Largest Review/Discussion Fansite for Supernatural and SPNFamily Shows! Plot/Character Analysis, Spoilers, Games, News, Gallery, Interviews, Fun!


If a man beats a woman horrifically, she'll forgive him if he was "under the influence"
and if she
was behaving badly.


"There's No Place Like Home"

Writer:Robbie Thompson
Director: Phil Sgriccia
Air Date: January 27, 2014



If a man beats a woman horrifically, she'll forgive him if he was "under the influence"
and if she
was behaving badly.


A ruckus comes from a house on a suburban street. A man rushes down stairs, hands tied before him.
He tumbles onto his GREEN lawn. Panic stricken, he pleads,
"Please! I don't know anything else."
A dark figure responds, "I know. I'm gonna torture you anyway."        
Charlie (Felicia Day) steps into the light. "Cuz, who doesn't love a little torture?"


Castiel checks in with Sam via phone. Dean makes egg white omelets and places them
on the book laden table of the lit up library.
Dean's trying a "12 Step" program to control the Mark: no drinking, 8 hours of rack time a night,
and eating healthy. Sam notes it's only "3 Steps" but the omelet is "awesome."
Dean's disgusted, "It's crap. God. Soon as we get rid of this demonic tramp stamp,
I am back on the booze, burgers, and more booze."
(No broads?)
"Tell me you got something."
But, Sam doesn't. Hours of research continue.
Dean makes GREEN smoothies and gags on it like it's tequila.


Online, Sam finds unbelievable footage of Charlie beating a man.
Dean asks, "Our Charlie? Yea high, wouldn't hurt a Hobbit, practically sparkles?"
(Who would hurt a hobbit?)
Dean fails contacting her phone. Sam digs up information:
"District attorney in Topeka...(Yes, we are in Kansas) he wasn't the only person in town that was hit.
A court stenographer was assaulted the night before."
Dean suspects Charlie might have a good reason, "You know what we do, taken out of context,
it doesn't look that much different. She could be hunting."
They decide to investigate.


Alone in his bedroom, Dean stares at his trembling hand holding a blade.
Sam peeks in to ask if he's ready. Dean stuffs the blade into his duffel bag.



Sam and Dean discover that the Stenographer and District Attorney worked
on the Middleton case involving Charlie's parents.
They visit DA Peter Harper (Paul McGillion) who confirms all the "crazy bitch"
wanted to know was about an old case where a "drunk driver T-boned another car,
killing the driver, and the passenger was declared brain-dead on the scene."
He gives them a Social Services report on Charlie, maintaining the "case never went to trial," and all "the files were sealed."
He's withholding information. The stenographer wasn't released until she gave up a name.
Peter denies this.


Dean slams his chair back and leans into him repeatedly asking,
"What name did you give up?"
Fearfully, Peter admits he received money from an overseas account.
Not good enough!
Dean wants a name.


Dean terrifies him into spitting out the name,
"Councilwoman Barbara Cordry."
Back in Baby, Sam reads Charlie's file. Her name's Celeste.
She's looking for the person who destroyed her family.
Dean asks, "Can you blame her?"  
He realizes they need "to find her before she does something nobody can walk away from."



Agents Gabriel and Collins, ring the doorbell.
Barbara's (Iris Quinn) sorting accumulated vacation mail.
When Sam asks about the Middleton case, she claims to have "no idea what  They are talking about."
Her assistant would be happy to "pencil them" in for a meeting.
She shuts the door.


Dean comments, "Guilty much?" They return to Baby and their stake out.



Dean bites into a sandwich, “What the hell is kale?”


Sam reads Charlie’s file: "Anti-authority disorder, clinical depression, violent outbursts."  
Dean says reports done on them at that age wouldn’t be “all kittens and rainbows.”        
A scream galvanizes them.



They find Charlie with a choke hold on Barbara.
Charlie immediately insults them, "Rocket and Groot."
"Let her go!" Sam demands.
"Who?' Charlie cleverly asks while punching Barbara, "Oh. Her?"
Dean lectures her, "Since when do you start pounding on people for [answers]?
What the hell happened to you in Oz?"
Charlie got an adventure and a sword. She insults Sam, "all good-guy code, no bite. What a waste."
She then insults Dean by insulting Sam again, "Always letting this albatross hold you back."
Dean tells her to put the knife down because he doesn't want to "hurt" her.


                                                  Charlie makes a run for it and gets tackled in the foyer by Dean.                                           
                                                                       She puts him in a leg headlock.                                                                     
(Cringe. Hated this.)


(If it was supposed to be then it was an epic fail.)
She flips him, rises, and kicks him in the head.
Dean dashes out into a world of GREEN hedges, unable to see where she went.


Barbara says Charlie wanted Bank statements. Dean discovers Baby's slashed tire.
"Oh, you Son of a Bitch."
Charlie drives past in a dark SUV. Another Charlie pulls up in a YELLOW Gremlin.
"What's up, BITCHES?"


Seeing their confusion she adds, "We should probably catch up."



Embarrassed, Baby with her tire magically repaired, sits in front of Berto's Ale House (?) with the yellow Gremlin.
Charlie establishes she's split in two; the other Charlie is a badass dick ninja.
Sam wants the full story, "Dorothy, Oz, yellow brick road. But then . . . ?"

Charlie explains there was a "war for Emerald City."
The Wizard of Oz unleashed Charlie's inner darkness  to win the war. Dark Charlie broke the key.
Dark Charlie did some "truly awful things" but won the war.
They're "still connected physically. If you hurt her, you hurt me.
But bottom line, she's bad, and I'm good."

Dark Charlie wants to win Good Charlie back by seeking vengeance for their parents.
It's Dark Charlie's "messed-up way of showing me how close we are."
Good Charlie finds "being good really annoying. Normally in a place like this,
I'd be pounding Harvey Wallbangers and checking out the
bartender's ass.
Now all I want to do is sip club soda and send her to college
(Note to self: Drinking and hitting on someone is bad.)
Sam suggests they find Dark Charlie, "before she finds the drunk driver.
... Barbara gave up her old bank statements, right?That means Dark Charlie will probably
follow the money back to whoever made the
Dean gets refills while Sam persuades Good Charlie to hack Barbara's bank accounts.
Good Charlie can't do bad. Sam solves the problem by asking Charlie to guide him
"through the process, and then I'm the bad one."


