sweetondean’s Spoiler-lite preview – “Supernatural” 8.07 “A Little Slice of Kevin”
Preview time. I’m all stocked up on cookies, tissues and (sort of) ready! So let’s start thinking about the next episode.
THEN
The War of the Winchesters.
It was angry and hurtful and painful and I’m desperate to see where we pick-up.
NOW
Cass.
So the Angel returneth! Cass is back,.looking Purgatorised; scruffy and grubby,.(I’ll just leave that with you). He’s finally made it topside. How? We don’t know. What does he know? Well that’s the question isn’t it. But maybe, just maybe, he can help the brothers put some perspective on this entire Winchester pickle!
Ok, honesty time here,over the last two seasons I’ve become a bit ambivalent towards Castiel. I enjoyed his character in seasons 4 and 5, but I didn’t much care for his storylines in seasons 6 and 7 and to me, sometimes it felt like he was shoe-horned in there for the fan’s benefit. Don’t hate! I didn’t really enjoy the times he was used as comic relief, kissing Meg, baby in a trench coat and then the whole bee-lovin’, sandwich making, crazy Cass stuff. I don’t know, it seemed to diminish what I felt was originally, a pretty kickass character. There was a part of me that came to think, when Dean said, “Well, you really suck at goodbyes, you know that?” in the Impala at the end of “Swan Song”, that should have been the end of it. I thought that could have been an awesome exit for the Angel who never quite got the subtleties of human interaction.
This is all very weird because I adore Misha Collins and I don’t want to lose him. I did the Rhino thing, both GISHWHES, I’ve signed up for whatever horror he has in store for us at Christmas. I think he’s an amazing man, bizzare in the best possible way, with an uncanny knack for tapping into us and inspiring us to do good things and he literally just posted a naked photo of himself hugging the Chrysler Building while I was writing this! The great big troll! Plus he’s a good actor and I enjoy seeing him getting into really good material, even if I’m not keen on its context. So torn!
But this season, I gotta say, I’m looking forward to seeing what Cass brings to the party. I’ve totally dug how he’s been portrayed in Purgatory. He seems to have his wits about him again, he’s smiting monsters left and right, I love me a bit of smiting, bad-mofo Castiel and,.he seems to know stuff,..Hallelujah! Maybe he can fill in a few gaps for Sam and shake Dean up a bit. Shake the brothers up. Yay!
Anyway, let’s look at the synopsis for “A Little Slice of Kevin”:
CASTIEL ESCAPES PURGATORY – Sam and Dean are stunned when Castiel suddenly appears back on Earth with no memory of how he escaped from Purgatory. Meanwhile, Mrs. Tran enlists a witch (guest star Cyrina Fiallo) to concoct a demon bomb, but the witch double crosses Mrs. Tran and turns her and Kevin over to Crowley, Charlie Carner directed the episode written by Eugenie Ross-Leming & Brad Buckner
Eugenie Ross-Leming & Brad Buckner have become pretty busy writers at “Supernatural”. This is their second episode this season, having written 8.03 “Heartache”. Charlie Carner is a newbie to the world of the Winchesters.
So, the Trans are back, I kinda forgot about them for a minute, in amongst all the bro stuff! Plus, welcome back Crowley, engage the snark! So we have the Winchesters, the Trans, Castiel and Crowley! Eyes down for a full house!
Also, though she’s not in the synopsis, I believe this will be Amanda Tapping’s first episode of the season.
Ok, what goodies do the promos reveal.
First off, the sweeps promo covered last week’s episode and this week’s episode so, though we have seen some of it, I’m going to include it,.sorry to make you relive the pain.
We see Cass come back,appearing to Dean in the bathroom, just like he did in “Free To Be You And Me”. What’s with Dean and the bathroom? Bobby also appeared to Dean in the bathroom! Poor guy’s going to start getting a complex! It’s not like he can even lock the door! Anyhoo…
Apparently Cass doesn’t remember how he got out of Purgatory,though Dean’s not buying that, because Dean’s got that whole ugly mess in his head. (Psst,Dean… tell your brother about it).
Cass proclaims he’s going to become a hunter (!), it looks like he may have developed a temper and he confronts Crowley, who’s armed with an Angel killing blade! Take no prisoners Cass! Neat.
Crowley and Cass are always fun to watch together. Misha and Mark look like they have a great time with their characters.
In the CW promo for this week,.could that be Dean opening up?
The promo kicks off with Dean saying he just doesn’t understand why “he” didn’t try harder and Sam is all blurry (and single layered…weeee) in the background, so I’m assuming Dean’s talking to Sam about Cass? He looks sad,..
We see that frightening, Cass slipping out of Dean’s grasp shot again and then,bathroom…”Hello Dean.” A few flashes of the Trans, a little Crowley and,we’re out. Typical CW promo lots of flashy edits and not a lot of substance.
But the CHCH promo,.
Dean’s yelling at Cass that he did everything to get him out. Cass asks Dean if he doesn’t really remember what happened. Dean says, “I know what happened” Cass says, “No, you think you know.” Oh my gosh! What happened? Why can’t Dean remember what actually happened? Is it some kind of Purgatory escape-hatch amnesia thing? Are we going to find out what was going on in that scene with Cass yelling Dean’s name and falling away? Say yes!
And then what’s with Castiel’s glowy eyes? Plus, we see his wings! I always dig seeing Angel wings. Cass’ wings are the only ones we’ve seen on a living Angel right?
Then we have the preview clip and it’s all about the Trans, which,yeah,I keep forgetting about. We see Mrs Tran well and truly embracing the tricks of the hunter to protect her son and she fights with Kevin about how to best survive in this new world. Then we find out she’s hired a witch to help them. Rookie mistake. Doesn’t she know that witches are skeevy and the bunnies always get it? Poor little guys!
So,in a nut shell,. Cass is back. Kevin obviously gets in a spot of bother with Crowley and needs rescuing. Dean thinks he remembers everything about Purgatory but maybe, not so much. He may or may not be opening up a little to Sam (p-leeeease be opening up a little to Sam). Cass and Crowley have a showdown,and THE EYES!
Ok, I know not everyone is in love with Cass. I know some fans are probably less than pleased that he’s back and I know some fans are probably beside themselves that he’s back, he seems to be that kind of character. But putting all that aside, either way, maybe with Castiel and his memories (or lack there of) of Purgatory, we might get a bit of action on the honesty front. Also, I’m of the understanding, that Cass and Sam get a little closer this season, so I’m hoping that Cass can share some stuff with Sam, that Dean is finding difficult to do. Yes, I know Dean should be doing the sharing, but right about now, I wouldn’t care if some random dude on the corner was doing the sharing, if he had information that would help paint more of the picture for the brothers and for us! Maybe Sam will even share some stuff with Cass? Maybe we’ll see those mysterious few months after Dean disappeared? I’m dreaming right?
It feels like it’s going to be a pretty action packed episode, but my one big hope is that everything that happened last week, isn’t simply swept under the rug. They’re great at sweeping are those Winchester brothers.
