WARNING!!!  If you haven't seen "The Great Escapist" yet, read no further!  There will be lots of spoilery discussion about what happened in this episode.  So do yourself a favor and watch it before you head over here and talk about the episode.

 

I'm back from vacation!  And I brought a nasty cold with me, ugh, so I apologize if this is a little rushed or doesn't make sense in places.  Bear with me, I guess.  I appreciate it!

Ben Edlund strikes again, huh?  That was some episode.  SO MUCH happened in 40-some odd minutes.  Really good stuff.  And now I'm dying to see how they resolve everything in 2 more episodes.  Or maybe they won't on purpose!  At any rate, I've got a theory of the week for you!

Theory Of The Week:
This is kind of in two parts.  Part 1: What if the demon they cure is Adam?  I want this to happen not because I think it's what they're actually going to do but because I want resolution of Adam's story, damn it!  And I want him out of Hell.  But think about it.  He's been down there an awfully long time now.  Maybe it's been long enough to turn him into a demon.  Wouldn't it be great if they cure him and send him to heaven to be with his mom?

Part 2:  This is what I actually think is going to happen, though.  They're going to try and cure Crowley, but the TWIST will be that Crowley isn't actually a demon, so it won't work.  They won't be able to close the gates of Hell in the finale.  End scene, end season, continue in season 9.  Because it would be the ultimate FU to Crowley to make him non-demon, if he is a demon, and forcing him to live on Earth as a nobody again.  On the other hand, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to "cure" a low-level demon that isn't very powerful instead of the King of Hell and all that.

And how do you think you cure a demon?  My guess: you feed it angel grace.  Burn out the demon from the inside.  An angel made the first demon, so an angel unmakes a demon.  Poetic, no?  That's going to be Castiel's sacrifice in the finale.  I don't think he'll have to give up all his grace, so he won't fall, but it will be enough to make him substantially weaker.

While you're thinking about those tidbits, let's bullet point the rest of the episode!  I made a LOT of notes, so I'll trim some of the fat.  But this may still be kind of long.
  • "It's me.  Now it's wet me."
  • Kevin's right, though.  What's the point of secret knock if they don't use it?  Ah, because it's not the real Sam and Dean.  I'm proud to say I got that one before they revealed it.  Whoo!
  • Scrubbing Kevin's short-term memory, eh?  That sounds suspiciously like something Naomi would do.
  • How did Crowley get to Kevin in the first place?  That boat was super warded.  And why didn't the Winchesters pay more attention to Kevin when he said Crowley was in his head?  Weirder things have happened to them.  I don't think they should have dismissed it so easily.
  • Since when does Crowley have Stargates?  Or he's been playing too much Portal.
  • Awww, Kevin's taped message when he says he's dead.  Noooo, that is sad.  Also, Kevin, that was really smart of you to set up. Advanced Placement.  Kevin, no, don't be sorry.  NOOO, all of the Kevin feels.
  • Dear Sam and Dean, maybe Kevin's not dead.  And here's just a suggestion: if the last time you saw Kevin he was talking about Crowley and stuff, maybe go CHECK that he's dead?  You know, just to be sure?
  • Oh, Cass.  He sits in a Biggerson's.  That is really smart.  I mean, that's really, really smart.  Hey, they showed Pittsburgh!  That's where I live!
  • Stanford shoutout!!!!
  • "You're not really supposed to say Indians."
  • Naomi is SCARY when she gets righteous.
  • Ooh, Cass has always been disobedient.  I like the idea that Cass has always been on the edge of angel society, that he's kind of the thorn in their side because he questions things.
  • "In the words of a good friend, "˜bite me.'"
  • I thought they had never been to the Grand Canyon, though?  Amusing farting donkey story aside, wasn't that something Dean said way back, that he wanted to go because they never had?
  • When is the last time we had Native Americans in an episode?  "Bugs?"
  • Why does Crowley have an angel-killing Luger?  Melted-down angel blade bullets.  That is super smart.
  • Crowley, you sneaky bastard.  You have an angel on the payroll?  Damn.  What DOESN'T Crowley have?  Growley.  He doesn't have Growley anymore.
  • NOOOOOOO, that is not cool, Crowley.  You don't gutshot the pretty-boy angels!
  • Whoa, Cass put the tablet inside himself.  Cass is en pointe this episode!  That was so smart.
  • Also, Crowley, that was pretty good deductive reasoning, not gonna lie.
  • Ooh, Sam, doesn't think he's clean ever since he was a kid.  OUCH.
  • Sam thinks the trials are purifying him.  Called it!  Whoo, I got one thing right for once!
  • Dean's love of Henleys is fantastic.  Never stop wearing those shirts, Dean.
  • "What kind of angel are you?  We're the friggin' Winchesters."  Good point, Sam.  Also, how amusing was it that he pulled a "don't you know who we are" thing?
  • Holy shit, Cass, that was so badass.  Digging a bullet out of his own body?  And then shoving it into the other angel's eye???  BAMF!
  • Kevin, ILU.  He must have been in Advanced Placement Drama Club, too.
  • I find it adorable that Metatron isn't an archangel in this universe.  He was a secretary. 
  • God made plans for when he left, so I'm thinking he's not gonna show up again.  He's watching from afar like this is some sort of science experiment.
  • Kevin, I like it when you get saucy with Crowley.
  • YES!!!!!!!!!!!  Metatron, YESSSSS!  That was a hell of a way to save Kevin.
  • Wow, that is some heavy shit, Metatron.  "Ask yourself what is it going to take to do this and what will the world be like when it's done."
  • Kevin got the second half of the tablet.  Kevin, you magnificent bastard.
  • "To cure a demon."  Third trial.  Cure a demon.  Yeah, what DOES that mean?
  • "Well, we're headed somewhere.  The end."  Ominous, Sam.  And reminiscent of a certain Lucifer line "We will always end up here."  This time it's an ending of their own choosing, though.
  • Do you think Cass tried to land in the Impala but missed because he's so hurt?
And with that, I am going to turn things over to you, commenters.  What did you think of the episode?  Where do you think we're going from here?  Are you excited about finding out?  I sure am!  Remember, this is a free-commenting article, so as long as you are respecful of other commenters, the show and its writers, and me, heh, you're free to say what you will.  But we will be checking and editing comments as necessary, so be nice and we won't have to edit you.  Thanks!

Comments  

Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-02 00:06
Home Run. Ben Edlund is a veritable master.

His dialogue, his creativity, his vision, his pacing, his depth - someone give this man an award, please!

That scene where Sam talks about having never felt clean, always knowing, even before the demon blood, that he could never be the "Sir Galahad" of the story - beautiful. Brought me to tears. Jared deserves an Emmy for that one. It's such an insight into his character. Yes, he jumped in the pit, but that was about penance and redemption. This is different. This is Sam's opportunity to be the white knight - and that's why it's so important to him. Because for him, it makes up for a lifetime of feeling impure, of never feeling good enough. And it's something he never would have admitted to Dean had he not been so worn down and ill.

And Dean's quiet, "It's not your fault."

I'm surprised that some interpreted this scene as meaning Sam is being purged of the demon blood. I don't think that's what it meant all. Sam was speaking metaphorically. He was speaking from the heart. It reminded me of way back in S2, 'Houses of the Holy' - that Sam who prays, who seeks to be righteous, is still in there. He's just been buried under years of torment, poor choices, and bad luck. I love that we got to see that side of him again.

Other things:

Dean's "we should've brought him here" made me want to throw something at my screen. Duh!

Also - Kevin's video scene was emotionally gut-wrenching as well. And I loved Dean's reaction. But I was a little confused by Kevin's seeming 180 in this ep from terrified prophet to prophet with a backbone. I guess one can only be terrified for so long.

No, fake Sam and Dean were not Leviathans. I had thought they were angels, since angels are working with Crowley now, and the place wasn't warded against them. But I believe at the end Crowley said they were demons. A slip up? Doesn't happen with Ben Edlund - I probably missed something.

Loved the angel scenes. Naomi was frightening and dangerous. Cas was amazing - "we're supposed to be their shepherds, not their murderers." He's always been a true guardian at heart.

Loved the rogue angel, the one working for Crowley. "Nothing matters" - the despair and confusion that have plagued the angels since the apocalypse was set in motion was well-captured.

Loved Metatron. I can already tell he's going to be a great character. "It's all about the story." It is indeed - which is why I watch this show! I'm glad he saved Kevin. Very interesting that, being the scribe of heaven, he can erase angel sigils.

And Crowley - more clever and ruthless than ever! "I was born to direct." I love how he thought to melt the angel blade down into bullets - next weapon for Sam and Dean?

Finally, we get an indication that there may be consequences to closing the gates. Can't wait to find out what those are.

And curing a demon? That's pretty significant. I wonder what the implications of that will be.

Okay - now I've written too much. I give this one an A+

Can't wait for the next one!
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-05-02 00:35
The fake Sam and Dean were caught in a devil's trap, so I'm pretty sure they were demons. My first thought was Leviathan as well, because I don't remember seeing demons ever take a form other than their meat suit, the same actually goes for angels as well. Zachariah made some neat Virtual Realities, but I don't remember him being anything other than the same vessel. The continuity person has been asleep at the switch a lot this season, IMHO.

Speaking of continuity

Quote:
I thought they had never been to the Grand Canyon, though? Amusing farting donkey story aside, wasn't that something Dean said way back, that he wanted to go because they never had?
That's what I remember from Hunted. Dean wanting to go to the Grand Canyon because they had never been. Then in the Ghostfacers episode, it got referenced again when Sam said to Dean

Quote:
SAM: "Let's go hunt the Morton house," you said, "it's our Grand Canyon."
Which makes it sound as if they never did make it to the Grand Canyon. The really odd part is that Ben Edlund wrote Ghostfacers. I understand not watching every episode of the series. I am less understanding that someone isn't checking Super Wiki to avoid these continuity errors. I even understand that after this many episodes Jared and Jensen may have forgotten that they hadn't been to the Grand Canyon, but couldn't Ben Edlund remember what he wrote and that it was important enough that Sam gave Dean his Grand Canyon in season three?
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-02 00:47
The grand canyon thing...yeah.

You know, when I was a real little kid, my parents took me to the beach. The only way I ever knew I had been there when I was older was pictures.

It wasn't a memory for me, so in my mind, I had never been there. Even though in actuality, I had.

So I always said to people, "I've never been to the beach."

Now Sam said he was remembering things from his past with great clarity. Things he hadn't remembered before - things he shouldn't remember because he was too young. Dean hadn't even remembered the Grand Canyon trip. So perhaps it wasn't too big of a slip. (Even as I write this though, I know it's not gonna be good enough).

I just hate to think of Edlund making a slip up like that. But hey, they're only human. And the episode kicked butt regardless, IMO.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-02 09:54
Quote:
The grand canyon thing...yeah.

You know, when I was a real little kid, my parents took me to the beach. The only way I ever knew I had been there when I was older was pictures.

It wasn't a memory for me, so in my mind, I had never been there. Even though in actuality, I had.

So I always said to people, "I've never been to the beach."

Now Sam said he was remembering things from his past with great clarity. Things he hadn't remembered before - things he shouldn't remember because he was too young. Dean hadn't even remembered the Grand Canyon trip. So perhaps it wasn't too big of a slip. (Even as I write this though, I know it's not gonna be good enough).

I just hate to think of Edlund making a slip up like that. But hey, they're only human. And the episode kicked butt regardless, IMO.
I hope this doesn't become a big deal this week and get discussed to death. Sam is suffering from fever dreams and is remembering past events with amazing clarity now. Given everything they've been thru, it's perfectly understandable that Dean wouldn't remember, or would barely remember a childhood visit to the Grand Canyon.

Personally, I went to Niagara Falls when I was 8 and did not remember it at all. When I went back later in life, my Mom had to remind me that I had been there before.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-02 10:04
Quote:
I hope this doesn't become a big deal this week and get discussed to death.
Me too. One of the first thoughts I had was "oh no, I'm gonna be reading about this alleged 'continuity error' until the end of the season." But I guess not. I guess we're quicker to forgive writers like Ben Edlund, and understandably so. In any case, I don't intend to discuss this to death. As long a 'mistake' is explainable (which they usually always are) I can let slide. That's just how I watch the show. :)
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 00:51
On the continuity, I agree with the Grand Canyon, although Dean did say barely remembered it and "Grand Canyon" in Hell House was said as more as saying it would be a once in a lifetime experience type thing.

But I think the all the weird stuff on the boat could be explained by him working with an angel. Angel have been shown manipulating perceptions, erasing memories, etc, before this so I this a reasonable case can be made for the angel setting up a lot of that for Crowley.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-02 00:54
Dean said it in Croatoan, literally: "I've never been to the Grand Canyon."

Le sigh.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-02 11:48
percysowner,

On second watch, I realized that there was no continuity errors in the fake Sam and Dean scene.

Crowley had taken Kevin, wiped his memory, and put him on a supernatural stage, with a fake, but realistic boat, fake holy water, fake Sam and Dean, fake everything - so that he could get information faster.

