“The Vessel” was a powerful, suspenseful story that dramatically advanced the season’s battles against Amara and Lucifer. Its impact on the season, and in fact, Supernatural canon, was completely unexpected. The title was a clever play on words, referring both to the doomed underwater vessel in which a sacrifice that perhaps saved the world from Nazi domination played out; and Castiel’s vessel, occupied by a scheming and ruthless Lucifer.

“The Vessel” added to the rich history of the Men of Letters, providing another detailed personal story of their role in opposing the Nazis during World War II.
“Henshaw pulled some strings with a Man of Letters in the O.S.S. to requisition an active U.S. submarine to transport Delphine and the weapon back to the states.”
In this one line, the MoL transformed from a secret sect of whispers and lore, to a vast network of individuals, some of whom were powerful enough to alter the course of history. I think that’s a noteworthy expansion of canon. It also adds gravitas to the legacy and caretaker role that Sam and Dean inherited by discovering and occupying the bunker.

Robert Berens made a specific point of thanking the VX team for their amazing underwater shots. He acknowledged that the whole submarine scenario was believable because of their work. I absolutely agree with him. I also want to acknowledge the art department, though. They created a library of history books that Sam studied. The illustrations in those books were amazing, and artistically and convincingly supported Sam’s long explanation on Nazi history.   The pages were aged, the print was antique, the pictures were meticulous – I was totally pulled into the 1940s era.

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Little details like that made this episode genuine.

This episode was also very convincing because of stellar acting. Mark Sheppard once again demonstrated his amazing talent. He dominated the few scenes in which he appeared, even as he was playing a broken, submissive ‘doggie’. We’d seen none of his torture, yet he convincingly portrayed his plight through grimaces and his kowtowed body language.

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I also have to specifically acknowledge Misha’s portrayal of Lucifer. He conveyed Lucifer’s deviance through his eyes and sneers especially.
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Switching back and forth between characters mid-scene is extremely challenging. I felt as if I was watching Misha truly deepen his acting abilities for the first time.

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Jared and Jensen were equally amazing. We’ll each be drawn to our favorite’s performance, but I am awed by how much they can convey through their facial expressions.

As with last week’s long-awaited honest conversation between Sam and Dean, this story also included an “hallelujah!” moment: the brothers discovering that Lucifer, posing as Castiel, was infiltrating their bunker.  That was very, very well done.

I’m so relieved that charade didn’t carry on longer. It was also fantastic to have another strong, smart woman as the center of the episode.
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Supernatural benefits and is enriched by this balance.

I haven’t even begun to discuss the many layers and symbolic meanings in this episode. Was WWII specifically used as a reference to the last great enemy the world faced together? Did the French resistance and Delphine symbolize being able to eject a hostile occupation of a sovereign body?  Let’s start with the message that permeated the entire episode: strength and power.

The Truth of Power (or The Power of the Truth)


I was so caught up in the drama and suspense of the story that I didn’t hear this thread on first viewing. It came through loud and clear, though, in the second watch. Every character, every scenario, discussed the power needed to battle Amara. First, there were several references to the power of God and Lucifer. Sam alluded to it when he reminded Dean of their desperate situation:

Sam: “"The Hand of God." I mean, that was sort of a catchall term for several objects he touched on earth in biblical times, but they're believed to contain traces of His power. Dean, Lucifer's caged. God's M.I.A. The only beings strong enough to battle Amara are gone. If we're gonna fight her, what better way to arm up than with an actual dose of his power?

In a very clever and more subtle move by the writers, Lucifer had the demons retrieve all his possible weapons from his crypts, confirming that Lucifer doesn’t have a ‘secret weapon’ that will magically defeat Amara. It also cleverly conveyed that Lucifer knows he doesn’t have enough innate power to defeat Amara. Crowley learned and voiced that truth, getting Lucifer to admit that all his bravado about being able to defeat Amara was a lie:

Crowley: The truth, sir?  You're not strong enough. You've had your weapons delivered. You realize they won't be enough. If you thought you could beat Amara, you'd be taking the fight to her, right now.
Casifer: You're right. At the moment, I may be a bit underequipped. Maybe defeating Amara was a bit more of a team effort than I led certain people to believe.

Sam then reminded us of the difference between Castiel’s and Lucifer’s power when he explained the new spell to "Cas":

"The spell of gathering." It's an incantation used to "focus the power of celestial beings" -- angels -- "against all drawn forms of evasion." This spell was designed to clear all mystical or occult blockages. I mean, this is highly theoretical magic. It's never been used before, but it sounds like it could work. … That's why it's never been used before. It requires the power of an archangel. Even at full power, you're not strong enough.

  Sam’s subsequent conversation with Casifer about the spell reiterated that power is the currency of their battle:

Sam: You're not strong enough, Cas. You could get hurt... without a serious boost to your angel power, that spell won't even work.
Casifer: My strength may surprise you.
Sam: Wait a second. I remember Bobby told me, when you needed strength to retrieve us from the past, you used him to power up.
Moments later, Casifer again referenced truth, even though his "truth" was a lie:

And then when Dean comes back and he finds this place decorated with your guts, I will tell him the truth, Sam.

