012-11-10 14:41
Another great review, sweetondean. I love your speeches to both the brothers. I keep telling them but they don't hear me through the tv screen for some reason. :-*

Dean was harsh to Sam while possessed, but even so, right at this moment, I believe Sam has been (unknowingly, I hope) so very cruel and cold to Dean since reunited. Where was the joy to have him back again? Remember the end of 'Mystery Spot'? He continually tells him he wants out, and Dean hears, 'I wanta leave your ass!' Dean is hurting bad and fears his baby brother hates him now. He must feel so very alone. Sam has a girl and a dog? Dean had Lisa and Ben, and left them both to go back to Sam. Granted I don't recall him ever sharing with Sam how much that affected him. It's a wonder Dean doesn't explode with all that pent up fear and emotions roiling around in his gut! He has no one to share any of them with right now. (Bad Sera for killing off Bobby! Unforgivable!)

Garth reminds me of an adorable puppy you can't help but fall in love with. I'd like to see him a couple times a season. He's so not loaded down with baggage he is a relief. And he is so very observant and can sense the brothers' conflict. He was like a marriage counseler. I love how he loved Bobby and is trying to carry on for him.

Sam is acting like a kid whose very best friend has found another kid to play with. Is he acting out in jealousy when threatening to kill Benny? If so, please let Dean know how much he means to you and has always meant and that nothing has changed those feelings. Dean has always loved you from when you were born. We know that and I don't know how you can think he doesn't still after selling his soul for you. He didn't want to live without you. That is not healthy but that is the way it is and always will be. Show him a little of the same please. Remember when you said "You're my brother and I'd die for you"? A small bit of obvious affection would go a long long way with Dean.

Can't wait for Cas next Wednesday. :P
eilf
# eilf 2012-11-10 18:34
I don't suppose there is any point in hoping that Garth was there for the Betrayal Greatest Hits Showdown at least in part so that Dean can ring him up and go 'Sam is really pissed at me, what did I say? Because I should be the one who is angry over Purgatory, what else is there?'.

Nah, probably not.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 21:13
Wouldn't that be neat? If only Dean would....
nicole murray
# nicole murray 2012-11-10 21:08
nice Amy! I was a little more angry than you, but justified things too. I really have loved this season and think we're finally seeing some movement here. this stuff has to get out! COME ON EVERYONE!!! GROUP NAKED HUG! oh wait...ahem...c onfusing Supernatural and PORN...we hit a lot of the same points, you worked toward getting the boys to reason with each other while I snarked a bit on Amelia...one thing--I am fairly confident that Sam mentioned the name Amelia to Dean before, and the way he said it to Dean was pissy, as in STOP CALLING HER "THE GIRL" SHE IS MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN THAT. yet he still seemingly just left her high and dry...so I'd really like to know what is going on there. I think there is still A LOT that we need to find out about...sparkli ng as always! your love for the show shines through like a beacon :D
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 21:15
Thanks Nicole! I do love this show. It is a true fact. The good always outweighs the bad and I just DIG it. I really do. Otherwise I wouldn't spend a whole day writing about it! :o :P
etheldred
# etheldred 2012-11-10 21:18
Yes, Sam told Dean Amelia's name back in 8.1.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 21:20
Yes I think that was more about...she has a name!
Tiny
# Tiny 2012-11-10 21:21
Thanks Amy. I love this episode. I love how Garth is positioned and I really like how Adam Glass constructed this episode. It is no doubt his best yet!

Dean isn't the caring sharing type and he never will be one. So I think he will always not want to talk about hell, purgatory, Cas, Bobby and John the way he should have. I think through out the season, 'action' will do all the talking and Sam will eventually understand Dean, Benny and purgatory if he opens to it. But right now, I think Sam is just being Sam. And Dean being Dean.

I like how Garth is bringing in new perspectives to the brothers and the show. We are seeing something we haven't realised before. Kudos to the writers. I think Jeremy Carver is steering the ship into the right direction with plenty of humanity in it. It's very Being Human in a way, but that's what Carver is good at. He looks at things differently. I love him..

