In less than a week Supernatural comes back! Here’s the sneak peek.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt6ySt8z1Cg&feature=em-uploademail
So Claire hates Cas, Dean is realizing that taking the Mark was a bad idea, Sam is worrying about Dean and we are about to hear Cas’s bad idea. It does look exciting. What do you think? Does this clip excite you? Are you glad we are going back to the Mark? Do you care about how Claire feels? Tell us you thoughts.
We have a sneak peek for Supernatural season 14 episode 15. Sam is not doing well after the slaughter of the AU hunters, going on constant hunts. Cas says Jack is struggling with his diminished soul and asks Dean to help. What do you take from this sneak peek? Let us know in…
Jim Beaver recently did an interview talking about Ghost!Bobby, how he was notified of Bobby’s impending death and more information on what it takes for ghosts to learn how be ghosts. Also about the reality that eventually ghosts turn angry and vengeful and Bobby’s views on how he plans on dealing with it. To read…
Another episode down, another preview clip for next week! Here’s the clip that aired after tonight’s episode for Supernatural episode 9.06 – “Heaven Can’t Wait.” Castiel is back! Share on FacebookTweetFollow usSave
The promotional pictures for the penultimate episode of season 14 of Supernatural. What do you think? Let us know in the comments or in the discussion thread for episode 19 Share on FacebookTweetFollow usSave
From the CW Air date Tuesday March 18 SUPERNATURAL “Blade Runners” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, DLV) (HDTV) CROWLEY SINKS DEEPER INTO HIS ADDICTION; NICOLE “SNOOKI” POLIZZI APPEARS IN A CAMEO ROLE — Dean (Jensen Ackles) is frustrated when he can’t reach Crowley (Mark Sheppard), who has promised to find The First Blade. When Crowley…
This news leaked on Twitter last night, from of all people the source, yet many were skeptical. Some thought the Twitter account had been hacked, some thought it was another Yeti joke, but today The CW confirmed it. Share on FacebookTweetFollow usSave
Really Dean? More self loathing? Crossing a line? Try self defense. What? If he killed them gentle (to quote Uriel) as opposed to a massacre that would be any different? They are still dead and they were still scumbags/rapists – including Randy (less the later part). Nice support and understanding Mr.’s Don’t Throw Stones In Glass Houses! WTH! Did he cross a line? Considering they were human, yeah – but he was also under the MOC influence, it’s not like he was in his right mind. I expected more from both Sam and Cas! It seems like the only time they truly miss or appreciate Dean is when he’s dead. What I personally want to see come about from this MOC storyline for Dean is that in the end he is a proud member of the “Honey Badger Don’t Give a Shi*!!!” Club and has a T-shirt to proove it.
Did Dean cross the line? Randy got killed in the massacre. He did some things that were not so nice in manipulating Claire and using her to save his sorry arse. Did he deserve for Dean to be the judge and jury? Sam got a pass for things he did when he was possessed by Meg-shooting Dean, kidnapping JO, and Gadreel-killing Kevin. and under the influence of demon blood he killed. The year he was souless he remembers killing civilians and he got a pass. So according to SPN rules, Dean will get a pass BUt his self loathing will go deeper-close to the remorse he felt for the torture he did in Hell. And for the story to go on… he has to get a pass. Metatron knows the contents of the demon tablet. It has to hurt Sam to use him to help Dean. Was Dean trained to be a killer and does the MOC only enhance this part of his character just like the blood did for Sam? So for that parallel, he will be given a pass on the “massacre”.
Dean got himself into this mess all on his own. No one fed him demon blood in his crib. No one was manipulating him. Dean went into this deal with his eyes wide open and he did something really stupid and now Sam and Cas are trying to clean up his mess. He massacres a room full of humans for no greater good. They were low life scumbags but that has never been their mission. Even Dean knew he had crossed the line. And by the looks of the promo photos the plan looks like as Sam said “the stupidest idea he has ever heard”. But Dean hasn’t left them with very many options since saving Dean is all that matters.
Jared’s acting seemed a bit off when Sam was thinking about what Dean did to Randy.
There was something a bit childlike about Dean when he wanted Castiel to magically make it all better. I find it surprising that Dean still thinks that he could get rid of the mark by having it burnt or cut off. Apparently, he hasn’t wanted to admit to himself that he could end up like Cain.
I don’t think that Dean had been self-sacrificing when he got the mark. He hadn’t wanted to hear what burden comes with the mark so it caught up with him eventually.
I think it’s a bit weird that Castiel and Sam find Dean’s actions regarding Randy to be so reprehensible but it is true that executing humans is not something they have a right to do.
Dean has killed others because they weren’t able to control themselves under supernatural influence so it makes sense to me that Dean judges himself harshly now.
Ugh…. am I supposed to feel badly for Dean now? Well sorry but I just don’t….. not even one teeny, tiny, little shred. He got himself into this mess by being dumb and now he’s concerned? Now he wants the mark off, now he’s realized it was a mistake? The black eyes weren’t his first clue? Geez. Dude, you DID THIS TO YOURSELF….it’s time to man up and find a way to fix it ………and don’t wallow. I mean five people had to die before you’d even admit to yourself that there was a problem. So, If there is another “I’m poison” speech coming, I’m turning off my television set. Can we have everybody being PRO-active for a change?
I don’t care how scummy those people were, Dean had no right to unleash his Supernatural mojo on them. And saying that it’s the MoC’s fault and that Dean wasn’t in control (insinuating that he gets a pass) is the mother of all copouts. He took the mark willingly and so it’s affects are his responsibility and the fact that he was unclear about it’s affects is his own fault as well and does not absolve him of one iota of culpability.
