I knew “Goodbye Stranger†was going to be good from the opening scene. I’m pretty sure my mouth hung open for that entire first commercial break. Finally our questions were answered about what exactly Naomi wanted from Cass. She wanted him to kill Dean. And she made him practice. A lot. So here’s my first question; why Dean? Well, I guess the question should actually be, why JUST Dean? Cass was supposed to be protecting the angel tablet from getting taken by Crowley. That makes sense. The angels wouldn’t want demons holding the instruction manual from closing heaven. But why keep the information from Sam and Dean? Is it just because Naomi wanted Cass to bring the tablet straight to heaven without any trouble from them? I think there’s more to it than that. It seems Cas was instructed to keep that tablet away from Dean specifically. And his training seemed pretty Dean-specific. So what does this tablet have to do with Dean? My initial thought was that maybe he could read it. But that would make him a prophet and there aren’t supposed to be more than one of those at a time. Plus, Dean was touching the tablet at one point and nothing happened. There was no grand light or shaking earth. But Dean has been connected to heaven and angels since Cas gripped him tight and raised him from perdition. And if you believe in the idea of his destiny, the connection started much earlier than that. So a connection to the angel tablet wouldn’t be too surprising. I just can’t for the life of me figure out what that connection may be. What do you guys think? Why was Naomi so focused on Cass killing Dean? And why did Cass want to protect that tablet from Dean?
There is always the possibility that I’m reading too much into this. The answer could be more simple. Maybe Naomi and Cass are more concerned with Dean because Sam is in a weakened state. Cass said that Sam was damaged in ways even he couldn’t repair. So maybe Sam is no longer seen as a threat? I personally can’t believe that. Even if he’s physically weakened his mind is sharp as ever. And let’s be honest, Sam Winchester’s weakened state is still a heck of a lot stronger than most people’s regular state. Still, it’s a possibility. So, is anyone else worried that Sam’s weakened physical state will spread as the trials go on? Sam has quite a history of mental issues and I worry that these trials will prey on that weakness. Either way it sounds like he’s going to need to lean on Dean. And Dean has promised to carry his little brother through this. Let’s just hope that isn’t too literal.
I never thought I’d say this but I was happy to see Meg again. You know it’s a twisted world when I see her as an ally. Not that I trusted her completely but I’ll take friends for the Winchesters wherever I can find them. I was so happy that she and Cass had a chance to sort out their tension a bit.
Cass: “If you’re referring to the pizza man, then yes, I remember the pizza man and it’s a good memory.â€
I should have realized that this conversation meant Meg’s imminent death. But I really didn’t see it coming. (We all agree that she is dead, right?) To think that Meg died protecting Sam, Dean and Cass just blows my mind. What a change from the Meg we knew before! She even gave Sam a chance to talk about his desire for a normal life with the woman he loves. Not only did Meg sympathize, but she actually seemed to relate to his desire to be with his “unicornâ€. And crazier still, she even referred to Cass as her own “unicornâ€. I wonder how Cass will take the news of Meg’s death. What do you guys think? Were you sad to see Meg die? Do you still hate her guts?
I feel like I could go on and on about this episode but that would be no fun for you. Needless to say, I loved every second of it. I was completely engaged and entertained. What did you guys think? Any predictions about upcoming episodes? (Let’s keep things spoiler-lite or at least warn everyone!) There are so many possibilities for the rest of the season and I am excited to see how things turn out!
Voluptuous Asian Lovelies. This had me laughing.
Cass: “I’m hoping the strange-haired demon in the kitchen is more knowledgeable than the others I’ve interrogated.â€
Cass: “You know, I can hear you both. I am a celestial being.â€
Meg: “Hi I’m Meg, I’m a demon.â€
Sam: “Wait, did you say ‘angel tablet’?â€
Meg: “You know, I get why Crowley calls you ‘moose’ now.â€
Am I the only one who forgot Sam and Dean didn’t know about the angel tablet?
Cass: “These wounds have festered.â€
Meg: “You really do know how to make a woman’s nethers quiver.â€
Cass: “I do know how to do that. Only it doesn’t usually involve cleaning wounds.â€
I thought it was funny how offended Meg was that Sam and Dean didn’t even look for her.
Meg: “Deep down in parts you never let see the light of day, you want to live a long life away from creepy things like me.â€
I cringed watching Cas beat Dean. It was very gruesome. Not needlessly so, but it was hard to watch.