Cheers! Until next time.. Come here (((hugs)))

Tiny
xoxo
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-10 21:24
Thanks Tiny! And you know what's coming next right? (((hug)))
Joyful
# Joyful 2012-11-11 03:32
Thanks Amy for another great review - I too cringed at that extra comment that Sam made at the end. I felt it was almost a deliberate "Benny or me" threat which I felt was unnecessary. I understand he would have been hurt by Dean's comments (which I believe were magnified considerably by the influence of the spectre) and he was certainly entitled to let Dean know that enough was enough with the bitchy comments. But IMO I think the writers went too far. I agree that Garth was ok, and I was happy to see Dean come to understand where he was coming from (a place of affection for Bobby and not trying to replace him as such). Looking forward to the next episode where I hope the boys will talk to each other more openly and come to an understanding of each other's situation (and we can all stop taking the antacid tablets for the heartburn these boys give us!). :-)
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-11-11 11:37
Hi Joyful. Boy do I agree. EXCEPT- don't hold your breath or put away the Tums yet. I'm sure this will drag out for awhile. As much as my stomach gets in knots and I don't enjoy the fan anger, I feel this is leading somewhere. It will be a long and difficult labor but I think a better relationship will emerge. That was corny, sorry:-)
Darya
# Darya 2012-11-11 09:15
Another great review! I love reading your reviews- you're so passionate! I woke up Friday morning really anguished for some reason and couldn't for the life of me figure out what was making me so nervous, it being a holiday for me all...and then I remembered Supernatural. Sigh, that just cannot be healthy but who cares? I'm on a high! God I love this show so much and you remind me why every time.

Loved this episode, though IMO everything after the "move on or I will" line was too much. Somebody suggested that when Sam was talking about Benny, was Sam asking Dean "What if I kill the 'better brother'? What will happen between us then?" and that's just...ouch.

Loved Garth in this episode, and was so surprised with this episode in general. And that sequence with the Soundgarden song was pure gold!

Loving S8 so far.
Michele Hughes
# Michele Hughes 2012-11-11 11:40
Great review :) Lots for me to enjoy and think about in what you say, and I love having lots to think about when it comes to Sam and Dean.
Daisymae
# Daisymae 2012-11-11 12:56
Dean and Sam are like the U.S. Congress.
st50
# st50 2012-11-11 13:19
Quote:
Dean and Sam are like the U.S. Congress.
That made me laugh. And oddly, seems quite appropriate... All that talking without listening, needless passive aggression....
Better not go there. :D
EireneS
# EireneS 2012-11-11 16:37
I loved Dean's fight with the spectre (or spirit), loved him going literally face to face with the bad guy and calling it out. Reminded me a little of Constantine-nam e the evil, call it out, fight it and hopefully vanquish it. Talk about Dean being hot!!!!
emmau
# emmau 2012-11-11 16:46
I know, right? Despite all its drawbacks, I kind of love that Dean's default hunting strategy is still "Walk up to the fugly, shoot it in the face, save the people in danger."
Michele Hughes
# Michele Hughes 2012-11-12 05:14
emmau, I love this description of Dean's hunting style :-D
Leah
# Leah 2012-11-12 07:03
HA-In a nutshell Emmau.Thats great.
Laf
# Laf 2012-11-11 17:17
This quote of yours freaked me out: "maybe Dean was right, maybe he does blame Dean for dragging him back to the life" because, even though the show tells me it's not true, this is pretty much the most logical conclusion of Sam's behavior, all that sudden raging anger and spite.

I know objectively it isn't true, but the show really needs to show me Sam grieving for Dean and glad to have him back. Because I really don't SEE it in S8. Carver is making me question his decisions. Because it's 8-6 and I still am wondering what is up with Sam, and not in an entertaining way.

