Let’s Speculate: Supernatural 10.11 – “There’s No Place Like Home”
Summary: This episode was written by Robbie Thompson and features the return of fan favorite Charlie Bradbury. The last time we saw Charlie she was off on a quest and adventure to Oz with Dorothy, so let’s see what happens during her return.
The episode begins with “Charlie” attacking a man outside his home. When we find the boys in the bunker they are trying to get Dean into a healthy lifestyle to avoid triggering the Mark of Cain and are still researching the Mark when Sam finds the video that shows Charlie beating up the guy from the cold opening.
The boys go to find out what’s happening, in their own version of a quest, and find that the guy was involved in the hit and run drunk driver case that killed Charlie’s parents. They run into Dark Charlie at another link in the investigation chain and they fight. Charlie escapes and then another Charlie shows up.
We find out that Charlie sold her soul, kind of, in Oz to win the war of Emerald City. Her Dark Half won the war almost singlehandedly but the price is that there is a twofer Charlie – one who is really good and one who is really dark. The episode splits in two, essentially, as Sam and Good Charlie go back to the bunker to find a way to reunite the Charlies and Dean pursues the Dark Charlie. It was a nice structural move on the script’s part.
In the bunker, Charlie and Sam figure out that the Man of Letters who found the key to Oz and went there retired. They speculate he’s still alive and go to find him. Meanwhile Dean is in hot pursuit of a vengeful Charlie who is after the man who killed her parents. One scene focuses on Dean trying to resist women and booze, kind of a nod back to that season 5 episode about purity in my opinion. Charlie escapes Dean’s guardianship and he tracks her down to the place where the murderer works. Dean tries to protect the guy but Charlie shows up and after a rather manipulative turn, convinces Dean that she doesn’t want revenge, just justice. She wants this guy to see her face and the damage he did. She confronts him and he apologizes and it is implied that he inflicted further injuries on Celeste (Charlie’s real name) after the accident. Charlie turns and locks the door on Dean and then kills the man.
Charlie steals the impala because Dean revealed what Sam and Good Charlie were doing. He chases her as we see Sam and Charlie find Clive and they figure out that he is the Wizard of Oz – he too split in two with his Id running wild (by the way there is a basic misunderstanding of the Id here but we’ll go with it for plot). Dark Charlie and Dean collide and she taunts him into losing control. As Dean and Charlie fight outside, Clive mortally injures himself to bring the Wizard into this world. Sam is beaten and tied up while Charlie suffers the blows from Dean outside. Eventually Charlie gets a gun and has to kill Clive in order to kill the Wizard and save the day.
Sam carries her outside and stops Dean from beating Charlie to death. He lays them next to each other and places the key on Good Charlie’s chest. After an emotional exchange, where Dark Charlie tells Charlie she had the magic in her all the time, the two halves are united.
The concluding scenes focus on Charlie forgiving Dean and her possible future involvement with the investigation into the mark. She leaves with her trademark bitches comment. Sam and Dean have a short heart to heart where they commit again to figure out a way to fix Dean’s “demonic tramp stamp.”
Another great outing for Thompson. Kudos to him and Felicia Day on another wonderful Charlie episode.
Questions:
Where do you think Charlie will fit into the narrative now?
Do you think clean living is the way to go for Dean? Why is that an option do you think?
Do you think the reunification of Charlie was a forecasting of Dean’s cure or a red herring?
So what are your thoughts, reactions, feelings? Leave them here!
BOOZE BURGERS n Mo Booze 🙂
Miss NolaNola’s BIRTHDAY in
2 1/2 hrs.
Happy Birthday Miss Nola 🙂
You are thee Kindest, Sweetest Lady.
Thank you so very much, Lady Leah.
I made it to 52, OMFG….:):D:p:o;)
It’s now officially your birthday! Happy Birthday!
Thanks E 🙂
Happy Birthday Nola!
Miss You Prix, thanks cher 😉
Happy B-day Nola!
– Lilah
Thanks Lady Kane.
will hit you on twitter.;)
This was a good episode I thought. It brought a little more insight into Charlie’s story and it paralleled the MOC plight of Dean. And maybe a glimmer of hope for Dean. I need to watch it again. I’m sure I missed a lot first go round. Thanks for the quick review/re cap. Shallow note Sam/Jared looked particularly wonderful in this episode. I loved all of his interactions with Charlie. Did it mean anything that Dean was with dark C and Sam was with good C. Last episode the visuals definitely put Sam in white and bathed in light.
I enjoyed this episode. I always enjoy the Charlie episodes. I wasn’t sure if Deans tremors stopped because he – 1) drank or 2) he feed his violent tendencies a little or 3) he is gaining control. I do like that Dean is confiding in people a little and leaning on Sam who is being being his rock right now. Instead of going into snarly defensive/guilt mode. That is nice.
Putting the reply up here but I agree for Leah and Cheryl and I liked the episode.
Charlie will probably help in the back round like even Castiel was present in this episode talking with Sam on the phone.
Clean living is not for Dean and in real life if you shut down everything you “like” with a huge addiction with a snap of your fingers. It fails pretty badly. It should be done slower and he is mostly punishing himself with well not doing like he normally does. It is funny that Dean can cook good food even if it is something he hates… 😀
Don’t see how the reunification would work in this case. So I vote for both options.
– Lilah
and by feed I meant fed. 🙂
Both liked and didn’t like the episode. Liked Charlie and Dark Charlie and liked that there was so much Sam and Dean. Liked that for once Thompson wrote for Sam and that he came across as an actual character in this episode. Currently he’s being a rock, patient and gentle. Liked that he was smart and compassionate too and didn’t even mind the tied up and being strangled bit too much. Liked that Dean seems to be trying to deal with stuff and is not so much in denial and is letting Sam help.
Didn’t like all the OZ stuff…. the key business, the melding of the souls and the hokey special effects stuff that went with it while Charlie re-integrated…. its all just too cartoonish, too Charmed, for my tastes. Also there was LOTS of dumb Dean…… lots and lots. What about Charlie telling Dean that she had “a bad half” makes him gullible enough to let her confront the guy who killed her parents in the first place? We all knew she’d go nuclear on the guy, so why didn’t Dean get what we all could see from a mile off? And she gives him the slip not once but TWICE! First slashing baby’s tire and then stealing her altogether. And he revels to Bad Charlie what Sam and Good Charlie are up to and where they are? Geez! Come on writers….. figure out a way to get your narrative to work without turning your lead characters, your heroes, into dumb asses. It’s not very creative. Also, not too fond of mopey, poor me Dean at the end of the ep wallowing in his own juices, more interested in beating himself up than in trying to be constructive and face what he did to Charlie head on. Dean could take a lesson from Charlie on how to man up and move forward; he could take one from Sam as well for that matter.
And what’s with all these characters basically committing murder and then just strolling away without a care in the world? So, Charlie isn’t wanted by the police? And Dean isn’t either? Hmmmmm, not very likely is it? Supernatural has always worked best when it remained as connected to the real world as possible with the boys suffering real world consequences for the life that they lead. That’s what made the events in Nightshifter so interesting; it put the boys on the radar of law enforcement and created tension in their hunting that lasted well into the following season. Considering how dire the MoC is and the fact that Dean is now a mass murder and now so is Charlie, the stakes don’t seem that high on any of it.
