Warning!!!  If you haven't seen "Clip Show," read no further.  There will be extensive talk about the episode, so you will be spoiled if you read this without watching the episode first.  If you've seen it, come on in and talk about it with me!

Over two hours after the show ended, and I'm still not sure what I just saw.  I may be in the minority on this, but I am underwhelmed.  And a little pissed off.  But mostly, that episode felt kind of all over the place.  I know there are a lot of pieces to put into place, but I was disappointed by this episode.  There were some great moments, but overall, I wanted it to be so much more.  Since I write these after watching the episode and don't have the luxury of watching it again to really get things straight into my head, I think I'm going to lay out my crazy theory of the week and then try to get my feelings in order in my bullet points as things come up.  I hope that works for everyone.  Well, sorry if it doesn't work for you, but I think it's going to have to work for me!  Hee, the power of the author!

Theory of the Week

I may have talked about this before, and I'm fairly sure I have, but I'm more and more convinced of it's validity with each passing episode.  I want to talk about my Dark Tower/Reset theory.  For those of you who have read the "Dark Tower" series by Stephen King, you'll recognize that series as the inspiration for this theory.  For those of you that haven't, it's a very interesting read.  Gets a little cracky in the last book, but it's still worthwhile.  And I am about to spoil the book for you, so if you want to read that series, maybe gloss over this part.  Or just realize that I'm talking about those books in very general terms as I remember them.  They have been out for a while now, but I'll still give a SPOILER ALERT!!!

Okay, if you're still with me, "The Dark Tower" series is, in a nutshell, a story about a man called The Gunslinger and his quest to defeat the evil in the Dark Tower.  It takes him the whole series, but he gets there in the end.  But instead of defeating the evil, he finds out that he didn't fulfill the quest properly, so The Gunslinger gets reset back to the very beginning of the books.  And he's been doing this over and over and over again.

This is what I think is happening to the Winchesters now.  I think they're in this quest loop.  They're trying to stop the Apocalypse, in one form or another, but they haven't quite gotten the quest right yet.  So they keep getting reset back to the start.  But little things that they do each time carry over to the next, lessons learned that are important.  That's why there are these continuity errors, these things that seem off.  In one quest run, they went to the Grand Canyon.  In another, they didn't.  The worlds are starting to bleed together a little bit.
And now that we've gotten the theory of the week, or a repost of it if I already talked about it, let's get into the bullet points.
  • Abaddon.  YES.  She was fantastic.  I want her to stick around for a while.  Oh, hey, let's make her the new Queen of Hell.  Then she and Naomi can battle each other.  That would be delicious.
  • The kid from "Wendigo."  Awww, Tommy.  Sorry you're gonna die, but it was nice to see you again.
  • Nauseous and starving at the same time.  Sam is pregnant.
  • Why isn't Cass healing as fast as he normally does?  Is it because of the type of injuries he received or because of the bunker?  Maybe being in there weakens him somehow, makes his powers less effective.
  • Dean put peanut butter cups on a plate for Sam.  That is adorable.
  • Hidden torture room in the Bunker?  Of course there is.  Why wouldn't there be?  Also, Dean, it is a little skeevy that you have wanted a dungeon for a while now.  That's not even the fun kind of dungeon right there.
  •  "Is that Abaddon?"  "Not kill-y enough.  Must be the chick she possessed."
  • That old priest looks familiar.  Was he in another episode?  Update!  He was in "Wendigo."  Lots of callbacks to that episode tonight.
  •  "He is?  In his condition?"  Dean has no doubts!  Sam is going to get the trials done.  Now we just need Sam to believe it, too.
  • CASTIEL IS GOING GROCERY SHOPPING.  I DIDN'T KNOW I NEEDED THIS IN MY LIFE.
  • Metatron and Castiel together at last. This shouldn't be socially awkward at all.
  • Ooh, Naomi isn't running things in heaven like she said she was.
  • Metatron knows the trials to close heaven.  Of course he does.  I mean, that does make sense because he wrote them.  Now, and here's just a little suggestion, don't you think it might also be an interesting idea to ask Metatron what OTHER tablets he might have written?
  • Dear Castiel, I just want to remind you that the last time you tried to fix heaven without talking to the Winchesters first, things went horribly, horribly wrong.  That woman isn't going anywhere.  There really is no need to rush into this.  Take your time and talk to Sam and Dean about closing the gates of heaven.  Seriously.  You've just been under Naomi's influence for a long time.  Don't fall right back under another angel's influence.  Who knows what his motives really are?
  • Let's talk about the Nephilim, shall we?  Glad she had some power like the antichrist kid did.  I want to know who the angel father was, though.  Now, a possibility is Castiel while he was Emmanuel, and the girl just aged really fast like Emma the Amazon.  But I think if that was the case, Metatron would have said something or the writers would have played that angle up more.  So, who is this angel?  They might have made a good ally since they clearly love humanity so much.
  •  "I'll stump you to death.  It'll be swell."  Abaddon and the black knight would be good friends.
  • Why are they walking away from a demon?  She's barely even restrained.  She has a devil's trap bullet in her, but don't you think a little extra protection would be wise?  Guys?  No?  Just gonna leave a SUPER POWERFUL DEMON BY HERSELF FOR A WHILE?
  • Oh, wow, I am surprised that Abaddon escaped.  Just so surprised.  The hand thing was fun, though.
  • Also, Crowley, never change.  666 text.  "What are you wearing?"
  • Did we really need to see the hearts in the cupcakes thing again?  Gross.
  • Using the "Supernatural" books against them.  Smart move, Crowley.
  •  "Insane is kind of what we do."
  • Sarah misses Sam's old hair!  Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
  •  "Saving people, hunting things. The family business."  Crowley, that was a low blow.
  • All of the awards to Mark Sheppard for that monologue, though.  That was amazing.  Horrible and emotional and amazing.  Probably the highlight of the episode for me.
  • God damn it, show.  God damn it.  You really don't need to kill everyone off.  I mean, really.  Hey, here's a twist!  Bring back a character we care about and then DON'T kill them off!
  • What is going on with Metatron?  He wanted to hide from the angels, and now he wants to fix heaven and lead the angels?  Something isn't right with him.  What if Naomi is controlling Metatron?  Or what if Metatron isn't Metatron at all but a demon or someone in Crowley's employ?
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, time to weigh in.  What did you think of the episode?  Did you like it?  Did it leave you wanting more?  Did bringing back Sarah only to kill her piss you off?  Tell me about it.  But remember that while this is a free-commenting article, we still expect you to be respectful of other posters, the show and its actors, writers, etc, and me, ha.  Don't make us edit your posts!

Comments  

Angie723
# Angie723 2013-05-09 01:03
I agree - something's not right with Metatron. Meanwhile, I LOVE your Dark Tower theory. I think the problem will come from the fact that Crowley isn't actually a demon. I mean, what if he's a Cambion or something along those lines. If they base the entire trials completion on him, and he allows them to think all's going according to their plans... well, that could certainly ruin everything. Then, what if they were to close Heaven while NOT closing the gates of Hell AND resetting everything regarding the Apocalypse, as in releasing Lucifer? I mean, if Crowley didn't know that would happen, he'd be in lots of trouble when Luci was out, but that'd be pretty interesting too. So many possibilities.. . I can't wait. And I agree - Sarah should have lived. But if everything were to reset, perhaps she would. Maybe Bobby would too?
dashnjo
# dashnjo 2013-05-09 01:30
There is something off about Metatron and I hope Cas figures it out before its too late because he's not talking about it to the boys. Of course, they have their hands full and Dean's being mean to him. Remember the last time Dean pushed Cas away and how well that worked out?

Does anyone else find it weird that in all of the trials for closing Hell up Sam didn't have to kill anyone innocent ... kill a hellhound, return an innocent soul (Bobby ... meep) to Heaven and cure a demon (looks like it might be Crowley after all) but the first trial for Angels is to kill an innocent? Plus, who's to say that Metatron isn't playing the free-thinking, good angel with other intentions? He could be playing the "secretarial pool" angel enough that Cas has to kill the girl because otherwise she'll kill him? They do show Naomi (I have a word I can't type here for her) looking like she's trying to perform the same sort of "lobotomy" as what Cas remembered in Torn and Frayed on Metatron so maybe she was able to get to him. Ugh!

And Sam is so full of self-doubt it kills me! After watching Sarah die I don't blame him ... that was horrific! She had a husband and a child, something he'd always wanted and because they'd saved her Crowley killed her. He's so twisted! Did love how Abaddon referred to him as "the salesman"!

Is it next Wednesday yet? Plus, somehow I doubt there will be any sense of closure next week and even longer to go. Ugh!
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-09 02:19
Quote:


Does anyone else find it weird that in all of the trials for closing Hell up Sam didn't have to kill anyone innocent ... kill a hellhound, return an innocent soul (Bobby ... meep) to Heaven and cure a demon (looks like it might be Crowley after all) but the first trial for Angels is to kill an innocent?
I thought the same thing.
dashnjo
# dashnjo 2013-05-09 03:06
I wasn't totally blown away by this episode but it was more setup for the finale which really just ends up being frustrating more than anything else. It had it moments for sure but there haven't been a lot of second to last episodes that I've felt totally satisfied with because I'm already thinking ahead to the finale and there always ends up being more questions than answers.

Obviously, Crowley is upping the stakes because he doesn't want them to close the gates and is on the offensive making it more personal as he's so good at. Sam, at least, is questioning whether or to they should go on and Cas is ... I dunno, but since he's telling Dean in the promo to next week they need to close the gates to Hell and Heaven maybe he stops long enough to question what Metatron's telling him.

As far as funny goes, Cas trying to buy Dean beer, pie and Busty Asian Beauties was hilarious! I was laughing and telling my husband how sweet it was while realizing I was saying it was sweet that an angel was buying porn for Dean ...
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2013-05-09 11:44
I remember I posted this on another site that the trials seem to consist of prifying or sanctifying something from Hell., as a way of purifying it or sanctifying Hell and thereby nullifying it. The key seems to be removing things from Hell. A hellhound, and innocent soul and a demon.

It looks the trials to close heaven are the opposite. You have to debase something from Heaven or in the name of Heaven.
Pduke216
# Pduke216 2013-05-09 12:42
Here is my thinking, maybe the tablets are reversed or something to that effect. Matbe Sam and Dean are actuallt closing the gates to heaven and Cas is closing the gates to hell. Just throwing this out their.
Rhonda Benedict
# Rhonda Benedict 2013-05-09 01:42
By the end of the episode I felt like I had emotional whiplash. What the hell are they doing??? I'm sorry, but killing Sarah like that was completely gratuitous and uncalled for, all for what? So Crowley could give another one of his pompous 'I'm better than YOU' speeches??

Why does it feel like Dean's been shoved into the background lately? I know this is Sam's chance to redeem himself but Dean's been little more than Sam's hand-holder these last few episodes, and it just doesn't feel right. It's fantastic that his faith in his little brother is rock solid at this point, but shouldn't he be doing more to help?

And what is Metatron up to?? He's saying CASS has to shut the Gates of Heaven???

I guess I'm just really kind of confused at this point.
Alize
# Alize 2013-05-09 01:49
I also was not super impressed with this episode-it wasn't bad, but I think I had my expectations way too high after The Great Escapist. Everything tonight seemed a little too convenient and set up at times. But maybe that's because of an idea that I've seen floating around that Metatron has just been creating this whole thing (like season 8 or all of the seasons) as a story the whole time-if that's the case, he definitely should have stuck to God's dictation, instead of his own fan fiction. I'm not totally sure I buy this theory, because it would be way meta, even for Supernatural, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.

Cas - what to say about Cas? I guess still being new to the show (I just finished all of the seasons about 2 weeks ago), it surprises me that he does whatever someone tells him to do all the time. Maybe it's that angel programming, like when he wanted Anna to tell him what to do in one of the earlier seasons. Or maybe Naomi has wiped him so many times that ability to question is becoming more diminished. I don't know, Cas is a bit of an enigma for me still.

I'm also a little sad that they just had that one Nephilim-I was (and still am, to a certain extent) convinced that Crowley has Nephilim ties himself. The Nephilim are pretty awesome in terms of angel lore and the show could do/could have done so much with them.

I was completely blown away by Mark Sheppard-I normally crush on Crowley, what with the accent and the saucy taunting of the boys, but I was horrified tonight-I actually had chills watching him with that monologue. It was like seeing that charming bad boy from high school suddenly turn into the abusive boyfriend you know is really there under the surface, but don't want to think about. He did an incredible job tonight with that.

I wasn't that bothered by Sarah being killed (don't hate me); I liked her earlier chemistry with Sam, but people die all the time on this show. I've always liked him with Cara Roberts best, I'd love to see her come back.

And from the promo next week, if Crowley is the demon to cure, I will be super sad, because while I think Abaddon would be an amazing Queen of Hell, I want Mark Sheppard to still be around as Crowley in some capacity.

