It’s hard to call a season a success after six episodes, but let’s just call it a damn good start. By itself, “Our Little World” doesn’t set the SPN Verse on fire. Always reliable writer Robert Berens gave us a serviceable episode that stuck to the basics of moving a story along, with a few big reveals thrown in at the end for fun. But when you couple it with the exceptional four episodes (yes, I’m omitting that other one), suddenly it’s a crucial piece of an epic tale. And we did learn some new things that are definitely important for later.
The Continuity Fairy Has Been Busy!
The continuity fairy has been sprinkling all sorts of dust over season eleven, and suddenly I’m having strange visions of head writer Andrew Dabb in a tutu (sorry for the disturbing visual). For the first time since season five these writers look like they’re actually comparing notes and working within the boundaries. They’re actually following rules! For starters, Sam declared in episode 11.01 that they should focus on saving people. That hasn’t been forgotten in episode 11.06 and he’s doing something we haven’t seen since season four, trying to save the hosts possessed by the demons. It’s amazing that his declaration has gone to that level of detail. Sam is a wise one though and realizes not all can be saved. He accepts it as a reality and doesn’t take a lot of time to dwell on it, except taking a second to count that he did save two out of three.
Then there’s Crowley cleaning up Amara’s mess from last week, which was important since Sam and Dean stayed in the same town working the case. It goes to show, there is a residual damage to what’s left behind. While I’m sad by the demise of the lovable-even-with-no-soul Len, at least he wasn’t left as a forgotten footnote for fans to obsess over for years to come (and trust me we would). Berens carried on that soulless plot nicely and logically, wrapping it up without a single “WTF?” from the fans while not spending a lot of time on it either. After all, there was a lot of cover.
I felt there was some closure with the Dean and Crowley saga, and I hope that is true. Crowley, after all this time, has finally decided he’s ready to kill Dean. Okay, the “bromance” comment went a bit too far, but after all it was a major plot point for season ten (I know, I don’t like remembering it either). Major kudos BTW for Sam getting in for once a passive-aggressive comment of his own, bringing up Dean and Crowley’s “summer of love.” Was Crowley serious though about killing Dean or was it a test for Amara? I think it was jealousy personally over the connection he saw between Dean and Amara and he wanted to end it before Amara could overpower him. Too late!
Continuity wins big though with the return of Metatron. Cas fought his fear of his own inner brutality and what a better way than to take it out on Metatron! I loved Castiel coming in and healing someone again. Remember that Castiel can actually heal? Boy, wouldn’t that have helped with Charlie? (Still bitter). But the real prize was watching how dead on Berens got the sniveling Metatron and his attempts to manipulate poor Castiel. Metatron may be down and out, but he’s still trying to earn a buck. He’s resorted to stealing and letting people die for the sake a good story, and has even adapted to telling that story in the video age.
Yes, I laughed when Castiel easily snagged the demon tablet from Metatron’s apartment. After all it took for Metatron to get it last season and the fuss it raised in season eight, it was almost like the writers were declaring, “Nah, we’re done with it.” May it enjoy its spot in the Men of Letters Archive, only to be discovered by some unwitting buffoon years later after Sam and Dean are long gone.
Then there were just the little things that make a fan happy. The return of the “paper wall of clues” on the motel room wall. Or how about the return of the tacky loud motel wallpaper? Way to re-use the walls from “Changing Channels.” Or how about the dog on the skateboard in the TV news segment? The newswoman joked “That dog thinks it’s people.” That’s exactly the quote from Rowena to Castiel last season in “The Prisoner.” “I'm sorry, you're just fascinating, an angel that rejected Heaven. That's like a fish that wants to fly or a dog that thinks it's people.” Like I said, the little things.
There’s a Great Story Too
Continuity aside, there was a lot going on in this week’s story and a lot of it worked. Not everything. I found Crowley struggling on how to manage a teenage girl to be a waste of his time, especially when we all knew that Amara would get the best of him by the end of the episode. Their little talks were quite awkward. But I loved how the story progressed the back and forth between the three stories, working their way to a fast and tense pace at the end. Normally I don’t like that, but in this episode they all happened at the right breaks. See, that tactic does work at times.
The switching between the Sam and Castiel fight scenes was particularly interesting, with both technically having the same outcome, each taking the high road. But I love surprise twists, and Sam’s rush to save Dean took a stunning turn as he was crippled again with another vision. The timing was particularly interesting, don’t you think? Was it meant to stop or warn?
The back and forth then cleverly switched between Castiel and Dean, one side being mesmerizing exchange between Dean and Amara. The sensual and reassuring way this budding young woman questioned Dean about their bond, wondering why there is such a connection between the two, it confirmed there’s no way that Dean can kill her. I got the feeling it was more of a guardian/protector thing rather than an attraction, but no doubt they have something between them. Sam and Castiel can see it and they weren’t even there.