I liked this episode; well written and paced, with both brothers actively involved in the story. Felicia Day got to stretch her acting chops; it seems that most of the time she’s just playing a version of her real self but she did a nice job in this episode. Evil Charlie deflated Baby’s tires – does that mean she works for the New England Patriots? And I guess it’s official – they’ve run out of people to choke Sam so now he just strangles himself :D:D
And this is quite the role switch between the brothers, with Sam being the solid center and Dean having to rely on/look to him for encouragement and support. Dean is clearly struggling and that is not going unnoticed by Sam.
A couple of minor quibbles; Dean was portrayed as dumb, letting Evil Charlie in the room alone with the guy that killed her parents, then letting her escape at the bar. Dean’s got a lot on his plate so I’ll let that one slip. And you’d think the fact that the murder of the president of a local business might put Dean and Charlie, especially Dean, on law enforcement’s radar but the show doesn’t seem to really worry about that anymore.
[b] Where do you think Charlie will fit into the narrative now?[/b]
Definitely left the door open for bringing back Charlie, if and when she finds this book in Italy. I think this was left open ended because they’re probably not sure how or if Dean is going to be cured or whether he’ll just need to learn to live with the MoC.
[b]Do you think clean living is the way to go for Dean? Why is that an option do you think?[/b]
All of these clean-living things are, for lack of a better term, very Sam-like. I don’t think this is going to work because it isn’t really who Dean is at his core.
[b]Do you think the reunification of Charlie was a forecasting of Dean’s cure or a red herring?[/b]
The anvils were flying in this episode, and the parallels can be taken in many directions. “Good” Charlie killing the good half of the Wizard of Oz to stop the evil half; does that represent Sam having to kill Dean at some point – they have taken extra effort to portray Sam as a goodie two shoes, with evil Charlie making fun of him for his good guy ethic, calling him an albatross around Dean’s neck. This isn’t the first time this season they’ve emphasized this, with Demon Dean making fun of Sam for his puppy dog eyes, etc. Will Sam start going down a dark path in his efforts to save Dean? Or, will the good half of Dean have to do something that goes against his nature to stop the evil/MoC half of Dean.
This all gets back to Metatron saying “Behold the river shall end at the source”, and what the source of the MoC’s power is. Does it lie within Dean, or is it something/someone external? Or, just as Cain killed Abel to “save him” from Lucifer; let’s keep in mind this is Cain, the father of murder’s story – not really anyone around to corroborate it; will Dean ultimately be compelled to kill Sam?
The only reason I don’t want to see Dean have to learn to live with the Mark is that it basically makes him all powerful and immortal while he has it. That’s a real tension killer IMO as risk and danger are a huge part of what they confront every day while hunting. It puts the boys and Dean in particular at a huge advantage in their war on the Supernatural and kind of destroys all the drama. “Big Bad? No problem, give Dean the blade, he’ll take care of it and won’t break a sweat either.” When Sam had the demon blood it didn’t make him immortal and it only made him strong in a limited capacity; it enhanced his powers in certain ways and ended up leaving him more vulnerable in the aftermath. Dean’s advantage is currently all powerful and the only detriment I see at present is Dean’s tendency to wallow in his guilt afterwards (not sure why he was feeling so guilty at the end of this episode either? Sure he beat the hell out of Charlie, but he kind of had to as she was kicking his ass at the time). And if Dean doesn’t want to become a demon again he really HAS to control himself, he hasn’t got much choice so I am not sure what all the conversation and angst about ‘can he’ or ‘will he’ is about, he either controls himself or he’s a demon again; it seems pretty simple. And another thing… the painting of Sam as a goodie two-shoes, “all good guy code” kinda guy… ??? Really? This show has forgotten it’s own history AGAIN. Soulless Sam? Sam after mystery spot? Demon Blood Sam? He was pretty ruthless, calculating and willing to go pretty far all those times; he’d have dropped Dark Charlie in a heartbeat if it meant Dean’s life. Oh how I wish the show would remember it’s own history, ESPECIALLY when it comes to Sam. In the unbelievably obvious conversation between Charlie and Dean and Sam about accepting the darkness as part of yourself would it have killed the writers to have Sam say something on the lines as “I’ve been there?” I know we are supposed to be connecting it to Dean, but he’s still working that out for himself as Charlie is; Sam’s the one whose been there already and come out on the other side and his assurance that it can be done because he’s done it could have gone a long way to reassuring Charlie AND Dean. That’s the kind of connection that USED to make this show so rich, but none of the writers are making those connections any more; I am not sure the writers even know those connections exist.
I disagree with your assessment on the Charlie and Dean fight; Dean had already broken her arm and had her at his mercy – he was wailing away on her at the end, and had given in to the MoC and lost control once again.
And in regards to Sam, I think he had changed significantly over the past few seasons; might not always have liked the way it has been portrayed on screen, but he has changed a lot. If you go all the way back to S1, Sam was always the one that questioned whether they should kill the monster or let it go if it hadn’t harmed anyone. In S3, Ruby told Sam that he’d need to do things that went against his gentle nature. And I think Dean knows that Sam’s “been there” so the fact that Sam has faith that Dean can overcome this carries that much more weight.
I think you’re right about the fight with Charlie, he kind of was wailing away on her a bit at the end and maybe he’d forgotten that what he was doing was harming good Charlie too. Still, I wish they would make it more obvious when Dean is succumbing to the mark… it wasn’t that obvious that it was the Mark fueling his rage at that moment (at least not to me anyway, I mean regular Dean has a right to get pissed when someone is beating the crap out of him too). They had been showing his hand shaking earlier in the ep, maybe they could have shown that again while Dean was pounding away and that would have made it more clear that it was the Mark stealing his ability to show restraint.
With Sam I think that they are having him be ultra extra good so that it will show when they have him go “dark side” or whatever in his bid to save Dean. It’s pretty clunky and obvious. I just wish that all of it… Dean and the mark, Sam and his supposedly ‘monstrousness’ was done with more at stake. Dean still really hasn’t done anything to feel overly guilty about; beating up Dark Charlie was probably the worst of it, and she was Dark Charlie, not good Charlie and the rest of the Mark stuff has just been so totally blah. I don’t want Dean to become irredeemable at all, but none of what’s going on feels especially dire to me.
Here’s what I’d like to see; I want Dean to kill Claire. She’s not all that well liked in fandom, but the killing of someone so young and so close to Cas would really cause a ruckus and raise the stakes on this whole MoC thing. Then with her dying breath she could solve the now nearly non-existent angel grace issue for Cas (is that still a story? It seems like the writers have totally forgotten about it); cause a huge rift between Cas and the boys so that he could stop showing up to be deus ex machina, it would raise the stakes on the MoC and make everyone absolutely desperate to solve the problem, give something for Dean to REALLY feel guilty about AND get rid of the wretched and awful Claire all in one fell swoop. Too much?
