Supernatural and Minorities
Supernatural and Minorities, by Elle2
This is a sequel to my Relax, It’s Only Supernatural article. I hadn’t intended to write a sequel but a comment came up that sparked my interest and hey, with Hellatus just around the corner [ducks – I’m only trying to prepare people for the separation] it’s good for me to warm up the writing muscles. I’ve read this before, Supernatural is too hard on minorities and as many have stated, in sum and substance, if you’re not a white male, you’re a bad guy’. I never gave it much thought but I decided to take a peek and see if the criticism holds water. I find that it doesn’t.
In this article I’ll merely state stats from the show and add my thoughts and let each reader who cares to voice his or her opinion. Again, this is merely for the sake of discussion and as I have long believed, opinions are neither right nor wrong; they simply are. Voice your opinion with full knowledge that as long as you do not vent in an aggressive, personal attack kinda way; you’ll get my attention and my respect. We may not agree but that’s not the point of the exercise; the point is to discuss…and pass the time until this week’s episode: Two Minutes to Midnight.
[Ahem]
Is Supernatural too hard on minorities?
We have demons and angels and witches and vampires and shapeshifters and ghosts and they come in black and white and male and female, not too often do we come across Asian or Indian or Chinese but that’s not strange given this is a show that bills itself as crossing middle America. For the most part Supernatural avoids large cities where a great mixture of cultures is more likely. And while I know that all cultures live in all portions of America the greater demographic mix is in large cities; places Supernatural rarely frequents.
I’ve read that women are portrayed as weak or evil and that white men are fine but that blacks are particularly heavy hit with the bad character label. I’m going to look at the human and non-human character aspect as well. Where to begin…oh, heck, let’s start with demons.
Azazel, Alastair, Crowley, Meg, Ruby, Lilith these are the heavy hitter demons in Supernatural. What do they all have in common? They’re all white. In the Supernatural demon realm you’re white and evenly split between male and female. Now I know that Crowley is currently playing on Team Free Will but as Ruby stated in No Rest For The Wicked… “Hello, demon; manipulative is kinda in the job description.†I don’t trust him.
Along the demon trail we’ve met crossroad demons who are black, white, male and female, so the crossroad demon demographic is fairly heavily leaning to white. In fact, the only time we met a black, female crossroads demon was in Crossroad Blues; otherwise, they’re white and leaning heavily to female.
Where to go next, why not to the angels: Castiel, Uriel, Anna, Zachariah, Gabriel, Rafael, Joshua, Michael and Lucifer. I’ll hold my count at nine angels that have figured heavily in the storyline. Of them only one is female and she was at best an inconsistently written character who was likeable, then whiney then mysterious and somewhat helpful; her backstory was that she was higher on the wingarchy than Castiel and Uriel so she had some leadership capacity, in the end she was reduced to evil, me thinks mostly to tie up the loose end. The character was conceived well but ultimately advanced badly. Still, she’s a white woman.
Castiel is white and he’s a good guy. Zachariah was white and most definitely a bad guy. Uriel was black and most definitely a bad guy. Gabriel was more fun than anything but in the end came down on the side of good. Rafael was a one-off and didn’t appear to be a good guy and likely won’t be either. Joshua was black and definitely one on the side of Team Free Will. Michael and Lucifer are ‘destined’ to fight to the death of one of them and they’re both white. So, three black angels one distinctly evil, one likely to be evil but perhaps there’s hope…we may never know and one definitely in the good category. Then we have four white angels all coming down on the side of bad, Zachariah, Lucifer, Michael and Anna…don’t care that Michael is to kill the devil; he’s mean!!! So who are we left with on the good side, Castiel and Joshua. If you’re keeping track, one black and one white.
Okay. Angels and demons dispatched; it’s time to focus on some humans.
Season one featured a woman in white (a white woman by the way) who killed her children and then seeks out and kills unfaithful men. Hmm, by the looks of not only Constance herself but the faces on John Winchester’s hotel room all the folks here are white.
Wendigo introduced a white female character who was strong on courage, long on family loyalty and able to go toe to toe with Dean and maintain her integrity.
Dead in the Water featured a town of white boys who killed and covered up the murder of another white boy. And a strong woman, Andrea, who while immersed in grief over the loss of her husband and father and witness to decidedly a supernatural event manages to hang onto her role as mother and keep a positive outlook in the end; definitely a strong woman.
