Good intentions produce negative consequence: a running theme throughout this week’s installment. It is a hard learned lesson on any day, but when you mix in spells and witches and hex boxes, well, it’s even more complicated and gets even messier. "The Werther Project" served as an epilogue of sorts to 10.18. The details of the Sam-Rowena agreement were solidified and the elements needed to make that deal happen were all brought together. We had some solid emotional moments and a first-class piece of honest confrontation about our characters and their actions. "The Werther Project" was an enjoyable, character driven episode overall – so let’s dive into it, shall we?


Savior Sam
Sam was a busy boy this week. Deals here, rescues there. As I mentioned above, one of the running themes this week was helpful intentions with negative consequences. The Men of Letters had the Werther Box for safekeeping intentions but it drove those around it to suicide. Sam and Dean were around to get the box from Suzy and take it to safer space and unintentionally unleashed it. Sam wants to help Dean and has made this deal with Rowena – to what end? To be clear, I’m not issuing blame, etc. simply stating that, as they say, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
The deal between Rowena and Sam is that in exchange for curse removal, Sam will execute Crowley. Last we saw Crowley he’d just been rediscovering his badass and manipulative ways – in particular by throwing out his mother. We also know the demon tablet is in play somewhere. So, the question becomes is Rowena going to reveal the assassination plot in order to have the Winchesters off Crowley’s dance-card the way she wanted it last we’d heard? Or is it truly to kill her son? If yes, then newly badass Crowley, who will likely get that tablet at some point, is going to be a bit more formidable than expected.
s10e19 375 sam listening
Initially, we witnessed that Sam was more hesitant about his deal with Rowena as evidenced by him pulling back the Book and mentioning walking out. Even the expression on his face was unsure. By the end however, he was absolute in his course. Whether Sam really heard the words Suzy said to him or not, they were words that he needed to hear. She accused him of being reckless in his actions and more unpredictable than Dean, the brother he was concerned about all the time. And she was right, because the more desperate Sam becomes, the more erratic he can become.
WP 2
By the end when he chains up Rowena and restates the exact parameters of their agreement, having factored in her devious ways and the likelihood she’d try and steal the Book or something from it, it seems he’s paused and taken a moment to consider variables in a better way.

Doomed Dean

Dean, whether he would or wouldn’t kill himself, can’t be killed because of the Mark. He knows this at every level of his conscious and unconscious self and it kept him from even attempting anything under the influence of Werther. However, he was able to have a conversation with himself that was interesting. First – how great was it to see Benny, even if he was a conjuration of imagination? Ty Olsen is such a great addition to any episode! Regardless of what Dean actually wants to do, how he wants to spare his family, he’s completely trapped by the Mark “for better or worse” because it will not allow him to die. Dean talks about how tired of fighting he his now – that in combination with the talk last week about a long beach vacation, Dean might be thinking of a sabbatical when this is all over. And really, who could blame him?
WP 1
Suzy commented that Dean wasn’t the unstable one, it’s Sam. I will say that as far as Dean goes he seems to have a good handle on when he needs a release, what his limits are and where to drawn his lines. He mentioned to Sam that the vampires were part of an outlet for him; he knows he needs that; he also acknowledged later that he shouldn’t have gone alone. Ultimately he told Benny that he misses Purgatory and he’s tired. Does he get to a place where he’s too tired to hold control anymore and the Mark overrides command? He’s so in control lately, but Dean’s mentioned tired or need a break a few times of late. You can’t help but wonder how long can he maintain.

The Werther Box
WP 5
As villains of the week go, the Box offered a unique battle. Not only did the boys have the challenge of a riddle to disable the box, but they had to do so while fighting with their own delusions (that Sam didn’t even realize was a delusion – and frankly neither did I). The box was a clever design and having Suzy guard it for 40 years, all alone was both sad and well written after we watched her family self-slaughter.
WP 4
One of the best scenes in the show was Sam and fake-Rowena at the box solving the riddle and then Sam bleeding for the box. That it needed legacy blood was a good failsafe, as nobody other than Men of Letters could have deactivated the box. The other great scene was Dean rushing down and shoving Sam out of the way because it “doesn’t just have to be one legacy” and bleeding into the bowl.