When Dean dropped the tablet, did half of it break? Or was that the rock surrounding the tablet?
Crowley: “Castiel. So that’s who’s been poking my boys, and not in a sexy way.â€
Cass: “I just know that I have to protect this tablet now.â€
Dean: “From Naomi?â€
Cass: “And from you.â€
Dean: “Listen man, I can’t take anymore lies from anyone.â€
I was happy that Sam apologized. I feel like these guys are in a good place right now and that makes me happy.
Dean: “I may not be able to carry the burden that comes along with these trials, but I can carry you.â€
Sam:â€You realize you kinda just quoted Lord of the Rings, right?â€
Comments
It was just the crispy candy coated shell to the tablet that cracked; afterwards the tablet appears to be in one piece.
Well, isn't it obvious? Dean means everything to Cas, no matter if you see it as a romance, family love, friendship... Dean is just the most important thing in Cas' life. Their relationship has had me mesmerized since the time Cas decided to rebel, and they keep surprising me, with everything that they go through, but still find a way backtogether.
But I like your theory, that maybe Dean really has something to do with the angel tablet, I think it would make for an interesting storyline, if Dean would end up being the one to close the gates of heaven, the same as Sam is closing the gates of hell now.
Really, if Cas isn't in love with Dean, and Dean isn't in love with Cas, nothing makes sense about this.
Is it possible that Naomi knew Crowley when they were both angels in Mesopotamia. He has since "fallen" and followed Lucifer's path to power-better to reign in hell than follow in heaven type stuff. She has stayed an angel but one who wants power of her own in heaven-I guess there is not a lot of powerful angels left in leadership roles in heaven, and now would be her time.
I think she wants Cass to kill Dean so he is totally under her demand and control and that would prove it.
I think Cass wanted to protect the tablet from Dean because he would be more open to closing the gates of hell-he still thinks most angels are "dicks". Even though he and Sam have friends and family there.
Sam's state seems to be mainly weakened a weakened physical state-his mental state seems still sharp. So, I'm not too concerned about his mental status. A whole new trial-he's been through trials of ethics and morality, trials of mental illness, now his trial is physical.
I loved the interchange between Meg and Cass. I stopped hating her from the last episode where she was helping the guys kill Dick Roman. I love her snarkiness - she says very truthful things with no emotion and it just makes them hilarious-as an example, stating that Sam and Dean did not look for her at all even after she took bullets for them and then goes on to say something like "my heroes", all in a straight edged voice with no emotion. Great.
And her teasing conversation with Cass-absolutely wonderful. I think Cass knows she has been killed by Crowley-he is an celestial being, after all. But I do not remember if the demon Meg is dead and not able to move on to another body because the angel blade killed her or will she be able to be reintroduced to the story in another body??. And who could do such a good job as Rachel Miner?.
Loved the interaction between Cass and Dean. Hated Cass beating the crap out of Dean but when Dean says "we need you, I need you" I just broke up. Thank goodness Dean got through to Cass.
Do you think Cass will try to find Metatron? With Kevin alive, there is no one else to decipher the stones-unless it has to be someone else for the angel stone?
Loved all the Raiders of the Lost Arc references. And also that the writers seem to be referencing more of the past episodes/advent ures/people than ever before-I love the continuity this adds to the story.
A total 10 in my book.
IMO Naomi wasn't interested in eliminating Dean. She stated that she wanted to "fix" Castiel. To Naomi, that meant getting Cas to obey whatever order he was given - just like he was when we first met him. Naomi is aware of the strength of the bond between Dean & Cas. She reasoned that if she could get Cas to betray that bond, then most likely he would obey any order. It's not about focusing on Dean over Sam. It's because Cas and Dean "share a more profound bond". So if Cas would kill Dean, Naomi would "own" his will.
The repetition of killing Dean look-alikes was to de-sensitize Cas. Doing the same thing one hundred times makes it almost automatic to do it the hundred and first time.
I thought the overwhelming power of love/family is what broke the connection between Naomi & Cas - much the same as it broke the connection between Lucifer & Sam in Swan Song.
As angels, the only thing both Naomi and Cas now share is the desire to keep the Heaven tablet a secret. If the knowledge on that tablet was "read" and known, then the chances that others will discover that knowledge and use it for their own nefarious purpose grows. That means keeping it a secret from Sam & Dean, too.
