CW Official EXTENDED Promo for Supernatural 10.22
We have the new extended preview for Wednesday’s episode.
Dean definitely blames Sam for Charlie’s death and goes off on Sam. Crowley “tried to be the good guy”? Cas and Dean have a confrontation. Sam tells someone this is all their fault.
What do you think of this preview? I think it looks pretty intense. Who is Sam blaming for all this? (my bet is Crowley) Will Dean hurt Cas? Tell us in the comments.
I’ve set up a thread to discuss all the spoilers for The Prisoner. If you want to talk about just this preview, this is the place. If you want to talk about everything we know, you can take it over there.
I think it is a promo designed to get people going .
EVERYONE IS BLAMING EACH OTHER…….OH JOY
Oh…this has me soooo excited! I was feeling a bit blah, but now I can’t wait. I love that feeling!
I was wondering why Dean points a standard 9mm at Cas? It’s not like it’s going to kill him, right? Of course, he could shoot Cas and the bullet goes through him only to hit Sam who is behind a few feet. The extended promo looks intense and I’m sure the episode will rock our world leaving it off kilter. However, the finale will leave us all gutted and cursing humanity for the long summer hiatus.
I think that’s just an editing thing for the preview, unless he melted an angel blade and made some bullets.
So assuming the cip is all mixed up the gun Dean is pointing could have already been used on the person who is lying on the floor. He could use it on Cas but there is defintely another person. Who basically has to be either Sam or Crowley or someone who broke into the bunker (looks like Sam to me).
I think Dean will end up being ‘the Prisoner’ twice in this episode. Once of the Stynes and once of Sam / Cas.
I don’t even know how to deal with how pissed I am at what Dean says at the pyre (though obviously it was clear that he was going to say it). I am actually hurt that he could say such a thing. I have always felt that he had some excuse for the things he has done. But not this time. IMO obviously, since the real world doesn’t apply to Supernatural’s rules of how to treat someone. I really hope Sam is talking to him in the clip, but I am fairly certain he is talking to Crowley.
ETA: Having said that if he is saying it because he is nearly back being a demon and the show gives us that then I can deal with it I suppose, it won’t make Sam feel any better either way. However if this is mostly Dean and the show continues to beat us over the head (as they have been doing since the first episode of this season) with the equivalent of ‘Sam got Charlie killed and Dean will rightfully never forget or forgive that’, then as I said I simply don’t understand the moral core of this show any more.
(it is hard to know what is discussing the clip and what is speculating so I hope the above fits here, I am kinda too depressed to discuss it anyway. :()
Agreed eilf, agreed. Oh how I would LOVE it if the “everything is your fault!” was to Dean, because, you know, it’s SO true. Sam’s not a blamer though, not usually anyway and especially not when it comes to Dean, but by God does Dean need to hear it. Sam never once threw Kevins death back in Dean’s face. But Dean will say all kinds of awful things and then it will all get blamed on the mark and forgotten by the start of season 11.
🙁
Oh come on!is this really what you think?don’t you think Dean blames himself enough? I’m not saying he’s innocent and of course he made mistakes, but COME ON!we haven’t even seen the episode yet and you started to be angry at Dean!he is really not in his mind right now because he sees that his loved ones are getting hurt because of the mark and for saving him!do you really wanted for Sam to die and Gadreel thing would never happen and Kevin wouldn’t be dead? I don’t think so! Dean blamed himself so much that he thought he deserved whatever the mark will bring,so please don’t say Dean needs to hear about blame from Sam!
I usually don’t write comments in these discussions but I’m so tired of all whinings about every action Dean does and no matter what the episode is about some people are not happy with Sam!shouldn’t we watch SPN for BOTH brothers? They’re brothers,for God’s sake, not rivals or blamers!sorry if I had any mistakes in writing!
This proves my point exactly. And I’ll say what I like thank you.
E, if you’re going to be critical of Dean, then you have to expect people who actually love Dean as a character (which is a lot of fans) offering opposing viewpoints. I do agree that Taraneh’s words were strongly worded and could have been toned down a bit, but the fact is opposing viewpoints are allowed and your harsh words about Dean are ticking some people off.
Honestly, even I’m getting sick on all the Dean bashing on this thread (not just you E) and I’m a Sam fan! Enough! Sam is not being attacked. I’m going to really, really start cracking down on this Dean vs. Sam aspects of the conversation. It’s lighting up my reported comments box and it is against our rules.
Of course Alice. sorry!
Your opinions and defenses of Dean are more than welcome, just please tone down the attitude a bit. I see where it’s coming from and I do admire a passionate fan, but offer your defense in calmer terms. Thanks much!
Alright,absolutely! I didn’t mean to be harsh and sorry if I was!I’m not one of the old members of here,but I’ve been a constant visitor of this site for about two years now and I respect everyone(Sam or Dean fans),but the thing is lately I’m having hard times reading comments of discussions here because it’s true that I’m a Dean fan but I LOVE both brothers and I can barely stand all these Sam vs Dean comments anymore and I guess you’re aware that most offenses are toward Dean specially in spoiler pages where we haven’t even watched the ep.I just don’t like the hate that has been sending toward Dean.
And anyway,thanks for your wise comments!
[quote]I guess you’re aware that most offenses are toward Dean specially in spoiler pages where we haven’t even watched the ep.I just don’t like the hate that has been sending toward Dean.[/quote]When criticism is equated to hate you will see hate every where.
