I want to know why John was not in the family photo. That's the photo from "Home" and he was in it right next to Mary. Why is he suddenly missing from the picture?

I loved it, was fighting back a tear, then the last 8 minutes were HOGWASH.

REALEASING THE TIME BEFORE TIME, THE 1ST ESSENCE, THE BEFORE ''GOD''

the DARKNESS............

"WOW!" pretty much covers it for me. I was not expecting anything like that.

I'm wondering if Lucifer will somehow be back in Season 11 because of this Darkness storyline...THAT would be AWESOME.

I will watch again and need to ponder a bit; some weak parts but outstanding acting all around, particularly Jared and Jensen. And it's nice to have evil Crowley back, though I think everyone will need to join forces next season to fight the new big bad. That is, if Crowley survives Castiel's assault which I guess depends on how contract negotiations go for the two of them

Since when is a witch powerful enough to take on an angel, or the King of Hell? Sorry, having trouble buying it, and not too thrilled to have Rowena back for S11.

The setup for Dean killing Death was telgraphed, at least for me. And, the setup for having to kill Sam was a little bit of a stretch; couldn't Death just touch Sam to kill him - why did he insist on having Dean doing it? To make sure Dean was sincere? Technically, Death could be killed so that's not an issue with canon. But I think he would see it coming, wouldn't he?

So instead of the black goo of Leviathans, we have a black cloud of Darkness? Now, when black smoke possesses a person, how are you going to know if it's a demon or a darkness? I don't think there's a hunter's test for that. Not sold on the whole "darkness" concept but, then again, not certain I'm coming back for Season 11. Too many weak and mediocre episodes to hold my attention for an entire season. Plus, we're in for an entire season with everyone blaming Sam for breaking the world... again.

two words....LOVED IT.

I had to laugh because what happened in this eppy was very close to my fan fiction theory that I posted on another thread as kind of a I solved the riddle of the series finale lighthearted post to lessen the panic. I mean I was a little off in the details...in my fan fic theory sam pulled out the samulet and not photos...and in my world, sam's speech was about how he only wanted to make dean proud of him and not i'll never see you as anything but good...and I did say the oh shit moment would have cas being evil by the spell , not a spell...and I don't think he's the next coming of Lucifer evil, though he is a bit of a monster at the moment....other than that, pretty close...one should not mock the fan fiction if only I had that kind of luck when playing lotto..

on a serious note....everyone did a fantastic job. jared was amazing, Jensen was terrific....Rowena was Rowena which I totally get a kick out of....mark and misha made me laugh...we needed that...

I loved that sam saved dean in typical sam fashion..i was like holy crap when dean reaped death....I fear for Crowley at the moment cuz cas is all beasty...and i'm totally intrigued as to what the darkness is...will it be in the form of one evil being or will it be a lot of different evil monsters? I don't know but can't wait to find out.

and I had to laugh in retrospect at Jensen's words of tptb digging a whole they can't get out of....I believe it was a play on words...as in baby got stuck in the hole and they couldn't get out of it and now the boys were engulfed in the darkness....yikes...

it was very reminiscent of s8's ending and I really loved s8's ending...

I totally loved this eppy and I totally loved this entire season....

so looking forward to s11

congrats to our show for officially becoming the longest running continuous sci fi show in American tv history....

our little show that could....did.....i'm proud to be a part of it.

Before I read a bunch of cackling I DID NOT WANT DEAN TO KILL SAM.

njspnfan wrote:

darkness? I don't think there's a Too many weak and mediocre episodes to hold my attention for an entire season. Plus, we're in for an entire season with everyone blaming Sam for breaking the world... again.

I don't think Sam is going to be blamed. Cas, Crowley and Rowena were officially the ones to cast the spell...Now that Dean is Dean, he knows that they all were trying to save him...I don't see it heading in that direction at all...I think they're just going to deal with what they have to deal with together and I don't think anyone is going to blame anyone...they all had their part to play in this little scenario...so they'll handle it like always do....together.

I loved the season final and thought it was a fitting end to the mark. The scene with the brothers was emotional enough without going over the top Jared was beautiful enough toughness and softness Perfect. I hope it was enough to bring the boys back together. Sam & party knew there would be cosequences - this BIG - No. But I feel it will tire in with a whole new direction for the show /something fresh. It will be different to see the boys & co. wandering around a black planet. I don't know how us humans will fair LOL but I am excited to see S11. Now I understand the colour of the new posters Red & Black.
I don't get the feeling Sam will get slammed for this, I believe there may be some bickering between the boys but I feel they are even now. Forgive & forget move on become brothers again and fight this new evil. How its gonna be fixed is anybodys guess. It looks like we will have a bad Crowely & Rowenna we will have Cas/ Dean/ Sam fighting the darkness WOW what a S11

I would like to say - THE ACTING WAS AMAZING Jensen & Jared deserve many accolades for their acting abilities. No wonder Jared is so tired and emotional after such a season. I hope not too many of you were disappointed I hope you all return in October and give S11 a try.