Beyond individuals’ power (God's, Lucifer's, Castiel's, Delphine's as a infiltrator, Sam's as a researcher, Dean as a soldier), the power of weapons was explored. Lucifer knew the conventional weapons from his crypts were insignificant against the Power of God. Sam's research turned up several alternate weapons. He found a new spell that could be used to erase warding. Another custom brewed spell (‘highly theorethical magic”) that’s never been used before! It’s a reminder of the witchcraft thread and that witches are often needed for spells. The spell is also another important addition to canon that could easily be used in the impending battle. Sam also uncovered the "Hand of God" as a possible weapon against Amara. Casifer filled in some details, confirming that God’s power would work against God’s sister:
normal The vessel 208


Casifer: There were several God-touched objects, but it never occurred to me that any had survived the flood, let alone the 20th Century.
Sam: Do you think we can use it against Amara?
Casifer: It's perfect.

So this was yet another monumental addition to canon: the Hand of God isn’t the only God-level weapon on Earth. God’s power can be a part of the final battle without God himself having to participate. That’s at least a direction the boys can pursue. Casifer’s comments also suggested these “weapons” may be the key to a possible winning strategy. Delphine explained this new canon further, but was clearly the voice of caution:

Its power is potent and unstable.
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Dean: It's the power of God. Maybe I can use it to save you, save the sub.
Delphine: And your war? You save the ship, get us to the surface, and then what? The power of God will consume you, and you'll have merely brought the weapon closer to the Nazis' grasp.

The hand of God didn’t work out as Sam had hoped (which actually I’m a bit dismayed about. A piece of the Arc of the Covenant can only release its power once? Does that make sense to you?).
normal The vessel 641

Sam has a new, and validated, direction for his research now, though.

All this discussion of the new weapons and their use seemed to reveal a “truth” as well: that Lucifer is in fact needed to defeat Amara. Sam assumed this when he justified his historical search to Dean, but Castiel and Lucifer both actually confirmed it.
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Assuming Castiel can read Lucifer’s thoughts since they are cohabitating (just as Lucifer can access all of Castiel’s memories), I was overjoyed when Castiel fought his way past Lucifer to save Sam (Go, Cas!) and bring them what might be helpful insider intelligence:
I wanted to be of service to the fight. And only Lucifer can beat her.

Lucifer also seemed confident when he thought he had the power of God in his hands:

We have a common enemy. With this, she will be no problem.

Delphine had previously said that mortals couldn’t wield the weapon and survive (sound a bit like the First Blade?). Maybe Castiel can use it, but given the emphasis on the difference between his power and Lucifer’s, I think the message was that an archangel is needed to channel God’s power.

One more significant addition to canon: the new supernatural warding sigil. It seems the brothers should be etching that all over the bunker! How else would they keep Casifer from just using their front door and walking down the stairs again? It’s power is bound to a person:

It's spell-bound -- to my blood, my heart. Its power lives and dies with me.
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Again, spells, hearts (last week’s theme), and power. Delphine bound her life to power its protection, meaning someone has to be willing to sacrifice themselves to keep it working.

Sacrifice


I first have to comment on the skillful use of contrast within the script. The sailor who kept interrupting Dean’s end-is-nigh introductory speech to Delphine with basic, everyday human worries grounded the biblical, supernatural plane that has taken over the Winchesters’ lives. The innocent eavesdropper slowly absorbed what was happening, starting with inane details like sports, expanding to impactful matters like world leaders, then grasping his own death and those of his friends.
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Accepting that his death was inevitable, he wanted it to have meaning, so he quickly moved to thinking of loved ones, asking when they would be safe from the war. He had only a simple understanding of matters that were much larger than him, but he was still ready to sacrifice himself if it was for the greater good.  

Delphine was also willing to sacrifice herself for the greater good. Dean couldn’t bring himself to kill her though, which is an intriguing, and even unexpected, show of compassion overruling his strategic thinking. Is compassion now effecting Dean’s judgment more than it has before? This wasn’t Sam he was saving; it was someone he knew for less than an hour, and someone he knew was already destined to die. His hesitancy struck me as significant, and possibly a clue to the final showdown. He was obviously deeply moved by the sacrifice he “witnessed”.
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It seems like something that will brew for a while then alter his reaction to something in the future. What do you think? Delphine dying words were also very troubling if applied to the heroes of our century:

“We are supposed to die. Let us do it with a purpose.”

Death frequently, and recently Billie most emphatically (I still think she’s Death), told the brothers that they are supposed to be dead. Delphine’s sacrifice could very well foreshadow that both brothers will try or need to sacrifice themselves for the greater good.  Casifer said defeating Amara the first time was a team effort. We have long speculated that subterfuge and betrayal were as much a part of trapping her as was brute force. His admission foreshadows that Sam, Dean, Castiel, Crowley and possibly a witch (and maybe Death?) will all need to team up to defeat Amara, and that more than one may be sacrificed.

“The Vessel” was a complex script that not only decisively dealt with immediate problems, but opened up many new possibilities for the future. It was also immensely impactful visually. I found myself copying nearly every moment of the hour, impressed by its meaningful or stunning cinematography. Here are a few more shots, just to exemplify the incredible direction, lighting, sets and team work that make this episode epic:

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I couldn't possibly cover all the episode's implications this quickly, so what did you see that I may have missed?  What do you think of my observations?