How about Phantom Traveler with Amanda the cabin attendant. She bravely faces her fear and goes back to work after surviving a plane crash and even while witnessing demonic possession manages to help the boys do their work. Thus far none of these women are weak.
Bloody Mary gave us a white father and white girls who either purposefully killed or through chance, negligence and lack of integrity killed someone and hid their culpability.
Bugs showed an ancient Indian burial ground desecrated by white men.
Home introduced us to Missouri a strong, black woman who is capable as a mentor to Sam and Dean and a maternal figure. [and yes, she’s still alive, if we want to keep her that way we may not wish her to return; even though I adore her]
Scarecrow showed a town of white folk sacrificing innocents to a pagan god for good crops.
Route 666 showed a group of white men killing and covering up the death of a black man. Also gave us a strong mixed race woman, Cassie, who stole Dean’s heart in the past and similarly went toe to toe with him and came out the winner. Dean, and Kripke and Co., clearly are not put off by the idea of interracial relationships.
The Benders shows us a white family who murders people for sport and likely eats the remains…but that’s more implied than direct.
Nightmare showed us a white father and a white uncle abusing their son, Max and Max thus giving in to his ‘skills’ and becoming a killer. Thus we have white abusers and white victim turned killer.
Dead Man’s Blood introduced to a lair of vampires all of whom are white people. While Gordon is a black man who turns into a vampire it is the monster that does him in, not the fact that he’s white. However, Gordon is an evil hunter from the get go and lest we be left with the idea that white hunters are totally on the up and up we meet hunters in Free to be You and Me and Dark Side of the Moon who clearly have crossed a line as they kill either in cold blood or take an innocent hostage and use her as a pawn.
No Exit gives us a white serial killer and Crossroad Blues shows male and female, white and black equally making deals with the devil.
Playthings shows a white girl turning evil and killing while a black nanny was the one who assisted in keeping the evil at bay for so many years.
Henrickson is a black agent who is loyal to the law and while he is a ‘bad guy’ in the sense that he hunts the Winchesters it is solely because he does not know the whole story. Upon learning the entire story Henrickson is an ally. Yes he dies but he was never really a bad guy.
House of the Holy gives us a white priest killed and then misguided in the afterlife so he sets out killing people. Similar treatment happens in Faith when a white woman plays with dark powers and traps a reaper so she can choose who lives and who dies based on her personal moral code.
All Hell Breaks Loose I and II give us a white girl, white boys and a black boy all forced to play a game of survival. It’s the white girl who coldly and calculatedly kills time and time again and from her own acknowledgement has been doing such for months. Jake is a black man who kills Sam and then does Azazel’s bidding but first he’s portrayed as a honorable soldier and a man loyal to his family thus giving reason for his actions, save his family. Hmm, we’ve seen the Winchesters do that time and time again and they know a lot more about who and what demons are than Jake ever did.
We’re introduced to a strong black husband and wife team in Magnificent 7 who love each other and are devoted to each other. Yes, the husband dies but the wife lives and as far as we know she’s out hunting.
Bela, a character so many love to hate, is a white woman who had abusive parents whom she killed and spent the rest of her life conning people and lying and stealing people’s money.
We meet a drunken, druggie, porn addicted white santa in A Very Supernatural Christmas…certainly not a picture for the kiddies.
Witches are suburban white women greedy for money or prestige.
A white doctor creates a way for people to dream and a white man, whose father beat him as a child, takes revenge on the doctor and anyone else he deems worthy of his wrath.
Monster Movie introduces us to a strong white woman who knows who she is, goes into a relationship, one night that is, with Dean with her eyes wide open and fully cognizant of the fact that this is a night of sex and not much more. In the end she is intelligent, witty, brave and logical and she saves the boys’ bacon…not to mention her own.
Yellow Fever introduces us to a white man who killed the town simpleton, who was harmless and sweet, over misplaced jealousy.
Family Remains showed a father who abused his daughter, she gave birth to twins, and he trapped them forever in the house so that they were portrayed as animals.
Criss Angel introduced us to a group of white magicians, one of whom dabbled in black magic so as to have immortality.
