Why Kripke Wants To Do More Meta Episodes
This is for MyMadWorld, who reminded me that I did let something slide. I should have done this a while ago, but things got REALLY crazy after Comic Con and I figured everyone had heard this quote from the Comic Con panel. Apparently a few had not so I dug out my video of the panel and found this quote when a fan asked him about “The Monster At The End of This Book.” This is exactly how that episode came to be, why they like doing meta episodes, and why more are on the way. I know for a fact episode 5.09 is a meta episode.
From the words of the Master:
(The Monster At The End of This Book) was Nancy Weiner’s who is our writer’s assistant, it was her idea, totally, it didn’t come from any of our heads. She showed up one day and wanted to do a stranger than fiction episode in which Sam and Dean find out that they’re characters in a book. And then we laughed and said “no that’s impossible.” It’s one of those stories that kept floating around…this is actually how the writers process works. So we have the idea and we kick it around and we say its impossible and forget it and there’s certain ideas we just can’t shake.
It was actually me going into Sera’s office and saying “why is this guy writing this book, is he one of the psychic kids and I can’t figure out why he would do it,” and then she said “Why don’t you make him a prophet?” which was Sera’s idea. And then it all of a sudden snapped into focus because it tied into the mythology. We have a lot of fun being self deprecating. We’re aware of our faults and the scenes in our bunny costume as much as anybody and its sort of fun to poke fun at the show. And again I have such a tempetuous, loving, conflicted relationship with the online fandom that I also was attracted to possibility to also poke a little, loving fun, very loving fun, please don’t hurt me.
And then Chuck became so attractive that when Ben and I were breaking the season finale Ben said we gotta bring back Chuck and he flew so seemlessly into the season opener. On the board there’s more meta episodes on the way because we had so much fun that I think there will be more.
That was the exact same message Kripke was giving in the press room too. So remember, the more grief you give this man online fans, the more its going to end up as a parody now on the show. I sometimes wonder if that’s the intention of all this online controversy. I’m still waiting for him to poke fun at the blogger that ends up overanalyzing the show way too much and giving up hours of her day just to post articles about things that were just never there. Please Kripke? A girl can dream. 
Oh thank you, thank you, thank you Alice! I’ve been checking back every so often to see if you answered my question and imagine my ‘squee’ when I saw the article title! Then an out & out screech when I saw my name! I am so pathetic! I have limited time to lurk so I had not checked out any other Comic Con articles – I really enjoyed your coverage of the event.
Perhaps Kripke will call his episode Alice in Wonderland in your honour! Or maybe Go Ask Alice??
Keep dreaming girl.
Hi Alice
I hadn’t read/heard about this either, so thanks for posting this.
I have no problem with Kripke poking fun at this fandom.
I’m always joking with my daughter about how obsessed I am with this show.
I believe you have to be able to laugh at yourself and not take yourself too seriously.
I think most fans will take it in stride and laugh.
Of course there will be others offended, thinking Kripke is being disrespectful to them.
However I don’t doubt for a moment that Kripke appreciates the fans. He realizes that if it wasn’t for us there would be no show.
@MyMadWorld…loved the ‘Alice in wonderland’ and the ‘Go ask Alice’ titles.
I think they’re a great idea.
I love the way they take the piss out of us all. We whinge and squabble and carp and generaly give them a hard time – They deserve a bit of revenge!
Kipke can do all the meta episodes he wants! I don’t mind a bit, I actually like those episodes they’re fun!
And let’s face it, sometimes this fandom complains so much that, I think, the meta episodes is Kripke and the writers way of giving us a reality check.
“Alice in wonderland” is a good one but, personally, I would go with “Alice in Supernaturalland”.
Thanks for that, Alice — and MyMADWorld for the question. I’d forgotten this nugget was coming. I think it’s great fun that they do these type of episodes. Some aspects work really well, some (like Becky) make me cringe but the ‘Beckys’ are out there so why not have some fun…those aspects make me cringe anyway why not incorporate it into the show.
Also, more often than not these meta aspects work really well and drive the story, hey, we got Chuck out of the deal and Sam and Dean disgusted at Win-cest…that alone makes it worthwhile.