Man, I'm slow on the uptake this week!
Beth1995
# Beth1995 2013-05-02 07:01
Quote:

I'm surprised that some interpreted this scene as meaning Sam is being purged of the demon blood. I don't think that's what it meant all. Sam was speaking metaphorically. He was speaking from the heart. It reminded me of way back in S2, 'Houses of the Holy' - that Sam who prays, who seeks to be righteous, is still in there. He's just been buried under years of torment, poor choices, and bad luck. I love that we got to see that side of him again.
I don’t know whether I am completely on board with this whole Sam Winchester being purified deal. It just seems so too predictable…a nd it wasn’t at all what i was thinking when that scene aired, I didn’t think that he was on about the demon blood, I thought he meant his past mistakes, how he can finally be forgiven etc etc…and anyway how is Sam supposed to know he’s being purified, seems a little too misleading to me…I think the writers are leading us into a false sense of security…and i’m really scared! :’)
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-05-02 08:16
Quote:
That scene where Sam talks about having never felt clean, always knowing, even before the demon blood, that he could never be the "Sir Galahad" of the story - beautiful. Brought me to tears. Jared deserves an Emmy for that one. It's such an insight into his character. Yes, he jumped in the pit, but that was about penance and redemption. This is different. This is Sam's opportunity to be the white knight - and that's why it's so important to him. Because for him, it makes up for a lifetime of feeling impure, of never feeling good enough. And it's something he never would have admitted to Dean had he not been so worn down and ill.
I absolutely loved this part. It made me so sad. :cry: That a little child would think of himself as not being pure like Sir Galahad. :cry:
Nate
# Nate 2013-05-02 09:13
Bamboo24,
Really excellent review. My thoughts on the perfect episode.
Can we have an “AMEN” for the return of Robert Duncan McNeill? AMEN! I hope it is not 8 years before he returns. Tons of beautiful shots, interesting camera work showing Sam’s struggle, just all around awesomeness to a Season that has had lots of new and “old” directors knocking it out of the part on a weekly basis.
I was in awe of Jared Padalecki. My all time favorite Jared performance was in “The End” when he played Lucifer. I remember at the time thinking that was going to be great or bad, and it was phenomenal. But last night my favorite Jared performance changed to “The Great Escapist.” The much mentioned Knights of the Round Table scene was his standout in the Series, IMHO. Thank you Jared.
Metatron’s home, the maze of books everywhere, WOW! So cool!
I agree maybe Kevin should have been with the boys at the MOL, but Kevin was protected (they thought), Garth was there. It’s hindsight, and you could say the boys should know if you want something done right…
Naomi is turning out to be a classic Supernatural character. I love seeing her mad and badass. Amanda Tapping, thank you.
Cas and Crowley, as fantastic as ever, thank you.
Metatron, perfect introduction.
BEN EDLUND, all greatness starts with him. Can we have 100 “AMENS” for Ben? I literally was on the edge of my couch the entire 42 minutes.
My QUESTIONS are, what was up with the Kevin/Crowley kidnap we thought we saw in “Taxi Driver?” What am I missing?
How did Kevin know Crowley cannot hurt Kevin, or make him spill the Tablet deets? Was that something Kevin just discovered in the Tablet?
A+ episode. What a great day to be a Supernatural fan.
Alice
# Alice 2013-05-02 00:28
I'm in the camp that thinks Sam's comment that the trials are purifying him means just that. He's being cleansed from the demon blood. When Sam said that, I got kind of weepy. The boy finally has a chance to be saved, to be normal, like he always wanted.

Oh, and I wholeheartedly agree with Bamboo24. An A+.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-02 00:51
Really? You think he was being literal?

I just didn't think that was what he was saying at all.

You want to talk about retcon - if Sam is being cleansed of the demon blood now, that's a HUGE retcon. It was already cleaned out of his system, for starters. And there's been no issues or mention of it since he got out of the Cage. It's way out of left field for them to revisit that storyline, IMO.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 01:01
Bamboo24, we've never been told he was cleansed of the DB. If his body was pulled from the cage in its original state, there is no reason to think that it couldn't still have the DB. I personally don't see something as retcon if nothing we know contradicts it. In this case I don't think it is.

I agree with your beach example. Regardless that is such a minor thing, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Although it is a little surprising because he usually is fabulous with continuity.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-02 01:12
You're right that it's not retcon if nothing we know contradicts it - it just goes against my head-canon. There's been no mention of demon blood since S5. It just seems a little far afield to me, and I'll be shocked if that is actually the case. Nothing in the dialogue of that scene gave me the impression that Sam was literally being purified of demon blood. But ah - I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out! :)

Regarding the Grand Canyon bit - it is bothersome to me, but I'm not gonna hold onto it. Ben Edlund gave us a wonderful episode, and I've loved this entire season.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 01:23
I the DB thing wouldn't bother me, because they would have had no reason to mention it (although it was brought indirectly in SC- the drinking blood only gave him power because he had been dosed with YED blood as a child). Sam was in control on his addiction, so he was drinking blood and his other powers related to YED's db disappeared when they killed him. So it wasn't apropos.
E
# E 2013-05-02 06:18
I agree with you too Kelly, even though they haven't mentioned the DB since season 5 this seems to be the season for referencing older issues so it doesn't bother me that it's being brought back up now. Maybe that was the point of Dean's specter fueled rant in SoCo... to remind us of Sam's past, his demon blood addiction and thereby his actual demon blood issues so that this cleansing idea would make more sense. I love it actually; maybe Sam's "normal" is this, being 100% human and free of demon blood taint.
Nate
# Nate 2013-05-02 08:39
Didn't Sam bite and drink his own demon blood in Season 6's "Caged Heat" to escape being held by Samuel? It was not verbally mentioned or talked about by the boys, but it was at that point again part of the series that Sam still has demon blood.
st50
# st50 2013-05-02 08:49
Nate,
If I'm thinking of the same episode as you, Sam bit himself to get his blood to paint a demons trap on the ceiling of his cell. Not to get the demon blood. (And how would drinking his own demon blood give him more demon blood to "fuel his powers"? I don't understand that)
Nate
# Nate 2013-05-02 08:54
st50,
You are correct. I remembered something about demons and Sam drinking his blood, but not the connection. I don't fact check myself before 8AM, too busy getting coffee :)
st50
# st50 2013-05-02 08:55
:) I'm on my second cup. ;-)
Alice
# Alice 2013-05-02 01:41
I agree with Kelly, the demon blood thing wasn't brought up again (which has been a major complaint of mine), but they never ever said he was clean of it. I think it's literal. It's not retcon. It's just writers that for some reason decided they wanted to pretend it wasn't there anymore and let it go away.

Yeah, I'm not sure about the Grand Canyon thing, other than Dean probably didn't remember it until Sam said something.
bookdal-linda
# bookdal-linda 2013-05-02 08:52
I think it's a literal cleansing and the episode kind of gave it away with the Galahad reference. And the men of letters then makes sense as kind of a modern knights templar take off. Makes that large ass table very symbolic, imo.
Ale
# Ale 2013-05-02 12:21
Quote:
And the men of letters then makes sense as kind of a modern knights templar take off. Makes that large ass table very symbolic, imo.
Beautiful, love this thought! :-)
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-02 11:01
Quote:
I agree with Kelly, the demon blood thing wasn't brought up again (which has been a major complaint of mine), but they never ever said he was clean of it. I think it's literal. It's not retcon. It's just writers that for some reason decided they wanted to pretend it wasn't there anymore and let it go away.

Yeah, I'm not sure about the Grand Canyon thing, other than Dean probably didn't remember it until Sam said something.
Agreed... Sam's addiction to demon blood was cleaned up after he and Dean were removed from harms way after Lucifer Rising (Supernatural methodone), and drank it again in Bloody Valentine and Swan Song, but no mention was ever made of it being entirely "cleansed" from his system. And I don't think Castiel, or any angel for that matter, would have been able to cleanse him of this when he was raised from perdition.

I think it was never brought up because it hadn't really been relevant to the story line in S6/S7. It is, however, very relevant to Sam's quest for "normal" in S8. Have also seen comments about how Sam knows he's being cleansed; well, he'd really be the only one in a position to know because the changes are happening to him.
Lindab30
# Lindab30 2013-05-04 01:06
Here is my humble opinion on the demon blood. Sam ingested demon blood as a baby, while he was still growing and it literally became a part of him, it changed him. So much so that as a four year old he knew something unclean was part of him. And this has followed him ever since, even though it has not been mentioned in the past few years. I think we all have things in our past we would rather forget so we don't talk about them, Sam and Dean are no different. So it doesn't bother me that it hasn't been mentioned in any episodes lately. When Sam drank demon blood as an adult it did not become a part of him in the same way. Just as alcohol can change a person's behavior temporarily the demon blood did the same thing. It gave him his demon killing powers but when it wore off his powers disappeared. Yes, I know, Ruby said he didn't need it but psychologically speaking he did. My point is the demon blood he drank as an adult did not stay in his body. In Sympathy With the Devil I took the "cleaned up" statement to mean no withdrawal etc. not that the effects of the demon blood from his childhood was gone. Cas said he was being changed at the molecular level. That just might be what it takes to purify him of what it did to him because he ingested it as a baby. Perhaps the blood he is coughing up is truly tainted.

I am one who believes Sam statement is literal. He has a link to Metatron that is bringing his memories into sharp focus, no reason to believe it isn't doing other things as well, such as giving Sam this insight. I quite frankly think it is wonderful. He was feeling good about it and actually feeling happy about it. Not only will the trials shut the gates of hell, they will free him of the pain and scars he has carried his entire life because of it. That is IF he completes the third trial. Either way, I hope the cleansing he has felt so far is permanent.

I am not answering you specifically njspnfan, it's just where I was when I decided to address it. There are probably 40 more comments after this and demon blood is no longer the topic.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-04 11:52
That's a really good theory, Lindab30. I especially thought your point about Sam being "cleaned up" meaning he was cleaned from the withdrawals, from the addiction, but not the blood that had always been running through his veins.

My only issue I guess, if Sam really is coughing up demon blood, is the fact that because it's part of his blood as a whole, he'd have to essentially purge himself of all of it in order to get clean. And then he'd be dead. It's not like the demon blood within him is separate from his real blood. So what, is he going to cough up all the blood in his body? Doesn't seem realistic to me.

The other thing that has always bugged me is this - baby-Sam ingested the demon blood, and just a few drops at that. If you ingest blood, it's digested, it doesn't get in your veins and become a part of you. So...I guess demon blood doesn't follow the rules of biology? lol
josieposie
# josieposie 2013-05-06 17:33
I agree that the demon blood is a part of his blood as a whole. I kind of thought ingesting it as a baby had a similar outcome to ingesting vampire blood-it was like a virus that changed you forever. My take on it is that Sam is being changed and purified on a molecular level so the elements of the demon blood are being expelled.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-05-02 01:18
What I really think is that John convinced Dean that he was supposed to always take care of Sam and coupled with Mary's death and John pretty much dropping out as a father after it gave Dean all sorts of self-esteem issues. What hasn't been examined is how John affected Sam's self-esteem. I think that Sam believes his feeling unclean is because he sensed the demon blood, but may well have been a reaction to John's view of him. We don't know when John became aware that Sam was a "special" child. The comics (which I have not read only seen summarized) make it clear that John knew pretty early on that Sam was a focus of demonic interest. I think Sam picked up on that attitude and really did feel unclean. Once he found out about the demon blood he had something that gave him a reason to feel that way.

Sam has been all over the place with the demon blood. He was cleared of it in Sympathy for the Devil. He drank it again in the Famine episode then detoxed. He really drank it in Swan Song. We never heard if he came back cleansed of it after the Cage, although I think he was.

I think the trials would have purified anyone who undertook them. No human is completely pure. I also dislike the idea that Sam was tainted for the entire series and that we should look back and see him as unclean for all these years. I don't know what Carver is aiming for. I hope it comes together for me in the final episodes of the season.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 01:34
percysowner, I agree the trials would effect anyone, but someone (I think it was nappi815) suggested that because of the DB they had a greater effect on Sam. That is how I'm kind of seeing it.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-02 01:44
I think it is Sam who thinks he was unclean, he has always felt like a "freak". I don't believe the audience is supposed to think that.

I think you called it on the PIP in next weeks episode!
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-02 11:02
Quote:
I think it is Sam who thinks he was unclean, he has always felt like a "freak". I don't believe the audience is supposed to think that.

I think you called it on the PIP in next weeks episode!
Exactly... this is not how Dean or anyone perceives Sam, it's how Sam perceives himself.
EireneS
# EireneS 2013-05-02 01:51
But when Sam talked about being at the Grand Canyon, Dean did not remember it. So, either Dean honestly didn't remember that trip because of his age or Sam's memories may be false. But why would they be false?

Also, guess Meg is out of the running to be cured because she got killed with an angel knife-but it would be cute to have her healed and she gets with Cass.

But if she is out of the picture, is it possible that Crowley would be the choice and the cure wouldn't work on him because he is not a demon or even a fallen angel. What if he was God, say on walkabout.

Just throwing it out there.
EireneS
# EireneS 2013-05-02 02:08
After watching the next episode scenes, perhaps it is Abeddon that is the demon they will try to save. Good Luke with that, guys!
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2013-05-03 08:51
EireneS I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS. KEEPING THE CHAOS GOING. [I wondered if Donna felt this way also, no reply] Thanks 8)
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-02 02:01
If you turn out to be right Bamboo24, you get a huge gold star for sticking to your guns :-)
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 00:53
Alice, I agree. I think him being changed on a molecular level is because he is having the demon blood removed from him.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-02 01:51
Alice, I think you, Ardeospina and the others here are right about the DB purification. It made me happy to think Sam might not have that hanging over his head anymore. Some of that weight off his shoulders.
Scullspeare
# Scullspeare 2013-05-02 00:40
Excellent episode! So much to love

Why am I not surprised the phrase ‘farting donkey’ showed up in Edlund episode? :lol:

And BE’s ode to writers via Metatron – how meta is that?