We’ve seen characters lie, betray, act promiscuously, steal, break the laws, dabble in black magic, make deals with demons and they’ve all been male and they’ve all been white – in the above descriptions I was only thinking of Sam and Dean Winchester.
I don’t even need to go back up and start counting…the tally is that if you’re white and male, chances are good that you’re a bad guy. If you’re white and female, chances are good that you either killed your children, your spouse or stood by and let others do it.
However, there are many white female characters that are strong, and yes dead; Mary, Ellen, Jessica, Jo. There is also Deputy Hudak from The Benders, Detective Ballard from The Usual Suspects, PD Mara Daniels from Folsom Prison Blues and Sheriff Mills from Dead Men Don’t Where Plaid who are strong professionals able to withstand grief, beatings, betrayal and intimidation to do their job and yes, help the Winchesters.
There are also white male characters that are good, Bobby comes to mind, Pastor Jim is another. The men in 99 Problems from the militia were white and doing what they believed to be heaven’s work…mislead they might have been.
There are black characters that were bad guys, Gordon, Uriel but there’s also Henrickson and Rufus to balance that side. We also have Joshua to love and even George Darrow from Crossroad Blues who foolishly made a deal with a demon but in the end came full circle and accepted his fate with dignity.
And lest we forget there are the four horsemen, all evil and all…you guessed it white.
So again, all this talk about minorities getting the short shrift is not the full picture. People remember that Gordon was bad and Uriel was bad and now Kali was pictured as loose and damsel in distressy and think that Supernatural is mean to minorities. I say run the numbers, folks, white women kill their kids, make deals with demons, kill their boyfriends and/or spouses or dabble in witchcraft to win prizes at local raffles. White men abuse their children, kill their spouses, hunt and kill the Winchesters and or threaten innocents, kill black men, defile Indian burial grounds, kill as children and spend the rest of their lives hiding the crime, kill for good crops, kill for sport and the list goes on and on and on.
For those who are convinced Supernatural is mean to minorities I have a simple prescription 104 episodes of Supernatural during Hellatus and that should clear up the myth that Supernatural is mean to minorities. If anything, white men should be very, very afraid, good or bad, they’ve got reason to fear the reaper.
Thanks for reading.
This was very interesting; statistics always make things clearer. I personally don’t feel offended by any of this, I don’t think they do it on purpose. There really is a great variety of people in the show, most just happen to be white and male.
What I have noticed is that the writers of Supernatural always seem to skirt around homosexuality (besides Sam/Dean, which really doesn’t count since that’s the fans–in fact, the one time they brought it up they focused on the incest being gross and didn’t mention the homosexuality). I wonder if that’s on purpose, if they’re just not willing to get into that, or if they just never got to a story where it would be nessecary. Or am I missing it?
The actress for Constance Welch is a woman of color. Ditto the actress for the crossroads demon in Bedtime Stories and the actress for Pamela Barnes. (Shahi’s part Iranian, Dinwiddie’s part Syrian, and I forget what McCoy is but I think it’s part Pacific Islander.) I think all three characters are supposed to be read as white, though.
JSL: They haven’t quite come out and said it, but there’s a metric ton of evidence suggesting Dean is bisexual preferring females over males and with lots of issues regarding the contemporary American conception of masculinity, which has as a corollary issues with homosexuality, and there’s considerable evidence suggesting Sam is bisexual without Dean’s issues but with a stronger preference for females than Dean has. Homosexuality does come up in Faith (Sue-Ann LeGrange thinks it’s immoral), in AHBL (Lily killed her girlfriend), in Ghostfacers (Corbett gets killed because he’s willing to follow the guy he’s crushing on into danger), in Real Ghostbusters (the gay couple are the heroes of the day), and in Abandon All Hope, Devil You Know, and Two Minutes to Midnight, where Crowley makes it abundantly obvious that he’s gay. It has storyline relevance only in Devil You Know and Two Minutes to Midnight, in both cases because Crowley’s using it to play people with, which ranks it about even with the sexual attractiveness of the human female as seen in Nicki Aycox as Meg.
This is a wonderful article. I come from a family made up of several ethnic groups and have never found a hint of racism of any type in Supernatural. I actually see a great diversity in the show. Just like in real life, people of any color and either gender can be good, bad and somewhere in between. I think it’s much more respectful to show that type variety and Supernatural does a great job of it.