As a 100% unrepentant Dean girl who also loves Sam, I know exactly where you are coming from. Trust me, you are not alone.
THAT would be totally Bitchin if Sam is saying that to DEAN.
fingers crossed 🙂
Yeah fingers crossed …
would be nice, but OOC for Sam; maybe Dean will have time to list all of Sam’s transgressions, call him a freak, unclean, a monster, kill him, then go out for ice cream and strippers :D:D:D:D
your stripes are showing. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
probably… just miss the good old days when this show was about two brothers hunting things, saving people, the family business.
Come on njspnfan, you know that would be totally OOC for Dean. Dean would actually go out for WHISKEY and strippers.
Out of character, but long overdue. Sam needs to stand up for himself against Dean and tell him to pull his head out of his arse – and in no way get schmaltzy with [i]”because we love you”[/i] horseshit.
The MoC has turned Dean a complete dick, and at this point, I’d thoroughly enjoy seeing someone kick the complete shit out of him. He’s earned every bit of it this season.
Double dose, good stuff.:)
I couldn’t agree more, but I can’t figure out the goal of TPTB for this season. Did they intend to portray Dean as a jerk and Sam as a crazed, desperate, loose cannon? How is this supposed to appeal to fans? Or do they have no idea how Dean is coming off?
I believe that TPTB, or Carver at the very least think Dean is a tragic hero.. fighting against all odds, that he’s right and that Sam is doing everything wrong. I really and truly believe that. Why else do we continually get Dean’s POV and info about what upsets Dean if we aren’t supposed to be on his side? I am not at all sure how Carver thought this would come off and I am completely flummoxed that he can’t see how bad it all looks. I read some comments over on Spoiler.TV and some are speculating there that there is a lot of dissension in the writers room; and although I am not sure how these commenters would know anything, I’d have to say that it must be true and that dissension is all over our screens in the poor plotting, bad characterizations, lack of continuity from episode to episode, no flow, bashed canon etc…
So when Kevin dies Dean tells Sam that Sam isn’t allowed to feel bad because Kevin is all on Dean so Sam doesn’t get to feel whatever Sam is actually feeling, or at least Dean forbids Sam from expressing it. Now Dean is telling Sam that Charlie’s death is ALL ON SAM and Sam STILL isn’t allowed to feel anything he actually feels, or at least Dean forbids Sam from expressing it. Talk about a no win situation.
Why was Sam even there at the pyre? After Dean cut him off, he should have just walked away. I haven’t seen the clip, but have seen the pics. I see no reason why Sam should stick around to be insulted!
Sam gets to say goodbye to the person he cares about in any way that he wants. If he leaves, he’s stopping his grieving process because of Dean’s words. He could leave, but hunter protocol is you build the pyre, you light the pyre, you watch the body burn to honor the dead and to make sure that there is nothing left for an spirit to connect to and stay in this world.
Did anyone notice the red-haired person (who could be female) getting knocked down in the clip?
Yes elf I did and she was tiny and had a Green jacket on – a clone of Charlie. Maybe the writers read all the comments and quickly re – wrote this ep. Maybe S & D burned a Charlie copy and the Stein’s have the real Charlie. They are Frankenwenies after all
Heh I like the idea of them doing literally everything, in the 2 days since the episode aired that the guys were not at a con, because of twitter-grousing … that would be a whole new level of tv show production right there … though come to think of it Felicia wasn’t at the con in England (plot thickens)
It is just faintly possible that all of this has been a giant con, and honestly it would be typical of the promo people to give it away (and actually that person was in the last promo as well). Benny was supposed to be a secret a couple of weeks back. Most of Dean’s fight is in the photos above etc …
If Charlie has been made into some kind of Charlie clone I do believe that I will wretch. No writer on the earth could make that kind of ridiculousness work…not Ben Edlund, no John Shiban, hell Hemingway or even Poe could make it work.
That’s couldn’t…. couldn’t make it work. Dang.
E, I don’t know if you saw Russ’s theory on the discussion pages about Charlie being back in some form in Ep 23 due to the filming sequence, but I will go ballistic if she’s not really gone. What the hell would that whole last episode have been about?
Not only do I want her dead now that they went and killed her off, I DO NOT want a stupid clone episode… Charlie fembot….please, please by all that is holy, NO. It’s too preposterous to contemplate… it’s too silly and unrealistic, its too Barbarella. This is the kind of ridiculous plot that get mocked by more credible writers…. not a plot that any self respecting show runner would actually engage in. For all that Supernatural used to be about ghosts and monsters and otherworldly things it USED to be very grounded in reality. Now it’s spun off into the realm of gross fantasy and I can’t take it seriously any more.
eilf over on the new discussion page Is Dean right ? to blame Sam for Charlies death is a possible answer to this WARNING SPOILERS
I saw this promo and my heart started racing my mind was on over drive, coffee now bit more calm phewwwww.