Hi E – I was wondering that with Sam, too, to draw a sharp contrast to what he might do later this season in his efforts to save Dean. And I couldn’t agree more about what you brought up about Dean – that has been my big problem with the Demon Dean / MoC Dean story line, the fact that everyone he’s killed so far “had it coming”. They’re probably doing this to make him redeemable but I wish they would push the envelope and take that chance.
E, I couldn’t agree more w/you. So far, for me, Dean hasn’t done any thing under the Mark or as a demon that I thought was truly awful. Nothing. And unlike you guys, I feel like they are showing he can control it, which makes the story all the more strange to me. When Claire told him to stop, he stopped. When Sam told him to stop, he stopped. I think that has happened a few times now.
I don’t know. This MOC story is not working for me. To me, if it puts Dean in a blood lust then he shouldn’t be able to stop simply b/c someone shouts at him. I thought he was holding back in the 2nd DC fight b/c he didn’t want to hurt Charlie, but then he gave into the Mark. I’m not sure about the first fight. Charlie is not super-powered right? Dean should have been able to take her with or w/o the MOC.
Yes, it would have killed the writers b/c clearly Sam’s role in this arc is to just stand there and look worried and make secret calls to Cas, suggesting things they should have done MONTHS ago. Ugh . . . . I didn’t care for this episode at all, and I esp. didn’t care for the way Sam was written. He literally has no voice in this story, and it’s beyond ridiculous at this point. It really bothered me that he would let Dean track DC knowing Dean is fighting the MOC. That decision makes no sense. Why did Sam allow that to happen? Why was he surprised to see Dean beating down DC? Of course he was! In the interrogation, he was clearly concerned that Dean was going to fly off the handle, but he didn’t intervene or say anything later. Why? I know he saw Dean put that huge knife in his backpack. Why?
What is Sam’s role in this story? To just stand there and observe the things that happen around him? To trust Dean to make the right choices but then be shocked when it doesn’t work out? I am happy some are enjoying Sam’s role in this arc, but I cannot. He is far too passive for me. I wish he were a bit more active.
But Sam wasn’t the only one I felt was poorly written. Dean . . . . . I guess the MOC has made him lose IQ points right along w/Sam. Someone on another board suggested Dean lost about 100 in this episode, and Sam only lost 60 so there ya go! He fell for DC’s lies? Really?!?! That was just plain silly and unbelievable. When DC stole his car, I told my sister, “Dean is really off his game tonight.” Sadly, I think that had more to do w/Charlie than the Mark.
I like a lot about Robbie Thomson as a writer, but he does have a tendency to make Charlie “the smartest person in the room” as Sam said in Slumber Party. That means Dean and Sam get pretty dumbed down whenever Charlie shows up.
I have pretty much given up on the idea that Sam will have a useful part on this show. Last night was nice because he had actual dialog and interacted with someone other than Dean and Cas. But I’m pretty much expecting a Dean gets cured while Sam becomes the TRULY evil one entirely off screen. I really expect Dean and Cas to talk about all the bad things Sam did while Sam is off getting coffee so we know he’s become bad without the writers having to try to write Sam dialog or POV.
Percy, like you, I have given up on Sam getting an actual active support role in this story. That is clearly not going to happen. He is going to be relegated to the background expressing concern until he does whatever “monstrous” thing he’s supposed to do.
This season is very boring to me. At this point, I am ready for them to get on w/the story. We have been spinning our wheels all season. There has been no forward movement on anything except Cas’s lame story. Crowley still doesn’t know what his mom is up to and what she wants. Dean is still battling the Mark just as he was last year. This episode presented nothing new. Charlie’s issue were intended to parallel Dean’s, but as usual, the boys are written to be incompetent and stupid in the presence of certain guest stars, and this was no exception.
Now, some may enjoy the way Sam was portrayed in this episode, but I hated it. In fact, I haven’t liked the way he’s been written all season. He just hasn’t done much of anything this year. He is in an extremely passive support role at the moment, and I don’t care for it. Others might like it, but I much preferred Dean’s active support role in past seasons to whatever they have Sam doing, which is standing around doing nothing.
I found this episode boring. I think I’m just done w/the season. Haha. I’m ready for the conclusion of the MOC story – couldn’t care less about the conclusion of Crowley’s and Cas’s stories – and for a new story to emerge. This story is terminally boring to me, and it’s the only one that could be massively entertaining. My criticism has nothing to do w/JA or w/Dean getting the mytharc. I just think the way this story is being told is bad. No chances are being taken w/Dean. It’s just boring to me. Every week, I just feel bored watching Supernatural, which is sad b/c I didn’t always feel that way.
All I could think when Charlie said she had to turn herself dark to save Oz was Sam should talk to her about oh trying to do that in season four and having to take on the pure evil of Lucifer to save the world. But no, it’s all about Dean who took on the MOC to keep Crowley King of Hell. And before anyone tells me that Abaddon had to be stopped, I still don’t see how she was worse for HUMANITY than Crowley. She had demons possess soldiers, Crowley has his demons possess anyone they can find. I just never bought Abaddon as worse than Crowley.
Agreed Percys… I never understood the logic of the whole set up of Dean going after Abbadon and then suddenly becoming besties with Dean. In the episode prior to Dean taking the mark he had vowed to Sam that he was going on a one man crusade to track down Gadreel for what he’d done to Sam and Kevin. Then all of a sudden he’s just got to kill Abbadon? Why? The whole set up made no sense. Are we really supposed to believe that seasoned hunter Dean was manipulated that easily by Crowley? Using what argument? What was Dean’s incentive to buy in? The Devil you know etc…? Completely lame. Then for completely no reason whatsoever, Crowley develops a crush on Dean? Why? What did they share? Sam and Crowley shared blood, so why was Crowley mooning after Dean? Again illogical, nonsensical story telling.
[quote] He is in an extremely passive support role at the moment, and I don’t care for it. Others might like it, but I much preferred Dean’s active support role in past seasons to whatever they have Sam doing, which is standing around doing nothing. [/quote]
Yes, like when Sam was soulless, Dean induced heart failure on himself so he could talk to Death and he got Sam’s soul back. I’m not suggesting that Sam should be the one to talk to Cain or take the mark (we would never hear the end of Sam “stealing” Dean’s story). But the momentum Sam had at the beginning of the season when he was looking for Dean should not have ended because Dean was “cured”. Sam could have still continued being an all-out hunter without being “dark” like he was when he thought that Dean was dead or worse.
