Let’s Speculate: Supernatural 9×11 “First Born”
Warning: If you have not seen tonight’s episode, “First Born,” then beware spoilers ahead!
Summary: The episode opens with a pretty badass sequence of Timothy Omundson as Cain, kicking some demonic Confederate soldiers. Did I mention he’s badass?
The episode follows Crowley and Dean as they team up to retrieve the “First Blade”. The blade, we find out, was used by Cain to kill Abel. Crowley and Dean find the blade through John’s journal, which leads them to a “hunting partner” of John’s – a pretty blonde named Tara. Tara’s skeptical and judges Dean for working with the king of Hell, but she finally agrees to help them find the blade. After using a tracking spell, Crowley and Dean find Cain.
First of all, Cain frightens Crowley, which is kind of funny to see. Cain is retired and is a beekeeper, which of course reminds me of Cas, nakedness, and bees. But he also reminds me of Rufus and Bobby and I want to cry. So I have multiple emotional traumas going on, people! Anyway, Cain rejects their pleas for assistance, but after the most recent female victim (Tara) gives up the guys’ location, demons come to call. Cain sits back as Crowley and Dean fight off the pack. We find out that Cain actually was saving Abel from Lucifer’s temptation and the mark of Cain was Cain agreeing to take Abel’s place as a minion of Lucifer. The sequence at the beginning is explained as Cain having killed all the knights of hell save one…..you got it, Abaddon. Apparently she was a jilted girlfriend and wanted to take revenge on Cain, who chose a human woman over her. The parallels are anvilish as we learn that the blade is powered by the “mark” and that the mark can be transferred to a worthy successor. Yep, you guessed it. Dean. Transfer complete. Dean says yes to being a vessel and the world cries a little. Cain calls forth the remaining demons as Crowley and Dean Cain (now endowed with the superpower of uberdemonkillingmojo) scurry off to dunk for the blade in the bottom of the ocean. Cain lights up his house with demon killing like he’s running a contest with Griswald in a National Lampoon Christmas sequel.
In the other storyline of the episode, Sam and Castiel are hunkered down in the bunker being cute, domestic, and trying to get the healing on. *cue Marvin Gaye music here* Castiel finds out that they can extract some grace and get some tracking going, but it’s gonna cause some pain. But we all know the Sam/Cas relationship has a little pain involved – see Season Six “Caged Heat” for reference here. Cas does some long distance couples counseling for the brothers and reveals his new appreciation for humans and also their food, especially Peanut Butter and Jam/Jelly. Castiel listens as Sam talks about his guilt and apparent suicidal tendencies. We are led to believe the extraction will kill Sam, but voila, Cas gets his healing on and Sam is good to go. *senses metaphors here* Sam and Castiel try to do the tracking spell but Gadreel did not leave enough angel juice behind for the spell. I will not make the inappropriate comments I want to about angel juice in Sam. I’ll leave that to the adults in the audience to figure out. Although disappointed, Jared hugs Misha…I mean Sam hugs Castiel for the first time I believe. At this point, the Sassy shipper in me yells from rooftops that Robbie Thompson shall have rights to my first born.
While Sassy are being all cute and emotional, the newest ship on the block, Dowley or Crean, have a spat about Crowley’s deceitful ways. Surprise, surprise – Crowley lied. Who’d have thought that?! I’m shocked and aghast. Of course now that Dean has entered into A PACT WITH THE DEVIL BY WEARING THE MARK OF CAIN, what’s one lie between DEMONS? Dean dismisses Crowley and orders him to go find the blade, like oh, he’s CROWLEY’S BOSS. Sorry for the caps, but that’s my read and I want y’all to think of the implications.
What I Liked:
1. Robbie Thompson’s writing. Always, even when I get mad at him.
2. Timothy Omundson is better than all of your other guest stars.
3. Tara, RIP Badass Vagina Wearer. Go to the Huntress Heaven in style, my friend.
4. Castiel and Sam making plans for how they’ll live together after their civil union is performed.
5. Crowley being cocky.
6. Dean is now DEAN CAIN.
What I Didn’t Like:
1. Sam’s suicidal tendencies. Fail, show. Fail. *I blame you, Carver. I blame you always.*
2. Bees!!! Why Bees?!!! *I feel it is significant and will ponder it more.
3. Brothers apart. No. Don’t like.
One theory of the week and here it is…..
Dean’s gonna turn bad, y’all. I’m sensing it. I suspect that bearing the mark of Cain means becoming a demon. Oh, Dean, jump first, think later. Crowley thinks he can manipulate the Winchesters. Well he knows this, but I believe this time will be different. I think the self-loathing set up in the last episode was the perfect gateway for a Dean who can turn bad and not turn back.
In a way, my theory is convincing me this was actually a fantastic episode. Of course my theory will be wrong….sigh, as it always is…sigh.
Now it’s your turn!
What do you think the mark means?
Will Cain return?
Will Sam and Castiel wear white or black at their wedding reception?
Will Crowley defeat Abaddon?
Is Crowley in a long con to release his boss, Lucifer, by getting Dean to say yes to bearing the mark and working for the side of evil?
Will Dean take the crown of Hell and release Lucifer and Michael so that we get a reset of the apocobrofight?
The most important question though….Will Cain be the star of the “Supernatural” spinoff as the headmaster of Cain’s badass school of demonhunting and will he resurrect Bobby and Rufus to be his Professors so I can have Old Men Hunting?!!! I need this in my life, y’all.
Please share your feelings, theories, and thoughts below.
I screamed twice. When Sam hugged Castiel and held on long enough to make Cas hug back, and when Dean took the mark of Cain. OMG, he’s going evil! It’s a fascinating parallel to Sam taking on his demon powers in season four, no? He’s doing it for the right reasons, but guess what that road of good intentions is paved with?
Huh, so for the first time ever, Sam is tied to Heaven and Dean tied to Hell. I love it!
I screamed twice. When Sam hugged Castiel and held on long enough to make Cas hug back, and when Dean took the mark of Cain. OMG, he’s going evil! It’s a fascinating parallel to Sam taking on his demon powers in season four, no? He’s doing it for the right reasons, but guess what that road of good intentions is paved with?
Huh, so for the first time ever, Sam is tied to Heaven and Dean tied to Hell. I love it!
Sam has turned his back on Dean yet again – how many times is that? I’ve lost count – ergo Dean has nothing to live for. Crowley was right, Dean hates himself, even more now for letting Sam down again, so Dean doesn’t care what happens to himself. If he dies (again), Sam retires (again), Sam is happy, Dean has done his job, so he doesn’t need to live. Of course, just by living he’s ruining Sam’s life, so what’s he got to lose?
Sam has turned his back on Dean yet again – how many times is that? I’ve lost count – ergo Dean has nothing to live for. Crowley was right, Dean hates himself, even more now for letting Sam down again, so Dean doesn’t care what happens to himself. If he dies (again), Sam retires (again), Sam is happy, Dean has done his job, so he doesn’t need to live. Of course, just by living he’s ruining Sam’s life, so what’s he got to lose?
Huh. @#2 I must have missed when Sam turned his back on Dean. Wasn’t Dean the one who left?
Huh. @#2 I must have missed when Sam turned his back on Dean. Wasn’t Dean the one who left?
I don’t see Dean going “bad”; BUT I am worried about what those “responsibilities” are that comes with the mark. Dean, Sweetie, ASK MORE QUESTIONS!!!
Outstanding episode, in every way…
I don’t see Dean going “bad”; BUT I am worried about what those “responsibilities” are that comes with the mark. Dean, Sweetie, ASK MORE QUESTIONS!!!
Outstanding episode, in every way…
Okay, I’m issuing the Sam vs. Dean warning right now! No more comments in that territory or they get edited.
I think the episode obviously showed that Sam and Dean have turned away from each other, and both Castiel and Crowley are trying to get them together for their missions.
Okay, I’m issuing the Sam vs. Dean warning right now! No more comments in that territory or they get edited.
I think the episode obviously showed that Sam and Dean have turned away from each other, and both Castiel and Crowley are trying to get them together for their missions.
Great episode and what an intriguing set-up for the rest of the season (and beyond)!! Only thing I’m mildly disappointed about is that they didn’t make reference to our boys being descendants of Cain and Abel as mentioned in Season 5. But you know what, I’m going to let that go. (And hopefully the writers remember that moment that write it into a future episode, heh.)
I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other about Sam’s suicidal tendencies, though I think the wording “suicidal tendencies” might be a bit strong. After everything he’s done, everything he’s been through, I feel it’s natural for Sam to be ready to move on from this life and to die… the fact that neither of the boys HAS died permanently shows how unnatural (or supernatural, if you like) their existence is. So Sam’s admittance that he was ready to give up and move on… makes perfect sense to me.
What also seems to work well in my opinion is the brothers’ separation this time around, especially if it means more pairings like we saw in this episode.
Great episode and what an intriguing set-up for the rest of the season (and beyond)!! Only thing I’m mildly disappointed about is that they didn’t make reference to our boys being descendants of Cain and Abel as mentioned in Season 5. But you know what, I’m going to let that go. (And hopefully the writers remember that moment that write it into a future episode, heh.)
I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other about Sam’s suicidal tendencies, though I think the wording “suicidal tendencies” might be a bit strong. After everything he’s done, everything he’s been through, I feel it’s natural for Sam to be ready to move on from this life and to die… the fact that neither of the boys HAS died permanently shows how unnatural (or supernatural, if you like) their existence is. So Sam’s admittance that he was ready to give up and move on… makes perfect sense to me.
What also seems to work well in my opinion is the brothers’ separation this time around, especially if it means more pairings like we saw in this episode.
Oops… I have more thoughts. Just wanted to add, their separation seems more believable and organic this time around, in my opinion. I mean, after making the promise to choose each other — which Castiel referenced once again in this episode — only to be followed up by the events that transpired because of the “I didn’t have a choice” theme, it makes sense to me that both brothers would want some time apart… out of anger, out of hurt, out of disappointment, out of regret.
It would be far less satisfying, in my opinion, for both of them to sweep things under the carpet and stick together immediately. And it’s far less reflective of real life (as much as a show like this can be reflective of real life!) if the brothers were to talk and hug it out. (I don’t know a lot of brothers who do that in real life… they brood, stew, give each other the silent treatment, then gradually gravitate back into each other’s lives again, because family is family.)
So I’m liking their time apart, if only because it emphasizes the promise that was made at the end of Season 8 and subsequently broken because “I did what I had to do”, and underscores the emotional impact of that broken promise.
But anyhoo, back to the episode… 😛 Loved it!
Oops… I have more thoughts. Just wanted to add, their separation seems more believable and organic this time around, in my opinion. I mean, after making the promise to choose each other — which Castiel referenced once again in this episode — only to be followed up by the events that transpired because of the “I didn’t have a choice” theme, it makes sense to me that both brothers would want some time apart… out of anger, out of hurt, out of disappointment, out of regret.
It would be far less satisfying, in my opinion, for both of them to sweep things under the carpet and stick together immediately. And it’s far less reflective of real life (as much as a show like this can be reflective of real life!) if the brothers were to talk and hug it out. (I don’t know a lot of brothers who do that in real life… they brood, stew, give each other the silent treatment, then gradually gravitate back into each other’s lives again, because family is family.)
So I’m liking their time apart, if only because it emphasizes the promise that was made at the end of Season 8 and subsequently broken because “I did what I had to do”, and underscores the emotional impact of that broken promise.
But anyhoo, back to the episode… 😛 Loved it!
@Alice : What is that little Looney Toons critter next to your name? He looks familiar.
I don’t know what the Mark of Cain means but I got a bad feeling about it nevertheless.
Loved it : Sam/Cas hugging it out in the bunker.
Cain is totally bada**!
@Alice : What is that little Looney Toons critter next to your name? He looks familiar.
I don’t know what the Mark of Cain means but I got a bad feeling about it nevertheless.
Loved it : Sam/Cas hugging it out in the bunker.
Cain is totally bada**!
Cain: The mark can be transferred to someone who’s worthy.
Dean: You mean a killer like you.
Cain: Yes.
Dean: Can I use it to kill that bitch?
Cain: Yes. But you have to know with the mark comes with a great burden. Some would call it a great cost.
Dean: Yeah well spare me the warning label. You had me at kill the bitch.
Cain: Good luck Dean, you’re going to need it.
Dean: Yeah, well I get that a lot. Let’s dance.
Oh Dean, what did you just get yourself into?
Cain: The mark can be transferred to someone who’s worthy.
Dean: You mean a killer like you.
Cain: Yes.
Dean: Can I use it to kill that bitch?
Cain: Yes. But you have to know with the mark comes with a great burden. Some would call it a great cost.
Dean: Yeah well spare me the warning label. You had me at kill the bitch.
Cain: Good luck Dean, you’re going to need it.
Dean: Yeah, well I get that a lot. Let’s dance.
Oh Dean, what did you just get yourself into?
Ikeke35 – I swear I’ve had that icon for about seven years, and you’re the first one to ask!
That is Gossamer. He’s the one that Bugs Bunny called a “very interesting monster.” There’s also a variation of him in the Marvin the Martian cartoons. I’m a redhead and my first blog was called “The Red Headed Monster.” Given my love for Looney Tunes, the icon was an obvious choice.
One day, if I EVER have time again, I’m going to resurrect the Red Headed Monster. I have a lot of life stories to share.
Sorry for the diversion. Back to your regularly scheduled squeeing.
Ikeke35 – I swear I’ve had that icon for about seven years, and you’re the first one to ask!
That is Gossamer. He’s the one that Bugs Bunny called a “very interesting monster.” There’s also a variation of him in the Marvin the Martian cartoons. I’m a redhead and my first blog was called “The Red Headed Monster.” Given my love for Looney Tunes, the icon was an obvious choice.
One day, if I EVER have time again, I’m going to resurrect the Red Headed Monster. I have a lot of life stories to share.
Sorry for the diversion. Back to your regularly scheduled squeeing.
[quote name=”alice”]Cain: The mark can be transferred to someone who’s worthy.
Dean: You mean a killer like you.
Cain: Yes.
Dean: Can I use it to kill that bitch?
Cain: Yes. But you have to know with the mark comes with a great burden. Some would call it a great cost.
Dean: Yeah well spare me the warning label. You had me at kill the bitch.
Cain: Good luck Dean, you’re going to need it.
Dean: Yeah, well I get that a lot. Let’s dance.
Oh Dean, what did you just get yourself into?[/quote]
I think that the cost could be a few things. First, note how Cain needs Dean to kill him with the blade? So is now Dean immortal? I do think it comes with being a demon. Also, it could be the leader of the army, right? He was a soldier of hell. The first, really, right? Of course, what does this mean about Lilith? I’m still sorting that out in my head, to be honest.
Also I just realized that through a weird game of six degrees, Dean said yes to Lucifer.
[quote]Cain: The mark can be transferred to someone who’s worthy.
Dean: You mean a killer like you.
Cain: Yes.
Dean: Can I use it to kill that bitch?
Cain: Yes. But you have to know with the mark comes with a great burden. Some would call it a great cost.
Dean: Yeah well spare me the warning label. You had me at kill the bitch.
Cain: Good luck Dean, you’re going to need it.
Dean: Yeah, well I get that a lot. Let’s dance.
Oh Dean, what did you just get yourself into?[/quote]
I think that the cost could be a few things. First, note how Cain needs Dean to kill him with the blade? So is now Dean immortal? I do think it comes with being a demon. Also, it could be the leader of the army, right? He was a soldier of hell. The first, really, right? Of course, what does this mean about Lilith? I’m still sorting that out in my head, to be honest.
Also I just realized that through a weird game of six degrees, Dean said yes to Lucifer.
Never mind
Never mind
Someone just posted this on our Twitter.
@WinFamBusiness if he's the new Cain- Sam… Abel… My stomach just turned! :(— Tina K (@az_Tina_MK) January 22, 2014
I’m silently freaking out over the thought now.
Someone just posted this on our Twitter.