At the bar, Dean eyes a bottle of Whiskey with longing.
When the bartender removes the bottle, Dean catches his reflection in a mirror.
He stares at his shaking hand. The Mark is jonesing.
Dean returns to where Sam and Charlie discovered "Russell Wellington had a car reported stolen the week of the accident...
... he went on a sabbatical ... and returned to work with bruises and a broken ankle."


Dean pulls Sam to the side for a private conversation.
Good Charlie reminds them, "Secrets are bad."
They don't want her around this Russell character.
She agrees to go to the Bunker with Sam.
Sam suggests, "Maybe I should be the one . .."
(Ya think?)
Dean says 'no'. He'll try to capture Dark Charlie when she comes for Russell.
Dean can't believe he has to protect that "piece of crap."
They remind Dean not to hurt Dark Charlie.
If she gets hurt, so does Good Charlie.


(Find Dorothy's basket)


Dean, eating almonds on a stakeout, listens to a self-improvement tape.
"The KEY to quieting your mind, is minding your quiet." He chucks the almonds and the tape.
Russell Wellington pulls his Mercedes in.
Dean enters the waiting room, signs his name Mr. Presley, and takes a seat.


Charlie and Sam, doing research, become curious about "Clive Dillon, Man of Letters who discovered
the KEY to Oz." He went to Oz, but left the KEY on earth. L. Frank Baum found the KEY
and went to rescue Clive in Oz. "Dorothy snuck along for the ride and got stuck there."
Baum rescued Clive and put him in a secret relocation program.



The assistant, (Paula Burrows) calls "Mr. Presley" for his appointment. Dean stalls.
He wants to finish the "Mammogram" article, "Riveting stuff."
(It's funny if you are of the sexist opinion that men don't care about Breast Cancer.)
No one's left. Dean must fake an interest in real estate while waiting for Dark Charlie.
Russell (Barclay Hope) instructs Piper, to look after his "dry cleaning" and dog.
Dean launches into a description of his "dream home."



Good Charlie speculates that Clive must be 100 years old although
"time passes differently in Oz." Clive gets a new name and house "which are still listed."
And, "he is the only person who might be able to fix the key to Oz." Sam decides,
"Let's go."



Dean's wants a Jacuzzi because he likes bubbles.
Russell's had enough, "Mr. Presley ...Judging from your cheap shoes and your faded jeans,
I'm guessing the only house you're in the market for comes with wheels. Now,
look, I'm a busy man. My time is extremely valuable. I prefer not to have it wasted by
some HAYSEED."
Despite Dean's claim he can buy, Russell wants to show him the door.
Dean cuts off the call to security informing the arrogant Russell that he's trying to save his life.
Dean reminds him of the long ago accident. Russell denies knowing about it.
Dean growls, "Oh, no, you wouldn't, 'cause you were too DRUNK to remember anything that night."
Russell says Dean's "insane" just as the lights go out.
Dean tells him to stay and leaves to see Dark Charlie in the waiting room.



Dean wants to talk.
She's not interested, "You Winchester boys and your talk. Blah,blah, blah, repressed feelings.
Blah, blah, blah, passive aggression."
Dean tells her she doesn't "want to do this."
Dark Charlie explains, "it isn't about revenge; it's about making him see what he did to me, to us. That's all.
Please, Dean. I deserve that. And then we hand him over to the cops."
She turns her blade over. Dean relents. Dark Charlie enters Russell's office.
Russell greets her as "Celeste" and apologizes.
Dark Charlie tells him, "You took everything from me."
She turns, slams and locks the door.
Despite Dean's pleading, Dark Charlie stabs Russell with a letter opener and disappears through the window.
Dean busts in see the damage.



Dean calls Sam in Charlie's Gremlin and updates them. Sam updates Dean.
They're on their way to Clive's in Junction City.
Dean stares at the whiskey shot.
The Bartender (Nesta Cooper) asks, "Are you gonna stare at that all night?" Dean's "pacing" himself.
Dark Charlie slides next to Dean, "She's cute." Dean accuses her of lying to him.
She maintains he lied to himself. She's "not the monster here. He was. He got what
he deserved. You know I'm right. You know what I learned about being dark? It sets you free.
And part of you knows that's right, too."


Clive Dillon (Duncan Fraser) denies being Clive until Good Charlie shows him the key.


( Minnesota Wild plays one's really watching.)
Dark Charlie ogles the bartender with Dean. She asks did the "princess me find a way back to Oz?"
Dean semi lies saying Sam and Good Charlie are getting the key repaired "in Grantville, two towns over"
and they'll "put you back to where you belong."
(Isn't that what Dark Charlie wants?)
If Dean's not going to make a move on the bartender, she will. She follows the bartender to a room behind the bar.
When the bartender returns, Dean asks, "Did my friend strike out?"
Dean's 'friend' "slipped out the back door."
Dean hears the rumble of Baby's engine.


Dean runs yelling, "No, no, no, no! Oh, you son of a bitch! Damn it."
He calls Sam, "Dick Charlie just hot-wired Baby.  She thinks she's on her way to you...
I told her the wrong town, so I probably bought
you a little time, but, just be on the lookout.
I'll be there as soon as I can jack a ride."



Clive reveals the keys can only be magically repaired in OZ. What happened to Charlie, happened to him.
"A coven of witches grabbed me. They used the inner key on me, unleashed my ID. He was awful.
He killed all the witches and went into a tantrum. Power-hungry, crazy. He became the Wizard of Oz."
Clive knows only ONE WAYto summon the Wizard.
He pulls out a gun and shoots himself.


Dean arrives in a jacked minivan.
Seconds later, Dark Charlie pulls in with Baby. Dean sticks out his tongue.
She knew Dean would lie about the location. (?)
Dean asks what the hell she wants. Dark Charlie wants to talk to Good Charlie.
(I thought she wanted to get back with Good Charlie.)
Dean doesn't want Dark Charlie "corrupting" Good Charlie. (?)
He warns her, "You take one more step, I'm gonna put you down."
She smirks, "There's the Dean I love."
Inside, a mirror emits a green light and explodes.
The Wizard (Carter Kinsella) of Oz, younger with a silly half mask, enters in a GREY robe.


