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Fans had very mixed reactions to Supernatural’s “Angel Heart”. Some were warmly wrapped in its emotions declaring it as one of their series favorites while others were bored to distraction. Personally, I liked the story. Would I have preferred an action packed, intense progression of Dean succumbing to the Mark of Cain and Sam going to dark and scary extremes to save his brother? Absolutely. The last few episodes built a momentum that was both engrossing and exciting. The abrupt interruption in that accelerating tension was jarring and probably what disappointed a lot of people. A quiet focus on Castiel and his family seemed oddly placed but I can frankly think of several reasons why it was inserted this late in the season. Having said that, the “all or nothing at all” intensity of Supernatural’s episodes this year is giving me whiplash.  With only four episodes left, the many plotlines should be intertwining, showing us how they will all dovetail together to the big finale. The energy should be continually building to the inevitable, crushing crescendo. “Angel Heart” was not that show.

So why did I like it? Probably because I enjoy the “saving people” side of the show as much as I love the “hunting things” side. I am drawn to the love, family, tender, emotional aspects of the characters. I enjoy hearing their motivations and seeing that they are never so consumed with their apocalyptic troubles that they can’t take a few days to fix the smaller things in life, like helping a friend who is out of his depth in dealing with a teenager. As Cas stated early in the episode, Sam and Dean were “backup” this time. Maybe the show should be able to combine the big and the small together more deftly but in reality, don’t we all need to pause the action of our crazy lives, even for a day or two, to focus on something or someone who asks for our help? I accepted the moment that was being offered to catch my breath, because I know the next three weeks are going to wring me dry.

Once viewed on its own merits, “Angel Heart” lived up to its name. It was a tender character study of Sam, Dean, Castiel, Claire, Amelia and even Ronnie and bad angel guy (Tamiel).    It broadened the Supernatural universe with yet another category of angels, introducing the Grigori, and expanded canon concerning the human soul, telling us that “souls are little slices of heaven”.


I enjoyed that there were no damsels in distress. Amelia saved Claire, tiny little Claire saved the three tough guy hunters, and Sam even saved himself (Robbie tweeted that it was very important to him that Sam save himself). I also very much enjoyed both Sam and Dean’s interactions with Claire. Kathryn Love Newton did an excellent job portraying the conundrum that is a teenage girl, alternating between pushing away the stupid adults who knew absolutely nothing useful, to needing the guidance and tender embrace of parents and caring friends. Her first reactions were “I didn’t ask for your help” and “You can leave now”, yet she listened and absorbed everything that Sam, Dean and Cas said to her.

Her interactions with Sam also enabled us to hear more of Sam’s thoughts about his life and to see once again his outstanding people skills. He knew how to approach and work with Claire in a way that was both respectful and effective, always seeing her point of view:

Look, we’re not leaving until you tell us what the hell really happened, so if you want us gone, talk.

I know you need to be somewhere far away from all of us.

I can also show you how to set up fake credit cards. It will make life on the road a lot easier.

He didn’t tell her that her viewpoint was wrong and he didn’t try to protect her but he also didn’t easily capitulate. He respected what she was feeling and every time showed her how to accomplish what she wanted while still getting her to do what they needed her to do.  Of course, showing her how to break the law isn’t normal but Sam accepted that she was on her own, on the road, just like he had been every time he ran away from John or Dean so taking that as the starting point, he gave her information and skills that were of value to her. He knew she would strongly rebel against the direct approach to get her off the streets and into a stable situation, so Sam sided with her and gave her something she could use, winning her over slowly until, in the end, she agreed to accept help and shelter. Really, really smart. Teenage parenting, or Negotiating Skills, 101 (they’re really the same thing anyway, aren’t they?)

We also heard more of why Sam is still a hunter:
Sam:    Hunting monsters doesn’t exactly pay the bills.
Claire:  Then why do you do it?
Sam:    To help people, make a difference.
Claire:  That’s it?
Sam:    That’s not enough?

“Angel Heart” also showed us a Dean who can have fun playing miniature golf, a mother who had deep regrets about a well-intentioned but catastrophic parenting mistake, and a Castiel who went from an awkward gesture of giving a stuffed animal as a birthday present to getting a hug of acceptance. It was also nice to see Misha have a different acting role and play an emotional moment as Jimmy finally found his peace.