Read more at: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/

Photos courtesy of http://supernaturalfansonline.com/gallery/

Comments  

ZakhHelen
# ZakhHelen 2016-02-18 19:45
Soory, but Dean isn't a soldier, he is a tactician... ))
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2016-02-18 21:14
I will agree with you this was a visually stunning episode. I followed along with Robert Berens tweets last night as well as yours and he talked about the historical accuracy of the submarine and it's crew. This turned out to be a very complex script as well as a highly entertaining one. Your threads review really helps me get my head around all that happened last night. I can't even begin to work it out yet. All I know is that I can't wait for the next episode. This season the excitement level is defcon 5.

Everyone brought their A game again. The writing, directing, editing, set designs, the musical score...it was like watching a movie. The guest stars and our hero's were all fantastic. I think Crowley is playing Lucifer a little. Mark S gave a few little sideways glances that hinted he is still trying to manipulate the situation. Misha's Lustifer, Casifer, Luciel was better...he is starting to find a better rhythm between menace, snark and Castiel. Of course Jensen and Jared were outstanding as usual. I love Sam the nerd and I love that this season Sam gets to show off how smart he is. Jensen was fantastic in the final scene. Contemplating the sacrifice of all on board the sub and his dismay at Castiel's reckless decision.

This season's pacing is so fast at times (still waiting on Dean/Amara to become clearer. Although it may not be wrapped up this season). I have a feeling the cliffhanger is going to be one of the biggest heart wrenchers ever.
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-19 03:07
Ohhhh Cheryl Nooooooooo might heart will shatter :(:(:(:(:(:(:o: o:o:o
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-18 21:50
I don't have big descriptive words to explain myself and as has been said on other pages this epi. and S11 has blown me away. My partner walked into the room when we got the first shot of the submarine and that thunderstorm and said "Are you watching a War Movie" I said no Supernatural He was amazed and dumb struck.
We have talked alot about the reconnection of the brothers and their maturity this season, I feel the whole show everybody has matured this season They have done and always do a FANTASTIC job but the sets, visuaiization, right down to the smallest detail is not overlooked. As for "The Vessel" I have watched it twice and I am so enthralled I still can't pick up little threads to the story arch

1. Maybe the incredible Thunderstorm that loomed over the sea in the first shot of the sub, could have some forebiding

2. Dean said he was a "witness" just a bystander. Watching this incredible sacrifice unfold.

3. This is probably going to sound topsy turvy. --------- Sam during his reading of history and lore gave in great detail the name of the sub, the german boat that shot it down The when and the how
Beautiful Delphine used the hand of god to destroy the German boat and sadly sacrifice herself and the sub. Cas/Lucy saved Dean, then the hand of god was useless.
I can't stop wondering did this part of history happen because Dean went back to retreive the "Hand of god" Would Delphine have used this relic to try and save the sub in the first place --- or was this already history and Dean just popped in to fetch the relic ????
4, If this is only a small portion of "The Ark of The Covenant" I dare say it would only have enough juice for one use. But there is hope of other peices out there.
5. Not killing Delphine reminded me of Dean not wanting to kill Amara. I think Amara's spell ? or influence on Dean is way deeper than we first thought
6. Sam said that the German War boat was found But the sub the "Bluefin" never was Is there something to this Was there some kind of Devine intervention ??
CyanaT
# CyanaT 2016-02-19 17:05
Quote:
can't stop wondering did this part of history happen because Dean went back to retreive the "Hand of god" Would Delphine have used this relic to try and save the sub in the first place --- or was this already history and Dean just popped in to fetch the relic ????
Had a similar thought; this isn't the first time Dean has been helpless to change history and been forced to witness tragic events. I think Dean's ultimate purpose was to bring the 'spent' Hand of God back, and for Lucifer to be unable to use it. My line of thought is this - if the 'H o G' could be used multiple times even if Lucifer had managed to defeat Amara by himself what would stop him rom using again to destroy humanity? Not to get overly religious here, but I think 'God' has been watching from a distance.

I also think - like Nightsky - that Sam's research, Lucifer's/Castiel's admissions, and Dean's witnessing the tragic usage of the unique sigils - will play a role in seeking out more 'God-touched' objects andperforming more practical applications of the boys' knowledge (like warding the Bunker).

Quote:
6. Sam said that the German War boat was found But the sub the "Bluefin" never was Is there something to this Was there some kind of Devine intervention ??

My best guess is that the 'BlueFin' was vaporized by the Power of God after starting the fire on the German Warship, killing the Nazi Necromancers and blowing a huge hole resulting in the warship's sinking .
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-21 23:20
Thank you Cyanna :):):)
BookLady
# BookLady 2016-02-18 21:56
You forgot to address the power of caffeine :) Poor Dean!
nightsky
# nightsky 2016-02-18 23:23
Excellent point! So important to power up in the a.m.!
Didi
# Didi 2016-02-18 23:41
Overall I enjoyed this ep. There are certain elements I have mixed feelings about.

1. I'm not as crazy about the Das Boot portion of the ep as everyone else. I think that mostly stems from the fact that I'm not used to seeing Dean in more of a witness role, as opposed to active participant role. I'm glad others enjoyed this part though.

2. While I'm thrilled that Sam is being portrayed as the smart man he is, I think Dean is being written as a little too vapid. Case in point: Sam makes reference to Jules Verne; Dean replies who? C'mon. My 9 year old nephew knows who Jules Verne is. Can both brothers be smart at the same time?

3. This is me nit picking, I know, but the song "non je ne regrette rien" was sung by Edith Piaf circa 1960. Given that the time travel portion was set in 1943, I think they should have chosen a song from the WWII era.