Regal Rowena
WP 6
Oddly, when she isn’t whining at Crowley, Rowena is not just tolerable but enjoyable as a character. Rowena as a hallucination was witty, on point and almost charming in an evil way – quite calm in opposition to Sam’s underlying panic about Dean’s state. She was quite unexpected, at least to this watcher, as a hallucination. In fact, I was hoping Dean would be let in on the goings-on when he rushed to find Sam and discovered Rowena. So, as characters go, Rowena is back in the good books of enjoyable and interesting for the moment - plus she holds a purpose.

Odds and Ends and Final Thoughts
WP 3

As always, great set designs – the old, run down Missouri house was beautiful and Purgatory felt just like the old days. Besides that, the eerie green sparkles driving everyone to suicide were sufficiently spine-chilling. The plot of this one was just right – nice bookend to last week, gathering the supplies for Rowena to hold up her end with Sam. Finally, that ending note was just right – angry witch and absolute Sam: this is what we’re doing, how we’re doing it. Period. Good episode, overall. Interesting new ideas with a hex box gone overboard and great way to stage a visit from an old friend.

Your thoughts?

Comments  

AS
# AS 2015-04-26 20:07
Haven't seen any episodes this season. Which should I watch? I don't care for one-offs.
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-04-27 11:28
AS - I'll give you my answer to your question. I'm sure every viewer will have a different opinion (how about chiming in team?)!

I wrote an article at mid-season that summarized what had happened so far. The first half of the article gave a 1 line summation of each major event so you might want to skip the picture essay portion as it would be a major spoiler for you! The 2nd half of the article, though, summarized the point of each episode and the viewer poll opinion on each one. You may wish to look at that for an idea of what people thought.

http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/images/Nightsky/s10chart.jpg (in the article)
This chart separates MOTW from Myth Arc, so that is one of your criteria.

My favorite episodes of the season so far:
1, 2, 3, 5 (stand alone 200th ep, but epic beyond measure), 8 (MoTW but I loved it), 10, 11 ,14, 17, 18, 19. I liked ALL except one but these were the arc heavy favorites.
Hope that helps!
ParadiseHeat
# ParadiseHeat 2015-04-27 17:24
This season can pretty much be summed up in a handful of episodes-so far
3-Dean is a demon, Sam cures him, Dean still has the MOC
14-Cain tells Dean that he will kill Crowley, Cas and Sam
18-the MOC is a curse, The Book of the damned is introduced and its spells big trouble, Sam goes to Rowena(Crowley' s mother and a witch) for help
19-Dean cant kill himself because the MOC wont let him (he's just be a demon again), Sam is willing to kill himself and let others die to save Dean

My guess is at most 2 of episodes from 21, 22 and 23 will join that list at seasons end. The rest is just filler or rehashing.
ParadiseHeat
# ParadiseHeat 2015-04-27 17:26
Sorry shouldnt have added the little spoilers
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-04-29 21:06
Perfect Synopsis :D
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 02:32
This may be a stupid observation but it's the third time its come to mind when watching this ep. Does it bother anyone else that the spell was green? Like Wizard of Oz, split in two, MOL green? Or the Wicked Witch spell green? Cuthbert was a MOL for a time... coincidence? Pretty color that VFX people were just jazzed to use? Or is there some meaning to it?

If someone else has already brought this up or it was discussed in the article itself then I apologize. I wanted to get the thought down before I lost it. :)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-27 07:02
Do you remember what color the smoke or dust was when that hologram little boy disappeared in Executioners Song? I don't recall and I'm too lazy to re-watch it and find out. Maybe you can look into it and "report back with your results." :) Anyway, if the smoke was green, maybe that's a typical "spell" color. But you remind me of a question I raised awhile ago. What makes a witch a witch? Many characters on SPN have used spells, but at what point does it make you a witch? Magnus was fantastic at spells--was he a witch? I need some hard and fast rules on this one, unlike the blurry, muddled, contradictory rules we've gotten on the MOC! 'Cause dammit, I'm rooting for Sam to get a little witchy.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 09:05
Hey, hey, hey now. No reason to be smart mouthy!!! Purple. No need to look, I remembered. How about them apples?!?