1. At the pyre when Dean tells Sam to shut up ……. I just wish Sam had’ve punched him — so HARD, that has mad me soooooooooo angry, what a B……, I hate Dean right now, no more excuses
2. Dean is never going to recover from any of this not now not ever !!!!!
3. I’m not surprised their is someone in the bunker that shouldn’t be they have brought that many people there.
4. Or Sam & Cas locked Dean out for their own safety because it looks like the front door
5. I’m a bundle of jitter nerves at the moment, 2 days to go & will all find out that our assumptions are wrong
6. They talk about removing the mark and all will be good, But Dean won’t recover from any of this he is going to be a mess, If he gets cured and is suddenly the old Dean no mental problems, no issues to work through well that will be a load plus load of HORSE SHIT, SORRY SO MAD and ANGRY, how could the writers do this to our BOYS & us the FANS, their gone to far
7. For some reason I just feel soooooooooo ANGRY :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
Dean will come out of this smelling like a rose; just wait and see :o:o
Yes, Dean will come out of this with every character telling him it wasn’t his fault, it was the mark (like the mark itself wasn’t his fault) and that he trusts too much, blah, blah, blah…..it’ won’t stop Dean for flagellating himself endlessly though.
You know, I really don’t want to watch an episode that looks like its going to be 60% Dean going on a rampage being “uber violent” killing everyone it his tracks. ZZZZzzzzzz. Boring. I hope that thats not all this episode is going to amount to. I won’t be watching though, so I’ll have to find out after the fact.
I agree about Sam punching Dean. In that fist fight I hope Sam is the one to take the first swing for all of the crap Dean has put him through the last 2 seasons. But in this clip it looks like Sam just takes it when Dean snaps at him. Remember when Sam was not a passive lump who just stood silently while Dean unloaded on him? Remember the Sam who gave as good as he got? Where did that guy go?
The Carver carved him up. Carver killed him.
Actually I personally think they began to slowly kill him at the end of season 4. Season 5 pretty much beat the fight right out of him and it’s been a gradual process to the Sam we have today. It breaks my heart. I want to love my show again, and I want to love Dean again and I’m beginning to despair that I never will.
Yeah what you say is right But it makes me more MAD. (Edited by Alice. Sorry, no character bashing!)
Well, to be fair, Dean isn’t exactly in the frame of mind to see reason, and he’s got no sensor at the moment and he certainly won’t be doing any evaluation of his motivations any time soon or be willing or able to see how out of whack hypocritical his behavior is. You know, it’s pretty sad. Carver has killed Sam as a character, but he’s making me hate Dean and in some ways that’s worse. :(:(
The line forms in the rear.
Crowley and Cas are Unrecognizable.
Sometimes I forget that Sam isn’t the only character that Carver has carved up. Cas and Crowley ARE unrecognizable and woefully underutilized; Sam is basically gone, a mute, passive shell in his place, and Dean…..I don’t know what Dean is supposed to be. I can’t help but feel like the show wants us to sympathize with him, but I just can’t.
Sorry Alice and everybody – I’m calmer now Love my Boys xxoo
To a different SPN that exist a long long time ago. Now he is punch bag Sammy but it is ok it is the MOC not really Dean who once again tells Sam how he should feel and how he has no right .
I get the feeling the MOC which Dean got of his own free will will be used as a excuse for a fair few things.
Asimov was not Charlie’s real name….what was it……
She has gone by many names; they call her Charlie Bradbury but her real name is Celeste Middleton
Thanks, yes Middleton like Princess Catherine 🙂
Nice to see you guys are still expressing the Dean hate. Jeesh, its like an echo chamber in here. Dean cant keep Sam from expressing or feeling or talking… Sams a big boy, he is free to do, feel, say, think what he wants. Obviously. Dean didnt deny Sam anything in regards to Kevin and his death. Dean said that the death was on him, plain and simple. Dean didnt want Sam to take on that burden. (Oh what a horrible brother Dean is to Sam!) Dean will also assume the guilt, remorse… in regards to Charlies death but he isnt going to let Sam skate on his understanding of his culpability for what happened. Sammys actions, right or wrong, good or bad, are what led up to this. Dean warned about the BOTD, how it was calling to him, the evil it portends, not to mention the consequences of its use. Sam was fully aware. Of course Dean is angry about what needlessly happened to their friend and is calling him out on it! Maybe Dean has become privy since to the fact that Sam is also working with Rowena? The fact remains that if Sam hadnt called Charlie back, she would not have died in that bathroom. That is on Sam. Charlies dying is on her for doing something so monumentally stupid. Running away from a warded safe house for no real viable reason, leaving herself vulnerable to the Steins was a rookie move that cost her.
I think this set of Gifs lays it out the best http://percysowner.tumblr.com/post/118742269209/themegalosaurus-gosh-but-these-rules-can-be
NOTE: Not mine, I don’t make gifs. I fail at gifs.
Dean can tell Sam to shut up, he can express that he doesnt want to hear it… but once again, Dean cannot control Sam or his feelings, thoughts… Dean made a judgement call to not let Kevin in on what was going on, Dean could not have known about Metatrons influence nor his hit list he expected Gadreel to carry out. When he found out Zeke was not who he said he was, his concern was for Sam and getting Zeke out before he could end him. Once again his head was all about Sam. I dont even think he thought Kevin might be in danger. He certainly could not have known about the existence of the list. Kevin was in it, like it or not. No one in their right mind would choose to be a prophet! Charlie, Sam and Dean had just dodged a bullet with the Steins regarding the BOTD. It was clear that the book was evil, not to be trusted or used. Charlie and Dean were under the impression it no longer existed so the Steins would back off and leave Charlie alone. Sam lied regarding the book, pulled Charlie back in, asked for her help and then admitted that the BOTD was never destroyed. Sam set this entire scenario up as well as exposing Charlie to one of the strongest witches in the world. Sam willingly, repeatedly, exposed Charlie to danger and her death was the result so no, I dont really think the Kevin/Charlie situations compare all that much. That being said they were both stupid but well intentioned, but in this particular case I do understand Dean calling Sam out.
