Oh my my.  Dean, Dean, Dean, WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST DO???  I have to admit, I’m utterly crushed right now.  There is a ton to absorb here, so let’s get started.  

Let’s Summarize  

I hope you don’t mind the longer recap here, but I’ve taken time to include several quotes that should be considered when speculating.  They’re so crucial and I think will have a huge impact on this season.  

It all starts with what we love best, the two brothers riding in the Impala.  Sam is aware that angels have fallen and they’re in for a big fight.  Dean points out to Sam that they have a bigger problem.  Something happened back at the church.  He tells Sam, “You’re dying Sam.”  

Now we’re at the hospital, and Dean gets the bad news from the doctor.  Sam’s organs are fried, his brain was oxygen starved, and his coma is just a mere way of putting off the inevitable.  Dean gets it.  “There’s no recovering.  There’s no bounce back, there’s nothing.”  He certain doesn’t take the comment that it’s in God’s hands very well.  “God has nothing to do with this equation at all.”   

A devastated Dean puts out the bat signal so to speak, praying to Castiel first.  When he gets no answer, he lets every angel know where he is and that he needs help (how did they end up in Randolph, NY?).  That invites both good and bad.  At first it’s bad, because the angel that gets to him first wants Dean to tell him where Castiel is or he’s dead.  Ezekiel arrives next to help Dean, but he’s clearly weakened by the fall.  He struggles in fighting the other angel, so Dean kills that angel and Ezekiel passes out.   

While Dean is struggling on his end with angels, Sam is struggling within his head to accept what’s happening to him.  Dean is telling him to fight, but he has no plan to get Sam out of this.  So Sam starts asking the right questions, figuring out that Dean represents the part of him that wants to fight.  “But if you don’t have any idea how I’m supposed to fight, am I supposed to be fighting at all?”

That’s when Bobby arrives to tell Sam he has a point.  He chastises Dean for all their “bass-ackwards crazy ways to beat death” like selling his soul.  Sam gets frustrated, so Bobby zaps Sam away from Dean and that gives them time to chat.  Bobby decides a walk will do them good, thus giving Sam time to process all this.  Sam tells Bobby he wants to fight, but it feels like, “like you’ve got nothing to swing at, like you’re punching at shadows?” Bobby says finishing the sentence.  He tells Sam how much good he’s done in his life.  Heck, he even saved the world!  He’s leaving the world a better place.  

Meanwhile, back at the hospital, Dean protects Sam and Ezekiel with angel warding symbols when angels arrive and fights off the angels while Ezekiel tries to help Sam.  Sam and Bobby in the meantime arrive at a cabin.  “Everything’s inside you need to help you on your way.  Sam’s glazed puppy dog eyes over struggling with the decision shows just how worn down he is and he doesn’t have much fight left.  “I’ll be waiting for you with a couple of cold ones,” Bobby promises, but then Dean shows up and stabs Bobby, sending him away.  

Sam is livid, and this becomes the very crucial scene where Sam decides to let go.  Dean says Bobby had to go.  “No, you have to go,” Sam answers.  “When are you going to realize it’s over.  There’s nothing left to fight for.”  Dean won’t accept this so Sam asks again for the plan.  Dean answers by punching Sam.  

Dean:  My plan is to fight.  My plan is to try.  My plan is to give a damn.  Are you telling me there’s nothing to fight for, there’s nothing to hope for?   
Sam:  No I’m telling you there is.  You might not like it, you might not accept it, but it’s in there, it’s in that house.  
Dean:  You know what’s in that house!  Now I can’t help you if you’re not willing to fight for yourself.
Sam:  I know, it’s okay.  It’s what I want.  

He gives Dean a pat on the face in goodbye and Dean disappears.  Sam goes inside to the cabin where Death is waiting for him.   

At the hospital, Dean gets beaten up real good, but eventually fights off the angels.  He goes back to Ezekiel, but Sam has already started to crash.  Ezekiel’s too weak, and Sam’s damage is too great.  He has no good options, so Dean wants to know the bad ones.  Ezekiel can fix Sam on the inside by possessing him.  Dean doesn’t like that idea at all and he knows Sam won’t either.  “There’s no way in Hell he’d agree to be possessed by anything.  He’d rather die.” Ezekiel accepts this and offers to leave them alone so Dean can say goodbye. 

Dean panics and needs to know how bad things are before he considers it.  Ezekiel shows Dean how close Sam is to moving on by letting him see Sam’s conversation with Death in the cabin.  Sam tells Death he’s ready to go with him, but Death has to promise that this is it for him.  “That this time, it will be final.  That if I’m dead, I stay dead.  Nobody can reverse it, nobody can deal it away, and nobody has to get hurt because of me.”  Death promises.    

So, in easily one of the most shocking scenes EVER in Supernatural, Dean arrives in the cabin to convince Sam to stay.  He tells the one thing Sam has been waiting to hear, he can fix this. “I made you a promise in that church, you and me, come whatever.  You got to let me in man, you’ve got to let me help.  There ain’t no me if there ain’t no you.”  “What do I do?”  Sam asks.  Dean asks if that’s a yes and Sam responds, “Yes.”  Dean touches Sam except it’s not Dean!  It’s Ezekiel!  Lights flash and suddenly Sam becomes possessed by Ezekiel.  

At the hospital Sam’s bed is now occupied by the guy who was Ezekiel’s vessel, who has no clue what just happened.  Dean and Ezekiel!Sam are walking in the courtyard, and Ezekiel (yes, Jared gets to play another role) tells Dean that things aren’t looking good.  There is much work to be done.  There’s also no reason for Sam to know he’s in there at all.  Dean thinks Sam will understand if he tells him, but Ezekiel thinks if Dean tells him he’s possessed, he could eject Ezekiel and die. So Dean tells Ezekiel to wipe Sam’s memory!  It’ll be their secret for now.  He’s hoping he’ll get to tell Sam when the time is right.

The final scene is the two brothers in the Impala.  Sam wakes up wondering what happened.  Dean tells him he’s been asleep for a day in the Impala, ever since they left the church.  Sam accepts this and tells Dean, “We have work to do.”  Final close up on a guilt ridden Dean.    

In between this gut wrenching story was Castiel’s story.  It doesn’t take long for him to figure out he’s human.  He almost gets hit by a car and gets his hand scraped up.  Pain.  The driver, despite Castiel’s crazy talk about losing his wings and not being able to fly, gives Castiel a lift into town and some money.  Cas runs into a young woman who’s been newly possessed by a fallen angel named Hael.  She pretends to be scared, and triggers Castiel’s need to help her.  Castiel calls Dean, finds out what’s happening with Sam, and he wants to go and help.  He tells Dean his grace was taken, and Dean tells him to stay away.  Angels are after him.  That’s when the other angel knocks Castiel out and kidnaps him. 

Hael wants Castiel’s vessel, because hers is already falling apart.  It can’t handle her.  She’s clearly angry that Castiel got them into this mess.  Castiel causes a car accident that greatly damages her vessel, and that’s when she goes off on him, telling him that he can’t help the angels.  He did this and he will be hunted.  Castiel gets mad and stabs her to death with the angel killing sword.  He ends his day at a laundromat with bloody clothes and after stripping down to his underwear (about time, huh?), decides that his change would be better spent on food and drink than his clean suit.  He steals some clothes and leaves the suit and trenchcoat behind, all while chugging down some water.  

Let’s Speculate

Oh my Chuck.  Did anyone see that coming?  Who right now is so utterly devastated for Sam?  I am so crushed!  He made his decision to move on, to finally have that peace after all the horrible, nightmarish things he’s been through, to finally move on after all those times of cheating death, and Dean snaps it away from him.  Sam looked so tired and worn, unable to fight anymore, but he was also scared over the idea this was it.  He was just waiting for Dean to show up and fix things and when he didn’t, Sam decided to move on.    

Considering Sam was willing to listen to Dean in the cabin and followed his play without too much hesitation, chances are he wasn’t totally ready to move on.  But Dean’s deception took that decision away from Sam.  Or did it?  Was Sam’s “Yes” really his way of saying that he was putting Dean in control, even under false pretenses?  Did Dean play on Sam’s trust of him?  I just can’t get past Dean telling Death “It’s not his time,” and Death answering “That’s for Sam to decide.”  Did Sam truly decide, especially when this happened after he had already chosen to move on?    

There is no way this won’t backfire for Dean, right?  Those memories will have to come back to Sam somehow, or there will be some sort of ramification.  After all, I do watch this show!  I speculate Ezekiel will weaken, the healing won’t go so well, or maybe Ezekiel can’t handle Sam or vice versa.  Sam was meant for Lucifer, just like Castiel was meant for Jimmy.  Angels just can’t possess whoever they want, can they?  As we saw with Hael, you just can’t take any vessel.  

How do you think Sam will react when he finds out?  Would Sam have done the same thing if the situation was reversed, or would he have let Dean die?  Dean was almost willing to let Sam go until he saw the conversation between Sam and Death.  That really scared him.  Will Sam take into account that his brother panicked and try to see it from his side?  

What about Dean’s decision to have Sam’s memory wiped and keeping everything a secret for now?  Did he do the right thing?  I was especially bothered by the final scene when he gave Sam credit for being capable of anything and proving him right.  Did he have to go that far?  Sam doesn't need encouragement right now.  He needs the truth!  Or does he? 

This was also the case of Dean Winchester messing with the natural order again.  He’s still calling that fighting rather than considering the ramifications of his choices.  Did you watch Death after Dean arrived?  It’s almost like Death knew that Dean would come along and muck things up again.  He let him do it too!  Do you think he’s teaching Dean another lesson here?  This does open up yet another reference to Dean’s God complex.  It ties into his earlier quote to the doctor, who says it's in God's hands.  “God has nothing to do with this equation at all.”  

Sam’s reaction over finding out he was in a coma was interesting too.  The whole idea of stopping the trials was so that he wouldn’t die.  Do you think that when (or possibly if) he finds out that he would have died either way that he’ll really get mad about the lost opportunity to complete the trials and close the Gates of Hell forever?  

What about Castiel’s story?  Were you find yourself caring about his story because you were too engaged in Sam and Dean’s drama?  Do you find it endearing that he wants to help the angels?  Did you like that there were angels like Ezekiel still out there that wanted to continue their work on Earth and believed in Castiel?  Or did you just get into the laundry scene?  That was pretty fun!  

Did you like the opening song?  I thought it was really weak, but I’m not a huge fan of George Thorogood and the Destroyers.  I don’t even like “Bad to the Bone,” let alone “Who Do You Love?”  But the new title sequence.  Burning wings??  Awesome!!!  

Okay, time to speculate.  Given the events that happened in this episode, the environment is ripe for some character bashing.  You may want to rip into Dean for his controversial choice to save Sam by calling him names, or you may want to rip into Sam for wanting to move on without Dean by calling him names.  Don’t.  NO character bashing.  Trying to share your thoughts in a constructive way.  Also, be respectful to other commenters and their opinions.  There is no right or wrong. 

Let's Speculate!

 

Comments  

pinky
# pinky 2013-10-09 02:38
I was really happy with the premiere. It was frustrating, but I loved it, especially with seeing Jared act as someone else other than Sam. I was screaming at my TV when Dean did what he did, because we all know that would blow up to their faces so bad, and it's going to hurt. I like the new character, Ezekiel, and I would have liked Hael (I think that's the spelling? eh, I don't know) because she was interesting. And she built the Grand Canyon.

Castiel made me think, though. He doesn't seem too crushed when he finds out he's human now. I wasn't expecting outright sobbing, but I didn't see too much disappointment with him. Maybe he's still not processing it, but I like to think that he kind of finds it liberating, especially after that pep talk with Hael about free will.

Anyway, loved the episode.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-10-09 04:21
Thanks Alice. Honestly it is late and I am on sensory overload and need to process. However my first impression was that this was great, the time flew and a lot got crammed into one episode. I really enjoyed it. I really didn't quite understand if the 'Dean' in the cabin with Sam and Death was just Ezekiel or Ezekiel channeling Dean or Dean channeling Ezekiel to gain access. I mean the angel had to get permission so was Dean involved in that at all except for the "OK do it" part? Still pondering that one. I really want the line - there is no me without you (not sure of the exact words)-to have been Dean's words, not a manipulation by Ezekiel!!

Need to rewatch and think on all this. :-)
Bethany_C
# Bethany_C 2013-10-09 06:11
I really don’t know how i feel ‘bout the whole ‘Sam being possessed by an angel-thing-y.’ I just feel like Sam would despise it-and yes I believe it will bring back some gord-awful memories of him bein’ with Lucifer(Maybe some memories of Hell too?)