[quote]Ugh…. am I supposed to feel badly for Dean now? Well sorry but I just don’t….. not even one teeny, tiny, little shred. He got himself into this mess by being dumb and now he’s concerned?[/quote]Thank you for saying this.[quote] Now he wants the mark off, now he’s realized it was a mistake? The black eyes weren’t his first clue? Geez. Dude, you DID THIS TO YOURSELF….it’s time to man up and find a way to fix it [/quote]Well its not so easy is it Dean?Maybe he will understand how Sam felt maybe not or maybe Dean will understand and the show will tell us this in one sentence in the last episode before Dean punches Sam out again.[quote]So, If there is another “I’m poison” speech coming, I’m turning off my television set. Can we have everybody being PRO-active for a change? [/quote]agree.[quote]I don’t care how scummy those people were, Dean had no right to unleash his Supernatural mojo on them.[/quote]Again I agree.[quote]And saying that it’s the MoC’s fault and that Dean wasn’t in control (insinuating that he gets a pass) is the mother of all copouts. He took the mark willingly and so it’s affects are his responsibility and the fact that he was unclear about it’s affects is his own fault as well and does not absolve him of one iota of culpability.[/quote]What Can I say other than wonderful comment.
Thanks anonymous…:D But why haven’t Dean and Sam had the “I’ve been there” conversation? I mean Dean’s suddenly got this Supernatural thing manipulating him and forcing him to do awful things against his will and there hasn’t even been one conversation about “Hey dude, I know how you feel….” or “Sam, is this what it was like for you all those years?” When the brothers don’t’ even discuss the elephant in the room with each other the show looses it’s credibility for me. There is simply no reason why they wouldn’t’ have had either Sam offer advice on how to deal with being a supernatural entities plaything or for Dean to at least ask once…. it makes them look like they don’t remember their own past.
Last I looked Dean died an honorable death rather than become something evil. He had no way of knowing Crowley was going to step in and nursemaid him into becoming a demon. He took on the MOC as a means to an end – to kill Abbadon, and hopefully Megatron. Not to be ‘the Big Bad Wolf in a world of little pigs’ I don’t think he believed or cared that he would come out of either of those encounters alive.
As far as what’s going on now – asking the Mark be removed by burning or.cutting it off? I think he’s in a state if denial – wishing but all the while knowing it isn’t going to be that easy.
As far as the massacre goes -Dean was on his way out of the house, trying to follow after Sam/Gas when he was cold cocked from behind. He hadn’t intended on going kill crazy. He was outnumbered and they were armed – they were just too stupid to heed his warning. Do I think it’s a big deal he killed all those humans? Nope, and I wouldn’t be if Sam had done it either. The only questionable one is Randy even tho I’m not all that torn up over him either. Unfortunately for him he became the MOC’s collateral victim. Scummy rape promoter that he was. Sam knew Dean wasn’t himself, I’m surprised he left Dean behind knowing what a ticking time bomb he has been. Sam and Cas’s hands are far from clean when it comes to murdering humans either or did that nurse Sam tortured/killed (drank her blood) or the demon when he was looking for Dean/Crowley not count or Godstiel and his rampage? There’s plenty of human blood to go around.
I sometimes think it might have been better had Sam not “cured” Dean. Like DDean told him, he liked the disease, let him go live his life he wouldn’t bother him. DDean was evil but as long as you left him alone or didn’t try to control him he really wasn’t much more than a hyped up Dean. He gave Sam an out, warned him to back off but still Sam poked the bear.
Curious to see how this all plays out because as far as the MOC goes I think what scares Dean the most is deep inside he really doesn’t want to give it up.
[quote] I sometimes think it might have been better had Sam not “cured” Dean. Like DDean told him, he liked the disease, let him go live his life he wouldn’t bother him. DDean was evil but as long as you left him alone or didn’t try to control him he really wasn’t much more than a hyped up Dean. He gave Sam an out, warned him to back off but still Sam poked the bear. [/quote]
Demon Dean beat up a bouncer because he was going to get kicked out of a strip club for harassing one of the girls. He might’ve killed Mindy if Lester hadn’t shown up. At the end of the day Dean had black eyes so I don’t understand people lamenting over demon Dean’s loss of freedom.
How did Sam “poke the bear”??
[quote]did that nurse Sam tortured/killed [/quote]If Randy was rape promoting scumbag ..she was a child-killing-demon possessed nurse.Dean was incapable of killing lilith while the angels said he could they were lying.Sam was literally the only one who wanted to kill lilith and capable of killing her …but more importantly it was Sam who she wanted to kill her but only when 65 seals had been broken.The manipulation of Dean was bad then but Sam was manipulated even worse.It’s like when it is Dean the characters are with negative traits but when it is about Sam there is no mention of Demon possession.Also Sam died an honorable death it was Dean who brought him back.
[quote]I wouldn’t be if Sam had done it either.[/quote]I will believe it when such instance comes.[quote] let him go live his life he wouldn’t bother him.[/quote]But he would bother others say some strippers or bouncers..I don’t find it good.They are people too.[quote]He gave Sam an out, warned him to back off but still Sam poked the bear. [/quote]Maybe Sam knows that anti-Sam fans ill lament till the apocalypse that Sam “RAN AWAY”.[quote] DDean was evil but as long as you left him alone[/quote]DDean would be left alone only if he moved to some remote location.[quote]they were just too stupid to heed his warning. [/quote]Because they knew Dean has the mark of cain?When did he tell them that.[quote] Sam and Cas’s hands are far from clean when it comes to murdering humans either or did that nurse Sam tortured/killed (drank her blood) or the demon when he was looking for Dean/Crowley not count or Godstiel and his rampage? There’s plenty of human blood to go around. [/quote]Sam did not blame Dean..but Dean had no problem blaming Sam.Now maybe Dean will understand how Sam felt and how supportive he should have been.Sam is wonderful.While he is unconfortable and does not agree with Dean’s murder rampage he still is there for Dean.