“Angel Heart” was an emotional indulgence from beginning to end but it still delivered messages that were deeply troubling and worth exploring.


Family and the Truth

Amelia: I was dreaming. This whole time I was dreaming of finding Jimmy, of putting my family back together.
Cas: I promised to protect your family and I failed.


Both Amelia and Castiel had deluded themselves with stories of perfect endings. Amelia wanted her perfect family so badly that she abandoned the young daughter that was still with her to pursue an idyllic vision of her life. Amelia lived her happy reunion over and over for two years in her angel-induced dream state. When she was finally awakened to reality, she had only enough time to apologize to Claire and bring closure to her little girl’s pain before Amelia was dispatched forever to her dream.

Castiel also made a promise he couldn’t keep. His angelic powers were taken from him so he couldn’t hear or help Amelia or Claire when they needed him. He has apologized so many times for letting people down, but he got his redemption in the form of a teenager’s hug. Claire lost her entire family just like the Winchester brothers and Castiel lost their families (Cas isn’t exactly welcome at “home” right now), but she is finding a new family in the angel and hunters who have adopted her:

Cas: When this is over, should I leave Claire alone?
Sam: What? No man, she’s family. I mean she’s not exactly family but she’s close enough. You two have history. Simple as that.
Cas: So you don’t think she’s better on her own?
Sam:…Here’s all I know. Going it alone – that’s no way to live. You being there for her, even if she thinks she doesn’t want you to be there for her – that’s good, for both of you.
Cas: Maybe, in the end.
Sam: In the end.
SUP 1020 AngelHeart 001

While Cas was asking about Claire, Sam was clearly musing on his relationship with Dean. This hunt contained several instances of a change in attitude in Dean. He is starting to push Sam away again, which hurts Sam deeply, yet he is going to stick with his brother hoping for a happy ending. It wasn’t that long ago when Dean was a demon and rejected Sam to the point of trying to brutally kill him, yet Sam showed up saying “I’ve come to take you home”. This episode advanced Dean’s journey down that same road, pushing away anyone who will appeal to his better instincts, anyone who will pull him back from the “bad boy” the mark wants him to become…

Mark of Cain

Dean’s actions in this episode were supposed to alarm us. We were asked to believe that the mark is pushing Dean harder than ever and he is getting close to the breaking point. His intimidation of Ronnie in the bar was supposed to be the bellwether of Dean’s need for violence. Castiel told us as much when he told Sam that Dean “snapped” and is “getting worse”. Like many fans, though, I wasn’t alarmed by Dean’s actions.  I was far more concerned with Dean’s attitude.  In the hospital, he let it slip that he needed to punch somebody. No big deal. He was being honest (without naming names, people I know very well have said that after a bad day!). I was concerned, though, when he looked at both Castiel and Sam like they were mother hens rather than two men he trusted with his life and who had seen more action at his side than even the most hardened soldiers. Then Dean shared a rather troubling viewpoint with Castiel, ostensibly about Claire: 

She’s been surviving on her own for quite a while now and partly because she doesn’t have anybody to answer to, nobody holding her back. I’m saying she might be stronger on her own.

Dean is starting to resent rather than welcome his watchdogs. Just last week he melted our hearts when he said that he and Sam were stronger together. I don’t subscribe to the notion that his abrupt reversal about having to “answer to” anyone, being “held back” or “stronger on his own” was contradictory or inconsistent writing. Rather, I think the Mark has passed the mid-point in its battle for control of Dean. His pushback to his closest family felt and sounded more like the mark is gaining control of his thoughts and actions. I said I could think of several reasons why “Angel Heart” was inserted at this point in the season. One major reason I believe was to parallel how Dean is now acting like a headstrong teenager. He was edgy, aggressive and rebellious during the entire case. He was clearly agitated when Cas and Sam said he needed to stay at the hotel rather than do recon at the farm:

“So you want to bench me again? Alright. Fine. I’ll stay and babysit”

Doesn’t that sound like a teenager who thinks their “parents” are “holding them back”? It was even followed by a pout fest. Fueled by the overpowering energy flowing through their veins, headstrong teens (and now Dean) feel they’d be stronger on their own. They resent any authority that holds them back. They believe they are immortal (which he is), and they resent any authority that warns them off adrenalin fueled fights or dangerous situations (again, true of Dean). Everything in Dean’s sighs, looks and body language said “I’m growing impatient with your limits and I can’t wait to dump you losers”. Like Claire, he did what he was told, but he clearly didn’t like it.  Dean lasted about 5 minutes in the hotel room before saying,

“If we stay cooped up in this hotel room all night long I’m going to lose my mind”.