That was a whopper of a Loop-hole- and I actually feel quite bad for Sam[I actually liken it to rape]- and honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if Sam resented Dean for this-Dean’s never done something(betra yal-wise) of this magnitude before- It just makes me wonder: Will the brother’s relationship survive this?
saumya
# saumya 2013-10-09 06:51
I am still confused.. can please somebody clear my confusion.. Is Sam still himself or is he an angel now.. and is his body now a host for two souls..!! I have to make this clear before I like this episode or really like this episode..!
Prix68
# Prix68 2013-10-09 06:53
I, personally don't like the idea of Sam being possessed by an angel and I think it's a mistake to bring Sam back from the dead again because of a deal Dean makes. Too much like the crossroads deal and we know how that worked out. Second, although it wasn't really Dean (or Bobby) talking to Sam in his coma, it is going to get muddled into Dean forcing Sam to live or making the decision for Sam. This will cause more Sam vs Dean controversy, which I hate.

Poor Cas. He seems ill equiped to be human and has a multitude of enemies after him. Dean is in a fragile state and has probably made a decision that will piss Sam off. Sam is possessed by an angel and doesn't know it. Crowley is in the trunk of the Impala. Welcome back Supernatual. Lol. Great special effects, though!
gata113
# gata113 2013-10-09 07:38
I really liked this premiere! It was fast-paced, it kept me on my toes, and i liked both Castiel's story and Dean and Sam's! I didn't want the episode to end!

About Sam and Dean's story: I have to say that I secretly hoped there would be some soul-bondig between Sam and Dean, but I also liked the way this played out. Sure, Sam is now possesed by an angel, and that's not really a nice thing, especially for poor Sam, but it's still Sam in there! He's just carrying a hidden angel with him. And sure, Dean lied to Sam, but it wasn't a petty lie, or something that made me go "What?" - Dean did it to save Sam. It was a desperate move, the only thing that was left for him to do. And Sam didn't want to die, after all he was frustrated when he realized that he stopped the trials and he was about to die anyway. And as you said, Alice, he was waiting for Dean to show up and fix things and only decided to move on when Dean didn't...
Now it makes sense that Dean has to continue lying to Sam, even if it's a hard thing to do, because whatever the reasons are, I don't think Sam would react preferably to the fact that he's posessed by something again... The whole possesion thing with Lucifer was, after all, an extremely traumatic experience for Sam. But if he would send Ezekiel away, he would die! So actually, the whole story makes sense, and is concise.
I really think that it was Dean who said "There ain't no me if there ain't no you" in the cabin. The way I see it, Dean said "yes" to Ezekiel, and Ezekiel sent him into Sam's head in order to convince Sam himself. And when Sam said "yes" to Dean, he in turn channelled Ezekiel, who then got into Sam.
Oh, and there is one very interesting aspect to the whole "consent by proxy" thing they got going here. After all, why should Dean be able to say "yes" in place of Sam? I think the only way this could work is because Dean and Sam are soulmates. And I really love that this particular fact is a big part of the story, and that we are reminded of it!
tigerlily2
# tigerlily2 2013-10-09 08:12
Lol, sometimes I think the writers read the wankiest debates in fandom and say, "Hey, let's take this thing they're fighting about and just crank it up to eleven!"

Oh, Dean, indeed. Talk about taking away your brother's agency and decisions. Yikes. Part of me wants to laugh, though, because it's so far beyond anything we've seen before. Sam is basically dead. The grief counselor has been in, the doc has delivered the bad news, Sam's even had his internal debate with himself and is literally facing Death and is ready to go. (And I'm still giggling at the mind-boggling perfection of the internal debate in which the part of Sam that wants to live appears as Dean PUNCHING Sam to try and convince him to live!)

And so, Dean leaves the hospital with what is, essentially a reanimated FrankenSam! With bonus mindwipe! omg, it's too rich.

Don't get the idea that I don't love all this. I do. It's just so Weekend at Bernie's! Of course, I realize that it's all going to be okay. Ezekiel's healing of Sam is apparently very efficient and fast, since Sam woke up quickly and seemed lucid and not in excruciating pain and organ failure (except maybe Ezekiel is able to mask the pain, whatever.) Sam is not going to be pissed, because how can you be mad about what you don't remember?

Oh, of course, I know Sam's going to find out. Ezekiel's not going to want to give Sam up (because who would?) And in the meantime, we have all that delicious Dean guilt to enjoy.

Entertaining!
Fazzie
# Fazzie 2013-10-09 08:15
Quote:
I really think that it was Dean who said "There ain't no me if there ain't no you" in the cabin. The way I see it, Dean said "yes" to Ezekiel, and Ezekiel sent him into Sam's head in order to convince Sam himself. And when Sam said "yes" to Dean, he in turn channelled Ezekiel, who then got into Sam.
Oh, and there is one very interesting aspect to the whole "consent by proxy" thing they got going here.
See I'm not too sure it was Dean saying that in the cabin and not Ezekiel just channeling Dean. It could be played out two ways as at that point you can also see it as Sam is Ezekiel's chance to have a vessel strong enough to heal himself in. As he said to Dean it is a bad choice but on the looks of it it was also all he had too seeing how he was weak considering Sam and Dean was the only human left in the hospital at that point.

Without Sam saying yes there wouldn't have been a way for Ezekiel to survive in either. - hence Ezekiel could have been the one saying that line.

You could say it was like Lucifer and Nick, he appeared as Nick's dead wife to get Nick to say yes and as Jessica to try and trick Sam so is it possible by channeling Dean and using Dean's knowledge he knew exactly what to say to Sam but doing so in the shape of Dean? I'm not saying it is right just that Dean saying yes gave Ezekiel permission to gleam enough to trick Sam into thinking he was Dean. I'm not saying Dean is right in the slightest to have let Zeke do it but still is it clean cut as argued?

Also was Death really Death or something else, even just another figment in Sam's head? I know if it was Death he could promise Sam that he'd stay dead but how could he promise that no-one would get hurt further by Sam's death. Death has never bothered to control anyone outside his own sphere so how exactly could he promise Sam that he would stop Dean going on a revenge spree or becoming so consumed by grief that he'd become careless. I know it is Death but wouldn't that be against his nature order? Though even if he did step in he has admitted that the Winchesters have a nasty habit of not abiding to it so how exactly would death promise to control Dean after Sam died?
ThisOldBag
# ThisOldBag 2013-10-09 08:20
I have to say I didn't see this one coming at all. I enjoyed the story very much, and I know this show can be what it says it is, or can be something more. So, since Cas has often been a bad judge of character, I wonder if Ezekiel is being honest.
Sam should still have a bunch of Godly power in him that went unused, and I did wonder if there were going to be angels who would want that. Ezekiel never lied to Sam but he may have fooled Dean. Will he actually let go of Sam or is there a fight coming? This could be Dean's time to make such a terrible mistake and to face those consequences. Or not. Show has often showed a horse to be a horse (especially last season with Sam not looking, mysterious guy at Amelia's' and no real answer to how Benny knew of the gate to purgatory.).
But they have also shown that a horse can be a zebra. We'll have to wait and see, and this is a no spoiler year for me so I won't be watching or reading any.
The episode was great and sets up a good story. Not a tear-jerker by any means, in fact much of it was quite funny, but I will watch it a few times.
Also, I've actually waited years for Sam to try to make that deal, to not be able to come back from dying, I'm glad he finally said it.
I actually stayed up to watch this (almost) live so got no sleep before my first meeting at 4 am. So worth it tho!
Ale
# Ale 2013-10-09 08:39
I agree, Sam didn't want to die. He wants to live. But he started to question what it would take to make him live - I could cost Dean's live (to make a deal), it might imply hurting other people. Because that were the examples he had - he came back and Dean went to Hell and the Apocalypse started; then he came back again and he was souless and killed people, and almost killed Dean and Bobby himself.

So, he started to convince himself that it was time for him to go, that he had done enough. That's when Bobby arrived. Because Bobby was another one that refused to go, refused to be dead in order to help his boys and that didn't go well. He hurt people (the maid, for one, and almost killed Sam). So Bobby had to convince himself that it was his time to go. That is why Sam chaneled Bobby - to convince himself that he had to acept Death, because it was the best for everyone. But still, he wanted to make sure that if he was gone, he would stay gone, because he couldn't risk the bad consequences of a come back, like the ones he experienced before.

When his head couldn't find a "clean" way to stay alive (his head "Dean" didn't know what to do), he tried to come to terms to him dying. But as soon as the real Dean appeared, he said 'yes' to him.

Of course, I think he didn't know what this meant (be possessed by an angel). It is horrible and he won't take it well. But he will have to understand. After all, I saw a change in Dean - he didn't simply make the decision for Sam, like when he did with the demon deal. He understood it was Sam's choice (although he was not prepared, himself, to let Sam go). But still, he, at least, made it possible for Sam to HAVE a choice.

It's never that clear, though. Supernatural never is. Welcome show!
st50
# st50 2013-10-09 08:46
Well well well... The one thing I was hoping they didn't do... Angel!Sam. And that's what they did. And ya know what? I enjoyed it. Yup. It was awesome. So what do I know? Nada.

Why did it work? Because (unlike the previous season) both the guys actions were entirely within character. With the physical and emotional pain Sam's been in for a year now, and having previously dealt with and semi-adjusted to the idea of Dean's death (by the start of season 8), I can totally believe that he would have accepted his own death - especially when Dean had no plan for him - with the provision that it be final. No more deals that backfire on Dean.
Whoops!

And Dean - everything he has done since he was 4 yrs old has been to protect Sam (while saving people, hunting things). Knowing there was something to save him, how could he possibly not take it. He's sold his own soul, for heavens sake. Knowing Sam wouldn't like it would only give Dean pause. Not stop him. Gotta love Dean's devotion.

That was 100% a desperate Dean move.

And it will backfire on him.


Miscellaneous thoughts:
- I adored the scene with Death. Validation and respect for Sam.
- Yes, leah, I believe that was Dean with them. A projection of Dean from Ezekiel into Sam's mind, so he (Zeke) was aware, and could jump the moment Sam agreed, but that time (unlike in the Impala and in the forest) it was all Dean. :)
-Sam agreed to do whatever Dean needed him to. Yes, he'll be pissed with the possession. (Rightfully) But he did agree to follow Dean's lead. As always. It might be iffy, and Dean knows it's not what Sam would ever have wanted for himself, but consent was given.
So no hate from me!
- Ezekiel needs to keep that vessel handy. I liked him, too.
-Cas plot looks interesting, but overshadowed by the Sam and Dean stuff in this ep.
-Bobby! I really enjoyed the way the brought him back without bringing him back! Hope he's still waiting with those cold ones!

This is going to get interesting. I'm excited for this season. So much better than last, imo.
Nate
# Nate 2013-10-09 09:03
It's so good to be back, and it's so good to have a information-pac ked Jeremy Carver episode to chew through for several days before everything fully digests. Holy crap, where to start?
My first thoughts...favo rite scene was between Sam and Death. Death's "well played" comment was one of a few teary-eyed moments for me. I laughed out loud when Ezekiel said he was here to help Dean, and collapsed. Dean's reaction was classic LOL Dean. I loved Sam's mind journey. That Sam would have "Deansam" kill Bobbysam," how well those conversations went in character, in Sam's head, was incredible. Sam had me thinking maybe he should die, he seemed to really want it! But that would be a short Season 9...But Dean is the master plan maker and gets into Sammy's head (because Dean is awesome!). I think Death saying "It's Sam's choice" after Dean arrived.....Dea th is probably thinking this scene will play out at least a few more times before either Winchester brother will ACTUALLY cross over. The brothers were not quite ready yet, maybe a few more times of this and eventually....( I think the last scene in the Series should be the boys eating Burgers & drinking beer with Death, Bobby, Ellen, Jo, John & Mary.....). My initial thoughts on Dean again lying to Sam was been there, done that (many times), but things were happening very fast, all last Season Sam was talking about living through the trials and seeing a life after. The Angles had just fallen, Ezekiel was there to help, a lot was happening very fast. I would have done the same thing for my siblings. What I would love to see is if/when Sam finds out, he agrees with what Dean did. THAT would be a shock....My favorite Cas scene was the laundry. How could it not. I like that Cas is not shown as a helpless human yet. He worked out how to get new cloths AND get his water, with the money he had (Congress take note?). S9 could be Misha's best work.
I love the trippy elements to this episode. I love to see the characters INSIDE Sam's head. I love the Ezekiel reveal in Sam's head. "King of Hell in my trunk" was classic. And I did live the "THEN" montage, I do like that song. The opening Title card is AMAZING. The stage was set for another great Season of Supernatural.
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-10-09 09:41
My first impression is that I really liked it. I'll have to give it a good re-watch as I was falling asleep on the couch! :o But, yeah, another deal, another secret. Oh, Dean, what have you done. He cannot let his brother go, and good for us too, otherwise that would be the end to our favourite show! :lol: But, yes, I agree this will come back to bite him in the ass (as fine as it is).

Loved Castiel's story. Finally, he can get rid of that bloody suit and trench! Nice to see him in some street clothes. I loved the scene in the Laundromat (and not just because we got to see some skin, although that did help :oops: ), but because now Castiel knows what it really is to be human and have human needs to stay alive. I'll be interesting to see where this all goes.

