Spoiler Update 6/28 – Big Casting News
Zap2It is reporting that a casting call has gone out for the first episode to be shot, aka episode 3, that will start shooting on July 9th. This is the episode that Jensen Ackles is directing. According to them, they are casting for a woman named Amelia who…be prepared…will be a love interest for Sam. The character will be a doctor in her late 20's or early 30's and she's overwhelmed by a devastating tragedy. Sounds like Sam's type of gal!
Now, before all of you get in a big twist about this, I do recall season four when early spoilers had a love interest, a waitress named Kristy, for Sam. Turns out that woman was Ruby. Now I'm not suggesting Sam is sleeping with demons again or anything like that, just that sometimes these spoilers aren't what they seem. However, they are saying this gal will be recurring, or at least hinting it. That part wasn't super clear.
What I found most interesting about this news is the episode will be about Sam investigating grisly murders "related to the Occult." Aren't they all related to the occult? Ah well, sounds like maybe it's another Sam centric episode while Jensen directs. I'm cool with that, as long as it's a little better written than last season's "The Girl Next Door."
Here's the link to the Zap2It article:
What do you think? Spoiler or foiler?
I was hoping for Sam working on getting Dean out of Purgatory, not this. Season 4 again would be nasty.
I’d prefer if it’s a fake.
I’m hoping that Dean will be out of Purgatory before this hunt happens. As Sage says, we don’t need another season four, Sam doesn’t care enough about Dean. As far as Amelia being recurring, in addition to the Kristy spoiler from season four, Lindsey from FTBYAM was listed as possible recurring, and we never saw her again. So I’m willing to wait and see. Just please no more demon sex or having Sam knowingly have sex with a supernatural being.
[quote]I’m hoping that Dean will be out of Purgatory before this hunt happens. As Sage says, we don’t need another season four, Sam doesn’t care enough about Dean. [/quote]
Am I the only one who doesn’t care about negative fan reaction? No matter what they do with Sam there are people going to people pitching a fit. I’m really, really, really hoping that the writers will just concentrate on building interesting storylines and stop writing for anticipated fan reaction or else we’ll end up with another season 7 where nothing happened.
And I have no doubts that we’ll see Sam caring about Dean. I think that’s a given. That doesn’t mean that has to be, or should be, his only storyline this season.
I am with you. I think the writers should take negative fan reactions with a pinch of salt and as you said just concentrate on building interesting storylines, with some brother bonding ofcourse.
As for Sam not caring about Dean, that sounds odd to me. That is the basis of the show. I also think that one should not put too much emphasis on a single sentence, a scene, a plot point, or relationship but see the show as a whole. And stop seeing it from the perspective of one character. Because the truth is that this show is about two characters.
I am so excited for Season 8 that Sam & Dean could be standing in a phone booth reading out names for an hour and i would be happy (:
Still,this sounds like we might get some brother angst and a new fresh storyline..so yay.
Lets also not discount the wonderful opportunity for seeing Sam shirtless,in bed,kissing..
I think we can assume that the writers will cover all our favourite characters..it is my wish that they write themselves a kickass Season Story arc and don’t even listen to us fans..i am sure Kripke didn’t
.I have faith..
Remember this is episode 3, and we’ve already read that Dean will get out of Purgatory quickly and some time will have passed when he does get out. We will probably see that in episode 1&2.
I would love if this is something that happened while Sam was looking for a way to get Dean out of Purgatory..a flashback scene. If that’s the case, we wouldn’t see Dean in the episode.
I excited to see what Jeremy Carver has planned. Can’t wait for season 8!!!!
“She’s described as “a brave, sweet, smart, sarcastic woman.”
This sounds just like Lisa’s “strong, independent woman” character description to me, and it makes me want to gag. It also sounds like a redo of Dean’s Lisa story and; quite frankly, I’m sick of redo stories for the brothers like the audience is six years old. I expected more from Carver.
If this is true, once again I’ll be FF’g through all Sam scenes. Now I’m waiting to see if there are any spoilers for Dean and whether or not he has a story this season. If he does, I hope it’s connected to something horror/drama.
Whether I watch the show this season or not is all on Dean now.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. What’s up with those cookie-cut descriptions of girls? Women can have different personalities.
Ugh – I agree – that description is just nauseating. Could be worse though. At least it doesn’t say ‘kickass’
Love interest. Blah.
[quote]”She’s described as “a brave, sweet, smart, sarcastic woman.”
This sounds just like Lisa’s “strong, independent woman” character description to me, and it makes me want to gag. It also sounds like a redo of Dean’s Lisa story and; quite frankly, I’m sick of redo stories for the brothers like the audience is six years old. I expected more from Carver.
[/quote]
To me the descriptions sounds vague, typical for a casting notice, and fits almost every female character the show has brought on for either a guest or a reoccurring spot. Last year the net with abuzz with complaining that the Amy episode description (Sam runs into an old friend who has a kid and a mortgage) HAD to be a redo of the Lisa/Ben story, and look how different that one turned out?
[quote]If this is true, once again I’ll be FF’g through all Sam scenes. Now I’m waiting to see if there are any spoilers for Dean and whether or not he has a story this season. If he does, I hope it’s connected to something horror/drama.
Whether I watch the show this season or not is all on Dean now.[/quote]
I think the fans who are only watching for Dean are going to fast-forward through all of the Sam scenes no matter what they do with him, so they might as well do something interesting with Sam to keep us Sam fans happy!
If some time has passed at the beginning of the season before Dean gets out of Purgatory, then the writer’s have alot to work with using that scenario. I hope we see lots of flashbacks of Dean in Purgatory and Sam topside and what happened to them.
Sounds interesting to me.. and more opportunaties for me to see Jared shirtless.. so not complaining!
I swear that it’s also the source of the information as well as the actual casting write up that causes a lot of rolling eyeballs. The casting call is rather generic. I’m sure they know what they’re looking for. But for some reason when these entertainment sites with their exclusives throw out things like “love interest” they think fans are going to start salivating in droves. It’s all part of the promo machine. I think this is part hype from a site that wants all the fan girls to go “squee!”
that site is known for running polemic polls (you know, about Destiel and that kind of stuff) to have lots of visitors. and I read a couple of problematic things from them.
Yeah, I know – did the casting call actually say ‘love interest’ or is Carina extrapolating?
Personally I was hoping that we would get Charlie back to be friends with Sam while they work on getting Dean out of Purgatory – but, whatever.
I just don’t see ‘love interests’ working out on SPN – they certainly haven’t so far.
I agree. I’m taking this news with a “grain of salt” and have a wait and see attitude. No use getting worked up over nothing….It’s too early!
Love interest huh? Whether for Sam or Dean, I am all for it! 😉
A spoiler, a start date [i]and[/i] the countdown clock all in one 24 hour period! Sweet……
A spoiler like this is so generic, at this early stage, it could be something huge, or it could be nothing. Though, as she’s a doctor, she [i]would[/i] be handy to keep around for emergencies because Sam and Dean’s needlework really isn’t that great. Maybe one of them gets injured on a hunt and whiskey and dental floss just won’t cut it this time, and they can’t go to a hospital so hello ‘borrowed’ doctor.
I do hope that Dean is out of Purgatory at this stage because if not, the writers had better have something in mind for Sam to offset the inevitable shitstorm that will come his way from some fans if he isn’t. I dare say he will be though.
A love interest (who will hopefully live) would be good for Sam, and it might brighten the show up some as last season has quite a dark, depressing feel to it.
That being said, given who the director of this episode is, I do not want to see [i]any[/i] sort of a sex scene between Sam and Amelia, not in this episode. That would just be too weird for all involved. In a way it’d be like Dean watching….. No. No, no, no, no, no!
Me too.
I wanted someone interacting with Sam exclusively ..if it in the form of a love interest i don’t mind..I will actually be glad (if it does not end tragically..even if it has to end let it end like Sam and sarah)
I’m not a fan of love interest storylines on any show, simply because they bore me, so this news doesn’t especially interest me. But…on the other hand…I wanted Sam to get a friend next season, someone who he can talk to because this could give us some peeks into that pretty head of his.
This news made me smile. First, because some of us have been saying for a long time that Sam needs to start talking to someone, and he’ll have to start talking now! He also needs to start having emotions again. Second, because I want Sam to start healing, and building new relationships is a sign of healing. Third, because one of my criticisms for last season was that there was no tension because they didn’t have anyone other than Bobby that they (and we the audience) were afraid to lose. Fourth, because hopefully this is a sign that Carver might be trashing all of those rules from previous seasons (can’t bring in love interests, must kill all the females) that made everything too predictable and start mixing things up again.
