This episode ("Beyond the Mat"), written by Andrew Dabb and first time writer John Bring, begins with a wrestling match in Missouri.

The match ends up almost killing one of the opponents, Harley, who confronts the other wrestler after the match in the locker room. A veteran wrestler interrupts and the guy walks away. Later, alone, he ends up being killed by a rope.

In the bunker, Dean and Sam find out John’s favorite wrestler died. Dean thinks they should go to the funeral. Sam is hesitant because they still have work to do with Amara and finding how to help Castiel. Dean says they need to get out of the bunker to stretch their legs.

In the throne room, Casifer is forcing the demon crew to find another hand of god weapon. Crowley is playing Cinderella. He’s cleaning the floor with a toothbrush. Casifer asks Crowley if he knows anything. Crowley says no, he doesn’t and asks to return to his task. Lucifer tells Crowley to continue the task of cleaning but with his tongue.

Sam and Dean arrive at the funeral. Dean names off the wrestlers he knows. Dean fanboys over Gunnar Lawless and admits his first breaking and entering charge was because he wanted to see a pay per view match of Lawless’s. Sam sees his first crush, Rio, who was the manager of a few wrestlers. She now works behind the scenes.

The brothers then attend a wrestling match and before the match, a man comes in to see Gunnar and hands him a small package before he enters the ring. Gunnar comes out and ignores Dean as he passes. The boys watch and root for Gunnar, who falls out of the ring. He winks at Dean and Sam before getting back up to enter the ring. Dean gets into the match and cheers rather excitedly when Gunnar wins. After the match, though, the guy from earlier is killed.

Dean and Sam pursue the murder as a case. Dean is not sure about it being a case. He goes back inside and while no one is around, plays pretend in the ring. Rio comes in and finds him. Rio says maybe they are cursed. Dean asks for more information on the show. She tells him to check the nearest bar.

Back in the throne room, Crowley is being rescued by one of the minions.

Dean finds the wrestlers at a bar. He talks to Gunnar so he can find out more information. Gunnar describes the rough life of the wrestler. He tells Dean you got to keep on grinding, no matter what stone. Sam calls Dean and tells him that every tour stop ended with a murder and a symbol/mark. The symbol is ancient Sumerian.

Gunnar gets into it with Harley. Dean and Gunnar bond over some drinks. Back in the throne room, Crowley escapes with the minion after taking out two demons. He announces, when she asks him how he did that, “I’m Crowley.”

Sam comes back to find Dean passed out at the bar, hungover after buying all the wrestlers drinks with holy water. Dean and Sam go to Harley’s room, since they couldn’t vet him with the holy water. They find his hotel room destroyed.

Crowley emerges in his trademark black trench and he and the minion go to get his “ace up the sleeve.”

Sam and Dean find video of Harley being abducted by Gunnar. Gunnar has Harley tied up. A red eyed Demon, who had given Gunnar what looked to be drugs, emerges from the shadows. The demon tries to bargain with Harley for his soul and service. Gunnar seems to be working for the demon. Harley refuses because if there’s a hell, then there’s a heaven, and he won’t give up that for a belt he can win on his own. By the way, this was a particular good scene. The demon injures Harley and the demon orders Gunnar to kill Harley.

Crowley and his minion get to Crowley’s personal locker filled with mementos no one knows about. Crowley has the rod of Aaron, which is a hand of god weapon. Casifer shows up.

Sam and Dean show up at the warehouse to find Gunnar had killed Harley. They are thrown back by the demon.

Casifer tells Crowley that he invented the double cross. Casifer mocks Crowley, saying all the demons hate him. He calls Crowley Dean Winchester’s Number One Fan.

Dean and Gunnar go at it.

Casifer opens the box with the rod of Aaron and finds nothing. Of course, Crowley has the rod and absorbs its powers. He then has the power of a god and throws Lucifer into a wall, killing the minion in the process.

Gunnar ties Dean up. He tells Dean he sold his soul to get the glory of his wrestling career back.

Back in the locker room, Lucifer comes after Crowley, who spent the power of the rod on the one push against Lucifer.

The demon has Sam hostage and tells him that Crowley is Lucifer’s bitch before Dean comes into rescue him and is knocked back. Gunnar kills the demon. Sounds of approaching hellhounds signal that Gunnar’s time is up. Dean offers him a gun but Gunnar refuses, saying he’s not a good man. He tells them to go as he turns to meet his fate.

Back at the bunker, Dean laments Lawless. Sam and Dean vow to save Castiel and keep fighting.

Thoughts, Feelings, Speculations

1.       Why do you think the Hand of God can only be used once?

2.       What other weapons can they find do you think?

3.       What do you think Crowley is going to do now?

4.       How are we gonna survive for the four week hiatus?

Leave your feelings, thoughts below and see you all in four weeks!

 

Comments  

Marissa Luevano
# Marissa Luevano 2016-02-24 22:33
Tonight's episode was fantastic. Crowley is making a huge come back.
Dean feels a little more confident which is fueling Sam's confidence too. Brothers forever.
Along with Dean knowing he WILL save Cas because no matter what, he's family. Cas is a hero btw.
Lustifer is scared.

And one more thing, fangirling Dean is the fandom.
percysowner
# percysowner 2016-02-24 22:47
1. Why do you think the Hand of God can only be used once? Because they have 23 episodes this year and if they find the solution now, what will they do to fill out the time? And because if one can be used more than once then it can handle both Lucifer and The Darkness, and we can't have that. In story, I have no clue. The first HOG made sense, kind of, since it was part of the Ark of the Covenant so it wasn't whole. The Rod of Aaron should be a whole entity. I am faintly amused that the Staff of Moses apparently was NOT Weapon of God, since it was able to be cut up and used for revenge. I guess Moses got the publicity and Aaron had the real power.

2. What other weapons can they find do you think? If anyone checks Wiki The Staff of Moses should be out. The tablets with the 10 commandments? More parts of the Ark? Someone with a better knowledge of the Old Testament will have to come up with ideas.

3. What do you think Crowley is going to do now? Look out for himself, possibly ally with Sam and Dean.

4. How are we gonna survive for the four week hiatus? It won't be easy.

Okay, Gunnar was not a good man who made some bad decisions. 10 years ago he was a good man who made a bad decision. Now he's a serial killer, who left a young child without a father, something Dean shouldn't have been all understanding about. I guess the writers have decided that we have had far too much Sam POV and he's going back to researching off screen. It was nice to have him getting some insight for a while. I did like the return of demon deals and actual Hell Hounds. Nice call back to early mythology. This demon's eyes turned red, just like Crowley and they talked about the symbols being from Sumeria. Why? What makes demons have different eye colors? Are we revisiting Crowley being more than he seems?
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-24 23:14
Percy Wikia has the meaning of Coloured demon eyes
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2016-02-25 01:48
Quote:
I guess the writers have decided that we have had far too much Sam POV and he's going back to researching off screen.
Not watched the episode.But reading the article showed me that Sam did not do much.Hope the writers realize it is a story of two brothers not one.
Didi
# Didi 2016-02-25 03:13
Neither brother really did much in this ep. It was pure filler - a diversion for the brothers to get away from their dreary debacle of a life.

They had some great bro moments, some witty repartee, some serious conversation at the end that reminded me of the Winchester way. Of course The Winchester Way is likely to bring on a lot of turmoil in the last third of the season.

I didn't feel this ep was unbalanced between the bros. If it was, I didn't notice because IMO the only relevant moments in the ep involved Crowley/Casifer and Sam and Dean talking.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-25 04:23
I was kinda thinking initially that Sam might end up having some sexy times with Rio. Seeing a different Winchester get his flirt on was cute. :)
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2016-02-25 05:23
I think Sam was super adorable in that scene. Jared and Jensen play convincing five year old men in grownup body. Both of them were cute.