He looks at Clive on the floor, "What have you done, you fool? You had but one task, stay alive.
And you couldn't even manage that." He disarms Sam, handcuffs him with GREEN rope lights, and sidelines him.
Good Charlie's mouth starts to bleed as Dean lands a punch.


Dark Charlie sneers, "You hit like a girl who never learned how to hit."
(Isn't that still sexist?)
She knocks Dean over a railing.
Sam begs the Wizard "Stop this, please! Let me help my friend."
The Wizard declares, "Your friend wanted to be a hero. And you know what happens to heroes? They die." (?)
He encircles Sam's throat with GREEN light preventing him from saying any more lines.


Dean punches Dark Charlie
and breaks her arm.


She falls on bricks. Dean sits on her and feeds her more punches.


Good Charlie knows what she has to do: shoot Clive, even though her arm is broken,
she's being punched in the face,
and she has no evil left in her soul. "I'm sorry."
Clive forgives her. She shoots Clive.
Clive/Wizard dies.
Sam carries Charlie outside and retrieves the key.


Dean sits on Dark Charlie alternating right and left blows.
Sam yells at Dean to stop and lays Good Charlie beside Dark Charlie who manages to talk,
"You did it, didn't you? You killed the wizard. I knew it. The magic was in you all the time. Celeste."
Sam gives the Key to Charlie and Dark Charlie sorbs into her.


Sam comforts Charlie. Dean looks guilty.



Two days later, Sam talks to Castiel on the phone, "We've got to find Cain!"
Dean listens. Charlie enters, telling Sam she feels "balanced."
She asks about his progress with the Mark. 
Sam shows her a picture of "The Book of the Damned" in a Tuscany library.

Charlie volunteers to check it out. She approaches Dean, "We are going to fix this. I'm not letting
what happened to me happen to you."
She says, "I forgive you, Dean." Dean does not forgive himself.
Charlie insightfully replies, "I know. Kind of your move. How's that working out for you?"
Dean apologizes, "I'm so sorry, kiddo."
Charlie tells him to, "Prove it."
They hug.


Charlie hugs Sam. "Arrivederci, bitches !"
Sam checks Dean, "You good?" Dean answers, "No."
Sam's motivated by Charlie, "She's right, Dean. You can do this. We can do this."
Dean agrees to "get to work." He stares at his steady hand.
The Mark has temporarily satisfied its bloodlust.



This script earns a ZERO for:



Charlie, a replica of Lisbeth and female empowerment, was introduced to the
Supernatural audience
in an epsiode with the same title. Like Lisbeth, she was embraced by fans.
It is not so much the borrowing of this character that's disturbing, as much as what was done to her.



The SEXISM in and behind the scenes of this episode are infamous.


These and other inspirations, and countless allusions make this episode unoriginal.
It is not just that there were heavily borrowed concepts; but, which pieces were used and how.  
"The Girl With a Dragon Tattoo" made a powerful statement about women and survivors of rape and abuse.
Here the empowering message was turned upside down.
"The Enemy Within" is a Star Trek epsiode still heavily criticized for its blatant sexism and horrific "rape culture" beliefs.
Here it was revalidated.
"The Wizard of Oz"  is a long time favorite for depiciting a female character as a powerful protagonist
on a quest and who triumphs over evil. Here it was made into a mockery. 


Dean's struggle with the Mark parallels the struggles of people with addictions.
This is not a new theme explored in Supernatural.
(Remember Sam's struggle with demon blood?)
Supernatural fans enjoy the way this show raises social consciousness about issues.
(Berens and Dabb recently explored Prostitution and the scum who prey on lost children.)
Charlie was banished to Oz, brought back, beaten and banished again. 
Why do that to this character?


Dark Charlie, like Dean, seeks vengeance for her parents who were destroyed.
She may have learned some Ninja skills but she's no match for Dean who pummelled the martial arts
expert, Cole. Every punch Dark Charlie takes, Good Charlie takes. Dean knows this.
The broken arm and blows were excessive.
We could blame the Mark but that's like excusing someone for being under the influence of

alcohol and drugs; a parallel clearly drawn.
The blow that knocked her down onto the bricks could kill.
The subsequent blows would cause fractured/ broken cheekbones, nose, jaw and dislodged teeth.


But, unrealistically her injuries are reduced to a few red marks; this diminishes

the impact of injuries experienced by abused women.
Why do this? 

To be socially conscious is to be aware of the problem of VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN in our culture.
This is an important sensitive issue.
There are a 1000 other ways to show the Mark's progression.
And, Charlie forgives Dean. Is that the message? Forgive men who beat women?
Why not send a more powerful anti-violence against women message?
SPN has been innovative in other areas. Why not trail blaze a healthier perspective and treatment of women?

SPN's had the power all along.
Why should we have to drink the MISOGYNISTIC POISON of our culture simply
because we love Supernatural?


And, while we're here, enough with the
"Bitch." It's a derogatory term that degrades women.
And no, just because Charlie says it, does not make it right.
It creates a climate, and an excuse, for men to use it.
See how that works?


1. How did Charlie get back from Oz with a broken key? Why did Dark Charlie break the key?

2. Why does Sam ask the DA if he heard noises or noticed any smells?

3. How does Dark Charlie slip past Sam and Dean on stakeout in front of Barbara's home?
She parks her SUV close enough to slash their tire and make a getaway before Dean can catch her.
Why does it take Sam so long to come to Dean's aid?

4. Why does Sam need help hacking into a bank account? Why didn't Dark Charlie hack
Barbara's account instead of beating her up?
5. Why does Dean tell Charlie anything about what Sam & Charlie are doing? He lied
about location but why even mention it?

6. Charlie knew Dean lied about the location. How did she know where to go?

7. Why does Dean prevent Dark Charlie from going into the house to join with Good Charlie?
Wasn't that exactly what they were trying to do?

8. If the Wizard's going to die with Clive, what's his motive for hurting Sam and Charlie?

9. Does the leather clothing on Dark Charlie get absorbed into Good Charlie?

10. Now they have possession of the inner key of Oz, shouldn't they return it, or at least contact Dorothy?
Why does Charlie say, "Look, there's no going back to Oz.
And with the Wizard gone, Dorothy will be fine."?