[quote]I’m not a fan of love interest storylines on any show, simply because they bore me, so this news doesn’t especially interest me. But…on the other hand…I wanted Sam to get a friend next season, someone who he can talk to because this could give us some peeks into that pretty head of his.[/quote]
Yes, but why does it have to be a love interest? I would rather it be a friend or a fellow hunter that he talks to. I hate soap operas and that is what this sounds like. We don’t need another Lisa on SPN. That was sooo boring.
[quote]I hate soap operas and that is what this sounds like. We don’t need another Lisa on SPN. That was sooo boring.[/quote]
It’s only a soap opera if they add a lot of unnecessary drama to it – like love triangles or forbidden loves with a lot of obstacles. If it’s a developed in a sweet, healthy, and natural way – like the way Bobby and Jody’s relationship developed – then there’s nothing soapy about it.
When I first read this spoiler I also wished they were giving Sam a friend and not a love interest (not being a romance fan at all) but, having thought more on this spoiler since I posted my above comment this morning, I have to agree with [b]cd28[/b]. Sam does need to start having emotions again. It could be the start of him healing and lead to some wonderful character development for Sam. Plus, like [b]Sharon[/b] says below, it’s time Sam had something good happening in his life. Although I doubt it will be a particularly long lasting romance anyway.
That is if this spoiler is completely correct. The ‘love interest’ and ‘recurring’ terms could have been included just to stir up fandom and keep interest alive in Show throughout the summer hiatus. These terms often lead to a lot of passionate debate in the fandom. 😆
I’m going to have to agree with this.
I mean, long lasting romance can’t happen in SPN, imo, at least till the show is practically over.
I can’t see how it’d work, how they can make the boys drive around hunting mosters and having girlfriends.
It reminds me of how people talked about the possibilities of having Dean/Bela and Sam/Ruby all traveling in the Impala. It’s just cringe-worthy imo.
So unless they’re turning SPN into Melrose Place, I just can’t see it.
Love interests are essential to any story because that’s life. The most violent stories can have love in them if they are about normal men and women. Love will never be a central theme in SPN in any case and no one expects it either.
The chances are she wont end up in a good place but that doesnt mean Sam shouldnt have something.
Otherwise we still end up with Dean having a meaningful relationship with Castiel and Sam gets a laptop.
BWAH!!! 😆 😆 😆
I don’t know if you were being intentionally funny so I apologize if my reaction offends, but this is hilarious. You realize I could to a whole Short Attention Span theater or fan fiction based on this. Great comment!
The challenge is on!
It would be a repetitious story, Alice, as the show has already established the Dean/Cas/Sam love triangle with Dean as the prize. It’s only the outcome that has not been determined in that Dean hasn’t yet picked which one is the winner. As S7 ended, he’s withdrawn to a completely neutral position .
Is this a joke? I’m not really sure.
I’m…confused.
It’s half a joke. In the sub-text, Sam loved Dean best and Dean loved Sam best. Enter Cas, who was devoted to his father. Cas gives up on God, and puts all his trust and faith in Dean; i.e., Cas loves Dean best; their ‘special bond.’ Dean is the prize in the triangle. Cas messes up big time with the broken trust, sending Dean into a deep depression while, at the same time Sam has his own issues. Dean’s now on neutral ground.
Enter girlfriend for Sam. I can see a fanfic story unfolding. Sam turns his attention to the good doctor to make Dean jealous. Meanwhile, Cas is doing everything he can in Purgatory to regain Dean’s trust. Dean has an earth-shaking dilemma — does he vie for Sam’s attention or go turn to Cas to make Sam jealous. Oh, the drama! Then the good doctor dumps Sam, Sam goes into a depression, and Dean has to pull him out of it. Cas gets ticked off and leaves. Back to square one, and all lives happily ever after until Sam and Dean adopt a baby boy and name him Bobby John. Sequel follows.
Yeah, I know. I’m being bratty, but my creative juices are flowing. Sorry about that, but in my defense, I did faithfully watch the last two seasons. 😉
LOL!! I’d read that one!
No, sorry Ginger but I’m still confused. Is this how you see that show, that Dean is a prize and both Sam and Castiel are trying to win his hand before they go off and have babies?
Jesus, that’s the kind of fanfiction not even I would read and I’d read anything!
I wouldn’t read it either, but I sat through two seasons of it on TV!
LOL I love how your creative juice flows.
I like creative people. There are people out there who thought ‘hey, you know what? there are vampires on Mars’ and I envy their mind. Sooo creative but then again a good idea/plot is nothing if it’s not well written.
As long as it’s fanfiction I don’t have a problem. Fanfiction was written by fans for fans and for fun. Cheers!!! Hope your creative juice never ceases to flow.. 😀
Well, but Castiel is not a love-interest. He’s a friend (when he’s not an antagonist, that is), and I doubt he’s going to be in every episode (let’s hope).
[quote]The chances are she wont end up in a good place[/quote]
Is it bad that i found this funny
[i]I think the fans who are only watching for Dean are going to fast-forward through all of the Sam scenes no matter what they do with him, so they might as well do something interesting with Sam to keep us Sam fans happy![/i]
If Dean fans are fast forwarding through all Sam scenes, then what do they do when Sam and Dean are in a scene together..which is the most of the time, after all this show is about two brothers. They must be fast forwarding through most of the show..so why bother watching.
I love all of this show and can’t wait for season 8..and whatever Jeremy Carver has planned.
Blech. Really? With the best setup for a season arc in years and they do this in the 3rd ep? I’ll wait but I won’t be happy.
It’s the “recurring.” It implies too much. It implies the Purgatory story is already purged by ep 3. Or else, it endangers fans turning on Sam yet again, if he’s getting nooky while Dean runs for his life in Purgatory.
The only scenario I see making me happy is if Dean is out and injured (though what a waste to not use Purgatory more), and she is his doctor, making us all “awww” and angsty. And Sam leaves her soon after to go back on the road with Dean. God I don’t want Lisa #2. Do they know how that sucked?
What does this do for the On the Road aspect? Having Sam yearning to be elsewhere, is not what I want this late in the show. And even worse is setting this up as an ensemble idea, where Cas and Amelia are part of the group. UGH. When critics complained about a diminishing world, they didn’t mean make Being Human 2.
But what a delicate dance to write this one, and if it’s Dabb and Loflin as usual, the killers of all continuity and good taste, yeah, it’s gonna suck. It’ll be a combo Becky/Amy disaster. I just am hoping Carver recognizes “Suck” when he sees it.
I agree with you. The storylines that grow out of ‘love interest’ scenarios are just not the type of situations that I associate with Supernatural.
But who knows? Maybe JC has something interesting in mind that will put a Supernatural twist on this but, like what? — Evil demon girlfriend (Ruby) and saint perfect girlfriend (Jessica), potential love interest who’s a supernatural being (Madison, Amy) been there done all that already.
Sad to say but ‘normal’ and the Winchesters just doesn’t go together.
To follow up on Mal’s comment, my objection to introducing a love interest for either brother is based on:
(1) It sounds like a ‘coming of age’ story for Sam, whether that be getting his human feelings back, healing from his trauma over the past years, or healing his emotional scars. That’s the same story they gave to Jo. Her’s was a coming of age story trying to break away from Ellen, and what it did was shackle Ellen, who could have been a character better used without this shackling. In this case, I feel that Sam’s character will be shackled for the whole season, just as Dean was with Lisa. At least there was no mention of domestication.
(2) It anchors Sam to one place, and then there’s the possibility of those awful weekly one-sided phone calls like Dean was doing to Lisa, or even the occasional booty call. That changes the tone of the show, and I much prefer a gritty road trip in the shadowy back roads of rural America. I want grit back. It could be argued that the tone for the show won’t change, but I reject that. The tone of the show, and particularly Dean’s character, was changed with Lisa, and there was that forever spectra of Lisa’s ghost always in the backseat of the Impala.
(3) There’s the description of a doctor who ‘recently suffered a tragedy.’ That sounds scary close to her being so understanding of Sam’s past, of him being so deeply hurt by the loss of Jessica that he is unable to love again. Yet, she can identify and understand what he’s going through and help him (with sarcasm — snark in Dean language — as the hook to gaining his interest) work through it. That heavily borders of soap stuff and re-do stories.
(4) I believe there was a Dean/Cas/Sam thing established in the sub-text since Cas’s introduction, and a love triangle is instantly established with ‘who will win SAM’s affections with a recurring love interest. It seems to me the only outcome options to that scenario are (a) will they or won’t they get it on, (b) will Sam choose staying with the girl and, thus, outgrow the co-dependent relationship with his brother, or go with Dean; and (c) will she or won’t she die. That’s not the kind of tension I care for in what is supposed to be a horror/drama show.
