Synopsis for Supernatural Episode 11.10 Updated with Official Press Release
As we celebrate the end of 2015, we have a description of the first episode of Supernatural in 2016.
From TV Addict
Press release via SpoilerTV.
“The Devil in the Details” — (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET)
LUCIFER MAKES SAM AN OFFER — Now that he has Sam (Jared Padalecki) in the cage with him, Lucifer (guest star Mark Pellegrino) offers Sam a way out but it comes with a steep price. Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Castiel (Misha Collins) look into the angel smiting that could have killed Amara (guest star Emily Swallow). Thomas J. Wright directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb (#1110).
I’m going to guess that Dean doesn’t find out that Sam is trapped with Lucifer, because going after Amara? doesn’t fit if he does know Sam is trapped. Lucifer will offer Sam a way out. What will the cost be? At least Sam has a chance to save himself. Give us your thoughts in the comments or in the discussion thread for episode 10.
It seems clear that the deal Lucifer wants is Sam agrees to be possessed by him. I am putting my foot down here, and I don’t give a rats ass what ends up happening in the episode, Sam would NEVER agree to Lucifer possessing him. Sam is not dumb enough to put faith in Lucifer having just been shown (for the umpteenth time) that him having faith in anything or anyone is entirely futile and bad things will result from that faith. Sam also knows that the safest thing is to keep Lucifer in the cage even if Sam has to stay with him. He did it in Season 5 and he would do it again.
Sam would not agree to being possessed by Lucifer in order to get out of the cage.
I like the idea that Sam is going to get the opportunity to rescue himself O/. Sam needs to have faith in HIMSELF. I hope Sam’s story isn’t done entirely off-screen…
It would be good if we got some idea of what the story is with Dean and Amara, I hope they are going to make it a bit clearer.
Dean has to find out Sam is in the cage with Lucifer or at least not answering his phone!!!!!!! Looking into the possible death of Amara by the heavenly host/ angels won’t take long. Amara cannot be killed and she is probably causing havoc in Heaven.
Are we really supposed to think that there has been any damage done to Amara? Also I thought the angels weren’t communicating with Castiel any more? Where is he going to get info from?
I wonder if Dean would call Crowley and believe him if he said Sam was busy – or if Crowley has Sam’s cell phone I bet he or Rowena could fake Sam’s voice? Crowley and Dean are (sorta) allied at the moment and Dean is inclined to believe that Crowley is reliable (on occasion). Dean is very distracted by Amara so he might decide that finding out what is going on with her is more important.
It is possible that Dean could be fooled by Crowley and I do agree Dean has thought Crowley to be reliable (huge change from season 3-5 of trusting demons). I also agree that Dean is seriously distracted by Amara. But, it would be out of character for Dean now to not even try to get Sam on the phone or check on him especially knowing Sam was working on contacting Lucifer; a mission to which he had strong reservations.
I agree, but that does look like what is going to happen, I am just trying to come up with a scenario that fits the synopsis. I think Crowley and Rowena will screw with him. Possibly because Rowena wants Lucifer to have time to work on Sam (or work Sam over I guess).
Dean didn’t answer the phonecall from Sam when he should have. I assume there is more to that than just the writers saying ‘we needed to split the boys up for the storyline to work’, and maybe that influence will continue?
I actually like the possibility that Dean remains unaware (at least for awhile) of Sam’s predicament and is off dealing with the Amara situation. That would seem to indicate that Sam might actually save himself this time, or at least remain strong in his dealings with Lucifer. And I agree with you eilf- Sam would not agree to being possessed simply so he can escape the cage. He has proven beyond any doubt that he is willing to sacrifice himself rather than have Lucifer unleashed upon the world. But I still like the idea that Sam is given some sign or vision that makes him confident that he could once again take control of his body even after Lucifer possesses him.
I just love the idea of a strong Sam who is in control and using Lucifer and his powers to defeat the D, rather than Lucifer using him to accomplish his own goals. Kind of like the mirror scene in Swan Song, except that this time it is Sam who controls when Lucifer is allowed to surface and be heard. I know it’s an unlikely scenario, but it would make for an excellent story for Sam, allowing him to show the strength of character and will that he possesses in abundance, but which we haven’t seen much of the past few seasons.
It would be amazing, but it wouldn’t be Supernatural for him to have superpowers and I don’t really see them doing that storyline. I prefer human Sam using human smarts to rescue himself anyway! I think he is supposed to rescue himself – it is the only half plausible reason for setting the last story up in a way that meant the boys lose communication with each other.
Sam as an angel with angel powers has already been done too, twice. They already did it in Swan Song and that was indicated as only being as long as it took to jump. And while he had little trouble defeating Gadreel I think that is because he was cheated into agreeing to possession by Gadreel (or whoever) and it made his possession weaker. And also because Gadreel is a lesser angel than Lucifer and (if even only for a moment) Sam controlled Lucifer … hmm I could come round to the idea of Sam being able to control angels 😀
It is possible that Lucifer might get Sam to bargain – that when the battle comes down to the line with Amara Sam will channel Lucifer to allow him to kill her. But that is a really bad idea also because no matter how you slice it Lucifer is as bad as, or worse than, Amara. Replacing one with the other is like using Cain’s power source to kill Abbadon and then ending up with WildCain and DeanCain instead. Oh and Amara and the Darkness. It just makes things worse.
Also I am fairly sure ‘God’ beats ‘Angel’ in the game of God / Angel / Human 🙂 Lucifer doesn’t know where Amara’s brother is so he can’t use that as a bribe and he wasn’t the one to create the mark so chances are he can’t do much about that either?
[quote]it wouldn’t be Supernatural for him to have superpowers[/quote]
Well, he did have his super demon powers! And it wouldn’t really be Sam’s powers, rather he would be utilizing or harnessing Lucy’s powers. Sadly, I think you’re right that the story will not go in this direction. But I just love the thought of a strong Sam beating Lucy at his own game. I guess I’ll have to wait for the fan fiction on this one. I’m talking to you YellowEyedSam!
My second favorite scenario would be Sam outwitting Lucy with the end result that Sam gets out of the cage relatively unscathed and with some valuable intel on how the D is vulnerable. I would very happily settle for that.
That is the only possible good result – Sam outsmarting Lucifer (I am going to totally ignore your comment about demon blood powers because of course you are absolutely right about that 😀 – but supposedly … oh wait hey, hang on a minute …)
*has a thought* So get this! What if Lucifer isn’t really trying to get Sam to allow him to possess him again, or he moves directly onto plan B. Which is to get Sam to reignite his demon-blood / apparently doesn’t need demon blood powers? I have lost track of the situation with the DB powers, they (or the demon blood enhancement at least) weren’t at all connected to the Apocalypse according to Ruby, and it seemed like Yellow Eyes just took advantage of latent powers in children. So what if the powers have some other purpose and Lucifer knows what it is?
There has been a hint that that story-line may come back.
ETA: they were a) demon-killing powers and he didn’t NEED the demon blood to do it. and b) visions. so we already have the visions…..(and c) telekinesis that one time)
Demon blood to be strong enough to beat Lucifer’s possession was tagged on afterwards and didn’t work anyway.
Hmmm, intriguing hypothesis. Count me among those who would love for the show to revisit the Sam’s powers/demon blood story. I always thought Kripke left that pretty muddled. Seemingly none of the other special children needed demon blood to activate or heighten their powers, so why would Sam be any different? Especially if he was YED’s most favored? And Ruby did say to Sam that he, like Dumbo, didn’t need the feather to fly. But in S 5 they clearly indicated that Sam’s powers required demon blood. Then of course they dropped the whole story line with no resolution until S8 when the trials were supposedly purifying Sam, although they certainly never made clear whether he was in fact purified of the demon blood. So I for one would love it if they finally tied that plot thread up in some way. However, at ComicCon this summer Carver explicitly said that they would not be revisiting that story line. At least that’s my recollection, although my memory has been a bit faulty lately. But I would really love it if you’re right, and if the show surprises us by having Lucifer’s motives/endgame being something beyond merely using Sam as a vessel to escape. Especially since it makes zero sense that simply having a vessel would enable Lucifer to escape the cage! It shouldn’t be that easy. After all, both he and Michael fell into the cage still in their vessels, and that didn’t provide them with the means to escape. So I’m hoping for just a wee bit of clarification on this whole cage deal.