I am a “minority”:roll:: at least in the United States. I am also very passionate about discrimination and civil rights. Nothing disgusts me more than prejudice and hate based on what someone looks like. My friends know me as the person who always chides them on their racist jokes and attitudes even if they mean no harm because that is just who i am. People get pissed when i point out to them that they’re being offending but i have to do what i have to do unless it means i approve.
But i will be the first to say Supernatural isn’t racist or treating “minorities” badly. Bad guys and good guys come in all shapes and sizes. That is the real world. So i appreciate it when the show reflects that. You can’t win this game anyways. People cried foul when the show had Gordon as a bad guy who got killed by Sam and said it was minorities being made to be evil. Then they cried foul again when Joshua was made a good guy because he was a wise good guru because apparently that is a stereotype too. It makes me wonder, then what roles are black people allowed to play if not bad guys or good guys? And there lies the nagging question. Is the problem the fact that we reduce characters and their roles to the color of their skin instead of seeing them as a representation of the human race? Maybe it’s because we keep separating and categorizing people into majority and minority that is the problem. I loved Henrickson. The actor did a fantastic job. Malik said the role had called for an older guy who was going to be white but they liked him and cast him. That is one of the many examples that show us that most times, the people in the roles we see are determined by which actor auditions and does a good job not racial discrimination.
As for the women problem, since when did we become the “minority?” I thought there was more of us on this planet than there are men? I thought “minority referred to the population being small compared to the other population in that particular region. Even in the United States, women do not fall into the category of “minority” from my perspective. Unless of course it refers to the population of people who get treated as second class citizens then i might concede that point.
I agree with ErikaLWH. Male or female, black or white, nice, nasty or indifferent, it’s a right old hodge-podge and thats just how it should be. Not too sure where the metric ton of evidence for the boy’s bisexuality came from though, or Crowley’s for that matter … You do know fag means cigarette in English english, right?
Elle2, thank you for sparking this discussion and taking on a few points that seem to cause some turmoil within the fandom – or so it seems.
Minorities on Supernatural – treated badly? Intuitive reaction: no!
I have very fine antennas for that subject, because I grew up belonging to a minority. My parents immigrated to Germany in the sixties and were foreigners. When I went to school, primarily in the eighties, Germany was not yet as tolerant and open as it is now in regard to aliens. Proceeding to the higher and more difficult classes, I remained the only one who had no German background and the problem was, I was a very good student which caused a lot of negative reactions from many Germans – how could a foreigner speak the language better than their own?!
Experiencing my share of maltreatment because of who my parents were, I learned what it means to feel ‘different’, and ever since I have been very sensitive about being treated differently because of my heritage or about seeing others being treated in a derogatory manner. Civil rights, anyone? To quote Faulkner: ‘To live anywhere in the world today and be against equality because of race or colour is like living in Alaska and being against snow’. Eventually I learned to look at myself not as German or whatever else, but as ‘European’, even cosmopolitan, with several ‘races’ coming together in my bloodline that seems appropriate.
With Supernatural – being a white female – I have never felt offended in any way. I don’t like women being depicted in movies or tv shows as generally weak or the classical victim, and here they have not been. We have a mixture of strong women and victims, here, just as we find in real life. I know very strong women and I know whiny ones, women of good character and those I would not trust an inch.
Within this show I have not noticed any discrimination against women or ethnic groups of whatever kind. We have a cocktail of good people and baddies, that’s how the world runs.
I don’t see any of the ‘bisexual’ or Crowley being gay undertones that EllieMurasaki believes to be there – to my mind, demons, in general, are omnisexual as they are – when not in a human body they possess – some sort of smoke, so when Crowley states that he told other demons he and Brady were lovers, that does not indicate him being gay. It does not prove the opposite, either, though.
Where she takes the bisexuality of Sam or Dean from I have no idea.
Elle2, I’m with you here – the criticism does not hold any water. Not with this show. Thank you! Love Jas
Great comments all.
I didn’t know the three actresses mentioned were of mixed origin (hope that’s acceptable to write it that way) and I think Anene really hit the point I thought about after the article was already done is that often times the casting calls say submit all ethnicities (unless it’s a canon character such as any of the Winchesters) and so I do believe it’s the choice ultimately of the actor/actress and what they bring to the part.