I do have some issues about the angel possession, expulsion, one true vessel thing. I can't tell the difference between what's canon and retcon anymore. Folks on this site have tried so hard to explain it to me, but I'm still confused. I'm hoping that show figures out a way to clarify this at some point in the future. I think Dean might be confused about it too, given his reaction to Casifer in the closing scene - cause it's confusing.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-19 03:47
The "Who?" was adlibbed by Jensen. Can't blame that one on Berens. So who's going to be the first one to volunteer to tell the man who has portrayed Dean for the past eleventy years that he was wrong playing it so vapidly? Maybe he was just playing Dean preoccupied and aggravated over Sam's questioning his going without him? Not really paying attention. Who knows why he said it. His call, not mine. Maybe there was some dialogue in a scene that was edited out? Maybe he hates Jules Verne? ;)

Berens also stated in response to the criticism over the song choice that it was never actually in or part of a scene. So even though it wasn't around during the time period shown it wasn't inappropriate.
Didi
# Didi 2016-02-19 04:03
Lol. AlyCat, thanks for setting me straight. I did not know about Jensen adlibbing. I need to rewatch the ep now.

Hey Jensen, stop dumbing Dean down. Sam is not the only smart hunter in town. Ok dude? There I said it. :)
nightsky
# nightsky 2016-02-19 12:39
I didn't know that either. I love it when they adlib. I actually thought that line was hilarious and lightened the mood (I WAS surprised that Dean wouldn't know Verne though. Doesn't everyone?)
nightsky
# nightsky 2016-02-19 12:40
Bardicvoice was bothered by the use of that song too. Someone ask Lennertz/Gruska about it on Twitter. They sometimes answer. I thought it just generally fit the mood.
Taraneh
# Taraneh 2016-02-19 02:49
Hi Nightsky!
Thanks for your article,you said everything really good and I'm generally agree with you. But there's something I'd like to add!
Dean's hesitation in killing Delphine, wasn't really unexpected for me!it's true that Dean only knew her and the whole crew for a very short time,but every time the Winchesters save someone or sacrifice themselves for someone (like Dean himself in the last episode for Melissa) they don't know them that much!
I know Delphine was destined to die,but that doesn't make Dean's heart and kindness to ignore his instinct to save people! He was willing to "sacrifice" himself and the weapon to save those people (that he didn't even meet) to do the right thing at the moment, to save all those people from sacrificing themselves!it's his bravery and big heart that leads him to do this,to save anyone he can ,not only Sam!I think if Sam was there instead of Dean,he would have hesitated in killing Delphine too, like he didn't want to kill baby Amara's father and was willing to let him die himself(I know it's a whole different situation,but still)
So all in all,I'm not saying what Dean did was perfect, but I'm trying to say that in my opinion, I don't think his way of acting and decision making , his instinct to save and his inner conscience is irrational, sure Dean most of the times listens to his heart,but it's who he is ;)
Thanks again!!!I'm waiting for your threads every week!
nightsky
# nightsky 2016-02-19 12:44
You make a good point about Dean.
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-19 04:50
A thought on the final scene with Dean & his deep concern for Cas and how he couldn't believe Cas could except Lucifer to take over his vessel. This would be so devastating for Dean because of the last time Cas did something sooooooooo stupid was when he took in all the souls from purgatory, and trusted Crowley more than Dean in S6-S7. " Meet the new Boss " Dean had probably hoped Cas had learnt his lesson.
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2016-02-19 10:36
We all did. I really wanted them to allow Sam to be angry about Castiel basically making his incredible sacrifice pointless. Sam is in the running for sainthood now. Don't get me wrong, I love that Sam is so wonderful, be he should be allowed to be human.

And Dean did a complete 180 with his attitude. Any other season, he would have been pissed at Cas for being so stupid, but instead, he didn't even believe Sam that he chose it. Umm......
sid
# sid 2016-02-19 07:08
Hi there thanks for your review

I don't agree with the idea that Lucifer is 'needed' to defeat Amara but that there is a lot more to the story about what happened when Lucifer faced her last time than we know. i.e. Michael did most of the dirty work at beating her down and Lucifer stepped in at the last minute to deal the blow that imprisoned her so causing him to get the mark. I say that as from what you saw of the mark, Michael would have been a better candidate to have it than Lucifer as he may be a self righteous prick but if God told him to hop on one leg until the end of time, he would. Which would mean if God told him not to go on a murderous rampage due to the mark, Michael would sit in the corner doing finger painting rather than commit genocide.

What is definite is that Lucifer is the strongest player on the board if they are going to take the fight to her in a head on clash, and he is going to have to deliver on his promise to deal with her to keep his position in hell as the demons didn't look happy with his leadership style of not being bothered, which will probably lead to his downfall as his pride and arrogance means he doesn't care or he wants to control those he will need to work with rather than work with them.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-19 08:14
I think that Deans "No way" comment was more in response to Sam stating that Cas may not come back willingly not that he couldn't believe Cas allowed Lucifer to take possession of his vessel in the first place.

