sweetondean’s Spoiler-lite Preview – “Supernatural” 8.19 “Taxi Driver”
Hang on to your hats, or trucker caps, or fisherman caps or whatever it is you feel you need to hang on to (hey, Dean, over here!), because this episode looks like it might be a cracker, though 2 things may prevent that…
But first!
THEN
So, there was this hunter who put his trust in, and worked with a vampire,
Wait. What? Ummm.
Ok, before filler-interruptus,
Sam was in the midst of the trials set forth by God and they’re making him go all Doc Holliday.
Dean was hoping an old friend could keep an eye out for his little brother, until said friend beat the snot out of Dean and absconded with the angel tablet.
Castiel is no longer under the influence of Naomi and is currently riding a Greyhound bus.
Crowley is pissed.
Naomi is pisseder.
Kevin is studying half a demon tablet and living on hotdogs and pep pills, one supposes.
Garth is…Garthing and persumably, checking in on people left and right.
Benny is,somewhere, probably waiting by the phone, whilst sipping O+.
They killed Meg! YOU BASTARDS!
NOW
It’s time for Trial Number 2! OMG OMG OMG OMG! Somebody hold me! (Dean?)
So here we are,1 episode before a 2-week, damn it all to hell’s gates, mini-hiatus. Traditionally, episodes that play prior to any kind of hiatus like to cut our hearts out with a spoon and then pat them all over the room like a cat with a moth. Good times!
So shall we look at the synopsis?
SAM AND DEAN FACE THE SECOND TRIAL – Sam and Dean respond to a call from Kevin who is terrified after hearing Crowley’s voice in his head. After hearing Kevin’s news, Sam and Dean team up with reaper named Ajay (guest star Assaf Cohen), who helps them deal with the second trial from the Tablet. Meanwhile, Dean receives a visit from Naomi (guest star Amanda Tapping) and realises he must find Benny and ask for a huge favour.
Guy Bee directed the episode written by Eugenie Ross-Leming & Brad Buckner.
Sounds fantastic! Plus it’s directed by Guy Bee and written by,well, looky, there’s those 2 things I was talking about earlier.
Eugenie Ross-Leming and Brad Buckner are not the best writers on the team. “A Little Slice of Kevin” is probably their strongest episode to date and well, that was a big mytharc one,so maybe they’re good at mytharc, and getting Dean’s gear off, well twice, but I’m thankful for both times. But seeing their names makes me groan a little, I just hope Mr Bee, who is a lovely director with a great eye and who is particularly proficient at tense, emotional scenes and action scenes, can pull their script together, if indeed, it needed pulling.
So, though this episode really does look and sound amazing, I bet most of us are going in with all our digits crossed (and safely out of Crowley’s reach).
Let’s check out the CW promo,
OK, now I will admit something here, I screencapped this to have a closer look at a few frames,
So an innocent soul has to be rescued from Hell. I’m pretty sure we’re all thinking it’s a certain dead hunter, with a penchant for trucker caps. I have to say, I think we might be right (but then again, maybe we’re wrong),but I’m going to do a little jig around this one, because this preview is supposed to be spoiler-lite.
Let’s look at the Sneak Peek, because, well,
So Bobby is in Hell, if we believe this Reaper, which I probably do, because Reapers have been pretty cool in the past. Crowley made sure that Bobby didn’t “fly the friendly skies”. I guess with God parts unknown, he has that kind of swing!
Sam’s off to Hell, Dean ain’t happy about it,but he’s rolling with it, because what else can he do, let’s face it; a determined Sam is a force to be reckoned with! Just look at how he storms off, all hot like that. Sorry…but storming Sam is smokin’!
I really like that he’s packing the demon knife! I hope there’s no metal detector at the border!
Sam’s supposed to be back in 24 hours,but I’m guessing, seeing as Benny get’s that phone call, he’s a no show.
That lurking lurker who lurks might have something to do with Sam getting trapped down below. One of Crowley’s henchmen? One of Naomi’s?
So Dean hollers for a vampire to help him retrieve his little brother who’s “stuck down there”. I’m assuming that’s because Benny’s not mortal so he can cross the border, where Dean cannot.
If Benny’s off to Hell to find Sam, what are the possible outcomes?
Door number 1: Benny saves Sam and so Sam sees the side of Benny that his brother trusts.
Door number 2: Benny sacrifices himself/gets trapped for Sam, proving to Sam he was on the up and up and proving to Dean he was a good friend and making both of them feel like crap.
Door number 3: Benny can’t save Sam and comes back empty handed and Dean has to figure out some other way to get Sam home safely.
Door number 4: This is when we discover Benny was playing us all along and he’s in cahoots with Crowley/Naomi or he’s just plain evil.
Door number 5: He tells Dean to stick it.
I’m sure there are other options. Like none of the above. I think doors 1, 3 are most likely. Possibly number 2. But who knows,and I’m rubbish at theories, so I’m going to stop now.
Oh look… CHCH promo – which really decides not to bother with beating around the bush! So much for my jig!
Bobby? Adkjfhakjdhfasklfh!
What if the soul being rescued thing is a trap? What if that’s just what Crowley makes Kevin hear in his head? Maybe Crowley thinks if he can get Sam into his crib and hold Sam hostage, Dean will do anything to get him back, including getting his hands on the angel tablet, however he must and handing it over to the King of Hell. Or maybe there’s no trap, the trial is just the trial and when that person turns around he says, “Idjit, why’d you come after me”. Damn it, I’m theorising again (and making myself cry)!
On that soul being rescued thing,even if that soul gets out of Hell, it doesn’t mean that soul is coming back to us. Remember what happened to John? This could be about releasing that soul to Heaven where it belongs. Or the whole thing could be a fake out. So don’t get your hopes up!
Poor Sam, having to revisit his worst nightmare. Great big hero! I would imagine this part of Hell would be vastly different from where he was trapped with Lucifer,but will it play on his mind? What other horrors is he going to see down there? Thankfully he seems to be mentally strong, even if his body is getting beaten about by the trials. Which begs the question, what will be the physical outcome of trial number 2?
And what of Naomi visiting Dean? He knows her name now, is he about to find out more about her? Are we? Is she going to try to reason with Dean and get Dean onside in this whole angel tablet fiasco (good luck sweetie)? Or does Dean pray to Cass, hopping his “frenemy” will help Sam and Naomi eavesdrops? Does Naomi go to Dean and offer to help get Sam out of Hell, if Dean helps her get the tablet back? Does she have information that makes Dean contact Benny for help,in which case, does that bring us back to the Benny may be in league with/an unwitting pawn of, Naomi. Or is it Dean’s idea to contact Benny, because Benny’s the one non-mortal “person” he thinks he can call on right now. What’s Naomi up to! Why am I theorising again?
Part of me wonders if this episode is going to be a “to be continued” number. GOD FORBID. It just feels like it might be. Like if Sam get’s trapped or if Dean’s Benny plan doesn’t work.
There’s no synopsis for episode 20 available yet either, which is weird. The title doesn’t make me think it will roll on from this though. It’s “Pac-Man Fever”. Unless,see now I’m seeing Sam running through tunnels in Hell being chased by a Pac-Man! Picking up souls along the way for points! I’d so play that! Sorry,I digressed! But, I’m pretty sure episode 20 is the one with Felicia Day.
You know, we’ve never really seen Hell. We saw a brief look at Dean’s BDSM Hell, we saw Sam on fire, we saw Crowley’s queue to no-where (so damn good, that idea…), but this looks like a part of Hell where souls are locked up and tortured for eternity. It may sound weird, but I’m so looking forward to seeing it! I hope we get to spend more time down below with Sam than up top with fretting Dean,though I seriously want to know what Naomi wants and I’m quite looking forward to seeing Benny again and I do love fretting Dean, He’s so pretty when he frets. Wait. Redundant statement.
Another thing about this episode…there were no promotional photos…maybe they were too spoiler (maybe the on-set photographer had the week off). So the caps in this article are from the preview clip – hence they’re a tad on the ropey side.
About the title…ummm, well I’ve never heard of it, but while googling away, I found an entry for a British TV comedy called, The Mighty Boosh. There’s an episode of this show called Bollo. In this episode, a Reaper named Phil, drives a taxi and mistakenly picks up and takes a man called Howard, who is dressed as a sick gorilla called Bollo, to Monkey Hell where Howard gets trapped. Howard is able to contact his friend Vince via a haunting and tells Vince of his predicament. Vince goes to see a Shaman called Naboo who tells Vince the information he needs in order to get to Limbo. When in Limbo, Vince finds Phil the Reaper and has him take him to Monkey Hell to rescue Howard. Anyway, long story short (which involves really good hair, believe it or not), Howard and Vince escape and the natural balance is restored and the sick gorilla Bollo, dies.
I kid you not.
Man, this was a long one,sorry! It just looks so damn interesting and awesome and epic and all the cool stuff I love about “Supernatural”, except for those 2 things.
Anyhoo, I betcha nothing is what we think it’s going to be anyway! Because this is “Supernatural” and they enjoy screwing with our minds. Why we like them so, is beyond me!
I’ve given up on Carver ever previewing again…*wibble*.
So, what are you’re theories. Come on, I bet you have a bunch way better than mine!
Sound off in the comments. Here’s to an episode worthy of our anticipation!
Enjoy and I’ll see you later in reviewland.
-sweetondean
LOL – as usual I love this sweetondean . . . it is obvious that you are really excited about this one . . . love all the theorizing and then you scolding yourself for theorizing . . . gave me several good laughs . . . just what I needed before going off to college tonight! 🙂
okay, Spoiler alert!
I saw a synopsis by TV.com, that said Naomi needs Dean to find Benny. Now I’m not sure, if they only rephrased it strange, or if they have any more extra info than the CW let out in official synopsis.
I think that Dean needs (spoiler?) …………………………………….. Naomi to rescue Sam (maybe Sam is already trapped and Naomi has picked her moment) and she makes a deal with him that she gets Benny (for some reason, maybe she wants to know who told him how to get out of Purgatory, or maybe the vampirates have a hidden treasure tablet and Benny knows where it is) I don’t think Dean would do that sort of a trade if Naomi was going to kill / harm Benny (even to help Sam, that would be pretty cold. Also we did that once already this season with Grandpa Winchester) so he is being up-front with him about why he needs help. Maybe planning a double-cross for Naomi (which would want to work about a million times better than the one for Grandpa Winchester).
If the logic (mine) is complicated enough it doesn’t need to make sense 😀
Also why does Sam look like he is in Purgatory and not hell in some of those scenes?
*sigh* Or maybe it’s Door number 1 (I hate Door #1 and Door #2 isn’t much better).