Thanks, Alice. I for one add my vote to your wish that there be a character who overanalyzes the show…
Hi folks,
bring them on, Eric Kripke.I’m a sucker for meta-episodes, love them! And parody is also a form of acknowledgement… I pity the fan who can’t take parody, as it is so much fun laugh about oneself, too. The world is so serious a place, we don’t need to take ourselves all too serious. And, hey, the loving sideblows the fandom received in this show (from the slash-fan to the tattooed editor) were hilarious, and not mean.
Best wishes, y’all, Jas
Thanks Alice! I hadn’t hear this either. I like the meta episodes too. I always thought Kripke didn’t like his fans at all…..Glad I was wrong. Definitely he is the one who has stoked the fanwars. Maybe it’s to help advertise the show? Any PR is good PR. 🙂
BTW, I was watching a different cable station this weekend, and saw a teaser for Vampire Diaries. Why doesn’t CW advertise Supernatural like that! Any ideas?
Hi Sablegreen,
from what we hear from the people behind and in front of the camera, they all appreciate the passion the fans put into being fans, but there is – of course – a limit to what any sane person might be ready to take.
Perhaps some of the weirdest encounters with fans find their way into the occasional episode.
Maybe someone collects them, and one day a book might come out :’Fans From Heaven and Hell’ or something like that…
I would read it and laugh my head off or remain in a state of shock… I have not imagination enough to think about what some fans might be ready to do…
Before Supernatural appeared on our screens and in another life, I’ve met people who dressed like characters from various shows or plays even (funny, but harmless), who started buying stuff only because a part of the product’s name featured a name of a play (getting a bit weirder), from the falling in love to the dyeing of hair in order to look like a character (okay, harmless), some becoming stalkers and following actors to their supermarkets only to buy the exact same tampons (hello?), and one I know of chose plastic surgery even (highly pathological). I’ve read that there had been a girl who underwent surgery to look like Jensen’s girl? Is that really true or just a hoax?
I guess there’s plenty of material to built hilarious episodes on.
I’ve never felt Kripke and the writers to be disrespectful when making sweet fun of some fans. As for me, he can make fun of us as much as he likes.
Love Jas
Thanks, Jas, for the reminder. I stand corrected. I, too, have hear and seen some of the more unusual fans you talk about. However, most creators don’t put them in their shows. I guess what Kripke used is TAME to what he could have used! 🙂
I always laugh when anything about the fans is mentioned, any allusions or even whole episodes “dedicated” to us. It makes me adore Kripke all the more.
Just a side note: I’m insta-watching Jericho on Netflix, and the guy who plays the Trickster is on it, and he was in the shot why they were asking “why [would the nuclear bomb] Lawrence [Kansas]?” and I was just was like “gasp! SAY IT. SAY IT’S BECAUSE OF THEM.” He didn’t but it was fun in my mind. I can’t think of this bloke as anyone but my fave reccurring character anymore. =P
Oh dear, Sablegreen, I don’t think I want to know about the fan material Kripke could have used…
Be well & happy, Jas
I’m definitely a crazy fan.Friends constantly remind me that the Winchesters are fictional characters and I can’t just bring them up in casual conversation.
I feel like this is definitely the last season, because Kripke is going all out with fanfiction inspired episodes. Rapid Aging? Sam and Dean at a Convention? Alternate Universes? Body switching??? That’s every crazy fangirls fantasy! If JDM makes a cameo I will have to be taken to the emergency room.I might be dead by the time this season is over.
I might’ve collapsed from all the giddy laughter at the allusions to fans in “Monster at the end of this book”, but really, what’s there not to be flattered about? How many shows makes this many references to their fans, how many shows make their fans part of the plot? Fans are what keep the Gospel of Winchester running, afloat among the masses… I kind of liked the implication.
Some of it may be over the top (Becky’s intro scene had me gape in astonishment at the pure audacity of it all), but hell, we can laugh at ourselves from time to time.
I’m pretty obsessed myself – watched every episode, read all the meta, overanalysing, fanfiction-writing (certainly not wincest, 😀 ) kind of obsessed. And I’m not even a fan of TV. Supernatural maybe the only TV show I watch these days. After it’s over, I might as well sell my set.
… On another note, there’s going to be a body-swap fic, er, I mean, episode?? Holy — okay, wow. WOW.
