Tonight’s episode titled “Plush” was written by Eric Charmelo and Nicole Snyder (aka Snarmelo!). This episode sees the reappearance of Sheriff Donna and she has a case for the boys.

The cold open includes a married couple. The wife asks the husband to take out the trash but he’s too busy watching a game in overtime. She takes it out and the next thing we see is a large Bunny-headed man killing the husband.

Dean finds Sam praying to God. They argue about Sam praying. Dean doesn’t want Sam relying on God. They have documents and other periphenalia that Castiel got from Gaza about the lore. They are interrupted by a phone call from Sheriff Donna and the case of the Killer Bunny!

They have the Bunny in custody and can’t get the head off. Officer Stover, who seems to have a crush on Donna, is the lead on the case. Sam and Dean go in to see the rather bloodied up Bunny. Dean makes a series of bad puns. But it’s Dean so I smiled. Sam makes a really bad pun and the Bunny tries to choke Dean. They see he has a tattoo, “Kylie Forever,” and a Minnesota Tech shirt. They track down Kylie and find that he’s her boyfriend, Mike. Mike got the bunny mask at a thrift store. Once he put the mask on something happened.

Back at the jail, Donna and Stover are taking the Bunny to the hospital. Donna tries to prove she can lift the Bunny’s body by herself, but the dead weight is too heavy. They get distracted and the Bunny attacks. Stover shoots him and the bunny mask comes off, leaving the young Mike dead. The boys and Donna burn the mask in a secluded wood.

In a gym, a young athlete is working out. After his coach leaves the room, a harlequin shows up and attacks the coach with a weight. The athlete tackles him.

Back at the police station, Sam, Dean, and Donna interview the athlete, Brock Buckner, who tackled the school’s mascot, a harlequin. At this point, Bookdal was creeped out and had to take a breath. The boys figure it’s ghost possession of masks. Dean shoots the jester with a salt round and the ghost leaves her body. They question her and find out the costume was donated. They visit the home of the woman who donated it. Donna takes the kid out to see the police car while the boys interview the mother. The costumes belonged to her brother, a kid performer, who committed suicide. They try to track down the costumes she donated to track down the possible ghost. Since he was cremated, they need to find all the costumes and burn them.

Donna and Doug are tasked with collecting the costumes. They all separate for the investigation. We see a clown in a hospital room over the coach. The clown slits the coach’s throat.

Sam gets on the elevator with the clown. Poor Sammy! He finally gets the scalpel away from the clown and the spirit leaves the body; Sam takes the mask off and it’s an old man who had been playing dress up with his grandson. Donna and Stover go back and forth and Sam tries to play matchmaker when Donna tells him to mind his own beeswax. Dean visits the wife of the first victim. Apparently the coach and the first victim knew Chester, who they accused of molesting their kids. They had confronted Chester about it but Rita was there first. Chester killed himself before they could confront them. Dean goes to Rita’s and the kid says that the men lied about his uncle. They question if Chester actually killed himself. Rita admits that she was fearful that Chester might have been too close to her son. Rita says that she told Stan and the coach where Chester was working and they confronted him. The two men hang Chester over the edge of a bridge. Chester struggles and ends up falling to his death. They covered up the death.

Donna calls and says they are burning all the costumes but they don’t have the deerhead Chester had when he died. Back in the living room we see that Max, the son, has shown up with the head on. He pushes Sam down and turns toward Rita. Max attacks Rita, but Dean touches him with the (iron) knife and the ghost exits the boy’s body. Dean puts Rita and Max in the salt circle. Sam is about to burn the head, but Chester stops him. Chester's ghost goes in the house and is about to kill Dean when Sam finally sets the deer head on fire, killing Chester’s vengeful spirit.

The final sequence focuses on Donna and the boys. The boys tell her she’s a hunter, what with three cases under her belt. Donna apologizes to Stover for being harsh; he says they all have baggage. Back in the car, Sam and Dean discuss Sam’s visions. Sam finally admits that he’s seeing the cage and wonders if he needs to go back to find the answer to defeating the Darkness. Dean says no, they are not going down that path again. Sam agrees with an okay, but one has to wonder if he really agrees. The episode ends on their profiles.

Thoughts, questions, speculations.

1. That was a fun MOTW, right? I really enjoyed it.

2. What do you think of the convo at the end? Do you think Sam will go back to the Cage?

3. Welcome back to Sheriff Donna! Poor Stover was trying so hard.

4. Okay, masks freak me out so I was like NOPE through most of this episode.

5. What other things do you find compelling about the episode?

Share your thoughts, feelings, et ceteras, below!

 

 

Comments  

Alice
# Alice 2015-11-18 22:49
Um, how do I put this tactfully...Tha t blew chunks. Charmelo and Snyder MUST be banned from writing ghost stories. Paint by numbers, sluggish pacing, long expositional scenes of the weeping family member that makes me want to hurl, crappy dialogue...Give them a meaty demon or even witch story. Anything that makes them stretch their predictable plotting.
Russ
# Russ 2015-11-19 03:37
You are wrong! I know I shouldn't say that to the one and only Alice, but I felt a little cheeky.

:)

However, my initial reaction after first watch = This was the best MOTW episode since S6 began.
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-11-19 04:36
Yay! Samesies. I thought I was doing a cardinal sin for thinking this episode wasn't that bad. :D

- Lilah
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-19 08:48
I agree! This episode was a real treat! A real throw back straight forward Sam and Dean ghost story. I enjoyed it immensely.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-19 18:22
Count me in Russ! I agree with your assessment!
Alice
# Alice 2015-11-19 22:23
To give you the benefit of the doubt Russ, since you are usually right, I watched the episode again. My verdict...

It still sucks. Thanks of playing though! :)
Russ
# Russ 2015-11-19 23:04
I'm about to give it the 2nd viewing.

I will be honest, I was somewhat inebriated when I watched it last night. (Thursday is the start of the drinking week). Will see if it holds up when viewed sober.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-11-18 23:28
1. That was a fun MOTW, right? I really enjoyed it. It was nice to see a good old fashioned ghost at least.

2. What do you think of the convo at the end? Do you think Sam will go back to the Cage? I think Sam may go back to the Cage briefly, if only to talk to either Michael or Lucifer. I wish Dean would stop dismissing Sam's thoughts and ideas. He gets mad if Sam doesn't tell him every detail, then tells Sam that what he's doing is either wrong, or stupid, not a way to encourage honest communication.

3. Welcome back to Sheriff Donna! Poor Stover was trying so hard. I like Donna. I could have done without the hint that the guy was Interested in Donna in a romantic sense. It didn't go anywhere and didn't add anything, IMHO.

4. Okay, masks freak me out so I was like NOPE through most of this episode. The masks were very creepy. I thought the harlequin was creepiest, because it wasn't as comical as the others.

5. What other things do you find compelling about the episode?
I liked Sam being honest with Dean. I liked Donna standing up for herself.