Jared asked about it in a tweet during the summer. Now that could easily be just them being bored and having a conversation about show lore but it could be more than that.
Count me in as one who would love to see Sam’s DB issue return…. I guess my only question is, how would Lucifer benefit from that in a way that would make him want to make a deal for it? I can’t think of anything unless of course they are planning to expand on that storyline and take it in a new direction, which would be cool.
Also count me in to wanting to see Sam figure his own way out of his predicament, especially as the synopsis is making it seem as though Dean can’t be bothered with his brother in the cage and is chasing Amara around instead. I know that often the synopsis’s aren’t really accurate and even could be considered inflammatory, but geez…… Dean is chasing after Amara? Does he even call Sam or find out anything about him? Does he even know Sam is in the cage? Of all the things I expected to read about this episode, that was not it. And Cas too? They finally get Cas involved and he’s helping Dean with Amara? Really? Well, I guess Sam will HAVE to get himself out of this mess, he’s certainly doesn’t seem to have any help forthcoming. I really hope that this is a case of a misleading synopsis and not really how the episode is going to go.
To be honest Sam rescuing himself from the cage without Dean’s help or knowledge (and without making a possession deal with Lucifer and without Cas getting involved) would be the best possible result. His story all season to date is that he needs to be autonomous. Dean’s decisions for him have become smothering and almost invariably have bad consequences. There have been hints all season that they are going to stop with the ‘dictator and soldier’ / parent and child storyline. Please let that be the case, please! Once Sam has done this for himself then they can go back to the equality they had before Jeremy Carver started messing with them.
Plus the writers really need to start emphasizing that things happening to Sam are things happening to Sam and not merely things happening so we can see how Dean feels about it. They’ve spent so much of the last few seasons doing that that nowadays it is like things have only happened if Dean knows about / acknowledges them.
I don’t have any faith in the writers not screwing Sam over again though soooo…
Here is a theory about Amara – lets assume she does actually have the hots for Dean, what if getting smited meant she needed a new body and she took over from Cas in Jimmy Novak’s meatsuit. And continued to have the hots for Dean. I think this storyline would have the amazing effect of managing to annoy literally every fan out there. And there is potential in the trailer for that to happen….
AHAHAHAHA! Your theory would tick off every fan base out there. I think I’d love it just for that.
Wouldn’t it though 😀 Everybody. At once.
I agree with percys. Your suggestion cracked me up. Or what would upset even more people is if Amara took over Cas’s body but then, realizing that it was Sam’s plan that ultimately freed her, she developed the hots for him!
AH!! that would be awesome!
Can you imagine how puzzled Sam would be? 😉
Dean! Get him/her/them away from me will ya?
Sorry Sam I know I have a water sprayer around here somewhere…
I think I’d love that a little too! The Dean/Cas shippers would loose their minds. heh.
And I agree too about ending the Dictator/minion relationship between the brothers too. We haven’t gotten any info on how things that happen to Sam have affected Sam in years. Sam doing the trials was about Dean, Sam getting possessed was about Dean too. Sam trying to save Dean had zero Sam perspective either except for that fact that he was worried about Dean. Season 11 is the first season of the Carver years that it seems that they’ve even remembered that Sam is a separate character from Dean and that he experiences things for himself and that we, as the audience want to see what he experiences as something completely apart from Dean. So far this year we were getting that, and seeing a few aspects of Sam’s personality that have been dormant since season 3. I’d like to see Sam work this out on his own and not damn the world a second time while doing it either (he’s already taking all the blame for the Darkness as it is).
As long as Sam had a badass storyline also 😀 I would be able to sit back and eat popcorn …
I agree with the whole Sam needs to save himself premise and I truly hope his personal strength and faith comes into play. But it would be out of character for Dean to not attempt to even contact Sam while he is on this mission. I need a plausible reason Dean is more concerned with Amara than Sam.
[quote] But it would be out of character for Dean to not attempt to even contact Sam while he is on this mission.[/quote]
Agreed. I think the scenario might be as eilf suggests, that Crowley and/or Rowena somehow convince Dean or fool him into thinking that Sam is fine, and preparing for the visit to the cage. Because Dean would not be off with Cas doing whatever if he was aware of Sam’s dire situation.
Well, I could certainly see why Rowena might want to hang Sam out to dry, and it also occurs to me that Rowena may have made some kind of deal with Lucifer that involves Sam. And Crowley has reason to be angry at Sam for trying to kill him, but he seems more pragmatic than that. He knows that betraying Sam means that he will be enemy no. 1 as far as Dean is concerned and Crowley has benefitted from his association with the Winchesters for some time now. And given that Amara now hates Crowley that may be an association that he’s not willing to destroy at this time.
I agree that Crowley was surprised by the turn of events and that as he so sweetly said, killing Sam (while on his bucket list) is not on his current agenda. I just think they have to give some credible reason why Crowley at least temporarily thinks it best to not enlighten Dean about Sam’s situation. Because the preview doesn’t make much sense otherwise. we would be seeing a frantic Dean doing anything he could to rescue Sam.
Well, at some point Dean does go to Billie and I can’t see that part of the episode being about Amara….Billie would be no help there that I can think of, so maybe Dean finds out about Sam eventually. Still, the fact that he goes traipsing off after Amara really rubs me the wrong way. I really, really hope that they explain that in some way that is plausible. I could definitely see Rowena running a scam on Dean for sure and manipulating Crowley into helping as well.
Well if Billie is the new Death then she is the only person capable of reaping God – and therefore gods sister. However her role is not to kill, it is to reap, so it might be a case of making an agreement?
3 scenarios: 1. if they have Sam agreeing to be possessed again, i will be pissed off
2. if Dean calls Sam, he doesnt answer, he should figure out Sam is stuck with Lucifer in the cage, hunting Amarra is more important than Sam???
3. Dean is tricked into believing Crowley and/or Rowena convincing him of Sam situation.
But Dean does go to see Billie. I can’t see Billie being any help in the Amara situation, so maybe that has to do with Dean trying to help Sam. Still I agree, there had better be a good reason that Dean goes chasing off after Amara, and gets Cas to help with Amara or I’m going to be pissed.
[quote]But that is a really bad idea also because no matter how you slice it Lucifer is as bad as, or worse than, Amara.[/quote]
Amara wants to destroy everything whilst Lucifer just wants the planet to himself 😛
[quote]Well, he did have his super demon powers! And it wouldn’t really be Sam’s powers, rather he would be utilizing or harnessing Lucy’s powers. Sadly, I think you’re right that the story will not go in this direction. But I just love the thought of a strong Sam beating Lucy at his own game.[/quote]
Mmm delicious. Imagine Sam drowning in the intense power of Lucifer and going power mad. I need something to make up for the major letdown at the end of Form and Void! I only wanted a bit of rabid Sam *sniff*
[quote]I’m talking to you YellowEyedSam![/quote]
Well I did write quite a few corrupt Sam shorts including one hell of a unique way to get rid of a demon.
[quote]Which is to get Sam to reignite his demon-blood / apparently doesn’t need demon blood powers? I have lost track of the situation with the DB powers, they (or the demon blood enhancement at least) weren’t at all connected to the Apocalypse according to Ruby, and it seemed like Yellow Eyes just took advantage of latent powers in children. So what if the powers have some other purpose and Lucifer knows what it is?