I would love to see a reversal of Dean leaving Sam. I need to see Sam choose Dean, but also, I think it would be emotionally satisfying to get over all those many times the shoe was on the other foot.
Sharon
# Sharon 2012-11-11 17:27
What rage? I agree he has been distant but rage ? maybe he can be viewed as being wrong to be upset over Benny I dont agree with that and maybe angry right now but not rageful.

I think people are putting ideas into Sam's mind and thinking for him because they cant grasp what Sam is feeling I dont particularly like the story either . As for Dean leaving right now as it stands after Dean's words and after everything I dont think it would have the impact some want.
emmau
# emmau 2012-11-11 17:32
I think it's a bit unfair to say someone can grasp what Sam is feeling just because they have a different interpretation. At this point, it's definitely a matter of perspective--ra ge vs. anger, mature vs. spiteful, etc. I think Sam was definitely angry at Dean to the point of being a bit OOC about Benny's possibilities as a trustworthy monster, but I wouldn't use the word rage. Someone else might, though, and their POV isn't less valid than mine.

I sadly would have to agree with you that Dean leaving right now probably isn't going to have the impact that fans like Laf (and myself at times) want. I don't see the Sam we're watching right now chasing after Dean and choosing him first. Of course he's not obligated to, but in terms of brotherly bond it would be necessary, and I just don't see it happening right now.
emmau
# emmau 2012-11-11 17:34
A bit unfair to say someone can't grasp waht Sam is feeling. Drat.
Bluepony
# Bluepony 2012-11-11 21:22
Thank you for a wonderful review. I always look forward to your interpretation of where Sam and Dean are in the episodes.

I agree with everything you said especially about Sam. It really bothered me that he was so hypocritical to Dean about what was said while possessed when he has done the same thing and Dean let it go. The threatening to leave and the threat to Benny were petty and immature. But Sam did need to tell Dean to give it a rest on the digs about turning off the phone and stopping hunting.

I wish these two would talk, for real and lay to rest old resentments and betrayals. Maybe they need some help from Garth. I really enjoyed Garth this episode.

Can't wait until next week to see Cas and what is going on with him.
Pragmatic Dreamer
# Pragmatic Dreamer 2012-11-11 23:07
Hi SweetonDean,

I' ve been pondering and pondering this episode much since I watched it. It’s ironic that in an episode entitled “Southern Comfort”, there was so little comfort to be had. Sam & Dean weren’t exactly comfortable with each other, or comforting to each other. And yet they are both so very much in need of the comfort only the other can give.

Garth, in his own way, tries to offer consolation to each brother, through his words and his actions. The man certainly understands the power of hugs. Keep hugging people and eventually they hug back!

Although I’m still curious about how Garth was pulled into hunting, it’s comforting to see a hunter who is not irretrievably wounded and damaged. He offers a glimpse of what life might be like, could be like for the brothers. True, after all the Winchesters have experienced, it may be an alternate reality existence for them, but it suggests that life is not one endless stream of sorrow for all hunters. Garth is also a testament to the fact there is much comfort to be gained from things that bring you joy or peace, be it meditation, videogames, or even having a beer with your brother!

Garth also sought to give comfort by sharing his feelings for Bobby. Personally, I really liked what he said about Bobby belonging to everyone, and that Sam & Dean didn’t own the right to mourn him, or to remember him. It’s true the three of them saw each other as family and and so had a special relationship. That does allow them to be extra protective of his memory. But, Bobby touched many lives and all those people miss him. It’s interesting that the aspect of Bobby which Garth chose to adopt was the aspect of helping people, and dispensing advice. Not a bad reminder to the boys, that at its core, hunting is about helping people, saving people, comforting people.

Garth even tried to ease the Winchester’s emotional pain with his advice. He reminded them you have to do more than talk. You have to listen. You can’t change the past. You can only learn from it and move forward. And having a brother is a gift, not a curse.

