I love Garth’s character. He has a way of bringing perspective to things. In past episodes the writers have used him to help Sam and Dean sort through their differences. So when I saw Garth in the preview for this episode I expected that was the plan again. But that didn’t really happen. Sure, Garth reinforced the importance of love and family no matter the circumstances. And that’s always been important to Sam and Dean but the lesson wasn’t quite enough to gloss over their current situation. Something I’m both sad and happy about.
I don’t want the writers to take the easy way out with this one. The decisions made by both Sam and Dean have real, raw emotion behind them and Garth swooping in to fix it all would have felt very unearned. Still I can’t help but feel tortured over this strange in-between thing they’ve got going on.
Their conversation at the end of the episode was particularly difficult to stomach.
Sam: “Well something’s broken here, Dean.”
Dean: “I’m not saying that it’s not. I think we just think need to put a couple W’s on the board and we can get past all this.”
Sam: “I don’t think so. No, I wish. But we don’t see things the same way anymore. Our roles in this whole thing. Back in the church, talking me out of boarding up Hell. Or tricking me into letting Gadriel possess me, I can’t trust you. Not the way I thought I could. Not the way I should be able to.”
Dean: “Ok, look. Whatever happened, we’re family ok?”
Sam: “You say that like it’s some sort of cure-all. Like it can change the fact that everything that has ever gone wrong between us has been because we’re family.”
Dean: “So what, we’re not family now?”
Sam: “I’m saying, you wanna work? Let’s work. If you wanna be brothers, well, those are my terms.”
I wouldn’t deny that something is definitely broken between these brothers. Trust has been lost, and I understand that. But there is one thing that sticks out that I can’t reconcile; the conversation in the church. Is Sam watching the same show I am? When I watched that episode, I saw a heartfelt, emotional conversation between Sam and Dean. I saw significant emotional healing. Things that had been weighing on Sam’s heart for years were finally lifted. And yes, I saw Dean begging and pleading with Sam not to sacrifice himself. But at the end of the day, Sam made the decision to stop the final trial. So why pin that on Dean? If it’s something he regrets I think he needs to take some of that responsibility for it. I’m totally on board with him being upset with Dean for tricking him into angel possession. Even though I understand Dean’s reasoning, it was a definite violation of trust. But the church is a different story. To be fair, I may be more upset about this than is really justified. It’s just that I absolutely adored that church scene. For me, it was the most emotionally riveting scene since the “stone number one” speech back in season seven. It really tugged at my heart strings and Sam’s comments in this episode have cheapened that moment for me. Using that conversation as part of his basis to distrust Dean makes no sense to me considering that is the most honest either of them has been with each other. Ok, I think I’m beating a dead horse. But am I the only one who was feeling this way?
Either way, Sam and Dean are back hunting together for now. The arrangement is less than ideal, but at least they’re talking, right? I can only hope that some of that tension will ease and they can slowly grow back into their relationship. I don’t know how long I can handle a strictly professional relationship. I’m gonna need some heart-to-heart’s in or around the Impala, and I’m gonna need them soon.

I was also a little disappointed that the writers didn’t really dig into this realization that werewolves can be born rather than bitten. That’s a serious shift in the lore. Werewolf lore has changed a lot over the seasons. The last episode that dealt with these guys introduced the idea of generations. The closer the werewolf is to the alpha, the more control they have over their cravings and shapeshifting. But the idea that someone can be born a werewolf is a new concept that I would have been interested in learning more about.
All in all, this episode wasn’t bad but the shadow of last week’s superb episode certainly wasn’t doing it any favors. My biggest takeaway from this episode was just how much healing really needs to happen between Sam and Dean to get them back to where they need to be. It’s gonna be a long road, people.
As usual there are some quotes and moments worth mentioning.
Sam: “He’s a Skinny, Ichabod-Crane-looking kind of guy.”
Dean: “I’m gone for two weeks and you’re like an episode of teen mom.”