[quote]Last I looked Dean died an honorable death rather than become something evil. He had no way of knowing Crowley was going to step in and nursemaid him into becoming a demon. He took on the MOC as a means to an end – to kill Abbadon, and hopefully Megatron[/quote]
For me Dean’s death was in no way honorable. He took on the Mark from Cain himself (he didn’t even want to know how Cain had managed to stay alive for over 2000 years?) he did not heed Cain’s warnings, all to kill Gadreel… that was his original impetus, to kill Gadreel and then hopefully Metatron. Crowley convinced Dean that Abbadon had to die, when in fact she was the least of their problems. Well he failed at both his main goals, he did not kill either Gadreel or Metatron…. Abbadon was merely a side bonus and an easy kill clearly set up by Crowley to help activate the mark and blade. Then when when it came time to try to stay alive with Sam to continue the fight, Dean gave up, basically hastening him directly into his demon hood more quickly than if he’d fought to stay alive. His DEATH made him a demon.. not Crowley. So basically Dean gave up, went into Death (leaving a HUGE mess and a still alive Metatron behind to boot) only to hasten himself into what he was trying to avoid in the first place. I hated the whole MoC set up because Dean was required to be a complete and utter moron in order to get the mark to begin with and to then wallow in denial until it was too late. As Cheryl said, this was no case of an evil entity manipulating a 6 month old infant and imposing on him something beyond his control. Dean did this to himself even with his years of hunter’s experience behind him. It’s just plain dumb. Then in the final hour he punks out? Not honorable at all.. not for me anyway and he left Sam holding a huge, huge mess. And the hypocrisy of it too… “No, Sam you can’t die ever, even to the point that I’ll do something awful to you to make sure you stay alive at all costs, and even against your specific wishes, but when its comes to me, I get to die when ever I feel like it and I don’t care what you want or that you don’t want me to die or that I am leaving you holding the bag, I want to die, so I get to choose that even though I won’t let you do the same.” Not honorable and not fair.
[quote]when it comes to murdering humans either or did that nurse Sam tortured/killed (drank her blood) or the demon when he was looking for Dean/Crowley not count[/quote]
She wasn’t human and she wasn’t innocent. She was a demon… Sam and Dean kill demons all the time. No one gave Sam a pass on that if I recall, including Sam himself and Sam never gave himself a pass on anything he did while soulless either, he took responsibility and went about fixing it. So Dean doesn’t get a pass on this now, especially when he INVITED the repercussions on himself with full knowledge of what he was doing. I’d like to see Dean man up and stop denying and regretting and be proactive… DO something about it, fight for yourself, try and fix it, ask Sam for some advice… he’s been there even though it’s never been mentioned even once.
Well Dean seems to think it’s a big deal. The whole episode was set up to lull Sam into a false sense of security. Laughing at the Stooges, eating every thing in sight, reminiscing about John. Sam had no warning. He didn’t know about the nightmares. He didn’t know about Dean’s conversation with Cas. It was a normal case, a rescue. Dean didn’t show any signs at all of going off the rails. As far as leaving Demon Dean alone he had already killed a human. The MOC was created for one purpose and that was to raise an army of demons to destroy mankind. It is a bad thing not a good one. I’m sure like Sam and the demon blood Dean misses the power. But unlike Sam and the DB, Demon Dean isn’t trying to good with it. When he is under it’s influence he has no control. Hence the massacre. Dean is a good man, a righteous man. He would rather die than become “that thing again”.
[quote]Dean didn’t show any signs at all of going off the rails. [/quote]While Dean wanted Sam to tell him everything looks like he did not take his own advice.[quote] But unlike Sam and the DB, Demon Dean isn’t trying to good with it.[/quote]agree. I do hope someone can help them.Death maybe?He is older than god (by his own admission..) so maybe.Maybe Sam can put in a good word regarding Dean.[quote] Dean is a good man, a righteous man. He would rather die than become “that thing again”.[/quote]If only he had let Cain complete what he was telling..
I guess we interpreted the episode differently then. To me Dean was clearly off, slightly manic. Look at the concerned way Sam keeps watching him. This was just after the Shifter overkill where Sam voiced his concern about possible demon residue. Sams hunting instincts are on alert. I didn’t see Dean purposely fooling Sam into a false sense of security I see a desperate Dean trying to hold onto normalcy, hoping to maintain control.
Of course it was a big deal to Dean, they were human after all. And let’s not forget that he blames himself for everything anyway as a matter of course… What I’m seeing is that Show is leaving it questionable as to what Dean really remembers happened. It’s obvious it was a massacre but was he fully conscious of his actions while under the MOC’s spell? He will still blame himself regardless cause that’s Dean I just want Sammy and Gas to see in all fairness that it was self defense.
Yeah DDean did kill Lester to satisfy the MOC, but he let Mindy live. Maybe Lester would have lived if he’d kept his mouth shut and not tried to control him? (See bear – do not poke). DDean does seem to have a strange moral code for a demon. Keep in mind too tat DDean isn’t (why do I keep talking about him in present tense?) isnt required to do good with the MOC he just wants to go his own way and be left alone. He could’ve gone after Sammy but he never did, not until the blood cure and Sam trying to change him back against his will. (Once again – bear, don’t poke).
I don’t think he misses the power because it’s still with him – just not demon juice. But even Dean said he had a whole lot more inside him than just demon juice which kinda made me think the MOC is way more powerful that being a demon alone?
Sam never “poked the bear”. He was trying to help his brother, the real Dean. He didn’t owe anything to the black eyed demon.
[quote] Keep in mind too tat DDean isn’t (why do I keep talking about him in present tense?) isnt required to do good with the MOC he just wants to go his own way and be left alone. He could’ve gone after Sammy but he never did, not until the blood cure and Sam trying to change him back against his will. (Once again – bear, don’t poke). [/quote]
It’s not just about what demon Dean would or wouldn’t have done to Sam. Demon Dean hadn’t dropped the Blade and he hadn’t gone into seclusion like Cain had. Dean had been an immortal demon so there had been a very high possibility that he would have caused a world of hurt along the way. With a temper like that, there is no way that he would have been able to just mind his own business. And who knows what would have happened to Mindy if Lester hadn’t decided that he wanted to watch.
[quote] He will still blame himself regardless cause that’s Dean I just want Sammy and Gas to see in all fairness that it was self defense. [/quote]
The point is that someone like Randy hadn’t been killed in self-defense.
What I’d like to see out of this whole mess is that Dean cannot get rid of the MOC , that it is a part of him now and that he has to learn to control it. Use it for good as opposed to evil. How they could write that so it wasnt a super power Dean could use every monster they encountered? Make it so he has to use it sparingly – each time he takes a step toward the dark side? I dunno. I just don’t want to see some lame magical cure…
[quote] Make it so he has to use it sparingly [/quote]Actually they could have done it so that he would be invincible only with the blade..and killable but difficult to kill in absence of the blade.Now it looks like he is overpowering and immortal .