@WinFamBusiness if he's the new Cain- Sam… Abel… My stomach just turned! :(— Tina K (@az_Tina_MK) January 22, 2014
I’m silently freaking out over the thought now.
I have not seen the episode but Dean is Cain or Dean Cain whatever.I hope this means we atleast have 3 more seasons 🙂
I have not seen the episode but Dean is Cain or Dean Cain whatever.I hope this means we atleast have 3 more seasons 🙂
Dean is the new Cain? One step closer to Abaddean.
Yum.
Dean is the new Cain? One step closer to Abaddean.
Yum.
Gen tweeted the baby’s name by the way. This episode was information overload. Must process and re-watch. Implications galore!
Gen tweeted the baby’s name by the way. This episode was information overload. Must process and re-watch. Implications galore!
Alice, I also screamed at the cute but awkward hug between Sam and Cas! It was really nice to finally, into 6 seasons of Cas being on the show, to finally get a little quality time for them. Dean and Crowley were an interesting team (and super funny to boot) but the whole Dean taking on Cain’s mark has me uneasy. Cain was a fascinating character but I still worry … I mean, yeah, he was marked by Cas when he was saved from Hell and he did have Benny’s soul in him until he released it but this is WAY different. It’s not an angel who was sent to pull him out of Hell nor a friend he was letting hitch a ride out of Purgatory so I worry. And yes, I thought about that last week when I saw the preview that it was a mirror of season 4 in terms of which Winchester is allying himself with an angel or a demon but it’s not quite the same as it’s an angel and a demon we all know and Cas is friends with both and Crowley is, well, Crowley.
Glad to see Cas is getting better about asking for help and not rushing off (not that he can) firing on all thrusters but without all the facts. Maybe being human for a bit really helped him gain some patience!
As much as I don’t like Sam and Dean separated I don’t mind it for an episode or two as sometimes they need an outside perspective from time to time so that wasn’t a problem. It’s refreshing! But not for too long, K?
Alice, I also screamed at the cute but awkward hug between Sam and Cas! It was really nice to finally, into 6 seasons of Cas being on the show, to finally get a little quality time for them. Dean and Crowley were an interesting team (and super funny to boot) but the whole Dean taking on Cain’s mark has me uneasy. Cain was a fascinating character but I still worry … I mean, yeah, he was marked by Cas when he was saved from Hell and he did have Benny’s soul in him until he released it but this is WAY different. It’s not an angel who was sent to pull him out of Hell nor a friend he was letting hitch a ride out of Purgatory so I worry. And yes, I thought about that last week when I saw the preview that it was a mirror of season 4 in terms of which Winchester is allying himself with an angel or a demon but it’s not quite the same as it’s an angel and a demon we all know and Cas is friends with both and Crowley is, well, Crowley.
Glad to see Cas is getting better about asking for help and not rushing off (not that he can) firing on all thrusters but without all the facts. Maybe being human for a bit really helped him gain some patience!
As much as I don’t like Sam and Dean separated I don’t mind it for an episode or two as sometimes they need an outside perspective from time to time so that wasn’t a problem. It’s refreshing! But not for too long, K?
I am a total wreck! Loved the episode, but I am literally sick to my stomach over my boy Dean. The minute Cain told the story about his brother I turned to my friend and said “OH God no, Dean is Cain, Sam is Abel. Do you think the season or series will end with some kind of parallel?”
I brought up what the angels always said about them being direct blood line from Cain/Abel. God NOOOO! I couldn’t be more nervous and sick if it were real life. I’m not kidding.
Then I saw the mark and again I turned to my friend and said, “He’s going to give that thing to DEAN!!!” I was shouting, NO,No,No,No Dean, my baby! (I know, I’ve gone over the edge.) I’ve never said OMG, full version, so many times in an episode.
I am so afraid of where this is going to send Dean. He is being so wreckless. Reminds me of some previous seasons, but oh man, he’s in such a dark place. And will he tell/show Sam?
After we met Cain all I could think about was the family history, the parallels and Lucifer in a brother. Selling a soul for your brother. My mind is swimming and I can’t type fast enough to get it all out, nor even come up with lucid, progressive thoughts.
I rewatched right away and I did not watch a third time online like usual at midnight because frankly, I don’t think I’d sleep if I watch it again.
Jensen literally threw himself into this episode. Body and soul. I am loving this season, but miss huggy Dean from last season. I think it’s going to take a LOT to get him out of this state and hugging again. He is burying his emotions, and that is exactly how Lucifer wanted Sam to be when he took over. Full of rage and a thirst for revenge, I don’t like my Dean in this place. God help him.
I’m just rambling I know. Sorry. Still so much more to say on the Cain/Abel and Dean/Sam thing. I’m a mess. The writers are the bomb for making me feel like this. I HATE them. JK of course. Love this show.
Jared and Misha were great. The hug, the talk, just oh. I love how Cas has retained some of his human feelings. I love it actually. I feel he got through to Sam. Jared enduring more pain and anguish. I wonder if he’s getting a little tired of playing ‘hurt’ Sam. But probably not hard to play tired Sam with a new baby at home. (Speaking of baby, do you really think that’s baby’s name or was she implying Mark was at their house watching with them) This show makes me question everything! HA
I will stop. Just please JC, don’t hurt my baby Dean. My mama heart is breaking and I have a stomach ache like I get when something in my real life feels wrong or when I feel something bad is about to happen. Oh show.
I am a total wreck! Loved the episode, but I am literally sick to my stomach over my boy Dean. The minute Cain told the story about his brother I turned to my friend and said “OH God no, Dean is Cain, Sam is Abel. Do you think the season or series will end with some kind of parallel?”
I brought up what the angels always said about them being direct blood line from Cain/Abel. God NOOOO! I couldn’t be more nervous and sick if it were real life. I’m not kidding.
Then I saw the mark and again I turned to my friend and said, “He’s going to give that thing to DEAN!!!” I was shouting, NO,No,No,No Dean, my baby! (I know, I’ve gone over the edge.) I’ve never said OMG, full version, so many times in an episode.
I am so afraid of where this is going to send Dean. He is being so wreckless. Reminds me of some previous seasons, but oh man, he’s in such a dark place. And will he tell/show Sam?
After we met Cain all I could think about was the family history, the parallels and Lucifer in a brother. Selling a soul for your brother. My mind is swimming and I can’t type fast enough to get it all out, nor even come up with lucid, progressive thoughts.
I rewatched right away and I did not watch a third time online like usual at midnight because frankly, I don’t think I’d sleep if I watch it again.
Jensen literally threw himself into this episode. Body and soul. I am loving this season, but miss huggy Dean from last season. I think it’s going to take a LOT to get him out of this state and hugging again. He is burying his emotions, and that is exactly how Lucifer wanted Sam to be when he took over. Full of rage and a thirst for revenge, I don’t like my Dean in this place. God help him.
I’m just rambling I know. Sorry. Still so much more to say on the Cain/Abel and Dean/Sam thing. I’m a mess. The writers are the bomb for making me feel like this. I HATE them. JK of course. Love this show.
Jared and Misha were great. The hug, the talk, just oh. I love how Cas has retained some of his human feelings. I love it actually. I feel he got through to Sam. Jared enduring more pain and anguish. I wonder if he’s getting a little tired of playing ‘hurt’ Sam. But probably not hard to play tired Sam with a new baby at home. (Speaking of baby, do you really think that’s baby’s name or was she implying Mark was at their house watching with them) This show makes me question everything! HA
I will stop. Just please JC, don’t hurt my baby Dean. My mama heart is breaking and I have a stomach ache like I get when something in my real life feels wrong or when I feel something bad is about to happen. Oh show.
First reaction, and they say first reaction is the honest one… Yet, I may change my opinion after re-watch.
Did the Abbadean scene at 9.02 was foreshadowing for this episode? During the ‘very sexy’ scene Abbadon did reveal her interest in wearing Dean as vessel. She said Dean is the perfect vessel (for demon?). Now, Dean is worthy to wear the mark of Cain. The first killer, Lucifer’s first follower? And if Sam is the Lucifer’s perfect vessel (because of demon blood) Why do I feel that this episode is fanfiction heavy?
On a second note, I kind of squee-ing right now over Dean Cain because I’ve been waiting since “SKIN” to have Jensen Ackles plays Bad/Evil Dean. Jared has had his turn in playing the evil persona of Sam many times. Oooohhhh Evil Dean! Looking forward to your appearance.
First reaction, and they say first reaction is the honest one… Yet, I may change my opinion after re-watch.
Did the Abbadean scene at 9.02 was foreshadowing for this episode? During the ‘very sexy’ scene Abbadon did reveal her interest in wearing Dean as vessel. She said Dean is the perfect vessel (for demon?). Now, Dean is worthy to wear the mark of Cain. The first killer, Lucifer’s first follower? And if Sam is the Lucifer’s perfect vessel (because of demon blood) Why do I feel that this episode is fanfiction heavy?
On a second note, I kind of squee-ing right now over Dean Cain because I’ve been waiting since “SKIN” to have Jensen Ackles plays Bad/Evil Dean. Jared has had his turn in playing the evil persona of Sam many times. Oooohhhh Evil Dean! Looking forward to your appearance.
[quote name=”The Handsome One”]Dean is the new Cain? One step closer to Abaddean.
Yum.[/quote]
Right? right? Of course it is.
[quote]Dean is the new Cain? One step closer to Abaddean.
Yum.[/quote]
Right? right? Of course it is.
#18 winmomwannabe
“After we met Cain all I could think about was the family history, the parallels and Lucifer in a brother. Selling a soul for your brother”.
My thoughts exactly. Is Dean going to be put in a position where he feels he needs to kill Sam to save him? Talk about a lose, lose situation. Dean loses his soul & Sam.
I absolutely loved Tim Omundson. He doesn’t get to be such a powerhouse as Lassiter on Psych. And, Crowley & Dean were great together. As for the Cas & Sam hug, I kept getting the feeling that Sam was going to steel something from Cas’ pocket. I guess I’m too suspicious
#18 winmomwannabe
“After we met Cain all I could think about was the family history, the parallels and Lucifer in a brother. Selling a soul for your brother”.
My thoughts exactly. Is Dean going to be put in a position where he feels he needs to kill Sam to save him? Talk about a lose, lose situation. Dean loses his soul & Sam.
I absolutely loved Tim Omundson. He doesn’t get to be such a powerhouse as Lassiter on Psych. And, Crowley & Dean were great together. As for the Cas & Sam hug, I kept getting the feeling that Sam was going to steel something from Cas’ pocket. I guess I’m too suspicious
OMG, so much emotion for this episode. Dean is the new Cain! I’m looking forward to seeing evil Dean, but I am so worried over all the implications involved. Does this mean that Dean is now immortal? SPN forever! 😆 All I can say is I loved Dean & Crowley together, like Crowley said “I love a Buddy comedy”. And Sam with Cas, that was good. That hug! I’ve been waiting for that hug since season 6 when they almost hugged, but didn’t. 😛 So now, both Cas & Crowley have a little human in them, and Sam & Dean have a little angel & demon each. Oh my. 😳
Thanks you Robbie Thompson for a great episode, I do believe you’ve become my favourite writer.
OMG, so much emotion for this episode. Dean is the new Cain! I’m looking forward to seeing evil Dean, but I am so worried over all the implications involved. Does this mean that Dean is now immortal? SPN forever! 😆 All I can say is I loved Dean & Crowley together, like Crowley said “I love a Buddy comedy”. And Sam with Cas, that was good. That hug! I’ve been waiting for that hug since season 6 when they almost hugged, but didn’t. 😛 So now, both Cas & Crowley have a little human in them, and Sam & Dean have a little angel & demon each. Oh my. 😳
Thanks you Robbie Thompson for a great episode, I do believe you’ve become my favourite writer.
Wow – they covered a lot of territory in this one; very close parallels to S4, with the brother’s roles reversed. I liked this one a lot but had to watch a second time to pick up on everything.
As far as Cain goes; it sounds like he was the first demon; was he also a Knight of Hell, or did he just train them? I liked the twist on him being the one that killed them, and not the archangels.
Looks like Dean might go dark side? I don’t think wearing the mark of Cain makes Dean a demon (say that 3 times fast) but reenforces his personal view that he’s just good at killing. That fight scene was kick ass; Jensen must have been exhausted after filming that day. Glad to see that Dean realized that Crowley manipulated him from the get go. Not sure where they’re going with the Mark of Cain thing, but it can’t be good for Dean. Dean and Crowley were great together; yes, Crowley played Dean but you could see how frightened he was of Cain. Will Dean tell Sam about this or will they be yet another secret between them that Sam has to find out on his own?
One of the first things that crossed my mind; I think the Mark of Cain would be considered evil; since the MOL bunker is warded against all known evil, can Dean get back in the MOL bunker?
So glad the show finally acknowledged the parallels between Sam and Castiel. Castiel’s time as a human has clearly changed him for the better, and it sounds as though he got thru to Sam. Just a guess here but Sam and Castiel are going to end up having to save Dean from being consumed by darkness/evil.
I’m glad they didn’t have the brothers reunite in this episode; given everything that has transpired, it would have felt forced/unnatural. Even when they do get back together (looks like next week), they’re still gonna have a lot of crap to work thru before they’re on the same page again.
There was an error/oversight in the opening “Then” part, where Sam mentioned, in regards to Kevin’s death, that “the thought of someone else being hurt because of me, I can’t live with that” – this must have been cut from the last episode because it didn’t happen. Have they ever done that before, included footage that wasn’t actually included in an episode? I can understand why it was done, to explain Sam’s mind set, but it just seemed kind of sloppy to me.
Wow – they covered a lot of territory in this one; very close parallels to S4, with the brother’s roles reversed. I liked this one a lot but had to watch a second time to pick up on everything.
As far as Cain goes; it sounds like he was the first demon; was he also a Knight of Hell, or did he just train them? I liked the twist on him being the one that killed them, and not the archangels.
Looks like Dean might go dark side? I don’t think wearing the mark of Cain makes Dean a demon (say that 3 times fast) but reenforces his personal view that he’s just good at killing. That fight scene was kick ass; Jensen must have been exhausted after filming that day. Glad to see that Dean realized that Crowley manipulated him from the get go. Not sure where they’re going with the Mark of Cain thing, but it can’t be good for Dean. Dean and Crowley were great together; yes, Crowley played Dean but you could see how frightened he was of Cain. Will Dean tell Sam about this or will they be yet another secret between them that Sam has to find out on his own?
One of the first things that crossed my mind; I think the Mark of Cain would be considered evil; since the MOL bunker is warded against all known evil, can Dean get back in the MOL bunker?
So glad the show finally acknowledged the parallels between Sam and Castiel. Castiel’s time as a human has clearly changed him for the better, and it sounds as though he got thru to Sam. Just a guess here but Sam and Castiel are going to end up having to save Dean from being consumed by darkness/evil.
I’m glad they didn’t have the brothers reunite in this episode; given everything that has transpired, it would have felt forced/unnatural. Even when they do get back together (looks like next week), they’re still gonna have a lot of crap to work thru before they’re on the same page again.
There was an error/oversight in the opening “Then” part, where Sam mentioned, in regards to Kevin’s death, that “the thought of someone else being hurt because of me, I can’t live with that” – this must have been cut from the last episode because it didn’t happen. Have they ever done that before, included footage that wasn’t actually included in an episode? I can understand why it was done, to explain Sam’s mind set, but it just seemed kind of sloppy to me.
Wow, kickass episode! Dean and Crowley together was great. Maybe Dean didn’t want the warning instructions that came with the mark of Cain but I sure would have liked to know them. Jensen is really knocking it out of the park with these last two episodes. Tim Omundson was great as well. Although I usually love Garth, I don’t really want a one off next week. I want more of this story.
Wow, kickass episode! Dean and Crowley together was great. Maybe Dean didn’t want the warning instructions that came with the mark of Cain but I sure would have liked to know them. Jensen is really knocking it out of the park with these last two episodes. Tim Omundson was great as well. Although I usually love Garth, I don’t really want a one off next week. I want more of this story.
