Summary:  This episode was written by Robbie Thompson and centers on the return of Claire and Castiel’s mission to redeem himself and help her find her mother, Amelia.  

The episode begins in a dream state where Amelia imagines Jimmy returning to her. We find her in a warehouse being drained of her spirit.

The episode follows Claire at first. She is tracking down her mother and finds a lead, Ronnie Cartwright, in a dive bar (with a nice nod to SE Hinton – Susie’s Bar). Ronnie protests that he doesn’t know about Amelia but then gives it away when he reveals her last name. They scuffle and Claire is knocked unconscious.

Castiel calls Sam and Dean to help him with Claire. Dean hesitates since the two of them were not exactly friendly last time. However, the three go to Claire and find out about her search for her mother. They plan to help but Claire gets out of the hospital. Sam goes to find her while Cas and Dean track down Cartwright. It’s intimated that Dean may be too gungho about the violence of the search and his encounter with Cartwright seems to reveal an over enthusiastic need to harm.

After Cartwright says he did work for a real deal faith healer and recruited Amelia, Cas and Dean go to search for Perry Holloway. Cartwright tries to warn the healer and is killed. Sam and Claire meet up back at the motel and she has been hunting her mother, with a lot of clues left behind, including a diary. Sam offers to help her – and shows her how to hack credit cards. When Cas and Dean return and reveal the Holloway connection to Amelia, Sam stays at the motel to research the healer while Cas, Dean, and Claire go in search.

The episode continues as the search amps up and we start to see that Dean is perhaps getting worse. Cas and Sam go to find more clues as Dean and Claire spend time together, mini golfing and sharing emotional stories.

As the episode reaches its climax, Dean and Cas figure out that it’s a grigori (kind of an angel djinn) who takes energy from people. Sam gets knocked unconscious and tied up and confronts the grigori. They find Amelia and save her, but the grigori tries to go after Claire and Amelia sacrifices herself.

The episode ends on some ominous notes but we do see that Amelia gets to heaven and is reunited with Jimmy Novak. And Claire is sent off to live with Sheriff Mills. 

Questions:

Do you think Claire will return next season? How does she fit into Cas’s arc?

Are we amping up for the return of Demon Dean? It kind of seemed that way in the bar scene.

Now that Cas has redeemed himself, what other missions does and can he have on earth?

So what are your thoughts, reactions, feelings? Leave them here!

Comments  

Ginger
# Ginger 2015-04-29 23:26
Honestly? For the first time in 10 years, I turned an SPN episode off after 25 minutes. I would watch Bloodlines before I would watch this one.

In answer to your questions; yes, Claire will be back next season, as will Charlie, Cole, Donna, and Jodi Mills. It will be the same filler-filled season as this one has been since I think they are trying to build a cast and interest for that illusive spin-off they seem to want. With what they have offered up, I'll just say good luck with that.

I have no idea what Cas will be up to now. Probably helping Sam lie to Dean to push Dean further into whatever it is that he is to do in the finale. I hope the writers might come up with a decent story for Cas next season, because this season has been truly awful.

Sam and Cas saying Dean is getting worse. That's rich, since Sam has banged a guys head on a bar not too many episodes ago and Cas has pounded on Metatron and grabbed his shot leg an episode or so ago.

There was nothing about this episode I liked.
JuliaG
# JuliaG 2015-04-30 00:39
I think that the writers are treating the MOC story like Dean is a ticking time bomb, waiting to explode. He is too. It's the Devil's mark on his arm and it can't end well. if Dean goes off the deep end, it will be primarily because he took the Mark, not because he's being lied to. Let's not blame Sam (and Cas) for Dean's actions, even if lying is a bad thing. (although when Dean lies it's for Sam's own good).
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-04-29 23:44
Do you think Claire will return next season? I think that there is a slight possibility that they may be considering a spinoff of Jody and the children she has taken in. They become the new generation of hunters.

How does she fit into Cas’s arc? She is there to let us know that Cas never really did anything wrong when he kidnapped Jimmy and got him murdered. Cas is a HERO! He stopped the Apocalypse ALL BY HIMSELF? HE SAVED THE WORLD. Fortunately Charlie knows that Dean was the one who REALLY stopped the Apocalypse all by himself. Tracy knows that Sam started the entire thing and everyone knows that Sam did absolutely nothing to stop it. NOTHING AT ALL!

Are we amping up for the return of Demon Dean? It kind of seemed that way in the bar scene. Maybe, but Dean is still not acting much wost than before he was dealing with the Mark (see season 2 when he was dealing with John's death).

Now that Cas has redeemed himself, what other missions does and can he have on earth? I don't think he has redeemed himself. For all the show went on and on and ON about how Sam abandoned Kevin, when Cas promises to protect Claire and then makes not one move to actually see how she is doing in 5+ years, he's gotten off the hook really lightly. Plus he's still not going to look after her. Sam gets Jody to take her in and Cas isn't even going to check in on her, so I'm not impressed.

So what are your thoughts, reactions, feelings? Leave them here! I generally liked Claire more than her last appearance. RT seems to have gotten the message that Claire has real reasons to be mad at Cas. She also wasn't whiny, she was proactive. She was looking for her mother. She was smart, although inexperienced. She saved the day. I hated the white wash of Cas. He kidnapped her father, and Jimmy died because of that kidnapping. In most, if not all states if someone is killed while you are committing a crime, that is first degree murder, punishable by life in prison or death. But Claire gets the lecture on why she should have a relationship with the guy who got her father killed, who abandoned her mother and herself, who didn't bother to let them know that Jimmy was dead, so Amelia didn't go looking for him and who totally failed to protect Amelia once he found her. I also liked Sam opening up to Claire, although I wish the writers would realize that Sam has actually had a life since he left for Stanford. That he actually has experiences other than Mary dying, leaving for college and meeting Mary after she was dead. Sam HAS been a character after season one, but you would never know it from this episode or the episode where he talks to Charlie. Good Grief, Claire is one of the few living humans who knows what it's like to be taken over by an angel. But heaven forbid! Sam and Claire talk about that. Why it might make Cas look like he's not perfect. Then there was Cas "saved the world". Sam had nothing to do with it, it was all Cas the "never did a bad thing in his life kidnapping and killing your father was GOOD". It's a problem that has been around since Carver took over, and this episode just made it even more obvious to me.

I liked the episode until about half way through. I liked Sam giving Claire tips about how to survive tracking down her mother. I loved his compassion. Then the Claire must forgive Cas kicked in, Sam got knocked out AGAIN, Dean tells Cas he has no responsibility to make up for what happened to Claire and Amelia and I lost my affection for the episode. I have really mixed feelings on this one, but mostly negative.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 09:51
Did not Jimmy accept Cas.....
I forget when he was kidnapped.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-04-30 09:58
The first time he did accept Cas. Once Cas said, I'll take your daughter, never let her grow up or grow old, make sure she has no life whatsoever, that's when Jimmy "accepting" was in NO WAY true consent. That's like the fast food place that fired their pregnant manager because she opened the cash register and gave the money to the GUY POINTING A GUN AT HER because she "chose" to let them be robbed.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 10:02
thanks, I truly forgot.
iamsam1013
# iamsam1013 2015-04-30 00:22
I've typed two different comments that both disappeared. Aargh! So this one is short. I like Claire. I liked Sam teaching and mentoring her. Dean did too in his own unique way. I wouldn't mind seeing Claire again, and I'm glad she won't be alone. I'm actually scared for Cas. I'm wondering if his "redemption" may mean sacrificing himself, as Amelia did, for maybe both Dean & Sam??? I don't know why, but that is running through my mind.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 00:26
Chuck help me, I liked this episode. Liked not LOVED.
Liked learning about another ''choir'' of angels.
Gregori's were in the movie DOGMA.
Guess they had to kill off Amelia, so glad CLAIRE IS LEGAL.
Finally Amelia and Jimmy are together in Heaven.
Jody Mills is the patron saint of wayward girls in SPN world.
Can we please have the last 3 episodes be about the overall story arc...
Oh Joy, Charlie is back next week. Must be RT's script again....:o :( :(
Even I am tired of seeing Sam get hit in the head. Yes DEAN
gets beat the hell up but at least he is fighting back.
I want to see some stories concluded or at least MOVE THE BUCK FORWARD.
Is Hannah the new de-facto ''god''.....
How will METATRON'S story end and when for the love of CHUCK
will we see the MOC story Progress...
Dean is not overly aggressive to me, his SPEECH may be, but I have seen worse.
yes that was the neighbor in s6 ep1
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-30 07:16
Hey Nola! One good thing about "Jodys and Donnas Hunter in Training Camp for Wayward Teens/Former Monsters" - Jody already has the cabin covered! Now all they need is a beat up old Chevelle.... If they arent both hitting the "Hunters Helper" hard the next time they see Sam and Dean, Im gonna cry foul! Two smart mouthed know it all teens under one roof? I know I would be... Alex: 'Pffft... you think you had it hard? How many men did you have to lure to their deaths for your vampiric Brady Bunch? Did your mom turn you into a vamp-' Claire: Oh yeah? Well for your information, my dad was possessed by an angel of the Lord and the h-' Jody to Donna: 'Pass the bottle... Were gonna need to make another run.'
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 07:33
To cute, AlyCat :D
Alice
# Alice 2015-04-30 00:35
I have proof, I mean living proof, that I called that Claire would end up at Jody's MONTHS ago. From the TV Fanatic Roundtable, December 16, 2014:

What's Castiel going to do with Claire now that he's rescued her?

