Dean’s Mary – Why I like Lisa
‘One never reaches home. But whenever friendly paths intersect the whole world looks like home for a time‘, Hermann Hesse once wrote.
‘One never reaches home. But whenever friendly paths intersect the whole world looks like home for a time‘, Hermann Hesse once wrote. Some people provide those intersections in our lives, and Lisa is the woman who did so after Dean was devastated, broken and utterly alone after losing his brother.
I have liked Lisa from the first moment on we met her in ‘The Kids Are Alright’. She was, after a bendy weekend a lifetime ago, a fantasy of Dean’s (as he was one of hers, probably, why else would did she tell some of her girlfriends about ‘the’ Dean, eh?), and – as we learned later in ‘Dream A Little Dream of Me’ and ’99 Problems’ – she was, indeed, who he was dreaming about when he imagined himself happy. After deciding to say yes to Michael, Lisa was the person Dean needed to speak to before embarking on his suicide mission.
Dean needed to see Lisa one more time, tell her that he loved her (he might not have used those words, but what else does it mean when a man comes up and says: when I picture myself happy, it’s with you?). He didn’t stay to say good-bye to Ben, the kid that he had grown to love like a father. I assume, Dean simply wasn’t capable of looking at the boy again – the obvious and imminent loss of the child probably would have been too much for him.
I liked Lisa before, but in that scene she won my heart. And even more so after we’ve seen her give Dean a home with as much warmth, tenderness and care as he needed. Had Dean not promised to Sam that he would return to her, he, in all likelihood, would not be alive anymore. He would have died trying to get Sam out of Lucifer’s cage and pissing off the odd powerful demon, or he would have died by committing suicide, or, simply, by a broken heart. I believe that it is possible to die of a broken heart, to put it poetically. When sadness becomes so overwhelming that it washes away physical strength, in short: weakens the heart muscle, the immune system, the lungs, disturbs the sleep rhythm, confuses the appetite… when it becomes a river of lead slowly solidifying every important physical function. Eventually we die of some kind of organ failure, but the beginning might have been the deepest and most distressing sorrow.
Dean had already begun to climb that staircase to tragedy when he showed up at Lisa’s door. Even after all he had seen in his young life, losing his brother in the manner it happened was too much by far. He wasn’t okay. No amount of alcohol he tried to drown it in was going to change that.
He needed some peace, some warmth to begin to heal. We see evidence of it – he found a job, was a member of the neighbourhood, showed Ben the ropes with their car, etc. This does not mean that he didn’t grieve anymore, but he was back in life’s corner, as opposed to death’s. As hard as it was for him, he felt secure enough within this little family to at least give it a try.
Most of it was avoidance, probably. A variation of the ‘as if’ syndrome. I’m acting as if my life is okay. As if I can find some kind of satisfaction with what I’m doing. As if I am not only a killer and good at slicing throats.
It is remarkable that Lisa took him in, actually. Of course, most of us fans would exclaim: why, sure, every one of us would do that! Yes, well, that wouldn’t be hard to imagine in the fantasy world of our fan girl minds, just look at the guy… But – in real life?
A man who kills paranormal riff raff on an everyday basis shows up at the door. He has been – literally – to hell and back, lost everything dear under the most traumatic of circumstances, most importantly his brother. He suffers from nightmares, probably wakes up at night screaming. He drinks too much. He is a control freak and needs to check the doors every night, keeps his trade’s weaponry close and enough salt nearby. His behaviour is inconsistent. He’s jumpy, nervous, sometimes absent minded, profoundly sad.
If a woman allows such a broken man to enter her life on a complete level as Lisa allowed Dean to do, she is extraordinary, don’t you think? It does require a huge amount of courage to do that. Lisa didn’t know Dean well at the time he showed up on her doorstep.
She offers him the kind of home he has hardly ever known before and Dean has problems handling it, of course. He still feels undeserving, and Lisa knows him so damn well: ‘you’re white knuckling it, living like this. Like what you are is some bad awful thing.’
Lisa knew what she signed up for the moment she let him in. Dean has been on edge most of the time, and Lisa surely knows what he needs to keep under his bed (I assume she does some house cleaning once in a while…) She sees through most of his white lies, I’d say, knowing that he only wants to protect her, that his worry about Sam somewhat shifted to her and Ben and he needs to feel needed in that way. She feels with clarity that his ‘I’m alright’ is only masking his inner turmoil. But Lisa allows him for the most time to keep his game face up because that keeps Dean functioning. In fact, she gives Dean the freedom every person needs within a relationship.
In a relationship we don’t become one all of a sudden. We still are different people. In mathematical set theory we speak of intersection, the part of two sets A and B (or Dean and Lisa) that contains all elements of A that also belong to B. But there are plenty of elements of both that don’t belong to neither. And that is very important in a relationship. Symbiosis is lethal for any healthy relationship. From what we know it’s safe to assume that Lisa never asked Dean to entirely give up his former life, a life she knows plenty about. To me their closeness reads like: he told her pretty much everything, perhaps only left out the too gory parts. She accepts to move house and taking her kid out of his familiar surroundings.
She does all that because her instincts and intuition tell her that this is an essentially good guy, despite his ‘couple of issues’. Because he is the kind of father to Ben the boy has never known. ‘You know what I wanted more than anything was a guy Ben could look up to like a dad. So you’re saying it’s all bad, Dean? Cause it was the best year of my life.’
Lisa is the one who has tried to make Dean see a different perspective. I understand that so well, because I sometimes need that, too. I tend to panic when some unforeseen heavy problem slams right into my face and I need an hour or a day to pull myself together and start working on it (much like Sam, actually). But when a friend puts my view into perspective again and helps me to see another side of it (which in a moment of fear I don’t see), the whole thing is smoothed and easier overcome.
Lisa has been doing that for Dean, I guess for as long as they had been together.