I have real mixed feelings about this one. It was kind of great to go back to basics with a ghost story. OTOH, I really wish they hadn't delved into pedophilia here. The nephew said the victims were lying, but they wouldn't have been the ones lying, it was the kids. They tried to have the ghost be innocent, because they didn't want to go any farther with the theme, but it just left it a mess. I was also unhappy with Dean's chastising Sam for praying to God. Dean doesn't believe in God, which is fine. Sam has never asked him to believe. But to try to take away whatever Sam is getting from his prayers just rubs me the wrong way. After a string of really good episodes this was a let down.
Jamie
# Jamie 2015-11-18 23:38
I know they can't all be The French Mistake, but did we really need another Mannequin 3?
Alice
# Alice 2015-11-18 23:55
I know, right?
Jen
# Jen 2015-11-19 00:26
My comment deleted and revised
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-11-19 03:42
This was an ok episode. I liked them showing that Cas has searched every old text that predates with their story the old testament. The mytharc was also present in this episode so + from me. The music was very creepy and poor Sam that got stuck in an elevator with his biggest fear. But he conquered it. That and others gave good humor on the episode. Also, if I was stuck in the elevator with a giant spider I would literally try to bust out of the place. I have no trouble with painful matters and the writers tackling pedophilia took courage. Luckily, it wasn't true this time. If people want rainbows and butterflies, well, Supernatural is luckily not it.

The Supernatural world is a tough place and like Dean said it. Monsters he gets, but people are crazy and sometimes way way uglier than monsters. If those hard matters are not confronted and talked people might think they don't exist. At least for myself I tackle the problems head on. Supernatural has tackled some painful matters even in earlier episodes.

This episode was way better than Halt and catch fire. New twist to a ghost story and I always like when we are not getting the same old same old stuff.

1. That was a fun MOTW, right? I really enjoyed it. Me too. All the costumes were creepy. Specially the bunny and clown one. It might also be because the bunny one was used in one of the scariest games to date, Silent Hill. And that is horror that really is creepy. I wish Supernatural would go even more to that direction.



2. What do you think of the convo at the end? Do you think Sam will go back to the Cage? I think he will try and as he knows how Dean thinks about it he will try to do it alone. But Dean will get past his doubts and will go after Sam to try to keep him safe. And to why I can quote what I wrote earlier:

Quote:
Dean is no fan of God and angels except Cas. The two first mentioned screwed him and Sam royally over. Because of the last straw from God Dean lost hope and almost came Michael's vessel. Sam is more forgiving than Dean so it makes all sense to me that Dean is not "happy" about visions from God. If they are real, Dean must think that he is trying to screw them over again. Them being untrue is better option really. Don't really want to go to the "holding secrets" part because that is not the point or the reason.
So, last time they asked help from God the boys got flipped by the finger from him. Dean doesn't want them to be stomped, dropped, kicked, betrayed by him/it again if he can prevent it. He said it in the episode even. They fight the Darkness themselves. They don't need God (for now).

3. Welcome back to Sheriff Donna! Poor Stover was trying so hard. I loved Donna. Her accent was calmer and I like her smile and how she can make the boys smile.

4. Okay, masks freak me out so I was like NOPE through most of this episode. They were creepy. It was pretty hard to think there was real people trapped in them. Also liked that "Saving people" was implemented also in this episode by Sam saying that the first was last one to die. And for Sam, unfortunately one mask was a clown. Poor guy. :)

5. What other things do you find compelling about the episode? Donna, she was tough and soft at the same time. She has an awesome smile and I hope Doug number two works out. And she lived, YAY! The music was creepy and I liked it. Also, the cast seemed to have fun while filming. Rest of the bts images here: S11 Discussion - Episode 11.07 ("http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/lets-discuss/s11-discussion-episode-11-07-spoilers")













- Lilah
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 05:01
Love the BTS pics Lilah! Thanks for posting them.
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-11-19 05:08
There was also some nice gifs but they are twitter gifs and can't be posted. One is Jared throwing the football way over Jensen's head and other is Jensen lifting the weights. I think there was also a video of Jensen playing the piano. Or maybe this was not from this episode but posting it for reasons. :)

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSNfw6tvW34[/video]

- Lilah
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 05:30
Are the Twitter gifs on Briannas Twitter? I've seen this one. Those two are hilarious. For some reason Twitter is kicking me off now. :(
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-11-19 07:57
Yes, from her twitter was the Jared one and the Jensen lifting weights if she got them working. Twitter was offline for me too so I think they had some trouble with it. :)

- Lilah
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 04:13
Uhm hello? Dean shot the Harlequin with a rock salt round. The same kind of blast that knocked Dean on his ass and left him in real pain with salt penetrating wounds. The girl gets shot, falls down, the spirit leaves and she's all "What's going on?" Fine, I could accept that she was confused after having just been possessed but afterwards? Nary a grimace. She looked like she was just having a bad day. Lame Sharmelo, lame.

On first viewing this was a mediocre episode. It started out pretty good then sort of fell apart. The kills were decently gruesome, the masks sufficiently creepy - though I thought the clown could have been better. The story was okay. I can't say that this pair is a favorite of mine. Perhaps I was expecting too much. I'll have to see how I feel on rewatch.

The anvils about trusting the other? I should have. Should have. As in last year? Sam should have trusted and talked to Dean and Dean should have trusted and talked to Sam? And so the same situation is starting to rear it's ugly head once more? And around and around we go. Dean's reaction to Sam praying for help? A little harsh. I think he's scared. They are already dealing with one diety and the unknown that that entails, but even with that taken into consideration, would it be so bad if God really did intercede on Sam's behalf and in answer to his prayers? I have to wonder how much that reaction from Dean is based on this strange influence from The Darkness. I know when Sam has visions it freaks Dean out for Sam but based on allll their history with the unknown and having seen time and again how strange things can come to fruition, you would think the HUNTER in Dean would want to know where they are coming from or by whom at the very least.

Interesting how the writer of last week's episode said Dean found himself not only confused over this hold Amara seems to have over him but that he also felt ashamed when Sam burst into the room and saw him just standing there with her.

I was also amused at how Sam and Dean dispersed the spirit and saved the possessed where as Johnny Law was the one who ended up killing instead. Still saving people. You go boys! I was pleased to see they toned Donna down a bit too. I actually like her now where as before she was a bit annoying. And I really didn't care about Doug but I understand they are filling out Donnas story. Love the flirtation between her and Dean. I liked that Sam pointed out that she was treating him unfairly but not how she told him to mind his own business. I get that she was afraid to open up and take a chance again but jeesh, the guy was only trying to help.

I love how they are weaving the myth arc throughout all the episodes. It gives it a cohesiveness and makes everything feel not just real but real time. So all in all not the best episode but I'm still Team Season Eleven. Next up, the imaginary friend ep. Jared and Jensen are pretty psyched about this one so in spite of the promo I'm looking forward to it.
Russ
# Russ 2015-11-20 00:41
Quote:
I was pleased to see they toned Donna down a bit too. I actually like her now where as before she was a bit annoying. And I really didn't care about Doug but I understand they are filling out Donnas story.
This was what surprised me the most. Donna annoyed the crap out of me in her last episode (I don't even remember her first episode). This time they did away the caricature and turned her into a character with some sensibility. I really enjoyed her. When I saw a synopsis with her image, I was sure I was going to hate it. It was a pleasure to be proven wrong. Now I won't mind seeing her come back.
Russ
# Russ 2015-11-20 00:41
Edit: Double Tap.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-20 01:17
Ooh, double tap. Sounds sexy! ;)
Jen
# Jen 2015-11-19 06:30
Ok I would like to revise my original comments, My excuse --- Its hot here in Aus (36C) I rushed in from work to watch SPN and wasn't in the right frame of mind. On second watch it wasn't a bad episode. I think being so hyped up since Ep.1 and even "Baby" being more fast paced I did expect this epi to move faster. But on reflection it was a good spook show, the idea of using costumes as a possession was out there thinking instead of a re-hash of old forms of ghost possession. The subject matter was delicatley handled and not over the top. They pulled in the reins here and wove the myth arc very subtly through the whole episode. I was very interested in the mothers converstion with Sam & Dean --

Suck it up face my biggest fear
Should have gone to him first (Her brother)
Doubts / Defend her brother
Whole life sticking up for my brother
But what if I couldn't see him for who he really was.
Protect Him,
And of course Sam facing his biggest fear in the elevator The clown.

