Second Sneak Peek for Supernatural 10.01
Our lucky day, we have another sneak peek for episode 10.01
http://youtu.be/W8fQtLwH85c
All Demon!Dean and Crowley. What do you think?
Our lucky day, we have another sneak peek for episode 10.01
http://youtu.be/W8fQtLwH85c
All Demon!Dean and Crowley. What do you think?
Here it is! the synopsis for the last episode of Supernatural. Press Release βSupernatural β The Long Road Homeβ β 8PM ET/PT November 19 A CELEBRATORY EPISODE β Get ready for the finale with cast interviews from Jared Padalecki, Jensen Ackles, Misha Collins, and Alexander Calvert, with creator Eric Kripke, executive producers Robert Singer…
Here's a new interview from Misha Collins from last night's CBS/CW party at the TCA's from Danielle Turchiano. He teases a bit about the upcoming season 8, but really doesn't reveal a lot, especially when we know from this Comic-Con interview a few weeks ago that Castiel would be back in episode two in flashback form. He…
We have our first sneak peek for Supernatural season 13 episode 16. Eric Kripke gave his reaction to this episode Supernatural Creator on ‘Amazing’ Scooby-Doo Crossover: ‘I’m Starstruck’ And away we go! Give us your thoughts in the comments or in the discussion thread for episode 16. Share on FacebookTweetFollow usSave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK7g318SP_g Share on FacebookTweetFollow usSave
Kevan Kase (@HeadKase_1) tweeted a picture of himself and the boys with the caption, Γ’β¬ΕJust wrapped up another great day on set roughing up the boys and having a few laughs. Share on FacebookTweetFollow usSave
We have the synopsis for the 300th episode of Supernatural! SUPERNATURAL βLebanonββ (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV) JEFFREY DEAN MORGAN RETURNS FOR THE 300TH EPISODE β Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) look to occult lore for a solution to their latest problem, but instead of a resolution, they find much…
Well I may be in the minority here (maybe not) shirtless Dean aside I thought that clip was awful. The dialog was terrible (Jeremy Carver…really?), the acting was terrible, the scene itself was terrible and this is what we gave up “Bitch/Jerk” for? A buddy comedy? DD is just a jerk? Wow….:o
I have found that, for the most part, the worse the sneak peek clip, the better the episode and vice versa, the better the sneak peek, the worse the episode, so here’s hoping….fingers crossed.
Also, the bitch jerk exchange,to me, suggests an emotional immaturity in Crowley and DD’s relationship since Sam and Dean have moved beyond sort of that exchange years ago. I also think Carver is trying to create a discomfort in the fandom with this suggestion of bonding between Crowley and Dean but it’s really a reminder that DD is NOT Dean. He’s someone else altogether. Just my opinion- not meant to offend anyone who is fond of the bitch jerk exchanges. I just see it as a sign of Sam and Dean’s more careless, more casual, more flip relationship from earlier seasons. Lots of water had gone under the bridge since then and the boys talk to each other differently now as a result. This light-hearted fondness has been replaced by something deeper and more meaningful forged by their shared experiences. Sharing a foxhole and all that…watch the relationships of the hobbits at the beginning of The Fellowship versus the end of The Return of the King. I see the same thing. But, again, just my opinion.
i think I agree. I think they went light on the clip more as a smoke screen kind of thing. I don’t think it’s going to be dean simply having sex with strangers and then moving on. Jensen had said in a few interviews that dean has been killing someone like every day. I have hopes that dean will be darker than what we’ve seen and this is going to be more than a demonic buddy movie:D. on the bright side, sam will be plenty dark and I’m kind of more excited for that….we haven’t seen that sam in a long time…;) as for the bitch jerk thing….at first I was worried it would piss people off….we haven’t had a bitch/jerk moment in years and when we get one it’s between Crowley and dean? I thought oh crap…here it comes…but the way I look at it….when sam and dean used to do that, they were being playful. it was teasing ea. other and part of their brother relationship that most likely started at a young age. ….seems to me that the use of bitch/jerk in this instance was quite the opposite of that. they were insulting ea. other. it wasn’t playful . it wasn’t them being endearing….in fact the exchange was the total opposite of what it’s always meant….and I think that was the point. so it doesn’t bother me in the least that they used it.
I think Crowley is in for a rude awakening with dean anyway… the problem is that Crowley is a demon who happens to be addicted to humanity via human blood. we saw in sacrifice what Crowley knows he’s lacking…a friend…someone to love.. demons don’t love. they don’t care about love…before getting jacked up with sam’s blood, Crowley could give two sh**s about anything…. but now…now he’s a demon who craves companionship…problem is dean is a demon without a hint of humanity, so whatever Crowley hoped to gain with dean, he aint ever gonna get. π
I guess I don’t see the purpose of releasing a clip that, to me anyway, isn’t a very well acted or written scene. I know it is just a clip and we don’t know the context but, again for me, I just thought it was awful. The B/J moment didn’t really bother me as much as the whole scene. Dean really needed to be evil not just a more obnoxious Dean. So far this is the only clip I’ve seen that has been a sour note. I am not going to let it bother me until I see the finished product. I was only commenting on this particular clip.
Perhaps that’s the whole point, cheryl42. I mean whenever I see DD I always chant in my mind “Not Dean, Not Dean, Not Dean…” and I always wait for his eyes to go black. It’s not dean. It’s another character that really looks like Dean but not him. So, what if DD’s dialogue is awful? May he is a kind of an awful, obnoxious, asshole Demon, a complete jerk. And That’s how Jensen wants to play DD. Bringing all of Real Dean’s bad characteristics (jerk, insensitive, obnoxious, asshole, etc etc) to the fullest and burying the Real Dean’s characteristic deep down.
If Dean become the next Cain, all brooding, all dark, I-kill-my-brother-to-save-him-from-the-Devil-angst, what’s the different between DD and Cain then? I don’t think Jensen want to copy other character’s traits in creating Demon Dean.
Just my thought. You don’t have to agree, of course. π
I understand what you are saying but someone said this either here or I read it somewhere else, we need to be afraid for Dean and afraid for the people he might come in contact with. Otherwise what is the point of Dean turning into a demon. Just so he can carouse around with Crowley. Where is the tension, the angst. Why should we care if he is saved or not. We should be feeling awful for Dean that he has turned into the very thing he would never want to be. As he said to Sam as he lay dying in the warehouse he would rather die than turn into something he doesn’t want to be. So far Dean is having a hell of a good time. What is there to save him from. The only person he has menaced so far in the clips we’ve seen is Sam. I was using Cain as an example of what becoming a Knight of Hell should mean. He should be menacing to mankind not just to a guy in a bar here and there or Sam when he is captured. I was really looking forward to S10 but these last few DD clips aren’t very encouraging for his storyline. And we have gotten so little of Sam’s story I really have no idea what he is doing other than torturing and being tortured. π
It depends on how cynical I’m feeling. If I’m not cynical, then they are hiding the worst of Dean’s behavior so that people are surprised by how far Dean will go or because they don’t want fans turned off by how far Dean goes by viewing the previews. If I’m being very cynical, they are going to use this to show that Sam is once again wrong. When Sam didn’t want to be saved, it was because he was being selfish and didn’t understand how bad Dean felt when he was dying. Now, when Sam saves Dean from a fate Dean swore he didn’t want, Sam will not only be a hypocrite for trying to save Dean when Dean tells him he doesn’t want saved, but even worse, Dean is such a good soul that he doesn’t NEED to be saved from being demonic because he never does anything bad enough to warrant being saved. All he did was be himself without the CRUSHING guilt and responsibility that normal Dean has. Sam will take carefree, happy Dean and make him miserable again because he doesn’t understand that Dean is the only GOOD demon in the world. “If you had only TRUSTED me Sam, I wouldn’t be so unhappy now!”.
I’ve been burnt by the show these last 2 seasons. The fact that all of Dean’s pain is dealt with overtly and constantly, while Sam’s is (at best) shown so subtly and downplayed has me worried as to how their respective points of view will be handled this season. In season eight, I could accept Sam believed Dean was dead and in heaven, but I wanted to see how Sam came to that conclusion and decided to live without Dean believing Dean was at peace and what I got was Sam telling Amelia’s father that he lost his brother and his world imploded. At the same time Dean repeated how betrayed he was by Sam, how Sam had deceived him from the moment he got into Dean’s ride, how HURT Dean was by Sam, how Benny was more reliable an ally and more of a brother than Sam. Last season, Dean’s violation of Sam was pretty obvious. The second Sam found out about it, the emotional beat went to how BAD Dean felt because Sam didn’t forgive him instantaneously (Dean got the MOC the episode after Sam found out about Gadreel and hadn’t had time to react period). We got to see big, bad Sam actually expressing that Dean renting out Sam’s body to any passing angel left Sam unable to trust Dean and how much that devastated DEAN that Sam didn’t hop to it and just trust Dean unconditionally. We saw that so much that people are still saying Dean took the Mark because of what Sam said in The Purge, 2 episodes AFTER he got the Mark. Then Sam downgraded being possessed against his will to being a roommate situation that went bad at the end. We got one line about Sam having nightmares about killing Kevin. The rest was all about how Dean was feeling about Sam killing Kevin and Sam not coddling Dean. So, right now, I’m worried we are going to get a lot of Dean not doing anything bad, AND then being forgiven because he was a demon and couldn’t help it, even though he became a demon because of his own actions. I’m also afraid we are going to get a lot of Sam is evil to his core and the real monster because Dean and Cas say so.