And if they follow the ritual in that film, with injecting purified blood into Crowley every hour like the priest did, it's going to take till next season in terms of time to actually cure him-he's hundreds of years old, isn't he? That is a ton of purified blood and a lot of time the Winchesters are going to be spending on that. :)
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-09 02:15
Alize, that was amazing coincidence about the Nephilim. Almost psychically perceptive. I mentioned below before I saw your post. Crowley still could be one. It could be that Metatron is wrong or up to something.

Your thoughts on the Crowley speech were also perfect. That's exactly how I felt but you said it so much better!
Alize
# Alize 2013-05-09 02:24
Thanks! :)

And while I was kind of meh when Sarah died, I do agree with you about the desperation from the boys-that part I found terribly sad. Sam seemed so defeated-I know he's felt defeated before, but it was like Crowley taking away their life's purpose touched him in a deeper place than anything had previously.
Samantha Burton
# Samantha Burton 2013-05-09 01:51
Have to say I was pretty disappointed with the episode too. Like you said it did have some awesome moments but in general I think it could have been more.

Couldn't believe that the boys just left Abaddon alone like that! Would have been better if Dean had gone out with the phone and left Sam to watch Abaddon, then Sam could have had another coughing fit and collapsed allowing her to escape without making the boys look incompetent!

Also there's definitely something up with Metatron. Was hoping Cas would be a little more wary after all he's been through. Did love seeing Cas shop though. I NEED PIE will definitely go down as another classic Cas line (or Cas-ic as I say, I'm sorry :P ).

Anyway, hope that made sense haha! To be fair it is 6.50am in Scotland right now and I haven't been to sleep yet (stayed up to watch a live feed! :) ) so can blame sleep deprivation for my rambling!

Looking forward to next week and the finale. Hope it's an epic ending to what has been, for the most part, an excellent season! Right, better go to sleep before I collapse! ;)
isleofskye
# isleofskye 2013-05-09 01:59
I've been reading many posts during the past year about how everything we have been seeing this season might be a dream or an hallucination (if only!), but now that there is only one episode left, I'm afraid the only thing that is true is that these are awful writers who have given us a woeful season, beginning with Sam's ridiculous not looking for his brother; to filling the episodes with sub- plots that have gone nowhere; to contrived drama between the brothers just for its own sake; to glaring mistakes such as the Grand Canyon one, which may be a minor thing to some but in season two , Dean clearly stated that he had never been there and tons of fan fiction have also been written about it; to trashing past canon which eliminated all the suffering the Winchesters went through in earlier seasons (see Taxi Driver where getting into Purgatory and Hell was easier than Dean getting his pie.)

What happened to investigating the urban legends, the brothers killing monsters, fighting back to back, saving people, hunting things; the dark scary atmospheres?

Carver has turned the wonderful SPN into a sit-com where the characters go off to model clothes and do grocery shopping!

Next year seems set to be even worse, unfortunately. :(

As for not criticising the writers, I agree that there should be a certain containment in the language used , but they are well-paid to give us good, logical and exciting stories and when they do not it's fair to say so.

I have no problem in saying that Carver wrote a wonderful episode in Mystery Spot but as showrunner when he okays episodes like Portia the dog-girl or Bitten or episodes like Taxi Driver where he practically eliminates all the canon that has gone before, then it is right and just to say so.
PENNY JAIME
# PENNY JAIME 2013-05-09 15:47
WOW. No offense intended; but I feel like we are watching 2 different shows! I have felt like the show has gone back to the earlier seasons format. I have loved all the emotions the brothers have shown. That, for me, is what has been missing. that is what the show had when it began that made us all fall in love with Sam and Dean. Sure, they are different; but they are a lot older. This has been one of the best season they have ever had, for me. Clever writing, (epecially for Crowley) and some great characters. There is only 1 episode that I didn't care for out of the entire season.
It still gives me that wonderful hour long escape from the real world. I love going on a wild ride with Sam and Dean every week!!
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-05-09 17:45
I agree with you PENNY JAIMIE I love the hour I get to spend with Sam and Dean each week. Their emotions the brothers have shown are what made us fall in love with them..I also agree that it's one of the better seasons...I love it all even the filler episodes. And people need to remember, there are different writers and showrunners...t hey are going to have a different take on things..they are going to show their creative differences from what's been done before. Sure for the most part they stay on track, but maybe they need something to go a certain way and they need to make something up so they boys can get it done...Like finding a way to Hell..We know from past seasons that a simple crossroads demon wouldn't have that knowledge.....b ut it led us to AJ and from there the reaper could take Sam to Hell (or drop him off in Purgatory and tell him where to find the portal). Anyway, I think if people really love the show, they should be willing to overlook certain details..I would rather lots more episodes with a few errors to cannon than the show stopping completely.
isleofskye
# isleofskye 2013-05-10 04:02
Reply to Penny Jaime

We all see things in different ways so absolutely no offence.
X
However IMO there is no comparison to earlier seasons. In those seasons the plot lines and story arcs had a meaning and a logical build up with clues and moments that were revealed a little at a time in a logical sequence, coming to a thrilling end in the last episodes.
X
This season has been nothing like previous ones.
It has been all over the place, stomping over past canon and inventing new stuff that is debatable.
X
As for the brothers' relationship, recently it just feels thrown in to keep fans happy. It has nothing of the feels of the first seasons.
Carver ruined the brother bond at the start of this season giving us OOC characters who didn't act like Sam and Dean and then suddenly after episode ten it's all blown over without any explanation, as if it had never been, without the boys ever hashing things out.
X
In past seasons even with the whole Ruby and Apocalypse thing, I never ever felt that the brothers didn't love each other but in the first episodes of this season, I really felt they didn't care for one another and it was really sad.
X
IMO Crowley was much snarkier before now he has lost sonme of his sarcasm and it's a shame.
X

There are many other negative things like the bad monster of the week episodes.
In past seasons they were really good but now they are middling to completely forgetttable..
As for the story-arc, what does closing the gates of Hell even mean?
We don't know what it would lead to and it's superfluous now that it's so easy to get in and out of Hell and Purgatory.
X
Anyway, the ratings are good because the saga of the brothers and their brotherly bond is addictive and enjoyable and that's great for those who are enjoying the season.
I think it's the worst season ever of SPN but that's just my unimportant opinion and counts for nothing.
X
The show has a great and loyal fan-base and the writers should try even harder to give us better stuff, keeping in mind past mythology and building on it, not trashing it.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-05-09 18:43
I agree with you isleofskye. This season has been a mess with canon changes, and Sam not looking for Dean with NO look at why. Carver's Supernatural is not my Supernatural. It's doing well in the ratings, so obviously I'm in the minority. Well, that happens.
isleofskye
# isleofskye 2013-05-10 04:21
Reply to percysowner.
X
Yeah. I so wish that things had been different this season. Sera Gamble left things in a great position at the end of season seven. So many exciting ways season eight could have gone; for me Carver's choice was meh!
X
It just feels that there hasn't been enough care taken to do things right.
There seems to be no synch between episodes, each writer penning his own little forty minute show with great mention of their own characters like the continual reference to Garth in nearly every episode.
X
So many things to criticise unfortunately.
For example, I love Bobby and was so sad when he died but Sera gave him a wonderful send off and while the ' 'ghost Bobby' iin later episodes was debatable, it had a certain logic.
He stayed around hoping to help his boys and I could go with that, but the shock use made of him in the canon-trashing Taxi Driver episode was completely uncalled for.
X
However as you say, the ratings are good so kudos to Sam and Dean!
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-09 02:02
Ardeospina, I think were on the same page. It might be one of those that I will like more with more viewings. It wasn't that I hated it or even disliked liked it and there were parts that were really effected me. I hated that Sarah died. I was literally yelling at the TV don't kill off Sarah, don't kill off Sarah. But it was gut-wrenching to watch their desperation and the devastation afterword. I was tearing up watching Sam trying to save her.And both their faces when they saw the hex bag after she was dead was just so terrible. Like S5 terrible. The idea of using their books and the people they save against them was brilliant in a horrible way. I agree Crowley monologue was terrific and makes me hate him-which is probable what they were going for I'm guessing.

I also thought the way Abaddon escaped was terrific but was thinking,"Why isn't she in another Devil's trap?" I mean I would hedge my bets.

And I totally agree with on Castiel too. I was saying the same thing. Talk to the guys before you do something stupid. Plus I felt really sorry for that girl. We have no proof she'd ever done anything wrong. I'll also admit tob being disappointed that Dean's not taking the lead on the angel tablet. But I did still really like the scene with Castiel and Metatron.

I love your theory. You know what it reminds my of is fan fictions that take place in alternative realities. Typically not my cup on tea, but I've tried them before and what's weird is that they often have the other characters revolving around the main in similar ways. And with all the reusing of actors this year, maybe that's related. Or not.

The other weird thing a poster, Alize, was JUST guessing that Crowley might be Nephilim yesterday. I don't know I just thought that was a weird coincidence since I don't think the Nephilim thing was ever on the spoilers, was it?
Alize
# Alize 2013-05-09 02:17
Quote:


The other weird thing a poster, Alize, was JUST guessing that Crowley might be Nephilim yesterday. I don't know I just thought that was a weird coincidence since I don't think the Nephilim thing was ever on the spoilers, was it?
Heh...my husband and daughter laughed quite a bit at me when Metatron pointed out the waitress in the restaurant as Nephilim and I let out a resounding "HA! I told you!"

And I started looking up the Nephilim thing because I was thinking about what the writers hadn't done yet with the angels (and was feeling a little obsessive last night). I still want to believe that Crowley is a fallen Nephilim angel, but he's probably not.

Oooh...but if he was, what if that waitress was his daughter or relative? But that would mean he might have to care about someone/somethi ng, which would be OOC for Crowley.
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2013-05-09 03:30
I’m going to go very, very quick with this but I do believe you could be right in your Dark Tower theory. One of my biggest irks with the season was (what I felt at the time and might still be feeling now) was the rehashing of storylines ie trusting a monster, seeking revenge against the demons that ruined their lives etc etc (I have a list on here somewhere). However, if you take your speculation into account, then that could be intentional.

Take, for example, the Sam not looking for Dean scenario. Had he not looked for Dean to the extent that he did in season 3 then he’d never have set foot on that dark path. Had he not looked for revenge in season 4 there would have been no demon blood and no making him powerful enough to be able to kill Lilith. So, was Sam ‘right’ (for want of a better word) to not look for him? Or was it an experiment to have Sam not look for him to see how things would pan out, if the end result would be different?

Then you have the other side of it where in season 4 Dean wanted Sam to back off with the revenge thing. Now he’s the one pushing it. Oh, I dunno.

Even the promo for next week reminds me of the second (or third) last scene in season 4 when Dean was trying to stop Sam from doing something they both previously believed was right up until the last minute and Ruby closed the door just as he was about to stop him. Only this time maybe Dean gets there on time (and there’s no Ruby) to stop him from stopping him from doing something potentially disastrous (does that make sense??)

I’m sure there are loads more I’ll think of when I wake up properly.

Course the downside of that could mean that they were ‘wrong’ (for want of a better word) for putting Michael and Lucifer back in the Cage, unless it’s a case of the end result doesn’t matter, it’s the process that is important. It’s kinda like God is some big baker and he wants a cake and he’s experimenting with different ingredients and putting them in at different times and cooking temperatures and whatnot to get just the cake he wants. Or maybe he’s experimenting with making the perfect pie! Oh man, is Dean God???

I wonder if the ‘purified’ blood needed to cure Crowley might be Sam’s. It’s strange that he mentioned the demon blood and the fact that he (felt that he) was being purified last week.

The slow mo (was it slow mo?) of when Sam and Dean were frantically searching the room was heartbreaking (and that entire part when they were with Sarah, especially the part when Dean came in with the big cheeky grin ala ‘Yeah, I know what you did with Sammy-Boo, you saucy little wench’, lugging those two big bags in him, was my favourite part of the episode. You have to wonder if this is how they feel on the inside most of the time.

Though, add Sarah Blake to the list of people Sam has slept with who has died. Is there anyone, bar Amelia, left at this stage?? This is why there must be no Wincest, or Sassy or anything involving Sam and a much loved main character!

Strangely though, the Castiel – Metatron thing did nothing for me. Apart from the fact that Dean is going to tear Castiel a new one (or ten new ones) when he finds out (and he will find out), it seemed almost predictable. I dunno, it was almost a case of ‘I’m very, very sorry for doing what I did and I’ll prove it by doing it again’. Maybe angels have slower powers of retention or something like that!

Metatron soooo has designs on the head office!

Leaving Abbadon alone to go and answer their phone was silly. Silly billy boys. Though, in fairness, who’d have expected her to be able to use her own dismembered hands to yank a bullet out of her own head.

Not a bad episode overall, a bit disjointed. I thought it didn’t mesh together all the best but that might be just me.

