Jensen Ackles Talks About Dean and Benny
Here’s a nice fresh teaser from Danielle Turchiano when the press tour hit the Supernatural set today. He talks about how great he thinks the relationship between Dean and Benny is going to change things up for season 8. It’s short, but informative!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLnOuOtsGdA&feature=colike
Seems like Benny will come in between Sam and Dean 🙁
I’m glad Jensen/Dean is happy with having Benny at his side instead of his brother Sam.
I wish I was as happy too, but it just saddens me. 🙁
I watch for the brothers fighting evil together, not to see them separated and at odds with one another. There has been enough of that already, at least for me. 🙁
I can understand how this might be upsetting, and maybe I am in the minority here, but I kind of like it when Sam and Dean have something to wrangle over. The brothers always fight with one another, it’s part of their dynamic and they have been fighting/arguing since season 1. There is nothing here that says Dean is going to reject Sam and Sam is going to be written out of the show in favor of Benny, just that it will create conflict. We learn about Sam and Dean through their conflicts, and since Sam rarely every interacts with the other characters on the show, its during his conflicts with Dean that we get to learn about him as a character. Now I am not saying that I want to return to the strife of Season 4, and I certainly don’t want to see Sam become the show scapegoat (season 5), but some nice difference of opinion and a few hearty arguments could be a good thing. (maybe?)
Hi.
I don’t mind at all when the brothers argue and bicker and even throw punches. I don’t even mind if they have to be apart for some reason or another. I understand them not needing to live inside each other’s pockets all the time.
X
What I do object to is when recurring characters are brought in to separate them, causing strife or misunderstanding between them.
X
Perhaps I am reading too much into the spoilers that have come out and things will not be like that at all; but with the intense relationship Dean seems to be having with this Benny guy and Sam having been given the Amelia story-line to show that he gave upon his brother, does open the doors to a lot of mutual accusation between them.
X
I hope I’m wrong and things will go differently but sometimes things turn out exactly as we predict them!
When watching this interview, and hearing Jensen talk about how Dean has been at war with those monsters, I couldn’t help making an association with John. John’s black-and-white view and his choices to sacrifice everything to win the war, wasn’t seen as right in the end.
I think Sam’s time with Amelia will be about him getting fresh eyes on their whole situation, and approaching hunting from a different philosophical POV, which is fine with me. I like independent Sam who is always thinking and making his own choices. And if Dean is in a soldier mindset, I can see how Sam and Dean would clash.
The problem is that ultimately Dean is going to be right. And I don’t mean that in a Dean can do no wrong way — I think Dean’s been shown doing wrong plenty of times, and I agree with you that Dean’s extreme hunting mode is likely to be presented as problematic. But in this case (and this isn’t the first time and won’t be the last, I bet) Dean’s view of what they should be doing is backed by the whole premise of the show. One way or another, because he’s convinced or because he’s forced by circumstance, Sam is going to end up on the road saving people and hunting things. Sam can’t make his own decision here because his choice is coerced, not by Dean or even by fate but just by two more seasons planned beyond this one. I can hope that he’s supposed to temper Dean with some peace and humanism, but in the basic conflict about whether he should be hunting or not, Sam has to concede. My guess and hope is that they will make him genuinely choose to hunt with Dean, but it still leaves an off taste in my mouth to know that there’s no chance he can actually make his own choice, go with it, and have it valid within the show’s world.
I have no doubt that fate will intervene so that Sam continues hunting, but that doesn’t mean that Sam’s choices and his value judgments that he expresses this season will necessarily be “wrong.” It may be that they’re right, but that the timing isn’t quite right yet – they have some unfinished business to take care of first. In the end it may be shown that the journey Sam takes this season paves the way for a new peaceful beginning for the two of them a couple of seasons down the road.
He sure can’t, which is why I wish the show would STOP with the whole “I don’t want to hunt. I hate hunting. My life sucks” storylines!
When I hear that crap, I can’t help but think, “Well, then, quit hunting” or “Just go be with Lisa then,” but of course, the boys can’t do that b/c that’s not the premise of the show! So, in the end, the brother complaining about his lot in life looks like a pathetic loser who just needs to suck it up and move on!
If the writers would just leave the brothers as hunters who embrace the life, then things would be better!