(5) It’s a fluff, human story, I agree, and there’s no way around it. If this is the story, or even if it is a sub-plot that they are giving Sam, he becomes a secondary character to the supernatural action, and if he’s out of that, I have no interest in what he’s doing. He can be shirtless, shag, and kiss and make-up all he wants and I can FF through it, as I did with Dean/Jo and Dean/Lisa/Ben scenes without any sense of loss at all.
What I would have preferred to this bit of news is that the hunting community be expanded with hunters that could show up, if needed, over the course of two or three more seasons. This could have established Sam and Dean as the elite in the hunting community, as they should be. As it is, no other hunter has ever heard of the Winchesters. That diminishes their characters and what they do and have supposedly accomplished (in my mind, anyway).
I do grant that it is very early to put much in this type of spoiler, but the casting call is out there. I don’t know what the plans are for this character, and I don’t know whether or not Dean will still be in Purgatory. Neither of these things make a difference in my lowered estimation of Carver, because this is the last thing I would have wanted to hear about S8 and it turned out to be the first. It completely blankets any excitement or interest in Sam’s S8 story. I hope there’s more to it than this, but past experience tells me that Lisa went a whole season, Jo just kept coming back trying to be rehabilitated, and Being Human (what little I’ve seen of it) always seems to heavily play with love interests.
Carena also tweeted that Dean’s stuff was “too spoilery to report on.” I’m not buying that BS any more. We’ve heard that before, and a lot of it. I’m waiting for an actual spoiler that says what Dean will be doing, if anything. Based on past experience with this show, the only person that can be believed in that regard is Jensen, so I’m waiting to hear what he has to say…and that will probably be at Comic Con.
P. S. And I’m not saying that Jeremy Carver has lied; he hasn’t. In fact, he has not said one thing since his showrunnership was announced, which means I have to rely on JA.
you are perfect and your arguments are perfect, it’s like you read my mindand expressed everything 100x better than i could. Let me love you XD.
I wish Carver had the same level of understanding of the show you seem to have.
And you got all that from just three words!! Oh lad, I thought my imagination tended to run away with me at times but Ginger, I’ve got nothing on you!
Just in relation to each of your numbered points:
(1) Since when does having a recurring love interest equate to ‘shackling’? And how was Dean shackled to Lisa? He buggered off after two episodes! He went to say goodbye because he thought he was going to die in [i]Twihard[/i], they were finished by [i] Mannequin 3[/i], and then he rescued them in [i]Let it Bleed[/i]. That is the sum of the key incidents involving Lisa so if that’s your definition of ‘shackling’ then Sam and Dean have been shackled to Bobby for years. Lisa was in less than one third of the episodes of season 6, and wasn’t in season 7 at all so she was hardly a dominant presence.
(2) No, it doesn’t. There are times you really need to consider these spoilers from a logical point of view. Carver et all are not going to be so stupid as have one half of the show stuck in one place, forsaking everything else for the sake of their recurring love interest (God, recurring could mean one episode, it might mean no episodes. It might mean a doctor they use from time to time).
I thought Dean evolved with Lisa, why do you take that to be a bad thing? Sorry, but Dean can’t be the care free, carousing, womanising guy he was back in season 1. He’s considerably older, has experienced a lot more and it was necessary for him to experience a proper romantic relationship. Now he’s tried it and he’s moved on. Isn’t that an awful lot better than having never tried it at all?
(3) Why are you assuming it will be Jessica that she will be able to relate to him over? Perhaps she’s suffered from addiction in the past, perhaps she’s betrayed a family member, or perhaps she’s lost a sibling? Sam’s life is not dominated by one event.
(4) So it started as a love triangle between Sam, Dean and Castiel with Dean as a prize? Now you think there will be a love triangle between Sam, Dean and Amelia??
To answer your questions you asked in this point:
(a) Yes, they probably will ‘get it on’ given that it’s meant to be a love interest story
(b) Unless they want to end the show at season 8, episode 3, Sam will always choose Dean. Dean will always choose Sam. They can throw in as many distractions and obstacles as they want via Castiel, Amelia, Ruby, Lisa etc, Sam and Dean will [i]always[/i] pick each other.
When (if the situation even arises) Sam chooses to stay with Dean (and it’d be an awful edjit of a girl who’d issue an ultimatum to Sam in that regard because if she knew anything about him then she’d know that she would end up out on her ear quick sharp) then it will be because he [i]wants[/i] to be with him, not because he [i]has[/i] to be with him like it was in earlier seasons. That’s not co-dependency, that’s free choice.
(c) [i]every[/i] episode has a will she/won’t she die element to it. It’s one of the storytelling devices that adds tension
(5) Okay, you’ve stated here that you’ve no interest in a story on Sam’s human side and you’ll be fast forwarding any scenes with him in it. However, in an earlier post you stated that ‘once again I’ll be FF’g through all Sam scenes’ showing you’ve done it before. In past seasons Sam was involved in the supernatural side of the story so it seems to me that you fast forward through Sam’s scenes regardless of what they are about. So I wonder, is your hostility of this spoiler based on what the spoiler said, or because it’s about Sam, a character you clearly have no interest in?
Regardless of how much you dislike ‘love interest’ stories etc etc, one of the good things that should come from this is a chance for some Sam point of view, something that has been sorely lacking for the past 4 years. I’d have thought viewers would [i]embrace [/i]the chance to learn something about Sam the man, and not Sam the plot device. And Ginger, perhaps this much needed point of view might go part way to enabling you to actually like (or at least condone) Sam?
[quote]As it is, no other hunter has ever heard of the Winchesters.[/quote] Yes, they have. We’ve seen other hunters who’ve known the Winchesters scattered throughout the show, included the past two seasons. How many hunters did Dean communicate with in [i]Born Again Identity[/i] (wait, there were a lot of Sam scenes in that episode so you might have just fast forwarded through it all!) Both Sam and Dean were also hunted down and killed because other hunters know what they’d done.
However, to expect other hunters to fawn all over Sam and Dean because they’re good at their job (actually, because they’re good at fixing the messes they created) is rather silly. If anything, other hunters would [i]dislike[/i] them and treat them with suspicion because Sam and Dean tend to create problems for them i.e. extra demons, extra supernatural deaths and extra monsters.
I really don’t get this fascination with caring so much about what other people, people they don’t know outside of work, think of them. Is it not more important that the people they [i]do[/i] know and the people they [i]save[/i], think highly of them?
Is it also not feasible that other hunters don’t [i]know[/i] the good they’ve done because they have no way of finding out? There isn’t a Hunters Newsletter out there to put this type of news about and given their involvement in things like the Apocalypse Sam and Dean are not going to be blabbing to people about it.
Also, Sam and Dean tend to work solely with each other, so how could anyone, apart from themselves, know how good they are when they’ve never seen them in action?
[quote]Carena also tweeted that Dean’s stuff was “too spoilery to report on.” I’m not buying that BS any more.[/quote] And do you not think this is [i]logical[/i]? Given that they probably haven’t started filming yet (as JA only went back to work earlier this week, and that was for preparatory work for the first episode being filmed, the episode Amelia is in) then there is very little [i]to[/i] reveal about Purgatory yet. If Carena came right out and said ‘Dean is not in Purgatory in this episode’ then it will take a huge amount of anticipation [i]away[/i] from the first few episodes because the audience will know that, by the end of episode 2, Dean is out of Purgatory. The way this is phrased, we don’t know if Dean is there or if he’s not.
Those who reveal these spoilers are cute hoors, they know what they’re doing. They know to release just the right type, and the right amount of information to get fans talking without ever divulging anything major about the show, especially not at this extremely early hour.
My, what a confrontational post. Let me just address a couple of your points.
I am an equal opportunity fast forwarder. Dean/Lisa and Dean/Ben scenes got as much FF’ing as Sam/Ruby2 scenes. Cas alone scenes have too, as has many of the lone PIP scenes.
This isn’t a Sam -vs- Dean thing. I don’t like love interest stories on SPN. [b]IF[/b] Sam’s story for the season is a love interest to get in touch with his human side, I’ll FF thru Sam scenes. [b]IF[/b] it was Dean instead of Sam, I would FF thru Dean scenes. I have no interest in love stories on SPN.
Yes, I do want Sam to be 100% human (Dean, too). I am beyond bored with ‘what’s wrong with Sam.’ I am equally bored with Dean’s three-years of emoting, moping. I want to see the Sam from Point of No Return. I do not expect or want S1/S2 Dean, but I do want to see Dean the hunter again.
As far as I am concerned, S6 and S7 SPN did a tremendous disservice to both Sam and Dean’s characters. Both of them were plot devices. IMO, the end of S7 left both brothers in a position to take the characters in any direction Carver wants to go. Love interest is the last thing I wanted to hear, but it is a public casting call, so we know that plot or sub-plot will be in the season. That doesn’t mean that’s Sam’s season’s story at all, but it does mean that I have no interest in that plot or sub-plot and it is my choice to FF through it.