I don’t know of any evidence to suggest that Sam and Dean are bisexual. This is a show clearly based in the rugged mindset of two brothers traveling the roads and the writers have always indicated that they are virile young men and that woman will cross their paths but their lifestyle is not the type that allows for permanent relationships with woman so that’s always stated to calm the fandom over if Ruby or Anna are going to be permanent partners (or Bela).
Further, the ‘skirting’ of the homosexual aspect isn’t really skirted at all since this is a show about two brothers and their journey and neither of them is anything other than heterosexual, so to explore their homosexuality isn’t a factor.
Their inclusion of elements of homosexuality are neither flattering or non-flattering as sometimes they are victims, sometimes they are heroes and the only time the joke is made of it is when it’s attributed to the brothers and that appears to be solely in response to the fandoms desire for there to be ‘something there.’
As for women and being a minority? Well, as a woman I’ve never felt in the minority (although I have held jobs where I’m in a male-dominated field but still my efforts paved the way for me.) Women are classified as a minority by the PC (politically correct) types in the world and thus the title fits but in numbers…nope, you’re right regarding the demographics but it’s the mindset that renders them thus.
Suze, I do know that fag means cigarette and thus Crowley was inviting the boys for a cigarette and a chat on the road. Like so many things that may or may not have been taken incorrectly (as is many of the meta references to those outside the US)
I think the stats point out the reality and just like religion, don’t take anything too seriously. This isn’t a show looking to make a point regarding ethnicities or religions, it’s telling a story of two brothers, fighting evil, saving people.
Elle2, that bit was sort of aimed at EllieMurasaki, not you … 😉 Sean once caused massive confusion by telling some friends of a friend in a bar in El Paso that he was just slipping out to the truck for his fags … 😆
Elle2,
Great article! When you put a whole pile of evidence out like that the picture is much clearer than pointing to one or two instances of certain ethnicities as bad or good. You could evenfurther break down the people who have been on Supernatural beyond black and white, there has been a truckload of other ethnicities/origins. They aren’t out and out identified in all cases, but certainly in some (hello, accents – skin colour isn’t the only identifying marker of another origin – bet if you put a Canadian and American side by side you could tell who was who if they did speak).
I think we live in an overly sensitive world and I feel like nearly everything is construed as discriminating someone. It’s ridiculous to me. I’m not downplaying that discrimination happens or that it isn’t serious when it does, but is it necessary to comb through everything for a crumb of ambiguousness that can be spun in a particular way as to be seen as *maybe* discriminatory?
As a woman, as I’ve already stated before, I have never felt offence toward Supernatural. I don’t believe they are sexist or racist. It’s equal opportunity kill-or-be-killed storytelling.
EllieMurasaki – I’m not clear on what evidence suggests Dean is bisexual at all. After 100 episodes, his preference for women seems fairly clear.
I’m with Jas in that the demons are, as she put it, omnisexual. They are disembodied beings most of the time and don’t seem to be picky either way. Crowley’s forcing of the man in AAH to kiss him seemed to stem from the man’s homophobia – Crowley just delighted in tormenting him. Perhaps the demons sexuality stems from their preferences pre-demon, it’s hard to say.
They haven’t touched on homosexuality too much in Supernatural, but I don’t think the setting of the show really provides for it – again, the small town – middle America thing (not that homosexuals wouldn’t be in such towns – just less likely to be jumping up and down saying “I’m gay!” when Sam and Dean pull into town). The boys are generally approached with caution at best and violent suspicions at worst (often with guns), so I can’t see people disclosing their sexual preferences off the bat to the scary strangers – especially given that by the time Sam and Dean roll into town, someone – or more than on someone – has been killed and/or disappeared and/or attacked by a strange creature – these people have other things on their minds, like not dying.
Elle, I have really no idea where this notion of Dean or Sam being bisexual comes from. Is this another chain of thought within some weirdo part of this fandom? Team Slash Fan Frustrated?
I can’t think why that might become an issue on a show that deals with good vs. evil, brother caring for brother.
I’m with you here, the setting is not one for homosexuality, but that is also not treated in any derogatory way. It’s just not a storyline here (we’ve had the occacional gay character, though.).