Quoting Percysowner ” I’m also afraid we are going to get a lot of Sam is evil to his core and the real monster because Dean and Cas say so.” That won’t happen because they don’t think that and never will. I understand some of your concerns but that one is just a step too far I think. In spite of the times things were said in anger, Dean does not think Sam is evil or a monster. Cas has come to love and respect Sam. That much I know,
First, I want to believe that Cas thinks of Sam as a friend, but there has simply been too little support from Cas for me to totally buy it. Yes, Cas said he once would have killed Sam to get Gadreel’s grace, but now he thinks that Sam doesn’t deserve to be murdered for that purpose. But Cas still defended Dean’s tricking Sam into possession by telling Dean he wasn’t wrong to do that, he only was “too trusting” of the wrong angel. That doesn’t show a ton of support for Sam as an individual. I think Cas and Sam should have a lot in common and Cas should consider Sam a friend, but what I have seen is that Cas’s primary loyalty is to Dean. Sam may come next, but for the most part, Cas doesn’t act with care toward Sam, while he does with Dean.
As for Dean not thinking Sam isn’t a monster, whether he really thinks it or not, he has never backed down on his statements that Sam the only reason he doesn’t kill Sam is because he knows him and Sam is his brother (Metamorphosis), that Sam was disgusting because he used his powers to save 2,000 people in It’s the Great Pumpkin Sam Winchester, that Sam deserved to die alone if he ever become readdicted to demon blood (WTLB and My Bloody Valentine both involved Dean leaving Sam ALONE in the panic room with no food, water, toilet or comfort for a detox that might kill him. In fact, Dean’s reaction was that it was too hard for DEAN to cope with, so leave Sam totally alone the same thing he did after he stuck needles into Sam’s head to try and get Gadreel out). It doesn’t change the fact that as soon as Dean found out Gadreel had fooled DEAN about the possession, he was willing to kill Sam to get rid of Gadreel. The big issue is that we have 2 characters, in story, telling Sam he is a monster the female demon (or human witch) and Dean as a demon. You may say demons lie, but let’s be honest, fandom accepts every word demons or other untrustworthy supernatural beings say as true IF IT PAINTS SAM IN A BAD LIGHT. Demons tell Tracy Sam and Sam alone started the Apocalypse, Dean conveniently forgets the part the angels and Dean himself played in the Apocalypse and the audience is given NO counter argument. Gadreel tells Dean that Sam doesn’t love him, fandom says Hey! Gadreel, the guy who tricked Sam into saying yes, lied about who he was, and killed Kevin couldn’t POSSIBLY be lying to get Dean upset, Sam must not love Dean. The tight Dean POV for the series has made Dean’s pronouncements, no matter how off I may think they are, gospel. So Dean as a demon saying Sam is a worse monster than Dean is, will be show and fan canon. Cas calling Sam an abomination in 99 Problems, makes Sam an abomination for the rest of the series according to fandom. Dean saying Sam abandoned him in Purgatory when Sam thought Dean was dead and in heaven, makes Sam someone who knew Dean was alive in Purgatory and who left him there to rot. Whatever Dean actually believes, he never (or rarely ever) takes back the negative assessment of Sam and THAT becomes canon. So, yes, Dean saying Sam is a monster will stick, until the exceedingly unlikely event, that Dean say he’s wrong.
I am sorry. I will really try to put this nicely. I know you are trying to defend Sam but bashing Dean at the same time is not good.
Also you are actually saying “fandom” meaning also you and generalizing that we dislike/blame/hate Sam because we are stupid or can’t think for ourselves. I actually know many many people that doesn’t blame Sam that like Dean, Cas, show, the writers etc.
I think in one con where the writers were and the fan asked “Why did you screw up season 9” was put like all the viewers think that and it was not her/his opinion. My point is: Don’t ever say what people are thinking or not because you don’t know it and don’t say we all think the same way as we don’t. This point comes it that I actually like all the characters (mostly) and don’t care who of the writers have written and what. All I see that some are giving the same hard time to the cast, characters, writers, the show what Kripke got and made him do something else. Because if that is true it would be very very sad and wrong.
This is also the mark that if it is so bad what Kripke got and he is loved so much it is not an excuse to give that to the rest of I wrote above. It is the same thing even if it is not Kripke btw. And this is not against him btw this is against the treatment these working people get and I get annoyed for them. I am annoyed that some of the writers are scared to come to twitter because of this kind of stuff. I am annoyed the treatment Kripke got and it makes me annoyed to enjoy to post on some sites too or read what their opinion is.
It is just not nice thing to do and I am thinking a lot just to watch the whole season under a rock and be happy and enjoy it. Because on my behalf too if I were any of the celebrities I wouldn’t join twitter. Hell, I would ban internet all together and be in my happy place.
So what can I write about season 10? Exited to see Sam going after Dean to get him back. I love to see Dean’s take on DD even if it is not what I thought it would be. I love Mark Sheppard to be a regular. Hannah coming back is great and the sheriffs. But most of all I like that the cast, the writers + everyone involved making Supernatural seem to have still as fun as day one.
I really needed to write this as it has been bothering me. Don’t want to lay blame on anyone rather than to say I am bothered by just something that doesn’t seem top be as big of a deal to others.
Anyway, in four days I will on my behalf see how the season will go and what I will do.
– Lilah
[quote]As he said to Sam as he lay dying in the warehouse he would rather die than turn into something he doesn’t want to be. So far Dean is having a hell of a good time. What is there to save him from. [/quote]
Okay, I get what you mean. But this is my understanding of the POV of the characters. Let’s just say DemonDean is not Dean it’s another character. Not Dean
The real Dean may chose death rather than become a demon. Demon Dean thinks differently. But the repercussions will be severe, or I hope it will be severe because from what I understand of Dean’s character, he harbors guilt and always thinks the lowest of himself. He thinks himself a grunt (S8), a killer (S6), a torturer (S4).
So, I don’t really care about Demon Dean. If he’s gonna be all sadistic evil ala Alastair or dark and brooding ala Cain, or a real self serving demon who doesn’t care for anyone but his own pleasure, fine by me. Demon dean doesn’t really have any agenda, right? What’s his purpose?
Other Demon has jobs (sort of) the crossroads demons are salesmen, there are the recruiter demons like in S7, there are demon lackeys like Crowley’s minions, There are all have task somehow (other than snooki maybe) because Hell is waay more organized than Heaven. What is Dean’s job? It seems Demondean doesn’t have a purpose in his life other than having fun, killing, have sex, destroying wall mart, having a brawl at bars apparently singing too.
Then, Sam Winchester comes and what Demon worth their sulfur NOT toying with him. So, I think DemonDean then decided to play with Sam, yanking his chain, taunting him, hurting him. Isn’t that what demons usually did when they met with the Winchester?
What I really wait is what will happen when Dean is cured? How will he cope? because he must have remembered everything that he did when he was a Demon. :):):):):) Interesting I’ll say
I agree kaj.
soulless sam didn’t want to be saved either. he said he was a better hunter. as he learned what having a soul meant, more and more he didn’t want it back. soulless sam killed innocents, albeit not for the simple pleasure but more as collateral damage. everything that soulless sam did, was the opposite of what soulful sam would do. soulless sam didn’t feel, he didn’t care, he didn’t love…he had no understanding of any of it and he was ok with it….but sam with a soul, well he does feel, he does love, he does care…..soulless sam was a separate entity from soulful sam, but dean knew that despite what soulless sam had said…he knew that sam wouldn’t want to be that kind of “monster” for lack of a better term…willing to kill bobby, turn dean into a vampire, kill an innocent girl just so that she couldn’t be used as a hostage…sam’s words to dean when he got his soul back…..thank you. his whole life sam feared himself to be a monster, a freak….and then he was…the very thing he never wanted to be and when he got his soul back, the guilt, the pain of all he’d done…lay heavy on him…but it was better to be a human with those feelings, to care about others, to love and remember who he loves both past and present than to have been what he was, something he never wanted to be….doesn’t the fact that he was so hurt by angel possession corroborate how strongly sam feels about wanting and needing to be able to have control of his own person? if anyone knows what it’s like to have that taken wouldn’t it be sam? wouldn’t sam not want the same thing for his brother….no matter what kind of demon dean turns out to be?