This doesn’t work either though. If they both embrace the life and agree on everything there is no tension or drama. This was my main complaint of the second half of season 6; Sam and Dean were getting along famously, agreeing with each other and working together without strife. It was so BORING! They need this conflict, they need to see the issues of hunting and life from opposite corners where they are both a little right and a little wrong and then they need to argue about it, and come to a hard fought resolution with some good sturm und drang.
They can both agree to hunt and not agree on everything. They can disagree on methods or importance of various hunts. At the very least Sam didn’t have to abandon Dean and wander off without even looking for him and then tell Dean that he’ll go with him but only because Dean is a burden and an obligation, not someone he really loves.
[quote]They can both agree to hunt and not agree on everything. They can disagree on methods or importance of various hunts. At the very least Sam didn’t have to abandon Dean and wander off without even looking for him and then tell Dean that he’ll go with him but only because Dean is a burden and an obligation, not someone he really loves.[/quote]
Exactly!
What I’m talking about, E, is both brothers agreeing that they are hunters. I don’t think it makes sense or is good for the show if one brother is FORCED to hunt w/the other. I don’t get much enjoyment out of the show if the writers make it clear that one brother would rather be anywhere else than hunting. For me, it makes the brother w/the non-hunting goal or aspiration seem pathetic. That’s a problem.
The boys can still have conflicts during their hunts, etc. We saw that in Seasons 2, 3, and 4. We don’t have to see one begrudgingly going w/the other for conflict. That’s not good conflict, IMO.
To me, the show only works if both brothers like hunting and enjoy being w/each other. It doesn’t work otherwise.
Yes, it’s true… I see your point. I am trying to find a silver lining somewhere, but I find the Sam spoilers positively depressing. See my rant below.
I like the fact that the tension between Sam and Dean is because they have lived completely opposite lifestyles and that Dean is still in warrior mode and Sam is in Stanford Sam mode. That’s the way I like them.
I’m also looking forward to seeing what Ty O. brings to the show. JA seems very excited about his role. I just hope that Dean’s story doesn’t end at mid-season and the focus turns to Cas once again. I’m okay with Cas as a secondary character, and I usually like he and Dean’s interactions, but I don’t really care to see a third of the season dedicated to a secondary character.
I’m also really excited for the new season to start. I’m not a bit worried about the brother relationship, as we still have Sam and Dean/Jared and Jensen, and that’s the only reason I’ve stuck with such lousy storytelling for several years now. I think Carver will breath new life into the show, added to the fact that it’s now out of the death slot and has a good (at least I think it will be good) lead-in. I’m also interested to see if Carver has got a tight rein on the writers for the show. S7 certainly showed that that needs to be done.
I dont doubt the boys situation will be seen favourable by some parts of the fandom. But Sam isnt Stanford Sam anymore and hasnt been for a long time. I am not comfortable with what they are doing esp after seeing this and Jared’s interview . For a show about two brothers it seems futhur away from that than ever .
Yeah . . . it pretty much sucks, IMO.
Sam has regressed for some unknown reason, and now we’re back to S1 Sam. Ok. As usual, Sam is whatever the plot needs him to be instead of an fully developed, realized character! They literally mold him to fit the year’s plot.
That is what I resent the most. Sam’s motives aren’t organic, they sway with the wind in order to make the plot go where the writers want. Sam is a main character, he deserves better treatment.
Yup.
In S2, he embraced hunting b/c he felt bad about John’s death. In S3, he was trying to be more like Dean b/c Dean was dying.
In S4, he said he had given up on normal and embraced hunting, and [i]in the same season[/i], he reunited w/Ruby b/c he [i]didn’t want to be doing this when he got old[/i], strongly implying that Sam hadn’t embraced the lifestyle. Huh? They couldn’t even be consistent in the same season w/how Sam felt or w/his motives.
In S5, I have no idea how Sam felt about anything. He was scared when Lucifer visited him in his dreams, but that’s all I can recall. I don’t know how he felt about hunting. In S6, he was soulless (loved SS) and then he was pre-S4 Sam when he got his soul back but still seemed committed to hunting. In S7, he was . . . who knows? I do know he was saving a PIP when he was on his deathbed so I would think he was pretty committed to hunting but now . . . . he’s not.
Apparently, Sam’s back to wanting normal. It would be nice to think we’ll be treated to Sam’s sudden change in perspective but I’m not holding my breath!