ETA: they were a) demon-killing powers and he didn’t NEED the demon blood to do it. and b) visions. so we already have the visions…..(and c) telekinesis that one time)
Demon blood to be strong enough to beat Lucifer’s possession was tagged on afterwards and didn’t work anyway.[/quote]
Oh my god I would love for the demon blood thing to come up again. I could see Lucifer taking advantage of the situation and as you said re-awaken the demon blood. I wouldn’t put it past Luci if he planted something in Sam to lean him towards corruption so he would take Luci in.
[quote]There has been a hint that that story-line may come back.[/quote]
WHAT?! I would fangirl so bad! HOLY CRAP! Time machine! I need a time machine NOW!
[quote]Seemingly none of the other special children needed demon blood to activate or heighten their powers, so why would Sam be any different?[/.quote]
Yep they didn’t. I mean I loved the demon drinking blood arc. I know Sam’s got a powerful will to resist corruption from the powers but come on, he’s not invincible. Eva and Jake had something happen to them to let the corruption seep in. Sam has something to and I know exactly what that would be; Dean. I’ve thought of ways that would invoke such extreme emotion Sam would in a fit of rage/grief flip those switches. But lets start with a fine example; when Sam had the vision of Dean dying in Nightmare and it triggered these emotions, causing his powers to emerge. Now imagine a long, complex, sneaky plot to maximize the final result.
[quote]But in S 5 they clearly indicated that Sam’s powers required demon blood[/quote]
They did? Maybe its because he’s not used to using lv 5 boosted power with level 1 power. Sorry gaming reference but first example that popped into my head 😉 Either way that’s a stupid reason. He can use the powers without drinking blood.
[quote]Here is a theory about Amara – lets assume she does actually have the hots for Dean, what if getting smited meant she needed a new body and she took over from Cas in Jimmy Novak’s meatsuit. And continued to have the hots for Dean. I think this storyline would have the amazing effect of managing to annoy literally every fan out there. And there is potential in the trailer for that to happen….[/quote]
No. Just. No.
Sam won’t agree to being possessed so that can’t be the “steep price” Lucifer is asking. But, then again, Carver will use Sam as a plot device as he sees fit and doesn’t care if it’s out of character.
Hypothetically, if Lucifer were to get Sam to agree to possession, that still doesn’t get Lucifer out of the cage.
Amara may have been weakened by the angel blast but I don’t think the angels can kill her. The angels are the Jar Jar Binks of the Supernatural universe.
They better come up with a valid reason for Castiel’s absence in the last episode; it made no sense at all.
I hope they clarify Dean and Amara’s “link”; are they intentionally leaving it ambiguous until Carver figures out where he’s going with this?
I don’t understand the speculating that Billie is the new Death. Billie is a reaper, just like Tessa. Death was a horseman and there were only four of them.
The whole demon blood storyline has already played out and I hope they don’t revisit it. It served its purpose in preparing Sam to be Lucifer’s vessel. And besides, I think it would be a huge step backwards in Sam’s character development.
There is a huge difference between Season 5 and Season 11 Sam. In earlier seasons, Sam was a very angry young man. Lucifer can no longer feed off of that anger like he did in Season 5. It would be nice to see smart Sam figure out a way to escape Lucifer.
Completely agree on every point. The only reason Sam would agree to be possessed by Luci is the same he had in season 5, that is, his counting to overpower him in his mind. And he is much stronger now as the personality than he was in season 5. So, if he agrees to be possessed, I don’t have any doubts that Sam will win and conquer Luci again, but this time for good. And certainly, he should do it alone, Luci is his unfinished business. He also has to save Adam’s soul, it’s high time for that. Though I don’t know what to do with Michael, if he is still alive.
I think Dean may go after Amara just because of time difference in Hell, the Cage, and the Earth. In season 6 we had a strong indication, that time in the Cage is going much faster, than even in Hell. So while on the Earth only a couple of minutes have passed in the Cage it’s a week. So the authors just can play on that time difference, so Dean may just have no time to learn about what have happened to Sam until he finds a way out on his own. Anyway I don’t see how Dean can help Sam with Luci, it was Sam who conquered him the last time, not Dean. Unless the authors have decided to rewrite the history completely.
I also think that demon blood is the thing of the past, it has been dealt with, and the only reason it may be mentioned is to confirm that Sam doesn’t have it anymore.
I also completely agree with you about Billie. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
[quote]I also think that demon blood is the thing of the past, it has been dealt with, and the only reason it may be mentioned is to confirm that Sam doesn’t have it anymore.[/quote]
Disagree. It was such an important plot line of the Kripke era that to dump it so quietly doesn’t do it justice. To have Sam say “They’re purifying me” as the finish of that plot line is bad writing to me. No Sam I think what you’re feeling is your body burning up. I’ve said all this before, but that plot line deserves a proper ending, not some dying Sam, likely disillusion saying they’re curing him. I get the feeling those who believe they purified him are just sick of of the demon blood and looking for an excuse to say its done.
btw I’ve seen no confirmation he hasn’t got it anymore. As far as I know its a mystery. Heck even Jared tweeted the question (assuming he wasn’t trolling us :p)
Let’s agree to disagree 🙂 As I think Sam deserves to get free from the curse of his life. He deserved it by his huge sacrifice, by his courage and his real heroism. I strongly detest the idea that everything he went through during season 8 was for nothing, exept his brother’s whims to close the Gates of Hell, then not to close them. Dean has his ideas how to do something heroic but it’s always Sam who pays for them
But here’s the thing. Sam inherently had powers. They were corrupted by Azazel (I went back and read the transcript for Lucifer Rising because I had forgotten all this (and as an aside I am newly pissed at Castiel for what he did)) because Azazel was trying to find the One – Lucifers vessel – under cover of (cough*canonretcon*cough) looking for a captain to lead hell.
Sam’s inherent powers were corrupted by demon blood which left Sam feeling unclean. As always in Supernatural the facts of the story have been overlaid by how Dean interpreted them. Dean thinks supernatural powers make Sam a monster (Metamorphosis) therefore Sam’s powers are monsterous. Papa Winchester could have made it clear to Dean the fact that the demon blood was the corrupting influence but he just chose to say to Dean ‘You might need to kill the person I told you to guard, his life has always been yours to make decisions for, off you go’.
And yet … Andy (Simon Says) for example hadn’t a bad bone in him, Lily didn’t try to kill anyone at Cold Oak (I think). Sam has always tried to make the most moral decision and the fact that it always backfires on him (also at Cold Oak when he decided not to kill given the opportunity and got stabbed in the back for his trouble) may actually be the demon curse’s effect.
Anyway it is totally possible that the powers are benign and the demon blood which is the problem. I don’t think Sam was born ‘a monster’ (or ‘an abomination’ as Castiel put it (have I mentioned Castiel’s role in Lucifer Rising?)) and I don’t think that he has ever been either, even with the demon blood, but Sam does and that is the problem. So I would like to see Sam finally cleared of the demon blood too, though I agree with those who think that he would have had to die doing the trials to have been completely cleared of them. It would be good for that story to be cleared once and for all.
Also the trials story and the veil and the angels falling from heaven have not even been remotely sorted out as a plot and they really should. Currently it stands at ‘We lost the front door key to heaven and now there are a bunch of people trapped in the front garden complaining and slowly going crazy but we found a key to the back door under a pot of geraniums so now we are in the kitchen drinking tea and reading the newspaper.’
I like your sense of humour. 🙂 Especially this part “a key to the back door under a pot of geraniums” cracked me up. And you know, the theory that Sam’s powers really doesn’t have anything with demon blood has been my theory for a very long time. I also think that Azazel chose among children with special abilities and tried to corrupt them with demon blood, usually he was successful, but he failed with Sam. I think in the case with Sam demon and angels tried too hard. They wanted a strong vessel and got too strong as the result. I think the only purpose of the demon blood was to make a person more pliable to evil, but Sam turned out to be stronger. And as the matter of fact he never went dark, like for example Dean did when he was under the influence of the Mark in the last three episodes of season 10. Everything he did during season 4 he did to save people and then to save humanity. There was never even a shred of darkness in him. And his lonly sin was killing a baby-eating monster. The deed he was held responsible for at least 5 seasons.