dean’s belief his entire life is that he’s no good. kaj is right. nobody hates dean Winchester more than he does. his fear has always been that he’s a killer at heart, someone you don’t want at your dinner table. he has a very low opinion of himself…isn’t that why everyone he loves leaves him? not that they were taken from him…but they left him…kaj is correct…dean takes responsibility for whatever goes wrong and very rarely takes credit for all that he’s done right. he blames himself for stuff that he isn’t responsible for because of his low self esteem. isn’t that why hunting is so important to him? saving people, most especially sam….because being a hunter gives dean esteem. with all that he feels, saving people is what makes him good…so he isn’t hopeless, there’s good in him. and sam….sam helps him believe in the good in him just as much as hunting does. so for dean to lose himself entirely to this false belief that he was always basically a “monster himself”…to succumb to the one thing he feared most….which by the way ironically is sam’s same fear….that in and of itself is devastating and the worst thing that could possibly happen to dean…
of course, as with soulless sam, demon dean will be it’s own separate entity. it will be the opposite of dean Winchester….and isn’t that the point….to be the very opposite of what dean was…which is human. to not love, to not care, to kill for the sheer sake of it…to have not an ounce of humanity….the one thing that was so important to dean, both for him and sam both. we keep ea. other human. I won’t let my brother turn into a monster….I guess I found my line…all of dean’s words. all of his fears. of course demon dean is going to enjoy himself….didn’t the demons from magnificent 7 confess that all they wanted to do was play…they had no agenda…they just wanted to be…and because of what they wanted to be innocents died. I expected to see demon dean enjoy his role because demon dean is the very antithesis of dean. just as soulless sam was the antithesis of sam. demon dean won’t have the guilt. he won’t have self hatred. he won’t love. he won’t care. but even though dean had a low opinion of himself, wasn’t the fact that he loved and cared and was loved and had family…wasn’t that what kept him going…what made him strong…what overcame his self doubts.. now he’s nothing more than a shell of himself.
that is what dean didn’t want…that’s why he told sam it was better that he be dead. that’s why he told sam he was proud of us….because when all was said and done…the bad guys never beat the Winchesters because they always loved ea. other and stood by ea. other….and they always kept ea. other human, the best of who they were, especially when they didn’t believe that of themselves.
so regardless of what kind of dean demon is…..the very fact that he is one is what is so devastating. the loss of his humanity….becoming the one thing he always feared to be….just one death by demon dean’s hands will be enough for dean to harbor guilt….but i’m sure, since Jensen told us, dean will be killing more than one. when dean is saved, he will understand what it means to not have control of one’s self. to be something he’s not, to do things he wouldn’t do. he’ll come to understand sam’s pov, but he’ll come to understand himself as well I think….amyh asked how dean becoming a demon could help dean fight his inner demon….well the way I see it, for dean to essentially in fact become the very thing he feared himself to be….and him realizing he was never that and what he had become is so much worse that he could’ve imagined….well then dean might very well finally see himself as a good person. he might hate himself a little less. he will understand that under all that guilt and self loathing, he was a human being with a good heart, who for the most part has done good things….yes he’s made mistakes, but what it boils down to is that as flawed as he might be, he’s still a person he could be proud of….
so the way I see it…..it doesn’t matter how diabolical demon dean is….i’d like to see him go all out just because I think it would make for awesome tv….but in all honesty, even if dean was the misfit of demons and didnt’ kill enough or wasn’t menacing enough….the fact that he has become the very thing he fought against his whole life is the real tragedy here. losing his humanity…not being a human being….that’s dean’s worst fear come true….that alone is enough for dean to be thankful to sam once he’s saved. π
i’m sure we’ll get more menace from dean then we’ve had the privilege to see…I mean if he’s even too much for Crowley that Crowley actually resorts to going to cas….that alone tells me there’s more to demon dean than the fun he’s having right now.
Wow, nappi815 !!! You’ve said it better than I did. :):):):)
I remember Jensen said that DeamonDean is a very light Dean. We all expect him to go darker but instead from the actor’s POV, it’s lighter. On another note, I wonder what the other demons do when they are off screen??? If all demons go on killing spree won’t their actions will alert the human’s authority and finally will alert them of their existence, in which I believe Crowley doesn’t want. So the King must have told his minions to do the evil things in subtle. And of course being an organized freaks that he is, he must have tasks for his demon minions so they don’t got bored and do a massacre and alert the real FBI. Dean is hanging out with Crowley. Crowley thinks he can put a leash on Dean. IMO maybe Dean just humor him at first, hanging out with him, howling to the moon, having fun with no outward brutality but sooner he got bored of Crowley, I’m sure.
Imagine this, Dean wakes up and leaves the bunker immediately. And just on the first day he already killed 2 people because they look at him funny. The second day, he flashes his black eyes to 3 witnesses and kills 2 of them. The third runs away and alert the police. More and more killings happen and finally the police investigate it and called the FBI, perhaps even alerting the BAU team. Soon, the news of a new serial dark killer with no apparent purpose whatsoever will be on TV. When the police finally caught up with him DemonDean will do a TK toss and break their neck just by the twist of his hand. Soon there will be world news about a demon on the loose and the supernatural world will be revealed.
That’s the scenario that Crowley won’t let happen.What makes Cain is so feared among the demons in Hell is not because he wreck havoc in the human world. It’s because he wreck havoc in Hell. Because as the leader of Knights of Hell he killed so many Angels on battle and kill demons too just as many. As I remember, the show has never shown any records of Cain’s cruelty in the human’s world other than killing his own brother and that had happened eons ago. Perhaps, the magnanimous legend of Cain is merely told from mouth to mouth by Demons through eons with very litle ounce of truth. It is exaggerated.
Now, if Dean goes to Hell then wrecks havoc and brings chaos to Crowley’s very organized Hell, making it just like what it was during Azazel reign, then I’ll call it dark. But, I’m sure Crowley won’t let him do that. The other demons won’t cave so easily to DemonDean too because lot’s of them are sent back to hell by the Winchesters. If any, other demons will shun him but they are still wary because the King appears to favor DemonDean. What will DemonDean do without minion? Can he conquer the world? I dn’t think so. If hunters caught whiff of him, they’ll band together to exorcize him to Hell. So, maybe Crowley persuade DemonDean to not do too much evil to stay alive to be able to have much fun. :):):)
Well so far what we have a bunch of clips of DD who pretty much loves himself. Other than trying to kill Sam that is the only difference I am seeing from these clips in Dean’s personality. Why would I want Dean to be cured of that? It’s about time he loved himself.
But Cheryl demons are incapable of love…they can lust but not love…love is a human trait and dean lost his humanity…..dean doesn’t love anyone or anything…..he just doesn’t give a crap anymore…..and for me, that’s the true tragedy here…..whatever dean may have done…..he has always cared and always loved….and now….he’s basically a……..monster:(
Or whatever the opposite of a human is;)
[quote]they can lust but not love…love is a human trait and dean lost his humanity…..dean doesn’t love anyone or anything…..he just doesn’t give a crap anymore…..and for me, that’s the true tragedy here[/quote]
Sorry nappi, but I am in agreement with Cheryl on this one. I understand what you are saying, and I suppose, in theory, that it is a terrible tragedy that Dean has become what he’s become, the monster inside that he always thought was probably there. I think the writers want us to see that tragedy. The problem isβ¦. I don’t care. Dean’s so ugh, icky, like every girls worst bar pick up nightmare in that sceneβ¦. he’s hedonistic, insensitive, crudeβ¦ and enjoying it which for me is NO fun to watch. And yes, I understand that this is what a demon is and there is no trace of the old Dean Winchester in this new demon version. The problem is that I don’t care about Demon Dean and I am starting not to care about regular Dean and so if he stays a demon fine, and if he goes back to being regular Dean fine and can we just skip over this part and get some info on Sam for a change? I am pretty sure that’s NOT the reaction that TPTB were going for here. I think they thought we’d find DD charming and endearing (some may, but I sure don’t) and maybe he’ll be menacing later (although that’s pretty hard to do when you undermine that menace at every turn with too much cute) and then they’ll probably want us to sympathize while rescued Dean angsts over every little thing he did while a demon; and this is where they are really going to loose me if they aren’t careful, because after the past two years of never ending Dean angst-o-rama, my tolerance is pretty low.
I had high hopes that Demon Dean would be a true badass; vicious, ruthless, uncaring, dark and scary as hell. I had hopes that he’d directly challenge Crowley’s authority and that the other demons would see him as their true leader, upsetting the current power struggle and making Dean a whole new type of adversary; one that Sam wanted to stop and save but not harm. I’m not seeing that in the ‘great sex’, “don’t get too attached sweetheart,” karaoke singing, porn watching rabble-rouser, ain’t he somthin’! Dean from the current crop of clips. I wanted Meg on steroids, I wanted Alistair x 10 or pissed off Lilith level of menace. I am not seeing that, and I am not fond of what they are showing us so far.
[quote]I had high hopes that Demon Dean would be a true badass; vicious, ruthless, uncaring, dark and scary as hell. I had hopes that he’d directly challenge Crowley’s authority and that the other demons would see him as their true leader, upsetting the current power struggle and making Dean a whole new type of adversary; one that Sam wanted to stop and save but not harm.[/quote]
Err… I don’t know E. Honestly that was what I hoped two months ago. It will be so cool because Sam would have to fight him. But seeing the Winchesters history, I don’t think other demons will follow him. Like a cop who was thrown to jail, even if he finally turned bad cop the other inmates will slaughter him because he has put half of them in there. No matter what he do or say, the other inmates will not follow him. Other demons will still hate DemonDean because he’d tortured many of them, killed many of them, exorcised many of them. If not because of the King of Hell by his side they’ll slaughtered him. Even demons have pride.