Cuthbert can't be a witch dum dum, he's a he. I think the word you are looking for is Warlock. Who knows where his powers come from. Can you self teach? Like earn a diploma in Warlockery thru your computer or by mail? Maybe its an online certification, like being able to perform weddings!!!???! !! Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids... I really don't know. I can say the man wasn't an idiot considering the first thing he did when he got a look at Dean was get rid of Sam, try and convince him to stay as his companion (yeah, sure Magnus, we all believed in that line!) and when yhat failed chained him up and hit him with a spell to relieve him of his will!!! Kidding! Not really... Also to your question what makes a witch... remember when Rowena was talking to potential dimwit sidekick one and two that she explained the three types? A Borrower who goes thru, uses, I forget the exact wording, a demon for their powers, a Natural who is born to it, which is what Rowena is, and then the Student (I can't remember the exact phrasing or titles but this is the jist of it) who can be trained by a mentor that has been approved by the Grand Coven. Normally I would think that this is the category where Sam would fall in but I think it will be more likely that he is a Borrower who may turn out to be just shy of a natural. And then Rowena and her beloved from the Scotts Lawn care commercial will try to bring Sam under control by forcing him to FEED THE MOL LAWN!!! FEED IT!!!!!! ;)

What? You didn't know they were a couple? Cmon now, it's obvious, they were made for each other! They are the only ones who can understand a bloody word they are saying!!! Tumshee indeed...
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-27 16:56
Wow, I'm impressed that you remembered the purple smoke. But I'll have you know I'm NOT a dum dum--so there! *sticking my tongue out at you*. On SPN they have at least twice referred to a male witch as a witch--in Shut Up Dr. Phil and in Man's Best Friend, etc. (and maybe even in the one where Dean aged because of the poker game?) And I know Rowena explained the different types of witches, but what explains all of the different people on SPN who have used spells? People like the boys, Bobby, Crowley, Lucifer, Metatron, etc. At what point does doing spells equal witchcraft? How can they all be student witches if they were not taught/mentored by another witch? Mostly, I think the writers don't feel like getting down in the weeds on the pesky rules of spells, but I've wondered about this, especially if they do have Sam go the witchcraft route. Because how was he able to pull off what Rowena referred to as a tricky spell? I don't think he would ever be a borrower turning to a demon for his powers given the events of the past, but I'd love it if he was a natural. These are the things I think about when I'm supposed to be doing my day job.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 19:24
Dum dum used in the most affectionate way of course! *Winks* Good questions? Maybe tapping into their innate good looks? Heartfelt enthusiasm? They all watched Charmed and took really good notes? Maybe casting spells to DO something as opposed to GETTING something is why they can. The bookclub "Kitchen Witches" in that one episode were benefiting thru their spells tho it was unknowingly via a demon while giving up their souls. Promotions, awards and money for crafting... LAME! If Im casting, Im asking for something huge!!! Whereas Dean and Sam are following the steps in a recipie, so to speak, to achieve a task. I dunno. Im just reporting back what the Master sa- uh, what Rowena told Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Now that you brought that to my attention I remember the phrase "He Witch" thrown around. And -2000 points to you plus a familiar with a collar for even mentioning MBFWB!!! Gah! I cant even type out the words. That Harry Potter witch bar? Ugh. NepDuo at their best. ;)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-27 20:59
Quote:
Maybe tapping into their innate good looks?
DING DING DING! We have a winner! I'll buy that--after all, the boys have certainly worked their magic on my heart. How's that for cheesy sentiment?
nightsky
# nightsky 2015-04-27 11:30
I wondered about the green colored smoke too! You're thinking that's a measure of witchcraft? You're not the only one that caught the color!
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 11:47
Dunno. I just thought it peculiar that each time it was green, especially in the Oz eps. The only time it hasnt been is when Crowley used the Rune of Amerinth or whatever it was named, on Cain. That one was purple. There are so many things in each episode that you could call out and say "surely that must mean something!" I have never been as clueless as I am this season. I have no real idea where we are heading! Just hopes and speculations!!!
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 03:19
If Suzy wanted to guard the Werther Box against any and all ever coming under it's murderous influence again, maybe she should've thought to SEAL THE WINDOW 5 FEET AWAY FROM IT!!! Not to mention that wall that took a beating from her...