Looking forward to this season, I really think it's going to be a great one.
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-10-09 09:45
Nice review!

#15 st50, I agree with your comments. Plus, I was engrossed by the entire show and it just flew by. I was disappointed when it was over and can't wait for next week. Even when we think we know what is going to happen, they twist it and make it awesome!

I'm going to have to look at the title card again. I wasn't impressed the first time. I'll clean my glasses and start the show over. 8)

I'm SO happy SPN is back!
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-10-09 10:38
Thanks Alice for the review and in record time at that. WOW! Just WOW! I was engaged the entire time. I didn't like the THEN music, still think it should have been Back in Black (AC/DC). Loved the title card with the falling, burning angel wings. Great choice since that is going to be the theme of this season.

Dean, Dean, Dean. You are still playing the big brother protector and how could you not. He had no other choice and letting Sam die just is not in the cards. We cannot have that anyway. It would not be a show without Sam. "There is no me if there is no you", just tugs at the heart strings and so very true. This cannot go well with him lying to Sam but he really had no other choice at the time so "we'll figure it out" is the plan.

Sam, Sam, Sam. No you do not want to die! :sad: We need you, Dean needs you. Jared is just knocking it out of the ball park already with the dual role playing thing. He had Ezekiel movements and way of speaking down to perfection. What growth we have seen in him throughout the years.

And then there is Cas. It's about time he shed that awful trench coat, and what a way to do it. Whew!!! For his sake though, since he was no longer an angel and lost his grace and essence, maybe they could have let him have is Jimmy voice back, just saying.

Now for Ezekiel, I like him a lot but there is a part of me that just does not trust him. :-? Come on Dean, remember, you "don't trust angels". What if he doesn't want to get out of Sam when the time comes. Guess that will be a whole other can of worms to open later on.

Overall, this was the best premiere yet and I loved every minute of it. :lol: I've already watched it twice and am about to go for round three of many I'm sure. I really enjoyed interacting with the Jared and Clif last night on Twitter. Jared is such a tease when we all know that Jensen does not have a Twitter or Facebook or any other kind of media accounts. :D Cannot wait until next week already.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-10-09 10:43
Very good start to the season. Love the new title cards for S9. Glad they gave Castiel a meaningful story arc instead of just using him as the magic fix or for comic relief.

Dean tricking Sam into an angel-otomy is going to come back and bite them in the ass. Sam will forgive Dean for that (desperate times, desperate measures) but is going to have a hard time getting past having his memory wiped when he finds out. Remember how strongly Sam reacted to that when Dean had Castiel wipe Lisa and Ben's memories? Always great to see Bobby, and it was done in a way that is consistent with canon. Ezekiel looks like he'll be a recurring character this season and is a great addition to the cast.

As to whether Sam wanted to die, I don't think that was the case. He saw no other options and was at peace with his decision, which is different than wanting to die. Great to see Sam acknowledging to himself that yes, he's done a lot of bad, but has also done a hell of a lot of good too. And the big man, Death himself, coming to reap Sam, while also giving him his props, was a great touch.

I can't see Dean being able to hide this from Sam for long. They're going to be interacting with a lot of demons and angels and won't they be able to tell that Ezekiel is in Sam? I know angels can see the true face of demons, but what about angels or demons recognizing a person possessed by an angel? Gonna have to go back and review the canon/rules on that.
nightsky
# nightsky 2013-10-09 11:10
First of all, I can't tell you how much I LOVED this episode. Got up this morning and read all of Jared's live tweets and got excited all over again! Going to do a rewatch soon to catch everything!

Why did I love this episode so much? Because Angel!Sam is what I wanted to happen! For those of you that read my S9 predictions last week in "S9: Here We Go Again", I gave the reasons why I thought this was the only way they could go. I am SOOOO excited to see Jared play this part!! He already stunned us with his superb copy of Ezekiel. BTW, I think Jensen did an equally outstanding job of showing us Dean's conflict when he decided to keep this a secret from Sam to give Sam & Ezekiel both time to heal. He KNEW that would break all his promises to Sam about doing things "together" and cause a rift between them. Jensen's acting there showed us all that pain. He and Jared did such an outstanding job in that very short scene. Right now, without my rewatch, I think that scene stole the show.
I have no issue with Sam being Ezekiel's vessel. Sam's body was conditioned to be strong enough for Lucifer, making him probably the strongest angel vessel around. Ezekiel hijacking someone else's vessel? No problem. It's the one-in-a-millio n vessel. Of course Sam can withstand the power within.

I think they will explore Ezekiel!Sam for a long time, then go through the brotherly drama when Sam finds out the secret. That will be epic. I'm hoping he decides to co-exist with Ezekiel for a while so we get to see Angel!Sam with angel powers.

Wow, I have to settle down so I can decide what part of this show I am going to write about!
novi
# novi 2013-10-09 11:19
What a great start!
I wonder who's "going to like it here"? And where exactly? Inside Sam maybe? Is Ezekiel a good guy? (Pray yes) But like Trucklady I don't quite trust him. What SPNangel was ever worth of trust - Castiel being the exception of course! What if Ezekiel intends to manipulate Sam or affect him, tempting to use angelic powers? Or, Ezekiel may find Sam an ideal vessel for him and simply wouldn't go away when the time comes.
By the way, is it me, or the boys' performances are becoming better and better with every new season? ;-)
nightsky
# nightsky 2013-10-09 11:29
Quote:
I am still confused.. can please somebody clear my confusion.. Is Sam still himself or is he an angel now.. and is his body now a host for two souls..!! I have to make this clear before I like this episode or really like this episode..!
To help you understand... Sam is possessed by an angel (Ezekiel), but the angel is letting Sam be conscious and have control over his body. So Ezekiel is in Sam, healing him, but is not taking over his consciousness. This is consistent with demons "hiding" in people. No one knows they are possessed until the demon takes over (and eyes go black).

Sam still only has one soul inside of him - his own. Angels don't have souls (remember Castiel stating this to Crowley when Crowley approached him to make a deal).

Hope that helps.
eilf
# eilf 2013-10-09 12:17
Oh I loved this. They went through a checklist of all the things I said I didn't want to see and did all of them! But they did it deliberately. With purpose.

And it was funny too - witty funny, not slapstick funny. Sam is funny inside his head! Who knew :D Sam as an angel I REALLY didn't want to see, Sam being Tok'ra-ed by an angel is a different thing and could be really cool. Jared's angel / Tamoah Penikett impression is great so far - I can see why he is enjoying it...

Poor Dean, that was the wrong decision, once again not taking Sam's decision about Sam for an answer. It will come back to bite him and maybe this time he will learn how to let go. Sam will be pissed when he finds out but he was partly complicit in the decision and will likely be pretty forgiving about it. There is loads of room here for Dean angst too - for example an angel who knows what one of the brothers is thinking might be able to be a go-between for them? Jensen does Dean!angst really well so we have that to look forward to too.

I think that Death and Ezekiel/Dean were the only non-figments of Sam's imagination. Everything else was a pretty entertaining look at how Sam perceives the world!

Castiel's story was really well done too. I am liking the way they are dealing with Cas being human. It is very sad, but hopeful in a way - an angel that finally has to stop and smell the flowers because he can't zap eveywhere. It isn't even important that Cas learns what it is to be human, he is going to have to learn what it is to interact in real time with the world. Wonderful.

It didn't feel as much like each story was being interrupted by the other - maybe because it was being intercut in such small bits, you didn't have time to wonder what was going on 'meanwhile, back at the ranch'.

I love Ezekiel already! I am assuming we will get to see him back in his angel form before long.

Really enjoyed this, I hope they keep it up!
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2013-10-09 12:23
It was a really good premiere, far exceeded 8.01 (thank heavens) and it’s set up a lot of pretty intriguing storylines for the rest of the season.

I think Sam being possessed by an angel and/or Dean doing a deal were both discussed (and both dismissed!) as options because the general consensus was ‘They’d never go there’ on both counts. Well, go there they did!

It does indeed suck to be Sam. I’m on the opposite side and I think that Sam was okay with dying (not that he wanted to die). How logical, and how typical, of Sam that he wanted to ensure that if he was going to die, then he was going to stay dead. There’s a guy who has learned from the mistakes of the past! Sam has, after all, earned his peace (or at least that’s what he was arguing to himself). He knows that he had done wrong, but he also knows that he had also done a lot of right. Death would be almost liberating for Sam so why not go for it? Is wanting death and leaving your brother alone so that you can just be done, selfish? Most definitely, but what of it? So is wanting to take your brother from that because you can’t live without him. They're the brothers we signed up for. However, as with the church in 8.23, Sam listened to Dean, he gave up peace for Dean. (How many times is that now?)

I LUVED Death’s ‘Well played, my boy’. It was almost fatherly in its affection. You get the sense, with those words, that it would have been a nice (!) death for Sam, a nothing to be afraid of death.

Dean did what he had to do, as always. Might not be easy for him, but he had to do it. I just hope he’s prepared for the inevitable consequences of his actions (and we don’t get another goddamn Mentalists when the shit hits the fan). He does pose a good question. Where do angels who have been vammied away go when there is no heaven?

Dean did trust Ezekiel awful quickly. I wonder if it’s because Castiel gave him the OK or was that the desperation deciding.

Castiel was talking about free will and I know it was free will and all (Sam’s choice to stay) but is it free will if you’re duped into it, or is that sort of a technicality?

Sam has now hosted a demon, an angel and a fallen angel. He should possibly think about hiring his body out because it seems it is very much in demand!

I’m wondering why Dean automatically think that Sam wouldn’t agree to hosting an angel, even temporarily? Is it because of the lack of control he’s had of his own life (which Sam has always strived for) it brings, or the rather (exceptionally) negative consequences of the last time he housed an angel or the messing with the natural order (once again), something that he was loathe to do in season 8.

If Ezekiel is playing them I wonder if it’s Lucifer related. (Project for my TY’s, investigate any connection between Lucifer and Èzekiel). The angels have fallen, Castiel is human and it’s almost 2014 so maybe? Though probably not.

I can’t shake the feeling, especially with what’s being going on in the last couple of years, that Sam is just not meant for this world. If you consider the circumstances of his birth, his destiny and the fact that he’s always seems to be hanging onto life either physically, psychologically or spiritually then maybe he’s not. (Yeah, I’m getting that Tall Tales flashback as well!).

I agree that Castiel seems a little nonplussed about not being an angel any more. Though he has been living with and dealing with humans for years now so he’s well versed. I dare say he’ll find things more difficult when he’s gotten two days out of his underpants and realises he needs to steal another pair! (That would be one way for the angels to track Castiel, via laundry robberies!)
Darya1
# Darya1 2013-10-09 12:23
Too much to speculate, but good episode! Holy consent issues, Dean!!

Stuff That Gets Blanket Love: that scene with Sam and Bobby and Dean in the Impala, when Sam is all “I can’t hear myself think!” LOL, that was brain-frying; Dean being the part of Sam that wants to keep fighting; Sam’s repeated “Do you have a plan?” as if he’s just waiting for Dean to tell him he does; Dean’s “You’re telling me my brother’s life is in God’s hands?”; CASTIEL and everything about him in this episode ; Dean’s prayer; THE FIGHT SCENE; Sam choosing to give up and go into the light; Sam and Death and the validation, thank you, finally; DEAN WHAT DID YOU JUST DO; Ezekiel; Sezekiel (yes, it’s a word now); the stupid memory-wipe that will lead to drama.

So how come Ezekiel was the only one all hurt and wobbly after the Fall? That’s weird? And that dude in the car-park didn’t know him, though Castiel did, but how good are Cas’s memories? Naomi messed with him. Also, Cas hasn't actually seen Ezekiel yet, so this angel might *not* actually be him? “A brother injured in the Fall” somehow reminded me of the other Fall, and there was a mention of it in this episode too. (I hope he's actually a good angel, because those are rare)

Also: was Dean Dean when he talked Sam into not going with Death after all or was he Ezekiel? I want it to be Dean. I think it is, because come on, Ezekiel wouldn’t say “I didn’t bring doughnuts.” And Ezekiel doesn’t say stuff like “If there ain’t no me, there ain’t no you”, And Ezekiel DEFINITELY wouldn’t say anything about the church? RIGHT? So it’s Dean, it has to be because why would Ezekiel speak Dean-speak?

I was hoping and praying that there would be no angel!Sam but I kind of like this twist. Eep, secretly possessed Sam. But I do think Dean's "encouragement" lines were a bit troubling.

(Also, how awesome was the windshield that Hael went through?)
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2013-10-09 12:24
cont.

Re. Ezekiel, I kinda trust him because he’s cute but at the same time I doubt he’s wholly on the up and up. He is unfortunately as hard, if not harder, to understand than Benny. I thought JP playing him was really funny. It was a real ‘How the hell do I walk in this thing??’ sort of walk. Ditto with the arms. I’m also wondering how (if) he will interact with Castiel, or will Castiel even know that he has possessed Sam. Ditto with Crowley. Unless Dean buys Sam a pair of permanent earplugs then this secret is going to be harder and harder to keep.