And I also think that it’s possible that demon blood hampered his abilities, not stimulated them.
As for that his right decisions sometimes backfired, it doesn’t make them wrong and it isn’t the reason to decide otherwise. You know, like “you should always do the right thing and always be ready to pay for that decision a steep price”. So I think Sam never did the wrong thing in his whole life.
Thank you 🙂 I like your theories / outlook. Keep em up. It is nice to see people who are less jaded than I have become after the past couple of years of the show 😀 (Though it is nice to have fellow sufferers too, to know I am not alone, *waves*).
[quote]It would be good for that story to be cleared once and for all.[/quote]
Yes, this along with the fake voicemail, amulet, Adam, etc. :D:D:D
Oh crap we forgot Adam 😮
Huh…….am I the only one who really has no interest in Adam? A simple sentence along the lines of……”Adam was destroyed when Lucifer Molotoved him, his soul was released to heaven six years ago….” and…done. Buh-bye Adam. There are so many other story lines that seem more important to me that directly affect Sam and Dean, and the fate of Adam isn’t one of them.
Really, that’s all I want as well. But I would like a definitive end to Adam’s story. I don’t need him back as a character, just an acknowledgement of what happened to him.
it’s a really easy fix; when Castiel Molotov cocktail’d Michael/Adam with holy oil, that did irreparable damage to Adam as a vessel and Adam’s soul went to heaven.
But didn’t Michael say that Adam wasn’t home … oh no Death said he was in the cage. Well the cage was only bad for someone whose soul was being ‘hatebanged’ (thanks for that visual, Balthazar) – Michael had no reason to torture Adam, he did what he was asked to do – Dean was perfectly right to pick Sam when given the option.
I really don’t care about Adam either; just wish they’d put a throwaway line in one of the episodes to put it to rest once and for all.
Amen
Adam is another loose end. They need to rescue him from the cage, say their goodbyes and send him to heaven.
[quote]But here’s the thing. Sam inherently had powers.[/quote]
I thought the demon blood gave them powers ^^;
They were never very clear about that. Did the special children have powers because of the demon blood or did Azazel pick the special children because they had natural powers that he wanted to corrupt with the demon blood? There’s never been anything definitively stated either way. I like to believe that Azazel picked the children because he knew (somehow) that they had the kind of powers that Hell could utilize already inherently inside of them and then gave them the demon blood to corrupt those powers and make them the instruments of hell and possibly Lucifer’s vessel. There are two reasons that I think that – 1. Each special child had a different power and 2. in the scene in the nursery, right before Azazel comes in, they show baby Sammy in his crib looking at his mobile and then the mobile begins to spin all by itself. Maybe they were indicating that Sam had some powers even then? Anyway, that’s my interpretation.
I never thought about it that way E, but it is a plausible view and I tend to agree. I thought the mobile started spinning because Azazel was in the vicinity. But you are right, each special child had a different gift and Dean could have been chosen too but passed over. I always felt empathy for Sam because right at birth he got saddled with that demon blood.
[img]https://56.media.tumblr.com/16594d44096191b04d5768fa68402da3/tumblr_o0eipyPLpY1srrbgjo2_r1_540.jpg[/img]
It doesn’t prove anything one way or the other but I am always fascinated by this. This is less than a second of Sam’s eyes glowing yellow after he is fed the demon blood. It is almost impossible to see during the episode unless you are looking for it. The other picture is within the same second – meaning the first bit has to be deliberate and not some lighting effect in the room.
Thanks for the screenshot! I love that sneaky shot. Its amazing what you see when you go through frame by frame. *thinks about the Yellow eyed Sam scene with a grin*
*ahem* Anyway. It always irked me that Sam’s eyes went black in S4 finale and not yellow. Do they only flash yellow if using their powers whilst falling to their corruptible influence? Saying that I thought of something amusing..
Demon Dean: “Check this out!” *flicks eyes black*
Demon Sam: “Oh yeah? Watch this” *flicks eyes black, then yellow*
Demon / wasp powers 😀
Yes I only have DVD versions and it is next to impossible to capture it – I know I have seen a GIF of it somewhere but I can’t find it. I bet if someone has season 2 on Blueray they could get a better shot!
I never noticed that before. Then there was the moment in Yellow Fever where Dean imagines Sam’s eyes going yellow at the end even after he’s been cured. Freaky. I guess they decided somewhere along the lines that Sam wasn’t going to get that bad…. especially after the writers strike came and destroyed their time line.
I am one of those that believe the Special children were born with abilites . There had to be something different about them otherwise Azazel could of given demon blood to any 6 mth old if that was the power source, I think little Rose indicated that the ability was already there.
But the show ended up mudding the waters so much with this that is hard to be certain .
I agree. It makes more sense to me that Azazel was picking children that he knew were born with potential. He seemed to go about selecting children very carefully. If he was creating the powers with demon blood then why didn’t he just infect 100,000 children all at once and make them all the same with the same powers to see who would end up being the strongest? Instead he spent years, decades even, searching out these kids… small groups at certain times, corrupted them with his blood then waited to see if one would emerge as a potential leader, to see if they were strong enough to withstand what the demon blood was going to do to them. Max, Eva, Weber, Scott, Lilly could not handle the powers/blood combination, Andy and Jake seemed pretty stable and Sam was the only one to try and hang on to himself completely. I think that, along with Ruby’s comment “you didn’t need the feather to fly” is indicative that those powers were always in Sam and the others and not necessarily an inherently bad thing; it was the demon blood that corrupted and many of the special children imploded under the pressure. I’d love to see the whole scenario come back into play. No, I don’t really want Sam to have special powers in the long run, but if he could tap into them now to defeat Luci, on his own, sans demon blood, that would be awesome! Maybe this confrontation with Luci could “burn them out” once and for all. That would get rid of the need to show Sam’s powers every week, close out a core plot point for this show in a meaningful way and possibly make it so that Sam was finally no better of a vessel for Luci than anyone else… get him off Lucifer’s hook, so to speak. I’d love that. I don’t really have much hope that it will go in this direction, but a girl can dream. 😉
Considering how things turned out, I thought that Azazel was looking for children that were genetically able to be a vessel to an Archangel. The powers may have been tied to that gene, the way deafness is tied to white cats who have blue eyes. It was unclear when Azazel was talking about what he wanted from the special children. The indication was that they were to lead his army. Later, of course, the goal was a vessel for Lucifer. It’s too bad Azazel didn’t know about the all powerful Book of the Damned. He could have had a long talk with Lucifer to get details instead of the incredibly ambiguous “find me a special child” message, which, let’s face it, is not the clearest instruction to give. However, I do think Azazel knew he needed a vessel for Lucifer and was tagging kids who would be the “proper” age to fulfill the prophecy who had the genetic markers of being Archangel vessel potentials.
I wonder why the age was important? And how far it went since he had had batches of kids? Maybe he needed a 23 year old just not at that precise time? Like if Dean had been the one it all would have happened 4 years earlier?
YED said (In The Beginning) that Dean wasn’t one of his ‘psychic kids’ but his sibling was. And it specifically needed to be a child of (someone like) Mary so if that were the only requirement Dean should have been just as good a bet. But he wasn’t – therefore Sam was inherently psychic and the demon blood was additional to make him ‘big and strong’ (which might explain some stuff about the discrepancy between Sam’s childhood diet and his size 🙂 ). Of course the flaw in the later retcon is then why should Lucifer’s vessel be known to be psychic and Michael’s vessel not be?
ETA: of course he might have meant ‘my’ psychic kid, emphasis on the my. Perhaps Dean is also psychic but it never developed because he wasn’t trained? Either way the indication is that the psychic ability was inherent at least in Sam.