I was happy that Dean and Sam were able to talk about the mark of Cain. Leave it to Sam to notice it immediately. I was happy for the real concern he seemed to show. And he seems to be the only one who cares what that mark will mean for Dean. Besides us, of course!
I loved the scene where Dean tried to tell Sam that the surveillance cameras were a dead end and Sam was right there waiting for him. Come on, man. He’s not that stupid.
Garth: “This is Dean. He could start a fight in an empty house but deep down inside he’s just a big old teddy bear. And Sam here. Sam can be a bit insecure at times but for good reason, bless his heart.”
Garth: “You come in here guns waving, the jaw lines and the hair, it’s intimidating.”
This is how I feel at every con. Minus the guns, of course.

Rev. Jim “The road to revenge is a dark and lonely one. And that hole in the pit of your stomach, you never fill it, ever.”
Amen Rev. Jim. But unfortunately that statement is going to fall on deaf ears.
Garth: “I found it, love and a family. Who cares where it comes from?”
Garth: “First Kevin, now this.”
Dean: “Hey, Kevin. That’s on me. I’m the one that pulled him into all this. I’m the one that should have been there to protect him.”
Garth: “Well, I guess there’s enough of that blame to go around then.”
Dean: “Besides, somebody’s gotta live to tell this damn story someday. Who better than you?”
I hate when Sam and Dean talk about dying for good.
Dean: “Now, shut up and come here.”
Garth: “Really?”
Dean: “Hurry up before I change my mind.”
Dean: “Listen, that night that we went our separate ways…”
Sam: “You mean the night that you split?”
Dean: “Fair enough. I was messed up, man. Kevin was dead and I...I don’t know what I was.”
Sam: “Ok.”
Dean: “Hell, maybe I still don't. But you know I took a piece of you in the process and for that..Somebody changed the playbook, man. What’s right is wrong, and what’s wrong is more wrong. I just know that when, when we rode together…”
Sam: “We split the crappiness.”
Next week Sam and Dean go undercover as weight loss experts. I have a feeling this could be Sam’s missed calling in life.
Comments
Apparently Sam has decided that everything that has ever gone wrong is because of his family, which would be mostly Dean, I guess. This really puts a damper on Sam's speech at the end of Sacrifice and on what the brother bond really was all these years. IMO
Anyway, nice review Sophia.
Apparently Sam has decided that everything that has ever gone wrong is because of his family, which would be mostly Dean, I guess. This really puts a damper on Sam's speech at the end of Sacrifice and on what the brother bond really was all these years. IMO
Anyway, nice review Sophia.
Glass twitted he introduced new monster myth because it was needed after nine years. The problem, though, is that it wasn't clear what that new mythology is. Does the moon have nothing to do with a werewolf's basic nature now? Werewolves can be born or made, and I guess the born ones have more control over their basic werewolf nature than the bitten ones...and I am not sure about how the generational thing works but, apparently, if unconditional love is found, all will be okay...I think.
What exactly is Sam mad about? That Dean didn't let him die? That Dean made a decision for him that he didn't want? That Gadreel killed Kevin using Sam's meatsuit? Is Sam's goal still going after Gadreel? Given the confusion over exactly why Sam is mad at Dean, I can't even speculate, and I don't have a clue what Sam's "terms" even involve?
I have no idea anymore what Dean's goal is. Is he still going to go after Abaddon? Is he going to join Sam in going after Gadreel? Does Dean still think he is 'poison,' or is that mindset put aside now because it is more important to stick with family, and how will the new rules play into that.
What exactly is the story this season? Angel war? Demon war? Both wars? Brother reconciliation?
Once the audience is able to determine what the story is, what role will Cas and Crowley play in that? What role with the Winchesters have in the story? Is their story the A-plot or the B-plot? Is this another neck-jerking change of direction like last season?
I really have no clue now.