Heh, since I was working earlier and skimming through your review (and chatting in the CBOX) (I wonder why I don’t get anything done?) I only just realized now that I am reading it properly that I only read half your preview Sweetondean I thought I had reached the end after the CHCH promo- so apologies, I have repeated your theory :-* And of course since you make it too it makes perfect sense! 😀
You know, there is one shot that looks as though Sam is in Purgatory. Maybe an unplanned detour….? Hence the need for Benny…? Regardless, can’t wait!
This makes me wonder too. Why would Dean go to Benny to get help with Sam if Sam was stuck in Hell? What could Benny do? He’s a monster, and hell isn’t for monsters. The only way Benny could help is if Sam is in Purgatory.
[quote]Unless…see now I’m seeing Sam running through tunnels in Hell being chased by a Pac-Man! Picking up souls along the way for points! I’d so play that![/quote]
LOL… me too! I love your spoiler-lite preview this week. It’s so full of questions that could have any answer. I don’t think I’ve been anticipating an episode as much as this since… well, wanting to see inside the MOL bunker. So, not that long ago really 😉
I also thought it might be a mini cliff-hanger for the mini-hiatus, but yeah, not sure about it now you’ve mentioned the Pac-Man episode.
Regarding the title, I assumed this was referencing the classic Robert De Niro film, Taxi Driver. It’s the film that a young Jodie Foster got nominated for an academy award. I actually haven’t watched it, but some scenes and lines are pretty famous. Like De Niro’s ‘You talkin’ to me’ line.
Also, I had a quick look at the synopsis and there is another De Niro line, where he shouts that she “will burn in hell like the rest of them”.
In the synopsis on IMDb it says that Travis (De Niro), a night shift taxi driver, is a loner who has strong opinions about what is right and wrong with humanity. He believes New York has deteriorated into a cesspool and decides he has to do whatever he can to make the world a better place, including saving a 12-year old girl (Foster) from her pimp and her life of prostitution.
I see a direct parallel here that Sam has to try to save an innocent soul, which is what Travis set out to do in Taxi Driver.
By the way, Travis was mentally unstable… and, although Sam seems fine now, he has had his problems in this area. Plus returning to hell for Sam has to affect his psyche, surely?
Here’s the link to IMDb [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075314/[/url]
Thanks for the preview SweetonDean. I’m SO looking forward to it. Very scared for Sammy 😥 and curious about the Naomi/Benny/Dean interactions 😕
Hey KG_SPN
I actually know that movie quite well! I once produced a 10 minute short feature on it (as part of a campaign for Scorsese and Coppola movies – I did Mean Streets and the Godfather trilogy too).
In very simplistic terms, Taxi Driver is a commentary on the isolationistic nature of society and the impact that this can have on a mind like Travis Bickle. Yes indeed he was a loner, but not by choice, he unsuccessfully sort out friendships and affection. His concept of right and wrong was deeply affected by this isolation and his need to save and in the end, seek retribution for what he saw as a travesty against someone who’s affections he sort. It ended up with him becoming psychotic in his approach. He was heading that way from day 1!
I can see the parallel with rescuing the innocent soul (though Jodi’s character was not onboard with the rescue), and in some regards, the isolation that Sam feels in these trials and in the world of a hunter, which is socially isolating…but Sam ain’t no Travis Bickle…even if the Trickster/Gabriel once referred to him as such (Mystery Spot).
You should watch Taxi Driver! It’s an excellent, if deeply disturbing, movie, with not only one of De Niro’s most iconic performances, but also one of his finest.
I’m sure though, the reference to Taxi Driver in the title is supposed to take us in this direction…and I was so going there, until I read the synopsis for “Bollo”!!!
I will definitely have to watch Taxi Driver one day. That’s another thing I love about Supernatural. It really makes me want to go out and watch all the films/shows that they reference! Which is only about a million or so… if only there were more hours in a day 😉
And I did like ‘The Mighty Boosh’ reference you found!
I would so love to be a fly on the wall in the writing/concept meetings at SPN. There are always such great references, as well as great episode titles.
Here’s another little tid-bit about that film. The most iconic moment of the movie, the infamous “Are you talkin’ to me?” line was actually a moment between takes where DeNiro was improvising line readings in the mirror because he was trying to figure out the best way say or the most appropriate inflection for the line. Scorsese saw him practicing and just turned the camera on and voila! Genius. It takes a genius to see genius happening and then catch it on film. 😉
I just realised, I loved the way you use “simplistic terms” and “isolationistic nature of society” in the same sentence, sweetondean.
I’d like to know why there is suddenly someone who can take a person into hell. What?
Traditionally there is a ferryman who takes the souls across the river Styx to Hades. His name is Charon apparently (I just found that out today).
Honestly I hadn’t thought it through very carefully so I assumed that the ‘Taxi Driver’ was a modern day ferryman. The theory about Travis Bickle (in a skirt) makes more sense though since it references Mystery Spot and specifically Sam.
EDIT: I don’t know anything about the band Styx though there might be some of their stuff in the episode (because, why not?) … how about from ‘the serpent is rising? Or maybe ‘the grand illusion?’
You’ve just reminded me of a great song – Don’t pay the ferryman by Chris De Burgh. Here are the lyrics… note the reference to the wild dog and the hooded man. I’ve never thought about this song in relation to hell. Now, I’m even more worried for Sam! Don’t pay the ferryman (taxi driver) 😮
It was late at night on the open road,
Speeding like a man on the run,
A lifetime spent preparing for the journey;
He is closer now and the search is on,
Reading from a map in the mind,
Yes, there’s the ragged hill,
And there’s the boat on the river,
And when the rain came down,
He heard a wild dog howl.
There were voices in the night – “Don’t do it!”
Voices out of sight – “Don’t do it!
“Too many men have failed before;
Whatever you do:
Don’t pay the ferryman;
Don’t even fix a price.
Don’t pay the ferryman;
Until he gets you to the other side!”
In the rolling mist, then he gets on board,
Now there’ll be no turning back,
Beware that hooded old man at the rudder.
And then the lightning flashed, and the thunder roared,
And people calling out his name,
And dancing bones that jabbered and a-moaned on the water;
And then the ferryman said,
“There is trouble ahead,
So you must pay me now,” – “Don’t do it!”
“You must pay me now,” – “Don’t do it!”
And still that voice came from beyond,
“Whatever you do:
Don’t pay the ferryman;
Don’t even fix a price.
Don’t pay the ferryman;
Until he gets you to the other side!”
LOL snap, I’ve been singing that all afternoon 😀 I didn’t mention it because I wasn’t sure how well known C De B is here (apart from Lady in Red that is).
I went through a Chris de Burgh phase… love his music and went to a couple of concerts when he toured Australia. Lady in red (which SPN used in Tall Tales lol) is my least favourite of his songs. Don’t pay the ferryman is one of my favourites. I think I might have to find one of his CDs to listen to now 😆
Do you know the song Spanish Train? It’s about the Devil and the Lord playing poker for the souls of the dead. He describes the devil as having a twinkle in his eye, which sounds just like Crowley 😉
Yes, I am word-perfect on that too … oh dear what with admitting to being an ABBA fan last week there is no hope for me 😀
I am really not a fan of LIR so there is that…
😆
I had to go look up LIR… never heard of them. But I’ve been told by a good friend that I shouldn’t speak about certain performers that I’ve liked over the years. For example, I’d never tell Balthazar that I actually don’t mind some of Celine Dion’s music 😉
LOL, oops, yes there is a band called Lir 😀 I meant Lady in Red though – my bad!
Haha. I totally misunderstood the abbreviation. I’ve got the flu today, so that’s my excuse 😆
KG_SPN, I don’t know a lot about Chris de Burgh, but I know Spanish Train. I find it a rather disturbing song, if you listen to the lyrics (which I’m pretty sure I can still recite almost word for word-don’t ask).
Not sure how he got from the song you quoted and Spanish Train, to Lady in Red, which only makes me smile because, slow-dancing aliens! And, really, how often do you get to say that?
LOL this show makes us say (and smile) about the most ridiculous things. If someone who doesn’t watch SPN overheard me say ”I can’t wait to see what Hell looks like”, I can’t imagine what they’d be thinking 😉
Chris de Burgh is actually a brilliant storyteller. He’s live version of Spanish Train is worth the price of the concert ticket. So that’s why it’s funny to me that his most successful song, The Lady in Red, is my least favourite song, except for now it makes me smile because of slow-dancing aliens 😆
Yeah, I remember the way several members of my family looked at me when I got really excited about 7-foot, suicidal teddy bear!
I’ve never been a fan of shmoopy romance stuff (well, unless there are slow-dancing aliens involved-sorry it makes me smile, too), so I definitely like the, I guess, darker themes of some of his other stuff better. Probably why I’m a fan of Supernatural, too, and not something like Gossip Girl.
KG_SPN, ditto … this song always pops into my head everytime the Ferryman is mentioned. And Sam is way too smart to pay the Ferryman!
I did wonder the same thing Jo. Didn’t it take Castiel to get Dean out, and didn’t it take Castiel to get Sam out, yet it was so difficult that crucial parts of him got left behind? Didn’t it take Death himself to retrieve Sam’s soul? And didn’t Naomi say that it took an “incursion of angels” to get Castiel out of purgatory? It seems to be getting easier to get in and out of these tough places these days. Seems like you can waltz right in. But, maybe because each of the Winchesters have been there before, it’s easier for them…..? I’m going with that.
But Death had no problem at all and Sam is with a reaper, maybe the rules don’t apply to them either, especially for a trial., Death may be required to help.
Also getting into hell is likely a lot easier than getting out.
Well THAT’S probably true. I am sure Crowley would be more than happy to welcome any sucker who actually WANTS to enter hell. Only the Winchesters……
Maybe the rules are different for reapers. They are the guys who take you “into the light” or whatever. Though, I don’t think it’s ever been implied that they’re invloved when a soul gets sent to hell.
Though when Dean was Death and working with Tessa, they took that guy who was robbing the store and there was definitely an implication he was going downstairs, so maybe they take you where ever your soul is destinied to go?
Oh, yes, I think I do recall that. I think I was thinking more along the lines of people who’ve made deals. In that case, don’t the Hellhounds take their souls downstairs? Of course, making a deal isn’t necessarily the only way you can get to hell, I guess, so that’s probably when reapers are involved.
Also, if it is Bobby down there, would the implication here be that ghosts go to Hell, or would it just be that Bobby might be a special case, if he is indeed the soul that needs rescuing?
Huh. I like it when they make me think…
I like it when they make me think, too. There’s a lot of good thinky thoughts in the comments on this articles!
Good point! Sam could have used someone like that in time between S3 and S4. I wonder if he ever tried contacting a reaper? I also wonder what the effects of hell will be on someone who is still alive. I’m glad we don’t have to wait too much longer to find out!
I really like the reapers, always have! I’m glad to see another one.
When Dean contacted Tessa, in order to get to Death, he had to die first, so I’m glad to see they’ve figured out another way to contact a reaper!!!