As for Meg? Remember what she said about how important it is to choose a goal that will determine all of your decisions and actions? Meg didn't give up her life for Sam or Dean or even Castiel. She died trying to fight, overcome and kill Crowley - which is the same goal she has clung to all along. The last thing she said was to gloat that Crowley had not been successful in claiming the Heaven tablet, as he wanted to do.
I may be wrong in these ideas. They are just my opinion, but they seem consistent with what we have learned so far.
It does make sense though, we know Cass likes Dean better than Sam. He's admitted it. So it would be a good way to test his allegiance to Naomi.
What really got me thinking the way I did was that there was no focus on Naomi's part on keeping Sam away from the tablet. I felt like job #1 for Cass was getting that angel tablet before the demons did and bringing it straight to Naomi. And Sam and Dean are a pretty big threat in that department. Dean was in no hurry to let Cass take the tablet upstairs and I know Sam would have felt the same way. Either of them could have been standing in the way of that tablet getting to heaven yet Naomi only focused on eliminating Dean.
I still like my theory but now I definitely see where everyone else is coming from! It's funny that I saw everything so differently.
(she didn't account for the fact that.... well, it was the man he loves & that was enough)
I too, wonder why Castiel feels he has to protect the Angel tablet from not only Naomi but Dean. OK Naomi I understand, but why Dean. What could he do? And would Dean, if given the chance, want to close the gates to heaven. What would be his reasoning, other than Angels are also Supernatural beings. Now I just talking to myself.
Love this season, and am going to go watch ep17 again, while I have the chance.
Why did Cass have to kill Dean? I was wondering that myself. If the angels want Dean dead, any of them could do it... so I agree with some of the comments above. It must've been more about de-sensitising Cass.
I've had a theory all along about angel manipulation - them telling Benny how to get Dean out of purgatory and the shadowy figure outside of Sam & Amelia's house. But, that was assuming the angels wanted Sam & Dean back together. Now, with Naomi wanting Dean dead... that theory seems to be blown apart.
I love how Jeremy Carver is successfully keeping us guessing!
I'm not sure how to warn about possible SPOILER, so hope this suffices.
What if it was the soon-to-be introduced new character who told Benny how to get Dean out of purgatory and also had someone watching Sam's house. Maybe this person wanted Sam & Dean back together?
This still doesn't explain why Naomi had Cass working with Sam and Dean initially though. But maybe she needed Dean (for unknown reasons) to get the angel tablet... and then, once that was done, he was disposable. I have to say, I have a lot of theories running around in my head, but the overriding one is confusion lol
But I'm loving all the possiblities!
It's just like at the end of season 6. Cas didn't have to break Sam's wall, all he had to do was teleport the boys and Bobby to Russia or heck Alaska and then start the ceremony while they were thousands of miles away.
In both cases the rational solution means the show lasts about 10 minutes tops. Season six finale, Cas transports Sam and Dean to Russia, opens the portal to Purgatory, kills Raphael and goes on a Purgatory souled frenzy while Sam and Dean try to get passports even though they are legally dead. This episode, they find the angel tablet, Dean takes it out of the angel protected box, Cas knocks Dean out and takes the tablet to Naomi. And then we watch Sam and Dean twiddle their fingers for a while, or snark at Meg. And really, if there are sigils all over a box to keep angels out, maybe we shouldn't open the box until there are no angels around, especially when the angel that is around is acting all hinky.
Narrative necessity means characters make really dumb choices. Forcing Cas to try and kill Dean was a dumb option because there were so many better ones.
Destroying Sam's wall put him out of commission for sure and turned Dean's attention and worry to him, his always number one concern. But even that, in the end, didn't stop either.
And in this episode, we don't know why Naomi was satisfied that Cas was protecting the tablet from Dean, although Cas didn't take it to her as she demanded. He didn't give it to Dean, and that seemed to be enough for now for Naomi.
I believe that Naomi was afraid Cas would do anything Dean asked him to do. Thus, knocking Dean down and taking the tablet to her wouldn't garantee that he, in a different situation under Dean's influence, would try to recover it. And even that Cas would actually take the tablet to Naomi. She wanted to certain that Dean wouldn't have it, that Cas would not give it to Dean because he was completely under her control, and the only way to be sure of both was to make Cas kill Dean.
