It feels so good to have Supernatural back.  The instant “The Road So Far’ launched the season 11 premiere, the long hiatus was over. Watching Sam and Dean fight evil made everything right in the world, at least for an hour. The show and the fandom were reunited. People who hadn’t corresponded on social media since last May were suddenly on line again, taking their rightful place in conversations, commenting and gasping together with friends. It felt like the SPNFamily collectively exhaled, awakening after holding its breath for many months.

The season 11 premiere also felt different from other premieres. To me, it felt triumphant somehow. Season 10 was the milestone that elicited the ultimate feelings of accomplishment. When season 10 began, I was proud that Supernatural had lasted so long. I beamed knowing there would be a 200th episode, and that there would be celebrations and recognition. Jared and Jensen had endured 10 long years of grueling filming schedules, network instability and politics, fluctuations in ratings and weekly time slots, plus the personal turmoil and insecurity that comes with transitioning from young adults to married men with families. In year ten, the boys and the show had come of age. Supernatural earned its place as a show that made and shaped TV history. I was proud of the show last year but it didn’t feel…settled.

That changed in the Season11 premiere. Maybe it was Jensen’s Facebook poke at Smallville:
   Jensen Ackles: October 7 at 11:59am · 
Saving people, hunting things, eating burritos... It's what we do. Season 11 starts tonight folks. Thats right...11.
Suck it ‪#‎Smallville‬ #‎SPN11

Jensen Ackles's photo.

While that certainly added to the hype, the premiere went much further in proving the point that Supernatural was secure in its identity and purpose. In the beginning of their 11th year, Jared, Jensen, Misha, Mark, the writing team and the production crew once again delivered a loud and clear message: “we still have a great story to tell…and we’re here to stay”. The Js are still “all in”. They didn’t bail after hitting the 10th year. They didn’t go home to their families, financially secure for life with 10 years of residual checks. They didn’t use Supernatural as a stepping stone to larger movie contracts. They’re still here, together with us, keeping Supernatural a part of all our lives.

The defining moment of the episode for me was when Sam asked Dean “When did we forget how to do this…..”. That might have been a meta moment of the writers sharing a private reflection on how Supernatural had strayed from its roots. “When did we forget…that this show is about the brothers working together? When did we forget that they love each other? When did we forget that the fans come here week after week for inspiration and hope, not endless conflict and pointless angst? When did we forget that the original myth arc of Lucifer and Michael, the apocalypse and Sam’s powers, wove itself into the first five years of the show?” Naomi's personal realization in “Sacrifice” at the end of season 8 foreshadowed what the brothers asked themselves at the beginning of season 11:
Our mission was to protect what God created. I don't know when we forgot that.” 
When the brothers found their way back to their raison d'etre, so did the show. “Out of the Darkness, into the Fire” was the reset Jeremy had been promising for months. He said season 11 would return Supernatural to its roots and I for one felt the difference. Jensen sensed it too when in a recent interview he said “We're taking the show back to its roots, and it feels good."

The Highlights of the Premiere
...and possibly Season 11

During my live tweet of “Out of the Darkness, into the Fire”, I observed that a few key lines of dialogue were pivotal game changers for the direction of the series. They were simple enough on the surface, yet they signaled extraordinary, exhilarating possibilities for season 11. The threads for the entire season were woven into these bits of dialogue.

The Darkness

SPN 0168

The first critical line of dialog was spoken by The Darkness:

"I don’t know this Death and he doesn’t know me."

Her simple statement to Dean casts doubts on Death’s entire description of ‘her’ history! It certainly expands the possibilities and the mysteries of the season! I loved the depiction of Darkness…in the woman. She was compelling, mesmerizing, and charismatic. She was a worthy adversary, intelligent, obviously immensely powerful, primal and eerily dangerous. It was a brilliantly successful introduction to this before-time-began entity.

Baby Moc 593

I shivered, however, at the Mark of Cain on the baby. Please, please, please don’t pursue “The Omen” plotline. How can a show that is about the love of family demonize a baby? How can Dean, whose life’s mission was determined when he carried a baby out of a burning home, destroy a baby? How can Sam, whose life was predestined when evil infected him as an infant, destroy a baby? The plot parallels are strong. Innocence destroyed when touched by evil and a baby branded by an elusive puff of black smoke that disappears and evades capture (ignoring the obvious Harry Potter visions that are invading my thoughts). The show’s entire premise stems from those few critical moments when Sam was a baby. Now again, Sam is infected by evil blood dripping into his mouth. The references all subconsciously pulled us back to season 1. It may not have been subtle, but it effectively and skillfully recalled years of Supernatural’s history.

In addition to season 1 flashbacks, the discussion in the hospital when Sam, Dean and the deputy were trying to decide whether to kill or spare an infected ally reminded me of season 2’s “Croatoan”. Mike was aware of “something happening” inside him. He lasted “3, 4 hours” (plus some) before he succumbed. To deepen the parallel, Sam was infected while locked in a small medical room with a woman, possibly another nurse, who had gone homicidal because of a disease. With Sam on the floor and the woman above him, her blood enters his body. This scenario was doubly important because in “Croatoan” Sam was infected but didn’t fall prey to the disease because of his demon blood and status as Lucifer’s protected vessel. In “Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire” Sam is again infected. Does the parallel foretell that Sam’s blood history and connection to Lucifer will again make him immune to the disease, to the Darkness?

Deputy with Baby 373

Several other key points were made regarding the Darkness. First, the dialogue established the Deputy’s religious devotion. Mike said “I’ve seen you in church since you were knee-high.” Besides clarifying that religion was a priority in Mike’s life (presumably meaning the father of the baby was a “good” person), the baby’s surrogate mother is also a person who ostensibly believes in God and the Devil, Heaven and Hell. Her grandmother leads a Bible study. Will her knowledge of the Bible and religion be important, or maybe even useful? Dean reiterated the importance of this character trait when he wished the deputy “God’s Speed” on her journey with the child. This stuck out because it seemed like an unusual thing for him to say. All this leads to an interesting profile for the step-mother of the spawn, or embodiment, of the Darkness.

Lastly, Mike said the infected road crew were “Attacking folks like they were possessed”. An interesting choice of words. It seems the line was specifically meant to raise then dismiss the possibility of the Darkness as a possession, while the hospital, the medical terminology and the reiteration of the “Croatoan” scenario all seem to define the Darkness as a “sickness” that needs a “cure”.