I’d like to focus more on what unites us than what devides us. In this case – loving a great show that we have a lot in common with in terms of human dealings… the struggle for life, for love, for being there for one another. Not within those paranormal dimensions, of course, but many deeply human issues are touched on here.
Best, Jas
Just a short post to say that I have never seen anything as racist or misogynistic on this show, and I have watched every episode many many times over.
As for the boys being bi-sexual? I’ve seen no evidence whatsoever to justify that accusation. Could it be when Dean seemed to have a man-crush on Dr. Sexy in “Changing Channels”? Give me a break! The only place you can find evidence for that is in fan fiction which has no credibility to the show’s canon. So show me where the “tons of evidence” can be found!
And weak women? There have been oodles of strong intelligent women on this show since the second episode in the series and continuing on until the present.
I think some people make mountains of mere molehills trying to find evidence of such things. When casting for the show they seem to welcome all ethnicities to audition for all the different parts, whether good bad or evil.
In my opinion Dean treats women well. His one night stands are with women who are well aware and willing to go along and not expect any long term relationship to ensue. And what woman wouldn’t want to have a good time with Dean, eh? Speaking for myself of course. 😉
I’m glad to see so many comments in the discussion thread. I was so surprised to hear and read comments that the show is mean to minorities or ethnicities that I just had to take a peek with that distinct focus and yep, a whole pile of stats tossed onto the table dispell that for me.
As for the bisexual aspect…I have to wonder if perhaps there is an element that is looking for that and hoping to see it and that with that mindset they intepret these particular examples as times when Dean showed a preference for men:
Bloodlust when Dean celebrates with Gordon over drinks over killing vampires and then opens up over his pain and loss of his father.
Rather than that being a bisexual moment the real story here is that Dean does not want to show weakness and grief to Sam and yet not long after this Sam echoes back Dean’s exact words making it clear that he knows all about Dean’s pain and grief and wants Dean to know he understands.
Or how about Sex and Violence when Dean bonded with the siren appearing as a male FBI agent. Again, rather than this being anything to do with Dean and bisexuality it was all about showing the growing rift between the brothers and how lost Dean was now that he believed the one person in his life he could truly count on and who respected him no longer cared. Again, nothing to do with bisexuality, everything to do with losing the love and respect of his brother (or so he thought)
There’s ample evidence to show that whenever Dean is faced with life or death he focuses on ladies: Faith (Layla), [not to mention refusing to die in a hospital where the nurses aren’t pretty — rather he wanted to die with family = Sam]
What about in Magnificent Seven and The Kids Are All Right, his ‘dying wish’ to love it up with the ladies.
When faced with ‘world ending events’ he wants to go to the Bunny Ranch.
Heaven and Hell he spends ‘their last night on earth’ with Anna.
Abandon All Hope he looks to Jo for their ‘last night on earth’
Dean shows no interest in anyone other than the ladies.
As for Sam, he may not be the ogler that Dean is but he was ‘shopping for rings’ for Jessica. He found comfort and a new outlook with Sarah (Provenance). Madison was certainly someone he had passion with as well as Dr. Cara and then there is the Ruby element which was all about feeling something, anything in his overwhelming grief.
Sam was interested in Meg at first glance, suspicious (rightly so) at the second and when his subconscious took over he dreamed of being hot and heavy with Bela.
I see no evidence of anything bisexual.
As for demons…I wonder, since we have learned that all demons were once human and that they take the name of their host, was Meg really a woman in predemon life or was she a man? We know she stuffed herself into Sam (as Dean so humorously pointed out) perhaps as a smoky demon the who what and everything else means nothing.
Also, honestly the whole demon as male and female gets a bit murky (or smoky) as Lilith was Lilith down in the pit and thus not taking the name of her host but Meg was Meg because Meg Masters was the host she inhabited and Ruby kept her name no matter what host she inhabited…ah, something else to ponder.
have fun.
Hi Elle2
When I first read the comment referring to Supernatural being racist/misogyny, I was actually kind of shocked by the statement. I only ever go to this site and on occasion to one other, so I was not even aware that this was even a topic or an issue with fans.
I too went thru all the episodes and found as you did, numerous white males either being a victim/killed or was the evil entity in the show, so I didn’t see where this was coming from.