What are your theories? What really happened in Purgatory? How did Cass get left behind? How did he get out? What’s Dean not remembering? What’s with the blue eyes and the wing reveal? Do you think Sam and Cass will finally hug? Do you care about the Trans? Or, like me, did you kind of forget about them in all the angstiness bro-ness of the last couple of weeks.
Let me know what you think.
Enjoy the episode!
See you soon in reviewland!
-sweetondean
Thanks for the preview, sweetondean!
I’m with you on Cass (two s’s, according to CW) Loved him through S5, not so keen in 6 & 7. Hoping they make proper use of him in 8.
As much as I want the mytharc to get moving, I really hope we don’t have so much of the Trans that we lose momentum on the brothers’ issue! But I’m putting aside my expectations, and trying to enjoy the ride. 🙂
(And, may I just say, MORE in bed shots with of Sam with Tshirts on! Come on guys! Haven’t you learned yet? 😳 )
Clarifying because I can’t edit my own posts…. Burn the darn Tshirt, Sam! 😛
With ya st50!
🙂
I feel strangely proud that last week’s review and this week’s preview has prompted ‘serious’ discussion around Sam’s wearing of that t-shirt… :-*
SORRY! 😳
I’ll just sit here in the corner and try not to drool.
(And complain that we haven’t even seen Dean in just a Tshirt yet, have we? Ok, Shutting up now)
LOL ST50 and I were wondering if this line of thought would get us in trouble, we apologise for derailing the conversation … we have stopped now 😳 :-*
But yes, t-shirts…
Ladies please! This is ALWAYS a valid conversation on anything I write! Such discussions should never be apologised for!
😀 😉
Yay ST50, hear that? Thanks sweetondean!
You may regret that statement, sweetondean! God love ya!
I regret nothing!
On topic! : Castiel hugs. Can you arrange those for us sweetondean? We know you have pull with the PTB (we just know you MUST have) Sam and Castiel, Dean and Cas it’s all good.
Maybe if we all think about it hard enough…we can make it happen! We can create our own Tulpa! 😆
Oooh that is an epic idea! I love it! Will the Blue Oyster Cult logo do do you think? Or does it have to be the other symbol?
Or we could just use “The Secret”? Power of positive thinking, right?
(I think that is what it’s all about)
I fear that the return of the angel will push the brothers into the background again. Not looking forward to seeing that happen.
I’m not a fan of the angels..any of them and would be happy to have them go away.
I hope that the brother’s issues don’t get pushed into the background. I’m hoping the re-integration of Castiel into their relationship can act as an impetus for change.
Can’t wait, no matter what happens I just want to know what it is! Yeah, in a Misha interview he said something about having powers that we didn’t know he had,should be interesting. But I’m with you, I hope he can get the conversation going between Sam and Dean, god knows they need some help! Usually I really like shirtless Sam, but until there is some spark there, he should leave it on, would seem, idk, icky right now. If they just want to walk around that way, well OK! Whatever is in store, I’m ready to see it, I am comfortable that the boys love each other, no doubt, sometimes they just got to mull over things and do the lying crap, which in my head only happens to keep us watching, or something. grr I found this show in late season 5 so of course I was wtf, but I fixed that with I tunes! (need a new dvr to play my set on!) This is the only place I have dared comment lol. Some places are so ugly. I watch the show for Sam and Dean, Love me some Jensen, but 2 brothers make the show for me! I want the best for them both. I am just glad they are still on air since I missed so many live shows! Sorry, just rambling now, thanks for the write up. 1 more day, sigh…
[quote] This is the only place I have dared comment lol. Some places are so ugly. …[/quote]
Welcome, aelaine, to this (usually) safe place! Hope you’ll post more…
Nice comment. (and I’ll forgive you wanting Sam to keep his Tshirt on – this time 😆 )
Sorry sweetondean.
Oh, believe me I have no problems with our shirtless boys, but with Amelia? would seem gratuitous, but if you know ,they just want to walk around in their room without them, I’m all for it! lol
Welcome aelaine! Thanks for reading and joining the discussion! 🙂
In terms of the angel wings, nope we saw…. I think it was Raphael’s wings? They were all lightning like! 😀
Oh, yes and they were cool! Thank you Katie!
You’re welcome 🙂
I have always thought the angel wing shadows and effects were some of the best design ideas in the show – they are usually so simple and they look wonderful. The angel on the street with the strobe lights panning over her is one of the best
She was always my favourite – the expanse her wings was amazing. I also loved when Gabriel’s wings left particles floating in the air above him. I think the wings have been handled beautifully.
And “Will Cas and Sam finally hug?” Lol.
Now there is the million dollar question, Katie! 😆
[quote]And “Will Cas and Sam finally hug?” Lol.[/quote]
I hope not. After what he did to Sam that would be puke worthy.
I respectfully disagree, Jo1027, I think it’s high time those two became friends. Both have made some pretty awful ‘choices’ to use Dean’s words, but I hope they’ve both learned from them and can move on. The last few episodes of Season 7 seemed to indicate that perhaps they could.
Yeah, that was pretty awful. Was it before or while he was playing god? Because during it I get because, though he shouldn’t have had them in the first place, all those souls inside him messed him up a lot.
Hi Guys!
I am really going to be watching Sam’s reaction to Cas’s return; I am still hoping that there was some kind of deal in the works for Dean and/or Cas’s return from purgatory, and that maybe some subtle clues might be revealed in Sam’s reaction.
About Cas as a character in general: I am somewhat conflicted about him. I LOVE Misha and love some of the dynamic that he brought to the show particularly in his interactions with Dean. I thought he was best defined in season 4 when his loyalties were ambiguous. His motivations and his actions were really unclear which I found intriguing. Also Cas was badass in season 4 and kind of scary. In season 5 I still liked him, and I liked his rebellion arc, but he was used as Deus ex Machina way too much for my liking. One of the boys in mortal danger? Presto! Cas fixes it. It really killed the sense of danger and drama for me. I liked the Cas as the new God arc in season 6, but it took too long to formulate, and was left hanging for too long.
Season 7’s insane Cas kind of made me a little peeved. He took on Sam’s ‘hell’ and while that is admirable, he only did what he should have done and should not be congratulated or admired for it. If you got roaring drunk and drove your car into your neighbors house, then only said “I’ll pay for that,” do you think they are going to thank you for that? No, they are going to expect you to pay, and probably will sue you to boot. Cas never once asked to be forgiven for destroying Sam. Even though Sam forgave Cas (far too easily if you ask me) Cas never even said “sorry.” I’d like to see Cas come back and finally understand what it is he’s done to Sam and to ask forgiveness. I’d like there to be more of a friendship between Sam and Cas. I think that they will get to bond over Benny maybe. I’d also ilke Cas to be less of a powerful being. He’s at his best when the amount of help he can give (in a supernatural kind of way) is limited. Given the previews it doesn’t look like this will be the case, but I am actually looking forward to seeing the winged guy!
Hi E!