I wonder if Sam will be the first living human to go to Hell??? Oh man….
This episode is killing us before it’s even started!
[quote]This episode is killing us before it’s even started![/quote]
LOL! A lot of debate here for an episode that wasn’t aired yet!
But Sam was alive the first time he went to hell. Dean died before going to hell in season 3, but both Sam and Adam were fully alive when they fell into the pit. I think that the show probably won’t distinguish between them at this late stage.
I am looking forward to it. I hope its door #1. I dont want Benny getting stuck in Hell for helping Sam. The boys need every friend they can get now. It also looks like Jensen hair has finally gotten a much needed trim on top. I thought his flip was getting way too high. : )
Not me. I am loving his hair longer. I wish they would let the sides & back grow out like in season one. It was fuller. He has such beautiful hair any way they cut it!!
I’m with you Penny! Love his hair with a bit of length…but then, love it short too. There is no hope for me, obviously. 😉
I’ve actually commenting during the past couple episodes, “why are they cutting Jensen’s hair like that?” My bf responded by saying it’s a very “military” style haircut. I agree, and I get it, because it makes him look sharper/harsher/harder/older and that fits. But I do miss the softer cuts of former years.
I will join that club! No hope for me as well. It started with admiration (On Dark Angel). Turned into recognition and a nice warm feeling (by the time he was on Smallville). To full on LOVE and, my family would say obsession (Supernatural). I will get to see him one more time in Dallas; HAIR AND ALL!!!
I love his longer hair too Penny Jamie. Sometimes they cut it too short, especially at the sides. Loved his full Purgatory hair (plus grime, long legs,….etc.).
Well I am always wrong when I make predictions but here goes:
There is 0% possibility that they are going to kill off Benny in any permanent way.
About a 10% possibility that Benny could end up in hell since as far as we know he would bounce off hell and end up in Purgatory.
Only about 42.3% (approximately) chance that the episode ends with Benny agreeing to let Dean cut off his head so that he can go to Purgatory and rescue Sam (who is stuck there for some reason) and Sam will be able to (try to) bring him out of Purgatory the same way Dean and Benny got out.
Where Bobby is involved in all this I can’t begin to guess 😀
I definitely think I win 42.3% of a prize 😀
Wow eilf, you are definitely a psychic wonder. 😮
Well as someone pointed out I come up with so many guesses I have to be right once in a while! 😀
Well, it sure looks like a FULL episode any way. No way it can’t be good with so much going on. I, for one, am going to be glad to see Benny again. And our surprise friend with the hat!
Sidebar, everyone has been saying since Swan Song that Chuck was God; but since he was a writer, I think it would be more fun if he was Metatron. They could bring him back that way also. I am not a writer, so it won’t happen; but I think it would be interesting
[quote]Crowley made sure that Bobby didn’t “fly the friendly skiesâ€. I guess with God parts unknown, he has that kind of swing! [/quote]
This actually follows a quick piece of continuity. From TMWWBK
[quote]Castiel: Whose Heaven is this?
Raphael: Ken Lay’s. I’m borrowing it.
Castiel: I still question his admittance here.
Raphael: He’s devout. Trumps everything.[/quote]
This always indicated to me that heaven had leeway on letting people in, so Hell may have some sway as well. If Crowley is more than he seems, he may have had deals in place in heaven for anyone. Bobby did kill his father and sell his soul, even though the deal was voided. Both actions could give Crowley and argument that Bobby earned Hell, especially if he got a message to his old friend Naomi.
Good points percysowner, I’d forgotten that conversation about the borrowing Heaven.
Don’t forget i think it was Vegas Con that Jensen said there was a scene with him and Ty that is emotional or turned out that way not sure written that way just the way the actors played it out. So be curious how that plays out.
Couple things to keep in mind…
First, Hell has changed since Dean’s been there. If you recall from S6 – Crowley’s changed things. His version of torture was people standing in line for eternity, never reaching their destination. But while that might be an interesting and even welcome (considering) application of a bad joke, we can’t believe that’s all there is. Crowley is a demon. We’ve seen him revel in torture. So, my personal prediction would be that this may be a place in Hell reserved for certain souls Crowley’s hates, or more likely, some kind of POW-type area where souls that are meant for heaven are kept.
Second, I doubt Bobby will return to the show. If he indeed is the one Sam saves, he doesn’t have a body to return to. Sam and Dean burnt it. Returning Bobby to his earthly Bobby would mess with my understanding of the show’s canon regarding souls and death, etc. So if Sam releases him, it will likely be to heaven. It would be great to see him again, regardless, IMO.
Finally, my prediction: Naomi is the one who alerts Dean to Sam’s predicament in Hell (or Purgatory…perhaps they stuck there on a drive-through. And with the show’s habit of having one brother follow in the other brother’s footsteps – Dean went to hell, then Sam went to hell, etc. – it’s a fair bet that Sam might end up there as well, to keep things equal). Naomi and Crowley are at odds, and the Winchesters already messed with her plans by turning Castiel against her. Her next best move would be to try and get them working for her. Helping save Sam would put Dean in Naomi’s debt (or so she might assume), and in a perfect position to help her eliminate her competition, Crowley. How that may play out is anyone’s guess.
We know that Benny’s back – I’m excited for that. I love his character, whether he turns out to be good or evil. I have no idea what to expect here. 🙂
Looking forward to this episode!
Quoting Bamboo,
Second, I doubt Bobby will return to the show. If he indeed is the one Sam saves, he doesn’t have a body to return to. Sam and Dean burnt it. Returning Bobby to his earthly Bobby would mess with my understanding of the show’s canon regarding souls and death, etc. So if Sam releases him, it will likely be to heaven. It would be great to see him again, regardless, IMO.
Yes, but the show has already blown that bit of canon out of the water by resurrection Adam. Sam and Dean burned his body at the end of Jump The Shark, but that didn’t stop the angels from reviving him in PONR in his original and fully restored, unburned body. If they can do it for Adam, the can do it for Bobby.
No quotes! Damn! The first bit is a quote 😳
I find the background signs in the preview intriguing. “Jesus saves, all are welcome” behind the taxi driver. “Psychic” behind Sam. And I think it is an adult bookstore behind Dean, that’s what the old man looks to be standing in front of. I think he will be Metatron. I wonder if Naomi needing Benny is related to her past dalliance with Crowley?
[quote]I find the background signs in the preview intriguing. “Jesus saves, all are welcome” behind the taxi driver. “Psychic” behind Sam. And I think it is an adult bookstore behind Dean, that’s what the old man looks to be standing in front of. I think he will be Metatron. I wonder if Naomi needing Benny is related to her past dalliance with Crowley?[/quote]
Great catches! I dig the idea of Metatron too.
Great observations there! I went back to look after reading your comment. The attention to detail in SPN is wonderful and I think you might be right about Metatron. Who else could it be? Except for maybe a spy for Naomi or Crowley. But I like the idea of Metatron better 😕
Just a couple of thoughts/speculations-Bobby could just be a ruse to get Sam into Hell. I love Bobby but I don’t think of him as an innocent soul. Adam, maybe. No one’s really mentioned him. I imagine he would be much harder to free seeing that he’s in the cage with Lucifer but I think they owe it to him. If not in this trial then hopefully before they shut the gates of Hell permanently! The other thing is the reaper said he’d return Sam in 24 hours. 24 hours Earth time would be about 4 months Hell time. Not a nice thought. 😥
Oh, you’re right. I forgot about the difference between hell time & real time. I wonder if Sam has reflected on that or if he’s just trying to ignore it. He is certainly putting on a brave face in the sneak peek 🙁
I am really, really looking forward to this ep! I too hope that those two aspects you mention Sweetondean don’t disrupt the awesomeness. Why oh why couldn’t Ben Edlund have written this ep?
Possibly spoilery speculation………!
I am very suspicious of the whole Bobby is the soul thing. Why would the PTB reveal such a crucial and important plot point in a preview???? That’s like giving away the whole ball game. No, my speculation is that something else is going on. I have no idea what, but something. I only hope that whatever it is, that a loophole can be found to get Bobby back from Hell/Heaven/Purgatory… where ever he is so that he can pick up where he left off, and maybe make Garth his partner in crime. I sooooo want Bobby back. 😥
I think it’s a ruse! I don’t think it will be Bobby in hell… it’s more likely to be a trap for Sam to distract him and keep him down there for longer searching for someone who’s not even there (maybe). Plus, we’ve already had the surprise return of Bobby as a ghost and it would be a bit repetitive to do it again.
However, if they do go down that track, I hope it’s simply a matter of releasing Bobby’s soul to heaven. As much as I love Bobby, it’s a bit convenient to have him come back to life again considering he’s died, returned as a ghost, was vanquished, and then ended up in hell.
But I’d really like to know that he’s at peace :sigh:
Maybe the Hell experience is in the head? I suppose Hell for Sam could be seeing what Dean went through in Purgatory? It might explain why Sam seems to be in Purgatory, he is getting to see it first hand.
But then Benny wouldn’t be able to help, monsters don’t go to,
Hell
Humans and angels aren’t supposed to be in Purg. either but they were. Not naturally. Sam and Dean were in hell and they were not supposed to be there. I guess you can visit other realms or be sent there…..?? Not sure.
I want this to be Bobby so bad!!!! But I think it’s a ruse. That the ferryman is playing them or has been mislead by Crowley.
I have no clue on the whole Benny and rescuing Sam thing at all.I kind of like #1 because I like Benny. But I think a twist could be a lot more interesting story wise maybe.
Agree Kelly. + I am glad to see you back 🙂
Awww. Glad to be back. I was having a bad week, but I’m better, thanks. I actually got a lot stuff I’d been procrastinating on done. I was being so good that I forced myself not to start posting until I had finished all the odds and ends I’d put off. Cause I knew once started I’d get sucked back in. Missed arguing with you though 😆
I see our Dr Pepper war got kaz1 accidentally reprimanded. I haven’t got through all the posts yet but I hope she saw it was just a misunderstanding and came back. I’d hate to lose her posts.
She hasn’t come back yet Kelly, I am sad about that. She felt so bad. I miss her. I was hoping someone could contact her. Huge misunderstanding! I don’t remembering arguing with you, maybe I just thought you were agreeing 🙂
Leah, I’m so sorry to here that. Maybe she is busy and taking a short break too. I really hope so. 😥
It’s true out little group has a tendency to agree. But I believe you said you like CHERRY Dr. Pepper. That’s just all kinds of wrong. 😀
Nope not me. I am Diet DP. nappi? I was fond of the LTD edition of chocolate cherry back in the day! Probably wrong also 😉
Sorry guys for my slow answer. I swear I’ve been in catch up mode since I got back from vacation.
I did contact Kaz via email. I’ve told her it was all a misunderstanding and she is more than welcome to come back. Her account is still active and there when she wants to use it. I haven’t heard back, but I’m hoping she read it.