11. If Charlie's been recovering for two days why hasn't Dean apologized yet? 
Why was his character made to wait so long?  It's extremely unlikely Dean would do that.

12. Where were the arcs for Castiel, Crowley and Rowena? A few phone calls to Castiel ....
No Castiel and Oz!! ? Aw.

E8CASOZtumblr n69fy7CKGJ1tclp8mo1 500

13. Sam was sidelined. Not as bad as a "basement banishment" but he's relegated to research,
handcuffed, and
muted, while action tornadoes around him.
Sam, why does this keep happening?

E9tumblr m7ktjhxcsm1rziwwco1 400

14. Why bring Charlie back from Oz, just to beat her, banish her to Tuscany, and then

bring her back to ....


snuck in with a GREEN smoothie and escalated. Then, it stopped??

Clive's home and the Wizard's robe weren't green.
The half mask on the Wizard was laughably LAME

as were the green light SFX.
Twinning or doubling could have been used.

An overkill of Over the Shoulder/ Ear Shots created an almost permanent
blur in the corner of the screen. Very blurry especially the High Angles.
(Not the usual awesome we expect.)



Philip Sgriccia /Serge Ladouceur










(Bottle of schnapps named for Matt Tichenor (1st Ass. Camera)



Ackles was amazing! But, the difficult role made Felicia a star.

Congratulations Felicia Day!




Barclay Hope (Russell Wellington) played Professor Cox 2.15 "Tall Tales"

Paul McGillion (Peter Harper ) played Jim Grossman 5.05 "Fallen Idols"
Duncan Fraser (Clive Dillon ) played Odin 5.19 "Hammer of the Gods"


Barbara's house was used in 8:18 "Freaks and Geeks"




Supernatural Wiki
Home of the Nutty Screencaps
Gifs: talktumblr, alrnighty.tumblr, sam-moosewinchester.tumblr,
Punchtumblr, allthesupernaturalgifs.tumblr. ,
Memory Alpha



These are Form2Content LITE template parameters. In PRO you can access and display all the Joomla article data like section, category and author info.

Artice title: RearView Review "There's No Place Like Home"
Title alias: wip-rearview-review-there-s-no-place-like-home
Article URL (raw output, great for custom 'read more'): index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19392:wip-rearview-review-there-s-no-place-like-home&catid=110:to-be-published
Joomla Article ID: 19392
Start publishing: 03-08-2015 22:07:27
Stop publishing: empty
Article create date: 03-08-2015 22:07:27
Article modified date: 19-08-2015 10:42:09


# JoDee 2015-08-11 16:25
You read my mind! Exactly! If this show made as many racist comments as it does sexist ones people would lose it. I noticed the Kill Bill reference and it irritated me. Beatrix Kiddo? Dean called Charlie ‘kiddo’. Beatrix was a kickass vengeful ninja woman. And Good Charlie? It’s like they were poking fun at this female warrior and all the other ones too. What’s next? Put Katniss Everdeen in a cage and poke her with a stick? Definitely some fucked up thinking behind this episode. Thanks for the compelling review Wednesday!
# Wednesday 2015-08-12 22:33
(JoDee) Good point. Although I recognized Beatrix’s car I forgot about the “Kiddo.” I agree she was another empowering woman and rape survivor. Most peculiar. Taking iconic empowered fictional females who have survived rape and violence, (Beatrix, Lisbeth and Janice Rand) to be mocked and beaten and using empowering females such as Dorothy and Elphie and reducing them to trivial unimportant figures was exasperating. Why ???? (Just an aside, I don’t think you should use the “F” word on this site, although I certainly understand your frustration.) Thank you for commenting and for getting my point. It's appreciated.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-08-11 18:46
Hi Wednesday. I didn't really like this episode either but not for all of the same reasons as yours. I thought much of it made no sense, but I didn't really care enough to try to make sense of it because I absolutely hated the whole Oz storyline. I thought Slumber Party was jaw-droppingly bad because the Oz plot was ridiculous and seemed totally out of place on SPN. From that hokey witch, to the flying monkeys seen through the door, to Charlie and Dorothy's crossing over into Oz, it was the most embarrassingly cheesy thing I've ever seen on the show by a wide margin. I actually thought TNPLH was marginally better, largely because of Dark Charlie. I was not a Charlie fan for various reasons, but I actually got a kick out of Dark C. But so much else was wrong with the ep. Robbie T of late has generally sidelined Sam IMO, giving him little of interest to do or say, but this is the first time he LITERALLY gagged him! Dean was made to look inept and foolish when he let Charlie best/outmaneuve r him three times! and Dean is neither inept nor a fool. And now that you point it out, I guess it was kind of derivative of other films/TV shows. That alone isn't a deal-breaker for me, as long as it adds some new wrinkle or something fresh. Finally, like you I hate Charlie's use of "bitches." I just don't find it amusing at all.

But unlike you, I don't see rampant sexism in the episode. Throughout its 10 years, SPN has been remarkably free of sexism IMO. The most glaring exception has been the way Dean has often objectified women, ogling them openly. But even so, Dean has usually treated the female guest stars and recurring characters in a non-sexist fashion. He has readily acknowledged them as smart, competent, and strong people and he has typically accorded them the respect they deserve. And when you look at the roster of women characters that Lilah highlighted in her article from a few weeks ago, there's nary a one who was a stereotypical love interest or weak damsel in distress. I thought that one of the few times in which Dean and the show have displayed a sexist attitude was regarding the circumstances surrounding Charlie's death. I found Dean's anger at Sam for involving Charlie to be extremely sexist. To him, she was the weak, defenseless woman whom Sam bullied into risking her life, rather than the brilliant, tough woman who had chosen the hunter's life and who had been competent enough to elude the Stynes on a merry chase around the world, even taking some of them out with her super ninja fighting skills. Contrast Dean's attitude in this case with his attitude towards Kevin, the teenage AP student. Kevin never chose to be involved in the battle against evil and he had none of the skills or knowledge that would have suited him for it. He wanted out of that life, yet the brothers repeatedly dragged him back in, Dean even telling him to suck it up and do what Dean needed him to do. Dean was remarkably unsympathetic whenever Kevin talked about wanting out. Kevin was completely unskilled at combat and had none of Charlie's hunting/fightin g skills. Yet Dean never displayed any guilt at drawing Kevin into their world, with all of the risks it entailed; he was only sorry about his role in Kevin's death. Dean never questioned the morality of literally bullying Kevin into helping the brothers because he had unique skills that they needed from him. Yet Dean condemned Sam's actions in ASKING Charlie to utilize her unique skills to help Dean, with Charlie being fully aware of all of the attendant risks and fully capable of defending herself. You could argue that Dean's attitude differed because Charlie was like a little sister to him, but Kevin was like a little brother. The truly significant difference was that Charlie was a woman.