Usually eps in which the boys have little to no interaction are not my forte, but this one was well done all around. Loved finally seeing some Sam-Cas interaction, and finally someone on screen mentioning how alike those 2 really are. Although, did Cas REALLY remove all the grace? Seemed kinda wishy-washy after the fact, like maybe he had to leave some in Sam to really keep him healed…dunno…maybe we’ll find out later.
I do like Sam’s confusion/frustration as to where he is right now in his feelings. It seems to fit. Cas was a good counter to that. Trying in his semi-awkward way to get Sam to see past those feelings, but walking that line carefully at the same time.
The Dean-Crowley team was quite entertaining. Mark S never fails to disappoint.
Too bad they had to kill Tara though. I liked what little I saw of her, although it continued the storyline of ‘Dean is poison’. He should just stay away from other humans in general. LOL!
Loved seeing Tim O. in something different. I’ve been a huge Psych fan forever, so to see him dive into a dramatic role on my favorite show and to be so darn good at it. Awesome. I’m not big on my Cain & Abel knowledge, but the whole Mark of Cain thing seems like a good way to insert a new arc into the storyline that would (I would think) extend into next year. Of course, the big question..does Dean tell Sam about it once they’re talking again? LOL! Because we know how those things go with these crazy brothers. 🙂
Entertaining ep last night. Garth next week, huh? Usually he has a part to play in helping the boys see the light, so who knows where this one goes. He’s always fun in his own Don Knotts kinda way.
Usually eps in which the boys have little to no interaction are not my forte, but this one was well done all around. Loved finally seeing some Sam-Cas interaction, and finally someone on screen mentioning how alike those 2 really are. Although, did Cas REALLY remove all the grace? Seemed kinda wishy-washy after the fact, like maybe he had to leave some in Sam to really keep him healed…dunno…maybe we’ll find out later.
I do like Sam’s confusion/frustration as to where he is right now in his feelings. It seems to fit. Cas was a good counter to that. Trying in his semi-awkward way to get Sam to see past those feelings, but walking that line carefully at the same time.
The Dean-Crowley team was quite entertaining. Mark S never fails to disappoint.
Too bad they had to kill Tara though. I liked what little I saw of her, although it continued the storyline of ‘Dean is poison’. He should just stay away from other humans in general. LOL!
Loved seeing Tim O. in something different. I’ve been a huge Psych fan forever, so to see him dive into a dramatic role on my favorite show and to be so darn good at it. Awesome. I’m not big on my Cain & Abel knowledge, but the whole Mark of Cain thing seems like a good way to insert a new arc into the storyline that would (I would think) extend into next year. Of course, the big question..does Dean tell Sam about it once they’re talking again? LOL! Because we know how those things go with these crazy brothers. 🙂
Entertaining ep last night. Garth next week, huh? Usually he has a part to play in helping the boys see the light, so who knows where this one goes. He’s always fun in his own Don Knotts kinda way.
Dean Cain… will he have a cape and fly? Sorry, had to said it LOL… I love the episode and I love the Dean/Crowley interaction, hopefully will see more since Superman, sorry, since Dean Cain has a demonic twist. Do I see a reverse role here? Dean/Demon, Sam/Angel?
Dean Cain… will he have a cape and fly? Sorry, had to said it LOL… I love the episode and I love the Dean/Crowley interaction, hopefully will see more since Superman, sorry, since Dean Cain has a demonic twist. Do I see a reverse role here? Dean/Demon, Sam/Angel?
For a shipping name, I like the “Crean” one. It sounds much juicier, with a topping of dirty.
I just spent some time wandering around some esoteric footnotes and now that Dean has the mark, he also has command of the Knights Templar. (If your an initiated Templar, then we can swap sources. I found it in your own footnotes… Other then that, please, no layman spats)
If you amp up the power switch of the Templars to mythical rumors, and Dean now can utilize them…. That would certainly be … interesting.
I would be interested in seeing evil Dean. I think his story was shortsheeted from when he was pulled from Hell. After all, he just spent a decade immersed in being a torturer, and LIKING it. I always thought he shrugged off that bit of him way too easily. We only skimmed the surface of what repercussions that may have held for Dean. With the mark upon him, will the echoes reverberate and turn back into a shout?
Sam and Cas. I like it. I think that this paring makes sense. They both have a lot in common, and can see those two having a healing and stabilizing affect on each other. Plus, we all caught that Sam still has some grace. What does that mean?
Cas has a boatload of unanswered potential questions. I wouldn’t even know where to start. But, I would like to hope that at the end of it all… Well, I’ll keep that to myself for now. But I’m watching…
Season 10 is in the bag, so we have time to slow down a little and watch something fantastic unfold in these storylines. With that in mind, I’m perfectly happy to see the brothers apart, for quite awhile. Right now it makes sense. I’ve seen storylines cut short when expanding on the themes could have brought the show to an even deeper level.
Random: Dimensional vibrations overlap a little, so I would like to see them push the physics a little and have some things happen at the fringes of heaven and hell. Probabilities and quantum laws would be a mite different, which would allow for actions to occur that couldn’t happen smack dab in the middle of this plane. Oh, the possibilities.
Hmmm. Possibilities. Maybe that’s what I got out of all this. A story arc at a crossroad. Potential all around. ANYTHING could happen next.
I am soooo freakin’ excited!!!
*Looks at watch* is it next tuesday yet?
For a shipping name, I like the “Crean” one. It sounds much juicier, with a topping of dirty.
I just spent some time wandering around some esoteric footnotes and now that Dean has the mark, he also has command of the Knights Templar. (If your an initiated Templar, then we can swap sources. I found it in your own footnotes… Other then that, please, no layman spats)
If you amp up the power switch of the Templars to mythical rumors, and Dean now can utilize them…. That would certainly be … interesting.
I would be interested in seeing evil Dean. I think his story was shortsheeted from when he was pulled from Hell. After all, he just spent a decade immersed in being a torturer, and LIKING it. I always thought he shrugged off that bit of him way too easily. We only skimmed the surface of what repercussions that may have held for Dean. With the mark upon him, will the echoes reverberate and turn back into a shout?
Sam and Cas. I like it. I think that this paring makes sense. They both have a lot in common, and can see those two having a healing and stabilizing affect on each other. Plus, we all caught that Sam still has some grace. What does that mean?
Cas has a boatload of unanswered potential questions. I wouldn’t even know where to start. But, I would like to hope that at the end of it all… Well, I’ll keep that to myself for now. But I’m watching…
Season 10 is in the bag, so we have time to slow down a little and watch something fantastic unfold in these storylines. With that in mind, I’m perfectly happy to see the brothers apart, for quite awhile. Right now it makes sense. I’ve seen storylines cut short when expanding on the themes could have brought the show to an even deeper level.
Random: Dimensional vibrations overlap a little, so I would like to see them push the physics a little and have some things happen at the fringes of heaven and hell. Probabilities and quantum laws would be a mite different, which would allow for actions to occur that couldn’t happen smack dab in the middle of this plane. Oh, the possibilities.
Hmmm. Possibilities. Maybe that’s what I got out of all this. A story arc at a crossroad. Potential all around. ANYTHING could happen next.
I am soooo freakin’ excited!!!
*Looks at watch* is it next tuesday yet?
This opens so many story lines. Does the mark mean Dean has superpowers? Can he control demons? Will he become the King of Hell? Oh wow! Tim was fantastic. When I was typing Dean I accidently typed the S for Sean. He He.
This opens so many story lines. Does the mark mean Dean has superpowers? Can he control demons? Will he become the King of Hell? Oh wow! Tim was fantastic. When I was typing Dean I accidently typed the S for Sean. He He.
[quote name=”mary9930″]#18 winmomwannabe
“After we met Cain all I could think about was the family history, the parallels and Lucifer in a brother. Selling a soul for your brother”.
My thoughts exactly. Is Dean going to be put in a position where he feels he needs to kill Sam to save him? Talk about a lose, lose situation. Dean loses his soul & Sam.
I absolutely loved Tim Omundson. He doesn’t get to be such a powerhouse as Lassiter on Psych. And, Crowley & Dean were great together. As for the Cas & Sam hug, I kept getting the feeling that Sam was going to steel something from Cas’ pocket. I guess I’m too suspicious[/quote]
Or, like with Cain and Collette, Abaddon possesses Sam (Sam is anti-possession tattoo-less now), and Dean has to kill Sam in order to kill Abaddon.
[quote]#18 winmomwannabe
“After we met Cain all I could think about was the family history, the parallels and Lucifer in a brother. Selling a soul for your brother”.
My thoughts exactly. Is Dean going to be put in a position where he feels he needs to kill Sam to save him? Talk about a lose, lose situation. Dean loses his soul & Sam.
I absolutely loved Tim Omundson. He doesn’t get to be such a powerhouse as Lassiter on Psych. And, Crowley & Dean were great together. As for the Cas & Sam hug, I kept getting the feeling that Sam was going to steel something from Cas’ pocket. I guess I’m too suspicious[/quote]
Or, like with Cain and Collette, Abaddon possesses Sam (Sam is anti-possession tattoo-less now), and Dean has to kill Sam in order to kill Abaddon.
I loved everything about this episode, especially Timothy Omundson, the Corwley/Dean “buddy comedy” and the Sam/Cas interaction. I thought I had seen Cain elements in Dean’s story arc this season, and now I know why. Dean might not actually have killed his brother, but he came close. Besides, letting an angel possess his brother against his will and lying to him about it doesn’t seem like that much of a lesser transgression than murder. Now we know that Supernatural’s version of Cain even had the same motivations as Dean. I thought the retelling of that story was well done, complete with references such as “Where is your brother?” I really wonder what the price the mark of Cain comes with is. I suppose we’ll just have to wait and see.
I like where they went with Castiel in these two episodes of the second half of the season.His experience as a human seems to have led to some growth and made him able to put things into perspective.
Crowley was being his usual self..or was he? Maybe I’m reading too much into things, but there were moments where Crowley seemed oddly human. He did manipulate Dean, and his fear of Cain might have been overplayed, but it wasn’t entirely faked. In fact, from what we have seen of Cain, Crowley did have every reason to be afraid of him, yet his plan included exposing himself to Cain and Abaddon’s minions. The plan relied entirely on the fact that Dean would impress Cain enough to get the mark. For someone with self-preservation instincts as strong as Crowley’s, that shows quite some trust in Dean (and Dean actually did kill three demons alone this time – he really is awesome). There is also the final conversation between Crowley and Dean. Crowley tells Dean that his problem is that no one hates Dean more than he hates himself – not even Crowley. To me, that didn’t sound like a taunt, but uncharacteristically sincere. Is it just me, or was Crowley actually showing sympathy? Of course it’s Crowley, but considering how invested he was in saving Sam in “Road Trip”, correcting Sam when he asked if he had killed Kevin, I have to wonder. I liked how Castiel and Crowley both carefully suggested that they might need help, and both Winchesters were too stubborn to take the hint.
I loved everything about this episode, especially Timothy Omundson, the Corwley/Dean “buddy comedy” and the Sam/Cas interaction. I thought I had seen Cain elements in Dean’s story arc this season, and now I know why. Dean might not actually have killed his brother, but he came close. Besides, letting an angel possess his brother against his will and lying to him about it doesn’t seem like that much of a lesser transgression than murder. Now we know that Supernatural’s version of Cain even had the same motivations as Dean. I thought the retelling of that story was well done, complete with references such as “Where is your brother?” I really wonder what the price the mark of Cain comes with is. I suppose we’ll just have to wait and see.
I like where they went with Castiel in these two episodes of the second half of the season.His experience as a human seems to have led to some growth and made him able to put things into perspective.
Crowley was being his usual self..or was he? Maybe I’m reading too much into things, but there were moments where Crowley seemed oddly human. He did manipulate Dean, and his fear of Cain might have been overplayed, but it wasn’t entirely faked. In fact, from what we have seen of Cain, Crowley did have every reason to be afraid of him, yet his plan included exposing himself to Cain and Abaddon’s minions. The plan relied entirely on the fact that Dean would impress Cain enough to get the mark. For someone with self-preservation instincts as strong as Crowley’s, that shows quite some trust in Dean (and Dean actually did kill three demons alone this time – he really is awesome). There is also the final conversation between Crowley and Dean. Crowley tells Dean that his problem is that no one hates Dean more than he hates himself – not even Crowley. To me, that didn’t sound like a taunt, but uncharacteristically sincere. Is it just me, or was Crowley actually showing sympathy? Of course it’s Crowley, but considering how invested he was in saving Sam in “Road Trip”, correcting Sam when he asked if he had killed Kevin, I have to wonder. I liked how Castiel and Crowley both carefully suggested that they might need help, and both Winchesters were too stubborn to take the hint.
okay…this could go so many ways now that Dean has the “mark” And knowing the great story lines they’ve had…I have no fear that they will not let us down.
Remember they are only going till season 10…so they might have to start ending this huge story of the Winchesters.
possible future for Dean and Sam…Dean will be immortal (since he has the mark) but not turn evil since he’s THE Righteous Man…pulled from Hell and always does the right thing ,the hard way. So his job will be the ultimate hunter on Earth to protect and seek out and destroy evil, til the end of time.
Well Sam…I don’t know…but they (brothers) won’t be together and they both will be okay with that. I really hope they do something great for Sam’s character.
Cas will stay with Dean Since he feels he has so much to make up for…(being God..and killing), also he has a bond with Dean. This way since both are immortal.. they won’t be alone thur all the times ahead, and Cas will be the brother Dean needs thur all that.
Okay that’s what I think…who the frick knows..I just know I won’t be disappointed with what ever they do.
SORRY for errors in writing and spelling.
okay…this could go so many ways now that Dean has the “mark” And knowing the great story lines they’ve had…I have no fear that they will not let us down.
Remember they are only going till season 10…so they might have to start ending this huge story of the Winchesters.
possible future for Dean and Sam…Dean will be immortal (since he has the mark) but not turn evil since he’s THE Righteous Man…pulled from Hell and always does the right thing ,the hard way. So his job will be the ultimate hunter on Earth to protect and seek out and destroy evil, til the end of time.
Well Sam…I don’t know…but they (brothers) won’t be together and they both will be okay with that. I really hope they do something great for Sam’s character.
Cas will stay with Dean Since he feels he has so much to make up for…(being God..and killing), also he has a bond with Dean. This way since both are immortal.. they won’t be alone thur all the times ahead, and Cas will be the brother Dean needs thur all that.
Okay that’s what I think…who the frick knows..I just know I won’t be disappointed with what ever they do.
SORRY for errors in writing and spelling.
keep reading comments where they say that the MoC made Dean immortal – I don’t think that was established, was it?
keep reading comments where they say that the MoC made Dean immortal – I don’t think that was established, was it?
Remember they are only going till season 10…so they might have to start ending this huge story of the Winchesters.
Just as a note, although Jared and Jensen are only signed through season 10 they have both said they would go longer if they are happy with the quality of the show. Supernatural was the number one show in the demographic last week and it went up in this week’s preliminary numbers giving the CW a lot of reason to keep it around after season 10. Mark Pedowitz stated that as far as he’s concerned Supernatural an run for more than 10 seasons. So although they may only go to season 10 that is not a done deal and so this may not be leading to a wrap up of the series.
Remember they are only going till season 10…so they might have to start ending this huge story of the Winchesters.
Just as a note, although Jared and Jensen are only signed through season 10 they have both said they would go longer if they are happy with the quality of the show. Supernatural was the number one show in the demographic last week and it went up in this week’s preliminary numbers giving the CW a lot of reason to keep it around after season 10. Mark Pedowitz stated that as far as he’s concerned Supernatural an run for more than 10 seasons. So although they may only go to season 10 that is not a done deal and so this may not be leading to a wrap up of the series.