The link to Jared and Misha’s interviews at TV Overmind ([url]http://www.tvovermind.com/supernatural/supernatural-season-8-spoilers-jared-padalecki-misha-collins-sam-castiel/#comment-323611[/url]).
Nothing that thrills me, but we seem to be getting a clearer picture of the early part of next season.
And, wow, look at all the Sam-bashing in the comments. This year is going to be fun.
I didn’t post that link here only because Jared repeated everything he said at Comic Con and Misha said nothing. At least Jensen gave us something fresh! I was more excited over Misha telling everyone he and his wife had a little girl a few days ago. I wouldn’t use anything from that press tour as a tell. Just wait until the premiere! We only have a few days to go now.
With all respect, I think Jensen is the only one who really has anything fresh, because I think Dean, Ben, and Purgatory are going the majority of attention, therefore, Misha and Jared just have to repeat what they already said.
I read Jared’s interview and my honest first reaction is that Sam is a jerk and his story sounds really, really boring.
*Ducks rocks from Sam fans*
My first reaction feelings come from this sentence:
“I do owe you this and you’ve done a lot more for me than anybody else has, and vice versa, but you’ve earned this, so I’ll help.”
What? The whole interview makes it sound like Sam’s going to help Dean to fulfill some obligation he feels he has towards Dean and he can’t wait to serve his time and be done with it.
I’ve never been happy with Sam’s love story idea, but I certainly hope his side of the story turns out better than it sounds in this interview. I sure don’t want to see Sam moping about a girl all season.
Don’t worry about ducking them from me. I am a huge Sam fan, and [b]I[/b] think that Sam is being a jerk and his story sounds as boring as dirt.
The quotes make it sound as if Sam doesn’t love Dean, probably never did and has spent all these years with Dean either because of his need for revenge or because Dean is a big old obligation that Sam is stuck with.
Frankly, I’m glad other people say they understand leaving the life, because as long as the Leviathans are out there and Kevin is out there, I don’t. I could see him taking Bobby’s place and providing advice and cover stories while not actively hunting and leading some kind of “normal life”, but to just dump everything and say scr*w it, seems wildly OOC, incredibly selfish and downright wrong. My big fear for this year has been that Sam will be so ruined as a character that even as someone who has loved him, I will no longer be able to see his point of view. Nothing I have heard gives me any hope that I am wrong, although I desperately want to be.
[quote]
Frankly, I’m glad other people say they understand leaving the life, because as long as the Leviathans are out there and Kevin is out there, I don’t. I could see him taking Bobby’s place and providing advice and cover stories while not actively hunting and leading some kind of “normal life”, but to just dump everything and say scr*w it, seems wildly OOC, incredibly selfish and downright wrong. [/quote]
The Leviathans … the biggest threat to the world …. yeah, I keep forgetting about them. I guess they didn’t make much of an impression. I’m assuming that Sam’s post-Hell trauma is still a factor here. The hallucinations may be gone, but the trauma of it all should have dropped him a long time ago. I thought he was only hanging on because he was worried about Dean – running on adrenaline and fear mostly. I think everyone hit with a huge trauma would eventually reach the point where they need to get away from the action and to hand it off to other people for a while, even if there’s still work to be done. I see Sam in that place. Although if next season Hell doesn’t seem to be a factor anymore, I’ll eat my words.
[quote] I’m assuming that Sam’s post-Hell trauma is still a factor here.[/quote]
But do you honestly think Sam still has post-Hell trauma? Did he ever have post-Hell trauma? Not from what I saw.
I knew at the end of TBAI that Sam’s post-Hell story was over. So many were hopeful that more mention would be made of what happened to Sam or how he felt, but we didn’t get anything.
That story, sadly, is deader than dead. It ain’t resurfacing. For it to resurface, the writers have to care about exploring that aspect of Sam. I honestly don’t think they do. If they did, they would have done something w/the story back in S7 when it was occurring.
I love your optimism, but I doubt we’ll get a real reason why Sam gave the world (and his brother) the middle finger. There is no reason. It’s OOC. They just needed a reason for there to be a rift btw the brothers and for Dean to not trust Sam and lean on Benny/Ruby.
They just keep recycling plots/storylines. It’s ridiculous.