I also don't agree that Dean's beating of DC and Charlie's forgiveness of him is tantamount to condoning or justifying violence against women. Dean was fully justified in fighting DC, a capable fighter who had just murdered one person, beaten another man senseless for the sheer joy of it, and had attacked another women at knifepoint. Once Dean had effectively subdued DC, of course he should have ceased beating her, especially since it was harming GC, but the influence of the MOC prevented him from doing that. I don't think that the MOC is analogous to booze or drugs, because being drunk or high doesn't necessarily or even typically result in acts of violence, whereas the MOC DEMANDS to be sated by violence. So Charlie's forgiveness made sense, since Dean's beating of DK was certainly not symptomatic of some underlying tendency of Dean's to abuse women. It occurred purely to show that Dean was in fact "getting worse." You are correct that

There are a 1000 other ways to show the Mark's progression
But they had already shown Dean massacring a roomful of men. And in the unsettling logic of the show that wasn't SO bad because they were all thugs. So beating DC was a much more telling sign of the worsening effect of the MOC, because this was his little sister he was hurting. And the fact is that, while Charlie forgave Dean, he didn't forgive himself.

SPN depicts violence in virtually every episode, but not once have I thought that the show was excusing or justifying or whitewashing violence against women. I love the matter-of-fact portrayal of women like Jody, Donna, and Mary Winchester who risk their lives to fight evil and occasionally are the victims of violence as a result. In this, they are no different than Sam and Dean.
disgruntled ex-viewer
# disgruntled ex-viewer 2015-08-12 07:37
samandean10, I agree with you completely. I only wanted to add that the show puts across the idea that we shouldn't always agree with characters' point of view. We should check every opinion of the character against the facts shown or against our own moral stand. In this particular case why should we conclude that if Charlie forgave Dean, his actions are forgivable? It only shows the personality traits of Charlie, nothing else. The personal opinion of the character is just his personal opinion, which reveals their character, nothing more. If Dean blames Sam for Charlie's death, distaurting the facts, by the way, and Sam blames himself, it doesn't mean Sam is to blame, it only reveals us some facts about Dean's and Sam's characters. The same with the drinking demon blood and taking on the Mark of Cain. The only difference between the two was that the first was condemned by all the characters, and the second wasn't. (BTW, there was another difference too. Drinking demon blood didn't really turn Sam into a monster. The Mark of Cain did that to Dean. Does that mean, that the Mark of Cain is worse, or does it tell us something about the personalities of the characters? An interesting question. In my opinion it's both). Does that really mean that drinking demon blood is worse than the Mark of Cain? Or we were told in the show more than once that killing a baby-eating monster is much worse than torturing souls, then what? Was I supposed to agree with that? We are free to agree or disagree with characters according to our own perspective, to our own outlook on life. What the show really teaches us is not to be manipulated and not to be subjected to evaluations instead of the facts.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-08-12 14:44
We are free to agree or disagree with characters according to our own perspective, to our own outlook on life. What the show really teaches us is not to be manipulated and not to be subjected to evaluations instead of the facts.
It's interesting that you mention this because I had actually started writing an article on a related subject (which has been gathering dust the last month or so!) I love that SPN typically does present different perspectives on the thorny issues facing the brothers, and seemingly leaves it up to each viewer's judgment. But on some occasions the show seems to be trying to convince the viewers of a particular viewpoint. Last season we saw virtually every character, dead and alive, questioning Sam's efforts to rid Dean of the MOC. And the outcome of those efforts was catastrophic, to say the least. Therefore it seemed to me that TPTB were clearly indicating that Sam was in the wrong- not that he deserved all the blame, because many of the events in the show demonstrated Dean's culpability as well. Yet taking into account the full history of the show, with everything I had seen and learned about the characters, I personally felt that most of Sam's actions were justified. Essentially I rejected what seemed to be the show's viewpoint. I agree with you that the words and actions of the brothers are best viewed as indicative of their characters rather than of some "correct" point of view.
disgruntled ex-viewer
# disgruntled ex-viewer 2015-08-12 16:13
Therefore it seemed to me that TPTB were clearly indicating that Sam was in the wrong- not that he deserved all the blame, because many of the events in the show demonstrated Dean's culpability as well.
The same was in seasons 4 and 5. The show demonstrated that both of them played their part, but only Sam took the full responsibility, and every character put the blame only on him. Remember Castiel's words about breaking the first seal (It's not your fault, it's your fate) and about the last seal (to Sam: You couldn't make the right choice)? We should have already got used to that. I have the feeling that the authors intentionally clash facts and their evaluations to see what will happen and when the viewers at last start to doubt the characters' opinions if they contradict the facts. Look, the first and the last seals might have been anything, anything at all, but the authors chose an appalling action necessary for breaking the first seal and quite justifiable action necessary for breaking the last, and then every character in the show justified the first and condemned the last. Why to do so, if not to make us disagree with them? I wasn't a fan and didn't give a second thought to the show, but but thanks to you guys here :), I'm quite hooked now. And I thought about the themes of the show, and now I think we have to deal with so-called "unreliable narrators", and the only means to identify them are close consideration of the facts, our conceptual knowledge of the world, and complete disregard of such things as characters' opinions. If you know that beating women is bad, then it's always bad, and so on. Let's take Charlie's death, for example, one phrase from the Stynes, that Charlie got on their radar because of Sam, would have shown that Sam can be blamed for her death, but in fact we have the phrase from the Stynes that they lost her because of Sam. The same was in The Purge. We have been shown how Sam rushed towards the slightest threat to Dean and his words in the end. A clsh of words and facts. So they show us one thing and give us opinions contradicting the facts. We deal with "unreliable narrators", that's without doubt.
# anonymousN 2015-08-12 10:40
I also don't agree that Dean's beating of DC and Charlie's forgiveness of him is tantamount to condoning or justifying violence against women. Dean was fully justified in fighting DC, a capable fighter who had just murdered one person, beaten another man senseless for the sheer joy of it, and had attacked another women at knifepoint. Once Dean had effectively subdued DC, of course he should have ceased beating her, especially since it was harming GC, but the influence of the MOC prevented him from doing that. I don't think that the MOC is analogous to booze or drugs, because being drunk or high doesn't necessarily or even typically result in acts of violence, whereas the MOC DEMANDS to be sated by violence. So Charlie's forgiveness made sense, since Dean's beating of DK was certainly not symptomatic of some underlying tendency of Dean's to abuse women. It occurred purely to show that Dean was in fact "getting worse." You are correct that