Thanks for this, Ardeospina.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-09 07:16
just one thing...sam never slept with sara. it was just a kiss goodbye...dean even wanted to go back to ny in dead man's blood for sam..but sam said they had work to do... :sad: as a matter of fact, sam told sara that he didn't want to continue because he liked her...that everyone he loved died and he didn't want her hurt.

that's why i thought her death was so devastating for sam...and since crowley is reading the books, he may know this too.....that killing sara would be an emotional blow to sam, one that might push him enough to quit the trials...becaus e sara was the one person sam didn't sleep with and felt, especially after all these years, that she was safe. crowley....kill ing sara was a low blow...otherwis e not just kill amelia...oh how i wish they had....i mean she's apparently his latest thing so why kill someone from 8 yrs ago that he never slept with? i'd like to believe it's because one, sam actually cared for sara in a way that he never cared about amelia.....and/ or two, that amelia isn't necessarily all that she's cracked up to be...perhaps she is one of crowelys.... :eek:

looks like sam's blood is the purified blood by looks of the promo...but sam said the priest had gone to confession...so my hope is and yes i still have hope, that sam needs to confess too...and i hope this is when he confesses to dean about his year and why he didn't/couldn't look for him.

not sure if metatron is good or bad..but i do kind of like the pairing...i guess i was thinking if metatron sticks around, they would be the secondary story for next year...since the boys wanted a little more time off, it seemed to me to make sense that cas would need others to interact with along with a story that can sort of belong to him, but share with the winchesters...

crowley said his mother was a witch..so crowley is part witch? what's the other half? did his mom have sex with a demon? what's the end result of that?

i think abbadon might be a new problem for awhile.

i watched the eppy twice, and it was better the second time. it just wasn't as good as the last two, which was so full of heart...but this eppy did have it's moments and those i did enjoy. as was stated above, i agree that this eppy was pure set up for next week..

i love that sam is always sticking up for cas even after all that cas has done to sam....it just shows what a huge heart sam really has, and how human he really is, even if he doesn't feel that way.

cas shopping was funny. metatron does add a bit of levity as well...at least for now...

dean's faith in sam is awesome.

crowley...still love him....he's a bastard, but i love him. is that bad?

according to the promo, it does look a bit like a s4 revelation...de an finds out something which is why he tells sam to stop...what i'm curious about it not only what it is, but how does he find out....
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2013-05-09 07:40
Quote:
just one thing...sam never slept with sara. it was just a kiss goodbye...dean even wanted to go back to ny in dead man's blood for sam..but sam said they had work to do... :sad: as a matter of fact, sam told sara that he didn't want to continue because he liked her...that everyone he loved died and he didn't want her hurt.
Hey, we don't know what happened behind closed doors!
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-09 11:16
Quote:
Quote:
just one thing...sam never slept with sara. it was just a kiss goodbye...dean even wanted to go back to ny in dead man's blood for sam..but sam said they had work to do... :sad: as a matter of fact, sam told sara that he didn't want to continue because he liked her...that everyone he loved died and he didn't want her hurt.
Hey, we don't know what happened behind closed doors!
there were no closed doors...sam left..sara was leaning against door...sam knocks...she opens door, he kisses her, in front of dean....dean replies with a grin...that's my boy...and it's over..

i really don't think sam and sara went and had sex while dean sat in the car and waited....i don't believe his mindset had changed about not wanting her to get hurt...but i do believe he liked her enough to kiss her goodbye... :-)
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2013-05-09 11:53
Jeez, I don’t think Dean would sit outside and wait, looking at his watch. Should Sam have decided to stay (and we don't actually know that he left) I’m sure Dean wouldn’t have a issue giving him some time, heading off to a bar or spending a few hours, or a day by himself. He did, after all do it in 'Heartache'.

And hurt by what? I think Sarah was a big enough girl to not expect a relationship from Sam. Perhaps this is what Sam was loathe to get her hurt with.

Hey look, you say they didn’t, I think it’s a possibility. There’s no way of knowing which one of us is right. The episode did end after the kiss, life didn't.
Gwen
# Gwen 2013-05-09 18:19
Quote:


looks like sam's blood is the purified blood by looks of the promo...but sam said the priest had gone to confession...so my hope is and yes i still have hope, that sam needs to confess too...and i hope this is when he confesses to dean about his year and why he didn't/couldn't look for him.
This was my immediate thought as soon as I heard Sam mention that the priest had gone to confession. I don't have much hope left that we'll get Sam talking more about why he didn't/couldn't look for Dean but what little hope I do have was doing excited cartwheels for a while after that scene. :lol:

I didn't mind the episode so much. It was rather underwhelming but I agree it was pure set up for next week.

I do wish it was Dean was doing the angel trials.

I'm going to whisper this quietly and then run to hide but I was never a fan of Sarah so her death didn't bother me. I thought that scene was excellent - powerful stuff. Although I have to say that I thought there was more chemistry between Sam and Sarah in those few scenes in this episode than in all the scenes we've seen between Sam and Amelia.

The highlight for me was Crowley. Mark Shepherd was fabulous.
CyanaT
# CyanaT 2013-05-12 01:24
Quote:
according to the promo, it does look a bit like a s4 revelation...dean finds out something which is why he tells sam to stop...what i'm curious about it not only what it is, but how does he find out....
Metatron put a 'flea in Dean's mind' about whether closing the hellgates was the right thing to do. To my knowledge Dean hasn't told Sam about he and Metatron's chat. Maybe their conversation has something to do with Dean's screaming for Sam to stop. Or maybe Sam's blood isn't pure enough yet to work. Or, "curing" Crowley is killing Sam.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-09 07:44
Hi Tim, excellent thoughts, as always. The first thing that popped in my head when they said " purified "blood, was Sam. The wording couldn't be a coincidence. Well it could, but I don't think so.

If I could have FF'd through Castiel/Metatro n I would have. Didn't enjoy those scenes so much. The content and the lack of chemistry. Metatron is not a compelling character to me.

Abbadon being able to use her own dismembered hand to remove the bullet, right, who could have seen that one coming. :lol:
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-09 11:34
Tim,I could really go with the idea of the manipulation of the past in order to "correct" the future, but I don't it would be God doing because he seems to appreciate free will. But maybe Naomi and her crowd or Crowley with Ion's help might be a better guess. Because he would want the Winchester to still have locked-up Lucifer and Michael but not necessarily a lot of the other wins. So perhaps another Angel faction who wants the apocalypse back on and is trying to figure out the combination to have the boys make different decisions.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-05-09 18:50
Quote:
Though, add Sarah Blake to the list of people Sam has slept with who has died. Is there anyone, bar Amelia, left at this stage?? This is why there must be no Wincest, or Sassy or anything involving Sam and a much loved main character!
The Doctor from Sex and Violence, the prostitute and the hippy chick as well as who knows what other women Soulless!Sam slept with are still alive as far as we know (except for the ones from the spider creature episode). You can say that other than Amelia, no one Sam has been with and cared about has lived.
romachebella
# romachebella 2013-05-09 06:18
I´m a real freshman on SPN, just finished watching all seasons, so forgive me if I´m not up to your expert league.
My thoughts about 8x22 in a nutshell:
we´ve now got several very interesting pairings
+ Naomi/Metatron: Is there a fight or an alliance lurking behind Metatron´s cryptic comments?
+Abbaddon/Crowley: two hot, smart,manipulat ive, overambitious and not to forget evil candidates for the same job? hell of a competition
+Dean/Cas: oh my. I´ll not say anything more *sighs*
But both of their character´s need some upgrading in the roles they play in the finale - but hey, that´s only my very biased opinion
+Sam/ and, who´s there but: Sam. I think he has to fight mostly himself. Not sure if Sara´s death is more motivation or devastation for him. To me the nausea/starving line was an expression of the forces fighting inside him...

The priest: interesting. Dean seems oddly comfortable in telling him everything, even revealing his absolute faith in Sam. Twist on the horizon??? let´s see.
the Nephilim thing: I´m absolutely blank on that one. Will have to get some more sleep first. Stayed up all night to watch the live stream...
Thank you all for the time and energy you put into this. I´ve never followed a show like this before, and I´m overwhelmed by the quality of your comments.
E
# E 2013-05-09 07:09
I agree with most of the other posters about being underwhelmed. It wasn't a terrible episode, and pretty much anything that was any less than epic would have paled in comparison to last week's episode. But I can't help feeling that all the wonderful momentum generated by Mr. Edlund in The Great Escapist came to a grinding halt; all that sensitivity and character insight, gone. Not one thing from that episode was even mentioned in this one as far as character insight goes. It seems we are back to silent, brooding Sam, snarky, mean Dean and clumsy, comic relief Cas. *sigh*. This episode just seemed so disorganized. I am not sure if that was the writing, or the editing or the directing? There were several jump cuts from the action in one pivotal scene to the action in another scene that made no sense at all and was very jarring.

Things that struck me as either head scratching or downright irritating:
1. Sam and Dean leave Abbadon alone in the warehouse to talk to Crowely. Really? REALLY? I HATE IT when the writers made S&D look dumb. Oooooh, she escaped before they could ask her anything. Couldn't see that coming. Grrr.
2. Cas is suddenly clumsy comic relief. He wants to make amends to Dean by buying him porn and pie? Fine. But suddenly he's never seen an egg before? He can't walk down a simple grocery isle without knocking everything over? One of God's warriors? Grrr.
3. Cas is so easily duped by Metatron, even after what he went through with Naomi? I guess he hasn't learned anything from past experience any more than Sam and Dean have. Grrr.
4. They only bring back those characters from past episodes to brutally kill them off? It seemed gratuitously cruel. Poor Jenny Klein only got to appear as a smoking body. And how are the boys supposed to explain Sarah's death and all the crazy markings to her husband and the police? Grrr.
5. I am disappointed that the "angel trials" have seemingly begun and that its falling to Cas to do them. I think that it should have been Dean's job to take on those trials. And why is there no ritual with the angel tablet trials like with the demon tablet? Cas doesn't have to engage each trial and then say the enochian to 'seal' it? He doesn't have to suffer the consequences of cleansing like Sam does? It seems inconsistent. Grrr.
6. I think Metatron may be worse than Naomi.
Scullspeare
# Scullspeare 2013-05-09 09:34
I’m of two minds on this episode; some parts were terrific, others underwhelming.

Quote:
E: Things that struck me as either head scratching or downright irritating:
1. Sam and Dean leave Abbadon alone in the warehouse to talk to Crowely. Really? REALLY? I HATE IT when the writers made S&D look dumb. Oooooh, she escaped before they could ask her anything. Couldn't see that coming. Grrr.
Now this had me throwing a virtual shoe at the TV screen, aimed squarely at Andrew Dabb. Dear writers: Sam and Dean are not dumb, and this was a dumb move, plain and simple. Making the boys look like idiots to set up the next series of events, however cool (and yes, the ‘Thing’ sequence with Abaddon was very cool), weakens the entire episode. Reminds me of Dream a Little Dream of Me when Dean tells Bela no one is getting the Colt, then proceeds to stash it in the hotel room safe in full view of her – knowing she’s a world-class thief. Then they’re surprised when the Colt is stolen. That’s not the Winchesters being dumbasses; that’s the writers.

On the flip side, the penultimate scene of the penultimate episode :lol: , where Sam and Dean are futilely searching for the hex bag to try to save Sarah, was awesome. The tension was palpable and, as much as I like snarky Crowley, I like the dark, threatening Crowley a whole lot more. That whole monologue from Mark Shepherd was insanely good.

And as much as I hated to see Sarah die (and I did) I think she was a perfect choice for Crowley to make his point. Sarah and Sam had some real chemistry, but he never got involved with her because he didn’t want to screw up her life by entangling her further in the hunting world. Years later, she’s happily married, with a child and doing a job she loves – a poster child for the Winchesters’ ‘Saving people’ motto. Crowley’s MO in going after her (and Tommy and Jenny Klein), however insidious, makes complete sense – and her death was a real gut shot to poor Sam. I can see how it would (temporarily at least) weaken his resolve. But Dean is REALLY angry now – and I love me some angry Dean.

And was it just me, or was there more chemistry between Sam and Sarah in their brief scenes here than collectively in the whole Sam-Amelia storyline? Jared was great in these scenes, too; his expressions were a wonderful mix of happiness that she has built the kind of life he can only dream of and sadness that a) it was with someone else and b) hunting (and all things evil) had pulled her from it yet again. And that was all before Crowley killed her.

I’ve read some comments questioning the dark nature of the angel tablet trials but to me, it make sense; if you have to accomplish tasks of great good to close the Gates of Hell (ridding the world of a demonic beast – hellhound; rescuing an innocent from Hell; curing a demon) I suppose acts of great evil could be required to shut down Heaven. Something about Metatron didn’t sit right, though; it’ll be interesting to see where they’re running with this.

Quote:
Ardeospina: Let’s talk about the Nephilim, shall we? Glad she had some power like the antichrist kid did. I want to know who the angel father was, though….

If the waitress was the only nephilim on earth, last night’s use seems like a real waste of incredibly intriguing angelic creatures. On this point, I hope Metatron is lying. As for her father? My money’s on Balthazar; we know he loved his, um, dalliances. (“I was in the middle of a ménage a… What’s French for 12?” :D )
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2013-05-09 15:40
@Scullspeare: Great points you've made there. I totally agree. As soon as the boys left Abaddon my first words were "Where the H** are they going? Don't leave her alone!"Yeah, that hand thing was pretty cool but I still don't like the idea of her being able to pull a devil's trap out of her head. And yes, they should have taken her to their dungeon, especially since everyone went through so much trouble to create that set.