I’m pretty sure Sam’s post-Hell (well technically post-Cage) trauma is gone for good. Sam is so well balanced that 180 years of torture didn’t even slow him down. Plus we have to deal with Dean’s Purgatory trauma (as we should, I don’t want Dean’s trauma to be ignored like Sam’s was) and we will have to deal with Castiel’s dealing with Sam’s Cage memories and then with Castiel’s Purgatory trauma. Heck, we probably will have to see Benny’s horrible Purgatory trauma as well. After all he’s Dean’s new BFF, we can’t have HIM be unsympathetic. Only Sam gets to be a heartless, selfish uncaring son of a b*tch.
[quote] Only Sam gets to be a heartless, selfish uncaring son of a b*tch.[/quote]
HAHAHA! Yup! Sam seems to be the only character not worth exploring or developing.
You know, last year the boys just seemed like two guys riding in the same car because they were headed in the same direction. JP’s description of Sam makes it sound like the brothers’ relationship is even more exaggerated in that regard.
I know last year I didn’t even think they liked each other, and that’s the same feeling I’m getting now. Dean’s ticked because Sam didn’t look for him, but he needs the backup, and Sam really doesn’t want to be there, but he has some obligation that he must fulfill (whether that be to Dean or because the Levi are left over from the Apocalypse he started…I’m not sure which).
I really, really wanted to start caring about Sam’s character again, but this is not the way that is going to happen…if it turns out to be like JP makes Sam’s story sound. 🙁 I wanted better for Sam than this.
Sadly, I agree, last season I got the feeling they boys didn’t care for each other and this seems to just be becoming the new normal. Honestly, if the writers can’t come up with a way for the brothers to have a bond, why don’t they just admit it. Stop saying that they know the bond is important. Say that they think Dean’s relationship with Castiel is more interesting and Dean becoming friends with a vampire is more compelling.
If they can’t get a feel for Sam then kill him off and write him out. I love Sam, but killing him permanently would hurt less than watching his character be totally destroyed. Yes, I would stop watching, but that is becoming more and more likely with each spoiler. At least I could make a clean break and not hate the show as it destroys a character I loved.
I hear ya, Percy! I agree. I’m ready for Sam to be written out. They clearly have no plan for him and don’t know what to do w/him. I don’t think they’re interested in him, but their hands are tied b/c they can’t get rid of him. So, they’re stuck w/him. It truly feels like they have to wrack their brains thinking of something to do w/Sam.
I really wonder why it’s always Sam that’s thrown under the bus.
[quote]Frankly, I’m glad other people say they understand leaving the life, because as long as the Leviathans are out there and Kevin is out there, I don’t. I could see him taking Bobby’s place and providing advice and cover stories while not actively hunting and leading some kind of “normal life”, but to just dump everything and say scr*w it, seems wildly OOC, incredibly selfish and downright wrong. My big fear for this year has been that Sam will be so ruined as a character that even as someone who has loved him, I will no longer be able to see his point of view. Nothing I have heard gives me any hope that I am wrong, although I desperately want to be.[/quote]
I couldn’t agree more w/you, Percy! IMO, the writers have gone out of their way to write Sam in the most unsympathetic fashion as possible. There is literally NO reason he wouldn’t search for his brother. He had already accepted his was a hunter (I think), so why suddenly leave hunting?!?!
As I said above, because they have not taken the time to actually develop Sam as a character, each year, they write him to fit whatever story they wish to tell! This year, they wanted him out of hunting for some unknown reason, so he’s back to hating hunting and not caring about others. Nice!
Bus – meet Sam – you’ll be rolling over him any minute now!
I’m a bi-bro fan, and you’ll get no rocks from me!
Sam’s story does sound incredibly dull and boring. I’m fully expecting it to live down to my expectations and BE – in actuality – dull and boring.
Sam’s in a relationship and reminisces about it. Whoopee! Sounds engaging! (I’m being sarcastic)
That was a horrible interview, and I also had to read some of the sentences a few times b/c they didn’t make sense to me. Honestly, it sounded like Jared was rambling and trying to come up w/something to say. From what I’m reading, nothing much has happened w/Sam in the first EIGHT episodes so Jared was probably at loss when questioned about his character’s story.
Oh – and as far as Sam being a jerk – Sam and bi-bro fans alike complained the moment we heard Sam was not even going to look for Dean. Who does that? Of course Sam looks bad and like a jerk. How could he not? They set him up to look like a major jerk in this story! Oh well. Nothing new w/these writers.