As someone who thinks the demon blood storyline has already played out, it was not because I was sick of it My position is that the demon blood was intended to make Sam strong enough to be Lucifer’s vessel in order to face Michael in the Apocalypse (and yes, it was a bit of a retcon from Azazel saying Sam was to lead a demon army). Since the Apocalypse was averted by Sam jumping in the cage and taking Lucifer and Michael with him, it has served its purpose. We’ve had no indication whatsoever that Sam has craved/desired demon blood since he came back from the cage. And, if anyone would have drank demon blood, it would have been Soulless Sam; he would have viewed it as a tactical weapon to take out demons.
One more concideration. So far from we have been shown Dean with the Mark would be much more of a threat to people than Amara has been, considering the scale of the devastation the self-righteous unstoppable killer convinced in moral flaws of humanity would have made on the Earth. So I think Sam made the right choice not only as a brother, but simply as a human being and the hero as he is and has always been.
I don’t think Sam will agree to be Luci’s vessel again as he’s got no reason to. Besides, storewise, they’ve been there and done that already. And taking on Sam as a vessel again doesn’t get either of them out of the cage, so there really isn’t any reason for Luci to even want control over Sam in that way any more. They are together in the ‘visiter’s’ cage and in the cage Luci doesn’t need a vessel, and Sam being a vessel don’t get Luci topside, so asking Sam to let him in again serves no purpose. I am hoping that we haven’t seen all there is to see of the Sam/Luci confrontation and I am desperately hoping that Sam has an ace up his sleeve…. that would be the Sam we’ve been seeing all season long.
About the demon blood story. I wouldn’t mind a mention of that or some more closure to it. I agree with Disgruntled; it is a core issue that launched the show and for it to get a single sentence mention (and a cryptic mention to boot) does not do that core issue justice. I’d like to see more even if it’s to finally put that story to rest. And I both agree and disagree with the notion that Sam is stronger now than he was in season 5. Yes, as a person he’s stronger and more centered than he was, and much, much less angry. That makes him stronger as a person. But Luci needed that anger as part of what would fuel Sam’s vessel for him. And in season 5 Sam was full of demon blood; he ingested gallons of it before taking Luci on and continued to consume it (by killing all the demons that had been hounding him as a child) while Luci was inside him. Those two things, the demon blood and the anger are two things that made Sam the ideal vessel. So even though Sam has grown as a man he’s now actually less suitable as a vessel as he’s conquered many of the attributes that Luci wanted him to have. Maybe once Luci touches Sam he will be able to tell something about the demon blood in Sam, give us some confirmation of it’s presence or not.
But it seems like Lucifer has a plan to get out and he needs something to replace the orange jumpsuit (plume of smoke, whatever) as he makes his prison break. I wonder does Mark Pellegrino ever wonder about the way tv shows view him as potential smoke monsters? I suspect Rowena has somehow managed to get in contact with him and they have half the plan and they need Sam for the other half.
Poor Sammy. I think if that is the case, that Luci is making a bid to get out of the cage, that he’ll be stymied by Sam; I can’t fathom a way in which Sam would agree to such a thing… not to save himself that’s for sure, and that’s really the only leverage Luci has against him at the moment. I am still not convinced that what we are seeing now is actually reality. If the release of Amara really did damage the cage with “fissures” that Luci could communicate through, then why hasn’t Michael tried to communicate with Dean? Maybe both Michael and Luci have been sending visions to Sam, but it doesn’t make sense that Michael would not involve Dean in the vision thing if he was able to communicate, and it stands to reason that if Luci can speak to Sam then Michael can also speak and it should have been with Dean.
Even tho Lucifer supposedly successfully communicated with Sam through the cracks in the cage, maybe Michael was/is unable to reach Dean because of whatever connection/influence Amara has with/over him? Also if you think about it Sam prayed where Dean has not since killing Death. At least I don’t think he has. WhenThe Darkness was released there was a scream from the cage. Even though Sam was praying to God, maybe his prayer opened back up the connection with Lucifer just enough so that he could twist it to his advantage.
Michael never possessed Dean, so maybe thats why.
Could be. Good point YES.
I have no doubt that the offer will not involve Sam being or ever consider being a vessel. I’m still not convinced that what we all saw is actually what we all saw.
Last week’s ep and then the coming attraction had such a surreal feeling to it, it makes me wonder what actually is and what isn’t.
I feel like we missed a scene during the last ep…I still can’t get passed how Dean even found out about the church when he and Sam were with Rowena and Crowley. I feel like an entire scene was left out.
Dean still working on Amara and with Cas no less…..and Sam stuck in the cage? Does that fit? How is it that Dean goes to Cas before he checks in with Sam? And Dean would call Crowley before Sam? Why would Dean go to Crowley if Sam doesn’t answer his phone? Wouldn’t a red flag go up in a ny second? Makes no sense that Dean would bypass Sam and go to Crowley for info.
Dean and Billie? how does that happen? why would dean summon Billie? did he call any reaper and she came? did he specifically go to her? and if so…wouldn’t that indicate that Sam mightve mentioned her to him?
I feel like we’re missing scenes and it makes me wonder if there is a plan b and we’ll get more of what’s really going on in flashbacks. That whole back and forth with Sam and Dean at the beginning of the ep…did we see the entire conversation? Did they get Cas involved in that conversation? Would Dean have left Sam without a plan B? I feel like Sam and dean would’ve taken precautions….
and the promo with sam as a doll and satan as santa…..why would luci create a vision like that in the first place if his goal is to torture Sam? is someone else involved here?
is sam more in control than luci thinks? it wouldn’t be the first time sam went method to gain the upper hand (remember the curious case of dean winchester)
the ep felt very wonky to me….like we’re not necessarily seeing what we think we are seeing….and i can’t just help but think that the boys were more prepared than it seems.
Truly. When doesn’t Sam (and Dean) have a Plan B. That’s been a Sam thing for awhile now. Remember the ep where Cas and Sam had to abandon the attempt to get Hanna to hand over Metatron because she refused and they were angelically outnumbered? Sam had a Plan B… So yeah, maybe there is more than meets the eye especially since the two episodes are connected.
As far as the Christmas scene with Rowena, Crowley, Sam and Lucifer, I’m thinking that was just a bit of silliness they gave us and that our “present” is the next episode. I just can’t see them touching on Christmas once the season is over and airing it when were clear into the back half of January honoring all our New Year resolutions… Ha! Then again it is Supernatural and wierder things have happened…
I think we saw what we saw in ep 9 Dean was reading up on the church murders on the computer while he and Sam were discussing the visit to the cage. Sam and Rowenna were suppose to be doing “research” with the bk of the damned but found a spell alot sooner than anyone expected. Rowenna had been away since Ep 6 but apparently had been busy during that time, we are going to see what she has been up to
I HAVE A QUSTION. __________ Why didn’t Lucifer ask who she was when he saw her standing behind Crowley. Does he not care or Did he already know. Curiosity about who she was and how he got into the visitors cage would have made him question that ?????????
I don’t think Lucifer is going to ask Sam to be a vessel Lucy knows he is fighting a up hill battle with that question It must be something else annd I think Dean may go to Skull Cemetary to open the door to hell so Sam can come out that way everything is a jumble and a guessing game this season May the best Guesser win LOL
I didn’t get the impression that those happened yet. …….and even if that was the case….how did he know another one just happened….they didn’t have any kind of computer with them, no radio, no tv…..do their phones go off like when bad weather is going to happen? did a demon come running in…boss guess what just happened? it made no sense that dean would take off….and it made even less sense how he knew to take off….
so it’s either very blatantly clumsy writing….or there’s more to it than what we saw…..