You are right: I'm very disappointed that Cas started the trials witout consulting anyone and only at metatron's say so. (that guy seems shady to me )and that Dean may not get to do them. Of course after next week the Heaven trials may be a moot topic.

Also the reason we didn't see any detrimental affect on Cas is that he may have bungled the first trial. We didn't see him cut out the nephilim's heart after all. If Cas blew the first trial and that was the only Nephilim on earth, then the heaven trials may be officially over. If Naomi gets killed then the trials may be pointless then too.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-09 11:25
I agree with most of the other posters about being underwhelmed. It wasn't a terrible episode, and pretty much anything that was any less than epic would have paled in comparison to last week's episode. But I can't help feeling that 1. Sam and Dean leave Abbadon alone in the warehouse to talk to Crowely. Really? REALLY? I HATE IT when the writers made S&D look dumb. Oooooh, she escaped before they could ask her anything. Couldn't see that coming. Grrr.

you would think the boys would've learned something from caiadb when they tied up the magician.....da mn didn't dabb write that one too? could be mistaken on that....but seriously....i have to agree...sam and dean, if written by ben, would'nt have made such a mistake.
dashnjo
# dashnjo 2013-05-09 12:01
E I agree with a lot of your points, but in line with Metatron possibly being worse than Naomi we don't know if these trials are really for the angel tablet or if they are even trials. Only Metatron knows for sure and if he gleaned enough info from Kevin Tran he would know that Cas wrecked heaven and is feeling guilty about it and could be swayed by an angel who supposedly wants to fix things as well. Cas hasn't had a lot of angels to confide in for a long time, if ever, and is a bit lost so Metatron might be taking advantage of that. Just an idea ...
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-09 07:13
Underwhelmed on the first viewing. But, then again, it would be hard to match or come close to last week's episode. The Metatron/Castie l storyline was off/disjointed; Castiel has been down this road before. But, at least I guessed right a few weeks ago, thinking that Castiel would attempt the Angel Tablet trials.

And, I'm sorry but why do they choose to portray Sam & Dean as complete morons some times? Abbaddon is the strongest demon they ever faced and they chose to (1) put her back together and (2) leave her in a room alone with the rest of her body parts?

Hoping my opinion becomes more favorable when I watch it again.
artsydenise
# artsydenise 2013-05-09 07:39
I'm falling in line w/ your Dark Tower theory, although I've been half convinced this season is all taking place in Sam's head as he's locked up in an asylum somewhere- which is how I can explain to myself the travesty that was Amelia.
Having a reset would conveniently explain all the continuity errors we've seen and actually makes for a more intriguing storyline. As intricately plotted as seasons have gone before, I don't believe simple and glaring continuity errors are accidental. Also, the recurrence of actors from early seasons fits this idea. We know the show likes to play around with alternate universes, so a Dark Tower theory fits. I hope it's true- it would be so much better than the drivel of tablets, trials, blah blah blah - boring!

Last night had awesome moments and some WTF moments: -- Abbadon being left alone? I eye rolled hard at that.
Crowley was awesome.
About time Dean gave Cas a piece of his mind!
Metatron's going to turn out to be a giant douche.
Cas is an idiot for trusting Marvin(sorry, he IS)

I need to rewatch, but overall I liked where it was going, it just didn't feel like it went all the way there. It felt choppy and the end felt like it dropped off- like it just sorta ended.
st50
# st50 2013-05-09 07:49
Underwhelmed is a mild word for how I felt about this episode. So many things just felt wrong. I really wasn't going to comment this morning, but I'm very, very disappointed. Again.

1) Last week, Sam could barely stand. This week, he coughed. Once...And felt pregnant.... I know he said he felt better at the end of last ep, but ....seriously?

2) Dean is mad that Cas ignored them, so Cas goes to buy all his favourite things to make everything better. Obviously their relationship is not maturing, Carver. That seemed to be a bit too much pandering to Destiel, if you ask me.

3)They make a big point out of the fancy new MOL dungeon with the fancy carved manacles, but they bring Abbadon back in a barn? And leave her alone? Since when are these guys that stupid?

4) Crowley's using the SPN books to find people they saved, but Jenny Klein died in S7. Who wrote that one? I thought Chuck was gone. (Edit to correct: JK didn't die in s7, the episode she was in was s7 :oops: )

5) There were times when Cas' voice didn't sound like Cas, in the scenes with Metatron. I know it's hard on MC, but I wondered if he just wasn't quite buying the action, either.... And we're back to jerk angels. Metatron only wants to make a good story starring himself. I saw that one coming... Talk about telegraphing your punches!

6) The big episode finale shows Sam having doubts about everything.... Followed immediately by next weeks promo with Sam's voice saying he thinks they can win this thing. Way to kill any interesting drama to come out of the episode, CW.

So, the acting was grand, but... While Edlund had me back on board, and hoping they could pull out a miracle and save the season, this one has me convinced they aren't really even trying. Can we just have Edlund write them all next year? Or bring back Gamble as writer?

A (very generous) B- from me.
cleverlylemon
# cleverlylemon 2013-05-09 09:24
Yes! I totally said that exact same thing when the boys got to Jenny's apartment. "So Chuck is still writing?? Cause that story is from season seven." Interesting.

I feel like this episode will be a lot stronger when we've seen the next one. But it still made me feel exhausted at the end.
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-05-09 10:09
Quote:
They make a big point out of the fancy new MOL dungeon with the fancy carved manacles, but they bring Abbadon back in a barn? And leave her alone? Since when are these guys that stupid?
Yep, I thought the same exact thing, even yelled it at the tv "Don't leave her alone! What are you thinking?" :lol:
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-05-09 08:19
I would have to say I'm on the same page with the rest of you by feeling underwhelmed with this episode. There were some great moments, but putting it all together...I don't know it feels like there's something missing...

-Dean being mean to Cas..broke my heart. Yes, I know he's hurting but like he said Cas was trying to do the right thing..He always is. But I suppose Cas needs to have a little more faith in the Winchesters
-CAS SHOPPING!!! I thought it was sweet he was trying to make it up to Dean by buying him beer, porn, pie...Still crack up when I picture him threatening the cashier because he needed pie...Reminded me of HH when he was being "bad cop" :lol:
-Cas has a friend!!! Who knows if Metatron is a good angel or has a secret plan and is using Cas? Personally, I think he's good. He's been hiding forever and wanted to stay that way...As he pointed out he is also on the Angels Most Wanted list...I just think it would be nice to have another "good" angel and for Cas to have a friend.
-Nephilim waitress...have to say I didn't see that coming love Metatron's comment about how he should have picked a better looking vessel. Sorry Metatron, but no matter what vessel you pick, Cas will always be the number one angel :lol:
-It was nice to see Metatron try and fight the nephilim and have Castiel's back...at least it distracted her from Cas long enough so he could get the angel blade.
-The films (sorry I'm jumping around) have to say that was odd...."Weird!! !" that's all they say even though the MoL seemed to have recorded everything with great detail..
-Dean believing in Sam...yes these are the brother's I love.
-Abaddon..."The Salesman?" Ha, sorry but he's the King now you've been gone a long time girlfriend! Umm....why are we leaving a Knight of Hell unattended? I know you want to talk to Crowley but seriously guys, bad plan. Abaddon freeing herself with her dismembered hands was pretty funny though..
-Crowley you are one major SOB...Using the books to find all the people the Winchester's have saved (gotta give you credit for that one) and his speech...It gave me chills! "Saving people. Hunting things. The family business." Oh how dare you use Dean's words to taunt them!
-Sarah telling Sam she liked his old hair cut better...Me too Sarah, me too!
-Oh the pain on their faces as they listen to Crowley, desperately trying to find the hex bag only to find it in their phone after (pretty damn clever Crowley, you know they won't look there and hell it's pretty easy to hex someone when you know the hex bag is being brought to them!)and then the look on their faces as Sarah died...
-Sam wanting to quit the trials and give in to Crowley...NO! He's the King of Hell...He'll kill those people anyway just because he feels like it/wants to hurt the boys..Don't you dare give an inch!

So all in all it wasn't a bad episode, I just didn't really care how it was all thrown together....Can 't wait for the finale though!! It's going to be one long summer filled with lots of old episodes (eh who am I kidding...I know I'll watch the whole series all over again, at least once). Ahhh the summer will be the death of me waiting for them to come back!!!
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-09 08:27
Re: the purified blood - in addition to all the other uncomfortable questions this episode raised (which I went through on the other thread)-

If that priest had purified blood, then it must follow that Sam's purification of his blood actually has nothing to do with the Demon blood. Unless, of course, the priest had been marked by Azazel, which I doubt.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-09 10:19
Quote:
Re: the purified blood - in addition to all the other uncomfortable questions this episode raised (which I went through on the other thread)-

If that priest had purified blood, then it must follow that Sam's purification of his blood actually has nothing to do with the Demon blood. Unless, of course, the priest had been marked by Azazel, which I doubt.
Or... the other way to look at this is whether Sam's blood is in fact purified, and will it work to "cure a demon"? They made mention that the priest who performed the curing a demon exorcism had gone to confession; maybe Sam needs to go thru some sort of confession to finish purifying himself?
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-09 11:36
Quote:
Quote:
Re: the purified blood - in addition to all the other uncomfortable questions this episode raised (which I went through on the other thread)-

If that priest had purified blood, then it must follow that Sam's purification of his blood actually has nothing to do with the Demon blood. Unless, of course, the priest had been marked by Azazel, which I doubt.
Or... the other way to look at this is whether Sam's blood is in fact purified, and will it work to "cure a demon"? They made mention that the priest who performed the curing a demon exorcism had gone to confession; maybe Sam needs to go thru some sort of confession to finish purifying himself?
that's what i said too :lol: ..that's why i still, believe it or not, have hope that sam will talk to dean about his year. i've always felt like sam was hiding something from dean....now it's very unlikely that sam would go to confession, but if sam were to come clean and confess what he's been feeling bad about to dean, then that too would be a purification in a way...metaphori cally, as well as his blood being cleaned...which is him being cleansed physically as well.

since carver started the whole drama about sam not looking, i just figured it was he who wanted to set the record straight through his personal storytelling.
Mary Ruh
# Mary Ruh 2013-05-09 08:37
This episode gave me whiplash.
artsydenise
# artsydenise 2013-05-09 08:50
So, can we just start referring to this as the Dark Tower then? Because I like it. :-)

This, plus the 'Sam is broken and it's all happening in his head Theory' would explain the missing year, what he was doing then (he was crazy, that's why he wasn't looking), the weird appearance of Amelia and her cake in the park that looked just like Dean's dream of Lisa, the fact that in one timeline John's dad was alive when he was an adult, reappearance of recurring actors, the Grand Canyon kerfuffle, why the angels who were watching this bloodline, didn't know about the MOL lair, etc, etc, etc.

Remember, time is fluid.

It's like a million tiny breadcrumbs that the writers are laying out and I can't believe they are that incompetent.
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-05-09 14:23
I have been thinking (praying, begging, pleading) since E1 all season that the episodes were taking place in Sam's head and even started writing little synopses of each episode how it would be explained if it were in Sam's head. Then I write it as if it took place in Dean’s head. I don't think it is, but it could be. Episodes could be told far more richly. And - it’s all about perception.
paloma
# paloma 2013-05-09 08:50
Sorry, but I don't like the idea of a magical reset, and nothing until now support the theory.
On the other hand, I know that it is of bad education but...
I said that Sam would want to quit the trials.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-09 10:22
Quote:
Sorry, but I don't like the idea of a magical reset, and nothing until now support the theory.
On the other hand, I know that it is of bad education but...
I said that Sam would want to quit the trials.
I hate magical resets and hope they don't go there. Given what Crowley is doing, and Sam's personality, it is perfectly normal for him to question whether the lives of the people they have saved is worth closing the gates of hell forever. I don't think it'll take much for Dean to convince Sam that Crowley isn't going to stop, regardless of whether they stop the trials or not.
st50
# st50 2013-05-09 10:25
Quote:
Sorry, but I don't like the idea of a magical reset
Me neither. It never works out very satisfactorily. Sorry, Ardeo... please, no Dark Tower for me.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-05-09 18:59
I'll join the group that doesn't like magical resets. I've had enough issues with this season, if suddenly it is all useless, then I will feel like it is a waste.
Alice
# Alice 2013-05-09 09:37
Well, I've had some sleep and an evening to digest it all and...I still didn't like it. I really, really, really think there should be a rule where Andrew Dabb cannot write scripts following an Edlund episode. He miserably fails to run with any momentum Edlund provides. I'm still fuming over "The Girl Next Door" and "There Will Be Blood." Now I can add "Clip Show" to that list of shame.