I think it’s telling, and discouraging, that Jensen had a bunch of new stuff to say, Misha was “no comment” (which suggests Cas is the mystery plot of the season) and Jared had . . . exactly what he had at SDCC. It seems like between the point where they’d done, like, two days of filming on one episode and the point where they are almost done with the eighth episode, Jared hasn’t gotten any new material or insight to offer on his character.
Also, I’ve never heard Jared remotely approach being critical of one of his storylines before, and this time he came out and said that he had initial doubts about it.
When the SDCC spoilers came out we all figured that this was Jared speculating, as he had at Comic Con before s6, when he didn’t know what was up with Sam. This far in, though, with the story we’re getting from Jared, Jensen, Carver, Edlund consistent and unchanged, I don’t think we’re going to be seeing a revelation down the line.
Neither do I.
It doesn’t seem like Sam has a story this year. So far, I think we can safely assume he’s not very involved in helping Dean w/his issues, and I don’t think the Gates of Hell story started yet. That is a Castiel story where I’m sure Dean will play a large role. It is unclear if Sam will play a large role in that story. Sam and Castiel aren’t close, so Sam will likely be on the fringes of that story. He’ll be there, of course, but I doubt it will be a significant role.
I agree. Jensen and Misha no problems with complaining about Sera Gamble. Jensen started the sixth season off mentioning how different the show was and asking the writers what was going on. Misha has had no problems saying the writing for Castiel sucks. Jared has always been the positive one. He’s complemented all the head writers (Eric and Sera) and he has done it at time when it wasn’t popular.
Here, Jared keeps saying that everything has happened to Sam and he’s excited to see what happens now, but he hasn’t shown much excitement for the actual story. He said he has doubts about it and isn’t saying anything new. He said that the SDCC were massively misinterpreted. So, why is he regressing back into reaffirming that mass misinterpretation?
MAybe Jeremy Carver lied to Jared and he is just now realizing it?
While retiring from hunting isn’t the direction for Sam I would have chosen had I gotten a vote, I can see how it makes some sense for the character. Unlike Dean, Sam doesn’t remember the night YED killed their mom and wasn’t traumatized by it the way Dean and John were, so he never had that same sense of mission growing up. He was forced to hunt against his will.
The only time Sam really embraced hunting was when he was doing it for revenge – after Jess died and after Dean went to Hell – and I guess Soulless Sam did too, although that choice of SS never really made sense to me. But doing it for revenge really bit him in the ass, so it makes sense that he won’t make that mistake again.
Since Sam has been back from Hell, with his soul, I’ve gotten the sense that he was hunting only because after so many years doing it, hunting was “normal” to him, and because he wanted to be there for his brother. With Dean gone, and the opportunity to have a different life presenting itself to him, it makes sense he would get away from hunting.
But I can understand that Sam, having found a life that works better for him than hunting ever did, would decide that even with Dean back, he’s out. I don’t think that makes him a jerk or selfish. Sam’s no more selfish for not hunting than Jody, Lisa, or any of hundreds of other PIPs on this show who learned about the supernatural world but chose not to give up their lives to fight it.
What I’d like to see from Sam though, is him using that strategy-oriented brain of his to try to look for a longer term solution than spending your life fighting a fight that no one ever seems to win. It fits that he would join in the fight to end this supernatural struggle once and for all, and that once he’s adjusted to his life changing again, throw everything he has into that goal.
Hmmmm. Maybe I am Pollyanna here, but I can’t help but feel that all of these weird ‘Sam has a love interest’, ‘Sam stops looking for Dean’ and ‘Sam is content and out of hunting,’ story bits feel like a smoke screen, like they are covering something up by spreading around this tripe to masque what’s really going on. It’s too incongruous, too ooc and just plain OFF. I am of the mind (or more like hoping with every fiber of my being) that there is way more to this seemingly lame story than what we are being fed via these interviews and spoilers. I agree with another poster upthread that Jared seems to be working VERY hard to weave a plausible story thread for the fans with very little info.