I want the blade and Mark gone and the sooner the better. A protagonist who has a superpower and can’t die kills all the dramatic tension. It will ruin the show; the brother’s won’t need to fight any more… they’ll jest let Dean handle it all. Nah… Lucifer rising again? That’s no real threat…. Dean will take care of that in 5 seconds and no need to worry, Dean can’t die. Nope, a thing like the MoC (or a Superman type) is that his very imperviousness makes it impossible to have any dramatic tension. There needs to be some vulnerability and some danger or else what’s the point? Even Superman had his cryptonite. I want Dean to be a regular old human again with all the frailties that effect all other humans. Impervious, unkillable all powerful Dean is not even remotely interesting to me.
You mean like spending practically two seasons saying how spending over 100 years in the cage is going to make Sam a raging lunatic, then have Cas come in and mojo it away after a couple of episodes of insomnia? That kind of magical cure?
I did not want to see lame cures for Sam let alone the absurdity that was the hand rub. Alot of people resented powers Sam mainly because they wanted it for Dean I am not really sure I would be happy with Dean having the MOC long term or it being treated differently from what it did to Cain. I do not really feel they have taken Dean dark like they have done Sam in the past , when writers constantly shine a light on Dean it is hard to be scared of the dark.
Looks like he’s overpowering and immortal but who knows at this point? They have left so much up to interpretation… which is interesting albeit frustrating!
Yes.The massacre should have shown on the screen whether he was super fast or he somehow froze them.There were slash marks on the victims so how ?that is a question I hope they answer.Maybe they will make it so that if Dean is killed now he will stay dead and undecomposing until he has the first blade put in his hands.i.e mark is a preservative and the blade a reanimator.
Not true. DDean would’ve been left alone if Sam hadn’t done everything he had to track him down. ‘Sammy – Let Me Go. Clearly DDean had no interest in ever seeing Sam again and I seriously doubt that any other Hunter out there is going to best a fully powered MOC First Blade toting Knight of Hell…
[quote] I seriously doubt that any other Hunter out there is going to best a fully powered MOC First Blade toting Knight of Hell…[/quote]Killing eviil beings is kind of their job description.All powerful ones included.
Maybe they were just outmatched? Frozen? Yeah. That look Dean has normally when he’s in regular kill mode is pretty scary. I can’t imagine being on the receiving end of all that MOC fury and bloodlust.
Besides Sam or Dean up against four human scumbags? No contest. Up against MOC fueled Dean? Instant bloodbath.
If it was an instant blood bath how does that make it self defense? Dean clearly had the upper hand, we all knew that even if the scumbags didn’t; that makes it a massacre not self defense. Against one guy your equal is possibly self defense. Against a person who has an advantage that is all powerful… not self defense.
Sorry my posts are so scatter shot. I’m using my cell pH and it is a. +
*itch!!!! See????
Sam had the ability to rid the nurse/demon of the demon but didn’t because he needed her blood and when he was soulless he killed the innocent woman bartender when she was held up as a shield and it was insinuated he did other questionable things, so this is not the first time the brothers have done questionable things under supernatural influence. Cas, as God, massacred tons of angels and humans. Team Free Will all have innocent blood on their hands, unfortunately. People who live in glass houses……
[quote] he killed the innocent woman bartender when she was held up as a shield and it was insinuated he did other questionable things[/quote]You can blame Castiel for it.
Pfix68. Thank you! Good to see I’m not alone! It can get pretty scary for a Dean girl!!! 😉
Speaking of SanN – I am not a Anti-Sam fan as you put it so if that was directed at me I just wanted you to know. I love the guy, I just love lean, mean Dean more… That being said – in response to something you posted earlier K cohldnty respond to because of issues with my cell or this site was having problems cause my posts wouldn’t submit… Sam walked into his situation with his eyes wide open too. She presented the choices to him and he picked the right one every time. Yes, he was manipulated but so was Dean – and by Cas no less, that had to hurt! Sam still had free will, same as Dean, so they are both culpable. And let’s face it – for two uber Hunters they both manage to do really stupid things sometimes! Just like a man… I bet they don’t even stop for directions if they are lost!!!!! And I didn’t understand what you meant about ‘Anti-Sam fans…Sam RAN AWAY. ?????
[quote] I am not a Anti-Sam fan as you put it so if that was directed at me I just wanted you to know.[/quote]No not you.That is why I specifically said anti sam fans.not Dean fans or cas fans or bobby fans..just fans who are anti Sam.[quote]Sam walked into his situation with his eyes wide open too. [/quote]No.Demon blood was introduced into him when he was younger without it he did not even have an option..One Demon blood was introduced he was one of the special or doomed (however you it) children..having a unique tool of demon blood.If sam had turned to demon blood as his first course of action i would have not liked it and it would also not be true to Sam.Only after Dean died and he was alone (Bobby was too distraught that his favourite died) and no one helped him that he went to deal making and when failed took up rubies offer.
But the fact stands that Demon blood was introduced without his consent.[quote]and by Cas no less[/quote]They were not friends then so I do not find anything odd with Cas’s betrayal then.I found Cas breaking sam’s wall lieng to dean worst than what he did in the pre s05 .[quote]’Anti-Sam fans…Sam RAN AWAY. ?????[/quote]sam as a character from the beginning of the series has been shown to require both space and time when angry with Dean..while Sam apologises to Dean the same thing he does not get from Dean and then he goes off to have a break (not permanent).The fandom has blamed Sam for running away for this.
