sweetondean’s Wrap Up of “Supernatural” 8.01 – “We Need To Talk About Kevin”
And we’re back! Feel good? Does to me that’s for sure. I never realise how much I miss this show until the first episode of the new season and then I’m all, Ohhhh,ahhhhh,*sigh of relief*.
Let’s start at the beginning shall we? “We Need To Talk About Kevin”. I liked it. I liked this opener. It set up a lot of intriguing questions that can act as excellent starting points for a season long arc and beyond. I’m not just talking about the story of the Word of God and the possibility of locking up all the demons for all time; I’m talking about the character setups. I liked the character stuff. I liked it a lot.
I loved the opening scene in the woods. I love how Dean was reintroduced to the world. He was totally feral. The sprint past the tent. The confrontation with the camping kids. How he grabs their backpack and splits. He’s like an animal. Startled, edgy and trying to survive. I completely understand how Dean would find Purgatory “pure”. He’s always struggled with the greys in hunting. Right back to the first time we met Ty Olsson actually, in the season 2 episode “Bloodlust,” when Dean realised not everything was as cut and dried as John Winchester had taught him; “I wish we never took this job, just… jacked everything up,. What if we killed things that didn’t deserve killing?” Ever since that point, the line in the sand has blurred. He’s become friends with an Angel, tolerated demons, become an ally with Death, let witches live, let a Skinwalker live to be patted another day. Things lost clarity for him. Dean’s world became full of murky grey and I think he struggled with that. In Purgatory, he was back to a world where it was easy to recognise evil. There was no, do they deserve it, should I, or shouldn’t I. There was no one to discuss it with, talk over the morality of the issue at hand. No one to question his motives, no one to question his actions. The choice was kill or be killed. Easy. I totally get why Dean, on some level, would dig Purgatory. I understand why he considered it “pure.”
Part of me likes where Dean is and part of me doesn’t. Maybe I should clarify that. I very much like whom Dean has come out of Purgatory as. In stark contrast to his season 7 drunk and depressed state, he’s focused, powerful and kickass. This is a Dean I can get onboard with, well technically I’ll get on board with any Dean, but you know what I’m saying. This is a Dean Winchester that feels right. He’s always been an emo and angsty boy, but he’s always been strong and dedicated, someone you could turn to and rely on, but the last couple of years beat him down and he became a shadow of the person he once was. I never loved him any less, but I hurt for him terribly. Purgatory Dean seems…. cleansed. He’s regained his mojo, his Deanness. In fact he’s Dean on steroids, which brings me to the part I don’t like. No that’s wrong, the part that worries me. Dean’s great beauty has always been in his humanity. He may be a hunter but he’s incredibly human. He feels deeply for those lives affected by him or by the things he hunts. He leaps in front of strangers, not because he’s cavalier in the face of death but because he’s a born protector. He worries about who he is, what the life is doing to him and those around him. He wears his heart on his sleeve. He’s not afraid to show emotion. I don’t want that to change. I don’t want this new Dean to lose any of that. I want his humanity to remain intact. I do think the Purgatory experience will soften as he gets used to the world up top again and he’s forced to remember that in our world, not everything is clear cut. I’m ever so thankful that he’s come out with new purpose and a sharp edge, gosh I’m glad about that, but I just don’t want him to lose his soft centre.
Which brings me to Sam, who is Dean’s soft centre. Poor Sammy, I’ve been seeing him getting a bit of sledging since the episode aired, but I’m going to give him a break. I’m ok with Sam and his decision. I get it. I understand. Here’s where my thinking has led me.
Here’s a guy who just had every last vestige of family ripped from him. This life, this hunting life has taken every single person he loved. His mother, girlfriend, father, friends, Cass, Bobby and the person he loves most, Dean. Everything, everyone gone. I feel like his reaction was one of shock. He no longer had control over anything. There was nothing he could do about any of it. I think it was very pointed that he said he fixed the car and hit the road. When Dean has been in a similar situation, he fixes the car. When the Impala got totalled and their father died, Dean focused on fixing the car. He didn’t know what else to do, so he fixed the car because he could do that and it stopped him having to face anything else. When Cass went all vengeful God and Sam’s wall collapsed, Dean fixed the car; “Imma fix this car. Because that’s what I can do.” There’s a level of control in that. It’s like; this is the one thing I still have control over. Sam didn’t know what to do, so he fixed the car and then he hit the road. That in itself speaks to me.
Then he ran over that dog.
I think the dog is the impetus to everything that followed. They way Sam responded to hitting the dog, the way he was screaming and freaking out at that nurse, that wasn’t so much about the dog as far as I’m concerned, that was about everything else. That was Sam’s stressed out reaction to everything. Guilt and fear and grief and loss and loneliness all there, spilling out as this helpless animal lay in his arms. I think this dog probably gave him a focus that he’d not had since everything was torn away from him and he was left standing staring into the space where his brother had once been. Then he hits the dog and the woman is thrown into his path and he anchors on to both of them because they’re the first real, tangible thing he’s had to hang onto since Dean disappeared. I get it Sam and I’m cool with it.
Why would he want to continue a life that he never wanted in the first place? He never chose hunting and hunting has destroyed everything it’s touched. Sure, Sam said he was good with it now, he couldn’t go back to his old life and I’m sure he convinced himself of that, until the life forced upon him, evaporated before his eyes. I’d prefer this for Sam than either of the Sams who dealt with losing his brother in the past. Robotic Sam and blood chugging Sam. Sam who drank and never slept and tried to sell himself to the nearest demon to bring his brother back. I don’t want to think of him trudging across the country obsessively searching for something he doesn’t even knows exists to help a brother who he doesn’t even know is alive or dead. I don’t wish that on him no matter how much I love the brothers and their relationship. This new life, to me was a much healthier path to take and I hope he found some happiness in it. I really do. Because he’s not had a lot of happiness since he was 6 months old and he deserves a taste of it. Even if it can’t last, because we know it can’t and won’t. He was right, people die all the time, and they can’t be the sole people on earth whose task it is to save everyone. How can one person do that anyway? It must have been horrifically daunting for him when first faced with this new situation. He didn’t know where anyone was, he didn’t know if they were alive or dead, so Sam chose to live, instead of live a half life in hope of something he couldn’t be sure would ever return. That sits well with me in relation to who Sam is and the journey he’s taken. Did he stop thinking about Dean? I bet you he thought of him every damn day. People lose people, they move forward, they move on with life, but they never forget and they never let go and I guarantee you Sam never let go of Dean in his heart. Sam is a damn good person and I never doubt that he loves Dean, ever.
I also think there’s more going on with Sam than we know, obviously. I mean, he says the relationship is over, but he was clearly with Amelia at the time Dean reconnected with Sam. Though, that was weird don’t you think, how she just watched him leave. It felt to me like this is something maybe he does, goes off on his own for a while, so she’s used to it? Because it’s not like she said see you later, bye, ring me, she just quietly watched him leave,.it was almost like he snuck out and she wasn’t surprised. So there’s something going on there and there’s more to that relationship than he’s giving Dean right now. I certainly don’t think it’s no longer a happening thing.
Which brings me to Sam and Dean. No matter what, no matter what’s going on in Sam’s life, no matter how hurt or abandoned by his brother Dean may feel, nothing will ever keep them apart. They fell back into each other’s lives in a nanosecond. They may be on slightly different pages right now, but they’re certainly reading the same book. Sam was watching every move Dean made, every twitch, every stressful look at a vending machine full of choice, he even bought his brother a burger, which Dean was obviously surprised and touched by. He’s watching out for Dean and I don’t think it’s out of guilt. They’re going to be ok, because they’re always ok and for me, that was in evidence here in this episode. It was a start and it felt like a promising one with plenty to work with. It’s going to take time, they’ve been apart for a year after all, there’ll be lots of angsty bumps in the road, but you know that they’ll always have that “deep abiding love for each other” as Dean said slightly sarcastically.
I really enjoyed their conversation in the motel room when Sam tried to explain what happened with the dog and the girl. I thought that was a fabulous moment. They looked and sounded so grow’d up there, it was a rather grown up connection,until Dean and his lines about not taking a joint from Don and the letting the dog in the car! Did you also note that Dean was on the floor? He would have spent the past year on the ground, lying in the dirt. The bed would have been so foreign to him, the comfort so foreign that he sat on the floor. Damn. That said more about where Dean’s at than practically anything else.
I’m intrigued by the introduction of Benny. So Dean bonded with Benny. I’m sure they went through some crap together to get topside and a friendship was obviously born. It doesn’t bother me. Yeah he’s a vampire, but I guess when faced with a situation like Dean was, you hang on to whatever can get you out of that bad place, kind of like Sam and the dog and the girl. I see parallels between Dean’s grasp at friendship with Benny and Sam’s relationship with Amelia. I like Benny a lot. I know he’s trouble, I’m not sure what kind of trouble yet, except that it’ll be big trouble and Sam’s not going to like it and that’s part of the reason Dean’s lying. The rest of the reason is so mysterious! It must be bad. Just the way Dean speaks to Benny in some kind of, let’s not talk about it, what happened in Purgatory stays in Purgatory code. But there’s also softness in his voice. There’s genuine affection in his tone. I’m intrigued to see that Dean has made another friend. I wonder if one day he might have a human friend (other than Sam of course)!
I can’t help wonder if whatever happened in Purgatory is something to do with Cass. Dean had Benny’s soul shoved up his arm. Cass can touch souls. What if Cass helped them escape and Dean willingly left him behind. Castiel’s sacrifice for redemption? What if Cass was trying to come too but “let go” and only Dean and Benny got out. What if Dean chose Benny over Cass for some reason? I’m just grasping at all sorts of straws here, but it seems like such a big, nasty secret Dean has, it’s got to be a hum-dinger and I can only think the worst thing he could do in Sam’s eyes is leave Cass behind, especially in favour of a monster.
And speaking of big, nasty, I am totally stoked that Crowley is the big bad this season. This makes everything so personal. He’s screwed the brothers (figuratively speaking), every which way but Sunday over and over. He knows them, knows their signature moves so to speak. They’ve all been balancing this you scratch my back, I’ll rip yours to shreds relationship for so long now, to have them at logger heads is going to be all kinds of fun. Crowley is awesome. Powerful, powerful snarky and joy to see on screen. I’m going to thoroughly enjoy their repartee and their clashes, for however long it lasts into this season and beyond. Though I do wonder, will this finally be the season we see Crowley get his comeuppance?
Plus of course there’s Kevin, we need to talk about him,obviously. I’m enjoying Kevin. I quite liked him at the end of season 7, but he’s really upped his game and I’m pretty happy with how that character played out in this opening episode. He adds a nice dimension to the boy’s relationship and I think he’ll be a good bouncing off point for the brothers to reconnect.