The ending of this episode wasn’t effective because Sam cheerleading Dean (and I don’t mean that in a bad way) is something that should be a given at this point in the season. There should have been more insight into the characters than just Sam saying, [i] “She’s right, Dean. You can do this. We can do this,” [/i] and Dean replying, [i] “Then let’s get to work.” [/i]
The line where it was said that Dark Charlie won the war on Oz SINGLE HANDEDLY was the moment where I think I finally realized that Charlie is never going to be written as anything more than the biggest Mary-Sueish character who ever Mary-Sued and I think that, along with how RT continually writes Sam and Dean as blithering incompetents instead of the two most experienced Hunters in the Supernatural world? Please. WRITE the character strongly – don’t tell me what you aren’t able to show me! Why can’t Sam and Dean be the intelligent, efficient and able bodied Hunters they are with Charlie being written to match??? I always liked Charlie in small doses – I personally didn’t care for the Oz ep, but with this last outing I think RT may have finally killed any feelings I ever had for Charlie. And the ending? If they hand any of the saving Dean/MOC storyline to Charlie when it should only truly involve Sam (and in a lesser role, Cas)… As it is they have already shortened the Demon Dean storyline (why couldn’t they have moved the Kate/Werewolf ep later, or better? Not at all.) Now they are dragging out the MOC for a mildly entertaining episode like this weeks? Gah! Sorry I’m ranting a bit but I can’t help but be disappointed and not just because I’m more Dean oriented but for Sam as well!!! They could’ve done so much more – even if they just drug out the time Sam looked for Dean. It was just so full of so many different ways they could’ve gone. Maybe they will but just use the MOC Dean in Demon Deans place. Just no Charlie saves the day, please. Im still upset over how they took the Bunker save from Sam with a Cas hug.
If he dies and returns a full fledged demon then I think he would be but I don’t see where Dean is immortal yet. Which begs the question – what exactly is he right now? A demon/human hybrid? I’d like to see him have to keep the MOC. They could write it so that it is the burden/curse Cain said it to be. Make it so that each time he slips into MOC mode that theres a price. Maybe drawing closer to where the MOC takes him over and theres no turning back. That he has to fight that darkness by resisting as Sam said. I think Deans just in denial overdrive right now what with the healthy eating, no booze, women or distractions but he needs to learn that the strength comes from within just as Sam has had to learn. I dont want to see Dean become a Deus ex machina either. I also don’t want it to be a cakewalk where they magically find a way to rid him of it especially after Cain has borne his for all this time. The MOC should have a consequence.
[quote]If he dies and returns a full fledged demon then I think he would be but I don’t see where Dean is immortal yet.[/quote]
Even though he’s essentially mortal now, if he’s killed again he will wake up immediately as a demon, and round and round we go. He can’t die, period. That makes him immortal. He’s stuck in a loop, which dramatically is pretty dull. His only option right now is to stay human as best he can and fight the Mark’s influence. For me the way that the MoC has been set up, if Dean keeps it, it makes him all powerful against the boy’s supernatural foes and that too is boring and lacks drama. I want it gone at some point and for Dean AND Sam to be the scrappy underdog humans that they’ve always been, fighting against terrible odds and winning through sheer luck and determination and reliance on one another. That’s what makes this show work IMO is that the brothers are just regular humans fighting against impossible odds and winning anyway, but always at a cost. Sam only had extraordinary powers for a single season and that was leading towards something specific, the releasing of Lucifer from hell. After that the powers were gone, and with good reason. Our protagonists need to be human, with human limitations for there to be any real sense of danger or for us to buy into the drama, be concerned for them or root for them. I don’t mind the MoC story playing out to a suitable end, but it must end IMO or the ‘all powerful’ aspect of it creates huge problems. The demon blood was used for a specific reason, but so far I don’t see the MoC having a specificity about it, and that’s a problem. What was the point of Dean getting the mark? What is the purpose of going down this road? With Sam and the demon blood it was to release Lucifer into the world and then have the boys spend the whole next season dealing with the impending apocalypse as regular human beings. The MoC currently does not seem to have a relevant point such as this and it needs it. This is just my opinion of course, so feel free to disagree. 😉
But is it “all powerful,” E? There have been times this year that I thought Dean would NOT have been taken down b/c of the Mark, yet he was. I know that has more to do w/the plot point writing but it is annoying. Dean has not yet been presented as all-powerful even though he has the Mark, but that could always change on a whim. There’s no consistency w/this show anymore so who knows?
I do agree w/your larger point. Heck, if Sam’s powers were too powerful, then surely the Mark must be.
If the whole demon blood thing had been handled differently, I could live with Dean learning to manage the MOC. But the scenario you present basically boils down to Dean is so magnificent that he can overcome the darkest link to Lucifer in the history of the world, proving Sam is scum for not being able to control the demon blood. I’m just sick of Sam being shown as weak, bad and wrong and Dean as perfect.
E – Does it make me a bad person to kinda second that motion about MOCDean killing Claire? Yes? Ok, it’s just you and me then…. 😉
I think Dean was starting to go all MOC on Charlie. Up until he had her on the ground and was starting to wail on her and break her arm it looked like he was holding back. I agree. I want to see more RAAWWWR!!!!! I’m not seeing the dire either. If they are going to promise monstrous on both Sam and Deans part – then lets see it! I’ve been more upset over a messed up fast food order! Kidding! Just kidding! I’m not THAT monsterous!!!! 🙂
Also – ENOUGH with tying Sam up – magically or otherwise!!!!!!! Unless Sams monsterousness is obtaining a super power where he can’t be knocked out or tied up how will he ever save Dean!!! I bet Hairman wouldn’t have these issues!!! Like Sam would be that easily overcome. Sometimes I wonder if some of these writers don’t have a secret Sam kink. 😉
I have a not so secret Sam kink….. I LOVE tied up Sammy. At least this time it was done by an all-powerful wizard, which is at least somewhat believable that Sam could be overcome by the Great and Powerful OZ as opposed to, say, a 93 pound vampire girl in a floor length hippy skirt and dread locks.
Yeah… Claire’s gotta go. I despise that whole story line; it’s soap opera schlock and absolutely insufferable. I don’t buy Cas’s concern at all; why her? Why now? (Hannah not withstanding…that as a lead in doesn’t work for me). If Dean were to kill her and Cas got his left over grace out of her then he could solve the problem of the souls still in the veil too. Geez, killing Claire would solve ALL KINDS of dangling plot points. Sounds good to me. Now it just remains to be seen if the writers remember that Cas still has waning grace, that souls are still stuck in the veil and need rescuing, that heaven is still essentially closed, and that Cas was inside Claire in the first place.
Like Cas, I like emoticons. (Not really)
E – point taken. It does need to have a relevant point but honestly the way this season and Deans plotline has been meandering, I’m not sure our current stable of writer’s even know. I kinda believe that they weren’t even sure where to take it until this second half! I’m curious to see what Cain says. I read that it’s supposed to be an emotional episode for Dean. Why? What would make it emotional? Something he learns or that he has to kill Cain?