So Sam choose to have demon blood forced on him at 6 months? That’s a pretty sophisticated decision for an infant to be making. I guess it had nothing to do with being sold out by his very own mother then? I guess it also had nothing to do with the fact that Sam was manipulated his entire life? His second grade teacher? His prom date? His best friend Brady? All designed to manipulate him without his knowledge for years and years? Sam never asked for a pass for anything he did while soulless and while under demon blood. I’d like to see Dean be as much of a stand up guy as Sam has been. Sam never got a pass, and never asked for one and never made excuses even though his supernatural issues were not of his own making. So far Dean as NOT done the same. He brought it on himself and now he’s whining. Just be a man dude! Say, “I made and mistake and I’m sorry. Will you help me fix it?” I’d be ever so appreciative of Dean if he’d do that one small thing. Then I could get behind him and route for him and cheer him on. But while he’s moaning and denying and spouting off crap like “I”m poison!” I have zero interesting in his struggle.
DDean didn’t have to drop the Blade OR go into seclusion like Cain did. He just wanted to be left alone. Speaking of manipulation Crowley set Dean up to kill someone who had it coming as opposed to a civilian in order to quench the MOC’s bloodlust. He knew the connection that kill had with Sam. What was Crowley’s motivation there? Crappy writing of convienence or a more sinister move on Crowley’s part? I never really stopped to think about that till now. My moneys on crappy writing…
[quote]Crowley set Dean up to kill someone [b]who had it coming[/b] as opposed to a civilian in order to quench the MOC’s bloodlust.[/quote]Who?[quote] He just wanted to be left alone[/quote]When we live in this world we are not left alone unless we live in a secluded space.[quote] My moneys on crappy writing…[/quote]Some season back I would have given them benefit of the doubt..Now? no
[quote] He just wanted to be left alone. [/quote]
Demon Dean picked fights. For instance he knocked out a bouncer who was just trying to remove him for being disruptive and later he kept beating another one even after the man was already unconscious. He didn’t have the discipline that Cain had. Demon Dean was going to keep on killing.
[quote] Speaking of manipulation Crowley set Dean up to kill someone who had it coming as opposed to a civilian in order to quench the MOC’s bloodlust. [/quote]
Mindy wasn’t someone who “had it coming”. She was divorcing Lester, she hadn’t committed any crimes.
Gah!!!! This is so unfair – you guys can type way faster and more efficiently than I can on my phone! Give a girl a chancee, will ya? San, discipline? You mean the instant discipline Cain had before killing thousands? No, Mindy didn’t have it coming but that’s how Crowley sold it. It was a CR deal she was going to die anyway, DDean needed the kill so there you have it. Who knows if Dean would’ve gone thru with it or not if her husband hadn’t shown at that time. Like I said DDean had some kind of moral code he seemed to follow unlike your normal run of the mill demon. It wouldn’t have even been an issue if Sam hadn’t crossed his moral code out of desperation in the first place.
As far as Dean being stuck with the MOC, they could come up with something that lessons the power and immortality if that’s even a feature since there has been no confirmation on that.
As far as Dean wanting to talk it o – when? Season 9 everyone acted like it was no big deal! Gas knew about it or at least heard of it but hardly showed any concern and Sam was too busy emotionally beating up on him to really notice how bad Dean was slipping. This year they dealt with the demon issue and then put the MOC on the back burner. Yeah there’s been some research finally thru the archives of the MOL but you would think Gas could find out more… Apparently his name is now Gastiel according to my phone… up until this upcoming episode he hasn’t shown the greatest concern and the jury is still out on that one cause who knows how the episode will play out.
I’m trying to respond to posts I can remember questions from. If I get the poster wrong I apologize. The more I try and scroll up to review the more likely I will lose what I just typed!!! I’m supposed to have WiFi by Friday so I won’t have to use my phone and burn up my data.
[quote] San, discipline? You mean the instant discipline Cain had before killing thousands? [/quote]
There’s a reason why Colette didn’t want Cain to kill even someone as evil as Abaddon. Yet Sam couldn’t get through to Dean. It doesn’t sound feasible that demon Dean could have just killed other demons and bad people for the rest of eternity considering the mark’s origins.
[quote] No, Mindy didn’t have it coming but that’s how Crowley sold it. It was a CR deal she was going to die anyway, DDean needed the kill so there you have it. [/quote]
Well, it was for demon Dean to decide whether she qualified as a civilian or not.
[quote] It wouldn’t have even been an issue if Sam hadn’t crossed his moral code out of desperation in the first place. [/quote]
Then Crowley would have just sent demon Dean to kill someone else who may or may not have had it coming. Ultimately, who demon Dean decided to kill wasn’t on Sam.
Sylvia – Exactly!!!
Hey Dean Girls! A little help would not be turned down ya know!!! I’m operating at a serious phone disadvantage not to mention waaaaay outnumbered. Okay give me a sec to catch up on the new position GS and re gird my loins…
I hear what you guys are saying about the demon blood being given to Sam as an infant and how that affected him but it still all comes down to free will. Manipulated or not, Sam made his choices even under the advisement of Bobby, Dean, Chuck and Pamela. But like Dean said, who knew killing Lillith would be a bad thing?
E – Dean warned them but he didn’t know he was going to Hulk out like that. It was self defense, they were all armed, he wasn’t. They had just hit him over the head with a bottle and then a kick in the head to top it off. It wasn’t clear if Dean was unconscious at the time that the MOC took over. Show left so much open to speculation you have to wonder if they will present his with a flashback or we are just supposed to be privy to the information and Sam and Gas operate on a strong assumption with Dean not being able to remember enough correctly to defend himself. If he even would.
He WAS armed, he was armed with the mark of cain, a weapon that beats guns, grenades, bombs and anything else those guys could have had. Dean knew this. It’s victim blaming. Dean wasn’t’ unconscious at the time the mark took over. The promo clearly shows that he knows exactly what he did and even Dean knows it was over the line. I am not sure why the fans can’t see that. It was WRONG with a capital W. Dean knew he couldn’t be beaten, he knew he would slaughter those people, it’s not on them because they didn’t know that they were int he room with a ticking time bomb.
Sam was warned by the Angels, Chuck and Pamela not to continue on the road he was taking with his demon blood skills. He didn’t have a choice about having the demon blood but he certainly made choices about using it and escalating its use. Dean chose not to find out the consequences of the mark. I don’t think he thought it was a permanent mark, at the time. His stupidity. Cas seemed the least aware of the negative consequences of what he was doing but knew he was on a bad path and probably was the most deceitful and the deadliest. They all suffered from the conceit of thinking they could control something they couldn’t. I personally felt bad for each one of them when it happened including Dean now.