Alice: Take her to Sheriff Jody to live with Alex so that Jody can yell at two wayward teenagers over her cell phone. Other than that, I just can’t picture Castiel having a moody teenage girl as a sidekick while he limps around the country randomly doing nothing.

http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/12/supernatural-round-table-castiels-adventures-in-babysitting/

Thank you and you're welcome. Now where are my royalties? :)

Other than that, this episode didn't suck, but the ENTIRE arc involving Claire was a very bad idea. Let's never speak of this again, at least until I skewer the poor execution of this idea in my season end review (and the one coming tomorrow).
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 05:32
Hey now, people dont like braggerts... next thing you know you xill be telling us that you know the location of the Holy Grail, or Waldo. Simmer down now... ;)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-01 16:43
I bet Charlie could find the Holy Grail, or Waldo, or the lost city of Atlantis, or Jimmy Hoffa's body, or......
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-01 16:46
Y'all need to stop and behave. tehehe
:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 17:58
Where do you think she is right now? (Hmmm... now that I snarkily said that, where is she for realz? Did she stay at the Hunter Cabin de Casa?)
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-01 18:45
The MoL bunker.....
right :)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-01 22:13
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!Anywhere but there! Get her out of the bunker!
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 22:48
She is not worthy... ;)
fanotheboyz
# fanotheboyz 2015-04-30 01:13
Ronnie Cartwright was played by the same actor that played Dean's friend and neighbor in the first ep of season Six. He was killed by Djin. Nice that they recycled him, I guess.
I had very low expectations for this episode, so I was mildly surprised that I didn't hate it, but I hope we are DONE with Claire. I don't like that they couldn't use the same actress that played Amelia before. To me, if you are going to do such an episode, at least be sure you can secure those actors first.
I hate fillers, especially close to the end when there is so much to wrap up. They do this every season and it always bothers me. At least Sam and Dean had screen time in this particular filler. I like that they sent Claire to Jody's. Good use of that character and good way to usher her out. Good foresight, Alice!
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-04-30 18:12
I wouldn't mind knowing why they couldn't get the original actress back..
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 18:15
Either busy, she was on NEWSROOM on HBO or
pregnant or sick or out of the country. :)
Russ
# Russ 2015-05-01 01:14
It's a shame really. Newsroom wrapped last year, and she only has 2 credits on IMDB after that, one of which hasn't started shooting yet.

Same goes for the original Claire - she hasn't done anything since 2013. She's young, so outside of quitting acting or health reasons, the only real reason would maybe be school related? The were filming during exams or something?

It's a shame though. Whilst they were only in 1 episode together, they were significant roles. Recasting both characters in what I suppose was a somewhat seminal mini-arc for Cas, kind of took the flavour out of it. The visual disconnect when watching the new Amelia and Claire was a big part of why it didn't work for me.

As for them double-dipping with another actor, has anyone ever done a list for this show, because it's happened quite a lot? I've lost track of recent seasons, but I think by season 6 I had it in double digits. The numbers of actors that have played dual roles on this show has to be pushing 20.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 05:35
Well add "Sid" to the list now...
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-04-30 03:20
Well it was ok. Maybe if this episode had aired 6 or 7 eps back it would have come across better. I feel bad for RT that he was stuck trying to wrap up this unfortunate story line. I think he did the best he could given what he had to work with.
What did Jody ever do to deserve two teenage girls? I thought Sam and Dean liked her.
Can we be done with domesticated Castiel please? He really needs to have some purpose on this show or what is the point. His story should really pertain to everyone else's. Even Rowena's story is closely entwined with the Winchesters and the overall arc. It's almost like Cas is on his own show where he knows these two hunters that can help him out once in awhile.
Dean trying to make Claire feel better about her fathers sacrifice I didn't feel diminished Sam and Dean's role in saving the world. It wasn't about bragging to Claire about how great they were but trying to help Claire feel better about what a great thing her father did for humanity and she should be a little proud of him. Probably one of the better moments.
What was the point of finding Amelia if they were just going to kill her? Claire didn't seem all that broken up about it. Just odd.....
Jimmy and Amelia's reunion in heaven would have been more poignant if they hadn't left a pretty screwed up child behind.
Really? I had hoped someone had gotten a memo about unconscious Sam. I guess not. Oh well, someone had to listen to the monologue from the MOTW it might as well be tied up Sam. (Hmm...maybe I'm on to something here. Maybe no one would be interested in what the MOTW had to say unless Sam was sitting there listening to it too).
Best part of the ep was Willie Nelsen and one of my favorite songs. Loving the music this season.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2015-04-30 04:13
Quote:
Dean trying to make Claire feel better about her fathers sacrifice I didn't feel diminished Sam and Dean's role in saving the world.
I do not think it diminishes DEAN'S part as he has been credited already by two people.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-04-30 12:51
Of course I am talking about this episode. Dean didn't say that he and Cas saved the world. His point was that, in part because of Jimmy's sacrifice the world was saved. Why Jensen wanted the line changed (and I only saw that the line was changed during filming not who changed it) I couldn't really say. I doubt very much if Jensen was trying to dis Jared in any way.
JuliaG
# JuliaG 2015-04-30 12:57
I'm curious Cheryl, do you know how the line was changed? And I agree. Dean was absolute in his statement to make Claire feel better. I don't have a problem with it.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-04-30 14:44
All I saw was a tweet from Robbie Thompson that the line was changed from Cas helped save the world to saved the world during filming. Alycat said that Jensen was the one who changed it but I have not seen that statement from anyone else.
JuliaG
# JuliaG 2015-04-30 16:02
ok, Thanks.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 05:40
AlyCat is incapable of being wrong!!! KNEEL BEFORE ALYCAT!!!!

Actually that is what I read, salt if ya want. :) But whether through direction or the actors choice, the scene remains the same. Wording appropriate to that moment between those two characters.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 05:43
Uhm, infallible. The word I meant to use was infallible. Which I guess means that my very admittance to thi- Oh shi- nevermind.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-01 08:01
Friend, next time just click EDIT twice to repair your blunders. ;)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 08:25
Blunders is not in my vocabulary. Nor is edit as both of these words would denote that I am capable of error. Which I am not. Except for that last blund- damn it! By my decree, what I just wrote was never written. So it was impossible for you to read that. What I just wrote. Except for the first three sentences of course. Which in my magnificence I am being kind enough to point out to you. By the way, I hope you were typing that last response in a, if not prostrate position, that it was at the very minimum a kneeling one... Carry on.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-01 08:40
I aim to please, Your Majesty.
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D: D:D:D:D:D
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2015-04-30 15:31
Quote:
I doubt very much if Jensen was trying to dis Jared in any way.
???
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2015-05-01 06:11
Quote:
Of course I am talking about this episode.
I was taking about the show post season 5.If Sam's sacrifice had been praised earlier then I would not have any problem with what was said about Cas.As of now Sam who did the sacrifice has not been praised but has been blamed exclusively .
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-30 07:23
Thank you for understanding that Dean was trying to make Claire feel better about the loss of her dad and that her father was a hero because of that sacrifice. No laundry list required of who did what regarding saving the world, it wouldnt have meant anything to her in this instance. I dont know why people are trying to blow this out of context. Per what I read, RT wrote the line differently as in Cas helped but the Ackles changed it. Im going with Jensens judgement call.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 09:21
Hear Ye, Hear Ye.
Remember when Cas was a Warrior dutiful angel and not a wimp sad puppy....
He was a SOLDIER once. I asked in another post if Misha would
consider a spin-off. Chuck no....not THIS Cas, please.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 05:44
Remember the angelic BAMF Cas SEX HAIR?!? Oh My Me!
Sakii
# Sakii 2015-04-30 09:52
I never thought of that.

Sam pretends he's unconscious so he can gather information. Lay still long enough and any Villain will start to monologue.
Damn. I knew he was clever; but laying there calmly, over and over, while the monster who wants him dead is crouching over his unprotected body..... I think that's kahunas on the level of.... "I think I'll drag Lucifers ass back into his cage. From the inside."

Remember when Dean pranked Sam with the glue? Sams still mad about that. Now I understand why he pretends to be unconscious while Dean gets pounded on.
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-04-30 22:04
What did Jody ever do to deserve two teenage girls? I thought Sam and Dean liked her. :D I really like her and her relationship with (especially) Sam and Dean. I also think Jodi made a good match for Bobby; wish they would have allowed that to happen.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 05:51
I think Jody will be losing the boys number after this! 'Hello? Hello!?! Sam? *makes static noise* Sam who? I think you got the wrong number! *Click* *Throws cell on ground and empties a clip into it* *Nervously pulls out well worn (by now) flask and shakily takes a long pull...*
Russ
# Russ 2015-04-30 05:42



"Come on, give me something to punch already."

Right there with you, mate. Just under 10 minutes in, and I wanted to punch my TV. A flying side-kick would have been more gratifying, but I'd have done more damage to myself than the TV trying that. :)


This episode was fucking stupid, borderline retarded.


"There's nobody holding her back/I'm saying she might be stronger on her own"

Another Dean-"whoa is me" moment that flies in the face of everything the previous episode accomplished.

Inconsistent-Dean is rampant at this point. From I don't care about Claire/I shouldn't be here/ Why do you care, Cas?, to smashing a guys face on a table because I'm a belligerent dickhead.


So Dean gives a girl a six-shooter, with only 4 rounds in it?

Haha, good God.

This is one of the most discombobulated , worst shot, worst lit, worst directed, worst acted, heavy-handed episodes in Supernatural history.

"Oh Jimmy" LOL

"I dunno, you seem pretty old". Krissy just did a flying side-kick at something.


My sentiments for the creators of this episode: Get fucked.
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-04-30 06:17
Wow Russ, don't hold back. I agree with you except for the last line. I thought I would say so before you were censored.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 07:16
I don't know where all this censorship talk comes from...
We can curse here, ''cuss like a dozen sailors'',
no not a diatribe of vulgarities but WE CAN SPEAK.
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-04-30 16:51
If you are referring to me, I only said it as a joke because of the humorous parental advisory. Curse all you want, I am not the hall monitor, and I am not the one who reported the comment.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 16:55
If I were, You would know it.
My reply was to ALICE....
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 16:58
Russ and Alice.
Go in the archives. He said he posted pictures and
video's so he would NOT be BANNED.
HIS WORDS, not yours.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 16:58
Russ and Alice.
Go in the archives. He said he posted pictures and
video's so he would NOT be BANNED.
HIS WORDS, not yours.
Alice
# Alice 2015-04-30 13:18
Love the warning! This comment was reported, I'm assuming because of the language. So, I think I need to share our policy (I really need to update the policies).