Unfortunately I think that’s true. If I got the sense that Dean having the MoC was leading toward some awful and inevitable thing then I’d probably be more on board with it. Even though we didn’t know where the demon blood story was going it was clear that it was going somewhere with the added bonus of not really knowing which side to root for, the angel side or the demon side. It was plotting genius and made very episode an edge of your seat nail bitter. I wish the MoC had that kind of drive, that kind of danger and drama. You’d think that a show in its 10th year, with a built in fan base would feel like it could take some risks, but the MoC story is so tragically conservative and slow moving that’s its practically inert. I really don’t want Dean to do something irredeemable; but I want them to take more risks with his character… to help create more drama and suspense. Being irredeemable is actually more in the aftermath than in the act itself, and we can forgive a repentant man more easily than an unrepentant one. I think that they could go much, much further with Dean and his guilt and remorse would go a long way to having us forgive him in the end even if he does do more than kill demons and scumbag humans who “deserve it.” Currently the MoC is about as suspenseful as watching bread bake because it really hasn’t made Dean to anything very questionable, or anything any more questionable than killing Jeffrey in season 6, or be as ruthless as the season 2 Dean who cut off the vamps head with a table saw, or be as reckless as he was in season 3. And watching Dean endlessly angst over something that isn’t that big of a deal is tiresome and would ultimately get in the way of how we perceive his remorse if he actually WERE to do something that really crosses the line.
If I got the sense that Dean having the MoC was leading toward some awful and inevitable thing then I’d probably be more on board with it.
Sadly, I get the sense that if the story is leading to some awful and inevitable thing, it will be Sam doing something irredeemable. Because I don’t think the writers give a care about Sam’s character and hurting it.
Souls? What souls? Ha! Looks like Tessa made the right call – suicide by First Blade… She would’ve gone insane by now. That is, if the souls-stuck-in-the-veil isn’t just another dropped storyline in the history of dropped/forgotten/neglected/shortened storylines.
Maybe Claire somehow sacrifices herself when Deans all MOC mode and that way it wouldnt tarnish or make Dean so irredeemable? I’m liking it but would Show go that dark? Maybe that will be season end cliffhanger…..
Tied down, bloody, beaten up, hurting, shirtless, emotional… Sam and Dean? Mmmmmmm…. Yeah, were sick, sick puppies!!! But who can blame us?
Seriously, I’m there with you – it just seems like that’s the go to for Sam. C’mon! Have you ever drug someone’s dead weight unconcious body (I have. Just yesterday now that I think about it….:)). We are supposed to buy that these foes have the strength to do that? Let alone get him on a chair and tie him up… Now supernatural beings I can but Cole, humans?… It’s just lazy writing and makes Sam look weak where he wouldn’t be. I just wish they would be more creative while honoring the Hunter Sam is.
E – Hey now! Don’t dis watching bread bake! That’s just crossing the line! Talk about irredeemable!!!
I think they made a mistake cutting the DemonDean storyline short and if they planned on having the MOC/First Blade be the stronger focus instead – I wish they would bloody well get on with it. I’m hoping it takes off once Dean gets hold of the FB. He will have to have it to kill Cain, right?
Did you have to be cruel and bring up the strong writing/plots of past seasons??? (I’m crying in my cereal now) I’m keeping my fingers crossed that they are going to have a strong second half but I’m starting to waiver some…
Yeah… that whole “we have to cure Dean before episode 200” thing was bizarre. That was a random decision based off of something non story related and was used to affect the flow of the story. Bad idea. The TPTB could have given their thank you to the fans at any time, it didn’t have to be during the 200th episode. I would have liked to have seen DD go on until mid season finale and then have the cure be a two parter with Sam and Dean being put through the ringer twice as much as Sam and Crowley. Or at the very least have episode 200 be the cure if they wanted something really special for that ep. At least DD could have gone on for a few more eps and might have built up to something more than it did. Deciding to give the fans a “love letter” and putting that love letter in the 200th episode was completely arbitrary and it appears that they didn’t consider the flow of their current story lines AT ALL when they did it. And for me, I’d have rather had the 200th episode be a meaningful myth arc ep the way the 100th episode was rather than this thing that took us completely out of the current narrative. Fan fiction was fun and completely appreciated by the fans and could have been aired almost anywhere other than where it was aired.
E – I don’t know that Show would know what to do with an ‘awful and inevitable thing’ anymore…
E – preachin to the Choir! You took the words right out of my mouth. The DemonDean storyline was just starting to get interesting, DDean getting darker and Sam and what he was going thru…then BAM!!! unnecessary Kate ep and then instead of 200th being an epic, one for the seasons, like the 100th… we get Fan Fiction. After that I think the entire story overall (not just DD) unraveled and has been meandering ever since. All that time devoted to Hanna/Cas road trip couldnt have been cut down? I don’t anticipate much happening until Cain returns. PLEASE SHOW – make me realize the errors of my ways!
A better, more appreciated thank you to the fans would’ve been a stronger written season! Maybe a new writer or two…Ha!
Hmm… This episode was maybe a bit too slow towards the end. The premise of the episode should have probably been stronger because even though another member of the Men of Letters and the Wizard of Oz were introduced, it didn’t amount to much. The whole episode was basically about the dual nature of Charlie (humans) and Dean struggling with his craving.
Charlie’s line [i] “Cos who doesn’t love a little torture?” [/i] didn’t quite hit the mark.
I’ve seen too many times that opening shot of Sam and/or Dean sitting around one of the tables at the Men of Letters’ bunker and reading something. Boring. When Sam and Dean used to stay at motels, it allowed for switching things up a little.
When Dean said that Charlie practically sparkles, was Thompson acknowledging that some think that Charlie is a Mary Sue? (It might have been just a Twilight reference.)
The mark of Cain’s effect on Dean seems very literal like Dean having the shakes etc. I think that the scene showing Dean in his room was over the top. Are only blades supposed to be triggering weapons for him?
Thompson has a reputation of giving Dean/Cas fans what they want but is he now a fan of Cockles, too? Of course Sam got an angel alias so they might say that they were just keeping with a theme… ETA Apparently, the aliases might have two meanings (a reference to a band and the show).
When Dean roughed up the DA, it was very reminiscent of how he behaved during an interrogation after he had come back from Purgatory.
I’m not a fan of the CGI Impala.
I think that season one Sam wouldn’t have needed someone to hold his hand while he was hacking.
Dean looking himself in the mirror strikes again!
The bartender looked really young like she was still a teenager and she seemed quite innocent so it was a little weird to see Dean and Charlie checking her out.
I wasn’t really feeling the scene where Sam was being strangled. That scenario has happened one too many times to be all that effective anymore?
So now there is a book that they can research? Okay…
There was a surprisingly nice hug between Sam and Charlie. Jared’s smile was probably what sold it to me. Finally, Charlie being friends with both of the brothers seems real. Charlie used to be more like the little sister that [i] Dean [/i] never had.
Was the narrative trying to point out that whatever Dean does, it can’t be blamed on the mark? The good and the bad is all him in the end?
Dean trying out healthy, clean living was unexpected but at the same time Dean’s attempts to keep himself on the straight and narrow felt very surface-y (changing his diet, listening to a self-help tape etc.) He will have to work a lot harder to be able to be stronger than the mark’s influence on him. And then he almost went with his old coping mechanism, drinking. That hasn’t worked well for him before or after taking the mark.