Glass twitted he introduced new monster myth because it was needed after nine years. The problem, though, is that it wasn't clear what that new mythology is. Does the moon have nothing to do with a werewolf's basic nature now? Werewolves can be born or made, and I guess the born ones have more control over their basic werewolf nature than the bitten ones...and I am not sure about how the generational thing works but, apparently, if unconditional love is found, all will be okay...I think.
What exactly is Sam mad about? That Dean didn't let him die? That Dean made a decision for him that he didn't want? That Gadreel killed Kevin using Sam's meatsuit? Is Sam's goal still going after Gadreel? Given the confusion over exactly why Sam is mad at Dean, I can't even speculate, and I don't have a clue what Sam's "terms" even involve?
I have no idea anymore what Dean's goal is. Is he still going to go after Abaddon? Is he going to join Sam in going after Gadreel? Does Dean still think he is 'poison,' or is that mindset put aside now because it is more important to stick with family, and how will the new rules play into that.
What exactly is the story this season? Angel war? Demon war? Both wars? Brother reconciliation?
Once the audience is able to determine what the story is, what role will Cas and Crowley play in that? What role with the Winchesters have in the story? Is their story the A-plot or the B-plot? Is this another neck-jerking change of direction like last season?
I really have no clue now.
I think people need to calm down and quit hating on Sam and try to see it from his point of view even if its difficult and I'm glad that you, Sofia, are at least trying to do that.
I think people need to calm down and quit hating on Sam and try to see it from his point of view even if its difficult and I'm glad that you, Sofia, are at least trying to do that.
Jmo of course
Jmo of course
Quoting Daisymae:
M, Ikeke, nappi--I think that's it exactly. Sam was so out of it at the church he's questioning if Dean talked him out of finishing the trials truly out of love or just to keep from being alone. Then allow his body to be possessed, when so many have already possessed it? Double the trouble...and pain...dealt to a guy who already felt like he had never lived up to his family's expectations or still being treated like an unruly teen after standing up to Lucifer and locking him back in the box. Wouldn't you be angry?
Dean is always impulsive--it's what got us into this mess to start off--even back to season 2. Mean? No. Sarcastic? Damn straight. Out of his comfort zone? Hell yeah! It's a valid point to wonder what the Mark is doing to him, but honestly this seemed like a compassionate Dean--or at least all of it he could come up with while being weighed down by guilt, grief, and knowing how much his only flesh-and-blood family hates his guts right now. Sure, it was more pushing Sam away, but Dean didn't want his brother to get hurt more being around him on the case. Clearly, Dean is still thinking of himself as "poison," but he seems to have a much better grasp on things than last week.
Quote: M, Ikeke, nappi--I think that's it exactly. Sam was so out of it at the church he's questioning if Dean talked him out of finishing the trials truly out of love or just to keep from being alone. Then allow his body to be possessed, when so many have already possessed it? Double the trouble...and pain...dealt to a guy who already felt like he had never lived up to his family's expectations or still being treated like an unruly teen after standing up to Lucifer and locking him back in the box. Wouldn't you be angry?
Dean is always impulsive--it's what got us into this mess to start off--even back to season 2. Mean? No. Sarcastic? Damn straight. Out of his comfort zone? Hell yeah! It's a valid point to wonder what the Mark is doing to him, but honestly this seemed like a compassionate Dean--or at least all of it he could come up with while being weighed down by guilt, grief, and knowing how much his only flesh-and-blood family hates his guts right now. Sure, it was more pushing Sam away, but Dean didn't want his brother to get hurt more being around him on the case. Clearly, Dean is still thinking of himself as "poison," but he seems to have a much better grasp on things than last week.
We all spoke about Dean's impossible choice at the beginning of the year; we knew it was wrong but we were glad he saved Sam. We also knew that Sam would be pissed... and now that he is, people are upset with him. Why?