All these things she metioned in her conversation to the Boys are what Sam & Dean should be doing. They still don't appear to be fully trusting each other jet Although Sam maybe getting there sooner than Dean but this could be because Dean heard/saw him praying. Dean was rather abrupt in his response to Sam praying, but again this is Dean's trust issues and disappointment showing (with god) and also he is terrified by his Amara connection.
I know this is a complete turn around to my first post But I was having areally bad afternoon My elderly clients can get as frustrating as Supernatural !!!!
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-11-19 08:13
Wow Jen, I would melt in that temperature. :o

- Lilah
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-19 07:25
Meh....just meh. I agree with Alice, it was a mediocre episode at best. The pacing was pretty slow and at times I found myself playing Pet Saga more than watching..... not a good sign. A few things that bugged me. Why pedophilia? Why go there? I understand that they wanted a ghost that was "wronged" but in a case like that someone must be lying so who is it? A bunch of little kids are lying about their birthday clown? The whole premise didn't sit well with me and the writers were too chicken shit to delve into the story to make it clear. It's not a good idea to "allude" to child molestation and then not go through with it, it's too hot button a topic. If they wanted a truly wronged ghost, they could have made him gay and the father's of the kids homophobic, making assumptions about him being a child molester because of his sexual orientation and in their fear and bigotry accidentally killed him. That would have made more sense, having the brother really be wronged without putting it out there that he may or may not have molested a bunch of kids and possibly his own nephew. I also did not like Dean's attitude. It's not like Sam's going to suddenly stop having visions just because Dean Winchester says "no." It's more 'head in the sand' behavior and I'm tired of it. I'd like to think Dean has learned something in the past few years. No wonder Sam keeps secrets, no wonder he goes off to deal with things by himself (which is probably what's going to happen next). I get it that Dean has no faith in God's willingness to help them; and he's come by that lack of faith honestly. But Sam is not asking for Dean to have faith in God, Sam is asking for Dean to have faith in Sam, to back Sam. Sam went into that Asylum with Dean, backing Dean's plan to confront Amara even though Sam had no faith in that plan and thought it was ill advised. I'd like to see Dean return the favor, have his brother's back in that way. But currently it's just "no." Very disappointing and a retread of many times before.

It seemed to me that the episode was trying to be both funny and scary at the same time, but didn't accomplish either aspect especially well. The masks were creepy and it was at times mildly scary but nothing that made me hide behind my hands or cause me to jump out of my skin. I did like the scene in the elevator with Sam and the clown. For a second there, when the clown was choking Sam I though he might have a vision at that time; it seems that Sam often gets a vision when he's near death. He had his first when infected and his second and third not long after getting choked by the demon. I thought that they were building a trend about how and when Sam gets these visions and got really excited for a moment. But no, it was just another random Sam choking incident and nothing came of it. Then both Sam and Dean are knocked out multiple times for NO reason. I especially disliked the one where Sam was knocked out at the car. Why? So Dean has to face the ghost on his own for a few minutes? Well, that could have been exciting if that confrontation had yielded anything... info on Amara, a discussion of betrayal? the ghost whispering about visions or telling Dean that he was in trouble... something that created a bit of a reason for Sam to be lying there unconscious and for that ghost fight to have to continue for a few extra minutes. Was it supposed to add tension? Dean fighting for his life and Sam lying on the ground unable to help? Yeah, well it didn't; I was rolling my eyes at the obviousness of that tired out old writing tactic. "How to build tension in your scripts: Lesson 1." Boo.

And the anvils were a-flying weren't they? Family betrayals galore! Not listening to or talking with your brother. Oh boy... it was pretty heavy handed. And why was there a Donna love story on the side? Do we care about that? I guess I do mildly, but she was rather unpleasant in this episode, to poor old Doug who was a sweet as could be, and to Sam for no reason that I could see. I understand that Donna has baggage from Doug #1 and might have trouble accepting attention from Doug #2, but why do we care? Why was any of that in this episode? It's irrelevant and didn't play well IMO. I've loved Donna since her first appearance but she wasn't my favorite here, and Brianna Buckmaster is far too good of an actress to be squandered in this way. So, overall my grade is Meh... which I guess translates to about a C-. Sharmelo is now my second least favorite writers on the show. In this carefully plotted season (at least so far) the better writers are rising to the top and the lack of skill in the lesser writers is even more glaring.

One last thing. I am a bit anxious about the preview for next week. I have been looking forward to the Sam flashback episode for forever it seems, and my one hope was that they wouldn't treat the fact that Sam had a childhood friend as some kind of lame joke. Well, it appears that that is exactly what they are doing. I am still holding out some hope that its' either so funny an ep. that I don't care or that at it's core Sam's lonely childhood will be given some seriousness and weight even in a light episode, but now I am afraid it will all be played for laughs. And the voice over of Dean saying "I didn't like it then and I don't like it now" really rankled.

Edited to add: I just watched the preview for the imaginary friend episode again and I stand corrected. Dean doesn't say "I didn't like it then and I don't like it now" he says "it was dumb then and it's dumb now" which is just SO much better. Not.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-19 08:13
Oh my God, E! The world has tilted off its axis- we strongly disagree on an ep! Can we still be friends?:D I just wanted to mention one thought I had on why Dean is being so strongly against the whole vision thing, and adamant that Sam not pursue it. I think/hope that it's laying the groundwork for Sam to go it alone regarding the cage, and keep it secret from Dean. Because for once he would have compelling reasons to do so. Dean has made clear his feelings on it and would do anything in his power to convince/preven t Sam from revisiting the Cage in any way, whether through visions or in reality. So finally we have a secret that is somewhat justifiable, rather than just the pretext for conflict between the brothers. And while Dean is being ridiculously dismissive of Sam's visions and his belief that they are from God, he is not really wrong to think revisiting the cage is in many ways an awful idea. At least I hope that's what the show is doing by having Dean react this way!
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-19 08:29
I don't know if we can still be friends!! How is it possible that we disagree?!??!? :p;) I guess for me the bad outweighed the good. I didn't like the ambiguity of the pedophile thing at all, basically because of the implications that somehow the children in question might have been lying. That's not a good road to go down at all.... to cast doubt on the children's stories of being molested and then not give them a voice to defend themselves. The father's came off as ignorant, back woods hillbillies delivering their own version of Deliverance Justice. Yuck. Were they wrong and guilty of killing an innocent man? Where the kids lying? There wasn't enough information given out and all of it left me squirming and uncomfortable. I thought the sister was good but that the whole confrontation scene with the ghost was HACF level of lame. And also, what about all these people they let off from murder? The girl in he harlequin outfit and the 60 year old grandpa? What about the victim's families? "Oh yeah, we know who murdered your husband and the father of your now orphaned children, but she didn't mean it so we let her go." I don't like that they opened up all these door and didn't follow through in any way. BOO and even hiss too.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-19 08:42
Oh and BTW.. I agree that they are laying some ground work to give Sam a reason to go off on his own. That at least seems somewhat organic. I just don't like the effect it's having on Dean as a character that after all this time he still can't muster up some support for his own brother. It's driving me crazy, especially after the lengths Sam went to to save him last year and the faith he's shown in Dean so far this season and in all of last season. Reciprocity Dean, reciprocity. So, I get it, I'm just not that happy about it. Perhaps if the writers hadn't forced all that inorganic contrived conflict on us since season 8 I'd have more patience for it now.