The Family Business

Sam Change 435

The deputy subtlely introduced the topic of what it means to protect others: “This job is supposed to be saving people”. This subject contained the second critical line of dialog for season 11:

Sam:  When did we forget how to do this?

The conversation that followed will be a classic of the series:

Dean:  What?
Sam:  Dean, if we don’t change, right now, all our crap is just going to keep repeating itself. 
Dean:  I don’t even…what?
Sam:  This…this kill first question later.  What happened to us?  Hunting things, we’re good at that, sure, we’re great at that, but it’s only half the bumper sticker man.
Dean:  Sam, I’m trying to save that baby. 
Sam:  And what about the others out there?....
Saving people means all of the people Dean, not just that baby, not just each other.  I unleashed a force on this world that could destroy it to save you.
Dean:  I told you not to.  
Sam:  I would do it again, in a second, I would do it again.  And that is what I’m talking about. 
This isn’t on you.  It is on us.  We have to change.  

Us. We. Saving people. Sam and Dean have stopped all their “reluctant hero” questioning, blaming, running and denying. Sam saw, realized, understood…and Dean listened, trusted and changed. This conversation promised they would once again be the heroes they were before, the heroes who fought Heaven and Hell, the heroes who averted the apocalypse, the heroes who saved the world…and the heroes we want to believe in.

Sam Dean change 438

Sam and Dean also recommitted themselves to saving “all the people, not just each other”. Symbolically, emotionally, the audience now has a stake in what happens again. The world we live in became important to Sam and Dean again. We became important to them again. They are fighting for something greater than each other, and I not only feel emotionally involved in the outcome, I am inspired by and can believe in that ideal. The show did indeed return to its roots in this regard.

Lastly, an incredibly good omen for season 11 was Sam’s words,
“I get it. Do what you do. But you gotta let me do what I do too.”

Sam again asked Dean to allow him to be his own man. This time, reminiscent of the junk yard conversation in "Swan Song", Dean listened. This third critical predictor of season 11 has me mightily encouraged.

The Cage

04

"Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire" acknowledged that something monumental happened a few years ago in this show! The apocalypse, Lucifer, Michael, the cage – the climax of the first five years of the show and the foundational premise of its primary myth arc were mentioned! [!!!!!!!] The entire discussion of the cage in Hell was the fourth piece of dialogue that changes everything, and sets up a long, exciting, interesting arc for the season.

Castiel

Castiel Praying 319

All of Castiel’s personal growth came together in his acknowledgement of his sins, and his humility in asking for help. He was also true to his character in valiantly fighting the urge to hurt anyone, either human or angel. Misha did an extraordinary job portraying Castiel’s pain and conflict. Unfortunately, but again true to his character, he was too trusting and found himself in peril at the hands of those who would take advantage of his good nature. This plot line also looks exciting and full of promise.

Where the Season 11 Premiere Faltered

Crowley

Crowley Woman 254

The entire set up and handling of Crowley’s return was ludicrous. I applaud the show for finding an opportunity to cast a women into a guest role, but I found female Crowley to be utterly unconvincing. She totally pulled me out of the moment. I also found the orgy situation infantile, vulgar and not the least bit funny. On top of it, it seemed to take a swipe at religion in that the husband said he "prayed on" his choice to engage in an orgy as a birthday present. In reading comments and other WFB reviews, I am encouraged that not everyone had such a negative reaction to this plot device and casting, but I thought it was completely out of sync with the intensity of the rest of the episode. Meeting the Darkness, Dean being told he is linked to evil forever, infecting Sam, Castiel being hunted and betrayed, the brothers reaching a turning point in their lives and their destinies – these were brilliantly written and executed. They were dramatic, heavy themes that foretold a complex, multi-layered season. Then Crowley is interspersed as comic relief? Is that what the King of Hell has become? I realize the point of the scene was that his ruthlessness and utter disregard for life had returned, but the portrayal of suburban couples once again as mindless, sex-swapping caricatures insulted the intelligence of the rest of the episode. It was an utter failure in my estimation….or it had a completely different purpose, one that I may share in a separate article.

Aside, it was curious that Crowley’s power (of snapping his fingers and teleporting) did not work. Does the Darkness interfere with demonic powers?

Lying

Darkness Dean Closeup 582

It was interesting that “The Road So Far” included a clip of Rowena saying “Don’t tell your brother what we’re doing”. Was that meant to remind of us the habitual lying that had defined the brothers’ relationship in the past few years, maybe as a contrast to what they would do going forward? The alternative is that it was a clue to their future interactions in season 11. That possibility is very troubling.

Dean lied to Sam by not telling him of Darkness’ prophecy that Dean would be more loyal to the Darkness than to himself, or Sam.

“…the same reason you’ll never hurt me. We’re bound Dean. We’ll always be bound. You helped me. I helped you. No matter where I am, who I am, we will always help each other.”

This was the fifth piece of dialog that laid the foundation for season 11, but I literally groaned when Dean kept it from Sam. Really? We’re back to that? I am willing to give this a pass as Dean had a lot to absorb in a very short period of time. He tried to kill his brother, he killed Death (supposedly), he was freed of the Mark of Cain, but in the process  opened the prison door to Darkness. The world is now infected because of the Winchesters. A lot to take in while you are fighting for your life and the lives of those around you. I give this a very short (very short) leash. If it is corrected within one or two episodes, all is forgiven.

Sam Infected 495

Sam also lied to Dean by not admitting he had been infected. Again, understandable. Sam was holding onto the belief that “Like it or not, I’m going to find a cure” and he didn’t want to take away from Dean’s victory of delivering the baby safely. Plus Sam thought he’d be dead in a few hours so he also had a lot of absorb. Again, I give this a pass if the brothers deal with it immediately.

Overall, this episode gets a 9 out of 10 from me but what matters to me most was the promise it holds for the season. I am very optimistic and excited about the year. How about you? Do you agree with the basic threads I've identified for the season? Did I miss any? Your turn!

Her simple statement to Dean may contradict Death’s entire description of ‘her’ history. It certainly expands the possibilities and the mysteries of the season! I loved the woman’s depiction of Darkness…in the woman. She was compelling, mesmerizing, and charismatic. She was a worthy adversary, intelligent, obviously immensely powerful, primal and eerily dangerous. It was a brilliantly successful introduction to this before-time-began entity.