Can anybody actually be COMPLAINING?
Alice,
Your reply to Sablegreen about the “no buzz and a bunch of cranky fans†bugs me. I don’t want to bring that discussion up, believe me, I just don’t understand. What happened to the media attention? The good press? Where have they gone? Is there a tacit law in television that when a show has been running longer than, let’s say three seasons, the positive reactions start to shut down?
I’ve had my share of meeting stange fans (in another lifetime and on planet theatre), but something has changed here, too, I think. The ‘fan culture’ has become something else, hasn’t it? I don’t want to delve into that, either, so I’ll shut up now. You’re absolutely right: let’s just sit back and enjoy the show.
I wish the network would promote the show better. Here, where I live at present, the network that aired Supernatural did practically nothing to advertise the show. It was on air for two seasons only. There was only one magazine devoted to tv-shows (‘TV Highlights’ – highly recommendable, as the people responsible for the mag really love tv shows, which comes across) that ran articles and interviews with the cast. That’s about it. With the multitude of shows on air these days, promotion is crucial – but we all know that. If the CW truly consider launching a sixth season, would advertising it better not be worth the effort?
Ciao, Jas
I have wondered for a while about the drop in ratings for this year. Word of mouth IS what sells a show, and I really wonder why it is not what it used to be.
I have my own ideas, but that’s just me. Too bad we can’t have a NICE discussion about it on this site WITHOUT all those nasties that would show up. 🙁
I love these meta episodes because, as a non-lunatic fan of the show, I feel I am exempt from Kripke & Co.’s loving jabs. 8)
Alice, Sablegreen – hell, yes! Any holodeck available?
I guess many aspects carry weight here. I’m not really familiar with the tv business in the States, but I guess it is not much different compared to the biz in Europe. After all, every company wants to earn money.
I don’t think they actually care how they do that. There’s a huge gap between ‘the suits’ and the creative bunch a show like this wouldn’t be anywhere.
We always feel the love all the people involved with Supernatural put into the quality of the show. You just feel it. Of course, they want to make their living, too, but the fun they have doing it comes across every minute of the show.
Networks don’t tick like that. But their approach to a show, respectively their effort to getting more people glued to a tv screen depends highly on viewer reaction.
Really, Alice, the DVR numbers are down, too? Gosh.
I can’t help but think that a strange and huge change has occured in tv world and the fandom connected to it.
I haven’t been a part of this whole internet-fan-thing for long now, but even I, with the little glimpse I got at it so far, seem to have noticed some significant change.
It’s not only the language used, also the tone of the messages, the atmosphere of it all (can’t think of a plausible term for that, hope you get what I mean)…
And the ball of responsibility is thrown around like in a football match. It has come to a point where a fan like smart, sweet Sablegreen voices her disappointment about us not being able to discuss a matter like that without having to fear the sharpened axes to come up…
I still don’t get it. What happened? I’m just not smart enough to grasp it, I guess.
Some vexation comes into my mix… Alice, is there really no more buzz for the upcoming episode? Isn’t that what giving out an invitation to watch an episode the network itself obviously thinks to be great (why else invite?) is about?
Maybe – should they decide to do that again – they should choose with more care.
Best wishes always,Jas
Just a quickie as I’m supposed to be doing bed-time stories …
I don’t get it either, Season 4 seemed to be scooping up loads of viewers so where did they all slope off to?
My mate Caz has a theory that casual viewers tend to drop off when a show’s story gets too dense and they have to keep up or lose the thread … But that doesn’t really hold water cos S4 was pretty intense too …
Oh-oh, got to go, the natives are revolting …
Hi Alice and Jas,
Alice thanks for updating the ratings article. I check on it every week.
Jas, yes I think there has been a LARGE change in fandom attitude. I understand what you mean about “the tone of the messages, the atmosphere of it all”. Just seems people don’t have enough empathy for each other these days, and, at least for websites, I really think the anonymity the internet provides really sparks attitudes you would not see in person. I really have not noticed that at conventions, but I haven’t been to any in a few years.
As much as I disapprove of those louder fans, I really think they have little influence on viewers. Seems to me, those who partake in the wars would watch the show religiously (no pun intended) to keep up with the fights. And those who didn’t would just leave the sites…not the show.