You are right in that Sam made some really bad choices while under the influence of grief and guilt and anger, and although he was being manipulated by Ruby, he was smart enough to realize deep down that what he was doing was wrong. His guilt and need to assuage it was just stronger than his common sense at that point. But he was also alone, without Dean. By the time Dean got back, he’d already felt the power and knew what he could do. And Dean was in no shape to really help him, IMO. Fresh from hell and finding out his brother had changed from the person he’d left behind, he didn’t handle it very well. I think if Dean hadn’t been so caught up in his own problems, rightly so, and being influenced by angels, he’d have handled Sam differently, but instead, he acted like John and just tried to basically tell Sam what to do, and it just pushed Sam farther away. And of course, neither one knew that killing Lilith was the ultimate goal.
And you are right in that Dean made his choice, once again, out of grief and guilt. He probably knew deep down that what he was doing was stupid, but he didn’t care and he’s paying the price, just as Sam paid the price for his bad decisions. I guess the difference to me is that, Dean made his choice while Sam was right there and he chose to run off and make his mistake rather than stay and help Sam. Sam was angry and hurt and let him go and didn’t try to stop him, but Dean should have stayed and taken his lumps. Sam would have come around a lot sooner, IMO, if Dean had stayed and talked to him rather than running off and then telling Sam he’d do it again just to save Sam’s life.
The angels were trying to start the Apocalypse, so I have no problem with him ignoring them. When Sam said he felt like stopping the Apocalypse was all on him, Chuck said yeah it sure looked that way. Chuck didn’t exactly offer another way to stop Lilith, the strongest demon out there. (If Chuck really is God, that is particularly egregious, IMHO.) Pamela was the strongest voice against what Sam was doing, but neither Sam nor Dean take advice from non-hunters when they thing they are right.
Until after the detox and when Sam killed the nurse, the only person being hurt by his addiction was SAM. He was saving possessed people, something you are criticizing him for NOT doing with the nurse, while saying he was evil to save them the wrong way. Sam wasn’t killing people for his fix, he had a willing source that wasn’t being hurt by his use. Addiction is sad, and cruel and the behavior of some addicts hurts their loved ones. In Sam’s case Dean’s feelings were hurt that Sam was turning to Ruby for unknown reasons. BUT in the end the only victim of Sam’s addiction was Sam. Even the nurse died, not because Sam was addicted, but because everyone angels, Dean, and Bobby knew there was ONE seal left to fall and Lilith was the only one who could break it. Sam did something monstrous to try and STOP the Apocalypse. And, contrary to your statement, Sam did know that killing the nurse was wrong. He DID hesitate. I’d say it was unforgivable, but DSOTM made it clear that he still was accepted by heaven, so on a cosmic level, it wasn’t unforgivable.
It’s an interesting attitude that Cas’s actions are described as the deadliest, and Dean has killed more humans after he accepted the Mark than Sam did when under the influence of the demon blood while at the same time you still claim that both Cas and Dean are not so bad or are excusable, while Sam you condemn without any reservation.
I am in no way saying that Cas is excusable at all! In my opinion he has caused more damage to Sam and Dean then almost any other character in the show. I believe he brought Sam back soulless on purpose, he broke Sam’s wall, he used Dean’s sense of locality to friends to hide the fact that he was working with Crowley. Hell, he’s killed more people than anyone on the show! I also did NOT say Sam did worse things then Dean or Cas. What I said was Sam and Cas are living in glass houses and should be careful about judging Dean too harshly, especially Cas, who seemed very judgemental in the clip.
Imma bout to throw a phone out the window…
E – Really? The Nurse was neither human or innocent? Yes she was. You can’t hold the human responsible for the acts committed while possessing her body. You can say it however you want but Sam killing that girl and drinking her blood – especially once the poor girl was aware of what was going on – was nine kinds of wrong and Sam knew it. Did he ever say anything about her after the fact? Not that I’m aware of. She was a casualty of war, horrible act that had to be done but short of his being g annoyed by her terrified screaming while in the trunk I don’t think he gave her much more thought. That was a bad one on Sam that really hurt to watch.
Just a note, the nurse was still possessed by the demon. She didn’t leave the nurse, just claimed she was “going to sleep” and letting the nurse out. In all fairness, Dean was having six kinds of fit if Sam even considered exorcising a demon possessed person, instead of killing them with the knife, so even under Dean rules, the nurse was dead. I hate what Sam did, but I don’t think it’s that much far off from when the Dean tortured demon after demon to find Lisa and Ben, In Let It Bleed, in as opposed to exorcising them. In both cases, the final result was for “a greater good” and the host was collateral damage. Heck, the demons Demon!Dean killed were in the bodies of perfectly innocent people, but since he was only killing demons it gets excused. The show tends to ignore the possessed person, unless they want to make a point, but they are still in there and Sam and Dean have become more and more cold about that. Yet fans care about the nurse, and not about the others.
Agreed Percy’s.. it’s all part of the double standard; it’s alive and well I see. If Sam kills a demon (the baby killing right hand woman of Lilith herself no less) he’s flambéed by fans and Dean alike for years, regardless of the fact that they BOTH have killed demons since the start of the show. But when Dean kills demons AND humans now, they deserve it, they had it coming, they were scum so that gives Dean Almighty the right to be judge, jury and executioner. But when Sam does it, it’s a reprehensible act that gets brought up by fans and characters on the show alike for years never to be forgotten or forgiven. It’s a deflection… lets talk about how awful Sam was all those years ago so that we don’t have to discuss Dean in the here and now.
