Let’s Speculate: Supernatural 10.08 “Hibbing 911”
Summary:Â This awesomesauce episode was written by Jenny Klein and features the return of two favorite female characters, Jody Mills and Donna Hanscum from last yearâs âThe Purge.â
The episode is a classic Monster of the Week. It begins with a death in an alley, as many motws are wont to do, and we cut to the Minnesota/Dakota Sheriff convention. Jody Mills shows up and as always, Kim Rhodes hits it out of the park. Soon we see Sheriff Donna Hanscum and the intrigue begins. As we learn early on, a body was found in the alley, eaten to the bone. Jody contacts the boys, who are back at the bunker researching the Mark. They are hitting dead ends.
Sam asks Jody if she needs them and she says no. Sam resists going when Dean suggests they head out anyway. Then, Dean throws some puppy dog eyes at Sam when he gets off the phone with Jody and they head towards Hibbing, Minnesota. Dean wins.
Back in Hibbing as Jody and Donna form an odd partnership we find out that Jody is still taking care of Alex, the human vampire child, what Iâd like to call a huvamp. Sheâs being a typical teenager. We also meet Doug, Donnaâs ex, and heâs a real ass. I mean like a real ass. We see Donna charm the local coroner and Jody become a female version of grumpy Dean. Itâs magical, yâall. It really is.
Back at the lodge, the boys show up and they donât want to let Donna know about supernatural stuff so Jody distracts her while the Winchesters investigate. Jody and Donna wander through the gear show. Doug shows up and is being an ass to Donna again. Jody steps in and defends her; however, Donna tells her to back off. We see flashbacks to Jodyâs husband, back in season five! (my god the show has a memory all of a sudden) and we get a nice bonding moment.
The investigation unfolds and Donna comes across the Hibbing Sheriff hovering over a dead body and oops, heâs got vamp teeth. Now we know whatâs killing people in town! Jody informs Donna about the supernatural and they investigate the sheriffâs room. They encounter the Winchesters and the four of them go to a farm outside of town. They find the vampire there and then run into what really is a snout to tail hipster nest of vampires, the alpha female being the one that Jody gave money to at the very beginningâŚto get food. Poor Jody is all about the vampires these days.
After another traumatic brain injury for Sam and a knockout for Dean, they are all bondaged up by the vamps and about to be a late night snack when Donna’s ingenious use of her broken glasses HELPS TO SAVE THE DAY. And this is why I will love this episode forever. Strong female characters who are equal in strength and intelligence to the Winchesters? That’s my kink. Not even gonna lie.Â
The episode concludes with a heart to heart between the boys about the MarkâŚwhich will be returning again soon and Jody agrees to mentor Donna in the ways of monsters and other things that go bump in the night.
That was a fantastic episodeâŚ.AN A+ for Jenny Klein! Girlpower!!! *fist bump*
Questions:
What do you think the mark will do now that Dean is worried about it?
Do you think Donna will become like JodyâŚhunting things, saving people?
Do you think hipster vampires would really exist? I think notâŚ..
How awesome was Jody and Donna together?! We need a spinoff….Come on, CW. Do this for us.Â
So what are your thoughts, reactions, feelings? Leave them here!Â
I enjoyed this episode a lot :). Seriously i love this season so far!
Another Great episode, I’m really enjoying Season 10 too đ Jody and Donna were great together & they cracked me up. Yes, I think Donna will be like Jody now, she’s awesome! I think Dean lied to Sam and that the Mark is starting to really bother him now. Dean grabbed his arm like he did last season and I really hope Sam sees thru his B.S.
Wow⌠Maybe itâs time that they announce when the final season of [i] Supernatural [/i] is. It seems that this episode had a minimal amount of Sam and Dean. Jensen and Jared might manage to work really hard for one last season though so the show could finish strong.
I think itâs okay to do episodes that concentrate on side-characters once in a while but I think this episode took a long time to get really started let alone the action. And when Sam and Dean were on-screen, there wasnât much new insight into the characters.
Samâs reaction to Jodyâs joke about Alex being the head cheerleader was cute. However, I donât think this episode deepened Sam and Jodyâs friendship all that much.
Some fans complained that Sam hasnât done enough research on Deanâs behalf so I liked that Dean wanted to do something more useful than continue trying to find information about the mark at the Bunker.
I liked the moment when Sam and Dean arrived at the sheriffsâ retreat. They were a bit awkward but their presence commands respect from others who think they are fellow officers.
Dean seemed a little weird when the young cop gave him attitude. Maybe the mark of Cain makes Dean want to be the top dog. I thought Deanâs line, [i] â— You know, someone who is not afraid to talk shop with the big boys back in DC —â [/i] was really bad. The young cop looked like he could be related to Jensen.
I was not too keen on the subplot about Doug/fat-shaming.
Itâs interesting that Dean doesnât like the idea of Sam talking about him to a friend like Jody even though Dean had been in really bad shape.
The tubes of sun block were a nice reference to vampirism. However, Iâm not so sure it was wise to turn vampires into monsters who could be real meat-eaters.
I thought it was good that the girl in the beginning of the episode turned out to be part of the case because my first reaction had been that she looked too made-up to be begging for money. Yet again there was way too much monologuing from the monster of the week. Instead of killing, the monsters like to stand around. The girlâs hippie act was so bad that it made me cringe.
I guess the show is trying to go somewhere with the monster theme.
PS. Bookdal, I think Alex is just human.
with respect, it seems to me that you always have something to say about sam’s airtime in every comment i see from you its about that. Last week we couldn’t spend a lot of time with sam and dean because there was 3 different story lines going on and this episode was focused around Jody and Donna but besides that the other episodes have focused on Sam and Dean. In past season, there has been many episodes focusing on the guess star so this is nothing new. This doesn’t mean the supernatural needs to put an end date when there is one episode focused on a loved character return.
[quote] with respect, it seems to me that you always have something to say about sam’s airtime in every comment i see from you its about that. [/quote]
I donât think thatâs a fair assessment but of course I donât know what comments of mine you have read.
In my opinion, this episode was so Winchester-lite that it hurt the characters. Sam didnât do or say anything notable. I would have wanted to learn more about Sam and Jodyâs relationship instead of having to draw my own conclusions based on just a couple of lines. Dean had more to work with in this episode because he still has an on-going storyline. So Dean got the fight scene, however, it didnât amount to much. At least they could have given a stronger ending to the episode because Sam and Dean were in the scene. I donât think that Dean touching his arm etc. was great foreshadowing and the episode didnât end on a particularly brotherly note either.
Was not it established that ANNIE/ALEX
was changed back to human…..
I think so. Alex hadnât drunk human blood so the cure worked.
I’ve been working on a piece that basically outlines that, it’s time for Supernatural to plan it’s end game. The storylines are tired and they don’t know what to do with any of their main characters, including Sam, Dean, Crowley and Castiel. I don’t think these writers are even trying anymore. The spark is gone and they need something to energize them. Despite that I liked the story, but it was super slow and lost my interest at points. I won’t be sharing that piece on this site though. I’ll have it on TV For the Rest of Us or somewhere else that wants to publish it during hiatus. Honest dialogue about the show is too sensitive a topic here.
It just seems like they are
NOT using their 4 main
characters. J2 and M2
Amen, Alice.
I’d like to read that piece.
This is not the site it used to be.
So good to see you again! I have missed your insights. Feel free to share them on my review that I just posted. I do bring up the Sam issue, although it’s really just a poor writing issue in general.
Why not post it on your own site? There are plenty of us who don’t want to see the show end but there are probably just as many that want it to end sooner rather than later. I think all of us would like to see the quality rise. I don’t see any reason why any of us here can’t read some harsh truths or at least opinions. I am enjoying the heck out of this season but there are many who aren’t. Why not speak for them? I can take it.
I agree Cheryl. I don’t always agree with some reviews or posts but it is everybody’s right to feel how they feel and I am fine with that.