I enjoyed your post, except that Cas DID say sorry, twice, in Born Again Identity, he said ,1) “Oh Sam, I’m so sorry” when he tried to put the wall back after the electroshock treatment, and 2) “And if I can’t say it again, I’m sorry I ever….” right before he “took on the crazy”.
Perhaps Sam didn’t hear/understand at either point, but Cas did apologise.
Actually that’s true, I had forgotten that. Sam wasn’t really in much of a position to hear it though. I wonder if he even realizes?
I don’t know if he heard it, or if he somehow got a glimpse of Cas’s state of mind in the whole transfer thing, but his attitude in 7.21 suggests that he might have. Though I do think part of his understanding attitude there was guilt that Cas now had his crazy (he told Dean in Party On, Garth that he felt like the guy in The Ring) and part of it seemed like it was eagerness to talk to someone who understood what he’d been experiencing — that little conversation was really the only time in s7 when Sam spontaneously opened up about what it felt like to be in the condition he’d been in.
Yes, etheldred, somehow Sam seemed to know Cass was sorry, or at least he could relate to how he was feeling….
If they’d taken time to develop that scene just a bit more (a few more seconds even, for better facial closeups) I think it could’ve gone a long way in showing how Sam and Cass’ relationship could be starting to improve – there was definite understanding/forgiveness/whatever….
Can’t quite see Cass ever going back to seeing Sam as the “abomination” he was, and I think Sam has moved past the breaking the wall issue, so they should both be open to being a bit more friendly.
Hope we see that in S8…. along with whatever the heck is up between Cass and Dean.
That was a good scene. I enjoyed that moment between Castiel and Sam and I saw some understanding there between those two characters. In many ways they have gone through similar things. Making choices they felt were right but which turned out to have catastrophic implications for the future of humanity. Trying to make amends for those choices. Surviving the crazy. These alone could bring a mutual understanding. What Cass did to Sam when he tore down the wall was unconscionable, but Sam is the kind of man that could forgive him, whether we agree with that or not. That’s also a big part of why we love Sam, because he is that kind of man. I’m looking forward to seeing how Sam and Castiel react to each other and how their relationship is ongoing.
[quote]What Cass did to Sam when he tore down the wall was unconscionable, but Sam is the kind of man that could forgive him, whether we agree with that or not. That’s also a big part of why we love Sam, because he is that kind of man.[/quote]
Exactly. 🙂
Sam i think understands that forgiveness is not only for the person being forgiven but himself too. To not truly forgive in your heart ….well…..you become like Dean. Holding grudges nearly a decade later. It’s like being nearly eaten alive by your own anger.
I think Sam gets that and thats why he forgives….he’s been on both ends so he understands…truely understands what true forgiveness is and how freeing it is.
I’m not sure that I agree that Sam has somehow moved beyond the burden of grudges. He’s had two old grudges, one of them major, flaring up already this season–the Amy resentment of the last episode and his resentment of Dean for making him feel compelled to go back to hunting this year. His “You wanted me here, I”m here” is, to me, indicative of Sam’s resentment of his family’s occupation and the feeling of being forced into it, even this season where he clearly chose to accompany Dean of his own volition. Based on that, I can’t say that we’d have seen a different outcome if Sam been the one possessed, considering his resentments were leaking out without supernatural aid. Sam seems pretty angry himself these days, and cited his anger as one of his biggest reasons for his revenge-seeking tendences for his fall from grace in S4.
Sam’s zen attitude mostly came in S6 and S7, but even then it wasn’t complete. Sam was clearly resentful of the loss of control his memories and the wall presented him. I cite his speech to Dean in 6.22, when it was clear he resented not being able to access his memories. He couldn’t bring himself to absolve Dean of blame in 7.4 for Jess’s death and his not being there, evading with an “It’s complicated.” Now, Sam’s forgiveness of Cas was admirable, but I think it’s a lot easier to forgive someone who isn’t as close to you as Sam and Dean are to each other. It was harder for Dean, in my opinion, because his relationship with Cas was much deeper. You’re correct, though, in that it is easier for Sam to forgive and relate to those in whom he sees part of himself.
I feel like I’ve wandered away from the point I was trying to make, so I’ll sum up quickly. I think Sam can be a very forgiving person. I also think Dean can be. I also think they can both be very angry individuals, and when you scratch the surface some of the things they’ve thought they were okay with they really weren’t, as the Winchesters are both masters of repression. They come by that honestly enough. But yes, Sam’s got his own issues, not quite forgiving moments, and resentments, and they’re as clearly on display as Dean’s were in this episode.
[quote]Sam i think understands that forgiveness is not only for the person being forgiven but himself too. To not truly forgive in your heart ….well…..you become like Dean. Holding grudges nearly a decade later. It’s like being nearly eaten alive by your own anger. I think Sam gets that and thats why he forgives….he’s been on both ends so he understands…truely understands what true forgiveness is and how freeing it is.[/quote]Completely agree Amy.Beautifully written Sam forgives and forgets doesn’t he?
Not really, no. Sam’s human, same as Dean, and he has hang-ups and resentments that have lingered despite his intentions to forgive and forget. Sometimes he has forgiven and forgotten, as has Dean. But as I pointed out above, there are two big instances already this season where his past resentments that seemed laid to rest have come charging back to the forefront. There’s nothing wrong with that, as it’s human nature. But for someone who’s described himself as angry all of his life, I don’t see Sam as someone who lets things go easily if they really harm him, especially if it comes at the hands of family. Which sounds pretty much like Dean, actually. Ah, Winchesters.
Sam is human and Dean is human but they are not the same human.Sorry , I disagree with you. Compared to Dean, Sam forgives easily .The two instances you told ,Amy thing is not old sorry but as you say YMMV. Also Dean still wants Sam with him ,it is not old it is current. So you may not see Sam not holding on to his resentments but for me Sam has been forgive and forget.He has never brought up Dean yanking him from heaven or Cas yanking half of him from hell . I don’t say Sam is a saint but he definitely forgives and till today (at least up to my recollection) after he forgives someone he never brings that up in the show so that is a great trait that Sam has.[quote]I don’t see Sam as someone who lets things go easily if they really harm him, especially if it comes at the hands of family.[/quote]I do see Sam as someone who lets things go easily even if they harm him (Becky), especially if it comes at the hands of family (John), (Dean).
Oh, I can agree that they’re not the same person, and of course they react to things differently. I think it’s definitly a YMMV issue re: Amy, as Sam seemed to have laid that to rest last season by saying Dean was right to kill her, but suddenly doubling back on that this season. I think it’s clear that he’s held onto his resentment towards hunting and his family’s ability to draw him back into hunting this season. He’s brought that up many a time over the course of the series, and it’s back again this season. I agree that he did forgive Cas easily, during his zen period of the Sera Gamble years. I never saw that he believed Dean yanked him out of heaven, though, so I’m not sure where that’s coming from. I’m also not sure wehre the idea of Sam forgiving Becky comes up, as he didn’t seem all that forgiving in 7.8 and has never had occasion to mention her again. I’m not sure either of those examples bolster your argument.