I thought the scene in which the boys played Kevin’s ‘last message’ was really emotionally powerful – wonderfully written, beautifully acted by all three. The gamut of emotions Kevin/Osric Chau ran through really packed a punch. Amazing work, too, from JP as Sam finds clarity through delirium and JA as worry for Sam and guilt over Kevin’s ‘death’ put Dean through the wringer.

And everyone had their clever clogs on tonight – and happily I’m not being facetious. How awesome was it that plot progression was made through good guys – and bad – outSMARTing their opponents, rather than one playing dimwit du jour. Thank you again, Mr. Edlund.

After eight years, J & J know their characters so well; As tonight’s demonSam/demonD ean, I love that they play it straight but change up just a little thing here and there so that something’s just ever so slightly ‘off,’ triggering that little voice in the back of the viewer’s head that says, “Wait a minute…”

I’m a happy SPN fan tonight.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 00:41
Glad you're back. Great points.

I love Ben Edlund so much. So very very much. How much did he cram in that episode without it feeling rushed? I really really love him.

And I love the way he writes Sam. Dean too obviously. But I swear sometimes I think he's the only who really gets Sam. And he actually wrote in an episode the difference in the characters. Which is freaking hilarious. But I swear he was almost mocking the other writers with this, because half the time this is ALL they do with Sam. Basic and sincere. But Edlund has him talking about farting mules, (I think you're right about Dean saying they'd never been to the Grand Canyon), Scooby Doo villians, and breaking my heart with believing he has never been "clean", even as a child. Plus he gave us wet Sam. I like wet Sam.

Plus did you notice how he explains his inconsistencies (well except the Grand Canyon thing-although Dean did say he barely remembered it, so perhaps he forgot before), but I kept asking why Crowley could do all these "angel" things but then he has there be a rogue angel. Which also explains why Crowley was able to get to Kevin with the boat being warded against demons. Brilliant.

About them curing a demon, I think your thoughts with Crowley are great but I can't see them making Crowley a good guy. Maybe they'll have him be a guy but still evil and working against them. But I don't know.If Meg was still alive I would guess in might be her. I absolutely adore the idea of it being Adam. I want him out of the cage and in Heaven too. And if he became a demon that would be a good reason he was out of the cage. But I doubt that's going to happen too.

I could do a several page review on everything fabulous in this episode but you mentioned most of them
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-02 00:52
I would highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt that Crowley is the one the cure. They'd rather kill him.

I actually wondered about this new trial in relation to Dean...if they find out how to restore a demon's humanity, is it possible that they could restore the part of Dean that was left back in the Pit?
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 01:11
Minor Spoiler I guess
I think saving a "part of Dean" is a little to philosophical for a trial. Both the other trials have been pretty concrete. But do I wonder how this is going to relate to the Sacrifice, since that is what the last episode is called. What is going to have to be sacrificed so they can cure a demon? Or perhaps Sacrifice is referring to them finding out some reason to not close the gates of hell and the consequences to Sam because of that decision.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-02 01:17
Oh - clarification: I didn't mean that the third trial would consist of restoring Dean's humanity. I think what they're gonna have to do is figure out how to cure a demon - and Dean isn't a demon. But once they DO figure that out - maybe after the trials are over - perhaps it would be possible for them to use whatever new technique they learn to restore the part of Dean's humanity that was lost. It'll never happen on the show, but it's just something that came to mind. :)
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-05-02 01:23
I would be delighted if that was the answer. I wish I thought the writers remember that Dean felt he left a part of himself in Hell. That hasn't been mentioned since season 4, I think. And it was never clear if Dean HAD left part of himself in Hell or if he was speaking metaphorically.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 01:27
I always took that as a metaphor, but on this show I suppose anything is possible.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-02 01:29
Quote:
And it was never clear if Dean HAD left part of himself in Hell or if he was speaking metaphorically
Good point. I always had taken it as a little of both. We have both Alistair and Dean saying he left a part of himself back in the Pit. On the one hand, we know that demons are humans souls that have been twisted beyond redemption - when Dean started torturing, that process started for him. It stripped away a chunk of his humanity, and he never got it back, and we've seen the result of that loss of humanity in Dean's love of torture. On the other hand - they very well could have been speaking metaphorically. Dean could just have been emotionally broken. Though I tend to think it's more than that.
st50
# st50 2013-05-02 07:41
Quote:


And I love the way he writes Sam. Dean too obviously. But I swear sometimes I think he's the only who really gets Sam. And he actually wrote in an episode the difference in the characters. Which is freaking hilarious. But I swear he was almost mocking the other writers with this, because half the time this is ALL they do with Sam. Basic and sincere. But Edlund has him talking about farting mules, (I think you're right about Dean saying they'd never been to the Grand Canyon), Scooby Doo villians, and breaking my heart with believing he has never been "clean", even as a child. Plus he gave us wet Sam. I like wet Sam.
Exactly, Kelly.
This was a really great episode. Why? (Beside the fact that it was Edlund and awesome for all the reasons everyone else has mentioned..) Because we finally saw a Sam that I recognized. A Sam with thoughts and feelings and WORDS. OMG! (Were you watching writers?? It IS possible to write for Sam!!! Now don't forget it!!!)

I enjoyed this episode for bringing together so many plot lines, calling back to the past, and for tying everything together in a way that worked!
And having Dean address one of the major wtf moments of the season - why didn't they just take Kevin into the bunker? - THANK YOU Edlund! At least Dean knows they really messed up that one.

I'm not sure how I feel about the purification of Sam. I'd like to know how Sam knows what is happening. Is it his hope? Is it really cleansing him? Or is it more like a ritualistic cleansing as if he was doing a quest of old? If Sam is truly "becoming human", will the writers have any better idea how to write for him?

The demon to be "cured".... somehow I doubt it will be Crowley. Much easier to grab stunt demon #3, but I'm guessing they're going after Abbadon. She's missing her head, but they made a point of saying they couldn't actually kill her - Why else make the point if it isn't going to come back into play later on?

As far as the Grand Canyon thing. I believe it was a mistake on Edlunds part. They'd never been. But I have so many other issues with the rewritting of canon going on this season, that that one is a pretty minor blip. And the farting donkey bit was funny. Edlund gets the pass from me.
I'll even give this episode an A. First one for the season.
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-05-02 08:27
Quoting Kelly:

Quote:
Plus did you notice how he explains his inconsistencies (well except the Grand Canyon thing-although Dean did say he barely remembered it, so perhaps he forgot before), but I kept asking why Crowley could do all these "angel" things but then he has there be a rogue angel. Which also explains why Crowley was able to get to Kevin with the boat being warded against demons. Brilliant.
Geez, I'm such a dumb-dumb, I hadn't even thought of that! :D So thanks for pointing that out.
olivia forest
# olivia forest 2013-05-02 12:05
And I love the way he writes Sam. Dean too obviously. But I swear sometimes I think he's the only who really gets Sam.

robbie thompson too! ; )

i am thrilled when sam's character is portrayed as multi-dimenstio nal and with great sensitivity (and when we get some sam pov!!). it is what hooked me on supernatural way back when ... hooray for the talents of ben eland (and robbie thompson).

cheers!

ps. i'm am a through and through jared padalecki/sam fan, but dean and ackles are FABULOUS too -- how much depth and maturity is he bringing to his performances this year. right? ja has always been brilliant, but there is something even deeper and more powerful and beautifully subtle about his portrayal.
olivia forest
# olivia forest 2013-05-02 12:09
very sorry kelly -- not sure why YOU weren't attributed with the quote about the way edlund writes sam ... i'm not too forum savvy!
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 18:44
Olivia forest, definitely no problem. Just a hint though since you don't post a lot. It's usually a good idea to put a person name on if you are specifically addressing their comment and not using the reply with quote. Because on many of the threads you can reply to someone and your post is half down the page below a couple dozen other posts. But we all no it happens so no worries.
dashnjo
# dashnjo 2013-05-02 01:20
Oh my Cas! I need to watch it again because there was so much going on! Feel like I don't have a good grasp but then again, it is getting close to the end of the season so not too big of a surprise! Loved Metatron! Kevign was awesome! Sam is resonating? Naomi's been programming Cas for how long and what does that mean? Ugh! BTW - keeping the angel tablet inside himself? Yikes, and painful to watch Crowley pull it out! Gah! Can it be next week already!
dashnjo
# dashnjo 2013-05-02 01:21
Ben Edlund is a mad genius!
Grace232
# Grace232 2013-05-02 01:24
A+++. What a wonderful episode! I also think Sam meant it literally. Remember Metamorphism, when Sam told Dean he could never scrub the demon blood out? I believe the trials are finally scrubbing it out (genius authors of ths site called tht one!). As to the Grand Canyon, I believe that when Dean said all this driving back and forth across the country, you know I've never been to the Grand Canyon - that he meant the driving he and Sam did as adults, not a trip they took as little kids with John. I know, it is an inconsistency, but for such a fabulous episode, I give Edlund a freebie, and choose to believe Dean meant as an adult.

Cannot wait for next week. I cannot believe how great this show is as it heads into the end of season 8! Thanks fot the well written and quick review!
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 01:28
Grace232, I'm fine with giving him a freebie for that too. :-)
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-02 02:11
I thought that maybe that was WHY Dean always wanted to go to the Grand Canyon. It might be connected to that almost forgotten happy childhood memory. OR I am just rationalizing to make it work in my head. Either way it works for me. :-)
novi
# novi 2013-05-02 01:35
Congratulations , Ardeospina and other ladies who bring forward the purification idea/ I've always felt that you are sharp, but now I KNOW///
sharon pence
# sharon pence 2013-05-02 02:11
Abadon is supposed to be coming back isn't she could she be the Demon they could try to cure or it could be either of them Sam or Dean just going with what others have said.

Great episode I kept getting angry with the commercial breaks.

Sam was a little out of his head and with a hugely high temp needing an ice bath ( shallow end was he neckid!) maybe he was just rambling about the Grand Canyon and being a little delirious.

Anywhoo can't wait for the next installment of the adventures of Sam and Dean
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-02 02:26
Hi Ardeospina, nice thoughts and it all made perfect sense, even with a cold! I had the same thought about Sam and Dean buying that Kevin was dead hook, line and sinker. Minor quibble. I loved this episode. One question? Why didn't Dean hug Kevin? Maybe he is all hugged out. :lol: Thanks for the review and welcome back.
MadIzzy
# MadIzzy 2013-05-02 02:42
Allow me to apologize ahead of time for not being up to date on speculation. I typically try to steer clear of it because it makes my mind go crazy and then anticipation kicks in and all hell breaks loose. So, here's what I took from the 3rd trial revelation:

Is it possible that Sam could be the "demon" that needs to be cured due to the demon blood? Part of the cure would involve the flashbacks and then maybe the sacrifice would be the opportunity to live a life without the demon blood in him - which would be completely different from the life he's lived. Or, something along those lines.

See, this is why I try to stay away from speculation. My mind wanders to crazy territory.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-02 03:35
MadIzzy

I thought exactly the same thing. The whole way through the episode I was shouting out IT'S SAAAAAM!!! So glad you thought it too.

Didn't you think that the rogue angel looked like Jake Gyllenhaal? I was hoping that he would end up helping Cas. I hate it when Crowley gets to the angels.

Also, was it just me who thought that Cas didn't seem too worried about Crowley and the angel tablet. Perhaps he has hidden it somewhere and tricked Crowley into thinking he has the real one!!
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 18:34
I agree about the Gyllenhaal angel. I kept saying who is that guy. I thought perhaps they were using somebody else from an earlier season. Then it hit me, he looks like Jake Gyllenhaal.

About the tablet, perhaps its just that the tab is useless without Kevin.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-04 12:01
Kelly
I hope you are right about the tablet and that Kevin is the only one who can interpret. But I have learnt never to underestimate that evil son-of-a-gun Crowley (may he rot in hell) and I bet he has already deciphered the other half and already knows what demon is going to be cured as he is ALWAYS a step ahead. (I was so happy when I saw his face on fire in the end, I was going "YESSSS burn you bugger burn")
Alize
# Alize 2013-05-03 15:31
MadIzzy & kaz1

I've been thinking the exact same thing with Sam as the demon to cure! Perhaps curing a demon involves killing off the demon part of him-like a Harry Potter horcrux kind of thing going on. Maybe Dean has to kill Sam, all of Sam, to cure the demon part, and take it on faith alone that Sam will come back, and that's Dean's sacrifice to close the gates. Sam's is obviously allowing himself to be cured-he could just say no, stay impure (his belief), but be alive and keep things status quo, as weird as status quo is when you're a Winchester, and they keep on fighting monsters and demons and the gates of Hell stay open.

But if Sam is the demon to be cured, where does he go if he doesn't find his way back? God's gone, so Naomi's probably not letting the human part of him into heaven, and the gates of Hell would be closed, so no going there. And Purgatory's out, since it's not for humans.

Maybe if this played out, we'd see Sam in an entirely different world we haven't seen yet in Season 9 and Dean and Cas working to find him and restore him.

Or if none of this came to be, at least the boys might know how to cure demons now, and be able to help some like Meg in season 9.

And I too am mildly ashamed to admit my shallow end attraction for Sick!Sam - it was like Michael on one shoulder after Sam collapsed saying "Should you help him?" and Lucifer on the other saying "Should you take advantage of this situation?" :)
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-04 12:06
Alize
Quote:
Maybe Dean has to kill Sam, all of Sam, to cure the demon part, and take it on faith alone that Sam will come back, and that's Dean's sacrifice to close the gates.
That sounds so typical Supernatural S1-5. I can just see it happening, and then we will have to wait an entire year to have it resolved. I swear I am experiencing incremental death by Supernatural with these hiatuses and season finale dramas. Honestly!!!
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-05-02 08:36
Quote:
Is it possible that Sam could be the "demon" that needs to be cured due to the demon blood?


