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‘Abandon all hope, you who enter!’
 
- Dante Alighieri’s inscription at the entrance to Hell
  
We don’t know much about hell. In Supernatural’s universe it is a place where one month becomes a decade. It is a ‘prison made of bone and flesh and blood and fear.’ It is ‘a pit of despair’, where human souls are turned into demons via endless years of agony.
 
All we have seen of hell are a few peeks, as Dean, after being torn up by hellhounds, hung suspended from hooks violently forced through his wrists and ankles, shoulder and abdomen, screaming for help and for the one soul who meant everything to him – Sam. No one heard him. No one cared. Another glimpse of hell was given by flashbacks Dean experienced when he awoke in his coffin, remembering fragments of his time there – his panic stricken, wide open eyes, blood everywhere, accompanied by jarring screams.
 
And we are aware of what he told Sam: ‘…they sliced and carved and tore at me in ways that you… until there was nothing left. And then suddenly, I would be whole again, like magic. Just so they could start in all over. And Alistair… at the end of every day, every one, he would come over and he would make me an offer: to take me off the rack, if I put souls on. If I started the torture. And every day I told him to stick it where the sun shines… For thirty years I told him. But then I couldn’t do it anymore, Sammy, I couldn’t… And I got off that rack. God help me, I got right off and I started ripping them apart. I lost count of how many souls. The things that I did to them… … how I feel? This…. inside me… I wish I couldn’t feel anything, Sammy. I wish I couldn’t feel a damn thing.’
 
We don’t need to become familiar with any more details. To watch Dean and his reactions to the memories coming over him is more than enough. And, frankly, does anyone of us really want to know what the demons of hell did to him? What ever it was – it changed Dean profoundly. The man who returned from hell was still, essentially, Dean Winchester, loving brother and hunter of the paranormal, but he was also a broken, stunned and devastated survivor of torture. Being that, his reaction to an abnormal and unspeakable experience was absolutely normal and natural – in clinical terms it is described as posttraumatic stress.
 
Before explaining more about that, I will take a look at torture and the psychology of it. I believe it imperative to understand the phenomenon to be able to realize what it does to a person subjected to torture.
 
The invasion of torture
 
An official United Nations document, the ‘Manual on Effective Investigation and Documentation of Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment’, known as the ‘Istanbul Protocol’, describes it as follows:

‘One of the central aims of torture is to reduce an individual to a position of extreme helplessness and distress that can lead to a deterioration of cognitive, emotional and behavioural functions. Thus, torture is a means of attacking an individual’s fundamental modes of psychological and social functioning. Under such circumstances, the torturer strives not only to incapacitate physically a victim but also to disintegrate the individual’s personality. By dehumanizing and breaking the will of its victims (…) torture can profoundly damage intimate relationships between spouses, parents, children and other family members and relationships between the victims and their communities.’
 
The disintegration of Dean’s personality happened over the course of three decades, and eventually he did what he (given normal circumstances) never would have even considered while alive: torture others to save himself. The Dean we got to know throughout this show would have rather died. 
 
The World Medical Association defined torture in its ‘Declaration of Tokyo’ as this: ‘the deliberate, systematic or wanton infliction of physical or mental suffering by one or more persons acting alone or on the orders of any authority, to force another person to yield information, to make a confession, or for any other reason.’
 
The declared goal of Alistair and his torturing bunch was not to get information of any kind, but to get Dean to break the first seal, to start the apocalypse. That’s what they needed him to do (but, of course they did not tell him. It’s safe to assume, given what we know about Alistair, that he tortured Dean without even telling him why. Torture is commonplace in hell, usually without any further purpose. And, eventually, they managed to weaken Dean enough to get him to pick up the blade and be the ‘righteous man’ who ‘sheds blood in hell’, thereby ‘jumpstarting the apocalypse.’
 
The human body is the one place where we know our privacy and inviolability to be safe. We are in control of it (as far as that is possible, of course). We decide how to dress it, feed it and in which manner to take care of it. It is our own country, one we take with us wherever we go.

During torture, this safe region is invaded and violated by acts of perverted intimacy, as the pain is inflicted via e.g. physical methods, psychological, pharmacological, but also sexual violence. It is done repeatedly, often publicly. The sadistic, deliberate manner in which torture is administered results in long-lasting, often irreversible and devastating effects to the victim’s body and soul, as the torturer invades the sufferer’s psyche to claim his mind, bereft of any control or freedom.
 