Again, insight into his impatience, edginess and restlessness. His need for constant activity, entertainment, distraction and/or adrenaline is increasing exponentially. The Mark wants to be fed.

I think we, and Sam, have lost the humbled Dean that offered last week to help on a case “if you’d have me”. The changes in Dean were more subtle than him banging Ronnie’s head into a table. The difference wasn’t the action itself, it was how much Dean was enjoying it.


At one point in the final fight with the Grigori, Dean clenched the blade, turned his head down, braced his body and dug in in a way that said, “You don’t know what you’re dealing with and I finally get to use what I got!”

Reversal and Suicide

Now for the dialog that sent everyone straight over the edge:

Dean: Claire, what happened to your dad…I’m sorry, OK. I really am but there’s something you gotta know. Your dad’s sacrifice was not meaningless. He gave up his body, his vessel and because he did that, Cas was able to save the world…the world! Your father’s a hero. He did not die in vain.

I know, I know. Sam saved the friggin world! He wouldn’t have been able to do it without Dean, though, because Dean’s voice and family memories got through to Sam. In addition, Dean wouldn’t have had the “five minutes” he needed to reach Sam without Castiel’s sacrifice, so they all played a part. No arguing that Sam’s strength in overcoming Lucifer was epic and that Sam’s sacrifice of going to hell for all eternity (he thought) was greater than Dean or Castiel’s sacrifices.  Robbie heard the cry that echoed around the world and replied with this detail:

“As scripted, Cas was able to HELP save the world” y’all. Got changed on the day in performance, but still works. #CalmDown #Supernatural.

Whoever changed that one word really blew it. Really. Blew. It. Big Time. …or did they? 

In context, Dean was trying to make Claire proud of her father. Dean wanted her to understand the sacrifice Jimmy made by allowing his body to be inhabited by an angel for the greater good. I get that.  What concerns me more than the selective narrative of the past is what Dean’s words say about the future! Take a deep breath because we have to move past outrage to get to what they wanted us to hear with that line.

He gave up his body, his vessel save the world.

Dean is going to give up his vessel to save the world.

Your father’s a hero.

Dean believes that sacrificing yourself to save others makes you a hero.

He did not die in vain.

Dean is going to die.  

The recent recurring thread of suicide has been very troubling yet with every mention we get a refined vision of where Dean’s journey might be leading. The Mark of Cain is attached to Dean’s body, so turning his vessel over to an unknown person or persons will temporarily end, or overpower, Dean, but it may change the battle with the Mark in some significant way.  Only two beings that we know of right now can possess a vessel – Crowley with or without permission, and Castiel with consent. I revisited the “Swan Song” sacrifices specifically because Dean’s love for Sam gave Sam the time and extra strength he needed to regain control over the supernatural force that was controlling his body. He then sacrificed his body and soul to save the world.  Since so much of this season has been seasons 4 and 5 redux but with the brother’s roles reversed, that would imply that Sam’s love will now buy Dean the time he needs to override the Mark and willingly sacrifice himself to save the world….BUT the last episode brought up the Purge conversation again SO what if Dean doesn’t willingly sacrifice himself? What if Sam decides for Dean (reversing s9) and has either Crowley possess Dean without Dean’s consent, or tricks Dean into having Castiel possess him?? Sam will have done exactly what Dean did both for him and to him when Dean allowed Gadreel to possess Sam.  “In the end” will the end justify the means? Both brothers will have experienced the other’s pain and sacrifices in a reversal of seasons 5 and 9. It seems plausible that the Crowley/Rowena/Book/Witchcraft plot line might provide the apocalyptic danger or maybe just the path to the final option of possessing Dean.  