The other side had Castiel finally breaking Metatron, getting him to talk. It just goes to show what great things Curtis Armstrong can do with the right material. No wonder he’s cynical, he knows the truth. He knows that any knowledge of the real God would ruin the faithful, and suddenly we’re again questioning who is the real hero of the story, God or Amara? So, Amara is God’s sister. That isn’t too surprising given this show. It loves showing the epic battles among family. We had the dysfunctional archangel siblings, the twist on Cain and Abel, so why not God himself having kin? It really adds up in a show that’s primary theme is family. How exactly though does Amara plan to find dear bro and what sort of destruction will she leave in her path? There has to be a reason she’s feared other than scary bedtime stories.
The true fallout though came in a tense situation between Dean, Castiel, and Sam at the bunker after it was all over. Alright, it wasn’t outright fighting, but there was a lot of implications being thrown. I love that Castiel stopped himself from killing Metatron and took mercy on him. That is a very Cas thing to do, despite Dean’s objections. It isn’t fair to take someone out when he’s down, no matter what he’s done. I even loved the guilt tinged, “I put him in traction.” Was Castiel’s words to Dean him just being angry or could he sense that there was something that Dean wasn’t telling him about Amara getting away? I think it’s both. It’s rather entertaining to see Castiel jump back at one of Dean’s outbursts the way Sam normally would. Sam just stood there and watched, even taking Dean’s swipe about getting messages from God. I can only assume that Sam is too worried about his own situation right now.
Worried he should be too. Holy crap!!! I was most freaked out by Sam’s final shot, the memories of his visions hitting him thick. It’s the cage! I felt a deep pit in my stomach over Sam’s terrified reaction. That was one freaky visual, the ancient stone box with strange symbols, all just large enough for fingers to work their way through, suspended from chains in Hell. I’m sure Sam is coming to the realization that maybe these visions aren’t coming from God. He probably has a good idea who they are coming from and he’s spooked for sure.
I’ve stopped questioning why Sam doesn’t share such things with Dean, but I’m sure he doesn’t feel comfortable when Dean is flying off the handle with Cas and making snide comments about God visions. I wish he’d at least talk to Castiel. But then again, Cas hasn’t been himself lately either. I’m holding out hope that at least he’ll say something cryptic to Sheriff Donna next week. Or, there’s…oh, I won’t spoil it.
But if Sam’s vision didn’t get us, then the closing of Amara out in the real world did. Not only did they use the awesome, “Girl, You’ll Be a Woman Soon,” but they used the Urge Overkill version, which is far superior to the original Neil Diamond version (and I love Neil Diamond). It really added something to the eerie feel of Amara being on her own in the world.
The question is, who are you most worried about at this point, Sam or Dean? I’m wondering what has Dean so on edge. Is it a feeling of responsibility, or that the control Amara has scaring him? He’s not fully on board Sam’s policy of not killing people, and seemed to enjoy that he could kill the demon in the damaged meatsuit. Sam wondered why he was so eager to just charge in and try to kill Amara, especially when they didn’t know how to do it. Is it that Dean feels the need to be near her? Something is really off and I don’t get why yet.
Other Stray Thoughts
Has Castiel taken over Sam’s room, or did they give him his own room? It looks a lot like Sam’s (the books, the files), and I do remember Sam telling him to watch Netflix in his room, but Castiel looked mighty cozy in there. If they don’t have another room, Sam might be bunking with Dean again. Should Cas get his own room? How would an angel decorate his own room? I advise you all to toss that one around amongst yourselves.
I do have one request. Now that Crowley’s hideout has been discovered, can we please stop with the whole Crowley running a bunch of black eyed buffoons in the dingy place on earth thing? The boring meetings? He needs to spend more time in Hell or out and about being a nemesis. I swear those scenes usually drag an episode down and I’m tired of seeing the bureaucratic side of Crowley. Given the Amara plot and Sam and Dean’s discovery it worked in this episode, but I was done with it early last season.
Speaking of this week’s young Amara, didn’t she have that Dana Scully/Gillian Anderson vibe? Yes, I’m very excited about the X-Files coming back.
Quote of the episode:
Dean: I thought you were going with socially acceptable binge watching, “The Wire” and “Game of Thrones.”
Castiel: Yeah, well, man cannot live on caviar alone Dean.
Overall, I give this episode a B+. Very well plotted, but a few slow bits with Crowley and his Hell on Earth dragging things down a bit. It’s no big deal though given all we came away with. More nuggets please! We only have 3 more episodes until Winter Hellatus. We’re hungry.