One thing that interested me is that this season is about the Word. It’s about information being given by God and yet it’s also about the information being withheld by the boys. I think it’s really interesting to frame their unspoken secrets up against a quest for the Word of God. They seek out the truth as they hold the truth back. Stark contrasts in motivations between the over all arc and the character arcs.
If I had to nitpick, there would be two things,I didn’t dig The Road So Far as much as I usually do. I felt that Jethro Tull song was not the best choice and it was a really messy edit with a weird and abrupt ending. But you know, it still gave me goosebumps. The other nitpick is Amelia. This is not about me passing judgement on her as a character,because we didn’t see enough of her to do that, but I am going to pass judgement on her as a vet! What vet would let a dog, with several leg fractures and internal bleeding, 1. Out of the hospital and 2. Into the arms of some dude who said the dog wasn’t his and he lives on the road! It drove me mad. I thought, WHAT???? What is she doing? For a start, it sounds like that dog needs to be inside on a drip for a while if nothing else! But then to just go, hey nurse hand the dog to this stranger with fabulous hair (sorry, there is no way I can get through this with out noting the gloriousness of Sam Winchester’s hair). She even called the dog a trophy. Ick. I couldn’t decide if this was characterisation to push us into a place of not liking Amelia, or just lack of research into vet methodology! I did say I was nitpicking, but geesh it irritated me! I wouldn’t be taking my dog to her clinic!
I should also mention, I watched this episode on the big screen in a theatrette with 30 other Aussie Supernatural fans. It was our very own premiere party, complete with goodie bags containing pies, teddy bear cookies, holy water, Leviathan goo, little green soldiers and a variety of other way cool Supernatural stuff. It was so much fun. We oooo’d, we ahhhh’d!
And I wouldn’t be sweetondean if I didn’t talk about how freakin’ smokin’ hot Purgatory Dean is. Smokin’. SMOKIN’! How can you whack blood and grime on someone and make them better looking? How? But boy oh boy,I may have made a couple of little noises here and there, Imma gonna enjoy Purgatory Dean, oh yes.
Anyhoo, all in all,I think this was a great start to season 8. It was intrigue upon intrigue upon intrigue. But what I really loved was that so much of it was character based. In the last couple of years we seemed to have moved away from the character stuff and more to the big monster story stuff. But this was all character, all deep and murky and mysterious and it got me so excited to see what happens next.
So until next week people,because I can say that now,.NEXT WEEK. Ah, it sure feels good to have my boys back.
What were your thoughts on the opening episode? What do you think is going on with Cass and with Dean and Benny and do you think there’s more to Sam’s situation than meets the eye? Who was standing outside Sam’s house? (Looked like the collar was popped). Let me know, because I need more theories!
Thanks for reading.
– sweetondean
Wow, Amy, great review. Your take on Sam gave me a new, better perspective on his behavior, as I was really distressed by his not even attempting to find out what happened to Dean. I do believe there is much more to this, but I feel a little better about it. Can’t wait to see what happens next. I must say that so far I can’t stand Amelia! Love Benny, though, and Kevin was great.
Perfect recap. I agree with everything. You read my mind about liking Benny but having concerns about his and Dean’s big bad secret. I too am okay with Sam. And although I know many are not, if you listen to the recent on set interview by Jared, he seems plenty okay with the direction also. Loved their chat in the motel and how grown up it felt. Thanks for your review.
I loved this episode so much when I really expected to be disappointed after the spoilers. I get this Sam, and I think he’s actually in a pretty good place right now, at least in terms of his mental health. The glorious hair helps.
Oh, Dean, we missed you!! The purgatory sword thingy he was waving was so badass!
As for the brothers, I really don’t see the rift that many people are talking about. Sure, they’re still “catching up”, if I may, but Sam’s burger gesture and Dean looking at him silently right before the Amelia flashback speaks volumes. They’re going to be ok.
How intriguing is this Benny guy? I dig him in the sunglasses!
Amelia, I’ll reserve my judgment for until I see more of her. If she’s on the heels of a devastating loss, as the spoilers have mentioned, I’ll even forgive her for pushing that poor dog on a freaked out Sammy.
Although Locomotor Breath was a strange choice, I liked the Styx song that came after. I discovered Styx after hearing Renegade play at the end of Night Shifter and I like Man in the Wilderness.
We had a premiere party too, three of us with a huge tv, and man, the episode looked good in HD.
I %100 agree! WHEE, yay boys!! I saw a great review where the writer pointed out that Sam is flight response and Dean is fight response – if fandom would chill long enough to remember that this has always, always ALWAYS been the case, they might not have been so surprised. 😉
And not to harp on the ONE negative thing, but OMG THANK YOU, I am a vet tech and I watch with a veterinarian at her house every week, and we were both like OH HEEEELL NO over Amelia. Just … SO MUCH NO. NO. NOOO.
*headdesk*
[quote]I saw a great review where the writer pointed out that Sam is flight response and Dean is fight response – if fandom would chill long enough to remember that this has always, always ALWAYS been the case, they might not have been so surprised. 😉 [/quote]
Um. No. Season 1 – Jess is killed by YED. Sam’s reaction is “we have work to do.” He’s champing at the bit all season to meet up with John so that they can all hunt down YED together and he can get his revenge for Jess. It’s Dean who wants to avoid the confrontations.
Season 2 – They had no new leads on YED so they were both just hunting. But neither was fleeing anything.
Season 3 – Dean has a contract on his life. Sam wants to learn to use his powers so that they can confront Lilith and get Dean out of his contract. Dean just wants to avoid talking about it.
Season 4 – Sam is all about wanting to fight Lilith. Dean is about avoiding dangerous confrontations.
Season 5 – Sam pushes the plan to say yes to Lucifer, which would mean bringing the fight to Lucifer, and hopefully putting him back in his cage.
Season 6 – (first half) RoboSam is about aggressively hunting. Dean is about saving Sam. (second half) Sam wants to confront his past by remembering what happened. Dean wants to play it safe and encourages Sam not to scratch the wall.
Season 7 – Dean is about hunting down Dick. Sam is the passive one this season.
In more seasons than not, Sam has been the one forcing the confrontations with their issues or enemies, whereas Dean has the tendency to try to avoid their issues, or play it safe.
Thank you. Even the times Sam left the family or Dean it wasn’t what I would call flight. Going to Stanford was going toward something, not just fleeing hunting. Leaving Dean in Hunted, was Sam proactively looking into why his father wanted him dead. Both times Dean died in MS and NRFTW, Sam did avoid Bobby, but continued to hunt for ways to save Dean, in MS by tracking The Trickster and before Dean came back by trying to make a deal, then working with Ruby to confront and exorcise demons without killing the hosts. As for avoiding Bobby, for all season seven spent trying to convince us that Bobby was a surrogate father to both Sam and Dean, I never quite bought it. He was important, but not a replacement for John. Furthermore, I believe he was closer to Dean than Sam, so Sam not turning to Bobby didn’t surprise me.
Amy as a child offered to run away with Sam and Sam did NOT flee. In After School Special, Sam eventually stood up to the bully. According to Dean when Sam was still living with Dean and John they were at each others throats fighting, and Dean was in the middle. In fact we see them arguing and Sam doesn’t walk away.
Yes, Sam ran away from home ONE time as a child. We don’t know what prompted it. It was indicated that it was the only time he ran. Sometimes kids do that. The only other time I remember that Sam actually “ran away” was when he realized that his continued desire for demon blood was a hindrance in fighting demons. He also ran when Lucifer claimed him as his vessel. Again, I saw this more as running to Dean to strategize how to deal with being made to hold the ultimate evil. Since Lucifer wasn’t there physically, Sam couldn’t fight him at least not alone. That time DEAN was the one fleeing the relationship and refusing to see Sam.
Dean does throw himself into a fight more readily than Sam, but I have not seen Sam have a large flight response. He tends to think before he acts and once he makes up his mind he tends to be stubborn, but I don’t see him running away. The Dean fights, Sam runs away motif is one I just don’t see.
I totally agree with you on Sam and Dean. I love how the writers have set the table so the story can unravel and we can find out more about both brothers. There is nobody better than Dean in badass mode, but you are right – it is Sam that will pull him back to his humanity. I am particularly happy to read your interpretation of Sam. I understand people all have their own opinions, but I feel sad when I read about the folks that think if Sam does not react exactly how they want or if they are not given his full story in episode 1, that somehow the character has been destroyed. I just want to beg them to give it time and let the story unfold. Rome was not built in a day and a year is not explained in a half hour – not fully anyway, and not if you are going to have a really good, character driven season.
I also agree with you on Benny, Crowley and Kevin, but have some thoughts on Amelia. First, I wonder if she realized this guy was hanging by a thread, and thought the dog could be therapy for him, as well as a way to help the dog. I used to work at a place where we used dogs to help people with emotional problems. We did a lot of prep and follow up, don’t get me wrong, but you would be amazed at the results for both animals and people! Second, I am not sure she gave him the dog right there. My impression was she got him to agree to take the dog, but he was not ready to be released. In the meantime, Sam would ave stuck around visiting the dog, rather than continuing to wander, and perhaps that is how Amelia and Sam got to know each other better – and how she maybe started helping him too.
All in all, loved the episode and your review. Dying for next week here – but t is good anticipation because I am a passenger waiting to see where the driver takes me.
[quote]Which brings me to Sam, who is Dean’s soft centre. Poor Sammy[/quote]
To quote Sam: “It’s Sam. Sammy is a chubby twelve-year-old.”
I’m pulling this quote because reading that line, I thought it struck at a different angle to a lot of the debate about Sam’s choices over the past few weeks. I thought the contrast in DSOTM between Dean’s dream Sam – young Sammy hugging and idolizing big brother Dean – and Sam’s dream Sam – independent Sam who moved out and got his own place and his own dog as a teenager – was brilliant. It also reflects the divide in the fandom.
There are the fans who hated the changes to Sam in season 4, who want Sam to stay Sammy – an innocent, idealistic kid who worships his older brother. And there are the fans who maybe didn’t like the demon blood, but who still liked the complexity that Sam’s arc introduced, and who cheered when Sam forced Dean to acknowledge him as a grownup. Those fans want to see Sam as a mature adult, portrayed by the show as an equal to Dean.
This may be overgeneralizing, but it seems like many fans who prefer Sammy are OK with Sam being shown to be weaker than Dean and breaking – taking care of himself even if that meant he wasn’t there for his big brother. Whereas the fans who expect Sam to be an equal are not willing to give him this break. Adults sometimes falter and lose faith, but they don’t just abandon their responsibilities, like Kevin, without being scorned by society, and they don’t throw out their phones when their family has gone missing.