- Lilah
jane
# jane 2016-02-25 07:09
I think it was unbalanced between the Bros, it was a Dean episode. There was no point of view from Sam (I wonder how he feels that his worst nightmare is back on earth, thanks to one of his only friend who betrayed them by saying yes), the research was backstage, he was useless during the fight.
At one time, I forgot he was in the episode, when the phone rang, i was even surprise we saw him on screen, thought we would only see Dean's side of the conversation.
As for the Sam/Dean talking, it was Dean talking, and Sam listening and agreeing.
I am bitter because this season, the writers managed a good balance to give a story to both characters but they are coming back to the failures of past seasons and it gives a bad taste in my mouth.
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2016-02-25 02:08
Crossroad demons have always had red eyes. Crowley was one too but his eyes are now seeping the the redness as he is the king of hell. Little different so who knows. ;)

- Lilah
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-25 00:33
This was a very lite episode to lead into a 4 wk Hellatius. I think the story has been told and this was a good way to say "The End" Everything that everybody has been chatting about ended in this epi.

Love, Family. Trust, Sacrifice, Truth, Fight, Never give up, Beleive in yourself, Doubts, Faith in yourself and each other, Everything they have tried to point out to Sam & more so Dean and us the veiwer all finished with this episode. If we havn't learnt by now if we weren't paying attention we won't win the battle with either Lucifer or Amara. From here on their on their own the Battle begins

The episode itself was ok we had a new writer ? (Correct) a good start and hopefully better to come. I have loved all are Guest Stars so far this season and all episodes except a couple have been up and beyond brilliant. Not bad for 11 yrs. "Beyond the Mat" wasn't as punchy as some episodes, lost a bit of interest here and there, story line a bit fragile. I was hopeing for something more gripping or with a few more threads for us to speculate on to get us through Hellatius. We all have very vivid imagination so by the time we check out various episodes over the next couple of weeks I'm sure we will have everything worked out. Good to see Crowley back & at full strength this will be a good start to 3rd installment of Supernatural
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-25 01:16
Interesting how the female minion demon sacrificed herself and that it was all for nothing. Threw herself in the way of the God strike. Foreshadowing for Sam? Im fearful someone - he or Cas or both - are going to end up flinging themselves(s) in harm's way to save Dean?
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2016-02-25 02:11
I think she was more of a "worshiper" of Lucifer like all the other demons seem to be too. Demons have never liked Crowley really. So I think she did what Ruby, Lilith etc. did in the old times.

- Lilah
LEAH
# LEAH 2016-02-25 01:57
It was just an ok episode in my opinion. It was nice to see the guys have some fun and a little sad because they so rarely do. I do enjoy me a dorky fangirling Dean though. The rest of the episode was just average. Had some good moments. I am really ready for this Casifer thing to be done. The Crowley as a dog thing also. 1 out of 2 is alright for now. I'd give it a C.
Didi
# Didi 2016-02-25 02:10
It was nice to see the boys have some fun and just chill for a minute. Love that Crowley got his mojo back. Crowley is just so much more frightening than Lucifer. Casifer reminds a little of The Joker from Batman (the Jack Nicholson version). The writers are ruining Lucifer for me - it's not Misha, I think it's the direction he's been given to play Hallucifer instead of Lucifer.

So, apparently all the HOG artifacts are one hit wonders. I like that. I don't know how many more of them are out there, but I hope they're all one hit wonders. It ratchets up the drama and really forces them to strategize about how to best use it when they find another one.

The brothers are still united with no secrets. I wonder if that will last? I hope so. It's one of the best parts of this season for me. Does anyone else find it odd that Sam is not more distraught that Luci is running around topside and is clearly interested in killing him? I don't know, I guess Sam really did conquer his fear of Lucifer when he said no to him in the cage.

Do you guys think we might see Michael or Adam this season? What about the death of Death - that storyline is yet to be explored.

There is so much yet to be revealed in the final third of the season. Not looking forward to hellatus.
eilf
# eilf 2016-02-25 20:00
Quote:
So, apparently all the HOG artifacts are one hit wonders. I like that. I don't know how many more of them are out there, but I hope they're all one hit wonders.
So I suppose you could say that all the artifacts suffer from premature obliteration?
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-25 23:43
Ejackly! *Sorry* ;)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-26 07:03
Maybe because the person wielding it is gripping it too tightly? Or perhaps HOGs must be deployed with more of a back and forth motion. Food for thought!:)

(I too apologize!)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-26 10:17
Well I would imagine such a powerful weapon would warrant some decorum. I guess some would look down upon and that it could get kind of embarrassing if you are just standing there waving it all around... ;)
Didi
# Didi 2016-02-25 02:45
Who knew Crowley has storage container full of old relics, including a HOG. Apparently Crowley didn't know the Rod of Aaron was a HOG, but he knew it was powerful, so why hasn't he attempted to use it before? Say, in any episode in S5 for example - I mean it's the freakin apocalypse, what were you waiting for Crowley?
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-25 04:13
1. Why do you think the Hand of God can only be used once? Could you imagine the almighty Shit that would happen if a Demon or Wayward Arch angel would cause if the HOG could be used more than once !!! I think its a saftey mechannism you get one go Make it a good choice

2. What other weapons can they find do you think? I am catholic and did catachism every week but wouldn't have a clue. The problem is if they find it and Sam uses it He dies. So I don't want them to find anymore

3. What do you think Crowley is going to do now? Regroup go to Sam & Dean possibly work together. Crowley can at least hold a HOG maybe some witchcraft / The Boys can trick Cass to release Lucifer and Crowley can send him back to the cage. Although this would be a easy way to finish Cas/Lucy story

4. How are we gonna survive for the four week hiatus? Well I might be moving to Victoria by then, seperation arrangements are being finalized. Initilized by me but now absoulotly terrified.
ANNOY THE HELL OUT OF WFB for any news on S12, or Jensen & Jared. Re-read articles, and speculate and Bookdal why arn't you at the helm during Hellatius. No. No holiday !!!!
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-25 04:55
Don't be terrified of the change. This could be a really good thing, who knows what doors might open for you?

It's been a rough road for me as well and its not over yet but I just landed a job so things are finally looking up. Not only did I get a job but (for the first time in my life) I countered and then negotiated back and forth for a higher salary and got it! I start on the 1st and am really looking forward to this new challenge in my life.