I shivered, however, at the Mark of Cain on the baby. Please, please, please don’t pursue “The Omen” plotline. How can a show that is about the love of family demonize a baby? How can Dean, whose life’s mission was determined when he carried a baby out of a burning home, destroy a baby? How can Sam, whose life was predestined when evil infected him as an infant, destroy a baby? The plot parallels are strong. Innocence destroyed when touched by evil and a baby branded by an elusive puff of black smoke that disappears and evades capture (ignoring the obvious Harry Potter visions that are invading my thoughts). The show’s entire premise stems from those few critical moments when Sam was a baby. Now again, Sam is infected by evil blood dripping into his mouth. The references all subconsciously pulled us back to season 1. It may not have been subtle, but it effectively and skillfully recalled years of Supernatural’s history.

In addition to season 1 flashbacks, the discussion in the hospital when Sam, Dean and the deputy were trying to decide whether to kill or spare an infected ally reminded me of season 2’s “Croatoan”. Mike was aware of “something happening” inside him. He lasted “3, 4 hours” (plus some) before he succumbed. To deepen the parallel, Sam was infected while locked in a small medical room with a woman, possibly another nurse, who had gone homicidal because of a disease. With Sam on the floor and the woman above him, her blood enters his body. This scenario was doubly important because in “Croatoan” Sam was infected but didn’t fall prey to the disease because of his demon blood and status as Lucifer’s protected vessel. In “out of the Darkness, Into the Fire” Sam is again infected. Does the parallel foretell that Sam’s blood history and connection to Lucifer will again make him immune to the disease, to the Darkness?

Several other key points were made regarding the Darkness. First, the dialogue established the Deputy’s religious devotion. Mike said “I’ve seen you in church since you were knee-high.” Besides clarifying that religion was a priority in Mike’s life (presumably meaning the father of the baby was a “good” person), the baby’s surrogate mother is also a person who ovstensively believes in God and the Devil, Heaven and Hell. Her grandmother leads a Bible study. Will her knowledge of the Bible and religion be important, or maybe even useful? Dean reiterated the importance of this character trait when he wished the deputy “God’s Speed” on her journey with the child. This stuck out because it seemed like an unusual thing for him to say. All this leads to an interesting profile for the step-mother of the spawn, or embodiment, of the Darkness.

Lastly, Mike said the infected road crew were “Attacking folks like they were possessed”. An interesting choice of words. It seems the line was specifically meant to raise then dismiss the possibility of the Darkness as a possession, while the hospital, the medical terminology and the reiteration of the “Croatoan” scenario all seem to define the Darkness as a “sickness” that needs a “cure”.

The Family Business

The deputy subtlely introduced the topic of what it means to protect others: “This job is supposed to be saving people”. This subject contained the second critical line of dialog for season 11:

Sam:  When did we forget how to do this?

The conversation that followed will be a classic of the series:

Dean:  What?
Sam:  Dean, if we don’t change, right now, all our crap is just going to keep repeating itself. 
Dean:  I don’t even…what?
Sam:  This…this kill first question later.  What happened to us?  Hunting things, we’re good at that, sure, we’re great at that, but it’s only half the bumper sticker man.
Dean:  Sam, I’m trying to save that baby. 
Sam:  And what about the others out there?.... Saving people means all of the people Dean, not just that baby, not just each other.  I unleashed a force on this world that could destroy it to save you.
Dean:  I told you not to.  
Sam:  I would do it again, in a second, I would do it again.  And that is what I’m talking about.  This isn’t on you.  It is on us.  We have to change.  

Us. We. Saving people. Sam and Dean have stopped all their “reluctant hero” questioning, blaming, running, and denying. Sam saw, realized, understood…and Dean listened, trusted and changed. This conversation promised they would once again be the heroes they were before, the heroes who fought Heaven and Hell, the heroes who averted the apocalypse, the heroes who saved the world…and the heroes we want to believe in.

Sam and Dean also recommitted themselves to saving “all the people, not just each other”. Symbolically, emotionally, the audience now has a stake in what happens again. The world we live in became important to Sam and Dean again. We became important to them again. They are fighting for something greater than each other, and I not only feel emotionally involved in the outcome, I am inspired by and can believe in that ideal. The show did indeed return to its roots in this regard.

Lastly, an incredibly good omen for season 11 was Sam’s words, “I get it. Do what you do. But you gotta let me do what I do too.”

Sam will have a point of view? Sam is telling Dean he intends to be his equal? I’m mightily encouraged.

TheCage

The writers actually acknowledged that something monumental happened a few years ago in this show! The apocalypse, Lucifer, Michael, the cage – the climax of the first 5 years of the show and the foundational premise of its primary myth arc were mentioned! [!!!!!!!] The entire discussion of the cage in hell was the third piece of dialogue that changes everything, and set up a long, exciting, interesting arc for the season.

Castiel

All of Castiel’s personal growth came together in his acknowledgement of his sins, and his humility in asking for help. He was also true to his character in valiantly fighting the urge to hurt anyone, either human or angel. Misha did an extraordinary job portraying Castiel’s pain and conflict. Unfortunately but again true to his character, he was too trusting and finds himself in peril at the hands of those who take advantage of his good nature. This plot line also looks exciting and .

Where the Season 11 Premiere Faltered

Crowley

The entire set up and handling of Crowley’s return was ludicrous. I applaud the show for finding an opportunity to cast a women into a guest role, but I found female Crowley to be utterly unconvincing. She totally pulled me out of the moment. I also found the orgy situation infantile, vulgar and not the least bit funny. On top of it, it seemed to take a swipe at religion in that the husband said he prayed on his choice to engage in an orgy as a birthday present. In reading comments and other WFB reviews, I am encouraged that not everyone had such a negative reaction to this plot device and casting, but I thought it was completely out of sync with the intensity of the rest of the episode. Meeting the Darkness, Dean being told he is linked to evil forever, infecting Sam, Castiel being hunted and betrayed, the brothers reaching a turning point in their lives and their destinies – these were brilliantly written and executed. They were dramatic, heavy themes that foretold a complex, multi-layered season. Then Crowley is interspersed as comic relief? Is that what the King of Hell has become? I realize the point of the scene was that his ruthlessness and utter disregard for life had returned, but the portrayal of suburban couples once again as mindless, sex-swapping caricatures insulted the intelligence of the rest of the episode. It was an utter failure in my estimation….or it had a completely different purpose, one that I may share in a separate article.

Aside, it was curious that Crowley’s power (of snapping his fingers and teleporting) did not work. Does the Darkness interfere with demonic powers?

Lying

It was interesting that “The Road So Far” included a clip of Rowena saying “Don’t tell your brother what we’re doing”. Was that meant to remind of us the habitual lying that had defined the brothers’ relationship in the past few years, maybe as a contrast to what they would do going forward? The alternative is that it was a clue to their interactions in season 11. That possibility is very troubling.