As for ratings, I worry about the continual drop, and while I’m not sure what demos are, I’m glad there up. Right now, it seems to me that Supernatural has more of cult base than one from the general population. I think in seasons 1, 2 and maybe even 3; its viewers were wider spread over many age groups, not just the 18-49 year olds CW caters too. I’m not in TV land, so really don’t now how the ‘suits’ and creators work together, but if the show is liked, it will be spread by ‘word of mouth’. I really don’t think advertisement has much to do with it. I do think the small size of CW is a plus in getting the show renewed, especially in its timeslot. Although, I really never understood how networks determine which show goes where.
As far as the “if Kripke did this better’ gripers go, hind sight is 20/20. Maybe a different road would have been better and maybe not. He himself said he didn’t think the show would go for 5 years. I think Supernatural did brilliantly in all 4 years…however, for me; it seemed that in each year it appealed to a different type of viewer. With the change is storylines, came a change in viewers…numbers just happened to be the same. The rapid aging story, the body swapping, and more meta episodes hopefully will bring those 600,000 back. The aging one did have a slight increase in viewers.
As for getting back those 2 million the show lost from s1, I know many who watched it early on, and for economical, or personal reasons, stopped and then tried to go back and were lost. They just don’t have the time, or in some cases, the resources to go back and view all the episodes they missed. That is the draw back to a show that has been on for a few years. It’s not like you can first watch it now and in a few episodes catch up, like you could if you started watching in the first or second year. I think this is the biggest draw back to previous viewers coming back and new viewers coming on board. I always hoped CW would take a day, and do a marathon of Supernatural, like back to back episodes from seasons 1 and 2, or that a cable station would buy the first year and start showing it. Seems to me like that would be something profitable for CW and Kripke to do.
I don’t do DVR or, right now, online viewing, but all new technology cost money and I would think in today’s economy that would decrease for all shows and all stations….not just Supernatural. Hopefully, that’s the case.
Okay this has gotten longer than I expected. Sorry for rambling.
Sablegreen, hi,
you can ramble all you want, really, I love to read what you have to say.
You bring up some very interesting and logical points. I hope your right about those fans who just like to go to war as opposed to those who simply love the show (much like us here) and stay away from the websites (not quite like us). In fact, the thought of giving up this whole internet-fan-thing (as I like to call it) because of the sometimes appalling tone of the messages we find at times did cross my mind more than once. A part of me misses the unshaded fun I had in the beginning. But – I’ve met some really sweet people on this site and I would miss the occasional contact via the web. I love the creativity and the support of the show we find here.
I agree with you that the change of the storyarc probably attracted another type of viewer and drove some of the horror-ghost-story-lovers away. Don’t know. Sounds plausible. I know of one fan who stopped watching the show because of the angel-arc. I mentioned her before in another comment I think. I have to explain, though, that she belongs to a very fundamentalist church-group (I, personally, think it some group not unlike a sect), and she went berserk with accusations of blasphemy. What shocked me most was her incapability to discuss that – or to look at the show as only a tv-show. There are many fundamentalist people out there. Perhaps that might be one reason why some fans stayed away. I would like to know whether Kripke & Co get any complaints about that particular storyarc from religious groups. Personally, I can’t agree with any of the complaints I’ve heard, but then again, you can hardly discuss any question even only brushing religion with a person who would have been among the first to send people to burn at the stake in the Middle Ages…
And, yes, people who come to the show now, can’t catch up with the story. A whole lot of important information is lost to them. Were I one of the viewers who look at an Supernatural episode these days and wanted to know more about the show, I would, indeed, not have the time to watch the previous seasons. On weekends, perhaps, but even that would require meticulous planning, as I work a lot, and sometimes my brain just can’t take any more input. So – I’m happy to have discovered Supernatural with the first episode, and I’m happy about the opportunity to watch it online, since it would be impossible here in Europe to get to the show. And the dvds come out.. when… after half of the season is through? Would be hard.
Oh, dear, I rambled just as much…
Take care, Jas.
I have noticed that the amount of quality fanfiction (= no porn, no real people fic, clearly not written by children, good writing) is much smaller in season 5. Many good writers has stopped.
It saddens me but also probably means something. No idea, what.