What I'm trying to say is don't give up and have faith that you will end up where you are meant to be. And please don't take offense by my mentioning a higher power and trust me when I say that I am not highly religious but this past year and a half I have learned the hard way to Let go and Let God. This isn't easy for me. I'm stubborn and I like to be in the driver's seat, thank you very much -but If anything I think in my lifetime the lesson being driven home to me is to realize that I don't always have to be in control all the time, that it's okay to relax the grip and just go with it. A Jesus take the wheel type thing in the sense of trusting less in myself and more in a higher power. But as I said I'm stubborn.. ;) I have found tho that when I do trust and hand over (okay, share) the reins that that is when things happen. Finding my apartment and even this job. The path and message isn't always clear but I'm getting there. Trust in yourself and your instincts. When I veer from that is when I run into problems. Sorry this is a rambling mess, and I apologize if I overstepped any boundaries. I hope this finds you well.
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-25 06:42
Thanks Alycat I think of all of you here as family thats why I said what I said, that and I needed some reassurance / I do beleive in a higher power God or for me I tend to like the Buddist faith. This has been a gut feeling for 2 yrs, and for me its takeing back control and proving I can do it. I'm no hero and at times I want to back out of this decision, and the funniest thing is for the first time in my whole 54 yrs I actually reached out to cousins and family this time and the overwhelming emotional support is amazing. I learnt to reach out from a little show that could & its family.
Gotta laugh my strongest supporter lives in America, we met on line during Jareds first AKF campaign I offered to buy her a top we chatted and we have been family since, Thank you everybody xxoo
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 08:14
Jen, best of luck to you with all of these huge changes in your life.
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-25 09:13
Thanks the support through my new friends at the SPN Family has been wonderful Thank you xxoo I metioned above about a lovely lady I met through facebk during Jared's AKF campaign,(She lives somewhere in America, I really can't work your places out ) we were chatting one night about this and that and I said to her It would be a dream come true if we were rich we could meet up one day. But since that is unlikely to happen we agreed to meet in the Supernatural world, we would have one big meet & greet party and run around haunting people and just having a great time I would like to now extend this invitation to everyone here LOL xxoo
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2016-02-25 07:21
Quote:
It's been a rough road for me as well and its not over yet but I just landed a job so things are finally looking up. Not only did I get a job but (for the first time in my life) I countered and then negotiated back and forth for a higher salary and got it! I start on the 1st and am really looking forward to this new challenge in my life.
congrats!!!
http://www.desiglitters.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Wonderful-Picture-Of-Congratulations.gif
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-25 09:14
Thanks!!! :)

Now all I have to worry about is performing as well as I pitched myself! Many years experience, highly successful, proven track record blah, blah, blah... I'd really hate for them to be scratching their heads three months from now wondering "Why in the Hell did we hire this idiot!?" ;)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 15:48
Alycat, sorry, I meant to also offer you my best wishes with your new challenges!
LEAH
# LEAH 2016-02-25 21:01
You'll do just fine alycat! :D Still I hope it all goes well for you. Congratulaions.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-25 23:45
Thanks guys! I appreciate the support!
LEAH
# LEAH 2016-02-25 20:58
Good luck with all that Jen. :)
Didi
# Didi 2016-02-25 05:06
Um, the cat's out of the bag. Someone needs to tell Lucifer he can stop dressing like Cas.
LEAH
# LEAH 2016-02-25 21:02
Ha!
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-02-25 06:34
This episode was meh. It was OK. Some parts were kind of interesting like the boys having fun and being fans and their banter and talking and their getting along. I liked all those things. And I liked the wrestling actors, I thought that they were quite good, and even though he was pretty awful I did feel bad about Gunnar and liked that he was going to take his medicine like an adult and own up to his mistakes. I was a bit surprised that they did kill off the younger wrestler and felt pretty bad for him in the end... the episode had gotten quite dark by then. I was a bit underwhelmed by the crossroads demon, he was pretty blah, but he did drop the idea that not all demons out there are happy about Lucifer's return and that there may be more like him and they could possibly be allies at some point. I was also not a fan of the whole 'Dean plays in the ring' moment........w hat a waste of valuable screen time that could have been spent on shoring up the plot for a nothing moment that wasn't funny or interesting at all. Then the boys split up and we are right back to 'lets follow Dean and watch him do nothing while Sam is off screen and figures everything out.' I hate that lame old trope with a passion. It makes me worried that this new writer is cut out of the Adam Glass mold that I thought we were finally free of. Sam was worse than useless in this episode, getting sent off screen and then standing around helplessly waiting to get saved, not even by his brother, but by the MoW. Boo. I thought that pacing was pretty slow for the most part and Sam's connection with the manager seemed perfunctory at best and was so superficial as to end up not meaning anything at all in the end. And I am sorry to all the Casifer fans out there, but every scene with Casifer and Crowley just made me squirm in abject misery. It was really, really awful here. I hate the whole Crowley/Dog stuff, hate how much they are humiliating Crowley for really no reason that I can see. What is it accomplishing? Why isn't Crowley dead? Casifer has given absolutely not reason to want to keep him alive at all, so the fact that he's still around for Luci to abuse doesn't even make any sense. Now, thankfully, Crowley has seemingly escaped, so hopefully we've seen the last of that awful, embarrassing storyline. Crowley is going to head straight for the Winchesters, I am sure of it. And Misha. Misha, Misha, Misha..... I SO want to like what you are doing here, I WANT to be impressed, or scared or creeped out.... it's just not working for me. This episode was cringeworthy it was so bad. Not menacing, not scary, not powerful or provocative. Misha's Lucifer has not one iota of menace about him, at least not for me. I hope he's working for other fans, but I've taken to looking away when he's on screen. I even turned the sound down at one point cause I just couldn't stand it.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 07:53
Holy crap E! Have you been reading my mind? I agree with every word of your review....but obviously I can't just leave it at that.:)

It was a mediocre episode with some good, some bad and some downright ugly. Once again, the highlight for me was the brothers' interactions. I love their relationship this season and I never get tired of the way they're back to enjoying each other's company and teasing each other. It was really fun watching them at ringside. Absent that, this ep would have been a total bomb for me. However I do agree with this:
Quote:
Then the boys split up and we are right back to 'lets follow Dean and watch him do nothing while Sam is off screen and figures everything out.' I hate that lame old trope with a passion. It makes me worried that this new writer is cut out of the Adam Glass mold that I thought we were finally free of. Sam was worse than useless in this episode, getting sent off screen and then standing around helplessly waiting to get saved, not even by his brother, but by the MoW.
This might be the first ep this season in which we have seen a return of that crap, so I'm worried that the new writer is like Glass or even RT. The scene with Dean in the ring was funny, but it went on too long. It reminded me of the never-ending Dean fight scenes in Baby. And like those scenes in Baby, all I could think was what a wasted opportunity to not have Sam involved. Sam was clearly a wrestling fan himself, although not to the same degree as Dean, so it would have been great fun to see them both sneaking into the ring and trying out their moves on each other. Hopefully this is not a taste of things to come with the new guy. I liked the setting in the wrestling world and I honestly enjoyed the wrestling scenes and the guest actors. I like when the show does something different like this.

The bad was the demon scenes. I love that we finally saw a demon who is actually doing demony things, like making deals and killing people. Hooray for that! The black-suited suckups in Hell's court have demolished demons as any kind of scary bad guys, so I really wanted to like the demon plot here. And some of it was interesting, like the fact that the demons might be trying to get out from under Lucifer and/or Crowley. I inferred that by grabbing souls for himself this demon has become more powerful than the average minion demon, hence his ability to fling the brothers around. We don't know for sure, however, because I feel like some key info was left on the cutting room floor. Parts of the story made no sense. The show has always indicated that demons gain souls for hell through deals, but this deal with Gunnar seemed to involve not just his soul, but his agreement to kill people for the demon so he could gain their souls. It appeared that the marks on the victims were the demon's brand, so to speak. What?!!! If it were that simple, why bother with deals at all? It made a muddled mess of one bit of canon that has always seemed fairly clear cut. If any old demon could acquire souls, and therefore power, by killing people, why wouldn't all of them grab at any chance for power? And what was it that the demon gave Gunnar in that one scene?