Yes, Dean is in a dark place. I feel incredibly sad for him. But what makes you think Sam isn't in a dark place too? He told Death that he couldn't face being responsible for anyone else being hurt because of him. And now he knows about Kevin. We all know it wasn't his fault that Kevin died, but that doesn't mean it's not a heavy burden for Sam.
I also don't think the scene in the church is diminished. I think it's the key to how Sam is feeling right now.
Imagine going through that final trial, emotionally baring yourself to your brother, telling him that it hurts that his brother trusted an angel and a vampire over him... to then be convinced by your brother that this isn't true... that he trusts him... that going forward they can fight this battle together.
Fast forward several months and Sam suddenly has all those memories flooding back from the 'lost' time when he was possessed by Gadreel - to realize that Dean never gave him a choice, to realize how often Dean lied to him during that period (remember the scene in the car when Dean said 'trust me' about Sam's lost time).
I agree that Dean made the only choice he could to save Sam (and I love him for it), but he could've tried to tell Sam about it as soon as Sam was conscious again. He could've laid out all the facts - that Sam lets the angel stay to heal him or he evicts him and dies. That would've been trusting Sam to make the right decision.
Did I want Sam to explain how he is feeling to Dean? Of course I did. There was a pause before he said "Those are my terms" - I think he wanted to say more but he couldn't. Or he wants Dean to figure it out. I don't know. But to judge Sam for having a very human reaction - when we all predicted he would be rightly pissed - is incredibly harsh.
I also don't think Sam can see beyond his own grief YET, to even comprehend how badly Dean is coping. I believe Sam will come to understand why Dean did what he did, but he's not there yet. And, I for one, totally understand that it will take more time and more talking.
Just my humble opinion
We all spoke about Dean's impossible choice at the beginning of the year; we knew it was wrong but we were glad he saved Sam. We also knew that Sam would be pissed... and now that he is, people are upset with him. Why?
Yes, Dean is in a dark place. I feel incredibly sad for him. But what makes you think Sam isn't in a dark place too? He told Death that he couldn't face being responsible for anyone else being hurt because of him. And now he knows about Kevin. We all know it wasn't his fault that Kevin died, but that doesn't mean it's not a heavy burden for Sam.
I also don't think the scene in the church is diminished. I think it's the key to how Sam is feeling right now.
Imagine going through that final trial, emotionally baring yourself to your brother, telling him that it hurts that his brother trusted an angel and a vampire over him... to then be convinced by your brother that this isn't true... that he trusts him... that going forward they can fight this battle together.
Fast forward several months and Sam suddenly has all those memories flooding back from the 'lost' time when he was possessed by Gadreel - to realize that Dean never gave him a choice, to realize how often Dean lied to him during that period (remember the scene in the car when Dean said 'trust me' about Sam's lost time).
I agree that Dean made the only choice he could to save Sam (and I love him for it), but he could've tried to tell Sam about it as soon as Sam was conscious again. He could've laid out all the facts - that Sam lets the angel stay to heal him or he evicts him and dies. That would've been trusting Sam to make the right decision.
Did I want Sam to explain how he is feeling to Dean? Of course I did. There was a pause before he said "Those are my terms" - I think he wanted to say more but he couldn't. Or he wants Dean to figure it out. I don't know. But to judge Sam for having a very human reaction - when we all predicted he would be rightly pissed - is incredibly harsh.
I also don't think Sam can see beyond his own grief YET, to even comprehend how badly Dean is coping. I believe Sam will come to understand why Dean did what he did, but he's not there yet. And, I for one, totally understand that it will take more time and more talking.
Just my humble opinion
And a big amen to you as we'll ikeke
And a big amen to you as we'll ikeke
For me, the episode wasn't fantastic, but it still held my interest. It's difficult to see the brothers at odds (again), but I have faith that everything will work out eventually. I can only hope it doesn't take too long for a reconciliation.
At the top of my wish list ... DEAN being knocked unconscious and tied up somewhere, and SAM bursting in to save him. Wouldn't that be great?