No one here is saying that what Sam did was right or excusable, if those who are unclear would like to go back and read the comments again they’d see that EVERYONE is saying the opposite… that Sam did some terrible things, he felt guilty for them, he asked for forgiveness from Dean and Bobby and Cas and he did NOT allow anyone to make excuses for him. He jumped into the cage specifically to atone for those exact things not that anyone remembers or seems to care about that part of it any more. What’s galling to me, now that the shoe is on the other foot so to speak, is how many fans are making the exact same excuses for Dean that they will not allow for Sam. The MoC absolves Dean, but the demon blood does not absolve Sam? Huh interesting logic there. Dean only killed Demons, the humans he killed deserved it…. .blah, blah, blah.. but Sam?! Oh, he killed demon who was in a nurse how awful! Even now they are bringing up all the terrible things Sam did as a means of showing how wrong he was way back then, years and years ago, despite the fact that it is Dean and what he’s doing RIGHT NOW that we should be discussing. That is a double standard and a hypocrisy that is quite nauseating at its core. IMO, Sam was wrong then and Dean is wrong now. Both brothers must be held to the same standard, but for some reason the standards for Dean seem to be different to some fans then those for Sam, and that irks me to no end.
Both brothers made choices that were dubious while the other brother was physically available but not emotionally available. Sam was not really addicted yet when Dean first returned from hell. I don’t think if Dean had talked to Sam on the bridge things would have gone any better. They didn’t get any better when they did talk. Dean caught on to soulless Sam much more quickly because he was both emotionally and physically present at the time. If you choose to see Dean as more culpable for his problem then Sam was for his, that is of course your choice. I just see it differently.
[quote] I don’t think if Dean had talked to Sam on the bridge things would have gone any better. They didn’t get any better when they did talk. [/quote]
I think they very well could’ve. When Sam and Dean attempted to have a second conversation, the mark of Cain seems to have already been influencing Dean.
[b] 9.10 Road Trip [/b]
[i] Dean: Come on, man. Can’t you see? I’m… I’m poison, Sam. People get close to me, they get killed…or worse. You know, I tell myself that I-I — I help more people than I hurt. And I tell myself that I’m — I’m doing it all for the right reasons, and I — I believe that. But I can’t — I won’t… Drag anybody through the muck with me. Not anymore. [/i]
vs.
[b] 9.13 The Purge [/b]
[i] Dean: You know, Sam, I saved your hide back there. And I saved your hide at that church… And the hospital. I may not think things all the way through. Okay? But what I do, I do because it’s the right thing. I’d do it again. [/i]
Prix68 – I think I’m in love with you!!!
Ah….but Dean did remember didn’t he. It wasn’t that he doesn’t remember, he couldn’t control it. That was why he was so devastated. He didn’t warn Sam about his nightmares, about his talk with Cas. And even when he told Cas to kill him if he ever went back to being that thing he didn’t tell Cas about the nightmares either. Sam begged Dean to tell if anything went sideways “even an inch”. Dean didn’t. Those guys didn’t stand a chance against a MOC powered supernatural creature that Dean is becoming again. Dean is going out of control, he’s freaked about it and he wants the Mark gone or to be killed.
And by the way I am a brother fan. I love Dean and it breaks my heart that he has done this to himself. He never wanted this and now he needs Sam and Cas to help him deal with it.
Cheryl, in trying to reply to you I actually favored your post twice! Lol. I’m not sure what you mean by Dean remembers. I think Sam was aware that he was addicted to demon blood as well and begun to realize he was on a slippery slope with Ruby. Neither Sam nor Dean shares with the other when they feel they are in over their heads. Trials are another example. Nor did Cas for that matter. Sam thought he could controll his problem, Cas thought he could control his problem and Dean has done the same. My point is that Dean is no worse or more culpable then Sam or Cas when they were in their predicament. All desperately needing help but too proud or ashamed or both to ask for it from the others.
You are right in that they all tend to try and hide weakness from each other and it comes back to bite them. But in reply to your earlier statement, I don’t think it would have been all hearts and puppies if they had talked on the bridge, but I do think if Dean had stayed, besides not getting the MOC, Sam would have been more open to him. As Percyowner said, he chose to go off and do his “I’m poison” act and it just exacerbated the situation, making it all about him, which in turn, made Sam even more hurt and angry, and less likely to be sympathetic. I mean, Dean knew before he even let Gadreel in that Sam would be upset with him, and yet, when Sam actually did get upset with him, he bolted. But it’s water under the bridge now and they all have to deal with the cards on the table.
I don’t think Sam had anything to do with Dean’s accepting the MOC. He wanted to kill Abbadon and he saw it as a means to an end. Dean always seems to be reckless about future consequences. He solves the problem at hand and worries about the next one when it shows up. No sense of future consequences. I doubt Sam could have stopped him if he wanted to.
I actually meant that if Dean had stayed instead of leaving, the whole MOC storyline would have been moot, not that Sam had anything to do with it. But you are right about Dean. He’s a “shoot first, ask questions later” kind of guy. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. 🙂
He’s needed Sam and Gas all along – he needed them last season. They all acted like he had nothing more than the common cold. Crowley showed more concern than they did – albeit for his own nefarious reasons… Deans being fully aware of what went down? I don’t think so – he was out of it in a fugue state after the fact. OObviously he knows there was a massacre since he was knee deep in it. When the. MOC bloodlust takes over he really isn’t all there as we saw when he was demolishing Abaddons corpse and when Sammy had to talk him down at Magnus’s lair…so once it started I don’t think he is aware of the particulars… “Let’s not argue about who killed who…”. Sorry just a line from Monty Python thatpopped into my head while I was typing this…
I guess I came here a little too late but I have to say I’m soooo agree with you here AlyCat22!!!last season Sam and Cas only show a little bit of concern like it was nothing unusual practically until the last episode(well in Sam’s case an episode before the last one!)but this season Sam was alonside Dean all the way and I really like it to be continued that way,so Sammy can do sth so Dean wouldn’t feel so guilty and without hope…
and yes,I think Dean is not completely aware of what he’s doing under the influence of the Mark,just look at the lost expression in his eyes in Randy’s house when Sam and Cas arrived.
And in season nine, Cas was clear that violating Sam’s consent was fine, if only Dean had picked the right angel. Dean was totally disinterested in the fact that Sam killed Kevin and his only response was, well forget about you, it’s all on me, don’t bother me about it. None of them is great emotional support. Getting upset ONLY when Dean is affected makes no sense to me.