Lisa: ‘The one thing I do know is: you’re not a construction worker. You’re a hunter. And now you know your brother’s out there things are different. You don’t wanna be here, Dean.’
Dean: ‘yes, I do.’
Lisa: ‘Okay, but you also wanna be there. I get it. You’re white knuckling it, living like this. Like what you are is some bad awful thing. But you’re not. And I’m not gonna have his discussion every time you leave. And this is just gonna keep happening. So, I need you to go.’
Dean: ‘I can’t lose you and Ben.’
Lisa: ‘This is not what I am saying.’
Dean: ‘You’re saying: hit the road.’
Lisa: ‘Dean, if there is some rule that says it has to be either – or, how about we break it? Me and Ben will be here, you come when you can. Just come in one piece, okay?’
Dean: ‘You really think we can pull something like that off?’
Lisa: ‘It’s worth a shot, right?’
She does what Mary would have done for John, had Papa Winchester become a hunter in her lifetime (as it might have happened, had not Michael wiped their memory in ‘The Song Remains The Same’). She provides the safe harbor any soldier needs when leaving for battle. Since she is in love with the guy, she is probably white knuckling it herself, living like this, loving like this. But she doesn’t show it. She needs Dean to feel safe about her and Ben to do his job and come back in one piece.
A lifetime ago, when the man I loved was shipped off to Desert Storm I was crazy with fear for his life sometimes. For me (as it is for Lisa) it was the first time of experiencing war this closely. I was very young, a student, not yet intimately familiar with all the ways of the world, but I knew from my dad what war is about. He had fought in World War II as a teenager to protect his home of Bosnia and sustained a shot in the head then, barely survived. I thought of that and of what I had learned about war from countless documentaries and books. I was afraid for my guy’s life. But I never told him how I couldn’t sleep or that I had trouble eating when I knew that he was in a hot zone at some point. What I did, though, was write to him day after day that I believed in him, that I loved him, that I was here when he came back. I wanted to give him a reason to come back in one piece.
Lisa is doing just the same for Dean. Assuring him that she can handle it, no matter what. That she’ll be here.
In fact, she is setting him free to be the man he needs to be.
Only one thing really confuses her to the brink of breaking up the whole arrangement – the moment when Dean shoves Ben in his vamp state, literally endangering her child.
And I’d say there isn’t one mother out there who would not react in a similar way: protect her kid at all costs. Lisa is undoubtedly torn, here, but she has to take care of Ben first, even if that means to send Dean away. She knows that Dean would never deliberately hurt her son, so there has to be a clarification Dean simply isn’t able to give her. The truth she gives to him in ‘You Can’t Handle the Truth’ might be harsh, but those are the words of a woman who deeply cares about this man who still isn’t able to explain to her what happened that night. Dean probably is too afraid to actually explain that he had become one of the monsters he had been fighting all his life. He brought his life home. His awful self, to paraphrase Lisa’s assessment of Dean’s opinion of himself. I can only assume that Dean is too ashamed to say it out loud. Even when his relationship with the woman he loves is at stake.
‘You’ve got so much buried in there, you push it down and you push it down…Do you honestly think that you can go through life like that and not freak out? Just, what?, drink half a fifth at night and you’re good?’ How painful must it have been for Lisa to watch Dean go on like that? A man she barely knew when she took him in, a man she grew to love in the course of this year that managed to become the best year of her life, despite all his issues. She knows what he is able to give, the tenderness, the care, the smiles, the moments of normality.
She has no tools as of yet to handle this situation. Her strategy of choice for the time being is – distance. She has so many questions, and they need to be answered, and I do hope they will.
These two have the ‘closest thing to happiness’ a hunter can get, as Bobby would describe it. And I would love to see them sort it out, most of all: I’d love to see Dean explain to Lisa all those fears he has been too afraid to voice. And, with what we’ve seen of her so far, she would accept it all. Perhaps decide that – for the safety of her child – they could not be together. But she would not push Dean away for the reasons he fears. She does love him. She is real, authentic, doesn’t cotton-wrap or idealize him. She could give him what Mary gave to John, what Jessica gave to Sam – the notion of having a home. She is the woman who could provide him with a family outside of his relationship with Sam. To truly realize that he can go on living without his brother, if forced upon him. Who knows, perhaps Sam will die one day and Dean will not be able to bring him back. We have no idea where the story will travel to. I would love to see Dean find peace in a family he can love. But even without this worst case scenario – who says there is a rule a hunter can’t find happiness to some extent? Team Free Will, anyone?
Hi Jas,
Great article! I really appreciate the way Lisa has been written as a character — strong, independent, honest, straightforward, down to earth and protective of family!!! And I really, really like the Dean/Lisa relationship. Part of that is because I’m a bit of a Pollyanna, and really want to see everyone paired up. All of us deserve a loving and supportive partner, someone to laugh with and cry with. For me, it adds to the adventure of the life journey.
As well, when you’re truly loved, you have the great gift of seeing yourself as that person sees you. Sometimes the truth hurts, and you see your faults exposed. In Dean’s case that means Lisa reminded him of the truth of his dysfunctional relationship with Sam, his tendency to repress and bury all difficult experiences and emotions, and his inability to trust enough to share the truth with those he really loves for fear of being judged, and losing that love.
But I so totally agree that Lisa helped (and could have helped even more if Dean was willing to let her inside just a tiny bit more) Dean see some of the amazing positive qualities he has. He was a great father to Ben. In my books, being a good dad would mean he’s patient, tolerant, listens well, teaches and passes on his own knowledge, nurtures, loves and probably plays Wrestle/Tickle! (Oops that’s my house!)