Didn’t Charlie take on the wicked witch in Oz? She probably had some experience there. And you are right this isn’t the same as Kevin. Sam was up front with Charlie the whole way and Charlie still chose to go with him.
This discussion should probably get moved to the discussion thread before it gets moved for us. If you want I can start a thread.
AlyCat, Kevin most certainly did not CHOOSE to be a prophet. It was foisted on him. Charlie, however, most certainly chose to be a hunter. And she was killed doing what the job of hunter entails-saving people.
I love gifs! They amaze and amuse me, yet remain beyond my limited ability on social media.
If memory serves me correctly, (and it may not, blame the heat), Dean was shown alone when he made that speech about Kevin to Kevin’s body(?). Sam was not in those scenes to argue or voice his own upset, grief, anger, guilt – his feelings. Had he been, he may well have served Dean a well-deserved dose of reality, but alas, we, the viewing audience, were denied.
I like angry Sam, sue me.
We have only seen these clips, but perhaps (though doubtful), there is a scene without Dean, where Sam gets to vent his grief about/over Charlie……oh, *snort*, there won’t be. Nor will there be a scene where Sam stands his ground.
I, for one, am ready to move on. Ready to see some butt-kicking action. You go Dean. I don’t want prisoners taken, I want death (though not Crowley’s or Castiel’s nor Sam’s nor Dean’s) and destruction…..I want off-the-leash, out-of-control Dean…no holds, no restraints, no remorse. *sigh* Not likely to happen.
No wait, I lied. I take that back…….I’ll take prisoner Dean, with Sam laying waste to any and all, tearing asunder anything that attempts to stop him in his successful quest to retrieve his brother.
Okay, back to the rock under which I live. Happy Summer, y’all.
New theory; MoC fueled Dean kills Sam, then is overcome with grief and apologizes to the coffee maker in the bunker’s kitchen. :D:D:D:D
…”on MY watch!”… 😉
Of course the major plot hole in Sam being responsible for Charlie’s death was a) how did the Styne’s find her in the first place and b) if she was that easy to find why didn’t they find her before she hooked back up with Sam. And why would warding keep Charlie safe from the Stynes? They aren’t demons, angels or anything supernatural they are just body snatchers. Cas evidently left Rowena and Charlie alone to go grocery shopping. So she wasn’t any safer there then she was before she got there or after she left.
So again the writing for this episode was supposed to set up Dean going off on his bloody revenge quest (because Kevin… no wait Charlie) and Sam is going to beat himself up because of Kevin’/ Charlie’s death. Wasn’t that the plot for S9? Of course if Dean hadn’t run off and gotten the MOC to begin with none of this would have happened at all. And we go on the merry-go-round of who is more to blame Sam, Dean, Charlie or the writers.
I have deleted what I said because there is no way to discuss this.
I would prefer that you didn’t lump everyone you don’t agree with together as ‘you guys’ along with a generalized description of what you think ‘we’ are ‘all’ doing..
[quote]Sammys actions, right or wrong, good or bad, are what led up to this.[/quote]
Oh yeah. Dean having the MoC has nothing at all to do with it.
Not with Sams actions after the fact. Dean said ‘…book is calling to me y’all! Wants me to do evil, evil things!!! Book is bad yo! Biblical consequences for its usage!!! Burn it! Buuuurrrnnnnn it now!’ Sam not only didnt listen to Dean but he lied about destroying the book, has involved one of the strongest witches in the world aka the Wiiinnnchesters enemy (as if he is realistically going to be able to control her or trust her and if he thinks either hesfooling himself) and pulled Cas and Charlie into it. Dean told Sam he would get his vacation but not this way. Dean still wants to look for a cure but isnt willing to sacrifice Sam or others to do so. Hes trying to keep Sam from. going down a very dangerous path. So yes, Sammys actions have led up to this. To deny that is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Respect Alycat!I could have cried because of happiness after I read this first comment of yours!I’m totally with you here!
Actually Dean getting the MOC is what lead up to this , what happened last week was a consquence of the domino effect it created.
You still cant deny Sams involvement tho. Sams actions once the BOTD was located and found to be evil, biblical proportions, blah, blah, blah and Dean warned him. not to use it that they would find another way… Sams hubris as well as desperation and panic has led him to ignore all warnings and damn the torpedos, full steam ahead!!! That is where Sams culpability lies.
I do not deny anything what I am saying is that without the MOC then none of it would of happened because Sam would not of been in this position to begin with . .
By that logic you could go all the way back to the beginning when Sam and Deans mom made the deal with the YED…
true dat.