Torture is a means to destroy a person’s soul and directed towards establishing a profound sense of powerlessness and terror in victims. As the human soul often possesses a huge amount of resilience, it might take some time to be broken.  With Dean the demons needed three decades. And just as in real life medical personnel often participating during sessions of torture ensure that the victim will live long enough, the demons made Dean ‘whole again, like magic, just so they could start in all over’.
 
Surviving torture long enough will often culminate in the sufferer’s change of his exegesis of reality. Everything he believed to be true will be twisted, and the victim will be open to be indoctrinated by the torturer’s view and goals. Before that the victim will have experienced depersonalization and derealization, often hallucinations and dissociation, basically strategies of the human mind to construct a kind of alternative reality to mentally survive horrific periods such as torture.  In the course of which the victim’s identity will begin to fragment and anything he held on to will eventually crumble under perpetual agony.  When the sufferer is deprived of other human interaction, he will often bond with the tormentor, sometimes trying to become one with him (what psychologists call introject).
 
Alistair and Dean probably formed a dyad – we know only of Alistair torturing Dean, which is considered to be one very effective method of torture as it produces interdependency between tormentor and victim, another perverted form of intimacy.
 
Eventually the sufferer will swallow the torturer’s view of him and plans for him – for instance, believing that he has ‘such promise’ and that he should become a torturer himself. And sometimes inflicting torture can serve as a strategy to reclaim control over one’s life, as a means to – however twisted – regulate their self-worth.

After having changed during thirty years of agony, Dean had to find a way to survive mentally – not realizing, though, that he was giving his mental stability away by succumbing to Alistair’s offer. He perhaps did not see that he most likely channelled his humiliation, agony, aggression, fear into inflicting pain, a misplaced venting: ‘I tortured souls and I liked it. All those years. All that pain. Finally getting to deal some out yourself. I didn’t care who they put in front of me. Because that pain I felt… it just slipped away.’
 
In his case, for a while, Dean found relief by putting others through agony. It is safe to assume that he did not think about his former self’s conscience. His psyche will have provided him with ‘liking’ what he did, in order to protect him from realizing what he was doing, which is a form of suppression. His deeds might have surfaced later, back in life, haunted by screams he caused – which is evidence that hell had not yet managed to really turn Dean, that the values he held dear were still there, now providing the kind of torture only guilt is able to muster up.
 

Comments  

elenaM
# elenaM 2010-01-05 00:47
*shivers* As ever, your professional perspective on these characters is fascinating. I remember getting chills during H&H at the panic on Dean's face when the angels threatened to hurl him back, and when he called Uriel's bluff on the matter... That ep had its issues, but imho its moments too...
B.
# B. 2010-01-05 03:18
A really terrific, insightful article. You know, last season I was reading some fan comments on various sites saying Dean just needed to 'get over it'. I didn't know what to think, except that whoever was writing the comments had probably never met someone trying to recover from a traumatic experience. Like yourself I was in awe of just how much effort the writers (and JA) had put into making the responses of Dean completely realistic and believable.

Thanks again for the article!

BTW, I'll be really interested to see what your take is on the new episode coming up...
:D
Faellie
# Faellie 2010-01-05 04:41
Jasminka, I'm stunned by that. You've set it all out so clearly, and it makes complete sense.

You make me grateful for the safe life I lead. UN Conventions and medical protocols don't get developed in a vacuum: torture really is going on every day and people are trying to live through it, and its aftermath. Respect to you for your part in helping them with that.

Your article makes me wonder if domestic violence would be better understood, and dealt with, if it were renamed along the lines "relationship torture". Maybe that's already in the textbooks, but it's not a connection I'd made so clearly before reading your article.