Through Lisa’s eyes, maybe even just for a split second, Dean could see himself the way she sees him – loving, loyal, protective, warm, funny. Maybe still buried inside him is the nugget of knowledge that he’s more than a killer, that he CAN be a dad. Hopefully that knowledge will give him strength in helping Sam and Sam’s soul heal, and give him strength in this new Monster Odysey they’re on. (And for what it’s worth, I still think she was lying about Ben’s paternity, or that someone tampered with the DNA test! But that’s just me. It doesn’t really make a big difference. As the Winchesters show frequently, family is about more than blood!)
I know many people don’t think Dean really loves Lisa. I disagree. I think he loves both the ideal of her, and Lisa the real person. If he didn’t love her, he wouldn’t still be thinking about her, and wanting to call her. Also, they way they were written in the first couple of episodes, they had that easy give/take relationship that you can only establish with people who really understand you, and who love you in spite of your faults, and often because of the way you try to mitigate those weaknesses!
I think evidence of this is Dean is showing Lisa how to use a gun, and he says something along the lines of “I bet you really miss your Ex now.. The boring one?!”. He says it with a laugh and a twinkle, and she laughs back. That’s how we often show love, through easy jokes and gentle teasing.
I wish Dean could tell Lisa why he shoved Ben. I think she would forgive him, although it might make her afraid to have him too close. He is right that the Winchester life is ugly and violent, and dangerous to bring home to a real “home”. I also think Ben is probably more upset by Dean’s sudden disappearance and the complete cessation of communication, than he was by Dean’s outburst. Because kids are kids (and Ben is a lot like pseudo-Dad Dean), I suspect he thinks it’s somehow his fault that Dean left, and is feeling guilty. I’d like to see a scene where Dean can clear up that misconception, and let Ben know just how important he is to Dean.
Also, many are troubled by the lack of overt Public Displays of Affection between Dean and Lisa. That doesn’t worry me. Everybody’s relationship is different, and some people just don’t like to be all touchy-feely, cuddly all the time. There are many other ways to show affection. My husband and I show affection by slinging sarcastic barbs at each other. It’s a funny way of saying “I love you, for your wit and intelligence”, but it works for us. (Word play as foreplay? Is that oversharing?)
I know it’s not really fair to ask Lisa “to wait for Dean”. He says it so many times “this will never be over”. But I hope, somehow, she can always find room in her life for Dean. Maybe she can casual date other men, but Dean will come storming back and there will be some declaration of love. (Doesn’t even have to be those words. Plenty of words say “I love you”. Bitch/jerk, for instance!)
I think showing Dean in a relationship with them is evidence of tremendous character growth, and the writers could mine all of that potential. I don’t want Lisa in every episode, but I like how thus far, they’ve been able to suggest how her home still calls to Dean and to his heart!, how it means something special to him. I don’t think it detracts from Sam & Dean at all, to have Lisa on the periphery. They’d have another place to crash besides Bobby’s! One that might actually have a spare bedroom with real beds and sheets!
I really hope they don’t kill off Lisa and Ben, or just as bad, kill off one but not the other. I want to believe that when the show ends both boys ride off into the sunset, into the arms of a good woman and some well-deserved happiness. And in Dean’s case, if it can’t be me (heavy sigh), well then Lisa is an acceptable second!
So happy that you wrote this? The woman deserves her due! I adore Lisa. In some ways, I think she’s a little nuts, but then what red blooded woman wouldn’t lose some of her senses if Dean Winchester knocked on her door? She is amazing, strong, intelligent, and knows not to attempt to put any sort of leash on Dean. But she is also brave enough to stand up to him, be his equal, and draw boundaries.
I would actually love to know how much Lisa knows. (Not as much as I’m still dying to know how much John knew, but still.) She appeared to know that he was the ‘guy who had basically just saved the world’. But does that mean she has heard the whole thing? Mary’s deal? John’s deal? Dean’s deal? Dean in hell? Demons? Angels? Blood addiction? Michael? Lucifer? Sam leaping into hell? I’ve HUGE doubts she knows all that. “I’m dating the guy who had pizza with Death.†Um…no. Besides, she did say Dean was stuffing things down and seems to be under the impression that it was Dean who brought Sam back somehow. (This time)
I’m actually in the crowd who believes that Dean and Lisa didn’t love each other initially. I agree that he loved the idea of family and she obviously held a place in her dreams for him by her reception in ‘99 Problems’. But love? No, I think that grew out of the year they lived with each other. I believe they were two adults, deciding to try to find a way to make things work, support each other and found mutual strength in that time. It wasn’t (isn’t?) a love of great soaring, clashing, tumultuous passions. But something steadier. Which is what Dean needed anyway. His heart/soul/spirit/body was hardly in shape to undergo a passionate love affair. They worked toward a common goal, grew to know each other, respect each other and love each other.
I know that Lisa isn’t popular with everyone. And I’m also aware that that is an understatement! But I’m a little bummed that her character won’t get the onscreen time it deserves, because this IS Supernatural, which is about Sam and Dean. The brothers, saving people, hunting things, the family business! (And I’m VERY ok with that!) Lisa is an amazing character who I’d love to see developed more than she will be. But no matter her fate (and I’m voting for happy!) I will forever be grateful to her for voicing her opinion to Dean about how he matters simply for being Dean.
She gave him a place of rest, a modicum of peace and happiness in a dark, dark, dark time of his life. She gave him an opportunity to be a Dad, a provider and partner. And he gave her…well, uh. Hm. Other than being The Dean? Jas, you are quite right, living with a man who has gone through everything he went through would be difficult past measure. But he made her happy, despite all that. Which is why he is, after all, THE Dean. 🙂
Anyway, I’m definitely in the pro-Lisa crowd and am pleased to see a positive article posted about her. I even have a little wish list of things for her character (that I’m well aware will NEVER happen), but the list exists. 1. See her and Sam have a conversation, preferably about WHY Dean shoved Ben. 2. Have her meet Cass. Not certain why this idea makes me smile so much. 3. A sort of ghost walk/dream audit of a Winchester Hunt from her POV. Cheesy, yes. Unpopular, definitely. But this is my list, so nanner! 4. Once more with Dean at least? That was a cruel teaser that Dean woke from. And the question still remains, is the hand print missing from his shoulder only in his (hawt) dream life, or has it gone missing in real life as well? I’m sure there is at least one or two others who would agree to the importance of getting THAT answered.;-)
And this has, yet again, run on way to friggin long. Thanks for the article Jas!