Yes! Dean is doing what he needs to do to handle the MOC. Release, limits and lines drawn - such a great succinct way to put it! He has a handle on what he needs to do but no one is listening to him. Everyone else is going off half cocked in a flurry of desperation. No one is really seeing the larger picture here. Deans killings under the influence of the MOC have been selective not just random people on the street. It's almost as if the MOC is picking up on Deans moral code. Like it needs blood but it is using Deans killer instinct in a positive way, taking out evil guys vigilante style? I dunno, I'm just spittin out ideas here. Maybe the original MOC given to Cain is evil (first half dark) but the MOC copy (second half good). I found it interesting that Dean stated he feels as if they are all looking at him like a diseased killer puppy. What an odd choice of words to describe how he thinks Sam sees him. Why diseases? Why a puppy? The LAST word I would use to describe Dean right now is puppy. Much less a killer puppy. Disease/cure, puppy/harmless, cute and fluffy? I don't get it. Do you think Dean chose those words on purpose? There was no hip cultural reference or real play on words...

Is he in remission as Cain said? Or is remission as Cain was before, which required a killing percentage of exactly zero as well as communion with the bees and corn. Wonder what Cains mantra for meditation was??? Mmmmm, corn... No, not as in mmmm, yummy corn, although a big plate of freshly cooked COTC really hits the spot! You know what I mean. Mmmm, corn or mmmm, bees - that kinda mantra. I digress... As you indicated, how long can Deans faux remission last? I think the black eyed surprise in the bar bathroom (oh, that sounded all kinds of wrong, didn't it?) as well as his general behavior there was an indication that his white knuckled grip is starting to slip more and more.

Anyway, great read. Thanks for additional thinky thought material as we round first base on our way headed for home!
E
# E 2015-04-27 06:26
Quote:
Deans killings under the influence of the MOC have been selective not just random people on the street. It's almost as if the MOC is picking up on Deans moral code. Like it needs blood but it is using Deans killer instinct in a positive way, taking out evil guys vigilante style?
This is a good point... the way the MoC is currently being written, there is zero reason for either Cas or Sam to be desperate to save him. Having the MoC has now saved Dean's life on numerous occasions. For me it begs the question; what has the past two years been for then? To me, making the MoC in any way good, in any way helpful is an utter and complete waste of a good plot. Sam is desperate to save Dean why? Dean is hopeless why? Dean needs the mark gone why? If the Moc was supposed to be Dean walking in Sam's shoes somehow then they've failed. Now pretty much anything Sam does to save a Dean who clearly does not need saving makes him the villain all over again because his actions do not seem warranted in any way.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 09:26
Well yeah, but if Dean does die he still becomes DemonDean again and no matter how cute and cuddly that guy was, he's still a demon. That's not exactly something to shoot for life wise... I dunno. I love the MOC/FB storyline as well as DemonDean but the execution of it over all this time leaves me baffled. They could've done so much and instead they wrap it in time for that FanFiction fiasco. Supposedly according to Singer they were only going to have DemonDean be a three episode run even without FanFiction considering into it, but I don't know that I believe that. I can only hope that there is some kind of payoff to all this! Does it feel to you that there is going to be some kind of fakeout in the end, like Rowena in this last ep? I cant shake the feeling that things are not necessarily what they seem or what we are seeing I seriously want the MOC to be a permanent thing but only if it makes sense going forward and that they do it justice. It has quite frankly been nothing but a tease this entire time. I think DemonDean is still there without Dean knowing and the little black eyed dance off in the bar bathroom is an indication that Dean is losing the battle. Now whether DemonDean will emerge or a hybrid, I dunno but I wish to Hell they would do something. It almost makes you want to cry, these past several episodes have been good, really good. TES? Supernatural at its best. What is the excuse for so many that just left you wondering where your show went?
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2015-04-27 08:16
actually I do see sam's desperation as valid.