Aww. Thanks for doing that, Alice. I really appreciate it. She may just be really busy. I know you are too, so thanks for taking the time.
Thank you so much Alice, I do hope she returns!
Ah! That’s great Alice, thank you so much for doing that! Hopefully we’ll hear from her soon.
Jumping in here! Hi Kelly, welcome back! Glad you are feeling better. Yes, I feel bad about kaz1 too… I guess her original “insult” was directed at me, although I never even saw it!….. 😥
I really hope that she ventures back and sees that it was all just a harmless mistake. Maybe the mod’s could send her a message? They must have her email……
I hope kaz will be back too. Though I don’t think she posts everyday, so maybe she’s just busy.
Leah, there was cherry chocolate Dr. Pepper? Even [i]I[/i] might have been tempted to try that. Maybe. 😕
It’s pretty hard to conceive of something more revolting than Dr. Pepper, but I’m afraid chocolate cherry succeeds. Just…. Ick and ewww! And this from a confirmed chocoholic. 😮
Yeah, I don’t know, it’s definitely just the cherry chocolate thing that caught my eye, though mixed with Dr. Pepper? I’m not sure…
(I think they’re to corrupt us, E :-* )
[i]trying[/i] to corrupt us, dammit.
E, Leah, PaintedWolf, even[b] I[/b] think chocolate cherry Dr.Pepper sounds disgusting. I can do cherry. Really like vanilla especially in diet, although that defeats the purpose. But I can’t do chocolate in pop.
Leah, you were diet? Hmm who was cherry? maybe nappi, But she usually stays on topic better than I do. Have you tried 10, it my current obsession.
I know kaz has says she has a lot going on so maybe she is just busy right now. That’s what I’m hoping.
Hey now Kelly, no dissention in the ranks. We Peppers must stick together!! In honor of Kaz, she enjoyed this all so much, though when (keeping a good thought) she returns she might never bring it up again…. :sigh:
Aw, I’m hoping that’s not the case, even though, you know, I’m still on the other side (come over, we have cookies!)
Yes PaintedWolf and it was awesome!! Don’t listen to E. It was a blend of three great things cherries, chocolate, DP. How could it NOT be yummy. 😀
😡 😮
Well, [i]two[/i] great things, anyway. 😉
So we have the boys seperated which I find intresting now Dean knows where Sam is; but even though Sam is on a mission he has to know that dean is not going to just stay up there if he can help free bobby. Help him fly the friendly skies. I find it intresting that Dean will be visited by Naiomi she has to wonder what it is about Dean that Castiel is so loyal to that he couldn’t kill him. And also Dean gets to visit with Benny and figure out a way to get Sam out of hell. But not sure how he gets stuck because he has 24 hours to complete the test right unless someone tells dean he is stuck to make the next trial fail??? And also they owe a reaper which makes things intresting.
Interesting note: ‘Gate to Hell found’ is trending on Yahoo. A poisonous cave has been unearthed in Turkey, believed in Greco-Roman mythology to be the portal to hell. Timely find!
I think Sam’s going to be stuck in Hell or Purgatory for a while, and that’s going to be the cliff hanger we are left with. I say this, because in episode 21 “The Great Escapist” there’s a cast member titled “Demon-Sam” which makes me go ‘What?’ I just hope that he actually finishes the second trial, and possibly saves Bobby in the process.
Demon-Sam freaks me out and kind of excites me at the same time. I’d actually love it if Jared got to play another aspect of Sam. He’s done amazing jobs with all the others.
Lloyd, I’m not sure about Sam being stuck in Hell or Purgatory because they don’t like to separate the brothers on screen for several episodes. That’s why we got all the flashback this year.
PaintedWolf, Jared completely blew me away as demonMeg but if it’s demonSam with someone else playing him than if it is OUR Sam that would mean it was Sam possessing someone else. Instead of Jared with black eyes. How could Sam possessed someone else. That’s a disturbing thought. So I don’t know.
I’m simultaneously really worried and extremely excited about this episode.
I’m loving everyone’s ideas and theories! Way to go!
My brain is swimming from all the speculation. There are so many possibilities. I also think the Bobby thing is a ruse. Why would they hint it? Because it’s sweeps week folks!!!
But who knows.
Them owing a reaper just sounds like so much bad!!!!!!
Definitely Purgatory looking scenes. Maybe that’s his way out. It is the middle ground. Back door from Purgatory to Hell and that’s why Dean needs Benny. A little Catholic doctrine. From Purgatory I’m pretty sure you can go either direction, depending on atonement. Expecting a great scene as Jensen mentioned ‘going there’ as kind of an accident while filming.
I think you’re right, winmomwannabe. Traditionally, Purgatory is supposed to be a place of judgment? I think. Where souls would wait to be sent to Heaven or Hell, depending on their acts in life. Although, Show never really goes traditional anything, but it would be interesting (freaking terrifying more like) if Sam has to go through Purgatory to get back to Earth.
Pretty sure they’re gonna leave us with one of those tummy-twisting cliffhangers going into mini-hellatus though.
Hi Sweetondean
Interesting choices or theories from you and everyone here. I thought I would add a possibility. Maybe Naomi informs Dean that Sam is trapped in hell and that Bobby being there was just a ruse.
So Dean goes to Benny to have him bite him, so he can enter to Hell himself. Benny more than likely refuses to turn him and offers to go himself.
But it would have been interesting to see the brothers working together in Hell.
Also I wanted to add when I first saw the clip with the brothers talking to the Taxi Driver I thought of the scene in Scrooged. I was picturing Sam stuck with a crazy ass driver taking him to hell. 😀
1) I don’t want Benny saving Sam and have Sam be wrong AGAIN.
2)I hope Naomi comes to talk to Dean about something else other than Sam’s situation.
[quote]1) I don’t want Benny saving Sam and have Sam be wrong AGAIN.
2)I hope Naomi comes to talk to Dean about something else other than Sam’s situation.[/quote]
God, I so agree with you on 1. Why can’t Sam simply succeed at something for a change without Dean sending Edward Cullin to save him. Just let SAM be the capable hunter we know he is. Let him be capable of doing the job at hand for a change.
[quote][quote]1) I don’t want Benny saving Sam and have Sam be wrong AGAIN.
2)I hope Naomi comes to talk to Dean about something else other than Sam’s situation.[/quote]
God, I so agree with you on 1. Why can’t Sam simply succeed at something for a change without Dean sending Edward Cullin to save him. Just let SAM be the capable hunter we know he is. Let him be capable of doing the job at hand for a change.[/quote]
LOL… Oh no… Sam’s gonna be in full on damsel-in-distress mode the rest of the season 😉
But Sam IS successful! He killed the hell hound. Fase 1 completed. And I’m sure he will succeed oin completing fase 2: rescuing the innocent soul from hell. He might need help, however, getting out from God knows where he got stuck in in order to complete the task. Enters Dean! Team work, people! Sam completes the trials WITH the help of his brother, by whatever means necessary, even if he has to beg/use/sacrifice Benny for it. Oh, God! 😥
[quote]But Sam IS successful! He killed the hell hound. Fase 1 completed. And I’m sure he will succeed oin completing fase 2: rescuing the innocent soul from hell. He might need help, however, getting out from God knows where he got stuck in in order to complete the task. Enters Dean! Team work, people! Sam completes the trials WITH the help of his brother, by whatever means necessary, even if he has to beg/use/sacrifice Benny for it. Oh, God! :cry:[/quote]
I think it takes two to get the trials done. It took them both to get the hellhound in one spot granted Dean turned into bait but it worked and Sam said the spell. As long as Sam says the spell after completeing it doesn’t matter how many people get him to the point of completion. I think he wants to show Dean he can do it. And him going to hell alone to get the soul was just plain crazy. I would not leave a determined Dean up top all by himself especially when Bobbys name gets flung around and if something happens that Sam can’t get out within that time where does that leave Dean?? It should be team work on closing gates of hell. And fact now they owe a reaper something is not good. Sam should have let Dean come with him. Now Dean is going to worry about Sam and be approached by Naomi and well he gets to visit and old friend. I wonder if Naomi will tell him that she helped get him out of purgatory by telling Benny how to get out guessing Benny was suppost to get Dean out wondering if Cass was also part of the bargaining? But they had to be angels telling him way out?? Wonder how much Dean will trust Naiomi that will be intresting to see that she wanted Dean dead.
Now wait a minute here. Dean threatened to CRIPPLE Sam to keep him from helping with the trials. He was going to shoot him in the leg to stop him, but that’s okay? The tablet says one person has to do the trials. Sam didn’t write the tablet, he’s just going by what the tablet says has to be done.
(Edited by Alice – I read over the other posts in this thread here. You’re putting words in other people’s mouths. That’s a big rule of ours you’re violating. Please tone it down).
maybe it is a strategy. No use both of them getting stuck. Dean has to be out in order to help Sam if something goes wrong (IF? No, something always goes wrong).
[quote]Now wait a minute here. Dean threatened to CRIPPLE Sam to keep him from helping with the trials. He was going to shoot him in the leg to stop him, but that’s okay? The tablet says one person has to do the trials. Sam didn’t write the tablet, he’s just going by what the tablet says has to be done.
Why is Sam stupid to do the trials the way he has been told is correct and Dean wasn’t when he was absolutely determined to do them alone? Sam is risking his life and his soul to close the Gates of Hell, why are Dean’s feelings more important than that? For me, Dean being worried is the least important issue.[/quote]
One its hell and two I don’t know its hell. I would think its one thing to kill a devil dog its another thing to travel to hell to do it when not both of them are there. Granted Sam gets stuck there then Dean is going to have to figure out a way to help from uptop. To me it just seems as long as Sam gets the task done thats the important thing. And Dean wanting to keep Sam safe and make sure he gets back to his happy normal life living with Amelia and chugging down Viagra. Dean sees himself dying in a hunt so he would rather have been doing the trials and sam be happy with Amelia and tiny sams around him. Thats Deans perfect world. And Sam wants normal. So to me I would shot him in the leg to just so Dean could have done the trials and he would have done exactly what Dean is doing which is trying to help especially when it comes to bobby and the trials and if he knew deans condition. So tables turned Sam would do what Dean is trying to do help. JMO
It isnt about Dean not being there but Dean cant be there. Wether it was Sam or Dean doing the trials it surely has been stipulated only one can do the trial’s . It isnt or at least I dont think it is a either / or situation but this is the way it is as designed by God .