For me, the episode wasn't fantastic, but it still held my interest. It's difficult to see the brothers at odds (again), but I have faith that everything will work out eventually. I can only hope it doesn't take too long for a reconciliation.
At the top of my wish list ... DEAN being knocked unconscious and tied up somewhere, and SAM bursting in to save him. Wouldn't that be great?
Knowing Dean, as Sam surely does, Sam stopped doing the trials and later said yes to Dean's plan on not dying without question. In both instances Sam could have chosen to make his own decision and not done what Dean wanted him to do. So Sam decides to let Dean make the decision and then blames him completely when the decision goes south. Sam is always waffling about what he wants. Dean is always willing to jump in with both feet and worry about consequences later.
Like Ginger I'm confused about what story we are being told. I was very interested after "First Born" to see where the MoC took the story but that seems to have been dropped along with finding Gadreel. Sam and Dean are working together but not as family. How does that work or even make sense? What are the terms of this new arrangement and did Dean even agree to them? I think I would rather have them apart then together like this.
Do the writers actually know what happens in previous episodes? It seems like each writer is telling their own story and not necessarily connecting to previous ones. And apparently Jeremy Carver, like God, has left the building and is allowing the free will of the different writers to control the direction of the show. As a devoted fan I feel like I'm the one being manipulated.
Alice feel free to delete my rant as negative and bitchy but it sure feels good to say it anyway.
Knowing Dean, as Sam surely does, Sam stopped doing the trials and later said yes to Dean's plan on not dying without question. In both instances Sam could have chosen to make his own decision and not done what Dean wanted him to do. So Sam decides to let Dean make the decision and then blames him completely when the decision goes south. Sam is always waffling about what he wants. Dean is always willing to jump in with both feet and worry about consequences later.
Like Ginger I'm confused about what story we are being told. I was very interested after "First Born" to see where the MoC took the story but that seems to have been dropped along with finding Gadreel. Sam and Dean are working together but not as family. How does that work or even make sense? What are the terms of this new arrangement and did Dean even agree to them? I think I would rather have them apart then together like this.
Do the writers actually know what happens in previous episodes? It seems like each writer is telling their own story and not necessarily connecting to previous ones. And apparently Jeremy Carver, like God, has left the building and is allowing the free will of the different writers to control the direction of the show. As a devoted fan I feel like I'm the one being manipulated.
Alice feel free to delete my rant as negative and bitchy but it sure feels good to say it anyway.
Quote: Dean didn't mention trust, but he was responding to Sam who did talk about Dean trusting a vampire and an angel over him... and Dean replied that it wasn't like that. So Sam would've taken this to mean that Dean does trust him - and yet he didn't at the beginning of this season. Hence Sam now not believing Dean (that's my opinion).
Quote: Every season has standalone episodes. It doesn't mean they've dropped the ongoing story. Crowley is off looking for the blade; Castiel is looking for Metatron. This is the formula SPN has used quite successfully every season and I doubt it will ever change.
I'm sorry you feel this way. I love the work that Jeremy Carver has done since taking over as show-runner. Is it perfect? No. But, for me, Supernatural is one of the most compelling programs on TV
Quote: Dean didn't mention trust, but he was responding to Sam who did talk about Dean trusting a vampire and an angel over him... and Dean replied that it wasn't like that. So Sam would've taken this to mean that Dean does trust him - and yet he didn't at the beginning of this season. Hence Sam now not believing Dean (that's my opinion).
Quote: Every season has standalone episodes. It doesn't mean they've dropped the ongoing story. Crowley is off looking for the blade; Castiel is looking for Metatron. This is the formula SPN has used quite successfully every season and I doubt it will ever change.
I'm sorry you feel this way. I love the work that Jeremy Carver has done since taking over as show-runner. Is it perfect? No. But, for me, Supernatural is one of the most compelling programs on TV
If there are any comments here that anyone think are offensive, please report them to the administrator. I'll look into it. But this episode has pushed some buttons, so I'm trying to allow honest discussions while keeping the peace.