Oh! And really, Really, REALLY hoping that they don't throw Sam under the bus with these visions. If he goes off on his own, following these visions and just makes everything worse, imma gonna be SOOOOOO pissed! 'I told you so' Dean is my least favorite flavor of Dean.
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2015-11-19 09:14
This is my fear too. But I'm hoping that because they're writing Sam with some POV this season and allowing him to contradict Dean more, that they're going to actually have him confront Dean about his (Dean's) Fears. They're making it pretty obvious that they know Dean is being a hypocrite about stuff and they're actually talking about some stuff this season, so I'm hoping that means that there will be some dialogue about it between them. At least I think we have a better chance this season then we've had in years.
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-19 19:05
BoGirle, I hope we can still be friends :) too because I agree with everything samandean10 said about this episode. I know you and others have found the possible child abuse story disconcerting but I must say that it was played out in a real manner and is part of the whole THREAD of Destruction of the family. Look how many families/ people were destroyed in this episode. In my line of work I hear allegations of sexual abuse of children in custody cases, dependency cases (state taking custody of children) and criminal cases. What is usually the case is no conclusion, no resolution, only doubt fear ruined lives. Sometimes people make these allegations just to destroy the other person/ parent and trust me , you can never prove you did not do it.... there is always the shadow over you. They can prove you did do it; otherwise it usually is inconclusive. I know you were upset because it seemed that they were saying the children lied but.... really they did not. All the sister said is that the two men said her brother did something inappropriate to children, and there was no evidence. they never said that the children said anything. Maybe these guys just did not like the man because he was different.... weird or autistic? Maybe the men were concerned because the man liked kids too much and maybe he just really wanted to make them happy. No one claimed a sexual assault. If he molested them there would be some medical, physical, psychological evidence. Also, children as innocent as they are can be coached or believe something happened to them because everyone is saying it did. Yes, they also tell the truth. I am talking about something inappropriate ... patted their butt, sat them on their lap, brushed up against a body part. They are not lying, they are not sure or want to please someone by agreeing that it happened. Allegations of abuse whether true or not destroy families. No one wants to believe it or ignore it and that was the dilemma of the sister. This story-line also ties in to Amara's idea of taking away the pain. She thinks God's world is so full of pain and suffering and she will give you BLISS and THEN take your soul. Fear was the other common thread.... facing your fears. I agree it applies to both brothers. I have to say that the scene with Sam confined in an elevator with his greatest fear was classic! I loved the stare down; the clown just standing there with the knife dripping blood, Sam no where to go. WOW. Finally, I disagree, it is okay to let those poor possessed people go. They did not kill anyone, the ghost did. So should they have locked them up just for the sake of their families? Was the ghost justified to kill the people that killed him that is a moral discussion whether or not you agree with eye for an eye or forgiveness. Remember poor Len, did he deserve to go to prison for life because Amara sucked his soul?
I also enjoyed the show because Sam and Dean were at the center and they were true to their characters. Sam praying was sincere and then when confronted by Dean stood up for himself. I think Dean was just being Dean. He was expressing his view God was probably not there and Sam should count on the US of Sam and Dean. I would have been shocked if Dean said , yes Sam God is the answer. Sam has to take him there and it will be season long process. I think Dean does believe in his brother. He believes Sam is having visions. And who in their right mind would simply agree that Sam going to the cage was a great idea????? Dean lost his brother to the cage. Sam was tortured and came back soulless. Dean suffered the loss and endured a year without Sam and then was so scared of who or what his soulless brother was , had himself clinically killed so he meet up with Death. Dean had more than enough of the cage .... but apparently he will have to deal with it again because Sam is going.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 22:27
Let's not forget that Sam is thinking that God is communicating with him. Remember Cains story about Abel? How Abel thought he was talking to God too but Cain found out that it was truly Lucifer? I'm sure The Father Of Murders words are forefront in Dean's
mind and I would have to believe that this is freaking Dean the Hell out over concern that Sam not be similarly fooled. He's also saying that they need to rely on each other, that together they will figure this out. What did VisionJohn say? God helps those who.help themselves? That would be one way to interpret that saying if it is from a friendly.
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-19 22:45
Excellent points. Another reason why Dean would be afraid and yes relying on the us of Sam and Dean is helping yourself.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-22 17:14
I can understand Dean not having faith in God, I can understand him not wanting to deal with The Cage being the answer to the Amara problem. I get all that. What I don't get is his repressive attitude. Everyone wants Sam to understand where Dean is coming from, but I don't see a lot of call for Dean to show his support of Sam DESPITE his misgivings and his fears; something that Sam deserves that he do. His basic responses for far to what Sam has told him about his visions has been mocking "Praying? Really?" dismissive "you were infected and nothing of what you felt/saw was real" and dictatorial "no, just no." Not exactly the kind of attitude that engenders communication or cooperation. Why Sam is even offering up any information at all at this point is beyond me. "Believe in us?" seems to be Dean's line, except when he won't listen to a word Sam says, dismisses everything Sam's going through as not real, mocks Sam's praying to begin with and then tells him "no" like a naughty child is told no by a repressive parent. Sam needs to know that Dean isn't going to merely dismiss everything associated with the visions out of hand without even exploring if first to find some relevance in his experiences, which is exactly what Dean is doing. Maybe Sam's visions aren't coming from God, maybe they are coming from Lucifer, but that doesn't mean that they are useless and it doesn't mean that important information can't be found there. But Dean won't even hear it. No wonder Sam doesn't want to tell Dean anything.....wh at's the point?
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-22 14:36
Hi spnlit, sorry for such a late reply, it's been a busy week. I think you and S&D and I can still be friends! It will be tough though! And thanks as well for the insight into the kind of work you do. It sounds heart wrenching and difficult. And I can certainly understand that in the real world that allegation of inappropriate behavior around children go unreported everyday and that many cases that are reported come to no kind of satisfying conclusion at all, resulting in pain for everyone. That's a terrible thing. Still though, I don't think that Supernatural is the type of show to be taking on these types of issues, as that is not what this show is about. I could see it being a plot line on SVU: Special Victims for instance. To me the whole abuse thread used here was a means to generate a lot of intense feelings in the various players; the sister, the coaches, the victims, without going into any real detail or committing to any sure POV. I have to assume, given how the ghost responded to his own death and how the killers themselves felt when Chester inadvertently died that they didn't really believe their own statements about his actions; they were just being knee jerk reactionaries and taking their anger and fear out on an innocent man because he was different than them. The character's were ignorant and limited at best which doesn't help the basics of the story line AT ALL. It wasn't truly ambiguous a story line, Chester was clearly betrayed, by his friends, his town and mostly his sister who had the least reason of anyone to suspect anything after a life time of "sticking up for my brother." The whole story did not work and the tip toeing around the subject matter didn't help. If Supernatural were a show about real world issues and how we deal with them (like SVU) then I could see them tackling such a sensitive and difficult subject and delving into its difficulties, ambiguities and various POV's. Here I thought that the writers were using for it's intense and incendiary nature only, just to get us rilled up, but never had any intention of ever following through on any of it POV wise; not the nature of the crime they were alluding to, not the bigoted and demeaning way Chester was treated or his POV on the subject in any way, and not the ignorance and inaction of the sister. None of that is what the story was about, so all the child abuse theme did for me was make me mad; for the kids who may or may not have been abused, for Chester who may or may not have been innocent, for the town who ignored that murder and it's fall out until they could't any more, and especially not of the sister who could't even be bothered to find out if anything that was said about her brother was in any way true at all. Didn't work for me.
Russ
# Russ 2015-11-20 01:20
Quote:
I didn't like the ambiguity of the pedophile thing at all, basically because of the implications that somehow the children in question might have been lying. That's not a good road to go down at all.... to cast doubt on the children's stories of being molested and then not give them a voice to defend themselves. The father's came off as ignorant, back woods hillbillies delivering their own version of Deliverance Justice. Yuck. Were they wrong and guilty of killing an innocent man? Where the kids lying? There wasn't enough information given out and all of it left me squirming and uncomfortable. I thought the sister was good but that the whole confrontation scene with the ghost was HACF level of lame. And also, what about all these people they let off from murder? The girl in he harlequin outfit and the 60 year old grandpa? What about the victim's families? "Oh yeah, we know who murdered your husband and the father of your now orphaned children, but she didn't mean it so we let her go." I don't like that they opened up all these door and didn't follow through in any way. BOO and even hiss too.
I interpreted it differently.