It’s different if Dean really went to hell for decades and being tortured then be turned into a demon naturally, following the Hell process of turning human’s soul into demon. Hell’s citizen will have time to adjust and Dean’s demonized will be tried, and tested in Hell to finally convince them that he is truly on their side. Dean got turned into a Demon instantly. Hardly anyone knows and I’m positive that not that many demons knows Cain either. So, the more I think of it, plot of Dean fighting Crowley for leadership is too difficult to carry out. I mean Abaddon was trying the same thing and she is hard pressed to find loyal soldier. Even if she is a knight of Hell and supposed to be powerful.
Dean : (Glowering and menacing) Bow before me or I’ll kill you all!!!
Demons : (Snort) Yea, right! Who do you think you are Winchester!! (Spitting on the ground with distastes)
Other Demons : You become a demon in what a day? and you think you can lord over us??? Keep on dreaming! Like I’ll follow someone who’d thrown be back to hell.
Other other Demons : I only follow Abaddon because she has waaaaaayyyyy more history than Crowley. What are you? a Demon wannabe? And I hate Winchesters!!!
Dean already was in hell for decades, his soul nearly turned when he was there torturing people for Alistair. He’d already gained a reputation for being a badass among the other demons. And you know demons, basically they are sheepβ¦ look at how fast they switched sides between Crowley and Abbadon and back again. All Dean would have to do is to show them that he was stronger and more menacing than Crowley is and he’d have been able to take over. But that’s impossible now, because of the DD in that clip; the schmoozing, condescending lover boy and there was absolutely no menace about him. Menace can’t come and goβ¦ you either have it or you don’t, and karaoke singing Dean didn’t have it and neither did lover boy Dean. Ick.
I see it more as vanity.
That’s kind of what I meant. π
But donβt you think itβs a bit of a turn off?
If by a bit you mean major than yes.
π Okay, I guess I donβt then really understand why you wrote:
[quote]Why would I want Dean to be cured of that? It’s about time he loved himself.[/quote]
I was being unsuccessfully sarcastic. π
i’m sorry Cheryl…I didn’t realize you were being sarcastic…..and yes i’m afraid you were positively unsuccessful at it….
:p:D
The problem is not that it’s DD, it’s that its too much regular Dean. How is that Dean any different then the Dean we’ve seen countless other times when he WASN’T a demon? Demons aren’t supposed to be cutsie or endearingβ¦. they are supposed to be DEMONS; they kill people, wreck havoc, maim, pillage, and generally cause mayhem and enjoy it. They don’t make post sex small talk and act cute. We got that with Dean and Cassie.
Well, I haven’t seen the episode, yet. But even Lilith and Azazel are working low profile back then and they are evil. :):):)
Let’s hope that TPTB are still hiding lots of Demon Dean that they haven’t let us see. What I see from the previous clip, from comiccon and the sneakpeak of S10, Demon Dean is wrecking quite a havoc that cause Sam to investigate. That maybe his havoc shows up in media or something? Hehehe
Lilith, Azazel, Alistair, Zachariah, Uriel, Abbadon all this show’s biggest badasses were never, not one time shown to be cutsie, endearing or shown to be making nauseating post sex small talk or hooking up with the babe of the week. It undermines their purpose as a badass, and that’s exactly what that scene did to me for DD, watered him down so that he’s mostly like regular Dean only more of jerk. How am I supposed to take DD seriously now? I fear the Karaoke scene will only reinforce the problem. A true badass, a true villain CAN NOT be made a laughing stock if you want anyone to take him/her seriously.
Hi Kaj, sorry don’t mean to pile on you here! I have to agree with Cheryl. What is the point if Demon Dean isn’t menacing or evil? I was afraid of this for a long time now, that he would just be Dean jacked up into a womanizing uber ass. So Sam is rescuing him from a life of wine, women and song? Meh. I want him to be freaking evil and scary. I know that he kills a few people and has no remorse. Sorry that’s just a sociopath not a demon.
I think: Dean needs to be human; back on the road with Sam; the boys kill Crowley; and then they go back to saving people hunting things, the family business.
Please, please, please do not have them turn the most formidable foe the boys have had in years into a whiny, nagging bitch. Please don’t let Crowley descend into inconsequential comic relief. He needs to keep his menace, we need to see the villain who turned Dean into what his is in the first place, not some whiny, needy stuffed shirt who’s no fun and not threatening. This show has a terrible tendency of doing that to their great side characters; even Cas has been demoted from Mighty Angel of the Lord to laughable sidekick from time to time. Me no likey.
Oh⦠and BTW, Jensen looks amazing. :p
how ironic is it to see a demon with an anti possession tattoo:D
I agree E, making Crowley comedy relief would be a shame. It kind of rubbed me wrong, this promo. Guys and dolls cracking wise like the old Rat Pack. These are demons?
ETA: Could I have picked an older reference that probably no one knows but me? π
π
I know it!! :D:D
True! Dean’s a demon and he still has his, Sam is vulnerable and his is gone!
I thought sam still had his….when did it go? I need to see for myself….we really need to see this man without his shirt on:D
Cas burned Sam’s off so that Crowley could possess him in Road Trip. It hasn’t been replaced that I know of. I hope TPTB remember that.
Cas burned it off so Crowley could possess him. We haven’t seen a shirtless Sam since S8. A travesty….;)
I totally agree:D see now if they had only showed that ep one more time. :p then we could’ve had a nice segue into s10 without that I heart radio “forgive the term” crap…another travesty;):D
They sure skipped a whole bunch of pretty important episodes didn’t they. confused and puzzled face
Well, they replaced that with a shirtless Castiel. :):) If you’re a Misha’s fan I’m sure you loved it.
I don’t have a problem with Misha and Castiel is an okay character as long as he’s not too intrusive in the story line but I’m not sure about the show’s decision to include him in the tradition rotation of a shirtless brother every season.
Just watched this a second time and I have to agree with Cheryl…. WTF? What WAS that? That was Dean and Lisa or Dean and Cassie… a cutsie little love fest and arent’ they precious? And look, the blond demon got her wittle feewings hurt cause she just wuv’s Demon Dean so, so much. These are demons? Don’t demons even have it in for each other? This was just way, way off in tone for anything to do with demons. This is exactly what I was afraid of them doing with Demon Dean (I refuse to use Deanmon cause its so stupid). He’s cutsie and endearing and rakish and charming, but not at all viscious or scary or demony. Yuck. After this, it occurs to me that they way they are going to make Sam look like the ‘true monster’ is to make Dean nausiatingly adorable and funny and not demon like at all. Sam will look awful by comparison.
Hi E. I believe that she is not (supposed to be) a demon (if you mean the girl in bed with Dean) I think she is a ‘feisty waitress’ though it would be funny if it turned out that she WAS a demon. Honestly I don’t know if they (the writers) are doing it on purpose but I think that they are trying to make Dean as deeply unpleasant as possible because there are a good few people who would find merely ‘evil’ Dean incredibly hot and so would not particularly want him to be saved … I think, from what he has said, that is what Jensen is going for – and he is succeeding as far as I am concerned.
I guess it is possible that people are finding DemonDean’s cheesy grin charming, I am not one of those people, so for me yes I badly want to see Dean saved from being this person. I hope that they are planning to make this segment of Dean’s issues funny (in the way some of Sam’s soullessness was funny) with the thinking of making the saving him from the Mark of Cain a more serious storyline.
This entire thing with Dean as a demon I have been describing as ‘Charlie Sheen’ to myself since they first started saying they were going this way with it and nothing has made me think otherwise so far.
I also don’t see how they could possibly do anything with Sam in his mission to rescue Dean that anyone could complain about since a) the point of the last 2 seasons has been ‘do anything for your brother (or else) and damn the consequences’ and b) what on earth could Sam do that Dean or Sam and Dean have not already done?
(BTW writers that isn’t a dare, thanks anyway.)
I have seen Percy’s examples of things Sam might do, and I can see why she came up with them but as far as I can see they will have Sam do the same sorts of things that have always been done (for example by Dean when he came back from Purgatory with PTSD, or towards the end of last season), that many of us have long had a problem with, but NOW the writers will be saying ‘Look! Look at what Sam did (here is some wonky camerawork to emphasise it), he is bad.’
If they try that, with nothing to back it up, just because Sam is the one who SHOULD always be judged for not staying on the straight and narrow, then I think it is going to backfire on them. I think, though, that they are not trying to make Sam into a monster, they are trying to clarify that there are different ways to be a monster. And that both brothers are going to find that they have let themselves go too far along that path. However if it turns out that monsterousness only applies to Sam (yet again) then ….
Actually for once in a way I feel less bad about where they are going with all this. But am withholding judgement until I see some of it.
ETA: I am judging them on “Deanmon” though.