I’ve seen a lot of posts about no Sam’s POV. I’ve had no trouble with Sam’s POV…well, until S7 when both of the characters were all over the place. S7 was a total mess. More than a lack of either character’s POV, I think that S6 was trying to put a new showrunner stamp on the show and in S7 there was a lack of anybody running the ship, a lack of any overall plan for the season, and a lack of control over the writer’s room. I did not like the direction taken in either season.
As far as the ‘too spoilery to report on,” that’s what some of we Dean favoring fans hung onto all through S6 and S7 while we were waiting for his story. Both seasons we were told by TPTB that Dean would be examining why he hunted. We were told that Sam would be suffering from soullessness and his wall falling. Dean did not find a purpose for hunting in S6. He just lost more and moped more. When questioned about Dean’s story for S7 at Comic Con, JA said that Dean didn’t really have a story, while TPTB said Dean would be examining why he hunted. He didn’t have a story and he didn’t find a reason to hunt. Sam did have his soulless and hellpain story, and both came to a conclusion, even if the whole thing was poorly done.
I can’t accuse Carver of lying, because he hasn’t said anything, but I can say that I have never found JA to lie to the fans and that’s why I will wait to hear what he says Dean’s story is for S8 at Comic Con. We should hear more about the love story from JP, too, and find out whether it is a season story or a sub-plot.
As far as Carena is concerned, I don’t know her and I don’t read her stuff, but the “too spoilery to report on,” doesn’t fly with me. Yes, I do think it is[i] logical[/i] to expect not to be lied to (and I think it’s [i]logical[/i] to expect canon to be established and followed — not thrown out or changed at will to fit an individual episode’s writing.)
I don’t know whether or not the Purgatory story is even going to be a big part of the season, let alone if Dean will or will not be in Purgatory when Sam has his fling. It makes no difference to me, nor do I think it has an impact on Sam’s love story one way or the other. Since there was such favorable fan reaction to the Purgatory story, I can’t imagine that the showrunner wouldn’t run with it somehow, though.
If Sam is doing his love story while Dean is in Purgatory, it is not connected to the supernatural. If Dean is out of Purgatory while Sam has his love story, it is not connected to the supernatural. It is a separate story to whatever action is going on. Perhaps it is a separate story that will make a fundamental change to Sam’s character, If so, the recaps and the finale will reveal that, so I will have lost nothing in FF’g thru those scenes.
As far as other hunters go, they do not have to [i]fawn[/i] over Sam and Dean. In fact, tension could be inserted in the show if they did not fawn over them. I would, however, much prefer that the hunting community be expanded and the brothers take their rightful place as the elite hunters we are told they are, and I would much prefer recurring hunters than recurring love interests.
Now, before anyone assumes I am anti-woman on the show, let me say that I would have loved for Ellen sans Jo to have lived and been a recurring character. I would also love to see a character like Ezra be recurring, or even a character funny like Marian, the fairy lady, as recurring rather than the village idiot Garth. IMO, this show has done well with its older actress characters and generally awful with the younger actress and teenage characters.
[quote]I am an equal opportunity fast forwarder. Dean/Lisa and Dean/Ben scenes got as much FF’ing as Sam/Ruby2 scenes. Cas alone scenes have too, as has many of the lone PIP scenes.[/quote] So what scenes do you actually watch on SPN? Is it just the scenes where Sam and Dean are together? How do they even make any sense to you without watching the other scenes? How can you understand anything about Sam or his motivations etc in season 4 without watching Sam and Ruby scenes? How can you know Dean without watching him in all settings? The Dean at the dinner table is just as much Dean as the Dean with a machette in his hand.
[quote]This isn’t a Sam -vs- Dean thing. I don’t like love interest stories on SPN. IF Sam’s story for the season is a love interest to get in touch with his human side, I’ll FF thru Sam scenes. IF it was Dean instead of Sam, I would FF thru Dean scenes. I have no interest in love stories on SPN.[/quote] What if those love interest stories tell us something valid about the supernatural story or the character ala [i]Heart[/i]?
[quote]Yes, I do want Sam to be 100% human (Dean, too). I am beyond bored with ‘what’s wrong with Sam.’ I am equally bored with Dean’s three-years of emoting, moping. I want to see the Sam from Point of No Return. I do not expect or want S1/S2 Dean, but I do want to see Dean the hunter again.[/quote] I always saw Dean as a hunter. He might have questioned why he was doing it and he might have stopped hunting for a while in season 6 but he never stopped being a hunter at heart. His actions in [i]Exile on Main Street[/i], when he sussed out the Djinn faster than Samuel and co., showed us that. Sam was always 100% human. I’m assuming that by the Sam of [i]Point of No Return[/i] that you want back is the one where he trusted Dean to do what was right. However, there’s a difference between trusting someone to do what’s right and trusting them blindly. Sam should not, and did not, do the latter.
[quote]As far as I am concerned, S6 and S7 SPN did a tremendous disservice to both Sam and Dean’s characters. Both of them were plot devices. IMO, the end of S7 left both brothers in a position to take the characters in any direction Carver wants to go. Love interest is the last thing I wanted to hear, but it is a public casting call, so we know that plot or sub-plot will be in the season. That doesn’t mean that’s Sam’s season’s story at all, but it does mean that I have no interest in that plot or sub-plot and it is my choice to FF through it.[/quote] But again, what if the love interest plot or sub-plot furthers a supernatural storyline? And, yes, it’s your choice, and your right to fast forward through whatever you want but honest question here, how can you hope to form a rounded opinion of a character, an episode, or indeed the season, if there are chunks of the show that you will not watch? That would be like someone trying to write a match report but going away at half time.
[quote]As far as the ‘too spoilery to report on,” that’s what some of we Dean favoring fans hung onto all through S6 and S7 while we were waiting for his story. Both seasons we were told by TPTB that Dean would be examining why he hunted. We were told that Sam would be suffering from soullessness and his wall falling. Dean did not find a purpose for hunting in S6. He just lost more and moped more. When questioned about Dean’s story for S7 at Comic Con, JA said that Dean didn’t really have a story, while TPTB said Dean would be examining why he hunted. He didn’t have a story and he didn’t find a reason to hunt. Sam did have his soulless and hellpain story, and both came to a conclusion, even if the whole thing was poorly done.[/quote] Okay, my mind must be playing play tricks on me because, for me, in Season 7, Dean [i]was[/i] examining, and trying to find purpose in why he hunted. There is a strong possibility this will be furthered again while he is in Purgatory. There was never going to be a light bulb moment for Dean where he goes ‘Aha, this is why I hunt’. It needs to be a slower acceptance so that he will be more comfortable with it.
Also, not all storylines have to finalised within a certain timeframe, especially not one that deals with a person’s state of mind. I think if Dean went into Purgatory with an ‘I am hunter, hear me roar’ mentality then there would be no conflict while in Purgatory and no character development when he gets out of Purgatory. At least this way, Purgatory should serve a purpose for Dean, it won’t just be a bad day at the office for him.
If I may ask a question, after putting Dean in Purgatory in the first place, do you [i]genuinely[/i] think there’s a possibility that won’t do something with it? Apart from the concept itself being hugely intriguing, it’s a readymade story and it would serve [i]both[/i] characters in more than one way. Those with the say in the show would be absolute dumbasses to not spend time on it and given the change in personnel and timeslots etc in relation to the show, they won’t do anything stupid.
[quote]As far as Carena is concerned, I don’t know her and I don’t read her stuff, but the “too spoilery to report on,” doesn’t fly with me. Yes, I do think it is logical to expect not to be lied to (and I think it’s logicalto expect canon to be established and followed — not thrown out or changed at will to fit an individual episode’s writing.)[/quote]
Where have you been lied to thus far? There hasn’t been a spoiler about Dean yet so are you expecting them to lie to you when it does come out?
In relation to canon; canon is only canon until new information comes about. It was canon that there was no such thing as angels until season 4 came along and we saw angels. It was canon there was no such thing as unicorns when suddenly there are unicorns. Canon wasn’t thrown out or changed; new information came to light.