Now I know Dean has referenced on occasion the word Bitch, but it has either been directed at an evil female or his brother.
Now usually Dean will use the reference “kill those evil SOB’s†which I always took it to mean all evil entities, both males and female. But I guess if you were to take the words literally it is a direct insult to the evil entities mother.
Now ‘kill those evil bastards’ might be best fitted since it references both male and female (being conceived and/or born out of wedlock). Mind you the bastard reference is usually directed at a male, so maybe it isn’t a good reference after all. We wouldn’t want people to think the show has a hatred for men.
As for the comment that Sam and Dean are bisexual, I have to admit I never saw this one coming.:shock:
I’m going to have to go with the majority here again and say I don’t see it. I believe for me to even give this serious consideration I would need examples of these bisexual moments.
Is it because Sam and Dean love and care about each other?
Or because they love and care about Bobby and Castiel?
Because if loving and caring for a person of the same sex is considered bisexual, then you may as well say the whole world is one.
Thank you for the enlightening article Elle2.
So now that you have a new topic that has spawned from this one, can we expect a new article? 😀
Hi Elle. Thank you so much for writing this. I’ve had a bit of a crazy week so I’m just catching up on the articles on this site. As you know, I completely agree with you and I’m so glad your review of the episodes reflected my own analysis (if I can call it that).
Sam and Dean are bisexual? Say what? I don’t think I’ve ever seen evidence of that. If there is, it’s really, really, REALLY subtle. I suspect that some fans are placing their own desires and views on certain scenes that could possibly (and I say possibly in the loosest sense) be construed as such.
Hi, Karen and Jeannine,
Thanks for catching up (Jeannine) and adding your thoughts. As for another article since this spawned a new avenue of thought? Not planning on one, I put my thoughts in one of the comments I wrote with this article so that will have to do. I agree with you, Jeannine, as you’ll see in my comment 🙂 that I too believe sometimes if someone wants something to be seen in the context of a situation that through their own personal filter they’ll ‘see’ what isn’t there.
you bring up an excellent point, Karen, that if in loving someone that makes you bisexual then I guess the Winchesters to engage in wincest as they do love eachother. Frankly I think that’s way too over the top but again, if that’s how some people want to see it, that’s their choice.
I remembered happily that an Asian in “After school special” was shown in a role of a school kid and not just prostitutes as in “Curious Case”. Too many “Busty Asian Beauty” porno magazines pepper in the show.
The whole Dean is bisexual is just some fans wanting to reconcile fannon with cannon. And correct to those people who guessed that it is just some people placing their desires and interpreting scenes, moments, words to fit what they want to believe. I mean wincest is the big one. Now they interpret everything Dean says to Castiel as Dean and Castiel in love. *insert eye-roll* Things that normally Dean would say to any one and not mean anything, the moment it is directed at Sam or Castiel, they jump on it and twist it to match their fannon.
I don’t think anything is wrong with slashing characters Heck i do it. The problem arises when it gets confused and expected in cannon and treated as the real deal. Sam and Dean are not having sex with each other even though they really love each other more than most people but we know why that is. Dean and Castiel are not in-love. They are comrades with growing fondness for each other.
Anything more is just fan wish.
It’s been so long since I’ve been to this site and it’s like a whole other world. So much has changed. A lot more ads…
School has been kicking my butt, but now that school is over, I am back, baby!
There’s a significant Hmong and Laotian population in Minnesota and Wisconsin, as well as in California–and Middle America has changed significantly in the last twenty years. Muslim families, Hindi families, Vedic, Buddhist–Asian, Indian, African, and Latino–there is no excuse for the Winchesters not to have run into different kinds of people.
The problem, I believe, lies with The CW. Look at it: It’s a lack of diversity network (and ONE person of a darker complexion is NOT diversity. I’m looking at you, “90210.”). And diversity doesn’t just mean skin color. Male and female characters need to be both strong and weak, but inconsistencies in storytelling and bad casting create a character who cannot stand up to the main players. Frankly, casting is hard, especially if you’re given the Character Breakdowns a week in advance and are expected to perform miracles. Or you hire your untalented niece …
Like I was saying, blame The CW. I know I do; however, women being called the B-word is getting on my nerves. Just because you can write a derogatory statement leads to sloppy writing. ALL writing is about the right word in the right place. EVERY word should have meaning. You don’t call someone a B-word unless it MEANS something, thus contributing to the emotional impact of the scene.