Thank you.
Narcissus
# Narcissus 2010-01-05 07:11
I honestly have no idea what to say after reading this. Thank you so very much for this insight Jas.
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-05 09:58
elenaM, B., Faellie and Narcissus, thank you, indeed. I’m actually somewhat taken aback that Alice posted this today, our editor-in-chief does not cease to surprise me…

elenaM, even though I deal with those issues within my work, I still get the shivers, too, when I hear what people are capable of doing unto others. It can be demonic, really, and that it became a ‘demonic issue’ in this show kind of seems organic.
That panic on Dean’s face you refer to… gosh, yes, pages of dialogue in that one instant. How did Jensen become such a fine actor, the guy seems far too young for that kind of ability…

B., you’re right, someone who claims that Dean needed ‘to get over it’ truly has no idea about what it means to get over any kind of trauma. Perhaps, though, those who say that might express their own fear of the phenomenon of trauma. You know, ‘if I treat it as if it was nothing, then it will be so’… Or, it might just be sheer ignorance. Who knows. Many people indeed have no concept of the matter. So they, at least, have been safe in a way – not having experienced trauma nor knowing someone who did (worst case scenario: a loved one affected).

Faellie, so far there is no clinical concept of ‘relationship torture’, as far as I know, we usually subsume that under domestic abuse or abusive relationships (sometimes in the neighborhood of Stockholm Syndrome, given the symptoms, of course). But, you’re right, it is a connection that cannot be ignored.
You know, I still feel shocked at times when I learn of atrocities I haven’t known of, yet, and I’ve heard of plenty. I like that, though, it shows that I haven’t grown numb to it, and I need to stay sharp to be able to do my job well.
Thanks for your acknowledgement . I love this job, even though it’s often exhausting, and then switching between languages, you know, but I’m glad to be able to offer some help. It’s little enough. My patients are the ones who need to do the hard work of getting on with their lives. Or, when they’re sick, to prepare for the end. I’m only there for a small part of their path. They are the ones who deserve a huge amount of respect. These people actually teach me a lot about courage every day.

Narcissus, I know, it’s tough stuff. Sometimes no words are necessary.

Thanks so much, folks!
!
# ! 2010-01-05 13:20
Hi, Jasminka,

An excellent piece, thank you for sharing your true experience in working in this field.

I too have read comments by people from last season saying that Dean should get over it and stop whining. That always amazed me. Get over it?! Really?! How does one just do that? If anything, I would have loved to see more angst...but, true to Kripke's excellent story telling ways, less is more and I can go back and find clues in many of S4 episodes that I missed before...they'r e small but significant all the same.

There is still much angst ahead for both brohters, a fact that I think our first new eppie is going to highlight, I love Winchester angst and I'm thinking we're going to get a double helping right off the bat.

Thanks for writing.
elle2
# elle2 2010-01-05 13:21
Okay, the above post (!) said is from me, Elle2. I'm a bit quick with my typing and must have hit something I didn't intend. So, that's from me.

Elle2
Evelyn
# Evelyn 2010-01-05 14:00
Thank you for a wonderful and very insightful article Jas. Being a survivor myself of childhood abuse, I could really relate to many of the things you said. Thanks.

Also, a thought occurred to me. I remember reading something somewhere that a future episode will explain to us why Dean is so resistant to becoming Michael's vessel. And I wonder if his experience of being totally helpless (at the mercy of others) during his time in hell isn't a part of the reason why he doesn't want to become a vessel. Because, if he does say 'Yes' to Michael, he is once again, becoming helpless and at the mercy of Michael. And then seeing what he will become once Michael leaves his body (as described by Cas in FTBYAM upon seeing Raphael's empty vessel) he doesn't really want to go through that kind of pain again. I know for me, as a child at the hands of my abuser, I had no control over what was done to me, and even now, I avoid situations or circumstances that would mean I could lose that control. (I hope that makes sense) So, with Dean, if he were to succumb to Michael, he would once again lose that control - and that is not something he is really ready or wanting to do at this point. Plus he might not be able to survive it this time, physically, mentally or emotionally.
Randal
# Randal 2010-01-05 14:05
Alright, I've tried *three* times to leave a comment thanks to intermittent power at work, so I'll just say wonderfully exceptional article, Jas.
Bevie
# Bevie 2010-01-05 14:51
You continue to amaze me Jas, with your insight and professional expertise in your articles.

Also I find Jensen amazing in his ability to portray the nuances of Dean's traumatizing experiences and their aftermath in such a subtle and perfectly conveyed manner. I also think of the moment he recognizes Alistair and the revulsion in his expression to be again facing his tormentor and also his expression when Castiel threatened to send him back to hell. I could feel his horror. He does all that without needing words.