On my fourth rewatch I realized something else. What a great job they did with the supporting actors. All of them. Petey, Delphine, the Commander and his Second in charge, the sonar guy, the crew, the Nazi... all of them. No one was a caricature or over the top as Supernatural at times is won't to do. Well cast. Very believable. Very well done.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2016-02-19 10:33
Nice Threads article, Nightsky. This was an fast paced, intense episode. A couple of thoughts -

Not sure I agree that Lucifer is needed to stop Amara; of all the active players on the board, he would have the best shot at it but, as Crowley told Casifer, you would have made your move already if you knew you could take her out. So Casifer isn't going to make a move until he's sure he can defeat her. Slightly different than the end of Season 9, where MoC Dean thought he could take out Metatron by himself. Another similarity is that Metatron was also drawing God-like power from the angel tablet, the word of God.

After Dean's conversation with Sam about the affect Amara has on him, he has already started deferring to Sam; never would have asked permission to try to retrieve the Hand of God before; he would have just gone. I think that's part of why Dean was so rattled at the end of the episode; he normally leads the charge but has to take a back seat, be a witness this time.

The hints that Castiel wasn't himself were being dropped like anvils; Sam was distracted by his efforts to get Dean back but he's not that stupid. Likewise with Dean's asking who Jules Verne was; we know he's read Vonnegut and is not that dumb.

Delphine's statement about the sigil - "It's spell-bound -- to my blood, my heart. Its power lives and dies with me." is interesting; maybe some parallels to Dean's link to Amara. Is Dean the key to defeating The Darkness/Amara?

It's the time of the season where fans start speculating as to who will die this season. Killing Sam or Dean would be "final" because Billie has threatened to throw them in to the big empty. Other than killing God, I think Amara killing Lucifer would have the biggest shock value and would definitely get God's attention.
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2016-02-19 10:49
I'm thinking if Sam and Dean sacrifice themselves together and Billie sends them to the empty, Chuck/God might take notice of that too.
E
# E 2016-02-19 16:54
Have we had en episode were BOTH brothers were dead at the end of the season......? Could they go there? ****SPOILER**** *******>Rob is coming back, maybe he's there to "fix" things?
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2016-02-19 18:16
That was my thought. I think both of them going out together would be a first and I could see them doing it in the theme of the season.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2016-02-19 19:39
Spoiler tag would be nice :o
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-02-19 16:33
njspnfan, I hadn't thought about it, but why wouldn't the remaining tablets offer that same power to whatever angel possesses them? Of course, by this point I've lost all track of who has what tablet. Maybe the difference would be that God never actually touched the tablets, he merely dictated them to Metatron. Although you'd think God would have proofread such important documents!:) And even if not as powerful as something touched by God, that tablet really did make Metatron God-like. Maybe that's how Metatron comes back in play this season- the brothers seek him out to determine how the tablets might be used to defeat Amara.
nightsky
# nightsky 2016-02-19 12:38
Thoughts 24 hours later:

Power switches were prevalent throughout the ep as
- "King" Crowley lost his power, becoming the lowest in the court when Lucifer took the throne.
- Castiel took control away from Lucifer, even though Cas is not as powerful an angel
- Delphine took control from the German, even though France was occupied and she was his subservient mistress
- Delphine again took control/advanta ge away from the German surface ship when she used the power of God to destroy them (even though they succeeded in killing the submariners).
There was even more to this theme than I gathered in just 1 rewatch...
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2016-02-19 15:26
After watching the episode Baby, I'd posted my thoughts in which I had noted my belief that the vision Sam received from Not John was from either an emissary of God (like Chuck if he's not God himself) or Gabriel. I still hold true to that belief after watching The Vessel. Luciifer has made it his mission to have everyone believe that he is the only one who can stop Amara. He told Sam that all his visions were from him, to lead Sam to the only chance humanity has against the Darkness. He's even managed to convince Cas. Yet, the vision in Baby specifically told Sam that the only ones who can stop the Darkness were them....Sam and Dean. So if Lucifer truly sent Sam the visions, why would Lucifer warn Sam that it isn't in fact he who is there only hope, but that they themselves are the only hope. It's because Luci never sent the vision in Baby. Someone else did though. So I decided to Wiki the Hand of God and I copied it's definition:

The Hand of God, or Manus Dei in Latin, also known as Dextera domini/dei, the "right hand of God", is a motif in Jewish and Christian art, especially of the Late Antique and Early Medieval periods, when depiction of Jehovah or God the Father as a full human figure was considered unacceptable. The hand, sometimes including a portion of an arm, or ending about the wrist, is used to indicate the intervention in or approval of affairs on Earth by God, and sometimes as a subject in itself. It is an artistic metaphor that is generally not intended to indicate that a hand was physically present or seen at any subject depicted. The Hand is seen appearing from above in a fairly restricted number of narrative contexts, often in a blessing gesture (in Christian examples), but sometimes performing an action. In later Christian works it tends to be replaced by a fully realized figure of God the Father, whose depiction had become acceptable in Western Christianity, although not in Eastern Orthodox or Jewish art.[1] Though the hand of God has traditionally been understood as a symbol for God's intervention or approval of human affairs, it is also possible that the hand of God reflects the anthropomorphic conceptions of the deity which may have persisted in late antiquity.[2]

.There are numerous references to the hand, or arm, of God in the Hebrew Bible, some clearly metaphorical in the way that remains current in modern English, but others capable of a literal interpretation. [7] They are usually distinguished from references to a placement at the right hand of God. There are three occasions in the gospels when the voice of God is heard, and the hand often represents this in visual art.[8] Gertrud Schiller distinguishes three functions of the hand in Christian art: as symbol of either God's presence or the voice of God, or signifying God's acceptance of a sacrifice.[9]