But as bad as the demon story was, it paled in comparison to the ugliness, the absolute horror show, that is the Casifer story. After last week I thought that maybe Misha had realized that less is more when it comes to playing Lucifer, but he ratcheted it back up this week and has almost completely ruined my favorite big bad of the series. The incessant mugging, tongue clucking, and other assorted gestures and sounds were truly cringeworthy here. Lucifer now seems less threatening than almost any other big bad, even Metatron, even Dick Roman! Only Rowena seemed less menacing. I simply can't stand that they brought Lucifer back for this campy nonsense. It is not just the acting, but the writing. Lucifer actually came off as dumb when he was outmaneuvered by Crowley, and when he stood there stupidly waiting for Crowley to zap him instead of flying away. As canny as Crowley is, I always felt that Lucifer was the master of strategy and tactics and it ticks me off that he was shown to underestimate Crowley here. I cannot stand watching the scenes of him at court; the more they show of that nonsense, the more Lucifer is being reduced to a standard, B grade villain. Man that ticks me off. Casifer bears absolutely zero resemblance to the Lucifer of S5 and that is a damn shame.The ONLY good part of the hell plot is that Crowley is finally out of the dog collar (one of the worst bits of plotting ever) and off to presumably join forces with the Winchesters.

One last thing that really bugged me about this ep is the complete lack of any acknowledgment by the brothers that their safety at the bunker has been compromised. Sure they can ward the bunker itself against Casifer, but all he'd need to do is station demons outside the bunker to notify him of the brothers' approach, at which time he could instantly fly there and do away with them, or at least with Sam. I know the show can't address in every episode each event that occurred in the previous ep, but this is huge! They now know that Casifer is out there and gunning for them. Show a little concern boys! Show us that you're taking precautionary measures.
This ep wasn't awful because there were some redeeming features, but it was a huge letdown. Hopefully the show will be back on track by the next ep.
Russ
# Russ 2016-02-25 08:04
Considering they also showed no giving of a fuck after the franken-weenies blew open the fortress door ... it fits right in with the show runners approach to his job. Details schmetails.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 15:54
yes, the formerly impregnable bunker has become a joke. Not only does everyone on the planet know its location, but there are apparently many ways to gain access if you're determined enough. I think the brothers were safer in Rufus's cabin!
Didi
# Didi 2016-02-25 17:14
S&D, it gets worse. Checkout the latest spoiler Percy posted to see the latest unwanted visitor to the bunker. Pause the video at 10 seconds.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 17:59
So, party at the bunker for all of the previous seasons' big bads? :) It begins to seem silly that the brothers hang their hats in what appears to be the least secure place on earth! OTOH, if that is the person people think it is in the clip (quite honestly it goes by too fast for me to tell, and it's blurry when I pause it) I will at least be ecstatic for other reasons.
Didi
# Didi 2016-02-25 18:14
Yes. It's who we think it is. Lilah posted a clear picture in the discussion threads.
percysowner
# percysowner 2016-02-25 08:26
I am concerned about the sudden return to Dean is the primary actor, Sam goes to research and get overpowered and needs to be saved motif. I'm also concerned because we know Jared will be shooting at least one episode of Gilmore Girls and so we will have at least one more Sam lite episode. Since I was enjoying Sam actually being important in the storyline, I'm concerned that they are backing away from keeping a Sam POV in the mix.

Quote:
The show has always indicated that demons gain souls for hell through deals, but this deal with Gunnar seemed to involve not just his soul, but his agreement to kill people for the demon so he could gain their souls. It appeared that the marks on the victims were the demon's brand, so to speak. What?!!! If it were that simple, why bother with deals at all? It made a muddled mess of one bit of canon that has always seemed fairly clear cut. If any old demon could acquire souls, and therefore power, by killing people, why wouldn't all of them grab at any chance for power? And what was it that the demon gave Gunnar in that one scene?
I admit I was hazy on why the demon had Gunnar killing people. However, the getting power for himself with the deals actually goes back to canon. In season three the boys thought killing the demon Dean sold his soul to would negate his deal which probably wasn't true. We were told then that Lilith held all the contracts. The implication was that until Lilith rose, the individual demons who made the deal got the souls. Ruby 1 acted as if she had a bond with the demon in MM who was the one who she sold her soul to. Once Crowley took over, he seems to have decided that he wanted to own the souls under contract instead of reverting to the old system. Lucifer obviously doesn't give a hoot and a holler about owning souls one way or the the other. So I have no issue with this demon deciding to game the system and keep the power of the souls for himself. It sounded like he had just started on this course since the Darkness rose.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 16:03
Hi Percys. My issue wasn't with the ability to acquire souls for power, it was more HOW it was done in this ep. It seemed like the demon was gaining the souls of anyone Gunnar murdered on his behalf, just by marking them as his. So why ever bother making deals if all you have to do is mark people and murder them? Why didn't Crowley just have boatloads of people murdered and marked for hell? Was it because he enjoyed the deal-closing kiss so much? :D If that was not what the demon was saying, then I have no idea what was going on between him and Gunner.
percysowner
# percysowner 2016-02-25 16:43
I agree the killing people made no sense. The only way it works is if we assume a lot happened off screen. In the thoroughly awful Season 7 Time For a Wedding, the demon was killing people so he would get their souls earlier. At that time Crowley made the announcement that it was unacceptable because "We're Hell, not Wall Street". We could guess that the demon was having Gunnar kill people like Shawn, who refused the deal to hide what was going on. The other people may have made deals and the demon was using Gunnar to kill them early to hide the fact that it was early. But really that assumes so much that we didn't see that I'm just pulling it out of thin air.

Frankly, I didn't understand how Sam and Dean made the leap from Sumerian symbols to demon. We haven't seen demons do anything especially Sumerian before that I remember.
jane
# jane 2016-02-25 09:27
I can tell YOU read my mind because I agree with everything you said.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 16:04
And your favorite color is...blue?:)
jane
# jane 2016-02-26 08:57
No sorry, you missed this one :P
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-25 09:35
I think they may have left something regarding warding on the cutting room floor. If you will notice when they return from paying their respects/unexpe cted case they walk down the bunker staircase and when they get to the bottom Dean flicks on a switch and you hear a slight hum. I have never seen him do that before.

Also what was Sam taking that was in that bottle Dean threw to him? It appeared to be something Dean had packed in his dufflebag.
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2016-02-25 09:44
I thought they were painkillers? But not sure of course. Sam seemed to have a headache.

- Lilah
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-25 09:49
He did, didn't he? That was another odd little moment you have to wonder if there was more to it that was cut out.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2016-02-25 10:32
*sudden hope his powers were coming back despite his restraint to keep them on perma lock down*