There are a 1000 other ways to show the Mark's progression
agree completely
# spnlit 2015-08-13 17:51
I agree with your comments about the lack of sexism in the violence depicted on SPN. SPN treats all persons equally. Women characters outmaneuver, outsmart and beat men on this show just as much as male characters do the same to women characters. I also do not think this episode was used to condone in any way domestic violence. Dark Charlie was all that was dark and evil about Charlie to the extreme. Dean was under the influence of the MOC; he was a demon- like at times and the MOC took over in this scene. (Not getting into the commentary of how the writing was unclear in the depiction of the MOC storyline). The two fought. They were equals. Dark Charlie killed a human man. MOC Dean also hurt/killed human men including Sam. Balanced Charlie forgave Dean in the same way Sam, Cole, and Castiel forgave Dean. Domestic Violence is also not just about women; it is about emotional and physical abuse /violence in a domestic situation. Then I guess, MOC/ Demonlike Dean almost killing Sam with a hammer could also be seen as domestic violence. How about when Soul- less Sam tried to kill Bobby. More Domestic violence!!!! No, this is a violent television show but it does not condone, send a message or glorify domestic violence or violence of any kind against women.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-08-13 19:06
I completely agree spnlit. In fact, this scene was one of the few times that I thought the effects of the MOC were clearly evident. The look on Dean's face as he continued to beat Charlie was almost inhuman, and it took Sam's intervention to get through to him and halt the beating. It never occurred to me to regard this as an example of domestic violence by a regular man against a regular woman because, as you pointed out, the circumstances presented here seemed so far removed from that.
# BoGirle 2015-08-11 19:53
I didn't enjoy this one either. You've outlined beautifully all the things that went awry here. You summed up really well all of the pretty glaring social problems and sexist attitudes, so I am going to focus on other (more mundane) things that I didn't really like about this episode.

I never liked the foray into OZ in the first place in Slumber Party and didn't like it here either. I don't like the increasing reliance on fantasy evidenced by things like Oz, The Frankensteins, spell works, witches etc.. I think it diminishes the show as a whole and makes it less realistic. There were plot holes galore here. Why did Dark Charlie spend so much time trying to ditch Good Charlie if she supposedly wanted to rejoin with her all along? Killing people is supposed to endear herself to someone who can't do any wrong at all? How did she find out where Sam and Good Charlie were if Dean lied about their location? Why didn't Dark Charlie just hack into all the law and bank records herself to get the info she needed? Ugh. None of this was addressed at all.

I didn't like how much Sam was side lined.. something that happened a LOT in season 10. He goes off with Good Charlie, and other than getting to play dumb (he can't hack into a bank account? Really?), getting overpowered ridiculously easily and rendered mute, he was barely in this episode and was grossly ineffectual. There was a nice scene between Dark Charlie and Dean; anvils were flying thick and fast in a parallel that was completely obvious and forced to the point that I was rolling my eyes rather than enjoying a clever connection. But was there a corresponding scene between Sam and Good Charlie? They went to all the trouble to point out Sam's "good guy code" and then pair them up by putting them together in a car, but that scene was a single comment of "It's always something with you two" by Charlie and that was it. No conversation about being good or having integrity, or pushing the line when necessary something Charlie did in this episode and Sam did this season. IMO Good Charlie and Sam had a lot in common and it would have been nice to get some Sam insight for a change, but I guess the writers can't be bothered. It pissed me off. There was all this film of Dean sitting in the car eating crap he didn't want to eat, Dean gazing into mirrors, sitting in bars and waiting in waiting rooms basically doing nothing. Couldn't they have trimmed some of that uselessness to give Sam and Charlie one single scene where they connect? Dean and Dark Charlie connected over their "darkness" but were Sam and Good Charlie allowed to connect over their goodness? No... that would be a waste of time when we could be spending those precious minutes watching Dean eat kale.

Dumb Dean Alert! The writers made Dean so incredibly dumb in this episode. He actually bought into Dark Charlie's "I'm only going to talk to him" act? What was it about being the completely evil half of a split personality does Dean not get? That was so incredibly poorly written. If they had made Dean make his decision because of the mark... wanting to see that asshole get his because of his curse, then it might have worked, that might even have been interesting, but that's not what they did. And they made sure that the guy who killed Charlie's family was sufficiently reprehensible so that we wouldn't hold that cold blooded murder against her too much... I mean he deserved it after all. Another thing that bugged me was the series of fights with Charlie. They had Dean with the mark, able to fight off Cas, Cole, Sam, a roomful of Steins and a room full of drug dealers, but he got his ass kicked by Charlie? Why? Later he was shown to be completely capable of besting her, except this one time? I think they were trying to play it for humor (little girl beats up big tough man and isn't that funny, also pretty sexist) but the scenes must be probable, humor or no humor and it's highly improbable that Charlie, split personality or no could take on and beat MoC Dean especially not with that embarrassing leg lock. Then later he completely pummels her knowing that every hit was doing harm to Good Charlie. He could have killed her easily. I suppose this was supposed to be a moment where the mark was taking over, but it wasn't obvious enough. I know as viewers we don't appreciate obvious tells like arm grabs, but here it would have been nice, or if it was filmed to show that Dean was in a trance, or visions of the mark flashed, something..... It suppose it was an attempt to show how much "danger" Dean was in, but it didn't work at all well. And quite frankly I am tired of the mirror trope. It was overused again here and is becoming cheap. Did Sam get a mirror scene to indicate his inner thoughts this year? Last one I can remember is season 5. I guess no one cares what Sam is thinking, especially not this season.
disgruntled ex-viewer
# disgruntled ex-viewer 2015-08-12 08:41
I guess no one cares what Sam is thinking, especially not this season.