[quote][quote]But Sam IS successful! He killed the hell hound. Fase 1 completed. And I’m sure he will succeed oin completing fase 2: rescuing the innocent soul from hell. He might need help, however, getting out from God knows where he got stuck in in order to complete the task. Enters Dean! Team work, people! Sam completes the trials WITH the help of his brother, by whatever means necessary, even if he has to beg/use/sacrifice Benny for it. Oh, God! :cry:[/quote]
I think it takes two to get the trials done. It took them both to get the hellhound in one spot granted Dean turned into bait but it worked and Sam said the spell. As long as Sam says the spell after completeing it doesn’t matter how many people get him to the point of completion. I think he wants to show Dean he can do it. And him going to hell alone to get the soul was just plain crazy. I would not leave a determined Dean up top all by himself especially when Bobbys name gets flung around and if something happens that Sam can’t get out within that time where does that leave Dean?? It should be team work on closing gates of hell. And fact now they owe a reaper something is not good. Sam should have let Dean come with him. Now Dean is going to worry about Sam and be approached by Naomi and well he gets to visit and old friend. I wonder if Naomi will tell him that she helped get him out of purgatory by telling Benny how to get out guessing Benny was suppost to get Dean out wondering if Cass was also part of the bargaining? But they had to be angels telling him way out?? Wonder how much Dean will trust Naiomi that will be intresting to see that she wanted Dean dead.[/quote]
No, the trials have to be done by one person… didn’t Kevin say that in Trial and Error? And yes, of course Dean is going to help in any way he can, just not with the actual trials. As far as Naomi goes, I can’t see him trusting her but, as with Meg and Cas helping to find Lucifer’s crypt, Dean probably doesn’t have much of a choice.
[quote][quote][quote]But Sam IS successful! He killed the hell hound. Fase 1 completed. And I’m sure he will succeed oin completing fase 2: rescuing the innocent soul from hell. He might need help, however, getting out from God knows where he got stuck in in order to complete the task. Enters Dean! Team work, people! Sam completes the trials WITH the help of his brother, by whatever means necessary, even if he has to beg/use/sacrifice Benny for it. Oh, God! :cry:[/quote]
I think it takes two to get the trials done. It took them both to get the hellhound in one spot granted Dean turned into bait but it worked and Sam said the spell. As long as Sam says the spell after completeing it doesn’t matter how many people get him to the point of completion. I think he wants to show Dean he can do it. And him going to hell alone to get the soul was just plain crazy. I would not leave a determined Dean up top all by himself especially when Bobbys name gets flung around and if something happens that Sam can’t get out within that time where does that leave Dean?? It should be team work on closing gates of hell. And fact now they owe a reaper something is not good. Sam should have let Dean come with him. Now Dean is going to worry about Sam and be approached by Naomi and well he gets to visit and old friend. I wonder if Naomi will tell him that she helped get him out of purgatory by telling Benny how to get out guessing Benny was suppost to get Dean out wondering if Cass was also part of the bargaining? But they had to be angels telling him way out?? Wonder how much Dean will trust Naiomi that will be intresting to see that she wanted Dean dead.[/quote]
No, the trials have to be done by one person… didn’t Kevin say that in Trial and Error? And yes, of course Dean is going to help in any way he can, just not with the actual trials. As far as Naomi goes, I can’t see him trusting her but, as with Meg and Cas helping to find Lucifer’s crypt, Dean probably doesn’t have much of a choice.[/quote]
Sam can do the trial but its not like Dean can’t help as long as Sam does whatever it takes like getting soul out I am sure if Dean where down there they would be checking to see who the innocent soul is then saying its bobby I think Dean just wanted to get Bobby out of hell. Innocent or not. But Sam can do the trial and say the thing on the paper he just has to do those things help from whomever I am sure is no problem as long as does not interfear with Sam getting soul out and saying the enochien thingie. JMO
Dean’s help I can take. Sam having to come out of Hell or where ever and grovel about how WRONG he was about Benny. How Dean is always right in his view of monsters. Amy deserved to be killed. The rugaru guy couldn’t be saved when Sam wanted to try. Lenore turned bad after Sam distrusted her. Ruby couldn’t be trusted because Sam made the call, but MEG, who killed Caleb and Pastor Jim, possessed Sam, and killed Jo and Ellen is fine because Dean decidess to give her his seal of approval. The storyline that if Dean says a supernatural being is okay, then they are hunky dory fine makes me crazy. That is my issue and I totally expect to be infuriated by this story by the end.
Plus Sam hasn’t really succeeded. He’s becoming ill and was caught in a classic catch 22. If he told Dean he was ill Dean immediately starts telling Sam that he is to weak to help Dean with the angel tablet, too weak to complete the tasks by himself THE WAY THE TABLET SAYS THEY HAVE TO BE COMPLETED. If Sam hides what is going on, Dean gets to tell him he is a liar. AND they are making it quite clear that Sam needs BENNY, BENNY who he doesn’t trust to complete his trials. Maybe they can get Krissy to help with trial number 3 so Sam the incompetent can be proven to be not good enough.
[quote]He’s becoming ill and was caught in a classic catch 22. If he told Dean he was ill Dean immediately starts telling Sam that he is to weak to help Dean with the angel tablet, too weak to complete the tasks by himself THE WAY THE TABLET SAYS THEY HAVE TO BE COMPLETED. If Sam hides what is going on, Dean gets to tell him he is a liar.[/quote]
Aren’t they pass it? I though they agreed on Sam telling Dean how much the trials were affecting him and Dean vowing to compensate that by ‘carrying Sam’, helping him to complete the trials by any means necessary – but no completing FOR Sam.
I’m not sure how becoming ill is failing. It’s not Sam’s fault, it’s part of the trials and Sam is taking this illness, or whatever it is, as a real hero. He is still going to take the trials, no matter the cost.
Dean is not ALWAYS right. He was wrong to trust Cas in S06. He didn’t see it, it took Sam and Bobby to slowly try to convince him something was wrong. And he was wrong again to not trust that Cas could be reached as Godstiel. Sam was the one to believe in him and he was right.
[quote][quote]He’s becoming ill and was caught in a classic catch 22. If he told Dean he was ill Dean immediately starts telling Sam that he is to weak to help Dean with the angel tablet, too weak to complete the tasks by himself THE WAY THE TABLET SAYS THEY HAVE TO BE COMPLETED. If Sam hides what is going on, Dean gets to tell him he is a liar.[/quote]
Aren’t they pass it? I though they agreed on Sam telling Dean how much the trials were affecting him and Dean vowing to compensate that by ‘carrying Sam’, helping him to complete the trials by any means necessary – but no completing FOR Sam.
I’m not sure how becoming ill is failing. It’s not Sam’s fault, it’s part of the trials and Sam is taking this illness, or whatever it is, as a real hero. He is still going to take the trials, no matter the cost.
Dean is not ALWAYS right. He was wrong to trust Cas in S06. He didn’t see it, it took Sam and Bobby to slowly try to convince him something was wrong. And he was wrong again to not trust that Cas could be reached as Godstiel. Sam was the one to believe in him and he was right.[/quote]
Well sam has been bested by demons as of late so him just having a demon knife down in hell is not going to help much and I like Benny I like to see Sam wrong because he is wrong. I don’t want to see anything happen to Benny I like Ty and I like how Benny and Dean friendship. Its very odd one being monster and hunter. And I would like to see explored more in S9. And I don’t think Dean wanted to believe Cass was bad but he was willing to go along with Bobby and Sam’s suspecions. This certainly will be intresting eps to see if this was actual trial or just a way for Crowley to seperate the boys. He is good at that.
Now I know where we differ, I don’t like Benny and don’t like to see Sam be wrong because he is not. I would gladly like to see Benny’s head served up in a platter as he is wrong.
anonymousN, why you don’t like Benny? Don’t get me wrong, it is not a criticism I don’t like Chrissy (I don’t hate her, though), because I think she needs a slice of humble pie (I know, she is a teen, but still! the atitude!) and I didn’t like S07 Garth, for example, because I was in awe he was still alive – I can’t believe someone that phisically fragil would be alive fighting monsters, working in the field. His ‘Bobby’ mission and checking in on people is more adequate.
What are your reasons for not liking Benny?
I don’t like Benny because he is again primarily a character who relates to Dean like Cas,Krissy,Charlie and Garth.I would like to see someone who primarily comes to their lives through Sam and is not someone else’s wife or is evil or dies.Already there is an imbalance in the character distribution.
[quote]Dean is not ALWAYS right. He was wrong to trust Cas in S06. He didn’t see it, it took Sam and Bobby to slowly try to convince him something was wrong. And he was wrong again to not trust that Cas could be reached as Godstiel. Sam was the one to believe in him and he was right.[/quote]But Cas is alive,isn’t he?
Sorry, I don’t understand – what being alive has an influence on being right or wrong?
It populates their world only with Dean’s friends .
[quote]AND they are making it quite clear that Sam needs BENNY, BENNY who he doesn’t trust to complete his trials. Maybe they can get Krissy to help with trial number 3 so Sam the incompetent can be proven to be not good enough.[/quote]
Do Sam and Dean have to do everything by themselves? They had plenty of help from improbable beings before: Gabriel, Balthazar, Meg, Death, even Crowley… Not exactly trustworthy allies. I believe they show their worth not only for what they do themselves, but for how they are able to influence others to take their side.
[quote]Dean’s help I can take. Sam having to come out of Hell or where ever and grovel about how WRONG he was about Benny. How Dean is always right in his view of monsters. Amy deserved to be killed. The rugaru guy couldn’t be saved when Sam wanted to try. Lenore turned bad after Sam distrusted her. Ruby couldn’t be trusted because Sam made the call, but MEG, who killed Caleb and Pastor Jim, possessed Sam, and killed Jo and Ellen is fine because Dean decidess to give her his seal of approval. The storyline that if Dean says a supernatural being is okay, then they are hunky dory fine makes me crazy. That is my issue and I totally expect to be infuriated by this story by the end.[/quote]I share the same sentiments
Meg wasn’t ok because Dean said so. Sam trusted Meg first to help coerce Crowley into getting Sam’s soul back. Dean was against teaming up with her. Later that episode Cas kissed Meg (making her feel clean) and from that point on she killed the hell hounds to protect the guys, tortured Crowley for them. The next season when Cas didn’t know who he was she came back and protected him. Sure she had self-protection interests going on at the same time but if you look at her actions from the point Sam trusted her and Cas kissed her she’s been trustworthy. Dean was the last one on board.
[quote]The rugaru guy couldn’t be saved when Sam wanted to try. Lenore turned bad after Sam distrusted her. [/quote]
percysowner, your examples here actually prove to me that both Sam and Dean have made mistakes, which is the perspective I’ve always taken on this show. It’s two brothers working with one another; both have strengths and both have weakness. It’s perfectly fine that you have your way of looking at things, but I’d like to give you my thoughts about the examples you’ve provided.
In Bloodlust, Sam was right to trust Lenore because they weren’t killing humans. Dean was wrong to trust Gordon. We know this because there came a time when Dean was prepared to kill Gordon, even though he was human. So it was actually Dean who made the mistake of trusting Gordon in this episode, not Sam.