I have been waiting for the Cain & Abel story to come back around since season 6. In my own studies of this biblical and pre-biblical tale I found Sam & Dean’s story to be quite similar. Although there are lots of interpretations, I have oft thought that the tale of an older brother with the burden of watching over his little brother, only to sacrifice him in the end was very much a parallel to Cain & Abel. This is a tale of a man whose sacrifices were never accepted by god not because of what he sacrificed but because of HOW he sacrificed (“I’ve sacrificed enough”). It was not until he killed his own brother that he was marked by god (Castiel) to LIVE for a year, protected from anyone that wanted to take revenge by the mark on him placed there by god. In many of the stories he is told to have lived alone but in others he lived with his wife and children (Lisa & Ben). In many he was jealous that his brother got to do things, have a wife & children and a home, but he had sacrificed everything to give his brother that. There are many different versions which have then been interpreted differently depending on the culture (don’t worry, I won’t get into those).
I love what SPN does with any mythology, twisting it, reinterpreting, they are so good at that. But since I’ve actually built my own canon as Dean & Sam relate to Cain & Abel and I was excited about what they would do, I didn’t want to go into it with the interpretation I have had since season 6 began (with the exile of Dean for a year after sacrificing his own brother). I didn’t want my POV to hinder my delight at finally seeing what the Show showed. So I took a few deep breaths and left all that behind.
Show wants to show us that Abel was bad and Cain was the hero – therefore Sam was bad and Dean the hero, despite the fact that Dean wouldn’t allow Sam his heaven (twice) yet agreed to allow him to sacrifice himself to eternal damnation, but Cain still says “you chose to save your brother” when infact it was Cain that chose to save his brother by killing him. Gotta love those mixed messages and I have no idea where the “mark of Cain” will take us.
Now, I have never been one to see either brother as worse or better than the other, they both made serious errors along the sequence of events that led them to this point, and they were both seriously manipulated by a conspiracy of Angels and Demons in order to open the gates of hell then to release Lucifer. And I have always been pretty comfortable in believing that this conspiracy would have worked no matter what they decided; Sam goes alone then Dean can be told the truth and get to the church just a few seconds too late. Dean goes alone and he can kill Lillith and release Luci. They go together and….well, you get it. So I’ve never viewed it as Sam’s big failure (tho he does and so does everyone around him…so sad).
Anyway, once I stepped out of my preconceived ideas about Cain, I surely did enjoy this ride. Drowley was fantabulous, Cain was awesome and Sam & Cas were very entertaining. A great fight scene where Dean doesn’t just lose his knife right away and Crowley gets pushed around too. And questions; angel grace, mark of Cain by Lucifer! Knight s of hell made by Cain. It was all around great episode, likely because it had little in common with my head-canon. These folks (Cast & Crew) just continue to amaze me.
#23 Yes, I’ve often seen deleted bits in the “then” portion and also on the sneak peeks. Usually only a few words or maybe a different camera POV.
I have been waiting for the Cain & Abel story to come back around since season 6. In my own studies of this biblical and pre-biblical tale I found Sam & Dean’s story to be quite similar. Although there are lots of interpretations, I have oft thought that the tale of an older brother with the burden of watching over his little brother, only to sacrifice him in the end was very much a parallel to Cain & Abel. This is a tale of a man whose sacrifices were never accepted by god not because of what he sacrificed but because of HOW he sacrificed (“I’ve sacrificed enough”). It was not until he killed his own brother that he was marked by god (Castiel) to LIVE for a year, protected from anyone that wanted to take revenge by the mark on him placed there by god. In many of the stories he is told to have lived alone but in others he lived with his wife and children (Lisa & Ben). In many he was jealous that his brother got to do things, have a wife & children and a home, but he had sacrificed everything to give his brother that. There are many different versions which have then been interpreted differently depending on the culture (don’t worry, I won’t get into those).
I love what SPN does with any mythology, twisting it, reinterpreting, they are so good at that. But since I’ve actually built my own canon as Dean & Sam relate to Cain & Abel and I was excited about what they would do, I didn’t want to go into it with the interpretation I have had since season 6 began (with the exile of Dean for a year after sacrificing his own brother). I didn’t want my POV to hinder my delight at finally seeing what the Show showed. So I took a few deep breaths and left all that behind.
Show wants to show us that Abel was bad and Cain was the hero – therefore Sam was bad and Dean the hero, despite the fact that Dean wouldn’t allow Sam his heaven (twice) yet agreed to allow him to sacrifice himself to eternal damnation, but Cain still says “you chose to save your brother” when infact it was Cain that chose to save his brother by killing him. Gotta love those mixed messages and I have no idea where the “mark of Cain” will take us.
Now, I have never been one to see either brother as worse or better than the other, they both made serious errors along the sequence of events that led them to this point, and they were both seriously manipulated by a conspiracy of Angels and Demons in order to open the gates of hell then to release Lucifer. And I have always been pretty comfortable in believing that this conspiracy would have worked no matter what they decided; Sam goes alone then Dean can be told the truth and get to the church just a few seconds too late. Dean goes alone and he can kill Lillith and release Luci. They go together and….well, you get it. So I’ve never viewed it as Sam’s big failure (tho he does and so does everyone around him…so sad).
Anyway, once I stepped out of my preconceived ideas about Cain, I surely did enjoy this ride. Drowley was fantabulous, Cain was awesome and Sam & Cas were very entertaining. A great fight scene where Dean doesn’t just lose his knife right away and Crowley gets pushed around too. And questions; angel grace, mark of Cain by Lucifer! Knight s of hell made by Cain. It was all around great episode, likely because it had little in common with my head-canon. These folks (Cast & Crew) just continue to amaze me.
#23 Yes, I’ve often seen deleted bits in the “then” portion and also on the sneak peeks. Usually only a few words or maybe a different camera POV.
[quote name=”ThisOldBag”]……
#23 Yes, I’ve often seen deleted bits in the “then” portion and also on the sneak peeks. Usually only a few words or maybe a different camera POV.[/quote]
ThisOldBag – thanks, afterwards, I also remembered a couple of instances of this happening; this one was particularly jarring, though.
I like your take on the Cain and Abel story…
[quote]……
#23 Yes, I’ve often seen deleted bits in the “then” portion and also on the sneak peeks. Usually only a few words or maybe a different camera POV.[/quote]
ThisOldBag – thanks, afterwards, I also remembered a couple of instances of this happening; this one was particularly jarring, though.
I like your take on the Cain and Abel story…
Well, I am going against the tide here but I didn’t love it. Last week everything felt right. This one felt a little forced and soapy to me. I did enjoy some of the new story elements, the direction they are taking the story could be interesting. I didn’t enjoy Cas telling Sam that “the only person who has screwed things up more consistently than you is me”. I get that they were supposed to be bonding over their missteps and I like that idea but I didn’t think that line was necessary. They feel bad, I get it. It just felt off to me including the hug. I am tired of Sam being tortured every episode. In this one the idea that Sam is a royal screw-up was underlined. I didn’t like that and the idea that he needs to keep atoning. Over and over.
I did enjoy Omundson’s guest star turn, It was also nice to see a physically strong female hunter. Some of the petite little women who have played hunters in the past stretched credibility (even though I loved most of them). Crowley, awesome as usual. I loved Cas and Sam becoming closer, just not the execution of those scenes. The idea that Dean might go dark is interesting, if so, I want Sam to pull him back.
I don’t know, maybe I just dislike episodes where the boys are separated and at odds. Ones that have them wallowing in self-hate. I want them to get back to each other with a better understanding of each other and themselves. They’ll never be models of mental health after what they have been through but if this drags out for too long (like S7) it won’t be good.
Well, I am going against the tide here but I didn’t love it. Last week everything felt right. This one felt a little forced and soapy to me. I did enjoy some of the new story elements, the direction they are taking the story could be interesting. I didn’t enjoy Cas telling Sam that “the only person who has screwed things up more consistently than you is me”. I get that they were supposed to be bonding over their missteps and I like that idea but I didn’t think that line was necessary. They feel bad, I get it. It just felt off to me including the hug. I am tired of Sam being tortured every episode. In this one the idea that Sam is a royal screw-up was underlined. I didn’t like that and the idea that he needs to keep atoning. Over and over.
I did enjoy Omundson’s guest star turn, It was also nice to see a physically strong female hunter. Some of the petite little women who have played hunters in the past stretched credibility (even though I loved most of them). Crowley, awesome as usual. I loved Cas and Sam becoming closer, just not the execution of those scenes. The idea that Dean might go dark is interesting, if so, I want Sam to pull him back.
I don’t know, maybe I just dislike episodes where the boys are separated and at odds. Ones that have them wallowing in self-hate. I want them to get back to each other with a better understanding of each other and themselves. They’ll never be models of mental health after what they have been through but if this drags out for too long (like S7) it won’t be good.
I liked a lot of this episode, but like [b]leah d[/b] I had issues. I love Tim Omundson and have ever since Judging Amy. He did a great job as Cain. Crowley was his typical ambiguous self.
I have wanted a Sam/Cas interaction for a long time now. I was not thrilled that Cas basically told Sam that he has made more mistakes than any human being since the beginning of time. Cas said he made more mistakes, but all those were when he was an angel, so Sam gets the worst person ever award. I know the writers didn’t mean for it come off that way, but to me it did.
I’m also less than thrilled that now that Dean=Cain and Sam=Abel suddenly Abel is being portrayed as the “bad guy” with Cain being the self-sacrificial brother willing to give up everything for him. It does not bode well for a sympathetic view of Sam, yet again. This is also bothersome because our view of Abel is totally and completely through Cain’s eyes, the guy who murdered him. It feels too much like the way we hear about Sam’s motives from well just about anyone except Sam.
So I have some issues with this episode.
I liked a lot of this episode, but like [b]leah d[/b] I had issues. I love Tim Omundson and have ever since Judging Amy. He did a great job as Cain. Crowley was his typical ambiguous self.
I have wanted a Sam/Cas interaction for a long time now. I was not thrilled that Cas basically told Sam that he has made more mistakes than any human being since the beginning of time. Cas said he made more mistakes, but all those were when he was an angel, so Sam gets the worst person ever award. I know the writers didn’t mean for it come off that way, but to me it did.
I’m also less than thrilled that now that Dean=Cain and Sam=Abel suddenly Abel is being portrayed as the “bad guy” with Cain being the self-sacrificial brother willing to give up everything for him. It does not bode well for a sympathetic view of Sam, yet again. This is also bothersome because our view of Abel is totally and completely through Cain’s eyes, the guy who murdered him. It feels too much like the way we hear about Sam’s motives from well just about anyone except Sam.
So I have some issues with this episode.
I had huge problems with the episode as well, maybe partly because after having so little Sam in the first half of the season, now that we have him back, I was craving some major Sam time… and we got another Dean ep. instead. (that’s not Sam vs Dean, I’m just saying I miss Sam and would love a Sam-centered episode just about now.
Aside from that, I’m not sure what happened with the Sam/Cas scenes. To me, the dialogue was really clunky and the scenes too short to reach me emotionally. Was the purpose of the grace removal that was all for nothing just to show that Sam is reeling from the possession and killing Kevin and now doesn’t care if he lives or die? Was Cas apologizing for taking down Sam’s wall (that would be lovely) or just saying that he’s sorry in general? What exactly was Sam saying that Cas was right about? I definitely need to rewatch that part.
About the Dean story, I don’t understand why Dean would take on the mark of Lucifer to kill Abbadon. It’s totally incomprehensible to me, especially when he knows it’s evil and didn’t even want to know what the cost is. I understand that he is suicidal as this point, but why damning his soul to Hell? I don’t get it at all. Besides, I thought he was on a revenge quest to kill Gadreel?
The fight was fun, if you forget that demons have supernatural strength and any one of them could have pinned Dean to the wall. And I guess if you forget about all the hosts.
About the Cain/Abel parallel, if Abel was the one corrupted by Lucifer in the SPN universe, then Sam doesn’t fit the Abel character at all right now. He’s more in line with the angels, so I don’t know.
Just to keep things positive, lol, I liked the hug.
I had huge problems with the episode as well, maybe partly because after having so little Sam in the first half of the season, now that we have him back, I was craving some major Sam time… and we got another Dean ep. instead. (that’s not Sam vs Dean, I’m just saying I miss Sam and would love a Sam-centered episode just about now.
Aside from that, I’m not sure what happened with the Sam/Cas scenes. To me, the dialogue was really clunky and the scenes too short to reach me emotionally. Was the purpose of the grace removal that was all for nothing just to show that Sam is reeling from the possession and killing Kevin and now doesn’t care if he lives or die? Was Cas apologizing for taking down Sam’s wall (that would be lovely) or just saying that he’s sorry in general? What exactly was Sam saying that Cas was right about? I definitely need to rewatch that part.
About the Dean story, I don’t understand why Dean would take on the mark of Lucifer to kill Abbadon. It’s totally incomprehensible to me, especially when he knows it’s evil and didn’t even want to know what the cost is. I understand that he is suicidal as this point, but why damning his soul to Hell? I don’t get it at all. Besides, I thought he was on a revenge quest to kill Gadreel?
The fight was fun, if you forget that demons have supernatural strength and any one of them could have pinned Dean to the wall. And I guess if you forget about all the hosts.
About the Cain/Abel parallel, if Abel was the one corrupted by Lucifer in the SPN universe, then Sam doesn’t fit the Abel character at all right now. He’s more in line with the angels, so I don’t know.
Just to keep things positive, lol, I liked the hug.
After reading comments on other sites, one of them really describes my problem with Dean right now: instead of seeking redemption, he’s embracing damnation. I understand that it’s easier to keep spinning downward instead of clawing your way up to the top, but I want Dean to face what’s he’s done and take steps to atone and earn back Sam’s trust.
After reading comments on other sites, one of them really describes my problem with Dean right now: instead of seeking redemption, he’s embracing damnation. I understand that it’s easier to keep spinning downward instead of clawing your way up to the top, but I want Dean to face what’s he’s done and take steps to atone and earn back Sam’s trust.
[quote name=”Cat”]Crowley was being his usual self..or was he? Maybe I’m reading too much into things, but there were moments where Crowley seemed oddly human. He did manipulate Dean, and his fear of Cain might have been overplayed, but it wasn’t entirely faked. In fact, from what we have seen of Cain, Crowley did have every reason to be afraid of him, yet his plan included exposing himself to Cain and Abaddon’s minions. The plan relied entirely on the fact that Dean would impress Cain enough to get the mark. For someone with self-preservation instincts as strong as Crowley’s, that shows quite some trust in Dean (and Dean actually did kill three demons alone this time – he really is awesome). There is also the final conversation between Crowley and Dean. Crowley tells Dean that his problem is that no one hates Dean more than he hates himself – not even Crowley. To me, that didn’t sound like a taunt, but uncharacteristically sincere. Is it just me, or was Crowley actually showing sympathy? Of course it’s Crowley, but considering how invested he was in saving Sam in “Road Trip”, correcting Sam when he asked if he had killed Kevin, I have to wonder. I liked how Castiel and Crowley both carefully suggested that they might need help, and both Winchesters were too stubborn to take the hint.[/quote]
I agree with you about the changes in Crowley-when I watched it again, I couldn’t get past the fact that when the mark was initially transferred, and Crowley saw Dean in pain, he tried to reach out – “Dean…” but he was cut off and his concern shooed away by Dean. First, it was rather uncharacteristic that Crowley called him by name, which I guess he has been doing more recently, but still; and second, to me, it was a very visceral human reaction to seeing someone you care about (on some level) in pain and doing something stupid. Yes, Crowley was setting him up, but that didn’t mean that his aspects of new found humanity weren’t going to be accidentally blurted out while he was scheming. It’s like Crowley is trying to maintain a facade as much as Dean is.
This episode was all over the board for me.
One the one hand: yay Sam and Cas finally have real bonding moments! I think its great following Cas calling Sam an “abomination,” taking down the wall, and the missed hug.
[quote]from njspnfan: Or, like with Cain and Collette, Abaddon possesses Sam (Sam is anti-possession tattoo-less now), and Dean has to kill Sam in order to kill Abaddon.[/quote]
NOOOOO! Not our Sammy! But it seems alarmingly fitting.