I hope he never says yes to Michael. He has given so much of himself I sincerely hope he can (with Sam) overcome without becoming a meat suit. But I have no control over that. It is up to Kripke and the other creators of this awesome series.
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-05 15:41
Elle2(!), Randal and Bevie - wow!

Elle2, thank you. I do have to concur with B. here, as people who said that Dean should have stopped whining didn’t really know what they were talking about (on the other hand, we cannot expect everyone to be familiar with that). Yes, it is a fictional story and the character is not real. However, the creative team here manage to bring us a story that keeps its psychological continuity like hardly any other show I ever watched. Tackling topics like that – torture, war, loss, abuse (remember Max Miller?), religious fanaticism et al – is pretty gutsy in tv-show terms.
Less is indeed more, and Jensen lets it out with the tiniest of nuances… and yet conveying the whole devastated state Dean is in. The man is one of the most talented actors I’ve seen in a long time.

I’m equally excited about the upcoming episode. Supernatural’ s very own cuckoo’s nest… I bet there will be a hell of a lot of angst for the brothers, no pun intended.

Randal, thank you, hope the power at work did not overpower your good humour and spirit…

Bevie, thanks for your kind words. Jensen is indeed heartbreakingly amazing. I also hope that both brothers will not have to say yes to becoming angelic ‘condoms’, as Dean so wryly put it. I think, though, that the glorious basterds, Kripke & Co, will hardly spare us. There is, after all, a lot of potential in that story line, and both, Jensen and Jared, would have great opportunities to strengthen their acting muscles, and a part of me wants to see that. Another part dreads it. Losing Ellen and Jo was soul shattering enough. The brothers as angels at one another’s throat… oh, ye Gods, I don’t know… it would be surely fantastic to watch, but devastating as well.

Thanks! Jas
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-05 15:42
Evelyn, gosh, how brave of you to tell us about your horrific childhood experience. I’m deeply touched.

Of course, being in control is crucial after having experienced the utter lack of control in a situation that damaged your sense of being the ‘master of your fate’. What you’re saying absolutely makes sense! And so does what you say about Dean’s reluctance of becoming Michael’s vessel.
I haven’t heard about that future episode you’re referring to, but one possible reason for Dean’s ‘No’ might well be what you explained based on your own experience. I’m curious about how the writers will give us that story. (Do you have any idea, which episode that might be?)

Evelyn, that those moments from your past still make you avoid situations or circumstances that could endanger you of losing control is no wonder. Please remember, though, that you did survive. Something within you kept your spirit safe, wounded as it might have been. To know that you were able to go on after such a terrible time can wonderfully serve as a bolster for future difficulties in life (we all know that life is hard and when you think that it’s okay now, it will throw a stone in your way, right?).
If you were able to survive the kind of hell you mentioned, then you’ll be able to take on what ever might wait in the dark (but I hope that there is nothing bad waiting!! …just in case).
It’s not the worst thing to know about oneself. Believe me, I know. I’ve had my share of tragedy in my life (albeit of a different kind), and being aware that there is strength in my soul is comforting and inspiring. Never forget what strong colours you call your own. They bring forth light when darkness might creep up.