But it seems Garth is the only character at ease with himself, and his life. Amelia is as uncomfortable with emotions and sharing her feelings as the Winchesters. She mistakes compassion for pity. And when she’s uncomfortable with a person or situation, she tries to make it equally difficult for them. Hence the snark, the sarcasm and the prickly attitude. If she can keep people from getting too comfortable with her, she will never be comfortable with them, and therefore never get hurt.

Sam has been in need of comfort and consolation since that moment in the lab when he realized Dean was gone. My heart broke for him when he told Amelia that his world imploded when Dean was “lost”. It was such an appropriate word in this instance because he really didn’t know where Dean was. He’d simply vanished in a supernatural explosion. But DEAN needs to hear Sam say that. Then it will all click into place for him as to why his brother didn’t look for him. It’s bizarre, but Dean would find it comforting to know that it was grief that held Sam back. It’s a paralyzing emotion he can understand.

My belief is that Sam could not look for Dean because he was scared he wouldn’t be able to find him. That would mean Dean was dead and Sam truly was all alone.

I think Sam was right to show how hurt he was by Dean's comments. But Dean was about to say something else, after he said “I don’t remember most of what I said”. Maybe Dean was actually going to talk about some of his resentments, or open up about Benny, or talk about the latest Cowboys or JayHawks game? But Sam never gave him a chance. He assumed he knew what Dean would say and reacted to that assumption. Not much listening. Plus, throwing it in Dean’s face again that he a)might leave him and b)might kill his friend, does not create an atmosphere conducive to positive communication! Point A plays to all Dean's greatest fears and registers zero on the comfort scale.

My heart broke for Dean this episode too. He sees Garth and gets all this reminders of Bobby. I don’t think he’s fully mourned Bobby(of course Purgatory wasn’t really the spot to curl up and have a good old sobfest!) So to see an old trucker’s cap, or hear Bobby’s words spoken by another mouth has to be painful. . But I like that Garth smacked him down and reminded him that everyone grieves and remembers differently. It’s encouraging that by the end of the episode Dean was able to offer Garth some comfort, by giving back the cap and almost smiling at the appropriate use of “balls”.

But Garth was right to smack him down and remind him that everyone grieves and remembers differently. It was so encouraging to see Dean, trying to offer comfort to Garth by giving back the cap and almost smiling at the appropriate use of “balls”.

There was nothing comfortable about Dean’s spectre-induced speech, for him or Sam. I believe Dean has forgiven Sam for those mistakes and choices. (I don’t think Soulless Sam even knew what exactly was wrong with him, so bad example. Get over that one.) Dean’s issue is that he can still feel the emotional pain of those perceived betrayal wounds. He is so uncomfortable dealing with his emotions, he just opts not to. But, the problem with burying all those resentments is that when he does let loose, he’s like a volcano. He spews ash and lava everywhere. It can’t help but burn those in its path. Again, it's not conducive to positive communication. It creates rather than lessens pain.

Of course, that’s the uncomfortable reality about words spoken in anger. They’re often harsher and more hurtful than we intended, and they can never be unsaid, or unheard.

However, I do feel for Dean. He is being told again to both “open up and share your feelings and experiences” and “shut up and deal with it”. A guy could get whiplash!

The whole "I might be the hunter who ices Benny.. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it" exchange I took it as Dean saying “We’ll just have to see how the future unfolds”. I didn’t see it as a challenge to Sam. That is most likely the Pollyanna approach. However, I do think it’s massive foreshadowing. I suspect Sam and/or Dean are going to kill Benny (maybe because Benny will want to die) and that is going to be so tragic for all three of them.

There were so many times the brothers could have reached out to comfort one another. So sad they missed them.

One final point, I'm very intrigued that the spectre “liked” Dean. Is that somehow connected to his time in Purgatory? Did it super-infect Dean and that’s why all those old resentments came to the surface again? Is something new hunting the brothers? I found it an interesting carrot to dangle in front of us.

Sorry to be so long.

Pragmatic Dreamer
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-11 23:41
Thank you for your thoughtful comment Pragmatic Dreamer, once again you raised such good points.