My personal fanwank is that Sam went and did something stupid and Winchestery, like made a deal with the Alpha Vamp (after somehow figuring out Dean was in purgatory) to secure his return. The Alpha Vamp would be the only creature left on earth who could get the doors open again and Dean’s new BFF Benny is a Vamp as well. Then maybe later Sam’ll have to do something awful, like get turned or give his soul back up or something as payment for getting Dean back. The Alpha Vamp did love the idea of Soulless Sam as his “perfect weapon” so maybe he would feel it’s worth it to help Sam if the payoff was good. Something like this would be all kinds of awesome, and much more in line with the type of thing I feel Sam would try to do (along with lying to Dean about it). Ugh, Sam’s story CAN’T be that he retired from hunting and has moved on, and is only helping Dean out of begrudging familial obligation, it just can’t, it makes NO SENSE! He didn’t even know Dean was dead for sure, it makes no sense that he would just shrug “ah well, free at last” and move on. And since when has death stopped a Winchester anyway? Where is the guy who was willing to kill Bobby to get Dean back in Mystery Spot, where is the guy who said “you know me, you know why, I can’t leave my Brother out there.” I am hoping for a miracle here, for some consideration of Sam as a character and an integral and indispensable part of this show. I am praying that somewhere just one writer will treat him with the dignity that he deserves. I mean, I am no writer and I was able to come up with something at least plausible and way more in character than what I have heard so far, so I would expect Carver et all to do at least this well. 🙁
E, your theory sounds good and would be in line w/how I would expect a Winchester to behave.
I would hope JC & Co. would understand that a lame story about Sam’s relationship w/a girl no one knows (and one I don’t care about) would be inadequate and simply a bad story to lay on a main character, but you never know w/these writers.
Everything you mentioned is spot on! There’s no way Sam wouldn’t look for Dean. He would. I honestly don’t think Sam would stop looking for Dean. He’s a hunter w/a wealth of knowledge, but for whatever reason gave Dean (and the world) the middle finger. How in the world can they make that sympathetic? They can’t. Sam wasn’t left w/a body to bury or one over which to mourn. Dean disappeared. Sam questioned Crowley about Dean’s disappearance, and Crowley mentioned the weapon having a kick. Sam is not an idiot so why write him like one?
That sure sounds better than the spoilers so far, E!!!
They wanted to give Dean the Supernatural/Purgatory sl so they automatically thought we will give Sam ‘normal’ only Sam isnt normal if that hasnt been established over 7 yrs then nothing has .
The problem is we have seen Sam willing to take on hell itself to save Dean . We saw him reassemble himself to get to Dean. The idea he didnt know what happened and didnt know where Dean was is flimsy for a hunter who knows the better than that.
I had my concerns when they fixed Sam for season 8 what they would do with Sam now his Supernatural aspects seems to of disappeared .Giving him normal per se isnt a bad idea but it should of been layed out with proper layered storytelling not oh well everybody’s gone no one is tying me to the hunt I will go off then . Which is how it is coming across .
All I hope for is that Benny comes in between Sam and Dean.I mean i just love it when they fight thy are just soooooo cute when they fight.I mean every time they fight it seems there is just really no reason they are fighting for.But if Benny comes between them they will have a reason to fight……. 😀
Only if Dean is wrong about Benny. If I have to live with one more “Dean is always right about supernatural creatures and Sam is always wrong” storyline, I will scream. Enough already.
Actually I hate it when they fight and the spoilers already have them fighting about how Sam doesn’t want to hunt anymore, so fighting about Benny and having Sam be on the wrong side of THAT as well will be one step too much.
I am trying really hard to hold on to hope! I love these guys and I love this show……..but every time I read a new interview or spoiler, I feel sick. I am so scared!! I had such high hopes for JC, but it sounds like he doesn’t even know the characters. I sure hope they are all in on a big prank to keep the new season under wraps and when Season 8 starts on 10/3, we will all scream with excitement to see our boys – Sam & Dean – together as brothers, the way they are meant to be. There can be plenty of conflict and drama with other characters in the show, it doesn’t have to be between them. I am so scared this is the beginning of the end and there is no need to worry about seasons 9 & 10.
I’m a long time lurker and one day more to the premiere, and I had to come forward and say, that I’m scared what they’ve done to the characters.
Like a few of you here, I’m might wait and see how the story progresses, and then decide whether or not I should watch it.
I would like to remember the characters the way they were written, not what they’ve become.
It shakes the very foundation of the show.