Cursing has always been permitted. The reviewers try to keep it to a minimum, but there's been sometimes where I've been so upset by an episode that I've let a few f-bombs slip. I've certainly let it slip in comments. So, I'm allowing Russ' rant, because this thread is the perfect place for such rants to be. The rules are looser with "Let's Speculate" articles.

If there is enough demand where you don't want to see profanity, I can put in a filter on our commenting program that would change f-bombs display to f*** and do that for other words as well. I'll let majority rule though.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 13:48
who the hell around here is a girl scout or alter boy.....
HAVE WE REALLY COME TO THIS PEOPLE....
oh for the love of CHUCK
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 05:56
FOR #!!::«:__/;5=#( :_#?)/&€ (35)D 8«_ REALZ!!!! Nolas right, were all adults here, I think we can take the exposure!
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-04-30 14:12
Someone swearing occasionally doesn't bother me much personally. However I think telling the cast, writers, creators, anyone who is doing their best (no matter what our personal views are) to bring us this tv show, to get f***** is highly inappropriate. I do understand having righteous anger for what you feel is wrong with the show though, Russ. JMO however, I didn't report this.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-30 21:04
"There's nobody holding her back/I'm saying she might be stronger on her own"

Quote:
Another Dean-"whoa is me" moment that flies in the face of everything the previous episode accomplished.

Inconsistent-Dean is rampant at this point.


I agree completely with this point. My jaw dropped when Dean made that statement.
E
# E 2015-04-30 07:33
I agree with Russ... this was bloody awful. I wrote down a few observations while watching the episode in a vain hope that it would help me pay attention:

So....Claire is only NOW deciding to find her mom after waiting years? And she can't come up with any better reason to find her than she wants to tell her off for ruining her life? It never occurred to her that her mom might be in danger? Might be dead, captured, injured? Might NOT have abandoned her? Is this girl brain dead? Her life has been ruled and run by the Supernatural since she was 11 years old, she even briefly had an angel inside of her and she can't think her way around her teen angst any better than this?

So... Cas is only NOW deciding that its too dangerous for Claire to be on her own now that she' legal and is allowed to be on her own? Why couldn't he have thought that episodes ago when she was a minor and he let her go her own way with only a few dollars in her pocket? This tired soap opera should have been closed out episodes ago.

So....Sam get's excused from the scene again. TWICE ... no THREE TIMES!! It's a record! :(

So....Dean 'snapped' and is 'getting worse' because he beat up a low life? How so? Dean's beat up more people in more ruthless ways than the way he took on this Ronnie guy before he was ever affected by the mark. Hell he's beaten up Sam worse than he beat up Ronnie. If this is how they are indicating that he's being manipulated by the Mark, then they are doing a piss poor job. Oh, and look, it's a return on "poor me" Dean. I thought we'd gotten rid of him last episode. But that would mean that the writers are talking to one another instead of writing in a vacuum.

So... It's a good idea to bring a 16 year old girl to a murder scene? Oh, excuse me, she's 18 now. How convenient.

So....It's Cas who saved the world? When was that exactly? Before or after Sam threw himself into the pit?

So....Sam get's knocked out again because he's the LEAST competent hunter ever. (Hey Shante... heres' another one for your list. What's the count up to now?)

So.....DEAN GIVES CLAIRE A GUN!!! That's smart. Is this supposed to be another indicator of the mark at work? If so then someone needs to comment on it.. like Claire could say.."I've never held a gun before" or "should I have this? Maybe it's not such a good idea..." something to show how jacked up the decision was, but no.. she takes it like being handed a gun is an everyday occurrence and Dean is doing nothing out of the ordinary.

So....Sam is dismissed from the scene THREE times, knocked unconscious AND tied up for the bad guy monologue. It's the trifecta!

So.....Claire saves the day. Of course she does. Because having a maniacal looking Dean gnashing his teeth over another kill would have been soooo unnecessary.

So....AHHHHHH! Are we REALLY being subjected to an Amelia goes to heaven to meet up with Jimmy moment? OMG!!! UGH... please tell me that that didn't just happen....! It's just the worst kind of schlock! It's Touched by An Angel! Since when has this show ever gone in for trite, banal sentimental crap of this sort!!?? (Well, BEFORE Carver that is?).....my eyes!... my eyes!

So.....Claire finally comes around. Ain't she sweet. At least they finally decided to send her to Jody, something they should have done months ago.

So....Not one bit of any of this has anything to do with the Mark, the Blade, Sam's going dark...the Winchesters in general or even Cas really and I can't muster up any energy to care. This was a very clunky awkward, talky borefest that was light on anything even remotely relevant and heavy on cliched sentimentality that this show NEVER used to trade in. This was just the worst. Not MBFWB, Taxi Driver or Paint it Black worst but definitely bottom 10 worst as I knew it would be.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-30 09:12
Methinks that Gregorian sword engraved with the angels name that Claire now possesses is going to be of some importance soon... more anvils, parrallels... they couldve saved the whole reunion in Heaven scene. Kinda figured thats where she would end up with Jimmy, I so didnt need to see it. So dont care about them. Its funny seeing someone who had the chance to go pro, playing Putt Putt Golf. ;)
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 09:34
that's a fun fact I knew not.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 07:30
In the Mini Golf scene all I could picture was Kathryn kicking Jensens butt on the course for real. The other thing that stood out was just how comfortable they both were with the putters in their hands. Stupid I know, but there it is... :)
E
# E 2015-04-30 19:22
You're probably right about Claire...sadly I don't think we've seen the last of her. About the sword, don't you think it was a bad idea to let her keep that sword? I mean, why on earth does she want it? The sword that gutted her mom is a keepsake? That's bizarre. And a weapon like that should be in the bunker... I mean, isn't that what the bunker is for?
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-30 21:10
I think she kept it because apparently everyone who encounters the Winchesters decides that being a hunter is their dream job--Cole, Jody, Charlie, Clair. And any hunter worth his/her salt needs some type of blade with which to stab the bad guys. Apparently guns are passe.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 21:16
Remember when ''angel blades'' were something Special. Now everyone and his mamma has one.
I was going to bring this up earlier in the year now it is moot.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-30 21:31
I know. I've wondered the same thing--how do all these people keep getting their hands on the angel blades? It's like the earth became littered with them after the angels fell, and I guess they forgot to take them with them when they returned to heaven.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 21:37
If I remember correctly, it was a part of them. Made just for them.
They should feel lost with out it.
oh well :)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-30 21:46
I guess that's why Cas always wears a trench coat--he needs sleeves for his blade to drop out of. What if an angel is wearing short sleeves? Does the blade drop out of his pants leg? Food for thought.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 22:40
Reminds me of my 1st fandom ''Highlander'' :)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-30 22:52
I'm not familiar with that show. Do blades drop out of their sleeves or pants legs? Maybe both?:)
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 22:54
please tell me you are JOKING......... ......
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-04-30 22:56
There can be only One.....
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 23:05
PRAIZE CHUCK, :D:D:D
I was feeling SOoooooooooo
OLD.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-04-30 23:38
Oh, Highlander! One of the big questions is where do the women in skimpy clothes hide their swords. Sometimes you ask the same question about the men as well. It's actually a really good show.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-01 11:39
Is it still on the air? I only watch 5 shows and my rule is that I can't add a new one unless I dump one of the 5--so far, they're all hanging in there.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-05-01 12:02
It's no longer on, I don't even know if it's in syndication any more. It is on Hulu Plus. It was one of those made for syndication shows that was on at like 11:00 on Saturdays where I lived. It was proof that one problem with having a character who is an immortal who can't die or age is that the actor can in fact age and at some point the show ends. It was, however, quite enjoyable and if you are ever down to 4 shows and have Hulu, I'd give it a shot.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 14:21
Adrian Paul as the Highlander was HOTTTTTTTTTTTTT TTTTT!!! Mercy.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-01 14:26
I have all 6 seasons on DVD :):):)
All 10 seasons of SG1 on DVD also.
This is my 3rd Fandom. ;)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-01 16:47
Which is your favorite show of the 3?
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-01 13:16
Swords, my precious :)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 06:20
Yeah, you would think people could at least do their part and recycle them... With the angels fallen they would be a dime a dozen and nobody would want them. *'Hey mom!!! Look at this cool metallic pokey stick I found... Can I keep it?!?'* *Oh honey, you can get one of those things anywhere! Lets go to the mall and buy you one of those nice Frozen wands! Put that down now, lets go.... if we hurry we can make it, the mall doesnt close for another 40 (Biblical number = product placement) minutes!'*
E
# E 2015-05-01 06:44
Wel..to be fair Jody was brought in by Bobby more than the boys...:D
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-01 11:42
True, but since Bobby is Winchester adjacent, and since Jody now works with the boys and machetes vamps for fun, the POINT remains the same (did you notice my clever pun? it's not quite eilf caliber, but I'm pleased with it.)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 06:04
Besides - its really really sharp, she might cut herself on it!!! ;) Id like to be the passerby that observes the sword slicing cleanly through the dufflebag material and clattering to the ground as she exits the taxi... 'Oops! Here lemme get that for ya!' Which would then catch the eye of the local law enforcement dude... 'HANDS BEHIND YOUR BACK!!! UP AGAINST THAT WALL!!!' Yeah, some hunter shed make... ;)
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-04-30 22:16
Agreed. For me, this episode was worst than bloodlines. It will be skipped on the dvd. I do not think anything that happened in this episode has meaning other to have Claire be a hunter and she comes back with the blade.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-04-30 08:10
A barely okay episode I guess; pacing was a little slow, and it did wrap up nicely what I thought was an ill conceived story arc with Castiel and the Novak family. Claire wasn't even that annoying so kuddos to Robbie Thompson for making her a little more sympathetic this episode. The placement of this episode was a little odd, though; a bit of a momentum killer.

I did like the addition of the grigori; the show has always made note of the power of the human soul, so it would make sense that certain angels would take advantage of that. Still not sure why he didn't just "angel flick" Sam, Dean, and Claire across the room so he could deal with Castiel.

Not sure what the deal is with all of these teenage girl hunters lately. In the early years, the show made a big deal of how much training Sam and Dean received to become hunters. Now you just give someone a gun, an angel sword and they're good to go. So now all Jody needs is Krissy and she can form her own Women of Letters chapter, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Hunters.