I had started to wonder if the Hand of God might not necessarily be an object, and perhaps it was more metaphorical, which is why I looked up the Hand of God in the first place. I recalled back in s5 the angels all searching for the Michael Sword and it had been assumed it was an object. In reality, Dean was the Michael Sword. So I began to think about Sam discovering the Hand of God and wondered if it wasn't that Dean was meant to find an object, but more that he was meant to witness the power and thus the presence of God. I watched again to see if there is validity to my thoughts. I kind of think there is, but you all can decide if I'm on the right track or off my nut. When Sam first learned of the wreckage, the Hand of God was simply sunken treasure destroyed when the sub was downed by the Germans. Dean arrives on board, tells Delphine, a WOL, who he is and why he's there. She believes Dean and thus history changes. The ship still goes down of course, but not in the way it went down originally. The ship went down this time due to a sacrifice. Delphine used the Hand of God and it was God's power in the object that took the ship down. Dean was there to witness this act. I'm not referring to the act of sacrifice though. I think Dean was meant to witness God's power. His presence. His existence.



Amara's attraction to Dean might be in part due to the fact that he bore the mark, but let us remember why Dean was considered worthy of the Mark by Cain. Dean has a darkness within. He's not only noted it himself, but unfortunately Dean believes that's who he is, someone you don't want at your dinner table. He liked when he tortured in hell, he liked and found peace in Purgatory. Dean as a demon went on and on telling Sam he liked the Disease, he didn't want to be cured. Cas himself noted that the burden of guilt Dean feels for having these dark feelings disappeared when Dean was a demon, it was easier. I think some of Dean's darkness can be attributed to not only the horrors in his life, and what was taken from him, but by the one he considers responsible. God. Dean has always been shown to have angry feelings when it comes to God. He certainly doesn't believe God cares. It's my opinion that his anger towards God, attributes to that darkness within and this is the very darkness which Amara is attracted to. Amara's got a bee in her bonnet regarding God and Dean does as well. I think it could be part of the reason she feels as though he and her will be one, because they share the same feelings regarding God. If Dean is going to be able to break the hold Amara claims to have on him, then he's going to have to let the light in his heart. I think Dean was on that ship to be a witness to God's actual presence. I think it's very possible that Dean's trip to the past was necessary to save the future.



I don't believe that Lucifer is the answer to the Amara problem. I believe the only ones who can stop Amara are Sam and Dean. Now whether Lucifer is intentionally lying to everyone so he could obtain his freedom, or if he's that egomaniacal that he's convinced himself that he's the only one who can stop Amara, I think it's pretty clear he's wrong. Lucifer collected all the weapons in his crypts and still they are no match for Amara. He seems to have forgotten, though Sam reminded him, that it took Lucifer and four archangels to stop Amara and God himself. It was sad to see once again Dean's reaction to Cas not trusting in team free will and choosing to trust the Devil himself as he once chose to trust working with the King of Hell. Did Cas forget what happened as a result? Does Cas honestly believe putting humanity in the hands of the Devil is the answer? I fear that once again Cas had made a serious error in judgment. I only hope he comes to realize this before it's too late.
nightsky
# nightsky 2016-02-19 21:03
Quote:
If Dean is going to be able to break the hold Amara claims to have on him, then he's going to have to let the light in his heart. I think Dean was on that ship to be a witness to God's actual presence. I think it's very possible that Dean's trip to the past was necessary to save the future.
I like this argument very much. It is consistent with the gravity of Dean's emotions at the end of his ordeal.
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-21 06:45
I don't wish to take anything away from Sugerhi but her comment is similar to other comments I have made throughout this season And I totally agree with her. Dean's only problem has been in his belief in god, What if this epi was a wake up call for Dean. Dean is a black/white man --- evil/see it/kill it sadly Dean needed some sort of proof something black/white to get his faith back in god this would have done it and could have been the cause of his deep reflection at the end. He knows he can handle the Cas/Lucifer situation. he's come to terms with his connection to Amara, But God what a whack in the face this scenaro would have been. Sam has had great growth this season, Dean needs to look beyond his comfort zone, I believe we will be seeing a different Dean in coming episodes.

I also thought that Dean would have changed the circumstances of how the sub went down, but girls I need a answer or thoughts on something I thought strange.

Sacrifice and HOG is what destroyed the sub and german ship ------- German ship wrekage was found ----- SUB WREKAGE NEVER WAS ----- WHY ??? --- is there something to this. Sam read it out from the history bk and said it again at the end when Dean asked about the german boat. Did the HOG have some devine intervention in this. Where did it go So totally destroyed that there was nothing left ??