[quote]If Sam is doing his love story while Dean is in Purgatory, it is not connected to the supernatural. If Dean is out of Purgatory while Sam has his love story, it is not connected to the supernatural. It is a separate story to whatever action is going on. Perhaps it is a separate story that will make a fundamental change to Sam’s character, If so, the recaps and the finale will reveal that, so I will have lost nothing in FF’g thru those scenes.[/quote] Okay, Ginger, do you know something about the storyline that we don’t because you’re throwing out an awful lot of statements of fact there? How do you know that Sam’s love story (if that is what it is) [i]isn’t[/i] connected to the supernatural in some way? You’re not going to find out unless you watch……
[quote]As far as other hunters go, they do not have to fawn over Sam and Dean. In fact, tension could be inserted in the show if they did not fawn over them. I would, however, much prefer that the hunting community be expanded and the brothers take their rightful place as the elite hunters we are told they are, and I would much prefer recurring hunters than recurring love interests.[/quote] I don’t believe there is a hierarchy in relation to hunters. Any hunter who is alive must be an excellent hunter. Introducing an entire new world of hunters, or even a single hunter will invariably serve to take the focus [i]away[/i] from the Sam and Dean, and I thought that was the issue most people had with season 7. Yes, it would create a lot of tension but most of that tension will be along the lines of ‘Okay, will they kill Sam and Dean in their sleep tonight?’
[quote]My, what a confrontational post.[/quote] Ginger, my last post was not confrontational, it just didn’t agree with what you said. However, if it makes you feel good to throw out inflammatory remarks like that then knock yourself out.
This is not a reply..but i think Sheriff Jody Mills is a good recurring character and has been used correctly by showrunners..She belongs to law..now a character who is a medical professional will surely be helpful…
As far as the hierarchy goes i agree..
Also, Carver already used Amelia as a character in The Rapture he wrote. She was Jimmy’s wife. It’s too major a character to use the name again. Really dislike this spoiler.
I’m amazed at how different the reactions to this spoiler are from one site to another.
Zap2It is enthusiast with the idea, and here at WFB everyone is skeptic.
I’m thinking that people who read Carina’s stuff regularly are into shipping and romance, that’s what she likes – so maybe that’s part of it?
I was kinda surprosed by it too though. Maybe its just Dean that fans don’t want to have a love interest? I dunno.
When I’ve been at Zap2It, a lot of the readers are Destiel shippers, so I’m not surprised they don’t want him to have a love interest. Also, Lisa was kind of a flop for most of the fandom, so they may be ruling that out for Dean.
Frankly, considering how the fandom as a whole reacts to the introduction of “love interests”, I would think that the writers wouldn’t introduce a new female character with that description. If they want that, they can slip her in and see if there is actual chemistry without getting fans backs up.
I do worry about the fannish reaction if Sam falls in love. There could be real backlash about how selfish he is while Dean is suffering from going to Purgatory. I know some people don’t care about it, but I find the Sam/Dean wars to be awful and this could be a landmine of Sam doesn’t care enough about Dean. If a new character doesn’t become an impediment to the brotherly bond, the I’ll be happy, as long as the character is interesting.
I was just over at Zap2it reading the replies and while some of the initial ones were positive, it seems like a lot more aren’t now. THose are the comments I was expecting to read. That’s the SPN fandom I know and love. Hating on love interests since season 2 . . . . . . . 😉
And of course, the conversation got into Destiel territory too.
I’m honest, I don’t want love interests that can make the basic mechanic of the show change. I don’t want domesticated Winchesters, thanks. I want adventure, scary monsters and dysfunctional families. I have plenty of romantic shows to watch i I wanted.
Not against temporary (1-2 episodes) affairs, I’m not the jealous type 😛 but I want SPN to be about Sam, Dean, saving people, hunting things. And I’m a big fan of sam and don’t want his image further damaged if he’s dating girls instead of saving his brother.
Ginger explained how I feel perfectly a couple posts above.
[quote]I’m honest, I don’t want love interests that can make the basic mechanic of the show change. I don’t want domesticated Winchesters, thanks. I want adventure, scary monsters and dysfunctional families. I have plenty of romantic shows to watch i I wanted.
Not against temporary (1-2 episodes) affairs, I’m not the jealous type 😛 but I want SPN to be about Sam, Dean, saving people, hunting things. And I’m a big fan of sam and don’t want his image further damaged if he’s dating girls instead of saving his brother.[/quote]
I couldn’t agree more w/all this!
i understand shipping, but I don’t want it to be part of the actual show. Don’t know, it feels like some fans are pushing it down my throat and kind of ruins the fun for me.
So what do people want for Sam? because has it stands he doesnt have a hell story that’s been fixed .How do they give Sam a story without him actually interacting with people wether it be a ‘love interest’ or anything else.
Getting Dean out of Purgatory? how? how will he do that? and even if he does he still needs a story to his name because that wont be a season long situation. Personally I dont know what they can give him but at least this spoiler will give him maybe a emotional connection to someone and we might just might get to see Sam through fresh eyes .
But in the end it will come down to how they execute this and that they dont do it with all the writing skill of bulls in a china shop like they have done with Sam in the past that caused the damaged to him in the first place.
[quote]Personally I dont know what they can give him but at least this spoiler will give him maybe a emotional connection to someone and we might just might get to see Sam through fresh eyes .
[/quote]
I agree [b]Sharon[/b]. This spoiler could provide us with some great possibilities for some much needed and long overdue Sam POV and insight. It’s going to give the guy someone to talk to and if there is an emotional connection we’ll even, possibly, get him talking about all the thinky thoughts and feelings he keeps locked away deep inside.
Fingers crossed there won’t be any bulls in china shops… 😉
I want him to save his brother.
Love interests are okay, but that’s not what I want for SPN. I want action and drama and hunting! I don’t think a love storyline is gonna make any good to Sam’s character if it’s recurring.
Again, one episode or two,[i] after[/i] he saves Dean from Purgatory, would be good to me. But I don’t want the show to focus on lovestories, thanks, and I want Sam to have a chance to save Dean.
[quote]So what do people want for Sam?[/quote]
I want to see the Sam from Point of No Return. I want to see Dean as the born hunter he is supposed to be and Sam not far behind him, the younger brother standing shoulder-to-shoulder with his older brother hunting evil…action, not love stories or personal emotional journeys.
[quote]So what do people want for Sam?[/quote]
Sharon, I would have preferred to see Sam meet up w/some new, cool hunters like Tamara or Gordon minus the crazy.
Like Ginger, I really wanted to see the hunting world expanded some. Since Frank, Bobby, Rufus, Ellen, and Jo are dead, I think it would be good for Sam to meet some new hunters. I like Garth, but I wanted to see other hunters as well. Give them some more contacts in the hunting world.
I think Sam is desparately in need of friends, but longterm/recurring romance and Supernatural just don’t mix very well, IMO. Their lives really aren’t set up for romance in the traditional sense, esp. w/non-hunters. I think it would work better w/another hunter, but still have no burning desire to see either brother in a contived, forced romance. I’m not jealous or anything silly like that, but Supernatural and romance don’t make sense to me. The two things don’t go together. LOL! Honestly, the writing for Lisa/Dean was horrible, simply horrible.
Romance has never been an integral part of the show so I see no reason why it has to be now. In all the seasons, I’ve never wondered why the boys aren’t in relationships. It’s just not an important part of the show or their lives to me. Plus, I feel the writers can only effectively write one-shot romances. Anything more than that and it just does wonky!
Well I am sorry Ginger I do want him to have a emotional journey .You know why because he has never really had one and I believe he needs one .Alot has changed for Sam and I for one want to know how he feels about everything right now.
You may very well get this for Sam. I don’t know anything about Being Human, because I don’t watch it; but from what I have read, Carver routinely includes love interests in that show but, more importantly, he sets up plots and actually concludes them with the main character having some sort of character development along the way.
Here’s my 2 cents on some of the points being discussed –
First – I’m really not reading the casting call description very literally. I’m not familiar with SPN’s style of writing casting calls, but from what I’ve seen of descriptions from other shows, they are intended to identify a “type” rather than to give away any specific spoiler details. In this case, I’m reading “doctor” as someone who is educated, professional, and empathetic. Not necessarily a doctor. For all we know, she could be a new hunter who got into the field after her husband or child was killed by a demon, who previously had a professional job, and who Sam has taken under his wing.
Second – ideally, supporting characters should have a purpose for being introduced to further a storyline or character issue that the writers want to explore deeper. They’re not just introduced as a diversion. Examples of this are Bobby (introduced as a mentor, and later father figure to the boys, who helped Dean work through his John issues and acted as a companion for Dean when Dean wasn’t speaking to Sam), Cas (introduced to explore the parallels of absentee fathers between angels and Dean), Ellen (a connection to the hunter community and mentor), Lisa and Ben (an opportunity for Dean to explore fatherhood). Time will tell, but right now I’m willing to trust that Carver, Edlund, and the other writers have a plan for this character to be used to explore some aspect of Sam’s personal story that is overdue for exploration. My guess would be the question of whether Sam can see a future for himself now that the Lucifer arc is over. Sam at one point wanted more than anything else to live a normal life. He gave up on romantic relationships after Jess died, and over the course of his 5-season arc came to realize that he would never have a normal life, that his destiny was with Lucifer, and that his destiny would cost him his life. Things have changed since then, so I, for one, want to know whether Sam is thinking about the future again and whether he’s ready to open himself up to the possibility of being in a relationship again.