I do get the frustrations. I have a few, but just watch your wording where it sounds like character bashing. We really don't want that because it gets people upset. Now, if you want to say the writers are making a certain character look bad, I'll allow that.
If there are any comments here that anyone think are offensive, please report them to the administrator. I'll look into it. But this episode has pushed some buttons, so I'm trying to allow honest discussions while keeping the peace.
I do get the frustrations. I have a few, but just watch your wording where it sounds like character bashing. We really don't want that because it gets people upset. Now, if you want to say the writers are making a certain character look bad, I'll allow that.
Was Sam so far from the truth in that speech ? did he not have any bases for his position ? or was it he said anything to Dean at all ? . Does he say nothing and the status quo in the relationship continues in the same way , with nothing changing and Dean continues to do what he deems he has the right to do where Sam is concerned and Sam accepts it because it what Dean does.
But again this was a typical SPN episode where Sam was concerned so maybe it was not one for me.
Was Sam so far from the truth in that speech ? did he not have any bases for his position ? or was it he said anything to Dean at all ? . Does he say nothing and the status quo in the relationship continues in the same way , with nothing changing and Dean continues to do what he deems he has the right to do where Sam is concerned and Sam accepts it because it what Dean does.
But again this was a typical SPN episode where Sam was concerned so maybe it was not one for me.
Yeah, it seems to be the consensus that Sam is speaking out of guilt for Kevin's death. I guess that makes sense since he is determined to be at fault for it.
I'm gonna give Adam Glass a pass on this one. Everyone writes a less-than-perfe ct episode every now and then. And let's be honest, I'd rather watch a lackluster episode of Supernatural than just about anything else.
I'm gonna give Adam Glass a pass on this one. Everyone writes a less-than-perfe ct episode every now and then. And let's be honest, I'd rather watch a lackluster episode of Supernatural than just about anything else.
LOL! "Maybe it's just the beard". But it's true. The beard threw me for a loop.
I thought the premise of the show was two brothers standing together to fight evil. Now most of the monsters are shown more sympathetically then the brothers. Sam now has no real point of view or it is so cryptic it could mean anything. Dean is always the needy dependent brother whose every motive is suspect. Dean is right when he said what used to be right is wrong and what is wrong is more wrong. That describes the show for me lately.
We could have every bit of the suspense and drama in the show without the brothers constantly fighting each other in a hurtful way. I don't blame Sam, I don't blame Dean, I blame the writers and I fear that with the increased ratings they are going to think this is a winning formula. Think of the comments on this site alone. Most are about defending either Sam or Dean or trying to defend both. Shouldn't it be about how they are going to tackle the bad guys not each other?
What relationship do I want? I want them them to value the bond they have over the mistakes they've made. I would have liked Sam to say that he understood that Dean made a desperate decision under difficult circumstances that went sideways and that maybe he would have done the same thing in Dean's place. I want Dean to admit that he wasn't considering the future consequences because he always acts first and worries about consequences latter and that was wrong and dangerous. I would have liked Sam to say he was still pissed at Dean for the lying and angel possession but Dean was his brother and he loved him more and they had both made some mistakes in the past but what mattered is that they learn from them and move forward. I want Sam to save Dean's life and Dean to save Sam's life. I want Sam to stop getting hit in the head and I want Dean to stop being so needy where Sam is concerned. Garth was right when he said there is enough guilt to go around. I want Sam and Dean to stop piling it on each other. I want the writers to stop pitting Sam and Dean against each other in major ways. I don't want a season long arc of brother against brother. I don't want the family business to be about two brothers who are constantly at odds stuck together in a car causing more damage then good. I want what I felt in the early days to still be there. I'm so very done with the blame game and the rehashing of old wounds. What is done is done and can't be undone so move on. That's what I personally want.