That would be a great turn of events indeed! I never thought of that. When they found out what the third trial was, I was like, how the hell are they going to cure a demon? :-? But, I like where your head is at. You see, I'm actually NOT good at speculating, whereas you came up with something interesting. :lol:
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2013-05-02 04:51
I ALWAYS WONDERED WHY KEVIN WAS NOT IN THE BATCAVE. HOPEFULLY NOW HE WILL BE.

I TOO, HAVE NEVER LIKED THE FACT THAT THEY JUST LEFT ADAM DOWN THERE. KINDA COLD. THEY HAVE DONE MUCH MORE WITH FAR LESS & THIS IS THEIR HALF BROTHER. [IN 1 OF THE ROLE PLAYING TWEET STORIES, LUCIFER AND MICHAEL ARE TOYING AND SEXUALLY HURTING ADAM. NEVER UNDERSTOOD THAT EITHER.]

I GUESS KEVIN PARKS WAS NOT AROUND TO TELL THEM ABOUT DEAN SAYING THEY HAD NEVER BEEN TO THE GRAND CANYON. 1ST HISTORY OF THE BOYS SLIP-UP I CAN THINK OF.

ITS 0350HRS HERE & I HAVE 3 DOCTORS TO GO TO TODAY SO I HAVE NOT READ THE OTHER COMMENTS YET. HOPE I DID NOT REPEAT ANYTHING. BBL THANKS ARDE 8)
Alice
# Alice 2013-05-02 12:15
I LOVE that Edlund wrote that line for Dean, "We should have brought him here." That in a sense in the writers admitting their own short sightedness. Plus, it kind of addresses the numerous fans asking that question through the weeks. Dean admits to the mistake!

I need to make a list of all the things Edlund did in that script last night to placate fan complaints. It's wonderful he put that much care into this script. He loves us!
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 18:29
alice, this is why I seriously love Edlund. Typically the more I watch his episodes the more that makes sense. The more I watch some of the writers the more I want to scream in frustration. That's why I can so easily give him a pass on the Grand Canyon thing. Don't screw up several years of lore in 1 episode and I'll give you a pass on forgetting a single line from S2. Especially since he fills others that cover several episodes.

I was literally screaming at the screen every time they mentioned Kevin, "Bring him to the batcave!" But at least they address it.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-02 06:33
i noticed the grand canyon thing too...they have to know how much we pay attention to detail...so i think i'll lean towards perhaps dean just forgot :P i'm with giving ben a freebie...

i was confused at the very beginning. kevin was in the boat...i thought he took off...did he decide to go back? at first i thought the whole scene with kevin wasn't even real. :o

you know, crowley has his hands in everything. now we're seeing demons with the ability to morph....you know i still don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that crowley is somehow involved in sam's year off... especially when crowley made the comment about him directing...as if he's been in charge the whole time ....you know what i mean...it's almost as if his role has been director this entire time, with sam and dean part of his cast, but them not knowing it. it's still that paranoia in me rearing it's ugly head.. :lol:

i do agree that sam's changes are because all that God light transferred into him with ea. trial is scrubbing away the demon blood....a lot of us called that one....good on us. :lol: i like that idea too, although i never thought sam tainted, he seems to think he is, and if it gives him peace, if that's the normal he's been seeking, then i'm all for it.

i don't think sam is the demon though...in all honesty, i've always though sam the most human character despite the db.

metatron kind of hinted that closing the gates may not be such a good idea. i mean, where does that leave earth if demons can't get into hell? i don't think sam and dean are seeing the big picture yet...

i still think the sacrifice is not closing the gates.

what i wonder though is if they don't close the gates, will sam stay sick? he's done two out of three trials so my guess he's got most of the db out of him....if he doesn't do the last trial, would he still feel unclean? it could be seen as sam's sacrifice to give up total purification... and seemingly in his mind, never really being a normal human...

just my take on it...

did enjoy the eppy....the boys rocked it.....and wet sam...yummy...

i still can't believe booger is metatron though.... :D
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-05-02 08:41
Quote:
i still can't believe booger is metatron though....
Ha, ha, ha! I thought the same exact thing! It doesn't matter what Curtis Armstrong is in, he'll always be Booger to me! :lol:
E
# E 2013-05-02 06:51
I loved the eppie because of all the Sam feels, but I really need to watch it again because I am confused. About half way through the ep I was yelling at the TV "What's happening.... what is happening?!" Just like Bob Singer in The French Mistake.

Things that confused me: Has Crowley been watching Kevin via closed circuit TV this whole time? If so, how come he didn't just grab Kevin earlier when he still had the tablet or why doesn't he know where Kevin hid his half of the tablet and just went and got it? If so, why wasn't he more aware of what Sam and Dean have been up to for weeks now, seeing as how they talked about a lot of relevant things while they were on the boat. And where was Crowley watching Kevin from exactly? Is there a direct portal into hell from earth now? or was that some kind of surveillance area? And I thought Kevin had fled the boat at the end of Taxi Driver, but now he's back there, but Sam and Dean still don't know where he is and have been looking for him for weeks? I thought the boat was warded against demons, but fake demon Sam and Dean can suddenly get on board? and later Crowley can too? So, now I am back to asking if Crowley could/can get on board that boat why didn't he do it sooner when Kevin still had the tablet? Did I miss something that helps tie all that together? I guess I'll have to watch it again.
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-05-02 07:49
Ahhh that was such an awesome episode!! So much going on, but it didn't feel rushed like Taxi Driver did. @E I believe Crowley took him from the boat and he is in a pretend boat in Crowley's own little world. I think that's the only way Demon Sam and Dean could get to him. How Crowley got to him in the first place..hello King of Hell...he's not just any demon.
Next...CASTIEL! ! Oh seeing him sitting there going from restaurant to restaurant to fool the other angels...he looked so lost! I wanted to throw something at my tv when Crowley was digging into him trying to get the tablet out. And taking out his own bullet and killing the other angel with it? Oh yes, my Cas is one BAMF!!
And...I knew he could hear Metatron...I knew that what was going on as soon as it started. Oh it just about broke my heart to hear him tell Dean he remembered thinking he was unlclean...Poor Sammy!! As for the purification..I think it may be the demon blood but more than that also...He's becoming very angel like..Maybe his soul will be purified or some how will be filled with Grace. Wouldn't it just be heartbreaking to know this is cleansing him, making him pure, then have the sacrifice be the fact he has to give that back up?? We know all he ever wanted was to be normal, to not feel like a freak. What if he gets his wish, but has to give it up to slam the Gates?? It makes me wonder what will happen now that they have to consider maybe closing the Gates isn't the best idea...but I love that Metatron told them...It their choice...It's always been about choice and free will...the Winchesters prevail everytime!
E
# E 2013-05-02 09:25
Quote:
@E I believe Crowley took him from the boat and he is in a pretend boat in Crowley's own little world. I think that's the only way Demon Sam and Dean could get to him. How Crowley got to him in the first place..hello King of Hell...he's not just any demon.
Ah!... I actually never even thought of that, silly me. So, at the end of Taxi Driver, Crowley really DID grab Kevin and was presumably able to do so because of Ion the traitor angel. I can buy that... I would have liked it a little more clear that Crowley was able to nab Kevin in the first place because of Ion, but still, this is pretty great plotting.

I am not thrilled that Sam and Dean didn't realize that Crowley had Kevin all along, but hey, they are human and make mistakes, and I didn't realize it either!
Alice
# Alice 2013-05-02 12:19
Actually, and I'm very certain someone said it in this thread already, it was the angel Ion that betrayed Kevin to Crowley. That's why he was able to get into the boat. It was demon proofed, but not angel proofed. Once the demonic symbols were smashed, Crowley took Kevin, wiped his memory (he said that in the beginning) and then put Kevin in a fake reality that looked like the boat so he would carry on with his prophet duties.

It's all quite brilliant actually. I watched this episode 3 times last night. Everything lined up. Except the Grand Canyon, but I'm in a super forgiving mood.
E
# E 2013-05-02 21:03
Thanks for the clarification Alice! I watched the ep again too and it seemed much clearer. I guess I wasn't paying good enough attention the first time, although I thought I was.... weird. Anyway, great ep all around, I love how they are beginning to pull things together and I double love all the emotion; we haven't seen such raw emotion from either boy in two years. JP practically broke my heart with his acknowledgment of his demon blood and how tainted he still feels. :cry: .

I particularly liked Crowley's comments to his fake Sam and Dean that he wanted them to have "two distinct personalities" and to not make Sam too slangy and familiar because he was the more "basic and sincere of the two." Could that have been a little dig at previous attempts to write Sam?
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-05-02 08:19
I loved the episode. I was on the edge of my seat. I really hated the commercial breaks! Those suspenseful breaks are the only thng I disliked.

I am looking forward to (can't wait, really [insert evil grin here]) a week of speculation/arg uing about 1) the Grand Canyon, 2) why did Sam think he was unpure so early in life 3) does he really have demon blood now, 4) which demon are they going to save, and 5) why have they been so careless with Kevin so far.

I love Ben Edlund. So he forgot - or did he? - one detail that happened in season 3. He wrote a great script.

Metatron was cool. The actor had to live through the 70's, 80's and 90's just like the rest of us. Didn't he ge to be on "moonlighting" too? But he has this gig now. He was cool.

Sick!Tired!Sam is so hot I can hardly stand it. :D Ahem. Caregiver!Dean is just as he should be. I bet that is just how he was as a child alone with Little!Sick!Sam . And, Ahem, sigh, what can you say about WetSam? Ahhhh....

Loved it. A ++++. 15 out of 10. 7 gold stars out of 4.

I don't care about any quibbles I had. Yes I had some quibbles and I Just DON'T CARE! 8) :lol:

:D :D :P
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-02 08:57
Great episode all around. Kevin Tran really grew a set, didn't he? Castiel was pretty bad-ass, pulling the bullet out of himself and shoving it in Ion's eye. With Castiel breaking free, looks like Team Freewill is back together again and has a new member in Kevin.

Nice synergy with Metatron and the Native American tradition of storytelling.

Wow - really got a raw look at what's going on with Sam. His fever dreams are causing vivid memories and moments of clarity. He normally keeps his emotions in check but they are exploding to the surface now. This isn't about how Dean or others view Sam, it's about how Sam views himself. He still thinks of himself as unclean/unworth y because of the demon blood. This closing the gates is not just driven by revenge for him; got to see how personal and emotional this is to him. It will be interesting to see how this plays out - will Sam be willing to do anything to "purify" himself, even die, or will outside circumstances force him to NOT complete the third trial, sacrificing his effort to close the gates and purify/cleanse himself once and for all?

The writing, directing and acting was top notch this week; everyone really brought their A game, especially Osric and Jared. Was a little worried about Curtis Armstrong playing Metatron but, after watching it a second time, I can't see anyone else in that role now. Had a minor quibble with the choppiness of moving between story lines at times but am overlooking that. Is next Wednesday here yet?
pucklady
# pucklady 2013-05-02 09:01
Too bad Meg is dead. She'd be a great one to cure. Maybe that's why they killed her off - to remove that as a possibility.
Gwen
# Gwen 2013-05-02 09:40
Absolutely loved this episode. I have to admit that, quite often, my concentration often wavers in angel storyline scenes but this episode had me gripped throughout.

Sam revealing that he felt unclean even as a tiny boy broke my heart. My poor, poor boy. Jared does the teary eyes so incredibly well. He was fantastic in this scene and throughout the entire episode. Plus, Sick!Sam really is so very, very hot. Which sounds so wrong but I just can't help it... :lol: And we got some Wet!Sam too. *Happy sigh*

Loved the Sam insight that came with Sam's fever. It was wonderful to see his emotions and hear his thoughts. THANK YOU Mr. Edlund!! Poor Sam. He still sees himself as unclean, still thinks he has evil inside him. Yup, Sam ripped my heart to shreds in this episode. I kept thinking back to HOTH and his heartbreaking wish that somehow he might be saved. I can't wait to see what is ahead for Sam in the last two episodes although I'm kind of terrified for him too. He finally has a chance to be rid of the demon blood, to no longer be the 'freak' he sees himself as, to be normal. To be finally saved. What if this all goes wrong?? :cry:

Loved how caring Dean was: making Sam soup; holding on to Sam and guiding him around the stacks of books in Metatron's room; wrapping the towel around Sam. Awww...just loved it. When Sam talked about how Dean used to read to him when he was tiny I just about melted. Oh Dean! Bless you. Plus you know he must have done the aeroplane thing when Sam was tiny and Dean was trying to feed his little brother.

I think Edlund writes both brothers so very well. I am so pleased with how he wrote Sam in this episode. Edlund truly gets Sam.

The Grand Canyon thing had me going a bit squinty and WTH but that didn't spoil anything for me. I thought it was a fabulous episode.
Amyh
# Amyh 2013-05-02 10:25
I really enjoyed this episode. It took a little bit to realize Crowley was playing a big con on Kevin with his own stargate. Which would explain why the holy water didn't work...it was merely a prop. What detracted or maybe irritated is when "sam" and 'Dean" were acting OOC. I didn't immediatly think something was up instead my heart dropped that the writers were suddenly going back to the first half of the season and forcing OOC behavior to tell the story they wanted.

I'm glad i was wrong. Adm Edlund i think is the ONLY writer who gets Sam and writes him as a fully realized, layered person. And it was in full force here. We got too see part of that human story Carver claims Sam has. We got to see it from Sam and not just through subtext wrapped in an enigma. And it was beautiful. The memory of the farty donkey made Sam practicalllu collapse into giggles and then later learning Deann read to Sam and how the story of Galahad affected him at such a young age.