Dean lied to Sam by not telling him of Darkness’ prophecy that Dean would be more loyal to the Darkness than to himself, or Sam.

“…the same reason you’ll never hurt me. We’re bound Dean. We’ll always be bound. You helped me. I helped you. No matter where I am, who I am, we will always help each other.”

I literally groaned out loud. Really? We’re back to that? I am willing to give this a pass as Dean had a lot to absorb in a very short period of time. He tried to kill his brother, he killed Death (supposedly), he was freed of the Mark of Cain, but that was the key that opened the prison door to Darkness and the world is now infected because of the Winchesters. A lot to take in while you are fighting for your life and the lives of those around you. I give this a very short (very short) leash. If it is corrected within one or two episodes, all is forgiven.

Sam also lied to Dean by not admitting he had been infected. Again, understandable. Sam was holding onto the belief that “Like it or not, I’m going to find a cure” and he didn’t want to take away from Dean’s victory of delivering the baby safely. Plus Sam thought he’d be dead in a few hours so he also had a lot of absorb. Again, I give this a pass if the brothers deal with it immediately.

Comments  

cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-10-10 01:13
Thank you for your review. I really loved this episode (minus the orgy scene. I had the same problems as you did) I particularly loved the speech from Sam about "Saving People" as the other half of the bumper sticker. People may die, but it shouldn't be because of the Winchesters. I loved your hypothesis that JC was saying to us "When did we forget that the fans come here week after week for inspiration and hope". I could never put my finger on it. What was so off about the last few seasons. The endless conflicts, the brothers separated following there own paths mostly at odds with each other. It wasn't always pleasant viewing. I am so excited about this reboot of the series back to the days when yes the brothers would do anything for each other but "Saving People" all the people was their mission.

The Darkness is hard to pin down. Amoral means she is not immoral or moral. So does that mean she is kind of a sociopath? Only out for her own gains. What does she want with Dean? Sam and Rowena are the ones who set her free why is she connected to Dean. I get he was once the bearer of the Mark but it's gone now. I love that this isn't going to be easy to predict.

And poor little innocent baby. Don't! Do Not! hurt the baby. Dean seemed very focused on saving the baby no matter what. I can't see him harming her. And Sam's new mantra is going to compel him to do whatever it takes to save her too (at least I hope).

Ahh secrets and lies. I got the feeling that maybe Dean was remembering his experience with the Darkness little bits at a time. He seemed very disoriented (I loved that feel throughout the whole episode btw) when Sam first found him. "She saved me"??? Why did she take Dean out of the car to begin with? Or did she? Maybe something else did and she saved Dean from whatever that was. This is so dam intriguing I think I'll burst before next Wed. I am hoping that is why he isn't talking to Sam about it, he can't really process what happened yet. But yes he needs to come clean.

And what knocked Sam out in the Impala. He was just sitting there, Dean was gone and something hit him. I'm glad that Sam (and Dean too) acknowledged that he let the Darkness into the world. Get that out right in the first episode. No blame game from either brother. Just accepting their own roles in unleashing a disaster and get to work fixing it. Yay!

I will give Sam a pass at not telling Dean about being infected as well. He knew what Dean would do and protecting the deputy and the baby was more important. If Sam can't find a cure having Dean race back isn't going to solve anything. It will just put Dean at risk too.

And a big yes to Lucifer or Michael or both screaming from the cage in fear. Now that sound ominous! I want so badly for my own prediction to come true. But I have a feeling that the show will come up with something even better.

I am very excited for the rest of the season. Saving People, Hunting Things the Winchester Family Business.
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-10-10 21:59
Thank you for the feedback!
Quote:
And what knocked Sam out in the Impala. He was just sitting there, Dean was gone and something hit him.
I actually reversed that several times to try to determine what knocked him out because I wondered the same thing. I decided the billowing wind passing over and around the car was banging the car around. Mike described it as a tornado type effect. With the velocity and mass that we saw approached the Impala, I think Sam got bounced up against the ceiling of the car.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-10 03:07
Very nice Nightsky. You echoed a lot of my thoughts about this episode much more eloquently than I ever could. I thought it was so hopeful yet tense and exciting. I kind of felt a relief that I recognized these brothers who I have loved unconditionally for a decade but had trouble relating to sometimes the last few years. Yes there was some lying, it is their knee-jerk reaction to almost anything that might upset or worry the other. However I don't think it was malicious in nature on either's part. I think the truth will out soon one way or another. They get a lot of leeway from me for the reasons you stated. This is not going to change overnight or maybe ever. As long as they are a team united and aren't locked in ugly conflict I am good with that right now. There were so many positives. I am willing to have some bumps on the road. They are making headway.

I love the mysteries that are unfolding. I do think much of their past history including Sam's demon blood, Lucifer, Michael, the cage, demons, angels, God, Death are all going to somehow tie in to the Darkness. If they manage to do that I will be very impressed. I love how disorienting the Darkness is and how the show conveyed that to us and left us unsure of what was happening. The directing was awesome as were the effects. I also hope we don't get any evil babies.

I do feel the Darkness is possessing people either their minds (Dean's possibly), or their bodies, the veinies Or both. As such, I think their could be a potential cure. Whatever it's doing or for what purpose we have few clues. Just questions. Is it evil or good? Is it controlling Dean? The baby, is it Amara and projecting images into Dean's head? So many questions, I just love that.

I 100% agree about the orgy scene. It was just not funny to me at all. Not. At. All. I will spare everybody from detailing why again on this site. Just ugh.

I refuse to let that ruin how much I liked this premiere. Ok it's late and I am rambling.

Thanks Nightsky :)
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-10-10 04:25
Quote:
Aside, it was curious that Crowley’s power (of snapping his fingers and teleporting) did not work. Does the Darkness interfere with demonic powers?
I think it was because of the immobilize spell. The demons were getting help to remove the spell from his vessel. So in his new vessel he couldn't use his magic either.

I think they won't harm the baby but my prediction is that the baby grows up faster than normal. Like Dean's amazon daughter. I like how you piled up your thoughts and threads from the premiere. I really liked it too. I am neutral with the orgy scene so won't go into that. I think the actress did great as female Crowley. That is all I will say about that. The season looks very promising and I loved the feel about the whole episode. And the grown up TD was eerie and calm. I liked her performance.

Can't wait for next week.