Dean Sheen has a ring to it don’t cha think? Yeah, I didn’t think the blonde waitress was a demon either but she does seem to be chummy with em. Since they went out of their way to mention her in some early spoilers I think she might have some significance. How I am not sure.:)
I rather think Dean Sheen π and Crowley are hanging out in a bar / casino and living the life of Riley. Maybe its like the Devil taking someone and showing them what they could have if they will only serve him. But I think Dean sees it as the other way around.
I mean if Dean and the waitress are in Crowley’s bed then they must have settled into wherever they are. I wonder how come Dean has a key to Crowley’s room ….
That’s why it reminded me of the old Dean Martin/ Frank Sinatra shenanigans with less smoking.:) Maybe they have adjoining suites, not to start any rumors mind you!
oooh smoking! … that WOULD be a convincing argument as to who the real monster is π (See X-files for details)
I like Dean Sheen SOOOOOO much more than Deanmon!
π
They are staying at a roadhouse. I found it really weird that Dean and Crowley are sharing a room. (I think itβs implied that Deanβs bed is right beside the one he had sex on that belonged to Crowley.) They certainly have money and resources to live in a penthouse if they wanted. I wonder if Crowley is trying to take Samβs place on some level.
Hi SanSummer1. What is a roadhouse exactly?:) How does it differ from a hotel or motel?
Iβm assuming itβs like the place Ellen and Jo ran and Ash stayed at. There might be a couple of rooms available for travelers but most come because of the bar. (Someone correct me if Iβm wrong!)
Maybe Crowley thinks itβs fun to βslum it.β However, he has expensive taste and he made fun of the bar Dean was at in β9.17 Mother’s Little Helper.β Crowley wants to be demon Deanβs buddy but maybe he knows that even demon Dean needs a βSamβ by his side. Thus, Crowley and demon Dean party at places Dean would have liked to go, they share a room and Crowley calls him βjerkβ (he has read Chuckβs books.) Crowley might be trying to subtly influence Dean.
Oh yes you are right of course about Harvelle’s having beds in the back. I had forgotten about that. In that connotation I guess I was just thinking tavern. I assumed the beds were pretty basic as in barely more than cots. π Maybe they are slumming it. I was thinking Vegas.:D
[quote]Hi E. I believe that she is not (supposed to be) a demon (if you mean the girl in bed with Dean) I think she is a ‘feisty waitress’ though it would be funny if it turned out that she WAS a demon. Honestly I don’t know if they (the writers) are doing it on purpose but I think that they are trying to make Dean as deeply unpleasant as possible because there are a good few people who would find merely ‘evil’ Dean incredibly hot and so would not particularly want him to be saved … [b]I think, from what he has said, that is what Jensen is going for – and he is succeeding[/b] as far as I am concerned.[/quote]
Agree with you there elif
Thanks Kaj! I must say I feel enormously validated right now π however it sort of looks like the site has an issue ….
If my reply comes up a bunch of times I apologise everyone!
[quote]Hi E. I believe that she is not (supposed to be) a demon (if you mean the girl in bed with Dean) I think she is a ‘feisty waitress’ though it would be funny if it turned out that she WAS a demon. Honestly I don’t know if they (the writers) are doing it on purpose but I think that they are trying to make Dean as deeply unpleasant as possible because there are a good few people who would find merely ‘evil’ Dean incredibly hot and so would not particularly want him to be saved … I think, [b]from what he has said, that is what Jensen is going for – and he is succeeding[/b] as far as I am concerned.[/quote]
I agree with this
[quote]Hi E. I believe that she is not (supposed to be) a demon (if you mean the girl in bed with Dean) I think she is a ‘feisty waitress’ though it would be funny if it turned out that she WAS a demon. Honestly I don’t know if they (the writers) are doing it on purpose but I think that they are trying to make Dean as deeply unpleasant as possible because there are a good few people who would find merely ‘evil’ Dean incredibly hot and so would not particularly want him to be saved … I think, [b]from what he has said, that is what Jensen is going for – and he is succeeding[/b] as far as I am concerned.[/quote]
I agree with this
In the clip the blond knows who Crowley is, and called him by nameβ¦ why would she do that if she weren’t a demon? He of course can’t remember her name, but that’s Crowley for you. So, I was under the assumption that she was a demon. That makes the whole scene doubly nauseating if she actually is. I guess if she isn’t a demon and Dean and Crowley know her for a different reason or are pretending to be someone else its a little more tolerable, but not by much.
I am finding Demon Dean entirely intolerable … I really, really hope that is deliberate. If Dean were to use that grin on me I would feel the ovewhelming urge to spray him in the face with water, like when you want to get a cat to stop doing something …
Jensen on the other hand IS looking fine π
Or maybe spray him in the face with mace? :p
I admit I am very uneasy with how it looks like Demon!Dean and Sam will be portrayed. I remember when we were pretty much told that Sam having sex with a prostitute and paying her and then later sleeping with married women, who wanted to sleep with him was proof that Soulless!Sam was so evil he had to be destroyed. While Dean as a demon is cute and cuddly and funny and hey, the waitress isn’t THAT upset that he isn’t looking for a long term relationship. I hope to high heaven that the writers are punking us, and that the “who is a real monster” is a misdirect because if Dean gets off with “he was a demon and couldn’t help himself, besides he was cute and hot and he didn’t kill that many people” I will be furious. I will be even more furious if this is coupled with Sam doing horrible unforgivable things so Dean repeatedly asks him how he could have been that much of a monster while trying to save Dean. I have lost a lot of trust in the writers in the last two seasons when it comes to handling Sam’s story, so I’m really concerned here.
I guess what I was expecting after waiting all summer was a DD on the same level as Cain. Cain was supposedly a good man who had to make a tough decision in order to save his brothers soul. His price was becoming the first demon, the father of murder, a monster so fierce he raised innocent souls and twisted them into the most powerful demons (Knights of Hell) that the world had ever known. So monstrous was his army that they were even feared in hell. They brought death and destruction to all mankind. And what we are getting after all of our speculations is a badboy who drinks, screws, sings karaoke and gets into bar fights. Wrapped up in a buddy comedy with that lovable scallywag Crowley. The only person that Dean seems to want to kill is Sam so far.
Honestly Percy there is a fairly good chance that Dean will overwhelm his demon-like tendencies in order to save Sam when it matters and that THAT will be Sam’s involvement in ‘saving Dean’ (as I have said before Sam isn’t a Samsel-in-distress the writers treat him like he is The One Ring to Dean’s Frodo – not a person, but an object to be obsessed over) and also that his first response when he is cured from being a demon will be ‘how could you do this Sam? I didn’t want THIS, you became the monster I never wanted you to be ….’ (backed up by the storyline in every possible way to emphasise the point).
If they aren’t going to apply the same morality / rules / internal consistency / blame / bad behavior to Dean as they do to Sam (even when Sam is the victim here / hasn’t done anything) I kinda hope they DO go all out and be as hypocritical as possible so I can give up and go watch something else….
In the meantime I continue to live in the very faint hope that there is some point to the past 2 seasons. And that this show IS supposed to be about 2 brothers (and whatever other characters the writers decide not to kill off right now) and if they want to make it about both brothers overcoming their demons, then ok, fine, but I really need for Dean to acknowledge and atone for his TOO. Since they wouldn’t be IN this mess if it weren’t for his decisions.
Actually, you know, I DON’T want Dean to be blamed for stuff, I don’t want them to do ‘which brother can be shown to be a worse person’. I want for Sam not to be blamed for stuff that Dean doesn’t get blamed for. I would also really like for the microscope that ignores Dean’s behavior be less focused on Sam. I think it is up to Samgirls to sit back and say ‘I am not going to judge Sam for that (whatever ‘that’ turns out to be), because previously we were told that ‘that’, in the context of the show, was perfectly fine. It sucks that the show has taken to treating demons as if they are the gender of their bodies, because demons (and angels) are not male or female they are demons (or angels). it might reflect badly on Sam that he is torturing a ‘female’ because the show is going to say that (i assume, but who knows, they might surprise me). But I noticed that Castiel sticking knives in a ‘female’ demon’s hands last season was left go without judgement. Dean and Sam did awful things to Jeffery. Sam and Dean ‘allowed’ Mrs Tran to kill that demon. Dean sliced 2 throats very slowly and methodically because he was enjoying it etc… so now the show is trying to say Sam is bad because it is a female demon? Is THAT the angle they are going to take? Well at least the ‘female’ demon he is torturing is fully dressed (I say that with 100% contempt of the sexism of the writers both then and now if that IS their angle on this).
Sadly, I understand. I do think it’s quite possible that Dean will save himself due to his love of Sam and Sam will have done “horrible” things (things Dean has done and gotten a pass for, but unforgivable because it’s Sam) and accomplished nothing. If we’re right, then I might be able to walk away.
Can someone explain how Dean being a “demon” (I use the term loosely since SN”s demons are more like Twilights Vampires these days) will hekp him overcome his inner ‘demons’? And can someone explain why we are supposed to want Dean ‘saved” from being a demon when the writers seem to be glorifying him? Seriously….The year of the Deanmon. They make him sound like an amish youth on his Runspringa. We should be both fearing Dean and fearing FOR him.