I hope that Dean will start to let Sam in on what is happening to him. They are supposed to be close and not just because they are related. But instead, Dean told Sam that he was on his way even though he was actually sitting at a bar and staring at a shot of booze. Dean doesn’t want to show his vulnerabilities to Sam but he is in a very serious situation, it’s not just about him anymore.
I think that the key is Dean learning to believe in himself. Not even Sam’s faith in Dean will be enough. After all, Cain was able to be disciplined for a couple hundred years but in the end he caved because [i] “I’ve tried. I’ve tried, Colette, to see myself as you did. But I know who I am — Seen what I am.” [/i] And Dean can’t believe in himself before he forgives himself. Does he fear that he can’t be truly forgiven even by Sam? Maybe Dean will try to do something self-sacrificing which could ironically be an almost easy way out for him.
To make this storyline more exciting, they need to make a clearer connection between the burden that comes with the mark and Dean needing to do his job. From the get-go, the dichotomy of “saving people, hunting things” means being both a hero and a killer. Now every time Dean is putting himself on the line, he might also be feeding the mark through killing.
I feel like this episode might have foreshadowed Sam “going darker”. He was present when Dean or Charlie talked about having a dark side etc. but Sam didn’t take a strong stance so it’s like Sam is going to have his turn sitting in the hot seat.
I was on the edge of my seat when Sam was looking for Dean because I didn’t know what the writers were going to have Sam do. However, I don’t feel as anxious for Dean because the mark’s effect on Dean is not that different from what was shown already during season nine. Technically, the stakes are higher because now everyone knows that one little slip-up is all that it would take for Dean to wake up as a demon again and he would be more difficult to cure for a second time. However, there isn’t a real sense of urgency. It’s more like Dean just doesn’t want to be stuck with the mark because having the mark makes him feel like crap about himself. They haven’t even explored what part of demon Dean was the real Dean. Dean’s decisions have had bad consequences but he hasn’t been fully himself the whole time so I can’t really get into the whole Dean-is-beating-himself-up thing.
Thompson has a reputation of giving Dean/Cas fans what they want but is he now a fan of Cockles, too? Of course Sam got an angel alias so they might say that they were just keeping with a theme…
Thompson said that he was using Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel (both from the group Genesis) for the names. Since musician names are the aliases the boys use, it makes sense.
I think that season one Sam wouldn’t have needed someone to hold his hand while he was hacking.
I think season ten Sam wouldn’t need someone to hold his hand with hacking, but Robbie thinks that Charlie must always be smarter, stronger and better than anyone else. Frankly, it would have made more sense that not-affected-by-the-MOC Sam go after bad Charlie while not-so-good-with-computers Dean stayed with good Charlie. However I think RT was trying to give Sam and Charlie some interaction since it was pointed out that she really only ever bonded with Dean.
I feel like this episode might have foreshadowed Sam “going darker”. He was present when Dean or Charlie talked about having a dark side etc. but Sam didn’t take a strong stance so it’s like Sam is going to have his turn sitting in the hot seat.
Well of course it was. Lord know, they couldn’t have Sam talk to “Saved Oz all by myself by going dark” Charlie about drinking demon blood to TRY to save the world and heaven forbid he talk about really turning to the dark side by saying yes to Lucifer to actually save the world. No! Sam must forever and ever be blamed for his missteps while Charlie starts to make Dean see that HIS darkness is hunky dory fine. After all when/if Sam turns dark how will Dean be able to shame him about “How could you go so FAR, Sammy? I should be hunting you down!”. Demon Dean treated Anne Marie better than a lot of men treat women (see Lester) he was the nicest, kindest demon in the world. I bet he helped little old ladies cross the street.
I’m pretty much fed up with Dean’s reputation must not be sullied while Sam gets the going dark storyline with ZERO look at his POV. Between this, Crowley and his Mum and Cas’s daddy issues it’s been a hard season for me.
[quote] Thompson said that he was using Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel (both from the group Genesis) for the names. Since musician names are the aliases the boys use, it makes sense. [/quote]
Hah, I was just editing my post before seeing your reply. 😀 I’m leaning towards Thompson knowing that the name Collins (paired with Gabriel) would create a second association at least among the fans. And he could have given that alias to Sam instead of Dean/Jensen… Wouldn’t the name Gabriel as an alias feel weird to Sam and Dean?
[quote] Frankly, it would have made more sense that not-affected-by-the-MOC Sam go after bad Charlie while not-so-good-with-computers Dean stayed with good Charlie. [/quote]
I wonder whether that was Thompson’s attempt to do some kind of parallel between the characters.
[quote] Sam must forever and ever be blamed for his missteps while Charlie starts to make Dean see that HIS darkness is hunky dory fine. [/quote]
Ugh, I hope not. Sam tried to prevent the apocalypse and he tried to turn his curse into something good. Dean wanted to kill Abaddon etc. In both cases, the consequences were bad. Yet Sam is called arrogant etc. for his actions whereas Dean is seen as more like a victim or circumstances and some even try to make it Sam’s fault that Dean has the mark!
This ‘woe is me’ shit is on
my last GOOD nerve.
j/s
Minor question. When did sex become “bad” in this show? Because the line where “good” Charlie said she usually would have hit on the bartender and now she wanted to buy her club soda and send her to college really hit a wrong note for me. The woman was tending bar, which in my state means over the age of 21, so we aren’t talking underage sex here. And what the heck is wrong with tending bar? It wasn’t an awful bar or a dangerous one from what we saw. Dean having sex is presented as a good thing. Why is Charlie (or Sam for that matter) having sex or even wanting sex suddenly proof that they are “bad”? It did bug me.
OH HUN,
you know the ‘holy’ folk say only
within marriage and THEN only for
‘procreating’.
The way Charlie acted when she drove up to Dean was weird. She didn’t seem all that good because she was being so cheerful even though the other Charlie had been torturing people. Good Charlie wasn’t supposed to be just a Stepford version of Charlie.
I do think that Thompson wrote Sam interacting with Charlie in this episode because it’s been said that Charlie has connected with Dean much more than she has with Sam. Maybe Thompson felt that his writing abilities were being questioned or he is really in love with the character he created so he wanted to make sure that Sam and Charlie’s friendship would be featured too.
[quote] @feliciaday
A scene got cut here in the car where I told Jared about my relationship with Dorothy in Oz but it got cut for time #Supernatural [/quote]
https://twitter.com/feliciaday/status/560307270459068417
[quote] @rthompson1138
So bummed the scene w/ @jarpad & @feliciaday in the car got cut– they were both rad! Fingers crossed for the DVD 🙁 #Supernatural [/quote]
https://twitter.com/rthompson1138/status/560306945471807488
I’m starting to wonder whether some editors, directors or producers don’t care for Jared’s acting since we keep hearing about different scenes that got cut. And some of Sam’s lines in the promos never make it into the actual episode. Jensen has talked about the praise he got from the editors. Charlie and Dean have had many moments together, those weren’t “cut for time”.
Thanks for the links SanSummer1 🙂
You’re welcome, NOLANOLA! 🙂
I did wonder what happened between Charlie and Dorothy in Oz but more than that, Sam relating to another character could have made the audience feel more connected with him (like it has worked out for Dean the many times that he was the one who shared a scene with a guest star.)