I think that the finale compensated it. I mean the contrast between his all-forgiveness and Dean's inability to forgive anything was striking, to say the least. That was biblical. I was wondering if he would grow the wings. Oh, wait... Already happened. :D
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-08-12 15:27
Dean and Dark Charlie connected over their "darkness" but were Sam and Good Charlie allowed to connect over their goodness? No... that would be a waste of time when we could be spending those precious minutes watching Dean eat kale.

E, I hadn't thought about it that way but you're right. I had read that there was a slightly more extended scene of Sam and Charlie talking in the car, but apparently that was not as important to the plot as the kale scene! I thought the scenes of Dean listening to the tape and making faces at the kale were amusing, but my problem is that being given priority over a meaningful scene involving Sam and Charlie. Hence my displeasure with Robbie T. To him, anything Dean does or says, no matter how trivial, is more interesting than anything he could script for Sam.
# cheryl42 2015-08-12 16:54
Robbie Thompson was not happy that the scene between Sam and Charlie had been cut. On the gag reel another scene with Sam and Maeve was shown that didn't make the episode. The writers write the script, the scenes are shot and the editor, director and whoever else (not the writers) decide what gets to stay or not. Robbie is also a fan of Jared/Sam he can't control what Carver and Singer want to include in the overall story arc for the season.
After all Robbie always wanted to write an episode for Sam before he hit the ******* dog.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-08-12 17:37
OK I give up- who is Maeve? I'm drawing a blank.
I had read that about RT wishing that scene hadn't been cut, but I still think all of the fun but trivial Dean scenes in the script compared to the sole meaningful Sam scene (and who knows how long it was) are evidence of RT's status as a Dean fan. I think most of his scripts the last couple of years really gave Sam short shrift. So it is a shame that when he finally writes a meaningful interaction between Sam and Charlie it doesn't make it into the episode.

Never mind Cheryl. I just remembered who Maeve is!
# Lilah_Kane 2015-08-12 18:41
SanD, this is not for you fully than about this issue in general from other sites, twitter etc. So I agree with Cheryl. RT has said quite many times that he has written Sam scenes that have been left out (Not his choice). The trouble is that for a writer the ultimate sin seems to be to say even if it is in general to like to write for one character better because it turns back to "OMG he hates my char and doesn't want to write to it!" 1. He has said nothing of the sort 2. He didn't say "He will write only to one character because he likes to write only to him".

We are allowed to like who we are allowed to like, like he is allowed to like who he is. Although even I feel like I am judged on what I like so I have stopped saying it just because of that reason. Some people it might turn to bias but some not. RT is a writer and professional. Anyway, mostly my point is because he said what he said people are holding it against him and not looking past it. This goes all around so I hope none of the writers will ever reveal which character they "like" more because some of the reactions well... are bad to say the least.

- Lilah
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-08-12 19:22
Lilah, I certainly don't think RT hates Sam, and some of his non-Charlie episodes have had meaningful roles for Sam in the story. But in my opinion in five of the seven Charlie episodes (as well as in some other RT episodes) Sam was given relatively little to do, while Dean was involved much more significantly in the plot and also had nice bonding moments with Charlie. In fact, my only gripe with Fan Fiction is that Dean had a much meatier role in that story than Sam did, which was particularly galling since it was the historic 200th episode. I truly think RT simply enjoys writing Dean more than Sam. And I don't base that on anything RT said, but on the episodes themselves. It was only this past spring that I read somewhere on the site that RT has acknowledged being a Dean fan- I don't even know specifically what, if anything, he actually said. But if true, that statement merely explained what I have perceived in his episodes for awhile- that as a writer, his interests gravitate more towards Dean. I know everyone views the episodes differently, and I do think his writing is often excellent. I just wish it wasn't so often skewed towards Dean, because my interests are skewed more towards Sam.:D
# Lilah_Kane 2015-08-13 00:45
It is alright. That was an example from "around there" about the drastic ones. And there is nothing wrong wanting people to skew to the same way you are skewing. :)
Would make things easier for sure in the fandom, but like we know it is highly unlikely. :D

- Lilah
# cheryl42 2015-08-12 21:10
This episode was meant as a parallel between DC and Dean. Since this was Dean's struggle (not Sam's story yet) the episode was about Dean losing his grip or control over the Mark. The relationship between DC and GC was of course Good Dean vs MOC evil Dean. I understood why the episode was about how Dean was trying to stay one step ahead of the evil inside him by trying to live a healthier lifestyle (a page from the Sam Winchester playbook in how to live with Hellucinations- speed walking, healthy diet etc.). It wasn't about Sam. His big moment came in the BOTD. When he saw finally how he was going to save Dean. Then Sam's story started to take off.

We don't get to read the scripts so we have no idea how many scenes were cut. My only point is that the writers don't control what gets left in the episode after it is filmed. That seems to be up to the director and the editor. I follow RT on twitter before and after the episodes he writes (same for Berens) and they comment on scenes that were cut from episodes. They understand why a scene was cut because it may not have made sense or revealed to much for future episodes. Doesn't mean they are happy about it.