- Lilah
Fazzie
# Fazzie 2015-10-10 08:00
Quote:
Lastly, an incredibly good omen for season 11 was Sam’s words,
“I get it. Do what you do. But you gotta let me do what I do too.”
I know this is going to get me a lot of hate but when he said that I was thinking 'Well get on with it then, you're a 33 year old man. No-one is stopping you and haven't in practice for years except really yourself'

Quote:
Please, please, please don’t pursue “The Omen” plotline. How can a show that is about the love of family demonize a baby?
Think is the show has flirted with actually exploring this outside the boys a couple of times and not followed through - Jesse the antichrist, was rainsed by a lving family. He was a good kid and was strong enough to take himself out of the game that everyone else wanted him to play because he didn't want to deliberately hurt anyone. Emma, Dean's monster child. Bad upbringing but was killed before she killed at a point where Dean hadn't been begging for his life. If she had been given enough love and attention and shown another way could she have not been evil?

We don't know the darkness' agenda, she is a myth to all. She didn't know Death so Death's understanding of her may have been given to him by the guy who imprisoned her (not a reliable neutral source). The infected we don't know if they are with the darkness or are the last play of the prison to keep her contained so may not actually be her fault but God's/Lucifer's . With the right upbringing and care could the darkness be given hope about humanity and start to care about it?

Personally I'd like a twist and the baby have the mark because she was the closest child to be born to it so it is now marked as a saviour so to speak, that is why the darkness is after it. But then again I'd also like it if they went with a kind of being Human sort of thing if they did go that way, because it speaks of love of family and is actually still practical. Plus no baby proofing or rapid aging syndrome being brought in to the show. But I'm twisted that way ;)

https://youtu.be/izvc8bJgPpM?t=45m36s ("https://youtu .be/izvc8bJgPpM ?t=45m36s")
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-10-10 09:22
I loved being human (UK version) I hated it when Mitchell died.:(
Fazzie
# Fazzie 2015-10-10 10:59
Yeah Hal and Tom weren't Mitchell and George!
Jen
# Jen 2015-10-10 10:20
Love this theory hopefully she will be a good omen, in a way like Sam born to be evil but brought up the right way fought and beat evil to do good
Fazzie
# Fazzie 2015-10-10 11:01
It would be a good twist but as I said would kind of think that if so it would be good if they pulled a Being Human on the idea if everyone is always after the baby, especially if this turns out to be the last season.

It would be a cool way to end it, especially for Dean, him and baby Amara going the way of Annie and baby Eve, while Sam decides what it is he is going to do with his life as a MoL.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-10 11:11
Quote:
With the right upbringing and care could the darkness be given hope about humanity and start to care about it?
...I'm sorry what?
Fazzie
# Fazzie 2015-10-10 11:15
The idea that right now as a baby the darkness is a complete innocent.

That if she receives the right love and care she will grow up not to be evil but good because the people around her showed her how to care for others. Is that possible? Or if the baby is the darkness, not matter how much emotional support and care she receives, still be something that needs to be stopped as her so called evil nature would win out.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-10 12:09
The Darkness, if I'm correct is the original evil. There is no, cannot be no goodness about it. That baby has the er.. what do we call it? The Darkness mark now? Anyway no I don't think that baby should go good. Sounds like bad writing. I'm itching for a villain that brings the Winchesters to their knees and makes us think "They could actually loose this!".
Fazzie
# Fazzie 2015-10-10 12:45
Quote:
The Darkness, if I'm correct is the original evil. There is no, cannot be no goodness about it.
Who says? Death who the Darkness says she didn't know, so if telling the truth means that he got his info from God about her - got it from God who in the show is one step from being a duche on the show. The Angels or Demons - she's a myth from their POV. They got their info from Lucifer and God and stories.

Who says that the Darkness isn't capable of change even if she is the original evil? Jesse was the antichrist - he wasn't evil. Emma, didn't automatically kill Dean even though other newbie amazons wen't straight for the kill, was she really 'evil' or a victim of her upbringing? Sam had blood from a demon dripped into his mouth to be contaminated and manipulated all his life - isn't he supposed to be truly evil?

Isn't the real take away for this show - free will. All have it they just don't know how to use it? If the baby is the darkness then isn't it simply lazy writing to go straight for the kill without pondering the idea that she could be raised to be good.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-10 19:08
Quote:
Who says? Death who the Darkness says she didn't know, so if telling the truth means that he got his info from God about her - got it from God who in the show is one step from being a douche on the show. The Angels or Demons - she's a myth from their POV. They got their info from Lucifer and God and stories.
I'm partially basing it off what I've seen and what I've learnt as I've watched the show. My first example would be the colour. It's black, just like the demons. Well, judging from experience, anything with black on them (eyes, smoke, veins) seems to be evil. Yes we know Sam's eyes turned black, and his veins at one point. He had evil in him but he was more a being/mindset of purity. However just like real life some people are more easily corrupted than others. Sam resisted because that was not who he was or could become because as I mentioned that just wasn't him.

My second thought was what we have heard from Death and such about it. Described as an amoral and destructive force. It makes sense to me that god represents goodness whilst the Darkness represents the opposite. Yes the angels have been dickbags and demons have shown goodness. Both started out pure. Some of the angels went corrupt with power, whilst some (how many is that on the show? Two?) demons manage to re discover their humanity. Am I just rambling now? Sorry.. I could go on about Jesse but lets just say even though he was born half and half, his human part was stronger just like Sam who had his own bit of demon inside him. That and I could make a whole topic on why I dislike Jesse *grumbles*

Quote:
Who says that the Darkness isn't capable of change even if she is the original evil? Jesse was the antichrist - he wasn't evil. Emma, didn't automatically kill Dean even though other newbie amazons wen't straight for the kill, was she really 'evil' or a victim of her upbringing? Sam had blood from a demon dripped into his mouth to be contaminated and manipulated all his life - isn't he supposed to be truly evil?
In my view the Darkness sounds pure evil, just how I would imagine god is pure good. Heck, from what I've heard of the last episode and the past everyone fears it. Anyway.. nothing screams disapointment in my ears than this ancient being capable of turning people into mindless beasts, capable of being more powerful than god, starts feeling sorry for sentinel creatures that have feelings. The thought of the first evil, that existed before god is loose is a thrilling thought. The thought of this entity "caring" makes me feel the show not taking itself seriously at all.

Oh yeah Emma. Forgot about her till you brought it up. I've covered the rest you mentioned so I'll finish with her. That's a toughie to remember. Let me start with a quote I ripped from the wiki:
Quote:
At some point they had a war, and their numbers were vastly depleted, as such they made a deal with Harmonia to save them from extinction, and she made them more than human, turning them into monsters.
After so many years of breeding this curse of being a monster could be hard wired into them. Yes they could display humanity but at the end of the day this evil within them will always win.