Sam unconscious again; must be a day that ends in a Y. At least he was able to escape himself this time.

In Season 5, they thought it important enough to note only special cases shared heavens (i.e. Sam and Dean). But, given what Jimmy Novak sacrificed, I guess they made an exception for him so I'll give that a pass.

I realize they're trying to build up to the fact that Dean is losing his battle with the MoC but, his behavior in the bar wasn't that out of the ordinary, at least for Dean, for Castiel to call attention to it. If they're so afraid Dean is starting to succumb to the MoC, why in the hell would they leave him ALONE in a motel room with Claire?

And, saving the best for last, Castiel was the one that saved the world from the apocalypse? This caused a bit of a kerfuffle in he twitter-verse last night; from a tweet sent by Robbie Thompson -

Quote:
Robbie Thompson ?@rthompson1138
As scripted, "Cas was able to HELP save the world," y'all. Got changed on the day in performance, but still works. #CalmDown #Supernatural
This got a lot of people worked up, and others understood this as Dean painting Jimmy Novak in as positive a light as possible for the benefit of Claire. This has been the "Sam Winchester" narrative in The Carver era

1) 9.02 - Traci says - "I watched a demon slaughter my parents. And the whole time it talked about how it was celebrating. Some dumb kid let Lucifer out of his cage."
2) 8.20 - Charlie said - Wow. That is some meta madness. [to DEAN] Thanks for saving the world and stuff. [to SAM] Sorry you have zero luck with the ladies
3) 10.20 - And now we have a bit of historical revisionism of 5.22 Swan Song, with Castiel being given credit for saving the world?

This is an interesting narrative that Carver is creating. It comes across as disrespectful of Kripke and what I have always viewed as the most important episode and event in the show's history, Team Free Will stopping the Apocalypse, with Sam making the biggest sacrifice and paying the biggest price. It's a shame that Carver doesn't see it that way but it's his story to tell; it just befuddles me why he seems to go out of his way to do this.
Ginger
# Ginger 2015-04-30 09:59
Reply to njspnfan: What gets me with the mytharc this season is that it completely contradicts Cain's story. Cain lived with the Mark for 200 or 300 years, but Dean; supposedly, is losing control after a few months -- no longer than a year for sure. How does that make Dean look? He couldn't withstand Hell's torture longer than John and now he can't control the Mark after a short time. Some story for a 'hero' of the show. I guess he really isn't the man John, Cas, and Sam think he is.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-04-30 10:15
I do agree that the whole thing has big issues, to be fair, Cain also created the Knights of Hell and rampaged for thousands of years before he met Collette and stopped. So he didn't get the Mark and chill. It's not that awful that Dean hasn't reached that point yet. As to John, I never, ever believed he withstood torture for 100 years. I never believed he was ever tortured the way Dean was. I mean I just have a problem with the idea that Alistair's rack was really close to a Gate of Hell AND that he let John off the rack for some R&R between torture sessions. If John held out for 100 years, he'd still be on the rack when the Gates of Hell opened, not able to fight his way out. I think Alistair just used that as psychological torture for Dean.
Ginger
# Ginger 2015-04-30 18:42
@percysowners: That is true, but this season's mytharc is about whether or not Dean can control the Mark, and that puts the comparison to Cain sometime before the Civil War up until Dean got the Blade from him. That means that Cain maintained control for at least 150 years. Dean was a demon for about six months and got the cure. That means he has maintained control for less than a year and is already, according to Sam and Cas, 'snapping.'
E
# E 2015-04-30 19:25
It would be nice if they would let us in on Dean's decent wouldn't it? He's STILL basically done pretty much not one thing that shows he's slipping, nightmares and odd looks notwithstanding . I mean, could someone else on the show comment on it? And I don't mean a generic statement like "he's getting worse," as there is simply no evidence of that. How about Sam saying "you gave CLAIRE a gun, are you crazy!?" to show how off that whole thing was? We can't get into Dean's unraveling if it's so subtle that we can't see it and goes unnoticed by anyone else on the show.
Ginger
# Ginger 2015-04-30 22:35
@ E: There was so much potential to the MoC story, and none of it has been explored. The only subtle thing I see about Dean's decent is what JA brings to it. There certainly isn't anything SHOW in the writing, just the TELLS from Sam and Cas. The main reason I hated this episode so much is because is was pure teenage fantasy; that no matter how horrible the teen is, someone will see deeper into the troubled innocent girl underneath the revolting exterior and love her anyway, along with a couple of Hallmark moments tugged in (i.e., the Jimmy/Amelia heaven scene and the cab pulling away to Blue Eyes in the Rain as Cas is left further and further behind. That is After School Special stuff, and I certainly expect a much better effort from a TV level network writer. Sadly, I find this is how Thompson writes for the most part.
E
# E 2015-05-01 00:49
Remember when this show deliberately WOULDN'T go down that obvious and overused sentimental road, brining us something grittier or unexpected instead? Well, those days certainly seem to be gone. I just about fell out of my chair at the truly awful Jimmy/Amelia heaven scene. It was gag inducing. "Don't worry folks... see they are SOOOO happy in heaven together, neither of them suffering, in blissful togetherness for all eternity." It was like an episode of Full House, with the uplifting moral message and affecting music. Has everyone already forgotten the depiction of heaven in Inside Man? Why aren't Amelia and Jimmy locked in their own Heaven rooms like Bobby; tricked into thinking they are happy when they are really prisoners? Supernatural's Heaven is more like the Matrix then typical TV trope Heaven, has everyone forgotten that already? We just saw it only 3 episodes ago! Geez. You know what would have been awesome... if that nauseating reunion has been capped off by a scene of Hannah and Co. locking them down in their heaven cells and locking the doors behind them. THAT would have been Supernatural AND consistent with the heaven we saw recently, which was consistent with the heaven established in season 5.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-01 11:50
WHAT?!!!!! You expect consistency and adherence to canon? What show are you watching? Although I'd love it if this became the current version of heaven on SPN since it seems much less lonely. Maybe they could have Hannah explaining to someone that, now that the kinder, gentler angels are running things, and not the dickish angels of the past, they've made heaven much more like the word HEAVEN implies. But since they are in the process of a complete overhaul, not yet completed, that's why poor Bobby can't yet be reunited with his wife.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2015-04-30 08:19
This got a lot of people worked up, and others understood this as Dean painting Jimmy Novak in as positive a light as possible for the benefit of Claire. This has been the "Sam Winchester" narrative in The Carver era

1) 9.02 - Traci says - "I watched a demon slaughter my parents. And the whole time it talked about how it was celebrating. Some dumb kid let Lucifer out of his cage."
2) 8.20 - Charlie said - Wow. That is some meta madness. [to DEAN] Thanks for saving the world and stuff. [to SAM] Sorry you have zero luck with the ladies
3) 10.20 - And now we have a bit of historical revisionism of 5.22 Swan Song, with Castiel being given credit for saving the world?
Perfectly said.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-04-30 10:04
That's my exact problem. At every chance Sam's contribution to saving the world is ignored or entirely dismissed with only his release of Lucifer being mentioned. If this had been the only time it had happened, I would have understood trying to make Claire feel good about her father being dead. But it isn't. It's part of a pattern and it's combined with everyone and their brother beating on Sam for trying to save Dean "the wrong way" (Bobby, Suzie, Cas) I was actually impressed that the Grigori didn't read Sam's mind and scold him on trying to save Dean or Claire telling him that trying to save Dean was as useless as her trying to save her mom.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-04-30 10:22
Percysowner - even saw a couple of tweets from you last night, and you rarely tweet so I could tell you weren't a happy camper.
dellamirandola
# dellamirandola 2015-04-30 08:36
I haven't seen this episode yet but the impression I get from all the people I follow on social media is that two episodes of Supernatural were simulcast last night. One was a really warm episode which gave us something I love - Dean in the in loco parentis role, where we get to see his dorky side, his grumpy old man side, his pop culture one-liners, his patent being 100% done expressions, and his complete inability not to form strong bonds with anyone with whom he has that relationship with. He pretends to hate them but he can't help himself, he is a natural nurturer. In this episode the echoes of Dean and Sam's own childhoods and where they have got to in terms of thinking about them rippled through as a powerful undertone. Should Dean have given Claire a gun? Well, how old was he when he got his first shotgun? Should he protect her the way he tried to protect Sam, Ben, etc? Should he treat her like Krissy, as someone he would prefer not to get involved in hunting but if she does at least let her do it right? Sam got to have a conversation with Claire which first-season Sam would never have been able to have without being angry and bitter. The 'but what about Jimmy Novak?' question got put to bed, those of us who find Cas's interactions with humanity fascinating got a lot to chew on, and there were some really great moments - because I'm a sucker for Dean interacting with kids and goofing off and Team Free Will domesticity I can't wait to see this episode.

However the other episode that was broadcast was a big steaming pile of rubbish where Dean's storyline was full of plotholes big enough to be seen from space and there wasn't enough Sam. Instead characters no-one likes were badly handled. These were the comments I saw first, so I was blown away when other people started to talk about an entirely different episode that they really loved.

I think depending on what people enjoy about this incarnation of Supernatural it's clear there will be completely diverse reactions to this episode. Can there be any common ground?