I had a discussion with someone recently about the fate of Benny and we both talked about the possibility that whomever ices Benny, does so at his request, so it's interesting that you raised that. Certainly there was despondency in the character after his run in with his old family and lost love and if he does indeed go off the rails, maybe like Lenore, he will no longer be confident that he can live the life he wants to live, that he can't resist the monster in him anymore. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

I also didn't see Dean's "cross that bridge" response to Sam as a challenge, I took it as a "we'll see" response. But it's certaninly up for plenty of interpretation, from us and Sam.

I wish so much that Sam would open up about how he felt when he lost Dean, that in itself may help to start some wounds to close. But these two...as you say, are so caught up in their own anger and pain, they can no longer see straight. But I do believe, somehow, they'll get there.

It's an intriguing point regarding the spectre. He did seem overly interested in Dean. The sniffing thing was wrong! But maybe what he smelt was a perfect candidate, someone who fears facing with and dealing with his emotions, someone who buries and bottles up everything, someone he could have the maximum impact on. I'd image the spectre would really love someone like that....
Rick D
# Rick D 2012-11-12 00:32
Quote:


Although I’m still curious about how Garth was pulled into hunting, it’s comforting to see a hunter who is not irretrievably wounded and damaged.
It sure is! I think that's why Garth is my favorite guest hunter ever.

Quote:

Garth even tried to ease the Winchester’s emotional pain with his advice. He reminded them you have to do more than talk. You have to listen. You can’t change the past. You can only learn from it and move forward. And having a brother is a gift, not a curse.
Very wise words, and not just for the Winchester brothers either.

Quote:

Amelia is as uncomfortable with emotions and sharing her feelings as the Winchesters. She mistakes compassion for pity. And when she’s uncomfortable with a person or situation, she tries to make it equally difficult for them. Hence the snark, the sarcasm and the prickly attitude. If she can keep people from getting too comfortable with her, she will never be comfortable with them, and therefore never get hurt.
I totally agree, and that's part of what I find fascinating about her. The other part being how Sam found comfort in someone who is almost as messed up as he is.

Quote:

Sam has been in need of comfort and consolation since that moment in the lab when he realized Dean was gone. My heart broke for him when he told Amelia that his world imploded when Dean was “lost”. It was such an appropriate word in this instance because he really didn’t know where Dean was.
THANK YOU, Pragmatic Dreamer. Nice to see someone acknowledge this!

Quote:

My belief is that Sam could not look for Dean because he was scared he wouldn’t be able to find him. That would mean Dean was dead and Sam truly was all alone.
An excellent belief indeed, I can totally see that.

I don't know how Dean might respond to such a statement, probably with an implication that Sam had become female.

Quote:

Of course, that’s the uncomfortable reality about words spoken in anger. They’re often harsher and more hurtful than we intended, and they can never be unsaid, or unheard.
So very, very true.
E
# E 2012-11-14 09:12
Quote:

Amelia is as uncomfortable with emotions and sharing her feelings as the Winchesters. She mistakes compassion for pity. And when she’s uncomfortable with a person or situation, she tries to make it equally difficult for them. Hence the snark, the sarcasm and the prickly attitude. If she can keep people from getting too comfortable with her, she will never be comfortable with them, and therefore never get hurt.
I totally agree, and that's part of what I find fascinating about her. The other part being how Sam found comfort in someone who is almost as messed up as he is.