There was no mention of any kid telling someone they were molested by Chester. Only that Coach and Stan thought Chester did something "inappropriate" with their kids. Not to disparage the dead, but Coach & Stan didn't seem like the most enlightened duo on the planet. They had no evidence, and as Max's mother said, Chester was always a little 'off'. Wouldn't be the first time someone was judged and maligned just because they were socially awkward. Nothing more irrational in this world than a parent. Even Max's mother said once they told her, she immediately started to doubt Chester. Doubted her own brother for no reason. That's just what parents do. Someone harming their children, as she said, was her biggest fear. Throw in some ignorance courtesy of the Coach and Stan, and you've got yourself a recipe for dumb people doing dumb shit.


I had no problem with them letting the people go. They were essentially possessed. They had no control over their actions, as they weren't their actions. Merely puppets (as Donna mentioned), for Chester's revenge.

Agreed on the final confrontational scene though. Lame.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-11-19 13:56
Quote:
I especially disliked the one where Sam was knocked out at the car.
Would of been a good time to have a vision. Better than being knocked out by a ghost :)
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-19 18:05
Actually, yes it would have been a great time for a vision as it would have if he'd had one in the elevator as well. Sam seems to be having visions when he's near death or compromised in some way... give us some reasons for the "knocked unconscious" trope. But nope, it was knocked out Sam for no reason. Boring, lame. The episode touted that Sam would explore his visions and Dean would grow impatient, but they hardly addressed it at all; it was perfunctory at best. I at least expected Sam to actually HAVE a vision after they talked about it, but that seems to be beyond these writers to think on that level. This team has written some of my least favorite episodes: Mannequin 3 and Halt and Catch Fire, but they aren't as epically bad as Ross-Leming Bruncker who's batting average is way worse. At least Sharmelo has Ask Jeeves and You Can't Handle the Truth which I thought were not bad. This episode, while not HACF bad is down towards the bottom IMO.
Jen
# Jen 2015-11-19 16:12
BoGirle totally agree on the portrayl of Dean up till now I know both Boys are carrying lots of baggage and maybe Sam is dealing better than Dean But for a season that was suppose to re-unite the boys it has been disappointing so far. They have taken Dean from sarcastic,funny ,angry To mis-trustfull, rude, selfish and arrogant I really hate the way he treats Sam like --- well a bug that should be dismissed. I don't know if this is for the story line and whether in the next half of the season he will swing back the other way. Dean's worse than a women at the moment up/down all over the shop LOL
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-19 07:40
I agree with Russ. I think this was an excellent MOTW ep, although maybe not the best since S6. As with almost every ep so far this season, it seemed like a real throwback to the earlier seasons. Maybe it's just me, but I found this to be as creepy as some of the S1 eps, which was the scariest, creepiest season IMO. Those masks were unbelievably freaky, especially the rabbit head with those big dead eyes. And the way the possessed people maintained complete silence and stillness- it ratcheted up the scare factor.

I also thought it was the best ghost ep in a very long time. The possession of the people through the masks was something different, it was actually scary, and the back story was much more interesting than in the ghost stories of late. Whereas HACF was a silly boring ghost story involving boring characters, I liked the story behind this vengeful spirit. I get what Percys was saying about the pedophilia aspect, but I really liked the ambiguity. We never find out if he really was molesting children. In that way, the story was very true to life. Also, the ambiguity and the sister's struggle was meant to mirror the situations of the brothers. BTW, I thought the actress who played the sister was excellent, and I was invested in her story. I have to rewatch the ep, but when the sister was monologuing about how she agonized over the situation, whether to trust her brother, how fear resulted in her inaction, at first I was getting whiplash deciding which brother her situation was meant to parallel, because it works for both. Both of them need to face their biggest fears: Dean has to start admitting and dealing with the fact that Amara has a hold on him, Sam must confront his fear of the visions and see where they lead him. When she said she should have gone to her brother first, I thought that mostly referred to how Sam is beginning to question the situation between Dean and Amara and should confront Dean about it before it's too late. Her comment about how she has always stuck up for her brother and she never should have doubted him, well, that could apply to numerous situations that have arisen between the brothers in the past and in the current season. There are so many ways this is relevant to the brothers that it makes my head spin. I thought her fear that she couldn't see her brother for who he really was pertains more to Sam trying to figure out what is the connection between Dean and Amara. But what I loved most of all is that in this ep, once again we have someone who feels that she betrayed her sibling. And it's not completely clear cut whether she did. What if her brother really was abusing children? She did what she thought was right for Max and for the other children, to protect them. But now she feels it was a mistake and a betrayal of her brother. I'm wondering if that is a parallel to God and the D. Maybe he locked her up because he knew/believed that it was the only way to protect the "children" he was planning to populate the earth with. Maybe he did it with great regret, but out of the conviction that it was necessary. I completely reject the hypothesis that God will be the bad guy this season, and Amara the innocent wronged victim. But SPN has always excelled at painting thing in shades of gray, so I believe that will be the case here. Bottom line, I really liked the sister's monologue. It felt real, as did her anguish, and it can be interpreted so many ways regarding the season's plot that it was not like the writers dropped a giant anvil on us, but rather lots of nice little ones.