Well, I personally LOVED Monster at the end of this Book, and didn’t take it as anything but having a little fun with (and at) the fans ’cause this fandom IS sometimes crazy…
I even enjoyed Becky in Sympathy (even though the whole wincest thing is very wrong and eeew IMO), I thought she was funny, esp. the whole “I KNEW IT” bit 😀
So I certainly don’t mind if they give us more meta-eps.
I’m sad about the ratings too and the whole DVR thing. This year especially I expected more since S4 kicked ass (“understatement!” hee) and was hoping that our show would get more buzz and people to watch. The whole not-promoting bit is also pretty dissapointing but considering that it’s been like this since the beginning ( I dunno if SPN was more promoted in the WB times but I suspect it was) and the kinds of shows the CW mostly has (crap if you ask me *whistles with shifty eyes* ) and does promote, it shouldn’t be that suprising. But it’s kinda great that our show has had this many years of fantastic story and thrills even with the little promo (and budget!) it gets (even though, the Oh Death -promo we got this year was pretty freaking fabulous, best.promo.ever). So here’s hoping that both numbers will increase.
The show wasn’t ever a hit in my country. It’s timeslot (esp. these last 2 years) was really, really late and we don’t even know when (or if) s4 is coming here. It also bummed me that when I really got into SPN (spring 2007 methinks), I haven’t since found many fans or active sites here…It’s sad ’cause I feel like I’m in on the best kept secret ever, and I don’t want it to be THAT secret… I like the whole cult -thing but more viewers and more buzz wouldn’t hurt (even here, not just in the States but naturally it weighs more there). Thank god for the net or I would be all alone in my squeeing 🙂
And I agree with Sablegreen and Jas. It’s not easy to ‘jump right in’ if you haven’t been watching in a while. The shows constantly evolving mytharc and character growth is a real blessing to a hardcore fan like me, but then some “once in a while” -fan may get pretty confused pretty fast and just give up rather than try to catch up… or order all the seasons online and have a weeks long marathon (like I did *grin*).
And also I gotta admit, when I fist heard about this show (2006 when it first aired here) I wasn’t that impressed with the idea… better yet, my first actual words were pretty much “2 hot guys in a car, driving around hunting ghosts? No fricking way, don’t wanna see no one-tree-hill meets the x-files -shit”. But man, was I wrong. 🙂 The whole premise ot this show is kinda misleading (I personally hated the whole “scary just got sexy” -promo they kept playing here back in the day) and the short description I keep seeing everywhere isn’t that interesting (and pretty out-dated if u ask me). Of course I’m not expecting TV magazines to post a centerfold dedicated to the sad epic bromance of SamnDean but you get the point. Maybe that is the burden of cult tv shows, maybe that’s ‘why’ they are cult tv shows. You really have to put time and effort to ‘get’ it and stay with it.
A lot of people might mainly want to be entertained by the tube more than, let’s say, have a deep reflecting experience with a ‘fictional’ tv show. And there isn’t anything wrong with that. Hey, there were a lot of tv shows I used to watch just for laughs without any emotional investment from my part and I didn’t feel like I was missing out.
But I’ll stop now with this mindless jabber and go have tea 🙂
I turned someone on to Supernatural earlier this year through downloads from Season 1 onwards, but not everyone has that sort of time to give. So I suspect it’s more difficult the more seasons there are to get new viewers.
And the overpartial fans don’t help. I’m working on one article at the moment that I’ll offer to Alice, and have another in mind, but it’s difficult not to think “Will Sam/Dean fans criticise me for saying this?” Which isn’t the best frame of mind in which to write anything.
I think you’re right, the further along a story is the more effort one needs to catch up and that puts a lot of people off. I can think of loads of shows that I’ve rather liked the sound of but couldn’t find the time to get up to speed with and so never actually seen.
I’m quite getting into True Blood at the moment but I wouldn’t have ever got round to watching it if a friend hadn’t pinned me to the sofa with her enormous dog and force fed me half the first season and got me hooked.
I’m in England and the SPN has no publicety here at all and is buried on a really gormless channel along with millions of half-baked reality shows, so it’s not surprising no-one’s ever heard of it.
It’s a crying shame that the networks that air it don’t do more to turn people on to what a great thing they’re missing but on the whole I’m sort of glad that Kripke and Co. aren’t tieing themselves in knots chasing ratings at the expense of the story.