One thing I do think is that the show has done such a good job of not keeping Sam and Dean as perpetual juveniles but allowing them to grow up. Some shows would have failed dismally at this: in season 1 late-teen Claire would have been Sam's peer; here she is a different generation and the show has allowed that to happen so naturally. I still think killing John off was one of the smartest things the show ever did and it definitely set the trend: there are these gradual changes and suddenly the boys have become completely different people to who they were, yet still recognisably the same - just like real life.
Bevie
# Bevie 2015-04-30 15:55
Thank Chuck for your post dellamirandola. Am so damn tired of all the grousing and complaining and depressing comments on my favourite
show ever that I very rarely comment anymore. This site used to be so much fun and the only one I ever joined as a member. I really hope and pray that none of the cast or crew ever come here. Always the same comments over and over now. Very rarely any complimentary.
Nice to see there are still fans of the show on this site. Thank you dellamirandola!
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 16:51
I only comment on ''let's speculate'' and ''previews/prom os'' because of the HATE here.
I have missed you and rmoates / few others.
However I CAN critique the show and DEAN, and still love it. I am a Dean Woman and feel
unwelcome here most of the time. Hence, my only commenting on 4 or so ''quick'' articles.
If I see a comment on ''latest comments'' that interests me, perhaps I will reply to that WITHOUT
having read the article. The A student in me feels GUILTY when/if I do that though.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 06:28
Hey Nola! 100% Dean gal... still here. Dont feel unwelcome. :)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-30 17:43
Bevie, your comment has me wondering about something. I've only been visiting and commenting here for a few months so I have nothing to compare it to, but has the tenor of the comments changed in the past couple of years? Because there have always been some episodes or story lines that I have disliked, but over the first 8 seasons of the show the good has always far outweighed the bad. I don't write negative posts now because my love of the show has changed--I think the show itself has changed these past two seasons, and for the worse. Have you liked all seasons equally? Do you think the show now is as good as earlier seasons? While I can appreciate that happy viewers don't like the barrage of unhappy posts after some of the episodes, if the comments have trended much more negative the past two years, that indicates that something is different about the show over that time span. I can't speak for others, but I don't begin watching an episode prepared to hate it. I always hope for the best. As do most fans, I believe, as evidenced by the overwhelmingly positive comments about the standout episodes this season. So while I envy the ever-happy fans, I wonder if they agree on any level with the criticisms of the unhappy viewers. Out of curiosity, do you think any of the common criticisms are valid? I'm truly curious about this, if you're interested in responding.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 17:56
I thought you were an old poster with a new name.
People do that here. :)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-30 18:05
Nope, new poster. Why do people switch names?
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 18:12
Not sure, writing styles give them away EVERY TIME. jmo
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-04-30 18:53
I think in some cases those that want to discuss the show (maybe not necessarily wildly happy fans) find it difficult to find a place here for that kind of discussion. There are the discussion threads but I am not sure how that is working. Most of the comments for the articles do tend to devolve into the same complaints. It does shut down the lively and fun discussions that used to happen here. I am not sure if it is only the quality of the show because Bevie certainly wanted to come here and discuss the episode. This is the speculate thread so critical comments are going to be the majority. But even in the articles that are very positive the comments tend to trend to the negative so much so that those that want to discuss the positive nature of the review are being discouraged to contribute to the conversation. I don't mean that everyone needs to be positive about the show or can only post comments that I want to read. I just think sometimes the negativity gets so overwhelming, specially in the glowing positive reviews that many don't feel as welcome to contribute. I just had a very lively discussion about the MOC and what it meant with a few others and honestly that is the most fun I have had on this site in a long time. I know so many here are very disappointed with the show and I have had some dark moments as well. And I certainly don't think free expression should be censored in any way. I just get Bevie's frustration.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-04-30 19:14
Yes, thank you Cheryl. I have been extremely frustrated lately. It is so hard to express any positive's about the show or the characters without being put into a defensive position by all the people who are unhappy. I respect and encourage all opinions. Just please let us ,once in awhile, make a post that is positive without telling us all the reasons we shouldn't be enjoying the show or like a character. Sorry Samandean not directed to you at all. I have enjoyed how you (and a few others) are willing to engage and seem genuinely interested in the opinions of others even if you don't agree. Bevie can speak for herself, but I was looking back in the archives and I know why she rarely posts here anymore.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-30 20:55
I try not to challenge posters on what they enjoy about an episode because it seems pointless, as well as rude. Nobody can talk me out of the episodes that I like (not even It's Time for a Wedding!), so I assume the converse is true. I do try to engage with people (in a respectful way I hope) about their different interpretation of events and characters, because I enjoy that type of discussion--lik e Cheryl's whole MOC theory. I found that entire discussion to be entertaining and informative. Other commenters often have insights that never occurred to me and that I end up agreeing with. I feel bad that you sometimes feel on the defensive about your opinions. I guess I hadn't noticed that aspect of the comments as being that prevalent. It usually seems like the unhappy fans (of whom I am often one) sort of settle into our own little gripe sessions and commiserate with each other, rather than challenging the happy, optimistic viewers. But I shall try to be more aware of how I respond to favorable comments.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-04-30 21:21
I think it's just that we are the minority here now. It used to be more balanced. I myself agree that there are some valid concerns that people bring up. It is just so hard to have a nice discussion here lately without being drowned out by the unhappy voices. I have heard many of these same complaints for years, hundreds maybe thousands of times. Not saying they aren't valid just it would be nice to talk about something else once in awhile. I am just speaking for myself when I say I have been frustrated lately. Some of my posts get twisted or used as a springboard for someone to go on a rant. I recently made a nice (I thought) comment on FAE's thread agreeing with her, thanking her and saying I feared for Sam, and got a 200 word post in reply about how abused Sam has been and is being set up for a fall. It gets old. It makes people leery of saying anything. You respect and treat people fairly samandean, don't worry.:)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 06:56
Yes. The abused Sam, the Sam who is never forgiven, the Sam that has no autonomy, the constant dredging up of the past, the Dean must apologize, Dean is such a horrible person to Sam, not to mention the abused Sam who is being set up for a fall and all the blame... it does tend to get a bit much (especially for a Dean girl that still loves Sam too) and at times gets pretty ranty and hijacky of threads. I understand people need to vent tho and there are many here that agree with these points. When it gets like that I just read and go on to the next post. Its unfortunate that it at times stifles or runs off other posters but it is more of a Sam centric site and you are better off knowing that if you plan on commenting here. Tempers flare, people are passionate and there are a lot of frustrated fans out there right now. Id rather discuss the show, bad or good, than it not being around to discuss at all. So c'mon Supernatural - keep bringing it and we will keep discussing it. No other show like it. !This wasnt meant as an insult or dig at anyone so please dont take it that way!
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-01 07:40
Brava, AlyCat :)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 08:34
Thanks!
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2015-04-30 08:57
Quote:
Sam got to have a conversation with Claire which first-season Sam would never have been able to have without being angry and bitter.
It is Dean who would be angry or bitter in season 1 not Sam.It was illustrated in the show.
in pilot ( source:supernatural wiki)
Quote:
SAM
To Dad? And his crusade? If it weren't for pictures I wouldn't even know what Mom looks like. And what difference would it make? Even if we do find the thing that killed her, Mom's gone. And she isn't coming back.

DEAN grabs SAM by the collar and shoves him up against the railing of the bridge. A long pause.

DEAN
Don't talk about her like that.
Ginger
# Ginger 2015-04-30 09:13
I come to praise Russ. I wasn't going to comment because I wasn't going to rain on everyone's parade, but since Russ brought it up...what a complete, disgusting Thompson Daddy!Dean fanfic episode.

Dean 'snapped'???? Didn't Cas lift a man off his feet by his neck just this season? Didn't Sam bang a guy's head on a table in About a Boy? Hasn't Cas asked Dean to torture for him in the past because he is aware of Dean's interrogation methods? Sam and Cas were treating Dean like Old Yeller, not for anything to do with the mytharc, but because he needed to babysit Claire so they could have their bonding moment and Claire could be integrated into the Winchesters' lives..and Dean willingly complied. But who cares about the Winchesters and a mytharc.

Two top-shelf hunters and an angel couldn't handle one angel...oh, no...newbie teen hunter makes the kill and saves the **cough** three 'heroes' (I use that word loosely). Shouldn't both Sam and Dean have broken their hands while they were punching an angel? Wasn't Cas made a strong angel in Part 1 of this show and now he gets thrown around like a rag doll? Oh, yeah, that was past canon. I forget that canon is made up on the fly and depends solely on what the writer needs the plot to do.

Now we have two recurring female characters to help the Winchesters...C harlie and Claire. Both have been fully integrated into the Winchesters lives so they can fill filler space next season. Personally, I would take either of the Rubys and Bela over these two, because the characters fit into the SPNverse better, all three were better actors, and their stories fit Supernatural better than a cutesy hacker insta-hunter and a belligerent teenager instal-hunter. I get it, Show. Neither can be a love interest for the brothers.