Cheryl – What show have you been watching? They never talk when they should!!! In this respect ALL of them are idiots!!!!!! 🙂
Thanks Taraneh! Any help or support this Dean girl vdts is much appreciated. KT gets kinda tough here for a Dean supporter! But I’m enjoying the discussions!
PercysO – I had my most elegant, thoughtful and deep meaning post all typed hl and ready to go and then my phone died. AAfter I picked it up from the lawn outside I made a second attempt – so don’t blame me for the following crap… kidding!!! I hate it when that happens tho, or the site won’t accept when you hit the Submit button… I think what bothered people so much about the nurse and why it stands out in our memories still is how cold Sam was about it. The fact that she was conscious and aware of what was going on? Sam even said that hewas going to drink her dry while she looked on. It used to be “Saving leople, bunting…” . Now its “Saving people, hunting…unless of course you are a human housing a demon – sucks to be you – the family business”. I always thought it was just lazy writing to be honest. Oh, the demon will RU. to tell Crowley!!! Bank!
Sorry. Stupid phone… to continue my response to PercysO.
Anyway you cut it what Dean did, torturing and killing those demons in order to find Lisa and Ben was brutal – no two ways. More casualties of war… it never doesn’t bother me no matter who is doing the killing. I wonder if anyone has ever compiled the stats of how many innocents ridden by demons Sam and Dean have offed? New drinking game!!!!!
Sharon – agreed. The whole Lucifer in Same mind storyline could have, hell – should have been much better. Same thing with the Leviathans and Purgatory. Storyline gold just more or less wasted. And while I understand where and why of first half of Season. 8, I will never get the casting of Amelia and why they drug it out like they did. I always feel sorry for Elaine B. That’s one charactewhose presence will ever be requested at Cons. Did they intentionally cast an actress that had zero chemistry with Jared? And I’m all for Dark Dean – the darker the better. Let Jensen really rip it up and let loose like we want to see!!! They have promised so many times but only half way deliver.
I want the MOC to stay. Its a cool idea and interesting storyline. They can tone it down in some way. You all keep crying that Dean took on the MOC and that you don’t feel sorry for him. I’ve always thought there should be some kind of consequence Dean will have to learn to live with here on out, that will enable him to grow as a character. No magical end of season hand wave. Make it his burden he has to contend with for awhile. I’m really curious how they bring Cole back info the story too.
It is frustrating that we can’t reply to each other. Yes Dean and Sam don’t talk to each other. Unfortunately that is how they end up where they do. And Prix way up there what I meant is that Dean knows exactly what he did in that room. He couldn’t control what he did. He didn’t black out. That is why in this clip he said he went too far. And Alycat I don’t think the fans, writers etc. want Dean Winchester to cross a line that he can’t recover from much like they did with Sam. EK took Sam’s character too far and for many he has never recovered from that. What Dean has done so far is pretty bad and he may end up doing worse we will have to wait and see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-ERhLIskYo extended promo that I am sure will get posted soon…
Cheryl – I don’t mean that he would have to live with the consequences of something that occurred – I meant that he would have to learn to live with the MOC consequences whatever they might be. A burden and responsibility – maybe the struggle to keep control of the Mark? J dunnk. Not a writer – that’s why they get paid the big bucks (tbl zkmd really aren’t and shouldn’t…). As far as taking Dean too dark I think Jensen would know where to draw that line. We got a taste of the darkness so far – I don’t think with the exception of the massacre that he’s really gone close to where they can take him. Sam isn’t irredeemable in my eyes for his actjons. He’s human, he makes mistakes. They are both under such unrelenting pressure, they are bound to screw up or go a little (or in Deans case, a lot) nuts now and again. But that’s why we love them so, yeah?
Sylvia – just remember Crowley orchastrated that whole MOC dance. Now either Crowley had planned it all along and was waiting for an klportune time to take advantage of Dean or it all just fell the way he wanted right into his lap. I gjess what I’m trying to say is that fight or no fight in that bridge, Crowley was going to do his damndest to get the First Blade/MOC together with Dean. I hate this phone. I can spell, really. It just takes forever to go back and correct my typos orauto corrects or spacing…
Sylvia – just remember Crowley orchastrated that whole MOC dance. Now either Crowley had planned it all along and was waiting for an klportune time to take advantage of Dean or it all just fell the way he wanted right into his lap. I gjess what I’m trying to say is that fight or no fight in that bridge, Crowley was going to do his damndest to get the First Blade/MOC together with Dean. I hate this phone. I can spell, really. It just takes forever to go back and correct my typos orauto corrects or spacing…
Believe or not I can decipher your phone code 🙂
Its like chicken scratches without the chicken, the scratches or the dirt! 🙂
Cheryl. Thanks for posting the extended. My phones acting up so could you tell me what happens? I got as far as where Gas was talking about not becoming a monster and Dean holding an oar to a girls throat. I also briefly heard Dean say something to Sam while sitting at a table in the Lair. Boo! My phone is lucky its not lying in pieces at my feet…
Honestly everything was coming at you at breakneck speed. I will have to go to tumblr and see if it is broken down into gifs I can understand. Charlie is in the clip so I don’t think it is just for the next episode alone. She isn’t in this one is she?
The only gif I found so far https://33.media.tumblr.com/623e7a6bff0d86cbeec12e542f301ada/tumblr_ni8bcilkmq1sr0pqfo1_500.gif
Awwwwhhh he looks so sad. So looks like he was aware of what he was doing just powerless to control it. TheMarks hold on him is getting a lot stronger. Maybe when Megatron says that Deans gone nuclear, that is what he is referring to – either the kill fest itself or the moment he finally lost control? Interesting. That trailer had Charlie in it. She’s not listed in 10/10 so maybe its a combination of EPs? That or Charlie appears for a brief moment at the end?
Why did K cringe at the way she said Mark of Cain? It’s not like she would know anything important about it that even the boys haven’t been able to dredge up, is it? Please no. If they have to listen to CharlieSue vomiting up all her wisdom on the subject then I’m going to be making a run for the porcelain convenience myself! 😉