I really liked Donna in this ep. I had liked her in her first ep, found her annoying in Hibbing, and really liked her here. She was a good, strong, funny, sassy character, and I liked her interactions with the brothers. As an aside, it really stood out to me how Sam, rather than Dean, got the one on one conversation with her. I still haven't gotten used to the fact that this season the writers are treating the brothers pretty much the same in terms of the plotting, so it still pleasantly surprises me every time there's fresh evidence of it. Sometimes I wonder if JC actually sent out a memo to the writers reminding them that Sam is a co-lead, so they should give him interesting things to say and do. The plot lines this season have been so beautifully balanced between the brothers, another way in which it reminds me of the earlier seasons.

It's a small thing, but one last thing that I really liked was Sam's horrible Roger Rabbit imitation, and Dean's pained look in response. I cracked up, and then jumped when the humor lead right to the startling scene of the rabbit being right behind Dean.

While this wasn't the best ep so far this season, mostly because the competition is pretty damned stiff, I thought it was excellent and I give it an A-.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-11-19 07:47
A mediocre episode at best; clever twist on ghosts but the pacing was uneven, some of the story was very predictable (who didn't think the kid at the end would end up being possessed by Uncle Chester) and that was a very very long exposition scene by Rita. Jamie mentioned Mannequin 3 in the comments above; I don't think it was that bad, but it wasn't much better either.

1. That was a fun MOTW, right? I really enjoyed it.
Just ok; this might be the allergy medicine talking but I'll give it a C+

2. What do you think of the convo at the end? Do you think Sam will go back to the Cage?
Yes, anvils started to fly this episode; Sam dealt with his coulrophobia in the elevator and took out clown ghost, so he'll be headed back to the cage without Dean. Maybe he can slip Billie the Reaper a c-note so she goes all rogue and takes him there. Perhaps she can serenade Sam with another verse of Oh Death; she had a nice voice.

3. Welcome back to Sheriff Donna! Poor Stover was trying so hard.
She was ok; glad they toned her down a little bit this week.

4. Okay, masks freak me out so I was like NOPE through most of this episode.
Clever twist on ghosts and the masks were a little creepy.

5. What other things do you find compelling about the episode?
A meh filler episode but I'm happy they continue to weave the mytharc in to the filler episodes.
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2015-11-19 08:51
Okay so I didn't think it was the best this season, but I really liked it. I'm loving that Supernatural has gone back to it's creepy roots. Those masks had me covering my eyes. It was actually scary.
And yeah, anvils were flying, but I didn't mind too much. Sam seems to be listening, so I hope Dean will come clean too. I think that the sister talking about how fear makes you do nothing was dead on as far as Dean goes. He's doing his "head in the sand" routine and it's going to bite them both in the ass.

I like Donna and I also liked that she didn't save the day. She was there and she was involved but the guys were the ones who actually did the hunting instead of the newbie that all of the sudden was super hunter. I do have a slight bone to pick with the fact that Dean supposedly had the salt after he laid down the circle, but he didn't use it on the ghost. He ran at him like that was going to work and got his ass handed to him. I actually said, "rookie move" out loud. He knows better so that was kind of lame. I also thought they should have followed up on the kids who either lied, or at least misinterpreted whatever the uncle had done.

I too wish Dean wouldn't dismiss Sam's fears about his visions, but it's typical Dean behavior too deny until they're sitting in the middle of the fire. Sam's had so much character growth over the years, but Dean is just stuck in the mud. It would be nice if he actually learned something from all that's happened to them but he doesn't seem to. I get that he has no trust in God or angels or anyone because they have been betrayed so many times, but he should trust Sam at this point, especially after last year, although I suppose in Dean's eyes, saying that they can't rely on anyone but themselves is his version of being supportive. It sucks, but there you go.

All in all, I enjoyed it. I'm loving this season. Episode 7 and only one really lame episode has got to be a record for the last several seasons. And part of that is that they seem to finally remember that there are TWO lead actors in the show. Say what you want, but having Sam actually have POV and dialogue and a story makes the show better. When it's just Dean having the story and the POV it just lacks the Supernatural dynamic that we all loved.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-19 13:50
Quote:
Say what you want, but having Sam actually have POV and dialogue and a story makes the show better. When it's just Dean having the story and the POV it just lacks the Supernatural dynamic that we all loved.
Amen Sylvia! I keep waiting for them to pull the rug out from under us, but maybe this will last the whole season. Fingers crossed.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-19 18:14
I agree with this too!! It's SOOOO Nice to actually see Sam, the man, the hunter, the smart guy, the voice of reason, the moral compass and the badass once again. I'd almost forgotten what he was like. So, kudos to whomever for whatever has brought about this change. And yeah, I didn't think this episode was stellar, but Sam and Dean were equally represented here (and equally knocked out!). That's a refreshing change to say the least! So for me, 5 really good eps 1 meh ep, and one stinker. Still much a much better average than 8, 9 & 10 combined!
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 10:44
Question: What is with all the train whistles , and I think train running on tracks? I know I heard another in this episode. How many times does that make it? Baby episode as well. I'd need to go back and rewatch and listen again to see if it's in others. Does it mean anything or do the sound guys just really really like it this season?
Jen
# Jen 2015-11-19 16:23
Alycat I have heard many train whistles this season I remember this clearly because I often say (to myself out loud) Whats with the bloody train -- be off with that noise its so mournfull When I hear them over here its often out in the country and I find them sooooooooo creepy and sad. Maybe as you said its a fore-warning
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 17:44
That's exactly why I noticed. When I first heard it I thought "Hmmm, don't remember hearing a train before. Nice sound effect. Very real." But when I heard it again and then one more time - and was it my imagination that I heard a train on the tracks close by last night as well? I still have to rewatch. I'm going to view them going backwards tho to try and key into when the sound first appeared. It has to be important, right? I mean one time, maybe two I could see but three? It seems we are definitely meant to be aware of It.
Jen
# Jen 2015-11-19 18:28
I'll check it out as well Ally and we will compare notes ;););)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 10:53
Thinking more on this a train whistle could be viewed as an alarm, a warning, Giving a heads up that something big and powerful is bearing down on you and if you are in its way you need to move. A mournful sound, something that can be heard from a distance. Something trying to grab your attention. Or it could just be a simple train whistle. Did you guys hear a train or whistle before the Baby episode? Curious.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-19 18:32
I hadn't noticed, I'll have to be more careful. That's cool if it's happening. There seems to be a lot of that sort of thing going on this year. Amara's dress shade keeps deepening as she grows; it looks quite deliberate so I wouldn't be surprised if the train whistles are part of an ongoing auditory metaphor signaling change or as you said a warning of a mammoth terror bearing down on the boys. I'd be curious if all the train whistles are the same, like one long blast or three short ones etc.. because there is a complex language of signals that rail people use to mean different things. Maybe they just like the sound; as Jen said, it's mournful and lonely sounding. Trains evoke progress or loneliness or change or even imminent danger. Curious.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 22:35
Yes I did know that about the different whistle sounds. Pretty cool. Differs per country too. I was going to pay attention and try to determine the meaning and see if each are different. I should know more by later tonight. By then I should be ready to take my exam in locomotive engineering! Choo-choo!!!
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-20 17:33
Quote:
Trains evoke progress or loneliness or change or even imminent danger. Curious.
You are right about all these interpretations . They have all been used in literature. They have also been used to depict running away or escape. I first noticed the train in the background of the Sam and Dean conversation in episode "Baby". I think it is clever subtext. I did feel the loneliness of the sound during the BABY scene, kind of the sadness when they spent what they thought was their last Christmas before Dean was killed by the hellhound. But based on Amara and her impending impact I would say it is the impending danger on its way.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-11-19 13:26
1. That was a fun MOTW, right? I really enjoyed it. Yeah it was good. But coming right after a whole bunch of great episode it was just a tad less good.