Just a side note. Actually Dean does listen to Sam's decisions as he did this week when Sam told him to slow down on ganking Garth and all of the family and do things right.
I thought the premise of the show was two brothers standing together to fight evil. Now most of the monsters are shown more sympathetically then the brothers. Sam now has no real point of view or it is so cryptic it could mean anything. Dean is always the needy dependent brother whose every motive is suspect. Dean is right when he said what used to be right is wrong and what is wrong is more wrong. That describes the show for me lately.
We could have every bit of the suspense and drama in the show without the brothers constantly fighting each other in a hurtful way. I don't blame Sam, I don't blame Dean, I blame the writers and I fear that with the increased ratings they are going to think this is a winning formula. Think of the comments on this site alone. Most are about defending either Sam or Dean or trying to defend both. Shouldn't it be about how they are going to tackle the bad guys not each other?
What relationship do I want? I want them them to value the bond they have over the mistakes they've made. I would have liked Sam to say that he understood that Dean made a desperate decision under difficult circumstances that went sideways and that maybe he would have done the same thing in Dean's place. I want Dean to admit that he wasn't considering the future consequences because he always acts first and worries about consequences latter and that was wrong and dangerous. I would have liked Sam to say he was still pissed at Dean for the lying and angel possession but Dean was his brother and he loved him more and they had both made some mistakes in the past but what mattered is that they learn from them and move forward. I want Sam to save Dean's life and Dean to save Sam's life. I want Sam to stop getting hit in the head and I want Dean to stop being so needy where Sam is concerned. Garth was right when he said there is enough guilt to go around. I want Sam and Dean to stop piling it on each other. I want the writers to stop pitting Sam and Dean against each other in major ways. I don't want a season long arc of brother against brother. I don't want the family business to be about two brothers who are constantly at odds stuck together in a car causing more damage then good. I want what I felt in the early days to still be there. I'm so very done with the blame game and the rehashing of old wounds. What is done is done and can't be undone so move on. That's what I personally want.
Just a side note. Actually Dean does listen to Sam's decisions as he did this week when Sam told him to slow down on ganking Garth and all of the family and do things right.
now we the audience know the lies came from fear. we all know dean did mean what he said at that church, but really what's sam supposed to believe? dean hasn't showed any faith in him at all.
i don't think glass diminished what was said at the church at all. as a matter of fact, i think it's more of a point that sam was trying to make to dean. sam questions dean's words because of dean's lying to sam. by dean lying, dean hasn't shown sam any real trust, so sam is reverting back to his beliefs before the trial, that dean doesn't really trust in him and still views sam as someone who's always failed him.
sam is in need of proof that that isn't the case. he needs to believe dean's words were true, but to do that, dean needs to earn sam's trust again. he needs to show sam that he does in fact believe in him and trust in him. sweeping everything under the rug, going back to their normal routine of just working and waiting it out isn't going to fix what's wrong. it's just going to continue that vicious cycle. no, sam is saying that they will work together because their working relationship isn't the problem, but if they are going to be brothers, then they have to work at it. that was sam's point to dean , and the we're family card can't fix what's wrong. they have to deal with their issues with ea. other to fix what's wrong.
although sam was hurt and angry and didn't get into it with dean at that moment, sam got into baby without hesitation. he went with his brother when he could've turned around and got in that awesome car he was driving and rode away. but sam loves dean and wants to fix what's wrong. he took the first step in doing just that.
jmo of course.
now we the audience know the lies came from fear. we all know dean did mean what he said at that church, but really what's sam supposed to believe? dean hasn't showed any faith in him at all.
i don't think glass diminished what was said at the church at all. as a matter of fact, i think it's more of a point that sam was trying to make to dean. sam questions dean's words because of dean's lying to sam. by dean lying, dean hasn't shown sam any real trust, so sam is reverting back to his beliefs before the trial, that dean doesn't really trust in him and still views sam as someone who's always failed him.