Not to say that the episode itself was horrible. It would have been a great episode 19 or 20. It failed to live up to the purpose of the episode before a season finale, which is build momentum and get people super excited. I had just finished watching "Arrow," which was a fantastic, well paced, action oriented, team focused episode that ramped up all the events for their "Sacrifice" next week. That's how you do episode 22!

At the end of "Clip Show," I was just bummed out. I certainly wasn't fist pumping going "Hell yeah, bring on next week!!!" like I did with "Arrow." Not even close. I actually felt cheated.

And then I remembered Misha Collins during his panel in NJ talking about how he wished Supernatural would stop killing all the women, because it seems anti-feminist. I didn't really believe that until they killed Sarah. Why? They saved the girl (her name escapes me) in "Trial and Error." I know it was meant for shock value and to get Sam to question his role in the trials, but it came too late in the episode and it sucked.

Man, I really, really hate where I have to tell a writer how to do their job, because honestly if I ever got that chance I could fail miserably too, but if they did have to kill Sarah why not do it earlier in the episode, and then have Sam and Dean move onto next week with renewed determination after licking their wounds to go after that son of a bitch Crowley? Maybe you write a scene where Castiel contacts them and tells them the plan, they're shutting down Heaven too? Some renewed vigor? Excitement for next week?

On the plus side, that whole Metatron/Castie l thing is way off, isn't it? That would have been an awesome side story if it wasn't so inconsistently crammed into an otherwise busy and very ill focused episode. The pacing overall was atrocious.

Now, I did LOVE how Abaddon was appalled that Crowley, "The Salesman," is running Hell. He's not as powerful as a Knight of Hell! Something tells me he's about to be disposed. I like the idea of her taking control of Hell. I can't wait to see how that plays out. I also did love the new reveal of the priest's successful attempt at curing a demon, the Men of Letters vault, and the new dungeon! I'm with Dean, that's really cool.

I swear, we're having a contest during Hellatus. Draw a layout of the entire Men of Letters cave.

There, you kind of just got a preview of my review. Which I'm not writing today. I'm going off to TV For the Rest of Us and will rave about Arrow today. They made the choice too easy over which one I'll review first.
Alice
# Alice 2013-05-09 09:53
Oops, how could I forget the Castiel shopping scene? That was the best scene of the episode, and priceless. "Dude!" :lol:
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-05-09 14:18
Quote:
Oops, how could I forget the Castiel shopping scene? That was the best scene of the episode, and priceless. "Dude!" :lol:
Totally, Dude! Porn, beer and toilet paper. The staples!
JoRuth
# JoRuth 2013-05-09 20:09
Yes!! the Shopping Scene. Loved every second.
st50
# st50 2013-05-09 10:23
Gotta agree, Alice, that last nights Arrow ep was much better for a penultimate episode in the season.
Even though I generally find Arrow has a too much of a 'comic book' feel for my taste, and although it has been inconsistent in quality, too, it's had a better flowing season all round than Supernatural has. IMO.
Ale
# Ale 2013-05-09 12:04
I'm sorry, Alice, I watch Arrow too and I liked last night episode, but my bar for this show is very low. And my bar for Supernatural is very high. So, for me, it's not possible to compare both shows.
Nate
# Nate 2013-05-09 09:57
I agree with Alice and most feedback here, not an episode I wanted to see after last week's Series and Season 8 high. It was a letdown after last week, I really thought the momentum would keep going. It DID have great ideas, I like the idea Crowley is killing people, using the Carver Edlund books (loved the shot of "A Very Supernatural Christmas"), and I did like the scene with Sarah's death, the reveal of the smashed phone. Sarah's death worked for me, I liked the episode gave her and Sam the short conversation catching up. She was a wife and mother, her death "worked" for me. The Men of Letters lair stuff was great too, but "A" and "B" never felt totally connected in the overall feel of the episode. Enjoyed yes, could have been better HELL yes. I am hoping next week's final will blow us all away.
On the anti-feminist comments, Tommy was the first one killed last night. You could count Women 2, Men 1, but I have never thought the show is anti-feminist. I agrue Charlie is one of the best female characters on TV (certainly one of my favorites).
Amy Carl
# Amy Carl 2013-05-09 10:43
First I have to say that the episode didn't do too much for me. I've been behind all season, so when watching this live yesterday I didn't realize the next episode is the season finale. Was surprised to find out because there just seems like too much left to do.

I'm not crazy about the magical reset theory either. I feel like this is very similar to the theory we were all following last year.

I am a major Cas fan, so let me get into all that now. I get that he is still weird from Naomi, I get that he is unsure of himself because Dean is mad at him, but I am pissed that he didn't flash right to the boys when Marv was all "do the demon trials."

Dean just pointed out AGAIN that he is offended that Cas couldn't trust him and that by going on his own he messed up with the Angel tablet. Now Cas is just taking Marv at his word? Cas knows better than anyone that Angels can't be trusted.

Do I think Marv is up to something? Sure. He is playing the "I'm just a pencil pusher" aspect too hard. He is pushing Cas to do the angel trials too suddenly. Marv seemed a little too mad at that girl for being an "abomination." Why not wait till the boys finish the hell trials and see how heaven reacts?

Cas looked at the Angel tablet, though he couldn't read it, I'm sure he could probably memorize some of the symbols. Maybe he should pop over to Kevin and ask him to translate a bit. Why take Marv at his word? Why trust a guy who was nicknamed booger? (I know its been a long time since that film, but he will always be booger in my mind)

Quitting for Crowley. Um, why not just tell him that? You already know what the third trial is, if there is anything after it, I bet Kevin is translating it now. Give Crowley the darn thing and finish them anyways. Yeah, he probably won't stop killing the people, but maybe it will throw him off his game a bit.
maximus3311
# maximus3311 2013-05-09 10:48
I'm with Alice on this one. I'm fairly new to the series (just discovered it early last year) and went through seasons 1-6 pretty fast (avg. 4-5 eps a day after work) so I'm not exactly the cannon expert a lot of you are.

And far be it from me to complain as this show has done a lot for me - and to be honest it's not like I'm going to stop watching no matter what decisions the writers make (well...within reason of course - if they killed off Sam or Dean and brought in Adam to stand in that'd pretty much end it for me) but this season has felt pretty disjointed.

As a more "casual" viewer (haven't been to any cons, don't know cannon by heart) there's something about the show overall that's just felt off. No more rock 'n roll, very little danger to the main characters, lacking that sense of...well I guess you'd call it wonder that the first 5 seasons had.

I think maybe the problem is just show fatigue. At the beginning of the series there was a wide open mysterious universe to explore. First it was just monsters plus these all powerful demons and the long hunt for the yellow eyed one. Then they introduced Lucifer and all the angels. Then the four horsemen. They were pushing forward with new reveals about the nature of the universe.

Now it seems like they're (for the most part) on autopilot. They take old storylines and just keep stretching them thinner and thinner. The Leviathans were a good idea but were terribly written. I picture "evil" in the context of this show as something inhuman and monsterous (to be honest the demon who was cured from last night's show is more in line with what I'd expect - a monster who ate someone's children for the sheer joy of it...I'm also thinking of the main antagonist from the movie Event Horizon - just frighteningly insane) - not sneaky corporate America.

I know a lot of people have been talking about the Dark Tower series (one of my favorites). One of the things I've always loved about Stephen King is that (at least to me) none of his stories seem to be retreads. It's the same thing I loved about the earlier seasons - there was creativity and an exploration of a very interesting universe.

I know a lot of you are hoping for some massive reveal that will explain all the issues this season has had...but to be honest I just don't see it happening. I think if the boys were stuck in some sort of quest time loop (like the Gunslinger in DT) there would have been more hints and clues. I just don't see Sam talking about a "farty donkey" in the Grand Canyon as being much of a clue.

I just think the season finale is merely going to tie up some storylines and leave some cliffhangers for others. I'm not holding my breath for a massive mindblowing reveal.
Nate
# Nate 2013-05-09 14:31
Hi Maximus, welcome to the site. I agree Seasons 6 and 7 were sub-par, but overall still enjoyable. Those seasons had good highs, but some real lows. And not just bad writing, but confusing storylines (I still don't get The Mother and the Alphas), storylines that all but disappeared at times (Leviathans). The Winchester family and friends got smaller and smaller, until everything was lost when Bobby died. But Season 8 has given us Benny, expanded roles for Kevin, Charlie, badass Crowley, and Naomi. The boys discovered they come from the Men of Letters, and have a home, a really KICK-ASS home in the MOL lair. If you read through the episode titles from this season, there were so many enjoyable episodes and story as Dean came back from Purgatory, Sam took a year off, and they have come back together, more mature, stronger maybe than ever. Yes there were some bumps in Season 8, momentum was stopped in the overall arc with some sub-par stand alone episodes, but last week gave us one of the best episodes in the series. Last night's was a huge act to follow, but people here seem to blame last night for destroying what is an awful Season 8. I completely disagree. It was not an awful episode, I just wish it was more face paced, and the interesting ideas presented were done better (writing-wise). Seeing all that has happened this season, I feel the canvas of Season 8 is so much fuller in story and character than Seasons 6 and 7.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-09 16:45
Welcome Maximus,I don't know about anybody else but I guess I'm just praying for a twist or reveal that can bring this season together. But in all honesty, I'm not sure I have any real faith that it's not just as straight forward as it seems. I have to admit after last week my hopes raised quite a bit but I think you're probably right. They would have had to set this up all season. And I one hand I can see lots of little clues or the other, I think I'm just wishing thinking. Because the previews of next week don't look twisty at all.
Nate
# Nate 2013-05-09 16:52
Kelly/ all,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we still don't know who the shadow figure watching Sam was from the opening episode this season, do we? Or was it Don, Amelia's husband?
st50
# st50 2013-05-09 16:55
Apparently it has been suggested (by those attached to the show) that it was Don, but I don't know that it was ever actually addressed on screen, Nate.
Nate
# Nate 2013-05-09 17:06
Hi st50!
I would think the show would have shown us a flashback/Black &White of the shadow figure again and show Don as the figure? I bet it will figure into the final next week, just a guess. If it WAS Don, I totally missed it and it was never mentioned in any review or comments I remember.
st50
# st50 2013-05-09 17:14
Well, I'd agree, Nate, (Hi back, btw), except that there are so MANY things I'd like to see them address in it - With one last episode, and so much going on, I'm not expecting them to address half the issues I'd like to see...
Chris_J
# Chris_J 2013-05-09 11:08
So I guess the angel tablet/closing the gates of Heaven storyline won't be Dean's after all. I thought the writers would try to create some equality in the brothers' roles on the show by having Dean be the one to do the trials to close the gates of heaven, as Sam is the one who did the trials to close the gates of hell.

But I guess not.
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-09 11:46
Well I don't have too much faith left in the current storyline but I can't help feeling that the Angel tablet storyline if left to Castiel is going to be an epic screw-up.

It seems to me that next season might be about untangling the mess (which will probably leave Castiel human). I would say don't give up on Dean having the mytharc next season. Yet.

I only hope that when they do that they remember the basics of the show and how many main characters it ACTUALLY has.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-09 13:34
I'm holding off on my opinion of the season until next week, but I do wish Dean had been the one doing the angels trials.
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-09 13:54
Yes, I don't think I was very clear. I meant that Castiel won't be doing the Angel trials because he will screw them up somehow and Dean will have to take over. It almost seems like the cliffhanger is going to be 'What Castiel Did Wrong' (with the incompetent / malevolent help of Metatron perhaps).
Either that or the Angel trials are going to be completed during the finale ... which seems a little rushed. And next season won't have trials at all.
Either way I think the mytharc (assuming there is one) next season will revolve around Dean while Sam gets used to being purely human again.
But who knows, like you I am waiting till next week to see what happens and I can't think of anything constructive to say about Clip Show, the word that keeps coming to mind is 'buzzkill'.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-09 16:48
eilf, well I could see that being good maybe. I don't know, I'm back to feeling extremely anxious about the season.
BookLady
# BookLady 2013-05-09 13:56
I'm confused.

I thought Castiel said the tablets were not meant for the angles or the demons. And, Metatron said that the trials were all about the choices Dean and his kind make. In other works, free will.

I took that to mean that the tablets were for human beings. They were a fail safe. They were a way to keep warring angels and demons in check. They were a way for the naked apes to wrest control of the planet away from those supernatural beings if they needed to. And, a way for them to use free will.

So why is an angel the one to do the angel trials? Or rather, two angels? I don't get it.

Unless Metatron is not being truthful and leading Cas to decide he can do them when he can't.
Ale
# Ale 2013-05-09 14:30
Or, the one in this episode is not Metatron, it is that horrible Naomi as Metatron trying to manipulate Cas again!
maximus3311
# maximus3311 2013-05-09 12:05
One more thought...not even sure if this is the right forum for it (so feel free to delete or move it) but I got to thinking about what felt so off about Supernatural lately while I was watching last night...and right now I'm totally juiced on way too much caffeine...so here goes:

Part of the appeal of Supernatural to me, as a guy, was the whole "quest/on the road" thing. The Lord of the Rings wouldn't have been nearly nearly as interesting if Frodo had stayed in Rivendell and searched the archives for a way to destroy the One Ring while periodically leaving to fight Sauron's forces. The Dark Tower series wouldn't have worked if Roland had stayed in Gilead. And to be honest I don't think Supernatural works with the boys in the MOL stronghold.