[quote]from Manstrad: Dean Cain… will he have a cape and fly? I love the Dean/Crowley interaction, hopefully will see more since Superman, sorry, since Dean Cain has a demonic twist. [/quote]
I KNOW! But remember “yeah Dean you’re Batman.” 😉
Crowley was awesome. (You gotta hand it to the people who do the casting on this show. Obviously we love J2 but it takes a talented actor to make the audience love the villains not just love to hate them. M2 did/does that!) And even though he played Dean, well he IS Crowley, I’m thinking there’s more to it than just self-preservation. The whole “heart grew 3 sizes” line doesn’t seem so out of the question. Sam did impart him with some humanity. Crowley mentioned he and Dean could use Sam’s help. Mostly what got me was when Dean doubled over and Crowley called out to him. I rewound that half a dozen times to make sure I heard it and that it really was Mark’s voice. There was concern in the tone beyond mere assurance that the King of Hell’s prize fighter was not just knocked out, but that Crowley actually cared if Dean was okay. Then there’s the “your problem is no one else hates you more than you hate yourself–believe me I’ve tried.” That didn’t come off like last week’s dig. That felt genuine even if because Sam and Dean are the ones who’ve ever bested him. Maybe it wasn’t meant to be sympathetic, maybe Crowley is playing every card he can think of to get Dean to warm up to him just for using our elder Winchester to fight his battle for him, but Dean heard him loud and clear. And you know a character [i]really[/i] hates himself when the King of Hell hates him less.
Which brings me to my next point: once again Jensen makes me physically feel Dean’s pain–and makes it look so easy. Bonus: not only was the stubble hot, but that it reinforces the idea Dean is spiraling so fast he hasn’t bothered to do routine stuff like shave.
This spiral, more than [i]all[/i] the others, seems more frightening. Dean has said he’s tired for many seasons now, but this time it looks like he really threw in the towel. What will the mark mean? I doubt it’s to anywhere I’m going to like. One the Head on a Pin gave me enough chills.
This episode was all over the board for me.
One the one hand: yay Sam and Cas finally have real bonding moments! I think its great following Cas calling Sam an “abomination,” taking down the wall, and the missed hug.
[quote]from njspnfan: Or, like with Cain and Collette, Abaddon possesses Sam (Sam is anti-possession tattoo-less now), and Dean has to kill Sam in order to kill Abaddon.[/quote]
NOOOOO! Not our Sammy! But it seems alarmingly fitting.
[quote]from Manstrad: Dean Cain… will he have a cape and fly? I love the Dean/Crowley interaction, hopefully will see more since Superman, sorry, since Dean Cain has a demonic twist. [/quote]
I KNOW! But remember “yeah Dean you’re Batman.” 😉
Crowley was awesome. (You gotta hand it to the people who do the casting on this show. Obviously we love J2 but it takes a talented actor to make the audience love the villains not just love to hate them. M2 did/does that!) And even though he played Dean, well he IS Crowley, I’m thinking there’s more to it than just self-preservation. The whole “heart grew 3 sizes” line doesn’t seem so out of the question. Sam did impart him with some humanity. Crowley mentioned he and Dean could use Sam’s help. Mostly what got me was when Dean doubled over and Crowley called out to him. I rewound that half a dozen times to make sure I heard it and that it really was Mark’s voice. There was concern in the tone beyond mere assurance that the King of Hell’s prize fighter was not just knocked out, but that Crowley actually cared if Dean was okay. Then there’s the “your problem is no one else hates you more than you hate yourself–believe me I’ve tried.” That didn’t come off like last week’s dig. That felt genuine even if because Sam and Dean are the ones who’ve ever bested him. Maybe it wasn’t meant to be sympathetic, maybe Crowley is playing every card he can think of to get Dean to warm up to him just for using our elder Winchester to fight his battle for him, but Dean heard him loud and clear. And you know a character [i]really[/i] hates himself when the King of Hell hates him less.
Which brings me to my next point: once again Jensen makes me physically feel Dean’s pain–and makes it look so easy. Bonus: not only was the stubble hot, but that it reinforces the idea Dean is spiraling so fast he hasn’t bothered to do routine stuff like shave.
This spiral, more than [i]all[/i] the others, seems more frightening. Dean has said he’s tired for many seasons now, but this time it looks like he really threw in the towel. What will the mark mean? I doubt it’s to anywhere I’m going to like. One the Head on a Pin gave me enough chills.
I actually had to watch this one twice before I could even decide how I felt about it. After the first time I wasn’t even sure what was going on the ep was so jammed packed with stuff. After a second viewing I am more on board, but not totally.
Things I liked: Cas and Sam. For the most part these scenes were nicely done and a long time coming. It seems like we’ve waited forever for these two to connect, so I really liked that aspect of the episode.
In general I liked where things are going with Dean and the Lucifer mark; this could be very interesting as Dean potentially begins to spiral down a very dark road. I like the allusions to season 4, and really hope that at some point Sam and Dean can have a convo about this. And even though I’ve seen a few criticisms about the story being a re-tread, as long as what came before is acknowledged and discussed it won’t seem like a re-tread but a progression. The brothers have to use what they’ve learned about what happened in season 4 to keep things fresh and current, so hopefully we’ll see S&D connect over their similar experiences sometime soon. Loved Tim Odmudson; he’d make a great addition to the cast if TPTB could figure out a way to get him to stay on the show, possibly as a repeater like Crowley. And I really liked Tara as well, she was a badass; too bad she didn’t out live the episode.
I also thought the episode was pretty balanced for the most part and liked the two parallel stories. I don’t mind the brothers being separated for a bit (but I think that I am the only one!) and I certainly don’t mind the conflict between them ’cause I am an angst whore! 😀
Things I had some trouble with: Some of where they are going with Dean’s story doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me ATM. His drive to seek revenge against Gadreel has suddenly and a little clumsily become a quest to kill Abbadon? And now it seems that Sam and Cas are jonseing to kill Gadreel even though they both knew that Dean had taken on that quest. ??? And though I liked the Cas/Sam scenes very much, I was bothered by a few (admittedly picky) things. What exactly was the angel grace extraction scene for? All that pain they put Sam through and then it doesn’t even work? Why have the scene at all then? And even though Cas and Sam had some nice connection, I didn’t hear Sam do much talking, it was mostly Cas telling Sam that he understands how Sam feels, which is a neat trick really considering that WE haven’t heard how Sam feels from SAM (again) and neither has Cas. And the hug scene… yeah, as Leah and Percysowner said, it was awkward, and some of the dialogue didn’t make any sense. I wonder if maybe a section of the dialogue was cut and the editing to cover over the missing bits was poorly done. It makes no sense that Cas would ask Sam for help looking for Gadreel when he had said not 2 minutes earlier that he wanted to find Gadreel. Not sure what happened there but it was weird.
A few things I wondered about: A few episodes ago Abbadon was talking to Crowley on the phone from in front of one of John’s storage containers. Has the lovely Abbadon already visited the storage site where the info about the ‘first blade’ was kept? I wonder if that was a coincidence or if she’s already several steps ahead?
Another bit that intrigued me was during the grace extraction scene when Sam says “my life isn’t worth any more than yours or Dean’s…. or Kevin’s. Please help me do one right thing.” This line really stuck out to me and seemed to speak to Sam’s current state of mind and how he was feeling about things especially at the end of season 8 and his view that he’s done nothing but let Dean down all his life. I wonder if part of where they are going with Dean will provide Sam with an opportunity to save Dean in a way that he’s never been able to before. That would make me very happy; I hope that it plays out this way rather than in the Cain vs. Abel way that they seem to be setting up at the moment. I don’t really want a return of the “you’ll have to save Sam or kill him” trope from season 2.
I actually had to watch this one twice before I could even decide how I felt about it. After the first time I wasn’t even sure what was going on the ep was so jammed packed with stuff. After a second viewing I am more on board, but not totally.
Things I liked: Cas and Sam. For the most part these scenes were nicely done and a long time coming. It seems like we’ve waited forever for these two to connect, so I really liked that aspect of the episode.
In general I liked where things are going with Dean and the Lucifer mark; this could be very interesting as Dean potentially begins to spiral down a very dark road. I like the allusions to season 4, and really hope that at some point Sam and Dean can have a convo about this. And even though I’ve seen a few criticisms about the story being a re-tread, as long as what came before is acknowledged and discussed it won’t seem like a re-tread but a progression. The brothers have to use what they’ve learned about what happened in season 4 to keep things fresh and current, so hopefully we’ll see S&D connect over their similar experiences sometime soon. Loved Tim Odmudson; he’d make a great addition to the cast if TPTB could figure out a way to get him to stay on the show, possibly as a repeater like Crowley. And I really liked Tara as well, she was a badass; too bad she didn’t out live the episode.
I also thought the episode was pretty balanced for the most part and liked the two parallel stories. I don’t mind the brothers being separated for a bit (but I think that I am the only one!) and I certainly don’t mind the conflict between them ’cause I am an angst whore! 😀
Things I had some trouble with: Some of where they are going with Dean’s story doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me ATM. His drive to seek revenge against Gadreel has suddenly and a little clumsily become a quest to kill Abbadon? And now it seems that Sam and Cas are jonseing to kill Gadreel even though they both knew that Dean had taken on that quest. ??? And though I liked the Cas/Sam scenes very much, I was bothered by a few (admittedly picky) things. What exactly was the angel grace extraction scene for? All that pain they put Sam through and then it doesn’t even work? Why have the scene at all then? And even though Cas and Sam had some nice connection, I didn’t hear Sam do much talking, it was mostly Cas telling Sam that he understands how Sam feels, which is a neat trick really considering that WE haven’t heard how Sam feels from SAM (again) and neither has Cas. And the hug scene… yeah, as Leah and Percysowner said, it was awkward, and some of the dialogue didn’t make any sense. I wonder if maybe a section of the dialogue was cut and the editing to cover over the missing bits was poorly done. It makes no sense that Cas would ask Sam for help looking for Gadreel when he had said not 2 minutes earlier that he wanted to find Gadreel. Not sure what happened there but it was weird.
A few things I wondered about: A few episodes ago Abbadon was talking to Crowley on the phone from in front of one of John’s storage containers. Has the lovely Abbadon already visited the storage site where the info about the ‘first blade’ was kept? I wonder if that was a coincidence or if she’s already several steps ahead?
Another bit that intrigued me was during the grace extraction scene when Sam says “my life isn’t worth any more than yours or Dean’s…. or Kevin’s. Please help me do one right thing.” This line really stuck out to me and seemed to speak to Sam’s current state of mind and how he was feeling about things especially at the end of season 8 and his view that he’s done nothing but let Dean down all his life. I wonder if part of where they are going with Dean will provide Sam with an opportunity to save Dean in a way that he’s never been able to before. That would make me very happy; I hope that it plays out this way rather than in the Cain vs. Abel way that they seem to be setting up at the moment. I don’t really want a return of the “you’ll have to save Sam or kill him” trope from season 2.
I’m also less than thrilled that now that Dean=Cain and Sam=Abel suddenly Abel is being portrayed as the “bad guy” with Cain being the self-sacrificial brother willing to give up everything for him. It does not bode well for a sympathetic view of Sam, yet again. This is also bothersome because our view of Abel is totally and completely through Cain’s eyes, the guy who murdered him. It feels too much like the way we hear about Sam’s motives from well just about anyone except Sam.
me too percyowner. i felt bummed that history is being re-written so that dean’s character is the hero (again) and sam is the screw up (again). i see both brothers as heroes and such complex, interesting and amazing charters — but i don’t know how all of this is going to unfold, so maybe i am being premature in my “hero vs. screw up” judgment. i’m just so desperate for more sam pov, and was so hopeful about this after the last handful of season 8 episodes, but i’m feeling disheartened again. sigh. just to be clear, jensen & dean’s character is fantastic. i just want to see a bit more parity between the brother’s pov. all that said, it was an interesting episode and i’m very curious to see how the mark of cain plays out — esp in regards to the possibility that it now makes dean immortal. guess he’ll HAVE to learn the life lesson of “letting go” if that is the case! (since very one he grows attached to will die while he goes on living …)
I’m also less than thrilled that now that Dean=Cain and Sam=Abel suddenly Abel is being portrayed as the “bad guy” with Cain being the self-sacrificial brother willing to give up everything for him. It does not bode well for a sympathetic view of Sam, yet again. This is also bothersome because our view of Abel is totally and completely through Cain’s eyes, the guy who murdered him. It feels too much like the way we hear about Sam’s motives from well just about anyone except Sam.
me too percyowner. i felt bummed that history is being re-written so that dean’s character is the hero (again) and sam is the screw up (again). i see both brothers as heroes and such complex, interesting and amazing charters — but i don’t know how all of this is going to unfold, so maybe i am being premature in my “hero vs. screw up” judgment. i’m just so desperate for more sam pov, and was so hopeful about this after the last handful of season 8 episodes, but i’m feeling disheartened again. sigh. just to be clear, jensen & dean’s character is fantastic. i just want to see a bit more parity between the brother’s pov. all that said, it was an interesting episode and i’m very curious to see how the mark of cain plays out — esp in regards to the possibility that it now makes dean immortal. guess he’ll HAVE to learn the life lesson of “letting go” if that is the case! (since very one he grows attached to will die while he goes on living …)
I almost hate to point this out because I know how much of a ruckus it starts when there are cannon issues but I’ve gotta wonder why they needed to get Gadreel’s grace in the first place to track him. In Season 5 Cas did a tracking spell to find Anna when she went after John and Mary Winchester and in Season 6 to find Balthazar and the only thing he needed (aside from myrrh) was the name of the angel who’d sold the Jesus stick to the kid. I loved the scenes with Sam and Cas and I love Robbie Thompson so I’m willing to live with maybe in this post Fallen Angels world maybe it doesn’t work like it used to and there needed to be a reason for Cas to say what he did to Sam but it does kind of bug me.
I almost hate to point this out because I know how much of a ruckus it starts when there are cannon issues but I’ve gotta wonder why they needed to get Gadreel’s grace in the first place to track him. In Season 5 Cas did a tracking spell to find Anna when she went after John and Mary Winchester and in Season 6 to find Balthazar and the only thing he needed (aside from myrrh) was the name of the angel who’d sold the Jesus stick to the kid. I loved the scenes with Sam and Cas and I love Robbie Thompson so I’m willing to live with maybe in this post Fallen Angels world maybe it doesn’t work like it used to and there needed to be a reason for Cas to say what he did to Sam but it does kind of bug me.
[quote]In Season 5 Cas did a tracking spell to find Anna when she went after John and Mary Winchester and in Season 6 to find Balthazar and the only thing he needed (aside from myrrh) was the name of the angel who’d sold the Jesus stick to the kid. [/quote]
I admit I can’t explain Anna away, but I always thought that Balthazar was working with Castiel from the get go, so he didn’t need to “find” Balthazar, just make up a “ritual” to convince the Winchesters that he didn’t know who had the weapons of heaven and that he was working oh, so hard to get them away from bad old Balthazar.
If I wave my hands I could guess that Gadreel being imprisoned since the beginning of time made him harder to find than Anna, but really they wanted to show Sam willing to die to find Gadreel and Cas being willing to not find Gadreel if finding him would cost Sam his life.
[quote]In Season 5 Cas did a tracking spell to find Anna when she went after John and Mary Winchester and in Season 6 to find Balthazar and the only thing he needed (aside from myrrh) was the name of the angel who’d sold the Jesus stick to the kid. [/quote]
I admit I can’t explain Anna away, but I always thought that Balthazar was working with Castiel from the get go, so he didn’t need to “find” Balthazar, just make up a “ritual” to convince the Winchesters that he didn’t know who had the weapons of heaven and that he was working oh, so hard to get them away from bad old Balthazar.
If I wave my hands I could guess that Gadreel being imprisoned since the beginning of time made him harder to find than Anna, but really they wanted to show Sam willing to die to find Gadreel and Cas being willing to not find Gadreel if finding him would cost Sam his life.