I love Yvonne’s wish list of things for the Lisa character. Especially to chats with Sam & Cas, and she and Bobby could commisserate about the boys too! They could call them idjits. To your list, I would add Lisa helping a Hurt!Dean (maybe First Aid?), or assisting him in finishing a hunt because he’s injured and can’t do it himself, or something like that. (why are injured Winchesters so attractive.. Note to self – there’s an article there.) And of course, you can just bet that Dean’s words to Ben about never handling a gun are likely to come back and bite him in the bum! Seeing Ben help save the day like he did in TKAAR would be nice symmetry.
Ooooh ya! I like how you think Pragmatic Dreamer! (PG? Prag Dream? Pragmatic? Do you mind nicknames?) Arde will probably jump on the Hurt!Dean bandwagon. (Poor fella) Though we did already see Jo applying first aid…so my vote is for the assist in a hunt. Ya 🙂 After all, he taught her how to lay down salt and shoot a gun. I wouldn’t say she should drop her Yoga career to go Hunting, but I bet she’d be capable (if freaked out) in a tight spot.
Oh, and yes to you writing an article! Keep up that train of thought! It’s a good one. 😎
Thanks Jas for voicing your love to Lisa. I am right with you there. I always liked her from the first time we saw her and I was very pleased when the writers brought her back. I also love Ben.
Have this scene in my head that I would like to show up:
Cell is ringing. Dean picks it up “Yeah” “Dean we are in trouble!” “Ben?” “Yes” “What is going on?” “Mom and I have the felling we are being followed and weired things happen around the house. I asked Mom to call you but she sayed that we shouldn’t bother you. That she can handle it. But now she is hurt.” “Don’t worry son I will be there immidiatly.”
Would love that or something to that account happening just so that we are able to meet up again with Lisa and Ben.
PragmaticDreamer, janible, Yume, Yvonne,Yirabah, thank you so much for your comments and the interesting discussion here.
PragmaticDreamer,
I am right with you. Love the idea of the tampered DNA test… hehe… He found a real partner with Lisa, but I doubt that he is able to see himself through her eyes, yet. I see that so often in my work, you know – people are loved in many different ways and still they are not able to understand why someone would love them, since they deem themselves not love-worthy or not good enough. It takes a lot of time to actually believe that, and I do hope that Dean will learn to see what Lisa (and, well, all of us) have seen in him from moment one. And though it may not be fair to ask of her to wait for him, it is, after all, her own decision. She knew what she signed up for, and she does so because she cares about him. Gutsy woman, indeed.
I love that picture of the boys riding off into the sunset into the arms of a good woman… sigh, fan girl fantasies galore…
Janible,
Thank you so much for sharing your personal moments with us. It truly is an act of love ‘to obey’ in a warlike situation, since you do it not only to protect yourself and the kid, but also take a part of the burden from the shoulders of the man you love.
Isn’t that what we do, when we love? Try to make it easier for the one we love? Of course we can’t really lift weight from the other’s soul, but by being there and sharing, it gets more bearable.
Yume,
You stress what I have observed with the single mothers I know. They are indeed more protective of their children than the married ones. Not that those weren’t protective, but the knowledge to have to do it on one’s own is heavy and it leaves traces. It’s a different way of life, to take care about everything on their own. And I think any woman who manages to do that is a heroine in my eyes.
I agree that she probably underestimated the danger. Surely Dean left out the particularly gory and ugly bits in his account of his life, and for someone who is not familiar with that world, imagining it would be pretty hard.
Yvonne,
I am just as curious as you to find out how much Lisa actually knows. I think when we love someone or ‘just the idea’ of someone, the feeling is still the same. Perhaps Dean didn’t love Lisa in the way he does now, but the idea that she was there had been helpful to him in probably many situations. And I agree that what Dean needs is a steadily burning fire. A flame that burns too how wears itself out with time. And she gives him a home, the warmth of it and he support we find only there.
I love your list of things you’d like to see! And your idea, PragmaticDreamer, by the way… injured Winchesters are attractive, well, what can I say? I’m a woman… (I’d like to see that article, too, dear).
Yirabah,
Lovely idea! I am quite sure there will be the odd dangerous situation. From what I read, Lisa is going to be in at least one more episode. So, perhaps we’ll see something in that neighbourhood there… I just don’t want them to get really hurt, as in: die. Would be a classical way of this show to get rid of its female characters. And women often don’t survive an encounter with the Winchesters…
Again – thank you for your elaborate comments. I simply wanted to give Lisa a little love, since she is not popular within the fandom, I know, but some of us – as can be seen – like her and appreciate her role in Dean’s life. In many ways she saved his life, don’t you think, simply by being there for him and providing him with shelter, love, warmth, the whole caboodle…
Love, Jas
Thank you Jas, you know I loved this and totally agree with all everyone has said here.
Lisa is an amazing woman, she took in this damaged man on the strength of one weekend (albeit a bendy one) and 2 short visits. She provided exactly what he needed and what we all desperately wanted him to find, and as Pragmatic Dreamer says exactly what we would love to provide but we cant, mainly because he is a fictional character ( sadly he IS a fictional character)
I too hope that these two characters who provide this little haven in the sea of madness and violence are never killed off, surely TPAB could never be this cruel, could they?