I’m guessing your point is that eventually Lenore reverted to her true nature after Eve turned up, but I don’t think that makes Sam wrong. In fact, Lenore begged them to kill her because she couldn’t overcome Eve’s influence. She didn’t want to live if she had to kill, so this shows me that Sam’s instinct about her being a good person was right all along. It was ultimately just tragic 🙁
In regard to the rugaru, I also believe Sam was right in wanting to try to help the guy first rather than just kill him outright. The fact is we will never know if he could’ve been saved because his hand was forced by the other hunter. He only became the monster when his wife (family) was threatened. Again it was a tragic circumstance.
The rugaru is actually an interesting parallel to what happened to Benny this season. Benny also killed to save family when his hand was forced by another hunter. It’s almost the same situation, except that it was the rugaru’s first kill and there was no going back for him. Whereas Benny may not need to kill again.
I don’t think Sam was wrong in his handling of the rugaru and I don’t think Dean is wrong in his handling of Benny. It’s simply not black and white, which is exactly what we saw in last week’s episode with the rookie teenage hunters.
Anyhow, this is just my perspective…
And one last thing, I don’t think Dean or anyone else ever blamed Sam for Lenore. Actually, she was crucial in helping them find Eve, so if Sam hadn’t shown her mercy in the first instance, well who knows…. 🙂
KG_SPN, I totally agree.
Plus, I remember that neither Sam nor Dean were inclined to kill Lenore even when she said she killed a teen girl and wanted to die. They understand that she did it because of Eve and were willing to hide her until they killed Eve and stop her evil influence. I believe they were quite sure she wouldn’t kill again Eve gone.
It was S06 ruthless Cas who took the decision from them, because he was in a hurry. That was cold!
[quote] without Dean sending Edward Cullin to save him.[/quote]Exactly.(lol nice way to put it)
I’m not sure how, if Sam gets stuck in Hell through no fault of his own, this makes him less of a capable hunter?
Sam killed the Hellhound and saved his brother in the first trial. Dean was weaponless and about to become puppychow, until Sam stepped in. Now, because a situation goes against him, most likely through no fault of his own, he’d be seen as less capable? I don’t get it.
These two are always helping each other, that’s been the dynamic since we first met them. I don’t see why one brother needing the other brother’s help is a weakness. I see it as team work, I see it as family.
[quote]I’m not sure how, if Sam gets stuck in Hell through no fault of his own, this makes him less of a capable hunter?
Sam killed the Hellhound and saved his brother in the first trial. Dean was weaponless and about to become puppychow, until Sam stepped in. Now, because a situation goes against him, most likely through no fault of his own, he’d be seen as less capable? I don’t get it.
These two are always helping each other, that’s been the dynamic since we first met them. I don’t see why one brother needing the other brother’s help is a weakness. I see it as team work, I see it as family.[/quote]
Amen!!!!!
I second that Amen! And having something take a extreme physical toll but fighting through it, is the definition of hero in my book.
And Dean helping is what these two do for each other. I want them to try to share the burdens with each other. I would be upset if they did anything else.
Amen! 🙂
[quote]I’m not sure how, if Sam gets stuck in Hell through no fault of his own, this makes him less of a capable hunter?
Sam killed the Hellhound and saved his brother in the first trial. Dean was weaponless and about to become puppychow, until Sam stepped in. Now, because a situation goes against him, most likely through no fault of his own, he’d be seen as less capable? I don’t get it.
These two are always helping each other, that’s been the dynamic since we first met them. I don’t see why one brother needing the other brother’s help is a weakness. I see it as team work, I see it as family.[/quote]
Exactly its about helping each other thing the brothers do best back each other up.
Shaping up to be a great end of season run this year; so many ways to go with this.
Just speculating here but I think Naomi goes to Dean to ask Benny to help get Sam back from hell because she was somehow involved in Benny knowing a way out of purgatory; perhaps Benny isn’t just a vampire? I realize Naomi wanted Cas to kill Dean but that was to protect the angel tablet, which was her #1 priority, a matter of survival for the angels. Naomi also wants to see the gates of hell closed, hence the reason for getting Sam back. And, since it sounds as though Sam can’t have any human or heavenly help in finishing the trials, that’s why they enlist Benny in getting him back? Naomi instructing Castiel earlier this season to help the Winchesters when they called made that clear.
As far as why Sam gets trapped in hell, the obvious reason would be Crowley but I’m leaning towards the less obvious; the Taxi Driver that opened the portal to hell either gets killed by a demon or double crosses the Winchesters.
This whole upcoming Metatron thing is interesting; without wanting to offend the many fans that believe Chuck is God… when they first made mention of Metatron in S7, my first thought was, oh, a scribe of God… just like Chuck. Since I’m speculating away here, I think the Winchesters will need Metatron to finish the final trial – they’ll need the other half of the tablet to find out what the third trial is and I don’t think Crowley is too eager for them to have it. So… why not go to the angel that wrote all these tablets in the first place? To that end, is Metatron an angel or archangel?
Regarding souls in hell, John Winchester crawled out of hell at the end of Season 2 to save his boys and I always assumed he went to heaven. What about Sam and Dean’s mother? Didn’t she make a deal with YED to save John and wouldn’t that have marked her soul for hell, or is that only when you make a deal with a crossroads demon? Or is this just an inconsistency that they neglected to address, or did I forget something in a future episode that cleared this up? Or, do I have way too much free time on my hands today?
Is there any reason why Chuck couldn’t be Metatron? I know they said they were hiring someone and the description was a long way from describing Rob Benedict – but it could have been misdirection! They never did say who they hired ….
[quote]Is there any reason why Chuck couldn’t be Metatron? I know they said they were hiring someone and the description was a long way from describing Rob Benedict – but it could have been misdirection! They never did say who they hired ….[/quote]
yep… was thinking along the same lines 🙂
If they brought Rob back…you’d hear my squees the world over… I love that little guy!
Mine too! I really miss Chuck. And Rob is adorable. I could really get behind this!
The closer we get to tonight’s episode, the closer I am to changing my mind on thoughts that we are going to really see Bobby. It sure looks like him, from the back obviously 😉 And I saw a tweet from Jim Beaver after the show last week that just said “yay!” or something to that effect which I kinda took as confirmation of sorts. But seriously – that would be a pretty huge spoiler from a show that went to great lengths to trick us about his last return. I am now leaning towards the idea that it is all just a little too neat and clean. Like a “gotcha!†but in reverse.
Ack! I can’t wait to find out!
Two things are for sure; gonna be an EPIC episode… and I could really go for a chocolate chip cookie now.
😀
“Trial and Error” everyone focusses on the “Trial” and not on the “Error”. They only had half the tablet to interpret. It always bothered me that the half they had told you what not to worry about (like death), but it never said what you should worry about. Maybe the “only one” interpretation is wrong. Why can’t Sam be the innocent soul? Crowley knows they are trying to close the gates, maybe this taxi driver is a set-up to trap Sam?
I’m thinking Naomi is offering to help Sam if Dean can get something from Benny. My second guess is that she is telling Dean there is a door from Purgatory into Hell that Dean can take to get Sam and Dean needs Benny to get back into Purgatory. They won’t send Benny to do Dean’s job.
[quote]Why can’t Sam be the innocent soul?[/quote] Hmmmmm, intriguing!
Well, we know that Purgatory is hell-adjacent. So maybe Dean wants Benny to help him back into purgatory so he can get cross over into Hell to help Sam. Maybe they both go. Or maybe only Benny goes.
Promotional photos released!!! http://www.buddytv.com/slideshows/supernatural/supernatural-episode-819-photos-the-second-trial-and-bennys-return-37953.aspx
‘Sam at Night’ – that just strikes me as funny for some reason.
Sounds like a latenight talk show! I’d watch! 🙂
Looked the photos, thanks lada11. The crossroad scene where they did the Harlem shuffle is in there, lol.
I love all the speculation and it’s doing it’s job; getting me excited to watch!
Just want to go on record with my own awful theories. I agree that probably the Bobby return is a ruse, what with all the teases. Maybe Jim makes an appearance, tho, which would be nice. I think Sam would be doing the trials regardless of knowing Bobby is in Hell, so I think he’s really there. But what if Sam goes into Hell looking for Bobby, thinking he’s the innocent and there’s really another and he has to make a choice to leave Bobby there or risk not completing the trial.
Imagine how angry Dean would be if Sam failed to bring Bobby out, or failed to complete the trial, right? It would be just too sad. I hope it doesn’t go that way, but I’m preparing for the worst.
As for Naomi and Benny, I think the only reason she’d go to Dean would be to deal, either for the angel tablet, to kill Crowley, etc. but it may reveal her true nature and that of Crowley and their relationship.
I don’t see Benny being able to help Sam unless there’s a door from Purgatory into Hell (it’s ‘hell-adjacent’ remember?). And he did know where that portal was, so maybe he’s in league with Naomi, I don’t know.
Happy watching!
OK, remember I said ‘hell-adjacent’. I wasn’t right about a lot of it though.
The lines: “Crowley is pissed.
Naomi is pisseder.”
They made me chortle.
Enjoy the episode everyone!!
Edited by Alice – We are going to start cracking down hard on excessive and vile negativity on posts on certain threads. sweetondean’s speculation articles are nothing but upbeat and positive. We will not tolerate acid responses here. We are allowing Let’s Speculate and Let’s Discuss threads for that.
Not to mention, it’s the same complaint yet again twisted another way. That’s another thing we are watching carefully.
Bobby didn’t get the whole story, though. Remember, he’s the voice of the backstory on SPN, so his lines were there to recap, I believe. He wasn’t pleased with Dean’s choice in friends, either, right? Sam didn’t have time to explain any of it, so I don’t think it’s anymore than a shadowing of the past shows.
I know I can’t change your mind, and I think something may still be revealed about what happened before Amelia, but if not, I’ll chalk it up to the writers back-tracking because it wasn’t a story the fans bought, so they dropped it. Maybe they are about to do a reveal and felt the need to recap what happened at the beginning of the season first. Wishful think’in, I know.
Edited by Alice. Take the overly cynical view to the Let’s Discuss thread. Chances are, you already have.
I heard nothing about Sam being vile or faithless or worthless. Not one of those words. Not one.
Percysowner Did Bobby really say this?Was Sam silent again?I don’t believe I am saying this ,If Amelia turns out pregnant and they use this to blame Sam or sideline Sam some more i am out.
When Bobby found out that Dean had been in Purgatory for a year, he said Sam must have gone crazy looking for him. Sam said nothing. Bobby asked why he didn’t look for Dean and Sam said they had the agreement and pointed out that Bobby TOLD them to do that. Bobby said that that was the type of agreement that wasn’t meant to be kept and that Sam should have looked. He didn’t call Sam names, but it was clear that Sam (edited by Alice – it wasn’t clear. Your cynical views are not welcome on this thread).
what is the story with benny?