I didn’t get the impression that those happened yet. …….and even if that was the case….how did he know another one just happened….they didn’t have any kind of computer with them, no radio, no tv…..do their phones go off like when bad weather is going to happen? did a demon come running in…boss guess what just happened? it made no sense that dean would take off….and it made even less sense how he knew to take off….
so it’s either very blatantly clumsy writing….or there’s more to it than what we saw…..
and if I missed something and it did happen the way you said…than it’s more upsetting because now dean is being written as careless. I mean this is how it went down….first we’ll go to Rowena and Crowley and then we’ll split up and I’ll go off on my own to the church…..I can see his faith in Sam, but not Rowena/Crowley…..and he totally knows that Amara has a hold on him, so instead of taking backup, like we’ll go here first and then we’ll go to the church….he goes off on his own, knowing full well he can’t handle her on his own…because at this point he knows full well he can’t handle her on his own….is dean so prideful that he’s willing to risk both his and his brother’s life to avoid Sam knowing the truth? Has dean backtracked instead of growing and moving forward? I really don’t want think that..
Come to think of it, the writing actually makes them both seem careless….Sam and Dean would go in without recognizing that neither Crowley or Rowena can be trusted….most of all Rowena? Dean would leave Sam in the middle of something so big and throw caution to the wind…..putting his trust in Rowena with his brother’s life? And the plan at that moment was what>>>>.Sam i’m going to leave you here, because we mysteriously just found out about another church incident….go off on my own to not handle amara, as she’s got a bitch hold over me, while you just stay here and do nothing….wait for me to come back…now don’t come….i mean just ignore what crowley just said about her control over me….i can do this on my own…i’m dean winchester after all….and you just wait here…be good….don’t do anything til i get back…stay with the devil and the witch and play jenga….seriously folks?
then Sam forgets all his senses and suddenly desperation takes over? what made the situation so desperate? rowena’s word? are we to believe Sam just buckled under the pressure of rowena and lost all sensibility? Dean leaves the game and suddenly Sam doesn’t know how to play anymore? Does any of this even remotely seem right to anyone? Then in the description Dean calls on Cas….he doesn’t find out about Sam? what another manipulated voicemail? or does Dean not go to Sam because he doesn’t have to?
I don’t like these writers either….but this episode had such glaring what the hell moments that they are pretty hard to ignore….even though they tried to distract everyone with the lucifer/sam moment….when one’s mind settles everything else about the episode is one big giant question mark….
which is why I’m leaning towards there’s more going on here than we may think….
will hold onto that until we see Dabb’s ep….hopefully he will explain it all in a way that ties in and makes sense….;)
SugarHi – I agree that something seems to be missing and they will probably piece it together more with the next episode. Perhaps that is when we will find out what part if any Cas played in the plan. I just rewatched the ep and as far as when the boys split up, it happens right after commercial.break, there’s no discussion or logic to it. So, bad editing, something yet to be revealed or scrappy writing. I’m leaning scrappy writing. If it were anyone else who.had penned the story I’d give the benefit of the doubt but this wouldn’t be the first time the Nep Duo has written an illogical scene and then never revisited or bothered to explain and acted like it never occurred. It felt more like a let’s shoehorn in a “we need Dean to be here so that Amara and he can meet” because we’re lazy writers scene rather than allow it to occur organically.
The original info on Deans laptop was a newspaper report about a lightening strike that killed 9 at a religious rally. The church attack didn’t happen until later.
[quote]I think we saw what we saw in ep 9 Dean was reading up on the church murders on the computer while he and Sam were discussing the visit to the cage.[/quote]
Dean was reading up on the incident involving Amara frying people at the christian rally by the fountain.
[quote]Why didn’t Lucifer ask who she was when he saw her standing behind Crowley.[/quote]
Good question. Lucifer acknowledged Crowley but showed no curiosity about Rowena. Tends to give one the impression he already knew her which lends credence to the theory she made a deal with the devil to deliver Sam.
[quote] Why didn’t Lucifer ask who she was when he saw her standing behind Crowley. Does he not care or Did he already know. Curiosity about who she was and how he got into the visitors cage would have made him question that[/quote]
It is odd Jen, but what makes me uneasy is all of the speculation that Rowena and Lucy had previously known each other and that she somehow managed to make a deal with him prior to the visit to the cage. The only possible time Rowena could have met Lucy is during the few months that Lucy was walking the earth trying to find Sam and making all of his preparations to start that little old apocalypse. I cannot think of even one remotely plausible reason why he would have somehow met Rowena and established some kind of relationship. She was just another bug/human that he was hoping to squash. And how/why would Rowena have suddenly managed to contact Lucifer now? It’s starting to seem like the cage is just a slightly more secure jail cell in which the inmates can get visitors and even the odd phone call. If the show does go down this road and then attribute it to the BOTD I’m going to be really annoyed. Because then it as as though the BOTD has suddenly become the ultimate Mary Sue, as Alycat said.
Agreed. I suppose that Lucifer could have contacted Rowena during season 5, but that’s pretty much it as Lucifer was behind all those pesky seals for millennia before that and in the cage after that. Carver is not great with the retcons so I hope he’s being careful here. I have hope though, because whomever seems to be in charge of story details this year is apparently much more careful and considered than in years past. I am putting my money on Dabb. It seems to me that in some capacity he’s taken over a lot of the plotting details and it shows.
i guess they can retcon Lucifer knowing Rowena if they wanted to and find plausibility in that because of the spell he used to bind death. Lucifer would’ve gone to a witch for that, (and Rowena is the oldest and most powerful witch to date) because the boys had gone to Crowley to bind Death when Cas was the new God…..and Crowley has boasted quite often that his mother was a witch. So if they spin this around and the story goes in the direction that Luci already knows Rowena, then it could be from that….she clearly has a fangirl crush on the guy…and at the time, he was free and in Nick’s vessel. The thing about Rowena is that we know very little about Rowena…so if the writers go there, it could make sense that she has in fact met up with Luci at one time….and played off as naïve, who was in the cage….fully knowing who was in the cage.
I still think there’s more to what we saw then what we saw. 😉 What I’m kind of fanfictioning in my head is that Billie goes to dean…..tells him that Sam is trapped in the cage with luci, tells him that his lovefest with Amara is going to get his brother and himself killed and let him know that when that happens they’ll be sent to the “empty”….. in that way she is actually once again helping them both….firstly by letting dean know sam is in trouble, reminding him that Amara’s hold on him has to be dealt with and he has to tell Sam and finally….dean will also know about the empty which I still believe to be the answer to the amara problem. Any chance something like this could happen:p
I also always believed that Yed went after children who were psychic…..Lucifer when he was in the nun requested that he find a child…..a special child…..which clearly indicated that any special child, when corrupted would due just fine…after all, he could’ve just said…find sam Winchester. When Sam died, he went to Jake. All of these children were basically test subjects to see which one was the strongest, as we saw at Cold Oak.
sam’s premonitions had saved rosie……yed hadn’t visited rosie yet and when Sam met them, rosie clearly indicated that she was already special as her mother had told sam she never cried and it was as though she can read people’s thoughts…and given the fact that she was a target seems to indicate that Yed clearly saw this baby as one of the special ones….
I kind of always thought that the demon blood given to the special babies…given that there were sooo many was more of a tracking device….so that they can keep track of all the children til they came of age or until Yed/Luci was ready. The demon blood may have tweaked the powers that existed….ava admitted that the learning curve was so quick…she couldn’t believe that she started with just visions. But the demon blood only worked when the human wanted it to. It was only when the children gave up and gave in that they discovered the bad they can do….and even then were the powers bad? Ava could’ve used those powers in her favor by freeing herself….but she chose to kill instead….Sam and Andy…..they are examples of children who never became corrupted by what was possibly (andy) or was inside them(Sam)…In the end it was the kind of person that one decided they would be…when influenced by evil…..fear or faith? goodness or darkness? Yed chose Sam in error….He was looking at Sam’s training, his strength, his Daddy issues….His quest to be normal and felt that Sam is the chosen one…he’s the favorite…..
but Yed and Luci underestimated the goodness and faith and love that Sam has and always will….it’s why Yed failed….Luci failed and why Sam will always win.