Time was (yes I sound old) the boys were on the road in the Impala (and since I'm a car guy Metallicar was one of the main characters). They would drive from town to town chasing Supernatural monsters while at the same time following a greater story arc that made it more than just a monster of the week thing. As a guy I *loved* this! Two brothers, on the road in a muscle car, listening to rock n' roll, fighting things out of people's nightmares while fighting an even greater evil.

To me (again - as a guy) this show has almost turned into a soap opera. Oh don't get me wrong, I still love the hell out of it and am still going to watch it every week (and now that I've discovered this awesome site be here pretty much daily)...but it seems like the sense of adventure is gone. Having a "home" = way too much security and a sense of safety. The evil the boys are fighting, while still interesting (love Mark Sheppard in everything I've ever seen him in) doesn't have the same menace or mystery that the yellow eyed demon or Lilith had. While we may think he's a SOB we can understand his motivations. And moreover, he somehow doesn't seem to be all that much more powerful than the boys. Remember Death and how scared Dean was of him? He had power. The King of Hell seems to lack that.

Now I don't want to turn into one of those fans who gripe...but it just seems like the menace of the old adversaries and the sense of wonder and adventure is gone. Sauron wouldn't have been nearly as menacing if he was just another competing force who made snarky (albeit clever) remarks. He was *evil*. And I guess I sort of feel like the king of hell should be at least as bad. An incredibly clever but inhumanly monstrous force.

As for the sense of wonder being gone...pardon my extreme geekiness but I think a line from Hellboy 2 sums it up the best: "Demon! What are you waiting for? This is what you want, isn't it? Look at it. The last of its kind, like you and I. If you destroy it, the world will never see its kind again..."

Sadly I sort of feel the same way about Supernatural as currently written. The past (especially seasons 3-5) were amazing...and we may never see something like that in our show again.
Michele Hughes
# Michele Hughes 2013-05-09 13:34
Maximus, I’m female, and not terribly interested in cars, however, I too miss the days of Dean and Sam driving around America to a soundtrack of classic rock, hunting things and saving people, and being brothers. Unlike you, for me the heyday of this was S1-3. I felt that S4 damaged the relationship between the brothers and the writers never fixed things again. I know the brotherly vibe is back somewhat in S8 but it sort of feels tacked on to me and a little like it came out of nowhere, given how little there was of it in previous seasons and how Sam didn’t look for Dean when Dean was in Purgatory. Anyhoo, that’s an old gripe of mine and I shan’t start ranting about it here ;)

What I also wanted to say was that I too feel that SPN has gone a bit into soap opera territory with plots in S8. I also fervently wish that the writers would give up on the idea that Sam has re-developed a strong wish for a normal life and that Dean has developed a strong desire to make sure Sam has this normal life - in past seasons I always admired Sam for coming to the realisation that he does good as a hunter and that he loves being with his brother, and therefore, decides to keep going in the Winchester tradition. I always admired Dean for his steadfast adherence to wanting to help people in need by hunting and making the world a safer place. I could understand Dean’s lack of desire to live a normal life and I could easily understand Dean’s wish to keep his brother with him on the road and in the fight against evil, nowadays in S8, I find it strange that Dean wants to make sure that Sam lives a normal life.

I just feel that, at the moment, the essence of the Winchester brothers (as well as Crowley and Castiel) is being diluted somewhat by the style of writing that’s now happening. I’m not getting a sense of gravitas from SPN like I used to get from past seasons. I don’t feel confident in the writers’ ability to pull off convincing and consistent characterisatio n, consistent plotting, ensuring plot continuity, or consistent story arcs. I think lack of consistency is my main gripe with S8: the characters and plots aren’t coming across as consistent with relation to backstory or with relation to parts of the season itself.

Anyway, I’m slightly brain dead today and unable to put words to exactly how I’m feeling, so I’ll finish this post now and say welcome to WFB :D
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-05-09 14:13
Welcome, Maximus! I'm female, my first car was a muscle car. I adored it. I agree with what you said. Driving from town to town fighting monsters with a brother at your back was the best. The problem was, it wasn't sustainable. They could only do that for so long before they would be fighting dust bunnies. :) And I loved the soundtrack. What happened? Why can't we have our music?

I also agree the show has turned soap opera-ish. I don't like that about it. I want my boys to be BAMF. I think we all have our favorite seasons, but very few of us pick 6-7!

I was let-down by last night's ep. After BE's ep, I sure did expect more for this week. I'm still kind of down today. Waaa.

I think S8 should have/could have been written with a lot more thought with what happened in past episodes and seasons. How the characters felt, spoke and acted. I don't believe growing up or maturing means becoming different, OOC, even thoughtlessly (or perhaps purposely) mean. As written, both Sam and Dean are guilty of that. That is not maturing.

So, as a female to a guy, I think you are right on target. As me, I love SPN enough that it is the only show I watch. I started S1E1 and I will never give up. There are times I wish it had gone different directions, but I continue to love it.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-09 22:15
Hey l2b, I agree with everything you said here!! I am pretty sure I have heard a time or two that the music royalties for those classic rock songs were getting a little hard on the budget.

Dust bunnies can be quite horrifying if left to multiply!!! :-)
Bevie
# Bevie 2013-05-09 15:00
I can't make coherent comments, as I'm too upset that they killed my most favourite female from one of my most favourite seasons. This will kill my enjoyment of rewatching the original episode. I loved Sarah and really hoped she and Sam could get together in the future. Beautiful, brave, funny, understanding, Dean approved and attracted to Sammy to boot! I even cried more for her than I did for Bobby and I love Bobby to bits! Don't really care now what happens next!

Yes, I was pissed off, and didn't hear one word of Crowley's monologue as I was sobbing too loudly.
Ale
# Ale 2013-05-09 15:35
I was crushed by this scene too. I was a total wreck in the end. It was an emotional punch, and I think it worked so well because I loved Sara so much, although she appeared just once, and in S01. I agree with you, she was perfect to Sam. This scene would NEVER work with Amelia. We would be rooting for Crowley, not otherwise.

IMO, this scene was brilliantly done.
PENNY JAIME
# PENNY JAIME 2013-05-09 15:16
Well, I think the reason people keep being disappointed is that they are reading things into the episodes that just aren't there. Then when nothing happens, they are let down. I try to guess what happens next; but I never EXPECT anything. I just let it unfold on it's own. I am usually pretty happy at what I see every week. This week was no different. I was on the edge of my seat the whole hour. I was definitely left wanting more at the end of the hour as well. Actually, for the 1st time in 8 seasons I guessed something right-what curing a demon meant. My son guessed it would be Crowley. I can hardly wait until next week!!!!!
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-09 16:34
i think it had to do with eppy placement as well. andrew dabb has gotten better but he's not quite there yet. this eppy wasn't a bad eppy in and of itself...it just was an eppy that i feel that should have preceded robbie thompson's and ben edlund's, not followed them...

personally, my opinion is that the ending eps should be written by thompson, edlund and carver...since sera is gone...i just don't think dabb or any other writer has merited getting the number 22 spot...it was just anticlimatic...

i know it was a set up eppy, but if you are assigned the task of doing the set up eppy, then you really need to put a little more heart and emotion in it...and a little more excitement....

jmo of course..

again, it's not that i didn't like the eppy, i did...but i totally felt deflated when it was over instead of that high i had been feeling the last two weeks..

like i said, bad placement....
st50
# st50 2013-05-09 16:46
Quote:
Well, I think the reason people keep being disappointed is that they are reading things into the episodes that just aren't there.
I'm sure that's quite true, Penny Jaime. But perhaps the reason people are reading things into the episodes is that what IS there is simply not resonating with them. It just isn't working.

I'm glad you are enjoying the season. Personally, I find it the worst season yet.
But we're all entitled to our own opinions.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-09 19:54
Penny Jaime, I know I'm one that been reading a lot into things. For 2 reasons 1. For the 2 seasons (4 and 6) there was a big reveal that explained everything pretty much and made me squeal with excitement once it had been revealed. (and I think that was their intention in S7 but it didn't work all that well). So when Sam did the completely OOC move of not looking, I assumed there was something up. When they had him saying all these little things about living in a dream. Hints about suicide attempt maybe in another. My point is I honestly felt like the were telling us something more was up, like they had in previous seasons. In fact I felt we had more hints this season than we had S4 before the reveal. But secondly as st50 said it is because the season is just not working for me at all, especially the non-explanation of Sam not-looking(I still can't believe hints and 1 line are all we ever going to get). So I'll admit I keep grasping onto any good theory in hopes it'll save the season for me.
PENNY JAIME
# PENNY JAIME 2013-05-09 22:46
Well, it seems to bother a lot of people that they didn't give a story line to Sam not looking for Dean. For that reason, it would be great if they did. If not, then he just didn't look. Was it a "dick" move on his part (if that is the case), YES! But-after the mental breakdown he had not to long before that, I can live with it. Personally, I never saw anything Sam said, or did, that insinuated that he tried to commit suicide.I could be totally off base here though.

I hope you all like the last episode.
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-05-10 08:02
Quote:
When they had him saying all these little things about living in a dream. Hints about suicide attempt maybe in another.
I'm a little confused...when did he attempt to commit suicide??
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-10 10:49
LoveMyCas87, sorry that was written badly and looking back perhaps it was all in my mind, but in Heartache, he was talking about Brick's suicide and several people got the impression that maybe we were getting a hint of what happened to him.

Penny Jaime, if that is not the case that. If there were never any hints than honestly that's worse. Because that means that they never gave us ANY explanation, beyond 3 words said to Amelia, as to why Sam didn't look. So were left with as you say a "dick move" that is more damaging to his character IMO than drinking DB. That I understood.

Somewhere in this post Nappi talked about the real problem being lack of POV and I agree. If Sam had defended himself, gave us the in depth reasons why than I don't think many of us would have had a problem with it. But his only defense in SC was that Dean had kept a Benny a secret and that Dean needed to let it go. Now it may still happen in the last episode, but I hope with the explanation there is a reason why we weren't told in the first episode. And so instead got 10 episode of Sam basically being called a dick.
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-05-10 01:26
Quote:
I was on the edge of my seat the whole hour.
I was too, Penny Jaime. Was it as brilliant as the Ben Edlund episode? No, but that's a hard act to follow and I wasn't expecting it to be. Did it give us a great set-up for the final episode? In my opinion it definitely did. And it was full of tension, heartbreaking emotions and incredible performances. My expectations were fulfilled ;-)
Pduke216
# Pduke216 2013-05-09 15:32
I wonder if the bullet will come into play next week. I think that is how they trap Crowley.

I hope it isnt a time reset either but I hope Sam comes clean and tells Dean everything.
supernew
# supernew 2013-05-09 16:53
This season has reminded me of the Dragonlance Test of the Twins series of books where the weaker, smart, mage brother almost takes the place of the evil god. I was underwhelmed like most others. What really distracted me from the emotions and story was the stupidity of the brothers - leaving Abaddon alone without the usual precautions right after they discover their very own torture chamber with spellwork chains and devilstrap? And expecting a demon attack at the end? They didn't even test her to see if she was possessed. Once they figured it was witchcraft why not call Castiel? He was desperate to make amends and he has found hexbags in walls, etc. in the past. I didn't understand what Dean was talking about in his speech to the priest - what has Sam done that Dean didn't think was possible? They've both been in and out of hell and pergatory, both carried souls out in their bodies. Even Sarah's speech to Sam - he seems more focussed? In real life she would have said he looked like cr-p. I'm rooting for the writers, I hope they pull a twist next week that re-casts the whole season for us yet.

I loved Cas' shopping scene. If you haven't watched Misha's YouTube videos of shopping with his son West you should. I think I'm ok with the dead nephalim. If I remember correctly the great flood in the bible was to wipe out the nephalim. If anything I suspect that nephalim might be Crawley's and Naomi's child.

One theory - I think Dean will stop Sam from finishing the trials. Either the trial is turning Sam into Cerberus (guardian of the gate of hell) or Sam putting Winchester blood into Crowley will give Crowley some power that would be devastating. Or it could free Lucifer - remember Lucifer picked Abaddon to be a knight, and heaven is in chaos without an archangel. I wonder if a jailbreak is in the works for Michael and Lucifer next year.