The universe is trying to tell us something that we both should know by now. We are stronger together than apart.
If we ignore assessing whose sacrifice was the greatest, Castiel, Dean and Sam all saved the world, together. Sam was the brains and strength of will, Dean was the unending love, and Castiel took his lead from his human friends and did whatever he could to help. Two out of three died. It is unclear if they will have the exact same roles, but with Castiel’s story lines being closed and all the ominous messages about his lack of purpose, I have to believe he is also once again going to somehow be sacrificed in the process.  

In this line of work, death isn’t always goodbye.

After Sam’s swan song, Cas rescued Sam’s body and mind, but he couldn’t recover his soul.


It is concerning that this episode’s story was about people slowly losing their souls, a little at a time, as they were siphoned off to feed a supernatural parasite. This is a clear parallel to the mark sucking Dean’s soul dry.  Also troubling was that angel guy said “you know she can’t be helped.”  and that Castiel was not able to heal Amelia’s wounds (just as he wasn’t able to “heal” soulless Sam). That’s an interesting, and troubling, precedent. Is it possible that season 11 will be a reversal of season 6? In one way or another will Sam need to restore Dean’s soul?


I’m seeing signs that:

Dean is going to be sacrificed, and his vessel inhabited, either willingly or not, to save someone else. Sam and Castiel are two strong possibilities, with catastrophic world consequences closely in the running because of the Rowena, Crowley, ancient evil witchcraft, ancient evil family, etc.

Last week Sam again proved that he's willing to die to save Dean, but it’s looking more likely that more than one person in Team Free Will is going to die, sacrificing himself to save Dean and/or the world.

A soul is going to be lost.

We are all going to be gasping for air for the next three weeks.

Claire: Are you going to be OK?
Dean: Me? I don’t know but I will keep fighting. I will keep swinging until I got nothing left.

…and Sam is going to be right there next to you Dean, hoping you come back to him… in the end.

What do you think? Where is this story headed for Dean, Sam and Cas? Our theory thus far, which I don't want to forget or abandon, is that Dean stops himself (which we know can't be through suicide) from killing Sam , or Sam kills himself so that Dean can't kill him, thus breaking Cain's curse. Now we have all this vessel talk. So Dean gives up his vessel so he won't kill Sam? How do you weave the newest information into our older theories? 


# YellowEyedSam 2015-05-01 18:27
I wasn't going to bother reading or even replying to anymore reviews of this episode. But I'm glad I changed my mind as I enjoyed your review :) Twas very thoughtful!

What do you think? Where is this story headed for Dean, Sam and Cas? Our theory thus far, which I don't want to forget or abandon, is that Dean stops himself (which we know can't be through suicide) from killing Sam , or Sam kills himself so that Dean can't kill him, thus breaking Cain's curse. Now we have all this vessel talk. So Dean gives up his vessel so he won't kill Sam? How do you weave the newest information into our older theories?
I have no idea about Cas's story. As for Sam and Dean? Surely (actually I hope) something happens to Sam and S11 will be his season. This season has reminded me of S7 where a whole season is dedicated to one plot. No, actually S7 redeems itself for having the side story of Sam's hallucinations. S10 has moved way too slow with no side plot I can think of that redeems the season.

What I know wont happen because this season has disappointed me a lot is an Evil Sam, or him using his powers again. When I say evil I'm talking the hallucination in Yellow Fever not the soulless dick he was in S6 :P
# nightsky 2015-05-02 12:30
I'm so glad you enjoyed the review and that I gave you more to think about!