And that still doesnt negate Sams actions that he took based on his own free will. He chose to react to the situation as it presented itself, regardless of how it originated. Thats like saying if that bank had never been built, it never wouldve gotten robbed. I dont know why people keep trying to twist themselves into knots over Sams involvement. In this case, it was his turn to do something monumentally stupid. Next week, it will be Dean. Welcome to Winchester 101…
😉
Yet if you follow your argument to its own conclusion, Sam deserves no blame at all for what happened to Charlie, because her agreement to help Sam was based on HER own free will. And I’m still disagreeing about the monumental stupidity of Sam’s actions. In the world that the show has given us, Dean is getting worse, he’s snapping, we’re losing him, etc., etc. They’ve been jamming that down our throats for many an episode now. Although being chickenshits, they choose to show this almost exclusively by having Dean kill monsters or people who are not the most upstanding citizens. And TFW has exhausted any hope of a cure because they’ve literally canvassed the earth. So the consequences of inaction by Sam would be pretty epic, because when Dean’s gone, this time he’s probably gone for good, being Cain’s heir and all. So bottom line, like Cas and Charlie, I see Sam’s point when he said that of all of the sucky choices, this one sucks least. Of course there are huge risks, and inevitably it will all blow up in Sam’s face because that’s the role TPTB have designated for Sam. But it’s not like anyone else has proposed an alternative that prevents Dean from becoming an IMMORTAL killing machine. BOOM!
Well said.
Consequences of Biblical proportions. Evil that vast and Sam is relying on the help and word of one of the most powerful witches in the world not to mention Deans sworn enemy. That will end well. This will not only affect Sam, Dean… but innocents as well. Sams perception is that Dean is losing it. Show is presenting something completely different. For now Dean has a handle on it. Dean wants to be cured but he doesnt want to damn Sam and the world to do it. Hes willing to keep looking for other options. A big concern to me is that Rowena is playing Sam like a fiddle. Working on his fears, reinforcing that Deans a ticking time bomb… Sam is scared and desperate but hes also being too smart by half. He thought he could maintain control of the situation and now its spinning sideways with no end in sight. Charlies death is on her but that still doesnt negate Sams involvement. I love Sam but yeah, he us being monumentally foolish to continue with this particular quest. Its the past all over again. Everyone and their brother is warning Sam to not go there but hes not listening.
[quote]Consequences of Biblical proportions[/quote]
That’s exactly what happened with Cain, when he decided to wipe out a sixth of the world’s population, many of them “innocents”. So trying to avoid Dean turning into a Cain would seem to be pretty compelling and urgent. And Dean is not still looking for a cure. He’s trying to ride it out and “fight” til he can’t fight anymore, but guess what? At that point it’s too late. Before it’s apparent to Sam and Cas that Dean is gone, he quite possibly could/would kill both of them, especially since he conveniently hasn’t told them of Cain’s prophecy.
Dean knows Sam wants to find a cure, Dean has warned him off from this one. Try something else, keep looking while he controls it until he cant anymore. At that point who knows what will happen? Cain gave back into the MOC after years of resistance. Cain willingly started to kill again, beginning with the horde of demons at his home. If Dean doesnt fully willingly give in to it (which I think after the Stein slaughter that is about to happen, may soon be a moot point) will he be able to “bees and corn” it in isolation as Cain was? Once Dean dies does he turn into the demon again or is the demon still present and has been getting stronger all the while in spite of the MOC? Or is the MOC, as a theory I recently read, gradually hollowing Dean out until Dean is no more? That one hurts most of all. Or will he go back to the kareoke loving, bar hopping, drunk Casanova he was before Sam trapped and forced the hideously painful cure on him? DemonDean was chill unless you screwed with him. He wasnt hunting Sam down to kill him and warned him off twice. Would that DemonDean ultimately evolve into the brutal killer over milleniums Cain? More importantly will we know by the season finale!?! As to why Dean hasnt said anything about Cains prophecy? I cant say. Some people have posited that Dean recognized it as trash talk by Cain to get Dean to kill him. Then theres the thought that Dean is just sticking his head in the sand, floating down that big old boat in Eqypt. I think its more that he doesnt want to believe it but knows its true – I mean, look at his expression when Cain has him pinned down and is dropping that little tidbit of info on Dean – heart wrenching. In true Dean fashion in his mind he will not let it happen. As long as Crowley isnt killed by Dean, its all good. I just thought of something. What if it doesnt matter if its Dean who kills Crowley when it comes to the prophecy, as long as its a Winchester? In that case if Sam does kill him for Rowena, then Dean will be able to check that off his non to do list, and fulfillment of the prophecy begins. Eeeepppp!
My question is why isn’t anyone looking for Metatron (Cas I’m looking at you). He has the demon tablet that according to Cas should be able to help remove the Mark from Dean. That little tidbit seems to have been forgotten by all including the angel that said it.
I hope it doesn’t get too hot-headed on this thread … let’s not automatically assume that this will play out the way it usually does, change might be in the wind…
I have posted on the discussion page my thinking on why I think it may not be time to be really mad at the way the plot appears to be playing out … yet ….
Yes everyone, there’s a lot of frustration right now. I feel quite a bit! Just try to keep it calm. I’ve gotten complaints that someone can’t say anything without getting jumped on. Just respect what others say and try to use a bit of restraint when sharing your feelings about the episode. Not total restraint, but try to tone it down a bit.