I can give you an honest answer if you send me an email. đ
Alice – I think you should post it here; if people want to throw a shit fit, let them. My thoughts have been similar; the last couple of episodes have been okay but nothing is really moving forward anymore; Crowley has even gotten boring, and that’s tough to do. The simple truth is the show isn’t the same without Sam and Dean more involved; I realize the actors need more time off, and they are trying to turn it in to more of an ensemble show, but that isn’t working IMO.
I was waiting for your wisdom, sir.
I agree with this. Ensemble casts work for some shows, but the Winchesters [b]are[/b] the show on SPN. Nothing is moving forward, because there is no Winchester story to move forward. Since DDean was cured, all the Winchesters have done is show up in other characters’ stories that they have no stake in. They come, they hunt, they leave, they gain nothing, they learn nothing.
It would probably help a lot if the Js and the writers knew that they have a set amount of episodes left to tell the Winchestersâ story. Go hard or go home.
I’ll bet they have an end game in mind. And I think that if you ask the J’s and anyone else associated with the show they probably think they are working as hard as they can. After listening to Travis Arron Wade talking about his experience working on the show I was impressed, as was he at how enthusiastic they all still are and how dedicated everyone still is to trying to put out the best show they can. Maybe the show doesn’t work for everyone but I never doubt for a moment that the J’s, Carver, Singer, all of the crew aren’t still just as passionate about the show as they have ever been. At CC all involved were on board for going a few more seasons. So I am sure there is an ending floating around in someone’s brain. But until then I will never doubt the dedication these guys have to the show and it’s fans.
I donât think itâs so much about them knowing the endgame but them knowing that they have only an X amount of episodes to do. That way, they might be motivated to allow the viewers to follow the two brothersâ story like in the earlier seasons.
I’m not sure what the difference is between endgame and X amount of episodes but the reality is that Jared and Jensen aren’t going to be in every scene of every episode like they were in the earlier seasons. They have given everything they have to give and then some for going on 10 years. As I said the show may not be working for everyone right now and I wish as well it was only the J’s and no one else. But unfortunately this is the formula that Carver and company is stuck with. I think they are doing the best they can and coming up with as good of a product as is possible. I for one am enjoying this season so far. I think that everyone especially the J’s are just as dedicated to the show as ever. Maybe the writing could be tighter but putting a deadline on the show wouldn’t change that.
At this point, having an ending in mind seems like itâd be more about them knowing how they want the characters to be when itâs time to stop telling their story. But knowing when the last season will be would give the mind something concrete to work towards. The Js might be willing to work more if they knew they were really leaving their legacy. Quality vs. quantity.
Both Jared and Jensen have repeatedly stated that if the quality of the show diminishes (in their eyes), their characters become something that they were never supposed to be or that the fans stop loving the show then they will know it is time to quit. As far as I can tell they don’t feel that way yet. As far as leaving a legacy well I think they have accomplished something that very few shows accomplish. They have given me personally 9+ years of the most fascinating show I have ever watched. I have never been involved in a fandom before and by all accounts this fandom is rivaled by no other. Their conventions from what I understand surpass Star Trek and sell out at lightening speed (unfortunately for me with SF only minutes away and I can’t go). I think that the J’s and everyone involved with the show can be proud of what they have accomplished and the fact that they know that it was the fans that helped make this show happen makes it seem like we are all in this together. I am so happy to have found this show and this website, all of the friends I have made, the fact that I am talking to you right now, that I am still trying to get tickets to the con, all things that I would have never thought possible just a few years ago. Do I sound like a hopeless fangirl that doesn’t care about quality? Well I’m not and I do. But I do appreciate what the show has done under impossible circumstances with almost no support from it’s own network. Year after year they have put out a product that has remained successful no matter what the obstacles were. What they have given to their fans, that is their legacy. They should be proud whether the show ends this year or in 3 years. It has been quite a ride.
I am in til the end.
Nice post Cheryl, that’s how I feel as well.:)
I canât help but wonder would they really be happy if they found out that season 10 was the last season and episodes like [i] Hibbing, 911 [/i] were what they went out with? I think they have it in them to deliver more than this.
If you read Jensen’s tweets he seemed pretty proud of this episode. I think from what I have read around other sites this episode was positively received by most critics. It wasn’t the most compelling episode ever but it wasn’t Bloodlines or Route 666 or Bugs either. Remember we are only 8 episodes into a 23 episode season. We have a long way to go yet.
Donna is a great character. Love those YOU BETCHA’s :p
‘Transgendered’ a term used over 50 years ago….
MUSIC this season is Stellar đ
Cute episode. Donna could be the 2nd
spin off, not the first. JMO
STUFF YOU DEAN
WHAT THE CUSS
:o:)
I really enjoyed this episode too, though I too wondered why vampires would eat meat down to the bone. But I’m not one to analyze these things too deeply; I’d rather sit back and enjoy the episode than dissect it! đ
I didn’t mind the reduced screen time for Jared and Jensen if it meant more time with entertaining characters like Jody and Donna. And let’s face it, the boys were definitely on screen a lot more than they were in ‘Bitten’, which had far less likeable characters (though I’m one of those few who enjoyed that episode as well).
Can’t wait for next week!
Loved this episode from beginning to end. Very entertaining. My favorite bit was the part where Dean says earnestly that the badge means something and Sam says I made it at Kinko’s. I also really liked the way they handled Donna and Jody’s relationship, they took a little time to let it unfold from a rocky start. I was hoping to get a creepy looking monster instead of vampires AGAIN but I will let that slide because the overall episode was so good. As for Dean the MoC, and the blade, the promo speaks for itself. Yowzer!! Buckle up.
I enjoyed every moment of this episode. Love Donna and great to see her and Jody bonding. Don’t care about the vampire canon. It’s apparent that the JC years will always screw with canon so not going to fuss about it, just enjoy the ride because the episode was great otherwise. As for what is coming next week……WOW!
I very rarely feel compelled to comment here, but I was left feeling seriously twitchy about the ‘He Wolf, She Wolf’ dialogue at the beginning of the episode. I know that the character of Dean can be a tad insensitive at times, but I wondered that the writers, looking for something trivial with which to compare the Mark of Cain, landed on the subject of transgenderism. That in itself would have been close to insensitive, but then adding that it was “weird” left a nasty taste. If I’ve missed an good reason why this particular comparison was chosen, I’d be really happy to let my concerns go. I don’t want to come across as one of those people who will always try and find a reason to complain or as someone who thinks that they’re entitled to go through life without being offended, but I just can’t get it out of my head.
There were so many positive things about this episode. Having two, strong, independant, capable women in the episode was fantastic, but the scene in the MOL bunker rather spoiled my enjoyment.
I will be rewatching later, but as for that dialogue, I didn’t think much of it at all. I pretty much based it on whether they were dealing with a he or a she, them not knowing for sure, dean simply referred to it as either a she wolf or a he wolf…whichever the case may be. I saw nothing sinister or even insensitive in that dialogue, but yet I rarely do. đ
Yeah,
I saw it too more like that anything else than information about MoC was useless to Dean. It could have been many number of things really.
I saw nothing in that sentence either.
– Lilah
This episode was okay; chemistry was good between the two sheriffs but overall it felt a little flat. Still not on board with vampires eating people, hipsters or not. The show has a lot of lore built up around vampires so this change/retcon didn’t make a lot of sense to me. The parallels between the vampire sheriff living a “normal” life as part of society, and Dean finding a way to live with the MoC were anvilicious. Was a little unclear about the ending, where Dean “came clean”; did Sam think Dean was full of shit and lying to both of them, or did he buy it? And, thanks to this review, I now know Sam’s S10 “arc” – he writing a book – “How to Live the Hunter’s Life with Traumatic Brain Injury” đ
I hated the episode. Would give it a 2: one for “The Weight” and one for the beautiful headlight coming on shot at the end, combined with Dean telling Sam to be proud of the fake badge. The episode was slow, the dialogue not cute or funny, and all the Sheriff’s men looked like a bunch of dummies so that the two ladies could shine.