Again, I say there are many instances where Sam has been a forgiving person. I also think he spent the majority of his young life resenting John (and by extension Dean). He only was able to forgive John after he was dead. He has forgiven Dean some things, but clearly by this season he is still holding onto resentments we thought were past, in Amy and in hunting. Scratch the surface and his little brother issues are still going to be there, same as Dean’s big brother issues are. So I’ll agree to disagree. Sam has resentments and trouble forgiving his family at times, same as Dean, and I have no doubt that if he’d been possessed in 8.6, we would have had the exact same result where Sam was suddenly dragging up hurts we thought were long past.
[quote]as Sam seemed to have laid that to rest last season by saying Dean was right to kill her, but suddenly doubling back on that this season.[/quote]Because Dean himself doubled back this season.[quote] never saw that he believed Dean yanked him out of heaven, though,[/quote]Oh! may be not but Dean did yank him out of heaven .[quote]has never had occasion to mention her again. [/quote]This is one of the “benefits” of sam getting less exploration.[quote]I’m not sure either of those examples bolster your argument.[/quote]It does because he forgives them at the end though again YMMVs so….[quote]majority of his young life resenting John[/quote]Once he knew why John did what he did he did not resent John.[quote]He only was able to forgive John after he was dead.[/quote]No, he was able to let go of things after John gave him the courtesy of telling him why John was how he was with him.[quote] Sam has resentments and trouble forgiving his family at times, same as Dean,[/quote]But Dean has trouble forgiving always that is the difference.[quote]I have no doubt that if he’d been possessed in 8.6, we would have had the exact same result where Sam was suddenly dragging up hurts we thought were long past.[/quote]1) I have doubts.
2)Sam was not possessed.I don’t assume the worst till it happens and in this case the scenario you mentioned did not happen.[quote]I never saw that he believed Dean yanked him out of heaven, though,[/quote]Also when he came to know that Dean yanked him out of heaven it was water under bridge and Sam does not bring up such issues because he is forgiving and forgetting.
I feel like we are probably at an impasse here, so I will agree to disagree. Thank you for the discussion.
I agree w/you. I think Sam forgives pretty easily, and even though he raised the issue of Amy, I honestly don’t think he is bitter or resentful over it.
And since Sam is a grown man who can do as he chooses, I don’t think he is blaming Dean for “forcing” him to hunt. Sam is hunting right now for a purpose: to seal the gates of Hell. Once they do that, he plans to bounce. I don’t see him as resenting Dean for dragging him back to this life b/c he doesn’t have to go along w/Dean. Sam’s making his own choices.
[quote] but he was used as Deus ex Machina way too much for my liking. One of the boys in mortal danger? Presto! [/quote]
Hi E!
This is something that concerns me because it was also something I didn’t like. It really reduced the drama when they had an angel who could help them out of any spot of bother. I’ve enjoyed them solving puzzels themselves and not having the angel out card this season. I’ve enjoyed seeing them using their hunter smarts to figure things out and survive. So I’m hoping we don’t have a return to that too!
Thanks for your comment.
Oh yes, I do agree with you and E.
I think that’s why they kept having him be taken out: Splattered by Lucifer in S5, at odds with S&D in S6, dissolved in the water in & crazy in S7… They kept trying to make him impotent.
(Oooh, did I just say that?)
[quote]They kept trying to make him impotent.
(Oooh, did I just say that?) [/quote]
Yes this is one of the problems I had with the character in the later seasons, that he seemed diminished and that he became the brunt of all the jokes. (And yessss, you did just say that!) 🙂
Agreed.
and Sorry again. 😳
But it did allow for Sam to fool him with the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark which was so much fun. And they had a scary standoff!
It would be cool if in the post-apocalyptic world each angel only had specific powers, so they have to work together if they want to cause any more trouble – this might have happened if God got back from his holiday and wasn’t entertained by the mess they made while he was gone. Not sure if that whole idea is more Phillip Pullman or Neil Gaiman…
I loved the dynamic between SS and Cas. I like my Cas with a dark edge; my favorite seasons for him were 4 (especially his utterly magnificent entrance) and 6.
[quote]I like my Cas with a dark edge; my favorite seasons for him were 4 (especially his utterly magnificent entrance)[/quote]
That scene in the barn will always be a favourite. Great episode. Great entrance.
I also really liked the scene in the kitchen with Dean in “Are You There God? It’s Me, Dean Winchester” – “You should show me some respect. I dragged you out of Hell. I can throw you back in.” The way Dean had to look away… I loved Cass when he was all scary like that.
Yes! I rewind that one … a few times … just not to miss anything, like. 😳
[quote]But it did allow for Sam to fool him with the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark which was so much fun. And they had a scary standoff! [/quote]
Oh I loved that scene so much! “Will you? Boy.” LOVE!
‘My true form is the size of your Chrysler building’ is another great line 😀
Of course if I ever have a t-shirt with a tv show reference it will say ‘The Angels have the policebox’ on the front and ‘Don’t piss off the nerd angels’ on the back.
Back to tshirts, eilf?
Yes, I’d like one of those, too. 2 favourite shows!
Yeah, I like the boys doing their own work. Even our beloved Bobby (RIP Bobby, you are sorely missed) did waaaay too much work for those boys sometimes. It’s one of the reasons I really liked Heartache; Sam and Dean spent quite a bit of time investigating. We haven’t seen that in a while.
Greetings, just a quick pop-on to agree with your statement about original Cass. I loved the mysterious and fierce cass of S4. I got a kick out of how he initially intimidated Dean a little. Not easy. Unless you are Ellen, Death or a really pissed off Bobby. In later seasons he became a little too human-like for me (guess that was the point)and a little silly last year. I also agree that they used him too conveniently as the quick fix. Having said all that, I do enjoy the character and Misha. Once I get attached to a character it is hard for me to see them depart even if it is in the best interests of the show. Power mad Cass, wall destroying Cass, insane Cass I could have done without!
[quote]Hi Guys!
I am really going to be watching Sam’s reaction to Cas’s return; I am still hoping that there was some kind of deal in the works for Dean and/or Cas’s return from purgatory, and that maybe some subtle clues might be revealed in Sam’s reaction.
About Cas as a character in general: I am somewhat conflicted about him. I LOVE Misha and love some of the dynamic that he brought to the show particularly in his interactions with Dean. I thought he was best defined in season 4 when his loyalties were ambiguous. His motivations and his actions were really unclear which I found intriguing. Also Cas was badass in season 4 and kind of scary. In season 5 I still liked him, and I liked his rebellion arc, but he was used as Deus ex Machina way too much for my liking. One of the boys in mortal danger? Presto! Cas fixes it. It really killed the sense of danger and drama for me. I liked the Cas as the new God arc in season 6, but it took too long to formulate, and was left hanging for too long.