Honestly if Dean goes off on Sam for things he did to save him (and i still highly doubt the writers will alllow Sam to actually to the saving) I will be very upset. I would root for Sam to punch Dean, wipe his memory and then walk away. They may be brothers but as we all know Family dont end with blood.
[quote] Seriously….The year of the Deanmon. They make him sound like an amish youth on his Runspringa. [/quote]
giggle, that is a terrible calumny on the poor Amish, but … yes, now that you say it that is exactly what they are making it seem like…
I think the aftermath of his stint as a demon is what Dean will be dealing with for a good portion of S10. They’re really playing up the hedonistic, good times aspect of Demon Dean, almost playing it for laughs. Sure hope there’s more to it than that, otherwise I view this as the biggest cop out in the history of the show. If he’s gonna be a demon, then make him a demon. And isn’t Dean a little old for rumspringa ? π
But what aftermath? That he LIKED being a demon and he didn’t do anything REALLY bad, unlike Sam the horrible who did monstrous things to save a Dean who didn’t want to be saved and who was less of a monster as a demon than Sam is as a human? This feels uncomfortably like another round of Sam bashing, this time because he tried to save Dean, instead of season eight where we had Sam bashing because he didn’t try to save Dean. I’m really uncomfortable with what we are being told about this season. The last time I felt this way was before season eight when they said Sam hadn’t looked for Dean. Then I believed we would eventually be given insight into how Sam broke and how he reacted IMMEDIATELY after losing Dean and we got zilch. Now we are going to see Sam going off the rails and once Dean gets cured of being a demon, I suspect we will get zilch as to how Sam feels about anything. I am not optimistic.
[quote]They’re really playing up the hedonistic, good times aspect of Demon Dean, almost playing it for laughs. Sure hope there’s more to it than that, otherwise I view this as the biggest cop out in the history of the show.[/quote]
An even bigger cop out then introducing a controversial and touchy subject like non-con and then brushing all the repercussions of it under the table, diluting it to the point that the victim was made to seem churlish for daring to be upset about it? Bigger than that?
Now E, you KNOW we aren’t supposed to be noticing that. Nothing to see here. It is not important in the grand scheme of things … lets make a ‘teen mom’ joke to show it isn’t important ….
(though, in all seriousness, I honestly wonder do the writers even remotely understand the allegory they wrote? And the victim blaming they wrote …. )
No I do not think they did. I do not know whether the story is finished or not or what difference it would make now even if it isn’t , I do know that season 9 was unpleasant to watch for me because of how they wrote the scenario they created for Sam.
In couldn’t agree more eilf. And now a few people are saying that not doing demon dean justice would be more of a cop out than what they did with Sam. I don’t agree in any way at all with that because the story of Dean becoming an demon is only applicable to the show and does not have further reaching social implications the way that a story about forced consent does. To me, those two issues are not even in the same league and to drop the ball on such a subject, even imply that the victim is at fault is WAY worse than any story that they could bring up with Dean being a demon IMO. They’d have to have demon Dean killing bunnies and kittens and putting out babies eyes in order to even come close, and they won’t do it, at least not to Dean anyway. Someone else said it before, Supernatural should NOT tackle difficult social issues, especially social issues that are largely WOMEN’S social issues, not until they get a few more strong women on their writing staff. They just shouldn’t. A room full of men are going to come up short on the subject and they did, in spades.
So, my every hopeful (and yet doubting and jaded) self is hoping against hope that they don’t’ drop the ball on Demon Dean and make him a high school, jock, douchebag instead of a fearsome demon and here’s to hoping that in season 10 that there is some small attempt (too late, and inadequate though it will be) to show how forced content is a bad thing and that Sam suffered as a consequence and that Dean should understand that in some small way and vow never to do it again. He’s already claimed that he WILL do it again, so I ain’t holding out much hope.
You will see that I put what I believe is actually going to happen further down in response to Percy. I think it is actually the best case scenario, from the point of view of this iteration of SPN by these writers. But it doesn’t make me feel any less strongly about (what a lot of people see as) the incredibly offensive parts of last season.
An even bigger cop out then introducing a controversial and touchy subject like non-con and then brushing all the repercussions of it under the table, diluting it to the point that the victim was made to seem churlish for daring to be upset about it? Bigger than that?
and
(though, in all seriousness, I honestly wonder do the writers even remotely understand the allegory they wrote? And the victim blaming they wrote …. )
E and eilf: This is my biggest problem with season 9. And like percysowner my fear is that it was all for nothing and that Dean will once again be seen as mr perfect while Sam will be made to look like a monster again. Given what’s happened since JC came on board that is a valid fear. He’s shown no understanding or care toward Sam. Demon Dean doesn’t appear to me to be any different than Human Dean so what was the point of going there. If there are no consequences for Dean, that will be the biggest cop out in the history of SPN and that’s saying something.
i don’t think that story is done being told and, your sarcasm aside, yes I do think this would be a bigger cop out.
I do hope you are right that the show is not done telling the violation of Sam story. I hated the way that was handled as much as anyone. However, I agree with you that Dean being a fun, happy, hedonistic, good times demon would be far more of a cop out. If that is all that happens then why have they been fighting demons all these years? If demons aren’t inherently evil, then Sam was just a bad judge of which demon you could trust, he was stupid not because he didn’t realize that all demons are bad and can’t be trusted, but because, of course SOME of them are just misunderstood good time Charlies and Sam doesn’t have the sense God gave a billy goat, so he is incapable of seeing that. It means that all those demons they killed over the years, simply because they were demons, were murders without just cause, because if Dean can be an okay demon, then so can any other demon, if you just get to know them. Heck Lucifer wasn’t that bad, because he didn’t really twist people so badly that once they became demons they were irretrievably evil. Some demons can be the real life of the party. Yeah, they don’t believe in getting married or sending child support if they have a kid, maybe they skip out on their bills or pay their way by running credit card scams and using fake IDs. If all this is true, then what does that say about the whole premise of the show? Of course there are 2 other ways to look at it. The first is that Dean is so pure of heart and soul, so truly the righteous man that his soul can not be corrupted even when he becomes a demon. I would have a real issue with that. The other implication is that people who have sex with consenting adults and enjoy it, drink and don’t feel guilty, sing bad karaoke and are completely self-centered and not interesting in other people are evil. I don’t want to watch a show where having sex outside of marriage means you are evil. Where getting drunk means you are evil. Where not being able to sing well, but singing anyway means you are evil.
I am going to assume that Dean will actually do SOMETHING that qualifies (or would have qualified in past seasons) as demonic. Murder people? Torture them? If he doesn’t then yes, the story becomes an even worse cop out than last year, IMHO. This is going to be an interesting tightrope. How do they make Dean bad enough to need being “saved” without having him do things that fans will see as unforgivable? They did it with Sam and the nurse, something some fans have never gotten over. The real question is what did they take from that lesson? That they can go that far with Dean? Or that since fans are still bringing that up as why Sam is unforgivable years later, that they must not go that far with Dean? As I said, an interesting tightrope.
I believe they are done with the possession story. They spent all season telling us ‘hey it wasn’t such a bad thing to do, Sam should be more grateful for having such a masterful brother to make his decisions for him’. I could be wrong, but JC said that the brothers were in ‘a good place’ at the end of the season so I think we are done.
So, moving on. There is really no way they can make Dean as evil as is being requested. They are also not going to. The show has given us too much ‘well it’s Dean, it’s ok’ for his activities, even as a demon, to be judged too much, especially when the tagline for this season is ‘which one is the real monster?’ Basically anything he will do will be explained away.
Making him hedonistic and annoying and capable of killing whoever he wants to kill is all they can do. Hence he will kill some guys outside of a bar but that happens all the time on tv shows and won’t mean much, it won’t be remembered after the end of the episode. It is possible that the waitress witnesses one of these deaths and confronts him about it and he kills her (‘quit nagging me, woman!’) … but honestly that is the only scenario that I can think of that will make Dean being a demon personal enough… and I don’t see them doing that.
I think that the point is that he is either going to start a rebellion in hell (because he is a good demon) which will annoy Crowley or try to take over hell (because he is a power-crazed demon) which will annoy Crowley and either way Crowley will have bitten off more than he can chew.
Going back to Sam and his trusting of one demon. Well people are going to say what they are going to say. But the truth of the matter is that Ruby was the most powerful and cunning demons the show has ever had. She fooled everyone – angels, demons, Bobby, Sam and Dean on behalf of Lucifer (who isn’t a demon). The fact that the show might choose not to remember it (because canon is for wimps) doesn’t make it any less true. Nobody TRUSTED her, including Sam, though Sam was addicted to her, but she DID fool everyone, and everyone (except Bobby) was involved in starting the apocalypse.