Anyway, so while I don’t agree with everything you said, I like the way you presented your arguments … nice review.
Cd28, im in the category that wants Sam to be treated as an equal, but I don’t mind this new Sam at all. This is a Sam who is also capable of looking after himself, not throw himself down a self destructive path to get Dean back. I don’t consider this as him breaking at all but getting a new understanding on life.
With Dean, most choices he makes are the right ones. He has that strong sense. He says in BAI that “I used to be able to shake this off’ and I’d like to remember one instance at least of a time when he’s made a terrible choice, one that weighs on him horribly.
With Sam, though, he’s screwed up before. He’s made wrong choices, trusted the wrong people, messed up. He’s even different from all the other hunters.
Im not saying this to cause any fan argument.
The point is that this is not because Sam is being thrown under the bus, he’s just different from Dean. He has a darker contrast to Dean’s righteous man. In that sense, the choices he’d make will be different to what Dean makes, and not being there for big brother need not be Sam breaking, it could be Sam making a mature choice to not go down another dark, tragic path. Things have a spectacular way of blowing up around this guy, and it’s probably time he realised that.
The only beef I have is with the Kevin thing. Hopefully, at least that part of the tale will be explained well.
Just remembered that Dean turning torturer in hell did weigh on him.
I’ll just say this, I think they both have a long history of making both good choices and really poor ones. Sam’s demon blood choices got a lot more attention and analysis because it had such grave consequences, and because the five year arc hinged on it.
I think excusing Sam abandoning Kevin and Dean by saying it’s probably for the best – because he usually makes bad choices when left to his own judgment – is being very unfair to the past history of the character.
I like strong, mature and on equal footing Sam, calling him Sammy is just me using that as a term of affection. I’m one of the ones who applauded when Dean recognised that Sam is a grown man now…even though Dean slips backwards when treating Sam as a grown up over and over, but then, that’s a big brother thing I think, also a parental thing, he raised Sam after all. How many of us are still treated like kids now and then by other members of our families. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who sighs in exasperation and say the words, do I need to remind you I’m a grown up?
I’ve always considered Sam to be Dean’s equal and I love it when he’s shown like that. But Dean will never stop looking out for Sam just as Sam will never stop looking out for Dean. They just do it in very different ways, because they are very different people. That’s a large part of what makes me love these brothers so.
You summed up perfectly why I loved this Dean and why I’m worried about him. He was completely badass without all the guilt and the regret hanging off him. It was great to see him grab life by the testes again. I can totally see Dean getting into the purity of Purgatory. I think his first instinct is to see the world in black and white anyway. Sam forced him to see shades of grey. First, on hunts and in monsters and mostly forcefully when he had to accept Sam for who he was. Not perfect by any means, but still the brother he loved.
But all the compromising and the mistakes when delving into those grey areas, weighed on Dean IMO. Amplified by his own dark path he’d taken in hell and sometimes even here on earth. It had to seem at times his life was all grey now and he longed for simplicity and clarity, which purgatory obviously provided. The was no time for guilt and regret.
The problem is now Dean has to return to the grey world and has to deal with the consequences of his actions and has to deal with Sammy. When he said to Benny that he didn’t regret anything they did for a second (after he’d just told a 18 year old boy, who’d watched his girlfriend’s neck get snapped, to “suck it up”) , a warning bell went off. Dean doesn’t regret his actions? Dean is all regret. He regrets things that were in no way his fault. He takes responsibility for everything. Now he’s saying that doing whatever he had to do to get out, and I got the impression he did some pretty dark things, is okay with him. Disconcerting.
Did anyone else get the impression that Dean was already a little angry with Sam BEFORE he knew he didn’t look for him? That “testing” session was pretty aggressive. I think he knew that Sam is his Achilles heal. That Sam would drag him away from his pure vision, because Sam always had. Either but pointing out a different POV or just by being the his pain in the ass little brother who he loves and helped raise. Which is where I hope they are eventually heading with this. Because as kickass as this Dean is, the fact that he was always had a gooey center while kicking ass is what made me love him.
I like your interpretation of Sam too, but he is definitely the harder of the two to grasp right now. If they are actually going with the “I just stopped hunting and didn’t look for you” guy, then there REALLY needs to be A LOT of explanation for his mindset. A LOT. Like massive amounts. Because in the SPN world, there is no greater sin than not at least trying to help your brother. The non-hunting thing-sure. fine. whatever- I’m totally on board. So if they’d had Sam say he really thought Dean was dead. Than I wouldn’t really have a problem with him going off to live his life. In fact, I would support it. It would show that there maybe a way for them to have to life beyond hunting, after the show is over, because Dean with Lisa sent the opposite message.
But they didn’t have Sam say that and they also didn’t have him say he didn’t hunt for Dean. So I’m thinking there is more to the story. Because while he apologized, I felt sincerely, to Kevin he didn’t look that guilty that he hadn’t followed up. And even if he was resolved to quit hunting, you’d think that he’d have more than a little guilt for not following up upon actually hearing the messages. But I got the impression that he felt like what he had been doing what he had to do and therefore wasn’t going to waste time of guilt.
So I’m thinking/hoping that he WAS doing something. Something he’s reluctant to tell Dean about. Now that could just be some sort of mental breakdown. A full-on, last-straw-on-the-camel’s back breakdown, could account for his attitude. If he’s a complete mess, he’s not much good to anyone else, until he gets better. And he’d had a rough year and we don’t know the end results of Cas’ fix. Losing Dean could have been the thing that sent him over the edge.
But I’m HOPING maybe he was working to get Dean back through some shady means and prefers Dean think he got back completely on his own.
Okay this is a dark tangent. But when I saw demon Channing slit her roommates throat, I had a thought. That bowl cell phone, can be used to communicate with other realms. What if Sam was using something similar to communicate with Castiel. Now I can’t see them having Sam goes so dark as to kill people to communicate, but what if its something like that. Something that required pretty dark magic. That might not be something he’d want to mention to Dean.
But it is looking to be a great season. And I love all the character stuff too. That is my complete weakness and what I missed most the last two seasons. And I’m hoping all this antagonistic stuff will eventually lead back to more obviously signs of their “deep, abiding love for each other”.
Kelly, I see your point on how Dean being free of guilt and regret seems a bit ominous, combined with his harsher persona. On the other hand, I think that even so it could be a positive step for Dean in the long run. The thing is, guilt and regret for Dean haven’t just been the consequences of some of the dark things he’s done, they’ve been the causes. Guilt at being alive because of John’s deal and at failing in what he saw as his overriding responsibility for Sam drove his own deal; guilt at the way the supernatural had intruded on and damaged Lisa and Ben’s lives drove the torture and memory wipe of 6.21.
I somehow feel like if Dean for a while were in a space of no guilt, no regrets, even if it’s going to an opposite extreme from guilty Dean rather than finding a balance, it might help him get past the guilt he carries around for things that aren’t his fault. And that, in turn, might help him to confront some of the real choices he has made and the reasons for them.
[quote] The thing is, guilt and regret for Dean haven’t just been the consequences of some of the dark things he’s done, they’ve been the causes. [/quote]
etheldred, great point! And I would like to see him become if not guilt-free, at least guilt lite. Before he never let himself off the hook, it would be nice if he started dealing with some of the stuff from his past and then let it go.
But that didn’t sound like what he was talking about with Benny. He said what they did down there was what they had to do and he didn’t regret it. That sounds more like the ends justify the means. Which is completely different.
And Dean had lost the apathy and that almost suicidal depression, which is great. But despite that he didn’t seem like a healthier, more well-balanced Dean. Case in point, he yelled at Kevin for being upset his girlfriend was murdered, just hours after it happened. He was aggressive, on edge and lacked compassion or empathy. “EMPATHY SAM EMPATHY” Sorry I love that line.
This Dean has the potential to be part of a great storyline, but doesn’t mean I’m actually liking him at the moment. Love the Badass. Who can’t help cheer for that, especially after last season, but I the Dean I truly love and miss is the badass that cares about people. Especially Sam.
I didn’t see a lot of actual concern for Kevin. He was just their responsibility. And I felt like he just needed a goal, that he was having trouble sitting still. But Sam showed a whole lot more concern for Kevin when they were together than Dean did. Kevin became just another means to an end goal. I can understand the change after purgatory, but I don’t think at this point it has brought on a healthier Dean.
[quote]He said what they did down there was what they had to do and he didn’t regret it. That sounds more like the ends justify the means. Which is completely different.
And Dean had lost the apathy and that almost suicidal depression, which is great. But despite that he didn’t seem like a healthier, more well-balanced Dean. Case in point, he yelled at Kevin for being upset his girlfriend was murdered, just hours after it happened. He was aggressive, on edge and lacked compassion or empathy.[/quote]
I agree with you on this, Kelly. I also sensed the interesting dynamic where Kevin became just a means to an end to Dean after he found out what the kid could do. However – I do think it’s possible that Dean could come out of this healthier. I think that’s one of the goals of this season – to get the guys to a place of maturity. But Dean has a long way to go, and certainly likely to get worse before it gets better!
Oh I definitely hope that eventually Purgatory will help Dean towards a better frame of mind. But I just don’t think because he is completely kickass now, that he is in a BETTER place than when he left just a different one. But hopefully it will end up he’s better.
In the mean time, it is great to watch him.
They seem to be modeling Dean’s response closely to post-war PTSD symptoms. Veterans coming back from such a high-adrenalin situation are sometimes on edge, moodier, suffer insomnia, and can not adjust to the more subdued civilian life. This was a while ago, but I remember watching the finale of the TV show China Beach, which was about Vietnam War nurses, and the lead character is at a reunion several years after they left – she’s now an alcoholic – and saying she can’t move on because she never feels as alive as she did during that time in her life. Dean’s comment about Purgatory being “pure” reminded me of that. With John being a war veteran, I wonder if we’re going to start to see more similarities between Dean and John.
My problem with what Sam did has nothing to do with hunting. It’s that he could have given up hunting and still looked for Dean. He still could have sought out books (I’m sure there are still some of Bobby’s and the Campbell’s libraries still around), he could have sought out and connected to Sheriff Mills or Garth and used the connections they have to find more. He could have done something. He could have at least tried, without ever picking up a gun or knife, and he chose not to.
That doesn’t sit well with me at all. I’m holding on (clinging to like a lifepreserver, actually) the hope that there is more to the story, that Sam didn’t just give up on Dean.
I’m not overly fond of Benny. Ruby wasn’t my favorite character, and he just seems like a rehash of that idea.