I have learned A LOT in my screenwriting classes. 🙂
Not that anyone’s reading this thread anymore–this is what I get for not checking back–but everyone who contests the reading that Dean is bisexual: I direct your attention to http://waterofthemoon.livejournal.com/430230.html. I don’t know offhand of a similar meta collecting the evidence that Sam is bisexual. Collecting evidence that Dean and Sam are attracted to women does not, by the way, prove they’re straight; it just proves they’re not gay. And Crowley kisses entirely too many guys for him to be straight, and I spent entirely too long in the Harry Potter fandom to consider his use of the word ‘fag’ evidence for anything except that Kripke stole Crowley from Good Omens.
Bevie: “As for the boys being bi-sexual? I’ve seen no evidence whatsoever to justify that accusation.” Accusation? Excuse me? If I say you’re bisexual, I’m not accusing you of anything. I’m making a statement. Might be true, might not be, but it’s about as accusatory as saying you have brown hair. Just like I’m not accusing Dean of being bisexual when I say he is, and just like I’m not accusing myself of being bisexual when I say I am. I’d appreciate an apology.
Fair enough … You’re right about Crowley, he’s definitely out and proud ( or whatever the demonic equivalent is ) and not too fussy if he’s tongue wrestling our Bobby, who has many sterling qualities but isn’t what you might call irresistably snoggable ( unless you’re ZombieWife, but she’s dead so presumably has lower standards )
I still think Dean’s straight, though.
Just now catching up, Elle2—I’m still behind. Fascinating article and discussion. I agree, Supernatural strikes me as being pretty equal opportunity in terms of good and evil, not to mention gruesome deaths across the board. Doesn’t really matter who you are. I do kind of wish some strong, positive female characters could actually stick around and survive (leave Missouri alone, hee) but so it goes… I mean, almost no one but the leads gets to stick around and survive, this being a horror show, and the leads are all dudes. Very much agree with you about Anna though, I don’t think her character was developed consistently or well, her appearance in TSRTS felt utilitarian and contrived to me. But I’ve said that before so I’d better stop harping about it, sorry…
Missouri, Henriksen, Rufus and Joshua are some of the most appealing characters we’ve seen on this series. George Darrow’s character was incredibly poignant and heartbreaking—he added so much to that episode in just one scene. I also think that because a character is evil doesn’t mean they’re not interesting, complex, appealing or well-loved by the audience. I mean, I LOVE LOVE LOVE Uriel, thought Robert Wisdom was awesome in the role and I still miss him and want him back. Gordon was a rich and fascinating character as well. I wonder how much just comes down to casting—I know sometimes they’re actively looking for someone of a certain ethnicity but often I think it’s open and they just choose whoever conveys the character best. And the casting on this show has by and large been outstanding.
Seraphim, yeah, the ethnic landscape of middle America is changing, but having spent a fair amount of time in small Midwest towns as a med student, they’re still not very diverse on the whole, in my experience anyway. And for the most part I agree with you about the use of words, although Dean usually gets a pass from me, seeing as a, er, coarser vocab is probably consistent with his character and he’s generally talking to witches and demons for whom his lack of sympathy is well known and who seem to have earned the appellation… I’m inclined to agree that the word whore might have been overused in 99 Problems though, evil as that character was.
Interesting about the demons—they certainly seem to have gender preferences (based on their human origins?), but I agree with Jas: they’re basically clouds of smoke and can possess male and female bodies alike, makes them seem sexually ambiguous to me.
As for the essay referenced couple posts above, it’s well written, but the interpretation of events and their perceived subtext are so clearly seen through the lens of the author’s particular bias that I didn’t find much weight to the arguments. In other words there’s a whole lot of projecting going on.
Sorry, wrote another book… :roll::
I like supernatural and the the characters themselves dont seem racist, but its been 8 seasons and there has’nt been 1 black good guy thats lasted more then one episode, and kevin is one of the only asians that ive even seen on the show. I think it might be a bit late to fix the race issue for supernatural, but better late then never.
Sandra McCoy, who played Dean’s crossroad demon, is Fillipina.