Castiel....I kept feeling really bad for poor Jimmy still stuck in his own body. I really wanted Cas to talk to Ion and get him to switch sides. It really seemed the guy coukld be talked into it. So i was upset that Cas killed him. But...honestly? Was there really time? Cas did what he had to do. Besides ION probably burned that poor waitress' eyes out. So...an eye for an eye. He!!!

Dean and The Grand Canyon. Honestly. If the boys have time for baseball games, rock concerts, and annual vegas trips you have to wonder why Dean just doesn't GO if he wants. I think maybe Dean has idealized The Gran Cany0on to epic porportions. Maybe Mary had told him they would go when Sam go old enough. She died and a few years later John fuullfiilled this family wish. While Mary was missing Dean had his family together, doing something normal and fun for a change. MAybe JOhn wasn't drinking at the time. So this ...even if Dean doesn't remember it ...The Gran Canyon becomes an IDEAL for Dean. and to revisit the grand canyon as an adult cann never live up to that ideal. It will simply never live up to his expectations. So he talks about it but never puts any effort into going.

Metranon was kind of cool. Kevin was awesome. Naomi and the Angels are boring, rotten one note prats as Crowly would say.
I think God left because he gave all of us free will. Ans he is allowing all of his creations to make their own choices as Metranon said. God, I think must be crying because of how his beloved Angels are utilizing Free Will. While Demons are evil; Angels are evil by choice.
Leah D.
# Leah D. 2013-05-02 11:08
I sort of agree about the Grand Canyon thing, I think it was a memory that they both had suppressed until Sam remembered it and jogged Dean's memory also. Dean as an adult, might not have realized that is was connected to a happier time and longed to go there. Lame maybe, but that's how I am telling myself it went down. Either way putting this one in the rearview mirror. Edlund gets a pass either way from me.
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-05-02 10:57
OMG, that episode just flew by! What a rush. My only conclusion, Ben Edlund is God...in the Winchesterverse anyway. :lol: I can't wait to sink my teeth into that episode again to comprehend it more clearly and take everyone's wonderful ideas into account. Did I mention lately how much I love this site? ;-)

Oh, Sam! Jared Padalecki sure acted the bejesus outta that! HELLO EMMY, ANYONE LISTENING???? It made me so freaking sad when he talked about Galahad and his purity and that, even as a little boy, he knew something wasn't right with him, that he could never go on such a quest. :cry: As to whether he's being puryfied from the demon blood or it's just in his heart, he can feel the change in him. Like Pinocchio, he has the chance to become a real boy! Shallow parenthesis here...Wet Sam is so damn hot! :oops: Okay, close shallow parenthesis.

I had the fake Sam & Dean pegged from the beginning. There is no way they would be that amiable to Kevin! :lol: And that is what he picked up on, not offering to go out to buy him fried chicken when there are leftover burritos in the fridge. Ha. Sam being surprised that Metatron has never heard of the "friggin Winchesters". :lol:

Okay, on to the speculation portion of our program. What, pray tell, do they have to do to cure a demon? :-? Give them a clean soul so they can ascend to Heaven maybe? If Meg was still alive, she might be a good candidate, she was starting to have human emotions. I don't think Crowley fits the bill, I still don't think he's a demon per se. The relationship he has with Naomi seems a little too close for comfort. Maybe he was one of her CIAngels at one time. Jake Gyllenangel made it sound like hell in Heaven working for Naomi and that's the reason he was so easily recruited by Crowley.

Anyway, I need to rewatch a whole bunch of times, and oh no, only 2 episodes left! :sad:
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-02 11:58
Quote:

Jake Gyllenangel made it sound like hell in Heaven working for Naomi and that's the reason he was so easily recruited by Crowley.
Heh, that guy was cute wasn't he? I like your name for him. I was looking at him and he kept reminding me of other people - Keanu Reeves? Joseph Gordon-Levitt? But Jake Gyllenhaal, definitely, too, also...
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-05-02 10:58
Wow, I just noticed how long-winded I was! Sorry about that. :-)
Leah D.
# Leah D. 2013-05-02 11:31
:lol: Not that long-winded at all! I have to admit I also thought of the Pinocchio reference. I was afraid people would think that I didn't consider Sam a real human. It would be so great if Sam could feel normal for the first time. It can't be that easy in this show. Pain will be had, of that I am sure.

Jake Gyllenangel- Funny!
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-02 11:11
Hey, do you think The Godfather would have been better if, instead of saying "Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes", they used the phrase "Luca Brasi farts with the donkeys" instead?
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-02 11:39
holy cow, the informant angel...thanks for reminding me, now it makes sense how crowley got his hands on kevin.

just rewatched...i did laugh out loud yet again when sam told dean he couldn't really say indians...

i also didn't notice this yesterday, but when the boys were checking into the hotel and sam asked if they heard that....dean's face, he told the clerk sam had the flu and then he did this crazy headshake thing pointing to sam...didn't notice that until now...made me giggle.

did also love sam giving metatron the whole...don't you know who we are spiel...that was actually quite funny.

do you think naomi is an angel? just the way she spoke to cas....calling him angel, as if he were something different than she was...

do love sam opening up..hoping that's not all he'll be opening up about...wink wink...sure would like to get his pov about the first half of the season...could we be getting that sometime very soon you think? :D

i do like metatron and i think he and cas will make for quite a pairing...

but as much as he's booger to me....i'll always be greatful to him for giving us one of the most important quotes to ever be uttered in a movie...

i don't remember his character's name...but i believe he said this in risky business....and it still holds true today...

"sometimes you just gotta say...what the f***.....:D

oh and the whole gotta cure a demon...well looked up cure on the dictionary....h ere's what i got


a : to restore to health, soundness, or normality b : to bring about recovery from
2a : to deal with in a way that eliminates or rectifies b : to free from something objectionable or harmful
3: to prepare or alter especially by chemical or physical processing for keeping or use

sam's not a demon so i don't know if he qualifies..but he thinks he's not normal due to demon blood, so if you look at it that way, maybe sam does qualify?

really am curious about this one.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-02 12:35
That's right; Curtis Armstrong played Miles in Risky Business - forgot all about that.

Cure a demon? How you do that? Maybe Dean can whip something up in the well stocked MOL kitchen :-)

Sticking with my theory that Naomi is a higher order being in the angel hierarchy. Her tone was similar to how Cas referred to Cupid in Bloody Valentine, a lower order being.

And you're right, we're not done hearing from Sam; me thinks the floodgates have opened up on that one, at least for the remainder of the season.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-05-02 16:22
Quote:
i don't remember his character's name...but i believe he said this in risky business....and it still holds true today...

"sometimes you just gotta say...what the f***..... :D
I live my life by Miles' philosophy ;-)
Valgal
# Valgal 2013-05-02 12:15
Loved the episode and if someone has mentioned this already, I do apologize. I was thinking there was a lot of discussion in this episode of mind scrapping-damn- Naomi told Cas she'd scraped his mind about his involvement in Passover and we know she'd done it countless times before, Ion and Alfie admitted to Cas that angels' minds had been scraped, Crowley told the "fake" Sam and Dean that he didn't want to erase(scrape) any more of Kevin's short term memory and we know that Sam and Dean had forgotten how many times they'd been in heaven(due to angels' scraping their minds). A lot of messing with folks' minds. How does that affect what we remember? How does that affect the stories we believe are true? How does that affect what we do with our lives if who we are is based so much upon our own interpretation of our own lives(stories, experiences?)

So, imagine that Sam and Dean have actually been to the Grand Canyon. Who knows what gets erased when a mind is scraped? What might Sam "remember" from that episode? Especially if he feels he is being purified? Could what he shared with Dean (He laughed like that when he was drunk in "Playthings". Is his laughter from delirium or are we seeing into a child-like Sam who of course would have laughed at a farting donkey) have been an example of normalcy that John was actually able to provide for his sons?

There are very few accidents that can be attributed to Ben Edlund's writing, either in his depiction of either Sam or Dean's characters or the events and the importance of those events. Sam is seeing things more clearly...thing s that may have been suppressed or scraped. Who would have done that to a child? Hmm. Isn't it beautiful that even as children, Dean read Illustrated Comics of The Adventures of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table to Sam. Even then, Dean sought out heroic and possibly mythical figures to emulate and Sam, tragically, felt he could never become Sir Galahad because something was "wrong" inside of him.

Always I ramble...but I thought there were quite a lot of examples of peoples' minds being scraped and how our perceptions of our stories might affect who we see ourselves, others and the choices we make. Metratron's character certainly presented those dilemmas. Which story do we believe? What do we do? And can we live with the decisions?

I laughed when Crowley's lackeys told him he would have made a great Dean. I wonder why Crowley chose young men to imitate them. It is probably no accident that it is harder for the one acting as Sam to carry it off. Crowley ought to know that "moose" is the observant one...Ha.
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-05-02 15:03
You bring up a really interesting point about all the mind-scraping going around. For all the times Sam & Dean have been to Heaven (minus that one time in "Dark Side of the Moon"), their minds were wiped clean, so yeah, your explanation about Sam remembering the Grand Canyon while Dean doesn't makes a whole lot of sense. If he is in fact going through some process of purification, then it stands to reason that both his body AND his mind will be restored (to quote the show) to their factory settings.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 19:05
Valgal, great post. You brought up some really interesting points about their memories, I have wondered if something along this line is going to play into the perception theme this season.
Hades
# Hades 2013-05-02 13:21
Happy Birthday Sam Winchester!
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-02 13:26
Happy Birthday Sam!
Manstrad
# Manstrad 2013-05-02 13:25
Great Episode!! Great acting by JP, I had his scene from The End as his best one, now I think his knight speech is right there.

I really doubt they end the last trial. Too much collateral damage, I think. Then my question will be... how Sam will return to normal?

The guys should give Metraton Chuck's books, so he can get up to date on the Winchesters new "new" testament.

By the way, Osric Chau's acting was superb last night too!
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-02 19:12
Manstrad, I loved Jared's performance in this one and the End as well, but my all time favorite for him, I think, is Free to be you and me, especially that scene between Sam and Lucifer at the end of the episode. So many emotions were playing across his face and I literally cried when he finally said, "Why me?" like a little kid and at the look of devastation when Luci says he'll just bring him back if he kills himself. It was like he lost all hope in finding out he couldn't die. Man it killed me.
novi
# novi 2013-05-02 13:56
Has anyone noticed that Naomi's eyes in the scene with Cas(s?) looked strange, like cat's eyes, with vertical irises? Or is it my eyesight only?
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2013-05-02 17:58
SHE'S DIFFERENT ALRIGHT........ ..... & GOTTA GO :P
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-02 15:02
Just a thought on these trials

Trial #1 - Sam kills a hell hound and saved Dean; he wasn't able to do that at the end of S3.

Trial #2 - Sam retrieves Bobby's soul trapped in hell; the man that was like a father to them. Sam wasn't able to do that after S3 to save Dean from hell

Trial #3 - Cure a demon; wonder if this all ties in to, or comes full circle on redeeming himself to Dean (at least in Sam's eyes).
MeliMelo
# MeliMelo 2013-05-02 16:22
Wow I hadn't thought of it that way but what a great analysis! Thanks!
MeliMelo
# MeliMelo 2013-05-02 16:40
OK. So is it just me or has the old Supernatural feel has FINALLY made it's way back into the storyline?

I have to admit, I am absolutely obsessed with seasons 1 trough 5. The storylines are awe-inspiring and the characters are developed and relationships between them are amazingly intricate. (Side note: personal favorites S2E1 and S5E22). Even though the writers had progressively moved away from the more scary lore inspired monsters of the earlier seasons, they had compensated with action packed sequences sprinkled with the perfect amount of character development and growth.

However since the perfect ending of season 5, I have found myself a bit angry that they pursued the series. Season 6 was mediocre at best – and frustrating with psycho killer Sam. Season 7 was fun but predictable – not to mention killing off Bobby and making him stick around as a ghost for a while... I had tuned in again this year with a shameful sense of dread that my favorite series was progressively going belly-up with only the amazing acting of Jared and Jensen keeping it alive. Although season 8 was progressively going nowhere with the boys perpetually stuck in the ‘losing – finding and losing again’ of their prophet and/or tablet, I stuck it out and this episode was worth it!

It’s like a breath of fresh air to finally have some three dimension put back into the characters and their storyline. I am quite happy with this one (Grand Canyon fluke put aside) and I hope this means the beginning of a new story arc that goes somewhere and that isn’t so predictable!
Nate
# Nate 2013-05-02 16:53
Hi MeliMelo,
My feeling is Season 8 is light years better than Season 6 and 7, and it started with episode 1 in Season 8. It did not just find its way back with this episode IMO, rather all Season 8. There are some mis-steps here and there, but there were some in Seasons 1-5. Seasons 6&7 did have GREAT moments, episodes, and string-of-episo des, but for me Season 8 started off already with a huge improvement in character ,writing, interesting stories. We've gotten excellent new characters (Benny, Naomi) rather than faux pas deaths (Bobby, R.I.P.) and total misfires ("the Mother"). To be at this point in the Season, with where the boys are now compared to where they started, PLUS the game changing Men of Letters and the new Lair, Season 8 has for me been very very strong, all Season long.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-03 14:26
Nate
totally agree with you here. It has been a good solid season with a few glitches here and there (cough Amelia cough, and the Doberman with the sparkly collar.. ouch episode.)

My only regret will be the PTB not explaining Sam's uncharacteristi c behaviour in not looking for Dean.