Season 7’s insane Cas kind of made me a little peeved. He took on Sam’s ‘hell’ and while that is admirable, he only did what he should have done and should not be congratulated or admired for it. If you got roaring drunk and drove your car into your neighbors house, then only said “I’ll pay for that,” do you think they are going to thank you for that? No, they are going to expect you to pay, and probably will sue you to boot. Cas never once asked to be forgiven for destroying Sam. Even though Sam forgave Cas (far too easily if you ask me) Cas never even said “sorry.” I’d like to see Cas come back and finally understand what it is he’s done to Sam and to ask forgiveness. I’d like there to be more of a friendship between Sam and Cas. I think that they will get to bond over Benny maybe. I’d also ilke Cas to be less of a powerful being. He’s at his best when the amount of help he can give (in a supernatural kind of way) is limited. Given the previews it doesn’t look like this will be the case, but I am actually looking forward to seeing the winged guy![/quote]
I have to disagree that season 4 Cas’ motives were unclear. He was Dean’s Ruby. He just never got the hatred that Ruby did which I’ve never understood.
Is it wrong that looking at that first picture, all I can think is “Fooooooorearrrrrrrrrms…”? I’m honestly totally fine with the boys keeping their shirts as long as we get shots like that (I also watch The Vampire Diaries, and the gratuitous shirtlessness on that show is so rampant, it feels more silly than sexy).
I need a like button for your post, Redheadedali. 😉
I totally just scrolled to the top of the page Redheadedali….
Hee, so did I!
I agree, and isn’t it funny how like the Victorians with their ‘little flash of ankle’ we are 😀 Jeez if they aren’t going to take their clothes off then we will just have to admire what we can and guess at the rest ….
Well except in the case of Misha, not that I went on twitter half way through reading this article or anything
Mind you if the guys get to keep their clothes on then the way they strip off the female (bad guy) characters is more than a touch hypocritical…
I love the Vampire Diaries, though I have to say since I started data-mining Supernatural for clues to what the hell is going on, with you all, I begin to find the expositoning (made up word) at the beginning of each episode of TVD a little redundant. Yeah guys this all happened only last week, we remember!
It’s so funny, I had kinda of the opposite seasons from you, Sweet, for liking Cas. I disliked him in 4&5, tolerated him in 6 (until the betrayal), then warmed to him again when he finally made amends for (some) of what he’d done.
I’m actually really looking forward to seeing Cas, as I think this will be the first season where he’s not being used as a wedge between the Winchesters. Because they sure don’t need anymore wedges, LOL! I’m very excited to hear we are going to get some Sam and Cas bonding (hopefully), and a Sam and Cas hug would be very enjoyable, (although I’ll live if we don’t get one) and I wonder what they will both think about Benny. I saw the funniest drawing on Tumblr where Sam and Cas were sitting at a meeting of the “I hate Benny Club” LOL.
I can imagine that every scene with Cas will be an interesting new revelation, what with him being part of the purgatory story, and probably involved in whatever the new angels are up to. And I can’t WAIT until his ol’ buddy Crowley gets a load of Cas- that will be a laugh riot, I’m sure.
A lot of my friends are excited about seeing Amanda Tapping, so that is encouraging, although I’ve never seen her myself.
All in all, this looks to be another awesome episode in an awesome season.
Amanda Tapping is great – they made her ridiculously superhuman in SG1 by the time they were done and she completely kept the character believable.
I am interested in why Cas has new powers though – as people were saying further up the comments it isn’t as if angels weren’t already powerful enough.
I don’t know Amanda Tapping, but these new angels sound really interesting.
And I’m still really interested in hearing Cass’ take on Purgatory – just what exactly has Dean forgotten/mis-remembered????????
Can’t wait.
LOVED Stargate. One of my fav shows along with this one and X-Files. Hmmmm, I see a pattern. Totally off topic here (sorry!) but I would love to see Peter DeLouise direct an episode of Supernatural. I think his style and Supernatural’s would be a good fit.
[quote] I saw the funniest drawing on Tumblr where Sam and Cas were sitting at a meeting of the “I hate Benny Club” LOL. [/quote]
That was a funny drawing 🙂 But one has to remember Benny did save Cass (atleast once) from the Levi.
Regarding what Dean is not remembering – I wonder if Benny did something to leave Cass back in purgatory??? I hope note. But it could be one way for the show to set up some doubts around Benny and cause problems for Dean and his loyalty towards the vampire.
You know, the scene with Dean in the Impala and seeing Cas walking down the road reminds me of the pilot with the Woman in White.
Actually what interest me about Cas return is his acknowledgment on Dean’s Purgatory memory. Is it fake or is it true. Beyond that, I don’t really care if Cas wants to be a hunter as long as he doesn’t tag along with the brothers.
If he has to be in the show then he may as well be like Garth. Pop in from now and then with a case or two and maybe a bit of helping hand.
The appearance of the third party always distract the boys from talking about their problem. It will also provide a distraction for Dean and enable him to postpone talking with Sam.
They really need to throw them in an empty dark room for hours. With nothing to do perhaps they won’t have any choice but talk with each other to keep their sanity.
The dark room is a very good idea. How long do you think they have to be locked there until they open up? I guess, for the amount of issues they have, at least a week!
Yes, but there must be mortal danger or they won’t feel that they need to clear the air “just in case.” Maybe a safe and the air is running out? That might make them talk to each other!
Safe would be a better idea, not that I want them to run out of air …. We couldn’t see those beautiful faces in a dark room, and I wanna see that emotion as these guys reconnect.
If a proper brother-reunion-hug happens in a dark room where no one can see, did it really happen?
It’ll happen, right Carver?
Hi Sweetondean, thanks for the spoiler lite preview. I am looking forward to seeing Cass again, because he looks like the good ‘ole Cass of season 4, i.e. badass. Although I did like his storyline in season 6, I didn’t care for it too much in 7, so I can’t wait for him to to some angel smiting. And we get to see him flash his angel wings! Win/win in my book. Now, let’s hope the issues with our favourite (fictional) brothers don’t get swept under the rug. As you’ve pointed out, TPTB are pretty adept at doing just that. Oh, and I would dearly love to see Cass give Sam a hug. 🙄
I am just so excited about this episode, and that Cass is coming back, that it’s hard for me to focus on anything that has to do with the Trans. I absolutely love this show. I am ready for Castiel to be back in the real world and for his reunion with Dean and Sam!
Just caught AHBL 1&2 on TNT. (Yes, my ‘to-do’ list got screwed)
Guess it’s just going to be an emotional day!
😥
Ok. Here’s how I’m gonna handle this season from now on…
I’m going to anesthetize my emotional being, and keep chanting: Shallow=happy, shallow=happy, shallow=happy…
😉
They keep getting better and better, on the edge of my seat wondering, what’s next?! Great Cass intro, great Sam and Dean moments!
How was the episode?Has it telecasted already? How much of Sam was there?
Sam was barely in the episode. There was no continuation of last week’s issues btw Sam and Dean. It was as if they never had that blow up/argument/disagreement.
Uh . . . I didn’t care for the episode. Dean had a lot of guilt over Castiel, and that was very annoying to me. Thankfully, Castiel helped to end that for him. I would have been very upset if we had to sit through more of Dean’s whacky guilt for things that aren’t his fault. I’m over that!