This sounds like a certain Winchester brother we all know and love. It's not surprising to me at all that Sam can and does find comfort from Amelia as she is very 'Deanlike' in many ways! Sam has always found Dean to be a comfort, even when he's being stubborn.
E
# E 2012-11-14 09:14
Sorry, that didn't quite work! my reply is supposed to be a quote within a quote. It took Pragmatic Dreamers original quote just fine, but didn't credit the top sentence to Rick D. Still new to the quote thing!
RMF
# RMF 2012-11-14 10:31
We're very used to thinking of Dean taking care of Sam. Maybe Sam became as accustomed to taking care of "needy" Dean, and it's the pattern that's comforting.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-14 14:54
Quote:
We're very used to thinking of Dean taking care of Sam. Maybe Sam became as accustomed to taking care of "needy" Dean, and it's the pattern that's comforting.
I always think of them as taking care of each other, it bounces back and forth with whomever is more needy in the moment, but I think Dean defines a large part of himself by taking care of Sam and others in his life. Remember that museum guide in "The Mentalists" who said about the Fox sisters "Sometimes, one's true gift is taking care of others." It was never really investigated beyond that, but I thought that was a big part of why Dean was floundering in season 7 because how he defined himself was being challenged and he was having trouble figuring out who he was and what his role was if it wasn't that.

Unfortunately, that's about as far as it went! La-de-da... and moving right along.
RMF
# RMF 2012-11-14 16:17
Of course they do take care of one another in basic ways, but as you say, Dean is more identified by his "one job". With Sam, it's less spelled out, more a case of witnessing how, for instance, in Seasons 1-3, he takes such an active role in helping Dean recognize and manage his own emotions. When he is left with no family and no friends in Season 7, essentially no natural place of belonging, he finds in Amelia someone as emotionally awkward as Dean often is. Sam plugs easily into that dynamic.
etheldred
# etheldred 2012-11-14 10:53
I like (Sam/Amelia fans unite! We seem a rare breed) not only that Sam finds someone as messed up as he is, but that the forms her messed upness takes have aspects of BOTH Sam and Dean. She's not just a mirror for Sam or a Dean substitute; it seems like she sheds light on both ways of coping. Or, as this is Winchesterland, not coping.
st50
# st50 2012-11-14 11:07
Quote:
I like (Sam/Amelia fans unite! We seem a rare breed) not only that Sam finds someone as messed up as he is, but that the forms her messed upness takes have aspects of BOTH Sam and Dean. She's not just a mirror for Sam or a Dean substitute; it seems like she sheds light on both ways of coping. Or, as this is Winchesterland, not coping.
Add me to the Sam/Amelia fan group.

Perhaps that IS why Sam is drawn to her... She's quite like Dean in her sarcasm/snarkin ess, and perhaps taking care of her is Sams way of honouring Dean?

But you're right, she certainly sheds light on both Winchester ways of non-coping. (new word for the day?)
:-)
Nitewoman7
# Nitewoman7 2012-11-12 01:01
I can always be guaranteed that somewhere in your reiviews I'll have a smile, a chuckle or outright laugh. Your side comments regarding Dean I'm with you girl. I was very afraid when I saw Adam Glass as the writer, he http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/archive-articles/6-episode-reviews/17514-sweetondeans-wrap-up-of-supernatural-806-southern-comfort.htmlhasn't penned any that I liked. I was quite surprised knowing this was Adam's that I really liked this one. I feel it's been a long time coming with Dean and Sam and with the help of the Spectre Dean's tirade was expected and getting it out will be the start for Dean o heal. Hopefully Sam will follow suit.
I loved Garth in this one but the jury is still out on Garth being the new Bobby. Give him credit for stepping up and doing a job that had to be filled for now anyway. BUT Garth will never be Bobby. I'm torn about Garth using Bobby's words and mannerisms I SO WANT BOBBY BACK!
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2012-11-12 12:59
Thanks Amy, that was beautifully said. I do think Adam Glass has redeemed himself with this one. The monster story took a back seat to the angsty brother stuff, and that was great to me. And I really liked Garth. I mean, I've liked him before, but the fact that he stepped up to the plate and took up the slack when Bobby disappeared (I will never forgive, can't say it enough) :cry: made him that more likable in my eyes.

I love the little speaches you would say to both brothers, but most especially this :“It felt like my world imploded and came raining down on me and I ran.” This is what Dean needs to hear. Dean has always had abondonment issues and Sam knows this. Yeah, I love the angst, but the bros need to realize once and for all, they belong together!
Amywould
# Amywould 2012-11-12 13:33
Gotta ask this: If Sam told Dean what he told Amiela...would Dean view him as weak?