I love Kevin tho. I’m amazed that he was able to escape from Crowley on his own and remain free for a year with no help whatsoever. For a kid practically paralyzed with fear that’s pretty impressive. I really want to see more of him and how he copes with his new life.
Kelly, I’m so glad you brought this up, because I was going to as well. When Dean asked Sam “did you even look for me?” Sam didn’t actually say anything. Everybody is just assuming from his non-answer that he didn’t look for Dean and he didn’t answer out of guilt. My personal theory, and sweetondean touched on this, is that something happened to Sam that either prevented or stopped him from looking.
I’m thinking that maybe as sweetondean said, that he may have just totally lost his shit at that point and was physically and mentally incapable of doing ANYTHING. I think his wild overreaction to hitting the dog is a hint at this. I mean, I could be completely wrong, but I really think there is way more going on there than we know right now, and Sam it being unfairly condemned before we have all the information.
I also think the whole Benny thing is really going to blow up in Dean’s face when Sam finds out. Previously, to Dean, a monster was a monster, which is why he went and killed Amy behind Sam’s back. When Sam finds out that Benny’s gotten a pass, I don’t think it’s going to go over well.
That being said, I think it was a really good setup for the rest of the season and I can’t wait until next week!
Another thought I had along that same line, is that perhaps it was a word manipulation. What if Sam KNEW where Dean was, so he didn’t have to look. But still worked to get him out. But the question would be, why would he not tell Dean? I don’t know, I truly might be overthinking the whole thing.
But SOMETHING definitely seems off with Sam. Dean is different but easily recognizable. Sam is …..not bad and old Sam is in there but…. I don’t know. That was another weird almost out of context line. When Dean was berating Sam for not looking for him, Sam says,”I’m still the same guy, Dean.” That didn’t quite fit the situation. It’s almost as if another conversation was playing out in Sam’s head.
[quote]But SOMETHING definitely seems off with Sam. Dean is different but easily recognizable. Sam is …..not bad and old Sam is in there but…. I don’t know. That was another weird almost out of context line. When Dean was berating Sam for not looking for him, Sam says,”I’m still the same guy, Dean.” That didn’t quite fit the situation. It’s almost as if another conversation was playing out in Sam’s head.[/quote]
Agreed Kelly, that’s what I felt too. It’s like it’s Sam but not quite. Either Jared’s acting turns bad or Sam hid major secret.
[i]I also think the whole Benny thing is really going to blow up in Dean’s face when Sam finds out. Previously, to Dean, a monster was a monster, which is why he went and killed Amy behind Sam’s back. When Sam finds out that Benny’s gotten a pass, I don’t think it’s going to go over well.[/i]
I don`t think he has the right to, at all.
Dean actually was “all alone” in Purgatory and he had to help himself as noone else did it for him. Was he supposed to just lay down and die? He made an alliance with a vampire out of necessity. And then bonded with him because said vampire was genuinely there for him for the better part of a year.
Someone who did not help Dean or even try in any way whatsoever really has no highground to judge Dean for what he did to survive. Unless the point really is “yeah, actually, I`d prefered it if you died”.
Well Sam wasnt in Purgatory so he couldnt be there genuinely for Dean. But I can see where the rest will go if Sam isnt happy with the Benny situation . Which is why I hate the set up they have created by not having Sam at least try where Dean is concerned .
Unless they are going to surprise us and perception hits us all in the face .
[quote][quote]I also think the whole Benny thing is really going to blow up in Dean’s face when Sam finds out. Previously, to Dean, a monster was a monster, which is why he went and killed Amy behind Sam’s back. When Sam finds out that Benny’s gotten a pass, I don’t think it’s going to go over well.[/quote]
I don`t think he has the right to, at all.[/quote]
I agree Sam has no right to criticize Dean for a friendship with Benny although I do think he has a right to worry about Dean and express his concerns. I do hope that at some point this makes Dean understand Sam’s relationship with Ruby more than he has been able to up until now. No, Sam wasn’t facing the physical trials of Purgatory, but he was in a living hell of knowing his brother had died because of Sam.
I never felt the relationship between Sam and Dean was ever FULLY repaired after Ruby. I hope that Dean’s relationship with Benny will finally help completely mend the relationship with Sam. Dean could never understand how Sam could pick a demon over him. Now, he may finally realize how that kind of dynamic can happen.
I think the verdict is still out on what exactly Sam did after Dean disappeared. He was pretty evasive in this last episode. But even if he didn’t look, and everyone on the show and off is in agreement that that was the wrong thing, killing Amy wasn’t about the high ground.
According to Dean’s logic, the fact that Amy saved Sam when Dean wasn’t in a position to do so was irrelevant. The fact that she had lived many years by her own choice in a peaceful, nonviolent lifestyle was irrelevant. The fact that Dean has probably been responsible for more deaths than Amy has was irrelevant. The only thing that mattered was that as a monster it was in Amy’s nature to kill, and Dean was certain she would kill again. I doubt we’re going to see that killing goes against Benny’s nature.
I don’t think Sam will try to kill Benny because he is Sam, not Dean, and he thinks differently. But if he did, it wouldn’t be worse than Dean killing Amy.
[quote]I doubt we’re going to see that killing goes against Benny’s nature.[/quote]Dean trusted him so killing may go against his nature when Dean trusts him.Like Crowley helped when dean trusted him and when Bobby trusted him, well…
[quote][quote]I doubt we’re going to see that killing goes against Benny’s nature.[/quote]Dean trusted him so killing may go against his nature when Dean trusts him.Like Crowley helped when dean trusted him and when Bobby trusted him, well…[/quote]
I am sorry but I don’t think Dean or Bobby trusted Crowley.
they worked together because they have no other option. I believe they were more in agreement for reaching the same goal last season. Bobby made a deal with Crowley and to get out of the deal he threatened to burn Crowley’s bone.
In the season finale Dean even suspected that Crowley deceived them when he did not show up when they summon him. Dean also said to Dick that never made a deal with Crowley because he always had a way to bone you. At the time Dean, Sam and Bobby just banking on the hatred that Crowley had for Dick. Whether Crowley hate Dick more than he hate the Winchester, that is.
The same goes with Dean’s agreement with Benny. The ‘keep your nose clean’ speech can be interpreted in many things but one thing is clear here. If Benny is out of line, Dean would not hesitate to hunt him down. I am not sure what Dean mean about emergencies here. Could it be he refers to Benny’s vampire’s nature. That if Benny found it difficult to witheld his bloodlust he should call Dean before he kills human?
I was talking about season 5…Ok then let me put it this way when Dean has common goals with Crowley (demon) it worked but when Bobby had his deal with Crowley or Sam with ruby it did not work.This is just the tip of whatever Dean does is right or eventually turns right iceberg.
When concern about the co-dependency being removed to make way for a more ” mature relationship” is expressed well we get all reasons as why it is healthy and give varied reasons for Sam’s actions now ..well guess what? That is how Sam was in earlier seasons and got lot of flak for many of the seasons.If Sam was not co-dependent to the extent of Dean then Sam is the worst brother and now that Sam is appearing to be doing the same thing the reactions are opposite..I really don’t understand this.Is it because Dean has a new secret buddy also this time?
Hmmm… Okay, I think I get what you mean. You’re talking about throughout the history of Supernatural that what Dean did always end up right and what Sam did always end up wrong. That’s the way the show goes.
So, referring to that pattern, now since Dean trusts Benny, it could be that Benny is the most kindhearted monster there is. That could be.
But I also would call out to the show for it’s own consistency if that happens. Throughout the history, if I remember it correctly, all monster turns evil in the end, even Lenore and Amy. Due to some way or another they all will kill. That’s Dean’s mantra ever since Season 1 I think. Lenore threw him a bit out of the loop but then Gamble made Eve and even the kindhearted Lenore did not have a chance.
So, up till now, it cements this basic pattern that all monster will kill because they cannot survive without eating human’s body parts. That’s why they must be banished to Purgatory.
If, it’s only if, Benny does turn to be good. As in not killing any human and always good in the end. I don’t know, I will question the continuity of the show.
As I understand the Benny other shoe will drop. It has to be. I don’t care if it’s Dean this time who is ‘buddy buddy’ with the baddie but Benny has to be bad. Dean is allowed to be wrong every once in a while. I don’t mind. If it preserve the theme of the show. I mean us (humans) against monster.
And Dean better be suspicious and wary about Benny. His last year speech about ‘It’s in a monster’s nature to kill’ better ring true this time.
[quote]Throughout the history, if I remember it correctly, all monster turns evil in the end, even Lenore and[/quote]Actually no,Lenore was good till the end then she went to a state where she was barely hanging by thread, not bad and even after that she had enough sense of self that she asked to be put out of misery.But the general “perception” (how i hate the word) is she became bad and had to be put down and Dean is right.Is Dean not wrong if the monster who should have been just feral with the need of blood was still in control..no “perception” is Dean is right.
[quote]Amy[/quote]I found killing Amy a decision not good or Bad ..just a decision. but if they had let her live that too would have been ok. What i found bad and heartless was killing her in front of her child.[quote]So, up till now, it cements this basic pattern that all monster will kill because they cannot survive without eating human’s body parts. That’s why they must be banished to Purgatory.[/quote]If so then Dean is still wrong as he left Amy’s son to live and kill.
[quote]when Dean has common goals with Crowley (demon) it worked but when Bobby had his deal with Crowley or Sam with ruby it did not work.This is just the tip of whatever Dean does is right or eventually turns right iceberg.[/quote]
This is fact up till now, right? You are stating fact, right? So, yes I agree with this because up till now this is what happens on tv. i will reserve my judgment wether I like with this pattern or not (I am not Dean haters) because i will not talk about my feeling about it now. I am just trying to look at this using detachment in judgment.
So, now Dean trusts Benny. If we follow the fact above, then the show will fall in line and made Benny to be a good monster and he will live throughout the end of the season. Nothing bad will happen to Benny that will make him kill human. because as you say,.. [i]it’s just the tip of whatever Dean does is right or eventually turns right iceberg.[/i]
But, in the other hand. There’s this other pattern that happen in the show. Monster always kills human in the end. This is facts too. We cant deny it. I’ve always seen a monster will eventually kills. Even Lenore kills in the end. Okay, it was against her will but Gamble could have just write her to NOT KILL any human until the end. It’s been five years but Gamble dug her from the pile of monster and write a plot about her end.
It’s the plot that the writers always wrote. In the end monster kills. Something always happen with them. Either it was Eve, or something else. Remember the Rugaru? The old hunter let him go when he was a child hoping that he would not kill but in the end, the story played out. No matter how we argued that he killed because he was forced, because he saw his wife was threatened, still in the end, the writer choose a plot that makes the rugaru killed. It could have been written differently, I know. It’s easy. Writer is God in a story universe after all.