Evil Sam? I don't think I would survive that! I can go for DarkSam but I'd freak at an evil Sam!
# cheryl42 2015-05-01 19:15
What do you think about Metatron's grace? What would happen to Dean and the curse if Cas used that grace to inhabit Dean? Could that even be done? Angels have taken human vessels but this would be different. I still think Sam is going to do something biblically stupid. But now my new thought (thanks to Alice's discussion thread) is that Sam may be the one who needs to be stopped not Dean. And this may set up the scenario where Dean is forced to kill Sam before he unleashes something truly apocalyptic. Would that be enough to turn Dean into a demon again?
I liked this episode much better on second watch. I also thought that it was Dean's attitude that was getting worse. And yes the line in question didn't really register with me until I started reading comments on RT's twitter. It was pretty brutal. I took it to mean pretty much what was intended at the moment. Dean said that to Claire (who obviously had no clue what her fathers sacrifice meant to the world) to make her feel better about her dad.
I did like all of Sam's practical "On the Road as a Hunter" advice and tips.
The miniature golf game was really very cute.
Claire was much better written in this episode as opposed to the others. She wasn't over the top angry teen just angry teen.
I liked the ending song with Claire looking up to heaven that was really poignant.

I guess my biggest problem with the episode was the placement. If it had happened before Inside Man I think it would have worked a lot better. And the Castiel story is still leaving me perplexed. He just isn't as involved with the main arc as he needs to be if he is going to be part of the big finale. And Crowley sure has been missing in action hasn't he?
Thanks for your review and threads. It always gives me a lot to think about.
# nightsky 2015-05-02 12:44
You're welcome. Thank you for being such a loyal reader!

What do you think about Metatron's grace? What would happen to Dean and the curse if Cas used that grace to inhabit Dean? Could that even be done?
My personal opinion (based on absolutely nothing) is that they won't use Metatron's bottled grace until S11. I think that, and the resurrection of the demon tablet, were setting up next season.
But now my new thought (thanks to Alice's discussion thread) is that Sam may be the one who needs to be stopped not Dean. And this may set up the scenario where Dean is forced to kill Sam before he unleashes something truly apocalyptic. Would that be enough to turn Dean into a demon again?
Sam doing something horrific would set up same circumstances that Cain faced, i.e. kill his brother rather than allow him to doom his soul and possibly take the world down with him. That theory made a lot of sense immediately after The Executioner's Song and it is consistent with Dean not wanting Sam to die for him (Werther Project) but I can't reconcile it with all the obvious breadcrumbs of working together, suicide and vessels. Sam is going to do something epically bad so Dean is forced to allow his vessel to be occupied? That would work, but it isn't a reversal of Dean's Gadreel decision which was brought up in the Charlie ep. They've given us so many possible outcomes that I am befuddled.
And this may set up the scenario where Dean is forced to kill Sam before he unleashes something truly apocalyptic. Would that be enough to turn Dean into a demon again?
Yes, that would turn Dean into a demon, but I don't believe for a minute that they would have Dean kill Sam. It's too simple.
# ParadiseHeat 2015-05-03 10:30
Well reading the synopsis for the season finale I think its pretty clear that they're headed down the Cain and Abel route. Dean is going to make the decision to kill Sam thus 'saving him' and sending his soul to heaven while Dean damns his soul to hell. Dean gets to be the 'hero' by making the 'sacrifice' and Sam gets to die and go to heaven. To get them to that point though Sam still has to do something 'bad' and that will likely come next week. Episode is the one that confuses me though as it has Sam coming to terms with his decision which I can only assume will be guilt over Charlie getting killed by the Stynes, Dean telling Sam to stop what he's doing and Sam deciding not to thus separating the brothers for the last episodes of the season or Sam deciding not to use the book to save Dean because Dean doesnt want him to go down that road.
# Jen 2015-05-01 21:07
As always Nightsky excellent reveiw you give us thought and insight. I always thought that something would happen to Deans vessel - always thought this. The show has constantly shown vessels to be possesed. and if or when necessary the actuall person is aloud some chat time ?? Lucifer with Sam. Kevin's girlfriend with Crowley. The difference here is no possession, just Dean's soul being lost to evil magic.
I can't see how either Cas or Crowley possessing Dean can help. the mark evil is to strong. I think Dean is going to die - our Dean & reborn as a dark Dean reallllllllllll ly dark. Evil personified. :(:(
Then he will leave - disappear like at the end of S9. Sam will become discouraged and angry more intense than the snippets we saw in the beginning of the season. He may even give up only because of sheer helplessness. This maybe where S11 will come in - Cas will be needed to help Sam & Dean. I think Rowenna, with her bk of the dammned , the boys chasing the bk and Crowley are all gonna be set up stories for next Season. Sam & Cas are going to have early in the season a huge work load trying to find and reach Dean ( not save him) because Dean is burried inside, they need to bring him back. Then all 3 will get back to sorting out Rowenna, Crowley and the bk of the Dammned. :D:D
# nightsky 2015-05-02 12:50
Thank you! I'm happy that my ramblings help us all sort through these riddles!