This show is not Supernatural anymore. All that is left of it is the two original leads who have been demoted to Special Guest Star status.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 06:58
I come to praise Russ, not to bury him... Sorry, couldnt resist! ;)
Russ
# Russ 2015-05-01 09:17
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-01 09:34
daggum it, I don't see it again. oh well.
russ, hit me on twitter nolanola9 :D
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-05-01 10:11
NOLA are you reading the comments in you email inbox? That's how I follow comments on threads. I've discovered things like gifs and smileys don't show up in mine. I get these lovely blank messages and when I go to the actual thread, there are gifs, or smileys or whatever graphic the person used.
Russ
# Russ 2015-05-01 10:37
I just totally hit you on Twitter. You have one tweet, which is one more than me. :P
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-05-01 11:55
MY PEOPLE! I tweet a little more than you but basically I have Twitter and Facebook solely so I can sign into sites that let you sign in with Twitter or Facebook. As I'm sure my posts demonstrate, I do not think in 140 characters or less.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 14:23
Awesome! ;)
Daisymae
# Daisymae 2015-04-30 09:51
I liked Claire much better this episode since she's no longer a brat. I thought the episode was okay and don't agree with the haters. I think the reason some fans have a problem is because it's the end of the season and they want the show to only center on the brothers. Also I'm surprised by the hate and violent reaction and find it awful. I know it's not you Bookdal, but you fans have to cool it, really! You sound nuts. I love, love this show and it may be my favorite TV show ever (and I've seen a lot), but it's not our lives and this kind of reaction is ridiculous. Jared and Jensen are lovely people and this is just disrespectful. One can dislike this episode without being so extreme in your opinion.
Alice
# Alice 2015-04-30 13:25
True, but passionate fans do get extreme at times. This has always been true for Supernatural fans and it's been happening on this site for YEARS. While this episode didn't set me off, there have been plenty of others that have (I'm talking to you "Paint It Black"). In the Let's Speculate threads, we allow people to freely speak their minds. The main rule is to respect others and their opinions. In my opinion, stating distaste isn't lack of respect to Jared and Jensen. If anything, it's more geared toward Robbie Thompson. No one is criticizing the acting here. But as moderator I'll allow your comment to stand, because it is your honest opinion too.
JuliaG
# JuliaG 2015-04-30 15:52
Hey Daisymae, thanks for your opinion, but please don't attack other posters. I believe it's against the rules and some other posts were deleted for less. (still missing Tim the Enchanter, sniff)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-01 14:39
Well, you kind of raise the question of who decides whether an opinion is extreme and whether the person who voices it sounds "nuts?" Can a favorable opinion also be extreme? If a viewer writes a happy, over-the-top, gushing, favorable review of a run of the mill episode, might others find that annoying and tell them to "get over it"? For example, if most of the posters had given glowing reviews of "Paint it Black", which I thought was atrocious, I would have been baffled and probably would have ceased reading those reviews after a point. I probably would NOT have told them to "get over it." Also, you are not the only one who loves, loves the show. It is BECAUSE I love the show that I find the big drop in quality lately to be so distressing. Sure it's just a TV show, but it's a show in which I have an enormous emotional investment, and I hate to see it decline so much in quality. But I'm not ready to give up on it yet. So you can continue to love everything TPTB throws out there, and I'll continue to complain when they fall woefully short of the high quality that epitomized the show for so many seasons.
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2015-04-30 10:41
I actually thought the episode was pretty good. It may be because I was expecting much worse so I was pleasantly surprised. They seemed to have finally figured out that Sam has something to contribute to guest star conversations and he was actually part of ALL of the action. His being knocked out was actually not too annoying to me because it happened because Dean called him and he lost focus on his mission. AND they showed that he was able to get himself out of it without having to be rescued. Also, they all fought the angel and lost, so at least it wasn't just Sam being knocked into a wall and lying there. He and Dean attempted to work as a team to fight and I think they would have eventually have won even if Claire hadn't stepped in. I didn't find it bad that she did because it made sense that the angel was distracted by the boys and Cas, and she saw an opportunity to kill the angel who killed her mother.

As for Dean getting worse, I do think they've dragged this story on for so long that it barely seems like he's changed. And his comments to Claire about going it alone are ominous, not to mention his reaction to Sam and Castiel leaving him behind to babysit, so I'm guessing he's going to try and bail here soon.

I do wish the conversation between Sam and Claire had included Sam commenting about how lonely and hard it was to leave his family and be on his own at 18. It would have fit right in, but they've included Sam POV in the last three episodes so I'm not going to complain. I'm hoping that they finally figured out how ridiculous it's been to leave him on the sidelines for almost a whole season until his part of the story kicked in. Maybe it's because I tend to be a Sam girl, but now that he's actually actively involved and having real dialogue and POV, the show has improved tremendously for me, however I don't think it's just that. I think it's because when they manage to have BOTH brothers engaged AT THE SAME TIME, the whole show improves.

Has anyone else noticed that they are addressing a lot of fan questions this season? Maybe because it was the 200th episode or that it's season 10, but they brought up the amulet, the Jimmy question, and I know there have been others, I just can't think of them right now.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-04-30 10:48
Quote:
but now that he's actually actively involved and having real dialogue and POV, the show has improved tremendously for me, however I don't think it's just that. I think it's because when they manage to have BOTH brothers engaged AT THE SAME TIME, the whole show improves.
Amen, Padaleski.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 12:13
Long lost to the cage half brother ADAM.
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2015-04-30 14:05
Right, another one.:)
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-04-30 18:19
Who?

..... just kidding ;)
Glorie
# Glorie 2015-04-30 11:09
I thought it was a great episode. I was never bored, and chuckled quite a bit.

I don't think Dean's comment about Cas saving the world was wrong--each of the three had a significant part in the final moments of season 5. Dean is weird and not Dean this season, because he's not supposed to be. I like how the characters are finally growing up. Dean does not need to be lecherously looking at college girls anymore. I like that Claire has gone to Jody, I've always wanted this show to raise up the next generation of hunters. I liked the interaction with Claire with all the guys. I could stand to see more of her. I didn't like her last appearances, however.

My confusion comes from Castiel's impotence. Why didn't he heal Amelia? Where is badass Cas? Someone mess up his hair, FFS. What's the use of his returned grace?
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-04-30 14:23
Glorie, I think Amelia was already a goner. The Grigori said she couldn't be healed. She had the bodily wounds but the damage and wounds were to her inner level. Her soul. And also the sword he was using might have been the cause of it. As you remember, Castiel could heal Charlie easily. There was a reason he couldn't do that with Amelia.

Quote:
Grigori: "You know there is no fixing her right?"
to Claire

That is at least my take.

- Lilah aka "Wanting to know more about Grigoris and the sword" Finally an angel stuff that had spunk again. ;)
Russ
# Russ 2015-05-01 01:40
I don't think it's the impotence of Cas' healing powers.

There has been a few things he wasn't powerful enough to help with over the years - even after coming back more powerful in S6 - like the MoC; filleted-soul Sam; trials Sam. From season 8, regarding Sam and the trials, Cas said "You're damaged in ways even I can't heal." So there's definitely supernatural out there beyond Cas' healing potency.

Outside of God, maybe it's something only an Archangel could help with.
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2015-04-30 12:01
I liked the ep, but as Cheryl noted, it was badly placed in the lineup. This most definitely should've been an episode shown before inside man.

I felt there was a bit of tie in to the myth arc of the moc...at least the way I see things. Regarding Dean's comment about Cas saving the world....in a matter of speaking, for Dean this is true. He saved Dean's world. Sam is Dean's world and if it weren't for Cas, Sam would still be suffering at the hands of Lucifer if Cas didn't get him out of hell. Granted, he didn't get all of Sam, but getting Sam out led to Dean getting all of Sam. Look I know Cas broke Sam's wall and if he'd fessed up sooner then Dean would've gotten Sam's soul out a hell of a lot quicker....ther e are many flaws and mistakes on Cas' part here....and there's been a lot of anger from Dean for Cas for what he did to his brother....but in the end...Sam is topside and free from Lucifer...Dean has Sam in his life, in his world....so imho, Cas did save the world...he saved Dean's world...because he gave him back his brother...now I may be a bit of a romantic...but that's exactly how I believe Dean feels...:) I feel that this does tie into the myth arc, because it's going to be Sam who saves Dean as we know him....only Sam can reach Dean like no other...only Sam's voice has been able to reach dean so far and we've had a few examples of that this season...as we have had over these last ten years....So Sam is Dean's only chance to find a way to beat the moc and save him from becoming the monster he feared himself to be.....and like I said, it was cas getting sam out of the pit in the first place....sam is here to save dean now....and from what we've learned that dean will become....sam saving dean from that is in essence saving the world...at least saving his world. ;)

I also found dean's behavior quite disturbing at the end.. which leads me to believe that sam is truly running out of time....I mean once upon a time dean would've wanted that girl to live a normal and safe life...now he's totally aware that she has an angel sword, which can lead to no good and he gives her a book that basically is a how to manual of killing angels among other things....he's knowingly armed her with a dangerous weapon and a book that can lead her to a very short lifespan....and imho dean, not under the influence of the mark, would've taken that sword from her and demand she live a long and safe normal life....:o I found dean's behavior at the end...unsettlin g and a little bit scary. ....then again...that's just me. ;)
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-04-30 15:55
Well all I can really say about this episode was that it was ok. It had some nice moments. Even though the heaven scene was sweet it just didn't belong in THIS show. Those kind of sappy scenes belong on the Hallmark channel. Not knocking Hallmark channel, I am sometimes in the mood for sappy family entertainment. Can you imagine a scene like that earlier in the series? I did like Claire better in this episode. Whiney angsty teens are just not interesting. I do think when Claire said she was going to tell her Mom off it was just her protecting herself from any rejection. I HATED Dean giving Claire a gun, WTF? I know it is supposed to be the new "we're not sure how much is real Dean or MoC Dean" but come on! No one else seemed to be too concerned about her toting a gun. Then lets compound it by letting her steal away with a powerful angel sword. From a strategic standpoint alone that was stupid. I did like the new type of angel it was creepy in a djinn sort of way. I also agree that Dean wasn't giving Cas credit for saving the world just trying to help Claire feel like her dad's death wasn't entirely for nothing. I thought the non-excellence of this episode was highlighted even more by it's placement in the last few episodes of the season. Anyway I didn't hate it, just resent it for being the 20th. It should have been earlier in the rotation. I would give it no better than a C.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 17:04
Now now friend, during the FALALALALA holidays,
I have a tv permanently on HALLMARK
MOVIE CHANNEL. :):):):):):):): ):)
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-04-30 17:16
I do love to have my occasional Hallmark channel days! The "Loves Comes Softly" saga's I enjoy very much, for instance. I look to SPN for a little darker stuff.:);):p
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-04-30 16:05
So, after the Amelia/Jimmy reunion, can we assume that souls are no longer stuck in The Veil? Does this mean Kevin can move on? Or is he going to stick around so he can guest star again? Couldn't Hannah have taken 10 seconds to say "at least we reopened The Veil, so souls are no longer suffering.". I mean that means that Tessa could have waited a couple of weeks and NOT committed suicide. Inquiring Minds want to know.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 16:41
EXCELLENT POINT....
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-30 21:41
Yeah, and now I'm wondering what happened when heaven reopened for business--was there a stampede of ghosts trying to be first in line? was it like the surly Bobbys? Or was it first come first served, and they had to line up in the order in which they died? Or maybe they had to sort themselves into alphabetical order since that's how their rooms are arranged in heaven. How did they process that many souls at once at the intake desk? They could have had a whole episode revolving around this issue. Hmmm, what would be a good title for an episode like that?
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-04-30 21:46
Bureaucracy
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-30 22:28
Good title- nice and pithy! Now we just need a good song for the episode...Dolly Parton's "9 to 5?" nah, back to the drawing board.
E
# E 2015-05-01 00:56
R.E.M's IT's the End of the World as We Know It.... the incessant repetition of the verse would work well as all those souls had to stand in that endless line, going nowhere.
E
# E 2015-05-01 00:55
Heh... I just made a comment on this above to Ginger about how the show seems to have already forgotten their stance on heaven. How come Jimmy and Amelia seem to get a real heaven? How come they aren't on lock down in their own cells like Bobby and everyone else? This show seems to have a pretty short memory. That godawful, sentimental gagfest of a reunion between Jimmy and Amelia ONLY would have worked if they'd been shown to be in their own cells with angels locking them down after the reunion. That would have been Supernatural; instead we got Touched by and Angel and Full House.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-01 11:54
I just responded to your comment above, then I saw this.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-04-30 16:42
Good point.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-30 17:13
I can't believe I'm saying this but I didn't hate this episode. I kind of tolerated it, and there were a few spots that I actually enjoyed. My biggest gripe, as with many other posters, was its placement--this should have been aired quite a few episodes back (maybe in lieu of Paint it Black, one of the all-time worst episodes). The thing I liked best about it was some more Sam POV. Every episode lately I'm shocked that Inside Man wasn't just a fluke. Maybe Carver sent around a memo telling the writers to make sure they included some good dialogue for the tall fella with the pretty hair. So right there I'd place this episode above quite a few of the mid-season episodes.