Comments
I noticed when I was at Comic Con that there was a definite shift in the writers room this season. Dabb now has the head writer title, but he's been an advisor to many of the writers for some time now. They call him the smartest guy in the room. Carver is still the guy who has the final word and makes all the decisions, but he and Dabb have a close working relationship. I think they see eye to eye in a lot of things. I also think Robert Singer scaling back his role has a lot to do with it too.
It has been a great season overall. Loving Amara. Loving that things are not black and white as to who is the real villain. My guess is God. Betrayal of family is the worst.
No surprise that Amara is family either. I was guessing God's consort but sibling dies make the symmetry sing.
I still hate Charlie and love Drowley!!! I wondered if the Crowley scene was his jealousy that Dean has moved on. Clearly Crowley will want to rejoin TFW against Amara but somehow I think Dean will be odd man out.
There is a connection. He will sympathize with Amara who was betrayed by family. He hates the Archangels and he thinks God is worthless. I have always wanted to see TFW without Dean the de facto leader.
It also struck me that the demon kill scene was quite the look at me bitch moment. If Dean’s behavior from the Mark was because of proximity to Darkness. .. well he may be wanting to give in to these urges.
I am very glad the writers are being consistent and especially with Sam's redemption arc.
Yes very young Scully. I am still planning to do those X-FILES reviews I have the boxed set so I will also review the mythology of the show at some point. Goodness I loved that show.
Will get back to Sleepy Hollow too. I have decided they won me back again. I believe.
I don't think that God is a villain in this story, but I'll wait until we see him and hear his side of things before making a judgement. We know that Amara has caused death on earth. Chances are that she will again. By Dean's own strict standards, she should be killed. She's a soul-sucking monster. She's bad, maybe not as bad as God might be, but we'll see I guess.
I love Amara's connection to Dean. She has a hold on him that will only cause problems and I'm dying to know how it pans out. Maybe you're right; Dean might be able to talk to her about family betrayals, considering that he was at both ends of it, Sam with Ruby, and him with Gadreel. He knows the hurt of being betrayed and maybe he can talk to her about his own betrayal of Sam, and that sometimes you can betray your own family even when you love them.
I assume that Drowley is Dean/Crowley? I'm glad is apparently over. It made Dean look like a hypocrite in light of what he did to monster Amy, who didn't kill nearly as many humans as the King of Hell.
Quote:I've been thinking Amara's fascination with Dean stemmed from the fact that, like Amara, he has felt betrayed by a sibling. But you are quite right that he himself has also betrayed Sam and even came perilously close to murdering him. Yet the brothers have managed to get past these betrayals of each other (Sam more readily than Dean) and their unbreakable bond remains in place. Maybe that will help Dean deter Amara from her destructive path, or at least break the connection between them.
But we shall see where all this leads too? and I can honestly say this is the first episode I have rewatched in a long time so kudos to Mr Berens .
Dean actually knew he was doing something that Sam wouldn't like and felt terrible. They used his guilt to trigger a dark Dean arc by having him take the Mark.
The brothers are very different characters in terms of arc types. Dean isn’t the tragic hero Luke Sam or the reluctant hero. So Dean will never get the same arcs as Sam. Nor dies he make the same mistakes.
Dean is more an anti-hero, meaning he is always smart and dirty, and he falls into the knight errant category. A dude that drives around on the outskirts of society and saves folks from monsters. No matter what Dean has done he remains hsroic. For instance, he saved Lester's wife as a demon. He refused to kill Cas or Sam with the Mark.
They are different hero tropes. When I use these terms it is not a criticism. It's an acknowledgement of their heroic type which is established by the writing.
I Don't know when Dean tried to kill Sam. Are you referencing Soul Survivor. Jensen directed that. The fact that Dean picks up a butcher knife and puts in down in favor of a small hammer tells me that Dean’s intent was to give Sam a brutal beat down for torturing him. He wasn't going to kill him. We saw Dean kill demons and Lester, a man that condemned his wife to death and came to watch.
He didn’t kill Cole. He wasn't going to kill Sam. Jensen knows Dean best and he showed Dean putting the knife down.
Dean was just as responsible for the Darkness , totally responsible for the action.s that lead to putting Sam in that position whether someone agrees with Sam.s course or not and Dean is not beyond dubious behaviour himself , if there is no acknowledgement of that then Dean does not come across very well and putting the onus on Sam all the time is not the answer.
He does not make the same mistakes no he makes completely different ones that can lead to just as much hurt and chaos and betrayal of those close to him so like I said we will never agree on either one of them.
There was also the panic room where Dean vowed that he would rather see Sam die than become a monster. And this was a Sam who had never, up to that point used his demon powers for anything but good.