Dean discovers Sam is trapped in Purgatory, so he calls Benny and asks Benny to let him kill Benny so Benny can lead Sam out of Purgatory. Benny, being the Best Brother Ever, agrees. Dean kills Benny. Benny finds Sam and Bobby. Bobby is unhappy that Dean is friends with a vampire. Sam tells him Benny is a good guy. Sam takes Bobby’s soul into his arm. They are attacked by other vampires. Benny says he has chosen the Winchesters over his own kind, because he is The Better Brother. He the tells Sam he doesn’t want to come back to earth, distracts the rampaging BAD vampires and lets Sam and Bobby escape. After Bobby makes it to heaven Sam tells Dean he was wrong about Benny, that he now understands and that it is good that Dean didn’t burn Benny’s corpse so if Benny wants to come back he can.
I don’t know, percysowner. I might be a Pollyanna here but I think the fact that Sam not looking has been brought up in 2 of the last 3 episode is a good sign that the story isn’t done. I mean at the very least the writers know this still arouses hard feelings in many of the viewers, so why keep bringing it up with only 4 episodes left in the season.
I personally think it is to remind us because it is somehow going to come into play in these last few episodes. And I going to keep thinking that until shown otherwise. 🙂
Edited by Alice – Honestly, I just getting tired of reading the same complaint over and over again. I know your faith is gone. You have been ranting in six comments on this thread, and there’s more below this.
It’s getting to the point where your posts will only be allowed on Let’s Discuss or Let’s Speculate threads. Learn to write something constructive on previews and reviews, or I unpublish your comments.
What you’re saying is so far from the vibe I got from the lovely Sam and Dean hug in this episode that I don’t know where to start.
I’m really sorry your optimism is gone, but seriously this is ALL YOUR OWN perception of Sam. I’m not intending to be rude, but you’re putting words and thoughts out there that just haven’t not been spoken or implied.
[quote]faithless, worthless brother and a vile, disgusting human [/quote]
Where do you get this from? I’m a huge Sam fan and I don’t agree with anything you’ve said about him or his story arc this season. To me he is still the same Sam, who always tries to do the right thing. He is a hero, who is sacrificing his own health for the greater good by doing these trials. He loves his brother and wants to take him to the light, so they can both have a life after hunting. That is how I see Sam. That’s MY PERCEPTION.
Bobby is a cranky old man (and we love him for it). Of course he chastised Sam for not looking for Dean, the same way he was chastising Dean for making friends with a vamp. He didn’t have the full story (and there is still a chance that we don’t have the full story). Bobby loved both boys (remember his final memory in Death’s Door) and would NEVER use the description you’ve used to describe Sam. Neither would Dean.
But I’m quite certain you won’t see it my way, so we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I love this show and can’t tell you how much joy I get out of it every single week 🙂
Thank you KG_SPN! You have stated exactly how I feel. It gets so discouraging sometimes, those type of comments.
Ditto.
Got on here after the episode last night and that was like, the second comment I read. My blood pressure spiked for a brief second, then I rolled my eyes, shut my computer off, and went to bed.
Thanks for saying what I didn’t have the energy to, KG_SPN.
Well done KG_SPN. You are my hero.
So happy to have been wrong about …………………………. BOBBY! I’m so sad he was just sent to heaven but at least now we know where he is for sure. And I COMPLETELY ABSOLUTELY love that Sam got to be the one to rescue him.
I have some issues about the ease of getting in and out of Hell and Purgatory considering Naomi said many Angels died to rescue Cas. And Cas made it sound so hard to rescue Dean. But I’m going to concentrate on the fact that Bobby was back even if it was just 1 episode! BOBBY! YAY!
I am in a love- hate relationship with this episode
mainly
i did not like it
that is all
Loved it. Left me with all sorts of questions but I can deal… Loved that it was Sam with Bobby. Loved that scene with Dean and Benny. Made such sense that Benny couldn’t manage in this world. Crowley is getting more overtly nasty. Love it. Who is the mystery guy? Demon or weird angel?. Love knowing there are so many wonderful openings in the story for Sam and Dean to further mature their relationship and how they communicate with each other. Looks like the writers might not let Sam’s desperate year without Dean and decisions he made to get through go. Love the mysteries the episode has left us with. Angel Tablet? Cas? Naomi? Just what is she up to exactly. And Kevin…and the other tablet.? Excellent.
Okay, one more thing ..
Is anyone else getting the feeling that there’s something up with this season? As in, not right? As in, not true reality?
I’ve been getting this nagging feeling since Hunter Heroicus that there’s something up with this season and its episodes. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but i wanted to share my theories here anyways. (we’ve got a 3 week hiatus ahead of us, theres not much else to do.)
Firstly, a few come from this episode:
1) In season 7, Crowley talked to Castiel about how he had remodeled hell, and when he and Cas arrived, it was just one big long line. In this episode, it looked completely different.
2) Crowley said he was a 17th century scottish man who sold his soul for and extra *ahem* 3 inches. Although, I know not to trust what Crowley says, they did bring his son back, who had been alive at that time. There’s always the possibility that he was a demon/angel/whatever during the 17th century, but I doubt it.
And then, suddenly Naomi, who is (or possibly isnt) an angel, has a history with him [i]in Mesopotamia.[/i]I’m not the best at social studies, but i’m pretty sure Mesopotamia was WAY before the 17th century. [of course, there’s always the possibility that they had a steamy time together and she revealed the fact that she was an angel and took him back in time, but Naomi being Naomi, that seems unlikely.]
3) This one may seem weird to some of you, (I really like cinematography and tend to pay attention to that alot) but one thing that has me confused is the [i]colors.[/i] If you go and watch the 1st, 4th, or even the 6th season, and then the 8th, the difference is surprising. One of may favorite things about this show was the gritty, muted and neutral colors the show uses. They usually only reserved bright, bright colors for alternate realities. (Dean being poisoned by the djinn, anyone? The End, anyone? Am I pinging your intrest yet?) While I was in the middle of the 5th season I got bored and decided to skip ahead to 8×07. One of the very first things i noticed was how [i]bright[/i] it was. And when Sam had the flashbacks, the colors became even more saturated, to the point where everything looked orange-y. Even now, the Winchester’s skin looks almost orange. (ex, 8×08-8×10) But maybe that’s just me. Maybe it’s the whole “things are looking up and everything seems brighter” type thinking, but who knows.
4) Ever head of: “too good to be true”?
Closing the gates of Hell? [i]Forever??[/i] Yeah, I think that can fall under the category of “too good to be true”.
Another example? 8×18. Krissy, Aiden, and Josephine were taken in by a ‘loving’ and ‘caring’ hunter and he conveniently ‘found’ all the vamps who supposedly killed their families.
And then, it turns out that it wasn’t like that at all. Rip off all the good and shiny exterior, and underneath it’s black and rotten and riddled with holes.
5) The Leviathan tablet didn’t have instructions on how to close the gates of Purgatory. Leviathans come from and were created in purgatory. God put them there for a reason. If it was anything like the demon tablet, it should have told you how to shut the gates forever. [demons were also created and come from Hell. angels were created and come from Heaven. Sense a pattern here? And the angel and demon tablet tell you how to shut the gates, but the leviathan tablet doesn’t? ] (Also notice how the demon and the angel tablet wasn’t found until the 8th season) Yes, I know, you need purgatory to collect all the souls of the dead monsters. But do you really? In that line of thinking, you would also need Hell to collect all the dirty and twisted humans that don’t deserve Heaven. You need Heaven to collect all the pure and devout human souls. But Dean and Cas and Kevin and Sam are trying to close the gates to hell anyhow.
6) This point is sort of a weak one, but isn’t the wrath of an archangel supposed to smite anything that threatens a prophet? Or are there just not enough archangels left?
7) Crowley just getting inside Kevin’s head (and not doing it before)? Crowley shouting that this was [i]his[/i] universe? Have I placed that special little idea seed in your brain yet?
8) And with the new promo, my brain has again begun the process of poking me repeatedly, whispering “something’s not right.”
A promo where Dean is placed in an alternate reality that looks and tricks you into thinking it [i]is[/i] reality? Can you say foreshadowing, anyone? (Another example, although a weak one, is in LARP and the Real Girl, where Moondor becomes the prominent reality. And Felicia Day was in that one, too. Interesting. /strokes nonexistent beard/)
In the promo, Dean asks, “What is this?” most likely because he awoke in a random place, wearing random clothes. He thought where he was, [i]was[/i] real. Charlie had to tell him that he was in a video game to convince him that the reality he was currently experiencing wasn’t the real one.
Another piece of foreshadowing that just smacked me in the face: Sam was dating Amelia because she was under the assumption that her husband was dead. And then he suddenly shows up, out of nowhere, alive. In the beginning of the season, Dean just shows up, out of nowhere, alive, when Sam was under the presumption that he was dead. (connection- Dean thinks he’s in reality until Charlie tells him he’s in a video game. -insert big plot twist that relates back to this episode here-[assumption-dean thinks he’s in reality when he really isn’t. /screams Inception!/])
9) This one really quite bothers me and was the one that started this whole line of thinking.
Supernatural is a show where the main characters are in a new town every week, where they kill something and then leave. It can’t bring back or recast actors in completely different roles, because that seems suspicious. Except that’s exactly what they’ve done. Three times. And all, in Season 8.
Example A: Ty Olsson. He played a bartender who spoke briefly to the Winchesters in the episode Bloodlust. (2×03)
Same face, same accent.
He ALSO plays Benny, the vampirate. (8×01-8×19 RIP)
I really can’t come up with an explanation besides the fact that he was on once before and he liked it??
Example B: John DeSantis. He played Freeman Daggett, a ghost in the episode Ghostfacers. (3×13)
He ALSO plays the Golem, in Everybody Hates Hitler. (8×13)
Again, I don’t have an explanation.
Example C: Tyler Johnston. He played Matt Pike in Bugs. (1×08) He ALSO played Samandriel. (8×02-8×12 RIP)
The only explantation for this is that he could be like Jimmy, where it was in his blood to be a vessel. But then again, Matt wasn’t devout, so it could hinder his saying yes to become a vessel. This theory is a long shot, though.
(And what is it with Dean not remembering faces? Daggett tried to kill his brother, for god’s sakes. He fcking remembered Victor!)
I think the recasts plays on the whole “your brain uses other people you’ve seen before as characters in your dreams”. Again, I could be wrong, but this really bothers me. I’ve never seen any actors being recast in different roles in any other seasons. Why start now?
10) Set recycling? There are a few screencaps where the brick wall outside one of their motel rooms is the same one as the motel Gabriel shoved them into in Changing Channels. Also, a divider seen in one of Sam’s flashbacks is in one the shared brother’s rooms. Wallpaper from Sam’s Amelia flashbacks is also seen in present time. Coincidence?
In the words of Dean Winchester: “When do things ever happen coincidentally?”