sam is in need of proof that that isn't the case. he needs to believe dean's words were true, but to do that, dean needs to earn sam's trust again. he needs to show sam that he does in fact believe in him and trust in him. sweeping everything under the rug, going back to their normal routine of just working and waiting it out isn't going to fix what's wrong. it's just going to continue that vicious cycle. no, sam is saying that they will work together because their working relationship isn't the problem, but if they are going to be brothers, then they have to work at it. that was sam's point to dean , and the we're family card can't fix what's wrong. they have to deal with their issues with ea. other to fix what's wrong.
although sam was hurt and angry and didn't get into it with dean at that moment, sam got into baby without hesitation. he went with his brother when he could've turned around and got in that awesome car he was driving and rode away. but sam loves dean and wants to fix what's wrong. he took the first step in doing just that.
jmo of course.
I don't know what kind of relation "people" want,but I think the Sam we got this episode was perfect.I like this Sam who is not possessed,de-so uled etc.He did not mince his words said what he wanted to say and well overall a win for me.This episode was good I hope they build on it.
I like this Sam, too. The problem with the brothers not talking to each other is due to Dean always cutting Sam off every time he wants to discuss something. Dean needs to rethink that if they are to be brothers again.
I'm sorry, but I have brothers and they do talk. Not in the same way women do, but they at least communicate with each other so that excuse doesn't float for me.
I'm sorry, but I have brothers and they do talk. Not in the same way women do, but they at least communicate with each other so that excuse doesn't float for me.
And I disagree with the idea that Kevin would probably still be dead even if Gadreel had never possessed Sam. How could Gadreel have managed to kill Kevin without the knowledge of the whereabouts of the bunker that Gadreel gleaned through possessing Sam? He wouldn't have even known what Kevin looked like or where to find him without the knowledge that he gained through Sam and by Dean leading him directly into the bunker. He wouldn't have been able to get to the tablets or have any information about what the tablets said without being able to use Sam as a spy. Perhaps Kevin could have been lured out of the bunker somehow and then killed anyway? Maybe…unlikely, but possible. But then it wouldn't have happened in the Winchester's own back yard, and carried out with critical information gained through the possession, and the deed done by Sam's own hand. The tablets as well would still be safe in the bunker, and its secrets could still have been figured out; Crowley could read portions of them after all. And had Kevin been lured away from the Bunker and killed elsewhere, the Winchesters would have felt bad about it, most assuredly, but they might not have felt so responsible; an emotion that is fueling both brothers at the moment. And because it's Sam's hand that did the deed, he knows the act could have been prevented had he completed the final trial and closed the gates of hell because he wouldn't have been around for Gadreel to possess him in the first place. No Sam, no possession, no dead Kevin.
And I disagree with the idea that Kevin would probably still be dead even if Gadreel had never possessed Sam. How could Gadreel have managed to kill Kevin without the knowledge of the whereabouts of the bunker that Gadreel gleaned through possessing Sam? He wouldn't have even known what Kevin looked like or where to find him without the knowledge that he gained through Sam and by Dean leading him directly into the bunker. He wouldn't have been able to get to the tablets or have any information about what the tablets said without being able to use Sam as a spy. Perhaps Kevin could have been lured out of the bunker somehow and then killed anyway? Maybe…unlikely, but possible. But then it wouldn't have happened in the Winchester's own back yard, and carried out with critical information gained through the possession, and the deed done by Sam's own hand. The tablets as well would still be safe in the bunker, and its secrets could still have been figured out; Crowley could read portions of them after all. And had Kevin been lured away from the Bunker and killed elsewhere, the Winchesters would have felt bad about it, most assuredly, but they might not have felt so responsible; an emotion that is fueling both brothers at the moment. And because it's Sam's hand that did the deed, he knows the act could have been prevented had he completed the final trial and closed the gates of hell because he wouldn't have been around for Gadreel to possess him in the first place. No Sam, no possession, no dead Kevin.