I don't write about the technical stuff I leave that up to the proffessionals. But as a SPN Fan I'm happy & satisfied

I'm utterly speechless and blown away. Emotionally wrecked too. Will have to muster some words for the review. Okay, more than a few. This was yet another reminder that Carver should be writing way more episodes.

Alice, was JC the writer of the new addition to the story of Cain and Abel.....

Robbie Thompson wrote FIRST BORN.

How was it possible that Dean "killed" Death. Did he really ? And was it because he wore the Mark of Cain??
I really liked this episode-the acting was terrific. I also am not clear how powerful a witch could be against the King of Hell and an Angel.
But it was great that Crowley and Castiel were part of the super finale.
I am a great fan of Supernatural and am looking forward to Season 11.

I really loved that the brothers ended up together at the end of the episode...not separated, like in some season enders. Yeah! Sam got to save Dean . Plus we really got to see Dean go off the rails from the MOC. J & J' s acting was stellar. You are awesome Jared...we love you...get some rest.

Also, now we have Rowena in the wind with the primer and the spellbook and god knows what else as well as Metatron with the demon's tablet. How will they be worked into the series next season ??

gonna write something tomorrow..kind of surprised with the general consensus of "wow." I watched this at one am so maybe i'm just tired...I just ..I don't know. I was underwhelmed. The brotherly talk was great but the second sam took out the pictures I knew the scythe was going in Death- not gonna lie and say I knew for sure if it would kill him or not....acting was great true...I guess in the end i'm just not super into the darkness yet. it has potential, especially if it goes in the direction where God is needed- and tbh either way seems like its escalated to the point that season 11 seems likely like it'll be the end. I don't know what I didn't like, I can't put my finger on it. With sleep and a rewatch i'll either enjoy it or figure out why I don't...regardless, anyone ready for fall yet?

Cody MB

BTW...so it the darkness going to be the equivalent of "The First"? hmmmm.....

Ever get that feeling that you used a certain cat .gif a few weeks premature?

With God and his Archangels being what fought back "The Darkness" in the first place, my only hope is that Sam and Dean have to bust both Michael and Lucifer out of the cage to help them win (mid-season finale), with Sam and Dean killing Michael and Lucifer (for good, no 'back to the cage' nonsense), in the season finale.

Then I'm guessing Jared will pull the plug and the show will end.

As for the rest of the episode? eh.

You know what? I was super worried about this finale. But at the end of it, the Winchesters were alive and together. And taking a page out of Charlie's book, with that, I'm sure there's nothing they can't get through. It wasn't perfect, but I loved the hell out of it. In the end they chose each other, and that's enough.

So this finale gets my vote.

Abit like Dr Who Sam and Dean are becoming the most dangerous creatures in the Universe. Killing Death whose next God himself ? because of the idea the their relationship is above and beyond anybody else .

So the Darkness that has been released into a unsuspecting world ? could be good or the Leviathans level of bad. in the telling next season

double post

This is not the LEVI'S bad nor releasing the 7 DEADLY SINS, this is the original DARKNESS.

Death spelled it out. The darkness that was FIRST, [and also in the various bibles] was released. Unless they

Hollywood Dumb Down, this is the biggest ORIGINAL bad.

A bit much methinks.

The Darkness that was first sounds like something out of the Neverending Story .

You know.. I sure hope they didn't leave the windows down in the Impala

Unfortunately for me I have very high expectations so the finale to me was "alright". Maybe its because I grew up on anime that has no budget constraints and no limits to effects etc. Maybe the writing wasn't for me.

However.. I will praise some parts in the story. The first being Death telling Dean the story of the mark. Interesting. Even more so when I heard the mark was the reason Lucifer went corrupt! 2nd was the last scene with the smoke (that's where the budget went!) which I'm sure reminded everyone of S2's ending. I grinned as the darkness engulfed the Impala but then had a thought.. "Does the darkness mess with Sam and Dean?" I'd feel it would be lame if they both got out unscathed by it. I want my Evil Sam! OH... Fanfiction idea.. The darkness strengthens the demon blood in Sam and re ignites the darkness Sam said he felt way back in S4 (I dunno when he said it actually). Then the only thing that can save him is the Mark of Abel; to seal forever the evil within Sam. Shame we saw no Abel though btw..

Disappointed Dean didn't share the mark with Sam. It was a potential chance for Evil Sam

My exact words after the credits appeared was "That's it?" I thought there would be one last scene where the darkness is shown engulfing Sam and Dean, or maybe Cas killing Crowley.

Unlike the other seasons this one has me mystified what will happen. Okay maybe one of the seasons then. S3'd ending left me wondering.

The only question that remains is who's season will S11's be? Sam? Dean? Both?

For those that didn't know Bobby Singer did say they sometimes chat about Adam in the writers room and say "Should we bust him out?" He also said to the audience maybe they should get Mark back for Lucifer. If you want to hear it its on Youtube; Jibcon 6.

NOLANOLA wrote:

This is not the LEVI'S bad or releasing the 7 DEADLY SINS, this is the original DARKNESS.