sam is right...dean is running out of time. he's going off on killing sprees on his own by the way, not to save innocents, but to satisfy the mark. regarding dean's honesty...as refreshing as that is and so long over due, i'm wondering if it has more to do with dean finally and I mean finally learning from past mistakes....or is it dean calling out to sam for help..as I feel it's a battle within against the mark. dean going on the vamp hunt wasn't about saving people as it's always been. dean said it..he had to get the edge off..he went after the vamps so he can kill..sate the mark. this time, the killing was for himself, and not to save others as it's always been. so dean being honest with sam, confessing not only that he killed alone, but why, could be the real dean fighting to save himself. calling out to sam for help..for sam is truly the only one right now who can see the truth. dean's honesty has actually been compelling sam to do whatever it takes to save dean, because he's running out of time. i'm not trying to knock down dean here...I do think that when this is over, dean and sam will learn to be more honest with ea. other...I honestly believe that..but right now, i'm leaning that dean's honesty is the real dean calling out to sam for help..battling the mark of cain dean which wants dean to succumb and will say and do anything to make sure that happens...maybe even convince others that the botd should be burned, when in actuality it could be the mark's destruction and dean's salvation.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 09:47
Dean is doing whatever he can to stay in control. He wasnt killing the vamps because of the family business tho they needed to be taken out, he was scratching that itch and satisfying the MOC. But the kills he makes arent random in the sense that he goes after bad guys. (My keyboard switched on its own to an E keyboard and its freaking me out! If I stop commenting you will know it was possessed and something has happened to me! Where is Sam and Dean when you need them!?! ) Maybe Dean is trying out the new leaf that he was talking about in the confessional? Some Destiels think he was talking about Cas but I think it was all about Sam. I think the reason Dean hasnt told Sam about the reemergence of the black eyes is because hes talked himself into believing he was seeing things. Either that or DemonDean briefly took control and he really doesnt remember? I think once we reach seasons end that some of this is going to make a lot more sense. I dont believe Dean was fully cured in the bunker. What exactly he is at this point remains to be seen. I just hope that they dont have Sam do a spell which is what causes that half to emerge.
Aslansown
# Aslansown 2015-04-27 11:42
I agree that "diseased killer puppy" was an unexpected metaphor. "Diseased" makes sense: was it Nightsky who had an awesome article about disease as a theme? And "killer" totally makes sense. But the "puppy" part was unusual. I think it's an acknowledgement of Sam's love and concern for him that he recognizes.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-04-27 05:13
Rowena has really grown on me. At first she was tolerable (I even didn't mind her so called over dramatics) but now she's in my top 3 villains. I really can't wait to see what Rowena does next. Maybe some revenge on Sam? ;D
Daisymae
# Daisymae 2015-04-27 09:40
I don't think for one moment Sam intends to kill Crowley (the devil you know and all that). Sam is so desperate he would agree to any terms Rowena presented even if he doesn't carry them out.
eilf
# eilf 2015-04-27 10:56
Quote:
Whether Sam really heard the words Suzy said to him or not, they were words that he needed to hear. She accused him of being reckless in his actions and more unpredictable than Dean, the brother he was concerned about all the time. And she was right, because the more desperate Sam becomes, the more erratic he can become.
Hi Elle, if you watch it again, the ghost of Suzie wasn't there. Sam was also talking to his own subconscious, same as Dean. Rowena wasn't there to get rid of her ghost, so the ghost couldn't have been there either. Sam was telling himself what he knows is true. It is what he has said continuously throughout the past - he (and Dean) are not more important than the safety of the world. The path he is being forced down is wrong and he knows it, and it will bring mayhem and damage same as it always does. But he has to do it anyway, because he will do anything to save Dean, as he has admitted several times recently, and as we have always known.

Because he knows that no matter what he does he can't win, he is going to do the thing that Dean told him as recently as last week he feels Sam has been failing at all this time - doing whatever it takes to save the big brother he adores.