On Metatron being an archangel or a scribe. I think the line was that Metatron was just a lowly secretary until God picked him as a scribe. I suspect God could have promoted him to archangel status. In some religions Metatron is the most powerful angel - if he knows the word and the others don't that would make him powerful.
Ale
# Ale 2013-05-09 18:31
They have poisened Sam with demon blood in order to make him open the gates of hellm, lead an army of demons and destroy the world. It would be awesome if Sam's purified blood be fed to a demon in order to shut the gates of Hell forever and save the world from demons.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-05-09 19:27
I seem to be in tune with most of this board because this episode left me cold. Oh I mourn Sarah and I hate with the passion of a thousand burning suns that they killed her, but the episode was all over the place. Sam and Dean being incompetent with Abbadon made me nuts, especially because a 15 second scene could have shown the hand scratching a break in the devil's trap on the floor and THEN had the hand dig out the bullet. Cas being a comic relief not smart angel has always bugged the heck out of me. Balthazar left heaven after Cas's rebellion and trip to angel camp and Balthazar understood humans just fine. Cas has been working with Sam and Dean for years, live one year as Emanuel as a human, can access the memories of Jimmy Novak and doesn't know how to pick up an egg or to not knock over a case in a store.

Quote:
Ooh, Naomi isn’t running things in heaven like she said she was.
Cynical old me says that Metatron SAYS that Naomi isn't running things in heaven like she said she was. Last week Metatron said he wrote the tablets then got the hell out of Dodge and was so removed from heaven that he had no idea about Sam and Dean stopping the Apocalypse and caging Michael and Lucifer. This week he knows all about the various factions in heaven and how they are fighting. Plus, we have been told by Cas that everyone believes Metatron wrote the tablets. Metatron SAYS he did it by taking dictation from God, but God is conveniently AWOL, so who knows if they are the word of God, or simply something Metatron wrote for grins and giggles.

This episode didn't tick me off, it did worse. I left me not caring about how the season will end. I hope Sam isn't ONCE AGAIN completely totally in the wrong for doing the trials. I hope that we aren't left with one more chorus of is Sam 100% Sam or did the trials turn Sam into something Dean has to destroy. But I have no confidence in the writers. As to the rest, close the gates of hell and heaven, don't close the Gates of Hell or Heaven. I really don't care a lot. I'm just not invested.

As for a reset, or an explanation for why Sam didn't look for Dean last year, it's pretty well hitting too late for me. Yes, the continuity errors may be pointers to how this will shake out, but really too much has been problematic for me to find it satisfactory. Sam has been branded for an entire year as the brother who never looked for Dean and a sudden turn around in the last episode won't erase the impression. Frankly, Supernatural is going up against So You Think You Can Dance next Wednesday, and I'll probably watch SYTYCD live and DVR Supernatural and catch it some time later. A few years ago that would not have been a consideration.

On the good side, final ratings came out and Supernatural beat Arrow in the demographics, so lots of people are enjoying and watching this season. I'm glad for them and I'm glad for the cast and crew that the little show that could is still chugging along.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-09 20:02
Quote:
Cynical old me says that Metatron SAYS that Naomi isn't running things in heaven like she said she was. Last week Metatron said he wrote the tablets then got the hell out of Dodge and was so removed from heaven that he had no idea about Sam and Dean stopping the Apocalypse and caging Michael and Lucifer. This week he knows all about the various factions in heaven and how they are fighting.
That was an issue I had too. Like, wth?
It felt out-of-left field. And Cas just believing Metatron blindly shows absolutely zero character development for the angel. Which makes me flustered. And the insinuation that Cas would be closing the gates of Heaven was a little insulting, as I think we all assumed that would fall to Dean. (It still could, I'm not throwing my eggs in any baskets and getting worked up ahead of time unnecessarily - but it did raise my hackles a bit). And it's a shame, because - I do like Cas. I'm excited about his role in S9 - but not if that's it. Not if Sam and Dean are going to be relegated to taking care of Cas while jumps through the angel tablet hoops. Anywho - enough of that.

I know we stand at different points re: Sam's characterizatio n/portrayal this season, so I won't get into that except to say that I also hope against hope that Sam can put the trials in the "win" column for once, that there won't be another 'almost accidentally destroying the world' thing. I really don't think that is where they're headed - but my faith hasn't been raked over the coals this season the way others' have.

The killing of Sarah - I actually thought that was superbly done, precisely because of the rage it generated. The hex bag hidden in the phone, found moments after her death, Crowley talking about taking away the one thing that allows the Winchesters to keep functioning in spite of the horrors of their lives - saving people, hunting things - just excellently played, IMO. It felt horrible and demoralizing, and that was exactly the effect that was intended. I think the episode left us in this state, on a low note, on purpose, setting us up for a win next week. Or at least a partial win (in SPN there are only ever partial wins, it seems).

Here's hopin'. :P
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-09 20:27
Quote:

The killing of Sarah - I actually thought that was superbly done, precisely because of the rage it generated. The hex bag hidden in the phone, found moments after her death, Crowley talking about taking away the one thing that allows the Winchesters to keep functioning in spite of the horrors of their lives - saving people, hunting things - just excellently played, IMO. It felt horrible and demoralizing, and that was exactly the effect that was intended. I think the episode left us in this state, on a low note, on purpose, setting us up for a win next week. Or at least a partial win (in SPN there are only ever partial wins, it seems).
I agree with you on all this Bamboo, I am really really sad that they killed Sarah - partly for Sam's sake (ok, mostly for Sam's sake), partly because she was a feisty female character and we have none left pretty much and partly because she had a nice life and a baby and was happy. Congrats, Show, you made me cry!

But it was really well done, we can't say that we didn't see it coming and also it wasn't a throwaway death. It was so necessary to give Sam a believable reason for wanting to quit, both guys a REALLY good reason to see that Crowley has to go and, as you say, was such a downer that anything that happens next week has to be better (it has to be better yes?).

Oh and the hex bag coming out of the broken phone!

But really guys, some first aid? You know, occasionally! People can be resuscitated sometimes but you NEVER try! YOU come back from being dead often enough.

I hope next week manages whatever it is that they are trying to do with this season, because even at this late stage I don't quite know what that was.

Actually there is one more female character that we are due to see next week and you have to assume she is the next victim Crowley has his eye on. They had better not kill her off, seriously, to be left with Charlie as the only type of woman (geek computer hacker with endless pop culture quips) allowed to remain on the show is pretty annoying. Can we not have one, or even a pair, of women hunters or something?

Edit to clarify: 'Women who are hunters' not 'hunters of women' :D
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-09 22:34
Excellently put, Bamboo24. That scene was extremely well done. Acted, directed written. I think that scene did exactly what it was intended to do for me. I just wish the rest of the episode lived up to that scene. Or to last week's episode.

They made cry too, elif, for all the reasons you listed. I REALLY didn't want her to die. I kinda hate that she died but thought the way they did it was incredible.

And I swear if they kill off THAT guest I will be really pissed.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-09 22:41
I agree with you both on the THAT guest. If they bring her back just to snuff her I will be very upset. Not just pissed but royally pissed.
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-09 22:48
You should have seen her twitter timeline last night :D Very funny how freaked everyone was tweeting her, and her responses were even better!
Gwen
# Gwen 2013-05-10 02:51
I agree with you all regarding THAT guest.

I wasn't bothered about Sarah's death and my only thoughts on that was that it was a superb scene and a necessary one to get the boys to the point they are going into the finale. BUT if anything bad happens to THAT guest then I will be extremely pissed off.
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-05-09 21:05
So after re-watching the episode a couple times, my opinion changed but not much...at first I was very underwhelmed and it felt all over the place...after the third time watching it, I decided it was a little more put together.
I would have to say Mark Sheppard was just awesome. He literally gave me chills. That whole scene was played beautifully. He kills Sarah, who is the first person Sam started to care about after Jess and he let her go so she could be safe...We find out she's married and has a baby..She had a great life despite what happened to her in S1...Then we have to slowly watch her die as Sam and Dean are frantically searching for the hex bag, all the while Crowley is giving his speech....Not only did he kill someone they saved right in front of them, but he completely ruined them at the same moment...He got right to the heart of it, that the only way they can get through it is knowing that those people they saved were out there...That the drinking and screwing up and lying and everything was okay because at the end of the day, they were heroes....He threatened to take it all away...ooh I wanted to punch him! Dean's face was heartbreaking and watching Sam, watching Sarah die...his face broke my heart too.. Anyway, I think THIS was one of my favorite Crowley moments of all time.
Metatron and Cas...well I suppose the first time I saw it, I really wanted Cas to have a friend so I may have over looked a few comments. Now, I just think he's up to no good. Why need Kevin if Metatron is there?? I know he's an angel, but he seemed to catch up pretty damn quick from last week when he didn't even know about the archangels. The thing with the nephilim was odd also....why introduce such an important character, only to kill her off in her second scene?? If she was truly the only one, she could have been valuable in a lot of ways. And who is her father??? Balthazar? Gabriel? Or some angel we have never heard of??? I don't know, seems like that could have been explored a bit more...Especial ly since it was forbidden and that was why God made the flood in the time of Noah..sorry, turned more into a rant than I meant to.
But anyway! I think watching it more improved my opinion and it felt like a better set up to next week than I originally thought.
I wish the finale would be two hours..that would be sweet...sigh..I can only dream..
Alex3
# Alex3 2013-05-09 22:11
I just think SPN need to work on their pacing big time. They may have been a few epis that could of worked better if it didn't come behind a filler. You build momentum in kill it. I honestly hated they killed Sera, but if this had to happen she should of died around mid season finale to set the tone to go after Crowley big time.


They give us all the wacky in then cram in 3 episodes full of information. Carver may had a better vision but we not going to see it if it's written by 3 year olds.
sharon pence
# sharon pence 2013-05-09 22:50
Well I swear I am not supposed to post, we live in the boonies and have some kind of dreck for internet and I'll be typing then WTH it's gone dropped I will try again'
Well that was weird with 3 exclamation points!!! (thanks Dean) is what I thought on first watch but after downloading and watching it straight thru it was much more interesting and gripping.I believe the commercials breaks on the CW seem to be excessive and so long I count 5 or 6 in the breaks and they always seem to come at a critical point in an episode. I understand the reason for so many they are not on a HBO budget. I just think they could place them better and it would help with the flow and not take us out of the moment.
Since I referenced HBO talking about the bitch word excetera on SPN. They cannot do nudity (wouldn't want it or say the F word which they can get away with on cable.
So they use what they can to get some points across or add a certain tenure. I have always laughed at the innuendoes they come up with and get away with especially Dean I have a bit of a gutter mind having hung around pilots and military all my life and believe me they can get very raunchy you have no idea. So most of it rolls off me .
Back to the episode I loved the old film stuff and the priest demon cleansing and thought the actor who played the demon was amazing and the whole thing was very creepy.
A thought has crossed my mind and I know it is bizarre and will not happen wishful thinking for a really BAMF Dean.
They play with allusions all season, now they bring in a torture dungeon and Dean grins. They are going back into the past in season 4 "how sure are you that what you have brought back is all Dean or something like that can't remember the line exactly. What if there is something in Dean just waiting and watching for the right moment to make an appearance. I know I'm in the middle of a fantasy but it would be better than being the chef all the time., which I actually find endearing. I guess the whoe thing about Dean is he is the anchor the humanity in it all.
I also wonder if Jermey Carter wrote the final episode at the startof the season or during hiatus last year and everything else and the writer's have been working to and around bringing us to that point. If the last episode does not bloware socks off I will be hugely disapointed. I have not minded this season I have watched several episodes over and over. I do prefer MOTW and those arcs ones that you could watch and not have to ask what is going on. Maybe the majority of viewers do why they have so many off them , I will say to the average viewer who does not know the show history the MOTW this year would mean nothing but to me this year they have all had important messages about the story arc. Hunter heroica especially the Dean possessed one and Heart for example. I believe they are also building characters for the next couple of years some will stick and others won't also alot depends on the availability of the actors. Abbadon will be recurring and hopefully Dean and Sam's little sister, maybe Garth who seems to be missing in action or maybe they know we can only take a little of him at a time. I hope they don't bring Krissy back no love there but they probably will.
I don't know what to think of the guy playing Metradon people call him Booger I will have to go back and rewatch that movie but that figure of speech kind of sticks with me so I have not quite bought into him.
Love me some Cas but really Dean has taken so much and he loves loyalty above all else and Cas does it again , the least he can do is buy Dean some groceries and a little pron. Sorry for the long long post I feel better now.
sharon pence
# sharon pence 2013-05-09 22:55
Boy my spelling and punctuation sucks and it is porn not pron I was in a hurry not to loose the whole thing again.
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-09 23:01
On the internet it's 'pr0n' - you are right (even if by accident) :D
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-05-10 00:03
I loved this episode! Far from feeling underwhelmed, I was in total shock at the end of it... the whole 40 minutes was edge-of-seat, nail-biting stuff. If there were any problems, for me, they were minor. This is the perfect set-up for a ripper finale.

Crowley was so awesome that I truly hate him now; because of the way he put a dagger into Sam's heart (yet again) :cry:

I can't wait to watch Crowley's monologue again, because I'm sure I missed a lot of it. I was too much in panic mode, along with Sam and Dean, screaming at the TV to save Sarah. It was so heartbreaking that I was sobbing. Not many shows can make me feel like Supernatural does.

The performances by everyone were top-notch... and particularly by Jared, who's giving everything in these last few episodes.