Quote:
Isn't the real take away for this show - free will. All have it they just don't know how to use it? .
The show can't just dish out free will like a delicacy. Sooner or later it will burst, leaving behind scraps of what the show once was. Sorry, inner writer in me getting too expresive. *cough* What I'm trying to say is this free will you talk of is just like deaths on the show. Allow me to explain:

Misha once said something regarding deaths on the show; it has to have meaning. If Bobby and Charlie came back, then died again what would you feel? Less shock? Likely. Don't care because they'd be ressurected again? What happens after it became too commonplace? You wouldn't feel shock or sadness. You would become bored eventually. I've always said the show treads a fine line with Sam and Dean's deaths. They've died enough times. I'll always remember that powerful shock when Sam first died. I felt nothing when Dean died in S9. You have to keep the soul invigorated. You can't keep giving out the same thing and expect it to be moved.

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If the baby is the darkness then isn't it simply lazy writing to go straight for the kill without pondering the idea that she could be raised to be good
I pondered and disliked it as I stated in my reasons above. I will partly say its due to me being a perfectionist and a writer.

But on topic; you are right, its not lazy writing. I gave it more thought (it was the heat of the moment, er sorry!). Now I just think it'd be poor writing. Anyway I already explained above somewhere in a way :)

Quote:
How does one go about being "The original evil" and yet an "amoral force" at the same time? I'm confused. If you have no sense of either then you just are. It would be on another who does to deem you right or wrong, evil or good based on their own moral code but who says that that person is right? By this thinking a shark is amoral. The fact that it may eat people now and again doesn't make it evil, it's just a shark. It's our fear that makes us see a shark as "bad" Our interpretation. The shark is just thinking "Yum! Carryout!"
Tsk. My bad. I mistook amoral for meaning immoral.

Phew.. that was a workout. I hope I didn't offend anyone with my views. xD I'm not the best person at debating, and to express what they think but I tried! Apologies for the rambles also..
Fazzie
# Fazzie 2015-10-11 07:43
Quote:
I'm not the best person at debating, and to express what they think but I tried! Apologies for the rambles also..
That is okay, as anyone can see I ramble too.

Quote:
In my view the Darkness sounds pure evil, just how I would imagine god is pure good
The problem is that in the show God isn't pure good - God is a dad who did a runner and has been secretly sitting on the sidelines while he's watched his adult children tear themselves apart over what they think he expects of them. At any point God could have stepped in during the heavenly civil war and stopped it by telling them to belt up, he could have helped out during the apocalypse, he could have stopped Naomi or Metatron but he hasn't and innocents have suffered because of it. That isn't pure good as we understand it.

The boys themselves aren't pure good even though they are the shows heroes, just last season Sam helped a man to sell his soul and did nothing to stop it being collected, Dean let his friend Rudy die because of hubris. That isn't acts of pure good.

Crowley acts with his own form of integrity even if it is at the detriment of collecting souls - so not 'pure' evil by our definition.

The darkness maybe framed in pure black/grey but the absence of light doesn't necessarily mean evil. She is a amoral force at the mo, not immoral as we don't know enough about her to say that is what she is and the accounts of her are second hand. For all we know is that in truth she is a force of nature who wouldn't play ball with God so got put in a prison. From God's POV evil, from ours not good, but neither is a hurricane or a volcano.

At the mo as she doesn't know Death, I'd say that she doesn't truly get life either, but we do know she can think, that means she is capable of thought and that may mean change if she wishes although at the moment she may be a completely reactive force.

That to me gives a huge scope to storylines as the boys trying to simply stop a force that is just so evil it scares heaven, hell and everything inbetween on a show that is at season 11 doesn't get my motor going. If they are all that scared then they all band together and fight her - break Lucifer and Michael out of the cage and that is it. No real questions about how do you save everyone, how does Sam and Dean change their MO's in the face of this and how do heaven and hell deal with their nightmare being out and about and it not really giving two hoots about how they feel about her.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-11 18:08
Quote:
The problem is that in the show God isn't pure good - God is a dad who did a runner and has been secretly sitting on the sidelines while he's watched his adult children tear themselves apart over what they think he expects of them. At any point God could have stepped in during the heavenly civil war and stopped it by telling them to belt up, he could have helped out during the apocalypse, he could have stopped Naomi or Metatron but he hasn't and innocents have suffered because of it. That isn't pure good as we understand it.
That's true. In the SPN universe a pure good entity seems rather bland and boring. Are you calling god evil for not doing anything? Or flawed? In this verse god seems flawed as any of his angels and humans. At first his intentions seemed good with sealing the darkness away. Then he makes angels and humans. But then it went wrong. Can god feel pressure? Perhaps other human feelings? I mean he did make us so I would say yes. Did he foresee the Apocalypse or did he contrive it because the pressure of everything weighed down on him.

Makes me think of the Darkness actually. Maybe during their battle she corrupted him? *shrug*

Quote:
The boys themselves aren't pure good even though they are the shows heroes, just last season Sam helped a man to sell his soul and did nothing to stop it being collected, Dean let his friend Rudy die because of hubris. That isn't acts of pure good.
Indeed. They are just human, like us. Humans, angels. They are as flawed in their own way as perhaps their creator. It would be a grand thing indeed if the Darkness corrupted god, tainting his creations.

Quote:
Crowley acts with his own form of integrity even if it is at the detriment of collecting souls - so not 'pure' evil by our definition.
You're using Crowley as an example? He's hardly the evil type. More the logical manipulative type with a hint of evil tossed in. Evil in my definition for example would be Azazel.

Quote:
For all we know is that in truth she is a force of nature who wouldn't play ball with God so got put in a prison. From God's POV evil, from ours not good, but neither is a hurricane or a volcano.
Evil comes in many forms and many levels. The black cloud that is released eventually turns the person it touched into evil and savage beasts. It seems to bring out the darkest part of their souls out, smothering what sense and humanity they had. She seems to be the manipulative type with a supreme air of control. I'd say she's evil, very evil.

Quote:
That to me gives a huge scope to story lines as the boys trying to simply stop a force that is just so evil it scares heaven, hell and everything in-between on a show that is at season 11 doesn't get my motor going.
It may sound simple but a good writer can oil that motor.