Set up for Season 11? My guesses:
- Book of the Damned and whatever horrific magic results from Sam showing it to Rowena
- people going after the codex now that it has resurfaced
- the Stynes
- Whatever Metatron wants to do with the Demon Tablet
- Metatron's grace

I have no idea what portion of Sam, Dean and Cas are going to bridge into S11! I am confident, though, that they will all survive one way or another. I am less certain about Crowley's fate for the whole next year.
# SPNForever 2015-05-05 06:41
Nightsky - I enjoyed this thread and read Alice's first. Enjoyed both of them. I will qualify my comments by saying that I am a Pilot to where we are now in Season 10 fan - a very unhappy, disgruntled fan with Season 10 which I think is the worst season of the series. If Rowena and Metatron are going to be in Season 11 that's already two MAJOR strikes against it. All of this that you suggest above seems to give some validity to Carver's 3 year arc being accordioned out over 4 years which sounds DREADFUL. Season 10 has been so SLOW it has been unwatchable at times. Cass' grace was stretched from the end of season 8 until the end of Season 10. Can you imagine more extension of already dreadful plots and hideous characters like Rowena. If this is what Season 11 is going to be I'm already depressed. Metatron as played by Curtis was AMAZING but his time is over - let him go and Rowena was a mistake who should have been written out a long time ago. I think we are going to lose Charlie but keep Metatron and Rowena - what is WRONG with the writers and Carver - ugh, I just want to scream
# ParadiseHeat 2015-05-03 10:31
So basically a total rehashing of season 10?
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-01 22:44
Nightsky, once again you've amazed me by pointing out nuances in the episode that escaped me. That "vessel" remark by Dean may in fact be very significant since I understand that Jensen made a reference to Dean's vessel at a recent con. I'll be pretty disappointed, however, if next season is simply about a bigger, badder version of Demon Dean. I really hope the writers have more imagination than that. Time will tell! But thanks again for a great review.
# nightsky 2015-05-02 12:52
You're welcome!
I may or may not have picked up on the vessel mention if Jensen hadn't used it in LasVegas. Since he did, though, I know it is the key.
# ParadiseHeat 2015-05-03 10:35
I remeber him saying that and thinking well that would be different wouldnt it, there would essentially be no Dean at all until/unless Sam and Cas restore it. Jensen would obviously still play the biggest role on the show but he wouldnt be playing Dean just a demon. Off course I'm not sure how that storyline would be all that different to the soulless Sam storyline?
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-03 10:48
I guess I just don't think it would be all that different from this season. Sure, an actual DEMON Dean would be a change from what we got this year. But it would be a difference only of degree. And the plot for next year would be identical to this year's--MUST SAVE DEAN. And that plot wore out its welcome a long time ago IMO. If they do go the route that you suggest, I feel like it would be purely to satisfy the fans who were upset that we got only 3 episodes of demon Dean.
# Liesl 2015-05-02 00:03
While Cas was asking about Claire, Sam was clearly musing on his relationship with Dean.

I disagree -- I think that Cas was asking about Dean. Sam is Dean's family, but Cas and Dean are "like" family, have a history, etc. Following Dean's chat with Cas, I think Cas took from that that Dean believes he's stronger alone. Sam clearly doesn't believe that!

Good review. I do think Dean could end up with someone else in his vessel, but he still has his tattoo, so I'm not sure how Crowley could accomplish that, because they had to jump hoops to get him into Sam previously so he could tell him to usher Gadreel out. However...did Sam replace his own tattoo? Throwing Rowena into the mix, maybe she could circumvent things, but she doesn't want Crowley to win anything...or does she?
# nightsky 2015-05-02 12:59
I think that Cas was asking about Dean.
Cas was talking about Dean when Cas said "you think I should leave Claire alone; you think she's better on her own"? Do you mean you think Cas was concerned about what Dean said to him about Claire, or do you really think Cas was considering whether Dean should be left alone? It would be interesting to look at Cas' comments from a different perspective.