I am so pleased that Lisa and Ben are to return. I have been boring everyone rigid banging on about how I wanted them to come back as the way everything was left hanging after YCHTT just felt so wrong to me, it did not fit with the way Lisa had been written up to this point. I could not accept that a woman who obviously loves a man and would tell him that she, despite all the problems, has just spent the best year of her life would not demand answers after he appears in the night, obviously extremely distressed, acting out of character, pushing the child she knows he loves and saying he is going to die soon, especially as she knows what his `job` is and the life she had set him free to return to. If she did not want these answers for herself she needs them to explain to her child why his `Dad` has gone AWOL.
I would love to know what was in that letter to Ben and would like to think that maybe Dr. Robert posted it anyway. I also love Yvonnes list, especially the idea of the explanation of the ill fated late night visit coming from Sam. Great idea there !
I really dont get where all the bad feeling towards Lisa came from. If people say they love these characters why on earth would they want to deny them any spark of happiness they can find?
Thanks again Love Ju
Thank you Jas, you know I loved this and totally agree with all everyone has said here.
Lisa is an amazing woman, she took in this damaged man on the strength of one weekend (albeit a bendy one) and 2 short visits. She provided exactly what he needed and what we all desperately wanted him to find, and as Pragmatic Dreamer says exactly what we would love to provide but we cant, mainly because he is a fictional character ( sadly he IS a fictional character)
I too hope that these two characters who provide this little haven in the sea of madness and violence are never killed off, surely TPAB could never be this cruel, could they?
I am so pleased that Lisa and Ben are to return. I have been boring everyone rigid banging on about how I wanted them to come back as the way everything was left hanging after YCHTT just felt so wrong to me, it did not fit with the way Lisa had been written up to this point. I could not accept that a woman who obviously loves a man and would tell him that she, despite all the problems, has just spent the best year of her life would not demand answers after he appears in the night, obviously extremely distressed, acting out of character, pushing the child she knows he loves and saying he is going to die soon, especially as she knows what his `job` is and the life she had set him free to return to. If she did not want these answers for herself she needs them to explain to her child why his `Dad` has gone AWOL.
I would love to know what was in that letter to Ben and would like to think that maybe Dr. Robert posted it anyway. I also love Yvonnes list, especially the idea of the explanation of the ill fated late night visit coming from Sam. Great idea there !
I really dont get where all the bad feeling towards Lisa came from. If people say they love these characters why on earth would they want to deny them any spark of happiness they can find?
Thanks again Love Ju
Ok laptop obviously haunted, anybody recommend a good exorcist round here 😉
Hmm…interesting. I never thought to ever compare Lisa to Mary and still don’t see her as coming close nor ever getting there.
Mind you, this not to be viewed as Lisa bashing or any nonsense like that, but ever since this season, i have stopped seeing Lisa as being the right influence or person for Dean. In fact, out of that whole year, i think Ben has had the most influence on Dean than Lisa.
I think Lisa’s role in Dean’s life was something i quite liked by the end of season 5 because i thought she would be able to lend him the kind of help that Sam didn’t have when he lost Dean. And she did to a point. Why i don’t think she is similar to Mary nor Dean’s Mary is because unlike Mary, Lisa did what she did for Dean mainly for her own benefit of having a man. And that came off very desperate(a trait i don’t like in women) and irresponsible only because she had a son to protect and look after above all. Mary would have never let in a stranger who she didn’t know much about and who is drinking and is suicidal into her home with her children. She would instead, try to help him through other means that didn’t include endangering her child even if the stranger in question once helped her save her son. And for someone to say, the year you spent mostly drinking and wallowing in grief was the best year of her life is just shocking to me.
And at the end of the whole experience, all Dean got out of that was that he is only meant to be a worthless killer(like he doesn’t get enough of that from the things they hunt) and would never make a good dad and that as long as Sam is in his life, he would never be happy(because that year without Sam, grieving his death, heavily drinking, sad, and not even hunting was such a happy year to contrast with) ignoring the fact that she wouldn’t have gotten the best year of her life if Sam didn’t make Dean promise to go to her(something i don’t think Dean ever told her) and that she has only known Dean in a small amount of time, mostly when he is about to die or has lost someone dear to him. And then, i think its a deal breaker and a source of future problems for a relationship where one of them doesn’t like the other’s family, especially when that family is a brother who means a lot to that person. I can’t see how that would bode well for the long term. And for her to say Dean keeps it all bottled up( i i have to say, is she speaking about his year of grieving about Sam because that is the longest time she has spent with Dean and to expect Dean to be all open and sunshine is beyond me.)
And most of all, i think she is still a fantasy for Dean. He hasn’t yet reconciled the reality with the fantasy. I don’t know what sane woman thinks a relationship with a man who is on the road and far away and gone for will work out for the best; especially when said man could die at any moment on the job since said man has already died several times on the job. It should be scary and frightening to say goodbye to a loved one who you could never see again. In real life, substitute hunting for any dangerous job that takes a partner on the road and away for long bursts of time and find me a family and relationship that is sunshine and happiness. I thought Dean wanted the apple pie life, yet he is out on the road away from said apple pie life putting himself in danger and not thinking about the loss and pain his death could cause them.
I like Dean and Ben(although he needs some serious fleshing out beyond the Marionette of Dean) because Dean represents Dean greatest desire. Shame he was the one hurt the most by Dean’s banishment from Lisa’s life.
I think Dean can find another woman who suits him better when he decides how much he wants to hunt on the road versus how much he wants that apple pie life. Last time, he was thrusts prematurely into it by a promise to a dead brother, now, if all things go well, when he does seek them out or seeks an apple pie life out, it would be sorely of his own volition and making and i think that would be a catalyst to a better outcome. Dean needs to be ready for it and to maybe semi-retire from hunting like Bobby who isn’t on the road every day but is at home base but occasionally go hunting if necessary. And if its with Lisa, he needs to come clean about everything, Lisa needs to accept Sam’s place in Dean’s life and heart and they need to be honest with each other for the most part. And maybe then would i think Lisa could be Dean’s Mary.