Amy’s son is in a position where the rugaru monster was still a kid. he does not kill yet but seeing the pattern of the show I am afraid that the writers will find a way to screw him in the end. Of course, we don’t know it yet because it has not happen. I am just learning from the previous fact presented in the show and make a deduction from there.
The Amy son case is not yet played here because the script is not yet written. I cannot make a judgement on the case that still has not happen. So, either Dean is wrong or right with letting him go is yet to be seen.
If the show follows the previously drawn pattern the kid will kill. But I don’t know how they will make it since they probably need to wait till the kid is at least late teen and Dean and Sam will be too old to hunt and Supernatural may be already end. 😛 I dunno. Buuuuuttt if that does happen then Dean is wrong. Which I don’t mind a bit.
Other choice to write the plot is to make Amy kid not kill no matter what happen. No Eve, no bad things, no Apocalypse nothing. He surprisngly turns into a good monster and not kill human. Which of course i don’t know when this plot will play out because the kid is still a kid now.
[quote]Gamble could have just write her to NOT KILL any human until the end.[/quote]Actually she could not have as it would debunk the monsters in eve’s thrall bit.My thoughts were Gamble resurrected her because she woukd be the only monster they could show helping Sam and Dean at that point convincingly even while Eve was affecting her.[quote]Other choice to write the plot is to make Amy kid not kill no matter what happen. No Eve, no bad things, no Apocalypse nothing. He surprisngly turns into a good monster and not kill human. Which of course i don’t know when this plot will play out because the kid is still a kid now.[/quote]and then the kid’s son/daughter falls sick and he starts killing people..well isn’t supernatural all about family.
[quote]Actually she could not have as it would debunk the monsters in eve’s thrall bit.My thoughts were Gamble resurrected her because she woukd be the only monster they could show helping Sam and Dean at that point convincingly even while Eve was affecting her.[/quote]
Yes, that’s the plot. But the result is, the pattern of the show remains the same. Monsters kill in the end.
And Gamble COULD have decided on that plot when she wrote Eve. Lenore’s faith is sealed when Gamble wrote Eve. She could have wrote Eve to be different. The show runners and the writers converse before the shooting start right? The decision to create Eve was taken before the shooting start, thus the decision to write Lenore’s faith.
No matter what the reason, either convincingly or not, either make believe or not, The show has succeeded in preserving the pattern. It’s fact, it’s cannon, it’s been played on tv whether we like it or not.
I am just picking up the pattern. Like a system picking up pattern in an antivirus software. Because in this discussion i will reserve my judgment. I will be blind and not care what the reason they use to do it. The Eve plot succeed to serve a preservation of a pattern either it was intentionally or accidentally.
The song remains the same. The pattern up till now remains the same.
[i]because she woukd be the only monster they could show helping Sam and Dean at that point convincingly even while Eve was affecting her.[/i]
Every week Sam and Dean encounter new monsters. Season 6 is a testament to that. Who ever said that Lenore is the only one? You forget that there’s still Lucky the pervy dog. The skinwalker. We don’t know what becomes of him. He could be killed by other hunters or just turn another human beings due to Eve’s whispering. Why not Castiel grab Lucky?
There are still lots of monsters in the world but Lenore already said “EVERYONE GIVES IN”
Again this dialog serve to support the preservation of the pattern. In the end everyone (monsters) give in. They kill.
Pattern preserved.
[i]because she woukd be the only monster they could show helping Sam and Dean at that point convincingly even while Eve was affecting her.[/i]
So, it’s clear that they use Lenore as a tool to move the Eve plot. Again it only serves to strengthen the pattern that even she could not hold back against her nature. When mother called to her, called to her basic instinct, she gave in. She fed, she killed
Pattern preserved.
[quote]Other choice to write the plot is to make Amy kid not kill no matter what happen. No Eve, no bad things, no Apocalypse nothing. He surprisngly turns into a good monster and not kill human. Which of course i don’t know when this plot will play out because the kid is still a kid now.[/quote]and then the kid’s son/daughter falls sick and he starts killing people..well isn’t supernatural all about family.[/quote]
Yep, and I see that you start to see the pattern here. Even if it’s about family, even if it’s about life, even if it’s about a cloud in the sky… pattern preserved.
[i]and then the kid’s son/daughter falls sick and he starts killing people..[/i]
I don’t know that, yet. I cannot recognize a pattern that has yet not been played. 😀
Thank you 😀 Good chat! (Oh my God I sound like Dick 😛 😮 )
[quote]When mother called to her,[/quote]If the way she was whn Castiel got her then it was not simply Eve telling her to kill and she starts killing.[quote]Lucky the pervy dog[/quote]Lucky and lenore were worlds apart .Lenore was good because she wanted to be good Lucky not so much.
[quote]I don’t know that, yet. I cannot recognize a pattern that has yet not been played. :-D[/quote]The pattern i was referring to was people and in this case even kitsune get sick..so it is not far fetched that Amy’s grandkid be sick.
[quote]Hmmm… Okay, I think I get what you mean. You’re talking about throughout the history of Supernatural that what Dean did always end up right and what Sam did always end up wrong. That’s the way the show goes.
So, referring to that pattern, now since Dean trusts Benny, it could be that Benny is the most kindhearted monster there is. That could be.
But I also would call out to the show for it’s own consistency if that happens. Throughout the history, if I remember it correctly, all monster turns evil in the end, even Lenore and Amy. Due to some way or another they all will kill. That’s Dean’s mantra ever since Season 1 I think. Lenore threw him a bit out of the loop but then Gamble made Eve and even the kindhearted Lenore did not have a chance.
So, up till now, it cements this basic pattern that all monster will kill because they cannot survive without eating human’s body parts. That’s why they must be banished to Purgatory.
If, it’s only if, Benny does turn to be good. As in not killing any human and always good in the end. I don’t know, I will question the continuity of the show.
As I understand the Benny other shoe will drop. It has to be. I don’t care if it’s Dean this time who is ‘buddy buddy’ with the baddie but Benny has to be bad. Dean is allowed to be wrong every once in a while. I don’t mind. If it preserve the theme of the show. I mean us (humans) against monster.
And Dean better be suspicious and wary about Benny. His last year speech about ‘It’s in a monster’s nature to kill’ better ring true this time.[/quote]
The big problem with this is that if you accept that Dean was right, and that all monsters will eventually follow their nature and kill – and that this is something they can’t rise above – then that means that it’s inevitable that Sam will go “darkside” and be evil at the end of the series. Sam is physically a monster, and since John warned Dean that if he can’t save Sam, he will have to kill him, it has been implied that going darkside was in his nature.
Other smaller problems include the mixed messages around Amy. Killing her in front of her son and leaving her son an orphan couldn’t have been good. Also, as anonymousN pointed out, Leonore never really went bad. She was killing at the end but not by choice – only under duress. She chose to end her own life rather than take more innocent lives.
But I don’t think Benny will turn out to be a good monster. There’s no tension in that, and therefore no story for Dean.
[quote]
The big problem with this is that if you accept that Dean was right, and that all monsters will eventually follow their nature and kill – and that this is something they can’t rise above – then that means that it’s inevitable that Sam will go “darkside” and be evil at the end of the series. Sam is physically a monster, and since John warned Dean that if he can’t save Sam, he will have to kill him, it has been implied that going darkside was in his nature.
Other smaller problems include the mixed messages around Amy. Killing her in front of her son and leaving her son an orphan couldn’t have been good. Also, as anonymousN pointed out, Leonore never really went bad. She was killing at the end but not by choice – only under duress. She chose to end her own life rather than take more innocent lives.[/quote]
That was one of my biggest problems with last years monster storyline. It did seem to be saying that all monsters would eventually give into their nature. Culminating with the season finale where Bobby basically became monster and asked to be destroyed.
This totally takes away the idea of free will and controlling your own actions and therefore destiny. And you’re right the repercussions for Sam from that line of thought are not good. That’s one of the many reasons I why I don’t like the all monsters are bad idea.
But if they actually address that this season, make last seasons messes have meaning, I would be one happy fan.
[quote]The big problem with this is that if you accept that Dean was right, and that all monsters will eventually follow their nature and kill – and that this is something they can’t rise above -[/quote]
This is still fact, no matter if i like it or not. Again I will only state fact and reverse my judgement and my feeling. The show has proven that Dean’s choice is right in the end. It’s fact. We have to accept it whether we like it or not it’s canon. Okay, that’s settled, whether I like it or not, whether i accept it or refuse it, the glaring fact remains. The show has written and shown that Dean’s choice will come up right.
Now, unto Sam’s case.
[quote]then that means that it’s inevitable that Sam will go “darkside” and be evil at the end of the series. Sam is physically a monster, and since John warned Dean that if he can’t save Sam, he will have to kill him, it has been implied that going darkside was in his nature.[/quote]
The fact is Sam is not a monster. Why? he is human being. He has a soul, he went to heaven. Sam does not grow claws or sharp teeth or eat human parts. Okay, the blood addiction maybe the sign that he has darkside. But the differences between human and monster is clear for me. And Sam is no monster. I don’t understand why everybody think Sam is a monster. I love Sam. I will never think Sam as a monster.
Okay, his blood is tainted but he is still very well human.
Another fact. Dean turned a vampire a while back. He was a monster. But he has not kill any human so he is able to drink a cure. Samuel said if Dean did not drink human’s blood he cannot be declared a monster, yet, so he can be cured. Hurray, Dean is cured. Not a monster anymore. But he nearly was.
Now, Sam. Sam drank demon’s blood. (okay he may or may not kill a human when he did that but the knife also kill the human host when Dean use it.) Sam drank demon’s blood not human’s blood. Even if I consider it vile and nasty and every which way sinful and I wish Kripke did not choose this path for Sam. Sam was better than that, he should be able to spot the right from wrong. Sam was smarter than that. Buuuuutttt I am not gonna talk about my personal opinion on it here. I am only going to argue about whether Sam is human or monster.
Still, Sam is a human. Addicted, yes. It was a bad choice, yes. But Sam still has his soul. His blood is tainted but the demon blood did not taint Sam’s soul. When a human turned demon their soul becomes black, right? Sam’s soul is still purely white. Sam has psychic ability. So does Missouri, Pamela, Andy, and other psychic kids. They are all humans. Sam having psychic ability does not make him a monster. Just make him special. Some human are blessed with abilities but that does not make them monster. I don’t play with words here and i don’t consider cuss words to be fact. Dean accused Sam ‘you’re a monster’ other characters in the show cursed Sam the same but cursed words is not fact. The fact remains that Sam is not a monster. He is just a man that is pulled towards darkness. Kinda like Dean when he was turned but not drink human’s blood.