Also, I was pleasantly surprised that Clair had toned down the teen angst and was kinda OK. They even let her bond a bit with Sam, although the Claire/Dean bonding was clearly RT's priority. Dean even got a much more meaningful last scene with her than Cas did, which seemed really odd. Mind you, I'm not thrilled that she's going to Jody's because they're laying the groundwork for her return (and I didn't like her enough to ever want to see her again). More importantly, if this does turn into a "Jody and the badass teen hunters," as some are speculating, that is an episode I have ZERO interest in watching.

Finally, I enjoyed the mini golf scene. It just seemed so whimsical and out of place on SPN that I got a kick out of it. It was pretty humorous.

So that's what I liked about the episode. The list of what I disliked is longer. The whole story made no sense. Amelia ditched Claire so she could wander about aimlessly trying to find Cas? She thought a faith healer could lead her to him? Ever try just praying, Amelia? After all, I remember Jimmy telling her he had prayed for the angel possession. I didn't mind the Grigori, but it also made zero sense that he didn't just kill Sam. He surely knew he was one of the hunters, Sam did not fit the profile of the women that the Grigori victimized, so there was no reason to not kill him, and the Grigori was pretty much a stab now, ask questions later kind of guy. I'll give RT points for letting resourceful Sam escape but nothing else about the scene between Sam and the angel made sense.

There were 2 (or 3) of the all too common Sam leaves while Dean gets to bond with the guest star scenes, but at least Sam got SOME personal, meaningful dialogue. What perplexes me is that now that Sam is finally opening up and sharing some thoughts and feelings, he's confiding not in Dean or Cas, but in Claire (whom he barely knows) and Charlie (with whom he'd mostly had an impersonal relationship). But again, I'll take Sam POV wherever and whenever I can get it.

The whole "Dean is getting worse" talk was, once again, nonsense. What he did to the guy in the bar was par for the course with TFW lately. Didn't Sam do exactly the same thing in About A Boy? The behavior that was alarming, as others have pointed out, was arming Clair, taking her to the fight, and letting her take the book and sword with her at the end. And that ties into one of the things that pissed me off most about the episode. When Dean was telling Cas that Claire was stronger on her own, IMO he seemed to be referring to himself. Especially because in the Dark Charlie episode, RT had Charlie telling Dean that "albatross" Sam was holding him back. But didn't we just have an episode LAST WEEK in which Dean proclaimed that the universe was telling the brothers that they're stronger together? All I could think was WTF? Does Dean think they're stronger together, or is he preparing to take off and "be stronger" alone? Or is RT completely unaware of what is said in other writers' episodes? Just more contradictions and inconsistencies in a season that has had far too many of them.

I also was a little disturbed by Sam indoctrinating Claire into all of the illegal/immoral things the brothers have been doing for years. Sam used to display at least a few moral qualms about it, and he never seemed the type to coach a just-turned 18 year old into a law-breaking Winchester clone. How about telling her to clean up her act, get her GED, maybe go to college? While I enjoyed the bits of Sam POV we got, the rest of that conversation seemed very OOC for Sam.

The whole "Cas saved the world" thing seemed weird to me (and completely inaccurate) but like others, I chalked it up to Dean puffing up Jimmy as a consolation to Claire, who has just lost her SECOND parent to the angel brigade. I still cling to Bobby's statement to Sam in Episode 9x1 that Sam had saved the world. Sure, that Bobby was just in Sam's head, but as far as I'm concerned it became canon at that point!:) So I didn't exactly LIKE this episode, but I also didn't hate it. Had it aired at about episode 9 or 10, it would have looked like a masterpiece compared to the "Sam who?" garbage that constituted many of the mid-season episodes. IMO of course!
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-04-30 17:36
I just watched the episode again and I will have to say I liked it a lot better this time around. You are right if this had aired around 9 or 10 it would have been a perfect episode to wrap up Claire's story. The placement really hurt it I think. But I still say my favorite part was the song at the end.;)
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-04-30 18:20
Fully agree. This should of happened earlier in the season, not a few episode before the finale.
E
# E 2015-05-01 00:58
Quote:
I also was a little disturbed by Sam indoctrinating Claire into all of the illegal/immoral things the brothers have been doing for years.
More disturbed than Dean giving her a loaded gun?!?
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-01 12:01
Given that Dean is becoming "worse" what Sam did seemed more OOC than what Dean did. In my mind, Dean's actions towards Claire constituted the only evidence at all in the episode that Dean is worse-and it's pretty flimsy evidence. Remember the Sam who used to have moral qualms about a lot of what the Winchesters felt compelled to do? That Sam is rarely seen anymore, but the indoctrination of Clair seemed particularly unlike Sam.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-04-30 18:17
Not a bad episode. The part where Jimmy was reunited with his wife had me tearing up ;^;

But I'm slightly annoyed because of how good the last episode was, with the pacing of the main story to a filler episode! Episode 20 and we get this? *grumbles* At least we're on the final stretch now... right?
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-04-30 21:56
I think Robbie Thompson was assigned the task of morphing whiny immature Claire into a Hunter Warrior Princess so she can be part of the spinoff of Jodi and what njspnfan called the Teenage Mutant Ninja Hunters. Do I think Claire will be back next season? Yes, but I hoping and wishing it is on the spinoff. The whole episode had a "off" spinoff (Bloodline) vibe. It was not an SPN episode. Much of the plot and action appeared confusing or ridiculous because it was contrived to fit the final outcome of Claire becoming a hunter. The seed was planted that Claire was like Sam and Dean... As Cas pointed out she was a troubled teenager just like them. (I would disagree). She was searching for her parent with the use of a diary (journal). The mother was found, needed help, and was killed off why?- so she could sacrifice herself to save her daughter. (sound familiar). Sam and Dean took a back seat to the action so they could instantly become her mentors. Did it make any sense that Sam and Dean suddenly started bonding with and talking about themselves? Sam taught her to hack into records and introduced her to credit card theft. Dean took Claire to a crime scene on the flimsy excuse that it was take your daughter to work day which insanely the cop at the scene bought. Dean used Claire as backup and gave her a gun!!!??? Because he has poor judgment caused by the MOC? I don’t think so, no one else was bothered by the fact. Wonder why the two best hunters and a newly re-graced angel could not take down one angel? Claire needed her first kill. Now Claire can shoot a angel/ man in the chest and put a sword through his back all without a lesson or being scared. Oddly, she did not have the outpouring of emotion/ crying for killing or the death of her mother as she did when the bad guys had her or Randy her pseudo- dad was killed. She got to leave with an angel weapon... the blade that sliced up her mother for two years! REALLY! Why didn’t Castiel take it? I bet Krissy will want to see THAT! She also made amends with Castiel and kept his stuffed animal so she can call on Cas and friends to help her out on her next hunter caper. And where is Mom and Dad.? In hallmark heaven shining down on their brave daughter, OH JIMMY! She is so brave and smart. I just wish they added a dog to the scene.

Dean was not getting worse by slamming a guys head on a table; they just had to work in a mention about the MOC. Speaking of which: What was really upsetting to me is that we had all that soul searching, facing your inner self and Dean realizing that the universe was telling them that they are better together and now without any reason or change in circumstances Dean thinks it is better to go it alone. This may not seem like much, but for me it blows the whole promise from Carver of redemption and growth for our brothers. Dean is going to want to go it alone, Sam is going to push to the ends of the earth to help, Dean will make some crazy unilateral move and bam back to the same...
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-04-30 22:17
In other words S1 meet S10. Our dysfunctional brothers will never change I'm afraid. But the episode had a weird flow to it. I could be wrong but I took Dean's statement about going it alone was the Mark wanting Dean to distance himself from Sam, presumably the only being capable of talking Dean down from the influence of the Mark and helping Dean cope with the affects. I think it is Sam who is going to be the problem here not Dean.
If this episode had been placed earlier in the season the dialogue would have made much more sense. Did this ep get filmed out of order?
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-05-01 00:17
I do think the Mark is influencing Dean here. I think it is working to convince him not only that he is better off alone, but that Sam is a burden and that Dean will be better off if Sam can't enter his life again and the only way to insure that is for Sam to be dead and for Dean to not bring him back. So, yes, I think the Mark is working to have Dean kill Sam. This may be part of the curse, it may also be because the Mark saw Sam do a partial cure for Dean and it doesn't want Sam to find a full cure.

That said, Dean's protestations that he needs Sam in his life are really not that clear cut. Dean only needed or wanted Sam in his life once John disappeared. He was perfectly willing to (as he put it) "not bother Sam", which also translates into not bothering to find out what Sam was doing as long as he had John to hunt with. We know JOHN checked in on Sam in the 2 (or 4) years he was in Stanford, Dean didn't and didn't seem to have asked John what or even how Sam was doing during that time. The same pattern shows up when Sam returns from the Cage. I totally understand Dean deciding to stay with Lisa and Ben. But he doesn't ask Sam to drop by if he's in the neighborhood, or to come over on his birthday, or for Thanksgiving or Christmas. Dean doesn't ask him to take an apartment in town as a base for when he isn't hunting. He is pretty much willing to let Sam go and leave him and his family alone. And this is all before he knows that Sam is soulless. The most reasonable explanation for Sam's actions are extreme PTSD, but Dean doesn't reach out to give Sam a safe place near Dean to work through it.