Thank you for entrusting us here with so intimate a story. Best always, Jas.
BagginsDVM
# BagginsDVM 2010-01-05 17:52
Wow, Jas, just wow. Thanks for such a powerful insight into such a difficult topic. I sometimes must treat abused animals, & all I can offer them is love & patience & try to earn their trust. I don't know that I'd have the ability to help human victims of torture work their way through overcoming it, & I am so glad that there are people like you who can.
Dawn
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-05 18:12
Thank you so much, Dawn. You know, my patients are the ones doing the hardest work here. They need to find the courage to seek help, to open up, to allow a stranger to see them at their weakest (which is, to my experience, in particular difficult for men opening up to a younger woman),… It always moves me when they do, but all I can do, actually, is ask the right questions, provide comfort and shelter to some extent, and listen. It’s not much, really, compared to what they have to do to get a better life. Yet, thank you. Jas.
Freebird
# Freebird 2010-01-05 18:59
Jas, this was an amazing article!!! I have been wondering a lot about Dean's dealing with the pain, and love how the writers and Jensen deliver it. We got a lot of PTSD-patients here in Croatia, people who have experienced the war, and I always say that we all are in a way 'damaged', but I like your 'survivor' better.
Dean not being able to talk about what he had gone through in hell was kinda intriguing to me. I have met several survivors, and still do - soldiers, prisoners of war, refugees. My observation is that, back then while the war was still going on and the first couple of years after it had ended, they all talked. Whether it would be friends, neighbours or just strangers I would meet at the bus station, they all talked about the horrible things that had happened to them. Later, as time went by (it's been 15 years now since the end of the war), people talk less and less - and instead, as you described, the trauma seems to come forth by means of drug / alcohol / medication misuse and apathy.
During the war I once sat in a cafe and a stranger in a soldier's uniform sat at my table, offering me a drink. Apparently he had a 'day off' from the battlefield, and just came to town for a drink. Then he started to talk. I don't recall what he was telling me and I had no idea how to respond, so I just sat there and listened. When he finished, he thanked me for listening and said goodbye. I had friends at the battlefield and on first occasion told them about this, asking about what I could do, what to say? Their response was: Nothing. Just listen.
This event burned into my brain. So, watching Dean being mute, I couldn't help wanting to tell him 'Talk, dude! Get it out of your system!' After all, he has Sam and Bobby, don't need any stranger in a bar.
Jas, you definitely touched a nerve of mine with your article, and I'm grateful for that. Dean, and Sam for that matter, would be lucky to meet you! And me, too ;-) for I'd give them the biggest comforting hug and ear to listen they'd ever get :-)
All the best!
Lara
Ardeospina
# Ardeospina 2010-01-05 20:39
Amazing article, as always, Jas. Thanks so much for sharing your expertise with us!
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-06 05:19
Freebird, thank you. And thank you for sharing those moments. Believe me, I concur completely.
Apart from various other trauma-affected patients, or German policemen, soldiers et al, I often have patients of all former-Yugoslav nationalities here (well, it comes with speaking several languages, and there seems to be a lack here of trained therapists who do, so they’re often sent to me). I haven’t met one single person from there who has not been affected by the war. I affects me, too. There is hardly anything worse than civil war.

My parent emigrated from YU in the early sixties, long before I was born. My mom came from Zagreb, my dad from a small town in Bosnia, and, so we learned, all of my dad’s family was killed during a raid which makes me the sole survivor of my gene pool. We happened to be in Croatia in the beginning of the war there, and I very distinctly remember the sound of grenades hitting buildings.

It has made me a better therapist, I believe, as I can relate to those events more. I know how gunfire sounds or the smell of blood, and I understand my patients better. I’m very grateful for that.

You’re right, you know. Listening is one of the most important things here. Aside from all those therapeutic techniques and methods I was trained to apply to help people, I find the most important asset – to be able to just listen, even though it can be overwhelming at times. But who am I to complain? I have time to invest in watching a tv-show and rambling about it, as opposed to struggling to get my family fed every day. I lead a more-or-less safe life, I’m healthy, I have a job I love and wonderful people in my life – they, sometimes, have lost all that. Doing this job is a very humbling experience, I realize now again for the umpteenth time.

You know, I guess it might have even been easier for Dean to open up to some stranger in a bar. Then he would not have had to fear Sam’s reaction or take care of not overcharging him. Can you believe that we’re talking about these characters as if they were real? One could get crazy thinking about that… I’ve love to give away a dozen Pulitzers to the writers for the authenticity alone.

Lara, thank you.
Jas
Sablegreen
# Sablegreen 2010-01-06 10:45
Great article Jas. You and I do think much alike. Yes, listening to someone, and letting them talk at there own speed in their own time, has more benefits than most would think. And yes, it is much easier to talk to a stranger sometimes, than to a loved one. Strangers are 'safe' as they don't know you well enough to prejudge. Dean did that twice in the series, once to Cassie, and the second time to Gordon. One plus, one minus...guess the third time must be the charmer! :D
Evelyn
# Evelyn 2010-01-06 12:16
Jas, thank you for your kind words and wisdom. Yes, I came out of my situation stronger than ever and realized that I have more strength than I thought. In my belief all that strength came from God to help get me through my trauma and the continued lingering effects. It never goes away. It becomes a part of you and who you are.