I do like Jodi Mills and Donna as characters, but I do not like that an episode was dedicated to them and their very female ‘problems;’ weight, teenage kids, ex’s, blah, blah, blah. Since the DDean story ended, the Winchesters have done nothing but take little road trips to support other characters’ stories, and the two characters have been nothing more than regulars on the show. They have nothing at stake this season, we are learning nothing about their characters, and they have no story that I, as a viewer, can interact with. I can honestly say that I was not entertained at all with this one.
I liked this episode and enjoyed it much more than last week’s. this ep I will give a second watch:D.
I actually found this episode to be quite touching in many ways. I’ve seen a lot of complaints that sam has no one to confide in, but although we didn’t get it onscreen, I think it’s quite wonderful knowing that sam, when he really needs to, confides in jody. based on what she said to sam when they spoke on the phone, and more important how comfortable and familiar that call seemed and add in dean’s comment to jody about her and sam passing notes in class, show pretty much has made it clear that sam and jody were in contact with ea. other when sam was looking for dean. I was also under the impression that he may have contacted her more than once. I love the bond that sam and jody share and I love the comfort level between them, it’s apparent in every scene they share together. đ
I liked that the boys were actively searching now for lore, but given that we’re talking cain and abel here, I wouldn’t think there would be much written down. given that, it kind of tingles my toes because the option for them really at the moment is finding cain….and I liked that character and I look forward to seeing him again….I feel like we will:).
I really enjoyed the blooming friendship between jody and sheriff donna. I do enjoy seeing a strong female character and I really enjoyed the fact that they both survived yet another episode:p:D. I always look forward to seeing jody and now if ever sheriff donna makes a return, I would enjoy seeing her again as well. I like that her character is quirky in that fargo kinda way, yet she’s not a caricature. she’s actually quite bright and thinks on her feet. I feel as though both she and jody are an asset to the hunter world.
this was a light eppy for the boys true, but I liked the way the boys were involved with the case instead of like it was last week with all these stories being told at once. jody and donna were entertaining and able to hold one’s interest until they intermingled and while they intermingled with the boys. the episode flowed well and I didn’t feel at all shortchanged. jmo of course. đ
I did enjoy all the brother moments. It tickles me to no end to see them back to being the sam and dean of early seasons….and i’m not referring to the fighting because brothers fight…there has never been a shortage of brotherly love, I am referring to the boys focusing on ea. other and individuals instead of all of the end of the world stuff. i’m not much for myth arc…. l like the personal one on one stories. đ
as for the end. I think dean is lying to both himself and sam and he’s not very convincing on either count. my personal opinion, when dean first killed it was overkill. he was ravenous. it was like watching a man who hasn’t eaten in weeks take in food for the first time. the second time he killed there was a bit more control, but yet dean still felt the need to explain himself. dean doesn’t usually find the need to explain his kills. here, once again we see dean kill again and all seems pretty routine, seems being the operative word here. he was quite calm this time around, pretty normal I would say. there were no warning bells with this kill. he didn’t seem out of sorts… I my humble opinion, there was a warning bell and a very loud one……once again, after a kill dean felt the need to explain himself, even when sam doesn’t say anything. The way I see it, I think the calmer dean acts after a kill, the more telling it is that he’s not alright, not at all. the mark is being fed after all, it’s satisfied, so unlike dean’s first kill, when the mark was starving for a kill, now the mark is being fed when it’s hungry. the way is see it, a serene dean after a kill is worse than a ravenous one. ……I think dean is totally aware of this change in him, hence the arm grabbing as our little clue and that is why he is compelled to lie to sam every time he makes a kill. thing is, I don’t think either brother is buying it….which is a good thing. đ
based on what we saw in the promo….think a lot of what we saw could be flashbacks or nightmares. do think it’s quite telling that dean went to cas though, reminded me a lot of season 2’s playthings. after all given dean’s condition not too long ago, I think sam made it quite clear that he’s not the one dean can count on if things go awry….:D….and I love that….I love that dean knows sam loves him so much so that dean has to go to cas to make his request because he knows sam won’t do it. the promo was was my favorite part of tonite’s eppy. đ
[quote]I’ve seen a lot of complaints that sam has no one to confide in, but although [b]we didn’t get it onscreen[/b], I think it’s quite wonderful knowing that sam, when he really needs to, confides in jody.[/quote]
Hi nappi⌠I think you’ve hit the nail on the head for me here, but probably not in the way you meant to. You said it: they didn’t show Sam connecting with Jody on screen. And that, to me, is the lions share of the main problem regarding Sam as a character, we never get anything Sam does on screen any more, not since Carver took over. His story has gone from being in the background to being referred to and never shown. And since they do that SO MUCH these days then it kind of negates the fact that it happened at all IMO, because I now know that we will never see it and the repercussions of what he might have gone through will never affect what happens ON screen. Sam talks to Jody off screen; Sam is the bigger monster than Dean off screen, Sam has a relationship with Amelia off screen, Sam is researching the MoC off screen. Sam went with Cas to find Dean and was injured off screen. It’s ALL off screen; Sam entire show life is off screen to the point that none of it means anything and it might as well have not even happened. We never see it and nothing ever comes of it, so it didn’t happen IMO. I’ve basically come to the conclusion that Sam is no longer even on this show in any real way; he’s a 6 foot 5 inch prop in a suit and tie. He barely even had any lines in this episode and contributed absolutely nothing; he didn’t figure anything out, his knowledge wasn’t used, he didn’t get free when they were tied up and participate in the kill (although watching Donna kill hipster girl vamp was awesome!), he excused himself from the scene again so that Dean could bond with Jody. The fact that we learned that he talked to Jody about Dean means nothing because nothing came of it. Name me ONE TIME when Dean has had large sections of his arc happen off screen? Never is when. Even when Dean is sitting around doing nothing but feeling sorry for himself its front and center. And now Sam has accepted Dean’s bullshit about feeling “normal” and being “OK” after the vamp kill. There was absolutely zero indication that Sam was suspicious, so I can only conclude that he believed Dean. So now he doesn’t even need to worry any more (which is all he has been doing since episode 3) because Dean’s OK and Sam showed no sign that he didn’t believe that. I think Jared should just retire to Austin raise his family and be done with it, they could pretty much insert found footage of Sam into the remaining episodes of season 10 and no one would even know that he wasn’t even there any more. I know that you tend to be more optimistic about the show then I do, but I’ve pretty much given up by this point. And I see that almost all the other staunch Sam defenders have too, they almost never comment here any more.
“…staunch Sam defenders….almost never comment here any more”
That’s because there’s not much point, E. We’re not welcome, and I’m tired of HAVING to defend my views, when every comment turns into a “then why do you watch” or “we’ve heard that before so stop” fest
I’m enjoying this season more than the last 2, but the bar is low. And if they continue to use Sam as nothing more than Dean’s shadow this season….. well, I’ve said it before. đ
I agree with Alice. They need a plan. I’ve heard too often that Singer and Carver seem to let the episodes guide themselves. If it’s time to plan the end, then plan it well, and let the brothers go out on a strong high note!
I agree with E and st50. There’s no point in commenting any longer. When you can only comment in the bitter threads without being attacked what’s the point. Personally, I’d just as soon Jared spent time with his family rather than being a prop for Dean’s show.
I must ask……why is Sam in need of ‘staunch defenders’?
Is this not a website with reviews of a TV show, based on episodes? And does that not lead to discussion and debate? How does that turn into ‘must defend a character’?
Now, I do plead guilty to skimming over some comments, but I do enjoy reading various opinions and the differing subject matter when the focus is on the; writing, plot, timing, acting, directing, action, drama, suspense, storyline and characters.
To the contributors and moderators of this site: I enjoy reading your reviews and appreciate the time you dedicate to watching the show to do so. Whether you appreciate or criticize, you give me an insight to the show/episode I wouldn’t otherwise see.
And yes, I for one, would love to see a season 11 and beyond.
Shay,
I just wrote a long and involved answer to this.