Dean is not a monster (yet) because he did not drink human’s blood. So, he can be cured. But it’s in vamp!Dean’s nature to need blood to live. Without it he will die. We dis not get to see how long Dean give up his resolve because the plot quickly shoved the cure into Dean’s throat.
Sam did not need demon blood to live. The show treated it like an addiction not unlike drugs. From Jared’s understanding while he played addicted Sam. He thought of it like drug addiction. We must trust Jared right? because he is the first one who get to interpret the plot to act it out. Just like an alcoholic when the alcohol is in their system they are susceptible to do bad things because their ability to think clearly is screwed due to the poison in their body. The show and Jared tried to translate this on screen. Drinking demon’s blood does not make Sam a monster. Because we have prove that Sam’s soul is very much human’s soul.
Death said : ‘what do you think a soul is? a soul can be bludgeoned, tortured but never broken.’
Sam’s soul is still intact, flayed to the raw nerve but very much human’s soul.
Sam did not kill human. (even if the host died when Sam drain their blood, what’s the different of it with the knife?) Sam drank demon’s blood not human’s blood. It’s the power within the sulfur element in the blood that drew Sam, NOT the blood it self because Ruby’s host is dead. Normally the bone marrow of a dead girl cannot produce blood and demon Ruby just animated the body. She may forced the bone marrow to produce more blood but it’s all Ruby’s demonic essence that drove the van, so to speak. Ruby was 100 percent demon, no human’s soul left in the body. The factory is the same but the product is different. Sam addicted to Ruby’s blood for her demon blood not the human’s host blood.
That’s why I never think Sam is a monster because he is not.
[quote]Also, as anonymousN pointed out, Leonore never really went bad. She was killing at the end but not by choice – only under duress. She chose to end her own life rather than take more innocent lives.[/quote]
Again Gamble choose to write a plot about her end in THAT way. She could have choose different fate for Lenore but no, in the end Lenore has to succumb to the inevitable. We can’t argue with that because it happened, it’s fact, it’s canon. It was intentional and i believe had been thought out WHEN they decide to bring in Eve. IF Gamble choose to let Lenore be a good vampire then she would not wrote Eve. Or she could wrote Eve to not be able to influence Lenore. That Lenore, the good and kindhearted vampire that she was somehow able to hold on. Not to kill human and thus Cas did not have to kill her.
[i]She was killing at the end but not by choice – only under duress.[/i]
Why? because the plot has stripped her of that choice. The show has shown us that in the very end monster like Lenore does not have a choice. The show did this to Lenore. The show maintain continuity with the sentiment that ‘It’s in a monster’s nature to kill’ Dean had learned that even Lenore couldn’t escape her nature. Because plot happen to her.
Sam said : ‘but not you’.
Lenore said : ‘i fed i couldn’t help it. I’m exactly like them. Everyone gives in.’
There, right there is the script from the writers to put into Lenore’s mouth. The message? Monster kills in the end. Again, I reverse judgement here but it’s fact, it’s canon. I can disagree, I can dislike it, but the fact remain the same. The show maintain a pattern.
I am only seeing pattern here. Not voicing my opinion on it.
[quote]But I don’t think Benny will turn out to be a good monster. There’s no tension in that, and therefore no story for Dean.[/quote]
Then, you follow the Show’s pattern. A monster like Benny will kill. A monster like Benny will NOT turn out to be good monster. Regardless if there will be or will not be a story for Dean. The pattern continues.
Because the writers and the showrunner could pick any story for Dean and not involving making friends with monster in any shape of form but they in fact choose this.
Now, the end is not here, yet. We don’t know what fair Benny.
If Benny is Good = Pattern disturbed = Dean is yet again proved right (pattern no.2 preserved)
If Benny is bad, bad, bad = pattern continues = Dean for once is proved to be in the wrong (pattern no. 2 dissolved)
This two pattern cancel each other out. We can just wait what the outcome will be.
Now, unto my personal opinion. I like it better if the monster pattern continue. I don’t mind if Dean is proven wrong to let go of Benny. I like to see monster is killed. That’s why I don’t have problem to Amy is killed. Why? I just do. It’s personal and in line with my morality perspective. Also, Dean looks so hot when he kills monster. 😛 But that’s just the shallow part of me. 😀
Well in this case I hope the monster pattern holds, but I’m 99% sure that the Dean is always right in the end, Sam is always wrong and bad pattern will hold.
The one monster you are leaving out is my hated Lucky. Dean did nothing to even try and find Lucky, even though Lucky didn’t leave town and hide and in fact tried to get back together with woman who owned him. As far as we know, Lucky never hurt anyone again, a tribute to Dean’s ability to do no wrong. Then of course there is Meg. When Dean decides that Meg is trustworthy enough to watch over Cas, she becomes trustworthy enough to watch over Cas AND to drive the Impala in the assault on Dick’s headquarters. She then becomes a martyr by becoming Crowley’s prisoner. Basically if Dean says you are a good monster, even if you have killed Jo and Ellen, then you are a good monster. If Sam give you a chance, you are a killing machine waiting to happen. I HATE this, but it is what the show repeatedly says.
I don’t really understand why they bring back Meg again. They could have brought in any other demon.
It is in fact Soulless Sam who stroke a deal with Meg. Not Dean. And Meg fled before the guys can do anything. They were tied that time. Sam again who was facing off with Meg and her demons and Sam stabbed the demon that threatened Dean. (Possessive much, Sam? :P) Sam practically drove the bus here, Dean did not do anything. Sam also the one who escaped the imprisonment.
I get this Sam because he was soulless. He will do everything to get the job done. to get what he wanted. Dean was not driving the bus in this episode. Dean did not make agreement with Meg. It was soulless Sam.
But they use Meg as a tool. To give Castiel a romance? (pointless) Lot’s of glaring plot holes in season 6.
Although, I love soulless Sam. He is possessive. 😀
Combine soulless Sam and Feral Dean and I am in a good place. But let’s stop being shallow. 😛
Season 7 they bring Meg again with a more pointless purpose. The episode could work without bringing in Meg. Mutually assured destruction? Then she was integrated into the plot via Castiel. Again, no purpose other than giving romance for Cas.
[quote] The show has proven that Dean’s choice is right in the end. It’s fact. We have to accept it whether we like it or not it’s canon. Okay, that’s settled, whether I like it or not, whether i accept it or refuse it, the glaring fact remains. The show has written and shown that Dean’s choice will come up right. [/quote]
I don’t think you can say it is canon that Dean is always right. Just because that has been the tendency that doesn’t mean it is a rule. And there have been several times in the past where his has been flat out wrong. I
then that means that it’s inevitable that Sam will go “darkside” and be evil at the end of the series. Sam is physically a monster, and since John warned Dean that if he can’t save Sam, he will have to kill him, it has been implied that going darkside was in his nature.[/quote]
[quote]The fact is Sam is not a monster. Why? he is human being. He has a soul, he went to heaven. Sam does not grow claws or sharp teeth or eat human parts. [quote]
Monster has souls too. As do demons. That is what goes to hell and purgatory. The only thing that we know of that doesn’t have a soul is angels.
I don’t think Sam is bad or a monster, but the slippery slope of that line of thought is that Sam, who actually did kill that nurse to drink the demon’s blood, could be labeled one. He had demon blood in him. He had non-human powers. His well-intentioned actions caused Lucifer to be set free,creating far more damage than any of the monsters.
The point is if all creatures are controlled by their nature with no free will than. Then Sam, who was meant to be evil-has evil within him, should be killed.
I think with Benny the show is going to go back to the grey area. Where he is a creature that does both good and bad.
When the Lenore said everyone gives in, she was talking about with Mother walking the Earth. But she was fine before and likely would have been fine after.
It does have to be a either or thing that Dean could be wrong about Benny, but not all monsters are evil.
A vague pattern does not make something canon.
I agree. I don’t think there’s any one answer to monsters, good, and evil on Spn. There are werewolves, who have no choice about killing when in wolf form but have human moral natures the rest of the time. There are vampires, who have the choice not to kill (I don’t think the Mother and Lenore counterbalances that — her influence seems more like that of Famine on humans or angels: the fact that people were overwhelmed by their urges with Famine or the Siren doesn’t mean that humans will always succumb to the worst of their natures. There are monsters like Amy and the Phoenix, who are able to choose not to kill and who, when they do kill, do so not because they are surrendering to monster nature but because of motives that could just as easily apply to a human (revenge in the Phoenix’s case; saving her child’s life at the cost of others for Amy). There was the rugaru, who had a choice up till his first kill (and was pushed into that by the action of hunters) but not after. There are wendigos, who become monsters by making the choice to kill and eat human flesh as humans. There are ghosts; despite Bobby, some ghosts, like the woman in Roadkill or a couple of the ghosts Bobby met in the ghost house or Mary in Home, have not gone evil.
I think free will on Spn is itself a grey zone.
There is, too, one notable instance in which Sam extends trust to a being who could be seen as monstrous, when Dean disagrees with Sam, and Sam is crucially right: Sam was the one who believed that Cas was still in there in 7.1, and gave him a second chance. If he had gone with Dean’s belief that their friend was gone forever, the world would have ended. Sam isn’t always wrong in who he choses to believe in!
All these were great points, etheldred. I especially like that Amy’s and Phoenix’s (I’d forgotten about him) motives for killing were very human ones.
Double post, sorry
Nothing has been said for “how old” Benny may be? Is he a old, old vampire? Like say, 150 years old (just a number pulled out of the air)?
Plus, Sam does need to grow up…I mean, really people, he’s almost 30 years old. time to get out on his own.
[quote]Nothing has been said for “how old” Benny may be? Is he a old, old vampire? Like say, 150 years old (just a number pulled out of the air)?
Plus, Sam does need to grow up…I mean, really people, he’s almost 30 years old. time to get out on his own.[/quote]
With all due respect it has zero anything to do with Sam ‘growing up’ and time to get out on his own. It doesn,t have any bearing on Sam not looking for Dean, chucking his phones way and not helping Kevin.
Talking for myself I have no problem with Sam not wanting to hunt or meeting a very crabby vet but the rest leaves concern’s.
Well, you do have a point about Sam ditching his phones….he really should have kept them and checked on them….but he must have kept at least one for Dean to get in touch with him.
This. This, this, THIS.
Spot-on analysis, here. You captured all the important details. Thank you for sharing.
I loved your review. Spot on! I enjoyed the episode and agree with much of what’s been said about both characters. I agree with your review, even Sam being totally overwraught and driving as far and as fast as he can. I also agree that the freak-out with the dog was more about the situation he found himself in.