I think that’s why Luci is trying to crush Sam’s faith right now. I think he’s messing with Sam and I don’t think he is responsible for the visions. I kind of think Luci is trying to break Sam ‘s spirit and crush his faith….because it’s this faith and spirit that keeps Sam strong…..I also think once again Luci is underestimating Sam and overestimating himself….which is why Sam will always beat the devil. 😉
[quote]I still think there’s more to what we saw then what we saw. 😉 What I’m kind of fanfictioning in my head is that Billie goes to dean…..tells him that Sam is trapped in the cage with luci, tells him that his lovefest with Amara is going to get his brother and himself killed and let him know that when that happens they’ll be sent to the “empty”….. in that way she is actually once again helping them both….firstly by letting dean know sam is in trouble, reminding him that Amara’s hold on him has to be dealt with and he has to tell Sam and finally….dean will also know about the empty which I still believe to be the answer to the amara problem. Any chance something like this could happen[/quote]
Now why would Billie do all that? Because she “helped” Sam by saying he was unclean in the biblical sense? We don’t know if she was just being truthful which would mean luck saved Sam. Besides, what you said doesn’t seem Reaper behavior. I could see Cas doing all that if he could.
I guess it depends on Billie’s true role in all this…..still don’t believe death is dead….and i’m kind of wondering if she might not be still working for death in every sense of the word. Not ruling her out as a Winchester ally.
This Hellatius as usual is painfull and gives you waaaayyyyyy to much time to sit and think watch and re-watch the episodes, read the discussions and think some more. I think Sugerhi you believe there is more to episode 9 than what we saw with to many gaps and more questions than answers — either extremely bad writing or more explanation next episode. I hope my reply is to the right person apology if I’m wrong
In Ep 9 the only complete scenario was Amara. She went to the park slaughtered people, then the church to do the same, met Dean took him to a lovely vista for a chat which achieved nothing then got smited by the angels – maybe. The end. When I break it down this is what I see for her and The Boys.
Sam in the forest more visions burning bush ……..gap………. in bunker talking about the cage and meeting Lucy ……….. gap……. in parking lot talking to Crowley deciding to use BOTD ………..gap
In Crowely’s lair with Rowenna (He found her quick)…………………… big gap………………………..Dean at church (many questions, how/when/why) Sam at Crowleys finding said spell for cage and Lucy phone call to Dean – Dean so rapt up in Amara, suddenly forgets how concerned he is for his brother, He really didn’t won’t this hell meeting, taken to beautiful vista with Amara for a very uninformative chat………………….Sam in hell with Lucy then in cage with Lucy ………………… Dean in park with hot dog vendor looking very perplexed How can there be so many gaps and unfinished story lines!!!!!
This is what is actually so bothersome to me, as normally I don’t pay much mind to these two writers, but unfortunately I picked the wrong time of the month to analyze. :p It’s either blatant incompetence on their part and their actual inability to write a storyline that is cohesive and makes sense….or they are just lazy writers that put no effort into uniform plotting, they simply go for the one moment that captures everyone’s attention, distracting them from the actual episode foibles and regard us the audience as utter morons who won’t notice….there I said it
No matter how you slice it, this episode is an utter mess….i liked the ep don’t get me wrong….but in actuality, it’s a mess. At the beginning of the ep, Dean was researching the murder that happened at the beginning of the show…but the murder he went to go research was the one at the church…and dean had no way of knowing about this because he was with sam, crowley and rowena at the time….so it made no sense what so ever, that during commercial break, dean ends up on the case of the church. It couldn’t have been from his research early on, as it didn’t happen yet. So big big plot hole right there.
It also made no sense not only having this information…but suddenly taking off the way he did. Dean was pretty adamant about not wanting Sam meeting up with luci. They had a pretty good back and forth going on at the beginning of the ep…and dean stuck by sam’s side asking all kinds of questions, making sure nothing can go wrong….he was pretty deep in it….then boom…commercial….and dean is gone…just leaves…leaves his brother to go on a case, he mysteriously finds out about….knowing full well it is probably amara related, knowing also full well he has no control around her…and goes solo….endangering both himself and his brother. Please tell me in what universe other than with these two writers…. this would that happen.
not only does dean leave his brother….but he gives him a phone call …don’t do anything til i get back…seriously…why didn’t dean bring sam with him, if he knew, if they knew that this church incident that they just out of nowhere found out about through osmosis involved amara. please, i need to know where the logic is…that either brother would leave the other to face the two most powerful entities…..alone…
How come when these two writers are given a script…sam and dean winchester suddenly lose brain cells? And Sam…with all that Rowena has done, he’s simply going to buckle when she claims there’s no time….what was the emergency? sam didn’t even question it….sam…mr plan b for some time now….all of the sudden his brain goes mush and he jumps when rowena speaks….she didn’t even give a reason fake or otherwise on why sam had to do it now….and sam , after everything…didn’t think to ask what the big hurry was?
Then we get the magic moment…the one awesome scene, and it was awesome…and quite distracting….of sam in the cage with luci…..and they think that we’re not going to notice the ridiculous route they had the boys take to get to this moment. Are we children, easily distracted by a toy so we don’t touch the cookie…
I hate feeling like we’re being treated like we’re clueless…this fandom is such a smart fandom…this fandom notices everything and remembers everything…and we certainly recognize a plot hole when we see one…
There it is…which is why I’m holding onto the notion that there is more to this ep than what we actually saw. I’m really holding onto Dabb making sense of what we saw in this eppy…tying it all together in a nice bow…..filling in the gaping holes….and redeeming these particular writers in my eye…. so yes…i do think there’s more to what we saw than what we saw….;)
As for Dean suddenly leaving to investigate the murders at the church I just supposed that they heard about it on their police scanner. I am not sure why the confusion. Dean and Sam talked about it. They were looking for Amara so Dean went to go investigate while Sam baby sat Rowena. Dean usually can’t sit still so it made sense to me.
But I do agree about the sudden urgency to go to the pits of Hell. That made no sense. It certainly could have been written better. But at least we got to the cell and the fantastic exchange between Sam and Lucifer.
I’m not sure why Sam was on board with Dean going off to investigate another Amara related mass death by himself anyway. Hadn’t he JUST heard from Crowley about how Dean seemed to have no control over himself when he was near her? Not only does he say absolutely nothing at the time, does not even mention it later, but apparently is on board with Dean going off to possibly run into Amara all on his own? Yeah…. this is the kind of thing that this writing team is always doing, creating these head scratching scenarios and basically hoping that none of us will notice. It’s like the clumsy, illogical scenario of Charlie’s death; lets forget entirely that Charlie is a ninja now and fought off Eldon Styne’s more competent and fully healthy brother all by herself, but suddenly couldn’t take on a one armed, half dead moron by herself. And lets forget entirely that Cas RESURRECTS PEOPLE on a regular basis and could have easily been called in to resurrect Charlie. “Maybe the fans won’t notice these plot holes that you could drive a truck though…..” Yeah…guess what? We noticed.
Remember Lily killed by touch (heart attacks?) and that one guy that Gorden offed in the parking lot who was seeing a psychiatrist could electrocute by touch as well and by his own admission was getting worse/seeing YED. So there’s at least two that had powers that were a little less than warm and fuzzy. 🙂
I had put into another comment that Lilly, Eva, Max, and Scott all succumbed to insanity of a sort because of the demon blood. Jake seemed pretty stable which is why I think Yellow Eyes thought he would work even if he wasn’t Sam. Andy managed to stay Andy and so did Sam. It made me think that there was a high rate of the demon blood making the special kids insane which is why it was taking so long to find someone and why Sam was such a good option… he was able to balance his powers with the corrupting influence of the demon blood without loosing his mind.