Drinking DB because he was infected by Famine isn't really on Sam. He didn't want that to happen which is why he told Dean to lock him down. He did drink DB in SS that looked like from dead bodies. Cas and Dean were draining upside down bodies that didn't look very alive.
The Mark was doing a perfectly FINE job holding back the Darkness as long as Cain was wearing it and Cain retained a copy of the Mark, so it might well have held against The Darkness if Dean hadn't killed Cain. So yeah, Dean's recklessness was every bit as responsible for releasing The Darkness as Sam trying to remove the Mark from Dean. I know, I know Sam should have just accepted that Dean took a mark the epitomized killing your brother and just said, "when Dean wants me dead, I'll let him kill me, because Dean is an anti-hero and is always, always heroic" and he should have said "The Mark turned Dean into a demon when he died and Dean isn't immortal and WILL die again and WILL turn into a demon again, but HEY DEAN is a HERO! I'm not, so I shouldn't try to save him from a fate he declared worse than death or save the world from a demonic Dean". But neither attitude makes much sense to me.
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And I may be a Sam fan, but I also love Dean and there is a hell of a lot more to him than that. Like Sam, he is a heroic figure who screws up on a semi-regular basis, and then tries to do his best to rectify things. I do agree with you that this season has shown us a Sam who is hell bent on returning to the days when the brothers were all about saving people, and it appears that Dean is not quite there yet. So I would think as a Dean girl you would be frustrated that Sam alone is being portrayed as demonstrating some very admirable character development. Maybe you ARE frustrated and that explains your unceasing efforts to portray Sam in a poor light. Rest assured, I think Dean will ultimately follow in Sam's footsteps and return to the heroic status that both brothers had shared in many of the earlier seasons.
- Lilah
Berens says much of the good stuff was edited out. It this is what remained- I can only wonder what is sitting on the editor's floor and wouldn't you like to see the deleted scenes? RIP Len. You did the right thing and so does Beens.
Wow, I didn't know that. I've always wished that the Season DVDs had way more deleted scenes and less of some of the other features. In fact, I would be tempted to buy a dvd of all of the deleted scenes from the seasons, although I honestly have no idea how much there is from each ep. Minutes? Hours? Does anyone have any idea?
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I have felt the same way since the very first time they showed Crowley holding staff meetings. Portraying the Leviathan as corporate suits was not effective and it's just as big a fail with the demons. It saps any traces of menace and otherworldlines s from the demons and is a large part of why the demons have become jokes. But I still give the ep an A because so much of it was great for all of the reasons you stated.
Finally, Sam most certainly should not have to bunk with Dean! The big guy needs a space of his own. Moreover, I thought that angels don't sleep, so Cas doesn't need his own room. He can just hang out in the library while the boys are sleeping and do whatever it is that angels do during their sleepless days and nights. Play solitaire, maybe?:)
Castiel was great for much of seasons 4-8, but his story has gone stale for seasons 9-11. So far this season, he (1) recovered from Rowena's curse, and (2) watched a lot of Netflix. Since they're paying the actor to remain on Supernatural, can't they find something better for him to do? For example, figure out WHY Castiel comes back from the dead? Why is Castiel so special? Why was HE the angel who became friends with the Winchesters? What is his ultimate destiny? There are so many rich story possibilities, yet why don't they ever explore them?
Crawley too has gotten ridiculous, despite the amazing actor they have playing him. Why doesn't he kill-off Sam & Dean? Why didn't he kill Sam last season after Sam tried to kill him? I mean, is there something there? Who were the demons Crawley had to overcome in order to become "King of Hell"? Are any of these Demons trying to get back at him? These topics need to be explored.
Honestly, something needs to be done with these supporting characters. They are series regulars, yet they're being treated as mere window dressing. They should have full episodes devoted fully to them. OR, just kill them off and bring in some new characters!
One other gripe: they should NOT have killed-off Hannah. OK, it's not quite the same thing since they now have a man playing the role, but still.
But, Hannah just wasn't the same since Erica Carroll stopped playing the character. Not that I didn't like man-Hannah, but I just liked Erica Carroll in the role. At very least, they could have played-up the homo-erotic thing a bit more.
Why yes, yes it did!
This was a good episode. Not the best from Berens, maybe - for me that would be "The Werther Project", which made a good story out of the Mark when it seemed used up - but like you say, it keeps the momentum of the season going.
I loved the fact that Castiel's PTSD/agoraphobi a/couch potatoism made him go back and turn on the TV again, and that's how he discovered Metatron's whereabouts, and that's what got him out into the world again. Maybe there is some divine intervention going on here.
Good point, that does seem like some divine intervention, don't you think? I don't believe in dumb luck on this show.