To everybody I would like to apologize for my down right horrid things I said about Dean, That bloody video has really. really hurt me for some stupid reason. I have refused to look at it again. I dearly won’t Dean to get better, I would Love Sam to get his strenghth back / his SAMMY back and kick some ass. But what I really won’t is The Winchester Family Business back. enough of this MOC already !! xxo
I have a question; Dean tells Sam to shut up, and that he got her killed and doesn’t get to apologize. Then, he says he’s gonna find whoever did this, then rip apart everything and everyone they ever loved. Since he blames Sam, does that mean he goes after Sam and Castiel after the Stynes?
Oh who the hell knows with Dean these days. He’s so all over the map it’s impossible to understand half of what he says, who he’s saying it to and what he means; he is the very definition of inconsistent. I can’t wait for this never-ending MoC story to be over with. It’s like living with a crazy person, you never know what they are going to say or do next, if they are going to turn on those they love, or go on a rampage. There’s no logic or consistency, and reasons and motivation appear out of thin air. It’s tiresome and it needs to be over…..35 episodes!! Ugh. Although having said that it does appear that Dean comes after both Sam and Cas at the end of the episode (or the beginning…who knows how messed time wise that preview clip is). Isn’t that him kicking in the front door of the bunker? And it appears that some kind of showdown takes place in there.
If it had been more interesting, the past 35 episodes wouldn’t have seemed so boring and bad.
I honestly believe Sam & Cas are next – in preview for Ep.22 You see Dean kick in a door – I think Sam & Cas have locked or tried to lock him out of the bumker to protect themselves but he gets in.
POOR DEAN, his gone the darkness has got him sooooooooooo sad.
The door he is kicking is in the Steins laboratory. It looks as if there is more of an explosion which takes out the door of the bunker. I think thats more Stein related as it looks like the bunker may have been breached. There is someone off to the side, I presume dead when Cas confronts Dean. I think its a Stein Dean is leveling his gun at in that scene and not Cas. Maybe at the one that gets knocked to the ground that appeared to be in the process of gathering books up to start a fire with the plastic gas container?
Alycat do you have some sort of special powers I’ve try to watch it frame x frame and still missed some of what you saw Thanks Wonder Women LOL
Just my magical tv remote. 😉 I just switch it to seeing frame by frame where you have to manually “click” it to advance shot by shot. Its nothing special, all remotes have that capability that I know of. 🙂 You just have to be patient…
I’m getting EXTREMELY close to shutting down this thread. Allow me to dictate some simple rules:
– All opinions are welcome and will be respected, even if you disagree. Offer a statement of respectful disagreement and why.
– No character bashing. If you have a hatred of Dean, or if you have a hatred of Sam, keep it to yourself. Just explain in constructive terms why you think a character is falling short or failing based on the storylines presented so far.
– NO, I repeat NO Sam vs. Dean. What is that? Knocking down one character to make the other look good. So if someone is critical of Sam for example, NO coming back with comments attacking Dean. That applies to vice versa too.
I’m not a harsh mod by any terms, but the complaints are getting overwhelming. Keep it calm and constructive!
Alice,
I think that is a bell that can not be un-rung but perhaps moved to the Discussions pages.
jmo
Well, having watched the promo a few times now … I think Sam is talking to Crowley when he he’s talking about blame. I’m sure he sees Crowley as the reason behind Dean getting the MOC in the first place. I guess we’ll find out what’s what after ep 22 airs tomorrow. The finale on May 20 is probably going to have the fandom dissolving into screaming puddles. I’m sure the summer hiatus will spawn many fanifcs just to make it through the long hot summer.
Yeah, remember what Sam said to himself to Crowley in the Season 9 finale? ‘You got him into this, you will get him out of it or so help me God…’ I think thats who hes talking to in the promo too. But what if hes not? Ooooh. I never thought that was even a possibility but now Im not so sure…
That’s what I was thinking, that Sam is talking to Crowley. It also looks like Criwley takes a bit too, so maybe Sam tries to kill Crowley in this episode? I am having a hard time believing that that’s really what Rowena wants though. Could she be building up some kind of spell or curse against Sam that requires him to go after her bloodline?
Don’ kill Crowley, I love him-as a character I mean. Also, I liked Sam telling Dean it was all his fault. Dean has always been a hot-head, doing without thinking and then all Hell breaks loose. Dean should have thought about the consequences of the MOC, but he didn’t and now it’s all a mess.
Dean, Crowley and Cain were all in a situation that was going bad fast. A horde of demons were ready to attack, Cain had indicated that the mojo he used would not keep them out for long. When push shoved and Cain offered to transfer the MOC, if you think about it, there really wasnt time for a Q&A. At that point I dont think Dean cared about the ramifications to himself. Was it stupid and shortsighted to assume it would only affect him? Yup. But in a way the MOC/First Blade has been a blessing as well as a curse. Not only did Dean kill Abaddon with it, he also went up against Metatron, distracting him enough that Cas was able to destroy the angel tablet, the source of Metatrons power. I still think it was wicked evil that Cain transferred the MOC and I seriously have to wonder if when he asked Collette for forgiveness whether he was talking about what he was about to do – i.e. give MOC to Dean as opposed to what I originally thought, because he was going to take out the demon horde by giving in to the MOC… If its the former then that puts a completely different light on what he did. Cain used Dean to seek his revenge on Abaddon, beyond that there was no benefit to Dean to receiving the MOC/First Blade. Knowing everything Cain did about the MOC/First Blade and its curse, Cain was essentially damning a good man who was in bad shape mentally and emotionally, as well as in a dangerous situation when it came to the enemies they were up against, all for a sure shot of revenge against the person who killed his beloved. Did Cain know Deans mental/emotional state? Probably not, but it wouldnt have mattered if he did. Bad Cain! Bad!!!