Then I realized that there was really no point. Sorry.
Bottom line, I guess….. That’s a DAMN GOOD QUESTION….. and I direct you to the archives to find your own answer.
I enjoy various opinions and good debate as well. And I miss it here. It’s a shame.
I never said Sam was in need of staunch defenders. You must not have read my post.
I miss Tim.After a post of Tim’s was deleted I did not see her/him again.At least You, Sharon and percysowner are there regularly (sometimes lala2 and st50).I wanted to comment on the comment by Lilah and the others but like they see it as a broken record I see theirs as “stepford comments” where every episode is a “masterpiece”.Well, If the part where I say they tell that every episode is masterpiece is an exaggeration on my part …well even we never said we wanted an episode where we have sam talking on phone for 42 odd mins.
If the show goes on like it is going on now it will go out with a whimper.
you mean Tim the Enchanter? I miss Tim’s comments – always entertaining and insightful.
Yes.Tim’s comments were absolute delight
AnonymousN – just curious if Tim the Enchanter deleted their own comments, or did someone else delete them? I had a strange incident a few months back; hadn’t been on the site for a week or so, went to logon and the password didn’t work – didn’t think anything of it and reset the password. But then I noticed a bunch of my comments had been deleted – they were still there, just blanked out. I didn’t think the comments were offensive or removed by a site moderator, otherwise I figured someone would email me to tone it down or some sort of admonition in the comments. Oh well, shame on me for using a weak password đ
It was deleted by the administrator … I dont remember the reason.
Actually, that post was restored. It was removed at the time because there were multiple complaints about it. After review though, I restored it with one sentence missing. Sadly (and very regrettably), it resulted in Tim leaving the site. Not the intent. Tim is welcome back any time. The post can be found here:
https://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/article-archives/season-nine/18557-let-s-speculate-supernatural-9×23-do-you-believe-in-miracles
Perhaps I need to start a Season Ten Bitterness Thread until I can get the new discussion page running. Sounds like we need one ASAP.
I love this site and
SPN and NO ONE will ever change
my mind nor make me go away.
Ban me if you must, but I love this
wacked up fandom. I take all, with grains
of salt, and it is FICTION. Fiction that I happen
to love. SO LET IT BE WRITTEN, SO LET IT BE DONE.
You will never be banned Miss Wilma! I’d rather shut the site down then disallow your posts. It will be written, it will be done.
:):D:o:p;)
just read Tim’s post; must have missed it before it was removed. That was epic đ those are the kind of posts I love, whether I agree with them or not
Honestly, I was okay with it. It did have a lot of great points. But the one paragraph was enough to send Dean fans into a tizzy. That’s the double edged sword of moderator, damned if you do, damned if you don’t. This season, it’s been mostly don’t for me. I hardly moderate anymore. I just don’t have the energy!
“Perhaps I need to start a Season Ten Bitterness Thread until I can get the new discussion page running. Sounds like we need one ASAP.”
Since you’ve asked for input, Alice:
The problem I had with those Bitterness Threads (and the final straw for me here) – was being followed there by the “well then why are you watching” “your negativity upsets me” commentors. It’s still not a safe place to post opinions contrary to those of the “everything is goodness and light as long as the show is still on the air” group.
Once the majority of my posts seemed to have an air of “fighting back”, it was time to remove myself.
Aggressive and defensive comments are not debate, and I found it a very hard line to pull back from once there. Still do.
To be honest, even I’m horribly discouraged by the loss of the discussion atmosphere we used to have on this site. Even I feel like I’m not allowed to speak my mind in the comments! I’m with all of you, what’s the point? We are working to fix that. I have a whole new discussion area coming. I’ve got some new forum software that I’m trying to implement, but we have a major site upgrade coming in the next week or two that must be done first. Beware, a whole new WFB look is coming too. Once I get that discussion page going, we can run free form topics and anyone will be allowed to speak their mind about anything (the rule of respect is still a must). Anyone can start a topic too. This would be a far better place to have discussions than in the comments of articles. A lot of people come to the articles now and just want to discuss the episode. I don’t blame them. That’s why a discussion area is sorely needed. I should have had one ages ago. So those of you itching to talk about Sam will have a welcome place here very soon. I’ll likely be joining you! As yes, Tim is welcome back any time.
I haven’t been here since the beginning but I have been here for years now. Yes there were some great discussions and I miss them. But for as long as I can recall there has always been occasional flare-ups and you used to jump all over us to keep it respectful and civil . Now it shouldn’t be necessary, we are all adults but it did remind us to stow the attitude sometimes. Frankly ALL of us are too damn sensitive and defensive sometimes. I have seen it on all sides. Not just a select few. I have been involved in or have followed a lot of conversations here over the years and we have all had our moments when we over reacted. We tend to say things like we were “attacked” or “ganged” up on when really it is just some people disagreeing with us. So what? If we could just see each other as people instead of adversaries we would get along a lot better. If we could just remember we are talking about a fictional show and fictional characters (not family members who need to de fiercely defended) we would get along better. I was never a huge fan of the “happy site” period. I like diverse opinions. Even if I disagree. I would love to see all of the people who left come back. I never want anyone to leave or feel unwelcome.
There are complaints Sam has no one to confide in because well Sam has no one to confide in .Sam’s whole life is ”off screen” it has become like the Magic School in Charmed lets stick Sam’s life in ‘off screen”. I often wish they had allowed him to keep the dog at least it would of been something living that saw Sam and he could talk to ‘on screen’.
I just see this as a broken record. Isn’t there anything else to talk about in the episodes? I mean really? Sam talks to Dean and goes hunting with him. He has been talking to Jody. I am happy that Sam has talked to Jody and it has been mentioned. I don’t want an episode where Sam talks to the phone for 42 minutes. (Jody btw called him in this episode too) and this is an example before I get my head bitten off.
I mean, for the record. My complaint is this that even if we would get masterful episode where is super good characters. The story is WOW! (Add other amazing stuff on this spot) and it always turns to “Woe Sam” because that has been going around here. “Woe” can be also many number of things like “Woe Cass”, but when the amazing reviews, episodes many number of things get ignored always because of the same fact and is added to discussions or questions without no reason it will get tiresome and also it has turned a discussion stopper at least for me. Like many other views that has gone too extreme.
So questions Bookdal left us:
[b]What do you think the mark will do now that Dean is worried about it?[/b]
I think it is already doing something to him. It hasn’t left him when he was turned back from being a demon. I think it is worse than he has shown to us or Sam.
[b]Do you think Donna will become like JodyâŚhunting things, saving people?[/b]
She might but I have more of a feeling she will continue to bump on it now and then now when she was pulled to the world of Supernatural.
[b]Do you think hipster vampires would really exist? I think notâŚ..[/b]
Well, who knows… but eating the body as they are more “nature children” makes sense but still ewwww.
[b]How awesome was Jody and Donna together?! We need a spinoff….Come on, CW. Do this for us.[/b]
I liked it and I have always liked Jody. Donna is also a humane character. I like how gradually their story also gets deeper even though they are not the brothers.
I liked the episode. It was good that the episode was in contact with the past. That we know a little bit what A4 is doing and that Donna’s husband is a douche. Jody is like a big sister/mother to the boys. She cares a lot about both boys and the smile when she hugged Sam. I almost melt. Jody is like Bobby just a female version. Did I mention that it was ewww to eat the bodies? Well, it was!
Sam is not buying that Dean is not in trouble and Dean is not buying it himself either… He used pretty much strength in the fight and it felt like the vampires were twigs to cut away. As we get winter hellatus I think all hell will break loose.
– Lilah
Amen Lilah to your first two paragraphs. Some people feel the need to bring up that issue in EVERY comment. The show is what it is.
And it is a broken record that will not change if you do not like what I say by all means by pass my tiny comments that barely fill any space up and not posted every day of the week. But they will not change because what I see does not sorry.
Wasn’t the point of the post but alright.