Ah! Not the Book of the Damned MarySue aka BOTDMS!!!! Anything but that! I’ll even accept the horrors of the “Comfy Chair” and you can even poke me with the “Soft Cushions”!!!
i can’t make sense out of that. dean believes he killed death so there is noone to go to to reap Amara or even make a deal. dean supposedly doesn’t know about billie, so i can only assume for some reason he was calling on a reaper…any reaper….the question would be why? any old reaper doesn’t have the juice to stop Amara, so i don’t see dean going to a reaper for that reason…..and it appears that he’s at stull cemetery….so why go back there? the only thing there is the location of the hole where the cage is……
so does dean find out about sam and call on a reaper for help in trying to save him?
these synopses are always very misleading and half assed. they give you a nugget of truth …just enough to speculate and get aggravated…..but then it turns out to be so very different. Lucifer might make Sam an offer, but nowhere in this description does it say that Sam accepts an offer from Luci….
i still think this eppy and the promo are extremely wonky and i’m convinced that there is more going on than what we saw…..it most definitely helps me sleep at night. 😀
Reapers can get you to Purgatory which leads to a back door to hell.
Yeah… and when Sam was there last he left the back door open too.. so theoretically Billie could take Dean and waltz right in, oh and stop to have tea with Benny while he’s at it. :p
Opps, double post! 😮
damn double post….sorry:o
why does dean need the back door to hell? that goes back to him knowing sam’s in trouble don’t ya think? still, why does he need to go through a back door when he has access to crowley? unless the boys do have a plan b…..
i think this episode leads to more questions than answers and i think a lot of what happened is pretty ooc for sam and dean…..i liked the episode i did….but after all the excitement of sam and lucifer in the cage….having hellatus time to actually aborb the episode when calm and less excited….i found alot of holes. I don’t think sam and dean separating at the moment they did makes any sense…not only in that they separated, but how they got the information regarding the church. even given that they had previous info about these church murders..i still can’t seem to come to terms that sam and dean decided to split up when they did….there’s no way the boys could’ve heard about the most recent kill as they were with crowley and rowena…..and even if i gloss over that little vital piece of missing info i still can’t get passed the fact that dean would skip out on sam in the middle of this particular mission….with a simple…don’t do anything til i get back….and please if anyone has a reasonable answer….why would dean go alone anyway….why not postpone what they were doing and both go then come back to dealing with sam’s visions and his meeting with luci. dean knows full well at this point, he cannot control himself around amara….so really why go solo …..why not bring sam, the one voice that trumps all.
I made the mistake of analyzing the episode…i know i should just take it for what it is…but too late….and in analyzing the entire scenario, it boils down to these two writers making dean and sam look like amatures instead of the smart, experienced hunters that they are….. this bothers me to no end….which is why I cannot help but hold onto the notion that there is more to this ep than what we saw….that sam and dean are smarter than they were made to appear in this ep and they know better and would have a plan b in play…..
i will believe in this to keep myself from getting annoyed at what i still find to be an enjoyable episode. I just hope the second half proves me right…or at least makes up for the folly I found in this ep.
[quote]why does dean need the back door to hell? that goes back to him knowing sam’s in trouble don’t ya think? still, why does he need to go through a back door when he has access to crowley?[/quote]Well your question was why does Dean need a reaper and that would be one reason. There actually isn’t any fundamental reason why Crowley should help Dean unless it directly benefits Crowley. And Lucifer owing you a favor (even if only to someone on your side instead of you directly) is probably better than a Winchester owing you one.
I still would prefer for Sam to solve his own problems and save himself but since we have a 3 line synopsis and a 30 second teaser to judge from anything could happen. However it looks very much like the last episode was WYSIWYG.
why does dean need the back door to hell? that goes back to him knowing sam’s in trouble don’t ya think? still, why does he need to go through a back door when he has access to crowley? unless the boys do have a plan b…..
i think this episode leads to more questions than answers and i think a lot of what happened is pretty ooc for sam and dean…..i liked the episode i did….but after all the excitement of sam and lucifer in the cage….having hellatus time to actually absorb the episode when calm and less excited….i found a lot of holes. I don’t think sam and dean separating at the moment they did makes any sense…not only in that they separated, but how they got the information regarding the church. even given that they had previous info about these church murders..i still can’t seem to come to terms that sam and dean decided to split up when they did….there’s no way the boys could’ve heard about the most recent kill as they were with crowley and rowena…..and even if i gloss over that little vital piece of missing info i still can’t get passed the fact that dean would skip out on sam in the middle of this particular mission….with a simple…don’t do anything til i get back….and please if anyone has a reasonable answer….why would dean go alone anyway….why not postpone what they were doing and both go then come back to dealing with sam’s visions and his meeting with luci. dean knows full well at this point, he cannot control himself around amara….so really why go solo …..why not bring sam, the one voice that trumps all.
I made the mistake of analyzing the episode…i know i should just take it for what it is…but too late….and in analyzing the entire scenario, it boils down to these two writers making dean and sam look like a couple of rookies instead of the smart, experienced hunters that they are….. this bothers me to no end….which is why I cannot help but hold onto the notion that there is more to this ep than what we saw….that sam and dean are smarter than they were made to appear in this ep and they know better and would have a plan b in play…..
i will believe in this to keep myself from getting annoyed at what i still find to be an enjoyable episode. I just hope the second half proves me right…or at least makes up for the folly I found in this ep.
Maybe Dean can’t get hold of Crowley so contacts a “rogue reaper” to help him get to Sam. Assuming the rogue would know…
so maybe that’s how he ends up in contact with Billie instead? I know, I’m reaching. And I truly never want to revisit the whole “rogue reaper” thing ever again, so forget what I just wrote. Act as if you are on a jury and were asked to ignore everything you just heard. Disregard as it is irrelevant to the case… 😉
Crap, I really need to learn to read ahead before making my comments… sorry if I repeated others observations. 😉
Reading everyone’s comments, the consensus seems to be that we all want Sam to rescue himself. Unfortunately, nine episodes of one season of Sam being acknowledged as an individual character and being the smart, resourceful guy that we know he is, has not rid me of my PTSD of the many seasons that we’ve had of them blowing a great story by doing something stupid or retconning. So, I’m cautiously optimistic and trying not to panic that my good vibes for season 11 are going to be flushed down the toilet.
[quote]my PTSD of the many seasons that we’ve had of them blowing a great story by doing something stupid or retconning.[/quote]
I believe the technical term for the PTSD you’re referring to is “character assassination of Sam Winchester PTSD,” or CASWPTSD, which has afflicted an increasing number of viewers since S8. I myself am currently in remission due to my ongoing treatment, which consists of a nice series of episodes which feature a Sam who is easily recognizable as the character I originally fell in love with.
All kidding aside, with each new episode I’ve felt apprehensive that the rug will be yanked out from under me, and then overjoyed that the “rehabilitation” of Sam has continued for another episode. It’s starting to seem too good to be true! If it continues, and if the overall quality of the episodes and plotting continues, this season could end up being one of my 3 or 4 favorites. Yeah I know, I’m getting a bit ahead of myself here. But damn, it just feels so GOOD!
The rehabilitation of Sam does feel good. I still don’t trust it will continue, however. I hope it will, but they pulled the rug out from under me too many times.
I’m there with you guys. Go Sam be the strong, intelligent, sweet, beautiful, gorgeous, sexy, :o:o Oh sorry yes go Sam and PLEASE writers don’t stuff it up. ??????:(:(:(:(
Amen Padaleski. Prayer circle for Sam’s story to continue to be awesome. Say it with me now……..
I’m in prayer circle Praying
*prays for evil Sam* :p
I’m with you sisters! Lord, hear our prayers!
Jen, you forgot “intellectual, sensitive, funny, and unbelievably hot.” 🙂
Yes…! As much as I am enjoying this seemingly miraculous and somewhat out of the blue change in the approach to Sam as a character and reveling in the re-appearance of the man I feel in love with the first time I saw this show, I am eyeing that bus out of the corner of my eye. It’s engine is still running…….
E, I don’t know why but every time you refer to that bus with Sam’s name on it I crack up. Maybe it’s finally run out of gas.:D
We could puncture all it’s tires maybe……….?