I (unfortunately) think it was Ezekiel who spoke to Sam. He is the one who Sam has to say yes to, not Dean. (Unless Ezekiel possessed Dean in order to get Sam to say yes?)

Is Sam going to be mindwiped ever time Ezekiel makes an appearance (cos I understand he’ll be making a few of them)? That is dodgy, dodgy ground. Ezekiel would want to be careful, he might end up wiping Sam’s ABC’s etc and who would do the boring research then?? In all seriousness though, if Ezekiel is in Sam and has access to his memories then surely it’s a short step between mind wipe and memory manipulation (which we’ve seen the angels do).

Glorious questions!

Thanks for this, Alice.
kristin
# kristin 2013-10-09 12:29
Wow. Just. Wow. Sam's an angel but not dead. Cas is a human and not an angel. Dean's saying "yes" to an angel. This episode was mind-blowing and thought provoking. I just hope they can keep it at this level for the whole season.

Honestly, I wasn't really looking forward to the new Season outside of seeing the guys on screen. Season 8 didn't thrill me - I never really recovered from my displeasure over the show having Sam not look for Dean but never giving us a credible explanation (or the chemistry-free Amelia storyline). But man, was I wrong! Forget "refreshed," I feel like this is a total reboot of the series, and I love it!

There were so many moments to love. Dean praying for help. The futility of Sam's potential death articulated so clearly (a great lampshade moment). Dean desperation when he realizes there's no going back from death (Death!) for Sam. Dean!zekiel tricking Sam. Sam!zekiel talking to Dean. Cas the human - a giant baby, just like Dean always said. All amazing, amazing, amazing.

And so many unexpected moments. Dean tells Cas not to trust an angel, not to go with her, and Cas actually listens. Then Dean - DEAN! - trusts an angel. And Cas says "no" to being possessed, while Dean - DEAN!! - says "yes" (and so does Sam, of course). LOVE the dichotomy there. Cas doing the right thing and Dean not? Man, I think I'm going to like it this season.

As an aside, if Cas had gone off to the Grand Canyon with Hael instead of calling Dean and going to the Bunker, his character would never have recovered. It was a close call for awhile, I thought, so nice tension there. I wouldn't have wanted to see him let Dean down so spectacularly, and we've seen enough of Cas letting Dean down.

Sam/Dean/Bobby/Death/Dean!ziel in Sam's head - who was "real" and who was Sam's projecting of themselves? Parsing and dissecting that question should take weeks/months years! That's why I love Supernatural. I'm struggling the most with whether Dean was Dean@ziel or just Ezekiel playing at being Dean (and obviously that's the key question because of what he said to Sam). I'm going with Dean!ziel, with Dean feeding Ezekiel lines or being in control until Sam says "yes". Because that's what I *want* to believe. :-)

I loved Ezekiel - the actor, the portrayal, the lack of contractions, whether he's Sam or he's handsome big guy (why do ALL the actors on this show make Jensen Ackles look small?). I'm sure I'll be proven wrong (this is SPN, afterall) but Zeke sure seemed like a good angel, in a way that Hael never did. I hope he is - although I'm also sure that he's going to ask the boys for something they don't want to give in exchange for saving Sam. Something other than possessing Sam, I mean. ;-)

(tbc)
kristin
# kristin 2013-10-09 12:29
(con't from above)

The thing I keep thinking about is how this episode turned Dean's usual modus operandi on its head, but within a totally realistic and believable context. Usually Dean trusts his gut and does the "right" thing, no matter how awful or hard it is, and in the end going with his gut was the right choice. Here Dean's "gut" says, don't trust the angels, don't say yes, let Sam die, tell Sam when he's awake, don't erase his memory. But Dean doesn't follow his gut in any of these decisions. Why? Because he'd lose Sammy forever and of course that's the one thing Dean can't allow to happen

Sam can't trust his gut (see Ruby, Lilith, etc). Cas can't trust his gut either (God!Cas, etc.) They always have the best of intentions when they trust their own instincts. But the best of intentions never work out in SPN - you have to do the right thing. Dean, our barometer of right and wrong on this show, always seems to know what that right thing is and it's when the others don't trust Dean, don't confide in him, don't follow his instincts that things go awry.

Here Dean is "well and truly alone". He has to make a pretty snap decision about Sam living or dying. His gut says Sam wouldn't want to be possessed. He knows that Sam would rather die. Dean is willing to let that happen for about a minute until he realizes he won't be able to bring Sam back and that this would be final. So Dean reacts in fear and anger and goes against his gut and (arguably) the right choice, and tricks Sam into saying yes. He then compounds this betrayal by lying. He has good reasons - the best intentions, right? And we know how that worked out in the past.

Is Supernatural willing to say, after 8 years of proving Dean's gut right, that not going with his gut was the right choice? Or are we being set up for the reverse? I can't tell - and I think that's exactly what this series needed. The tension has to be in the Sam and Dean's relationship, but it has to feel legitimate. We're so used to the paradigm that Dean is right, Sam's instincts are wrong, Cas is a fuck-up but handy in/after a fight, and Bobby is the soothsayer. All of those are turned on their heads in the Season 9 opener - and I couldn't be happier.
ThisOldBag
# ThisOldBag 2013-10-09 12:38
On second watch I am even more suspicious of Ezekiel as even his brother didn't recognize him and he only reluctantly said his name. Is he even who he said he is? This could be fun!
E
# E 2013-10-09 12:59
Wow! I really, really liked that! What a wonderfully written and well balanced episode! We got a little Cas, a little Sam a little Dean, some Bobby and Death and new characters and a huge new crop of potential story lines.... and it all made sense! It was exciting and nicely paced too. The guest stars were excellent (biker dude, truck guy, doctor guy, grief lady and Hael) and the cinematography was phenomenal; there was that one crane shot of Bobby and Sam walking through the woods with yellow light streaming through the trees that was just breathtaking! I am very satisfied.

I know that Dean's decision to save Sam by whatever means harkens back to his decision in season 2, yet this does not feel like a retread or repeated storyline to me. It was clear that Dean's decision to ultimately help/save Sam weighed on him heavily, that he was considering his decisions from the past and how they played out and also what Sam might want and how he would feel about what Dean was doing; and then he went and did it any way, because that's Dean, and when it comes to Sam all rationale, common sense and lessons learned go out the window. It's one of my favorite Dean characteristics ; it's the thing that Death grudgingly respects about Dean, which is, none of the rules that govern Heaven, Hell and Earth apply when it comes to Sam. Death didn't look surprised at all by the turn of events at the cabin when Ezekiel possessed Sam, he seemed slightly bemused in fact. And as the all powerful Death, he most surely had to have known that it was an angel speaking with Sam at the cabin and not actually Dean, but unlike Tessa and other reapers we've seen, Death didn't fight the turn of events at all he just let Sam's soul slip out of his grasp without an argument. Interesting. I hope we see him again this season and get some more insight into what HE thinks about all this.

I think Sam will be angry to an extent when he finds out (you know how he hates not being in control over things that concern him) but since Dean didn't make a deal that jeopardizes his own life, I'm thinking that Sam will be pretty willing to let it go given time; unless of course something really awful comes out of this, like Ezekiel is lying and wants Sam as a vessel because he's so strong or has demon blood still, or has glowy arm powers, or being inside Sam makes him drunk with power or makes Sam an even bigger target for having a powerful angel inside him.... . I mean, they are Winchester's after all... there will have to be some sort of repercussions to this decision Dean made on Sam's behalf. I wonder if Cas will be able to tell that Sam's carrying an angel? He figured out that Hael was an angel pretty quickly and admitted he can still hear angel radio...

I think that the direction that the story is going in is VERY COOL though and provides a nice connection between what's going on with the brothers, Cas the angels and the demons. It also keeps the main story line personal to the brothers and secures their involvement in the plot. I am very satisfied. Now, if only all the other writers can up their game to keep this momentum going...... we shall see!
nightsky
# nightsky 2013-10-09 13:05
One quick aside: I had mixed feelings about the music in the opening montage. I don't like the song for itself. There are two of us that grew up in the hard rock era and neither of us even recognized the song! I found it distracting (as opposed to so many other songs that have added to the scene, like "Man in the Wilderness" in 8.01). Having said that, I was thrilled it was at least ROCK. So much of their budget has been diverted from music to VFX that I miss the rock background that was so much a part of the emotional grab of the early seasons.
digyd
# digyd 2013-10-09 13:15
I loved season 8. For me the reboot happened there and Jared said that as well in an interview I heard him do. But as much as I loved and adored 8, especially the premiere, this one was so freaking fantastic I don't even know if I have the words. I've watched it 3 times so far for all that quiet angst of Dean's knowing he's probably going to regret what he's doin; Seeing Sam be this angel now; I LOVED Cas and that decision in the laundromat; The Grand Canyon?! ha! Again! Oh but SHE created it? Well, ok, that's kinda cool. (Are they planning for this blaze of glory to happen in the Grand Canyon or what? Doesn't anyone wanna maybe hike the Appalachian trail or something?)

Anyway, I loved every piece of what we saw. And I was thrilled that those (what I assumed to be intentionally) misleading previews were actually variations of Sam talking to himself. And that these aspects of his personality would manifest as Dean and Bobby as opposed to what we saw when he was putting himself back together when Cas broke his wall - well, that was just sweet stuff. I'm currently of the thought that Ezekiel is the one who said, "If there ain't no you, there ain't no me" in order to get that yes, but that is part of why I suspect/trust him right now. I'm so scared he is playing them for some purpose and Lucifer and endverse came to my mind too. But I want to be wrong.

I don't even want to imagine what Sam will do when he finds out the truth - other than run away for a minute. I'm looking at conflicted Dean and I feel it - I understand why he's doing this. I understand why he knows he's asking for trouble. I wanna hug him for this decision! I can bet he's going to get in trouble, but I want it to work out anyway because I don't want Sam to be mad at him yet again. I guess this time he'd be able to say Dean disappointed him, but I hope that won't be the case.

I just want it to be next Tuesday already! I'm open to whatever. Just bring it!
kaj
# kaj 2013-10-09 13:46
Whew!!! What a nice kick off!

I haven't been around much during hellatus but now that the new episode is aired I'm ready to get sucked into the madness. :-)

I've been taking notes during my second watch. I did a first watch then did a second watch with the notes. So here's what my notes says:

Dean

First impression, Dean looks kinda uncomfortable sitting in a chapel, praying. He twists his fingers and his body language shows it all. Well played Jensen! Guess he never fails to deliver. It shows that Dean does not pray if it's not very important, for Sam. All of Dean's prayer are for Sam. Dean prayed for something else before like in Season 6 but it's also because the other character asked him to do it, to call for Castiel's help.

2. Dean even willing to forgive Cas's mistake for making the angels fall, for Sam. Something that Dean spent the better part of S7 very hard to do. But if it's Sam on the line, all forgiven as long as Cas can help Sam. (Love Dean's dedication in this. Just prove that he can't see anyone and anything past Sam. That he won't and incapable of putting anyone, anything in front of Sam)

When Cas doesn't answer, he risks his location to pray openly. He even says that he won't be asking if it's not important. It shows again that for Dean no one more important than Sam.

3. Dean is desperate to save Sam that he will do anything. That's why he needs to see how high the stake is within Sam's head before he decides to accept Zeke's offer to possess Sam. It's an act of a desperate man and I remember Dean did stupid things when he's desperate before. It's just like when it comes to Sam, he's blind to anything else.

4. Later I see Dean's struggle when Zeke offers to erase Sam's memory. You gotta see the way they zoom on Dean's face and we all know that Jensen is great at face expression. I bet he remembers what happened before in S6 when Sam's memory was blocked by Death (doesn't end well), Lisa and Ben's memory wipes too. Dean thinks it like violating but it has to be done even if he doesn't like it, even if he knows that Sam hates him for it later. He also remembers what happen with the whole Amy fiasco. Dean would rather to have Sam alive to be able to hate him than not at all.

5. Last scene when Dean compliments Sam that he’s capable of anything is just Dean’s way of saying that he’s proud of Sam. Also Dean doesn’t want Sam to ask too many question about his fast recovery and the fact that he doesn’t remember beyond the church scene and falling angels. Sam’s too smart for his own good. He even managed to scratch Death’s wall. Dean doesn’t want Sam to ponder or to suspect that anything is amiss with his seemingly fast recovery when Sam still remembers that he felt like Crap back at the church. Now, he just feels tired??? How come??
So, Dean throws the compliment under the illusion that Sam manages to heal by himself. That he’s strong enough to recover from the ordeal by his own strength.
kaj
# kaj 2013-10-09 13:50
Says my comment too long. So, I have to split it

SAM

1. Sam's reasoning is sound. We saw Sam split his personality before, so it's not surprising that he also compartmentaliz e parts of himself in his own mind. Sam visualize a part of him that still hopes, that still wanna fight as Dean because that's what Dean is to Sam. A driving force, a burning spirit that never give up. That's what Sam sees in Dean.
I also kind of get it that When Dean is gone (To purgatory or Hell) Sam's driving force is also gone. Sam always think of himself as a freak (tainted by Demon blood) but as long as Dean still believes in him, still trusts him, he will fight too.
Early S5 when Dean said he couldn't trust Sam again, Sam begged off to leave and he wasn't hunting. No Dean, no driving force, no hope no reason to keep fighting.
This episode somehow makes me understand Season 8 a little bit better. Just wish that I get to hear and see inside Sam’s head last year, but alas.