Er nope. *sigh*
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-25 22:34
Yes definatly pain killers and 42:23 is the hand switch moment it buzzers like the lights going on although it could be a alarm. Significant ?? We have not see this before maybe they needed to fill up a 5 - 10 sec gap LOL
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 16:08
OK, apparently I'm not all that observant because I didn't even notice Dean flipping a switch, nor did I notice him throwing anything to Sam. But I'll look for that on a rewatch, which I'll probably do this weekend. I have always wished they included more deleted scenes on the blu-rays. I would love to know if any dialogue or events of real significance are often cut.
LEAH
# LEAH 2016-02-25 16:18
I noticed that switch flipping action too. That is a new one on me. Almost like a house alarm. Or was it turning lights on?
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-26 00:00
Could be tho I didn't notice any difference in the lighting before and after Dean flipped the switch. Lights would be the more logical choice - I think I'm kind of leaning more toward alarm setting just because of the sub episode. Although didn't I just read on this thread about another bunker visitor? If that turns out to be true and the Winchesters didn't do the inviting then maybe they would be wise to reconsider whatever home security company they are using! ;)
LEAH
# LEAH 2016-02-25 16:11
Quote:
this deal with Gunnar seemed to involve not just his soul, but his agreement to kill people for the demon so he could gain their souls. It appeared that the marks on the victims were the demon's brand, so to speak. What?!!! If it were that simple, why bother with deals at all?
Yeah I was wondering that myself. I asked the same question (elsewhere). I did miss a few minutes around the time the crossroads demon showed up so I thought maybe I missed something. Plus if the wrestler was going to get taken imminently by hellhounds why did he feel he had no choice but to keep killing? I did like the Dean being by himself in the ring thing because it let loose his inner child which he would have never done I think if anyone else were around. It was only a few minutes of geekiness which I'm sure Jensen had a ball with.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 16:49
Quote:
Plus if the wrestler was going to get taken imminently by hellhounds why did he feel he had no choice but to keep killing?
That same thought occurred to me. It was one of a number of things that made no sense in the demon plot. At first I thought he had committed to following the demon's orders as part of his original deal. But then he shouldn't have been able to kill the demon. I really can't account for a lot of what happened in the ep.
Sugarhi15
# Sugarhi15 2016-02-25 16:56
There has always been order in hell. There's always been a way of doing things...even though yed was a tyrant, he was in control. The rule was clear..deals for souls. The demon noted that there is chaos in hell. Crowley is basically lucifers dog and lucifer is crazy and only wants weapons found tonbeat amara. Noone is running hell anymore and he basically went rogue, taking care of his own interests. If crowley were at full king of hell power, i doubt we would be having rogue crossroad demons with no code of demonic ethic...as crowley has enforced since his reign as king.
Sugarhi15
# Sugarhi15 2016-02-25 17:00
There has always been order in hell. There's always been a way of doing things...even though yed was a tyrant, he was in control. The rule was clear..deals for souls. The demon noted that there is chaos in hell. Crowley is basically lucifers dog and lucifer is crazy and only wants weapons found tonbeat amara. Noone is running hell anymore and he basically went rogue, taking care of his own interests. If crowley were at full king of hell power, i doubt we would be having rogue crossroad demons with no code of demonic ethic...as crowley has enforced since his reign as king.
Sugarhi15
# Sugarhi15 2016-02-25 17:01
There has always been order in hell. There's always been a way of doing things...even though yed was a tyrant, he was in control. The rule was clear..deals for souls. The demon noted that there is chaos in hell. Crowley is basically lucifers dog and lucifer is crazy and only wants weapons found tonbeat amara. Noone is running hell anymore and he basically went rogue, taking care of his own interests. If crowley were at full king of hell power, i doubt we would be having rogue crossroad demons with no code of demonic ethic...as crowley has enforced since his reign as king.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-02-25 16:40
BoGirle, samandean10 I have nothing to add, you expressed my thoughts. I even just realised that it's just a hiatus, not a hellatus for me.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 17:52
Where have you been hiding disgruntled? I've missed your insights on the last couple of eps. Did you enjoy last week's?
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-02-26 08:07
Just everybody said everything before me. I could only write that I agreed. I understand that the last one should have been a hit, but something was lacking for me. I'm not sure what yet. And yes, I was seriously pissed off that Cas was able to take control for a couple of minutes. But I also think that Sam's soul helped him. If it had been only a threat to Sam, he wouldn't have been able to do it, I think, because he didn't do anything when Casifer was trying to kill boys at the end.
Have you noticed a very interesting detail about Sam i.e., his propensity to ancient languages? At first, when he said that could only read the half of pre-biblical text that half which is not in Aramean I was amused, because logically if they were not in Aramean they should have been in Sumerian, and wrote it off to sloppy writing. But then the showed that Sam learned to read in Aramean, and now they showed that he understands Sumerian symbols. I'm amazed.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-26 13:20
disgruntled, one of my favorite aspects of this season is the return of smart, knowledgeable, research geek Sam. I remember in the earlier seasons barely an episode went by in which we didn't witness this characteristic of Sam's. It's been a different story of late, and I'm thrilled because it's one of the reasons I'm so drawn to the character. (I'm a bit of a nerd myself.:)) So it doesn't surprise me that he is acquainted with these ancient languages.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-02-25 18:06
samandean...... yes, yes and more Yea-es! Agreed.
Quote:
And like those scenes in Baby, all I could think was what a wasted opportunity to not have Sam involved. Sam was clearly a wrestling fan himself, although not to the same degree as Dean, so it would have been great fun to see them both sneaking into the ring and trying out their moves on each other.
I thought the same thing. Can you imagine how funny it would have been if the boys had done their imitation of all their childhood wrestling moves? Cause, you know all little boys do that, imitate the pros... that would have been comedy gold. Sad missed opportunity there. And I didn't think that the Dean moment in the ring was funny at all....and it didn't fit into the story either. If almost felt like an indulged improv moment rather than something that was scripted. And Dean rolls into the ring successfully 3 or 4 times (why we had to see that 3 or 4 times is beyond me...) but then he can't get back out of the ring without hurting himself? Lamer than lame IMO, not to mention a waste of time. I'd rather have seen what Sam was up to while he was off figuring out their whole case then watch Dean play and get zero accomplished. This story seemed a bit light on plot and could have used a bit more attention in that area if you ask me. Conceptually this episode was a good idea, and the secondary characters worked too, but clearly this writer as a very basic and somewhat immature idea of who Sam and Dean are.... we got cliched ideas and bare bones, stock characterizations.
Quote:
The incessant mugging, tongue clucking, and other assorted gestures and sounds were truly cringeworthy here. Lucifer now seems less threatening than almost any other big bad,
Oy vey. This was bad wasn't it? The scene in the storage locker was particularly cringeworthy. What's that British phrase used to describe the most annoying whiner's on the planet? Whinging...Luci fer was whinging and it was bloody awful. Please, can it be over now? For me this is the second worst episode of the season... after Bad Seed, which is still worse.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2016-02-25 08:03
This episode was MEH; give it a C-. Very slow moving with an all-too-obvious bad guy/crossroads demon thing. It was nice to see the brothers have a good time for a change.
Why aren't Sam and Dean using that sigil that Dean learned from Delphine last week? Would seem to me that it would protect them against demons.

I'm really having a difficult time buying Misha as Lucifer; just not working for me to the point where I cringe and want to change the channel when his scenes are on. Glad we finally had some movement on the Crowley front, though these God weapons are popping up like Starbucks in strip malls. Wish they could have tied it back in to the weapons arsenal that Balthazar stole in S6, just for consistencies sake.

1. Why do you think the Hand of God can only be used once?
Suppose they had no choice since they're popping up all over the place. Why wasn't the staff of Moses considered a HoG weapon? The kid Aaron used it a couple of times in Season 6.

2. What other weapons can they find do you think?
Who the hell knows; the effectiveness as a plot device is being cheapened by the ease and frequency with which these weapons are popping up.

3. What do you think Crowley is going to do now?
Plot his revenge. Given that Lucifer/Casifer is not nearly as menacing/scary as he was in Season 5, I can see Crowley taking a shot at it. In Season 5, Crowley was scared to the point where he hid under a rock from Lucifer.