I don't care if I'm in the minority, but I truly love what Jeremy Carver has done this season. There's so much potential for season 9 and beyond. And I cannot wait to see what he has written for the final episode. Bring it on :-)
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-10 07:28
i don't think it's just been about sam not looking for dean for all the fandom...i totally understood how that came to be and i had no problem with it and it doesn't negate the fact that sam loves and would die for his brother time and time again, which he's done. my only problem with the first half of the season is sam's lack of a voice. dean berated him for like 8 out of ten episodes, digging at sam for his choice. he made the assumption that sam didn't look because of a girl, when we all were told by sam that it took a few months before he even hit riot, so sam imploded and ran before amelia entered the picture...but all that got glossed over....given dean's anger and resentment in sc, i expected sam to in some way defend himself....he yelled at dean about not needing the coin to say what he did, but he never got to give his pov...we all still don't really know what it was like for him...we've been pretty much speculating based on the past and what we all know of sam... i just want sam's pov...it was a major issue that got swept under the rug and i think this is one time when that cannot happen...it's too important and it leaves the first half of the season a onesided story based only on dean's misperception.


that being said......

i'm not counting an explanation out yet.... for one, carver said in his last interview that this was a topic that would be addressed in one way or another...he specifically stated that noone would be left on the sidelines....

and.....

sam made it a point that the priest had to confess in order to cure the demon. now currently sam's blood is being purified by the trials.....i am a bit hopeful that sam will have to confess as well.....that that will part of his purification process.

the blood purification is physical, but a confession may be a metaphorical way to become pure so that sam can complete the trial....at least that's my take on it.

i've always felt that sam was hiding something from dean...that there was more to sam not looking than what little he's gotten the chance to say... it's my hope that sam will confess to dean what i feel he's been holding back...that in essence will "purify" him.

now i say this because of our guest on next week. this particular individual, who we have not seen since a certain cool eppy back in s7, leads me to believe that's it's possible that we may get to hear from sam...since our clips are usually the first few minutes of the eppy, by the looks of the promo, it just seems like crowley won't be killing any more of the people the boys saved....at least that's my hope.

i also feel that since carver was the one who created the whole debacle of a storyline that was the first half of this season, he'd want to be the one to finally clear the air...to bring the story full circle so that it all comes together..

that's my take on it and i believe i'll hold onto that....

jared is knocking it out of the park...the boy can literally turn crap into gold...not that this eppy was crap...just in general, he can turn crap into gold.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-11 00:08
nappi, I had another idea. What if it was from Sam we learned what happened to him,

Spoiler but from Crowley when the are purifying him or whatever.The one demon screamed out the he had eaten the kids, what if Crowley starts telling them that he sent the dog in front of Sam and Ion wiped his memory?
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-11 08:00
Quote:
nappi, I had another idea. What if it was from Sam we learned what happened to him,

Spoiler but from Crowley when the are purifying him or whatever.The one demon screamed out the he had eaten the kids, what if Crowley starts telling them that he sent the dog in front of Sam and Ion wiped his memory?
sweetie, i'll take it any way i can get it. :lol: actually i don't think that's far off base. as i recall and you can correct me if i'm wrong, carver indicated in the interview that this was still an open wound to be explored, noone would be left on the sidelines and i do believe he wrote that it can come up in unexpected ways.

i think a confession out of crowley during the purification process would be most unexpected, especially to sam and dean.

just to go over what we already know of our beloved king of hell...

he's the son of a witch and we've learned from that witch eppy that they can manipulate thoughts.

crowley has been scrubbing kevin's short term memory...don't see why he wouldn't do it to sam.

crowley did claim that he was born to direct...as if he's been running the show all along.

crowley seems to have his tentacles everywhere. it's kind of been insinuated a few times that crowley may be more than he seems.

crowley had everything to gain by keeping sam out of the hunt. (killing sam was never an option...can't kill jared off)..

lots of mentions of dogs....crowley i'm sure had more than one, although i think his personal fave was killed by sam...but crowley is the son of a witch and witches have familiars.....w hat if crowley doesn't only have hellhounds...wh at if, as part witch, which i believe he would be since his mother was one, he has his own familiar?

all i know is, i'm not giving up hope that we'll at least get resolution to this issue....carver made sure to address it in the interview and it seemed to me after reading it, i felt better that he knows we're all having issues with it and he said it would be addressed...in one way or another....

so positivity still in tact. ;-)
Amyh
# Amyh 2013-05-10 11:07
First I want tyo say that it really felt like the writers had planned for Ameila to be in Sarah's role..getting killed...a planned symmetry of Lisa/ben only she dies. BUT the charector was a failure....in writing, in acting, in chemistry with Jared. Add in the fact that Dean never met her; never thought of her as a real person. There would be absoolutely no0 emotional connection. Hell. Sam himself had chosen Dean and hunting pretty easily over Amiela. Half the fandom didn't like her and wouldn't care if she died.

Thw writers needed someone who both brothers liked and/or knew, the audience was connected with. Of coursze it had to be Sarah. Sarah.. "Im afraid as hell but I'm not gonna run away" Sarah. I will say her talk with Sam did feel like something that would come from Ameila.....Sam she knew was lost, broken so the dialogue that Sarah spoke off...beign differnt, having more confiendce and knowing his path would have felt right coming from Amiela. Too bad Liane B and the writers failed the charector.

Castiel. Kicked puppy Cas was licking Deans boots. Then he ran off to metranon the moment he showed Cas some attention. Uhhhhh. Honestly? Dean adn Cas truely acted like they were havong a lovers spat. One Sam stayed the heck out of, though even his "its cas" line just seemed to add the lovers spat fuel.

BVut then Cas complaining that "Sam gets to go and he's more damaged then me" lines... It goes from lovers spat to petrulant child in 3 seconds. Isn't Sam supposed to be a lead? Not just the good kid Dean is taking out for ice cream while the bad kid is left behind to sulk?

Deans speech about Sam to the priest felt more like a set up for Sam's feelings of defeat after Sarahs death and Deans "Are you with me or against me?" speech. Does Dean understand that things affect other people and they feel deeply about them? why is everything and anything anyone does boiled down the basest level of weather Dean sees it as loyalty or betrayal?

I wish Dean had assuumed the Angel trials. Dean has never truely known real defeat...the doing what he felt in his heart and soul to be the right thing only for it to be wrong. For it all to blow up in his face. Dean just has no basis to empathise with Sam and Castiel. he also wants them too exorcise their free will...but only when it suits or goes alone with Deas Free will.

I didn't find Cas' shopping trip funny. As a convenience store worked I saw Cas' selfish disregard and sloppiness as dispicable. Though truue to life. And threatening the clerks life for some stupid pie? Horrible. The clerk propbely went from frusterated by Cas's mess to worried the guy was eithher drunk or high and afraid for his life. As someone who has been been in that exact position ...just without the physical part of it....it wasn't funny. At. All.

People have been shot and killed or maimed for less.

As to the Dark tower theory...ive already read the fanfictions.... and those writers have done a better job. And they didn't have to sacrifice Sam integrity for the plot to work.
paloma
# paloma 2013-05-10 13:36
Amyh, you have seen the problem. In general they gave Dean always all the reason, and both Cas and Sam have treat him like crap. They throw a bomb and after they expect that Dean will clean the mess and he is fed up, I will be too.
Do you think that Dean hasn't feelings? Because he is the one wanting to save everybody human. Stopping the trials now, it doesn't serve for nothing, Dean know it and he want Sam know it too. Sam has the bad habit to run when there is something that he doesn't like it.
Many of you want to kill me for this, but the southern comfort scene when he tell Amelia about Dean it seems more for me than he want a second round than anything else. He left him to die for a girl. For all we know, and more for Dean, he fix the impala, drive all the way from Montana to Texas, hit the dog, meet the girl and decided to stay. For two things: 1. he doesn't want to stay in the motel until he hit the dog and 2. When Don appeareared he disappeared and come back to hunting.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-05-10 13:49
Well Sam has feelings too and frankly I have never seen Sam expect Dean to clean up his 'messes'. Everyone and that includes Sam can have moments of doubt and when that doubt is born out of seeing someone that you felt something for that maybe in a different life may of been the person you loved? then it wasnt surprising.

What is going on between Dean and Castiel has nothing to do with Sam also the' running' idea that gets thrown up seems to of taken on a life of its own and in none of this as that even been indictated , he just saw Sarah die he simply is not a robot .
Amyh
# Amyh 2013-05-11 08:15
Quote:
Well Sam has feelings too and frankly I have never seen Sam expect Dean to clean up his 'messes'. Everyone and that includes Sam can have moments of doubt and when that doubt is born out of seeing someone that you felt something for that maybe in a different life may of been the person you loved? then it wasnt surprising.

What is going on between Dean and Castiel has nothing to do with Sam also the' running' idea that gets thrown up seems to of taken on a life of its own and in none of this as that even been indictated , he just saw Sarah die he simply is not a robot .
Thank you, Sharon for that perfect reply.
paloma
# paloma 2013-05-12 07:53
Sharon, I appreciate your comment, but when I said that Dean has feelings I was refering to amyh's comment: "Deans speech about Sam to the priest felt more like a set up for Sam's feelings of defeat after Sarahs death and Deans "Are you with me or against me?" speech. Does Dean understand that things affect other people and they feel deeply about them? why is everything and anything anyone does boiled down the basest level of weather Dean sees it as loyalty or betrayal?"
Dean said: are you with me?, of course Sam can have moments of doubt, but if he was going behind his back and bring demon's tablet to Crowley, is a terrible idea and Dean prefere to be ready for these moment. It wasn't the first time for Sam to do something like that, and neither Dean.
The situation with Dean & Cas has nothing to do with Sam. But both of them take the same path since fifth season. Dean was his, for now, infallible plan B. First is "I know better than you and I can do this alone", they can't, they now that Dean is behind his back, is a little sad that he is the babbysitter, for help them, they committ a redeem act and come back to do the same. One good, two ok but the third is very tired.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-05-12 08:11
I know what you were referring too but I felt what I needed to say in that post :-) . As I say what is going on between Dean and Castiel right now is between them . I am fully aware of Sam's past mistakes they are spoken of or referred to on the show when needed .

Where as Sam was going behind Dean's back to give Crowley the tablet come from by the way ? or am I reading that wrong?.
paloma
# paloma 2013-05-12 09:19
Sorry, my mistake, english is not my language (It's very clear with my writing) and I could misunderstand you.
No, he didn't make it yet, but like I said up Dean want to make sure that he won't make it. I think that the exact words from Sam was: I'm saying... Maybe this isn't one we can win. Maybe we should just take the deal. And Crowleys deal was: The tablet, the trials, you'll give them up,
or we'll keep doing this dance.
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-12 10:46
That wasn't the question Sam was asking though. He wouldn't do that, not at this stage. If anything Dean is the one who would make a deal with Crowley just so Sam wouldn't have to. You only have to see the sneak-peak for that. Dean was going to (ok this might be a spoiler so I am going to not be too specific) do what was asked without finding out the consequences, when it was pointed out it had to be Sam THEN he said the fine details needed to be seen to. He is the one who isn't looking towards the end point with any clarity because he doesn't see that there is one. Sam sees that there are two options go for it or stop. Sam doesn't have any reason to think he would have to do either one behind Dean's back.
paloma
# paloma 2013-05-12 17:00
I was answering sharon question about: "Where as Sam was going behind Dean's back to give Crowley the tablet come from by the way ?" And I repeat that I think that in that moment it was what Dean was thinking. Not what Sam will do. I can't said it of another form.
My computer have problems and I can't see the sneak peak.
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-12 18:31
Yes I get you, but really, if he IS thinking that then, as I have come to feel more and more strongly this season, a fair number of Dean's issues are DEAN'S issues and he really needs to stop looking at everyone as if the autonomous decisions they make about what they think is the right thing to do are them betraying him personally. The fact that whatever Dean's position is invariably turns out to be the correct choice is beginning to make the show more than a little predictable, but, whatever.

Having said that, I absolutely don't think that Dean is thinking Sam is going to go behind his back. I think he thinks he might quit and that would be bad, but not the same thing - in other words Dean is empathetic to the huge weight this puts on Sam and really on both of them.

However we can agree to differ on this. :-) If you turn out to be right though, I will be DEEPLY pissed at the writers because I thought we were past this level of thinking on either guy's side.
SassyCassy
# SassyCassy 2013-05-13 07:13
Let's not forget the fact that while they were watching that move, Cas was eating popcorn, or something else, but he was eating. Not only is the eating in itself weird, but think about it. Cas can't make popcorn himself. Sam was busy fixing the movie. So in other words it was Dean. Even though he was pissed at cas he was like, here, I want you to get better, so eat
paula85
# paula85 2013-08-10 00:16
i think i read sb wanting Sarah to come back, i did, but i think i also read sb else saying the same on supernaturalcon fessions? wtr, yeay, nice, another girl killed. if you get kissed by a winchester you die, kiss of death, godfather style! away from that, actually, as they (sam) mentioned the case, which is my pone number, i ...collapse? didnt hear much more for a while. there was trully, much to be analized thoroughly.