I felt there were too many plots happening. Crowley abducted a bunch of people to only kill them. I’m over Crowley and have been since Cas “killed” him in S6. I loved that and was hoping he was actually dead. Now, Crowley didn’t kill all the peeps he abducted, but it still bugged me.
Kevin and his mother had their own little plot, which was kind of predictable. And then Sam and Dean had a plot, but the focus was mostly on Dean and his guilt about Castiel.
For me, something is missing from this season. I don’t know what it is though.
I liked Castiel. I hate Crowley and have hated him for a few years now. Kevin and his mother are okay w/me. Castiel met up w/an angel named Naomi at the end. It looks like she’ll be using/manipulating him w/o his knowledge.
I would say the episode was okay. I’ve found most of the episodes this season just okay though. Only a few have been abysmal (i.e., Heartache, Bitten), and none have blown me away w/their greatness. To me, this season isn’t as good or exciting as S6. I quite enjoyed S6 myself.
I second what lala said. Sam has lines, more lines then he usually does when Castiel is in an episode, but absolutely nothing emotional or revealing or anything other than matter of fact. Castiel is closer to what he was in season four, which makes him more palatable to me. Crowley is finally being shown as evil, rather than amusing, which is realistic, but makes me sad. Basically, I think that Sam has been written off by the writers this year. We have Dean’s guilt and camaraderie with Benny and Cas. We have the Cas being manipulated by the angels. We have Benny doing whatever, but getting lots of emotional development. We have Cas remaining in Purgatory so that no one can ever claim that he didn’t pay penance and now we must forgive him for everything.
And Sam hit a dog and met a girl.
Yup. I’m not seeing a story for Sam if this episode was any indication. He did absolutely nothing the entire episode. He gave Dean some advice, talked to Cas, and did some research. Honestly, he could have been removed completely from the episode, and it wouldn’t have, IMO, skipped a beat. He was not necessary or vital to any of the scenes.
ETA: But as someone else mentioned on another board, real Sam made an appearance tonight so that was good. I don’t know where podSam went, but Sam was definitely himself tonight! He didn’t say or do much, but what Sam did say, he did w/sensitivity and compassion. The boys were actually fine tonight and seemed in S1 form.
There was a lot going on, but it was curiously lifeless. Crowley was in fairly witty form, but otherwise not a whole lot of memorable exchanges between the characters. Okay, so Dean didn’t do anything wrong in Purgatory after all that buildup, but he feels guilty anyway. FFS, next he’s going to feel guilty about the sun setting at night.
[quote]next he’s going to feel guilty about the sun setting at night.[/quote] lol..[quote]Dean didn’t do anything wrong in Purgatory after all that buildup,[/quote]Now now ..he is Dean winchester he can’t be wrong..I have grudgingly come to accept that after so many seasons.But all of this unwanted guilt has made Dean unrelatable to me from season5
I just thought the writing for Dean was going to be ballsier than this.
No, Dean is still a tortured soul who is doing his best in the world, but somehow all of his decisions are right, good, true and based on love. Too bad he’s saddled with that ungrateful, stupid always wrong brother Sam.
Dean is wrong plenty. So is Sam on occasion. Snide comments are not necessary to make your point. I am sorry you are not finding much to enjoy this season but there are people who love Dean as much as you love Sam. I love both as much as you love Sam. Please respect that as I try and respect and understand your viewpoint. Thank you.
True but then there is Dean wrong and Castiel wrong and THEN there is Sam wrong.
Dean proves to be wrong over his self imposed guilt and Cas fixes that .Cas self imposes penance on himself and Sam gets called a failure of a brother by Dean last week. This week Sam is all over Dean like a rash . Sam’s story is so weird it belongs on the Unexplained and we are in the same situation with him that we are every season .
But at least Dean can stop feeling guilty well until the next thing he feels guilty over and he can move on from it.
[quote]Snide comments are not necessary to make your point.[/quote]I was not even trying to make a point.It simply a snide remark.Oh! and Sharon has explained it better.
The point being that you are unhappy.
No.I am unhappy but i was not making that point there.
I don’t think RMF was making a snide comment. I love both Dean and Sam, and I would agree with RMF that Dean has not, IMO, made a wrong decision on this show. Miles vary and all that but that’s how I feel.
And I’m not saying Dean should do something bad, but if he did, it would be something new, IMO, for him.
We’ve seen all this angst about Purgatory so some assumed something happened there, that Dean did something “bad,” but he didn’t. He was just feeling guilt for no reason.
I feel the scales are pretty balanced on bad decisions for both brothers. I have no problem with the different viewpoints and some I concur with. Sometimes the way it is delivered just rubs wrong. Dean has been raked over the coals many times for being an ass. Not always without merit. The scales are pretty balanced on the positive side as well. The heroic moments, the times they have had each others backs, good decisions, being able to set aside their differences and still love each other and work well together, among others. I don’t think Sam has been portrayed as stupid, ungrateful and always wrong as percysowner said in above comment. However I know this is a losing battle and mileage does indeed vary 🙂
I guess miles do vary b/c I can’t really think of any “bad” decisions Dean’s made as of yet. I never faulted him for the CRD. I never blamed him for breaking the first seal. I was always on his side re: Ruby. I had no problem w/him killing Amy. Benny seems like a “Edward Cullen” type of vamp (i.e., basically good).
Sam, on the other hand, has made, IMO, obvious bad decisions (i.e., everything from 3.16 to 4.22) – Haha! I’ll just say this, my mom started watching the show, and she will see Sam and say, “What has he done now? He’s always causing trouble!” And she loves BOTH boys. She’s a very, very casual viewer but does see Sam as a problem Dean has to solve on occasion.
So, I guess I would say Sam has been presented as the “bad” brother on several occasions where Dean has never, IMO, been presented that way. I love both brothers though and feel I’m being very objective about it. That’s just how I see the show.
This is how I see the series portraying the brothers.
It is interesting that I’ve always felt the same about Sam’s “bad” decisions. I can’t think of any time that I didn’t at least see Sams’s viewpoint or motivation. Demon blood drinking included. I can forgive him for not looking for Dean, if he truly thought he was dead. I think that is an unpopular decision, not necessarily bad. I hope it doesn’t come down to that! I like to think I’m fairly unbias also. It just goes to show you we are all looking at things through different lenses (is that the plural of lens?).
I always could see Sam’s POV before, but I did consider that he made very bad choices S4. Dean has made mistakes as well and perhaps they intended for those to have the same weight but I don’t think they ever did. They always have given him more of a voice in supporting his POV IMO. Most of the I could see the reason for story telling purposes. But I do think they’ve continued to neglect Sam’s POV past the time when it mattered to story and, last season especially, it was to the determent of the story.
I hate to harp on Amy but the Mentalists highlighted. It honestly doesn’t matter which side of killing her or not killing her you’re on, the point remains that SAM considered his view to be the right one. HE thought she deserved a second chance. And instead of arguing the point, Dean has his say and Sam just says he’s right at the end. I honestly thought at the time that they were going somewhere with that. They were going to show Sam didn’t trust himself and he’d have to learn to trust his instinct again. Because otherwise why the abrupt about face- but no Dean was just right. That really pissed me off and STILL pisses me off every time I watch that episode. But I will say they are correcting that a little this year. But I still need more.