Death spelled it out. The darkness that was FIRST, [and also in the various bibles] was released. Unless they

Hollywood Dumb Down, this is the biggest ORIGINAL bad.

A bit much methinks.

Couldn't agree more. How does this show accurately portray an entity that could only be defeated by God and Archangels?

Unless they bring in Terrence Malick and try and pull off some Tree of Life type shit, this has "fail" written all over it.

One thing I loved about Kripke-era Supernatural, as unreal as it was, it felt so grounded and genuine. I believed, if this shit could happen, this is how it would happen.

Carver-era Supernatural has now become outlandish Sci-Fi nonsense. Might as well put a cape on Dean so his can turn back time by reversing the Earth's gravitational spin.


Way to kill Death, too. Not just the essence, but destroying the character. This was the one thing on this show that hadn't been fucked with. Death. Death show's up, shit is real. Gravitas beyond doubt. How does the one that will "reap God", become a mere plot device?

They could have at least used Death's own scythe from season 5, that Crowley said was "Death's own. Kills, golly, demons and angels and Reapers and, rumor has it, the very thing itself."

This show can choke on a fat one. I will watch the S11 premiere, and then I'm done. I'll wait for the Blu-Ray release from here on out.

At least with binge-watching I can get to the next episode before the disappointment of the previous sets in.

One thing I loved about Kripke-era Supernatural, as unreal as it was, it felt so grounded and genuine. I believed, if this shit could happen, this is how it would happen.

Carver-era Supernatural has now become outlandish Sci-Fi nonsense. Might as well put a cape on Dean so his can turn back time by reversing the Earth's gravitational spin.

Agreed Russ. What the hell? Supernatural works best when the hunting world is something the rest of us mere mortals don't know anything about. Well, it's pretty hard to hide "the darkness" from the rest of us. Outlandish Sci-Fi nonsense is right; it's Charmed level of campy fantasy that we are somehow supposed to take seriously. So, death shows up at the last minute to divulge all sorts of of crucial information, but its too late to do anything about it. So once again Sam and Dean look like morons for not being better informed. The whole thing seems incredibly stupid to me; there's no logic. And I don't like the moral to this story; Sam and Dean's co dependent and destructive relationship is more important to them than the world, than death?When season 9 started I thought Sam was the morally correct one; something things were not worth the risk to the world. Sometimes you had to sacrifice the thing you loved most for the greater good. I thought we were going to see Dean learn that this is true, even when it comes to Sam. But instead we got some f-ed up lesson taught to Sam that Dean's was way the right way; break the world, or become evil incarnate to save a brother that you wished was dead anyway. Sam and Dean ARE becoming the worst evil on this show. The world needs to be saved FROM them. That's not heroic and that's not what I want to watch. I don't want to watch a show about two brothers who put the world in danger because of their own self centered selfishness. I want to watch a world about two brothers who make the tough sacrifices FOR us. Who work in the world's corner fighting an evil that already exists, not let the rest of us fry for an evil that they themselves created.

E wrote:

Agreed Russ. What the hell? Supernatural works best when the hunting world is something the rest of us mere mortals don't know anything about. Well, it's pretty hard to hide "the darkness" from the rest of us. Outlandish Sci-Fi nonsense is right; it's Charmed level of campy fantasy that we are somehow supposed to take seriously. So, death shows up at the last minute to divulge all sorts of of crucial information, but its too late to do anything about it. So once again Sam and Dean look like morons for not being better informed. The whole thing seems incredibly stupid to me; there's no logic. And I don't like the moral to this story; Sam and Dean's co dependent and destructive relationship is more important to them than the world, than death?When season 9 started I thought Sam was the morally correct one; something things were not worth the risk to the world. Sometimes you had to sacrifice the thing you loved most for the greater good. I thought we were going to see Dean learn that this is true, even when it comes to Sam. But instead we got some f-ed up lesson taught to Sam that Dean's was way the right way; break the world, or become evil incarnate to save a brother that you wished was dead anyway. Sam and Dean ARE becoming the worst evil on this show. The world needs to be saved FROM them. That's not heroic and that's not what I want to watch. I don't want to watch a show about two brothers who put the world in danger because of their own self centered selfishness. I want to watch a world about two brothers who make the tough sacrifices FOR us. Who work in the world's corner fighting an evil that already exists, not let the rest of us fry for an evil that they themselves created.

The Good: the MOC is gone!

The Bad: who cares! the MOC IS GONE!!! Yippee, Hooray, Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, once again I had mixed feelings, but for me the good far outweighed the bad. The acting was fantastic, especially Jared's in his scene with Dean. I teared up at his speech, and thanks to sugarhi I thought he was about to pull out the Samulet. I loved how his pitch to Dean was not about how much Sam loved/needed him, but rather about Sam's undying faith in Dean's essential goodness. That, for me, is the essence of Sam- his selfless dying wish isn't for himself, but for Dean to one day regain himself. This Sam is also a return of the younger brother who will never stop looking up to/hoping to be worthy of his older brother, which is not the Sam we've been given for much of Carver's reign. I loved every minute of his scene with Dean. Jensen was also phenomenal in that scene. One last note about the acting. Given Jared's stellar performances the last bunch of episodes, when he's actually been given some meaty material to work with, I wonder why they couldn't have been utilizing his considerable talents the whole season. the whole middle of the season was extremely Jared-lite. Rant over.