All the demons we have seen for more than one episode have shown themselves capable of doing things that on the surface look like ‘good’ things but they have always been for the ultimate benefit of the demon. It is going to be extremely difficult to show in 3 or 4 episodes the degree of evil DemonDean is. Like it was impossible to clarify whether being soulless made Sam evil. I don’t think they are even going to try. They are going to do their best to prove that DemonDean ISN’T Dean and they do that by showing he doesn’t care about Sam, and will try to kill Sam. In the meantime we are going to have Charlie Sheen crossed with Goodfellas …
I was very vocal in my condemnation of the way they played down, almost to the point of dismissing Sam’s possession arc in S9. Part of that was to give Gadreel a path to redeeming himself. Personally, I had always faulted Dean more for this than Ezekiel/Gadreel. That being said, with Dean being “consumed” and demonized by the Mark of Cain, while technically this isn’t a possession, it is “possession-adjacent” so I’m hopeful that once Dean is cured, he’ll finally understand why what he did to his brother, while well intentioned, was so wrong.
It looks to me that Demon Dean is being played in such a way to give him an easier path to redemption. Hope I’m wrong and they go all in on this Demon Dean arc, but I guess we’ll wait and see.
If the DD story is over in 3 episodes I don’t see how they can show (except in flashbacks :() an evil MOC possessed Dean more terrifying than anything we have ever seen. The teasers don’t seem to support that.
I agree, and in fact since Sam was the only character who seemed to think that having him possessed was a betrayal of trust I would say that they DID dismiss the storyline. I mean Dean angsted about it a bit but when it came down to it he couldn’t see what, if anything, he had done wrong, he said as much. And not one other character sided with Sam’s point.
I am extremely sceptical that they can or intend to work out a way to call back to this issue from Dean recovering from being possessed / being a demon because the issues are different. I hope they can and that you and nappi are correct and that it is all one long connected storyline but I honestly don’t think that the writers are that interested. The remainder of the season appears to be about Dean ‘learning how to be a hero again’ and honestly at this stage I don’t know how Sam is supposed to be seen in Dean’s story.
Cheryl, as to Dean’s story:
The situation with the mark of Cain could be really interesting since it might be like Spike’s chip on Buffy (that prevented him attacking people) or Sam resisting the Lucifer hallucinations, or even Sam and the demon blood. It will prevent Dean from acting first and thinking later since every time he gets blood on his hands it will draw him closer to being a demon again. If that is what the writers are planning (and they have said they have no idea what they are going to do after the first few episodes…. which instills loads of confidence) then it actually could be an interesting storyline.
They would have to stop ‘damseling’ Sam for one thing – if neither of them can win a fight they are both going to be dead first vampire they come across.
Castiel was a very surprised when he found out in 9.10 Road Trip that Dean had tricked Sam into being possessed; he didn’t really comment on it any further, though. And who else besides Crowley, and maybe Kevin after he died, even knew? And I agree that they are different issues but are related in that Dean, like Sam, has been taken over by something he would never agree to (and yes, he was foolish for not asking Cain about the burden of taking it on in the first place). So, in that regard, I’m hoping it will give Dean some empathy for what he did to Sam, walking in his shoes, so to speak. I’m optimistic about where this is headed, otherwise I wouldn’t be watching, given my disappointment in the latter part of season 9.
I do agree about the Mark of Cain and it’s potential impact on Dean’s actions, or inactions, in S10. And I had to laugh about your Samsel in distress comments, especially after they released the photos of Sam tied up by Cole. π
[quote]Hi E. I believe that she is not (supposed to be) a demon (if you mean the girl in bed with Dean) I think she is a ‘feisty waitress’ though it would be funny if it turned out that she WAS a demon. Honestly I don’t know if they (the writers) are doing it on purpose but I think that they are trying to make Dean as deeply unpleasant as possible because there are a good few people who would find merely ‘evil’ Dean incredibly hot and so would not particularly want him to be saved … [b]I think, from what he has said, that is what Jensen is going for – and he is succeeding[/b] as far as I am concerned.[/quote]
Agree with you there elif
π Kaj when you agree with someone you REALLY agree with them! 17 times. Must be a site quirk, but is pretty funny!
:D:D Well, when I first post it it refused to show my comment. Then I tried to refresh and it won’t show, so I re-post it again. I tried to refresh and delete my other comments but the edit won’t work. Hahaha….
LOL, we’ve all done it!
I think there’s a lot of jumping to conclusions based on a clip that was all of one minute and thirty nine seconds. my two cents….well the season is starting off about 4wks in am I correct? so dean has been a demon and missing for a month now and sam has been frantically looking for him for a month. a lot can happen in a month…now granted, the way it sounds, dean won’t be a demon onscreen for more than about 3 eps..give or take an ep….so i’m don’t know what we will get to see in those three eps….that doesn’t mean we wont’ be getting flashback clips of what dean and sam were doing during that month off screen….
there are 23 eps in a season….we got to see a couple of clips from the first three or four eps…. i just don’t see the need to jump to conclusions and think the worst when show hasn’t even started yet….
me….i have no doubt this season will be awesome and i can’t wait for it to start…..
by the by….there is nothing sam could do short of drowning puppies and kittens that would ever make me see him as anything but a hero….. i could say the same for dean as well. π
I guess my problem is all of the other clips we’ve seen so far is Dean singing karaoke (Imaginary Lover and I’m too Sexy), reading porn, having sex (and evidently in a long term relationship as far as Deans relationships go), getting into bar fights, having a beer with Crowley, being Crowley’s bestest friend and chasing Sam around the bunker. I was devastated at the end of last season. It really affected me for a long time. And now I feel like the whole DD story is going to be a joke. It is a huge let down for me. I agree it isn’t the whole episode but the last clip didn’t inspire any real fear in me for Dean and what he has become. If that was the intent of the clip it failed. If the intent was to show us that it’s still Dean just more obnoxious well mission accomplished.
i watch clips that are posted here and I’ve only seen three of them. sam and dean in the bunker, which is pretty dark and a bit scary….sam torturing that demon, which is pretty dark and scary….and lastly the clip from above. from past experience, whenever we get to see a clip from show, it’s usually a scene from the first 5 minutes. so my guess, this is how the show starts….doesn’t mean it won’t get darker or scarier from there.
as for dean singing karaoke, i don’t recall a clip with that, i just remember seeing a picture…..who’s to say that right after he’s done putting on a show, and i have a feeling it’ll be purposefully awful…who’s to say dean won’t kill a heckler from the audience or someone else for that matter. as for him and Crowley being besties, i don’t think that will be the case at all and not from Crowley’s lack of trying. dean always read porn, why would being a demon stop him? i don’t think the clip was meant to inspire fear… i don’t think it meant to be a joke either…..not for nothing, but that clip could’ve been normal dean..the only difference here was that normal dean would’ve been a little more subtle…i just think it’s just one aspect of dean’s demonic behavior and not the only one… besides, we got the clip of dean being dark and scary…so it makes sense to show another aspect of his behavior as well to get the whole picture.
don’t leave me alone in the wilderness Cheryl…..you’re one of the very few out here with me…… it’s very easy to fall prey to the negativity….. in all honesty and by Chuck with no offense intended….are you sure you’re worries and fears are yours? fear is contagious…even unsubstantiated fear. π
look you can worry about something that may very well not happen and take all the joy away from the anticipation of s10….or you could just have faith…let yourself be excited and actually wait and see the eps for yourself and then decide….;)
i’m just gonna enjoy….and secretly wish that this season we can get a nice shirtless sam scene …..:D
Hi Nappi, just wanted to insert a little comment since I am one of the people who people who agrees with Cheryl. We have discussed this for months on and off now on the cbox and it was something we were concerned about. It is not a new notion. I like to think I am a pretty positive person in general about the show. I hope I didn’t infect anyone with any contagious negativity. I was kinda hoping I was at least on the edges of the wilderness π Bye the way, you (or anyone else here) are welcome to join us in the cbox anytime. It was a nice way to pass the time during hiatus.
leah, I don’t think you’re negative. i wasn’t trying to insult anyone…especially Cheryl….. it just seems that at this time of year, so close to show, it’s commonplace for a lot jumping to conclusions and often times thinking the worst…it just seems to me and me alone, that there isn’t enough information to automatically assume the worst, but hey maybe for some there is. for me personally, i don’t think a one minute clip defines dean’s demon character. i don’t feel that 99 seconds is a sufficient amount of time to make such conclusions….and how many times in the past has the show been assumed to be the worst and it turns out that it simply wasn’t the case at all. i highly doubt they’re going to spoil us with the really good stuff…i’m sure they just want to lure us in with a tease….then again, i thought tptb kind enough to give us a taste of dark dean as well….so we can kind of get the picture that it’s not all womanizing and singing bad karaoke. π if i’m show, i’m not going to reveal the good stuff…you’re going to have to tune in and watch for yourself. π
with all that’s going on in this world today….the one thing i am sure of, the one thing i know i can believe in, the one thing i’m sure will always make me smile…is this show. that’s just me though….i only offer a positive outlook…you can tell me to stick my positive outlook where the sun doesn’t shine…..but i’ll always have it…because this show is the one thing that has never let me down….again…that’s me…;)
what is cbox?