Replying to you and Leah in What’s happening to Sam thread.
So many things about last year left a bad taste. I never disagree that Sam’s POV isn’t neglected. I just don’t see him portrayed as the awful, bad, stupid, lesser brother. Sam’s character needs some love from the show, no doubt way overdue. I also don’t think the RANT should be continued to be brought up as to how Sam is perceived by Dean. Better brother yada yada. A lot has been corrected this year, I think, and agree much more is needed. Let’s see if they fulfill that promise.
I know you guys don’t agree with me but I thought this was a great episode! The best of the season. Sam was himself. BIG PLUS. Brothers actually talk and so many other things. I will save those for the reviews. Sam’s story will come!! I know everyone is disappointed about lack of Sam exposition but if you could set that aside for now you might be able to see what a good episode this was.
(Edited by Alice – Moved to the “What is Happening to Sam Winchester?” thread).
(Edited by Alice – Moved to the “What is Happening to Sam Winchester?” thread).
(Edited by Alice – Moved to the “What is Happening to Sam Winchester?” thread).
(Edited by Alice – Moved to the “What Is Happening to Sam Winchester?” thread).
You guys are getting WAY too repetitive with the Sam complaints. We know. I’m trying to keep this discussion out of every single thread. I can find evidence of this point being made at least once in this discussion already. We have Sam threads for the frustration. I’m moving chunks of this discussion to a Sam thread.
Updated – I did keep a bunch of comments that were related to the episode. It was the ones that veered away from the topic that I ended up moving. I tried to keep whole chains together, so that’s why there might be a few remaining in question up thread. I’m still trying to perfect this system!
Hi Alice, my apologies for my part in the off-topics! I sometimes respond to a comment not really knowing where I’m at, threadwise. 🙂 I will try and pay more attention.
Leah – I led with Sam because AnonymousN specifically asked about him. Nothing much happened with Sam in this episode. But I laid out my problems with the episode.
I felt too many plots were occurring at once. I grew bored during Crowley’s interrogation of those people and his needless killing of them. I haven’t been amused by Crowley since S5. Someone needs to kill him already.
I don’t mind Kevin Tran or his mom, but I guess I don’t like the ensemble feel of the show. I don’t hate outside characters or anything. I’m not saying S/D shouldn’t have friends but I prefer the focus to be on them. The show is definitely changing, and I’m not sure if I like it. The show is losing, IMO, what made it unique.
This episode was okay to me. No episodes have blown me away this year.
lala, even though I really liked this one I always enjoy reading the take of others. Ha, we are almost in complete opposition. Not crazy about the Trans, thinking they might get old. But Garth kinda grew on me so we’ll see.
Thought Crowley was gleefull evil this time. He really feels like a proper demon now to me.
I have to admit to nostalgia for the past seasons. The jury is still out for me on the new direction but it is head and shoulders above S7. I bought the DVD even though I don’t have many episodes I would care to revisit. The brothers seem much more engaged this season. Not always positively. Someone on the spec thread said jokingly that that Sam must be bi-polar, I had to laugh because he is all over the place this year.
Yeah. . . that was another problem I had w/the episode, Leah. I felt there wasn’t a proper continuation of the blow up from last week. It was like it never happened. Plus, realSam came out to play, which makes the podSam we’ve been seeing even more weird! I wonder if the writers collaborate so the episodes can follow each other? It should never be obvious that different writers write the episodes, right?
I have always liked Garth 🙂 I love DJ Qualls, and I like Garth. I liked him last year too. I never had a problem w/him.
I was probably the only one cheering when Castiel “torched” Crowley’s bones in S6. I was so happy to see him go up in a puff of smoke and was so saddened when they took that away! The actor is good but I’ve grown tired of Crowley, in general. Honestly, I don’t think I was ever much of a “Crowley” fan.
Post-Kripke years, I would rate S6 the absolute BEST. I loathe and despise S7. I would likely only rewatch HCW and maybe Plucky’s. That said, I’m not sure this season is much better actually. I’m going to reserve my opinion on the season, as a whole, until it’s done. I’ve found most of the episodes this year to be very blah/meh/so-so/okay. No episode has blown me away yet like HCW. I think that was the last episode that truly captivated me. I rewatched it numerous times! It was so good.
Well, I agree! I thought it was a great episode, and I love seeing the Trans again- they could be in every episode as far as I’m concerned.
And my favorite line of the ep was Sam’s “I was gonna say you look like you’d seen a ghost, but you would have been stoked.”
(Edited by Alice – Moved to the “What is Happening to Sam Winchester?” thread).
(Edited by Alice – Moved to the “What is Happening to Sam Winchester?” thread).
[quote]
ETA: But as someone else mentioned on another board, real Sam made an appearance tonight so that was good. I don’t know where podSam went, but Sam was definitely himself tonight! He didn’t say or do much, but what Sam did say, he did w/sensitivity and compassion. The boys were actually fine tonight and seemed in S1 form.[/quote]
I agree. Sam was more himself in this episode. Not quite sure what happened that made both S & D repress the real issue between them, but Sam did seem more like Sam….. just not enough of him in the episode.
Great Cas, great Dean, evil Crowley is back, Kevin & mom were fine, interesting new angels.
I just wanted more of Sam & Dean solving their issues, not ignoring them.
And not much in the Tshirt department, either, unfortunately. :-*
[quote]absolutely nothing emotional or revealing or anything other than matter of fact.[/quote]God forbid if we know anything before second half.Let the fandom marinate in Sam hate till they reveal whatever Sam did in between when Dean “died” and he met Amelia. And then maybe one 15 minute segment about how Sam’s world “imploded” and we are done.But everything about Dean should be unambiguous.I don’t know whether i will download the episode today.I will see what Alice has to Say.
edited
I thought some of you guys really Like Sam? So why are you being so hard on him? I don’t read anywhere else and could care less what “Sam haters” have to say, some here seemed more concerned of his image than they do of Sam/Jared. Jared says he is really excited of where they are going this season with Sam, so therefore I am too. He said the story will be told of both Dean and Sam so I am willing to wait and enjoy the shows we are given. I’m new here I am sorry if I stepped on toes and am sure you will set me straight, but take a look at what you write with fresh eyes. It seems you have nothing nice to say about Sam and sorry but that does upset me and probably others that would post otherwise.
ok sorry that’s all I might be back, have to think on it.
(Edited by Alice – Moved to the “What is Happening to Sam Winchester?” thread).
We do like Sam. We just don’t care for the writing for him. That’s all. Plus, I don’t like the story for him. It’s made him appear very OOC and unlikeable to me.
And for me, the show is not entertaining me as I wait for Sam’s story to unfold. When LOST first aired, I was crazy about it. There were so many mysteries and puzzles to figure out. At some point, I realized I would never learn the secrets or mysteries but LOST managed to do what Supernatural isn’t: it entertained me. Each episode was stand alone great and very entertaining and emotional.