– Lilah
[quote]I just see this as a broken record. Isn’t there anything else to talk about in the episodes? I mean really? [/quote]
[quote]Amen Lilah to your first two paragraphs. Some people feel the need to bring up that issue in EVERY comment[/quote]
[quote]Just want to applaud your post [/quote]
Wow. WellâŚ.I have to say that Lilah’s comment and Prix and nappi’s championing and applause of her comment pretty much made me feel as about as unwelcome as I have ever felt on this site. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out who the “broken record” is, as mine is the only comment upthread that was specifically critical. I have never been more keenly aware of what st50 has been saying about feeling unwelcome as I am right now. I guess if you don’t blindly and uncritically adore the show then your are labeled a “broken record” and your comments are dismissed as being unimportant and irrelevant. You know, I used to come here to discuss CRITICALLY all aspect of the show with Lala2, Percy’sowner, st50, eilf, Kelly, Geordiegirl, Tim the Enchanter, anonymousN, Sharon, and many, many others. We didn’t always agree but we were always polite to one another and any of those fans would have defended my right to say my peace without resorting to name calling or making me feel that my comments were worthless. Well, funnily enough half those people don’t comment here at all any more and the other half only comment at a bare minimum. I think they’ve given up and maybe I have too.
E there are plenty of us who defend your right to comment about anything you want as many times as you want. These are discussion threads meant to discuss our impressions of the episodes and the show. We don’t all agree (how boring would that be) but I think everyone so far as I can see is adding to the conversation in a respectful and many times enlightening manner. I’m not sure of the intent of the posts in question but I hope it wasn’t to censor anyone’s comments. Please keep posting as yours are some of the most well thought out comments I read. I may not always agree with every detail but I always learn something.
e,
sorry you feel the way you do about so many things, but my applauding lilah’s post has nothing to do with you. I never indicated that in any way shape or form…as a matter of fact I believe all I said was that I applaud her post and that’s all i’ll say about that. I gave no explanation at all because in all honesty I didn’t feel the need to and it wasn’t relevant to the topic at hand. my applause for lilah has everything to do with her positivity and her endless effort to try to raise spirits in her posts. now lilah, forgive me as I mean no disrespect, but from reading your posts I’m guessing you might not be from the US originally? or maybe you speak another language? I just think that sometimes lilah’s thoughts might get lost in translation at times….and sometimes misinterpreted. My admiration for her post is because of her effort in trying to point out that sam isn’t the only character who people might feel as getting shafted sometimes….people have felt that way before in regards to dean as well. nobody is going to be happy all the time, that’s just par for the course.
I only come here to find out how people felt about an eppy and occasionally i’ll post my opinion of it. i don’t come here to critize people…..but once in awhile if i see a post that i really admire or totally agree with then i’ll make mention of that to them.
in regards to lilah’s post, i admire that she tried to acknowledge that sam Winchester isn’t the only character who suffers from “woe” so to speak. now while her wording could’ve used a bit of editing, i totally got where she was coming from and the point she was trying to make…..
i also admire how she went back to the topic at hand……
these are the characteristics of her post that i was applauding, but as i said, i didn’t really want to get into it so i left it simple.
funny that you feel unwelcome because i actually find this site to be quite welcoming to everyone…..and not for nothing, but if anyone is in the minority on this board, it’s me and my never ending positivity and optimism that i have for this show….hell you can shoot me down all you want and i’ll still come back all smiles ….
e, i’m sorry you felt as though i was disrespecting you ….but in all honesty, i wasn’t thinking about you at all when i posted to lilah….and what i was applauding had nothing to do with your opinion and everything to do with her effort….she, like me, always sees the positive and that is what i applaud her for.
as one of my favorite characters once so eloquently asked….” can’t we all just get along?”:D
Yeah,
I don’t speak nor write english as my mother tongue so you caught it good. Luckily it’s new day today. Anyway, no disrespect taken. đ
– Lilah
I am not sure how calling another poster and their opinion a “broken record” can be construed as positive. It feels like an insult and an attack. Its diminishing of another persons opinion and dismissive of their right to post that opinion. “Don’t listen to her, she’s just a broken record and not worth listening to.” It doesn’t’ matter if that was her intention that is how it FEELS to ME and that is how I took it. Why is her defense of the show a specific attack on MY POST and POV instead of simply a defense of her own views? That used to be against the rules here, but no one seems to care any more.
it’s not my place to speak for lilah. I am responding to your insinuation that I was insulting your opinions. I was not, nor have I ever before. You feel what you feel, you say what you want…. this site is about expression and discussion and about love or even dislike for this show. for the most part it’s been pretty respectful here and I have made a conscious effort to remain respectful. I have never insulted you or anyone else on this site.
I’ve explained what I see as positive in her post…..I have been reading her posts for quite some time now and they are posts I enjoy because she always manages to find the silver lining even in an episode that was a dark cloud. I admire that she seeks out the good in an ep, even if she doesn’t like it. I also caught on that English may be a second language for her and while I get what she says most of the time, sometimes it comes out not the way she meant. I saw no disrespect for you or anyone else in her post. I saw no malevolence against you personally. what I did see was her trying to explain that as far as sam is concerned, it’s not all about woe…..and she did make it a point or at least tried to illustrate that other characters get treated in a way that might not seem fair to others as well.
english isn’t her first language, so it’s apparent to me that it could’ve been stated the manner in which you believe it should be…..but I think that’s mostly got to do with the language barrier and not personal feelings against you or anyone else.
so for my part…..I apologize for any confusion….. but for the record…again….I have never insulted anyone here, nor is it a priority on my to do list. đ
I understand that you were not thinking specifically of me or my post when you made yours, and you can’t help what I feel or what I might take objection to. But I was very unhappily surprised to find so many regular posters, people who’s opinion I have always respected (until now) championing a post that was, at its heart, a critical attack against another poster simply because she did not agree with it. And not one of you realized how nasty the comment really was; how derogatory or critical or repressive. Like I said, that used to be against the rules on this site, and I would not have expect you of all people to applaud a post that does something like that. And in the larger realm it goes beyond just me; it says unequivocally that certain views will be held up by other posters to ridicule and that the ridicule will be applauded. I was surprised and hurt by that. How am I supposed to come here now knowing that any comment I make can be simply dismissed as repetitive belly aching? By applauding the post, you inadvertently applauded her attack on me and on others who feel that same as I do; we are all just a bunch of broken records who would do well to shut up. And English as a first language or not, it’s pretty hard to misconstrue a statement like “Broken Record” or an admonishment for me to find something better to comment on: “Isn’t there anything else to talk about in the episodes? I mean really.” There is not much ambiguity in these statements regardless of any potential language barrier.
I will say that I appreciate your attempts to explain your side of things. You are the only one who even seems to care that they may have hurt another posters feelings and made them feel like they can’t speak their mind. I am taking a break from this site. It’s not what it used to be. There is a single, repetitive tone here and anyone who does not feel that way is ridiculed, called names and essentially ostracized. People say they want differing opinions, but they really don’t, they want every one to agree with them. The prevailing sentiment around here is that the show is perfect, that we should be positive all the time and only find the good and never be critical. Even Alice was leery of posting a critical article about the most recent episode ON HER OWN SITE. What does that tell you? Just because a comment is posted using positive langue or said with a “smile” a does not mean that it isn’t repressive at it’s core.
Hi E, sadly, I understand your frustration. I’ll keep this brief, but, IMO, this site has [b][u]never[/u] [/b]been very receptive to critical opinions of the show, which is why I don’t post here. I know my opinions would not be appreciated and would just been viewed as “negative” or “bitter.”
Unfortunately, I discovered this site at a time when my displeasure w/Supernatural was developing. I say unfortunately b/c I really liked you and the other posters you mentioned earlier and the conversations/debates we had. It was fun, but I didn’t realize how “unwanted” my opinions were until later. I started posting here during S8, and all I can say is each Carver season is, in MY opinion, worse than the one before it, incl. S10. My anger and displeasure w/the OOC writing for Sam was my chief complaint in S8, and it wasn’t something I could just stop ranting about but I was basically told to shut up about that and to get over it. Since my opinions were basically unwanted I started posting elsewhere.