Good Charlie asked, [i] “Is he (Dean) okay?” [/i] and Sam’s answer was, [i] “Uhh… I’ll tell you on the way. Come on.” [/i] Seeing on-screen Sam talk about the mark could have given more insight into how Sam feels about the situation that he and especially his brother are in.
Somehow this double posted. OOPS
It certainly does seem that more of Jared’s scenes get “cut for time” than Jensen’s. It could be an issue with Jared, although with all the fan involvement in BTS information on Supernatural I would think if there was a real issue we would have heard. It could also be because the writers don’t seem to have a handle on Sam’s character, that when it comes time to cut a few minutes Jared’s scenes are the least well written. In any case, I find it very frustrating that we get so little on Sam.
There’s been a lot of talk about Sam’s reduced time on-screen and Jensen & Jared wanting to work less so it certainly doesn’t help that the scenes Sam is in get cut! Jared was on set, he filmed those scenes so why not let us see the end result?
At least the writers do put little moments in the scripts like showing Sam in the kitchen. Maybe some deem them not important enough to be put in the final product but I do think that those could have been the small moments that make the characters seem more real.
And I don’t think it’s all that wise to cut lines from scenes that focus on the brothers because the relationship between the brothers is the heart of the show after all.
If those scenes arent deemed important enough to make the final cut then they shouldn’t have been written in at all, Jared should not have to waste his time filming scenes that arent going to make the episode. He wastes enough time on the show as it is, filming scenes where he stands around doing nothing other than making faces.
It [i]seems[/i] that way? SEEMS! I am considering starting a thread on the discussion page where we can discuss the ‘unnecessary’ scenes that Sam was in that could be cut from earlier seasons.
His fight with Jake at Cold Oak for instance
Him winning the battle with Lucifer while Lucifer was beating up Dean at the car
Is it REALLY necessary for us to have seen Sam interacting with his mother in ‘Home’?
What about Sam and Crowley in Sacrifice, more of that wasted time could have been set in the pub with Castiel.
It was necessary in this episode that Dean should stare sadly at stuff, I get that: he stared sadly at alcohol, a knife, his shaking hand, his non-shaking hand, alcohol, kale, a barmaid, a secretary and Charlie. There wasn’t room for any conversations between Sam and other characters even if they WERE about Dean. Which I realize now they probably weren’t but still ….
Sorry for the outrage, it’s just that the amount of character input from Sam that has been left on the cutting room floor over the past couple of seasons has really started to become unmissable.
On what are you basing your belief that more Sam scenes are cut?
On the basis that writers, directors and Jared have mentioned when a Jared scene is cut. I do believe they cut a Jensen/Benny scene in season 8 but that was because the scenes was about Benny admitting that he was drinking human blood again and it would have meant that Dean killing him to help Sam back from Purgatory would have been more about Benny deserving to be put down as he was a monster. They cut the scene because they wanted to have Dean and Benny to come across as self sacrificing heroes for Sam and to make Sam the bad guy. I believe it was Jensen who infuenced that decision as he complained about that scene to the writers and got it cut because he wanted the possibility of Benny coming back to remain an option and because he Jensen was under the impression that season that Sam was selfish and self absorbed and has no qualms with Sam being depicted that way.
Well, I can see where it would have been awkward to have Dean ask Benny to do him a favor and get his brother out of purgatory and also kill him because he deserved it because he was a monster. Not that I ever heard that story. While Jensen may have some control while they are filming an epiisode about what his character does I don’t believe he has control over editing. I have heard him say some directors are involved in the editing but he said that even when he directs he can’t be because he is working on another episode. Since I’m not an editor, I have no clue why they might cut a scene but I doubt it is a conspiracy against Jared, especially by Jensen.
I agree with Paradiseheat that the Benny scene where he admitted to the things he had done should have been left in. It would have made the episode where Sam was (rightfully, even without evidence) suspicious of Benny and the murders more reasonable, because honestly suspecting vampires of being vampires is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. It still could have been left that Benny hadn’t committed THOSE murders but it would have made the whole scenario a lot less one-sided and ridiculous. And in the episode where Dean was asking Benny for the favour of going to Purgatory to rescue Sam it would have had the double benefit of Benny helping Sam because he knew that Sam was trying to do the right thing in protecting people from Benny (which Benny was trying to resist doing – see: feeling guilty for your acts, it is rather a theme of the show) and in helping Benny help Dean to commit to the actual act of killing Benny. As it was it came over as Dean really being willing to sacrifice anyone for Sam. Which is really one of the things Sam pointed out to him in the Purge.
Having said that, even though Jensen had a lot of character bleed the last 2 seasons (which I am fairly sure I have seen him admitting to) and yes it did have an effect on the way he talked about Sam and his ‘selfishness’ (which is all in Dean’s head and not what we saw in the actual season …. ) that bleed didn’t at all include Jared. They both know the difference.
Also I really don’t think that Jensen had any pull over removing that scene (or most scenes) – in fact he raved so much about acting opposite Ty Olson that I doubt very much that he would have seen any of the stuff they did removed if it were his choice. I think he would rather have a complex scene that adds a layer to his character than a simple scene making Dean look good. Though I imagine from his point of view ‘Dean looking good’ is definitely a bonus he isn’t going to argue with.
– There was a Sam and Dean scene cut in the first ep of Season 8 (right at the end, they mentioned it at a con)
– A scene last season that I can’t remember the details of but they left in Sam ‘looking’ because Jared can express so much just looking (which is a sort of backhanded compliment I suppose).
– Sam apparently carried Dean into the room after he died and put him on the bed. I have an idea there was an over the body monologue as well but I might be confusing that with a con question….
– There was a good deal more of the Dean is dead scene at the end of Season 9 – which they have both said Jared poured his heart into.
– A Sam and Crowley scene with a gun was cut from Sacrifice.
– A scene was cut of Sam cooking in the kitchen for Dean.
– Sam had a conversation with Jody about how worried he was about Dean.
– Sam had a conversation with his grandfather about Sam and John.
– Sam’s scene with Charlie was cut, though apparently it wasn’t about Dean or even Sam, so maybe it wasn’t missed.
– A scene showing that Benny wasn’t all innocent and so Sam was proven to not be entirely in the wrong (as opposed to Sam just simply NOT being in the wrong – since he wasn’t) was also cut.
These are the ones we know about. *shrug* They add together to remove character developing traits for Sam and also remove a lot of the stuff that SHOWED Sam looking after Dean’s welfare, making him look uninterested. And funnily enough if Jared acted them out, and doesn’t necessarily see the finished episode, HE is then under the impression that far more of Sam is getting to the screen than is actually getting there. Jared has actually said (I am paraphrasing ’cause I can’t find the quote) ‘why do people think that Sam doesn’t care as much about Dean as Dean does about Sam, he went to the cage for him?’
Thank you, eilf.