2. What do you think of the convo at the end? Do you think Sam will go back to the Cage? I think somehow he'll end up there. But its too early for me to draw up detailed speculation.

3. Welcome back to Sheriff Donna! Poor Stover was trying so hard. I love Donna she's so much fun :D I hope they don't kill her off!

4. Okay, masks freak me out so I was like NOPE through most of this episode. Naw it was great :D Laughed out loud when Sammy had to face the clown!

Did anyone else think the spirit at the end was going to plop the mask on Sam? I think the spirit made a silly move by knocking him out. It was a risk and he paid the price. But maybe he just wanted on last kill before he moved on?
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 17:48
Yes! I kept waiting for Sam to walk in with the deer mask on his head and go after Dean. I thought that might have been cool and different rather than the usual "OMG are they going to be able to salt and burn in time!?! Damn those unreliable lighters!!!" So been there and done that. ;)
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-11-19 18:04
It would of been twice as funny if it'd been a moose mask and Sam walked in with it on. Oh the glorious memes that would sprout from that :D
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-19 18:20
That would have been a fantastic idea. The fans would have laughed themselves silly! I sense an idea for some moose fan fiction- evil moose ghost!:D
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 22:37
That would have been priceless! Or at least have the deer head be a moose head instead and have Sam do a doubletake or two.
JJA
# JJA 2015-11-19 15:36
I like Sheriff Donna! She's a warm character who didn't experience the tragedy other "hunters" experienced. I think that adds a nice amount of heart to the story. Hopefully they'll make her less "campy" in future episodes, and just bring-out her kindness and optimism.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 17:51
I thought they did a good job of toning her down so that she was definitely believable this time round. I actually like her now, especially because they didn't make her save the boys/solve the case and also let the guys hang onto all their IQ points.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-11-19 18:34
They just didn't get to hang on to their badass points! Knocked out how many times? Geez!
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 22:40
At least there was a change up and it happened to both of them this time. Hmmm...same as when soulless babysitter knocked them out and tied them each to a post downstairs. I'm starting to sense a trend here... ;)
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-19 19:44
1. That was a fun MOTW, right? I really enjoyed it. Yes, I truly enjoyed it too. The straight forward, Sam and Dean monster hunt was a real throwback treat. It was like a great piece of candy while we mull over the main course.

2. What do you think of the convo at the end? Do you think Sam will go back to the Cage? I think it was great Sam actually brought it up to Dean. I think Dean's reaction was true dean but heck who in their right mind would want their brother to go near it after knowing that he was tortured, came back soulless, then plagued by a cracked mind because his soul was so damaged. Dean does not want that playback. And yes, I think Sam will keep getting signs/ visions and go. I have no idea how that will play out whether with or without Dean, but he is going.

3. Welcome back to Sheriff Donna! Poor Stover was trying so hard. Sometimes Donna got on my nerves but she is growing on me and since she was a bit toned down as everyone commented, I did like her better. I enjoyed the little side story of how she wasr dealing with someone having interest in her when she was recovering from the pain of the divorce. It made her a tad more real and sympathetic. I liked that she was in the story, and not turned into a another hunter warrior but a real person dealing with supernatural.

4. Okay, masks freak me out so I was like NOPE through most of this episode. The masks were super creepy. Great idea. Love the stand off of the Clown and Sam in the elevator. Classic scene! I also think masks may be a THREAD. The season poster shows the main characters with different faces. We all know the psychological theory of how we all wear masks to hide who we are or how we want to present ourselves. Maybe everyone is masking something inside or will be unmasked.

5. What other things do you find compelling about the episode? I think the THREAD of destruction of family was incorporated and played out in this MOTW week episode. This episode was not simply mindless filler. Nothing says destruction of families like the suspicion of child abuse. Three people were killed and countless others were scarred and suffered loss. I know facing your fears and trusting your family/ brother was presented and some thought the anvils were flying but I thought it was okay, natural. Like samandean10, I really had sympathy for this poor woman's moral dilemma and the horrible sadness she was feeling at the loss of her brother. I also think the "family" pain and suffering depicted highlighted Amara's theme that God made a big world filled with suffering ... (Suffering children) and she will be the one to give them bliss.

I liked this episode: Sam and Dean were center stage. They were talking, working and in character or in believable character development. The myth arc was woven in to the story. The monsters created by the ghost were creepy and scared me. There was some humor. We were also left with a continuation of the cliff hanger...... how and when will Sam go to the CAGE? I give it an A in the MOTW category.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-19 21:03
Quote:
I also think masks may be a THREAD. The season poster shows the main characters with different faces. We all know the psychological theory of how we all wear masks to hide who we are or how we want to present ourselves. Maybe everyone is masking something inside or will be unmasked.


I love this idea spnlit. I'd forgotten about the season poster with the different faces. I also think it's interesting that in this ep, the characters who wore the mask were compelled to act in a way completely against their nature. I don't know exactly what that might mean, but the possessed people all seemed to be really decent folks who were compelled to do horrible things. Usually people mask their worst sides to hide them from the world, and pretend to be better than they really are, but these people were put in the opposite situation.

I also appreciated your professional insights on the child abuse issue. For much the same reasons as you, I thought it made for a compelling plot and it was handled very well. I do think it was specifically chosen because it presents parallels to the main arc this season and the focus on family, trust, and betrayal. I guess it's only a matter of time before we disagree about an episode, but I'm in complete agreement with you on this one.:)
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-19 21:36
I am not sure how the masks fit in yet but I do think that since this season is so well written thus far it was carefully selected and matches up with the poster. As you pointed out the masked characters were compelled to do horrible things.... but it was because they were possessed by the ghost who was the one doing the killing. Makes you wonder why the ghost did not just kill them outright without the use of masks and their bodies. Maybe it points to Amara as the grande manipulator and her possession of Dean. Looking at the poster she will also be able to effect the emotions of the leads along with secondary mains Crowley and Cas.
I did like this story for all the reasons you stated. Don't worry, when we get to that place of disagreement, I promise to still be friends :):):)
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-19 22:19
Wow samandean10, I just had a eureka moment. It ties in your brilliant theory. Thinking along the lines of my post above. The ghost used the mask to possess the people who acted out the killings. Amara is the grand manipulator. She can effect everyone and turn them against each other. You wrote: Quote:
Death did say that the MOC corrupted Lucifer, presumably because of the influence of the D. But it always seemed odd to me that Lucifer's first evil act was to induce Cain to murder Abel. Why not just continue trying to corrupt Abel? Or simply murder the hated humans himself? But it makes perfect sense, because in her anger at God's betrayal of her, Amara is seeking to replicate that same type of betrayal among all of God's beloved creations, just to hurt him.
Why did he not just kill the humans himself ? Why didn't the ghost just kill the people? Go to the poster.... Amara is going to manipulate betrayal in our four main characters and things are going to get chaotic. Until someone figures it all out..... probably Sam;) Oh yeah, with the help of God.
Jen
# Jen 2015-11-20 00:07
Love this theory guys You can already see it happening in our 4 main leads. Dean's connection with Amara and keeping it from Sam , Amara creating doubt and mis trust in Dean. Cas totally alinated from Heaven and Crowley sitting bemused on his throne. Sam seems ok at the moment