Hey nappi, I wasn’t insulted, I just wanted you to know it has come up before here and on the cbox. Not a new subject for us. I think some of us worried about a watered down DD. I am excited about the new season and have an open mind about it. I know not to get too bent about any spoiler. I for one appreciate your staunch optimism that the show has a plan and it will be realized. π
The WFB cbox is a place where some of us go to talk about the show, share links and sometimes just shoot the breeze about whatever! If you would like to drop in, or anyone else , please do! It’s fun. To reach the chat box just go to the main page and click on cbox, it’s to the left and down from the latest comment link. It will take you to the chat box. Just enter your name and put in a comment and hit “go” it’ll post instantly. If anyone is around they will pop on and talk to you. Just remember to refresh often. Otherwise the posts of others won’t always appear.
nappi815 … the best way not to get dragged into the negativity is by stay off spoilers. No visiting websites like this, no twitter or youtube. And just let ourselves be surprised by what to come.
But I figure out that ninety percent of the fun joining fandom is by talking and angsting about the show and its characters. :):):):) So, yeah, …
π
The first promo clips we saw of DD were him singing karaoke. The clip where Sam is looking at video of Dean beating up the guy in the convenience store is where he is reading porn (that is also when Sam discovers that Dean is a demon). There is also a short scene of Dean beating the crap out of a guy outside the bar with Crowley and girlfriend watching. The last clip was so poorly acted by all involved I can’t even describe how disappointing it was. And so far he has only menaced Sam in the promos. I know it is just a clip but I wanted to feel horrible for Dean not squirm uncomfortably. I am trying not to be negative I am just really disappointed by all of the teasers so far. And by the way I never think you are insulting anyone. π
Cheryl….thats’ why they’re called teasers :D….to tease you..to make you crazy …to lure you in….whether you like what you see or you worry about what you see…whatever the case….you will watch to find out what really happens…and that’s exactly what tptb want you to do. π
I would never insult you or leah or anyone….I don’t begrudge you any concern you might have….I only try to offer the bright side. the it could very well be the not what you think approach…;)
I guess my point is that these teasers are not enticing me to be interested in DD at the moment. I am just very disappointed at the moment.
Well cheer up dammit……don’t make me make dean lick your face:D
Hmmm…..that really isn’t any incentive to cheer up you know…what with Dean licking my face and all. :p
Demon spit…….ew:D
Who is not very demony in this clip. LOL, we have come full circle.
See but I think he is demony. See the way I look at it, if dean were human he most likely would be with Sam saving someone instead of having cheap sex not giving a damn about the girl or anyone else for that matter……see when most are in the circle….I’m off in the square…….but hey, it’s hip to be square:D
We’re getting a little skinny here (don’t I wish:)) but I think a MoC demon should be fierce, scary, and formidable. Just a little let down, not in any way will that effect my excitement for the premiere of the show at this point. A womanizing charming serial killer is not what I was expecting. In this clip he’s more likely to pass on an STD than kill you. I am looking forward to the show and how all this will play out as much as anyone but I just didn’t enjoy this clip. No big deal.;)
Skinny…..if only:D
I just don’t think diabolical dean shoul be counted out just yet based on this clip. Seems to me this clip is more about illustrating what Jensen was trying to make clear when explaining how to separate demon dean from dean. I truly think this clip was just the tip of the iceberg and nothing to panic over…..
I guess I see this version of dean to be menacing because he’s so good looking…so seemingly charming….so easy to fall for and then bam mo….we really don’t know what’s to become of this waitress……I doubt she knows that dean is a demon. I think he’s more along the lines of American psycho…and he was scary imho.
You know….I never said I liked the clip……I just don’t see it as true indication of what demon dean will really be like;)
Fair enough my friend:). No panic here though. I will definitely reserve judgement on the show, just not on that unsavory clip.:p
;):)
I’m going to have a hard time finding DD diabolical after having to endure that clip. How are we supposed to take THAT guy seriously? I wanted to feel that the girl herself was in mortal danger from a Dean who could snap at a moments notice.. breaking her neck on a whim after their “terrific” sex for no other reason than because he felt like it. Now that’s a demon. Anything less is meh.
Kind of like the look on SS’s face with the hooker. She was nothing to him, he could have killed or gone another round with her and not felt a dam thing. Aren’t demons supposed to be a little something like that?
Exactly! In that scene with SS and the hooker I kept thinkingβ¦ lady if you don’t stop ogling him and just leave with your life intact he’s going to get tired of your and snap your neck. I got the feeling that while she was admiring him, her life was ticking slowly away with his patience. It was very intense. The scene with Dean and the blonde? Not so much. It actually felt like a bad sit-comβ¦. like King of Queens or something, rather than DD and Supernatural . He didn’t have to killer her, we just had to think he might.
wasn’t the cw showing that clip diabolical? π
i understand your concern. the way i look at it, just because she didn’t feel she was in mortal danger in that scene, doesn’t necessarily mean there won’t come a scene where she actually is in mortal danger. we don’t know the context of the scene and we don’t know what happens before it or after it…..so for me, i guess i can see dean going from how he’s behaving in this scene now to being absolutely diabolical in the next scene…..that’s what makes him menacing imho…..because based on the two different aspects of how demon dean has been portrayed….he can go from Jekyll to hyde at any time….i actually find that a bit scary….again, that’s just my very own opinion;) and i know my optimism can reach ad nauseum……but i can’t help myself….it’s an automatic knee jerk reaction for me…..i will always look for the positive in every situation. yes i know, i’m a pain in the ass….but as i so fondly recall….so is sam….so i guess i’ll just stick around and be a pain in the ass.. π
In other words Dexter?
I actually liked Dexter. He has a great sense of humor and is loyal to people he cares about. I wouldn’t have minded hanging out with him except for that pesky killing thing he was compelled to do.:D
I’m on your boat Nappi. That has just me not post that much. π
– Lilah
I’m in good company;)
[quote]by the by….there is nothing sam could do short of drowning puppies and kittens that would ever make me see him as anything but a hero….. i could say the same for dean as well. ;)[/quote]
Drowning kittens, I like it. Don’t forget demon blood. As long as Sam doesn’t drink demon blood again, I think anything he does wouldn’t be so bad. Or is it? π
Nappi- I agree with you about not jumping to conclusions based on what little we have been shown with the little promos they show us. I no longer pay attention to the promos, spoilers, interviews and even the articles that they put out that only have one purpose (at least I think it has one purpose) to make the fans go crazy and worry about what is going to happen.
I am also on the positive train for this season, well honestly about the whole show. I enjoy most aspects of the show and even when the show is not good it is still better than 95% of anything else out there.
Do I like every storyline or arc, no, but I don’t write the show, I watch it because I enjoy it and I watch what I see on the TV, not what I think may happen. I don’t speculate on what I think may happen because I am usually wrong and I don’t want to think something may happen and then get disappointed when it doesn’t happen.
I am not saying anyone is wrong if they like to do that, I think everyone who watches the show should be able to watch it, how they want and comment how they want, (short of bashing)and think about it how they want to. We all have our own take on different scenes and episodes and we seldom change our minds just because of how others see the show.
Bring on S10!:D
Hey Nov, I agree with you completely. Speaking for myself it was a gut reaction to a clip, not the show in general. I will watch the show which I still love and based opinions on what we are shown. Everyone should and does have the right to their opinions. I think we all like to speculate, debate and hash things out because it passes the time and it’s kinda fun. :D;)
Ugh, there was so much comments again on this thread so I’ll just toss it down here. Anyway to [b]Kaj,[/b] believe me when I say that I don’t want to angst about the show like you said that I love to watch. π But jokes aside. I really choose rather to be exited. What keeps me exited are the articles here and the talks in the CBox where Leah invited people again. One other site that I visit and gives also good reviews and is a nice site is Fangasm. It’s slightly calmer and Sweetondean is always positive. I visit those two if I need a boost for my mood and just in general now.
To [b]Nappi[/b] I think in one interview or what not Jensen said that he doesn’t want to play DD as the normal bad guy. Kill everything and explode the world because let’s face it. That would be easy. So I am eager to see how he will play it and I am not going to judge that episode based on a clip or the whole season. I think mostly like you do so don’t need to repeat those things here. And spoiler part on DD that actually showed me is enough about DD:
In comic con clip where Dean is trying to kill Sam by slicing his head off is enough badness from him tbh. That is the worst thing Dean can do in my eyes if you regard his character and how he cares about his brother and well. Trying to keep him alive if he can.
I just think it’s nice we have gotten the previews and clips. Maybe next year if there is one I will try the none spoilerish route. π
– Lilah
PS: Chathugs! Nov and welcome back!
[quote]To Nappi I think in one interview or what not Jensen said that he doesn’t want to play DD as the normal bad guy. Kill everything and explode the world because let’s face it. [b]That would be easy.[/b] So I am eager to see how he will play it and I am not going to judge that episode based on a clip or the whole season.[/quote]
That already makes me excited. Playing a bad guy and evil demon is easy for Jensen? Suddenly, Ben from Dark Angel and Tom Hanigan comes to mind. Yes, Jensen has several experience of playing evil. So, I’m sooo excited of what kind of DD he wants to play. I’m sure he wants to introduce a new unique character. Perhaps Nappi is right. Perhaps DD will be kind and goofy in one moment and suddenly evil and dark the next second. Whiplash much?
Might be. Soon we will see! π
– Lilah