For the record though, on my worst episodes list of all time, Andrew Dabb has a few spots on it. As a writer, he's wildly inconsistent and I've called him out on it many times. However, he plays a very different role in the writers room. He's an advisor that most of the writers trust (there's a few that write on their own regardless). I have no idea if he's the one responsible for this sudden burst on fluidity in the scripts, but I have every reason to believe he's playing a role. Fingers crossed it keeps up for the rest of the season.
And Buckner and Leming for all their perceived writing faults, are about as on point with canon as any other writer (Hell, Kripke has done more retconning and ignoring of canon then they have). If any writer played fast and loose with the continuity it was Glass.
Bloodlines was awful but the dude won me over with Reichenbach. He's been pretty solid since.
I suspected that both Glass moving on and Singer stepping down from producing would make for a better show. The writers room seemed divided previously and Glass was an ego. If Dabb and Carver have a rapport... all the better. Carver strikes me as an introvert.
I think it's along the lines of "Angel of Death", so why wouldn't reapers then be angels as well. I think part of my resistance was due to my being sick to death with how they were writing angels by that point. Powerful? Eh. Frightening? Hardly. Mysterious? Nope, not really. Boring as Hell? Absolutely. I especially hated Naomi and the warring faction leaders. I expected Zachariah et al, I got milquetoast. The only Angel they have really written well (sorry Hannah lovers - see milquetoast) was Gadreel. So of course they had to kill him off. I just realized, Hannah for some odd reason reminded me of Amelia. Personality wise? I don't know why but she does. And I didn't care for Amelia either. ;)
Grade for this mindless episode: D-
Yes he had the Mark. Having the Mark stopped the Darkness.
It was Sam’s quest to use the BotD to remove the Mark. Carver writes 4 times in his finale script that removing the Mark releases the Darkness.
I don't know why you are so invested in it being Dean’s fault but you are ignoring loads of canon.
I won't bother citing the transcripts. I know that being confronted wirh canon upsets you.
We were never shown Dean losing it in s 10. This was emphasized in the finale. Sam and Cas use human sacrifice. Dean refuses to do human sacrifice. Ergo ironically Dean was in control. Since BotD Sam was shown out of control. Freeing Metatron was very reckless. Working with Rowena= reckless. Giving Rowena more power... reckless. Ignoring the threat of the Stynes and guilt tripping Charlie out of hiding... reckless. Racing to the Wethersfield box to get a book for Rowena... RECKLESS. Sam would be dead if Dean had not shown up. Sam was out of control.
It was obvious since Lester that Sam was racing to ruin and would start Apocalypse 2.0. I pretty much saw it in 10:1 abd definitely by 10:2. The writing is that good.
For now Sam is trying to save more people BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE IS RESPONSIBLE. Good for him. He wants to be a better man. It's
called redemption, atonement. It's great is it
sustainable. Not really. He's killed because he had to. He's going to have to find a better balance. When innocent lives are not at stake I
am all for it.
Dean didn’t trick Sam. Gadreel tricked Sam pretending to be Dean. Pretty standard angel behavior to secure vessels. Dean lied when Sam started questioning. And Dean prayed for help. A scenario Metraron set up by making Cas human and engineering the fall.
For the record I think Metatron also fed Sam’s fear of the Mark and Dean losing it. Metatron has been very busy since his introduction.
The writing proved Dean right about Sam listening to Ruby and drinking demon blood because it was all to release Lucifer and start the Apocalypse.
Dean gets the Mark and Sam still starts an Apocalypse. .. Funny that.
Maybe take out your anger on the writers. The writing is not my fault.
Also maybe read up on logic. Dean having the Mark does not mean Sam had to use the BotD. The irony is Sam sure didn't save Dean. He put him in the frying pan with Amara. It's funny how being wrong leado to even more wrong.
I think Amara is better than the Archangels and God though. Maybe Dean can influence her. She seems to care about human suffering.
About Dean tricking Sam with the Gadreel possession, Dean obviously gave Gadreel access to his mind to trick Sam. They both agreed that Sam would say no to Gadreel, but maybe not to "Dean". The first thing that "Dean" said when he entered Sam's mind was to Death. He said he was sorry he didn't have any crownuts. No way Gadreel wouldn't have known about that. Dean tricked Sam. If he didn't do it directly, he certainly made it possible. That's one of the reasons he needs redemption, along with abandoning Sam in the aftermath of all this mess, taking the Mark and making Sam's life miserable after, almost killing him with a hammer when he was a demon, (if Cas hadn't been there, Sam would be dead), tricking him AGAIN when he lured Sam to get killed as Death's condition to helping Dean, and so on and so on.