Dean is back! After an interminable series of episodes featuring a mostly grim, humorless MOC Dean who seemed pretty detached from everyone, including Sam, I hope that we will see the old Dean back. God, I've missed him. For that reason alone I can't wait for next season. And with it, I assume we'll get a return of the old brotherly dynamic.

I loved the Cas/Crowley interactions, and once again I enjoyed Rowena. I have to watch the episode again, but upon first viewing it wasn't clear to me how Rowena suddenly acquired the power to subdue both Cas and Crowley. Was it a separate spell she did after the MOC spell, something she had seen in the BOTD? Based on the last bunch of episodes I think she has potential as a bad guy next season; not THE big bad, because there seem to be plenty of candidates for bad guys.

Which brings me to some of my problems with the episode. TPTB didn't necessarily violate any canon with the whole Darkness thing, but to wait until the last episode to introduce this huge concept of what is the ultimate ORIGINAL evil that the brothers will have to contend with, well, it seems like they pulled that one out of their butts at the last minute because they couldn't think of anything else. It also required an overly long tutorial from Death about it which slowed things down in the episode. How are they going to defeat an evil that required God and the archangels to defeat? I have to agree with Cody (I think) that it almost seems that they're potentially setting up next season as the last, in which we see the re-emergence of God and the archangels at some point to help save the world. If that is the case, it could be fantastic, or it could suck- depends on how/if they plan out the season and the episodes. I'm just glad the brothers will be back to fighting an external evil again, and not the "evil within." I also don't THINK there will be lots of blame thrown at Sam for breaking the world, since everyone played a role in it. Sure, he set the plan in motion, but they all jumped aboard. dean, too, deserves some blame for taking on the MOC in the first place.

Another thing I didn't like was the whole Oskar thing, which also came out of left field. None of that rang true for me, and I still don't think the Rowena as portrayed in EVERY OTHER EPISODE would give a crap about Oskar. But I guess that's a minor quibble.

Not sure yet what I think about Dean "killing" Death, but it seems silly that ANYONE with the scythe could kill Death. Or maybe it was the MOC that made that possible?

Final thoughts about next season. It will be a real challenge to depict "the Darkness" in a way does justice to the set up of the "ultimate evil." It's a pretty thin line between portraying a truly impressive villain and a hokey, ridiculous one (yes, leviathan, I mean you). And I don't know that these writers are up to the considerable challenge of doing justice to the Darkness concept. Moreover, it seems like there might be too many plots to juggle--the Darkness, Rowena, Metatron. The last time they had a multitude of plots was season 9, and THAT did not go well at all. These show runners and writers don't seem to have the knack for juggling multiple arcs as well as some MOTW episodes. But I guess I'll find out. Because I will be along for the ride. I was very down on the show for quite awhile, until the last 6 or so episodes. While those 6 weren't perfect, some were fantastic and the others had enough great aspects to have renewed my faith in the show. If this season had ended with the MOC still being a factor, I might be feeling differently. But on the assumption that next season will once again feature the brothers saving people and hunting things, I want to see what the Winchesters do next.

Incredibly disappointed. I don't like Carver's idea of the Winchesters at all. I don't like that they are portrayed as major screw-ups who will FU the world because they will always choose each other. I don't like the constant pounding over the head of the "family theme." I hated Crowley and Cas' worthless stories this season. I don't like the soapish angst. I don't like killing off incredibly good characters like Cain and Death, and keeping tiring ones like Metatron and Rowena. I didn't like that Rowena bested both Crowley and Cas.

Let me put aside my disappointment, though and say the acting by everyone was great. I liked the first half of Dean working the case and think that, at this stage of the game, Dean should always be Dean that doesn't play nice with others. I like vulnerable Sam and was happy with his portrayal all season.

Now that Rowena has the BotD (which is eternal) and the codex, I see her character as the one who will be portrayed as 'the darkness;' which is nothing more than chaos in the biblical sense -- so my speculation is that Rowena will be the character who portrays the primordial darkness that was unleashed.

Obviously, the premiere will have to have the brothers somehow surviving the crushing darkness so, once again, the big cliffhanger will be resolved in the first episode of S11 and whatever plans are made for a Winchester story will be shown the last two episodes of S11.

I, too, wished the show was grounded in some bit of reality that I could relate to these days, but those days are gone. I am not a fan of Carver's vision for the show or his idea of the Winchesters as FUs at all. It's been a good run, but I am out.

The last half of the show was nail-biting time. I actually believed that Dean would kill Sam a la the Cain and Able story or that Dean would become a reaper. Wrong again! I think that makes ten. Anyway, what impresses me was Dean's speech about how bad the Winchesters are for the world. There really is a ring of truth about that. The apocalypse was their fault as were the Leviathans and now the Darkness and Rowena have been released into the world. And of course the countless friends and people who have died just by their association with the boys. As much as I love, love the brothers, we have to acknowledge that they have also brought a lot of harm to the world along with saving it. I feel this premise should be part of the show from now on because it simply can't be denied anymore. It also adds another layer to the Sam and Dean saga.