I was glad to see him keep Rowena where she couldn't get up to too much mischief too :-)
elle
# elle 2015-04-27 16:58
Hi eilf,
Thanks for reading! :) Yes, Suzy is a projection of the Box/hallucinati on, just like Benny and Rowena. I thought it was worth commenting on though because it flowed with the theme of the episode - good intentions, bad consequences - and to Sam she was real enough in the moment. Beyond that, whether it was a figment or not actually vocalizing the words, the words themselves were real because they were Sam's which was the most important thing, but they came from his subconscious so the question was (a) whether he registered them truly and (b) whether he did something with that knowledge. He did act to control the variable of Rowena, so it's possible that it was a realization. Of course, he could just have easily have intended for that all along. The reason I suspect the former is because compared to his certainty and resolute statements in the end, Sam is much less sure and more hesitate in the opening when dealing with Rowena - he doesn't care how she does it, as long as she does it. By the end, he has controls in place; just a bit less emotion driving everything and a bit of forethought at the helm too. It made me curious if Suzy's (or fake Suzy's words) hit a sharp note for Sam.
Tealka
# Tealka 2015-04-27 14:36
Did the writer say the Rowena who appeared in the house was an illusion? I assumed she was real. After all, she's capable of astral projection, and I don't remember ever seeing her drive a car or take a bus. If she's such a powerful witch, why shouldn't she be able to transport from place to place and vanish at will the way Cain did? Besides, what would be the point of the writer creating a Rowena illusion? Sam didn't cut himself because he was driven by guilt to commit suicide. He spilled his blood to open the box--something the real Rowena wanted him to do so she could get hold of the codex.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-04-27 14:48
Rowena disappeared the moment the box was opened, while saying Oh, well, and she gave up as soon as Dean started adding his blood to the bowl meant to me that she was an illusion created by the spell. The protection spell didn't care WHY someone committed suicide, only that they died by their own hand. Sam bleeding himself to death to accomplish something is still dead by his own hand. The first MOL who bled to death trying to remove the spell, didn't die because he was guilty, he just sacrificed himself for the greater good. Heck, the Benny illusion wasn't guilting Dean, it was encouraging Dean to give in to escaping the Mark without hurting Sam, Cas or anyone else. The spell wanted anyone interfering with the box dead and it had been programmed to drive them to suicide. Rowena was an illusion created by the spell.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 19:30
Good explanation. Plus she was the same green mist as the box when she went "poof"
eilf
# eilf 2015-04-27 15:46
Quote:
Did the writer say the Rowena who appeared in the house was an illusion? I assumed she was real.
Actually, oddly enough he did:

Question: @robertberens so, was Rowena a werther, or a magic projection and actually there?

Answer: Bobo Berens @robertberens: she was a manifestation of Werther, not the real Rowena

Which means that Suzie's ghost wasn't there since it was 'Rowena' who magicked her away. Sam was the one being hard on Sam there, not an outside force harshly accusing Sam of something Sam needs to be told.

Sam doesn't need to be told what a bad idea all this is, he knows it all too well and he already blames himself. Even though what he is doing is supposed to both save Dean and protect the world from whatever Dean is likely to become.

The 'oh well' is exactly what Sam might have expected Rowena to say having been in several conversations with her - like the 'so rude' comment over the phone message :D It is actually pretty funny when you look at it that way.

I have gone from not hating Rowena to finding her entertaining, I am sorry she only has a few episodes left to live (and that isn't a spoiler that is just a given .... :D ). She is going to betray the boys so that is v bad, but you know what, at least she probably won't call them 'bitches' at any point so thumbs up for the red-head ...
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-04-27 17:07
Quote:
at least she probably won't call them 'bitches' at any point so thumbs up for the red-head ...
So I'm NOT the only one who hates that "bitches" crap. Good to know.
eilf
# eilf 2015-04-27 19:01
I think they are trying to say 'this isn't a gendered insult' it is an insult we like to use because our options are limited. But it is, because while Charlie uses it affectionately, for reasons that escape understanding, nobody on the show has ever referred to a woman as a 'bitch' as a friendly joke. The only male on the show who regularly gets called a bitch by other characters is Sam (Dean and Lucifer are the only two I can think of off-hand, Dean uses it as a diminutive* and Lucifer uses it to describe Sam as a possession)

It is possible the writers are saying satirically 'see, you don't like it when guys are called bitches so why is it ok to call women bitches?'
To which the obvious answer is 'WE aren't the ones writing the show. Any time YOU feel like stopping referring to female characters as 'bitches' that would be peachy, thanks. (And you can stop with all the 'douche' variations too while you are at it)'