WOW Alycat I hadn’t thought of that. I thought he was asking her forgivness for the demon deaths – but not for transfering the mark hadn’t thought of that SO EVIL. I still don’t know why he couldn’t take the mark back the night of the big fight. Yeah I know they wouldn’t have a story. Its a bit like following our Government we can see how to fix things and they can’t LOL
Yeah I wanted to (and initially did!) think Cain was a good guy (I mean look how cute he was shucking that corn!!!) but how could he have been if when he was all, Mr. Peaceful BeeKeeper Guy, he still transferred something to someone unwittingly stupid in regards to the true nature of the MOC? Cain knew how horrendous it was and the true toll it would take on Deans life and he still did it. He used Dean for revenge on Abaddon. He wasnt concerned with the aftermath Dean would suffer. If he were good, he never would have been able to do something so heinous. Maybe he was apologizing to Collette for both actions.
I swear AlyCat, I’m not trying to be confrontational but your post is proof positive of what TPTB have done vis-a-vis the brothers. You seem to be saying that it was a slightly rash decision that Dean made taking on the MOC from the father of murder/ progenitor of fratricide/ killing machine for centuries, like taking a chance on a dodgy burrito because damn, it smells good and I’m really hungry. In fact, you say it wasn’t such a bad decision after all, because some good came of it! Yet you seem to view Sam’s decision as a bad one for the ages because of the terrible risk of catastrophe. And this is what drives me crazy, and proves my point about TPTB. No bad/risky decision by Dean can’t be trumped IN SPADES by some action by Sam, because TPTB are unduly protective of Dean’s image/character. Maybe that’s finally going to change, because for Dean to tell Sam that he wishes he were dead crosses a line that’s never been crossed by one of the brothers. Finally, if Dean does kill/attempt to kill Sam, will anyone on the show ever voice the opinion that maybe Dean should have warned Sam that Cain told Dean he was destined to kill Sam? Nah.
No it wasnt slightly rash. It was a stupid move on Deans part but time really was of the essence. No doubt its a bad thing but some good has come of it that would not have happened without, battle with Abaddon and Metatron. And Im sorry but I dont buy this protection from Show or TPTB over Deans actions anymore than Sam.
Time was of the essence? It took weeks to finally find her. And then even though Sam was on a hot lead Dean went to play pool, drink at a bar and bromance with Crowley. It was a rash decision when the ultimate goal was to find Gadreel and make him pay for what he had done to Kevin and Sam. Suddenly he’s off with Crowley on an adventure to find Cain? That made no sense to me at all.
Agreed. Time was in no way of the essence. The brothers never displayed the slightest sense of urgency about finding/killing Abaddon. Indeed they jaunted off to the spa and worked on quite a few other cases rather than focus all of their efforts (or indeed any efforts) on finding Abaddon.
Time was of the essense in Cains home with the demon mob in attack mode. No time to chat about the dos and donts or pros and cons of accepting the MOC.
Yes, there was. In fact, Cain started to warn Dean but Dean cut him off. He didn’t want to hear about the burden that comes with the mark. Dean was not focused on getting ready to fight the demons outside the house. Even after the mark was transferred, his first concern was to get the Blade. This is the whole scene:
[b] 9.11 First Born [/b]
[i] [Cain reappears in the house with Dean and Crowley]
Dean: What the hell, man? You in or out? I’m getting head spins.
Cain: I can give you the mark, Dean, if it’s what you truly want.
Dean: What are you talking about?
Cain: The mark can be transferred to someone who’s worthy.
Dean: You mean a killer like you?
Cain: Yes.
Dean: Can I use it to kill that bitch?
Cain: Yes. But you have to know with the mark comes a great burden. Some would call it a great cost.
Dean: Yeah, well, spare me the warning label. You had me at “kill the bitch”.
Cain: Good luck, Dean. You’re gonna to need it.
Dean: Yeah, I get that a lot. Let’s dance.
[Cain transfers the mark to Dean.]
Crowley: Dean?
Dean: I’m fine. All right, where the hell did you stash the damn Blade?
Cain: Nothing can destroy the Blade, so I threw it to the bottom of the deepest ocean. It’s the only way I could keep my promise to Colette. You find the blade, kill Abaddon, but make me a promise first. When I call you — and I will call — you come find me and use the Blade on me.
Dean: Why?
Cain: For what I’m about to do.
[Cain transports Dean and Crowley outside.]
Crowley: They’re all trapped in there.
Dean: With him. [/i]
No time was of the essence in that the demon horde was at Cains door and Cain admitted that the mojo he did to keep them out wasnt going to last. Dean was ramping up getting ready to fight. Cain made his visit to Collettes grave and asked for forgiveness – for the fact that he was going to willingly begin killing again or for condemning another with the transfer of the MOC, or both? – and then returned offering to give Dean the MOC. The demons were descending, they didnt have time for a tutorial, Dean had confirmation that it would enable him to kill Abaddon so he acted. As far as why he went off with Crowley, Gadreel was gone and Abaddon was another baddie that needed to go down. Crowley was offering a solution, so he went.