I have a hard assignment for everyone: Please go back and find the last shot we got of Sam and Dean bare chested so we can check out their tattoos! Go!
# anonymousN 2015-05-02 00:43
While I do not agree with some points in the review an interesting read definitely.Quote:
I know, I know. Sam saved the friggin world! He wouldn’t have been able to do it without Dean, though, because Dean’s voice and family memories got through to Sam. In addition, Dean wouldn’t have had the “five minutes” he needed to reach Sam without Castiel’s sacrifice, so they all played a part. No arguing that Sam’s strength in overcoming Lucifer was epic and that Sam’s sacrifice of going to hell for all eternity (he thought) was greater than Dean or Castiel’s sacrifices.
Nightsky,I do not know what has happened in twitter...but i would like you to know that Dean talking about Cas saving the world is not really the problem.Cas has saved the world.The show telling that would never be a problem to me personally.It is the silence from the show when it comes to Sam's contribution to good and the show telling us about the contributions of others.This is also compounded by the fact that when it comes to mistakes (knowingly done or unknowingly)... Sam's are repeated again and again..but others are not so.This I find unfair but at the same time whatever complaints I have are limited to this site.
The problem I have now is similar to problem I had with man who would be the king? where Cas was given chance to tell his story without interuption or judgement but more importantly he told the story to us not for/to Sam or Dean.Now if I juxtapose to situations where Sam has done questionable things it shows a lack of such care by the show.
I had thought I would not talk more about this matter...But in this site I have seen people making our points for us i.e creating a strawman.
I hope you understand what we mean when we say we had problem with this.
Thank you.
# nightsky 2015-05-02 13:02
Judging by the number of likes your comment received, you voiced the opinions of many, many people! Thank you.
It is the silence from the show when it comes to Sam's contribution to good and the show telling us about the contributions of others.This is also compounded by the fact that when it comes to mistakes (knowingly done or unknowingly)...Sam's are repeated again and again..but others are not so.
I absolutely agree. That poor boy gets beat up a lot emotionally and psychologically .
# njspnfan 2015-05-02 13:37
I too, had commented on Twitter about this line change and, quite honestly Robbie should have known better than to tweet #calmdown because the first thing people will do when asked to calm down is NOT calm down :D:D And while I agree with your interpretation of the reasons behind the line change, this is not the first time this has happened in the Carver era, with everyone but Sam being credited with stopping the apocalypse, and people explicitly blaming Sam for starting it in the first place (Charlie in PacMan fever, Traci in Devil May Care, etc.) So when these changes are made, or these lines spoken, they become part of the narrative of the show; do you think this is intentional on Carver's part, that they may ultimately be going somewhere with this, or just a case of fans reading too much into something?
# Sharon 2015-05-02 13:49
I would buy fans reading too much into something if there was not such a clear pattern of this kind of behaviour towards Sam in the narrative.
# nightsky 2015-05-02 15:59
I cannot imagine any motivation for Carver to malign one of the two main characters of the story. I believe it is unintentional on their part (not noticing, not aware of the impact, etc) and an extremely sensitive point for fans which they hear and see immediately.
# anonymousN 2015-05-04 03:53
I do not think Craver wants to malign Sam..I just think they are indifferent to Sam as a character.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-04 17:09
# Lilah_Kane 2015-05-02 06:50
Nice read again Nightsky. Made me think a lot and actually be very scared what we have in store for us. I have been pretty scared about every member of the TFW the more we are closing in the end. I admit that I have seen a lot of the same things you did that even if the main arc was light still it was present this episode. We will see how much wiser we will be after the finale. I liked the adding of the Grigori and thought about what he was doing to the people more draining the soul out of it's power so the soul would in the end just be gone. That makes sense as Castiel powered himself up once with Bobby's soul. Anyway, Grigori finally seemed really badass and maybe a new baddie that might with the Stynes to be different than normal angels and demons.

Also the scene where Sam was learning Claire the hacking and such I saw it also as Sam buying time that Cas and Dean had time to come. I think Claire was going to split if he hadn't done that so that was a pretty smart tactic.