Yeah I don't like the bitches crap :P
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 22:16
That isnt what bothers me about it, its the overuse of it. Just like the over EVERYTHING with Charming Charlie, it wears thin after a while. Going to Rome, okay, Ill give you that one but how many times did she say it in BOTD? Blerg.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 19:35
Oh trust me, you are so not alone in that. Just like with everything else about Charlie - overdone. Fine in small doses, actually start to warm up to the character and then the Robbie Thompsons "FAN FAVORITE" hammer comes down causing me to come back to my senses!
Tealka
# Tealka 2015-04-27 17:20
Thanks for the information, eilf. After learning that, I'm disappointed in Berens' writing--and in the episode.
eilf
# eilf 2015-04-27 19:49
So looking back to your original comment I don't think you are correct that guilt was leading Sam to slash his wrists? Though honestly I am a little confused as to why you are less happy with the storyline now. I am not sure what makes the fact that Rowena wasn't there disappointing? The spell tried to get Sam to act on guilt for the death of the woman. But, like Dean, Sam has a more encompassing drive. Dean can't commit suicide because he has the stronger force of the mark distracting him, and also he knows death will turn him into a demon so that is not going to help. I think that Dean broke out of the spell because there was nothing for the spell to get a grip on - can't die? Impossible to kill yourself then.

Sam in the meantime cannot be talked into feeling guilty enough to kill himself for the death of someone he doesn't know because he is totally in the grip of an obsession to save Dean no matter what it takes and what he has to sacrifice. He can't kill himself, Dean needs to be saved! That is what the spell worked out and that is why it rooted around and found Rowena - someone who is currently Sam's only possible hope in saving Dean, the spell worked on that fixation to have him single-mindedly do something reckless - if you sacrifice all your blood then the book will be retrieved and Dean can be saved. It makes no sense if he were to think about it rationally, because Dean wouldn't know what to do with the book if Sam died getting the safe open. That is the point at which it is clear that the spell has worked on him enough to get him to kill himself to no sane or practical purpose - a clear case of suicide?

It is actually (well, IMO anyway) a pretty cool storyline and holds together way better than almost any other story the show has done in a very long time.

It also appears to indicate that Sam has latent magical abilities - though he has had a good deal of practice at magic, as has Dean, so it may be no more than that - which is interesting, but probably won't go anywhere.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 22:19
Good description Eilf!!!!!
eilf
# eilf 2015-04-27 22:49
*Elvis voice* Thanguverymuch! :-)
Tealka
# Tealka 2015-04-27 21:53
Tealka in reply to elif
I thought the episode was excellent in most respects, but I was disappointed to learn that Berens went for a parlor trick instead of taking the opportunity to develop the character of Rowena. We were told that back in 1956, the coven was desperate to get the codex back, and Rowena's behavior suggested she was as eager as they were to get her hands on Nadya's "life's work." From talking to Sam on the phone, she knew his spell might not be strong enough to keep the Werther in check. She must have realized he'd be killed if he failed, which would ruin her best chance for accessing the codex and the Book of the Damned, as well the bunker, which likely holds information about the location of world wide repositories of supernatural treasures. So what did she do? Did she use trickery to track Sam down as she tracked down Dean in the bar? Did she practice magic, astral projection, or one of her other powers to try to locate him? Did she even come up with some sort of ruse so she could meet up with him and follow him later? None of the above. Apparently, all she did was roll over and return to her beauty sleep.

Had the real Rowena used magic to find Sam and dispose of the illusion, Berens would have elevated her from the cartoonish character she's been to a force to be reckoned with--a clever, calculating, relentless villain, determined to get what she wants at any cost, including encouraging Sam in a motherly way to bleed himself to death so the codex might be hers. In short, Berens could have given us a nasty MOTW in the Werther, while establishing Rowena as a worthy opponent of the brothers. Instead, we were left with a trail of yellow smoke, silenced "for good" by two Men of Letters, and the same old campy Mum we've been seeing all season.
eilf
# eilf 2015-04-27 22:42
Fair enough, can't argue with that angle on a storyline. However I honestly think the era of bad-guys on SPN is over. To really believe in evil and be afraid of a character the show would have to take its mythology more seriously than it does, and make way more of an effort to encourage us to suspend our disbelief. They aren't interested in that - it is all comic book refs, teenagers, geeks and in-jokes (which can ignore canon and belittle the background of our characters but who cares?) these days. Makes it hard to find anyone scary. And a tiny scots-woman with 10lb eyelashes is probably not the person to start with :D