Okay so that was way longer than I intended, but something in me won’t stop nagging me about it. It’s like that feeling you get when you’re forgetting something, but can’t remember what you’re forgetting. I do get that this is one of the more radical theories, one of the ones that are out there with the theorists saying Gabriel is coming back, but it bothers me.
Anyways, thoughts?
You make some interesting points, Sky.
Just wanna put my two cents in about the recycling actors and the familiar shots.
It could just be, as far as the actors are concerned that they’ve been on for so long that they’re bringing a couple of them back. Notice, though how all the actors who’ve returned were people who had bit parts in one episode in early seasons. Maybe they’re just running out of new actors? :-*
Also, I know for some establishing shots, like locations, or motels etc, they do often use stock footage that they’ve filmed before. There was one very famous stock shot that they used several times in the earlier seasons of the Impala driving past a field and a clouded sky, so maybe they’re doing a bit of that here, too.
I would love for this to be an AU, or an hallucination. Certainly someone I read suggested that Naomi is, at least in part, the part of Castiel that wants to punish himself and that Naomi herself has not interacted as much with Cas as we think. It would be interesting if the only reality was Naomi telling Cas to save the tablet at any cost and the killing Dean and Samandriel was part of Cas’s subconscious. I did wonder at first if Dean had escaped Purgatory into an AU, one that was close to his reality, but not quite. If this is a hallucination, I wonder who is hallucinating. Sam would seem obvious, but since we have had no Sam POV, it seems that he doesn’t qualify. I don’t know what would have caused Dean to hallucinate, unless he never went to Purgatory at all and this is all a head injury.
[quote]6) This point is sort of a weak one, but isn’t the wrath of an archangel supposed to smite anything that threatens a prophet? Or are there just not enough archangels left?[/quote]
I think we were told there were only 4 archangels, Michael, Lucifer, Raphael and Gabriel. If so, Raphael is dead, Michael and Lucifer are trapped and Gabriel is probably dead, but he could be tricking everybody.
[quote]I did wonder at first if Dean had escaped Purgatory into an AU, one that was close to his reality, but not quite. If this is a hallucination, I wonder who is hallucinating. Sam would seem obvious, but since we have had no Sam POV, it seems that he doesn’t qualify. I don’t know what would have caused Dean to hallucinate, unless he never went to Purgatory at all and this is all a head injury.
[quote]6) This point is sort of a weak one, but isn’t the wrath of an archangel supposed to smite anything that threatens a prophet? Or are there just not enough archangels left?[/quote]
I think we were told there were only 4 archangels, Michael, Lucifer, Raphael and Gabriel. If so, Raphael is dead, Michael and Lucifer are trapped and Gabriel is probably dead, but he could be tricking everybody.[/quote]
ah okay yeah i thought so. But now I’m wondering what Naomi is? Because she’s obviously got more power and influence that castiel or the other angels… hmm.
And since Benny was one of the recasts, I have a headcanon that dean was/is being fed on by a djinn, (possibly the one he killed all those years ago or the ones in season 6) because if it is a djinn they’re definitely fufilling a different type of wish in an … unconventional way.
I just have the feeling that anyone who died (or at least some of them) in this season are going to come back, because this is supernatural, after all.
I can’t wait till April 24th!
and by being fed on by a djinn i mean he’s still in purgatory! I really hate the thought but this being supernatural, it may be possible.
My only problem with this as the potential reveal of the season is that it leaves Sam with even less than he has now, which is practically nothing as far as story goes. If this whole thing has been Dean’s experience alone, I will be one unhappy camper. We’ve been shown so little of what Sam feels and thinks even though he’s “supposedly” been an active participant in everything. What will we have we learned about him if he’s just a figment of Dean’s imagination? A reveal of this sort would mean that we’ve had a whole season without any of Sam in it at all.
I think that it is unlikely to be a figment of their imagination, either of them, or both, or that they are in the Matrix. Not because it wouldn’t explain all the inconsistencies, because it would but for [s]two[/s] three reasons:
1) They lose the MOL lair – and I really don’t see the writers doing that, it is too much fun.
2) They loose the existence of Benny – and while people are way more expendable than sets on SPN I really don’t think Benny is gone for good
3) (and I think this is BY FAR the most important one) they lose the golem and Aaron! This must not be!
On the other hand the twistiness of who is controlling the matrix and why could be really good, but it is more sci-fi than horror I think.
Hi, I have some thoughts about your point #9. I counted more than 3 recycled actors. Creepy.
*Ty Olsson has starred in Supernatural before. He played vampire Eli, a member of Lenore’s nest in episode 2.03 “Bloodlustâ€.
*Amelia’s father, Stan, is played by Brian Markinson, also appeared in a previous episode of Supernatural, 1.04 “Phantom Traveller†as Jerry Panowski.
*One of the birthday party ladies in HH was the old lady in Hansel and Gretel in “Bedtime Stories.
*Kathleen Munroe (Elizabeth) played Annette Doolittle in the episode 3.02 “The Kids Are Alrightâ€.
*Viggo the torturer in Torn and Frayed was played by the same actor that played Evan Hudson in Crossroad Blues.
*The Sheriff (Larp & Real Girl) also played “Mike,†John’s partner in the garage. The boys questioned him in “Home†in season 1.
*John Desantis played Freeman Daggett from “Ghostfacers†episode.
*Tyler Johnston played Matt Pike in Bugs and Season 8’s Samandriel.
Hi Lovetoboys Sky and Kristin, at the beginning of the season I was thinking the same thing and if you look there recycled actors in every episode except Bitten (and that might have changed by now) for at least the first half of the season. They have done it a LOT this year. I think it is cool (though it would be fun if there were a reason behind it too) to see what people can do with different roles in the same show.
But look at this, [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460681/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm#cast[/url] it is the list of all the actors that have been in the show and their character names on the right, scroll down, it takes a while to really start but every time there is a character name and then a slash that person is recycled (or has played two (or more) characters) in some episode at some point. 😀 There may be more than are even listed because Adrian Hough hasn’t been updated yet for F&G
Funnily enough Jared and Misha have multiple people they have been, though since Misha has ‘himself’ as one of his characters then JP and JA should as well ….
Also add Aiden Huff who played Victor in Freaks and Geeks. He played Dr. Hydecker, better known as the Striga in Something Wicked. Serge Houde played the cop in Man’s Best Friend with Benefits and the father in Children Shouldn’t Play With Dead Things. John Stewart played Carl Granville in Trial and Error and the pizza delivery guy in Monster Movie. I stopped checking IMDB after this.
There have been one heck of a lot of repeat actors this year.
[quote]
There have been one heck of a lot of repeat actors this year.[/quote]
Wow. I am impressed.
I think they’re using actors from the 1-3rd seasons because we are least likely to recognise them. I for one feel like I should rewatch all the seasons to see if I can pay attention more.
and they’re all and only in Season 8 ….
Curious.[quote]Also add Aiden Huff who played Victor in Freaks and Geeks. He played Dr. Hydecker, better known as the Striga in Something Wicked. Serge Houde played the cop in Man’s Best Friend with Benefits and the father in Children Shouldn’t Play With Dead Things. John Stewart played Carl Granville in Trial and Error and the pizza delivery guy in Monster Movie. I stopped checking IMDB after this.
There have been one heck of a lot of repeat actors this year.[/quote]
qyv
oops! didn’t mean to quote you twice. my bad.
I like to think that there is a super-secret plotline involving the use of “used” actors. Not just that Vancouver has such a horrible shortage of actors.
Hello love and Sky, I think that there are even more recurring actors than even your extensive list covers! Im pretty sure that in an earlier thread that someone had counted that there had been a recurring actor in every single episode in the season except Bitten. I know that the creepy Thor’s Hammer guy was also the creepy curio shop owner in The Mentalists maybe or some other episode where there was a creepy curio shop. And recently we’ve had the Striga/Crazy Victor repeat… um, there were a few in Southern Comfort that repeated (I think 3 actors from that episode alone!) The woman who killed her husband by dropping a car on him in SoCo was also a repeat as well. I know that Vancouver isn’t huge and that using a reliable actor twice, even several times happens quite a bit, but this is a crazy amount of duplicating going on here. I am sure that we are supposed to notice, just not sure why?
Another example of “recycle” casting in Season 8 is Amelia’s dad. He played the guy who called Sam and Dean to help in Season 1 when they first messed with a demon in Phantom Traveler. Just so ya know. 🙂
This one gets an A from me. I thought it was a great episode – lots of suspense, emotion, and plenty of twists (even though many of us predicted the plot). 😉
Some highlights:
I thought the part where Sam walked through the prison area of Hell was particularly creepy – like a legit haunted house. I was a little creeped out by the sounds, especially.
The scenes between Benny and Dean were heartwrenching – I found myself tearing up. I knew from the moment he got into Purgatory that he wasn’t getting out. It’s no secret that I love Benny’s character, and I hope it’s not the last we see of him.
It was great to see Bobby again, even looking worse-for-wear. I heard his disbelief over both Sam’s not looking for Dean and Dean’s befriending a vampire, and I thought about how times have changed, and how Bobby had to move on, if for no other reason than he wouldn’t be able to understand the journey the brothers have been on and how that journey has affected them. Bobby is a part of the past, and I can accept that now.
I loved the interactions between Sam and Bobby, especially when Sam was trying to convince Bobby he was real and not a demon. That moment when there were “two Sam’s” was also particularly tense.
The best scene was when Sam got out of Purgatory – the frantic worry followed by relief in Dean’s entire demeanor was so evident. And we got another brother hug! Also, the look on Dean’s face when Sam gently informed him that Benny didn’t make it out was so gut-wrenching. Le sigh. Lots of ‘feels’ as some put it.
I worry about Kevin. I feel bad for him. I wonder what’s going to happen to him and how much he can take. He’s only a kid, after all, prophet or not. I wish Dean or Sam could muster up a little more sympathy. I did appreciate Dean making sure the kid ate though. Taking care of him in his own gruff way.
Crowley has become such a badass. He used to be a fun demon. Now he’s just evil. I wonder if he’ll be dead before the end of the season.
I wonder if Naomi aligning herself with the Winchester will put Cas at odds with them.
I wonder what is happening to Sam. Goodness gracious, that in and of itself is suspense enough! Is he dying? Is he transforming? I must know!!
SO GLAD this wasn’t a TBC episode as many expected!
Saw the promo for next week and I’m stoked – looks like lots of action-packed fun – wasn’t at all what I was expecting, either!
That’s all for now. 🙂
Loved this episode! I only wish the awesomeness could’ve been spread out over two weeks… but then again, that would’ve involved a cliff-hanger and I don’t know if I could’ve coped with this extra bit of emotion on top of everything else we had to deal with in this episode 😥
Favourite moment: that hug :sigh:
I’ve really loved season 8 and I’m on the edge of my seat for the last 4 episodes 😮