I understand that some people just want to see the hunting action, but it’s important to me that the characters are more than just two-dimensional action figures who we only see in the context of their job.
Third – I have no desire to see SPN turned into a shippy show like Vampire Diaries or Grey’s Anatomy, and I really doubt that Carver or Edlund does either. I also don’t see them doing anything that would sideline Sam for long for a romance storyline.
Fourth – I think assuming that Sam will be pulled away from the supernatural action because he has a recurring romantic interest is reading a lot into what little we think we know. Look at Dean’s season 6 storyline. It was similar to what are guessing will be some of of Sam’s story next season, in that two big issues were saving his brother, by getting Sam’s soul back, and dealing with the Lisa/Ben relationship. Did this make Dean a secondary character to the supernatural action? His first half of the season was spent having regular consultations with his angel best friend to learn more about about the nature of the soul and heaven’s civil war, and working for or fighting with the King of Hell. He got a personal lesson from Death (presumably the second-most powerful supernatural creature in the universe) on the natural order as he got to be Death for a day while hanging out with his reaper girlfriend. He took down the mother of all monsters. And he inserted himself right into the middle of a battle between demons and angels as his angel best friend opened a door to Purgatory and became God. If Sam has an equivalent supernatural storyline this season, in addition to his Amelia story and attempt to rescue Dean, I’ll be thrilled. I don’t see that as being secondary to the supernatural action at all.
I aknowledge that everything from this spoiler may be fake or misleading. Girl may not be a doctor. May not even be a girl or a love-interest at all. May end up being a cast for the new Meg, for all we know.
As much as I love Bobby, becauese I do, I don’t think he was introduced with that idea in mind. He was a plot device to help the brothers (I think the reason for introducing Bobby was that Missouri couldn’t be there). Cas was another plot device, because season 3 suffered the writers strike and Sam could never save Dean himself as it was planned.
I don’t know what you mean you a ‘shippy show’. Fans have never been too fond of the potential love interests that appeared in SPN. Except for those that seem to think Castiel is one love-interest for Dean…
[quote]
As much as I love Bobby, becauese I do, I don’t think he was introduced with that idea in mind. He was a plot device to help the brothers (I think the reason for introducing Bobby was that Missouri couldn’t be there). Cas was another plot device, because season 3 suffered the writers strike and Sam could never save Dean himself as it was planned.[/quote]
What I was trying to say was that side characters should be brought in to either further a character’s development or to move a plot forward, and that this Amelia character likely has a purpose. I don’t think what you’re saying contradicts that.
[quote]I don’t know what you mean you a ‘shippy show’. [/quote]
Sorry, I was playing around with the word shipper. I meant a show that’s main focus seems to be love triangles or romantic problems. My point was that I don’t think SPN’s writers would go so far as to try to turn SPN into a show like that.
We’ll agree to disagree on most of your points. I don’t want to rehash the past seven years, because they are done and gone and it’s pointless now, plus there’s a new showrunner and we don’t know how he will function.
I do agree, and have stated, that it’s too early to assume too much from this spoiler, other than a public casting call has been put out stating that the character would be a love interest for Sam. That description brings up a truckload of bad memories; so based on that, I am saying that I don’t like the idea of recurring love interests and the reasons why.
I don’t see that Dean learned anything from the Lisa love interest except that he wasn’t fit to sit at their table — meaning that he would always endanger them if he did so. So the lesson was just more loss for Dean. He didn’t choose hunting and Sam. He gave up his dream of normal and fatherhood, because he selflessly didn’t want to put those he loved in danger. That was the resolution to the love story that was set up to, as we were told, explore why he hunts and whether or not he could be a hunter and have a normal life (his lifelong dream) too. He chose to get Sam’s soul back, not because he chose Sam over Lisa/Ben, but because he was not willing to let Sam be a danger to humanity. Dean was willing to risk Sam’s sanity or life to have him be human.
There is every likelihood that under Carver’s direction, Sam may learn something better than that from his love interest experience. Since Singer said the brothers wouldn’t be apart for very long, I expect Sam to be hunting with Dean fairly quickly. Other than not liking the love interest news, I have no assumptions on the new season. I don’t know if Purgatory will play a big part or not. Carver is pretty free to take the brothers in whatever direction he wants, and Comic Con should give us some clues as to what that direction will be. Love interest would be the last place to take them on my list, given that both brothers were completely emotionally separated during S7 and acted liked they hunted with each other because they didn’t know anything else.
My wish is that we get back to horror/drama and not soap drama. For those who liked the soap drama of S6 and S7, the love interest thing should be good news. It’s not my cup of tea, and I do think it is completely secondary to the supernatural, as the soulless Sam, falling wall, and Lisa/Ben stories showed. S6 was about Cas’ fall from grace (a support character) and his releasing of the Levi as a result of his actions. I don’t know what S7 was about, other than some political and social commentary.
I’m sorry I comment too much lol I broke a leg and I’m pretty bored at home.
I read S-6 and Lisa/Ben totally different. I accept it was pretty boring to me so I didn’t pay all the attention I should, but what I saw was that Dean did chose Sam over Lisa and Ben.
[i]he chose Sam over Lisa/Ben, but because he was not willing to let Sam be a danger to humanity. Dean was willing to risk Sam’s sanity or life to have him be human. [/i]
Of course that would be partially true, but more important, I saw Dean wanting his brother, and his brother was still in the cage, being tortured, while his empty body walked around with no feelings. Soulless Sam was basically another monster, and Dean had said before he would prefecr Sam dead than non-human. I have my doubts he’s completely coherent with that idea, but we know how he feels about the whole humans/non-humans issue.
[quote]
I don’t see that Dean learned anything from the Lisa love interest except that he wasn’t fit to sit at their table — meaning that he would always endanger them if he did so. So the lesson was just more loss for Dean. He didn’t choose hunting and Sam. He gave up his dream of normal and fatherhood, because he selflessly didn’t want to put those he loved in danger. That was the resolution to the love story that was set up to, as we were told, explore why he hunts and whether or not he could be a hunter and have a normal life (his lifelong dream) too. He chose to get Sam’s soul back, not because he chose Sam over Lisa/Ben, but because he was not willing to let Sam be a danger to humanity. Dean was willing to risk Sam’s sanity or life to have him be human. [/quote]
My take on this is that Dean chose hunting and Sam over his apple pie life in Exile on Main Street. That was when he first broached the subject of leaving them, but Lisa talked him out of it. He actually did leave her to go out on the road hunting with his brother in the following episode, and that was well before he knew Sam was missing his soul – or even that there was something seriously wrong with Sam. If Dean had wanted to choose Lisa and Ben over hunting and Sam he would have at some point suggested staying retired from hunting, or retiring again if this was later in the season, and taking better steps to erase his trail so that monsters couldn’t find him.
The fact that Dean has been questioning why he hunts all this season is proof that he sees himself as having a choice. He chose hunting, and now he’s second guessing that choice.
As for what Dean gained from that experience, he had a chance to explore that life and see if he wanted to pursue a domesticated life. The fact that he chose hunting in the end doesn’t mean that the time was a waste. I think he had been haunted with a “what if” fantasy about life with Lisa and Ben since season 3, and this gave him a chance to put that fantasy to rest.
[quote]For those who liked the soap drama of S6 and S7, the love interest thing should be good news.[/quote]
There’s a lot I’m critical of about seasons 6 and 7 but I wouldn’t put “too many love stories” on the list. I didn’t like the soulless arc, the wall, and the Lisa/Dean storyline for different reasons. My reasons for not liking the soulless arc and the wall was that they were sloppily written and didn’t lead to any real character insight or growth, or to good plot development. I was interested in the Lisa/Dean storyline for the first few episodes but grew to hate it when Lisa and Ben kept popping up after Lisa and Dean had split up. I agree that it seemed to have no purpose other than to beat Dean down. However, other shows have done a great job with romantic storylines, so I’m not dismissing this spoiler before I know how it will play out.
Obviously we view things differently re: the Lisa/Ben love story, but I don’t want to rehash that story from two years ago, except to say that the fans were told Dean’s story would be examining if he could hunt and have normal. I think that didn’t happen, was a non-story, or was so poorly done that it was a non-story, and was the second time this show tried to do a love story that did not work (Jo being the other one).
No, the soap drama of S6 and S7 doesn’t mean ‘too many love stories’ in SPN, but SPN should never be about love stories, it shouldn’t be dark romantic fantasy, and it should not be about the human conditions of lost loves, mental problems, or how downtrodden life makes one to the point of being suicidal. These are human conditions explored in the world of soap opera drama.