So, because pseudo Dean is actually Sam and pseudo Dean doesn't have any plan to fix him, means Sam doesn't have anyone to hold on to. Because Dean is not the real Dean. Dean is actually Sam himself and we all know that Sam doesn't think highly of himself.
But Sam doesn't wanna die. Pseudo Dean told him to keep fighting because Sam knows that's what Dean wants him to do. In the end he realizes that he's all by himself there. Even if he keeps fighting it will be an empty fight with no hope because pseudo Dean is actually himself. What Sam needs to do is to convince pesudo Dean to let go of fighting to convince part of hmself that wants to fight to back down. Because he realizes that Dean will not be there with a stupid plan to fix him because the real Dean is not really there.

2. I'm still not sure if Death is real or just Sam's projection of another part of himself.
In the cabin, when he sees Dean Sam says "Why are you even here?" Sam thinks that he has convince his pseudo Dean to back down but now that Dean is back he suspects that perhaps it's the real Dean somehow. Just like Dean to come at the last moment, gun blasting, telling Sam that he has a plan. Sam can sense that Dean is not his pseudo Dean, that this time it's real, his hope has arisen again, the driving force has reawaken.

Notice that Sam doesn't even ask what Dean plan is or what the plan is entails or if Dean is sure about his plan. Just hearing Dean says that he has a plan to fix him, begging him to trust him, to follow him, Sam's answer is only one, "What do I do?"
Big brother is here, the hope is back, the fighter is back, The Stone Number One is back. Whatever he says Sam will follow. Come whatever, Dean promise, so Sam follows. Sam says "Yes". There ain't no me if there ain't no you. It's good to be/feel needed again. Dean loves me, needs me, I can't leave Dean alone.

Cas

1. I admit I don't really have much note on Cas but what I do remember in S6 is Cas once tried to teach fish a poetry. To teach Angels about free will. Now, what if the fishes are forced to live out of water?
To live beyond their habitat? Like it or not the fishes have to learn poetry to survive. Like it or not, they have to like it living here on earth.

2. About Cas realizing that he’s human, we have to remember that Cas is still an angel. He isn’t capable to understand feeling because he has no soul. Although it’s negated by Anna’s storyline where she lived as a human girl, had learnt how to be human from birth. Cas just turns human recently. He’s like a baby that knows nothing about being a mortal. I don’t expect him to have a meltdown and have a deep self reflection or “angsting” so soon after he falls because I don’t think Cas knows what angst means. He still thinks and acts like an angel.
Cas is too stoic when he realizes that he’s human is very in character.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-10-09 13:57
i really enjoyed the episode and this time i don't fault dean for doing everything possible to keep his brother alive. he didn't make a demon deal, thankfully, he simply offered whichever angel helped him, his services. owing a debt is much more preferable than selling his soul so i'm ok with that part of it.

i think that sam was in conflict about death. personally i don't think sam wanted to die. i think what sam wanted was permanance when he does die. there was the part of him who sought to live, when given reason. his love for his brother has always been stronger than his love for himself. dean pleading with sam, telling him he meant what he said in that church, acknowledging that there was no him without him, that was enough reason for sam to choose life.it seemed to me he was just waiting for that save, that reason to be able to go on. i think dean gave sam exactly what he needed to keep fighting. i felt that sam seemed quite determined in the very beginning to get to work, before he found out he was in a coma, as if he believed his job wasn't done yet. bobby represented the part of him that felt he'd done enough. he was torn, but in the end, sam decided to live. it's complicated. who is in their right mind when facing the end? how can we ever know? i was confused a little at the end of the speech. when ezekiel touched dean's head it seemed that he can see inside it. so at the end, i felt it was truly dean in sam's head...like a hologram...then once sam said yes, ezekiel broke dean's connection.

i watched it twice last night and jc was very careful with the wording. ezekiel clearly told dean that sam was dying. that his injury from the fall wasn't enough to heal him, but that he could do it from the inside. being inside of sam would keep him alive while ezekiel had time to heal. once ezekiel was back to full angel power he would be able to heal sam and leave sam's body. so ezekiel in essence is a passenger in the sam mobile. but ezekiel also made it clear that sam can reject ezekiel at any time. that indicates to me that at full power or not, an angel cannot stay in a human vessel unless they allow it. every vessel seemingly said yes. but from what zeke said, if a body rejects a vessel it cannot stay. i think that's God's little protection clause for us mere humans. perhaps that's why the girl needed a new vessel, because the one she was in didn't want her in it anymore, thus rejecting her. she needed to find another vessel quickly, which is why she chose cas, when he revealed he was human. that was simply a lucky break on her part. otherwise angels would be running amok in people long before now. so ezekiel wipes sam's memory so he doesn't remember. seems to me the best way to go at the moment, as dean doesn't know which way sam would go once he found out and he's not willing to take the chance. i can't fault dean for that. after all i want my sammy alive.
CJ
# CJ 2013-10-09 13:59
Dean's decision makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Sam's death (if it happened now) would be in vain. He stopped the trials so he could live and fight alongside his brother. So to give that up now would just suck (for Dean and all of us really). For me the Winchesters' death should be meaningful and purposeful. So in a way I'm ok with what happened. I know Sam was tired and wanted peace but there was a part of him that wanted Dean to come up with a plan. So its 50/50 really. I actually admired Dean's devotion. I'm not saying what he did was right but just that he is most flawed when it comes to Sam. And its the trait I like most about Dean. On a separate note Jensen & Jared both rocked this episode.
digyd
# digyd 2013-10-09 14:00
One more thing that just popped in my head and made me sad. To me, it's pretty clear Sam wants peace and he'll take it in death if that what it takes. I just thought to myself that if Death does come calling again (and I'm thinking by end of season 10 here), Dean may think that whatever they do they must do together so he'll opt to go into Death with Sam if Sam ever makes a final decision that that is what he wants.

My thoughts, of course, which I don't want to see happen, but it just feels like the divide that is growing is Sam's need for peace turning into this acceptance of death for himself and how will Dean now follow him there too?

Yep, made myself sad. Gotta go snap outta it.
kaj
# kaj 2013-10-09 14:02
Third part...

Ezekiel
1. I’m worried that the title “I think I’m gonna like it here” also means inside Sam’s body. I’m afraid that Ezekiel will reluctant to leave Sam’s body after he learns of Sam’s strength. In 9x2 promo, Ezekiel is still inside Sam’s head, taking over his body once in a while.

2. Other vessels do not have the ability to eject an angel inside them even by refusing to be a host no more. Once they say yes, it’s done. Then, why Zeke says that he will be ejected from inside Sam when Sam regains awareness of Zeke and refuses him??
The only answer that I can think of is because Zeke asks Sam’s permission only by proxy (Dean). So, the deal between him and Sam is not as strong. Zeke projects Dean’s awareness inside Sam’s head to convince him because Sam will not say Yes to other than Dean. Only after Sam says Yes then Zeke takes over.
Or, because Zeke is too weak and Sam has a history of capable to overpower Lucifer in the past.
I personally like the first answer better because that means Dean really is inside Sam’s head.

3. Still wait and See on Ezekiel just like my take on Benny last season.

On other things, I think the opening song fits. “Who do you love” just screams of S8 don’t you think? I never know this song but from the lyric I get the feeling that “Who do you love” refers to the brothers. Who do they love the most?? Who do they choose always in the end?? They choose each other because they love each other the most.

This is kaj, signing out…. for now. :-D
Yirabah
# Yirabah 2013-10-09 14:07
First of all: Alice I am so glad that the side is back up because watching Supernatural without the WinchesterFamil yBusiness just wouldn't be right.

Now lets start at the beginning.

I absolutly adore the new title card. It us AWESOME. The red angel wings. It's implying that we will see a lot of angels this season and that it will involve a lot of fights and blood.

The opening song. I didn't like it at all. I couldn't tell you why but it just didn't conect with me like it did during all the other seasons. Neither did the opening montage. For me that one ranks last on my list of SPN opening montages. But maybe that is only because I watched at 4:15 am. I definatly have to do a rewatch here in a few minutes maybe my opinion will change after I see it once more.

I am not convinced that Ezekiel is all that good. Maybe he planned all along to use one of the Winchesters as a vessel to get hold of Cas.

I am also sure that Dean won't like it very much to not tell Sam that he is only alive because an angel possesed him. My guess is that he won't be able to keep that secret for long. The latest by episode 4 he will start preparing Sam for the truth.

And Cas in the laundry room was hilarious. All stripped down. At first I thought he would leave in his underwear eating some unhealthy food.
leah d
# leah d 2013-10-09 14:10
kristin #28/29 Loved your posts and I agree with most of your thoughts! Still mulling it all over, I love how there is so much to chew on. Tasty.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-10-09 14:12
as for ezekiel, as i'm not really that trusting when it comes to supernatural entities, so i'm going to take it as it goes for now. as of now, ezekiel seems to be on the up and up. i mean cas vouched for him. he genuinely seems to want to help dean because he needs dean and sam both. my guess is that tahmoh pinkett will be back as ezekiel. i don't think sam will be possessed for the entire season. i think he will heal. i think ezekiel will leave his body and i think ezekiel will want sam and dean's help in getting back to heaven. he'll need them to help him fight metatron. i'm not leaning towards sam's body rejecting zeke as i feel it was rejection of the vessel that caused the girl angel to start to rot, or whatever she was doing. i'm leaning towards, sam will find out about zeke and allow him to stay until he heals. if it goes that way, then zeke will have the gratitude of both winchesters and i think, as of now, his plan is to use the boys to help him get back to heaven.

i think jared did a wonderful job channeling zeke.i'm so happy for him, because he's so excited about getting to play sam this way. oh and the potential is amazing. i believe it's going to all play out in a very interesting way. i mean, it's not like sam will be zeke all the time. seems to me based on what we've seen, zeke kind of spills out, accidentally. i'm interested to see how. think of it.....

will we get more insight into what sam is thinking? i mean will zeke reveal sam's inner thoughts that sam wouldn't normally share?

will sam think he's going crazy? i mean i can only imagine that sam will be doing whatever...then zeke slips out, takes over and and then sam returns and can't remember what the hell happened. he may get all scared and think he's losing his mind.

or what if sam is trying to torture some demon or kill something evil and zeke takes over and prevents sam from doing his job..you know what i mean...cas said ezekiel is a good soldier, but he also seemed quite compassionate too. sam is already compassionate, what if he becomes moreso to the point where it becomes a danger to him and dean?

i just think there are so many possibilities and i'm looking forward to finding out. personally, i think scenario two is likely. sam starts to think he's going crazy. i think that's when dean confesses to sam what happened. jmo of course.

i have no doubt jared will rock it. i have no doubt dean will rock it. i have no doubt that this will be a temporary situation. i'm confident that we will see ezekiel in the form of talmoh pinkett again...i really do think the second half of the season will be about ezekiel calling in that favor and having dean help him get heaven back..

oh and kudos to jc for bringing death on as someone who admires sam enough to want to reap him himself. sam is literally the only character who's ever accepted death. he may not have handled it well at all, but he accepted it. i think death was carver's way of giving sam the props he's earned.
btw it seemed to me that death wasn't angry at all when dean showed up. when dean told death it wasn't sam's time, death simply stated it was up to sam. death didn't get all pissy with dean, so in all honesty, i don't believe it was sam's time. in the end, sam chose life, he chose to trust in his brother and be with him. sam might have been at peace with the thought of dying, but there was that part of him, that strong willed part of him, that fighting part of him that really wasn't ready to go. he just needed a reason and dean is and always seems to be reason enough. it also felt like dean made a promise to his brother and he was going to keep it. it seems to me that dean is ok with death in general. if they go down fighting, it's acceptable to him. i think dean saw it as sam giving up the fight, so he was going to fight for him. i'm not upset with dean for doing what he did. i thought selling his soul was worse. i'm sure at some point it'll bite him in the butt, and sam will get pissed off for about 5 minutes, but in the end, i think he did the right thing. i'm going to make a shirt, "i want my sammy so i support dean."..

did anyone else notice that sam's dr was the same guy dean went to in wiawsb when he needed info on the djinn...funny that this is the second kind head gamey eppy he's been in.

so excited to have the boys back...so happy....loving it.
leah d
# leah d 2013-10-09 14:41
#38 digyd- Yeah, I don't think that it will go down like that. If the brothers go together it will be fighting to the end. Not because Sam wants "peace". I truly believe Sam was so worn down and tired of it all that he was willing to give in but I also believe that Sam is a fighter and at his core there will always be a will to live. He just needed a reason to go on. He got it. I don't think he will spend the rest of the series longing for death. They are both weary. But they are the Winchesters, no quit in them as long as there is hope and each other to lean on when the load gets too heavy.
hlnkid
# hlnkid 2013-10-09 15:00
Okay...LOVE the new title card? Best EVER! Beautiful and spectacular all in one.