4. How are we gonna survive for the four week hiatus?
This was a weak episode to go in to mini-hellatus with; hope they hit the ground running when they come back.
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-25 09:01
Please everybody the sigil Delphine used last week is only good if you brand yourself with the sigil. It is connected by Heart & Blood. To remove the sigil at a later date the person ie Sam or Dean will need to die to remove the sigil. Please listen to Delphine explain this to Dean when she hands him the knife to kill her
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2016-02-25 10:55
Yes, I listened to her; wasn't saying they should carve themselves with it; didn't they also use the sigil on the submarine itself, and it was rendered ineffective when part of the sigil was scraped away by Delphine?
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-25 22:26
Yeah thats not explained very well I thought Delphine infered that the sigils had been scraped but to complete the process she had to die ?? Open to interpretation I reckon. Goodness they live at the bunker surely the MOL have heaps of cool sigils they could use ??
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2016-02-25 10:34
Quote:
Given that Lucifer/Casifer is not nearly as menacing/scary as he was in Season 5, I can see Crowley taking a shot at it. In Season 5, Crowley was scared to the point where he hid under a rock from Lucifer.
Yup. Lucifer is a joke now. Crowley should not and NEVER be better than Lucifer. I mean he just stood there, powerless! Couldn't do a THING to get the weapon out of his hands.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 16:12
Quote:
What other weapons can they find do you think?
Who the hell knows; the effectiveness as a plot device is being cheapened by the ease and frequency with which these weapons are popping up.
Agreed. Next thing you know they'll find one in the bunker hiding in plain sight. I do still like the idea, however, that the tablets are HOGs and that the brothers will consider this possibility and hunt down Metatron for info. I can't believe we're done with Metatron. Hey, maybe he throws his lot in with Lucifer in exchange for somehow getting his grace back. That would be interesting.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-02-25 16:33
I think it's becasue of where the rod of Aaron was kept, in the Ark. What about stone tablets of the Ten Commandments? In this case they should be more powerful, than anything else there. It was for them the Ark was built.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-02-25 16:36
I think it's because of where the rod of Aaron was kept, in the Ark. What about stone tablets of the Ten Commandments? In this case they should be more powerful, than anything else there. It was for them the Ark was built.
Shante
# Shante 2016-02-25 08:21
much better than last week, *still muted Casifer* much better dialogue its still we have to save Cas now and defeat the Darkness later tho, i will give it a pass unlike last week
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2016-02-25 08:55
I found the episode boring, boring, boring, predictable, predictable, predictable. Only good thing about it was the music. Tesla's Modern Day Cowboy. Love that song!
I'd give it a D. Only because it's not the worst episode ever. Damn close tho.
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2016-02-25 09:51
Not the worst episode, but pretty meh, made even more so with Sam out of the picture so much. I kind of expected an episode that was Sam lite because Jared had so much time off a while back, and seeing the promos, I figured this was it. It really does harken back to previous seasons, but I'm not going to get too bent out of shape unless it keeps happening It may just have been that Jared wanted time off.

The best I can say is that I'm glad that Crowley is out. Those scenes of hell are just painful. I'm not talking about Misha's performance either, just the whole storyline. Misha is obviously trying and having fun, but Mark was always a caged tiger underneath and Misha just can't pull that off.

The whole episode was basically filler and a way to move Crowley's storyline forward. They now know for sure that the HOG objects are one offs. And we know that Crowley is on his own. Other than that, not much of importance.

With Jared once again having time off to film GG, and the fact that before that he was in Austin for quite a while, I'm guessing there's another episode coming up that he will barely make an appearance in. Maybe the one with [Spoilers]?
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2016-02-25 09:54
This was a real slow burner for me. Whilst I did laugh at Dean being over excited and the wrestling moves he did it overall didn't excite me. What really pissed me off was Crowley getting one over on Lucifer. Lets downgrade Lucifer even more by making him look foolish and then failing to get Crowley before he teleports out. *slow clap* Lucifer just feels like any other villain now to me; can be outsmarted and outdone easily. My original score for this episode judging by trailers was 6/10. I give it 5. In other words, bearable for most and sparks of interest elsewhere.

Why do you think the Hand of God can only be used once? A good idea. Imagine if they didn't loose the charge? It'd be ridiculous. Sam and Dean could do a tour of American and instab gib (sorry, gaming term) every monster.

What other weapons can they find do you think? Lets see, we've had a lump of rock and a stick. How about a long lost Samulet? ;)

What do you think Crowley is going to do now? Piss his pants, I mean... hide. Whatever it is I REALLY hope he doesn't pull another fast one on Lucifer. Don't make Lucifer look more stupid please.

How are we gonna survive for the four week hiatus? I thought it was 2?! *collapses*
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 16:15
Quote:
What really pissed me off was Crowley getting one over on Lucifer. Lets downgrade Lucifer even more by making him look foolish and then failing to get Crowley before he teleports out. *slow clap* Lucifer just feels like any other villain now to me; can be outsmarted and outdone easily.


Yes, this really irks me too! :(
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-25 22:23
I followed you on the Hellatius Yelloweyes you previously said 2 & I thought ok can handle that / but 4 NAH I will hibernate
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-26 00:11
*(And although I understood it to be four weeks) collapses right alongside of you*
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2016-02-25 10:37
I thought the ep was evenly split between crowley/luci and sam and dean. Given you get a 42 min ep, 21 min was devoted to each storyline. The boys were together for most of those 21 min. I just think in this episode we saw it from a dean pov because he is the one who needed the confidence boost...he is the one doubting himself and falling into the trap of feeling useless....betw een last week and now this week, defeatest dean is out and fighting dean is back...and its exactly what both boys need going into the last eps of this season.:D

I think the samulet is a hand of god and i think sam still has it. Luci didnt find it because its likely in sams treasure box. I agree that it's likely precautionary to have the hog power accessible one time..otherwise whoever holds a hog is just as powerful as god himself. God probably made these weapons specifically for use against the darkness.

Crowley will likely ally with the boys..but casifer would know this, so crowley will have to lay low for awhile i would think.....maybe crowley will hunt down metatron...does metatron have any of the tablets?
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2016-02-25 15:20
I like your theory. Wouldn't that be an interesting development if the Samulet came into play.

And on second viewing, you're right. There actually wasn't that much more of Dean than Sam, it just sort of felt that way because of the way the episode switched between characters. I think it's mostly sensitivity after so many seasons of Sam being sent off to research while Dean interacts with the guest of the week, and then being incapacitated. It really hasn't happened at all this season. The best part of the episode was the two of them having fun at the wrestling match. The rest was just kind of there.

I also don't enjoy watching Dean drink, and I think that is another point of sensitivity for Dean and Sam fans because it has such negative connotations for Dean right from season 4 forward. He talked about his liver screaming and frankly, I'm as surprised he hasn't needed a transplant as I am that Sam isn't jello on a plate from all of his head injuries.
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-25 22:20
LOL jello from head injuries and a new liver HaHahaaaaaa :):):):):) ( ithink Dean metioned at a con that he was sick of drunk Dean, but I think that applied to S6 - S10 ??)
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-02-25 18:23
How could the Samulet be a HoG? It seems like merely holding on to a HoG sets the thing off..... Crowley didn't even really mean to set the stick off. Hog's clearly have hair triggers. How could Dean have worn it for 14 years, then Sam wearing it for a year, Bobby having it in his possession for who knows how long and not set the thing off? It should have gone off the moment Dean held it on that Christmas morning. A single shot weapon is not special enough for the Samulet.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2016-02-25 18:55
I dunno... but it'd be such a thrilling scene to see it return as a HoG
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-02-25 18:59
It needs to come back and be more than a single shot weapon that's discharged prematurely IMO......HoGus interruptus?
eilf
# eilf 2016-02-25 21:09
LOL you made that joke first, drat :D

ETA do you know how many rewrites of the above sentence I had to make so that it WASN'T innuendo?
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-02-26 00:24
:P
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-26 07:14
I thought Aaron's Rod was more of a late discharge. Methinks Crowley should have used more of a thrusting motion. :)

(HoGus Interruptus makes me laugh every time I scroll past it. Yep, I'm that juvenile)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 19:00
Quote:
It should have gone off the moment Dean held it on that Christmas morning.