The more I think about it, I don’t think that we’ll get a “save or kill Sam” scenario with Dean. Sam is not being tempted by evil or anything. There’s no reason for Dean to be worried this time. If anyone is in danger here it’s Dean, and maybe Sam will have to kill or save him? Sam needs a win so badly at this point, I hope he’s the one to save Dean. Sera Gamble left the perfect set-up for Sam to do it, which Carver completely squandered in season 8. So now he’s getting a second chance.
I also re-watched the Sam/Cas scenes and liked them even less. It was a total waste of time and a lost opportunity for character exploration at a crucial time for Sam. So much for that. I actually enjoy it when the brothers are paired up with different partners, but I like the different stories to be given equal weight, like “Be free to be you and me”, and it definitely wasn’t the case last night. I’m so disappointed.
The more I think about it, I don’t think that we’ll get a “save or kill Sam” scenario with Dean. Sam is not being tempted by evil or anything. There’s no reason for Dean to be worried this time. If anyone is in danger here it’s Dean, and maybe Sam will have to kill or save him? Sam needs a win so badly at this point, I hope he’s the one to save Dean. Sera Gamble left the perfect set-up for Sam to do it, which Carver completely squandered in season 8. So now he’s getting a second chance.
I also re-watched the Sam/Cas scenes and liked them even less. It was a total waste of time and a lost opportunity for character exploration at a crucial time for Sam. So much for that. I actually enjoy it when the brothers are paired up with different partners, but I like the different stories to be given equal weight, like “Be free to be you and me”, and it definitely wasn’t the case last night. I’m so disappointed.
[quote name=”percysowner”][quote]In Season 5 Cas did a tracking spell to find Anna when she went after John and Mary Winchester and in Season 6 to find Balthazar and the only thing he needed (aside from myrrh) was the name of the angel who’d sold the Jesus stick to the kid. [/quote]
I admit I can’t explain Anna away, but I always thought that Balthazar was working with Castiel from the get go, so he didn’t need to “find” Balthazar, just make up a “ritual” to convince the Winchesters that he didn’t know who had the weapons of heaven and that he was working oh, so hard to get them away from bad old Balthazar.
If I wave my hands I could guess that Gadreel being imprisoned since the beginning of time made him harder to find than Anna, but really they wanted to show Sam willing to die to find Gadreel and Cas being willing to not find Gadreel if finding him would cost Sam his life.[/quote]
[quote name=”percysowner”][quote]In Season 5 Cas did a tracking spell to find Anna when she went after John and Mary Winchester and in Season 6 to find Balthazar and the only thing he needed (aside from myrrh) was the name of the angel who’d sold the Jesus stick to the kid. [/quote]
I admit I can’t explain Anna away, but I always thought that Balthazar was working with Castiel from the get go, so he didn’t need to “find” Balthazar, just make up a “ritual” to convince the Winchesters that he didn’t know who had the weapons of heaven and that he was working oh, so hard to get them away from bad old Balthazar.
If I wave my hands I could guess that Gadreel being imprisoned since the beginning of time made him harder to find than Anna, but really they wanted to show Sam willing to die to find Gadreel and Cas being willing to not find Gadreel if finding him would cost Sam his life.[/quote]
With Balthazar I was actually referring to the first time he’s on the show when TFW goes to Balthazar’s mansion after Cas does the tracking spell. Cas went in alone to talk to him and since there was no one else, except one of Raphael’s nameless henchmen in the room there was no reason for a “show” on Cas’s part that he didn’t know Balthazar was alive so he really didn’t. Later, yes, they were working together but he even left Balthazar mostly in the dark as to what he was doing, at least the bit about Purgatory and Crowley. It just seems like a simple tracking spell and now that Gadreel isn’t imprisoned it’s just odd that they didn’t use it.
I agree, it was more about showing that Cas wasn’t willing to go further with the extraction and risk losing Sam, and I’m all for that, but it just seems off.
[quote][quote]In Season 5 Cas did a tracking spell to find Anna when she went after John and Mary Winchester and in Season 6 to find Balthazar and the only thing he needed (aside from myrrh) was the name of the angel who’d sold the Jesus stick to the kid. [/quote]
I admit I can’t explain Anna away, but I always thought that Balthazar was working with Castiel from the get go, so he didn’t need to “find” Balthazar, just make up a “ritual” to convince the Winchesters that he didn’t know who had the weapons of heaven and that he was working oh, so hard to get them away from bad old Balthazar.
If I wave my hands I could guess that Gadreel being imprisoned since the beginning of time made him harder to find than Anna, but really they wanted to show Sam willing to die to find Gadreel and Cas being willing to not find Gadreel if finding him would cost Sam his life.[/quote]
[quote][quote]In Season 5 Cas did a tracking spell to find Anna when she went after John and Mary Winchester and in Season 6 to find Balthazar and the only thing he needed (aside from myrrh) was the name of the angel who’d sold the Jesus stick to the kid. [/quote]
I admit I can’t explain Anna away, but I always thought that Balthazar was working with Castiel from the get go, so he didn’t need to “find” Balthazar, just make up a “ritual” to convince the Winchesters that he didn’t know who had the weapons of heaven and that he was working oh, so hard to get them away from bad old Balthazar.
If I wave my hands I could guess that Gadreel being imprisoned since the beginning of time made him harder to find than Anna, but really they wanted to show Sam willing to die to find Gadreel and Cas being willing to not find Gadreel if finding him would cost Sam his life.[/quote]
With Balthazar I was actually referring to the first time he’s on the show when TFW goes to Balthazar’s mansion after Cas does the tracking spell. Cas went in alone to talk to him and since there was no one else, except one of Raphael’s nameless henchmen in the room there was no reason for a “show” on Cas’s part that he didn’t know Balthazar was alive so he really didn’t. Later, yes, they were working together but he even left Balthazar mostly in the dark as to what he was doing, at least the bit about Purgatory and Crowley. It just seems like a simple tracking spell and now that Gadreel isn’t imprisoned it’s just odd that they didn’t use it.
I agree, it was more about showing that Cas wasn’t willing to go further with the extraction and risk losing Sam, and I’m all for that, but it just seems off.
[quote name=”JuliaG”]The more I think about it, I don’t think that we’ll get a “save or kill Sam” scenario with Dean. Sam is not being tempted by evil or anything. There’s no reason for Dean to be worried this time. If anyone is in danger here it’s Dean, and maybe Sam will have to kill or save him? Sam needs a win so badly at this point, I hope he’s the one to save Dean. Sera Gamble left the perfect set-up for Sam to do it, which Carver completely squandered in season 8. So now he’s getting a second chance.
I also re-watched the Sam/Cas scenes and liked them even less. It was a total waste of time and a lost opportunity for character exploration at a crucial time for Sam. So much for that. I actually enjoy it when the brothers are paired up with different partners, but I like the different stories to be given equal weight, like “Be free to be you and me”, and it definitely wasn’t the case last night. I’m so disappointed.[/quote]
I have not said very much about these recent episodes . But the episode did very little for Sam after learning the truth I would like to of thought the writers realized Sam needed a episode esp as we have not a a Sam-centric episode yet and not give him 10 mins with Castiel , with Cas doing the talking and a extraction scene that went nowhere.
[quote]The more I think about it, I don’t think that we’ll get a “save or kill Sam” scenario with Dean. Sam is not being tempted by evil or anything. There’s no reason for Dean to be worried this time. If anyone is in danger here it’s Dean, and maybe Sam will have to kill or save him? Sam needs a win so badly at this point, I hope he’s the one to save Dean. Sera Gamble left the perfect set-up for Sam to do it, which Carver completely squandered in season 8. So now he’s getting a second chance.
I also re-watched the Sam/Cas scenes and liked them even less. It was a total waste of time and a lost opportunity for character exploration at a crucial time for Sam. So much for that. I actually enjoy it when the brothers are paired up with different partners, but I like the different stories to be given equal weight, like “Be free to be you and me”, and it definitely wasn’t the case last night. I’m so disappointed.[/quote]
I have not said very much about these recent episodes . But the episode did very little for Sam after learning the truth I would like to of thought the writers realized Sam needed a episode esp as we have not a a Sam-centric episode yet and not give him 10 mins with Castiel , with Cas doing the talking and a extraction scene that went nowhere.
Why do I feel that Cas is lying when he said the spell fails to locate Gadreel? I think the spell works Cas just didn’t want to risk sending Sam to a chase with his suicidal thoughts.
Also there’s one scene or few dialogue that the show missed. How about like this :
Cas detects a leftover grace inside Sam and Sam insists the grace to be extracted because after Demon blood he doesn’t want anymore strange substance inside him. Cas refuses to extract it because it will jeopardize Sam’s life. Then enter the dialogue about Sam’s worthiness and unworthiness that still doesn’t make Cas want to help him.
So, Sam do research and reveals to Cas about the advantage of having Gadreel’s grace on hand, to track him down. Cas still refuses saying that he can track Gadreel using a spell he used to track Anna. but since they let Dean go to track Gadreel on his own he better use their down time to heal Sam.
Of course Sam is adamant because no matter what he have to get rid of the grace and threatens Cas if the angel won’t do it he will extract the grace by himself. Cas worries that Sam may end up kill himself in the process, offers to help him.
I think if this is put on dialog the awkwardness and the off putting feel about that scene will be gone or I hope it will be gone. But I’m not the writer so….
Why do I feel that Cas is lying when he said the spell fails to locate Gadreel? I think the spell works Cas just didn’t want to risk sending Sam to a chase with his suicidal thoughts.
Also there’s one scene or few dialogue that the show missed. How about like this :
Cas detects a leftover grace inside Sam and Sam insists the grace to be extracted because after Demon blood he doesn’t want anymore strange substance inside him. Cas refuses to extract it because it will jeopardize Sam’s life. Then enter the dialogue about Sam’s worthiness and unworthiness that still doesn’t make Cas want to help him.
So, Sam do research and reveals to Cas about the advantage of having Gadreel’s grace on hand, to track him down. Cas still refuses saying that he can track Gadreel using a spell he used to track Anna. but since they let Dean go to track Gadreel on his own he better use their down time to heal Sam.
Of course Sam is adamant because no matter what he have to get rid of the grace and threatens Cas if the angel won’t do it he will extract the grace by himself. Cas worries that Sam may end up kill himself in the process, offers to help him.
I think if this is put on dialog the awkwardness and the off putting feel about that scene will be gone or I hope it will be gone. But I’m not the writer so….
What does the fact that CAIN SILENCED Crowley, mean…….
[Silenced for Chucks sake] 😮 Who or what kind of power can do that……..
What does the fact that CAIN SILENCED Crowley, mean…….
[Silenced for Chucks sake] 😮 Who or what kind of power can do that……..
Excellent episode. I loved everything about it. The Sam and Castiel scenes were wonderful. It’s been a long wait to see those two finally having some nice bonding moments. I loved how caring Castiel was towards Sam, how worried he was about him. The ‘nothing is worth losing you’ line made me go all gooey inside. *Sigh*
As for Sam…oh Sam. 😥 His “Please help me do one right thing” ripped my heart to shreds. All his guilt over constantly letting Dean down, now Kevin…I really hope that Sam will get to save Dean at the end of wherever Dean’s story is heading this season.
Angry, driven, badass Dean is my very favourite flavour of Dean so I loved him throughout this episode. I’ve been a devoted Sam girl since the first few minutes of The Pilot but Angry!Badass!Dean sure gets me all tingly. Yum.
I’ve only ever seen Timothy Omundsen in an episode of Criminal Minds and he was fabulous in that even if he did make my beloved Spencer cry. He was fabulous here too. I hope he comes back at some point.
And then there’s Crowley. Oh Crowley, how I do love thee. Crowley/MS were just awesome throughout.
I can’t wait to see where all this is heading.
Excellent episode. I loved everything about it. The Sam and Castiel scenes were wonderful. It’s been a long wait to see those two finally having some nice bonding moments. I loved how caring Castiel was towards Sam, how worried he was about him. The ‘nothing is worth losing you’ line made me go all gooey inside. *Sigh*
As for Sam…oh Sam. 😥 His “Please help me do one right thing” ripped my heart to shreds. All his guilt over constantly letting Dean down, now Kevin…I really hope that Sam will get to save Dean at the end of wherever Dean’s story is heading this season.
Angry, driven, badass Dean is my very favourite flavour of Dean so I loved him throughout this episode. I’ve been a devoted Sam girl since the first few minutes of The Pilot but Angry!Badass!Dean sure gets me all tingly. Yum.
I’ve only ever seen Timothy Omundsen in an episode of Criminal Minds and he was fabulous in that even if he did make my beloved Spencer cry. He was fabulous here too. I hope he comes back at some point.
And then there’s Crowley. Oh Crowley, how I do love thee. Crowley/MS were just awesome throughout.
I can’t wait to see where all this is heading.
Well in the Bible the mark was giving to Cain to be a warning to everybody who wanted to kill him will come upon them some vengeance of God, I hope that’s not the path the writers are gonna take and some kind of huge curse is gonna come upon Dean, because he made the promise to Cain that he will kill him, but I guess this is some information that Cass would know right?
Well in the Bible the mark was giving to Cain to be a warning to everybody who wanted to kill him will come upon them some vengeance of God, I hope that’s not the path the writers are gonna take and some kind of huge curse is gonna come upon Dean, because he made the promise to Cain that he will kill him, but I guess this is some information that Cass would know right?
I assume since Cain gave Dean the mark that Cain can now be killed? Although I can’t see TPTB making Dean immortal like Cain is and Cain still had his red light killing powers even after he transferred the mark so…..who knows.
My guess is that the mark of Cain will have no affect on Dean unless he uses the first blade to kill someone. That will be the new dilemma.
I assume since Cain gave Dean the mark that Cain can now be killed? Although I can’t see TPTB making Dean immortal like Cain is and Cain still had his red light killing powers even after he transferred the mark so…..who knows.
My guess is that the mark of Cain will have no affect on Dean unless he uses the first blade to kill someone. That will be the new dilemma.
[quote]I assume since Cain gave Dean the mark that Cain can now be killed? Although I can’t see TPTB making Dean immortal like Cain is and Cain still had his red light killing powers even after he transferred the mark so…..who knows.[/quote]
Since Cain told Dean that one of his conditions for giving Dean the Mark and the jawbone was that Dean had to come back when he called and kill him, I’d say he can definitely be killed now. If I interpret the mythology Cain was a Knight of Hell. The only thing that could kill a Knight of Hell is the First Blade. The only way The First Blade worked was if it was wielded by someone who had the Mark of Cain. So Cain could always die, theoretically, there was nothing that could kill him because only he could use the blade.
The real issue may be that God gave Cain the Mark so he could be identified. The prohibition against killing Cain may still be in place. If it is, killing Cain may result in what the Bible says
[quote]But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.”[/quote]
so the Mark may corrupt Cain or killing Cain may give Dean all kinds of grief.
[quote]I assume since Cain gave Dean the mark that Cain can now be killed? Although I can’t see TPTB making Dean immortal like Cain is and Cain still had his red light killing powers even after he transferred the mark so…..who knows.[/quote]
Since Cain told Dean that one of his conditions for giving Dean the Mark and the jawbone was that Dean had to come back when he called and kill him, I’d say he can definitely be killed now. If I interpret the mythology Cain was a Knight of Hell. The only thing that could kill a Knight of Hell is the First Blade. The only way The First Blade worked was if it was wielded by someone who had the Mark of Cain. So Cain could always die, theoretically, there was nothing that could kill him because only he could use the blade.
The real issue may be that God gave Cain the Mark so he could be identified. The prohibition against killing Cain may still be in place. If it is, killing Cain may result in what the Bible says
[quote]But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.”[/quote]
so the Mark may corrupt Cain or killing Cain may give Dean all kinds of grief.