I loved that they used the 200th episode version of Wayward Son at the beginning.

So, I've been trying to get my thoughts together on this. So many people have already voiced some of my feelings so I'll just stick to what I liked and didn't like. I will say that I was tense through out the whole thing and had no idea really what they were going to do except of course that death was going to show up.

Likes

The acting was brilliant all the way around. It really is the main thing that saved the episode. And I don't care if you're a Samgirl or Deangirl or a who cares person, Jared knocked that scene and speech out of the park. Jensen had the less forgiving role of having to react, and he did fantastic, but that whole scene could have been so incredibly cheesy,instead, Jared just made it heartbreaking. I was especially just cringing and covering my eyes when Dean started beating on Sam and then, something I never thought I'd see, Sam pleading for his brother to stop. It makes me tear up just thinking about it. It's like the lowest of the low. Not even Dean telling Sam that he should die got me as much as that. And Sam being stunned that Dean actually wanted him to say yes to dying....brilliant Just all the way around awesomeness in this scene.

Other things: I loved that Sam was not afraid of death and totally told him to shut up. Ha! "No one's asking you!" Dean is so reverent and twitchy around Death and Sam could give a rat's ass. I love it!. I liked Crowley this time. He was so much the Crowley that he is supposed to be and I loved how he didn't do anything but take nasty pleasure in making his Mother kill Oscar. No wooby faces or woe is me, just satisfaction. I liked Castiel reaching out and getting Rowena's thoughts from her. I also didn't mind Rowena, which is saying something. Loved Death, as always and I was really mostly enjoying the episode right up until the end. Oh, and the Conehead Allstate commercial made me laugh out loud.

So....dislikes:

This is hard. My only real hope for this episode was that Dean would finally, finally learn something and see how he'd been treating his brother and everyone around him. Admit that most of this situation was his fault and see that Sam has never once blamed him for it. And maybe next year, we'll see some of that. But I have my doubts. Two seasons and the mark was finally removed and we didn't get basically ANY reaction at all. Like, really....nothing. It reminded me of season 7 when Dean and Cas showed up at the mental institution to find Sam having his brain fried and we got absolutely nothing from Dean. He stood across the room and talked to Cas about Sam and did nothing to try and help or anything. Poor direction, poor storytelling, no payoff for two seasons of MOC crap. Ugh.

I'm also in the camp that Dean should have killed Sam. I know it was supposed to show us that the Winchesters will always defy their destiny and some bull like that, but this was Cain and Abel and it should have gone down that way. Killing Death was an utterly stupid move on Dean's part. Talk about damning the world. Does that mean that no one can die now? The dark smoke of evil is going rain down on the world, but no one can die? Plus, there's no God, no death, no nothing. The world they've created has no hope at all. The Winchesters are not hope. Not anymore. They've proven that now. Screw everyone else, we get to live another day in our co-dependent, utterly F'ed up relationship so ya'll can go jump in a lake.

And speaking of Evil Black Smoke, seriously? They've written themselves right into a corner, once again ala season 7. The evilest of evil evil cannot be portrayed on a TV show in 42 minutes a week, much less by these writers who can't keep a coherent storyline going for two people at a time. This "throw something at the wall and see what sticks" form of writing and show running is not working. I mean, Sam and Dean just got engulfed by the evil smoke of doom and they're what? Gonna come out of that and don Fed suits the next episode to work a case? I hope I'm wrong. I really want to be wrong. I'm interested to see how they're going to do this, which is what they were hoping for I guess, but I'm so afraid that they did this with no clue HOW they were going to do it next season. How about Dean to telling Sam that they could share the Mark. That would have caused some interesting chaos. Or how about Sam working from heaven after Dean kills him, to try and get back to earth and save Dean from his exile by death after the spell removed the mark instead? Great opportunity for past guest stars. No evil that's the most evil ever. Sigh.....

So, I'll give the episode A+++ for acting and a......C I guess for storyline. I will, however, find some black magic to become part of the Supernatural universe and slap Dean silly if he continues to blame Sam for this mess. He's a 36 year old man who needs to man up and take his medicine. Sam is a damn hero and a frickin' Saint for putting up with this crap for two seasons and hopefully the point of this is to have them working TOGETHER to stop evil and not working against each other.

Are reapers now INERT, because no more DEATH, no more Dying.

Does anyone think those numb nuts, thought about that....

Yessssssss indeed.

Need some time for focus on words and what to write. Have been too tired lately but found this. Many Supernatural cast members present.

Smiles are needed sometimes. The videos has special treat for special character fans, but the best are Jared, Jensen and Tahmoh in my opinion.