Lol: the whole time Dean is standing there holding the tablet I'm just sitting there thinking "put the tablet back in the box, problem solved." Also if cas can't be trusted , then why, oh why would you just skip off to be alone with the guy leaving Sam in his physically weakened state to "protect " Meg. Weren't you just hollering at Sam about getting his butt kicked by a demon earlier?)
Well, I guess it's all part of the writer's agenda to make Dean look a lot lesss bright this season. Sam fans aren't the only ones questioning the character development this season and if it wasn't for the characters being stupid most dramas would last about 15 minutes.
Dean thought correctly that they didn’t know what to expect in Lucifer’s crypt. It might be too dangerous for weakened Sam. There were only two choices: either Sam goes or waits outside. Dean thought best, less dangerous (because they are never danger free) for Sam to wait outside (with the demon Meg, another one they didn’t know they could trust or not – bet is on!), although Sam didn’t like the thought of Dean going there ‘alone’, with a weird Cas.
He couldn’t prevent Cas from going with him, so he went with Cas. He certainly wasn’t going to wait for Cas to do everything alone. Another bet, another risk taken. I can’t see any dumb move.
Put the tablet into the box and everything is ok – really? I can’t see Cas thinking: oh, tablet is inside the box, nothing I can do, I’ll just go and leave it. There are tons of things Cas/Naomi could do to resolve the situation. And the only way Dean could prevent Cas from taking the tablet was to confront him and convince him not to. Can’t fist fight an angel.
lkeke35, it’s not only you, I read many post that pointed that out – put the tablet into the box. But I cannot see how this would solve the situation.
Sam wouldn't have let Cas do the sort of damage he did to Dean if he had been there, he would have given the tablet to him.
So really NOT putting the tablet back in the box was the best solution I would think.
Man, this is getting more complex by the minute! I didn't grasp it was that complicated when I watched the episode. Thank you all for the debate here. And kudos for the writers.
And another thought occured to me: maybe God's plan since the beggining was not for S&D to be pivotal to the destruction of the world, but to save it! From all the wrong things that occured in the world's creation. That would be lovely!
And maybe that's why Cas was ressurected 2 or three times.
I don't think your theory is blown. The angels are not omniscient and don't lnow the future. It's still possible that they could have set all kinds of plans in motion and just had no knowledge of the whereabouts of the angel tablet.
They probably never thought anyone else would find out about the tablet either. The capture of Samandriel may not have been part of their calculations. I still think that a certain amount of angel manipulation is going on vis a vis this storyline.
I'm even wondering if Naomi is an angel now... and how she is connected to Crowley. I think Crowley might be a demon of the same ilk as Abaddon... but that he went into hiding as a crossroads demon when the shit hit the fan back in the day. He has since been biding his time until all the major players are out of the picture. And, if that's the case, how does he know Naomi? Could she be another powerful demon? Or something else altogether?
The biggest question, for me, is why Cass has to keep the tablet from Dean but there was no mention of keeping it from Sam. Why is it only Dean that is linked to the angel tablet? I really think this is going to be about his destiny (after all, he was the righteous man broke the first seal). I think there might be a whole lot more inscribed on the tablet about Dean's destiny.
If this is true, then it was probably someone else that orchestrated getting Sam and Dean back together.
Either way, there is a certain symmetry if Sam is the one to close the gates of hell, while Dean is the pivotal player in closing the gates of heaven (if that is what the angel tablet describes).
It's kinda fun being confused, as it allows for much more speculation
We don't know about all the angels right now, only Naomi and what she is doing and we really don't know why she is doing what she is doing. So there could be other angels at work who wanted Dean out of Purgatory for their own reasons and who wanted Sam back in the game for their own reasons. Or Naomi might have thought things would go differently with Sam and Dean. Kevin had found the demon tablet and maybe Naomi wants the Gates of Hell closed and she knew Sam and Dean would be a big help there, but she never thought about the possibility of an angel tablet that could be used against her people.
Do you have a theory about what happened to Cass when he picked up the tablet? I know people are talking about him becoming a prophet or becoming human... but I wondered if he just became an Archangel. Is that even possible?
I'm wondering if Naomi was training Cass to kill Dean because he is still the vessel for Michael, and therefore might be a threat to her directly? The archangels are still the most powerful of the angels, even though their numbers have twindled to near nothing after coming into contact with the Winchersters!