The little things they hint for us really are the real teasers at the moment. Bring on the last three episodes. :)

- Lilah
# njspnfan 2015-05-02 12:32
Hi Nightsky - nice threads article. I have some rambling but hopefully coherent thoughts on this below.

Last season, Dean could not fight the effects of the MoC and First Blade, and ended up dead as a result of his confrontation with Metatron. Since the MoC wouldn't let go, it turned Dean in to a demon. What if Dean continues to fight the MoC this season; if the MoC doesn't "get its way", what then happens to Dean, or more importantly, his soul? I bring this up because, in an earlier Threads article, you referenced something Jensen said about Dean at a convention; he used the word vessel in the context of Dean and the MoC. I think this is an important distinction. If the MoC doesn't get its way, it will be Dean's soul, his morality, that is getting in its way.

It's already been noted that Dean is satisfying the MoC thru some of his actions and by going on hunts, most recently taking out a nest of six vampires. What happens when that's no longer enough for the MoC; does it then eliminate what is standing in its way, Dean's soul? I had thought it odd that Dean / Demon Dean only killed things that, for lack of a better term, "deserved it". At first I thought this was a cop out; if Demon Dean started killing innocent people, the path to redemption would have been very difficult. Maybe even as a demon, Dean was fighting against this impulse, just doing enough to satisfy the MoC by killing other demons and lowlife Lester? The only exception to Demon Dean's actions were when he attempted to kill Sam, which makes sense when you consider that the Mark of Cain was born out of fratricide and created by Lucifer, someone who had a few, umm..., brother issues. Was the MoC threatened by Sam and what he represented, compelling Demon Dean to lash out and try to kill him?. Dean had mentioned that there was "just enough demon left in him" to kill Sam; what if it wasn't the demon in him, but rather the MoC that was compelling him to do this?

I can't see them going the soulless Dean route because there is nothing for the MoC to corrupt, and they've already done that with Sam. So the question is whether something ends up possessing Dean, or his soul is somehow ejected and his vessel taken over by someone else or some other entity? We have seen this in S9 with Abaddon and her collection of mason jars and souls, the ability for the soul to exist outside the body of the person it is attached to. And without getting too spoilery, someone is rumored to be coming back later this season that is adept at handling souls.

Finally, back to an idea I floated in the last threads article. Cain mentioning that Dean was leading his life in reverse, fully succumbing to the MoC after killing Sam. What happens if Sam sacrifices/kill s himself and is no longer in the picture; the MoC can no longer fulfill its mission so what happens to it then? Does that break the curse?
# nightsky 2015-05-02 13:16
What happens if Sam sacrifices/kills himself and is no longer in the picture; the MoC can no longer fulfill its mission so what happens to it then? Does that break the curse?
If I really analyze this option, I think Sam killing himself would keep Dean from becoming a demon because the curse wouldn't be fulfilled, but I don't think it would break the curse. I think only Dean deciding NOT to kill Sam when the Mark is full out pushing him to do so would break the curse. The bearer has to choose love and trust over murder. I don't think a lack of opportunity (of Sam being dead) would break the curse. So far, Dean's will prevailing over the Mark is the only course of action I see that breaks the curse. All the other options, soul swaps, vessel possessions, etc. sound like sidesteps to keep Dean from becoming a demon without actually breaking the curse.

An additional thought to consider: The Book of the Damned has a way to break the curse (supposedly) yet it only contains horrible, apocalyptic dark magic. So it doesn't make sense that it would say brotherly love is the prescribed cure to the curse. Maybe destroy everyone else except your brother is suggested, but not just spare your brother.

I'm really finding it hard to keep track of all this stuff!!! Anyone else keeping a logic tree or a spreadsheet of possibilities or something??
# AlyCat22 2015-05-02 15:23
Ha! Well still be writing long after the finale has aired and is over!!!
# YellowEyedSam 2015-05-02 19:29
If Sam kills himself or Dean kills him I'll be majorly disappointed. As I said before I couldn't take another death of the brothers seriously, it'd be overkill (pun not intended)
# Russ 2015-05-04 07:10
Cas will sacrifice himself to save the brothers.

RIP Castiel.