On other forums, people would call this a “Sam site,” but I would tell them it was mostly a “happy” site (i.e., the articles and comments are 98% positive about the show). I think it is good to have a diversity of opinion but I guess that is not what most of the posters here want. Anyway, I’m sorry you were insulted, and I completely understand why you believe that post was directed to you!! That is how I saw it as well since you were the only one who gave a critical opinion. I hope you enjoy your break from the site. You may want to check out Spoilertv.com. You get a lot of different opinions there.
Lala2, eilf, PaintedWolf, Leah, st50, anonymousN, Sharon, percysowner, cheryl, and Tim if you’re out thereâŚ.⌠thank you all so much for your show of support, I appreciate it more than I can say, and I know to some extent many of you have gone through the same thing that I have. This most recent bout of comments has been a very nasty eye opener for me. This is not the site I thought it was; nor the safe haven I believed it to be, or at least it isn’t any more. Now I’ll always wonder if one of my posts will be held up to ridicule or dismissed outright simply because another poster disagrees.
I can’t tell you how much I miss those wonderful, in-depth conversations that we used to haveâŚliterally hundreds of comments long; intense, critical, passionate and always respectful. So much ground was covered in those conversations, so many different points of view were offeredâŚ. those conversations were so exciting, I’d literally spend hours on this site posting over and over and over again. Well, those days are clearly over. đ
And you are all correct about the show; it’s gone steadily down hill since season 5, with the biggest nose-dive being the Carver years. Case in point, the dialog between Sam and Dean at the bunker at the start of this latest episode. Sam says exactly three words “So? We good?” and then Dean rails for 5 minutes about how tedious research is in a way that can only be described as cringe worthy in its awkwardness. I guess it was supposed to be ‘Dean being funny’ but it was just plain awful and made Dean look like a caricature of himself. I mean, no one talks like that! You are right eilf, that wasn’t a real person, that was Jensen playing AT being Dean because there was no Dean in the material he was given. Meanwhile Sam just sat there and said absolutely nothing as per usual. The writing has become so deplorable that its making the J’s look like bad actors and we all know that this is not true. st50 wasn’t it you who said that you didn’t think that this current crop of writers believed in the Supernatural world whey were writing about? I think that was you. You said that you felt Kripke believed in the potential viability of the Supernatural world that he built and of the Winchesters as actual people living in that world, that’s why they seemed to be so real and why we were able to relate to them so easily. Carver et all clearly don’t believe in the viability of the world they are writing. For them Supernatural is a fantasy and Sam and Dean are fiction. That is why they no longer ring true as characters, they no longer seem like real people, and that is why the show no longer works. That was a brilliant analysis st50 and I agree 100%.
Perhaps I have been in denial and have only now just see things are they really are⌠it’s quite possible. This show has been a part of my life for so long it’s hard to let go. It’s good to know you guys are still around. I hope to see you comment from time to time and maybe I will too.
Hugs, E!
I miss those conversations, too. They were a blast. But, like eilf said, I think it would be tough to have them about the show as it is today. Just not enough depth anymore, imho. (And I’m less invested in it, tbh.)
And yes, I’ve said something about the writers believing in their world (or not) here before – but I think you were much more eloquent!
I still pop in occasionally to read a few articles here, but I don’t discuss the show as much as I used to…. A little bit with a few friends – privately, where I feel safe to be honest about what I think.
I hope you are able to hang on to your love for the show, at the very least, and continue to post once in a while.
I’ll raise a glass to all the old gang. Who knows….Maybe we’ll all be inspired again some day. :p
I wouldn’t say NEVER lala2. This whole site was founded on the principle of open discussion for all. We had that going for a while. But yes, we’ve strayed in the last year or two. The landscape changed and honestly, I fell back away from the site myself. I’m not as involved in the day to day as I used to be. I got too discouraged and focused on other things (TV For The Rest of Us is my labor of love right now). I’m missing the opportunity to discuss things myself (that is when I have time). I want you all back, but I’m the only writer right now who’s going to be more critical of the show. That’s my way. It’s kind of old school if you think of it! We will have a new discussion forum open soon. There will be the chance to start free form topics. I’d like you all to come back and start sharing your thoughts there. I just need to devote the next couple of weeks getting this site upgraded and then it’ll be up and running. I think season ten needs a more critical eye and there are plenty of us out there itching to discuss the problems. However, the article threads are no longer the place to do that.
Hi E I just want to say I am sorry that you got this sort of feedback. I agree that what was said to you (and a few other posters) was impolite and uncalled for. Your thoughts on the storylines have always been pretty close to what the writers intended (or didn’t care about) as far as I can see. And even if they weren’t you should still be entitled to them.
As far as the show goes no amount of us looking on the bright side of life has ever resulted in the story getting any brighter, it is a mess. Each of the writers is writing their own thing. Each of the current batch is uninterested in writing for Sam (but happy to write for alternate-Sam principally as to how it affects Dean) and when they do Sam’s input to the show often gets removed in editing. I don’t understand this thinking.
I have stopped posting on here because I feel like I am done with the show. I just wanted to give you some support.
I can’t see how the show can possibly improve, it has made NO attempt to do so for more than 2 seasons now and it is only getting worse. For me the last straw was the travesty that was the outcome of the Cole storyline and the sheer unbelievable cheek of making it ok for Dean to screw around with Sam (hauling him 8 hours across country by lying to him) a couple of weeks after nearly-human Dean tried to kill him. While at the same time we are still dealing with the fallout of Sam and his ‘getting a dog’ as being the worst thing ever done by anyone, 2 SEASONS (see episode 200 for details) after the fact. And the fact that Sam smiles at it all like he is a Stepford wife is even more infuriating. Dean wouldn’t put up with being treated this way for 2 seconds.
Did Cole speak one word to Sam while he was ‘sorting out his issues with the Winchesters’? No. And there was time, he could have turned to Sam and said ‘Sorry man.’ I know that scene was about Dean, but still, two words would have killed ya? At this stage as someone who likes Sam this sort of acknowledgement that Sam had a part in a story, and an interaction with another character, is all I am asking for. It really isn’t much. *crickets*
The show lacks grace-notes these days. And half the time the continuity isn’t even workman-like. There isn’t much to discuss.
So I am done, this is no longer a story about 2 brothers. It is barely even still a story about Dean, and he is the only character getting any narrative.
Sam and Dean were people. Ellen was, Bobby, John. You could believe in their existence. The people are gone, and in general the fun of discussing these people is gone too.
So, sorry E! If it helps Tumblr is actually a good place for discussion. There are some incredibly complex and in-depth discussions that go on there. Like, back in the day, we used have on here, when the show gave us something to work with and we weren’t just filling-in holes. Some of them think too much and some of them are plain wrong and some of them over or under appreciate different characters. But in general they are pretty interesting.
Hi [b]E.[/b] I’m a bit late to this but I just wanted to add my hugs and support to you too. I’ve not been posting here as much as I have done in the past and that’s due to the same reasons so many others have stopped posting. I miss all those discussions and being able to post something critical about Show without worrying about what I’d just written and then editing and re-editing the life out of my comment. I do like the sound of the new discussion forums that Alice has mentioned.
I’ve made my feelings very clear earlier about everyone’s right to post what they want and as many times as they want. I am sorry you don’t feel welcome E. You would be missed if you left. So don’t ok?:)
Hi E, I know I donât comment much around here anymore, either (though thatâs more a case of not having as much time anymore as Iâd like to do so),but Iâm almost certain it was no oneâs intention to make you feel unwelcome or uncomfortable with commenting. I, like you, have read and engaged in many insightful, intelligent discussions and analyses with people who have both agreed and disagreed on many points, and Iâm sure, though some have left, that there are still many of us whoâd like to continue with that tradition, just as Iâm sure there are plenty who are more than happy to hear and/or discuss your opinions regardless of what they are. I sincerely hope that youâll keep commenting.