I have been reading some comments on other sites who say this season's stories have less 'monster' in them and are therefore less fearful, but I think that the mytharc's, characters and plots have become far more sophisticated and mature of late. There is so much possibility for the story to expand into almost any direction, which is a feat of note in itself 9 years later.

I was wondering what demon could be cured? and if they can cure one demon, then why not them all? Imagine if they cured YED, doesn't he know a lot about the gates of hell?
Leah D.
# Leah D. 2013-05-03 17:31
Hi Kaz, I agree about the season and your regret.

Do you know what to cure a demon means? It can't be exorcism, anyone who the right Latin words can do that. I am confused by the idea. Return it to it's original human form that it had in hell? I didn't think being a demon was something akin to sickness. Any ideas?
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-04 11:42
Leah D
I wish I knew! There has been so much speculation. You are so right, it cannot be an exorcism. It has to be something unique that only Sam can do. Along those lines, I was also thinking that if there are third trial 'instructions' to cure one demon, then surely they can use it to cure all demons?

You are right it is confusing because if you look at how demons have been portrayed, then there are many options to consider. Ruby said that demons were all human once who went dark side because of so many years in hell. Curing one of these would restore them back to human setting, but does this mean you need to give them 'medicine' (to cure the sickness) in the form of, say a soul (Sam's eeeek) for example. I really don't know, but what I do know it requires a sacrifice of some kind on Sam's part.

We have seen demons possess humans in the form of black smoke, which is confusing because that means demons can exist as black smoke. So how do you 'cure' black smoke? Also, all demons are not equal. There are demons that are impervious to Ruby's knife. There are also the 'original' demons such as Eve, who are very powerful. I lose count of how many types of demons there are.

I am sure though that whoever Sam cures has got to be very significant to the plot because it is scribed onto the demon tablet to close the gates of hell. My bet is it is the YED who knows a lot about closing and opening the gates of hell. It would also be lovely plot symmetry to end where it begins. Anyway this is far more than you needed to hear so sorry about the verbosity. What are your thoughts on this?
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-04 15:39
Boy Kaz. Ya got me. I am not sure WHAT that means or why it has any significance to the closing of the gates. You are right I think that it has to be a demon that is more important than the usual stunt demon. If we are including demons that are dead, than YED would be interesting. Death is never an absolute in the SPN universe. I guess they would have to get another actor/actress to play the original pre-demon human. Would the vessel get a reset too? Crowley (if he IS a demon)? Adam? Gosh who knows, and now I am just rambling. :lol:
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-04 18:40
kaz and Leah, I really want it to be Adam but I don't think it will be. I think the black smoke is supposed to be the demons soul. Black soul instead of pure light. Which is why the demons have to possess a corporeal body because they don't have one of their own. So my guess the "cure" will take place when they are possessing someone. And the cure will make the soul the light version again, so it is capable of being released into Heaven.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-05 00:57
Kelly
It could very well be Adam. k He has been down there the longest and Ruby said eventually everybody turns, so maybe Adam is a demon by now. Also it would be fitting to have closure on Adam 3 seasons later. Also I think it would be someone Sam is willing to sacrifice himself for. My bet is he goes into hell with Dean, rescues Adam and they end the season with them BOTH stuck in the pit. Now that hasn't been done before.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-05 11:51
kaz1, I really hope it is something like that. Because Adam still being there just really bothers me. I know coming back as a regular wouldn't probably work. But I want him in Heaven with his mom.
Leah unlogged
# Leah unlogged 2013-05-05 12:06
Kaz and Kelly, The more I think about it the more I am pulling for the Adam idea/solution! It would be another thing addressed by the show that we were all grousing about last summer. They have done that a lot this year, but some of it got lost in the hoopla of earlier this season. Yeah, Adam in heaven with his mom has a nice ring to it.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-05 12:33
Leah, I hope the do they do it. The wouldn't even need Jake Abel back(although that would be nice) because if he's a demon then he should be possessing someone else.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-05 12:39
I never thought of that. Of course it could be anyone. I am not sure what Adam is anymore though. I'm not good about this holding on to the story as it unfolds. What I remember from way back is that Adam was being worn by Michael. So what has happened to Adam's soul? Also if Adam is still in there somewhere, do you think he has turned into a demon. How long has it been?
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-05 12:40
Kelly and Leah, not even Dean knows what it means to cure a demon so what chance is there for us? :)
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-05 13:14
kaz, I think it is definitely possible that he's a demon now because Ruby told Dean that all souls in Hell eventually become demons and even though Adam is technically in the Cage. I think the case could easily be made that he'd become one and perhaps that is his way out of the cage. Maybe the same thing would have happened to Sam's soul but Dean got him out.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-02 16:51
More trial / tablet thoughts.

The demon tablet contains instructions for closing the gates of hell.

The leviathan tablet contained instructions for killing the alpha/lead Leviathan.

Been going along with the assumption that the angel tablet is for closing the gates of heaven or eliminating angels from earth. An emphasis has been placed on many angels being programmed/memo ry wiped/manipulat ed by a few angels. What if the angel tablet contains instructions for resetting ALL angels to their factory default setting, which is to serve man? It would be understandable why Naomi would have her knickers all in a twist over that.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2013-05-02 17:56
I LOVE THIS THEORY. I WONDERED WHAT COULD BE SO DAMNING OTHER THAN WIPING THEM ALL OUT. THIS IS EXCELLENT. NOW WATCH THE WRITERS DO SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. AH YI YI YI YI :oops:
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-05 01:08
That's a really good theory! Makes sense.
E
# E 2013-05-05 10:34
njspnfan, I love this theory! This could work dramatically very well too if Dean is the one to take on the angel tablet trials. He will have to choose; is he willing to sacrifice Cas in such a way along with all the other angels? Especially if returning them to their 'factory settings' means that they will all be mind wiped and forget everything they've done to date and throughout history, including their knowledge of free will, which Angels like Naomi, Raphael, Michael etc seemed to be defending quite vigorously. That would be very dramatic and interesting IMHO, and would make the Angel tablet trials very personal to Dean the way the Demon tablet trials have become so intensely personally important to Sam. And nice symmetry too, you know how this show loves it's symmetry.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-05 12:56
njspnfan, terrific theory! I love it! And I love your ideas too, E. That's an amazing thought. I think Dean should be front and center of the Angel tablet trials if that is the way they chose to go.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-02 16:53
Trying to figure out what "cure a demon" means.

Does "Cure a Demon" = "Exorcism" ?
E
# E 2013-05-05 10:45
I think an Exorcism only drives the demon out of it's host but doesn't necessarily cure that demon of what is corrupting it's soul. Sam was basically able to do an Exorcism with only his mind in season 4 (with the help of gallons of demon blood). I think curing a demon might mean something more like taking the bad out of the corrupted soul itself, or cleansing the soul so that it's pure enough to go to heaven. If it's only an Exorcism then Sam's already completed the trial 1,000 times over. It does make me wonder though if Sam will have to dig inside himself and confront his powers again... wouldn't THAT be just the most awesome thing? I'd love that!! Then maybe using them one last time and the purification will burn the ability right out of him in the end leaving him completely normal. It kind of drove me nuts that his powers, his demon blood affliction AND his addictions have never been mentioned even one time since season 5. I know that they weren't playing into the plots, but geez, pretty big issues just being patently ignored. It's also making me wonder if SoCo was a deliberate rehashing of things we hadn't heard about in nearly three years because of what's happening now. That episode was pretty hard to take, but it's becoming more and more relevant as we move forward.
josieposie
# josieposie 2013-05-06 16:51
This made me wonder about the curious reverse exorcism that Sam performed in Episode 2. Wonder if that will be explained or come into play again. :)
MB
# MB 2013-05-02 17:16
Castiel is cured of his injuries via touching Dean's soul. It recharges him either temporarily or fully. That part depends on how they'll play with the metaphysics of his wounds.
Donna
# Donna 2013-05-02 18:33
I just wanted to hug Ion, he sounded so disillusioned. Maybe that's why he made zero efforts to actually watch out for Cas or fight back.
kaj
# kaj 2013-05-03 07:14
Well, I feel the difference.

This is a good storytelling. The episode is complex and jumping around places many times but still able to keep the pace and still interesting. Not boring at all.

It has all the feels and ... I just love how the storyline flows this episode. No cringe worthy part and there is no breach of continuity.

About The Grand Canyon thing. It seems Dean forget many things that happen when he was little.

Great episode!!! Bravo for the writer!!
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2013-05-03 08:52
HEY KAJ, WHERE YA BEEN? look who's talking right :P
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-05-03 09:58
Maybe wiping all the angels's memories and having them serve mankind...inter esting theory. That would certainly explain why Naomi wants it. But I'm sure she wants it anyway (she can't have anyone knowing what's on there, SHE doesn't even know what's on there." I have a couple thoughts now....They might have saved Kevin, and yes he just figured out the third trial but do they really need him anymore? I hope they do, I like his character (and I hope they didn't kill his mom!) But now they have Metatron..he wrote the tablets, he knows what's on there....Now Crowley has the angel tablet, will it do him any good?? Metatron knows what's written and Kevin can read it, but what will Crowley do? Will he find a way to find Kevin and kill him and have a new prophet to read the Word? Will he shape shift like his demons did, and get close to Sam and Dean that way?? Now on to Cas...Oh my poor Cas, broke my heart when Naomi was telling you she has been in your mind way too many times, then Crowley shoots you, then digs into you....Ahh heartbreaking. (okay rant over). But how will he heal himself now? Will he touch Dean's soul like he did Bobby's? (I'm only saying Dean because well what would happen if he touched Sam's with the state that he's in?? Will he be healed on his own or does he need something?

I wonder how you cure a demon...To make a demon you torture it...so what do you do to cure it....make it happy? lol They gonna go around and try to make all the demon's wishes come true til they are happy again? lol I don't know just wondering what the opposite or torture is. :-p
NoLieFe
# NoLieFe 2013-05-06 17:12
Quote:

I wonder how you cure a demon...To make a demon you torture it...so what do you do to cure it....make it happy? lol They gonna go around and try to make all the demon's wishes come true til they are happy again? lol I don't know just wondering what the opposite or torture is. :-p
To cure a demon, it may be necessary to love him, to show him love? that's kind of what happened with Meg and Castiel?
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-06 18:40
Hugs, hugs, lot's of Winchestery hugs. Dean has been passing them out pretty freely :lol:

All kidding aside, maybe you have something there.
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-05-03 10:06
oops just realized I started use parentheses a few times and never ended them..oh well

"Dr Scowly Scowl..he like a villain from Scooby Doo" i think that and "what kind of angel are you? We're the friggin Winchesters" are Sam's best lines (aside from when he was breaking my heart saying he wasn't clean).
prix68
# prix68 2013-05-03 13:30
At the risk of bring down the wrath of the other commenters here, I was a little underwhelmed by this episode. I thought the writing for Sam was excellent and I was glad to get his point of view straight from the horse's mouth for a change. I was also touched by his speech about not being worthy of being the hero in the story. I would say both brothers have suffered with self esteem issues over the years, which is part of what makes them such vulnerable and real characters. But.....I did find the episode choppy and a little confusing. How did Metatron know Kevin was still alive? It seemed a little OOC that the brothers expected Metatron to know who they were when he's been a recluse forever. They don't usually assume people know who they are. We all wondered why Kevin wasn't brought to the MOL house but I didn't expect the reason to be we we just didn't and should have. Kind of a big oversight on the brother's part. Dean regressed to unappreciated caretaker one more time doesn't work for me. Maybe I wouldn't have minded some of the things in this episode if I hadn't liked Robbie Thompson's episode the week before so much. Add to that, the writer is God speech and maybe the Grand Canyon wasn't a slip up but a point being made to a fan base that complained about loss of canon so vehemently lately. Just MHO. Still love S8 as a whole and anxious for the last two episodes.
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-03 14:35
I have a couple of thoughts on what you posted:

Yay for Sam POV, long may it continue :D And the speech was just wonderful and affecting. Sam has been underwritten this season and it is nice to see Jared stretching his acting muscles. I am inclined to agree that carebear!Dean is in danger of being OTT so hopefully next season will be him doing the mytharc bit (which is long overdue) and Sam getting something new (for Sam) and interesting to do.

Metatron is Kevin's angel I believe and so he should have been able to know all about him. He was just not knowing what was going on by force of will I think. I imagine that the death of a prophet and his replacement would send somewhat of a reverberation through the angel-waves so M knew that he wasn't dead.
It was mostly Sam that was doing the 'we're the Winchesters' bit - which was really funny, they are so under the radar in every other way but goddamit the ANGELS should know who we are. And in his defence he had a highish fever and a loud whistle in his head - enough to make anyone a little cranky :D

I loved the fact that the 'writer is god speech', which was kinda pretentious, got undercut by Sam going 'just shoot me already'. I am assuming that BE was making fun of himself there?