[quote] – A scene last season that I can’t remember the details of but they left in Sam ‘looking’ because Jared can express so much just looking (which is a sort of backhanded compliment I suppose). [/quote]
I believe you are referring to what Robbie Thompson tweeted when episode 9.18 [i] Meta Fiction [/i] aired:
[quote] @rthompson1138
Sam said “I’m worried about him (Dean)” but that got cut, but it plays in his eyes cause @jarpad is the shit #thanks #Supernatural [/quote]
https://twitter.com/rthompson1138/status/456294195376836609
That editing choice certainly didn’t do any favors to the characterization of Sam since even now there are fans who think that Sam didn’t show/voice concern for Dean until Dean was already too far gone.
Hi SanSummer! Thank you for that! I knew it was a relevant scene! I was hunting high and low on RT’s twitter but I can see now why ‘look’ and ‘word’ weren’t finding the tweet ‘though ‘jarpad’ should have ….
I don’t get the cutting of Sams scenes either! WHY cut either of your leads time down? It’s not like some of Charlies scenes couldn’t have been trimmed in this episode! You film it – use it! The last episode with Rowena and Crowley? Some of Rowenas time couldn’t be trimmed? We’re not 5, we can follow a storyline without every single second shown. I know that Sam is going to be featured more 2nd half – driven to find solution to MOC and save Dean so hopefully starting with next weeks episode we will see an increase in Sams storyline. It boggles the mind – the boys are there filming, TPTB are paying them for their time and yet it’s more important for the weekly guest stars to be featured ad nauseum. They cut some Sam and I think Deans scenes during Claire-paloosa. Why? I like this Sam – I want to see more too!
Also if Show brings Charlie back where she in any way makes anything other than a very minor, practically non existant contribution to save Dean instead of it being Sam? I could be done with the show. I about lost my lunch when they sent Charlie off to find the book. There has been zero episodes she has been in where in all her magnificent Mary-Sueishness she hasn’t rescued the boys and saved the day. Please Show, no. Just no. If anyone saves Dean it has to be Sammy!
Aly, they cut a lot of things out of the episodes and targeting it to something because it was one characters scene is silly. And it gives tension to wrong spots. I mean we don’t even probably know what all scenes are not used nor put into an episode. It is an editorial matter. Like would I have wanted to see the cut scene when Dean in the pilot was outside when Sam returned to his apartment? The lights flicker and he rushes in to save Sam from the fire? Oh, and I actually would have wanted to see this scene in general. Not because it shows Dean as it was weird that Dean just popped up in the apartment like that… 😀
The scene was cut. End of. These things get cut. Maybe it didn’t work or like in this they said that there was not time for it to be there. We don’t know how it looked so it maybe strifed off from the main story what was the point in the episode. There is no conspiracy. It was just cut out. And also putting this over Jared’s and Jensen’s head because they want/don’t want family time off. I am not a mind reader so I don’t want to second guess what actors who I don’t really know in real life are thinking nor put things to their mouth.
I know everyone want different things from the show but the reality is we can’t get always what we want from it and there is 3 million or more that like and want totally different thing than you or any other. None of us are wrong nor right but we should allow different things to be on the show even if we don’t like them all. One in 3 million doesn’t sound much now does it? 🙂
– Lilah
I agree with you on this Lilah. What is cut is cut for editing purposes and is out of the actor’s and writer’s hands. It just is what it is. Usually the cut scenes I’ve seen in the DVD’s are interesting but not critical. Except maybe that one from the pilot episode. Lol. I’ve noticed other promo moments that have never shown up in the show itself.
Aye Prix and sometimes they actually don’t work or are so bad they are not used. There is many possibilities why. Even in this episode we see at the start a line and scene from Dean that was not on Hunter games. My reaction to it was. Hey! that wasn’t in the episode, lol. 🙂
Dean: “I can’t live like this” or something on the recap.
– Lilah
This promo shows part of that Sam/Charlie scene that was cut and also Sam saying to Dean, [i] “We will fix this,” [/i] that wasn’t aired in episode 10.10 [i] The Hunter Games[/i]:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=713usfNto7o
By the way, in the scene that got cut, good Charlie says to Sam, [i] “It’s always something with you boys, isn’t it?” [/i] She basically says the same line that evil Charlie says to Dean. So maybe the regular Charlie does think that Sam holds Dean back. But she could mean that in a good way too. Like Dean once told Sam, [i] “We keep each other human.” [/i]
Lilah – That all goes without saying and I’m not saying there is a conspiracy or stating that it has anything to do with the J’s. I’m not sure where you got that. What I’m saying is that these episodes are light enough on Sam and Dean as it is. Maybe it was bad footage or didn’t fit in, maybe it was good footage and did fit in only they decided to dedicate more of the episode to the current guest star… who knows. I just hate to see wasted opportunity for the main arch of the MOC to be squandered on something as boring as say the Cas/Hanna retrieval of rogue angels or the never ending roadtrip. And I like Cas so it isn’t a knock against Misha. They have limited access to the J’s time, I’d just like to see the show take advantage of what they do have.
Hey Aly,
Yeah, sorry the J2 thing was just totally random frustration that has been connected to the cut footage debate. Anyway, I do understand people’s frustration on some points. I let you in to a secret. I wasn’t too interested to the Cas/Hannah road trip either. Or Claire, or Rowena even though second outing was little better from both characters. Don’t tell anyone. 😉
But alright, below are some thoughts about stuff from all over the internet. I blame twitter…
The thing is. I have read that some people like those stories/characters. Some people love Hannah. Some people love Cas, Crowley, Rowena, Charlie, Claire and the stories involving them. I am diplomatic viewer. I love the boys and TFW the most but other people like said characters and stories so they are allowed to have them too of course. They are a part of the story so they are apart of Supernatural. I read so many opinions that this “X” character/story needs to take a hike just because they don’t like it. That doesn’t sound right to my ears. We just don’t have that power to decide for other people nor the right either. It is no easy task for those that really do make the show for us. I am sure they do see the feed back about the show but if they would do what everyone wants them to do guess what the show would be like?
We wouldn’t actually have a show. It would be a white screen or black. Because some don’t want even the brothers to be in the show. I’m not kidding. If there is love there is hate what actually fits to this episode too. I mean, for example if I owened the show I think I would do even worse job because of course I would mold it to my liking that probably 90% wouldn’t like. Glad I have my fan fiction though to write my own stuff there and even then I am afraid to write about the boys because I feel I have no right to touch them. 😀
Anyway, I guess I am too passionate to defend Supernatural against everything. That is sometimes really bad thing.
I hope this cleared my point of view a bit? Oh, and the brothers were awesome in this episode, but for at least me they are that always.
– Lilah
Lilah – Yup. Air cleared, no worries. 🙂
In other news… I was watching Road Trip today and I gotta say Jared hit that episode right out of the park and looked gorgeous the entire time he was doing so. When he tells Gadreel to “Get the Hell out!” – my vapors were having vapors! We are so fortunate to have such a talented awesome leads and cast! And soooo easy on the eyes! Jared, Jensen, Misha, Mark, Tamoh…