Yes, there are other shows that do a good job with romance. In fact, I would say that most [i]every[/i] other show on TV has romance, and that is exactly why I watch this one show on TV. I have no interest in romance or dark romantic fantasy. Apparently, Vampire Diaries does that quite well, given their following, but I don’t watch VD.
[i][b]If[/b][/i] Sam has a love story, I will FF through those scenes. Hopefully, that will not be Sam’s season-long story. If Dean doesn’t have a real story this season; something more than being Sam’s caretaker, I may very well give up on the show before the season is out. If the possibility of improving over the past two years had not been presented, I would right now be seriously considering whether to watch S8 live, because I found S6 terrible and S7 a disaster.
That said, everything I have heard about Carver has been positive…good character development for all characters, good plotting throughout the season, and plots that are actually resolved. He’s experienced as a showrunner, and I’ve liked the episodes he has written for SPN. That’s a lot of positive to bring to SPN when it so desperately needs it, but it won’t change my mind about love story plots in SPN.
[quote](Jo being the other one).[/quote]
The character of Jo might originally have been conceived as a love interest but, for me, that idea certainly didn’t make it to the screen. Even the writers said that she was someone Dean would never be interested in. She was shown to have a crush on Dean but that’s pretty much par for the course with the guy. There was certainly nothing on Dean’s part that showed a romantic interest in Jo. She hunted with him in [i]No Exit[/i] and seemed to do nothing but tick him off. We saw her again in [i]Born Under A Bad Sign[/i], she had little contact with Dean in [i]Good God Y’All[/i] (had she [i]any[/i] contact with him in that episode?) and she seemed to be well and truly over that crush come [i]Abandon All Hope[/i] when she turned him down. He might have loved her but I saw that more as a friend and fellow hunter ala Ellen, and not as a love interest.
[quote]No, the soap drama of S6 and S7 doesn’t mean ‘too many love stories’ in SPN, but SPN should never be about love stories, it shouldn’t be dark romantic fantasy, and it should not be about the human conditions of lost loves, mental problems, or how downtrodden life makes one to the point of being suicidal. These are human conditions explored in the world of soap opera drama.[/quote] I appreciate that SPN should not be all about love stories. However, what love interest stories have we actually had on the show? We saw next to nothing of Sam and Jessica, ditto with John and Mary. We did see Dean and Lisa but that’s one in seven years; hardly an excess. We’ve had a lot of one night stands but very little in the way of actual stories.
However, while SPN should not be all about love stories, I feel that without human interest stories SPN just becomes another procedural show; easy to tune in and out of. In an interview back in January JP said “What’s made these characters likable is that they are human. Sam had his issues with demon blood and whatnot, but the story is about two human beings, not about an angel and a demon chick. They come and go, but the audience can’t relate unless it’s about human condition and human emotions and the way nature and nurture affect you.†I’d definitely agree with him on that because for me, without getting the human interest story, whether that is via love stories or whatever, SPN just becomes McGyver with monsters.
Tim — I’m curious – have you been a fan of SPN since the beginning, or did you join at some point after S2 and catch up on the episodes? I can see in retrospect that Jo might not seem like a love interest because of the way the character did evolve. But Jo absolutely WAS intended to be a love interest for Dean. Fortunately, however, the producers (Singer talked about this at one point) realized that it wasn’t working.
Part of the problem was how very young Jo played initially. We had Dean well established as a mid-twenties man and Jo appeared to be a bratty highschool girl — yes, I know the character was supposed to be older than that, but she didn’t look or act it. (Alona Tal came to SPN from a recurring role on CW cult drama Veronica Mars where she played a young teen)
I often thought it would have worked out better if they had introduced Jo as a potential love interest for Sam – they are much closer in age, both dealing with losses etc etc. — I’m glad they didn’t – but then I disliked the character.
Melanie, the first (bit of an) episode I saw was The Benders but it was on a rerun. I youtubed a few random clips and then bought the first five series. I didn’t watch them in real time but I did watch them chronologically (ie I didn’t watch a season 5 episode followed by a season 2 episode. I started at 1.01 and watched through) so I wasn’t aware that Jo and Dean didn’t work out while I was watching. (I’m really not sure what category of viewer that makes me!)
I know that Jo was intended as a love interest (did I not say that above?) but from day one I never saw anything love interesty between her and Dean. She had the crush and probably admired his hunting abilities and irreverent attitude etc but from his point of view, I saw nada.
That being said, I’m one of those who did see love between Dean and Lisa so what do I know!
(Apologies for the terrible spelling and spacing. Stupid fat fingers on stupid small phone.)
(this is me from a different computer)
Jensen made a very smart choice in having Dean not project interest in Jo.
I think the original intent was that (cliche) bickering with ‘kickass’ girl would turn to grudging respect, then turn to attraction, which the writers ‘Course adjusted’ as Kripke called it, with the ‘little sister’ route.
They tried the same trope again with Bela and Dean in S3 which fell very flat and ended with her getting killed off, thank GOD. (They even kind of tried to switch her over to Sam with that awful dream. )
What you miss with not watching in ‘real time’ is the fan barometer on these characters. There was very, very vocal dislike expressed of the all the recurring ‘love interests’ Jo, Bela, Ruby & Lisa (and recently Castiel too LOL). As Jensen said at a convention “We tried that (adding recurring female characters) and it made you all mad.”
Of course, as always, not everyone disliked them – Jo in particular is much more liked now that she’s dead than she ever was in ‘real time.’
Actually I saw a change starting around BUABS. By that time Jo had matured and she acknowledged that Dean was not interested in her in a romantic way. My problem was with her immaturity and the fact that Kripke did announce that she was a love interest, going so far as showing Dean singing along to “I Can’t Fight This Feeling Anymore” after Jo said she liked it. Jo might well have worked if she had been introduced as a mature woman who was already hunting and was simply a recurring character with no announced purpose except expanding the hunting world.
I have seen fandom react well to mature women in Supernatural. Ellen, Pamela and Sheriff Jodie have all been liked and people have expressed wanting to see them again. Ellen was written out at the behest of Dawn Ostroff and the CW who said she was too old to be sexy, notwithstanding the fact that she was liked by fans.
I’m not saying a recurring love interest couldn’t work on Supernatural. Good writing can sell stories that don’t initially sound good, bad writing can tank stories that sound good on paper. I do think that if they want a recurring love interest, TPTB would be better served to say that Sam helps a doctor who may become a recurring character and then let the story develop without fan expectations and objections squewing the perception of the character. Let us get to know her first, then have the relationship grow organically.
Above all, I don’t want this “romance” to start with Dean in Purgatory. Dean may well be out of Purgatory by episode three, but if Heartache (we now have a potential name) is a flashback set while Dean is still in Purgatory, then it reflects badly on Sam in the eyes of many fans.
[quote]I’m not saying a recurring love interest couldn’t work on Supernatural. Good writing can sell stories that don’t initially sound good, bad writing can tank stories that sound good on paper.[/quote]
Spot on. A recurring love interest is possible but it depends how cleverly it meshes into the SPN theme.
I didn’t know that DO wanted Ellen written out. Interesting.
Yes, there absolutely was a change in BUABS – the ‘course correction.’ But it was too little too late.
Good writing or no, I’m really doubtful that a love interest can work on SPN without changing the overall dynamic of the show.
Good writing CAN introduce and utilize interesting recurring characters that don’t change the dynamic of the show. Friends, villians, allies, antagonists, mentors, mother figures, father figures, Mr Research or Mrs Exposition, victims, — there are many roles that secondary characters can play over several to many episodes that fit in with the nomadic Winchesters ‘hunting things, saving people.’ ‘Love interest’ is really far down the list – for me anyway.
percysowner, if Sam is attracted to someone while trying to free Dean from Purgatory, does this really put him in a bad light? Sometimes while working with someone one could fall for them. In fact I would say that when one is depressed, upset, or emotionally vulnerable, that is the time when someone can get into one’s heart more easily. So my take on this is that if Sam does fall for someone while Dean is in purgatory, it would not make him any less in my eyes. What is a given is that Sam would be unhappy and sad, and would be trying very hard to get Dean out. So if he leans on someone during this time, that would not be a flaw in his character. It would be Sam being human. I really doubt that they will show candlelit dinners.
I’ve been thinking something similar. I can understand how Lazarus Rising must have turned a lot of people off (Ruby walking around in her underware and Sam and Ruby so easily lying to Dean), but I doubt they would write something similar to that again.
To me it all depends how it is handled. This could be a very sweet, bonding-over-grief episode that doesn’t go much further at this point. Or even if it does go further, if it’s clear that Sam’s very upset about Dean, hasn’t forgotten him, and is doing every thing he can to find him, to me that would be OK. Of course there will be people who will cast blame no matter how it is handled.