– PW
Hey E, U I just want to offer my support as well, as late as it is. I don’t comment much anymore, but I read what’s on the site and I’ve missed your comments recently, as well as all the others mentioned above. I thought I’d be hooked on SPN until the bitter end, but when I watch now I just get frustrated, and I feel like there’s nowhere to post! Anyways, you’re not alone in feeling the way you do. xx
E, if you would like to drop me a note (If you don’t have my email address use “Contact Us”) I’d love to discuss further with you the frustrations offline. I’m with you on this one, but the landscape has changed. I wouldn’t mind sharing some potential solutions with you to open back up the discussion. This invitation is actually open to anyone. I’m trying to setup something new and feedback is very helpful.
Hello Alice, Julia G, Gwen and everyone else that has shown me support lately⌠Thank you all so much. Your support has far outweighed any petty comments that another poster could have leveled at me. I was upset for a while and then I got pissed. I have decided that I am not going to be bullied into not speaking my mind. Screw that! I will criticize this show as I see fit and if someone doesn’t like it, well tough nooggies. Feel free to argue with me all you like all you “this show is perfect and we won’t hear a bad word against it” commenters, but I’ll be damned if I let you chase me away. My life and career revolves around music and theatre. I live and breathe performing arts. I am critical of what I consider to be good dramatic construction and I expect it in my television shows as much as I expect it in the operas and musical theatre I pay to see, in the plays and literature I read, in the students I teach and most of all in my own performances. Maybe some of you an go through life blithely accepting anything and everything without a care or a criticism, but I am not one of them. When this show sucks I’ll say so. When it does not have good characterization, has poor plotting, pacing or trashes canon I will say so. Don’t like it? Tough⌠give my comments a pass then.
Your site improvements sound fabulous Alice and I can’t wait to see them. You of all people should feel safe posting what you think about an episode on your own site. I relish your reviews because I know that you will tell it like it is; please don’t stop doing that. Shut down the comment section for your reviews if you feel you must, but please don’t deprive us of your extensive critical insight. You, Sylvia Bond and Mo Ryan were/are the best of the Supernatural reviewers IMO, and of those three you are the only one left and I for one appreciate and applaud your efforts.
Good for you E!:) Tough nooggies? LOL. Seriously, glad to see you back.
Hey lilah,
Just want to applaud your post and that is all to say about that;). I do agree as well that the scene with dean talking about the she wolf he wolf was more about his frustration on the volume of info available vs. no info available regarding the moc and nothing more than that.
I do enjoy reading your posts and it would be nice To explore what was so enjoyable and where it might lead. Just pop in here to give my overall view and then skedaddle…..i hope to discuss further in fae analysis, or even in Elle’s as its a more welcoming atmosphere for someone like me ;). For now…I will just bask in the love I have for this show and my boys..:D
Thanks Nappi,
You know. I am pretty strict and short writer. I do try to find out if there is some “easter eggs” or information that is somehow relevant to what is the story atm. I see Supernatural as a whole. Even when one part would be taken off I would feel like a part was missing. Kevin and all those characters we have lost are one. The heros/heroesses and even some bad guys because they were great. Of course even I have some issues that bother me (Leviathan’s cough) but I just move past those and welcome the new stuff that comes our way.
I wish I could write my opinions like you do. Mostly my writing is: “I loved the episode.” etc. Short and on point and very boring. đ
– Lilah
I feel compelled to say that even though I don’t agree with every post I have always felt everyone has the right to express how they feel about the episode or the show in general. If I don’t agree, I simply move on or make a reply about something in particular if it bothers me. People who we don’t happen to agree with have just as much right to say how they feel as anyone else as many times as they want to. I don’t have to read it or join in the discussion. I have always felt strongly about this. The only thing I have a problem with are people who are rude or disrespectful.
[quote]I feel compelled to say that even though I don’t agree with every post I have always felt everyone has the right to express how they feel about the episode or the show in general. If I don’t agree, I simply move on or make a reply about something in particular if it bothers me. People who we don’t happen to agree with have just as much right to say how they feel as anyone else as many times as they want to. I don’t have to read it or join in the discussion. I have always felt strongly about this. The only thing I have a problem with are people who are rude or disrespectful.[/quote]Agree 100%
Hey Leah, before I skedaddle..I just wanted to say that I hope nothing I said compelled you…..my posts may be a lot of things but compelling ain’t one of them:D…..seriously though I hope no offense was taken by anything said. đ
I beg to differ Nappi! I love your comments.:) I just don’t want to make anyone feel bad about expressing an opinion whether or not I find it repetitive or against my own personal views on the show. I think it is entirely fair game to disagree or argue a point or two or challenge what is said! I fall on the happier side as well but have come to be fine with all respectfully stated opinions. If not I pick what I disagree with and try and engage with that poster or just move along. It has helped my mindset.:)
Good. I just wanted to be sure I wasn’t offensive to anyone…sometimes I write these posts right before I have to go to work and don’t get the chance to edit and reword stuff. I try to be so careful but sometimes I mess up. Don’t want to disrespect anyone, whether I agree or not.
So back to it and then I will skedaddle:D just finished watching again and always enjoy the second go ‘ round. Here’s some stuff I enjoyed that I forgot to mention the first time.
1. Boys back at bunker…noticed didn’t stay long…wonder if being there is uncomfortable at the moment…hope they expand on that.
2. Did anyone else notice deans blond tips….he had this Malibu ken look to him:D
3. Loved hearing ..the band…cool music this season
4. Hibbing….nothing but vamps and people who hunt people..not much of a tourist site:D
5. Did anyone else laugh at the “obviously” when the sheriff announced hosting for first time
6. Loved Sam and jody’s hug…it said it all
7. Stuff you dean…..does it get any better:D
8. Monologue =doom
9. Dean being proud of the badge Sam made…..think dean is trying to hold onto and enjoy everything he is and has.
10. Sam so did not buy into deans speech at the end, but he tried to give dean comfort by telling him..lets go with that.
11. Alice, I know you mentioned Sam as being thoughtless, but I chocked it up to him being preoccupied. I remember not too long ago the boys did the same thing to Ellen…at least Sam didn’t get smacked:D
Loved this ep just as much second time….funny I see the myth arc stuff to be more filler and the Sam and dean saving people and focusing on ea. other to be the meat and potatoes:D
Loving this season. And I for one still think there is plenty of life left in it and am looking forward to a few more years.;)
Nappi, Watched it with husband again in the evening. He is not influenced by the online community like I am so it is nice to hear his thoughts about the episodes. After this episode he said he loves that it is quieter and that there is not immediately some kind of big bad looming above the boys this season. He has been probably enjoying the episodes even more than I have. He also said it feels like old school for him. I am slightly envious how he still watches the show tbh. And he also finds so much annoying stuff too from the show that makes me laugh… Little things that are always needed to mention. đ
BTW the smiley at the start resembles the smiley that Comedian wears in watchmen (Played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan aka Papa Winchester) It is common but might be easter egg for that.
– Lilah
I loved, just loved this episode, in fact, I have been loving this entire season so I hope you are real wrong about them needing to end this and I also hope that TPTB don’t read comments like that and think it is the thoughts of most of the fandom.:( I love Jody and Donna together and think they make one kickass girl team. Go Girl Power!!!:D A spin off with them hunting the big bads would be very entertaining. Looks like Dean is back to his old ways of hiding what is really going on with him and the Mark but then we wouldn’t expect anything less from him. He just wouldn’t be Dean if he wasn’t play the tough guy and all is good with him. Man that extended promo for next week looks very intense and has me worried sh__less.:( I have to say I was caught off guard on the hippie chick being the main big bad even though I knew they weren’t bringing her in at the beginning for nothing. There is always something related to the hints they dole out even if some of us don’t get it right away. I love how after 10 years they can still surprise me and entertain me each and every week. I for one, am one very happy girl with the show, the story line, and all involved.:D
I did notice Dean giving the puppy-dog eyes to Sam for a change.