As was shown Cain took out the demons on his own. He transported Dean and Cas outside and then killed all of the demons. Ok now that is done transfer the Mark. But no Dean takes on a curse because as Dean says “he doesn’t think things all the way through”. That’s on Dean. So now Dean has been played by Crowley, received a curse, a gift from the Father of Murder that he has no idea what it means or what the consequences are. I think the point is that Dean knew he was being played by the King of Hell (evil manipulator) and decided that was ok to go along with the plan anyway. No questions asked.
Sam is doing the same thing. He is using the Book to save Dean no matter the price. As we saw with Kevin innocents always seem to be the carnage that surround the Winchesters when they get laser focused on saving each other.
Ummm… as in Dean’s decision to put Abaddon back together in this first place, after they had sliced and diced her in to pieces in S8?
This trailer had me gritting my teeth so hard I have had toothache and a headache ever since. Not to mention a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach when I think about where these last two episodes are heading. Sam’s face in that first scene…oh my poor boy. 🙁
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that thought that clip was brutal.POOR DEAN. POOR SAM. This is intense. I’m not even going to speculate
The boys can’t ever recover from this !! A human being can only take so much, I hadn’t relized Dean said that the writers dug thenselves in a corner with this one. ????
Will Sam & Dean ever be the same — crying now curling into a ball OHHHHHHHHHH Dear
Jeremy’s preview was pretty intense wasn’t it. I can see Dean killing Sam now. How everyone walks back from this is going to be really interesting. Jensen was right they definitely dug themselves a hole.
Jeremy’s preview clip was brutal. I agree [b]Cheryl[/b], I can definitely see Dean killing Sam now. I didn’t think it would go that far but after what he said to Sam in that Producer’s clip…yeah, it’s seems very possible. 🙁 It would tie in with Jensen’s comment about how the writers have dug themselves into a hole and how he has no idea how they will get out of it.
Where is this preview? I don’t see it listed on WFB home page or am I being blind?
Here you go. (Hopefully this link will work.)
http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/05/supernatural-episode-1022-prisoner_9.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1431466509
Thanks Gwen, it worked. But holy crap. Not many things on SPN have been as brutal as what Dean said to Sam in that clip. It actually made me really sad.
It’s up on WFB now, so we can discuss it on that thread.
please share the knowledge. where is this producer’s clip. tyvm
Hi Gwen, Did Jensen elaborate on his comment? I am very interested in it as I believe he’s definitely right… they HAVE written themselves into a corner, and usually the J’s are very careful about making any comments that might be construed as critical of the writing. Did he say anything more on this at all?
They’ve been telegraphing Dean killing Sam for years on this show and now they’ve actually set up a scenario that it might just happen (although I don’t think it will). When the writers dig themselves into a hole, bad story telling is usually the result; the Hallucination quick fix is an example.
WTF? Since when would Dean EVER wish that Sam was dead? I hope that’s just the mark making Dean want to kill his brother.
Another clip for [i] The Prisoner[/i]. Rowena, Castiel and Sam:
Link ([url]”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxSfwqj3Im0″[/url])
where is this Producer’s Clip…..
From The CW’s YouTube page:
Link ([url]”http://youtube.com/watch?v=9f4pCLb2PdE”[/url])
Thank you. Did Jensen say at a Con they were in a corner or did he tweet it….
http://www.spoilersguide.com/supernatural/season-10-episode-21-dark-dynasty-producer-s-preview/
Maybe you are referring to this one?
[quote] Jensen volunteered during his lounge, when asked about giving us a minor spoiler, that another fan favourite will die, and that he has no idea how the writers are going to dig themselves out of that one. [/quote]
Link ([url]”http://metamorphosis2011.tumblr.com/post/118538473120/jensen-volunteered-during-his-lounge-when-asked”[/url])
Thank you SanSummer1
SpnFamily :):):)
Doesnt necessarily mean Sams death tho…
The producer’s preview was pretty interesting. I was afraid to watch it quite frankly, and part of my fears were founded in that Dean went further than I though he would word wise in his wishes for Sam’s death, but this part aside, the part with Rowena was pretty interesting. How weird is it that she is becoming one of my favorite characters? I’ve loathed her this whole time, but like Gadreel last year, she’s become the only character that anyone is writing anything interesting for lately. That has brought me round as far as she’s concerned. I am becoming more and more convinced that Rowena is running her own little curse on Sam. Maybe she does translate the book, maybe she even provides the counter curse (although it wouldn’t surprise me if she doesn’t) but I’ll bet she’s setting something up of her own. Does she really want her son dead? Why? Just for kicking her out? Seems a bit harsh. Maybe Rowena wanting Crowley dead is some kind of tie in to Dean wanting Sam dead? And if Sam actually dies in the finale (although I am betting he won’t) will the Mark’s quest be fulfilled if the killing is done “out of order?”
I thought Rowena was very campy and over-the-top as well.
THE WRITERS and Directors were to blame; Not the actress. Thank Chuck 🙂
The way she was initially with the OTT acting was intentional so that no one took her seriously or thought of her as much of a threat. Every once in a while she would let the real Rowena poke thru. Now we are starting to see the real Rowena. Love her lines and her delivery!!! ‘I barely know the man… ‘ ‘make sure your brother doesnt know what youre doin!’ and ‘Samuel’ Love her.