Now THAT would have made it a Very Special SPN Christmas!:)
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-02-26 00:24
:p:p
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2016-02-25 21:46
From Wiki: There are numerous references to the hand, or arm, of God in the Hebrew Bible, some clearly metaphorical in the way that remains current in modern English, but others capable of a literal interpretation. [7] They are usually distinguished from references to a placement at the right hand of God. There are three occasions in the gospels when the voice of God is heard, and the hand often represents this in visual art.[8] Gertrud Schiller distinguishes three functions of the hand in Christian art: as symbol of either God's presence or the voice of God, or signifying God's acceptance of a sacrifice.[9]

The Hand of God as noted by Luci is simply an object that God touched. By definition, it's more metaphorical and symbolic, representing God's presence. The amulet, as noted by Cas, glows in God's presence. I don't believe it's set in stone that a hand of god is exclusively a weapon, nor is it set in stone that one would necessarily explode The rod didn't nor did Crowley and though Crowley is the king of hell, I don't see him immune to God's power. The amulet, by definition, is a hand of god....but the hand of god by definition isn't necessarily a weapon. Then again, who's to say what that amulet is capable of if it's used the right way. maybe in order for the amulet to be used as a weapon if it indeed was one, one might have to use some kind of incantation.... .all i'm saying is that by wiki definition, and by cas's definition, the amulet, which glows in God's presence is indicative that he touched it.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-26 00:37
So once a HOG has been set off does it then become a PIGGY?

*Sorry*
PsG
# PsG 2016-02-25 20:20
The, Samulet cannot be a HoG because handling HoG artifacts will kill the handler and expel the power.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-26 00:34
But If Sam has the amulet Lucifer (now Casifer) would know because of the time Sam said "yes" to him prior to the leap into the Pit. Regardless of where Sam put it for safekeeping.

...Or does Metatron have further insight into the Hand of God and where/what those items may be. Personally I hope we are all done with them. The idea that nobody knew anything about their existence until Sam's smart and extensive research uncovered it and now they are popping up like kids who hear the local ice cream truck... no. How many are there going to be? Also if Dean handles one will he get a different result due to the whole former Michael Sword, Righteous Man, Heavens Servant thing? Or maybe there will be a reaction from it because of his stint in Purgatory, the Demonic turn and bearing the MOC. Not to mention being Amaras Plus One. Or whatever the Hell he is for her... Which begs the question - Does the Hands power react according to the threat, or the individuals intent and strength that is using it?
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2016-02-26 07:19
All I'm saying is that by definition, the amulet, which represents God as it glows in his presence would be a Hand of God. As a matter of fact, so would the tablets. And there's one other person who would not only know about the amulet, but who would know it's whereabouts. Dean threw it away in DSOTM. Let's say Sam didn't retrieve it from the pail, which would seem ridiculous, but it is SPN and the ridiculous has happened before. There is still one player on the board who not only knows about the amulet, but would know that Dean threw it away....after all he would've written it.....Chuck our little prophet who has been there during the prevention of the Apocalypse. Chuck who if not God, certainly seems to be tight with him, and Chuck for whatever reason is now making another guest appearance quite soon. So maybe the amulet isn't one, but maybe it is.....it's just as plausible a theory as any other. So i'll likely hang onto it until show proves me wrong. ;) Like I said, I don't think every HOG is necessarily a weapon, just proof of God's existence, a symbol of his presence.

as for Lucifer knowing because of his time in Sam, well that's only if Luci knows about the amulet in the first place. If God knew that luci would betray him, why would God let Luci know about every HOG. wouldn't God be smart enough to have an ACE up his sleeve? other than the Winchesters of course. ;)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-26 07:38
Quote:
So maybe the amulet isn't one, but maybe it is.....it's just as plausible a theory as any other. So i'll likely hang onto it until show proves me wrong. ;)

Sugarhi, I'm not sure whether or not the amulet is a HoG, but you could very well be right that it's coming back this season. When you think about the many other dangling plot threads from other seasons that have been revisited, and even just references to previous events, it seems inconceivable that they WOULDN'T bring back the amulet. Especially because, like you, I think there's no way Sammy left that in the garbage can.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-26 10:55
"Incontheebable !"
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-26 13:31
Oh crap, did I spell that word wrong?;)
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-02-27 02:40
"You keep using that word..... I do not think it means what you think it means!"
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-27 06:55
Well sure if you're talking about inconceivable - but incontheebable? I beg your pardon. That's totally different! ;)
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-02-27 08:46
You're too late! The Cliff's of INSANITY!!
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-28 05:17
Oh I swan dived off them years ago! ;)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-26 10:53
My guess if someone at sometime somewhere will run Amara through with the Spear of Destiny - which also could be a Hand of God if you think about it. Though I would imagine at some point one of the old timey wimey MOL dudes might have touched it...
What if TFW catches her in a version of the Banshee trap and then stab her like Elena did at the retirement home. I don't know. :)
I'm just patiently waiting for them to at least mention the damn thing! I mean come on! It's THE SPEAR! Ah, realistically the mysterious train will probably make an appearance long before we ever see God's toothpick. That's it! TFW will all board the train and use it to run Amara down... I knew that train whistle would be important! ;)
LEAH
# LEAH 2016-02-25 12:17
I don't disagree with many of the critical comments but I don't agree this is a return to Sam having less POV. As sugarhi mentioned it was fairly evenly split up between all the plots. As a Dean fan I wasn't too thrill myself with him drinking, being drunk, or hungover and incapacitated much of the latter half. The whole episode was underwhelming. The season so far has been really good in a lot of ways so I am going to consider this one of the ones I put on my 'didn't love' list.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-02-25 18:33
I guess the issue is, well at least for me anyway, is that we had to watch Dean drink, and cavort in the ring and basically not get anything accomplished other than finding out that all the wrestlers's weren't demons; and we DIDN"T get to watch Sam solve the entire case while he was sent off screen. Was Dean sent off screen so that we could watch Sam? No, that never happens even though they made it pretty clear that what Sam was doing was more pivotal to the plot than what Dean was doing. It's a lazy way of not having to give the plot any real attention.....j ust a phone call "Did you find anything?" "Yeah, a lot actually....bla h, blah, blah" Plot points summed up in approximately 1.75 minutes. Hey writers' its more fun and more interesting to watch the boys INVESTIGATE rather than hearing a quick summary from a character who wasn't even on screen when he figured everything out. Boo. And I guess I thought we'd seen the end of useless, damsel in distress Sam, although to be fair, Dean wasn't in any better shape either, having to sit tied up listening to the monologuing not-villian. This episode really was a muddle and upon further reflection and under scrutiny its not holding up well at all.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 19:09
Quote:
is that we had to watch Dean drink, and cavort in the ring and basically not get anything accomplished other than finding out that all the wrestlers's weren't demons; and we DIDN"T get to watch Sam solve the entire case while he was sent off screen.
That's exactly why it reminded me of Baby. Sam was off investigating and obtaining important info and being attacked, yet we saw a good 8-10 minutes of Dean engaging in THREE different fights, seemingly for the sheer joy RT got from scripting those fights.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-02-26 00:27
True.... while we are watching Dean have fight number three we learn, belatedly, that Sam was off saving a couple of kids at significant cost to himself.....yea h, I can see where something like that would have been totally boring and not worth seeing at all........
jane
# jane 2016-02-26 09:12
I want to add that I'd like to know how Sam feels knowing his worst nightmare is back on earth, that their friend betrayed them saying yes. Even when he suggested to Dean that maybe Castiel didn't want to be saved, he was walking on eggshells to not hurt Dean's feeling.
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2016-02-26 09:48
This is my MAJOR gripe. They've made pains in the last few seasons to make sure we know that Castiel is NOT JUST Dean's friend, that he cares significantly about Sam as well and that Sam has been there to help him multiple times. So having to watch Sam comfort Dean and reassure Dean about Cas, when Sam has been affected as well, probably more by what Cas did, is annoying to say the least. They've been so much better this season about having the brothers be there for each other, I'm really surprised that Dean hasn't asked Sam how he's handling this situation. It's poor writing and insulting to one of the lead characters on the show.
Didi
# Didi 2016-02-26 13:25
I agree. IMO it's a reflection of the show pandering to a particular segment of the fandom. It's been pretty evident this season, especially the last two eps.
Didi
# Didi 2016-02-25 14:33
Leah and sugarhi, I'm with you on this. I didn't think this ep was unbalanced. I think it was more focused on the Casifer/Crowley story.