I think there was something really off about Donna in the beginning. Would a real person act like that?
[i] Jody: Word âround the campfire is you went out the res a couple months back.
Dean: That right? You and Sam been passing notes during class? [/i]
Dean seemed quite negative. Dean has talked about Sam plenty of times to other people when Sam hasnât been doing well so he should allow Sam the same courtesy. Itâs not like Sam has a lot of friends in his life he could talk to when he needs support. Deanâs dead body had gone missing from the Bunker! Maybe Dean is still embarrassed about how far things got out of his control and he doesnât consider Jody to be family yet so he doesnât want her to know their dirty laundry.
I thought it was a little weird that Dean said, [i] âYouâre a vampire. Youâre scum. End of story,â [/i] so disdainfully even after becoming friends with Benny.
The girl taking the belt suggestively was another example of Dean being subjected to the threat of sexual violence more than Sam is.
The scene at the barn was very reminiscent of the one in 9.12 [i] Sharp Teeth[/i]. Just replace the werewolves with vampires etc. They even repeated the âWas Dean affected by the mark when he killed?â scenario. I thought that Donna looked way crazier than Dean did after decapitating a vampire so the mark of Cain stuff wasnât that exciting in this episode.
Maybe Dean touching his arm would have been suspenseful if there had been more going on before that. Now it seemed like they had to throw something about the mark at the end of the episode because the mid-season finale comes up next.
Sam may have reached out to Jody when Dean went missing but it doesnât seem that they are truly close. Dean has been back for weeks now but Jody just found out about it. So it seems to me that Sam called her so she would know to keep an eye out for Dean but Sam did the âIâm fineâ dance over the phone. Jody didnât call Sam regularly to find out how he was doing so their friendship isnât very deep and itâs not going to become stronger if Jody continues to interact mainly with other side-characters (like Alex and Donna).
[u] [b] [i] OT [/i] [/b] [/u]
It wouldnât make much sense to me if the writers revealed that Castiel is possessing a vessel that doesnât have a soul inside. In Heaven, angels only guard the souls but angels seems to have access to a soul when they have a vessel.
[b] 9.01 I Think I’m Gonna Like It Here [/b]
[i] Dean: How will it work?
Gadreel: Mutual benefit, I suppose. I heal Sam while healing myself. [/i]
[b] 9.08 Rock and a Hard Place [/b]
[i] Dean: You okay?
Sam: Yeah…uh…yeah. Just, uh…resting my head for a second.
(A moment later)
Dean: Seriously, you want a pillow?
Sam: No, I’m fine.
Dean: You’re sick.
Sam: No, I’m not sick. I’m just, um — I feel like my battery can’t recharge. [/i]
In 5.12 [b] Swap Meat[/b], Nora planned that Gary would say âyesâ to Lucifer while Gary was inside Samâs body. I think the demon was mistaken though. Lucifer would not have been happy to have only Samâs âmeatsuitâ. Sam himself was important. Like Death said, itâs all about the souls.
On the other hand, Castielâs stint as a human raises a lot of questions. Did Castiel receive a soul after Metatron cut Castielâs grace out? Was Castiel the new Jimmy?
[b] 9.01 I Think I’m Gonna Like It Here [/b]
[i] Hael: — — We’re going to become more than just friends, Castiel. We’re going to become one.
Castiel: You want to possess me.
Hael: Your vessel is strong. This one won’t hold me much longer. — — [/i]
However, I think there is a difference between saying, âYour vessel is strong,â and âYou are a strong vessel.â
Castiel functioned normally as human. Does that mean that Jimmyâs soul was gone?
What happened after Castiel got another angelâs grace? It would be weird if Castiel was the only angel whose vessel is empty.
Maybe Castiel was human after he lost his grace only as far as not having his powers anymore.
[b] 5.04 The End [/b]
[i] 2014!Castiel: Dean, I’m not an angel anymore.
Dean: What?
2014!Castiel: Yeah, I went mortal.
Dean: What do you mean? How?
2014!Castiel: I think it had something to do with the other angels leaving. But when they bailed, my mojo just kind ofâ psshhew!âdrained away. And now, you know, I’m practically human. I mean, Dean, I’m all but useless. Last year, broke my foot, laid up for two months.
Dean: Wow.
2014!Castiel: Yeah.
Dean: So, you’re human. Well, welcome to the club.
2014!Castiel: Thanks. Except I used to belong to a much better club. And now I’m powerless. — — [/i]
It seems that a vessel being strong is about genetics and not about the possessed person having a soul that is somehow stronger than the rest of the populationâs.
[b] 4.20 The Rapture [/b]
[i] Jimmy: No, he said that I’m special. It’s in my blood.
Amelia: What does that mean, it’s in your blood, hm?
Jimmy: He didn’t say. He just said that God has chosen me for a higher purpose.
Castiel: She’s [Claireâs] with me now. She’s chosen. It’s in her blood, as it was in yours. [/i]
If Castiel left Jimmyâs body, Jimmy would likely be like Urielâs vessel had been.
[b] 5.13 The Song Remains the Same [/b]
[i] Michael: Oh, buck up [Dean]. It could be worse. You know, unlike my brothers, I won’t leave you a drooling mess when I’m done wearing you. [/i]
[b] 9.10 Road Trip [/b]
[i] Castiel: You kill an angel, its vessel dies, too.
Dean: Think I don’t know that? If I don’t end Sam and that halo burns him out and I… God, I was so damn stupid. [/i]
However, Jimmyâs consciousness might be present as long as his soul is.
[b] 4.09 I Know What You Did Last Summer [/b]
[i] Ruby: Proof. This body is 100% socially conscious. I recycle. Al Gore would be proud.
Sam: You grabbed a coma patient?
Ruby: You didn’t want me to take a body with someone in it, and I made sure that the spirit was gone. Apartment was empty. You happy? [/i]
I donât think that angelic possession could burn the soul out.
[b] 6.11 Appointment in Samarra [/b]
[i] Death: But the human soul is not a rubber ball. It’s vulnerable, impermanent, but stronger than you know. And more valuable than you can imagine. [/i]
Maybe the show has attempted to do a role reversal between Sam and Dean but in my opinion it hasnât worked. Dean fit the role of the worrying brother better because he still got to be a badass character, develop relationships with others etc. Apparently, when Sam doesnât have a mytharc, he doesnât have much going on in general. They might as well take him off-screen save for a scene or two in episodes to establish that the brothersâ relationship is good. (Of course there are real life reasons why they wouldnât be able to do that.)
If they retired the character for a while, the writers might become excited to write for Sam again.
After getting to play with Dean, Crowley, Castiel etc. they might notice that something is missing after all and they would truly internalize that Sam brings something indispensable to the dynamic. They still have Jared show up on set so why not take the opportunity to do something with Sam.
By taking Sam off-screen, I feel like the character would be protected. Not adding depth to the character is worse than Sam not being on-screen.
When I think about how strongly Sam Winchester was part of Supernatural in the beginning, and the state the character is in now ten years later, it makes me sad. He is not being treated like a main character should be treated. Sam being more subdued is part of him because of what he has been through and what has been put on him by the other characters but I think some of it comes from the writes preferring Dean to Sam. Maybe writing for Dean is more fun for them because of Deanâs characteristics (one-liners, women, bravado etc.) and because people respond to the problems that Dean has. The characterâs issues have been the same since the beginning of the show, they âsellâ well to the audience.
Now it feels like Sam is needed just because the Winchester brothers are the premise of Supernatural. Sam doesnât seem to have intrinsic value as a character on the show anymore.
Sam has always been plot driven and Dean character driven. Sam gets plot driven writing and Dean character that is why there has become such a gulf between how the two are approached , despite what was done to Sam the fallout has been Dean focused .
Life is to short to spend on something you hate. It poisons you and the universe.
Critical articles are written here and are welcomed. Bookdal and Alice in particular come to mind.
I agree this is a POSITIVE SITE, but it is honest and gives multiple interpretations.