Look I know Dean loves Sam, but he expects Sam to live the life Dean wants and when Dean has a life that he wants that doesn't include Sam, he makes no effort to include Sam. This doesn't make him a terrible person, just someone who is a lot more inconsistent about how important Sam is in his life than may actually be true. Sam too, makes a life without Dean and has not reached out for Dean, but he also has not told Dean that Dean shouldn't live the life that makes him happy.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-05-01 07:16
What? Thats a whole lot of supposing... didnt invite him over for Christmas or ask him to just drop on over... you are kinda strolling into fanfiction territory here.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-05-01 16:38
I think what I meant about Sam being the problem is what he is doing right now with Rowena, TBOTD and witchcraft. I see Sam going down a much darker road than Dean as far as causing a biblical calamity.
I do know what you mean about some of the inconsistencies with characterizatio n. Dean does seem to need to be with a family. John was sufficient until he disappeared, then Sam obviously for many years. Lisa and Ben were Dean's family and when Sam suddenly showed up not really needing him Dean chose to stay with them. And yes Dean wants everyone to live the life he imagines and he is constantly disappointed when they don't measure up. Which is why Sam is in the situation he is in now. Dean seems to put impossibly high standards on Sam and Sam struggles to be all that Dean needs him to be. And now Sam has learned his lesson well. He will do whatever it takes no matter the cost to save Dean. He wants so desperately to not ever let Dean down again.
SueB
# SueB 2015-04-30 22:11
Do you think Claire will return next season? How does she fit into Cas’s arc?

Yes. I think her role in the Cas arc is to bring home the human consequences of the Angels' actions. Not just Cas, but all Angels. I think Hannah decision to leave her vessel was a lead-in to the notion that use of human vessels needs to protect those vessels and their lives. That it is temporary. Cas' case is somewhat different. He (the Angel) and his vessel (Jimmy) were both atomized multiple times. God put Jimmy in heaven (based on what we've learned this season) and Cas got a unique vessel. It is not clear that he retained Jimmy's memories but I'm going to say "yes" he does. But it's not Jimmy's memories driving Cas' actions this year. It's his own experience as a human. He's never appreciated them as much as he does now. So, I think it's natural that he holds himself personally responsible for what happened to Jimmy, Amelia and Claire. At this point, all that is left is Claire. Who naturally is conflicted about involvement with him. She appreciates him now as a separate entity but it's still difficult seeing her father's face. I don't expect it to ever be 100% okay. BUT I think her role in the future is to give him a non-Winchester unique connection to humanity. I think having more than the Winchesters as a connection will be important for his character (see below).

Are we amping up for the return of Demon Dean? It kind of seemed that way in the bar scene.
Yes. I don't think the bar scene was particularly out of character for Dean. What was evident throughout the episode, IMO, is that Dean is amp'd up. Smacking a guy's head on the table - no big. But I feel there's an edge to much of what he does. He's chomping at the bit in many ways. Sam has seen it but I think this is Cas' first exposure and that's why he wanted him to stay at the motel. Given the two (Sam & Cas) did NOT anticipate his attack of Gadreel last year and Randy & assholes this year, I think they are being hyper-cautious. But I DO think Dean is fighting every moment of the day to stay in check. He's doing very well IMO.

Now that Cas has redeemed himself, what other missions does and can he have on earth?
Redeemed is an overstatement. He's brought some closure for Claire. Based on his inability to cure Amelia from the 2 years worth of wounds the Grigori inflicted on Amelia, I suspect she might have died anyway - without stepping in front of the sword. But without Cas and the boy's involvement, Claire would not have been likely to find her mother or worse could have been killed in a preemptive strike by the Gregori. At least she now knows that her mother never really intended to abandon her but had been a prisoner by (as Cas called him) an abomination. In short Amelia's fate was probably sealed but at least Claire has some closure and that is a good thing. But "redeemed" is not the right term IMO. The consequences of his actions were horrific for Claire. But Cas didn't have a full appreciation for that until after he experienced everything he has over the last few years. He was back in "asshole status" post "Heaven Bible Camp" when he forced Jimmy's acquiescence in S4. His value system changed due to the Winchesters at the end of S4 and thru S5. He realized protecting mankind as a whole was more important than his own existence - without a doubt. But he didn't see the individual value until some time later. At this point he appreciates how horribly he impacted the Novaks and is now at least doing his best to prevent further harm. I'm not sure that's 'redemption'. I think it's more 'correctly assumed responsibility' .
Regarding his remaining mission on Earth - I think determining that is EXACTLY his character arc. I'm fairly certain Carver has decided to push that resolution into S11 because he has the space to tell the story. He's an odd bird in Heaven and many dislike him so it's not clear he can go home. He's not human, he's immortal, so he can either wander the earth doing little bits of good (and Angelic 'Kung Fu') or he can take on cleanup for any residual heavenly consequences on earth. For example, if that was not the last Grigori, then he's going to need to hunt them down and try and stop the from the abhorrent practice of feeding off human souls. He may need more of the Heavenly Host to help. But I suspect there's more than just the Grigori out there. He's got Metatron to find, retrieve the demon tablet, and get his but back in prison or killed. But even if they get Metatron...what other damage has been done to humans based on the misbehaviors (from the Archangels' reign, his time as Godstiel, and the fallen Angels). It could take a very long time to to get to the point where there is no more damage undertaken and cleanup accomplished. Heaven is not on this job as far as I can tell. So Cas seems like the most likely candidate to take on this mission.

So what are your thoughts, reactions, feelings? Leave them here!
Thoughts on the episode: Good character development for Claire. A nice crystallization of Cas' role in her life. Claire is off to the best possible place in the world for her. So..closure. As for Sam & Dean and their current story, I see this as the last 'cleanup' of non-mytharc stories of the year. It'll a 3-part finale from now on. It was nice to see Dean enjoying himself with Claire. I expect that's the last happy Dean we see for a while. Sam is just unable to enjoy anything at this point but I did like him working with Claire. Both of them working with Claire felt a little like them coming to terms with their own screwed up teenage existence. Sam got to reflect a bit on his Mom and reinforce that his choice of helping people is worth the shitty motels and credit card schemes. Dean got to reflect on how unprotected he was at her age (surely he had been drinking and shooting much younger than she has experienced). But he also seemed content with what has been his normal hunting life, even if he couldn't commend it to her for the future. I think he's also made it clear that he still sees no light at the end of the tunnel. He's just enjoying every moment he can until his time of reckoning (which he is sure is coming). So... the episode was IMO a combination of wrapping up non-mytharc stories plus level setting TFW prior to the final season arc.
Reactions: Enjoyable moments but not an on-the-edge-of- my-seat episode. I understand some folks are upset that Dean did not say "WE" but "HE" for saving the planet. *shrugs shoulders* He was trying to heal the wounds between Cas and Claire and give her closure that Jimmy actually made a good sacrifice. Explaining who enabled what, who sacrificed how, etc.. not the point of the conversation. I saw no de-whatevering of any character. It was appropriate in context with who (Claire) was hearing the message. I'm not worried that there is some retcon afoot. Not remotely.
Feelings: I feel both for Claire and Cas. It was a hard experience for both but they are going off in a good direction. I have less feelings for Jimmy and Amelia. I just don't know them as well and they're in Heaven. I think they'll heal.

Bottom Line: A character-focus ed episode like the calm before the storm. Worked for me.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-30 23:14
From your lips to Chucks ears.:D
''I remember when,'' ;) or ''back in the day''
the last 4 episodes of a season were all
geared toward the yearly ARC.
aaaah, those were the days.......:)
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-05-01 05:49
Nicely written SueB. Same thoughts here. I also thought it was an ok episode. :)

- Lilah
racestaffer
# racestaffer 2015-05-01 00:18
Can't log in anymore. Wonder if that's because the browser disallows automatic redirecting. Ah well...
Don't have much to add. I didn't dislike it as much as the ranters but some of the posts did make me smile. Like others, I was dumfounded by the Jimmy/Amelia reunion in heaven. I borrowed a line from long ago as they cut to commercial... waiting for the other shoe to drop. And the only thing more absurd than the utopian feel was Amelia updating Jimmy on Claire. Yeah... You just had your first 10 minutes with her in 2 years and, oh yeah, she just watched you get gutted by an angel. yeah - for sure she's amazing and totally fine. Though I agree with other posters that, yeah, she didn't seem too broken up afterwards. Whatever.

Earlier I said I wasn't happy that the show got an 11th season. This episode certainly doesn't make me rethink (or refell) that assessment. I'll say it again - the Adrian Monk side of me liked the idea of the show ending after 10 years, a standard crossroads deal and the reported initial contract periods for JA and JP. But it's become more than that now. There isn't a direction I can turn these days and not see deception. One of the last time I posted here I mentioned The Man Who Would Be King and a poster commented about that episode being my favorite. By the time I saw the post, it was a little late to reply, plus, I decided perhaps some things are best left unsaid. But I'll go ahead now. I'd be a bit surprised if I'd declared it a favorite with now qualifications/ reservations... perhaps in a moment of weakness (LOL). I know I said it might earn that status, depending on whether my interpretation of that episode proved somewhat on target or not. But that feels like a lifetime ago. I'm not such a goodie-goodie to think there's no room for deception in a world worth living in. But deception should be a highly infrequent surgical tool not the snake oil prescribed for every single thing that ails you. I'm so very. nearly. done. {sigh}
E
# E 2015-05-01 01:16
Hi racestaffer.. I am no sure I follow you. What deception do you mean? How did the playing out of the episodes lately alter your initial interpretation?
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-01 16:40
fyi, I have a question on the Discussion page.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-01 17:28
SAMandDEAN10
Are you trying to get me killed........:)
which of the 3 is my favorite, LHM :P