Maybe Sam has hallucinated Amelia or maybe the angels convinced him to not search for Dean. . . I don’t know. All I do know is that I’m not finding the journey particularly entertaining. The episodes aren’t horrible but they aren’t great either. I found the journey to discover Sam’s soullessness to be highly entertaining! I looked forward to every episode in the first half of S6. I don’t have the same feeling this time around.
And Dean’s Purgatory story seems to have ended. That was good but the PTSD didn’t last and he didn’t do anything bad there so. . . . I guess that’s it for that story!
I am a trifle disappointed the tension and misunderstandings between the brothers was not more developed, but that then the reality is that relationships are like that. They will end if the only conversation is about each other. I have decided to reason that like real life it was a lull that was needed and the fact is, Sam and Dean love each other but with their stories they could talk hours about each other and we would have no plot to the episode. A writer’s dilemma certainly, how to make it real and entertaining on all levels – complicated by the fact after 8 years we as fans are also part of that relationship too. And are clamouring to talk it out. Any counsellor would also say “rest” don’t push the conversation, get to know each other in the present moment again. Garth was right. I think we were meant to listen to him as much as Sam and Dean.
So I put my disappointment aside, my desire for more relationship conversation and marvelled at the packed story, (perhaps a little too packed in how it unfolded but a small quibble) cheered at the set up of the new part of the story – heaven and the new angels. I love Amanda Tapping so that was so exciting to welcome her. I love Cass and pleased he is not the dreamy loopy Cass (as funny as that was I would be annoyed if it went on too long). I loved the reality of how Dean’s guilt and over extended responsibility made him remember what happened so poorly. So real. And Cass’s compassion was lovely to behold. I loved that Sam was dear and sweet and wanting everything to be alright and loving – for at his character’s heart I think that is his driving point – the part that makes him react with obsessive compulsive behaviour to try to control the situation, the part that makes him run, and the part that makes him so angry all the time when he thinks he might have a handle on how they can be peaceful and enjoy life yet Dean is so far from alright. Though as I end this long rambling note I will also say I wish the writers could find a way to have Sam talk about it…rather than having Dean’s reactions tell us about it. Not that I ever mind Dean’s reactions.
All this to say as a single standing episode, great drama and with the return of Cass…I was happy. As a deeper development of Sam and Dean – I shall have to wait and that is okay. I am so happy to be watching in the 8th season.
JoRuth
Yes, I agree, well said.
I am here for the ride and trust that both boys will get their story told, maybe not as fast as we want,but there a story being told spread out over 23 episodes. I will be very disappointed if Sam’s story isn’t fleshed out, but I am willing to wait to see before prejudging it. I personally have never felt that he got the short end of the stick, I think it evens out in the end, no matter what decisions, good or bad one of them make, they are Sam and Dean, the heart of the show and that will never change.
JoRuth & Aelaine, I agree with you both. I loved the episode, and as much as Sam seemed to be a secondary player, I’m sure his story will come in due time.
I loved the episode, especially for a Bruckner and Ross-Lemming outing, I thought it was tightly plotted and well paced. I felt like we needed to see the Trans again and get some insight on the tablets. This episode seemed well-timed to me. Once again, I am fine with the lack of Sam info, but I know that this is a sore point for many fans. I am still hopeful that it’s coming and all in due time. And like I’ve said before, I refuse to complain until after it doesn’t work, not before, so for the moment I am content. I thought for an episode that was not Sam centric, that he was fairly present and supportive; he seemed more involved that he usually is when the plot does not focus on him, and for that I am happy. I enjoy many aspects of the show, and even though I would have liked to have had more Sam focus (I am always up for more Sam!), I am fine with getting some Cas/Crowley/Trans focus here as well.
My only gripe was in the Dean guilt thread. I really am hoping that all that angst he has felt so far this season wasn’t based on him misremembering his own culpability in getting out of purgatory. It doesn’t make much sense to me; I mean, I know Dean has an overactive sense of guilt, but to go so far as to fabricate entire scenarios in which he does wrong so that he can flagellate himself with it? If he says he DOESN’T want to feel like he’s failed Cas then why is he creating false memories in which he does just that? Does he like to punish himself that much? I’d actually rather have Dean have something to actually feel guilty about than to find out that he’s blowing up his own sense of guilt so completely that he’s not even remembering correctly. Yuck, not liking that; self martyrdom is not an attractive trait IMO. I almost wondered if Cas actually changed Dean’s memory away from the truth when he mind melded with him. Anyway, that whole scene seemed so out of whack to me that I wondered if there was more to this part of the story then Dean beats himself up for no reason, again. Absolutely LOVED Cas telling Dean that he wasn’t responsible for everything. Understatement of the century! Anyway, I am hoping that there is more to Dean’s side of things than Dean is fabricating things out of thing air to feel guilty about simply to feed his insatiable need to feel guilty about everything. I feel like it diminishes his character and his ability to be grounded in the real world.
I loved Cass telling Dean you can’t save everyone though you try. It seem to touch Dean. I loved the scene with S&D when they have a real conversation and Sam is trying to comfort Dean. It is more the Sam of other seasons. Something did seem off about Dean misremembering events to feed his need to blame himself for all things. Is he really THAT messed up? Not as much angst(sorry E)but a great fast moving episode IMO.
Hi Leah! Yes, not much angst…. more’s the pity. I’ll live! 😀 It was nice to see compassionate Sam, I’ve missed him.
I hope that there is more to Dean’s side of things. It seems incredibly one dimensional if its all about Dean’s need to feed his own sense of guilt. I think purgatory should stand for more than that. I’d like to see that Dean actually does have something to feel guilty about and that that is ok if you feel bad, ask for forgiveness and learn from your mistakes. All the other characters have been there, why not Dean?
Something did occur to me though; we know that Naomi has had a “conversation” with Cas, but what if she’s had “conversations” with both Sam and Dean too. The amount of manipulation that COULD be going on is really frightening if you think about it.
Love that idea. Those those angels are just manipulating fools aren’t they??!!! It is crazy that angels can be bad and vampires can be good. Crazy SPN world. I am hooked for now, gotta see it to the end.
(Edited by Alice. Moved to the “What is Happening to Sam Winchester?” Thread.)
(Edited by Alice – Moved to the “What is Happening to Sam Winchester?” thread).
(Edited by Alice – Moved to the “What is Happening to Sam Winchester?” Thread)
Alice, apologies I know this thread is off topic anyway, and am sorry for that!
It was rather less off-topic before it got separated from the person it was replying to.
No worries, we are still trying to work that out. They’re good points, as were all the comments here, I just need to move the certain things to another place. I’m also trying to work out the process. Technically right now, it’s a bit of a problem. I’ll eventually get it working though.
I’m a Castiel fan, but I [i]love [/i]how he acts as if he had nothing to do w/Sam making the wrong choice. He was locked up for reason, Cas, as he had proven himself completely incapable – at the time – of making the right choices!