I too am tired of the Dean drunk, hungover, passed out bit. Dean's decisions are pretty shitty when his self esteem is low and it always results in brothers bickering and angst. And if there's a storyline that I don't want to see its bickering brothers, woeful me, blah, blah, blah. Dean needs his confidence back before the boys start tackling all the big bads. I think episode tried to articulate that both brothers are ready for the fight. Not just Sam. Not just Dean. But together. At least that's how I choose to look at this ep.

We can't really compare this new writer to Adam Glass. The new guy is being mentored by Andrew Dabb and this is his first, and only, episode. So let's give him a chance. If his second ep is crap then I'll cry foul. Adam Glass was hired by Sera and was the head writer for years. I'm glad he's gonsky cause some of the canon he introduced is gag worthy and Andrew Dabb has my permission to twist it.
LEAH
# LEAH 2016-02-25 14:50
I just wrote it off to a less than stellar episode. I am totally in agreement with giving a new writer a chance before writing them off.:) Hopefully he ups his game a bit next time out. I hope the theme that both brothers "are ready for the fight" turns out to be true because mopey Dean is not entertaining. I DO love that this season has almost no tension between them and just normal bickering. Big yay for that. The pervading feeling this season is mutual cooperation and determination to do this together!
percysowner
# percysowner 2016-02-25 16:51
I agree. I saw some real potential in this new writer. My concerns come because I know we are going to get at least one Sam lite episode due to Gilmore Girls and maybe more if the reports of him being in Austin so much are true. I know that Sam and Dean had reasonably equivalent time on this episode, but it felt like too much of a callback to Sam's time being meaningless. When Sam is a focus of an episode we still get Dean's emotional reaction to what Sam is doing and Dean usually rides to the rescue. When Dean is the focus of the episode we get Sam calling him to tell him what he found in his research and then needing to be rescued. They moved away from that this year and I'm just fretting that they have decided to return to that pattern. Give Sam an In The Beginning or The End where Dean is virtually absent and I might worry less, but right now I"m way to sensitized about the years of the lack of Sam POV.
Sugarhi15
# Sugarhi15 2016-02-25 14:54
After watching this ep i was reminded of point of no return and a little hammer of the gods. Its not exactly the same, but back in s5' dean had an extremely defeatest attitude and was ready to say yes to michael. The vessel and this ep remind me of ponr and hammer of the gods because we see the change in deans attitude and the return of his confidence...it 's what was needed in the fight against luci then and it!'s whats needed now. we can now go into the last half of the season knowing that both boys are ready for this fight and theyre in it 100% together.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 16:59
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The new guy is being mentored by Andrew Dabb and this is his first, and only, episode. So let's give him a chance.

Didi, I'd never write the guy off after just one ep, no matter how bad it was. But in a season which has been blissfully free of scenes in which "Sam exits stage left to scratch his arse while Dean gets to do cool, important stuff" this ep got my spidey senses tingling a little. After the seemingly endless series of eps in S10 featuring these types of scenes, I was just starting to feel confident that full Sam involvement is the new norm. Hopefully it was just a misfire by the new writer. I'm rooting for him! :)
jane
# jane 2016-02-25 14:44
I was a little surprised that Sam and Dean left when the hellhound came. They didn't even tried to save Gunnar. Sure it was for the trials, but when the life of a pretty girl was on the plate, Dean did everything he could to save her. And they succeeded. They know their knife can kill a hellhound. why din't even tried ? It seems very OOC to me, for both of them.
Sugarhi15
# Sugarhi15 2016-02-25 15:04
I didnt find it ooc at all. Gunnar was a killer after all. In this ep alone he killed three people. Besides he told dean he wasnt a good man and he had this coming. It was really gunnars only redeeming quality and the boys gave that to him.;)
percysowner
# percysowner 2016-02-25 15:21
I agree. Gunnar killed many people including a father, which left his young son without a parent, something that Sam and Dean should understand how horrible that is for the kid. Also in order to kill the Hell Hound they had to see the Hell Hound and that required the special glasses that they didn't have on them.
jane
# jane 2016-02-25 17:40
Still, they usually try harder. An other thing is that they came very unprepared: they didn't know the hellhound would come, sure, but they knew a demon was involved, no holly water ?.
And why not trying to exorcise the demon when they were stocked. I think I remember in the beginning of the season that Sam wanted to come back to exorcise and save as many humans as possible.
Bad writing for me.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-25 17:49
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they knew a demon was involved, no holly water ?.
And why not trying to exorcise the demon when they were stocked.
That is an excellent point Jane. I had thought it odd and silly that the boys brought a gun to what potentially was a demon fight, but I wasn't even thinking about their failure to try to incapacitate and maybe exorcise the demon.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-26 00:48
Unfortunately she actually wasn't saved. As Sammy pointed out once she dies she'll still have to fulfill her contract and go to Hell. Dean said she'd be saved if they managed to close the Gates of Hell. Which they didn't so if anything they just bought her time.
jane
# jane 2016-02-26 10:52
Still better than leaving without doing a damn thing, I think.
I didn't recognize the WINchesters here.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-02-27 02:49
They did the same in season 2's Crossroad Blues. They found that old guy who sold his soul to become a painter and he was dodging the hell hounds too. Sam and Dean didn't try to save him either and he pretty much gave the boys the same "i have it coming" speech that Gunner gave to them in this episode. He gave them some goofer dust to try and hold off the hell hounds, but he would't let them help him....its pretty much the same thing here, so not unprecedented behavior on the part of the boys.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-27 06:58
I loved that dudes paintings!!! Poor guy. All talent, no fame. Really blew that CR deal, didn't he?
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-27 09:22
That guy made the same mistake Gunnar did. He asked for talent but forgot to ask for the fame and fortune that sometimes comes with talent. Gunnar asked for the Championship but forgot to ask that he retain it for more than just a hot minute. I've learned a valuable lesson about framing my request should I ever make a deal for my soul.:)
percysowner
# percysowner 2016-02-27 09:34
As someone pointed out to me on livejournal, wrestling is all scripted, so Gunnar selling his soul to be made champion makes less than zero sense. It would be like Jensen selling his soul so Dean could take the MOC, as opposed to going to the writers and telling them that this is what he wants. I guess they wanted to sell the illusion that wrestling is real, but couldn't they have picked something else for him to sell his soul for?
percysowner
# percysowner 2016-02-27 09:34
As someone pointed out to me on livejournal, wrestling is all scripted, so Gunnar selling his soul to be made champion makes less than zero sense. It would be like Jensen selling his soul so Dean could take the MOC, as opposed to going to the writers and telling them that this is what he wants. I guess they wanted to sell the illusion that wrestling is real, but couldn't they have picked something else for him to sell his soul for?
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-27 10:11
it's true that it's scripted percys, but that makes it potentially even more necessary that Gunnar might have to sell his soul, because nothing he does, no matter how skilled or entertaining he is, will determine whether he gets the championship. It depends solely on whatever criteria the wrestling PTB want to consider. So no matter how much he was grinding it out, they might NEVER have deemed him a good champion from a PR point of view. But he didn't want to wait to find out, because as fake as wrestling is, my understanding is that still takes quite a toll on the wrestlers' bodies.