I’m willing to give on that, but I don’t get the phone thing either. If Sam was unsure what happened to Dean or even Kevin, I think he would have kept his phone (at least his main one) and I think it would have been impossible for him to give it up- like a last tie to anyone he knew. There are still a few people he knew, non-hunters like Jodi, for instance. I don’t think that really makes sense.
As far as Amelia goes, I’m interested in what happened and how he ended up with her. I’m not too impressed yet, but I don’t think she”ll be sticking around long, so I’m not worried about whether or not I like her. I agree with Grace232
“Second, I am not sure she gave him the dog right there. My impression was she got him to agree to take the dog, but he was not ready to be released. In the meantime, Sam would ave stuck around visiting the dog, rather than continuing to wander, and perhaps that is how Amelia and Sam got to know each other better – and how she maybe started helping him too. “
This is the way I saw it too. I don’t think the dog was the trophy. I think she was being rather snide and cruel by saying that “great, you dropped off the dog and you’re hitting the road and dumping him here. Here’s your hero trophy and don’t let the door hit you!” I also think we’ll see that he gets fond of both dog and vet and needs a place to heal just like the dog. Maybe the dog is a metaphor for Sam. “He’s not anyone’s” right??? Neither is Sam. Maybe the whole dog/Amelia story is just about how he gets past losing everyone and back on an even keel. That’s my take. Could’ve done that and kept his phone, though. Geez, just toss it in the glove compartment like they did with their dad’s for a while. Check for messages every once in a while.
As for Dean. I have the same concern about him regaining his humanity. As we all recall, they keep eachother human and I think this will be a theme this season. I have absolutely no complaints about PTSD Dean. Well- portrayed, edgy, sweaty, wonderful Dean! Loved Benny too. I am wondering if he’s a “good vampire” and who was in the coffin. I don’t think Dean will stand by and let him kill people, so will be fun to see it play out.
Cautiously optimistic so far. Need to see more brother-bonding and I’ll be completely on-board!
Didn’t Sam keep at least one phone though? I mean what phone was Dean getting all those messages from Kevin on? It was in a box, so I don’t think it was Dean’s.
That is one of the contradictions and questions about Sam’s year. He said he got rid of his phones, or most of his phones, I have to rewatch, but then the one phone that Kevin called is still around?
I’m really hoping Sam’s behavior gets cleared up, hopefully some time before episode 23. I hope there is something to clear up other than Sam just ditched everything and went off to live a normal life.
[quote]I’m really hoping Sam’s behavior gets cleared up, hopefully some time before episode 23. [/quote] LOL DITTO!!!
Been burned so badly with last season gap and sudden instant fix, eh? I share your worries.
[quote]Been burned so badly with last season gap and sudden instant fix, eh? I share your worries.[/quote]Add season 4 gap also
I’d add season five to that as well. I never felt Sam’s journey to redemption got the focus it needed. Too many people felt he never apologized enough to Dean. Then he tells Dean what Dean does to set him off, which is the way thing work in a real relationship, but was written by writers who just made him seem like he was blaming Dean. Then there were long stretches where Dean angsted about being Michael’s vessel and Sam go zero focus on being Lucifer’s. Then Sam believes in Dean, we suddenly for no real reason get Brady, just so Sam can actually get his revenge for Jess then Sam dives into the Cage. It was a very unsatisfying redemption journey for me.
E,
I think what Sam means about ditching is not throwing away but keeping them in a box and put them in a cupboard in the cabin or better yet in the impala’s trunk.
More suspicions about whether he truly out of the hunting world or maybe just a lurker.
The first thing that Dean did was checking messages which was good continuity as Dean also kept John’s phone on charge until Adam called.
This is the best explanation of the episode that I have seen. Love your take on both Sam and Dean, and I didn’t even have a problem with where Sam was beginning from this season.
I’m not askind as you are, so I formed an opinion of Amelia. I thought she was pushy and bitchy. Of course, it was a very short scene that she had, and she may get better, but we’ve heard about her since Comic Con so, of course, we were all curious. I just find that to introduce her this way and then try to rehabilitate her, for me anyway, probably won’t work. First impressions and all of that.
And I’m right there with you on bloody, dirty, feral, HOT hunter Dean. I hope he’s around all season. It’s just been that long of a drought.
Hi, Ginger!
I agree about Amelia but above all that I also think that her acting is just bad.
I mean I know I put JA and JP’s acting prowess above all. It’s just so difficult to see the guys outstanding acting and then see … the actress who played Amelia attempt to act.
[quote]And I’m right there with you on bloody, dirty, feral, HOT hunter Dean. I hope he’s around all season. It’s just been that long of a drought.[/quote] count me in this group . 😀
Just watched the episode (yeah I know but I don’t have TV and even if I did I have a Wednesday night class this quarter), just some thoughts I had.
Dean and Benny – Benny made it clear that he did not trust anyone and Dean looked/acted like he was in serious pain while Benny’s soul was in his arm. So I am assuming that they were well in the plan of “transplanting” Benny’s soul before Benny gave him final directions on how to get out of Purgatory so Dean could not back out at the last minute.
I also felt that during their initial conversation that Dean has made it clear to him that if he does anything underhanded Dean would hunt him down and kill him. I think that was the “keep your nose clean” comment was made. I also felt that the hug they shared was the kind between frenemies. We may be friends now but if we see each other again we will be fighting for the death. And yes I realize that Dean told him to call him if he had an emergency on the phone at the end but he definitely was not pushing for any friendship.
As someone mentioned in the comments, I don’t think Sam went to the cabin because Dean called him. He even admitted that he didn’t get any of the calls, which means that Sam just decided to go. Maybe like someone said, it was his get away when he felt like he needed some alone time from Amelia because she definitely did not act like she was surprised he was leaving. And obviously the way the dog was left behind, no matter that she did a guilt trip on him, the dog belongs to her. And if it doesn’t, that means he expected to come back. I personally want to know what he named the dog – have since they spoiled that it was relevant in this season.
And ditching the phones means to me he got rid of them, obviously that isn’t true because Dean is listening to them at the cabin. So Sam’s definition of “ditching” means putting them in the trunk out of sight with the weapons used for hunting. His actions don’t equal with his words. If he was truly out of hunting/positive Dean was not coming back, he would have gotten rid of the weapons (except for the demon knife and a shotgun probably) and the phones. But he didn’t, he kept them and made regular visits back to the cabin. So there is more going on.
Theory here – Sam told Dean that he kept his eye on the paper and found stories about things they used to hunt. He went on to say that they weren’t the only ones/hunters out there so probably someone else handled them. I personally don’t see Sam completely ignoring something really bad so it would not surprise me if he set up a network of hunters where he could call one up and set them on the trail – sort of like Ellen/Bobby did. And if he was doing it anonymously so no one connected it with Sam Winchester the hunter and question why he was not doing it himself, it would explain him using a different phone than the one Kevin was calling so he did not get the messages. And anonymous would make sense to him, because he knows enough about fighting that enemies strike at the brains of an operation first.
I am extremely glad the smart Sammy is back. Analyzing the calls for background noises. Tracking security tapes to find the computer that Kevin used when he was on campus and back tracking IP addresses. It was good to see him using that noggin of his again. He was the one that found out where they needed to go to find Kevin, not Dean so it once again doesn’t gel with me that he is “out of the game”.
Overall, looking forward to the rest of this adventure and can’t wait to see where we are going. 😀
[quote]I also felt that during their initial conversation that Dean has made it clear to him that if he does anything underhanded Dean would hunt him down and kill him. I think that was the “keep your nose clean” comment was made. I also felt that the hug they shared was the kind between frenemies. We may be friends now but if we see each other again we will be fighting for the death. And yes I realize that Dean told him to call him if he had an emergency on the phone at the end but he definitely was not pushing for any friendship.[/quote]
The keep your nose clean talk. Yeah, i agree but it also suspicious, don’t you think? because Benny also said to Dean the same thing. “You keep your nose clean too, brother.” As I said in a comment below this, it’s suspicious. What did Dean do to make a monster, a vampire warn him that?
[quote]As someone mentioned in the comments, I don’t think Sam went to the cabin because Dean called him. He even admitted that he didn’t get any of the calls, which means that Sam just decided to go. Maybe like someone said, it was his get away when he felt like he needed some alone time from Amelia because she definitely did not act like she was surprised he was leaving. And obviously the way the dog was left behind, no matter that she did a guilt trip on him, the dog belongs to her. And if it doesn’t, that means he expected to come back. I personally want to know what he named the dog – have since they spoiled that it was relevant in this season.
And ditching the phones means to me he got rid of them, obviously that isn’t true because Dean is listening to them at the cabin. So Sam’s definition of “ditching” means putting them in the trunk out of sight with the weapons used for hunting. His actions don’t equal with his words. If he was truly out of hunting/positive Dean was not coming back, he would have gotten rid of the weapons (except for the demon knife and a shotgun probably) and the phones. But he didn’t, he kept them and made regular visits back to the cabin. So there is more going on.
Theory here – Sam told Dean that he kept his eye on the paper and found stories about things they used to hunt. He went on to say that they weren’t the only ones/hunters out there so probably someone else handled them. I personally don’t see Sam completely ignoring something really bad so it would not surprise me if he set up a network of hunters where he could call one up and set them on the trail – sort of like Ellen/Bobby did. And if he was doing it anonymously so no one connected it with Sam Winchester the hunter and question why he was not doing it himself, it would explain him using a different phone than the one Kevin was calling so he did not get the messages. And anonymous would make sense to him, because he knows enough about fighting that enemies strike at the brains of an operation first.
He was the one that found out where they needed to go to find Kevin, not Dean so it once again doesn’t gel with me that he is “out of the game”. [/quote]
This is also my theory and partly my wishful thinking. LOL
Sam’s reaction on Kevin’s message feels unnatural. Like he knows something we don’t know. He could be arm-wrestled for doing it because he knows demons are spying him? I would never buy the uncaring Sam. So, I agree with your theory here.
[quote]As someone mentioned in the comments, I don’t think Sam went to the cabin because Dean called him. He even admitted that he didn’t get any of the calls, which means that Sam just decided to go. Maybe like someone said, it was his get away when he felt like he needed some alone time from Amelia because she definitely did not act like she was surprised he was leaving. And obviously the way the dog was left behind, no matter that she did a guilt trip on him, the dog belongs to her. And if it doesn’t, that means he expected to come back. I personally want to know what he named the dog – have since they spoiled that it was relevant in this season.