Dean was the one who stressed saving people, he was always concerned with the victims. Sam as an early example was the one who was ready to abandon the campers to themselves while there was a Wendigo hunting them so that he (they) could continue searching for Dad. They have both regretfully both hardened and strayed from this with the killing of demonically, sometimes angelically possessed humans for various reasons... and now Sam, based on the release of The Darkness has decided to try to be better about it but saving people/hunting things has always been Dean's raison d'etre.
But Dean has on a few occasions been willing to sacrifice Sam's life. I think demon blood aside Sam is still mostly human. And Dean has always been an act first worry about the consequences later kind of guy (as he said he doesn't think things all the way through). Hence the folly of the MOC which cost innocent lives either by Cain or by Dean.
As far as the Saving People half of the bumper sticker goes I was having issues with that as far back as S5. No one seemed interested in exorcizing demons anymore or trying to find cures for "monsterness". I am glad that the new/old mantra (whether it came from Sam or Dean) is to try and get back to saving people no matter what the affliction may be.
As far as Jus In Bello, Sam didn't raise a card when Ruby proposed it, Dean was the one who did and then pulled him aside. Sam was actually considering it, it was Dean's refusal and then coming up with a different plan that changed his mind. That and I would hope the bloody visual he painted for Sam of holding down an innocent girl while cutting out her heart. The fact that Sam even considered it showed how far he was slipping. Ruby would have never sacrificed herself to save them as the solution and didn't intend to. She knew she was driving a wedge between the brothers, especially with the drop about the new up and comer Lilith gunning for Sam that he forgot to mention. The plan itself was gutsy and inspired.
In JIB he was just considering Ruby's plan. Thankfully he was not under the influence of DB so he was still listening to his brother. I wonder if that episode was before the writers strike. The original plan had been for Sam to go dark in S3 and save Dean from hell. That all had to change. But I always got the feeling that JIB was supposed to be the turning point for Sam. It would have made sense if that had been the case. We never saw that kind of thinking from Sam the rest of the season. Made me think that was the point they had to change course.
Hammer was small.....
No No that is the writing....
Ironically it isn't demon Dean or Marked Dean that released the Darkness. No it is human Sam who corrupted Lester into human sacrifice, leaves his human wife unprotected, engineers Metatron’s escaoe, Rowena’s power up, Crowley’s dehumanization. ... human Sam who keads, Cas, Bobby and Charlie astray, and human Sam who agrees to human sacrifice and tells them to human up so he won't lose his brother again when he runs off, black Eyed demon, to howl at the moon.
I am really fascinated that they switch the brothers role and yet it is still Sam that messes up. It gives me the feeling that Sam will run off to release Lucifer without thinking about the repercussions of thst because he has to be the one to ckean up his mess, and then and even more innocent people die.
Maybe that's the reason. Sam does these things because he has to be the one to do it. It's a matter of pride with him.
Whereas Dean does these things because he thinks he's a grunt that's going to die bloody anyway, and he believes that his only value is dying for others on a suicide mission. Humility. .
I don't know really why Sam is the cosmic f-up. Maybe he will keep breaking the world until Dean finally does kill him.
A knife is for killing. A hammer will break bone. Since Jensen directed it and shows Dean mulling over the knife them choosing the hammer... I assume he's going for a beat down. We were shown DD beating humans and the only human he killed was by a knife.
Seriously it's not some contest. The writers familiar with literary heroic archetypes developed characters that fit different ones for thematic reasons. They have been consistent with the characterizatio n since s 1. Blame Kripke.
The writing is not my fault and I can support my opinions with canon. Canon and logic are my friends.
I do not know ..Sam is doing much better at least he does not think a knife is for killing and hammer to break bones.
Dean used the claw side of the hammer and swung hard enough to embed it in concrete. I don't think he was looking to tap in a nail.
I meant your tiny hammer post below.
Don't you mean "Dean colored glasses"? I forget which poster coined that term, but I think it says it all.:)
Dean took the Mark to die and save lives doing it by killing Abaddon. Dean thought he was sacrificing himself. Self sacrifice vs human sacrifice. Not very comparable.
Gadreel in Sam vs releasing Metatron, risking Bobby, threatening an innocent psychic, getting Cas to break with heaven and risking Castiel’s life, causing Suzie's desk, consortium wirh a known evil killer witch, giving witch more power, destroying the detente wirh Crowley, risking Charlie, Charlie dying which set Dean off, Yada Yada Yada human sacrifice, using evil spellbook... WEEKS/MONTH S OF BAD DECISIONS BECAUSE SAM DIDN'T CARE ABOUT COLLATERAL DAMAGE. Sam says it himself. He didn’t care.
Apples and rotten watermelons.