@anene
not to weigh one woman against the other – I see them as quite different in many ways and similar in some, and I don´t want to judge either – but what Mary did to bring back John – to have a relationship with him! – wouldn´t you call that irresponsible towards her own son and desperate as well? Even far more so? Lisa knew only she was taking a risk, Mary knew that she would be doing damage by saying yes (she was a hunter after all), and still did it.
@anene
not to weigh one woman against the other – I see them as quite different in many ways and similar in some, and I don´t want to judge either – but what Mary did to bring back John – to have a relationship with him! – wouldn´t you call that irresponsible towards her own son and desperate as well? Even far more so? Lisa knew only she was taking a risk, Mary knew that she would be doing damage by saying yes (she was a hunter after all), and still did it.
sorry, network problems!
Thanks Jasminka for your article. I feel exactly the sam for Lisa and I don’t know why so many people seem dislike her so much.
And About Lisa letting Dean in in her life out of desperation to find a dad for Ben… well, sincerely she never seemed so desperate to me. Obviously she wanted that her son had a father (every mother would want this), but she didn’t seem too eager to take home the first male available and palatable on the market. After all she had been doing pretty well for nine years without any man at her side, rising her son all alone, before Dean showed himself at her door in “The kids are all rightâ€. If she really was desperate she would find a man very sooner than nine years. If she was *really really* desperate, probably she would have told him that Ben was his son. And if really ALL she wanted was a father to Ben, she didn’t say what she said to Dean in “Two and a half menâ€: if ALL you need is a father for your son you don’t let the only man you found hit the road with his brother hunting monsters, just because this is what HE need. On the contrary, you would have recriminated and put him before his “responsibilitiesâ€. And finally, the way she greeted him on the door at the end of “Swan Song†speak to me at least of motherly feelings for Dean no less than for Ben. If she really didn’t feel ANYTHING for him, she didn’t greet him like that, she would be way more wary.
I would say (if imagination can supply for lack of information) that she wanted a father for Ben, yes, but not ANY father: she was carefully searching for the BEST man that Ben could relate to as a son. And already in “The kids…†it was very clear that Ben regarded to Dean as a father-figure, just like Dean was acting a bit like a father-figure to him. And I’m sure (again, just my imagination and intuition) that during the first months of that year she came to know Dean’s caring, tender, protective side (that I’m sure he must have been displaying sometimes, “couple of issues†notwithstanding), his will to help other people, his fundamental “goodnessâ€, along with his faults (that she pointed out in “You can’t handle the truthâ€). I’m sure she came to know and LOVE all that. Because that made a good father for Ben, but also a good man for her. A good man, period. At that point I suppose she wanted him in her life not just for Ben’s sake, but because she loved and valued him. She finally found what she was looking for, as a faher as well as as a man, even if he wasn’t “perfectâ€.
Love can arise in very different ways. Sometimes it arises from affection and gratitude. I know it sounds so “old fashioned†for our era of “emotions (better if strong and fast) are allâ€, but it’s true, and it’s LOVE, nevertheless
I do so love Lisa and Jas this is a wonderful article exploring it. It’s such a tragedy that Dean and Lisa can’t be together. I agree with Dean that his life is just too dangerous for them. But even moreso, we discovered last episode that in the Supernatural world those people who do not die when they should, disrupt the natural order and bring sorrow to everyone around them. I think this will give Dean even more reason to stay away from Lisa and Ben.
After You Can’t Handle the Truth, a song shuffled onto my Ipod on my way to work that made me think of Dean and his feelings about himself and his relationship with Lisa, “Call Me” by Shinedown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuDzAQriQP0
My God Jeannine, this song is absolutely perfect.
Thank you so much for the link. Ju
Lovely article. I have loved Lisa since we first met her. Agree with all you said. I truly want Dean to have a home with people who love him to go back to while still hunting or after hanging up his life as a hunter. I have hope this will happen. Do I believe the writers will do this at the end of the series? Nope, no way in hell!.
Julie, anene, Brynhild, Jeannine and Nitewoman, thank you, ladies!
Julie,
dear, I agree wholeheartedly that Lisa and Ben provided a much needed haven for Dean at his most damaged and broken point. I have no good answer as to why some fans dislike the character so much – there are so many points here, twisted jealousy surely comes into the mix, eh?
Anene,
if you look closely, you will see that I am not comparing Mary to Lisa, but say that Lisa could be for Dean what Mary was for John. The woman of his life. You don’t have to agree, of course.
To me her actions never seemed desperate. She doesn’t strike me as a desperate woman at all. And that one year she is referring to surely wasn’t only drinking and grieving. We’ve seen barbecues, Dean showing Ben the ways of the car… there were light moments, too. And I think she was gutsy enough to take the good with the bad.
Brynhild,
thank you, I do agree – love does come many ways, and sometimes we don’t even recognize it right away. Gratitude can be one of those, also tenderness, teasing, taking care, being there, even when one doesn’t know what to say… etc etc etc. It needs to develop, too. And I believe that Lisa grew to love Dean just as he grew to love the family he had there.
I like your lovely penname, by the way. Did you choose it because of the Ring of the Nibelung, by any chance? Sorry to be cheeky, just curious…
Jeannine,
it is really a very sad story. I have no idea how it would work out healthily, since Lisa is not bound to become a hunter and things will always come after Dean… what a horrific dilemma.
I love that song! What a beautiful piece, lovely lyrics, wow. (Alice, I’m singing your praises for installing this thingy here!)
Nitewoman,
yes, I think you have a point there. I don’t think we’ll see that in the show. My fear still is that the writers will kill her off sooner or later. I don’t know how many episodes will feature Lisa from now on, I only know about the one. If they can’t be together (because the storyline demands it) then I’d rather settle for a grown up ‘We can’t make this work’ instead a gory death on a ceiling.