And ditching the phones means to me he got rid of them, obviously that isn’t true because Dean is listening to them at the cabin. So Sam’s definition of “ditching” means putting them in the trunk out of sight with the weapons used for hunting. His actions don’t equal with his words. If he was truly out of hunting/positive Dean was not coming back, he would have gotten rid of the weapons (except for the demon knife and a shotgun probably) and the phones. But he didn’t, he kept them and made regular visits back to the cabin. So there is more going on. [/quote]
Well said.
The dog’s name is Riot. I guess Sam has his hands full after all. 😉
loved your review! I just loved that idea about fixing impala is the only thing they can do when they can’t fix anything! It is so true and great to me. I’m with this Sam. I think he decided to make a different move this time and see how that goes in stead of searching for something that he doesn’t know. But I’m kinda curious , the way he left Amelia in the house , when he said he KNEW its dean and not answering completely thy he didn’t search for dean makes me think that maybe he did tried but he found out that trying to bring Dean back would make a major chaos ! And the way that he insisted on Cas’ survival I’m think maybe he know better more than what he shows ! I’m just thinking this was a amazing season opener and left us with so many mysteries and unanswered questions and I’m totaly looking forward to know what happened in Purgotary ! Again, Wonderful review Amy! You said what ever I had in mind !
Awesome review Amy! And here’s to another great season of Supernatural and reviews!
I love how you see Dean sitting on the floor talking about Purgatory. Sitting on a bed is very foreign to him, as to the vending machine. Just like The Hurt Locker. I love that!
I too want Dean humanity to remain intact — he still loves his burger and BABY, that’s gotta be a good sign right?
I too want to give Sam a break. I get why he did what he did and it will be interesting to see how the relationship — Dean/ Sam, Sam/ Dean/ Benny and Dean/ Cas/ Sam/ Benny develop in this season.
I love the fact that Jeremy Caver is back!!! Love it!
A brilliant 150th episode!!!
Cheers
Tiny
xoxo
Just noticed on the third re watch that Benny was borrowing Dean’s words right off his lips when he says “purgatory was pure”, which is exactly what Dean had earlier told Sam. Maybe he’s the guy outside Amelia’s place n he’s following the Winchesters or something.
Nice thought Darya!! I am interested about that too. It will be interesting if it was Benny.
It can also be a demon. Because I remember Marc S said that Crowley is what happen when you don’t pay attention. I think it’s safe to put the blame on him so to speak LOL
He also get Channing possessed in order to intercept Kevin. I am not surprised that he also got demons to scout Amelia’s house to spy on Sam. He was sure that Kevin would contact Sam. He wouldn’t want Sam to jeopardize his effort in retrieving Kevin, right? He had to make sure that Sam was out of the hunting life permanently.
Awesome! I love your analysis of both brothers & their mindsets at this point. Oh, the secrets again, boys! This season opener has really given us a lot to ponder & I can’t wait to discover it all.
Hi, sweetondean.
I like it that you always have positive review and I share your giddiness upon seeing Dean. I understand now what Dean and Benny meant when they talked about purgatory’s pureness. It was eat or be eaten there. Kill or be killed. They were all damned soul, all monster. well, of course except Dean. So, things are sharp in black n white in purgatory.
That also bring me to think something. Benny said Dean appreciated purgatory more than him because Dean felt purgatory was easier to understand. I remember Dean’s own dialog back in season 1. ‘Monsters I get, Demons I get, humans are crazy’ In other words Dean always struggle to understand human’s behavior. He did not have that much people skill and empathy has always been Sam’s middle name not Dean’s. Dean said to Sam ‘You see a demon you get the knife.’
So, in my conclusion. Dean could be already persuaded Benny from coming topside. That for a monster like him it’s better if he stayed down there because in purgatory everything was simple, pure. In human’s world not so much. You got so many to choose and some of them were strawberry flavored poison. Things that you think were good but actually destructive for you. Their talk about ‘keep your nose clean’ spoke more to me. Dean and Benny killed to survive, did anything necessary to stay alive in purgatory. They did bad things in there but nearing the end Dean kept reminding Benny to stay under the radar and not kill human topside or Dean would come to kill him. Benny too warned Dean the same, thinking that as Dean too did bad things in Purgatory (just like Benny) Benny thought Dean too would snap one day.
But that’s my theory right now. Who knows if there’s something deeper about the ‘keep your nose clean’ talk. Did they were afraid that their action in opening the portal would bring consequences in the human world?
Loose thread no.1 = The keep your nose clean talk.
Now unto Sam.
When I re-watched the episode, I realized Sam did not even that surprised to hear Kevin alive. He was just surprised that Kevin called him. He was too composed. Now, I am one of the people who never belittle Jared’s acting. So, if Jared here were playing a surprised Sam, a concerned Sam over Kevin’s plight then he was not very convincing. He did not even look so sincere in his apology to Kevin later on. Also when Dean suggested that they help Kevin to close the hell gate Sam hesitated. There’s something very disturbing in all of that.
I put a lot of stock on Jared’s acting and he was good in playing facial expressions to convey what Sam felt inside. But I was like seeing RoboSam in that cabin. His eyes were flitting around the room and never look at Dean except when they reached the last message. His stance and his body language look awkward. It did not look like a guilty Sam, it’s Sam who hid something. I can only guess Sam knew about Kevin and he was the one who ensured Kevin’s safety, maybe from a far.
It also correlates with their conversation on the porch. When Dean suggested they help Kevin, Sam hesitated saying that it’s too dangerous for Kevin, let’s just drop it. When Dean pointed out that Kevin was good for a year by himself, again the shifty eyes from Sam. He admit, “yeah he got out.” It seemed like Sam knew something about Kevin’s break out from Crowley than he let on.
If The writers wrote Sam like that for the reason that Sam matured, Sam had a breakdown, Sam just had different mindset, Sam think too much of his girlfriend and his dog than the safety of Kevin…. That doesn’t bode well. It only serves to show that Sam was selfish bastard and a douche.
It also serves to show Jared was just good at playing a douche and unconcerned bastard or he just lost his talent.
Loose thread no.2 = Sam’s reaction on Kevin’s plight feels forced and awkward.
Loose thread no.3 = The figure in front of Amelia’s house. We don’t know if they are man or woman, demon or monster or angel.
[quote]Did he stop thinking about Dean? I bet you he thought of him every damn day. People lose people, they move forward, they move on with life, but they never forget and they never let go and I guarantee you Sam never let go of Dean in his heart. Sam is a damn good person and I never doubt that he loves Dean, ever.[/quote]
Supernatural has a history or editing brotherly moments. Like the ‘don’t die talk last season finale’ The editing of Jensen’s work on TGND. And lot’s of them that is important to show the heart of the show, the brotherly bond.
I believe Sam loves Dean just like you and I want him to think of Dean all the time when he was with Amelia. I mean they do have this deep abiding love for each other right? Amelia just last year girl, she won’t mean the same thing as what Dean means to Sam. Right. So, I want that to be shown on screen. The show has a history to hide Sam’s feelings to run Sam’s story in the background. I just can’t go with assumption. What you stated above sweetondean is not yet shown on screen, thus it’s not legit.
I hope there will be a scene that shows how much Sam think of Dean, devastated about loosing Dean. and it HAS TO BE SHOWN ON SCREEN. Whether in a dialogue, in a flashback. Dean got to say, in the a season premiere no less, ‘I drink a lot, i don’t sleep, i had nightmare. You couldn’t get me out of my misery?!”
Dean was miserable without Sam and the writers write that in his dialogue. When will we get to see Sam SAY that things too in HIS dialogue?
That’s all I ask. I know Sam loves Dean but I am afraid we will not get to be shown the fact to support that theory.
Very good as always You know the show real well and yes I’m sure lots of onion to peel off ! ( Funny Jensen always say this word ! ) I believe in Sam love for his brother either ! But Benny would be reason for him to have doubt with Dean judgement ! Which cos conflict BTW them for sure ! I’ll not expect anything from the team Just enjoy them I’m sure they’ll kick ass as ever before!
Thanks for your positive review!
Agree with everything you said.
Loved the episode, feral Dean, enigmatic Sam, genius Kevin, cute dog, purgatory flashbacks, Cass mystery.
Loved loved the show is back! Missed it so much!
Looking good for the relationship. Loved the burger & fries from Sammy. Oh boys! 😛
Oh with the vet thing…yeah now that scene makes more sense….thanks for clearing that one up for me guys! She’s still a bad vet…you don’t force animals on people no matter how well intentioned! (Shelter dog owner here…) 😆
nice review Amy! We had some similar comments, some not so similar, but we both agreed on Dean’s hotness in the episode (truthfully I felt Sam’s hair was a bit long). I didn’t much like Amelia, but I’m reserving too many harsh judgments at this point. Although I do have to comment on a recurring theme I have seen in shows that have predominantly male writers–generally the writing of female characters falls a bit flat and I fear that Amelia may just be a victim of that. The bad vet part tho is unexcusable ;D .
AAH so glad Season 8 has started – that as usual was a long horibble hellatus! Giddy to have you back so missed your reviews. Late to the party again BUT I had a FANTASTIC EXCUSE I was getting ready ton meet up with cast and my boys Jensen and Jared @Torcon. Was there last year but this was even better. Being a Dean girl it’s surreal to actually spend time with Jensen.
Great review agreed with all you said DEAN + PURGATORY = SEXY DEAN ALL BLOODIED AND DIRTY. I truly believe this is going to be great season and story lines
When Dean thought Sam had died, he stopped hunting & became a house-husband. Why Sam couldn’t fall in love & decided not having to look over his shoulder is actually a good thing?
It premiered in India yesterday, so I’m four episodes behind you all.
This is the first time I’m following the show with you guys,and maybe thats why the spoilers worried me a lot. But then I stumbled here, and read the “Glass half full” reviews and I was at peace.
I loved feral Dean, but like you all I don’t want him to lose what makes him Dean; his humanity.
I was annoyed with the writers for writing Sam’s character like they did. That he didn’t bother to look for Dean (I don’t buy the “no idea where to start” theory, Sam’s pretty resourceful and smart) and he ditched Kevin though he was his responsibility.
All of the reviews here helped me make peace with it. Its either accept it, or stop watching right?
What I didn’t get though,and I hope someone here helps me understand. Sam kept the dog cause Amelia told him that its his responsibility since the dog was in that place cause of him, and he kept it. But Sam ditched Kevin, even though he was his responsibility and he was in that place partly cause of him.
I think the hooded person might be Castiel. And about Dean and Benny, I think it will only cause Sam and Dean to drift further apart. I watch the show cause of the brotherly interaction(else its just another crime show with two people fighting evil) and I hope the writers fix what they’ve broken.
I’ve written a lot for my first post on a episode here. But I loved writing about it.