Intro song? I'm not a Thoroughgood fan myself, but I did completely enjoy the opening montage. I think it's one of my favorites in the series.

As for the episode. Wow. So much to take in. I thought them using Dean as the "i want to live" part of Sam and Bobby as the "it's time to call it a life" part of Sam was brilliant. Each fit their role perfectly.

This episode probably ranks up there with the most desperate Dean has ever been to not let Sam die. Short of selling his soul, he did something that he knows is wrong on so many levels...but he can't bear to lose his brother yet again. The story of these 2 brothers has to be one of the most tragic story in TV history. Just when you think they can't face another mind boggling hurdle...here comes another.

No idea how this is gonna end up. I'm sure not completely good, but Jared was right...it's def someplace they've never gone before.

Great to see Death again and Bobby (in a very unique and unexpected role). And completely enjoyed the actor who played Ezekiel. Another good casting there. Can't wait to see how this all plays out through the first half of the season.

Okay and the 'I've got the king of hell in my trunk' line? It about killed me.

Supernatural still has fresh life in those 9 year old legs! Amazing.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-10-09 15:02
Quote:
Quote:
I just hope Ezekiel isn't really Lucifer who somehow got out of the Cage when the angels fell. Please tell me I'm worrying about nothing :eek: :sad:
Sam already said yes to Lucifer. He wouldn't have to say it again.
That make you feel better?
The thing is, when Castiel was pulled out of Jimmy's body, Jimmy had to say yes again in order for Cas to repossess him, so having gotten rid of Lucifer, it is possible, in fact likely that Sam would have to permit Lucifer to retake the body. I know they have messed with canon before, but Carver did write The Rapture so he should be aware of that bit of canon.

As to the rest. I think what Dean did is pretty appalling and totally in character. He heard Sam say that if he died he wanted to stay dead, no deals. Now technically Sam wasn't dead, but the essence of what he was saying was that he didn't want to be pulled back to life. This is not AHBL where Dean could think that Sam wanted to come back and was fighting to come back. Dean knew Sam had accepted death and was ready to move on. So he overrode Sam's choices with his own. Which is very Dean, so I'm not surprised.

Helping Ezekiel to get Sam to say yes is the really disturbing issue here. Dean knew that Sam would straight up refuse to be possessed for any period of time. Someone asked how he could know that Sam would say no. I believe it is because Sam has been possessed twice already. Meg forced Sam's body to do horrible things. Lucifer forced Sam's body to do horrible things. Both of them took control of Sam and Sam desperately want to be in control of himself. Possession has only once been portrayed as a good thing and that was a serial killer who wanted to have his buddy back so they could continue to serial kill together, hardly a ringing endorsement. Raphael destroyed his vessel's mind. Jimmy said vesseling Cas was like riding a comet and he was adamant that he never wanted to do that again. Only the threat that his daughter would take his place got him to agree to be Cas's vessel again. So I think we have plenty of proof that being an angel's vessel is just as bad as being a demon's vessel, although in different ways. I don't agree that Sam is complicit in his possession. He didn't know he wasn't saying yes to Dean and that he was agreeing to possession. I'm sure it will be spun that way, but I'm not going to buy it personally. My guess is that Ezekiel was in contact with Dean and Dean was giving him the words to convince Sam. Ezekiel doesn't seem able to act human enough to pull it off on his own, but that may never be truly resolved. I guess this year we are going to see the flip side of last. Last year Sam did what they agreed and let Dean go, now we find out what happens when Dean doesn't stick to the agreement to let go.

I too don't trust Ezekiel. I don't think he is Lucifer, Cas did say the angels would feel it if Lucifer had broken out of the Cage and I did get the feeling that Archangels feel different from regular angels, so the angel who attacked Ezekiel should have sensed it if he were Lucifer. But maybe Lucy can fake it. It would be tragic if Ezekiel is Lucifer. All that work that Sam put into saying no. All the effort to cage Lucifer. All the pain he suffered to save the world would be for nothing. Sadly that is foreshadowed a bit by Sam's realization that he was dying and he could have died closing Hell instead of not.

As for Cas, for a guy who felt SO guilty about killing half the angels in heaven, he certainly isn't unwilling to kill more. Yes Hael was taunting him and threatening him with calling the other angels. I think she wanted him to kill her and put her out of her misery, but he still is awfully quick to kill the family he has harmed in so many ways.

I've heard versions of Who Do You Love that I like better, but it's been covered so many times that I have no idea which one is the one I like best. I did notice that during the previouslies we were shown both Mrs. Tran and Naomi. There may be slight chance that one or both could be back, because I'm not sure why they would be so important as to appear in the previouslies otherwise. Or maybe not.

I really did like this. It was far better than last year's opener. And ratings were great, the largest number since season 4. So Woo Hoo! moving to Tuesday didn't hurt us.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-10-09 15:36
Edit
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-10-09 16:12
LEAH We have different life experiences.
Different strokes and all that.
leah d
# leah d 2013-10-09 16:31
No percyowner, I understand we are all shaped by our personal experiences. I just can identify with Dean on that issues was all I was saying. I remember some of your past posts and know some of what you have been through. We all have our button pushing moments. I was actually coming back to delete my moment of oversharing. We see things differently, I respect that as always. I don't find it appalling that Deans sometimes make dubious decisions when it comes to his much loved brother. I find it human and love him for it.
kristin
# kristin 2013-10-09 16:51
Just out of curiosity, I googled the lyrics for "Who Do You Love". I'm not a huge fan of the song, but when I read the lyrics, they sure made sense for this episode and Season 8, given where Sam's head is. I thought others might find it interesting.

I walked forty-seven miles of barbed wire,
I got a cobra snake for a necktie
A brand new house on the road side,
And it's a-made out of rattlesnake hide
Got a band new chimney put on top,
And it's a-made out of human skull
Come on take a little walk with me baby,
And tell me who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?

Around the town I use a rattlesnake whip,
Take it easy baby don't you give me no lip
Who do you love?
Who do you love?

I've got a tombstone hand and a graveyard mind,
I'm just twenty-two and I don't mind dying
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?

Now Arlene took a-me by my hand,
She said "Lonesome George you don't understand,
Who do you love?"
The night were dark and the sky were blue,
Down the alleyway a house wagon flew
Hit a bump and somebody screamed,
You should've heard what I'd seen
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?

Yeah, I've got a tombstone hand in a graveyard mine,
Just twenty-two baby I don't mind dying
Snake skin shoes baby put them on your feet,
Got the goodtime music and the Bo Diddley beat
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Gwen
# Gwen 2013-10-09 18:49
Oh wow! That was fabulous. I absolutely loved every minute of it. Sam and Dean both broke my heart all the way through. Oh poor Dean. He was so desperate and so afraid. Rational thought goes out the window when Sam is hurt or in trouble and I love Dean desperately for that. It's one of the things I love best about him. I wanted to hug him all the way through. And Sam. My poor poor boy. His struggles over choosing to let go or to fight were fascinating and heartbreaking. Those teary puppy dog eyes just about slayed me. Loved the scenes between Sam and Death and Death's "well played". I'm confused over whether it was Dean or Ezekial tellling Sam the "there ain't no me if there ain't no you" line but I would dearly love it to have been Dean. (Although I'm leaning to it having been Ezekial.)

Before the season started the one thing I really, really did NOT want in S9 was to see Sam possessed. I especially did not want to see any angel possession of Sam. But now...how wrong I was. I cannot wait to find out what is going to happen with Sam. Having Ezekial possessing Sam might lead to some nice Sam insight.This angel possession has me utterly intrigued. And excited. And terrified. Maybe I am being overly suspicious but right now I don't trust Ezekial at all.

The whole episode was emotional, exciting, funny and wonderfully entertaining from start to finish. Loved it.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-10-09 19:53
Kristin #29- I said I loved your comments and I do , but I am a little uncomfortable with the idea that Dean is the barometer of right and wrong on the show. I think all the main characters have had their moments of right and wrong especially Dean. He has good instincts and has made many good tactical decisions. I also think Sam has good instincts and has made good tactical decisions. Without his research and input Dean would have been at a great disadvantage. I like and believe that they are all fallible. All of them have shown the capacity to make poor decisions.
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-10-09 21:27
Quote:
Just out of curiosity, I googled the lyrics for "Who Do You Love". I'm not a huge fan of the song, but when I read the lyrics, they sure made sense for this episode and Season 8, given where Sam's head is. I thought others might find it interesting.

I walked forty-seven miles of barbed wire,
I got a cobra snake for a necktie
A brand new house on the road side,
And it's a-made out of rattlesnake hide
Got a band new chimney put on top,
And it's a-made out of human skull
Come on take a little walk with me baby,
And tell me who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?

Around the town I use a rattlesnake whip,
Take it easy baby don't you give me no lip
Who do you love?
Who do you love?

I've got a tombstone hand and a graveyard mind,
I'm just twenty-two and I don't mind dying
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?

Now Arlene took a-me by my hand,
She said "Lonesome George you don't understand,
Who do you love?"
The night were dark and the sky were blue,
Down the alleyway a house wagon flew
Hit a bump and somebody screamed,
You should've heard what I'd seen
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Who do you love?

Yeah, I've got a tombstone hand in a graveyard mine,
Just twenty-two baby I don't mind dying
Snake skin shoes baby put them on your feet,
Got the goodtime music and the Bo Diddley beat
Who do you love?
Who do you love?
Actually no I don't see it but it is all about perceptions. Sam is 31 and he does not wear anything snake skinned. I thought it was a poor choice of an opening song but the beat fit all the recaps they wanted to include in the THEN. That is the only negative thing I found in the premiere though so it was a great one no matter on the song or its meaning or not meaning. JMO
kristin
# kristin 2013-10-09 21:41
Quote:

Actually no I don't see it but it is all about perceptions. Sam is 31 and he does not wear anything snake skinned. I thought it was a poor choice of an opening song but the beat fit all the recaps they wanted to include in the THEN. That is the only negative thing I found in the premiere though so it was a great one no matter on the song or its meaning or not meaning. JMO
Oh, I just meant that Sam has been through a lot - obviously not the details of the song but the idea that someone could be that beaten down by their life. Who wouldn't want to stop fighting if they'd walked miles of barbed wire? :-)
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-10-09 21:56
Quote:
Quote:

Actually no I don't see it but it is all about perceptions. Sam is 31 and he does not wear anything snake skinned. I thought it was a poor choice of an opening song but the beat fit all the recaps they wanted to include in the THEN. That is the only negative thing I found in the premiere though so it was a great one no matter on the song or its meaning or not meaning. JMO
Oh, I just meant that Sam has been through a lot - obviously not the details of the song but the idea that someone could be that beaten down by their life. Who wouldn't want to stop fighting if they'd walked miles of barbed wire? :-)
No worries. Sometimes I am just a little to literal for my own good. :lol:
kristin
# kristin 2013-10-09 22:09
Quote:
kirstin #29- I said I loved your comments and I do , but I am a little uncomfortable with the idea that Dean is the barometer of right and wrong on the show. I think all the main characters have had their moments of right and wrong especially Dean. He has good instincts and has made many good tactical decisions. I also think Sam has good instincts and has made good tactical decisions. Without his research and input Dean would have been at a great disadvantage. I like and believe that they are all fallible. All of them have shown the capacity to make poor decisions.
Hi Leah - I'm glad you liked my comment! And yeah, I know Dean isn't always right and that he makes bad choices. Also, I don't ever, ever think Sam is less that Dean for making poor choices or that Dean is ever better/more important than Sam. I hope that's not how it seemed in my post. Sam is integral to everything they do - he's often the one who figures out what's going on, solves the msytery, who says "maybe it's ___" and it's always what he says. I'm with Dean when he says "there ain't no me if there ain't no you." So my comment isn't meant to make Sam seem less essential than Dean; I'm sorry it came across like that.

I guess because I've just finished rewatching the previous 7 seasons I was struck by how often Dean is right about the "big" things - a few quick examples that struck me are trusting Ruby, not killing Lilith, Cas' post-apocalypse plans for Heaven, trusting Metatron, etc. There are others but that's what first comes to mind. And of course other characters have been right, and Dean has been wrong. Often the "season-arc" issue seems to stress that you do the right thing, even when it's the hardest thing, even when it's the last thing you want to do, because if you don't, it will all go to hell. And Dean is often the character that espouses that principle more than not, IMHO.