My one complaint about the whole MoC storyline is how we got there in the first place. Did anybody else feel that way? It just seemed too quick a shift (for me anyway) taking Dean in one minute from his gung-ho Gadreel revenge focus, right into the let’s kill Abbadon thing without showing us how he was open to making that switch. Currently the Gadreel and Abbadon issues aren’t connected, and Gadreel/Metatron are the much, much bigger threat at the moment. Abbadon has shown almost no interest in the Winchesters or Kevin or any hunter at all really. As a matter of fact, she seemed kind of grateful to them for keeping Crowley under wraps for her. I know that the episode has Dean being tricked into getting the MoC by Crowley, but geez… really, how dumb is that? After all this time shouldn’t he know better? What happened to his “you don’t work with demons ever” mantra? And because Abbadon isn’t Gadreel then why did he even care? Why didn’t he wish Crowley luck in his battle with her and continue his proposed hunt? Now, I know Deam isn’t dumb at all, so I am going to blame the very clunky and awkward shift in his focus to poor set up in the plot and bad writing. I don’t buy Dean getting fooled by Crowley. It makes no sense that Dean could be swayed off his revenge mission so easily and so quickly. Perhaps if they had indicated in any way that he’d become frustrated with his search… or better yet, If Crowley had somehow managed to link getting the MoC to also being able to kill Gadreel, then I could have bought it and could see Dean buying it. Two more lines of dialog about how the MoC and the Jaw Bone can kill anything (shades of the Colt) probably would have swayed Dean better than any other argument. Then I could have bought him shifting his focus or being lead astray so easily. Aside from that pretty minor quibble, The actual MoC thing is pretty cool as a storyline, and I can’t wait to see where it goes. Will Dean begin to act like a demon? Will he become more ruthless? Will he begin to show signs of powers or become more intuitive about where demons are? Will he go off the rails and need saving? Will he end up saving everyone else? What will the final showdown between he and Abbadon entail? So many interesting questions and possibilities for this storyline all of which could be awesome.
My one complaint about the whole MoC storyline is how we got there in the first place. Did anybody else feel that way? It just seemed too quick a shift (for me anyway) taking Dean in one minute from his gung-ho Gadreel revenge focus, right into the let’s kill Abbadon thing without showing us how he was open to making that switch. Currently the Gadreel and Abbadon issues aren’t connected, and Gadreel/Metatron are the much, much bigger threat at the moment. Abbadon has shown almost no interest in the Winchesters or Kevin or any hunter at all really. As a matter of fact, she seemed kind of grateful to them for keeping Crowley under wraps for her. I know that the episode has Dean being tricked into getting the MoC by Crowley, but geez… really, how dumb is that? After all this time shouldn’t he know better? What happened to his “you don’t work with demons ever” mantra? And because Abbadon isn’t Gadreel then why did he even care? Why didn’t he wish Crowley luck in his battle with her and continue his proposed hunt? Now, I know Deam isn’t dumb at all, so I am going to blame the very clunky and awkward shift in his focus to poor set up in the plot and bad writing. I don’t buy Dean getting fooled by Crowley. It makes no sense that Dean could be swayed off his revenge mission so easily and so quickly. Perhaps if they had indicated in any way that he’d become frustrated with his search… or better yet, If Crowley had somehow managed to link getting the MoC to also being able to kill Gadreel, then I could have bought it and could see Dean buying it. Two more lines of dialog about how the MoC and the Jaw Bone can kill anything (shades of the Colt) probably would have swayed Dean better than any other argument. Then I could have bought him shifting his focus or being lead astray so easily. Aside from that pretty minor quibble, The actual MoC thing is pretty cool as a storyline, and I can’t wait to see where it goes. Will Dean begin to act like a demon? Will he become more ruthless? Will he begin to show signs of powers or become more intuitive about where demons are? Will he go off the rails and need saving? Will he end up saving everyone else? What will the final showdown between he and Abbadon entail? So many interesting questions and possibilities for this storyline all of which could be awesome.
In the bible God gave cain the mark and cursed him to walk the world alone. If anyone kills cain they would be cursed 7 fold. I wonder if when cain calls dean to kill him, he will be cursed 7 fold
In the bible God gave cain the mark and cursed him to walk the world alone. If anyone kills cain they would be cursed 7 fold. I wonder if when cain calls dean to kill him, he will be cursed 7 fold
I believe that God gave Cain the mark, as you said, to keep other people from killing him. God also cursed him to never be able to produce from the land again because his brother’s blood was soaked into the soil. But it is also believed that Cain had a wife and two children so he was not cursed to walk alone.
I believe that God gave Cain the mark, as you said, to keep other people from killing him. God also cursed him to never be able to produce from the land again because his brother’s blood was soaked into the soil. But it is also believed that Cain had a wife and two children so he was not cursed to walk alone.
Thanks I didn’t know about his wife and kids
Thanks I didn’t know about his wife and kids
Im wondering if dean will grt all of cain’s powers
Im wondering if dean will grt all of cain’s powers
IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED UP TO EPISODE “CAPTIVES” do not read, spoilers.
Recollection:
Castiel is now teaming up with angels. Sam is teaming up with Castiel.
The brother’s bond- Even though Ghost-Kevin asked them to straighten it out, their relationship is hanging by a thread and nothing significant regarding the Mark of Cain for a couple episodes.
I am getting whiplash.
Thoughts on Dean:
You know though, I was hoping this would happen. I am tired of Sam always being the self sacrificing, meat suit of some calamity. It is time for Dean to be saved. Off the top of my head I can remember Dean being changed into a vampire (sexy), stuck in hell, and being stuck in Pergatory. While Sam was the vessel of Lucifer, had his soul split in two, one part endless tortured in Hell until it was restored, he was highjacked by a psychotic angel, put through hell in the first few seasons, and then the trials. You would say it is even but Sam seems to always get the short end of the stick. Dean is left to pick up the pieces.
Would be interesting have the tables turn and Sam is dealt the choice of letting whatever can happen to his brother happen or save him and see if he is really all that different from his brother.
IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED UP TO EPISODE “CAPTIVES” do not read, spoilers.
Recollection:
Castiel is now teaming up with angels. Sam is teaming up with Castiel.
The brother’s bond- Even though Ghost-Kevin asked them to straighten it out, their relationship is hanging by a thread and nothing significant regarding the Mark of Cain for a couple episodes.
I am getting whiplash.
Thoughts on Dean:
You know though, I was hoping this would happen. I am tired of Sam always being the self sacrificing, meat suit of some calamity. It is time for Dean to be saved. Off the top of my head I can remember Dean being changed into a vampire (sexy), stuck in hell, and being stuck in Pergatory. While Sam was the vessel of Lucifer, had his soul split in two, one part endless tortured in Hell until it was restored, he was highjacked by a psychotic angel, put through hell in the first few seasons, and then the trials. You would say it is even but Sam seems to always get the short end of the stick. Dean is left to pick up the pieces.
Would be interesting have the tables turn and Sam is dealt the choice of letting whatever can happen to his brother happen or save him and see if he is really all that different from his brother.
Theory:
I believe the Mark of Cain will have dire consequences, but possible benefits. However, in these past episodes we have seen people attempt to kill Dean with no sevenfold retribution so how will the Mark of Cain fair in the world of Supernatural.
In the Bible it says that ‘A mark was put upon him to warn others that killing Cain would provoke the vengeance of God, that if someone did something to harm Cain, the damage would come back sevenfold.’ [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain] but we haven’t seen that occur with the last episode Captives.
Also, at this point, the word doesn’t seem to have hit Angel Radio or the Demon Bloodline and Sam didn’t seem phased by seeing it on Dean at all during the episode The Purge. I think Castiel needs to see The Mark for some enlightenment to occur here, or that may come from Crowly and who knows how much truth will be in that revelation.
With the above in mind, I think the brothers will stay split for another few episodes, barely working together on cases (filler episodes) until the showdown with Abaddon and Metatron. Which may or may not be the last episode. Honestly I think Abaddon is the latter of the concerns and should be dealt with first, though we shall have to see.
I am circling my thoughts right now, but I believe that Dean is in deep trouble, The Mark is the mark of a murderer, possibly leaving a mark on his soul, while Hell wasn’t a joyride for either of the brothers, Dean had an easier ride than Sam. Dean seems to always come out harder, and stronger, if not a bit broken inside while Sam just comes out more self sacrificing, weak and broken. Dean would make a good “reluctant bad guy”. It would be refreshing to see Dean go down a path that he can’t just muscle his way out of.
I don’t believe Dean took Cain’s place immediately but perhaps overtime, wearing the mark, perhaps it will darken his soul, like hell would, slowly turning a tortured soul into a demon. It could mean that Dean could no longer go into Heaven, however in the episode “Dark Side of the Moon” Joshua tells Sam and Dean that God “granted you salvation in heaven…” , does that still stand?
Speaking of angels, are Lucifer and Michael still fighting it out in Lucifer’s cage in the pit? Any chance of those two making a comeback while the angels are on Earth? Maybe we have more Dean and Sam vessels in our future? Perhaps the tables will be turned and Dean will become a vessel of Lucifer and Sam of Michael (Unless the mark makes Dean, unable to be a vessel.
And Metatron and Gadreel, where did they go. Still unknown. Theory? Not really, sorry, my thoughts are all about Dean. But I believe both stories will come to a head, closely to one another with Abaddon’s ending first and Metatron’s ending second.
Feelings:
I miss the kid with the smile on his face, the worried look he always wears is torture enough! We have watched Sam always seem to think so little of his family and Dean, to not realize that his brother loves him that much that he can’t be without him that he would go to any lengths to keep him alive. Yeah it can be considered selfish too but isn’t that part of being human? I would be honored. Is he that burdened that he would just die and leave Dean alone? Then again if Death himself came to reap me, it would be quite convincing.
Dean, well I like where this is heading, he needs some more weight on his shoulders regarding himself and not his brother, some internal/external battle.
Glad to see Castiel thinking for himself and not so manipulated by those around him. Looking forward to seeing him restore heaven and fix The Word of God, if that happens. We need some more profits!
Final note: Sam… for my sake, get a HAIRCUT!
Theory:
I believe the Mark of Cain will have dire consequences, but possible benefits. However, in these past episodes we have seen people attempt to kill Dean with no sevenfold retribution so how will the Mark of Cain fair in the world of Supernatural.
In the Bible it says that ‘A mark was put upon him to warn others that killing Cain would provoke the vengeance of God, that if someone did something to harm Cain, the damage would come back sevenfold.’ [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain] but we haven’t seen that occur with the last episode Captives.
Also, at this point, the word doesn’t seem to have hit Angel Radio or the Demon Bloodline and Sam didn’t seem phased by seeing it on Dean at all during the episode The Purge. I think Castiel needs to see The Mark for some enlightenment to occur here, or that may come from Crowly and who knows how much truth will be in that revelation.
With the above in mind, I think the brothers will stay split for another few episodes, barely working together on cases (filler episodes) until the showdown with Abaddon and Metatron. Which may or may not be the last episode. Honestly I think Abaddon is the latter of the concerns and should be dealt with first, though we shall have to see.
I am circling my thoughts right now, but I believe that Dean is in deep trouble, The Mark is the mark of a murderer, possibly leaving a mark on his soul, while Hell wasn’t a joyride for either of the brothers, Dean had an easier ride than Sam. Dean seems to always come out harder, and stronger, if not a bit broken inside while Sam just comes out more self sacrificing, weak and broken. Dean would make a good “reluctant bad guy”. It would be refreshing to see Dean go down a path that he can’t just muscle his way out of.
I don’t believe Dean took Cain’s place immediately but perhaps overtime, wearing the mark, perhaps it will darken his soul, like hell would, slowly turning a tortured soul into a demon. It could mean that Dean could no longer go into Heaven, however in the episode “Dark Side of the Moon” Joshua tells Sam and Dean that God “granted you salvation in heaven…” , does that still stand?
Speaking of angels, are Lucifer and Michael still fighting it out in Lucifer’s cage in the pit? Any chance of those two making a comeback while the angels are on Earth? Maybe we have more Dean and Sam vessels in our future? Perhaps the tables will be turned and Dean will become a vessel of Lucifer and Sam of Michael (Unless the mark makes Dean, unable to be a vessel.
And Metatron and Gadreel, where did they go. Still unknown. Theory? Not really, sorry, my thoughts are all about Dean. But I believe both stories will come to a head, closely to one another with Abaddon’s ending first and Metatron’s ending second.
Feelings:
I miss the kid with the smile on his face, the worried look he always wears is torture enough! We have watched Sam always seem to think so little of his family and Dean, to not realize that his brother loves him that much that he can’t be without him that he would go to any lengths to keep him alive. Yeah it can be considered selfish too but isn’t that part of being human? I would be honored. Is he that burdened that he would just die and leave Dean alone? Then again if Death himself came to reap me, it would be quite convincing.
Dean, well I like where this is heading, he needs some more weight on his shoulders regarding himself and not his brother, some internal/external battle.
Glad to see Castiel thinking for himself and not so manipulated by those around him. Looking forward to seeing him restore heaven and fix The Word of God, if that happens. We need some more profits!
Final note: Sam… for my sake, get a HAIRCUT!
@61
Would you really be honoured if someone killed for you, and said they’d keep on doing it?? Would you even [i]want[/i] someone to kill for you? Would you be honoured if someone tried to dictate what you do with your life, and took steps to ensure that you did.
And lets not forget, on more than one occasion, Dean wanted to die, and leave his brother alone. He did it as recently as the middle of last season. He did it in season 2.
It certainly would be good for Dean to go ‘bad guy’, maybe via possession or whatnot. Perhaps then we might see Sam’s powers make an appearance again, brought to the fore under the worry for his possessed brother. I wonder if Dean would be okay with Sam using his powers to save him (cos he wasn’t the last time……) Still, he might take that as a sign of how much his brother loves him, what he’s willing to do to save him.
@61
Would you really be honoured if someone killed for you, and said they’d keep on doing it?? Would you even [i]want[/i] someone to kill for you? Would you be honoured if someone tried to dictate what you do with your life, and took steps to ensure that you did.
And lets not forget, on more than one occasion, Dean wanted to die, and leave his brother alone. He did it as recently as the middle of last season. He did it in season 2.
It certainly would be good for Dean to go ‘bad guy’, maybe via possession or whatnot. Perhaps then we might see Sam’s powers make an appearance again, brought to the fore under the worry for his possessed brother. I wonder if Dean would be okay with Sam using his powers to save him (cos he wasn’t the last time……) Still, he might take that as a sign of how much his brother loves him, what he’s willing to do to save him.
[quote name=”Tim the Enchanter”]
And lets not forget, on more than one occasion, Dean wanted to die, and leave his brother alone. He did it as recently as the middle of last season. He did it in season 2.
[/quote]
You know that is an interesting point. Dean is quite ready to leave Sam alone, but the other way around doesn’t work for him.
Last season Sam was willing to do whatever to keep Dean [i]well[/i] (which is a stage-up from alive) he took on the trials, initially by accident but then kept them because he could see that Dean would make it a suicide trip. He did that in Season 3 too when Dean was ‘kamikaze’, he was willing to be a zombie with Dean so that the endless awfulness of that life wouldn’t have had to be borne alone by Dean, and I believe he agreed to live both in the church and in the hospital purely for Dean’s mental health. For Sam he will do anything (for Dean) while life is viable. He is willing to work at LIFE that it should be worth living if you are alive.
For Dean, well Death told him:
“You throw away your life because you’ve come to assume that it will bounce right back into your lap. “
and he assumes that for Sam too. He doesn’t really need to change, or work on his relationship with his little brother because in the end he can ALWAYS save Sam from anything and he has gotten to the stage where he believes that is all that is required, all that matters. Dean is about big gestures because he doesn’t see the small ones any more. (when he threw away the amulet that was a big gesture rejection of Sam who had originally made the small gesture offering of the only thing he had to give as a Christmas present while he was a kid, both brothers had come to see it as a connection between them as the years rolled by because Dean wore it the whole time they were estranged).
Yes at the moment Sam is in a better emotional place than Dean, (even though he may be suicidal still). Dean really needs to clearly understand what he is doing and stop thinking supernaturally and start thinking like a human.