I've already gushed about what I liked about the episode on Sweetondean's post, so I'll go for the technical aspect here. The director did such a great job. I loved the way the scenes between Naomi & Cass were cut together, that was way cool. Cass' training at the beginning reminded me a little of Neo's training in "The Matrix". The lighting was superd as always, Serge Ladouceur is such a genius.
I can't believe we are almost at the end!
Oh, one more thing. Dean calling Sam Doc Holliday was inspired. Doc was always coughing up blood, he died of consumption. Suffice it to say, I'm very worried about our "little" Sammy.
He said if Sam drank the demon blood in s5 he would be changed forever. Sam was never changed in any way.
Castiel fought against Souless Sam getting his soul back because it would be ripped to shreds. Sam came back with flying colors, beign affected in only a couple of episodes.
Castiel isn't to be trusted in regards to Sam. EVER. For whatever reason, Castiel is jealous of Sam. But he shouoldn't worry.....Cas is the one with the profound bond with Dean. SAm is just the toy Dean wants around mostly for sentimental reasons.
Honestly....does anyone on the show see Sam as a worthy apponant? As dangerous to their plans? He certainl;y isn't allowed to affect any storylines....e ven his own. Let alone have any affect or interaction with anything concerning Dean.
And what Meg said about Sam....its NOT new information. Not to us and not to Sam. Especially if we have been watching season 8.
Like Amiela Carver has put the least amount of effort into Sams charector that he could get away with.
I will admit that I am very afraid that "Sam is changing at a subatomic level" is this year's "Are you sure what you brought back was 100% Sam" and/or "If Sam continues to drink demon blood, he will change forever into something you will be compelled to hunt". In other words, round 1000 of "what is wrong with Sam" and why we must distrust his every word, thought and deed. Some people have said that they believe that seeing Sam's story with Amelia would be boring, Sam is going bad because of biology and Dean is going to have to kill him or save him is far, far more boring to me. It never ends well. We are constantly shown Sam doing "shady" things without ANY insight into his reasons and Dean continues to make perfect decisions while explaining every step of what he is doing so that we don't blame him for anything and while making new friends who support his every decision. And to me, that is boring, boring, boring.
For that matter, the real reason Meg had to die was Sam told her (off camera of course) what happened in the hidden year. OMG, kill her quick, before she lets any insights into Sam slip out.
I would not be surprised if Sam does not survive this season. He either has to "die" only to be resurrected in S9 (for sentimental reasons, why else?), OR he will continue to be "damaged" in which case he might as well just sit in the batcave while Dean and Cas have adventures.
I took the comment about Sam being damaged in ways even Cas couldn't heal comment to mean there were serious physiological side effects of taking on these trials, which are only just beginning to manifests themselves, and that it's a "no turning back" kind of thing so of course Cas can't heal Sam. Not as a slight against Sam.
Regarding the demon blood drinking, I would argue that Sam was changed forever as a result of that. Maybe not physically forever it certainly set up a domino effect that had lasting mental and emotional consequences for Sam. Similarly, I would say that while Sam was healed eventually in terms of the soul, it too had some ripple effects on his life.
Finally, Castiel is not a psychic. At the very least when he made the demon blood comments he was still very much a loyal servant of Heaven under the old ways where his bosses were pro-big battle between Sam and Dean as Lucifer and Michael. Who knows what information was of Cas' own gainful knowledge and what came from Monday's board meetings.
I don't think Castiel is jealous of Sam anymore than I think Dean considers Sam to be a mere toy he keeps for sentimental reasons. I would argue that Sam being the One to do the trials and bath in the blood of the hellhound also says he's affecting at least one storyline.
I want to be clear that I like both Sam and Castiel. It often feels like everyone is quick to judge the worthiness of a character or their storyline merits by comparison to another character, rather than in their own right.
Honestly, I don't see either Winchester brother as up to the task, by themselves. These trials are meant to be difficult. I think it will take TEAM Winchester to pull this off. IMO, TEAM Winchester also includes assorted others (Castiel, Kevin, Garth, Charlie, etc) that we've seen this season. It may be Dean and Sam at the end, but I think it will be both of them, not just Sam OR Dean at the gates of Hell. Sam may be the one who actually shuts the gate, but Dean will be the reason he gets there and succeeds. Neither would succeed without the other.
Still love this show.