Maeve in FF was Marie's assistant. In the gag reel it looks like there was a cute scene between Sam and Maeve (again written in the script) that was edited out for whatever reason.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-08-12 22:33
His big moment came in the BOTD. When he saw finally how he was going to save Dean. Then Sam's story started to take off.
And therein lies my problem with S 10. You are correct that Sam's story doesn't start to take off until Ep 18.:(
# cheryl42 2015-08-12 23:28
I agree up until then he was very much in the background looking concerned, tied up, knocked out.....but when his story finally did take off it was the best part of the season I thought. Sam was making some really big moves and making some very risky decisions. He was the character that centered the others to his plan. For good or bad. I enjoyed it very much.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-08-13 00:39
but when his story finally did take off it was the best part of the season I thought.
Agree 100%! the last batch of episodes redeemed the season for me and put it ahead of S9.
# BoGirle 2015-08-13 06:16
This episode was meant as a parallel between DC and Dean. Since this was Dean's struggle (not Sam's story yet) the episode was about Dean losing his grip or control over the Mark.
But clearly RT meant to create a connection between Charlie and BOTH the brothers given his comments about the cuts that were made, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered even writing a scene between Good Charlie and Sam. RT intended there to be a connection because dramatically it's more interesting to have both brothers involved. It's the Carver and/or Singer who took that scene out because he'd rather watch Dean eat kale or stare silently into mirrors over and over. I also don't agree that the mark was only Dean's struggle, or at least it shouldn't have been. Since when was Dean ever left out of a struggle Sam was having ? Never is when. He was front and center for every single ting Sam went through; the visions, the demon blood, the soullessness, the hallucinations, the trials, the possession. Hell most of what Sam went through become more about Dean than about Sam and Dean as a character has never been excluded from what is going on with Sam. But when it's Dean's turn to go through something, it's "Dean's Struggle" so who cares about what Sam's going through, it's irrelevant. Or you might think that by how little of Sam we've been getting. It makes TPTB look biased when they choose scenes of Dean eating Kale over Sam in an important heart to heart with another character; well to me it does anyway. I think the episode, which was NOT a good one, would have been vastly improved by including Sam in Dean's story as RT intended. I think the entirely to season 10 would have ben improved if everyone had remember that there are two brothers and that when one is struggling it affects the other and that we need to see that struggle from both sides the way we saw Dean struggle with Sam's demon blood and the trial and the possession. Instead of having one brother struggle and the other brother flitting around in the background being ineffectual and ignored.
# cheryl42 2015-08-13 09:44
Yes I was pointing out that the way the episode was edited was to show Dean's struggle. Not so much Sam's.
# lala2 2015-08-12 22:50
I don't remember who Maeve is. Who was she?

ETA: It seems she was in FF - an episode I hated and would never watch again.
# cheryl42 2015-08-12 23:24
She was very cute and had a lot of snark. I liked her a lot. She got paired with Sam/Jared and she was so tiny next to him. Very funny character.
# BoGirle 2015-08-13 06:29
She got paired with Jared and spent the majority of the episode mocking Sam as a character. Name one meaningful discussion that those two had? While dean was off having one meaningful discussion with Marie after another, Sam was with Maeve getting insulted and dismissed. Did Maeve and Sam talk about brotherhood? Did Sam discuss his feelings for Dean with Maeve? Dean did with Marie, telling her all the things he SHOULD have been discussion with Sam but never will. Sam didn't even get a voice, he just got made fun of.
# cheryl42 2015-08-13 09:49
I don't know what Sam and Maeve talked about. They only showed the one very small clip on the gag reel. It was a fun light hearted episode and maybe showed Dean how he really feels about his brother. It's all in your own perspective I suppose.
# BoGirle 2015-08-13 20:16
All we ever get is how Dean feels about his brother.... a little equality would be nice from time to time IMO, but we rarely if ever see it. I thought Sam was appallingly overlooked in the all important 200th episode. At a time when the show as a whole was being celebrated only the journey of one brother was profiled and made important. It doesn't really matter if a writer intended us to see a heart to heart between Sam and Maeve, someone decided it wasn't as important as the three or four heart to hearts between Marie and Dean or watching Jensen break the fourth wall as he commented on his loathing for Destiel.
# cheryl42 2015-08-13 23:41
I don't know it just didn't strike me as an episode that was story heavy. It was a fun, clever way to have a musical episode of SPN and I enjoyed every minute of it. I don't really think anyone was disrespecting Jared. It was just a sweet harmless episode of SPN. Whether Sam got a fair share of the scenes or not I thought Jensen was hilarious as was Jared. It had sweet moments and Jensen breaking the fourth wall was perfect. Sam teasing Dean about Destiel was so funny. I loved that all three "Sams" saved the day. The girls did a fantastic job. They put every thing they had into that episode and it showed. The songs were inventive and catchy. I was singing John and Mary while I was working this morning. I loved the Carry On version sung by a sixteen year old with a voice like an angel (and that fan made video of the tea light tribute with her singing brought me to tears. I was doing ok until then). I loved that Sam and Dean's whole "family" was on stage singing that song to their sons. I really loved everything about it.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-08-13 09:06
Lala, I'm curious about why you hated FF so much. I thought it was well-liked for the most part, so if you feel like elaborating I'd love to hear what your main criticisms are.
# BoGirle 2015-08-13 20:18
The more time that goes by, the less and less I like it as well.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-08-13 22:33
Sadly, I feel the same way. On my first viewing, I was caught up in the novelty of it and I enjoyed the humor and the music, which I thought was excellent. I was, however, very disappointed with Sam's role compared to Dean's for the reasons you stated. I watched it twice more and while I still enjoyed much of it, I found myself even more aggravated by how the episode focused pretty much exclusively on Dean's reaction to the whole thing. So my opinion of the episode dropped quite a bit! Yet it was like a masterpiece compared to many of the subsequent episodes.:D
Disgruntled ex-viewer
# Disgruntled ex-viewer 2015-08-12 21:08
my interests are skewed more towards Sam
It's because he lacks point of view :D We know everything about Dean, as for Sam, he is an enigma, even after 10 years. I prefer to stay it that way. Last seasons they tried to invent some new layers to Dean's character, but it's difficult to rewrite an established character after 7 years of his POV. They just messed up with Dean's character adding nothing, but just blowing out of any reasonable proportions both positive and negative traits of his character. As a result at best he looked inconsistent, at worst... I won't go there. But they seem not to want to reveal too much about Sam's mindset as well, I prefer to think it is because they need him to remain a mystery. That's probably why they refused to tell Dean's storyline from Sam's point of view. But the result of these experiments was mainly (with some fortunate exceptions) an infinite saga about how beautifully Dean can kill.