It's a pretty ridiculous comparison
And it’s the best comparison you have.
It's the writing. Stop blaming me.
I do blame the writing for not have the guts to be honest about Dean to focus on his pain rather than the person violated in season 9 and for Jeremy coming out with ludicrous statements of ''who the bigger monster is' at the begining of season 10' and I blame interpretation by some of what is seen because of that.
If you only take into consideration the arc of the MOC then I would have to agree with Dean. I too wish he could go back in time and shove it up Cain's ass.
That was an enormous part of Dean's story line in S4. Maybe it's time for a re-watch.
Quote:Threats are one of Dean's bread and butter moves. Maybe you should re-watch Yellow Fever as well as other episodes too numerous to list.
Quote:This pales in comparison to Dean consorting with Cain- the father of murder, creator of the Knights of Hell, and scourge of humanity. In fact, he didn't just consort with him, he took on the MOC, no questions asked, leading to ALL of the ensuing horrors. Even worse, by disturbing Cain, Dean reawakened Cain's dormant murderous urges which lead to the deaths of many innocents.
I could go on and on, point/counterpo int, but it's not worth it.
As to Dean’s psychological state. That was well articulated in the beautiful sequence that showed s his grief over Kevin and guilt over lying to Sam. He was alone drinking and wanted to do one good thing before dying. Typical Dean. So typical that Crowley was able to steer hI'm to the Mark as the only way to kill Abaddon. Crowley is watching the show. Crowley cert knew that killing Oskar was a horrible act... and he's a demon.
By the way, trolls do not back up everything they day with canon. Trolls attack people, just like you did. No apologies necessary. I have learned it is what some people on this site do when confronted with actual canon.
Just out of curiosity, do you acknowledge that Dean took on the MOC of his own free will, or by some tortured logic is your position that Crowley or Cain forced it on him? I only ask because Dean had never before taken on an ancient, evil mark, (canon, luv) so by your logic regarding the hammer, he most certainly would not have taken on the MOC. I think what makes TV shows so interesting is that the characters actually do NEW and DIFFERENT things all the time. That's why they make new episodes instead of just making a few episodes and then rerunning them endlessly.
Fire extinguisher, umbrella ,chair...are not used for murder...knife is used for murder.Fire extinguisher is used to extinguish fire (for some it may be used to break bones)...Umbrel la (dont know whether it will break bones but there it is) , Chair (definitely breaks bones) ...those are their uses ...No really.
So since they break bones they only wanted to break bones or maybe sit on it and in the process of sitting on out they murdered.
However Team Cure Dean No Matter What the Cost did... and on Sam’s say so. My good he even said get it over with.
Carver repeated Sam’s reluctant hero arc and tragic hero arc where he goes Dark and does Dark things. The difference being that there was no supernatural crutch; Sam was completely responsible for his actions. And, I think Sam will have to work hard for redemption. It won't be just another BDH moment.
All the major beats were there. It looks, like he will even release Lucifer again in addition to the Darkness. And he announced it in the season 8 premiere. And once again Dean tried to stop him and pulled a huge save of Sam’s life.
I do appear to be watching a different show one in which dark magic and human sacrifice for personal gain is a clear no no. There are some lines that should never be crossed.
no. There are some lines tha
MoC Dean. Killed a bunch of men who were trying to kill him and Randy a child pimp. Then he killed a bunch of murdering, dark magic using Frankenstein monsters. Oh my.
Of course Dean took the Mark on his own and he had to bear it without the support of his family because they were off doing horrible things to save him when he wasn’t in any danger of dying and he hadn't lost control.
The Mark which wasn't a bad thing at all. A lock and key made by God to imprison his Sister. We don’t even know exactly what the residual affect of the Darkness was. Lucifer always had hubris. Cain as crazy after killing his brother. Marked Dean hunted.
Yes. Taking that on is all on Dean.
Dean’s an anti-hero. An anti-hero by definition is not perfect. They are dirty around the edges and don't always do things nicely or cleanly. They do stick to their moral code however. Even as a demon Dean hunted. He wasn't bad or evil just dirtier, darker. Dean is never not dark. The Mark enhanced it just as it enhanced his life by making him supernatural, the most boring demon on the planet.
his life and leaving him in pain is more Demon Dean’s style. Did anyone else see the cat and mouse chase with Dean taunting Sam. Psychological torture just like he used on Cole.
his life and leaving him in pain is more Demon Dean’s style. Did anyone else see the cat and mouse chase with Dean taunting Sam. Psychological torture just like he used on Cole.
[video]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x105iaw_mary-tyler-moore-show-theme-and-intro_shortfilms[/video]
*Amara keeps on walking down the street*
"Psssttt! The beret! The beret Amara, throw the beret!!!"