Thank you all for your comments. Take care! Jas
@Jasminka: eh eh, curiosity, your name is female!
Yes, I took my nickname from the walkirie of the story of Siegfried, but more from the original norse saga than from the Wagner’s opera. I’m a fan of ancient epic poems and tales, particularly from the Northern Europe (Snorri Sturluson’s Edda, Beowulf, The Song of the Nibelungs, but also celtic tales as Mabinogion and others…) and of the nordic mythology (but also of the Classic one), which led me to love Tolkien’s work and generally adventurous and epic (and somewhat tragic) stories… like Supernatural. 😛
@Jeannine: Oh god, this song fits perfectly for Dean and Lisa! Someone should do a video about it… :cry::
Jas, that was so beautiful and exactly the way I feel about Lisa. Thank you! And thank you to all the wonderful posts following (they were almost articles as well) LOL!
I love Lisa dearly for how she has treated Dean and taken him in and comforted him. I truly believe that he loves her dearly after having a home with her for a year. He has never been one to spout “I love you” anyway. He shows his love through his actions and empathy and teasing. How many times has he stated “I love you” to Sam, his dad, Ellen, Jo (he showed how much she meant to him as he left her for the last time). It was “Bitch, jerk” with Sammy and respect for dad. For Bobby it was “you’re like a father to me”. I seem to remember him saying it to his mom as a 4 year old in “Dark Side of the Moon”.
Anyway, I’m just happy to read the posts from like minded people who realize the true worth of Lisa and Ben when it comes to our Dean and his self-esteem issues. May they always be there in the background as something to attain when the hunting is over. In other words, DON’T KILL THEM OFF, SERA! 👿
Hi Brynhild and Bevie,
Brynhild, I thought as much. Good taste. I’m not a fan of Wagner’s, I have to admit, but I love those folk tales. My library is full of ’em. thank you for feeding my curiosity… 🙂
Bevie, and isn’t it just lovely how he shows his love? so true, dear. It’s not the ‘I love you’, it’s the action behind those words. And Dean has shown that wonderfully with everyone he loves. Alas, sometimes a bit unhealtily (deal with demons, eh? :o)
Thank you, ladies. Cheers, Jas
I’m so glad to see that there are others out there who actually like Lisa & thought she was good for Dean! I was happy to see her written as a strong & loving woman, compassionate & patient, accepting Dean for who he is. The romantic in me loves the idea of the guys riding off into the sunset with a good woman waiting for each of them (although this is Supernatural, so I doubt it will actually happen).
Although it would have been wonderful to hear Dean & Lisa say “I love you” to each other, I do think they truly love each other. As others have said, I think that love grew gradually over the year they were together & represented much more than the lust & passion they felt for each other on that “bendy weekend” many years prior.
I too would love to know how much Lisa really does know about what Dean has been through, and she does deserve to understand why he acted the way he did when he shoved Ben. I can’t stand the thought that their relationship ended on that misunderstanding. I love the idea of Lisa meeting Castiel & having a good talk with Sam too.
Brynhild, I like your nickname too! I’ve loved mythology since I was a child, & Tolkien is a beloved favorite also. Supernatural certainly fits into my love of heroic & epic tales. I’m half Norwegian, & in researching my geneology, I’ve regained my interest wanting to learn Norse mythology (if only I can find the time to do so!)
Jas, this is fantastic! You basically touched on every reason why I love Lisa, and did it much more eloquently than I could have. Thanks so much for writing this!
Everyone has pretty much already touched upon everything else I would add, but I just want to say that I actually am glad that Ben is not Dean’s biological son. If he was, that means that Dean was an absentee father, albeit unknowingly. Yeah, he probably would be happy that Ben was his, but I’m sure the realization of how much he missed in Ben’s life would hurt him deeply and cause him even more guilt that he really doesn’t need. We all know he has major issues with how much his father was gone from his life, and I’m sure he would not want to repeat that trend.
But, yeah, great article! I really loved it.
Hello Chalaine35, BagginsDVM and Ardeospina, I am happy that you liked this.
Chalaine35,
how about creating a medal for women like her? It would certainly be fun, eh?
Dawn,
the romantic thoughts you mention – I have them, too. You know, perhaps we’ll get that long due conversation about the whole history of this year, perhaps even with Sam and Castiel, and, personally, I think Lisa know a lot about Dean’s former life, to me it seems she is familiar enough with it to not freak out when Dean almost shot that Yorkie (I wonder about the strange Karma of Dean and Yorkies, anyway), she just asked, rather calmly ‘are you hunting?’.
So, I guess she knows a lot, albeit not everything. I think for her protection, Dean left out the particularly gory and cruel bits. But, well, who knows?
Flamey,
Knowing how busy you are these days, I am so very touched that you found time to comment here. Thank you. You know, I think you have an important point there. Dean might add more guilt issues to his burden if he were Ben’s biological dad. On the other hand – just thinking that he could have such a sweet boy, ah, sigh, you see, I hope for them to be happy one day. However impossible that might be on planet Supernatural.
Thank you all ever so much. Love, Jas
I liked what Lisa did for Dean. She was a quite suportive point. And there defenetly were some feelings between them.
For me it proves that Dean is capable of a relationship, something he never had before.
But wiht so many issues and secrets it can´t be a relationship that will last. And now with Dean hunting agin, there is no common ground. Because those wishes you posted will not come true. But I realy, realy hope the writers won´t waste them.
I wish that both Sam + Dean will end up with some kind of romanic relation ship. Hopfully with someone who is althougt a hunter.
Hi Junkerin, thank you. Of course, the wishes we have here will not come true. It’s not exactly in this show, eh? 😉 But a girl can dream…
Interesting idea that both might end up in a relationship with another hunter…
Take care, Jas
Hi Jasminka!