- Lilah

Delightful Lilah, thanks cher

Ok well ... that was the finale ... it was very well acted. And we never did get to know what Lost's smoke monster was for - though come to think of it it WAS connected to the character played by Mark Pellegrino - so Lucier may be connected somehow. In my head I have long had that entire scene with Dean sacrificing a kneeling Sam as really the only possible ending for all this. I also called it a week ago on here (with the added point that I haven't seen the past couple of episodes)
Post 1
I think that Death will agree to remove the mark from Dean if Dean will agree to reap Sam. Because Death is fed up with Dean interfering with the natural order to save Sam. After all in general it is Dean's big 'gotta save Sam' maneuvers that cause the most damage and ripples in the SPN universe.
The logic must be that the only way to ensure Dean will not try to undo it is if Dean is the one to make the final decision TO do it. The delight on Dean's face as he agrees in the preview is just like it was when he was taunting Sam back when he was a demon.
After all Death looked somewhat annoyed when Dean talked Sam into the start of this specific mess back at the start of season 9.
That would make the big relief moment the point at which he doesn't kill Sam. Maybe a reconcilliation? (I am not at all in the frame of mind where Dean gets instant reconcilliation or anything else after the misery that has been this season, but I get that the writers are somehow managing to write a different show to the one I am watching).
And the 'oh no' moment either Crowley interfering and killing someone, or Death taking someone (probably Sam) to punish Dean for not making good on the deal. (He then removes the mark ANYWAY because Dean is too much of a liability to be let continue on with that sort of power)

Post2
Dean is the one who has always had no problem doing whatever it takes in order to have Sam not be dead and if that results in the world getting broken (see the Apocalypse and the giving up on the tablets at the last possible moment for details) then that is just too bad. It always leads to more problems. (Sam's major transgression was NOT in a bid to revive Dean, that happened after Dean returned - none of those plans have ever worked out for Sam). That is why Sam is now doing what he sees is the only thing possible to do - whatever it takes.
They have said that Sam isn't going to stop in his effort to cure Dean and maybe the book IS too much. Maybe Death knows that. Though why the book should be more powerful than the three tablets or the MOC I don't know. So if Dean kills Sam then Sam can't use the book and Dean will have actually followed through on the decision he has made several times before - to kill Sam when Dean decides it is expedient - as Cain did with Abel - and while Dean isn't interfering Death can make good on his deal with Sam to allow him to dieand be safe from hurting (as he sees it) anyone else.
…
Post 3
... You can't fix that much damage with one episode. If they worked at it all next season they could not fix it. Which they won't even try to do, if the past 3 seasons progression is anything to go by. Sam dying is basically the only thing that could even begin to fix it. Sam not being in the finale would not even come close to being the worst damage the writers have done to the character this season.
See? I got a lot of it (I think a lot of us were on the same wavelength here though)
I figured the mark would be gone by the end of the episode and technically it was Crowley who found the last piece of the puzzle to finish the spell (which was what I meant). I did think that Death would be more in Sam's corner than he was but there wasn't really any way to predict that - I am THRILLED that Death's presence in Season 9 has been confirmed (a small ray of light!). Actually I would have been closer in my guesses but describing some of the things that happened seemed too much like a Samgirl complaining so I toned them down - clearly I shouldn't have worried about it. I forsee it being a cold cruel winter for a Samgirl next season though, I probably won't be back for 11, not with these writers. Most of the Supernatural experience has been a fun ride but the last season and a half have mostly been pure misery.
But the acting was excellent and the interaction between the brothers was heartbreaking in this episode. You guys are so good you know? Always remember that!
Jared and Jensen, ladies and gentlemen! Give them a round of applause, they earn it.

Was anyone else thinking "Smoke Monster" from Lost. He's unemployed right now.

Okay I got some sleep. I still believe the finale was underwhelming. I hate being negative about my favorite show, i REALLY DO. There are times I may critique it, make fun of certain things, whatever..but I don't like not enjoying something I love/loved(interesting sentence.) I gave the writers the benefit of the doubt, but NOPE, they DID kill Charlie just for shock value. Dean would have torn through the Stynes with or without her death, so yeah we lost a character for no reason.
The finale...I wanted more. A LOT more. I understand they needed Mr. Exposition err I mean Death to explain the Darkness (like he did the Levis), and I admit it was cool getting background to the MoC, but nothing else really happened. Couldn't they have cut the "Dean does a vamp case, gets another hunter killed" crap? Maybe put more plot into this episode that could serve as pay off for an entire season? I mean, isn't that generally the point of FINALES? To wrap up everything that has gone on in the season? It left us on a cliffhanger well but i felt like there was no payoff, just relief that we do not have to deal with the mark any longer. "The Flash" in its first outing crushed it, so I give no leeway that TPTB couldn't have given us an amazing finale with the 10 years of material they are working with!
And Death dying...why? I'm not even mad, I seriously am asking why. Dean summoned Death, it wasn't like he was forcing anything. He was being pretty damn helpful, basically willing to do whatever they wanted. I'm tired of hearing "there's no other way!" ..Bitch, Death just gave you multiple options!!!! Sam didn't need to be killed. Well, the Sam that was around in season 8 finale and season 9 anyway...But apparently this one would let the world burn even though its black and white regarding the MOC. It always bothered me, but I accepted the Winchesters being selfish in season 8 finale. They sacrificed themselves so many times, it was okay that they put themselves first for once- and even that was with Sam almost kicking and screaming..Yet you are telling me in two short seasons time, the roles have flipped and the ante upped, and Sam is now the one saying F it? We aren't talking about leaving Hell open like its always been, we are talking letting in the first evil (And thanks TPTB bc you stole from Buffy enough that The Darkness WILL be called the first evil to me until I see a difference.) This force went toe to toe with GOD. WITH ARCHANGELS. In what way is that even a Big Bad? That is more like CURTAIN CALL-EARTH GONE. Sam and Dean gonna be able to match the First? If so, shame on you show! I saw someone say letting Lucifer and Michael out of their cages..YES. With God in the mix also. I could see an amazing season 11 with that, but I don't have faith that it will be pulled off.