So, in the relation to this show, Dean's character, I can really empathize for what he is going through and feel and understand his pain, anger and lack of self-esteem. The writers have written him so beautifully and Jensen (well, what can I say about Jensen that hasn't already been said), he has portrayed this pain and angst so touchingly. All the nuances involved in the psyche with this trauma have been played out very well. And it's lovely to see that Dean is also now realizing the strength within himself. I cannot wait to see how the writers end this season when God comes into the picture. It will be very interesting to see how they treat that and what Dean's (the guy who doesn't believe) reaction will be.

As for the aforementioned upcoming episode where they explore why Dean refuses to say no. I cannot remember where I read that. It could have been a rumor that someone just thought they would post. It might have been on Spoiler TV. I wish I could remember or find it. I could be wrong but if they do do an episode like that it will be very interesting.

As for the upcoming episode on the 21st, I am so very much looking forward to that. There are still so many issues under the surface with the brothers and from the synopsis, it sounds like some of those may be explored. It should be a great episode. Can't wait! Is it Jan 21st yet? :-)
Freebird
# Freebird 2010-01-06 12:45
Jas, thank you. You're right, we are so lucky to lead a normal, apple-pie life, I mean, sure, everyone carries one's own cross, but still: if we can invest our time in an in-depth look of a tv show, then we are lucky.
I know, talking about Dean and Sam as they were real is ... aehm ... surreal :-? I find myself often wondering if there's anything wrong with me. And then read articles like yours, and Alice's, and Bardic Voice's, and know that I'm actually quite okay, and lucky to be part of the SPN fandom. Because, apart from the supernatural stuff (which attracted me to the show in the first place, I'm a sucker for that), everything else seems so real that it actually answers questions I have been asking myself, and motivates to take a closer look into my own life. Geeky, huh?
Jas, thanks for sharing your story. You know, I'm a Gastarbeiter-ki d myself :-) born and raised in Germany, but my family returned home when I was in High school. But I still feel at home in Germany, actually am going there on Saturday, on business and visiting friends. I understand it's like on the North Pole there right now? *shudder*
Have a great day!
Lara
Freebird
# Freebird 2010-01-06 12:59
Evelyn, I recall reading about that future episode, too, somewhere, sometime ... not sure, but I think it was an interview with someone, somewhere ... I'm not of much help, am I?
Thanks for sharing your story, Evelyn, what a brave thing to do. It made me think of a quote from the movie 'Into the wild': "I read somewhere... how important it is in life not necessarily to be strong... but to feel strong." Wish you a huge feeling of strong!
All the best!
Lara
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-06 16:16
Ardeospina and Sablegreen, thank you, gals!
What do you think, Sablegreen, who might be the charmer that makes number three? I’d like to give the brothers a bit love, you know, bring in a nice woman for each of them, if only for an episode… oh, well, a fan can dream, right? I’d love to see Sarah again… again… dream on, girl… :oops: Jas
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-06 16:19
Evelyn and Freebird, touched.

Evelyn, I’m delighted for you that you found a source of strength in faith. Everyone need such a source, and sometimes it’s hard to find. Now, I’m not a fan of Nietzsche, but he said one important and very true sentence once: ‘What does not kill me only makes me stronger’.

I also can hardly wait for the next episode! Hey, remember how we started this hiatus? Now it’s only two weeks to go…. And I bet we won’t be disappointed…

Lara, why should there be anything wrong with you….? I think the authenticity of the characters and their relationships are the key to the success of this show. Apart from the paranormal stuff, this is how people within extreme circumstances might act or react. I believe they can also serve as role models in a way or inspire people to remember their own strength and courage (which holds true for those patients of mine who are fans (every once in a while one emerges), and we have used the show in therapy… wonder what Kripke would say if he knew that?).