Now this is a Nick at Night rerun I'd like to see!!!
You’re attacking me because there isn't canon to support your assertations.
And believe it or not your "canon" doesn't really mean anything to anyone except to you. Just like everyone who watches the show. We all have our own interpretations .
And as far as human sacrifice as a spell, neither has Sam. Sam knew absolutely noting about Oscar (didn't even know he existed) or what the spell they were working on entailed, he only knew that they were working on it and he asked to be kept informed. Who knows, if Dean hadn't been trying to kill Sam, maybe Cas could have let him know about Oscar. Maybe Oscar's death would have been a line Sam was not willing to cross not even for Dean. We'll never know I guess. I am just opposed to handwaving away issues for Dean as though it's different when he does them than when other characters do the same.
And to be honest your ''canon'' is seen through a certain lens which is your choice but it is not the same one others look through .
The writers use classic epic structure for the story. Sam has been cast as the reluctant hero, s 1 and s
Dean is a different type of hero. He is an anti-hero/ knight errant. He will never have a reluctant hero arc or tragic fall because he is inherently dark yet always does good. His struggle is self worth and making sure he doesn't stray too far over the line when hunting.
Note how Dean is tougher than Dam, enjoys the blood and violence yet never makes a big enough mistake to release a global Apocalypse.
His redemption is his life's work. Think John Constantine. Sometimes this hero becomes too much of a killer and has to be pulled back.
.Think Arrow.
They are very different types of literary heroes.
Don't they teach literature anymore.
Yes Sam blamed himself because that is what he does but his arc does not mean Dean should just walk away from the mess he clearly had a hand in and heavily contributed too. It is not rocket science .
He threatened to kill Cole in Black yet beat him silly when he met him. I don't think the intent was to kill Sam.
Sam Clearly knows a sacrifice is required for the spell. He tells them to get it done. It's, a parallel moment to the nurse in season 4. It's intended to be the pivotal act of darkness in Sam’s slide downward. The audience was supposed to be horrified. I was. Others were. Misha was. At least Cas questions the act.
Now Sam feels guilt for the effects of Amara and is trying to minimize human loss. He's also trying to be better man. He not only tells Dean he is to blame, he tells God. This sets up a, redemption arc for Sam.
This is what should havr hapoened in season 5. We should have seen Dam committed to saving lives as a reactuon to the death his actions caused. You may
Not believe Sam needs redemption. A lot of fans, do. The writers fo. Sam himself does.
A redemption arc will mean POV. Rejoice.
What’s interesting to me is that they'very set up yet another season 4 mirror. Dean is aligned with Amara. Same is being contacted by Lucifer. Being Sam he will run off on his own to ftee Lucifer. Dean will think it's too risky because Lucifer is patently evil. He is also bound to Amara via the Mark, sympathetic to a sibling betrayed by the other and no friend to God and his archangels.
According the J's at Pascon we will find out who Sam is talking to after the episode directed by Richard Speight "Just My Imagination". I like the fact that mysteries are being set up and answered or put to rest so quickly this season.
I can see it now .
As a human with the Mark Dean killed a room of armed men intent on atta king and probably killing him. He warned them not to do it. He may have been unconscious when it hapoened. Randy wasn't armed , just a child pimp Fagen. We saw Dean angst and, feel guilt. He didn’t want it to happen again.
He killed the entire Styne family including a kid that just chopped up a human being alive. The kid wasn't inmocent. The Stynes were dark magic users, pastiched Frankenstein monsters and unrepentant killers. They were exactly what hunters hunt or have you missed the fact that witches are human.
Human sacrifice, the killing of an innocent human being to complete a black magic spell for personal gain is EVIL. Again the practictioners would be
something that hunters hunt to save innocents.
When witches kill they are hunted.
No hunter is squeaky clean. They hunt and kill as a way of life. There is a profound difference from hunting and sacrifice.
Team Sam performed human sacrifice which Sam ordered them to do.. Dean refused to sacrifice Sam. Do you seriously not understand the juxtaposition of these two events in the finale. They wrote Sam as the truly dark one all season. Human Sam behaved like a demon whereas demon Dean behaved like a rowdy human. Human Sam engineered dark magic utilising human sacrifice. So-called killer Dean refused to sacrifice Sam
.
Poor Carver. He tries so hard all season with the subtext and the text and the mirrors and the one character engineering demon deals and human sacrifice and the other refusing to behave like a demon or do human sacrifice.
I don't think that anyone disputes the fact that Sam is on a redemption arc. My problem is that Dean did many bad things during the last 2 seasons and should redeem himself too.
The whole Amara as the wronged sibling does not entirely sit comfortable with me anyway.