Not to harp on this too much but i cant help myself..Sam said yes to lucifer and jumped INTO HELL. FOREVER (at the time.) Dean hated it but honored it. That was to save the world. Yet when the boys have two ways to solve the MOC problem WITHOUT letting in the freaking First evil, they what? Say screw it? They could have isolated Dean, Sam would have to promise not to unspell the mark, or they had the option of giving the mark to someone else. Crowley would have been a good candidate to me...But even if they aren't great options, they ARE options! You know what shouldn't be an option? Being selfish and letting the world burn so Dean can be Dean again. Seriously, Seasons 1-7 versions of Sam and Dean would be sick to see themselves now...and maybe Carver was trying to make that point, maybe that was to back up the argument the brothers had about whether or not THEY are the evil- but no. I'm not accepting that storyline. Carver is definitely making that the case now, but it doesn't fit the Winchesters at all prior to this.

So yeah, this pissed me off. I'm not sure if i'm going to watch each week next season or binge watch it..and that has never been a thought of mine til now..I'm never gonna stop watching, but I may need to adjust. That said, the finale did cause me to write all of this so I guess that is saying something...there is so much potential for this show in ANY season and ANY direction they go, so it upsets me greatly when TPTB muck it up.

Like i said before, it looks like season 11 will be the end of Supernatural. It could be amazing, it could fail epically. There is potential but I don't have faith in those who have let me down..that said, my HOPE is that s11 is the penultimate season, and they have a season 12 where everything is simplified. All this over the top stuff will wrap itself up, and (idc how we get there) S12 is a homage to the early seasons where the brothers just save people, hunt things. Let SPN go out the same way it came in and leave (presumably) everyone happy. Sam and Dean acting like brothers again? (I don't count the 5 minutes a season we've been getting lately). Who doesn't want that?

God did not DIE, he is AWOL.
That was not the original Sythe, could be the Loop Hole we need.
Death is supposedly DEAD. Reapers are jobless.

SamAndDean10
Yeyyyy, I get an editing tutorial from Russ.

Just thinking; the Mark of Cain and First Blade worked together, with the First Blade, in effect, being powered by the Mark of Cain. Now that the Mark of Cain has been destroyed, will the First Blade play some sort of role in fixing this darkness thing in Season 11? Or, like the souls stuck in the veil and many, many other things in the Carver era, will it become a side note, completely forgotten?

I get that canon is important and should be carried through a show, that is obvious with the MOC - Cain did still have the mark - it still glowed and became active when he held the blade So does that mean we had 2 people with the MOC ???
When Cain gave Dean the mark He did say, If I give you this mark - THEIR COMES A GREAT RESPONSIBILTY. !! Dean didn't won't to know just wanted to kill Abadon

Remember Cain's story on the mark was different to Deaths Interpretation - so the MOC story is all over the place. Just glad its over Move on now to the darkness -

I apologize in advance if this doesn't make complete sense or i get off topic but i started writing a reply to a previous comment and the state of the show caused me to get angrier and angrier...plus i started a new job today and am beyond exhausted so bare with me lol...here i go