Well, you better pack warm clothes. Here it’s -15 C tonight (for the life of me, I can’t think of the Fahrenheit equivalent), and we have enough snow to force me to get up very early (she cringed helplessly) to clean it…

Well, happy freezing everyone, Jas
Sablegreen
# Sablegreen 2010-01-06 16:47
Silly question Jas....ME! :D :D :D
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-06 17:10
Even sillier... Sablegreen,how about a deal- you get Dean, I get Sam... Don't make me get out my zombie aligator, girl... :lol: :lol: :lol: Jas
Sablegreen
# Sablegreen 2010-01-06 17:31
Don't need to think about that one at all...deal!! Although I was half tempted to decline just to see the zombie aligator! :twisted:
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-06 17:58
oh, well, Sablegreen, how glad I am that we're in agreement here... Would have had to ask Suze about that undead animal anyway... I'd have a zombie neighbour, though (the guy surely looks the part). Well,then, we have a deal, now I can sleep.... :roll:: Jas
Karen
# Karen 2010-01-06 23:04
Hi Jasminka
Wow! What can one say. I couldn’t begin to listen to the atrocities of what these people have lived thru, without becoming a blubbering mess. These patients would be consoling me at the end of the session. I commend you on your line of work and your ability to help them.
What Dean went thru is just unimaginable. How could one not come back and not be changed or damaged in some way. I think they displayed the effects perfectly. Even his hesitation to go after Lilith, always telling Sam they need to pick the right moment, where as before he would have been going full force into finding her. In Yellow Fever how terrified he was when Lilith showed up. I know the Ghost sickness was the cause of this, but it did emphasize what Dean feared the most, Sam turning evil and returning to Hell and facing Lilith again.
And I think it brings to light what Sam must have been thinking and feeling for Dean.
Seeing his brother going from Hans Solo and/or Indiana Jones to a shadow of what he was. Seeing his brother break down for probably the first time in his life. No wonder he couldn’t let go of the idea that Dean wasn’t strong enough to defeat Lilith.
Thanks again Jas.
Evelyn
# Evelyn 2010-01-07 12:40
Alas, someone else remembers reading about a future episode delving into why Dean refuses to say 'yes' to Michael. Thanks Freebird, I do believe it was in an interview (might have been with Sera). Also, thanks for your kind words. The biggest lesson I learned is that we all have more inner strength than we realize.

And as Sablegreen aptly put it, yes, strangers are easier to talk to, more so than family (at least it was for me). I would be most happy and delighted to be one of those 'strangers' for Dean. I think I could relate and would relish the 'virtual opportunity'. :D

Karen, I agree with you about the fears that were brought up in Yellow Fever. I hadn't really thought about that episode in that way, but yes, it really did bring up all his inner fears. Generally, I have a problem with that episode being as to how passive Sam and Bobby seemed to act and react in saving Dean. I thought they should have seemed more concerned than they were. But, I guess the point was to bring up Dean's fears - I'll now rewatch that episode from a different point of view.

Stay warm everyone. It seems Mr. Winter has arrived everywhere.
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-07 16:29
Karen, thank you so much for your acknowledgement ! It took me a lot of training to get where I am and to be able to do this job. Luckily my patients differ, and not everyone of them underwent a treatment comparable to that I described here. Tomorrow, for instance, I’ll be climbing several flights of stairs of an observation tower with a girl who’s afraid of heights. Up and down, up and down… Looking forward to that, actually, as it will allow me to skip my evening workout in favour of a movie, haha…

I think you noticed very sensitively those nuances in YellowFever’s Dean. So did Sam, and he really thought he needed to save Dean by killing Lilith, ah, well, it’s been discussed so many times. I just remember some fans getting mad about Sam going on his ‘wrong’ path and not accepting why he was doing it… I can imagine Sam being hardly able to bear the change in Dean. It must have scared him big time, since Dean had become something else than the cocky big brother he had looked up to all his life.

Evelyn, I can’t imagine one fan here who would not welcome the ‘virtual opportunity’ to give Dean some comfort… as long as I get Sam onto my virtual couch, I’m okay with that… (that would be my living room, not my office, come on :o

And yes, Evelyn, it's freezing. I'd love to kick Winter out of our hemisphere, I'm more a spring girl... oh well, it's already January... Won't take long...
8-) Jas
Jasminka
# Jasminka 2010-01-21 16:19
Hey, Clarice, it’s so nice to hear that you liked this! Sometime people actually do look up older posts? Wow, that’s great! Thanks a lot for your acknowledgement !! Cheers, Jas