Faeille … Just write what you want to write and sod the lot of them!
I’m amazed at how many people from this site are NOT in the states! Wonderful that you are all here.
Faellie, I really think the Sam/Dean fans will find reason to criticize no matter what you write. So don’t let that stop you from voicing your opinion. Alice will protect you!!
Jas, I really don’t think the religious theme is a big turn off. Dan Brown did very well with it in his novels, and I know people of all religions who watched it at first. It was other issued that caused them to stop and now can’t catch up. That’s one good thing for s6. Have to start a new story line, so new people can start watching from day one and won’t be lost.
The ‘cult’ fans are great for any show, and if enough can make a difference, but it seems even they have stopped watching. 600,000 is a lot to lose. If you assume, and this is a BIG assumption, that mainly all 3 million viewers from last year started watching SPN from the beginning of the myth arc, why stop now. Don’t see how any new shows would grab that much attention….at least not for cult fans.
Faellie, don’t let the fans in question mess with your head. We love this show. Doesn’t matter if someone feels compelled to dampen that joy (for themselves or others). Just let whatever you’d like to say pour into your article.
Sablegreen,
I hope you’re right about the religious question. That specific reaction of the girl I mentioned really struck me – I couldn’t believe hear arguments from another century coming out of a – seemingly – clever girl’s mouth.
Coming to this site gives us non-US-fans an opportunity to share opinions, and questions, and, as I noticed, respect for each other’s voices. That’s just remarkable.
Take care, Jas
I’m so glad Kripke created this show. The story about two brothers caught up in their quest, traveling the back roads of Americana in their gorgeous classic car listening to the greatest music ever, and saving people along the way from supernatural evil, just clutched my heart. Hearing the show’s signature song just brings a tear to my eye as I imagine our beloved boys resting their weary hearts and heads.
The characters of Sam and Dean Winchester are so completely awesome and lovable and endearing. Their journey is something I follow with bated breath, wanting them to survive, feeling their pain, wanting to soothe their hurts and fears. Kripke struck so much gold with Jared and Jensen, because those two work so hard and make me believe in them. Dean Winchester not real?? Not a chance! No real Sam? Fie! That’s akin to saying there’s no Hamlet, or that Rhett and Scarlett and Atticus Finch and Gus McCrae don’t live and breathe. I care about what happens to these two Winchester boys.
I think Supernatural has a great many fans. The ratings numbers are so narrowly collected; they just don’t reflect the true size of the fandom, domestically and internationally. I also have a feeling a great percentage of the fandom is not online. I think the “quirky” side of the fandom does not represent the majority of fans.
I realize Kripke has been beset by complaints from fans. Doing a television show doesn’t give him the luxury of completing his work of art and then presenting it to fans and critics. He’s got viewers looking over his shoulder and telling him how to create, how to write, while he’s actually trying to complete his creation and his ideas for it. He also has to contend with the network. Not easy. I can understand his probable feelings of dismay at fan backlash.
I consider myself an online fan because I found forums and learned to post on them. Otherwise, I’m pretty much a regular fan, one who schedules her Thursday nights around this show. It’s the only one I do that for. I’m not a teenager. I don’t fall into Dawn’s precious demo; and I don’t watch anything else on the CW.
I don’t write fanfic. I don’t read fanfic. I only learned what wincest was via reading others’ posts. I’ve never read any of it and I think it’s sick. I think it’s disrespectful to write fictional stories using the actual people, Jared and Jensen. I’ve never been to a convention. I never will be. I would never pay for a photo or autograph with the boys. If I ever ran into them on the street, I would neither squeal nor faint nor bother them in any way. I am not a nut.
I do think that a show that has become self-aware is treading dangerous ground. It risks losing its credibility and original genius (which this show had plenty of). You can guess my point. All these meta episodes and fan-poking episodes couldn’t possibly be what Kripke had in mind at the beginning. I can understand a few references to take care of the more rabid section of online fandom. But I truly, from the depths of my respectful soul, think that Kripke is doing his own creation a disservice by letting a small number of fans make him pissed off enough to alter his show in this way. Please, Eric, take back control of your creative genius that was Supernatural. I loved it so.