The Darkness has potential I suppose, but after letting me down with Charlie's death (I really had faith the writers knew what they were doing and would prove everyone wrong regarding her death just being for shock value, but nope it definitely was only for shock) I don't want to put my faith in them again. They Deus Ex Machina'd the finale with Death just like I said they would. Then they had the jumped shark go ahead and said shark jumped the whale. The Darkness going toe to toe with GOD and his Archangels causes all semblance of reality to go out the window. There is no feasible way for two humans to even make a dent against something so insanely powerful. Regardless of genre, this was too big. I don't see how they can even make this upcoming fight. I know you have to raise the stakes each season in most shows, but its too much. This show is about two brothers, yet this new force has rendered the brothers as insignificant. I know the writers will make something up to keep Sam and Dean relevant, but I feel certain it will be a ridiculous explanation. From a realistic standpoint, the way the arc is going, Sam and Dean caused the first evil to be released and that would be the end of their part of the story. It would evolve into a story about God, Archangels, all supernatural beings working to stop this crazy strong force..Whatever Carver thinks he is doing, its not smart and it won't work. He is going to be forced to neuter the Darkness for the Winchesters to have something to do, nevermind the fact they should be dead or infected after the final scene...My major gripe is that even when SPN has been at its worst, the core of the show wasn't changed. Levis were not good big bads, but we endured because this has always been about the brothers. The noble brothers who have faced everything thrown at them, even faced each other- yet there was always the knowledge that these two (no matter how many times they fell, or what mistakes they made) were the very essence of family, they represented humanity at its best, even when one or the other was at his worst. Their bond, their willingness to sacrifice for the greater good, everything has always been about these two superheroes. Take away the skills each possess, take away their knowledge of the occult, they were the embodiment of what mankind should strive to be..Now? Carver is chipping away at the very core of the show. Forget the fact that Sam and Dean would need to develop actual super powers and become actual superheroes to just last 30 seconds against this Darkness, I care more about the fact that Sam and Dean are being changed into completely different characters. This isn't an arc where there can be redemption, there isn't any rough patch going on, this is the characters we've come to love the last 10 years being bastardized by one man's perspective. Carver obviously doesn't understand family, of the bond the brother's have shared even at their lowest points. Instead, he is doing whatever it takes to make Sam and Dean different people. They are now arguing whether or not they are evil, which doesn't feel even remotely true until Carver finished the script and had them do something that doesn't fit at least 8 years of what we've seen from these characers...I know i'm rambling, I apologize, but truly I am angry. I don't care if there has been a run of a few good episodes or a few bad ones, I'm pissed that one man (Carver) is allowed and getting away with taking two characters I have loved for close to a decade, and turning them into completely different people. I don't want my favorite show to end where I can't even recognize it anymore, yet I feel that is the path we are on. I really hope things change, but right now I don't have much confidence because Carver's vision is simply NOT what SPN is. Not to me.


-Cody

Cody, what do you all, want Carver to do.....
[glad I read all that.]

Please do not say quit.

Nola, E, whoever replied but didn't leave signature on my last post,

First, I drank a bit before that post- hence the delay in my reply. I just remembered randomly that I wrote it..Upon rereading it, I gotta say I stand by what I said. I'm with E, anything where the brothers are the focus is what I want. Sam being killed in the way E suggested would have surprised me and I like the idea of rescuing him around mid season finale and even Rowena being the Big Bad- as long as it focused on Sam and Dean I would have been game for that scenario...

I won't say Carver needs to quit, and I don't hate him like it comes across in my message (drinks i tell ya.) I just wish he would look at seasons 1-5 (not exclusively) and realize they worked because of the characters. Obviously the story was great, but he shouldn't try to top the Apocalypse because it is almost impossible to pull off. I remember getting chills in season 4 when Castiel first tells Dean that if the seals break, Lucifer walks free. You can't top that arc (FREAKING LUCIFER!!), so in my humble opinion you adhere to KISS- keep it simple stupid. I recognize Carver has a tougher job with the series being in the 11th season, but I hate the entire feel of the Darkness and want the overall story of s11 to be more about the Winchesters than only how to defeat TD.

There are plenty of directions for the show to go from here. Even if the Darkness is a disaster, season 11 doesn't have to be. They can either go all out with God/Archangels, etc,..or (more likely) portray the Darkness as something that infects everybody it touches and not be an actual single entity. Since I don't see a cosmic fight happening, I imagine the Darkness infecting whoever/whatever it comes into contact with, and maybe giving them a power boost of sorts..Like those that are evil (ie Rowena) become even more ruthless, gain more power the darker they act (kinda like Hulk getting stronger the angrier he gets.) I can live with that scenario because it provides room for another arc for the brothers (hopefully finally acting like themselves) reconciling and getting things back on track, maybe even in a format closer to how the earlier seasons were. As long as the Darkness isn't a Being that actually needs to be fought, I'll be happy enough..Maybe they will do something like MOTW's are infected by TD, vampires are more powerful/(insert any monster or ghost) are harder to defeat on a regular basis, yet every time Sam and Dean destroy one, its akin to chipping away at TD..that is the only way I see TD somehow working and us still getting a story about Sam and Dean that isn't completely crazy. TD as a single entity doesn't work without the Winchesters absorbing powers equal to God and His Archangels (no.)...Lastly, i want Carver to make Sam and Dean be Sam and Dean again. As was stated, its been a year and a half since we've seen the real Dean, and three for Sam (with exceptions.) If I can recognize the brothers as the characters I've come to know, fighting the good fight, then I'm placated.

Believe me when I say I hope I'm in the minority. I want to be wrong regarding my feelings for the finale, TD, and Carver. I don't want people to dislike this show at all, I merely feel that the writers need to take a minute, sit back, and reevaluate where they've been and where they are headed. Binge-watch S1-5, accept that they won't top Swan Song, and do their best to make something that doesn't HAVE TO BE bigger, just something that reminds us of what made us fall in love with Supernatural from the beginning....That's my humble opinion

Cody, I always sign my posts and there is nothing wrong with bending your elbow.
I am Still learning to not tweet, text, post and call while sipping.