Sounds to me though what we want for the season is just different. Can't help that. :P
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-10 13:19
How does one go about being "The original evil" and yet an "amoral force" at the same time? I'm confused. If you have no sense of either then you just are. It would be on another who does to deem you right or wrong, evil or good based on their own moral code but who says that that person is right? By this thinking a shark is amoral. The fact that it may eat people now and again doesn't make it evil, it's just a shark. It's our fear that makes us see a shark as "bad" Our interpretation. The shark is just thinking "Yum! Carryout!"
Fazzie
# Fazzie 2015-10-10 14:12
Quote:
The shark is just thinking "Yum! Carryout!"
Maybe it is a cultural thing, but you say carryout to me I think someone is headed down to the local supermarket and is coming back with a six pack and a couple of bottles of cider. So now I have a picture in my head of a shark with an alcohol problem!
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-10-10 14:26
That kind of makes her a sociopath doesn't it? And also a force that can't be reasoned with. Yes we are afraid of the shark because he doesn't care that we are afraid or love sharks. We are just food. I imagine to the D we are insects (other than Dean). We don't mean anything to her.

And how did Dean get out of the car and what did the D save him from.
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-10-10 22:15
Quote:
How does one go about being "The original evil" and yet an "amoral force" at the same time
This is a good point and I lol at the shark analogy! I think it is correct to say that amoral means only out for survival or expansion of yourself. God and the angels couldn't proceed with creation until they got rid of the thing that was in their way. The "coolness" or lack of emotion in the woman Darkness made a strong impression on me. She wasn't threatened or threatening, happy, mad, resentful...or anything. She was very Spock-like. I found her "fascinating"!
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-10-11 15:17
I agree Nightsky. and I love the Star Trek shout out!
Jen
# Jen 2015-10-10 10:13
When the mark was removed from Dean did it go onto the baby Amara this would explain Dean psycacally being connected to her and would explain his visions this season Maybe this is a reason for his preminitions I feel what Dean is seeing is the future.
Why did she need to save him ?? Sam seemed ok after the Darkness washed over them. I wonder if its a warning of a later ep. Maybe the one called ??????. Sam & Dean might have been fighting demons Dean got into trouble and she saved him This would explain why she didn't know Death because she was born after Death was killed, Maybe the Darkness is like a croatoin virus, it infected those people to kill the baby because as she gets older she may have the power to put it back ???
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-10 11:12
Jen dear please don't post later episode titles. Or at least warn of spoilers. ^_^
Jen
# Jen 2015-10-10 19:41
Sorry yelloweyes since the next 9 eps are listed on this web site I didn't think it mattered or was a spoiler
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-10-10 22:26
I've been thinking about this. Usually we say spoilers are Ok in comments...but then people who don't want to read spoilers can't read or participate in comments. I don't want that! I am aware of spoilers (because I tweet the spoiler page) but I don't actually watch/read them because I have to keep my perspective, analysis and speculation pure (for Threads and my TV Fanatic commentary).

What do you all think if at the end of every review we have a standard link that says "spoiler free comments below; Spoiler rich comments go to our S11 discussion pages"?
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-11 00:51
I know Alice used to encouraged us to NOT put spoilers in the regular threads. So we had the Discussion pages or the News and Spoiler articles to go to if we wanted to share and discuss spoilers. That was fine. My question is, does an episode title qualify as a spoiler? I guess to some it is. What some people consider a spoiler, other people don't. With Supernatural the title is very often misleading anyway. It rarely gives anything away. Is speculating spoilery? Are we allowed to do that on non speculation threads? That's a lot of what people do here. Just curious.:)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-10 13:43
Maybe Sam and the cop were both okay because they were each in a car when the cloud passed? The cop stated she received the call, her cruiser was there so obviously she drove up then got out and encountered the rabids. Initially I thought it was because Sam got knocked out but there wasn't any indication that the same happened to lady cop even when she fell onto the rebar while taking cover. Or did she pass out and that was what took her so long to respond to the rabid about to charge Sam and Dean. I was a bit confused over the timeline thinking maybe she meant she fell while taking cover from The Darkness but since she was at a construction site taking on multiples it only made sense that it happened sometime on the scene after the cloud passed. In other words, after the fact.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-10 15:35
Speaking of "knocked out" Did Sam hit his head? It looked like something invisible hit him
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-10-10 15:55
Yes whatever it was hit him on the drivers side of his head. When he comes to he winces as he touches the cut on the left side of his face. Something took Dean and knocked Sam out.
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-10-10 22:18
See, I'm still trying to figure this out. I thought he just hit his head on the ceiling of the car.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-10-10 22:29
When Sam came to he winced when he touched the cut on his cheek on the left side. That would have been an awkward way to hit your head. I am going to re watch tonight. Since Dean was already out of the car we couldn't see how it would have affected him. So many mysteries in this episode.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-11 18:09
Someone needs to ask Jared xD
Jen
# Jen 2015-10-10 10:22
I agree the orgy scene was in character for Crowely but didn't fit with this episode BIG Thank you Nightsky beautifully written and thought out Thanks so much
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-10-10 11:02
Nice Threads article; a brand new puzzle to piece together for Season 11. I liked the woman who portrayed Crowley, as much as I enjoy Mark Sheppard, wouldn't have minded having her as Crowley for a couple of episodes. Could have done without the orgy nonsense, especially in this episode.

The conversation you referenced, between Dean and MoD (Manifestation of Darkness)

“…the same reason you’ll never hurt me. We’re bound Dean. We’ll always be bound. You helped me. I helped you. No matter where I am, who I am, we will always help each other.”

reminded me a little of Sam's conversation in his dream with Lucifer in 5.03 Free to Be You and Me -

"Sam. My heart breaks for you. The weight on your shoulders, what you've done, what you still have to do. It is more than anyone could bear. If there was some other way...but there isn't. I will never lie to you. I will never trick you. But you will say yes to me. "

In all likelihood, that baby is going to grow up really fast and end up playing the representation/ manifestation of the Darkness this season.