In Bits and Pieces this wk there is a interveiw with J & J they asked Jensen about demon Dean, and the clensing that Sam put him through and Dean's anger at the end of S10. Part of Jensen's answer was interesting. He believes that Dean still carries a small amount of his twisted soul ???
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2016-02-21 08:33
I've actually believed God has always been around and never quite jumped on the angelic bandwagon that God skipped town. I've always believed he aided the boys when they really needed it. I do think that God's presence is more obvious when the boys have dealt with end of the world situations. We've heard Joshua flat out tell the boys of the couple of instances God had saved their lives. Then of course we have Chuck, at the end of Swan Song, but who's been there throughout the coming Apocalypse, symbolizing the presence of God all along, even possibly being God himself. Then we get to the entire MOC storyline and Dean becoming a demon and the venture to cure him from it. This of course all leading up to the release of the D, another end of the world/humanity situation....an d lo and behold, out of nowhere and for really no apparent reason, we have the return of Chuck....our prophet/God? who simply tells the girls that her version of the boys life...is not bad. Is that the only reason we saw Chuck in S10? or is Chuck representative once again, that God isn't as far off as believed. End of world situation again and now we get another visit from our beloved prophet.....I never believed in coincidences on this show and still don't.....and I still think God had a hand in giving Benny the lo down on getting Dean out of hell as well as dear dead don's return just as Sam was coming to terms with him running from his life and Dean's escape.....yeah , not suspicious at all. ;)
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2016-02-21 11:01
damn double post.....sorry about that. :)
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-21 23:24
Sugerhi You just wanted to make sure I read your reply HAHAAAAA Thank you we seem to have much the same thoughts this season. Thats nice :D:D:D
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2016-02-21 08:33
I've actually believed God has always been around and never quite jumped on the angelic bandwagon that God skipped town. I've always believed he aided the boys when they really needed it. I do think that God's presence is more obvious when the boys have dealt with end of the world situations. We've heard Joshua flat out tell the boys of the couple of instances God had saved their lives. Then of course we have Chuck, at the end of Swan Song, but who's been there throughout the coming Apocalypse, symbolizing the presence of God all along, even possibly being God himself. Then we get to the entire MOC storyline and Dean becoming a demon and the venture to cure him from it. This of course all leading up to the release of the D, another end of the world/humanity situation....an d lo and behold, out of nowhere and for really no apparent reason, we have the return of Chuck....our prophet/God? who simply tells the girls that her version of the boys life...is not bad. Is that the only reason we saw Chuck in S10? or is Chuck representative once again, that God isn't as far off as believed. End of world situation again and now we get another visit from our beloved prophet.....I never believed in coincidences on this show and still don't.....and I still think God had a hand in giving Benny the lo down on getting Dean out of hell as well as dear dead don's return just as Sam was coming to terms with him running from his life and Dean's escape.....yeah , not suspicious at all. ;)
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-24 06:23
Didn't think of that - so you think God is a constant presence in their lives ? mmmm interesting. So your suggesting like in S1Ep1 when Sam was ready to settle down get married be a lawyer and yellow eyes changed all that by burning poor Jessica on the ceiling that yet again Sam was ready to give it all up and settle down that God this time step in and changed everything by bringing Don back and helping Benny get Dean out of purgatory That sheds a interesting light on things ?? So The Boys are really meant to be hunters & brothers to Save the World
And another apocalypic event and Chuck's back maybe he just wont's to finish writing his books. Lot more chapters to add LOL :):):):):)
JJA
# JJA 2016-02-19 15:57
Visually, YES, the episode was stunning. I don't think anyone can dispute that. I also liked the return of the Thule Society of Nazi occultists, and how it touched upon the Nazi obsession with ancient artifacts. Plus, the girl who played Delphine was beautiful.

Otherwise, the episode was a massive letdown. The Sam/Lucifer moments were just ridiculous. Sam came off as being a complete idiot, and Castiel even more so for making an agreement with Lucifer. The Dean story on board the submarine was far too quick, and really not all that interesting. He basically shows up on the submarine, and has some dull conversations with the other people stuck on there. No big revelations, or anything all that surprising happening.

Overall, I would rate the episode a "B-". It gets a few points for the visuals, but the story/dialogue was very lacking.
nightsky
# nightsky 2016-02-19 21:05
A B- is still a good grade! Have you ever read Alice's grades when she doesn't like an ep??:o
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2016-02-21 05:21
I haven't been thinking a lot how this season will end maybe because most of all I can't guess how it goes or I have a lot of other stuff going on meanwhile. The Vessel though made me think a lot what could happen. Will we get more more items touched by God and having his power? Will Dean end up using them? In the bunker is the spear of Destiny that might be one to use but I am more thinking about an item that has gone missing supposedly and would shine in the presence of God. What if someone from the past (if Sam doesn't have it) would bring the item back and all what it stands for will help Sam and Dean win against Amara. I don't believe we will see God BUT maybe his power will be present to help in the fight. To make Dean have faith again. I know a character that is returning so that return might be connected to this.

Also how Dean is acting now. What if he will finally choose to use Michael and say yes to him? Then Amara couldn't influence Dean as Michael is in charge? I don't trust Lucifer when he was telling Michael was a blabbering mess in the cage. But this way Dean could be part of the fight. Though the brothers doing it on their own... That is my wish too. Using Supernatural ways never end up well. Most of all Making Dean and Sam matter in the outcome and showing they are special would be great. But I fear on what direction we are heading. What if in the end and with their combined power both will die and they are tossed in the empty? What if that will be the cliffhanger? Also I fear for Cas that he will not survive either from Lucifer. We might get to see Billie again but even if I truly adore her character it creeps me out because of why she would be back. Maybe they will torture us and will not tell us the show will be renewed before the autumn while they end it up to that cliffhanger. Who knows...

Also, we have heard the sound of train in many episodes. Is it an omen that they are heading to a train wreck? Or that they are in a crossroad?

Quote:
A train horn is an air horn which serves as an audible warning device on diesel and electric locomotives. Its primary purpose is to alert persons and animals to the presence of a train so they can clear the tracks, especially when approaching a grade crossing. They are also used for acknowledging signals given by railroad employees (i.e. duringswitching operations).