The premiere seemed like it was totally putting that construct on its head, which I absolutely loved. This is how you reinvent a show in it's 9th year. It brilliantly puts the boys at odds in a way that is beyond all previous lying/misleadin g/betrayals, and I can't wait to see how Sam reacts.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-10-09 22:20
Me too Kristin, me too! It is not going to be pretty I suspect. I am very happy with the way they kicked things off. Hope this good momentum continues! OK, I will allow them the one stinker they have every season :P

I guess the perception of some of the fandom that Dean is always right and Sam is always shown as wrong is something I have always been somewhat uncomfortable about. I do adore both of them (with a Dean lean) but I have always seen them both heroic and at the same time flawed. I am glad you see it similarly :-) .

PS- I get what you are saying about the song. I agree.
kaj
# kaj 2013-10-10 01:51
Quote:
Quote:

Actually no I don't see it but it is all about perceptions. Sam is 31 and he does not wear anything snake skinned. I thought it was a poor choice of an opening song but the beat fit all the recaps they wanted to include in the THEN. That is the only negative thing I found in the premiere though so it was a great one no matter on the song or its meaning or not meaning. JMO
Oh, I just meant that Sam has been through a lot - obviously not the details of the song but the idea that someone could be that beaten down by their life. Who wouldn't want to stop fighting if they'd walked miles of barbed wire? :-)
Sorry to jump in kristin but I can see the connection between the opening song and season 8 where in the end after all the shit that happened they still choose each other. "Who Do You Love?" For Sam and Dean the answer is always each other.
Sabath68
# Sabath68 2013-10-10 05:45
Ufff...what a start O_O
O mill , what hast thou ground?
Precious they wheat:
It is not oats thou hast ground,
But blood-red wheat.
Dean, Dean Dean what hast thy done?
Remember, what happened after Dean brought Sam back the first time from Death? Well it did not go so well. Dean selling his soul to a Demon, Sam left alone without self-esteem, and Dean saying „deal with it“, than landing in hell and opening the first seal.
Hmmm... resume, bad idea. And now? Caution, Dean!
Why so...
I know all are keen with the Angels, but I personally have a fierce respect towards Angels.
Angels are no humans, therefore their motivation are totally different than men. They are soldiers and messengers of the Lord, and their loyalty belongs first of all to God himself and than the issue of men comes in second place.
We know God isn't interfering in human issues because of mens unique gift the „Free Will“. If God would interfere with human issues he would contradict himself. So therefore we humans are left alone. And the Angels, like I said they are Gods facility managers, they interfere when the tough gets going. When an Angel would come to me, well I would be respectful but very, very careful.
Heaven has been shutdown, and not amused unemployed Angels are wondering on earth, full of rage seeking for revenge.
Now Castiel will learn by trial & error the true meaning of “Free choice”, no advantages of knowing how it will end, at last a vulnerable human, whom decisions will unveil the secret of life.

Sam on the brink of life, and the best idea Dean has, is to go on Angel-Talk-Radi o. Now don't get me wrong, you can see how heavily desperate Dean is. Than the calm softly orate Angel Ezekiel appears, and evokes by being „injured“ trust, than argues that he can only help Sam if he posses him.
It's just a thought, but didn't the serial killer Bundy get his prey by being injured and thereby gained sympathy?
I sincerely hope, that I'm absolutely wrong, and Ezekiel is the nice and trustworthy Angel buddy a human especially Sam can have, but the creepy smile Ezekiel had by changing into Sams body gave me the chills.
Gaining Sams health back by trusting an unknown Angel, just by an advice from Castiel who trusted Metatron, than tricking the consent „...he will say yes to you“, lying to Sam about the by effect, the possession and last but not least mind sweeping. Yea, that sounds like a good plan to start with.

There is hope, let go.
Sam literally burned out, lost in his beautiful mind, a maze of rationality, were Death is welcomed.
It will be final, I stay dead, no resurrection, no deal, dead for eternity...no one can get hurt, the final testimony from a tortured soul. Death feels honored to come for a soul like this “it's time Sam, shall we...“
What an oddness, Death a timeless entity predicts time.
The definite words echoing in Deans mind, well and truly over, his anchor to humanity capped. His holy grail, his purpose of life, found hope in death. How can the enduring flaws of life compete with sound and peaceful death? The essence that makes life enjoyable, the foundation of true love.
„It is not his time...I can fix it, trust me!“ Deans last call, Death the calm and cold participant in a room full of life and warmth, his time hasn't come, yet. “There ain't no me, if there ain't no you!” Sam tossed between ever lasting peace and the formidable challenge of life on a wheel in perpetual motion. You gave the best you can give, you only have one life to give... Intellect versus Sensibility. The ultimate battle, fought in apparent painful silence. Dean played all his cards, nothing sacred or profane, his stake, a promise “You and me, come whatever”.
“YES” an affirmative reply to the kingdom of the wise, family boundaries never die.
Has Dean won, it may seem, but war isn't over his battle has just begone. And Same back into the light of life is yet kept in darkness. His sensible life hold together by a deadly lie. Death has left the scene, his applause was deadened, now comes Destiny, a cruel competitor, her weapon of choice, the naked truth.
Dean, Dean what hast thy done?

Did I enjoy the premier, absolutely!
My speculation, it will end in total emotional chaos, Sam & Dean at their best fighting against lovely but fierce Angels, Deans solo fight against Destiny, Castiels struggle in finding the essence of life and Sam, he can only react to what he believes to know.
I suppose Jared was right when he mentioned that this season will be a hell lot of fun.
E
# E 2013-10-10 09:50
Quoting Gwen #50
"I'm confused over whether it was Dean or Ezekial tellling Sam the "there ain't no me if there ain't no you" line but I would dearly love it to have been Dean. (Although I'm leaning to it having been Ezekial.)"

Yeah, there's been a lot of speculation and discussion as to weather it was Dean or Ezekiel in Sam's coma; and I DO love the sentiment "there ain't no me if there ain't no you" its so very Dean like. Yet I agree with you that I think it was most likely all Ezekiel and here's why.... if Dean could have gone into Sam's coma state to try to get him to fight, I think he would have. Sam was clearly looking for a plan, he kept asking the 'Dean' side of himself, the fighting side what the plan was, but Sam himself didn't have a plan, and the next best thing was to make sure he could never be brought back again. Well, real Dean HAD a plan, flawed perhaps, but still a plan, and if he's learned anything, I think he's learned that in these big decision that he'd better hash things out with Sam. If he could have reached Sam to explain the situation he would have, but he couldn't so he used Ezekiel. If Dean could have gone into Sam's coma state to urge Sam to fight for his life, he would have done so and then he might not have even needed Ezekiel, so I think that it was all the angel because that was the only way to do it. That's what makes the most sense to me anyway, so that's what I am going with!
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-10-10 12:06
the way i see it, i believe with every fiber of my being that it was indeed dean. seems to me that dean was pretty much only concentrating on one thing, healing sam's actual wounds. i really at no time thought he even considered for a second.."what's going on in sam's head?". dean needed someone to heal his brother of wounds that were in fact killing him. perusing through sam's head wasn't even in the vicinity of the ballpark in what was going on with dean. fix sam. save him. that's it. it was irreparable physical damage. all dean seemed to be concerned with was somebody fixing that damage. that's it. when dean left the room to deal with the angels his last command to zeke was save him. what i'm trying to get as is that at no time did dean give me the impression that he could save sam, he relied totally on someone else to do it. when he walked in and sam was still dying dean went into severe panic mode. before he was left to make that final decision, he asked for proof from zeke, that's when zeke psychically connected the boys. so the way i saw it, dean was inside sam's head via zeke's angelic assistance. once dean convinced sam that he had a plan, to stay and fight, that there was no him without him, when dean got sam to say yes, ezekiel broke the psychic connection and then proceeded to enter into sam. i know it all happened quickly, but sam was dying and i felt it had to happen that way.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-10-10 12:09
as for speculation, i just read an article that informed me that, well let's just say after reading the article, i can safely conclude that sam won't be finding out about his "light passenger" til midseason break. i actually think i remember also reading a tweet by someone who had read s9's script and said it was quite the heart to heart. and i know it wasn't cf so i do believe it was regarding this season 9 eppy.
re: ezekiel, for now i'm going on the belief that he's on the up and up. way i see it, he didn't seek dean out, he answered his call for help, with a promise that dean would owe him big. he also seemed quite compassionate and cas seemed not worried at all, regarding zeke with a smile as he referred to him as a good soldier. i think carver, in his wording made it pretty clear that zeke cannot take over sam's body without consent. i can't see why zeke, an angel in an already healthy body would voluntarily want to leave his vessel, when he himself was hurt by the fall, and go into a dying vessel. there's no reason that makes sense to me for him to do that. sam is human. he's just like everyone else, i don't see him being some superhuman who can withstand zeke. zeke is a mere soldier, he's not lucifer. he can pick anyone. i'm not buying into he has alterior motives in that he wants to live in sam forever. as i said, carver worded it in such a way that that can't happen. dean would never let it happen either. it seems pointless really. it makes more sense that zeke is who he says he is. an angel who wants to go home. i can see his plan as using the winchesters to help him attain that goal. i don't see this as a bite the hand that feeds you situation. my feeling is that when zeke heals sam, and he did say it would take awhile as sam's insides were destroyed, he will leave sam. i think we'll be seeing zeke in the form of tahmoh pinkett again and i'm thinking the second half of the season will be zekes plan involving the winchesters, to fight metatron and get the angels back to the outfield. :lol:
i think this season will be a reverse of last season in this way...i think where sam felt all alone, burdened with guilt last season, now i think that will befall dean dean will feel like crap for lying to sam. he will feel like he's alone in that he can't share his secret/burden with anyone. i don't imagine he'll be ok with zeke popping out every so often either. it's gonna suck for dean, like when lucifer took over his brother or when he was souless. what i'm wondering is the how sammy finds out....will dean eventually crack under the burden and confess? will sam think he's going crazy? will zeke do a short term memory scrub every time he seeps out of sam? all these are questions i have and so cannot wait til be answered.....ho pe everyone enjoys this season as much as i know i will....
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-10-10 12:20
and i just wanted to note this one thing on dean's defense of his decision. i know that we all saw sam at peace with the concept of dying, even though i saw that dean being in his head in the first place told me sam wanted to live. at the end he was ready to die because he believed there was no way to save him, not until dean showed up and he gave him that hope. many still were upset because they believed sam was ready to go...and that when he woke up he'd remember that and thus dean took his right away. but sam wouldn't have remembered anything from his coma, even if zeke didn't erase his mind. when dean was in his coma, when he woke up he didn't remember a thing. he had no memory of tessa at all. so, sam wouldn't have remembered anything that would've went on in his head. at most he just wouldve remembered collapsing at the church. just felt like i had to defend dean on that one. i don't think sam will be mad that dean used an angel to save him. sam will be angry at dean for keeping it from him. ooh the drama that will unfold :D
kudos to our show for being the highest rated ep since 2010, weekend at bobby. s9 and our numbers go up what other show has ever done that? our boys rock :lol:
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-10-10 17:03
Minor quibble - rewatched the episode last night - when Dean pulled the fire alarm, did all of the hospital staff just leave the building, abandoning the patients in the process? Just seemed kind of odd.
E
# E 2013-10-10 17:47
Hi nappi815,
I can really see the point of your argument in favor of Dean being the primary person who was there with Sam in the coma state and what you say makes a lot of sense to me; Dean probably was more concerned with getting Sam healed than anything else at the time, but I still feel that most of that was probably not Dean. I think if Dean had been able to discuss the situation with Sam in his coma then he would have; he would have laid it all out on the line told him he was dying and what the plan that he was able to come up with in the hopes that he could convince Sam to allow Ezekiel to possess him. Dean can almost always talk Sam into anything he wants (see the trials), but I feel that Dean was able to watch Sam through Ezekiel but not communicate with him, hence Ezekiel's role in the possession trick.

I think it's pretty much semantics, and it will end up being one of those things that we never end up learning any more about...so, I guess we'll never really know if it was Ezekiel or Dean or a combination of them both. I AM pretty sure the both boys are going to end up paying dearly for what they've done. I really hope that we hear from Death again, I'd love his take on what went down.
E
# E 2013-10-10 17:49
Quoting njspnfan,
"Minor quibble - rewatched the episode last night - when Dean pulled the fire alarm, did all of the hospital staff just leave the building, abandoning the patients in the process? Just seemed kind of odd."

I'd like to thing that they were "mobilizing" their evacuation plan rather than fleeing in disorganized terror! :lol:
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-10-10 20:59
Hi everyone - this is the first time I've commented in quite awhile as it has been a crazy couple of months - but there's a new season so I'm carving out time for it.

My thoughts on the premiere - how the tables have turned since S8! I was deeply disturbed by Dean's decision to allow Sam to be possessed for all the reasons that have been mentioned - he was ready to go, until Dean intervened. However - Sam did, at the last minute, say "yes." He didn't know what he was saying "yes" to, true, but in that moment, he chose life, and he willingly put that life in Dean's hands. "You and me, come whatever," as Dean said, "and hell if this ain't whatever." I believe that Ezekiel provided the means for Dean to speak to Sam in that moment, to get inside his head. I don't believe Ezekiel would be able to mimic Dean so perfectly. No way. And as soon as Sam said yes, Ezekiel broke the link with Dean and possessed him.