Sorry what´s the english word for a femal hunter? Upps my english writing is somtimes realy bad. I should take some ESL class agin.
That’s ‘huntress’ you’re looking for, dear. No worries about that! 🙂
Hi Jasminka
I also liked Lisa and felt she and Dean were good together.
I would like to see Dean go back with Lisa and Ben in the end, once the series does come to a close.
Just as I would love for Sam to find someone to love and spend his life with too.
Maybe Sarah from Provenance?
It will more than likely not happen that way, as we are talking about Supernatural here. But hey one can dream.
Hi, Karen, what a wonderful thought – Sarah would also be my girl of choice! True, we probably won’t see it, but I like the dream, too.
thank you, dear. Love, Jas
Bit late again … I liked them too but I’m glad they’ve gone.
Love interests seem to have a rather short shelf life in the SPNverse, and if it’s a choice between ditched or dead I’d much rather it was the first one!
It never felt quite right for me with Dean being all domestic, you knew it couldn’t last and the feeling that doom and disaster were just around the corner was doing me in! I was actually quite pleased when it all ended in tears as at least they hadn’t got eaten by anything …
Hi Jas, I too have always really liked Lisa. If I have one problem, it would be with the blood test. She told Dean she took a blood test and he wasn’t the father. How could she know if she didn’t have HIS blood type? I have always hoped that it would come out that Dean was actually Ben’s father. Maybe we can wish for that in the future. 😆
Suze and farchester, hello folks and thank you for commenting!
Suze,
Yes, that’s an ending (if it has to be tragic) I’d prefer, too. Tears. Not a gory death for Lisa and the boy and more pain issues for Dean…
farchester,
intersting point. Perhaps she had the DNA of the real father, then it couldn’t be Dean.
Cheers, Jas
There are a lot of comments to read here and I want to read every one of them and will. But for now all I have time to do is give my 2 cents and I’m not even sure this is the best place for this, even though Lisa is the reason I write this.
I like Lisa and I applaud her for giving Dean a place to rest. Dean pictures her when he thinks of a normal life, but I’m still thinking he’s never REALLY thought about what his life would be like had he made his own choices following his mother’s death. We saw the life that really happened (for the most part). We saw the life he THINKS might have happened if she had lived and his father eventually died instead. But I sometimes wonder about the life he would have had after that fire that claimed his mother if his father had given him the same shelter Dean gave Sam; if he had been given the space to be a wondering child. Sam got that shelter from Dean and despite their obsessed father and no mother at all (Dean at least had some sense of normalcy that way), he went on to do traditional stuff like go to college and try to become a lawyer. If the roles had been reversed, my guess is Dean would have weighed his options and become the firefighter he mentioned wanting to be at the end of season 1. I think he would have still had that need to save people (that is one attribute that I think is as much his birthright as it was instilled in him) and this would have fulfilled that need, but he also would have had his own mind, something that’s really hard to imagine him having any time soon after all the years of following John and protecting Sam. Forget being a mechanic. Sure he could easily have been one, but the independent-minded Dean would have wanted to blaze his own trail and those firefighters that came to his home planted a seed.
I think he would have still needed a woman who needed him and so Cassie – as much as I liked her too – would never have worked out. Too hard to deal with. Lisa came with Ben and frankly, I think the first thought of most young men is fathering their own children, not getting into a relationship with someone who had one already. I suspect he would have been too focused on starting his own family to have ever come in contact with Lisa and so if Dean had had a chance to really consider what HE wanted way back when, Lisa wouldn’t have been in the picture in the first place.
In the last episode I saw with Garth, Sam tells Dean it’s time for him to focus on him and we see a confused-looking Dean who doesn’t seem to know what to think about not having Sam as his main goal in life. Gotta be hard! I mean the work he will need to do to backtrack and figure out where his will went astray and his father’s path became all he knew. He’s going to need hypnosis because that stuff has got to be deep-seated. But that is where my hope for him lies. He just needs to get back to his own roots, if you will. Remember those fleeting childhood dreams and go from there. Maybe then we’ll see him brighten and he can heal from losing Lisa and Ben and have a REAL future that gives him the best of everything – heroism, physical expression, all the food he can eat since he does exert a lot of energy, a woman maybe more like his girlfriend from What Is and What Should Never Be (she did remind me of Lisa so looks like he may have a type).
Lisa was what this Dean needed at the time, yes. But she was the familiar. It kept him sorta in the same place. Yeah he had a family now, but it was like he was living his father’s ideal life, not his. Lisa was a replacement for the relationship Dean had with his mother. When you think about the mirror scenes that happen so much in this show, I can’t help but think of how he hugged his mom when he was in heaven and then the way he hugged Lisa after Sam went to hell. Lisa gave Dean room to be what he was and do what he needed to do, but I didn’t see growth. I saw stagnation, but it wasn’t her fault. No way. He just needs to figure out his crap. I am guessing that if he had stayed with her AND figured out his crap, he would have continued being where he was out of loyalty. He has that in spades. But his best life? To me, it wasn’t with her. Sorry Lisa.
ive really enjoyed reading all your comments its great to listen to people that feel the same as me,i m so sick of people puttin lisa down she s great anyone who loves dean and who has done so much for him is great.I for one think dean really loves them both thats why he was so torn when sam came back on what to do,yes he s a hunter but that does nt mean he carnt have a relationship as well plenty of hunters have in the past. If nothing was to come of there time together why did they keep lisa and ben in all of season 6 doesnt make sense i m hoping they are going to come back at some point and that dean realises he can have both because lisa is strong enough to handle his lifestyle and understands him better than any woman ever has. With a new showrunner we dont know what to expect but im hoping he s going to really put supernatural back to being brilliant and to bring lisa back.