Not arguing with you at all, that's just how I read these bits of the episode. (I admit I was watching the episode thinking it had been written by someone other than BE and was very impressed by the quality of the writing - I was only put right on the second viewing).
prix68
# prix68 2013-05-03 15:47
Eilf- good points. My husband, who always watches with me, made some of the same points and loved this episode. Maybe I'm just being supper sensitive this week.
prix68
# prix68 2013-05-03 16:30
That's super, not supper. Lol
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-03 20:24
being supper sensitive is also important :P
Amyh
# Amyh 2013-05-03 19:57
Quote:
At the risk of bring down the wrath of the other commenters here, I was a little underwhelmed by this episode. I thought the writing for Sam was excellent and I was glad to get his point of view straight from the horse's mouth for a change. I was also touched by his speech about not being worthy of being the hero in the story. I would say both brothers have suffered with self esteem issues over the years, which is part of what makes them such vulnerable and real characters. But.....I did find the episode choppy and a little confusing. How did Metatron know Kevin was still alive? It seemed a little OOC that the brothers expected Metatron to know who they were when he's been a recluse forever. They don't usually assume people know who they are. We all wondered why Kevin wasn't brought to the MOL house but I didn't expect the reason to be we we just didn't and should have. Kind of a big oversight on the brother's part. Dean regressed to unappreciated caretaker one more time doesn't work for me. Maybe I wouldn't have minded some of the things in this episode if I hadn't liked Robbie Thompson's episode the week before so much. Add to that, the writer is God speech and maybe the Grand Canyon wasn't a slip up but a point being made to a fan base that complained about loss of canon so vehemently lately. Just MHO. Still love S8 as a whole and anxious for the last two episodes.
Prixie

I really have to reply to your 'unappreciated caretaker' remark. It's really hard to appreciate being insulted and condescended to which is exactly what Dean did with the airplane remark and trying to force a thermometer in Sams mouth...not to mention the numerous 'kids' and 'kiddos". Honestly, would Dean appreciate anyone treating him like a child? Disrespecting him? I know this is the writers issue and while I love protective BBD as much as the next person but this behavior is so over the top its rediculous and it gets more extreme9and scarily obsessive) each year.

HAlf the time I suspect Dean needs (and prefers) Sam to be a broken baby bird (or a DIY project) so he could be super Big Brother, fly in and fix sam which feeds his se;lf esteem issues of feeling needed. Until he's faced with the possibility of Sam dying.

Sam appreciates Dean, he does. But Sam also deserves dignity and respect.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-03 20:22
I don't think Sam is unappreciative either. I just think that maybe he thinks he just needs to gut it out and soldier on because he HAS to. I absolutely do not think that Dean was being condescending to Sam. The airplane remark was obviously (to me anyway) an attempt to lighten the mood. As for trying to take Sam's temperature, how is that anything other than Dean being concerned about his brother? Maybe he is hovering, but he is kind of going crazy with worry about Sam who is deteriorating before his eyes and he can't stop it. He is being as supportive of Sam as he can but the idea of losing Sam is foremost in his thoughts. I don't think Dean is in any way disrespectful of Sam. Just a worried brother.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-03 20:34
I just have to add that sometimes Dean just doesn't get a break. If he is not getting raked over the coals for being an uncaring brother who doesn't love Sam and wants a better brother, he is getting slammed for being too concerned for Sam and not showing him enough respect and dignity. Jeez.
E
# E 2013-05-03 20:52
Hi Leah! I totally agree with you on this. I found absolutely nothing in Dean's behavior toward Sam that I would consider condescending or disprespectful. How can concern and worry be condescending? He was trying to lighten the mood but to get Sam to eat at the same time without having to badger him to do it. I LOVE caring concerned Dean. Maybe there are some people here who have never experienced a loved one fighting off a serious illness before and can't understand where Dean is coming from? When that loved one is ill in a way that you can't help them fight, you feel overwhelmingly helpless and it's intensly frustrating and frightening. You are willing to do ANYTHING to help even if that is to cojole that person into eating and making spoons into airplanes to do it. I saw Dean reaching back into his past with Sam to try and find a way to help him, not him being condescending.
Gwen
# Gwen 2013-05-04 05:17
Quote:
Hi Leah! I totally agree with you on this. I found absolutely nothing in Dean's behavior toward Sam that I would consider condescending or disprespectful. How can concern and worry be condescending? He was trying to lighten the mood but to get Sam to eat at the same time without having to badger him to do it. I LOVE caring concerned Dean.
I completely agree with you too, Leah. You too E. The aeroplane thing was to me an indication of just how terrified, frustrated and helpless Dean is feeling in the face of Sam's illness. Dean was trying everything he could think of to get Sam to eat. IMO there was nothing condescending or disrespectful about his behaviour towards Sam, only all consuming fear, frustration and deep love for his sick brother. I LOVE caring Dean too. I also don't think Sam was being unappreciative either. He's also terrified and trying to push his illness to the back of his mind so he can push on with the trials and finish them as soon as possible.

Quote:
When that loved one is ill in a way that you can't help them fight, you feel overwhelmingly helpless and it's intensly frustrating and frightening. You are willing to do ANYTHING to help even if that is to cojole that person into eating and making spoons into airplanes to do it.
Yes. This. Dean pretty much broke my heart in this scene because, probably like many folk here, I could completely identify with what he was going through. The fear and frustration in such a situation is all consuming.
Amyj
# Amyj 2013-05-04 12:21
Quote:
I just have to add that sometimes Dean just doesn't get a break. If he is not getting raked over the coals for being an uncaring brother who doesn't love Sam and wants a better brother, he is getting slammed for being too concerned for Sam and not showing him enough respect and dignity. Jeez.
Leah and E

I'm sorry i didn't mean too sound like i was piling on Dean. I'm not. I do love Dean adn I love that he cares...that both boys love and care for the other. PERSONALLLY I just didn't like how Dean tried to employ the airplane method and the thermometer. It was cutting Sam out of his own health decsions. and if Sam had tried to employ those methods on Dean Sam would be laid out on the floor.

THing is Sams illness is NOT viral. Its a consequence of the trials...someth ing supernatural. So the WRITERS having Dean want sam to just wait around to get better and eat soup feels silly. Dean is the consumate hunter and a brilliant strategist. The WRITERS should have had Dean come with the idea independantly of Sam that to cure Sam of his 'sickness' is to get the trials done.

I dont blame Dean for caring about Sam and wanting to protect him I blame the writers in how they are writing Dean (and Sam). If the fans can figure out or at least hypothesise that Sams illness will vanish once the trials are done then Dean (who is a brilliant out of the box thinker) should consider it as well. Why couldn't the scene have been Dean and Sam doing research together, evidence of lunch next to them. Deans foood is gone, Sam hasn't touched his annd Dean prods a little, suggesting Sam take his tempurture as he looks worse and tells Sam he's worried that the only way Sam will get better is to finish the trials. Sam then can tell Dean how he feels like he is changing. It would be an adult converation between two brothers who are also hunters.

Its like the whoole thing with not bringing Kevin to the Bumker. Ultimately Dean and Sam didn't because the writers needed a way for Crowy to finde out about the trials and a reason too look for Metranon.

I don't know....or I do know I personally DO love Sam and Dean looking out for eachotehr showing concern for and worring about EACH OTHER.

I geus i'm in the minority becasue I actively dislike the parent/child structureal part of the relationship. it creates an imbalence between the BROTHERS. It takes away Sams automony and puts fear to much pressure on Dean.

I geuss I dont get and maybe someone can explain this to me.... The boys are supposed to be maturing; their relationship is supposed to be maturing. And yet the parent/child thing is getting more....dominan t? I'm in no way a professional but as the boys mature shouldn't the way they relate mature as well? Shouldn't the brotherly part of their relationship become more doninant and the paretn/child part become recessive? And thus then there would be more equality and a more adult relationship?

And more honest, conversations would ensue. And Sam, Dean AND the fans would know what each was thinking and know where thhe other was coming from.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-04 13:08
I think that the parent/child thing is always going to be a part of their dynamic because of how they were raised. I am not sure Dean can ever completely let that go. I think it is more dominant now and in times that Dean feels out of control of his ability to protect his brother. No matter how it chafes Sam at times, I think Sam appreciates it and would be lost without it. Maybe it is a messed up dynamic but I think they both need it.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-04 13:26
I don't think it's a sign of immaturity, nor necessarily a parent/child relationship, for Dean to be acting the way he is.

On the contrary, I actually think Dean has shown incredible maturity throughout this. In prior seasons, he would have demanded that Sam stop the trials at the first sign of sickness. This season, he's supporting his brother's decisions to move forward. Dean said "I may not be able to carry the burden of these trials, but I can carry you." Of course he knows the illness is not viral - but the symptoms can still be treated. He sees his brother sick, feverish, weak, and yet determined to research and move forward on this. It's hard for Dean, but he does what he can. Tries to make sure his brother eats, sleeps, and doesn't fall over. How is that not what any normal, mature, adult sibling would do?

You mention Sam being cut out of his own health decisions - but he's not. He's refused Dean's care several times. Problem is though, Sam, who has a tendency to get obsessed just like his old man, hasn't been taking care of himself, either because he can't or because he forgets to. How can Dean be expected to just sit by and watch his brother deteriorate? He wasn't trying to 'fix' Sam with soup and a blanket, he was merely trying to keep his strength up with the only means he had.

In any case, the airplane bit was an attempt at levity - Sam hadn't eaten in three days and it was freaking Dean out. He made a joke, partly to get Sam's attention, partly to break the anxiousness he no doubt felt. The thermometer bit was also meant to be funny - and I don't see how it could be offensive. Sam had a fever. He wasn't taking care of it. It was serious enough that he was "throwing off heat waves" (and later caused him to pass out). Dean was worried, so he bought a thermometer and tried to get Sam to use it. It's nothing less than I would do for my own little sister, if she was ill and couldn't or wouldn't take care of herself.

I just don't see this as an issue of maturity at all, but rather a normal, human response to a loved one's sickness.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-04 13:38
:-) Bamboo, I wouldn't have posted my little comment below if I had seen this first!! Same idea only you said it much better!
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-04 13:27
Which is not to say that they can't have a mature relationship. In spite of the early season 8 stuff, I think they have made great headway since the first seasons. Dean and Sam nearly always collaborate and work well together on most things. That is a far cry from how Dean used to call most of the shots. Dean is always going to be protective of Sam and I wouldn't want it any other way.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-05-04 13:46
Oh man...

Exactly. Dean's Sam's brother and he loves him, he's worried about him, he wants to do anything he can to help him, that's never going to change. That's what we do for the people we love. Even when they don't want fussing over, we fuss over them because we're worried and we can't help it! Even when we know we can't help, we're still going to try.

I'm with you Leah, I think these two have made incredible headway in their relationship, especially seeing all the obstacles constantly thrown into their paths!

Quote:
Dean is always going to be protective of Sam and I wouldn't want it any other way.
And I'm with you on this too...and I love this about him.
Gwen
# Gwen 2013-05-04 14:25
Quote:
Dean is always going to be protective of Sam and I wouldn't want it any other way.
Neither would I. I adore how protective Dean is of his little brother. Dean being all parental might drive Sam nuts sometimes (although I agree, I also think Sam would be lost without it), but it makes me melt. :-)
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-04 18:14
Amyj, I am in similar situation with my older sister. My mom worked all the time and had uh issues when we were young and my dad lived 2 hours away. So my sister took care of me and my brother most of the time. As adults, my sister still has a tendency to "mother" me (although her version is a bossier tough love version-you think Dean is tough. He's got nothing on her :D ), but most of the time I just roll my eyes and call her on it, if she is going overboard. Pretty much like Sam. Like Dean, she's got better over the years and self-edits a lot and will often acknowledge she obsessing before I have a chance to point it out. She also asks for my opinion more than she does about anyone else's.

Coming from the Sam side of the relationship, I've never seen anything that makes me believe that Dean is being condescending or disrespectful to Sam(at least no more than the normal sibling bickering stuff that comes from both sides). And certainly not in this case. Quite frankly if Dean DIDN'T try to take care of Sam when he is this badly off I would have been pissed. Like last year I was frustrated by Dean's less than overwhelming concern at times. THAT is incredibly un-Dean-like. And and if being mature means going back to that, than I'll take the immaturity.

And I always seen Sam as extremely protective and likely to mother Dean too. Berating him for not resting and drinking to much and not talking about what's bothering him, etc. I'll admit that is not as prevalent this year as in the past but he has spoke of his worry and concern on several occasions.

I'm with the others if that part of the relationship disappears I would be extremely upset.
Leah D.
# Leah D. 2013-05-04 18:36
I completely agree Kelly. I am (was) the older sister and we had a rocky childhood (as many do) but my protectiveness never left, even when we got older. We had issues like all siblings do but until the day she died she was my "little" sister. I'd like to think I wasn't bossy, but she might have disagreed :lol:

I further agree that Sam is protective of Dean but I was responding to this particular situation. S7 was my least favorite for several reasons but the foremost is that both the boys seemed depressed and numb most of the time and were not connecting at all. Sam made some efforts but to no avail. Love how much they are doing so now!
Thisoldbag
# Thisoldbag 2013-05-06 11:03
I totally agree. In fact, the brother's relationship has been written quite well this year and anyone, like me, who's been in that kind of sibling relationship truely understands. It is difficult for the eldest to stop being bossy as we age, it is up to the youngest, really, to put a stop to it. And, I am so enjoying Sam going back to a more self confident man since the show had gotten away from that a bit.
MeliMelo
# MeliMelo 2013-05-03 13:40
Hey. What if the demon they are going to cure is Bella? I mean it's been long enough. She'd turned by now...
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-03 13:58
Am I the only one who is wondering about Garth here? He has been off doing his thing, but hasn't checked in on Kevin? Doesn't sound like Garth at all.

Also was just thinking why Cas didn't just hide the angel tablet under his ribcage and stay with Dean and Sam all along? Surely he would have been safer in the batcave. Also, he mentioned something about needing to hide the tablet specifically from Dean? Why would Dean be a threat to the angel tablet?

Wouldn't it be great if the Gollum had something to do with smashing Crowley's head in.
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-05-03 14:43
Quote:
Am I the only one who is wondering about Garth here? He has been off doing his thing, but hasn't checked in on Kevin? Doesn't sound like Garth at all.