It's an interesting twist on early seasons, with Dean now "tainted" by an evil force, the Darkness. Besides being infected, I wonder if Sam will also be tainted; after all, he was the vessel for Lucifer, the first carrier of the Mark.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-10 12:10
Baffles me why the Darkness thanked Dean. Sam was the one who started this mess by using the book of the damned.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-10-11 08:40
I think the Darkness had more of a connection with Dean because he was carrying the Mark, which was holding back the Darkness, so for lack of a better term, it knew Dean
debbab
# debbab 2015-10-10 13:35
Agree with most of the review. Even the John Fogerty musical choice evoked the end of season one. Carver's attempt to get the show back to its basics works so far with many echos to past episodes. I found the Crowley possessing the housewife a bit uncomfortable. The demon Crowley goes after married couples who stray whether it be Lester or this current orgy loving bunch. Is Crowley becoming the morale compass- that just doesn't fit. And if he had every intention of killing as seen by doing it the old school way when he picks up the car jack, then is it to signal that Crowley has lost all humanity that was gained in the past seasons? Is it a return to base camp for the character? So many questions. Just kept thinking this is part I and part 2 is coming up next week. Carver crammed in so much, he needed two episodes to do it. Dean always carries out and rescues children. Sam always gets hit on the head or blood on. Even the humor was dark. I did enjoy watching Sam's face as Dean got in the car- this banter brought me back, but now they are physically apart and keeping secrets. They are always best when they are together. Let's see what part deux brings. Hoping.
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-10-10 22:22
I really wanted to explore the music choices for the episode. I sensed they were significant but I really didn't have the time to think about it (publishing deadline!). Has anyone given them a lot of thought? I'm curious.
Wednesday
# Wednesday 2015-10-10 23:24
Thanks to SupernaturalWik i the titles were posted. I have provided links to the songs here.
1. Opening song, "Run Through the Jungle" by Creedence Clearwater Revival
Truly awesome classic rock about being forced
to run through the chaos jungle aka Vietnam War.
But, it works here so well (bolded lines)
RUNTHROUGHTHEJUNGLE-LINK ("https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf_xZVhaAKs")
"Run Through the Jungle"
Whoa thought it was a nightmare
Lord it was so true
They told me don't go walking slow
The devil's on the loose
Better run through the jungle x 3 Whoa don't look back to see
Thought I heard a rumblin'
Calling to my name.
Two hundred million guns are loaded
Satan cries "take aim"
Better run through the jungle x 3 Whoa don't look back to see
Over on the mountain, thunder magic spoke
Let the people know my wisdom
Fill the land with smoke
Better run through the jungle x 3 Whoa don't look back to see

2. Song played during the orgy Tom Jones, “It’s Not Unusual”
The song is as icky as the orgy scene. The song seems to be about NOT sharing the person he loves.
IT'SNOTUNSUSUAL-LINK ("http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6azSHCHwPc")
To rewatch the opening scene with song click here:
SONGOPENERSPN-LINK-RUN.T.J. ("https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-YsWE4P1Kw")
The song was also used in 3.04 Sin City
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-10-11 19:01
thanks so much Wed! The music is always important!
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-10-10 22:32
This is going to be embarrassing if you have discussed this elsewhere, but is anyone else struck by the baby's name? Amara is so close to Amoral. I mis-typed Amara as Amora and realized it is just one letter short of amoral. Coincidence? Has anyone done a "name meaning" search on Amara? The dad's name was Michael (again coincidence with the archangel?) and the mother's name was Jane (I think). Two basic, common names...and they come up with Amara for the baby??

Also, did anyone else think Mike was trying to say something about the baby when he came back for her? I didn't think he was asking for her, I thought he was starting a sentence, "The baby...." what? What about the baby? Finish your sentence! Everyone assumed he was trying to get her but I wasn't so sure.
Jen
# Jen 2015-10-10 23:49
I thought he was just stating her name not trying to say anything else

Amara

The name Amara is a baby girl name.


Latin Meaning:
The name Amara is a Latin baby name. In Latin the meaning of the name Amara is: Beloved.

American Meaning:
The name Amara is an American baby name. In American the meaning of the name Amara is: Beloved.

German Meaning:
The name Amara is a German baby name. In German the meaning of the name Amara is: Eternal.

Greek Meaning:
The name Amara is a Greek baby name. In Greek the meaning of the name Amara is: Unfading.

Spanish Meaning:
The name Amara is a Spanish baby name. In Spanish the meaning of the name Amara is: Imperishable.

SoulUrge Number: 3
People with this name have a deep inner desire to create and express themselves, often in public speaking, acting, writing or singing. They also yearn to have beauty around them in their home and work environment.

Expression Number: 7
People with this name are excellent at analyzing, understanding, and learning. They tend to be mystics, philosophers, scholars, and teachers. Because they live so much in the mind, they tend to be quiet and introspective, and are usually introverts. When presented with issues, they will see the larger picture. Their solitary thoughtfulness and analysis of people and world events may make them seem aloof, and sometimes even melancholy.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-10-11 00:20
Jen beat me to it. But it did seem to me that Mike might have been trying to warn them or tell them that Amara was the name of the Darkness.
I would love it if the parents were Mike and Lucy.
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-10-12 11:05
Did this search when last season ended and we were speculating when the name came about:

"Amara Amara is a Greek name meaning eternal."
"Amara (Ancient Greek: ?????, Latin: Amarantha) was the world's very first immortal woman. She was once the personal handmaiden of Qetsiyah and is the ..."
"Amarantha (Amara for short) is a rare botanical name whose mythical equivalent was believed to be immortal. The Italian and Spanish form is the somewhat-more-a ccessible? Amaranta.

Is she good - bad? Minion - TD? or something else?. The name search shows that she might be immortal. Maybe she came out of lurkdom because TD was released and she could help the guys to defeat it? And of course is not too happy that the Winchester and company messed the whole place up. Or is she the mark? Also the botanical name implies that I tossed out what if TD is actually mother nature? Dean was among flowers and it seemed like a force of nature when it erupted. Somebody else said this too.

There are so many questions that we don't know for sure.

- Lilah
Jen
# Jen 2015-10-11 02:46
baby Amara'sparents names were Mike & Janie Janie name meaning is -- Gift From God and Mike's name means --- Who is Like God So if we are going on names this is interesting. Baby Amara who is meant to be evil and personnifies the Dakness was born of parents Who have God meanings in their names
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-10-11 19:06
I can't imagine that is a coincidence.. Gift from God and Like God produce a child that is Eternal, unfading, beloved and imperishable. That all seems very ...god-like. If we are looking for hidden clues, this would lend credibility to the theory I put forward in the Pre-S11 Threads, about the Darkness being the "Dark" side of God or even the dark side of the universe's soul. It really feels like we are onto something here.
Jen
# Jen 2015-10-12 02:34
i remember that thread - and it was a excellent idea & if it goes that way You would be very proud of yourself and you should be. It is a very heavy idea to put on paper (for the writers) Quiet a challenge The Darkness must be very very black /evil to need to be locked away. It is going to be a interesting Season - I hope they write it well