The codependency runs deeps, and Carver took it to its logical (terrible) conclusion. It was heartrending back in S2 when Dean gave up his soul for Sam. It was heroic when Sam jumped in the Cage. But this? Regardless of the fact that Sam chose life at the last minute, that he at least had some measure of autonomy, he was indeed tricked. And this isn't something Dean did for Sam's benefit - this is all Dean and his inability to let his brother go. Dean tells Sam, "there ain't no me if there ain't no you," and what human could withstand that emotional plea? Dean doesn't intend to be manipulative, but that is the result. So Sam, feeding the codependency, bends to his brother's need. It's all love, don't get me wrong. But disturbing nonetheless.

But what was worse, is that Sam is possessed and doesn't know it. Dean is keeping this intimate detail from him, and the consequences could be disastrous. The most awful thing was at the end, when Dean said, "I knew you'd pull through," - just flat out lied. My heart was so heavy.

I think Sam will understand Dean's need to save him at all costs. I think Sam will recognize that if he really wanted to die, he wouldn't have been saved. But I think Sam will be justifiable betrayed when he finds out Dean neglected to tell him he had a guest inside his skin. Especially after everything Sam has been through.

While I enjoy Carver bringing out the moral shades of gray in the series - last season the issue was Sam not looking for Dean, this season the issue is Dean crossing a line to save Sam, I am hoping for one thing: first, you can't just bring the brothers to this terrible place, and then not deal with what brought them there. This is huge. This is serious. And it cannot be another one of those: Sam discovers secret and gets pissed, Dean confesses he did it because he can't live without Sam, Sam gives him a pitying look, and they shove everything under the rug to go hunt monsters. No. Carver made the bet, now he must show the cards. They MUST deal with this.

I agree that the title card was awesome, the acting was superb, it was GREAT to see Bobby, loved Ezekiel, hope Cas gets back together with the Winchesters soon, thought the way the story played out was excellent, taking me surprise within the first few minutes when we learned that Dean and Bobby were figments in Sam's mind. (Though i was saddened by how ruthless Dean is in Sam's eyes, as well as how easy he was to leave for the cabin).

Ah, my thoughts are starting to get jumbled. Can't wait for next week!
leah d
# leah d 2013-10-10 23:26
Hi Bamboo, good to see you back! I don't think i have ever disagreed with you and I am not saying I am right but I think Dean should get some credit for KNOWING this wasn't a great choice. He wrestled with this. He is always going to choose life for Sam if he has an option. Sam himself might have felt differently if he were not so beat down in body and mind. That is why I can't be mad at Dean. Should he have just walked away? Was Sam in any condition to be objective even if Dean had a head heart-to-heart? I didn't think Dean set out to trick him, that wasn't in his mind. But Sam was slipping away and he just reacted as he always does when Sam is in mortal danger. There was no malice of forethought. There were seconds left. How would the fandom have reacted if Dean just walked out of the hospital, leaving Sam to die? Do I think it was "right"? I honestly don't know. But neither one of these guys can let the other one die if they can stop it. That's the problem! We as regular people don't have much control over death. How many of us would let the person we love the most die if we could stop it and restore them to health? Especially if you only had moments to make that decision.
Prix68
# Prix68 2013-10-11 06:21
Bamboo24 - I agree with leah d here and would add that Dean didn't know Sam would have to be mind wiped until after he and Ezekiel were outside the hospital. I think Dean had originally planned to tell Sam right away. Sam may not have known the plan but he did agree to live when he found out there was a plan, no questions asked.
Sabath68
# Sabath68 2013-10-11 06:53
Quote:
I believe that Ezekiel provided the means for Dean to speak to Sam in that moment, to get inside his head. I don't believe Ezekiel would be able to mimic Dean so perfectly. No way. And as soon as Sam said yes, Ezekiel broke the link with Dean and possessed him.
“I believe that Ezekiel provided the means for Dean to speak to Sam in that moment, to get inside his head. I don't believe Ezekiel would be able to mimic Dean so perfectly. No way. And as soon as Sam said yes, Ezekiel broke the link with Dean and possessed him.”
Hello Bamboo, thank you for mentioning this condition.
I know some are going to dislike what I want to emphasize, but as I wrote Angels are not Humans, hence there intentions and motivations are driven by different rationals.
They are not the sweet and fluffy Hallmark greeting card entities. They are, plainly highly trained specialized warriors. Now we have a worse case scenario, errant specialized warriors without a base and cause. Total havoc. And not to forget these warriors were once the soldiers that haven’t failed the mission, they were not the “fallen” ones. They were the elite, the ones that were loyal to there chief in command and his believes. Therefore to be “fallen” and not knowing why must be mind blowing. Because to be “fallen” is the maximum punishment for an Angel.
Now comes Mr. Dean Winchester and calls for assistance. Naturally that's an open invitation. Open season for hunting the hunters. The ones that worked together with this weird thinking Angel Castiel, the Angel that caused this terrible condition. Time to get answers and revenge.

Now, to blame Dean not acting rational, is imo presumptuous. Why? Because who can blame somebody for loving too much? Love has absolutely nothing to do with reason. Dean is a highly trained and in terms of warfare analytic person, but emotional issues are not his specialties. His blind spot so to say, and if it comes to his brother & brother in arms he is totally blinded.
And the Angels know precisely Deans Achilles heel, his little brother Sam. They used it once and manipulated the brothers, so why not now? The brothers are lastly useful tools, not using them would be a waste of capacities. Especially if you can get the ultimate weapon that is on the market.
Sam Winchester, the Archangel Lucifers vessel! A highly trained premium class vessel filled with all information and that can bear an Angel without weakening. To get the right vessel, determines the pathway of victory or failure. But there is only one problem, you need the code, the consent of the vessel.
What do we know about Ezekiel? Absolutely nothing, only what Castiel said, he is a “good soldier” and the word of Ezekiel “he got hurt during the fall”. Not more or less.
Dean is now in a highly traumatic situation, he is not in a position to act rational, on the one side offensive Angels and on the other side his dying brother. Reacting is essential. A false maneuver, and all is over. And furthermore Dean the truly heavyhearted fighter will never accept Death as a solution, with one exception if he can safe the life of his bother. And Sam reacts the same, despite what the “fans” say about Sam, his reason to cooperate with Ruby was logical, get the power to kill Lilith, who held Deans Crossroad contract = no Lilith, no contract, Dean free ergo problem solved. When you are victorious, nobody is than interested how it worked out, only the result counts.
And suddenly the Angels appeared....
Ezekiel acting in a calm, supportive and sympathetically manner, gains Deans trust and gives Dean a putative opportunity, than convinces Dean that it would be for the best of Sam if he would posses and keep him in veil about there arrangement. Manipulation = to negotiate, control, or influence cleverly, skilfully, or deviously / to falsify for one's own advantage. Surly we know that Dean is going to have huge problem with this arrangement, easy to say it contradicts his principles. But not saving Sam would contradict his personality (and determent destiny). The future will show how he will “fix” it. Sam on the other hand, different story. Fact is, he is being “physically and psychologically ” abused without knowing by two dominate fractions, the Angel and his brother and non of them accepting Sams own will.
Now how Sam will react that is going to be interesting part. Because this is truly a total new aspect in the Winchester brotherly relationship. And imo a “I'm sorry” will not fix it, not this time.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-10-11 07:02
Quote:
How many of us would let the person we love the most die if we could stop it and restore them to health? Especially if you only had moments to make that decision.
Oh, yeah definitely! And I do give Dean credit - I think he had two terrible choices - do everything in his power to save Sam, or let Sam go. He's always gonna choose the former because its who he is. You make great points Leah, and I agree with you. I did have to watch the episode twice because the first time I was so shocked I couldn't process it - it was the second time where I picked up on more. It still left me feeling uncomfortable. Not the saving Sam part, not even how he did it, but the allowing possession and then keeping it from Sam. It should have been Sam's choice. It doesn't mean I'm mad at Dean. It just means I'm stirred up by the premiere. :)

Prix68 - I think in this Dean chose the easy way. The hard way would be convincing Sam of what needed to be done to save him, that Ezekiel wasn't going to hurt him (though we don't know that), that it was ok. "Sam may not have known the plan but he did agree to live when he found out there was a plan, no questions asked" - yes, and that is why I think he would have understood and given consent. After all, if he can eject Ezekiel at any time, Sam is in control. And that's what Dean was afraid of, so he took no chances.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-10-11 07:08
Quote:
Sam on the other hand, different story. Fact is, he is being “physically and psychologically” abused without knowing by two dominate fractions, the Angel and his brother and non of them accepting Sams own will.
Now how Sam will react that is going to be interesting part. Because this is truly a total new aspect in the Winchester brotherly relationship. And imo a “I'm sorry” will not fix it, not this time.
Yes - Dean gave a Supernatural being with an unknown agenda access to his brother's body and mind, without his brother's knowledge or consent. THAT is the issue. No getting around it. Dean knows this, and the guilt is gonna eat him up.
Sabath68
# Sabath68 2013-10-11 09:42
Quote:
Yes - Dean gave a Supernatural being with an unknown agenda access to his brother's body and mind, without his brother's knowledge or consent. THAT is the issue. No getting around it. Dean knows this, and the guilt is gonna eat him up.
BINGO!!! ;-) ... and Sam is not going to be amused.
I hope it doesn't sound too weird, but im totaly exited to find out how the boys are going to handle this "issue".
leah d
# leah d 2013-10-11 11:43
@70, 71, 72- Others may disagree with me but as I said Dean was under pressure, the machines were beeping, Sam was slipping away and he wasn't fighting it. Dean reacted emotionally and did not have time to weigh the pros and cons. He just went in (maybe????) and said what he said to get Sam's attention. He feels horrible and knows full well there will be hell to pay.

I think when he told Sam he could do anything at the end, I don't think he WAS lying. I truly think he believes that.
Prix68
# Prix68 2013-10-11 12:55
leah d - definitely agree

Bamboo24 - There really wasn't time for an explanation and Sam didn't really ask for one. Sam is also aware of how far Dean will go to save him so if Sam had reservations he could have said he needed to know the plan or just said no. I don't think any of this was easy for Dean.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-10-11 15:18
Quote:
leah d - definitely agree

Bamboo24 - There really wasn't time for an explanation and Sam didn't really ask for one. Sam is also aware of how far Dean will go to save him so if Sam had reservations he could have said he needed to know the plan or just said no. I don't think any of this was easy for Dean.
Why would Sam ask for a explanation of the plan? he trusted what was in front of him , his brother . He did not have time for a presentation of the plan and having Dean in front of him would not feel the need to ask for one . In that emotional filled scene with Dean saying those words and the look in his eyes how was Sam going to say no. I do not believe for a moment it was easy for Dean but Sam's yes was said to his brother he didnt know what came with it.
nuke333
# nuke333 2013-10-11 18:12
Quote:
Minor quibble - rewatched the episode last night - when Dean pulled the fire alarm, did all of the hospital staff just leave the building, abandoning the patients in the process? Just seemed kind of odd.

LOL, I wondered the same thing.
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-10-11 20:38
Things that make you go ummmm!!! I'm still wondering why/how they got from the church in Houston, Texas to a hospital in Randolph, New York?
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-10-12 19:36
Quote:
Things that make you go ummmm!!! I'm still wondering why/how they got from the church in Houston, Texas to a hospital in Randolph, New York?
Same way Dean made it from Missouri to 100 Mile Wilderness in Maine in 8.19 Taxi Driver in no time flat. The Impala does not need to follow the laws of physics. :-)
E
# E 2013-10-12 20:53
Truck lady and njspnfan!

Why did Dean take a dying Sam all the way to NY anyway?!?!?

I always thought any car those boys drive must have a flux capacitor in the trunk along with the weapons! Remember Sams faster than light trip from Louisiana to west Texas?

I'm from Maine originally and 2/3rds of the state doesn't even have interstate access. Driving "up nawth" is a time consuming activity!!!
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-10-13 10:13
Quote:
Truck lady and njspnfan!

Why did Dean take a dying Sam all the way to NY anyway?!?!?

I always thought any car those boys drive must have a flux capacitor in the trunk along with the weapons! Remember Sams faster than light trip from Louisiana to west Texas?

I'm from Maine originally and 2/3rds of the state doesn't even have interstate access. Driving "up nawth" is a time consuming activity!!!
Yes, I guess I get a little too detail-oriented at times and over think stuff that is really not a driving factor in the show to begin with. I did wonder right away, "why a hospital in New York?" instead of close by. I could buy one closer to the MOL bunker or even where they ended Season 8 that Sam just kept getting worse so Dean had to stop but New York? Well there I go again. I'll move on, it really is not that big a deal. I loved the episode and I am excited for the rest of this season so bring it. :-)