And let’s not forget that Dean moved on with Lisa when he thought Sam was still in Hell. Yes, it was at Sam’s urging, but we got a montage in Mannequin of happy, carefree moments between Lisa and Dean from that time period.
[quote]Of course there will be people who will cast blame no matter how it is handled.[/quote]
I agree with that.
In any case even if Sam is shown as falling in love while Dean is in Purgatory there is no doubt in my mind that he will be grieving for Dean. I think that’s a given.
Even when he was fooling around with Ruby, she was his only emotional support in time of need. He had no one else, not even Bobby. He had tried everything he could trying to save Dean, going so far as to meeting the crossroads demon. Even later he tried to get demons to make a deal, but nothing worked. After that he just wanted revenge against Lilith. True, he was weak, but that is because he gave in to a demon. Ironically, if Ruby was just an ordinary girl, he would probably never have got close to her. He became friendly with Ruby because she promised him revenge. I think the story was handled quite well at that time.
It is possible that this new love interest could be something like that. Sam probably needs her help in some way and in the process they become close.
And yeah Dean did move on with Lisa. He wasn’t really happy, but he was trying.
[quote]Time will tell, but right now I’m willing to trust that Carver, Edlund, and the other writers have a plan for this character to be used to explore some aspect of Sam’s personal story that is overdue for exploration. My guess would be the question of whether Sam can see a future for himself now that the Lucifer arc is over.
[/quote]
This would be my guess too. Sam wanted normal but all that happened to him over the years had him giving up on that dream, believing that it wasn’t for him. Perhaps at some point next season Sam might start to think about his future and the possibility of a normal life and so this new character will be used to explore this aspect of Sam’s story.
[quote]I’m honest, I don’t want love interests that can make the basic mechanic of the show change. I don’t want domesticated Winchesters, thanks. I want adventure, scary monsters and dysfunctional families. I have plenty of romantic shows to watch i I wanted.
Not against temporary (1-2 episodes) affairs, I’m not the jealous type 😛 but I want SPN to be about Sam, Dean, saving people, hunting things. And I’m a big fan of sam and don’t want his image further damaged if he’s dating girls instead of saving his brother.
Ginger explained how I feel perfectly a couple posts above.[/quote]
That’s what I want, too. Hunting, saving people, the family business. I just don’t see a love inteest as being a part of the SPN world.
I am a little confused as to why people think that love interests on SPN mean that the show will become a romantic show or a soap opera. The creators will never change the genre of the show. Domesticated Winchesters? Seriously?
[quote]I am a little confused as to why people think that love interests on SPN mean that the show will become a romantic show or a soap opera. The creators will never change the genre of the show. Domesticated Winchesters? Seriously?[/quote]
Ok. Then how do you think it will fit into the SPN world? I can’t think of a way that will not take away from the hunting story.
Jo, I can’t answer that. That is the challenge for the writers. They have to fit in a love interest without changing the genre and I am sure they will find a way. Perhaps they will kill off the character pretty soon. Perhaps it will be a short-lived love. Perhaps the love will not be reciprocated equally. Perhaps the lover herself will be treacherous. Perhaps the love will be used as a motivation for something, used as a plot point. I don’t know. There are scores of ways that a love interest can be brought into the story without domesticating the Winchesters. If they do domesticate the Winchesters, it can only work if the show ends perhaps in the tenth season, and then it will be off-screen. However I am not sure if fans will want SPN to end this way!
Even when Dean was “domesticated” for a year, it was fast forwarded and mostly shown in flash-backs.
So what I am trying to say is that a love interest need not take away from the hunting story. It can add to it.
But all those scenearios are not for lonf-term relationships, just the kind of affairs we’ve seen they guys having all the time (excluding Jess pre-show and Lisa). A short thing that, hopefully, is meaningful to the plot, sounds great, but that’s not what I was talking about.
The point is that, an on-screen lasting, formal relationship would mean the end of SPN, or the end of SPN as we know it. They’re outlaws, cowboys, hunters, nomads. Even Jensen said he disliked the Lisa arc because domesticated Dean was not Dean.
I don’t want the boys and 2 girls riding the Impala, and I’d be sad to see them parking Baby and just having a normal life. I can’t see any other option for a serious relationship with someone as Sam or Dean, thus I’d rather see them accepting their lives and being happy with themselves.
And honestly, I don’t needanother arc of ‘how the hunter life brings danger to the girl one of the boys likes’. We’ve learnt that lesson already seasons ago.
But that’s my opinion, I understand some fans like romance, and that’s fine, but if you ask me, I prefer other subjects.
Where are you reading that this spoiler is about an “on-screen lasting, formal relationship?” I don’t think the domesticated, suburban lifestyle is possible for either of them right now if the show is to continue, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t care about people who aren’t family or just friends.
And just throwing this out there, but maybe it’s time for them to establish a permanent base somewhere the way Bobby had a house and a hometown. They can still travel to go on cases but have somewhere to go between cases. Personally I don’t think the MOTW cases they hit while on the road are the most interesting stories on SPN anymore – the show has just changed too much since season 1 to go back.
I never said that it was going to be on-screen or even long-lasting. What I said is that being so, I can’t see it fitting in the dynamics of the series.
‘If’ is the key word.
A recurring character can be one that appears in 5 episodes, and that would be more than fine with me. But I was replying to the question of why a long term relationship would mean the domestication of the brother/s, not saying that Amelia is going to that long term relationship, because I certainly have no clue.
I have problems seeing both either the MOTW formula and the huge myth arc formula working anymore. Thanks heaven I don’t have to write the scripts for S8
Sure, I like romance, but I am not a fan of romantic shows. I like romance as much as it can fit into a horror/sci-fi/fantasy series, which is what SPN is. And as cd28 said as of now we don’t know how long that love interest is going to last. If it comes to speculation, or wanting a show to go a certain way, well, it will be sweet for Sam or Dean to fall in love with someone who doesn’t die or turn evil or isn’t a plot point, but one thing is for sure – the creators are not going to domesticate the Winchesters as long as the show is running.
As I replied to cd28, I was just explaining why I think there’s no room for long term love stories, unless it’s the ending of the SPN, never said I think Amelia is going to be like that.
Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear. It’s just an opinion, nothing more.
[quote]But all those scenearios are not for lonf-term relationships, just the kind of affairs we’ve seen they guys having all the time (excluding Jess pre-show and Lisa). A short thing that, hopefully, is meaningful to the plot, sounds great, but that’s not what I was talking about.
The point is that, an on-screen lasting, formal relationship would mean the end of SPN, or the end of SPN as we know it. They’re outlaws, cowboys, hunters, nomads. Even Jensen said he disliked the Lisa arc because domesticated Dean was not Dean.
I don’t want the boys and 2 girls riding the Impala, and I’d be sad to see them parking Baby and just having a normal life. I can’t see any other option for a serious relationship with someone as Sam or Dean, thus I’d rather see them accepting their lives and being happy with themselves.
And honestly, I don’t needanother arc of ‘how the hunter life brings danger to the girl one of the boys likes’. We’ve learnt that lesson already seasons ago.
But that’s my opinion, I understand some fans like romance, and that’s fine, but if you ask me, I prefer other subjects.[/quote]
Wonderful, wonderful post! You said it all! I couldn’t agree more w/you!
I dont care about romance one way or the other I mean let’s face it these are hot bloodied guys not monks.I doubt we will see girls riding around in the Impala this was the same concern in season 3 with Ruby and Bela and it didnt happen. However we do see a Angel riding in the back sit /front sit so I would have no issues with a Sam ‘character’ given the same .
The point here is that we will get no insight into Sam from either hunting or Dean at this point so we need a character that fulfills that role even if it might be briefly or long term .Sam’s story has to go somewhere now his destiny sl has disappeared the only thing left is a human story .
Amelia might not be everybody’s cup of tea she indeed might turn out to be a disaster however she could be the best thing to happen for Sam in a long time all I know is Sam’s hell has been fixed so they have to take Sam in some sort of direction even if it isnt everybodys idea of what should be done.
Not to sound cynical but couldn’t they choose other name?
I mean Amy, Emma, Amelia, Emanuel… They are all similar.
Amy and Emma is very similar. One for Sam’s girl, the other for Dean’s girl. And Emanuel sounds like the masculine version of Emma.
Why can’t they have a name like, … i don’t know Wanda? Erica? Susan? for a significant role like that.
Lisa is old char from S3. Madison and Jessica even Ruby are from past Seasons.
They’re already did Sam’s love interest arch in episode 3 last season. Can’t they do it differently this time? I know Jensen is directing and he can’t be on screen most of the time but can’t they make something like … I don’t know, the convergence of Demons maybe? or Hippie virus outbreak in Heaven? I don’t know.. they’re the creative ones.