I may be wrong but I feel that the black humor in Dean’s last real conversation with Sam before Sam was to go finish the trials where he pointed out all his ‘faults’ again was because it had finally gotten to the stage where Dean was not afraid of losing Sam, because losing Sam is NEVER going to happen. So for Dean he could have a ‘bantering big brother’ conversation and for Sam he heard the death knell of any remaining empathy/feeling/respect his brother had for him … but also maybe he heard that his brother was going to be able to let him go if the trials killed him (and what is sad is that that may have been a hopeful thought for him). Perception is a two way street.
I think that Sam didn’t know for sure that the trials were going to kill him until he started the last one with Crowley or he might have tried to say goodbye to Dean – imagine for Dean if that had been his last words to his brother?
I would love to think that what the show is trying to do is say ACTUALLY you need to work at life (and relationships) while you are alive, not try to fix it unnaturally when both are gone.
It is very ironic that at the moment Dean is probably beginning to believe it is possible to ‘lose’ Sam .. while Sam is alive. And Sam is feeling that maybe he can finally get to a place with Dean where they ‘have’ each other for the first time in years, where there is the same respect for Sam on Dean’s side that Sam has always had for Dean. But it is Dean who needs to acknowledge the nature of the problem.
They are brothers, they should be equals.
[quote]
And lets not forget, on more than one occasion, Dean wanted to die, and leave his brother alone. He did it as recently as the middle of last season. He did it in season 2.
[/quote]
You know that is an interesting point. Dean is quite ready to leave Sam alone, but the other way around doesn’t work for him.
Last season Sam was willing to do whatever to keep Dean [i]well[/i] (which is a stage-up from alive) he took on the trials, initially by accident but then kept them because he could see that Dean would make it a suicide trip. He did that in Season 3 too when Dean was ‘kamikaze’, he was willing to be a zombie with Dean so that the endless awfulness of that life wouldn’t have had to be borne alone by Dean, and I believe he agreed to live both in the church and in the hospital purely for Dean’s mental health. For Sam he will do anything (for Dean) while life is viable. He is willing to work at LIFE that it should be worth living if you are alive.
For Dean, well Death told him:
“You throw away your life because you’ve come to assume that it will bounce right back into your lap. “
and he assumes that for Sam too. He doesn’t really need to change, or work on his relationship with his little brother because in the end he can ALWAYS save Sam from anything and he has gotten to the stage where he believes that is all that is required, all that matters. Dean is about big gestures because he doesn’t see the small ones any more. (when he threw away the amulet that was a big gesture rejection of Sam who had originally made the small gesture offering of the only thing he had to give as a Christmas present while he was a kid, both brothers had come to see it as a connection between them as the years rolled by because Dean wore it the whole time they were estranged).
Yes at the moment Sam is in a better emotional place than Dean, (even though he may be suicidal still). Dean really needs to clearly understand what he is doing and stop thinking supernaturally and start thinking like a human.
I may be wrong but I feel that the black humor in Dean’s last real conversation with Sam before Sam was to go finish the trials where he pointed out all his ‘faults’ again was because it had finally gotten to the stage where Dean was not afraid of losing Sam, because losing Sam is NEVER going to happen. So for Dean he could have a ‘bantering big brother’ conversation and for Sam he heard the death knell of any remaining empathy/feeling/respect his brother had for him … but also maybe he heard that his brother was going to be able to let him go if the trials killed him (and what is sad is that that may have been a hopeful thought for him). Perception is a two way street.
I think that Sam didn’t know for sure that the trials were going to kill him until he started the last one with Crowley or he might have tried to say goodbye to Dean – imagine for Dean if that had been his last words to his brother?
I would love to think that what the show is trying to do is say ACTUALLY you need to work at life (and relationships) while you are alive, not try to fix it unnaturally when both are gone.
It is very ironic that at the moment Dean is probably beginning to believe it is possible to ‘lose’ Sam .. while Sam is alive. And Sam is feeling that maybe he can finally get to a place with Dean where they ‘have’ each other for the first time in years, where there is the same respect for Sam on Dean’s side that Sam has always had for Dean. But it is Dean who needs to acknowledge the nature of the problem.
They are brothers, they should be equals.
lol haircut.
i think that sums it up.
more theories on the mark anyone?
lol haircut.
i think that sums it up.
more theories on the mark anyone?
My theory on the MOC is that in order to truly activate it, Dean is going to have to kill Sam and this will be the season cliffhanger. Either Dean thinking about killing Sam, fade to black; Dean thinking about killing Sam and rejecting it, only to find the Mark has negative effects if he doesn’t kill Sam; or Dean trying to kill Sam because the Mark is affecting him. If it is the third choice I would guess the the unresolved issues about Sam’s autonomy, Sam not forgiving Dean for what he did, Sam’s statement that he was willing to die at the church while closing the Gates of Hell NOT to activate the MOC will cloud Dean’s judgement. But that’s just how I would go, and I have never predicted any twist on Supernatural correctly.
My theory on the MOC is that in order to truly activate it, Dean is going to have to kill Sam and this will be the season cliffhanger. Either Dean thinking about killing Sam, fade to black; Dean thinking about killing Sam and rejecting it, only to find the Mark has negative effects if he doesn’t kill Sam; or Dean trying to kill Sam because the Mark is affecting him. If it is the third choice I would guess the the unresolved issues about Sam’s autonomy, Sam not forgiving Dean for what he did, Sam’s statement that he was willing to die at the church while closing the Gates of Hell NOT to activate the MOC will cloud Dean’s judgement. But that’s just how I would go, and I have never predicted any twist on Supernatural correctly.
I can see Abbadon using Sam to coerce Dean into joining her in ruling hell or possessing Sam to cause havoc on earth. Dean’s choice a)join Abbadon to save Sam or b) kill Sam to save him from Abbadon. I am with you I have never been able to predict a SPN cliffhanger.
I can see Abbadon using Sam to coerce Dean into joining her in ruling hell or possessing Sam to cause havoc on earth. Dean’s choice a)join Abbadon to save Sam or b) kill Sam to save him from Abbadon. I am with you I have never been able to predict a SPN cliffhanger.
I do admit “Hey, let’s burn off Sam’s anti-possession tattoo” seems like an idea that is just waiting to bite them in the butt.
I do admit “Hey, let’s burn off Sam’s anti-possession tattoo” seems like an idea that is just waiting to bite them in the butt.
😆 no wait 😥
😆 no wait 😥
[quote name=”percysowner”]I do admit “Hey, let’s burn off Sam’s anti-possession tattoo” seems like an idea that is just waiting to bite them in the butt.[/quote]
Yeah, but a quick trip to the tattoo parlour would fix that. Oh, to be the tattoo artist that got that cushy number!
[quote]I do admit “Hey, let’s burn off Sam’s anti-possession tattoo” seems like an idea that is just waiting to bite them in the butt.[/quote]
Yeah, but a quick trip to the tattoo parlour would fix that. Oh, to be the tattoo artist that got that cushy number!
[quote name=”Manzanita Crow”][quote name=”percysowner”]I do admit “Hey, let’s burn off Sam’s anti-possession tattoo” seems like an idea that is just waiting to bite them in the butt.[/quote]
Yeah, but a quick trip to the tattoo parlour would fix that. Oh, to be the tattoo artist that got that cushy number![/quote]
I believe it will turn out to be Dean who needs a backup tattoo that Abbadon doesn’t know about … 🙂
[quote][quote]I do admit “Hey, let’s burn off Sam’s anti-possession tattoo” seems like an idea that is just waiting to bite them in the butt.[/quote]
Yeah, but a quick trip to the tattoo parlour would fix that. Oh, to be the tattoo artist that got that cushy number![/quote]
I believe it will turn out to be Dean who needs a backup tattoo that Abbadon doesn’t know about … 🙂
eilf I kind of think the MOC is going to protect Dean from possession. Even though they kind of set up that possibility earlier this season.
eilf I kind of think the MOC is going to protect Dean from possession. Even though they kind of set up that possibility earlier this season.
[quote name=”cheryl42″]eilf I kind of think the MOC is going to protect Dean from possession. Even though they kind of set up that possibility earlier this season.[/quote]
I was just wondering if a 🙂 was the best way to end my comment ….
I don’t know, either Dean is 100% in the right about how brotherhood dynamics should work or (storywise) he needs to see first hand what was the problem with what he did, and since he has never been possessed it is hard for him to really know how tough that is for a person … so since it was foreshadowed earlier this season it sort of seems like a possibility.
I know that it seems like they removed Sam’s tattoo and so he is at risk too, but honestly that is just how it had to work for the storyline, Crowley couldn’t possess him until the tattoo was gone. But considering everything that has just happened to Sam it would be absolutely stupid for him not have had the tattoo replaced already. If the storyline leaves it like that – weeks later Sam is still unprotected and can be possessed by Abbadon then they really need new writers … 😕
Or maybe nobody is getting possessed and the Mark of Cain is going to start manifesting its powers pretty soon.
[quote]eilf I kind of think the MOC is going to protect Dean from possession. Even though they kind of set up that possibility earlier this season.[/quote]
I was just wondering if a 🙂 was the best way to end my comment ….
I don’t know, either Dean is 100% in the right about how brotherhood dynamics should work or (storywise) he needs to see first hand what was the problem with what he did, and since he has never been possessed it is hard for him to really know how tough that is for a person … so since it was foreshadowed earlier this season it sort of seems like a possibility.
I know that it seems like they removed Sam’s tattoo and so he is at risk too, but honestly that is just how it had to work for the storyline, Crowley couldn’t possess him until the tattoo was gone. But considering everything that has just happened to Sam it would be absolutely stupid for him not have had the tattoo replaced already. If the storyline leaves it like that – weeks later Sam is still unprotected and can be possessed by Abbadon then they really need new writers … 😕
Or maybe nobody is getting possessed and the Mark of Cain is going to start manifesting its powers pretty soon.
I am thinking that if Dean has the mark of Cain and Cain was the leader of the Knights of Hell that maybe Dean can’t be possessed (at least by a demon). Although I think he will start to be controlled by the Mark, maybe doing things he might never have done.
I agree since Sam has had issues with possession it wouldn’t be very smart not to be re-tattooed. Do you think Dean told Sam about Abbadon’s threat to rip off Dean’s tattoo? I hope that is information that Sam gets 5 minutes before he needs it.
I am thinking that if Dean has the mark of Cain and Cain was the leader of the Knights of Hell that maybe Dean can’t be possessed (at least by a demon). Although I think he will start to be controlled by the Mark, maybe doing things he might never have done.
I agree since Sam has had issues with possession it wouldn’t be very smart not to be re-tattooed. Do you think Dean told Sam about Abbadon’s threat to rip off Dean’s tattoo? I hope that is information that Sam gets 5 minutes before he needs it.
[quote name=”cheryl42″]I am thinking that if Dean has the mark of Cain and Cain was the leader of the Knights of Hell that maybe Dean can’t be possessed (at least by a demon). Although I think he will start to be controlled by the Mark, maybe doing things he might never have done.
I agree since Sam has had issues with possession it wouldn’t be very smart not to be re-tattooed. Do you think Dean told Sam about Abbadon’s threat to rip off Dean’s tattoo? I hope that is information that Sam gets 5 minutes before he needs it.[/quote]
You mean instead of 5 minutes too late? 😛
So I sort of have this confused chain of logic that goes:
Cain is a knight of hell
Cain has a mark
Cain can use the mark and the weapon to kill the other knights of hell
The mark can be passed on to someone else
That person can kill Cain
That leads me to think that Abbadon being a knight of hell and possibly ‘worthy’ since we don’t know what ‘worthy’ really means may be capable of taking on the mark … and if so she might just as well possess the person carrying it.
Honestly I get that that makes no earthly sense but with SPN you kinda have to look at things upside down…
I sort of have an idea that it is Gadreel who will end up having the final showdown with Abbadon, maybe as a way of atoning for the things he has done wrong?
[quote]I am thinking that if Dean has the mark of Cain and Cain was the leader of the Knights of Hell that maybe Dean can’t be possessed (at least by a demon). Although I think he will start to be controlled by the Mark, maybe doing things he might never have done.
I agree since Sam has had issues with possession it wouldn’t be very smart not to be re-tattooed. Do you think Dean told Sam about Abbadon’s threat to rip off Dean’s tattoo? I hope that is information that Sam gets 5 minutes before he needs it.[/quote]
You mean instead of 5 minutes too late? 😛
So I sort of have this confused chain of logic that goes:
Cain is a knight of hell
Cain has a mark
Cain can use the mark and the weapon to kill the other knights of hell
The mark can be passed on to someone else
That person can kill Cain
That leads me to think that Abbadon being a knight of hell and possibly ‘worthy’ since we don’t know what ‘worthy’ really means may be capable of taking on the mark … and if so she might just as well possess the person carrying it.
Honestly I get that that makes no earthly sense but with SPN you kinda have to look at things upside down…
I sort of have an idea that it is Gadreel who will end up having the final showdown with Abbadon, maybe as a way of atoning for the things he has done wrong?
I am hoping that Gadreel is going to realize he put his eggs in the wrong basket. I would really like for him to not be a “psycho angel” just very confused.
I am hoping that Gadreel is going to realize he put his eggs in the wrong basket. I would really like for him to not be a “psycho angel” just very confused.
[quote name=”cheryl42″]I am hoping that Gadreel is going to realize he put his eggs in the wrong basket. I would really like for him to not be a “psycho angel” just very confused.[/quote]
Yes, me too. I can’t see how they can get around his having killed Kevin to redeem him though …. seems the only thing they can do is have him die doing something noble.
I think Gadreel is naive, I think he has only ever done one thing until now and that is make a mistake for which he was never forgiven and had him spending an eternity in prison. I also think it was a bit rich of Castiel to be so gung-ho about blaming him for what he did since:
a) It was a mistake caused because … gosh … Gadreel was ‘too trusting’ (where had we heard that phase just seconds previously).
b) Castiel wins in the ‘lets really try and destroy God’s creation’ stakes having been directly involved in that … TWICE!
But anyway … Gadreel has had no chance to acclimatise to the world so he is still pretty close to factory settings … meaning limited free will and the tendency to follow a leader. Also he believes himself to be a soldier, he believes that if he is going to follow someone then he should do it well and as a soldier he followed Metatron’s orders. To quote ‘A Few Good Men’: “We follow orders, son. We follow orders or people die. It’s that simple. Are we clear?”
So whether that makes Gadreel anything other than a pawn, or capable of being anything else or whether the show expects us to think of him as a big bad I don’t know …
[quote]I am hoping that Gadreel is going to realize he put his eggs in the wrong basket. I would really like for him to not be a “psycho angel” just very confused.[/quote]
Yes, me too. I can’t see how they can get around his having killed Kevin to redeem him though …. seems the only thing they can do is have him die doing something noble.
I think Gadreel is naive, I think he has only ever done one thing until now and that is make a mistake for which he was never forgiven and had him spending an eternity in prison. I also think it was a bit rich of Castiel to be so gung-ho about blaming him for what he did since:
a) It was a mistake caused because … gosh … Gadreel was ‘too trusting’ (where had we heard that phase just seconds previously).
b) Castiel wins in the ‘lets really try and destroy God’s creation’ stakes having been directly involved in that … TWICE!
But anyway … Gadreel has had no chance to acclimatise to the world so he is still pretty close to factory settings … meaning limited free will and the tendency to follow a leader. Also he believes himself to be a soldier, he believes that if he is going to follow someone then he should do it well and as a soldier he followed Metatron’s orders. To quote ‘A Few Good Men’: “We follow orders, son. We follow orders or people die. It’s that simple. Are we clear?”
So whether that makes Gadreel anything other than a pawn, or capable of being anything else or whether the show expects us to think of him as a big bad I don’t know …
I really really loved this episode and I have my own crazy theory.
I’m not relly sure about Evil!Dean here but I think Demon!Dean very likely. Dean swore that he’ll kill Abbadon and I’m sure he’ll keep his promise of killing Crowley afterwards. Cain will call him and he’ll kill Cain. Question now: Who’ll be the new King of Hell? Well, who is better for that job than a newly demonized Dean?