Also was just thinking why Cas didn't just hide the angel tablet under his ribcage and stay with Dean and Sam all along? Surely he would have been safer in the batcave. Also, he mentioned something about needing to hide the tablet specifically from Dean? Why would Dean be a threat to the angel tablet?.
I keep wondering about Garth too and it makes me think that something has happened to him since they have made a point of Dean asking Kevin and then again with Dean on the phone trying to find him.

Cas and the tablet....I thought it was in his ribcage (maybe it was just his stomach and I wasn't paying that close attention) but he couldn't stay in the Batcave with them because he doesn't know about it. Dean and Sam have brought Prometheus and his family there, and they brought Charlie there. But no one else even knows it exists. Maybe Dean is a threat because if there were "trials" on the angel tablet it would be up to him to do them since Sam did the demon tablet. But I don't think Cas wants ANYONE to have the tablet. The angels want it, Crowley wants it and I'm sure we'll get to the point where the Winchesters want it. So maybe Cas thinks Dean can close the Gates of Heaven with it and that Naomi and Crowley would screw with the angels if they had it.

The Gollum smashing Crowley's head in...lmao that would be a good one! I've been wondering about Aaron and if he and the Gollum would come back into play somehow. I mean..they meet all these people when they are trying to save them...Doesn't it occur to them that some might become hunters after their own little tragedies with demons/monsters ? I think Aaron would have made a good hunter, he was funny and he was clever, he threw Dean off for a bit by pretending he was gay....lol I keep thinking Dean looked so disappointed that it wasn't a "gay thing" after all. (Not saying he wanted him to be..personally I don't see any of these "slash relationships" but I'm not hating on anyone that does.) Anyway...Aaron and the Gollum would be a sweet addition to their team. Can you imagine being a monster and having to go up against the Winchesters, Castiel, and a friggin Gollum?! Sounds like it would make a pretty sweet episode to me.
elle
# elle 2013-05-03 19:12
Reading your comment "addition to their team" I was struck with an insane vision of all these people from over the years, like Aaron and his Gollum, Charlie, Cas, Garth, Kevin and so many others joining the boys in the Batcave around the light-up map table like some sort of Hunters Justice League of America.

I think I'm losing my mind the closer we get to the finale but that thought made me laugh really hard.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-03 20:03
Hi Elle and LoveMyCas87, I have been thinking about how last year was all about losing all of their support systems while this year the guys have been accumulating allies. Many of whom would be great "team" members at the MOL bunker. Some would be more suited to the field, others would be beneficial in the research dept. I would not be surprised if they went down that road in the future. It seems that the bunker was introduced with something more in mind than a home base for the brothers. I wouldn't hate it as an endgame for the series.
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-03 20:18
Before the season started when we all assumed that S would be researching how to find D (yes, I know, don't mention the war!). I posted an idea that he would have Charlie helping him research and working in a secret lair (I thought Bobby's basement / panic room since a burnt-out ruin above would be a great disguise) doing research and maybe with Jodie Mills helping too!

Maybe I won't be completely wrong in the end. :D
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-04 00:18
Maybe you won't eilf :-) I know I could live with that. Of course the J's have said repeatedly that going out in a blaze of glory would suit them. I think they have recently backed off on that a bit. I don't think white picket fences are in their future. Forming an alliance to carry on the legacy has a nice symmetry.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-04 11:21
Hey Leah and Eilf
If you look at the ratings the show is going from strength to strength (and just an aside, no I don't think it is because of the Arrow pairing. I honestly think the way the show has been written this season has attracted male viewership back, Sweetondean may know more about demographics, but I'm sure the increase in ratings has something to do with the direction the show has taken). Perhaps if the ratings continue to improve, then a movie might not be such an impossibility. With the J's backing off on the 'blaze of glory' end, you never know, maybe they are hoping for a movie deal. That would be such a wonderful ending to the show don't you think.

Try as I might my heart and head cannot entertain the idea of a future Supernatural without Sam and Dean though.

I was just saying to Nate that I was wondering what demon would be cured; and also if they can cure one demon, then why not them all? Imagine if they cured YED, doesn't he know a lot about the gates of hell? I know he comes from a much earlier season but then I suppose the possibility exists for any demon in series to be a candidate.

I was thinking it could also be Sam who is cured too, but I think the 'curing' process is already happening as he is being purified by the trials themselves. I also find it interesting that he is 'resonating' with Metatron as he hasn't resonated with any other angels before, even arch-angels. It's not like Metatron is a super-angel or anything, just a secretary. So either Sam is becoming an angelic being or all is not what it seems with Metatron.

As for Naomi, after the Gollum has finished Crowley bashing, I would be TOTALLY ok with him using similar violence on her. I am a total pacifist, but I have found my limit in her. I swear Naomi and Crowley are one and the same person. They are equally matched in power, cruelty and deviousness. Perhaps before heaven and hell existed all created beings had heaven and hell exist inside of them and then something happened to split them into their antithetic components, (I remember a movie like that with Demi Moore) and this is the reason for angels and demons and heaven and hell and god and the devil. You know, like a yin yang thing.

Anyways, it's Saturday afternoon, this speculating like crazy is because I have a little time on my hands!!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-05-04 15:02
Quote:
I also find it interesting that he is 'resonating' with Metatron as he hasn't resonated with any other angels before, even arch-angels. It's not like Metatron is a super-angel or anything, just a secretary. So either Sam is becoming an angelic being or all is not what it seems with Metatron.
Just on this, I think this is more about the Word than about angels - Metatron said: "You've undertaken the trials. You're trying to pull one of the great levers, aren't you? You're pretty far along, too. You get that far along, you start resonating with the Word. Or with its source on the material plane. With me."

So I think the resonating business is due to the trials and is the trials/the Word/Metatron specific, not just angelic.

As for the ratings, well it's most likely a bunch of things.

Certainly teaming up with Arrow would have helped initially - but hey, getting the audience there is one thing, having them stick is another, and the audience has stuck this season which has been reflected in consistent ratings. So that is a reflection of general audience satisfaction if nothing else. They're still tuning in week to week.

The other thing is the move from Friday to Wednesday. We may now be seeing some numbers that were previously caught in the DVR Live+7days ratings that are now being caught in the overnight As Live ratings. Maybe more people are watching Live rather than DVRing to watch at a later date. However, the numbers have been significantly larger which would indicate a larger base audience. I'd have to look at the overall cumulative (all captured) numbers from this year to last year to understand if there's been a change. I'd also have to look at the demographic by sex breakdown to see if there's been a jump in the number of males watching the show, it's impossible to know that without having those figures.

I'll make this a mission and see if I can find more detailed ratings breakdowns for the season!

One thing to keep in mind is that we have equalled Arrow twice this season (that I recall anyway) in the targeted demographic share and we beat The Vampire Diaries last week. Pretty cool!

Another thing to keep in mind is that the CW take more than just the Nielsen's ratings into consideration. Warners have significant deals in place for cross platform screenings of Supernatural via Hulu and Netflix. These deals are worth millions to them. Plus, let's not forget DVD sales nationally and internationally , let alone the syndication deal with TNT.

In addition to that, the CW pay attention to their online viewing numbers - the official ones ( :-* ) - plus iTunes download purchases. As the network skews to a younger audience, these multi-platform engagements are important to their big picture. For a network with a small audience base, like the CW, these additional revenue streams are significant as their advertising revenue is never going to be what it is on the big networks.

I hope that answers some questions and wasn't too boring and technical? I love me a ratings nerd out!
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-05 01:06
Sweatondean
Thanks for the ratings info. I love to know who is watching when and how. Didn't know about netflix and the younger audience though. Interesting how technology changes how we interact!

Re the Word and Sam, I agree the resonating has got to do with the Word and Metatron. My feeling is that when he started the trials why didn't he then resonate with the tablet or Kevin if it had something to do with the Word. I think he is being purified into something good like an angel? Perhaps angels are just people who have done well in heaven and are not 'beings' created by God. Just rambling on here
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-05-05 01:59
I read it as, the further you go into the trials the more enchance that connection will be. Hence, getting to the 3rd trial and finally meeting Metatron, the source of the Word on the material plane, made Sam start to resonate with the Word.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-05 04:13
I see what you mean, he is resonating with the Word more and more as he gets closer to completing the trials. Goodness knows what's going to happen to poor Sam after the third trial. Only two more episodes to go. What do the fans do all the months in-between? When will season 9 air do you know yet?
elle
# elle 2013-05-03 22:55
I was thinking about the endgame possibilities of this as well - maybe it's time the hunters go less Wildman primal and more central network. I mean, Bobby was kind of doing that and then Garth picked up the baton and went a bit further - why not formalize it even further? Hunter CIA? It's not totally insane I suppose and if we consider the nods to this type of idea - even with Krissy and the hunter school (not that we need to go that young or that crazy, because that was a touch extreme); maybe the writers are thinking along these lines for the future when SPN does wrap up (you know, the day I fling myself at the TV screen sobbing and yelling "NO!! Come back!!!!" like a mad woman).
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-03 23:49
Me too Elle, me too. :lol:
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-04 11:53
LoveMyCas87

I'd forgotten that Cas doesn't know about the bat cave. I just feel so bad for poor Cas who is once again all alone trying to save the world. Also the one person whom he was REALLY hiding from was friggin Crowley (and here I was thinking and hoping that he would see the light one day eventually, turn all soft and help Dean and Sam) and he is the one person who ends up with it. AAARGH!! Unless of course that Cas has gone and duplicated it and put it back where they found it!! hope hope hope
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-05-04 13:09
I feel bad for Cas too...I always do. He's is always trying to do the right thing and trying to make the world better. (Yeah he let the Leviathan out but he didn't know and he was trying to stop Raphael from completely taking over Heaven). He genuinely believes in the human race and wants to protect them..help them...ooh my heart is going to break when this show ends!

Oh and I like your thought on duplicating the tablet ( I don't think that's the case since he had the other one hidden inside of him) but I like the idea! Cas screwing over Crowley and then re-hiding the tablet from makind, the angels and demons...Seems like a very Cas like thing to do.
Daisymae
# Daisymae 2013-05-03 18:22
Hey, anyone know the pretty-boy angel's name?

Also, if anyone goes to Comic-Con, ask Carver about the Grand Canyon blooper and do it with love. :-)
elle
# elle 2013-05-03 19:16
Do you mean Ion? Who Cas killed by pulling the bullet out of his own stomach?
Daisymae
# Daisymae 2013-05-04 13:52
Yes, I mean Ion. I had forgotten his name.
Race
# Race 2013-05-04 16:04
A part of me hopes the demon cured is Meg... In any case, I don't believe it is Sam. If the trials are purifying him, then it would seem to me then he could only be completely purified when the third trial is completed. The action would be confused with the result in my mind.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-04 16:46
Race, I agree. Plus I am already confused by all the stuff they have introduced in the latter part of this season. Enjoying it though. :-)
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-05-05 04:53
I have a feeling the demon has got to be important enough for God or whoever ordered the tablet to have written it into the trial. I WISH it could be Meg too as I kind of got her in the end.

I am now wondering about the trials though. I mean closing the gates of hell requires three trials; killing a hellhound, saving a soul from hell and curing a demon. The first two are related as Sam needed to have hellhound blood to get into hell undetected (that's my take on it anyway), and the person he had to rescue was Bobby. So I am sure the last trial, curing a demon, has got to be connected to the other two. I have a feeling that it has to do with Bobby and that he needed to get to heaven (apart from the fact that he wasn't meant to be in hell in the first place) for the third trial to be completed. The reason that Crowley had him thrown him into hell is that he knew something about Bobby's part in the third trial (remember he had the other half of the tablet). So I think that there is a demon in heaven who needs to be cured... Naomi perhaps? Maybe her brain has also been tampered with, not sure about this though.

At this stage I feel that Naomi has done some tampering with my brain too as there has been so much to hold onto plot wise that I feel like my head is going to explode. What do you think?
Race
# Race 2013-05-05 10:17
I like your idea and I agree, there is a lot held back which I guess is part of the fun. I just hope the episodes tying everything together are not rushed and sloppy. I am interested to see how Garth's plot line develops and how it all wraps into the next few episodes. The writers have been setting up something for that... As well as the possibility of not closing the gates.
E
# E 2013-05-05 11:11
It also occurs to me that the third trial is to cure a demon... I mean they actually have to cure the demon itself, not the person carrying the demon. A demon in its true form is just black smoke, they need a host to interact with humans. So, will the boys have to separate and somehow contain the black smoke separately from it's meat suit before they can complete the trial? If not, what will the 'cure' do to the host carrying the demon? Lots of things to consider.

This leads to the questions of how many demons do we actually know about that are still alive? Azazel and Meg are both (presumably) dead. Crowley may be a live demon, but that's currently under debate, and I am not sure that the PTB would be willing to let this most awesome of big bad's go just yet. The most likely person at this point could be Adam... he's been in the pit for 3 years (4 if you include the "missing" year) which is like 360-480 years hell time; more than enough to make Adam into a demon. There's also Abbadon, and they basically have her in captivity... but I'd like the demon they cure to be more meaningful to them than her... the brother's feel no obligation to help Abbadon. They could locate some previously unknown demon, but that wouldn't hold the dramatic weight of them attempting to cure a demon that has history in the show like Meg. I like the idea of Adam best, but who knows if Jake Abel was even available; and I haven't heard a peep about it... if he'd been back we most surely would have heard something through the grapevine, that kind of a casting secret is hard to keep.
Leah unlogged
# Leah unlogged 2013-05-05 11:46
That would be great E, it would tie up that loose end and put another check in the pro column for me.

The demon cure thing is a bit of a mind-bender isn't it? :-)