I have been meaning to ask a question. Is there any thoughts on why Amara totally ignores Sam she doesn't even acknowledge him its as though he doesn't exist. I know they have had no real contact but it just seems strange
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-20 01:14
Well realistically she's only seen him twice, right? And maybe not even when she initially snatched Dean from Baby. She seemed pretty focused on just him alone at that time. Isn't this the second time? She did throw him into a wall a room and a half away. I'm not sure Sam would want anymore of that kind of attention. ;) Maybe she is just now coming to realize that Sam is connected to Dean. Maybe she didn't know all this time as she was under lock and key, she wasn't keeping surveillance through the MOC on Dean's arm. I'm being sarcastic here, but if you think they are bound together maybe the idea that she knows Dean inside and out isn't so that far fetched after all. Maybe that's why she looked a little shook/unhappy because she sees that not only does she have competition for Dean but that his love/concern over and for Sam (and his for Dean) is an unexpected turn in his being able to overcome her. I'm just concerned she will use it against Dean or Sam in some way. Like Magnus, the quickest way to get Dean to heel is to put Sam's life at risk.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-20 09:14
Quote:
Is there any thoughts on why Amara totally ignores Sam she doesn't even acknowledge him its as though he doesn't exist. I know they have had no real contact but it just seems strange
I had wondered about this as well Jen. Clearly she is aware of him because she seemed to be spying on the brothers at the end of Thin Lizzie. So her fascination with Dean should make her VERY interested in his relationship with Sam. I suspect that she will become interested in Sam very soon, especially if she senses that he is trying to rally her old enemies against her. As Alycat said, she will soon realize, if she hasn't already, that Sam is Dean's weakness and can be used to control Dean. Or she will decide that she doesn't like anyone interfering with her connection with Dean so she will do her darnedest to kill Sam. OR, the third possibility is that she will use Dean to control Sam. Maybe she'll try to convince Sam to stand down by threatening to use her connection/cont rol over Dean to completely corrupt him. The possibilities are endless!
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-20 09:06
Quote:
Amara is going to manipulate betrayal in our four main characters and things are going to get chaotic.
I love this idea spnlit. That would really allow her to settle her "score." If God locked her up to protect the human children he was planning to create, the children who ended up being his most beloved creations, it would indeed settle Amara's score if she can set them against each other, instigating betrayals as she was betrayed. I'm not sure how Crowley fits in, but clearly Cas and the Winchesters were some of God's most favored, hence the assistance God gave them in S5. As Joshua said, that was the most God had intervened in a long time. And if Amara knows/becomes aware of the fact that God/Chuck? thought that the Winchesters did "alright" by choosing family above all else, what greater satisfaction could there be for her than destroying that family through betrayal just as she thinks God betrayed her? If this is truly what the season arc is about, I am so impressed by the intricacy and subtlety in how they are executing it. My only concern is that it will entail another round of ugliness between the brothers, which will surely ensue if Amara has any success in sowing distrust and betrayal between them. But if it is done as well as the rest of this season has been so far, and doesn't last TOO long, it could be really fantastic.
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-11-20 17:45
Quote:
I am so impressed by the intricacy and subtlety in how they are executing it." Agreed! It is a big difference from seasons 8-10.

"My only concern is that it will entail another round of ugliness between the brothers which will surely ensue if Amara has any success in sowing distrust and betrayal between them. But if it is done as well as the rest of this season has been so far, and doesn't last TOO long, it could be really fantastic.
I too do not want to see any major discord between the brothers after Season 9& 10. If it occurs this season which is likely, it will be different, for a good reason, more complex and less petty. If everything happened to the Winchesters for a reason than this is their latest big trial and Amara is going to put them through the fire. I cannot wait to see where/ how /who God fits in .
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-19 22:47
I read somewhere that Misha said Cas is going to do something really, really bad. What if instead of it being SAM who releases Lucifer it ends up being CAS? You know there is bound to be a twist, it just seems like they are teeing "Sam frees Lucifer from the cage" up too easy. Are we being led down a primrose path by Mr. Carver and company?
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-11-20 09:21
I have to say, it never occurred to me that Sam would consider freeing Lucy. I've assumed all along that he's being steered to the cage because the archangels have information that could prove useful. Ha, what if he decides to only free Michael, since it takes two archangels to start an apocalypse? Wouldn't that piss off Lucy. Anyway, I hadn't heard that about Cas doing something really, really bad and I have no idea what that might be. I do think that it will be kind of a tired plot line if he does something cosmically bad/dumb because we've seen that story for Cas before. But if given a choice, I say let Cas do the bad thing rather than Sam! Let Sam have one season as the white knight before they start tarnishing his character again! ;)
Jen
# Jen 2015-11-19 23:55
Succession of short sounds Used when an emergency exists, or if persons or livestock are on the track. Thank you Wikipedia

– When train is stopped. The air brakes are applied and pressure is equalized.
– – Train releases brakes and proceeds.
o o Acknowledgment of any signal not otherwise provided for.
o o o When train is stopped: means backing up, or acknowledgment of a hand signal to back up; when moving: stop at next station.
o o o o Request for a signal to be given or repeated if not understood.
– o o Warning that a second section of a timetabled train is following.
– o o o Instruction for flagman to protect rear of train.
– – – – Flagman return from the west or south.
– – – – – Flagman return from the east or north.
– – o – Train is approaching public grade crossing(s). This is known as Rule 14L in almost all railroad operating rules.
– o Inspect the brake system for leaks or sticking brakes.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-11-20 01:16
Thanks! I'm in the process of watching now...
paladinteacher
# paladinteacher 2015-11-29 19:23
I liked this episode. It just felt like "old school" Supernatural, for the most part. The clown was especially creepy.

Some comments have been about Sam praying with his bedroom door open, and, yes, it was a device to enable Dean to hear him, but it got me thinking. Sam probably didn't expect Dean to come down the hall to his bedroom. It has been shown before that the boys' rooms are not next door to each other, and Dean really didn't do much to seek Sam out int the past season and a half. Dean closed himself off in a lot of ways. I think that Dean is trying to rebuild his relationship with Sam, but he's not going to be direct about it. He went to check on his brother, and heard him praying. Dean is threatened by Sam's prayers because he sees it as Sam rejecting the "we'll do it together" mantra. His mistrust of God and praying in general also factors into it. Dean is afraid that Sam does not trust him. That's why he said, "Count on us."

Dean took the beating from Cas and lived with the bruises because, as he said, "I had it coming." Working things out with his brother seems to be coming out in a string of little moments, not in "one fight and it's over."

Sam, on the other hand is floundering. "We'll work it out together" is not enough for him. There is no lore to learn from, and he feels the weight of the people who have been hurt or killed. Saving people has been tied, in Sam's mind, to redeeming himself. He wants to fix what he has done, and he wants to believe that God is helping him by sending the visions. I think that Sam is headed for a steep fall when he finds out the truth about the visions. (I am leaning heavily that the visions are coming from Lucifer.)

Or I could be wrong about this, and Dean is beginning to mistrust his brother because of Amara's influence. That exposition speech by the mother in this episode surely had a double meaning.