Using trains as a symbol is present in literary history. It has been used as a place where people accidentally meet, go their separate ways, take the time to think, work on something, and even as a place of rest and relaxation. There are plenty of examples of this concept in literature.

The symbols of trains are not always positive, however. In early-mid Victorian England, the railroad appears in a lot of fiction during the time because its existence was driven by major social change. Aside from their plot devices, themes were present in the literature discussing damaging consequences on the city, ruining the landscape, and it being associated with gluttony, dishonesty, fraud and the Railroad Mania. An example of this is in Elizabeth Gaskell's Cranford, in which the social upheaval is caused by creation of a railroad.

Trains may be instruments of fate such as in Tolstoj's Anna Karenina, in which disastrous train accidents foretell the doomed heroine's plot. Other examples include Nesbit's The Railway Children, Dickens' The Signalman, Emile Zola's La Bete Humaine, a psychological murder thriller set again the backdrop of the Paris-Le Havre railway, and Christie's Murder on the Orient Express.
On my own behalf if God makes his appearance I would like him to grant Sam and Dean five wishes. Five people they want to join the fight even if they are dead. (Getting some fan favorites alive with this way) My choices would be Bobby, Gabriel, Charlie, Gadreel and Death. Wishful thinking, I know but this group would be bad-ass. ;)

- Lilah
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-21 06:53
Hey Lilah at the recent con Jared was asked what was in the memory box. He metioned the Amulet but it wasn't the real one, Jared said the original one may return ?? That shines in the presence of god
Also the train whistles they stopped once Lucy caged Sam again and it went queit for a couple of epi's. They are now back Could this mean something BIG is coming
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2016-02-21 09:42
I would say that we have something big coming and we might not survive it. ;)

- Lilah
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2016-02-21 10:59
you know i'd like to think that the amulet could play a part, that it as well was touched by the hand of God. If Chuck is revealed to be God, then perhaps the reason it never glowed when Dean was around Chuck is because of Dean's attitude towards God. Maybe faith is required. It makes me wonder, had Sam worn the amulet would it have glowed around Chuck? I'm kind of leaning in the direction that the way for Dean to overcome Amara's hold, is by having faith. Faith is a strong motivator. Just having it can actually drive one to will themselves to do something. Dean seems to be lacking in this area....especia lly faith in himself. Maybe the HOG is a metaphor....for faith. ;)
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2016-02-21 14:14
Yeah, what Jared said seems to indicate we will get that precious item back and I think if it comes the impact will be huge. Maybe Sam hands it again to Dean and it shines? It would be lovely. (Not meaning Dean is God of course!) :D

- Lilah
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-22 05:58
I don't know about you Lilah and if you don't agree I apologize, but the whole Dean is Christ/God thing? I so do not want. I like my Winchesters human. Well, human-ish. ;) If they go that direction it will so change the whole premise of the series starting from the beginning. At that point they might as well throw in the Dallas shower scene as well. And for the people I have read who have favorited Dean as the Christ figure how are they going to pull that off so it makes any sense. Fans cant even grasp the concept that Dean killing Death did not release the Darkness, I'm not so sure they would be able to follow such a complex character aspect. I like that Dean and Sam are special and extraordinary but still human.
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2016-02-22 12:13
Oh no, I like them being human as well to win against TD. Even though I have a soft spot for Michael!Dean. Don't want the boys to turn into saints because they are not that. Humans are flawed or they would not be humans. :)

- Lilah
Didi
# Didi 2016-02-22 13:01
Oh AlyCat, I really hope TPTB don't go there. Dean as the Christ figure is completely inconceivable to me. It wouldn't be Supernatural anymore. It would be an entirely different show.

I miss the good old days when they hunted Wendigos, scammed credit cards, and lived in seedy motel rooms. This season also reminded me how much I've missed the banter, practical jokes, and comraderie between the brothers. How can Dean continue to be a hunter side by side with his brother if he's presented as an immortal being? Please no.
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-21 23:25
Worried :o:o:o:o:o:o
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-21 08:20
Maybe it's a Soullllll Train! Ha! God riding in on the Soul Train.
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2016-02-21 09:44
That sounds terribly dangerous. :D

- Lilah
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2016-02-23 09:39
I was just wondering....Cr owley had some alone time with Rowena when she had that Witch Hunter thing around her neck and she was forced to do as Crowley wished. She was also, as we saw before she got snuffed, forced to tell Crowley the truth....Do you suppose that Crowley might've asked Rowena for the spell to send Luci back to the cage when he had the chance? Rowena told Luci she was the only one, but she didn't have the neck thing on at the time...and I don't see Rowena dumb enough to reveal that someone else knew how to get Luci back in the cage, for her own personal reasons....So maybe doggie Crowley is just biding his time....maybe he's waiting for his chance...and even though a spell is necessary to get luci back, perhaps Crowley still needs the Winchesters. Just a thought.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-02-24 04:01
Oooh! Interesting thought. They could always go there couldn't they? Good catch Sugarhi!!!
Jen
# Jen 2016-02-24 06:27
Don't mean to be a downer because thats a good thought. The trouble is that spell only worked if Lucy wasn't in a vessel and bound to earth, although Cas could eject him then Crowley could send him back. Is Crowley strong enough a witch or will we see the return of the Hampster ??