(and I love M Night Shamthingywhats isname type stories so I really was entertained by the story and the twist),
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-27 22:45
I dunno, those lashes are pretty damn scary!!!
eilf
# eilf 2015-04-27 23:05
I am fascinated by them.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-04-28 04:33
What about the Evil Sam that Dean hallucinated in Yellow Fever? That was pretty evil ;)
E
# E 2015-04-28 09:13
Having the real Rowena there in the episode instead of it being Sam's hallucination would have robbed us of much needed and rarer that diamonds Sam insight. I have so little interest in Rowena or what she does that there is no way I would have taken anything to do with her over what we finally got (after 33 episodes of almost nothing) from and about Sam. Having Rowena be a figment was plot relevant as well to how the story was told. Besides Rowena knew Sam was working to bring to codex right to her and he did, so why would she need to go chasing after him when he essentially dropped everything she's ever wanted right into her lap? Having Rowena be there at the house and helping Sam for real wasn't necessary. Having her be a figment of Sam's conscience was crucial and far more necessary to developing the head space of one of the show's leads.... a lead whose gotten the shaft in that area for years now.
Jen
# Jen 2015-04-27 23:47
I'M THROWING THIS OUT THERE -- IT MIGHT BE A SPOILER SPOILER ALERT

Crowley spoke about bringing back a BIG BAD - or I read it on a thread. ??? Could it be the Queen witch from the covern. Rowenna didn't kill her she turned her into a hampster maybe Crowely can turn her back ?? Its been on my mind I can't think of anyone else He could let Lucy out but thats to dangerous ?? Abaddon well she is defiantly dead ?? Just thinking
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-28 01:10
But it said something about his enemy. Which could be Abaddon tho I think Dean pretty much shish-ka-bobbed her. I was putting up a silent prayer that it be Magnus but thats unlikely. Lucifer? Crowleys definitely on his *hit list... Dunno. Anyone ele wanna take a crack at it?
Jen
# Jen 2015-04-28 00:24
Another thought I had wondered if anyone could comment When demons pocess a meat suit they do it completely ? unlike a angel who can leave a meat suit and the person usually lives
Is the Dean we are seeing OUR DEAN ?? he died and came back a demon Sam cured his tortured and twisted soul with purified blood. But when you look back at other episodes, like the one with Abbadon on the bus with the military guys - when they left the meat suits they were dead and dead for months ?? All our demons Crowely, Abbadon, Yellow Eyes, Cain?, Meg have pocessed their body suits completely
Sorry I think I answered this now, Dean isn't pocessed - he is being tortured into becoming a demon ?? Is that right Thanks Jenny
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-04-28 01:31
Yeah, Dean isnt possessed by an outside demon.. The demon is he, he is the demon. I dont believe he was completely cured by Sam for a mulititude of reasons. Either DemonDean is hiding out gradually getting stronger and regaining control or Dean is some kind of hybrid human/demon/MOC bearer. Who knows??? Hopefully we will all have a better idea by the finale! I believe JC said awhile ago (the Showrunner) that the MOC would carryover into Season 11 so Im not sure how much of an answer we can truly expect...

In the past it was said that demons 'like to ride their meatsuits and put them up wet' meaning it wasnt likely the possessed party would survive. I think that is part of the reason, besides having the demon flee its host and report back to Crowley, that they just started to kill them while they are in the meatsuit. Exorcisim works but once again you are stuck with the report back to Crowley... Quicker and easier to just knife them with the Demon Killing Blade. Of course that means if you are ever unfortunate enough to become possessed and you meet up with our handsome Winchester boys, you are as good as gone. Sucks to be you.

Also in the past they stated that if you were possessed by an Archangel (Michael, Rafael to name a few) you would basically be left a drooling shell, so possession at that level, while accepted is not a cheery outcome. As far as regular angel possession I think the host is fine afterwards. You know, providing the angel that is currently riding you around like a Sherman tank, escapes getting angel bladed...

Sorry real tired when I wrote this, hope it makes sense... ;)