Hell...Does Sam view himself as weak for reacting that way? Wouldn't he feel ashamed for running? Would Sam want to admit to Dean how weak he is?

Especially since Dean survived Purgatory...the worst kind of hell ever.

Wouldn't it be easier to let Dean hate sam then know the truth? Especially since Dean now claims Benny as the bestest brother ever...one WHO DIDN"T run when things got tough?

No matter what I honestly do think that Sam feels no matter what he tells or doesn't tell Dean .. Dean will either hate him or see him as weak and inferior. And a bigger problem is Sam has to LIVE with his actions or lack of actions himself. I think Sam would be ashamed of himself and despise his own weakness.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-12 13:53
No I don't think he would see Sam as weak for being devastated at the loss of Dean and I don't believe for a second Dean hates Sam. Angry yes, disappointed yes, hurt yes, hate? No. Dean understands that level of grief. He's been there.
emmau
# emmau 2012-11-12 13:56
I think that's an interesting point, Amywould. I don't know that Dean would view Sam as weak as much as Sam would fear that Dean would view him as such. He does have a habit of projecting his feelings onto others. I think Sam fears being out of control, and he could come to view his reaction to Dean's disappearance as weak and be ashamed. We've seen in the past that Sam is willing to take responsibility for things that are not his fault (i.e., roboSam's actions) because it's easier for him to do so than to admit that he wasn't in control of his actions.

So it does seem possible to me that Sam might think it better to let Dean think he didn't look rather than he couldn't face the situation and emotionally ran away. I don't think it is, because I think Dean would be more sympathetic to the idea that Sam had broken down. As it stands now, he thinks Sam just didn't care enough to try to find/help him. No wonder Benny looks more solid to Dean at this point. But for Sam, that seems to be preferable than talking to Dean about what happened to him while he was away. Dean's avoiding talking about his life or death struggle and what happened with Cas, and Sam's avoiding discussing his own issues and sticking with, "I finally found time for the good things in life." Oh, Winchesters.

I think Sam would find himself in a no-win situation here of his own design. I don't think he wants Dean angry with him, but at the same time his little brother issues won't allow him to let himself be seen as less than strong and in control in Dean's eyes. Right now, it seems as if Sam prefers Dean's anger to Dean's pity. I'm not sure he's really grasping how much he's wounded Dean and himself with that choice.

**Of course, this is all based upon the assumption that there is more to the situation than our current perceptions. If Sam's "I told you why I didn't look" is the first and last word, I'm not sure where we're going. But at the moment, I like considering your theory more.
Rebecca RGNYC
# Rebecca RGNYC 2012-11-12 17:27
Love your comments! I know Sam is really angry that Dean lied about Benny (lying by omission, you know?) His anger at Dean at the end of Slash Fiction was the same--not so much that he killed Amy but that he lied about it (by not telling him). Thanks for your review! -RG
st50
# st50 2012-11-14 17:29
I rewatched this, in preparation for tonights episode, and you know what I really want to know?
Did the poor asthma guy EVER get his inhaler? Deputy was supposed to be getting it before he shot the sheriff. Now, I just picture the poor guy lying, gasping in his jail cell....
:eek:
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-14 17:36
OH MY GOSH! Now I'm wondering about that too! :cry:
st50
# st50 2012-11-14 17:58
Yeah, poor guy...

And I still read that last exchange the same way I did the first time (and 2nd).

Since Sam had just said Dean "didn't need the penny to say those things", he feels Dean really is hanging on to those resentments.
Dean has also pretty much admitted that he won't kill Benny, regardless....
So, I read Sams line as more "be prepared to add one more thing to your list of 'betrayals', because if he slips, and I'm around, I'm going to have to kill him."

And not so much as a threat or to intentionally flare up the argument again.